Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

[glenn kangiser]

Yup - no Bobcat is like having a broken leg......

So many things to do with it.

I cut the divider out of the back of my horse trailer and made a small stock trailer today - welded the double doors together and made them hinge on one side as I had to get a bull for my lonely heifer.  She thinks she is ready for some fun....

A neighbor loaned me his Dexter bull - a rather large nice looking brown one.  The bull wanted to climb out the back of the trailer over the doors.  I never thought about that so threw a welding blanket over the light there then rushed him home to the coral.  He was more contented after he got out and got some hay.  

I turned on the electric fence for a bit to get him to think twice about messing with the fence.  He seemed to be doing well.  Tested the electricity 3 times that we saw.  The rest of the cows were down the hill but probably will be back by morning to meet him.  Then everybody can be happy.  If the bull works out OK I may trade some Bobcat work for him.  He is a spare destined for the butcher if I don't need him.

[glenn kangiser]

Got a couple pix of the loft over the pantry.  Moved the freezer to the front of the frame posts - it was behind in the pantry.  That will allow more pantry space and keep the heat from the freezer out of the pantry.  The bridge space where the freezer now is just had small shelves that were taken out when I put in the pantry loft stairs.



Here is  shot looking from the great room.




To the right are some new shelves I completed a few days back.

This is some of the non critical stuff I use screws in - the pine is pretty soft and gives as it shrinks so I seldom have problems with the screws.

Above you will note temporary guard rails and a permanent shelf from the loft to the upper bridge going to the master bedroom.

[glenn kangiser]

Rebuilt the sides of the Bobcat  grapple bucket and replaced the worn out digging teeth then gave it a good workout to try everything before I take it down the road to do real work.

I knocked one tooth off and ripped one tooth holder off.  It's running pretty strong now.  As a test I dug a small stock water pond to catch the rainwater runoff from the tree terraces and keep it on the hill for the cows.

Replaced the first tooth keeper and will re-weld the other tooth holder back on in the morning.  It is once again it's old beasty self, breaking things, tearing things up and ripping rocks and trees out of the ground.  Removed two small ones in the area where I put the pond.  Keeping it small for now - don't want to lose a cow. 

Not much room on the hillside for a big pond anyway.  I moved the topsoil up the a new hugelkultur garden bed using brush I got off of the last brushing job. 

[glenn kangiser]

The cows are enjoying the fast growing grass so feeding them will get cheap until about next June.

The two steers are enjoying the grass on the hill above the cabin




and the bull is starting to hang out with them more often now.






The heifer is just a few feet down the hill.

I also decided to increase the size of the rainwater catchment pond before the rain gets here.  When it does it will likely be a rather sloppy mess for a while.

I didn't get a lot done this weekend as we had another bunch of international students from University of Reno Nevada this week.  Countries represented were Iran, China, Japan, Bangladesh - likely missed a few.  We had Economists, Hospitality (hotel management), HVAC engineering, Mechanical Engineering-biofuel students.

Vernal Falls yesterday..

[glenn kangiser]

In repairing the Bobcat and testing it out I dug a small stock water pond.  Water simply runs off of our clay soil on the mountain side if we don't retain it and we are stuck watering all year.  Also in my opinion it is nice if the cows don't have to walk half a mile for water.  With so much rain available in the winter it only makes sense to put in some ponds.

Last week it was small so before the rain I decided to enlarge it before putting it to use.  I made most of the sides tapered in hopes the cows will have a relatively easy way out if they should slip in.



Last night we got the first rain in it and it was a success.  I have made a "V" above it to catch all runoff from about a 100 foot wide area as well as capturing the runoff from the two tree terraces above.  Looks like about 10 x 20' pond captured currently and about a foot deep in the bottom.  The bottom is pretty much solid broken natural rock so I should not lose a cow in there.... I hope.



I made a drain onto the natural ground behind the trees for when it fills.  All fill sides are higher than the drain and compacted well with the Bobcat tracks and a loaded bucket - around 15000 lbs.  Filled depth should be around 3 feet and maybe 25 feet diameter.  Soil is about 1/3 rocks so washing out has not been a problem in the past.  I made small ponds down by the spring a few years back.  

The base of the berm is about 20 feet across and the top is about 8 feet across.  I removed most grass and topsoil before putting the berm in place.  Slope is around 30% or so.

This is perched way up on the mountain near the cabin so the cows should appreciate having water nearby.

[ben2go]

Nice pund.To bad there isn't enough run off through out the year to keep the pund over flowing.If there was,you could run a micro hydro and clear out the solar.

[glenn kangiser]

Cool idea, Ben.

Even if there was enough for 6 months it could be good.  Winter storms cut down on available solar.  Summer times are dry for at least 5 months - no rain pretty much whatsoever during that time, but plenty of solar.

The miners around here only had enough water to work most of the mines during the winter and they gathered it with long ditches for miles along the mountain. The rest of the time they relied on the river.

I'll keep an eye on it with that thought in mind, but between storms we soon have little runoff.

There are some options to keep more of the water.  On Permies there is some info on Keyline methods that use ripping and ponds to retain nearly all of the water that hits the property.  I was hoping to get farther along on some of those methods this year but did not make it.  It is a goal of mine to use more of it and delay it's departure.

[glenn kangiser]

Note that a member on www.Permies.com posted a link to billboard tarps of sizes that would be able to be used on any underground house or lapped as necessary.  Reinforced with netting - most are 16 oz. per square yard but some are 9.  The 16 oz are 20 mil and I assume that the 9oz  are around 11 or 12 mil.  They are PVC and UV treated so last several years exposed but should last forever underground.  

I ordered 4 yesterday.  They have advertising one side - to be placed down - and all are checked for holes and guaranteed.  

Pond liners - hay covers - underground house covers - swimming pool?  a million uses I can think of - cost about .05 to .11 per square foot on most.  Shipping runs a bit less than the cost it seems on the smaller ones.  Truck freight I have not compared - that is UPS ground.



http://www.billboardtarps.com/collections/tarps

[glenn kangiser]

The pond filled with this snow and rainstorm.  I went to check it a bit ago and it was about 4 inches from flowing over the top and about 2 inches from flowing out the spillway at natural ground level at the right side behind the trees.  A bit too close for me so I went down and opened the spillway a little to lessen the chance of overflowing the top.

Hey... I only eyeballed the level.. no laser perfection here....

At the worst, if it was to break, there is about 1000 feet of our property down the hill so it would never make it off of it and the water would simply drain down the gulch.




Here is a shot showing the spillway at the right behind the trees.  It is about where the pond intercepts natural ground level.



At this point water is running into and out of the pond at about the rate of 3 gpm estimated.

[ben2go]

Note that a member on www.Permies.com posted a link to billboard tarps of sizes that would be able to be used on any underground house or lapped as necessary.  Reinforced with netting - most are 16 oz. per square yard but some are 9.  The 16 oz are 20 mil and I assume that the 9oz  are around 11 or 12 mil.  They are PVC and UV treated so last several years exposed but should last forever underground.  



I ordered 4 yesterday.  They have advertising one side - to be placed down - and all are checked for holes and guaranteed.  

Pond liners - hay covers - underground house covers - swimming pool?  a million uses I can think of - cost about .05 to .11 per square foot on most.  Shipping runs a bit less than the cost it seems on the smaller ones.  Truck freight I have not compared - that is UPS ground.



http://www.billboardtarps.com/collections/tarps

Are you considering these as a substitute to EPDM for water proofing?


On another note.What's going on with the other underground cabin project you were working on?


Good save on the pond.

[glenn kangiser]

Yes, these tarps are 20 mil reinforced PVC which is also sold for pond liner and roofing membranes.  They are not as stretchy as EPDM but are very heavy.  They are about 1/10th the cost of the EPDM.  EPDM would be a first choice but I don't have any worries about these tarps.  They are also the same type of material sold for shower pan liners.

Mikes original design was just 6 mil poly which a lot of my place is.  I have also used Costco blue tarps but these are about 5 times heavier than them.  About 3 1/2 times heavier than 6 mil though tougher and stretchier too.

The other underground cabin project should be going ahead soon.  Still at the reduced size the owner approved.  We put the water pump in the well there several weeks back and I am looking at other projects for the owner also.  It is a fill in job and other jobs take priority as well as breakdowns on the Bobcat.

I talked to the owner a couple days ago and should get up there to lay things out after the current storm passes and I return from working out of town.  I also have to install power and water lines to the pump.  We tested the pump and it is working as it should. Grundfos SQ Flex.  We tested it on 120v from the welder.  Solar panels are standing by in my shop - ready to go up there and go to work.

[Ernest T. Bass]

We just put a "sod" roof on our new little cordwood barn using a billboard tarp as the membrane. We sandwiched it in old carpet to protect it and covered it with hay bales for the winter. Hope it holds up well... Ours was a little worn and we had to patch some pin holes with gorilla tape...

[glenn kangiser]

Good info, Andrew.  Thanks.

The tarps are UV treated but if covered I don't see any deterioration happening.

I should have some to check out here in a week or so.  At the price I figured I needed to check them out anyway.

[Ernest T. Bass]

We actually got our tarp from a friend who builds log homes. He literally has like $20,000 worth of these billboards covering his logs and buildings in progress.

These sound like they're in pretty good condition, though. In hindsight perhaps we should have gotten one of 'em instead.

[glenn kangiser]

If you  got the visible holes patched, I don't think you  will have any problem.

The water will likely stay with the sod through capillary action rather than look for a small hole you may have missed. 

[Ernest T. Bass]

That's what I hope.. It is just a barn, too, so if an occasional heavy rain manages to make a little leak I doubt it will hurt anything.

[glenn kangiser]

The other half of they year you are frozen and hard water should not leak through it anyway I don't think....

[Ernest T. Bass]

Yep--that's where we are now! According to the forecast we could have up to 9'' of snow by tomorrow night. Spent the day preparing for it and siding the shed over our root cellar..

[John Raabe]

We have 3" of blowing powder at Whidbey Island, WA - an unusual storm for our coastal climate. COLD too!

[kenhill]

Raining and 30 -40 degrees in Alaska.  Roads highly dangerous

[glenn kangiser]

I was watching that swirl around you on the weather loop satellite pix, John.  Same one we got I think.

We had 3 inches yesterday - I cleared the road with the truck to make the snow melt off to be sure I could get off the hill if it froze -- working the Bay area today - Menlo Park - should finish by tomorrow.  

Got up and no more snow arrived so took the couple inches on the truck and went to work a bit after 4 AM.  4 hour drive to fit and repair beams in a office building for the steel company.  At least it's work.  

[glenn kangiser]

Hmmmm... things just didn't seem right at the underground complex for the last few days.  Nobody mooing for dad to feed them...... had to go to work Monday and Tuesday.... got back ... still no hungry bellies to feed... something jus' ain't right around here....


Got back from work .. got some rest and got up yesterday.  Three trips down to the spring on the bush hog - checked all of the gullies repeatedly.. only the bull.  He didn't hang out all the time with the rest of them so he was still there resting nicely in a nice grassy gulch without a care in the world.

I called the sheriff, animal control.. no reports of troublemakers in anybodies yard yet.  They would keep a watch out for them.... took a description ...gave me a couple numbers to call and entered their names on the TSA no fly list.....  

I suspected they would head to the neighbors 1000 or so acres to live a carefree browsing and eating life if possible but....hard to figure with the fences all looking good and not clue of how they could get out..... chupacabra??? .. no I don't think so... Alien abduction??.... hmmm maybe... this is a rather mysterious mountain but...... no, we are not in New Mexico, Toto....

OK must have missed something, so one more time around the fence and this time, it was time to get off my lazy bum and walk some of the hard remote parts one more time.  A thousand pound steer has to leave some kind of damage when he goes through a fence.

So last night in the late evening, I found a place where there was a fence post missing in the most remote, steepest part of the fence.  Protected by gigantic boulders and trees as well as being on about a 35 degree grade, there was a place where about a 3 foot rock was under the fence and the top wire was about a foot off of the ground.  Nice piles of fresh cow poo and hoof prints showed that the cows decided to take a bit of a vacation.  The wires were not broken but just too low.  The dogs and I headed back to the house to make a few phone calls.  It was very unlikely that the bull was going to head to that area by himself.  It took the others better than a month to find it.  I guess I need to check the time-line on that to be sure....

I called the land owner - he said, no problem - they were fine there with his cows and he could separate them in a couple weeks when he moved his cows out.  OK - that was fine - I could sleep knowing they were not in trouble.

This morning I got a hair brained idea.... [idea]

I drove down by the airport and sure enough all three of them were there just enjoying the heck out of eating the neighbors green grass.  What's this .. dad's truck... we're outa here...

They made a hasty retreat away from me and off toward our place... only about 2 miles to go to get home....

Went by the landowners place and asked if he would mind if I tried to get them to follow me home with hay and grain?  Whitlock has schooled me in the ways of luring cattle.  You don't chase them... you bait them.. make them think it is something they want to do... give them grain then lure them into the trap... hmmm .....sounds like the US government....

I have purposely fed all three grain with the big steer to get them addicted to it... just in case such an occasion would arise.   I would have to make a gate at the bottom of my fence below the spring for the easiest way to get the Bush Hog through then cross the neighbors entire pasture toward the airport, ford a couple streams, get around his pond and hopefully get them to follow me.  Rough steep country full of rocks, streams and gulches.   The neighbor said no problem as long as I could figure out a way to get across the creek near my end of his property... nice guy.  I gave him a business card in case I was unsuccessful and he needed to contact me at roundup time.

Meanwhile... back at the ranch...

The dogs were waiting for me and ready to go do anything we wanted to do.  I loaded the Bush Hog with fence materials, a half a bale of good alfalfa hay and most of a bag of grain.  First stop was to repair the fence - no more getting out there.  I had a hard time finding it again.  It was in a spot too low to get from the top and too high from the bottom access trails.  I grabbed a post and driver, fence pliers and wire clips.  About 20 minutes work and the fence was repaired.  Now off to the bottom to make the gate.

[glenn kangiser]

I drove punched angle steel fence  posts into the ground at an angle for braces and nailed them to the cedar fence posts before adding new staples and making the gate.  A wire loop at the bottom, a 2x4 lever latch wired to the top and I was ready to cut the wires - add a few extra staples and start on my cow wooing adventure.......

Winning hearts and minds...... with food.... I should run for President....

Cows are funny.  They are curious, ever hungry eating machines..... chomp... chomp.... chomp.... man that grass is yummy...

I had my three dogs and the neighbors dog on the Bush Hog.  Dolly - the neighbor dog is old and a bit stupid compared to my dogs... no prejudice... just facts.

As we neared the cows I ordered my dogs to stay in the Bush Hog and be quiet.  They mind pretty well.  When away from home if they depart the ride, a quick gruff word from me sends them scurrying right back to their places.  Dolly... now that is another subject...

A quick gruff word from me, she flops down on the grass, rolls over on her back and pees on herself...... [ouch]

I picked Dolly up off the ground (a big brown and black lab/shepherd mix) avoided getting the wet spot on me, and tied her into the Bush Hog. 

I only took off once when she was sitting outside of the vehicle..... I was gentle - no harm done.

I spotted the two Black and White Dexters right off but no Hereford in sight.  Oh well - start luring the cows with hay and maybe he will show up.  I found that separating the cows was not going to work so the entire herd would have to be lured toward my property to get mine to go there.

The dogs viciously guarded the hay and feed all day long lest some ravenous bovine sneak up and try to filch some of our bribing materials....

[glenn kangiser]

I spotted the Hereford up the hill after a few minutes and  headed up there to lure him closer.  Cows love the feed wagon so will not usually split too fast.  I would leave it running to keep their attention focused on the feed wagon rather than ....Hey.... Why'd it get quiet all of the sudden ... sumtin's up...

Once I got the big guy chummed with hay and grain we were off back toward the rest of them.

Stop.  A bit of feed.  Go 100 to 200 feet then stop again.  Too short a distance ... never get there --- too far and I would lose their attention.  This was where I decided to enlist the help of the herd.  Come on Bossy.... free hay... good alfalfa.. come on Bossy.... don't ask me why I call them bossy.. my uncle used to do it so I do too... you have to talk to them ...sounds crazy but it keeps their attention.

This was working pretty well.  The cows were starting to know that if they followed me, happy little cow treats awaited them...  nice fresh morsels of grain tastefully presented on a small alfalfa flake platter.  Yummy.. makes my mouth water just thinking about it....




Sometimes close - sometimes far, but generally interested in yummy food enough to be ready to move on an a few minutes.  Every so often I would have a wild hay flinging outburst tossing small handfuls of hay left and right to the other cows and calves following along - this would keep their short cowy attention span focused on what I was there for.  Back into the Bush Hog and move another couple hundred feet....





A couple hours of that and we arrive at the pond where everyone feels it is time to wet their whistle.  A few minutes at the whistle stop and it's time to get on the move again.  The pond marks the end of the relatively flat area then its over gulches, hills and boulders toward home.

[glenn kangiser]

A few more gulches and up some serious boulder, brush and tree strewn hills....we were getting close.  Maybe I would get my cowboy badge after all....







Just about 300 feet from our property now.  

The cows have found some lush green grass and have gotten a bit distracted.

I grab a flake of hay and start walking down hill toward them.  I get farther from the idling Bush Hog than ever before.

BAD MOVE....

I have now become not a part of the feed wagon, but an intruder... something to run from....

One cow gets spooked and bolts and its off the hill to the low country we go....  of course the cow herd rules say if one gets spooked, we all get spooked..... run, run for your life..... dang it... and we were so close...... but wait... this is the lushest greenest nicest place we have been in weeks... maybe we are not so scared after all... munch...munch.... chew...chew....chew...... yum.

Needless to say, it took a bit of coaxing to get their attention again.  Picking my way carefully down through the rocks so as not to tip the Hog over, we headed down the hill to start this part over.   Hay... move... grain.. move... same ol' routine.  Come on Bossy... time to try to interest the other cows again and I was about out of hay.

I decided just to high tail it up to the cabin and get enough more to finish it.  About ten minutes up the hill - then loaded a bit over half a bale - then back down again.  I assumed rightly that they would not take off from the nice green grass.

When I got back a few had come uphill a bit more in the direction I took off in.  Hoping for more cow treats, no doubt.

I had enough hay now to start a little feeding frenzy and it was starting to get a bit late, so herd interest was important.  I opened the gate - the bull was way up the hill and no problem.  He was not a grain lover and would have been a lot harder to get back in.

Hay...move ..grain... move.. my cows were moving ahead of the others a bit as I had hoped..... they'd give their left nut for grain... come to think of it.... none of them had one to give..... OK ... so they'd do anything for more grain....

Soon the Dexters were inside the fence on our property then a bit more grain and Beefsteak followed.  A smooth slow walk around them while they were eating the grain and hay, and the gate was shut behind them.  I threw a flake to the neighbor cows just for them being good cows and helping me get my cows back home.  No feeling tricked, no trying to get back out... hey dad... we just want food....






and Beefsteak ... mighty Beefsteak.... posed on top the edge of the small pond for all of us to admire....








The dogs... well.... after such a hard days work and being good all day, what was there that was really more important than getting a good nap...



So... a bit of a story about getting the cows to come home,

and a tip that Whitlock gave me... a bit of extra grain for the rest of the cows at feeding time was a cheap investment for ease of getting the wayward cows back to the homestead.