My contractor finished roof and dormer; I have questions

[sharbin]

My contractor finished framing my roof and dormers. I have 10/12 pitch with 2x10 rafters and 2x12 ridge board. There are 2 dormers 4x4 on each side. I have couple of questions about things I noticed:

1- On almost all the raftes, there is a gap of about 1/4" on where the rafters join the ridge board. Note that they are attached by 4 nails with no joist hangers. Is this ok?

2- The ridge is 3 pieces. 2 of them are straight while the last one is couple of degrees off. Is this ok?

3- The rafter ties that tie the double rafters on each side of the roof where the dormers sit were not installed. He said that it is not needed. Is this structurally ok?

4- The way he framed the dormers is not conventional (well at least this is the first time I see it). As illustrated in the picture, the valey rafter is laid flat and joins the end of the dormer wall to the double header by laying it on top of the sheathing above the header. Is this ok?


Thanks a lot

[ScottA]

Sounds like a sloppy job. I'd call him on it. Get some pics.

[sharbin]

The thing with him is that everytime I point to something he comes back saying that it is the norm and that he has 15 years of experience. I guess what I am looking for is to know the gravity of the situation, like out 10 how much passing point do you give it, 5,6, etc.

Thanks

[ScottA]

He's right about sloppy being the norm. My response would be "Not on my house.".

[sharbin]

Here is the picture of the dormer. You can see how the sheathing is extended and on which the flat valey rafters are nailed to.


Here is a pictuer showing how the rafters are installed to the ridge board:

Another one with the whole roof:

[sharbin]

Forgot to show how the rafters are triangulated via ceiling joists at every 4 feet.

[JRR]

I would be disappointed, but your contractor probably thinks he did "just great".  There aren't many PEG688's around.  Most of them are just "contractors" ... and they mostly do it "their way" unless we (or inspectors) force them to do otherwise.  Shamefully, his craft probably meets (or exceeds) what is typical today in the housing industry.

You can argue with this guy (how's your blood pressure?) and maybe get something added or changed.  Or you can just make sure he understands he never gets any more of your work... and you can promise to show off your photos to everyone interested around town.  You can add those missing short-rafters yourself and add some Simpson brackets (screwed in place) across those gaps and you will have a very secure structure. 

Then you can add some "after" photos to your collection.

[bayview]

   This is typical . . . It is unfortunate that speed surpasses quality.

   Years ago, I was watching a crew brick a home.  Beautiful work. 

   Then the contractor showed up.  " I pay you to put in brick, not to make it look pretty.  Hurry Up!"

   I have experienced the same attitude with volunteer work on my project.  I finally told them I appreciate their help, but, I prefer to work alone at my own speed. 

[Jens]

definitely a sloppy job, however, there are some things that I wouldn't personally worry about. 

1.If you plan on installing a ridge vent, then the sheathing will need about 1" open space to either side of the ridge.  If not, just plain sloppy.

2.plumb cuts on the rafters are definitely sloppy work, but as previously stated, it is about the norm these days.  I wouldn't like it, or let any of my guys get away with it, but many out there are just in it for pay, not to build something nice.

On the other hand, if you plan to have the ceiling vaulted in the dormers, the framing is not correct.  It should have a true valley rafter, and not a California overframe.  It looks like your contractor may have never installed a dormer in living space.  This is the type of framing that I would expect to see on an attic dormer, when no living space is involved.  If you plan a flat ceiling in the dormers, than this shouldn't be a problem. 

I would have a talk with your contractor, and tell him that you don't care how many years of experience he has, he still doesn't know how to build!  Ok, maybe you shouldn't be that blunt, I would, but I am a bit of a jerk sometimes.  It is this kind of work that gives us all a bad name in the contracting world, and perpetuates the cycle of low quality, and poor wages that have become the norm.  True carpenters are very skilled individuals, on par, IMO, with any other professional.  Unfortunately, this isn't the way most people see the situation. 

In short, it is up to you.  If you have time, and don't mind an argument or six, I would hold back pay until the job is done correctly.  Enough to where he wants to finish the job, but not enough to make it so that he can't afford to finish (payroll, insurence, etc.)

Good luck.

[sharbin]

Thank you  guys for the feedback. I have been arguing with this guy for the past 3 weeks, basically day in day out about things from pushing him to work on good weather days and to install the roof membrane to extra money he wants to charge me for the snow he shovels. In all cases, I just wanted to get done with him, so I paid him the money so that to get the peace of mind.

From couple of suggestions and articles I've read, I think I will put framing clips to attach the rafters to the ridge board. What do you think?

As for the dormer, if this is a structurally acceptable way of doing the dormer then I can live with it.

Thanks

[apaknad]

if it were up to me, i would def/add the clips. but i like to overbuild. in this case i just think it's relatively cheap insurance. keep on!

[ScottA]

Yep typical sloppy job. I wouldn't mess with the clips. All the weight will be pushing towards the center anyway. What kind of cieling goes in the dormer?

[sharbin]

I will try to have vaulted ceiling as much as possible. The finish material for ceilings, including dormers, as well as walls will be pine panels.

Yep typical sloppy job. I wouldn't mess with the clips. All the weight will be pushing towards the center anyway. What kind of cieling goes in the dormer?

[Jens]

Extra pay for shoveling snow!!!!!  HAHAHAHAHAHA!  What a wuss.  Thats part of the job, and if you don't like it, ride a desk!  What a dork! 

Ditto on no worries with framing clips.  You won't be able to vault the dormer ceiling very nicely like that, but if you want to fix it, you can.  Run a temporary ceiling joist between the last two rafters on the wall.  Cut out the overframed assembly (Where the 2x lays flat, and the rafters on it).  Cut the header out of the roof framing with a sawzall.  Trim the rafters back to where the ridge meets up with the main roof (maybe a bit further), so that you can put that doubled header back in.  Run true valley rafters from the intersection of the ridge and header, to the ends of the walls where they meet the doubled common rafters.  Now fill in the spaces with real jack rafters (going from the ridge to the valleys).  Might even be able to do it all from the inside without removing the sheathing, but make sure to get up there and nail the sheets off all the way. 

Not the easiest fix (putting an extra 2x6 to fill in a to-big window opening, thats the easiest), but very doable.

[John Raabe]

If you have the rafters tied with a tension member or tie at every other rafter then the ridge is considered non-structural and the tops of the rafters are supporting each other through the ridge board. They should be tighter, but framing clips won't really add structure.

RE the dormer framing - flat valley rafters are standard in some areas and the actual loads that are being carried are relatively small. That dormer ridge board is very lightly loaded and supported by oversized rafters that place what load they do carry on to the double rafters of the main roof. See my notes on your diagram.

So, while the workmanship is sloppy, I do not see anything that is structurally dangerous (other than what I noted on the drawing). Perhaps a better more experienced framer sees longer term problems?