On to Plan B.....

[MushCreek]

We got a notion to hire a builder to put up the shell of a house for us, and then I would concentrate on finishing it. We just got a quote of $95K to build a basement and single story 1200 sq ft shell- no windows, doors, siding, or roofing. Considering that that would be nearly our entire budget, I guess it's time to head back to reality......

[jbos333]

Was the house to be framed with gold bars for that amount?

No, seriously, did that include any site work, driveway, septic, well? For comparison's sake I recently got a few quotes on a 24 x 40 poured walkout basement, septic, well, extension of existing driveway 350 ft. further including a lot of compacted fill to be able to get past one of my ponds to the build site, etc.

Excavation/backfill/drainage for basement $5000.00
Poured 8' basement w/40' walkout           $8500.00
Basement floor                                     $4000.00
Extension of drive 350' +/-                     $6900.00
Septic 3 bdrm. sand system                   $5600.00
Extension of electric service to site         $2500.00
Materials only to frame/sheath/roof        $10000.00
Well drilled w/pump, tank, etc.                $5000.00
Amish labor to frame/roof/wrap     approx  $5000.00

So, that's $52,500 before any siding, electrical,plumbing,doors,windows,interior finishes, etc.

It has really made me rethink my need for a basement, or my need to build on that particular site! I have a much "easier" site that would save me $10,000 in site work, and $8000.00 more if I opt for a slab/crawl/pier foundation. 

[h0rizon]

MushCreek,

I recently saw your post on the Piers/partial basement, as I have been following the foundation threads as of late.

In any case, what's the main reason you are looking to have a basement?  Is it just for extra storage?  If so, perhaps you can build a storage shed later on or before you begin the main house?

Have you looked at drystack blocks for your foundation?  It would at least save you some money over the poured concrete route. I'm considering this myself as A. I may want to sell the house later on and B.  I'm in NY and it gets very cold :-)

Also did the contractor do any cost breakouts for you - cost of the basement, cost of labor, materials, etc?  That does seem high for just a shell.  Did you speak with any other contractors to get a comparison?

[frazoo]

Dang, in my area that would get you a turnkey house for that square footage!  After seeing how long it seems to be taking me to get along with my build, I too thought about letting a framing crew get it done quickly (by my calculations at the rate I am going, I'll be 217 years old when mine is complete  ).  With that in mind, I started talking to some of my old contractor contacts and building supplies to glean names of good subcontractors (the key word here is GOOD).  If you want to go this route, make sure they are reputable, licensed and insured.  Put everything in writing and dot all eyes and cross all tees and don't pay them a damned penny until the work is done to your satisfaction within your contractual agreement.  Chances are the subcontractors would be the ones doing the work for the general contractor anyway, and if you don't need a general contractor and his expertise to coordinate all the various trades for a complete project he is a waste of money.  I'll probably get hammered for this, but what the heck, we all gots opinions.

frazoo 

[Jeff922]

Come on now, contractors NEED their $40,000 pick up trucks, and ya gotta pay a guy at least $30/hr just to show up on the job site sober.

[Chuck Adze]

Yeah...it really depends on what part of the country you are building in.
You are probably looking at about 15K or more for a basement of that size in most of Maine.
Depending on septic type and design 3K - 6K just for the labor.

[MushCreek]

Okay, in all fairness- This is for ICF walls, both basement and main floor. With a full basement, you're really looking at 2400 sq ft if you include the basement. It broke out at roughly $10K for site work, about $40K for the ICF work, and the rest was for floor deck, roof structure, and a few things I asked him NOT to quote; like internal framing and garage. Even if I take those items off, it's still out of reach.

It's too bad; I really like the guy, as he's up on all of the latest advances in building science, compared to a lot of goobers you meet. This is rural SC, which should be cheap, but I think my guy caters to a wealthier clientele. It's interesting that he's busy with new builds in this economy.

My problem now is that I don't know anyone else in the area to even get a quote from. I've seen this guy's work, and have heard good things from people who have used him, but he's the only name I have. I'm really afraid of hiring someone who makes a mess out of the whole project. My original plan was to have a foundation poured (or DIY ICF), and do everything else myself. The other problem (in picking a contractor) is that we live 600 miles away! So it's probably back to Plan A- take a year off, and build it myself. At least then I know it will be right!

I'd like to DIY ICF, and the materials would come in around $16K, but I'm worried about getting a skilled operator to fill the forms. ICF is still pretty rare in that neck of the woods. I might even go so far as to ask this builder what he would charge to come in and do the pour. Somebody's gotta dig the hole anyway; maybe he'll work with me on the ICF as well.

BTW- The reason for the basement is that it's a sloping lot, so a walk-out basement is a natural. A crawl space that tall is almost as expensive as a basement, without the added square footage. I thought about piers, which would certainly be cheaper, but then utilities are a hassle, insulation is a hassle, and keeping the wild life out is a hassle, again without the added square footage of a basement. I want all of the living space on one floor for our old age, so I'm not interested in the economy of a smaller foot-print, multi-story design.

[Don_P]

Superior Walls for the basement and stick frame above?

[MushCreek]

Funny you should mention that- The Superior rep lives right around the corner from my place. Maybe I need to talk to him again. That would certainly speed up the basement part. I've heard mixed reviews on them, but more good than bad.

[Don_P]

It won't work for your build but just to put the bug out there. A radiant slab on grade with Superior Walls as above grade walls with a truss roof would be cost effective, high efficiency and a quick build. Attic trusses up top can give a second floor.

[Chuck Adze]

I am still "pondering" FPS and also #'s on doing my ICF basement (small), and permanent wood (like the one I am in now).
I could rent forms, and a friend who was in concrete business said he would help me do it....but alot of work, and I am not a spring chicken anymore.

I like the idea of stacking the blocks, and some come with a ledger for laying stone or brick etc.
Of course you got the pump truck rental etc.

[Don_P]

We set a Superior Walls foundation Wednesday. It went smoothly, our excavator got high praise for his prep work. The site was tough, the crane made it up under his own power, the semi's had to be pulled in behind the dozer. It took about 4 hrs including the shuttles up and down the mountain. The worst pull was 3/16" out... looking good so far.

[MushCreek]

You have me intrigued thinking about Superior Walls. Can they do wall sections with rough-outs for windows and doors? What would I use for siding? (Please don't say 'stucco'.)

[Don_P]

Yes, this one has a garage door and a french door. The other one I've worked off of had 2 french and 6 windows bucked out. Their buck lumber is borate treated 2x.

We are bearing 14,000 pounds point load under one beam on the wall, I let them know during design and that was taken care of. I've got foam and wire reinforcing panels coming tomorrow. The plumber will do his roughs and we'll install radiant tubing prior to the floor pour. These were 9' panels and ran around $100/lineal foot of wall.

We're debating whether to do lick and stick rock, natural (the broom finish on the walls) or furr it out and apply siding (my least favorite choice). The previous one had brick ledges cast in and the mason stacked stone... beautiful but he was there for months.

You may get the install crew from around Asheville where you are. They set our previous one and did a fine job, it has about 5 years on it.

[MushCreek]

We're on to Plan B1a. I spoke to the contractor, and he said he's willing to do whatever portion of the build I want, and has no problem with me working with him. For instance, if I want to stack my own ICF, and pay him to pour it, that's fine by him. So I think we can work something out. He even disclosed that the materials are more expensive if he buys them, since he marks them up, so I can save money by buying my own materials. Did I mention I like this guy?

I'd like to do TF System ICF, which is the most user-friendly system I've seen. There is a top and bottom track, plastic (or metal) frames every 8", then the foam panels interlock with the frames to create a wall. There is no bracing required except for a bit on the corners, and I could re-use the materials elsewhere. The best thing is the that the vertical foam panels are cut to length, so there is almost no waste whatsoever. The only problem is trying to get the dealer to respond- at ALL. I wrote to them, and got a quick reply, so I sent drawings to get a quote, and a couple follow-up e-mails. Nothing. That's not making me feel good about buying their product. 

[DIYJandS]

Lol we feel your pain. Had a similar idea but a quote for 115k. Needless to say decided to do the work ourselves!