OK Computer Gurus, throw me a clue.....

[NM_Shooter]

I'm building a desktop box.  My last one is 8 years old and looks like the bride of Frankenstein with all the misc parts hanging off of the MB.

This is the guts of it that i am considering...

Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor
Thermaltake box and Thermaltake W0106RU 700W Power Supply
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q
Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Intel BOXDP45SG ATX Intel Motherboard
CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4870 100259L Video Card
These components will run me ~$800

So here's the dilemma... XP PRO, or 32b Vista?

My printer drivers don't work with XP Pro SP3 (long story).  I hear some scary stories from early adopters of Vista.

Windows 7 is a while off. 

I'm mostly surfing, web building, light video editing, photo editing, and some heavy lifting for the processor for electronics work (FPGA stuff). 

So?  Whatcha think about the OS?  XP Pro is not supported much longer.  Make the jump to Vista?

[glenn kangiser]

Vista has a reputation for being the worst program MS ever made.  I use an older version of Quickbooks and I read that it is incompatible w/Vista , so I'm staying w/XP.

I read also that Vista users were mad at MS because they were charging them for an XP downgrade to fix problems w/Vista so they could use their machines.

Sassy has Vista w/no major problems but can't do Quickbooks because we don't want to upgrade it.  The old one works fine.

Just my opinion.

Nice to see you back, Frank.

[muldoon]

Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

I would consider getting two hard drives and setting up a raid1 configuration.  As the size of the drives has increased over the years the quality has decreased.  While I remember getting years out of harddrives in the past my luck now just hasnt been so good.  In fact almost every drive I have had in the past 6-7 years has only lasted 2-3 years a piece.  Having a dual drive in a pairing might save you some grief. 

CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

I agree with getting alot of ram, and getting ram in matched pairs, and with getting a good quality brand.  All good choices. 

However, 4gig of ram doesn't make much sense to me.  Your talkign about a 32 bit operating system, which by definition can only address 32 bits of address space.  32 bits being roughly 2 gig of ram.  Windows XP does have support for up to 3gig with a oddball non-native paging system, (requing some obscure manual tweaking to make it happen) but even then - it wont see the 4 gigs.  I think you would be better off with 2 1gig sticks. 

So here's the dilemma... XP PRO, or 32b Vista?

I'm mostly surfing, web building, light video editing, photo editing, and some heavy lifting for the processor for electronics work (FPGA stuff). 

consider linux - I use kubuntu, a user friendly focused version of ubuntu.

XP pro support was extended last year, my bet is that it will be extended again.  Not many corporations are moving to vista so Microsoft is going to have their hand forced on it. 

[NM_Shooter]

Thanks Muldoon, I was unaware of the memory mapping for the 32 bit stuff.  I assumed that 2^32 = 4.29G, but did not realize that address space was shared with all peripherals ....PCI, SCSI, whatever.  Maybe I should downgrade the memory and buy another HD for RAID, since the HD is only $70 or so.  I don't think I am ready to jump to linux.  I may install a version on my old machine to play with though.

Thanks Glen... good to be back. 

I am pissed at HP for not having proper support for XP Pro SP3.  I bought this printer back in October timeframe and was assured by their tech support that the drivers would be out in two weeks.  I can't find them if they are, and the tech support has told me that my support time has expired.  Ba$tard$!!!

The drivers work fine on my i-mac, but no joy on XP Pro.  I was hoping that they would work on Vista OK.  I suspect I will stick with XP.

[MountainDon]

My understanding is that much of the bad raps on Vista come from driver problems back in the first year or so of Vistas' debut. I have not paid a lot of attention to the problems as I'm working XP here and have no immediate plans for a new computer. Go have a look at http://windowssecrets.com/   I find their information to be reliable. I subscribe; not sure if you can see all the reviews and newsletters without a subscription. However, it's a good conscience sort of thing so you can lowball your donation if so inclined.

So I'm not much help on what to opt for with the OS. 


As for a RAID, I have one on a desktop and it's good and not quite so good. Raid 1 will mirror everything to the  hidden exact copy drive. So if there's an error, it's duplicated immediately. If a virus or worm starts chewing things up, it does both drives. Now with that said I did have the main drive fail a year or so ago. It was a read problem on the C: drive. I was able to switch to the mirror and continue working. I swapped in a new drive later and rebuilt the mirror. Cool!

My practice on the desktop is to have the OS and all the program files on the C: and its mirror. I also use that drive for temp files and virtual memory. All data files (docs, images, etc.) are on another separate drive within the box; drive E:. Then I have 2 external hard drives for backing up the data drive; drives F: and G:. I also backup the data files from Thunderbird (email addresses and email messages) and the bookmarks, etc from Firefox to the data drive E: and then the externals as well. That was handy a couple weeks ago as I somehow managed to delete one folder of bookmarks from Firefox.

I use a program called SecondCopy for backing up drive E: to drives F: and G: I lie it because it saves the files and folders just as they are on the master drive (E:). It does not use a proprietary compression system that can not be read directly. It also saves copies of deleted files. That is user set as to number of copies kept, etc.

Then because I'm paranoid I have a set of archival gold CD's that I copy data files to every quarter. I'm going to start using DVD's when I get low on them.

FYI, my laptop backs up to the desktop E: drive every week, and those are also copied to the external drives.

[Windpower]

I bought a laptop with Vista

1.7 GHz Celeron

it came with 1 GB of RAM

It was so slow it was almost unusable

So I bought 2 GB total RAM (maximum for this lt)

it was still agonizingly slow

So I went to XP -- it took weeks and lots of study but I finally got all the drivers I needed (except the audio so I now have big clunky USB speakers I have to carry around with the laptop)

This is now one of the quickest laptops I have used (with the XP)

btw I have heard that MS will offer Xp instead of the MS 7 as an option ....
-- (they are already hedging about he new OS)

If you go with Vista get all the RAM you can cram in there, IMO


VISTA sucks

Many companies I go to still will not allow Vista machines on site (My company, Monsanto and Abbott for example)

[Windpower]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=3202


84 % of IT pros are not going to adopt MS7 any time soon

"72 percent indicated they are more concerned about upgrading to Windows 7 than staying with an outdated XP operating system; "

[peternap]

All in all, Vista only kinda sucks. There are some things you can do to speed it up. I have 2.5 gigs of ram on a 64 bit system and it is tolerable.

[Windpower]

Well that was my point

the 2 GB of RAM and VISTA on this laptop was 'tolerable'

but it is now a rocket with Xp --same hardware

I admit it, I am a speed junkie

[NM_Shooter]

Does the Windows XP 64 bit provide any benefit to "normal" operation, or is it only beneficial for programs that are specifically written to take advantage of the extended address space?

[MountainDon]

I don't know about benefits of 32 bit under 64 bit, BUT I do know that all of the hardware drivers must be 64-bit compatible.

Plus you can not run anything 16 bit, not that you are likely to need to.

[toddtar]

Try

http://www.ubuntu.com/

I put it on my wife's laptop and it works like a champ.  Takes a little getting use to, but no issues so far.  If you use wireless the set-up might be difficult.

Best of all it's free. 

[MountainDon]

Windows XP is officially an orphan. Two days ago — April 14 — Microsoft stopped supporting XP for free. The exception is certain security patches, which will continue to be released until April 8, 2014, according to a schedule posted on Microsoft's Help and Support site. Other than those patches, the only way to get any other type of XP fix now is by purchasing extended-support contracts, although they will also expire on April 8, 2014.

[MountainDon]

If you plan to migrate your XP system to Windows 7, you may be in for a bit of a shock. You'll have to do a clean install of Windows 7, because Microsoft won't offer a direct upgrade path from XP.

[glenn kangiser]

OK --- we know --- Vista really sucked the big one but Windows 7 is going to be really good ..... really.... believe me..... Signed, MS

Who needs MS?  Unofficial support is better anyway.

[NM_Shooter]

ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!

Ok... XP.  No, Vista.  Ummm...XP64?  No.. Linux for sure. 

OK... here goes... with the quad core and 4G DDR3 1033, I think I am going to make the jump and try Vista.  At least have an "upgrade" to MS7.   How much slower can it be than my 8 yr old box running XP?   

[MountainDon]

Our son runs Vista on his laptop, not sure what flavor. He's had no issues with it. It is a rather high end machine though, an Alienware super duper gamer with oodles of RAM. That's about all I know about it off hand, as well as it runs circles around the XP machine he had before.

If I was looking for a new computer to run Windows right now I think I'd select my hardware carefully and go Vista. XP is XPired.

[StinkerBell]

OK Computer Gurus, throw me a clue....

I'll give you two! Candlestick in the Library.

[Windpower]

Monsanto, Merck, Abbott, USDA and on and on

all will not support/allow Vista machines

virtually no instrument manufacurers are running vista (it is simply too slow to take data from some of our high end MS machines

I think MS is painting itself into a corner

[MountainDon]

As far as big corporations go, they are frequently behind on the latest computer operating systems. The three large corps I've worked for at various times were always a generation or two behind what was being sold preloaded on new machines to the general public and small businesses. That is partly because it costs a fortune to upgrade the software, not to mention the frequent problems with existing hardware and the need to upgrade that for the software to work.

So, personally I don't think you can draw any conclusion about what an individual should do from what big corps do with their computer systems.

[Windpower]

I disagree Don

here's why

I have been in this line of work for 3 decades

going way back to CPM (you remember CPM)

then  DOS then .....

Companies have always upgraded to the latest operating system that worked better than the previous one

this has been the pattern since the dark ages of PC's

Things have changed

VISTA sucks

companies are telling MS "we aren't buying your crap, it's buggy, it's slow, we don't have drivers for our equipment and it f***s up the network"

I have not seen this rejection of an operating system before at this level of major companies and IT professionals

[BobHHowell]

Ubuntu Linux.  Use VMware to install XP within Ubuntu.

Gives you the best of both worlds.  XP when you need it.  Linux for everything else.  If you still have your XP disks, then this solution costs you nothing and gives you everything.