Lawn Mower Engines

[BillN]

I am going to buy a lawn mower and need advice.  

Thanks

[builderboy]

Honda, expensive but worth it.

[BillN]

This is the one i am looking at:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=97712-270-11A-542Q711&lpage=none

[JRR]

I have had several Honda small engines (I'm a slow learner!) ... mowers, pressure washers, etc ...  

I never intend to buy another!

[glenn-k]

Actually it's not that simple.  I can't vote in the above poll as I know better.  From my mechanic background I guess.

Consumer grade engines are made for people who want something new but don't know much about engines and buy the cheapest one they can find.  We're probably all guilty of that, but I have to admit, at least I know better. :-/  These engines will wear out relatively soon no matter who makes them.

There are different grades of both engines unless Honda has quit, making any with aluminum cylinders.

I was very disappointed in the old Honda generators with aluminum cylinders.  They wore out quite soon.  We used them commercially but apparently they were only made for occasional use.  Not 8 hours per day.

A Briggs and Stratton I/C (Industrial/Commercial) is a good engine with a cast iron cylinder.  Most of the ones that give a company a bad name or people are dissatisfied with are the cheap ones that have aluminum cylinders and are only made to give a rather short service life then be replaced

I would even look for a cast iron cylinder in a Honda if I wanted longevity.  The cast iron cylinder is more the key to longer life and reliability, rather than the brand name.  Nearly all have electronic ignition now so are pretty dependable in that manner.

Reference - Honda Cast Iron

Briggs and Stratton explains the differences in their line.

*

     PowerBuilt - Entry level engines, aluminum cylinder bore, paper air filter and splash lube oil system.
   *

     Intek, Intek I/C & Intek Edge - Mid line engines, with cast iron cylinder sleeve, dual element air filter and upper DU main bearing.
   *

     Intek Pro - Oil Guard shutdown on horizontal engines. All use an upper DU main bearing, cast iron cylinder sleeve and dual element air filter.
   *

     ELS - Extended Life Series - Cast iron cylinder sleeve, with full pressure lube and filter, dual element air filter and upper DU bearing. This engine is designed with vertical crankshaft only, for the riding mower industry. The ELS is used in both the larger single and V-twin engines.

From here - for more info  http://www.perr.com/intek.html

http://www.perr.com/vanguard.html

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/

I can almost say without worry that any brand aluminum cylinder economy model built to run but be cheap will disappoint you.  I can also say that most quality brands with cast iron cylinders built for heavy use will make you happy.  
[highlight]
An aluminum cylinder Honda will disappoint you as much as an aluminum cylinder Briggs and Stratton.[/highlight]

Additional features like low oil shut down will make you even happier and if you are lax in checking oil levels and maintenance, they will save your engine.  Don't ask me how I know. :-?

Honda explains differences in models of similar machines -Definition by me-GK commercial (expensive-works hard - last long) consumer (cheaper -wears out sooner)

According to Honda Engines' Dave Haack, national engine sales manager, and Rick Wendt, national accounts sales administrator, the new engine is targeted at a pair of lawn & garden market segments; premium residential riding tractors as well as commercial turf care, including golf course maintenance.

The two versions differ primarily in engine features. The commercial turf version, as mentioned, has a cast iron cylinder, while the residential tractor engine has an aluminum cylinder. One of the most interesting features of the new engine is the full pressure lubrication system on the GX530, which will also include a spin-on oil filter.

[BillN]

How does one tell if an lawn mower engine has an  aluminum cylinder or not? Is it written somewhere?

[glenn-k]

Most will brag about the cast iron cylinder.  Most low end consumer models will not say anything about the aluminum cylinder unless you dig into the specifications.  Briggs usually will say I/C.

Mower or saw shops or good hardware stores -usually the ones with a repair shop will be able to advise you.  Big box stores may not have people who even have a clue as to the difference.  

Other than that read the specifications that come with it.

From the Lowes buying guide:

Engine Terms

You might notice these engine features:

   * Overhead Valve Design — provides a cooler, cleaner, more efficient engine offering longer valve life and improved fuel economy.

   * Dual-Clean™ Air Filter — doubles the protection for extended engine life.

   * Compact V-Twin Design — reduces vibration for smoother, balanced operation.

   * Cast-Iron Cylinder Sleeves — withstand wear and abuse while providing improved oil control.

   * Full Pressure Lube With Spin-On Oil Filter — creates maximal lubrication, increasing engine life.


Industrial/Commercial Engine (I/C)
I/C Engine.

The Briggs & Stratton I/C engine features the cast iron cylinder sleeve that withstands wear while providing better oil control and extending the life of the engine. The I/C engine also has a dual air cleaner system consisting of an automotive paper cartridge plus a foam pre-cleaner. This combination ensures maximum protection. Finally, the I/C is equipped with special heavy-duty long life valves.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=BuyGuide/SelectMower.html

[glenn-k]

Note that Cast Iron has pores in it allowing oil to stay in them for lubrication even after the bulk of it is scraped off of the cylinder by the piston rings.  This is what helps to increase the life of the engine and make it more durable than aluminum.

[BillN]

Is there a low price Briggs cast iron lawn mower at lowes, home depot or sears?

[glenn-k]

I don't seem to find that kind of info on the net and am too far from any of them to check.

[BillN]

I am assuming that you want a small engine with cast iron vs a big engine without?

[glenn-k]

Totally depends on your needs - engine horsepower will be matched to the needs of the machine and what you can do with it.  It's just that a 5hp cast iron sleeve engine will last 10 times longer than a 5 horspower aluminum cylinder engine.

What ever the size, quality will last longer and cost you more.  Hot that it cost them more to make it.  The deal is in how many future sales they get to make to you.  Cast iron is cheaper to make than aluminum.

Aluminum is light making it more desirable to work with but the sleeve takes care of that --but raises manufacturing cost a bit.

Profit is the driving force in what you get for how much money.

[JRR]

Good info, Glenn.

My problem with the small Honda engines I've had is ... they last too long!  They accomplish  that by rarely running.  If I had to choose a one word description, it would be ... "finicky".

My daughter has the last of "my" ( I gave it new as gift) Honda lawn mowers.  4 years old ... looks like new.  When it's grass cutting time, my SIL first tries the Honda ... if it doesn't want to run, he turns to the much older (and much heavier) Craftsman ... and it cranks and runs on the first effort.

[glenn kangiser]

Another thing to keep in mind is that engines full of old gas will not start and run good many times after long periods of storage.  The volatiles  evaporate in a short time and even worse if they are left too long is all the junk that gets left in the tank -- old gas - varnish etc. plug the tiny jets and prevent them from running.  New gas formulations eat old rubber seals causing a no run or bad run condition.

My buddy Al who is an engine genius mentioned that the best thing to do is run the engine out of gas before storage for an extended period of time.

[MountainDon]

I have a "no-name" store branded mower bought about 1976. Cast Iron engine. The first 9 years worth lawns were typical for northern areas where ample rainfall usually meant little need to water; grass covered the front and back yards. Then for 20 years grass in NM shrunk from a high of 11-1200 sq ft down to 400 sq ft for the last 5 yrars we had grass. The mower never needed major work. It'll still start on two pulls max most of the time. I've not used it in 2 years, since we got rid of the last real grass. I tried giving it away but had no takers. Now maybe it'll be used to knock down weeds up in the mountains.

Also Glenn's absolutely bang on the money about NOT letting it sit with gas in the tank. Tha goes for any small engine. Run 'em dry when you're uncertain when it'll be next used.

[builderboy]

My experience with Honda engines has been all good. As Glenn mentioned, I'm very careful about not running old gas. That will stop any small engine causing carb service. My recent new snow blower manual (Tecumseh engine) suggests Stabil izing fuel for periods over 30 days. Apparently running them dry can allow seals to dry out. My previous post endorsing Honda reflects my overall opinion of the mower, not just the engine. It's the best I've had to date...but then maybe I'm comparing it to complete junk!!

[bnix]

That may be why my granddad said to store gas in a glass container not plastic or galvanized for less engine problems.

[TW]

 
I will alway stand on Briggs & Stratton or the newer tecumish , Ive noticed they will have a B&S logo stamped on them, My new mower and snow blower both do. As far as service it seems there are more local locations than for Honda etc. There does seem to be more and more huskavarna dealers around although i have not seen a push type from them yet .

[JRR]

There's a new radio advertisement that Briggs Stratton is running.  It centers around the Briggs' "easy-starting" characteristics ....

Could be other folks have found the Honda "finicky" and BS is trying to capitalize ...