Butting beams

Started by TisaWee Farm, September 14, 2007, 03:40:35 PM

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TisaWee Farm

September 14, 2007, 03:40:35 PM
Confused in Ohio again. :(

If I build another 14' cabin butted up to the side of a 14' cabin (T-shaped), and I use 1 pier at the intersection of the two buildings as told to do in another post .... how do I join the two beams together?  They can't BOTH sit in one bracket, and if I use some sort of bracket to fasten them together, the weight of one building will be on the bracket....not on a pier.

So confused!  

Thanks,
Chris Cooperrider in flooded out, wet, smelly Findlay Ohio

peg_688

#1
September 15, 2007, 09:59:47 AM
What I would do in this case is hang one beam off the other and add  a larger footing , say  8" D x 30"Wx30"W, that two pier pads   or brackets could be set in or set on . Not having much info here on what your brackets are made of , how big your pier is , is it a poured pier? A pier block per cast with bracket?

 I'd just beef up that pier situation and add a post about , or with in , 12" of the end of both beams , and I would make a positive connection of the two beams with at least a  hanger from Simpson , and I'd MTL run a couple of long lag screw , 1/2" x beam thickness x 2 long , thru one beam into the end grain of the other.  

jraabe

#2
September 16, 2007, 10:48:10 AM Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 10:51:37 AM by jraabe
Do what PEG says!

The bracket between the two beams will primarily be to stabilize the connection as you are not adding much weight to the main beam since the side beams are already transferring their load back into the inset piers. If that is the case then you do not need to enlarge the footings as they are not taking on new loads.

Draw out your foundation plan so you know you are not exceeding the spans in the plans and then trace your loads and I think you will see that you are not adding new loads when you butt the beams. If you are, then you do need a larger footing under the connection. But get it worked out on paper first. Much easier than fixing it later.

peg_688

#3
September 16, 2007, 12:30:24 PM
Quote

Do what PEG says!



[size=72]That what we like to hear[/size] ;D

 It would be  a better built world eh ;)

TisaWee_Farm

#4
September 18, 2007, 07:48:44 AM Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 07:50:43 AM by TisaWee_Farm
QuoteWhat I would do in this case is hang one beam off the other and add  a larger footing , say  8" D x 30"Wx30"W, that two pier pads   or brackets could be set in or set on . Not having much info here on what your brackets are made of , how big your pier is , is it a poured pier? A pier block per cast with bracket?
 

The beams are built-up 6X12's.  The brackets are 6" brackets imbedded in concrete piers.  Piers are 8" cement sonotube buried 4' deep and extending about 16" above ground.    I could use 12" sonotube where the two buildings join (and put two 6" brackets on it), but am confused as to how to line up the piers when one is bigger.  I'm putting them inset about 1" from the edge of the building.....just enough to be able to put a skirting-type thing over them.  They will be a maximum of 7' apart....with a couple of them only 5'1/2' foot apart (because of the layout).  The 12" pier will stick out too far.  

Maybe I need to just sit down and draw it out and figure out how far I need to inset them to make the 12" pier match....


glenn-k

#5
September 18, 2007, 09:04:58 AM
How about boxing the top part out with plywood to make it the shape you want so it won't interfere with your design.  It would take less then 30 minutes per footing.

jraabe

#6
September 18, 2007, 10:18:10 AM
Draw it out so you know where the loads are going. No sense overbuilding a pier or beam bracket that won't be loaded. Do a drawing of the foundation plan (pier layout) and we can give you real advice. If you have trouble posting an image you can email it as an attachment to john@countryplans.com.

TisaWee_Farm

#7
September 18, 2007, 11:04:33 PM Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 11:12:22 PM by TisaWee_Farm
Let's see if this attached.  Each square is 1'.  The cabins are 14X32 and 14X18, butted at about 7' (6'9" would be better, but 7 makes it easier to figure!)

I'm thinking it might be easier to pay someone to fabricate a bracket for me that will allow the two beams to adjoin on one pier.

peg_688

#8
September 18, 2007, 11:26:19 PM
 How many storeys is this place?

IMO you'll be fine hanging the beams off the long run , your piers are large and deep. Are they in place already? If not and your worried ,      (I wouldn't be unless your going up a couple of storeys , or your building in  a swamp, )  get two Big foot system bases and make the footer part larger it will be burried so it won't stick out / be in the way.

 I'd still run a couple of lags thru the beam into the other . Simpson sells some beefie brackets for just what your doing.

Or  add two pier set back 18" or a foot under the two shorter beams the form the T , again I'd still bolt the beams together. Just makes it more solid as you build and makes the piers system into one unit.

If your really worried you'll need a engineer to crunch the numbers. IMO your over built plenty as you drew it. But I am not a engineer , but it is only a 14' wide cabin right?    

TisaWee_Farm

#9
September 19, 2007, 06:47:49 AM
You are right....it's only 14' wide.  I would like to make the sidewalls 12' however, and have a decent loft area.  

No, I haven't dug the piers yet.  I'm hoping to borrow an auger that will fit on a borrowed tractor. :)   I'm just scared sh*tless about doing all of this.  I'm doing it all on my own (49 YO single grandmother), and I've got a lot of naysayers watching me.... just knowing that I can't do it or I'll screw up.   Everyone thinks I'm crazy.   So far, though, I've bought the land, and had the well, septic, electric, driveway, orchards and garden put in.   I've paid cash as I went, and building a small cabin myself is the only way I can afford it on a secretary's wages.  Hehe.   I just want to make sure I have it totally solid in my head before I start building.  If I would screw something like this up -- I'd never hear the end of it.

Thanks for all your help!
Chris

glenn-k

#10
September 19, 2007, 10:23:17 AM
Once you decide - do your squaring etc, you can put up your strings - run a level to the ground to transfer the string location - put a stake or nail into the ground, hook a 1/2 inch wide steel tape to it at ground level and stretch it out to a similar mark at the other end of the wall.  Get a bag of lime and with a can or paper cup, spread a line of lime lightly over the tape.  When you lift the tape it will leave a nice straight layout line on the ground that will make it easier to get your pier holes in the right place.  Use the lime to mark all layout locations.

There are many other ways to do this but this one works well for me.

glenn-k

#11
September 19, 2007, 10:34:10 AM Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 10:35:34 AM by glenn-k
In addition to the lags in the back as PEG mentioned you could use Simpson brackets.

Example - this or others.



Available in many sizes.  http://www.strongtie.com/products/categories/top_flange_ww.html

jraabe

#12
September 19, 2007, 10:45:28 AM Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 10:55:26 AM by jraabe
As PEG and Glenn suggest, you are basically linking and stabilizing the beams. The loads are carried from the joists to the beams at each end and the two sets of beam elements tie at the two shared piers. You have a bit of extra load at these shared piers but these are unlikely to be overloaded. About the only thing I might suggest is to enlarge the footing diameter 25% if you are concerned about the bearing of the soil (if it looks fine and loamy - if it is gravely and well drained, don't be concerned). Do lock the beams together with a bracket as suggested. This will tie the beams and then the framing will get locked together again as the walls above are sheathed.

You will have a nice sturdy structure when you are done.
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