Why can't we fix healthcare?

[ScottA]

MMM...I miss fritz sticks. In Germany health coverage is mandatory at your job. They take a small cut from your pay. It's not all that much. Nothing like what insurance costs here. When you go to the doctor or dentist you pay a small co-pay of around $20. If you are unemployed the government covers you till you get another job. I think the German system is one of the best in the world in terms of what you get vs. what you pay. What our government is proposing is not even close to what Germany has. Having said all that, I'd still prefer a free market system without all the insurance companies and government meddeling. I suspect costs would be much, much lower. I have access to Indian health services now and always have. They are state run medicine and they suck big time though there has been some improvement since the tribe took over control from the feds.

[cabinfever]

Wow. No wonder we can't get anything passed. My take:

1) "They" (the politicians) are us. We live in a democracy by mutual consent. Sometimes your guy wins, sometimes he doesn't. The only way it all works is if you agree to abide by the rules whether you win or loose. There is nowhere you can go in the world today to live 'independently' - sad but true.
2) If you don't want to pay taxes, you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the benefits - you don't get medicare, you don't get to ride on public roads, you can't use public sewers or water, the military doesn't defend you, and neither do the courts. Society is, unfortunately, somewhat 'socialist' by definition.
3) It's easy to say "if I want it, I'll pay for it" when you're healthy and/or well off (as I am). If any of you here are terminally ill and poor, I'm happy to seriously consider your 'stay out of my pockets' argument. My father was a fierce libertarian until his wife was diagnosed with kidney cancer and he was diagnosed with non-Hodgekins lymphoma; now he's not so sure universal healthcare is a bad idea.

So I've sounded like a lefty to this point, but, most importantly:

4) The best way to lower healthcare is by making insurance illegal. You really want to emphasize personal responsibility and eliminate waste from the system? Make healthcare providers directly responsible to the consumers for every dime, and make consumers feel the pain of every penny. Insurance does nothing but transfer your money - through the glorious capitalist system - to the sickly, the CEO, and the system.

And I say this as someone making good money working for an insurance company. Your insurance premiums are raising prices and lining my pockets, and I still think it stinks.

[Pox Eclipse]

So I've sounded like a lefty to this point, but, most importantly:

4) The best way to lower healthcare is by making insurance illegal. You really want to emphasize personal responsibility and eliminate waste from the system? Make healthcare providers directly responsible to the consumers for every dime, and make consumers feel the pain of every penny. Insurance does nothing but transfer your money - through the glorious capitalist system - to the sickly, the CEO, and the system.

And I say this as someone making good money working for an insurance company. Your insurance premiums are raising prices and lining my pockets, and I still think it stinks.

And oddly enough, as a lefty-liberal, I agree with you.  I think health insurance is the worst scam we ever imposed on ourselves.  Like a casino, the only winner is the house.  The problem is, I can't think of any way to get off this mad merry-go-round without suffering irreparable damage.  Dependence on the current system is so ingrained in both provider and patient that going cold turkey would utterly shatter the system into a million pieces, and hundreds of thousands would die in the short term before it put itself right again.