steam radiators and fire...can one cause the other?

[MikeT]

This is not a construction question, but I pose it to those of you who are jacks of all trades.  In this case you get to play fire inspector:

Our historic chapel at Reed College had a fire this weekend.  Flames were seen shooting up one window.  It was quickly extinguished and damage is limited, I am told.  The cause they are citing is that a (steam) heating pipe ignited either wood or drapes.

Is this possible?  Likely?  Paper burns at 451 F.  I suppose fabric would be close to that.  Wood would be somewhat higher. 

Thoughts?

mt

[Okie_Bob]

Sounds like someone has been smoking some of that wacky tobacci to me. Steam is 212F which can be superheated to much higher temp but, not in typical home boiler, IMHO. It would also seem to me there would be lots of fires caused by radiators if that were the case. I'd look for another culprit were it my house.
Okie Bob

[NM_Shooter]

Hmmmm.... sounds odd to me too.  Where are the controls for the radiators?  Are the electrics near where the fire started? 

-f-

[MikeT]

The chapel is part of a very large brick building built in 1911.  It is heated via steam heat that is generated at a steam plant on campus and run via underground steam tunnels to the older buildings on campus.  Each radiator is individually controlled with a knob, but I will check if there is a newer, electric or electronic master control for that space.

It just seems odd to me, but before I  pose a lot of probing questions, I want to think this through.

Thanks,
mt

[MountainDon]

Steam heating pipes can and have been the cause of fires. What happens takes a long time. First the pipe has to be too close to the wood, usually where it passed through a drilled hole. Then over time the heat from the steam caused heats the wood high enough to change its characteristics. Don't forget steam is very hot, hotter than boiling water.

What happens is similar to what can happen to the wood in a wall behind a wood stove. After time the actual ignition temperature of the wood falls to much lower levels. My memory is shaky, but IIRC maybe as low as 250 F.

There's mention of this in some other thread. As well the wood stove thing has been mentioned someplace here too.

[ScottA]

While rare it is possible for a steam pipe to start a fire. Normaly steam pipes have thick insulation. In order to start a fire someone would have had to remove the insulation or it was installed incorrectly to start with.

[MikeT]

Thanks for the replies thus far.  Scott mentioned insulation around the pipes going bad, and that was my thought too.   Typically during this period, pipes like this would be wrapped with asbestos.  I need to dig deeper.  I guess I am concerned that if this was the cause, then it could happen in other places in this building.  And if it is not the cause, then what really was the cause?

mt

[MountainDon]

It wouldn't be the first time that somebody installed something incorrectly; or that somebody came along later and did something they should not have.

True, actual fire starting because of a steam pipe is rare, but it shouldn't be rules out.

[MikeT]

I dug a little deeper and this is from our head of facilities on campus:

Yes, it is a condition caused by a low heat source over an extended period of time which results in an actual change in the cellulose of the wood fiber in the paneling.  Ignition can occur even at the 215° F of range of steam pipe. There was not a lot of flame, but the wood smoldered for a good long time and created a lot of smoke.  This is a highly unusual occurrence and we will discuss with our insurance company and the fire marshal

So I guess there must be precedent for this.  Now I hope we determine the extent of future threats. 

I guess for the readers here, the lesson to be learned, as Don mentions, has to do with the prolonged exposure from a wood stove if not adequately addressed with a hearth and wall clearance.

mt

[MountainDon]

So I guess there must be precedent for this. 

I guess for the readers here, the lesson to be learned, as Don mentions, has to do with the prolonged exposure from a wood stove if not adequately addressed with a hearth and wall clearance.

I had pictures, or rather a links to pictures, but misplaced/misfiled, did something  and can't find it. It showed charred looking wood where an uninsulated pipe pierced a section of framing. The insulation went up to one side, but stopped where the pipe disappeared through the framing.

And yes this is why I feel strongly about building with proper clearances, proper materials, between wood burning stoves/heaters and the walls behind, beside and above the appliances as well as the chimney clearances.