Superior Walls, ICF, and Poured Walls

[ellbaker]

Someone asked for more detail on my quotes.  I also added the ICF quote.

The standard basement in my area, North Alabama, is constructed of cement block walls.  My 2 neighbors have $600K+ homes with 12' block walls on their walkout basement.  One is experiencing lots of water problems and the other is dry as a bone (planned up front with a great drainage system and excellent waterproofing before backfill).  Solid concrete walls are rare but are slowly gaining in popularity.

3 estimates for a 20x34 basement.

Superior Walls - three 9'. XI walls (frame daylight wall, extra cost 34 ft of footing for daylight wall) - $9506
4 walls (no additional footing cost required) - $13,051

Poured walls - Three 10' walls
Footing (continuous for all 4 walls) - $2964 (1924 Labor, 1040 Materials)
Walls - $7742 (3982 Labor, 3760 Materials)
Waterproofing - $1765
Total - $12,471

ICF (Build Blocks) Turn Key (Footing not included)
Three 10' walls - $8950
Four 10' walls - $12,420

ICF (Build Blocks) DIY with technical support at $100/hour and bracing rental (~$50/day)
Three walls  $2405 + tax + shipping (~$400)
Four walls $3510 +tax + shipping (~$400)

Slab quote from wall contractor - $3294 (1994 Labor, 1300 Materials)


I believe my footing quote is on the high side.  This company must travel ~75 miles to the job site.  I can probably find a local guy for less.  If you use that quote with the ICF walls, 3 walls is $12K and walls is $15.5k.  Pros are much better R-factor and tornado shelter in the basement.  Cons - cost, additional cost for waterproofing.

Superior Walls. Pros - least expensive but 1' foot less height (can also get 10' walls for additional cost), one day for install, no waterproofing required
Cons - less R-factor than ICFs, gravel footings (may not be a con)

Poured walls. Pros - None??
Cons - cost, additional framing required for interior walls on concrete walls

Now I have to consider the DIY route on ICFs.  Distributor (who also does the turnkey install) says that his clients that follow directions have few if any problems.  Assuming that the materials are similar in cost to the 3 poured walls then the total would be $7k + footing cost.  Contractor estimated 3-5 days so it would probably take me a 2-4 weeks to stack the walls.

I am also getting a quote for vertical ICFs from TFSystems.  The installation time is a day for a 3 man green crew (demonstrated by a DIY job on the internet).  

I would prefer the ICFs if the cost is somewhat equivalent.  Decisions, decisions

[MushCreek]

I got a quote from a builder who specializes in ICF. The cost for my 1300 sq ft shell came to $95K- too rich for my blood. But- he's willing to do any phase of the build, with me doing the rest. He even admitted that I will save on materials if I get them myself. I might have him do the pour on my ICF, since that's the only scary part, at least for me. I really like the TF system, but I've been trying to get a quote from the SC distributor for a few months now (?) It requires a lot less bracing, and looks well-suited to DIY. Just wish I could get them interested in doing business.....

I don't care for block at all, although I've heard that surface bonded block is pretty good. Decisions, indeed.......

[Don_P]

I'm guessing that a grouted block wall is probably going to be stronger than an ICF or surface bonded wall but haven't seen numbers... would like to see some if anyone has any info. I've wondered if we had honeycombs in ICF before. Did have one blow out, our error, lost ~1/4 yard and a little time (pumpers clock running) but nothing major. I had a backhoe slap one and we never knew the extent of the damage, you can't see the concrete. Nesting ants always worry me in exterior foam but I've not seen it in one. They moved into the foam in my camper and it was a mess getting them evicted. Superior is light on engineering but for a simple uniform loading I think they are fine. They concern me more on serious concentrated loads. We've added insulation in the bays to bump the R value in above ground areas. Their frost wall is just a deep trench full of compacted gravel, cheaper than a poured frost wall. The exterior is basically finished, the interior is already furred out. Plumbing along the wall cannot drop through their "sill". If I do another I'll slope the excavation to daylight a bit and level the gravel bed. Poured we've had good and bad. One was kind of interesting, 4" exterior with brick faced forms, 2" foam in the center and 4" interior pour all cross linked by steel. That was over 15 years ago, never seen it done again. Just more grist for the mill.

[Canvasman]

I'm building now, this home is 24*36 the full walls 9foot high, 4foot frost walls, 8inch thick except front wall 12" with brick ledge. Walls, 2" foam on the walls, 4" slab, contractor travelled 50 miles one way, $11,000 for the whole job. This is northern Wisconsin.

He would of used ICF if I wanted, for only cost of ICF, however he claims you get honeycomb because of all the ties. I should add, the price also included 9 sonotubes for deck posts.
Eric

[UK4X4]

Thats some good information thank's !

[ellbaker]

I met a guy via the Internet that did a DIY concrete house with ICFs about 2 hours from me.  He has poured over 200 yards of concrete. He even used Speed Floors for concrete floors on the second level. He used a vertical ICF from TF Systems. He had nothing but positive experience with them. He said all of his walls are plumb and square and never had a blow out. He offered to help and even free use of his ICF bracing system. The guy even bought a pump truck off of eBay. He ended up using a pro pumper but now does some simple side work with his pump truck. He knew pretty much nothing about concrete before he started and now seems to have a Phd. 

I got a quote from TF Systems for 4 walls worth of forms shipped for $4300. Only a about $400 more than Build Block but this seems to a simpler to use system. With the added help fo my new buddy, I am leaning towards using vertical ICFs, TF System, for my basement.