Space for wood heat in Tiny House?

[Homesick_Gypsy]

I found these photos on Paris Attitude's rental web site (www.parisattitude.com) and would like your opinion as to whether a small wood stove could be safely installed at the corner where the kitchen and bath corner come together.  Hope you can figure that out in the photos.  Opinions?  Suggestions?

[Homesick_Gypsy]

Here's the other pictures -

[glenn-k]

Here is information with a diagram showing a minium clearance installation.  Still takes a bit of room.

[MountainDon]

Modern wood burning stoves can have rather small approved clearances as compared to non-listed older stoves. What you really need to do is find what stove is suitable for your application and then check the manufacturer's specs. That will give you the required clearances. Installing a wood stove safely is not as simple as pushing a bookcase into a corner and seeing how it fits.

You can reduce the required wall clearances with the use of air spaced shielding (metal, brick, ceramics, etc... anything non combustible). The usual method is to have a one inch airspace between the actual combustible wall and the non combustible shield. Clearance is measured from the combustible wall behind the shield to the heating apparatus.

However, you still need to keep combustible materials, and small child, pets, etc. away at least as far as the manufacturers recommended minimum clearances. That's sometimes difficult.

If you're designing a new space it is sometimes easier to meet the clearances by using a dedicated alcove for the wood heating apparatus, than to have it sitting out in the room proper. That's what I intend for my cabin to be built this spring/summer.

Lookup (google) Jotul 602 or Vermont Castings Aspen wood stoves.

[Amanda_931]

The smallest of the Jotuls are awfully cute.

The Marine stove people say that their stoves are suited for on-land spaces of 300 sf or less.  And speaking of cute....

http://www.marinestove.com/sproducthistory.htm

The "Little Cod" including a picture, with shielding installed.

http://www.marinestove.com/codinfo.htm

But maybe the wood-burner most suited for tiny spaces would be what Glenn has built--the rocket mass stove.

Heart House, one of the early examples of that, is under 200 sf, back in the days when they were still calling it a heated cob bench.

Here's a link to the book:

http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/rostforcobbu.html

look at 11/29 entries for the cob bench pictures here

http://home-n-stead.com/about/blog_files/category-3.html

and from a very interesting site--it's one of the top five things to do with an oil barrel when there's no oil--it includes a rather distorted picture of Ianto Evans in Heart House leaning on his--not what you'd want to do if you'd just fired it:

http://transitionculture.org/2006/03/10/top-five-things-to-do-with-oil-barrels-when-theres-no-more-oil-to-fill-them-4-build-a-rocket-stove/

[Amanda_931]

And from one of the comments in the last link above--a tiny "Snail House" in Spain, with both a cob bench and a Rumford Fireplace--about 2/3 of the way down on the link (although it may not be quite as shallow as it should be--they get their efficiency by sending heat out from the back wall--traditionally you don't even use andirons, just put up a teepee of wood to burn--the way the next to last picture in the fireplace section shows.).  They also may have put in a different kind of rocket stove--one to use for cooking--second link (more pictures in the Rocket Mass Heater book).

http://www.lesspress.com/twiki/bin/view/English/SnailCabin

http://www.fornyetenergi.dk/Naturalhouses/cobkitchen.jpg

I gather that Spain, even at 43 degrees N, has a really mild climate.

Today I'm quite chilly at 33 degrees N.

[Sassy]

Homesick Gypsy, what a pretty little apt - I ended up looking through a bunch of those that were advertised.

Amanda, I really like those little stoves but boy, are they expensive!

[John_C]

I have some experience with the very small wood burning stoves on boats.  I am sure there are some that could be mounted there but the fireboxes are so small that they need tending far more often than I would find desirable.   When burning wood the ones I dealt with needed stoking - feeding every 45 - 60 min.  Most of them had accessory grates so they could burn hard anthracite coal, which needed tending far less often.  There were also similar looking stoves that burned kerosene.  A gallon of kerosene would keep one going for a long time, 24 hours or so if I remember correctly.


If the budget would stand it I'd be inclined to use one of these (propane i NG).


http://www.woodstove.com/pages/gas_stove_mini.html

I think it would look good in that attractive apartment.

[Amanda_931]

Those little sweeties are right pricey too!

And cute.  And probably pretty nice in a room.

I've used a couple of small kerosene heaters (the rectangular kind can go closer to a wall--closing in on wall-mounted as far as temperature goes, IIRC), but I've never seen any that I would classify as cute.  

But a gallon of kerosine did indeed go a good long ways with them.  Wonderful the year I only had a motorcycle, so I'd only get a gallon at a time, and the nearest kerosene was over a mile away, and we had a lot of days when it didn't get up to freezing--no fun on a bike.

[John_C]

This one is a tad bigger than I remember but very similar

It's called a "Force Ten".  

And here is the deck mounted flue

[John_C]

Amanda said

I've used a couple of small kerosene heaters (the rectangular kind can go closer to a wall--closing in on wall-mounted as far as temperature goes, IIRC), but I've never seen any that I would classify as cute.  

I remember huddling close to one of these when doing early season deliveries in sub freezing conditions to/from CT.  MA.  &    NY.     At the time I thought it was very cute  

[Amanda_931]

 

The cats thought they were great, loved lounging in front of them.

But they never looked as though they came from Vermont Castings, let alone at Marine stove place.

[builderboy]

Well, some excellent though not cheap solutions to my wood stove space problem. Amazingly, I live less than an hour from Lunenburg Foundry in Nova Scotia who built the original marine stoves Amanda mentions and never knew about them. Thanks Amanda, my ad for a used original is in the local Bargain Hunter!

[Amanda_931]

You might be getting a used one for something resembling a bargain?  How nice!

[glenn-k]

May take a bit of room but I'm still partial to the near airtight antique wood burners.  We have a Round Oak - not quite as fancy as this one.  Firebox is about 18 inch in dia. and is fired with wood vertical so doesn't take any more room than a small rectangular stove.  Unlisted clearances would need to be followed.



Looking again, I guess this one is the same as ours except we don't have the extended top above the door.  Looks like a foot or so taller.

[MountainDon]

I have some experience with the very small wood burning stoves on boats.  I am sure there are some that could be mounted there but the fireboxes are so small that they need tending far more often than I would find desirable.

Good to hear from someone with experience on those marine stoves. I got to admit some are ever so cute. However, I had reservations about their firebox size.

For me even the Jotul 602 seems marginal on firebox size... though I've never talked to anyone who actually uses one I wonder if one could make it through a cold winters evening.

[MountainDon]

The top firing idea like in that old stove of yours is great Glenn. I really love the look of those oldies.

[glenn-k]

This was one of the first and most successful near airtights.  It has a damper on the ash cleanout, door and just under the exit to the chimney.  Very controllable, pretty efficient and doubles as an indoor barbecue with a barbecue basket and the door part way open, vents all closed.  Last nights steak was pretty yummy.

The overfire air is an important feature to make the fire burn from the top down - it also seems to roll the fire more in the firebox where the underfire air causes the fire to burn from the bottom up, pyrolyzing all of the wood above it causing more unburned fuel and creosote buildup.  I think the top air at the chimney exit may be to help cut the draft and allow the fre to burn more slowly in the stove firebox.  Don't know for sure on that one.

[Amanda_931]

The Petit Godin looks a bit like that (person who had one for sale may never have checked PMs, I might have been interested.)  But was that top on yours a later add-on--it looks like just plain sheet metal?

Jotul swears that the current 600 model is fine for something like 2500 square feet, with a burn time of "up to" 10 hours.

And it looks like they sell quite different products in other countries.  Some of the ones for Estonia had strange radiator jobs on the top--didn't they once have something tiny called the squirrel--that's why I was looking at pages with languages I didn't understand.

http://www.jotul.lv/content/products/ProductType____7097.aspx

Squirrel is any of several Morsos of various sizes.

[MountainDon]

IIRC, the Petit Godin was/is a coal/oil only stove and may now be available only as an oil burner, and may not be available in USA.   Canada, yes     http://www.drolet.ca/product.aspx?CategoId=3&Id=236

The Jotul 602 CB is the Jotul stove I was talking about; up to 800 sq. ft and up to a 5 hr. burn,  :-/ according to website http://www.jotul.us/content/products/ProductArticle____3105.aspx

I had forgotten about the Morso's. They have some nice stoves too.

One thing I like about the Vermont Castings Aspen, and forgot to mention before, is the optional fresh air air intake. It fits over the intake on the rear of the stove and allows you to easily connect to outside air. In view of the desire to eliminate or severely reduce whole house air infiltration I believe this to be an important consideration for a wood burner.

The Aspen air intake is located at the rear of the stove. The air flow is regulated via a wire lever and chain that connects to a simple flap over the intake. The mechanism incorporates a simple bi-metal thermostat. You set how much air flow you desire and the thermostat regulates as the stove gets hotter/colder. I used a Vermont Castings Vigilant with the same control for about six years back in Canada as our homes usual heat source (gas furnace for longer times away from the house). That thermostat device worked very well; I had 2 basic positions scribed on it... daytime/warmer and nightime/cooler... not to save wood as much as I sleep better in a cooler place.

That's my personal, undoubtedly biased, endorsement; other brands may offer a similar thermostat and/or have a fresh air intake option; I'm just not that familiar with everyone else. Your mileage may differ.

[builderboy]

I agree Don. I've used a VC Resolute for over 20 years. Love that air control. Also like the top feed - much easier than jamming logs in the front while battling back those glowing embers.

[MountainDon]

like the top feed -

Top Feed! Wonderful idea!    If you have never experienced a stove with a top feed you have never lived!   And they've designed the stove so well that there was never a problem with smoke into the room ever.  Once the chimney is warm.

It's too bad the Aspen doesn't have the top load    But it's just about perfect for my cabin to be built this summer.

[Amanda_931]

My recollection is that the Petit Godin was designed for coal--or oil, can be used with wood.  And it may be not as petit as the name seems to imply--more like what Glenn has.  But there is a grand.

There's a fair market for used ones in the US, or was a couple of years ago.

This guy's in Oakland CA, he has pictures and links:

http://ebiz.netopia.com/prontoimports/godinspotbellystoves/list.nhtml

[MountainDon]

It is a cool looking stove. I think if you burn wood in them you must be careful not to get too big a conflagration going. IIRC, burning all those high volatiles too quickly may produce too much heat for the unit. Just have to keep on top of it.

Being an older design it also requires the larger side/rear clearances.

In a small home/space it's really not the size of the actual stove so much that takes up space; it's the required space around the stove (more so with older unlisted designs) that becomes the space robber.

[Homesick_Gypsy]

Lots of good information.  I think the decor of the apartment is what was so attractive to me.  I keep going back to John's Builder's Cottage, for which I have the plans - as the best plan for me.   Add four feet to the Paris apartment, move the closet over and put the wood stove there, near the kitchen, like it is in the Builder's Cottage.  

Can a person in Texas obtain coal, and if so, how to store it, etc.?