Can canned goods survive freezing?

[NM_Shooter]

I've been thinking about my pantry at my cabin, and what I might want to keep up there. 

Can canned goods (veggies, soups, stews, meats) survive being frozen, or does the can swell / split become otherwise useless?  I'm guessing that is the case, but wanted to see what your thoughts were.

[muldoon]

I dont think they are designed to deal with that. 

When the food is sealed in a can it is then boiled or heated up extremely hot so that no living micro-organisms can be alive inside the can.  Absent any living thing, and absent oxygen - new bacteria does not have the environment necessary to grow thus the long shelf life of cans. 

But a freeze/thaw cycle could cause the liquid in the cans to expand and contract thus the can will shrink/swell and distort resulting in being swollen or having bulges, which can make them leak or allow microscopic holes that do allow in bugs and thus bacteria.  Thus any can that is bulging or dented or swelled has to be tossed. 

If you want steady temps for longer term storage - a weekend with a shovel should get you down to the "frost line" where you can put in a root cellar.  (damn fine thing for a homestead to have anyway).  Then you should have a location that doesn't get the temp extremes and "mostly" do ok year round. 

[rick91351]

If you wish to keep something up there to winter over look more to MREs and dehydrated.  Not a bad idea to have something such as that around anyway so long as the rodents are not attracted to such.  Or put them in a five gallon survival bucket with a secure lid with other goodies.  You know matches and a space blanket, small first aid kit, fishing hooks and some line maybe a few railroad or traffic fusees are real handy getting a fire started and can be use to attract attention if need be.         

     

[MountainDon]

We've kept things packaged in foil and foil laminate packaging. Things like pouches of salmon and tuna


milk  


They have kept well. The flexible packaging helps.

dry spaghetti sauce mixes


Olive oil, peanut butter, ketchup, small bricks of velveeta "cheese", as well as assorted dry foods such as mac 'n' cheese in a box, chicken soup mixes, dry pastas like cheese filled tortellini and of course noodles, rice and  dry beans. Pancake mix and syrup. Idahoan mashed potatoes (dry), scalloped potatoes in a box, assorted crackers, assorted cereals (oatmeal, cream of wheat, grits, cheerios), granola bars, chocolate bars, dried fruits (apples, strawberries, blueberries, cherries, apricots, figs), onion flakes, onion and garlic powders, spices, marshmallows,

I have also carried out tests on canned spaghetti sauce and canned tomatoes as well as some canned baked beans and a canned soup. I froze them solid in the home freezer. Thawed them in room temperature. Froze them again. Thawed, etc. Several cycles. The cans never bulged at all which I thought they would do. Then I let them sit on a room temperature shelf or 6 months. They still never bulged at all. So I tried them out. With the exception of the spaghetti sauce they all suffered from the freezing experience. The beans became almost "refried" in their consistency. The soup (vegetable something) "separated" and the texture suffered. Spam neither improved or deteriorated. Strange.    

I have thought of adding some freeze dried vegetables or meat to the pantry, maybe some FD eggs, however the costs bother me. I figure we can eat pancakes, mashed potatoes, pasta along with the small assortment of relatively lightweight and sturdy things like a zucchini, some snap peas, oranges, a few tube steaks (Nathan's), some pre grated sharp cheddar... Last winter we also carried in a small container of eggs; pre broken at home, placed in a Ziploc container and frozen. Thawed out we scrambled them up in an omelet with reconstituted onion flakes, grated cheese and cubed Nathan's hot dog fried up to resemble bacon.

Last winter we had more than enough food stored up there. This winter probably even more as we have a larger supply of water. Last winter, before we had the cistern, I left a total of 40, 3/4 filled gallon jugs of water. 3/4 full to allow for freezing expansion. This winter we'll have 300 gallons.

This winter I think I may even snowshoe in with a steak or marinated chicken breast in the pack.

We also leave enough clothing (socks, underwear, shirts and spare pants) up there so we need not be concerned with apparel. We have ample bedding and spare winter jackets, gloves and toques as well as spare boots stored on the property. Add the unlimited supply of firewood and I feel we are pretty well set. Stabilized gasoline for the generator. Two 40# propane tanks, plus a couple of 20's. TV. A wine box. A bottle of Jameson and Bailey's. It's as good as home.    Maybe better.

[muldoon]

Don, I do the same but on a smaller scale as well.  I have a stock of clothes, blankets, tools, booze, stabilized fuel, medicine and canned goods as well out there.  (but do not have the freezing concerns in my location).  I keep most things pretty well out of site, you would have to know where to look for just about anything. 

I picked up a plastic barrel with a sealing band type lid for dry goods.  Keeps the mice out of your paper products to - don't know why they love to eat TP so much.  I have plenty of room in that barrel - thanks for the list of things to consider adding to it. 

[MountainDon]

....don't know why they love to eat TP so much. 

Ain't that the truth. TP and Kleenex are magnets for them.   

Those barrels are great for storage. We have a number from 20 gallon up. There are also food grade barrels with large screw on lids available. They are used for importing olives and peppers. If steam cleaned they are great for storing water (if there's no freezing).

[NM_Shooter]

Thanks for the comments.

I'm starting to leave stuff up at my cabin, and plan on leaving some foodstuff up there for emergencies... mine, and anybody who might get stranded in the area.  Powdered foods (soups, sauces), pastas, some vacuum packed rice, beans, mashed potatoes, gravy are no- brainers.  I was wondering if things like canned meats would last.  Good to know on the SPAM    Foil tuna is good too. 

You know what I'd like to find?  a medium to large box that I could put stuff in and vacuum pack the whole box, but could open and re-vacuum as required.

I wonder if a 5 Gallon paint type bucket with gamma lids could be converted to a vacuum container?  Do you think the plastic would outgas any nastiness?  It would be nice for longer term storage of cereals, crackers, cookies, etc.  The vacuum bags are nice, but they are not very user friendly deep off grid.  A hand pump and resealable container would be ideal. 

I'm going to google this a bit.

[lonelytree]

Don,
I thank you for your post. Pancake syrup was a concern as it is easy high energy food. Spam is ... well bacon in disguise under certain circumstances.

I am putting together a survival list for my "shed". It will be for people that are indesperate need of food, warmth, and shelter. Hopefully, it will prevent breakins at my cabin.

Thanks,
LT

[MountainDon]

I think the 5 gallon plastic pails might collapse under a serious vacuum, unless really full like in full of grain.


I'm not too worried about vacuum packing. I believe that as long as the packaged foods are kept dry and used and replaced over time there would be little need of that. It would be important to keep the mice out and that's where heavy duty plastic or metal boxes could come in handy. On the other hand if we're talking about doomsday storage, well, that is another topic. We simply want to have a variety of food in the cabin over winter so i and when we get up there we don't have to pack food in by snowshoe. It's also nice to have some extra food up there the rest of the year for "just in case" scenarios.

I'm not sure if I made it clear that the aseptic milk packs were also tested through several freeze thaw cycles with no problems. Ditto on drink boxes. Plastic 64 oz. bottles of juices like apple, white grape, grapefruit, V8 also came through the freeze and thaw tests alright.

[MountainDon]

For pasta lovers.... Bertolli now has sauces in pouches. I have one in the freezer now although I'm certain there will be no problems.




http://www.bertolli.us/premiumpastasauce.aspx

EDIT: 2011/08/23  it seems they discontinued this item.

[NM_Shooter]

Found these in the grocery the other day.  Pre-made meals, Hormel indicates a "best by" for consumption date of about a year out. 

Indicates store at room temperature.

A little expensive at about $2.50 each, but you can boil them right in the package, and burn the remains.  Excellent for elk camp!  I probably will not put any in the cabin over the winter until I do some freeze thaw tests to make sure that the package does not open up.  I bet it will be fine though.

[peternap]

Don't forget rice. There is no better emergency food.

Of course....I can't eat it.

[MountainDon]

Are those the ones that are dry and you add the water or are they wet?

If they are the dry, they're not bad, but I'd hate to eat them all the time. Good for elk camp as you said Frank.

[diyfrank]

I've been eating the Hormel dinners at our cabin. No water needed, just 2 min. in the microwave.
Ive tried them all and like most of them.

[NM_Shooter]

Nah... already wet.  Just heat and eat.  Just like the canned Hormel chili and things, only in a plastic tub. 

Been running the dehydrator a lot lately.  Mostly lemons and pineapples.  Experimenting with other things too.