32x14 Off-grid in Idaho

[midrover170]

Hi friends.

Thought I'd spread the word that I have a design/build website up. Please follow if you're interested in the project.
ouridahocabin.wordpress.com

There's a good shout out to to CountryPlans on there. I'll also be updating this forum as progress is made. Design drawings are all included on the page so you can get a feel for the project. I have roughly a two-year time frame. Next year I'll be doing foundation and floor, and 2016 will be framing and exterior finish. Lot's an hour from home, so it'll be mostly Friday thru Sunday build windows. Sure to have plenty of questions coming your way!

All the best,
Drew

[hpinson]

Informative, and some good writing. Thank you for sharing this.

I'd never heard of a 'Traditional' vs. 'Basic' building permit before, where 'Basic' has minimal or no inspection requirements. That seems innovative, and could make a lot of sense for light-use dwellings in sparsely populated areas.

Idaho does not seem to have caught up yet with some of the other western states in terms of grey water disposal.  Keep on that, and maybe dig into the regulations directly - would not be surprised if things are changing on that front.

[rick91351]

Great to see another project on here from Idaho. 

Have done a sort'a quick read on your blog.  Your country is a lot different than ours yet border each other.  Apparently Elmore County is a lot more aggressive on inspections and permitting.  Fact was we were required engineering and pretty precise mapping up here in the 'snow country'.  Now from what I understand that has been relaxed some.  I understand now much of that headache was propagated by our last building inspector.  The county now is a lot more willing to look case by case.  However we can not pull a permit for 'basic construction[ for a dwelling.  We can pull a permit for a AG building that is not inspected and if it falls over on its side.  It is your problem not ours.  That said it may not be used as an occupied dwelling.  Our big shop was an Ag building permit but because of the size and type.  They required engineered trusses and a couple inspections.  Again our old building inspector.           

Central District Health is of course State of Idaho.  Dealing with them for us is out of Mountain Home office and they have been good to work with.  Yet ours is an inside the box plan and simple cookie cutter septic tank with drain field we installed.  I understand they also are still permitting pit toilets and such.  Low useage can be pretty simple.  High useage needs a poured vault and a means to pump it out as needed.  Gray water from what I understand can still be handled in such a manor as you stated.  That said I understand they are getting more and more restricting each year.  Best to get your system 'grandfathered in' before they tell you well that is the way it used to be........  Now we do not do it that way. 

                     

[midrover170]

Hi Rick -

The difference in county requirements is definitely interesting. I was pretty shocked (maybe I shouldn't have been?) at the lack in Boise County. The "basic permit" affidavit makes a lot of sense though for a planning office with minimal capacity. I'm fortunate to have some architect and engineer friends. They're guiding a lot of the design and not letting me skirt best building practices - the cabin will meet or exceed most/all requirements, but If I can avoid those permit and/or stamp fees I will!

For greywater, I'm planning to get my permit before the year's over (just in case they decide to makes things tougher in 2015). I'll be installing a drain field like I outlined in the blog. With zero black/septic water, it should be OK.

Heard back from the engineer yesterday so I'll be updating the blog soon with some good news.

ouridahocabin.wordpress.com

Cheers,
Drew

[midrover170]

Hey guys -

Been awhile since getting on; not a lot to do with all the snow at the lot. I have a question on shed style roof framing. These roofs seem popular, look great, but there's not a lot of info out there. Most of what you find is for... sheds. Not really adequate for a home.

My question is this: How are exterior walls along the two sloped sides normally finished at the top to support rafters? I've seen examples where studs are notched to support outer rafter, others run a horizontal top plate from the low side and put supports from there. My structure will be 32' in length, with a 3.5/12 slope running this distance. Right now, I plan to install a double top plate that matches the roof pitch and tie into the low end and high side top plate. This means all my studs would have 3.5/12 cuts at the top to slide in. Running a horizontal top plate from the low side doesn't really work, as I'm planning two stories at the tall end (tall loft), but maybe I'm thinking about it wrong...

Is that typical? I can post some pictures if that's helpful. You can go to my blog (www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com) and go to "framing" for some help.

Thanks,
D

[rick91351]

I will PM you with some local ideas....

[Don_P]

I would angle the top of the upper wall, ripping top plate edges to angle if needed.  I'd block between rafters, if vented use one dimension smaller blocking material. The overhangs could be cut down, plumb at the wall line then parallel with the stick to make the fascia smaller, else a double layer of fascia would cover that width with stock dimensions. I'd probably eliminate the rafter over the wall and run lookouts from the first inboard rafter across and bearing on the wall then out to the fly rafter. Then use the rafter over the wall to make blocking over the wall that fits between lookouts. That makes a much stronger overhang in snow country than flatways lookouts. I'd platform frame the loft area.

[busted knuckles]

"angle the top of the upper wall"  Rather than have it flat with a birdsmouth cut in the rafter? I just want to be sure I understand what you are saying.
Like this? This is from this forum...

[midrover170]

Hi all -

Back online after winter. It's spring, the ground is dry, and I just got my building permits!

Scoping out a few details for the upcoming concrete pour. I'm doing 12" sonotubes, and looking at doing Simpson ABU66z's. I picked up 10" x 5/8" J anchors today. Do you think those will be sufficient, or should I have gone with 12"?

Much more to come over the next few weeks.

[midrover170]

Hi again -

Groundbreaking day gets closer and closer (hopefully within the next 3-4 weeks). I have a couple questions for you all:

• What's your thought on mixing concrete on-site? My lot is very remote, no water, no power. I'm building with pier/post, and need about 3.5 yards of concrete. I've been trying to line up an inspection/estimation from a concrete crew, but scheduling has been tricky (trying not to take too much time off work). I'm really leaning towards buying a mixer, using a water tank, and going at my own pace. Anyone have experience or a recommendation here?


• If I go with mixing on my own, I'm trying to figure out my water setup. What I'm thinking is a 50 gallon tank in the back of the pickup, attached to a Flojet 4525. This is a 12v pump, that I would later use for my cabin's water system. It's fancy, but I'm not wanting to get a pump just for this concrete project and then later buy the Flojet. Here's the problem: These pumps are made for wiring to a battery, like in an RV, cabin or boat. For this concrete project, I will have access to my truck that has the 12v cigarette outlet, and a nearby generator will also have a 12v hookup. Can I wire a cigarette-style 12v hookup to a pump like this and plug it into truck and/or generator?? Anyone with experience here? Flojet makes a 110v version, but it's harder to find and not what I'd want to use in the final build.

I feel like this is such a small thing, but these are the little things that come up when you start hitting the details. Thanks for any help. In the next couple of weeks you should start seeing some photos of the site/build.

Take care.

[MountainDon]

Looks like that pump draws 12 amps. I don't think you can do that through most cigar lighter sockets. Just clip it to the battery.  Most generators with 12 VDC state it is only for battery charging, not running an appliance. Not sure why they say that.

[hpinson]

Confirming running directly from the car battery - and not a fuse protected cig. lighter socket. I've run a DC pump pulling from 275 feet directly from the battery in our 4Runner. It is 600CCA I believe.  Not sure how long it would run for though.  It would be good to rig a switch and fuse if you do much of that.

[midrover170]

Thanks guys. I'll go with a wiring setup for the the car battery then. Like the idea of factoring in a switch and fuse.

My pressurized water needs shouldn't be much for the project - just for spraying down the mixer and hand tools. I can add water to the concrete mixer by hand.

[nailit69]

Hi again -

Groundbreaking day gets closer and closer (hopefully within the next 3-4 weeks). I have a couple questions for you all:

• What's your thought on mixing concrete on-site? My lot is very remote, no water, no power. I'm building with pier/post, and need about 3.5 yards of concrete. I've been trying to line up an inspection/estimation from a concrete crew, but scheduling has been tricky (trying not to take too much time off work). I'm really leaning towards buying a mixer, using a water tank, and going at my own pace. Anyone have experience or a recommendation here?

Having just mixed nearly 250 #80 bags by hand, 50 gallons of water won't be enough, plan on 100 gals. by the time you spill/splash/clean up/etc..  I would definitely buy/borrow a mixer too... that's a lot to mix in a wheelbarrow. 

• If I go with mixing on my own, I'm trying to figure out my water setup. What I'm thinking is a 50 gallon tank in the back of the pickup, attached to a Flojet 4525. This is a 12v pump, that I would later use for my cabin's water system. It's fancy, but I'm not wanting to get a pump just for this concrete project and then later buy the Flojet. Here's the problem: These pumps are made for wiring to a battery, like in an RV, cabin or boat. For this concrete project, I will have access to my truck that has the 12v cigarette outlet, and a nearby generator will also have a 12v hookup. Can I wire a cigarette-style 12v hookup to a pump like this and plug it into truck and/or generator?? Anyone with experience here? Flojet makes a 110v version, but it's harder to find and not what I'd want to use in the final build.

I did the 50 gal. barrel... not enough water.  I was able to get my hands on a 275 gal. tote tank with a 2" ball valve on the bottom and when you open the valve it'll fill a 5 gal. bucket before you can get it closed... no pump necessary.  One of the generators I use at work has a 12V cigar lighter as well as 2 connectors to wire in a 12V device... maybe look for that feature if you're considering buying a genny... might I suggest remote start as well... pretty nice not to have to go start/stop it everytime.

I feel like this is such a small thing, but these are the little things that come up when you start hitting the details. Thanks for any help. In the next couple of weeks you should start seeing some photos of the site/build.

Take care.

[midrover170]

Thanks for the feedback on concrete, folks. I ended up getting a 50 gallon farm tank for the project. I'll have to fill it up 2-3 times for all the mixing, but it's the most manageable size for the back of my pickup.

This past weekend I broke ground after finalizing the foundation layout. 19 different piers with a range of Sonotube (10" and 12") and spread form sizes... I "test dug" two of the 30" dia. x 3.5' holes by hand. Soil was great, but still a lot of work. Have a skid steer booked for this upcoming weekend to make short work of it. Here's a shot of the action (don't worry, this was a corner pier, and the stakes and lines are all laid out very well and sqaure - I understand the picture looks like I'm just digging holes  )



Hoping to get all the holes dug this weekend, forms set, and most (if not all) of the concrete poured. Would be great to have all of this done before Memorial Day.

So here's my question: All along, I've been planning to use Simpson ABU66Z for my post bases, but dang are they expensive! I'm looking at $25-30 x 19 for a total of ~$570. Seems crazy for post bases. I already purchased my anchor bolts, and I like the idea of the 1 inch standoff and flexibility that the ABU allows. Has anyone had luck with other post bases that use a pre-cast anchor bolt system? What about doing a mix of ABA66Z's and ABU66Z's? I could put the ABU's on the center and corner posts, and the cheaper, less sturdy ABA's on all others? Thoughts?

Here's another shot (bad quality) before I go. Take care, and thanks again.



www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com

[midrover170]

Lots of progress this weekend. Foundation halfway poured.

On Friday, I picked up the walk-behind skid loader with a 30" auger bit. Hauling it up to the lot went well and I was able to dig five of the 19 holes before dark. Up bright and early with a friend and dug the remaining holes by 10 o'clock. Perfect timing because that's when Lowe's was planning to deliver three skids of Quikrete. I have no phone, internet or cell service up there, so I had to coordinate closely with Lowe's. Headed down to the "base" and they were about 45 minutes late, but better late than never.

Here's where things went a little south... My hope all along was that Lowe's could get all the way, or at least part way up to the lot with the material. It was about 10,000 lbs. of Quikrete, so the reason was obvious. Their truck shows up, and it's massive. Basically an 18 wheeler with a loader on the back. Delivery guy hops in my truck to scout the road and on the very first turn, he says "no way." So, all the material was dropped about 15 minutes from my actual building site. Me, two friends, three trucks and a small flatbed made two trips, picking up all the bags, basically twice (once to get in the trucks and once to pile up at the site). It was pretty terrible 

We soldiered through and here's a shot of a friend on the Quikrete mountain (sorry, my phone takes some lousy pictures):


After moving all the concrete, I had to drive the auger back into town, pick up the cement mixer and more water. About a three hour turnaround. The Quikrete move put us way behind schedule and only got four piers poured before nightfall.

Sunday was an alone day for me, and by this point I was approaching exhaustion. Lifting those bags up to the stand mixer, in addition to all other digging, etc. was just a lot. I managed to get 5 more piers down, including four of the bigger ones (corner and mid-support). These had 30" diameter spread forms 10" thick, so the base alone took about six bags a piece.



Taken at the end of day three:


I'm planning to go up Wednesday, and again this weekend, to finish foundation work. Overall, things are going well. Just really hard work so it will that much sweeter when the foundation is complete.

That's it for now!

www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com

[midrover170]

Hi all -

VERY happy to announce that all my concrete is poured. 11,200 pounds of Quikrete later, and I have what is hopefully a very solid foundation. The weather for the weekend was looking really poor (lots of rain) and I am planning to be out of town over Memorial Day. I wanted to wrap up the project before leaving, get the cement mixer home and just have less to worry/think about.

Yesterday, my wife and I drove up with the hope that the rain would hold, and sure enough it did. We were able to pour the remaining six piers, set the anchors and call it good. Here's a recap of the foundation work:

• 19 separate piers
• All piers are 40 inches deep
• Six piers are 12" sonotubes on top of 30" dia. spread footings with cage installed
• Six piers are 12" sonos on top of 24" dia. Redi-base kits
• Five piers are 10" sonos on top of 30" dia. spread footings (just a wire sheet in these)
• Two piers are 10" sonos on top of the 24" Redi-base kits
• All piers have three sticks of bent rebar in them

Once all the dirt was shoveled back in, things really started to look exciting. In a couple weeks I hope to start cutting timbers and work on the floor system. Here are some photos. More to come.

www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com

[midrover170]

Hi folks.

After a couple weeks off, I was able to get another weekend at the land. With all the concrete poured, the goal was to set the posts and beams, and if time allowed, start laying the joists. I'll just post several pictures and you can see how the weekend went.

Checking accuracy of first beam


My friend working on notching the posts


End of first day


More framing on second day


I'm going to attach a support to that post where the splice overran... Not sure how the beams got off there, but it's off by about a half inch.


Gotta love when that happens...


Big takeaway: The water level was amazing. I'm so glad I made that thing. It did an amazing job getting the posts spot on with one another.

Hopefully more work/updates soon.

Cheers,
~D

[midrover170]

Snapped this last night (back to my less-than-ideal phone camera). After a big storm. Have about half the floor framed in.

[rick91351]

Snapped this last night (back to my less-than-ideal phone camera). After a big storm. Have about half the floor framed in.
--------------------------------  snip ---------------------------------------------------------------

Looking good....  LOL though that was a big storm.....  we had just fine graded the yard and it started lighting over your way and a big thunderhead rolled up over us and then over toward Danskin Mountain and we were  trapped in between..... WOW it was roaring - and lighting was shooting over the top of us back and forth your way over to Danskin.....  then here comes an other cloud not very wide and not very dark but talk about getting dumped on.  Please do not send anymore of those our way after we fine grade the yard because looks like we will be doing the fine grading again when this mess dries out......

[midrover170]

Just a day and a half at the land this weekend - ran out of material and steam.

Minus the posts and beams, I've done all this floor framing by myself. It's a great learning experience, but sure makes it hard going (especially nailing up those 16' 2"x10" rim joists...). Came home tonight with all the joists installed for the main cabin structure. I was really excited to also get the posts cut and notched for the deck. Next weekend I'm hoping to either start on the subfloor or frame out the deck, or both. More to come, but in the meantime, some more photos below.




Support system for the deck on the right. Will clean up the beam once the framing is finished.






Looking up from the hill



Taken as I drove off for the evening. The deck beam kind of makes an optical illusion.

[CabinNick]

Looks great.  I am enjoying watching your build.  How far of a drive is it to your cabin?  Our property is only 34 miles from our house but it takes an hour to get there.  Living close will sure make it easier when the time comes to build.

[midrover170]

Thanks. It takes me about an hour to drive there. Not too bad, and just close enough that I can go during the week and work an evening or two. Our goal was someplace within an hour and a half, and that's one reason why. As the crow flies the property is only 12 miles from us, but roads in Idaho don't work that way.

[midrover170]

Installed the subfloor this weekend - ready for walls!

About 80% of my time was spent installing all the ties/straps/hangers and blocking before the subfloor went on. I had four different rows of blocking (three above beams and one mid joist span). Also installed H1/H2 straps throughout and upside down joist hangers along the edge that will have the deck ledger board attached. It was a long process, but I know very important and well worth it.

I was able to get all the subfloor cut and installed with 20 sheets (my lower level footprint is about 550sf.). It was great to see everything going in so square and straight. Made me feel good about all the work that had gone into the foundation and floor system. I'd like to frame the deck in over the coming week, and the framing crew may be coming up sooner than I expected to frame in the shell. Lots of progress. More of a writeup on the blog.

[dmanley]

The only question I have is why the up side down joist hangers? They are carrying no load, which is their purpose.