Design/structural questions

itpdk9 · February 15, 2012, 08:23:00 PM

Hello all... A little background here. I am looking/negotiating to purchase this property. Currently there is an old trailer that the owners built an addition on to. See image.

Here is what I want to do. I want to pull the trailer out. Remove the roof frm the structure add pillars and frame where the trailer was. Then add basically the 1 1/2 story plans to the structure that is there. Meaning adding a 10 ft wall where the trailer was then add a loft with a 12/12 pitch roof on top of that. What are your guys thoughts on this?
If I tear down the whole thing and start from new I will have serious building code to deal with. If I keep part of what is there I am grandfathered. Obviously I will build it to code but it's the septic regs that would keep me from tearing down and starting from scratch. Thanks for your input I am very interested to see what you all think.

itpdk9 · February 15, 2012, 08:25:52 PM

I forgot to add it is currently 16 x 30 as it sits.

February 15, 2012, 08:37:05 PM

Quote from: itpdk9 on February 15, 2012, 08:23:00 PM

If I tear down the whole thing and start from new I will have serious building code to deal with. If I keep part of what is there I am grandfathered. Obviously I will build it to code but it's the septic regs that would keep me from tearing down and starting from scratch. Thanks for your input I am very interested to see what you all think.

The real issue is what it is like after you pull the trailer. Can the building even be saved? I would say you have serious building code to deal with no matter what.

itpdk9 · February 15, 2012, 08:40:57 PM

I understand it's a serious undertaking as long as some piece of the old structure is left I don't have to deal with the county and septic codes. So I figured basically if I pull it out take the roof off and use the platform from the old side (considering its salvageable) then connect to that with the proper foundation I and frame the rest I figured it could work

MountainDon · February 15, 2012, 08:43:14 PM

I understand the idea behind keeping the old to try and avoid some new regulation. My experience has been that frequently when there are codes there may be "catch 22's" built into the new regs that pop up as soon as the size of the structure is modified to any large extent. If the newly modified structure has the ability to sleep more people, the septic may need to be sized appropriately, and so on. At least in my county that is a factor no matter how long the building has been there; make a substantial chnage and all the new regs kick in. Be certain of what can be done without raising the ire of the inspectors and permit grantors.

There may be a dollar value, as a % of the value of the existing structure, that can trigger the requirement for compliance with new zoning or building regs. Just sayiong, be sure of what is allowed before diving in.

What does the present building sit on?

February 15, 2012, 08:49:54 PM

It is currently a two bedroom. And It would be a 1 bedroom with a loft when it's done. It is sitting on post/pier foundation now and has been since 1950. I no I really won't know till I get in there but I like the lot and it is right off the river. It needs a new roof right now so either way I have to redo that. Thanks for the replies so far.

itpdk9 · February 15, 2012, 08:51:37 PM

And I want the trailer out of it. So I figured if I have to do a new roof and frame where the trailer is now why not put the loft on too.

Squirl · February 16, 2012, 07:21:05 AM

I have spent a bit of time with the state code in PA for septic. They are based on # bedrooms and the only code still applicable even for building code exceptions under the "camp" waivers. As soon as you change the size of your structure and add rooms, you usually are required to have your system expanded or recertified. Whether the local code office enforces that, or your neighbors complain is a different story. Many of the most rural places of PA aren't big on enforcement, but if your local septic enforcement officer is a hard rear, it can be a real pain. You would also be surprised how many of your nice neighbors will be happy to turn you in behind your back, especially a if you are a new neighbor. This is a common complaint on other boards of people building or restoring "camps" in PA.
Light reading if you are interested.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter73/chap73toc.html

On the structure, what is the siding? It looks like tar paper.
Did they make the trailer load bearing. I don't know, but I am assuming that is not a great construction practice, which makes me a little suspect on the rest of the quality of the structure.

For the septic, are you saying that the trailer currently has two bedrooms and your are going to remove them, then add them back with the addition?

itpdk9 · February 16, 2012, 07:42:38 AM

The siding is a wood rough cut siding. I spoke with the building inspector who is part time one day a week. I asked him if I wanted to build a new seasonal camp and use the old septic would that work He said I could but would have to have it tested. I don't think that it is going to pass as it is a "backwoods 55 gallon" setup. The cost to test what I have thru the inspector is 500. The structure of the old place seems good from what I can see. The trailer is not part of it other than the roof is going over it. Which the roof is stand alone if the trailer was not there. I really don't want to have to put a new septic in as I know it will more than likely need to be a sand mound and those are very expensive. The owner told me that when any of the neighbors had septic issues the fixed them at night/out of sight out of mind. I am not really concerned With the septic now as it works and It will be used as a camp. Any new construction falls under the camp/seasonal affidavit so the boca code doesn't apply accept for sewage codes. I guess my concern is this I will remove the trailer when I get the place and it has to get a new roof so do you think that I could structurally add a loft to it. I will roll the dice with the permit guy as I don't think he will be an issue. He is never there.
Thanks again for all your input you guys are great.

February 16, 2012, 07:57:55 AM

Quote from: Squirl on February 16, 2012, 07:21:05 AM

For the septic, are you saying that the trailer currently has two bedrooms and your are going to remove them, then add them back with the addition?

Yes there are two bedrooms in the trailer that will be removed/ replaced.

Thanks squirl, you know how messed up pa is so I appreciate your insight. Any help links what ever you can proved is greatly appreciated

Oh btw it does look like tar paper siding but it actually a really nice rough cut you can see if you look down the left side. The picture was from a cell phone so it was blurry in the front for some reason.

Squirl · February 16, 2012, 09:19:33 AM

Quote from: itpdk9 on February 16, 2012, 07:42:38 AM
I guess my concern is this I will remove the trailer when I get the place and it has to get a new roof so do you think that I could structurally add a loft to it.

Maybe. So the roof depends on the trailer for support. This will require a wall or a post/girder section.
Post and pier foundations and houses are dependent on a girders/headers to carry and distribute the load. The terms girder and header are used interchangeably because they serve the same function, to distribute weight out to posts.

So by adding a loft you will be increasing the weight of the building.
You would have to be sure the current girders at the foundation can handle the extra weight. Even though this will probably be less weight than an full floor, when I design structures, I like to treat a loft as an extra story. Also the headers above the current windows will have to have been sized for this also. This is why the quality of the construction to begin with will be very important. Did they over build or under build?

I did a quick guide on the code charts for girder/header sizing.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10511.0

itpdk9 · February 16, 2012, 10:03:57 AM

Squirl the roof does not depend on the trailer. It is completely independent. I will add some more bracing when removing the trailer just to be safe. As far as how well built the current structure is I am not completely sure. It is tough to determine and I haven't really dug that deep yet. I am going up soon to look again at it and check out some of my other concerns. As far as the windows they will be replaced and new headers will be installed with any remodel tat I do. Whether it be pull te trailer and frame and replace the roof or go all out remodel. Again I appreciate your help.
Scott

itpdk9 · February 16, 2012, 10:07:30 AM

I should add in the picture, they added the siding to make it look built in. That is easily removed and there is about 3 ft from the top of the trailer to the roof. You can't see it from this angle. From the right side it is completely open and you can see the whole trailer. Unfortunately I don't have any other pictures at this time.

missfixit79 · February 16, 2012, 08:46:52 PM

I know this doesn't help you but I am impressed with the lanscaping that was done around this structure.

How is the house part attached to the trailer? Is there a door inside that just opens into the trailer and how is it sealed? Very curious about this.
Can you reuse or restore that trailer? Is it from the 50's?

February 16, 2012, 09:30:15 PM

Thanks missfixit... when you walk in the front door, to the right is a door that goes from there into the trailer. The opening is sealed between the two the best they could. Yes the trailer is from the 1950's not sure what kind it is but it is around 8 foot wide by 25-30 feet long. I am sure you could restore it if you wanted. There is currently no tires on the trailer, there are however axles but not sure how good they are after all these years. I am not exactly sure how I am going to get it out yet. Prob won't know until I get in there and really take a look. I was thinking about taking that half of the roof off and all the siding that they used to box it in. Then I am thinking I could put some kind of boards down and try and drag it out as it still has the frame and hitch on it. Again this is all premature brainstorming as I really don't know. As a last resort, I guess I could cut it out, but I really don't want to do that as it is really old and really cool inside. Still has all the original fixtures. Thanks again for your interest and comments. The property and location is very nice which is why I like the place so much.

JRR · February 17, 2012, 10:16:03 AM

I wish I had your problem! That looks like a great lot and project. It has great potential.

It goes a long way with neighbors and inspectors if your efforts yield better looks ... more curbside appeal. I think with a little effort you can keep all happy.

missfixit79 · February 17, 2012, 12:15:51 PM

Here is my only advice, on what I would do in this situation.

I would post that trailer on Craigslist, and say "if you want this vintage 1950's trailer with original fixtures, help me get it out of here" -- I promise you 10 people will bring their trucks and people to come and get it.

I just had to demolish a 1930's house that was completely rotted... there were fuel oil tanks and propane tanks and all kinds of crap that I didn't know what to do with. It was going to cost lots of $$ to hire the demo guy to remove it. I posted it all on Craigslist and people came and took everything I needed to get rid of. One guy brought his farm equipment and lifted out the fuel oil tanks and everything. I just made sure to talk to them on the phone first, to make sure that I was dealing with an intelligent individual, and it was great.

Post it to the nearest big city and see what happens. Unless you are hoping to restore the trailer yourself.

Good luck!