Toilet Winterizing

[midrover170]

Hi folks -

It's approaching that time of year and I'm prepping for winterization. Here's the skinny - This is an off grid cabin, no well, no cistern (yet). We manually load the toilet for flushing. We plan to visit the cabin every 1-2 weeks throughout the winter. To winterize the toilet, what are my options? I can easily follow the antifreeze guides, but that seems like a heck of a lot of antifreeze to put into the septic tank. Is it possible to get a standard hand pump, and just pull the water out of the toilet? Something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Siphon-King-36-in-Utility-Hand-Pump-with-36-in-Hose-48036/205346978

Thoughts?

[MountainDon]

Do you want to take a chance on replacing the toilet after the water that might get left behind freezes and cracks the porcelain?  That's what it comes down to, porcelain doesn't stretch to accommodate freezing.  Redoverfarm even used anti-freeze once but didn't use enough to displace the water. He ended up with a diluted mix and the bowl cracked.

It would be nice to remove some water first so it took less antifreeze to flush away the water and keep the anti freeze strong. That pump will only remove water that is sitting in the bowl, not water that is in the trap portion. It should help though. Then add enough RV anti-freeze to retain the freeze protection.

[midrover170]

That pump will only remove water that is sitting in the bowl, not water that is in the trap portion.

Thanks, Don. I guess that's what got me to thinking... wouldn't the pump, if I worked it down the outlet, pull the water out of the trap? This is the model toilet I went with - doesn't look like it has that double trap setup that some have.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Glacier-Bay-1-piece-1-1-GPF-1-6-GPF-High-Efficiency-Dual-Flush-Elongated-All-in-One-Toilet-in-White-N2420/203076918?cm_mmc=hd_email-_-Thank_You-_-20160506_PP_ET_Merch_Boss_Damage_2934299-_-product_desc__W484449077

Am I still out of luck?

[MountainDon]

It's the rigid tube that draws the water and the hose that expels it.

Maybe it would work but that is a guess and may need a prayer. 

With an empty trap system then you run the risk of septic odors entering the building. 

[midrover170]

Good point on the odors, and all-the-above. Do you have much experience with this? One guide said to use a full gallon of antifreeze each time you winterize... I'm hoping to avoid using that much for obvious reasons.

[NathanS]

You could probably figure out a way to plug the toilet so gasses wouldn't come into the house.

If you can either use pressure to force the slug of water out, or if you suck it out with a pump, then you wouldn't need to pour as much antifreeze in. Also if you can suck the water out, that means you can suck the antifreeze out when you come back.

I definitely wouldn't use car antifreeze in a septic system, but I'm wondering if the non-toxic RV antifreeze wouldn't be as harmful.

This probably isn't cost effective, but the way RV toilets work is pretty awesome. There is just a rubber seal that holds about 1" of water at the bottom of the bowl. No water slug. Of course with a regular plumbing system you'd still need the 1.5 gallons to keep solids in suspension.

[DaveOrr]

When we winterized the fishing lodge I used to work at on Great Bear Lake NT we would use a wet vac to suck water out of the bowl and then pour about 1 quart of plumbing/RV antifreeze in the bowl. In all the years I worked there we never had a cracked toilet.

[jsahara24]

I use a plunger to get most of the water out.   Then I use 1 gallon of RV coolant for the entire kitchen and bathroom.  No issues for the last three years. 

[waggin]

My family had a place in a cold climate for a good chunk of my life.  We just emptied the tank, then bailed the trap manually with a paper cup and an old rag.  This, of course, was after a thorough cleaning.  Plugged it with a dry rag, and that took care of all significant odors.  If I were to do it again, I might try figuring out some form of solid plug for the bowl/trap to be even safer.  I'd much rather do this than antifreeze.  Depending on your time frame, antifreeze/water mix will potentially evaporate, and you'll end up with the open vent to septic.  Dust will also accumulate, and you'll have some quality time to spend with a pumice stone when you come back for the season.  We had our place closed up & winterized for about nine months at a time, and this worked flawlessly for us.