Our Tiny (10 x 12) Cabin

[kenhill]

Is pressurized water and refridgeration part of your electrical needs?

[Gary O]

no

not this year

it is a dream for one day

got sumpm simple?

[Gary O]

wow..cool gary.  You got your place sold that is huge.  Now the adventure begins...learning through doing..congrats on making your dream real. 

Woodshed..ha... I just got something up this year as well.  The reality is that I think when i piled the wood in pile (to shed water) and put a tarp with tires holding it down it seemed to have worked better keeping wood dry then my new skidable redneck/repurposed tin roof shed.  maybe i'm wrong though sometimes its tough to look back when you need to keep your eyes on the horizon...bt winter is a good time for that kind of reflection.  My best to you gary...woot.

thanks, speed

don't know if I'm excited or skeerd

definitely has the heart a pumpin'

[kenhill]

You could go with an Proprane fridge and freezer.  People use a 12 volt RV pump, instant Proprane heater for a shower, and a filter for drinking.

[Gary O]

looking at propane water heaters for the hand held shower
not impressed with what I've seen so far, rather mickey mouse
got a good one you know about?

[OlJarhead]

I use the Marey 10l and a neighbor has a very similar one.  Both require no electricity (just a couple D cell's which last a long long time) and the RV pump will work fine (it's what I did for a long time).

I filled a 55gallon food safe drum with potable water (can buy them at a local Ace for $35) and the Surflo RV pump to provide the water pressure as well as the Marey hot water heater

Was great to have a shower!

[MountainDon]

The RV type water pressure pumps do not use a lot of power in total as they do not run very many minutes during an average day. They do draw something like 7 amps IIRC, so that is something to take into account. Still, if you stayed away from using any 120 VAC devices that consume large amounts of power, two GC-2 batteries would work as previously discussed.

One of the reasons I decided to stay away from on demand water heaters is our particular part time application. On demand types can be difficult to drain or blow out completely to prevent freeze damage. Then there was/is the issue of where to mount it; many of the smaller types are meant for outdoor use only... freezing temperatures bring issues again even if you are there full time. You can build work arounds...  So I went with an RV water heater; non approved for residential use mind you. It has it's own issues like taking up a large amount of under counter space, having one face open to the weather with attendant heat loss.



Refrigeration: propane works but the fridge is costly and they do burn propane, maybe up to 1 LB. a day. Maybe less. Depends on cabin interior temperatures.   Depending on how large a fridge you need or want 12 VDC can also be viable. On the smaller end Truckfridge has a 4.something cu ft 12 VDC that works well. There are also other brands that are a little more efficient but cost more.  We have one in the trailer and I'd buy it again. Runs fine off 2 golf cart batteries with some every other day generator time, although I tend to run the generator almost daily for a hour or so in hot weather. I want to add some PV solar to cut that down, maybe eliminate it. But in no rush. 

On the larger end there are 12 VDC Sunfrost and Sundanzer; larger both in capacity and cost. But you'd need more batteries and should have solar to make it worthwhile, IMO.   And there is always the converted chest freezer thing where you use a special controller to make the freezer maintain refrigerator temperatures. Supposed to work well, but you have to be okay with a chest type unit and have the floor space required. And lastly, when there is sufficient PV capacity coupled to sufficient battery capacity you can simply opt for a regular household refrigerator. A high rated efficient model to be sure. With the falling PV panel prices that has become a very workable choice for full timer off grid use. 

[Redoverfarm]

no

not this year

it is a dream for one day

got sumpm simple?

Gary Downsizing is good but keep in mind what you will have the future.  There are certain amenities that are a necessity that you probably do not have now but will most likely try to incorporate later.  With that being said try to build a system now that will take all of this in mind.  I know I haven't given you the "sumpm simple" but a little from experience.  Personally I could have went with a smaller inverter but I wasn't sure what I would have later so I opted for the Magnum 4400.  Why Magnum is that they offered a 240 volt output whereas Outback did not w/o the purchase of two and stacking them.  I would probably go for something in 24V or 48V system.  In my planning stages most 24V system users stated they would have gone w/ 48V if hindsight was 20/20. 

[Gary O]

Well, let me back up a bit.

I have much to build.
I really really just need lights.
We've roughed it before.
We're not going in totally blind.

now

Back to the 'much to build'

I have an addition to the 2nd cabin, a utility shed, and a shop to build...this summer.

Hunker in for the winter

Then, in late spring (or earlier if that winter w/be like this one, 48°F today) add to the shop and start the main house, while dabbling with establishing a sea berry crop in the meadow.

The main house w/be a s-l-o-w step by step project.
What we've done so far is just play.
The main house will only be 600 sf, but have a partially covered wraparound deck, and built like a fortress.
That's the place that will require all the juice I can put together.
It will be one great room and one other room, windows everywhere.
I really really don't wish to overdo it in the cabin we will be in at present. Minimal amenities.

But I love you guys for what you're saying, and appreciate it.

The wonderful thing is, I won't be 'going' to work.

[Texas Tornado]

Reading the thread and thinking that maybe what we need is a section in the forum for "Solar" for newbies/noobs...
This is what you need~ solar panels (this size and from this company)(when you find them in anywhere from 10 watts to 300 it just adds to the confusion)
Inverter~ (this size and from this company)
Batteries~ you are getting the drift......
Maybe a sub section to it for if you are planning on running 10 LED lights, a coffee pot, a fan/heater,TV, laptop, chest freezer, refrigerator, a couple of lamps, a charge up station/dock etc....
See at this point my poor brain is already hurting and I am wanting to go grab a bottle and just drown out the grey cells....Make it simple so we can all understand it...

[MountainDon]

Reading the thread and thinking that maybe what we need is a section in the forum for "Solar" for newbies/noobs...
This is what you need~ solar panels (this size and from this company)............

Unfortunately it is not quite as simple as that. Peoples needs and wants vary from the simple through to the more complex. What I need to run our home is quite different from what runs our cabin. And what runs our cabin is quite different from what one of our friends' needs to run their simple weekend retreat. Add in varying degrees of sunny and cloudy overcast weather in different parts of the country, higher temperatures and lower temperatures, trees in the wrong place, and it becomes mind boggling.

To build a system you will be happy with, that will serve for years, starts with knowing how much power you need. That is a stumbling block for many. Without knowing that nobody can make intelligent decisions, nobody can make intelligent and accurate recommendations. As much as I would also like to be able to say "do this, do that" that's not going to work well. It'll be too large for some and too small for others. Making a small system bigger after the fact does not work well.

Northern Arizona Wind & Sun is an established alternative energy vendor. They also have a great forum. A lot can be learned there and the advice given is solid. But they don't have a magic list either.  I don't mean to chase you off, we welcome questions on off grid here too. However, NAWS has a whole forum full of "already been asked" questions with replies from many who work daily in the wind and solar business.

[OlJarhead]

I agree with Don (sorry for the hijack) but perhaps we could have a section where people describe their systems and what they use them for?  Maybe that might help but as Don says there is really no majic bullet here.  Best bet is to start with you electrical needs (how much, how often, how long etc) and use the PV spreadsheet to start to see what you might need.

[Texas Tornado]

MtDon Thank You for the link to the forum! Can a sticky be done that shoots folks to it?

[Texas Tornado]

geeze  even the start here section is way above my head  http://forum.solar-electric.com/forumdisplay.php?18-Solar-Beginners-Corner
Anyone willing to adopt me and teach me? 

[Gary O]

I agree with Don (sorry for the hijack) but perhaps we could have a section where people describe their systems and what they use them for?  Maybe that might help but as Don says there is really no majic bullet here.  Best bet is to start with you electrical needs (how much, how often, how long etc) and use the PV spreadsheet to start to see what you might need.

Man, I agree.
No hijack, just a side road, a very important one.
A thread with electrical needs and you pros addressing them w/be great.
I'm with Texas T, too easy to get off on a bunny trail...and get lost.

[UK4X4]

I sometime size solar systems at work for projects arround the world, its easy to get lost with % here and % there, an amp here and amp there.

When i was starting out I'd try and size a system do all the calcs, there are many ways to do the calcs...all slightly diferent

I'd then get either a company to quote or simply check sizes against an available kit.....ie from a supplier who has already sized panel-controller and batteries..to insure I was in the right ball park.

Even from the suppliers they'd provide a diferent calc, but often the end result was the same even though he'd used diferent fudge factors...

ie http://www.altestore.com/store/Packaged-Systems/Off-Grid-Cabin-Systems-Solar-Packages/c466/

Dont get too carried away with the tech

[Texas Tornado]

I sometime size solar systems at work for projects arround the world, its easy to get lost with % here and % there, an amp here and amp there.

When i was starting out I'd try and size a system do all the calcs, there are many ways to do the calcs...all slightly diferent

I'd then get either a company to quote or simply check sizes against an available kit.....ie from a supplier who has already sized panel-controller and batteries..to insure I was in the right ball park.

Even from the suppliers they'd provide a diferent calc, but often the end result was the same even though he'd used diferent fudge factors...

ie http://www.altestore.com/store/Packaged-Systems/Off-Grid-Cabin-Systems-Solar-Packages/c466/

Dont get too carried away with the tech

Click the link and the first thing there is: The solar packages listed below contain up to 1,000 Watts of solar panels which are ideally used as off grid cabin systems. So is this one panel or a dozen and what is the wattage per panel (like I understand that)...
TT

[Gary O]

 
So, for all appearances sake, we sold the house...again.
This is only the third or fourth time in the last month.
Seems we attract kindly looking, well meaning folks with little blots on their record, like, ohhhh, sayyyy ax murdering.
Our HOA rules seem to frown on the silliest stuff.

Anyhoot, we agreed to scoot on outta our place in two weeks.
(yes, we are nuts)
Now we gotta twist our activity up a notch.
Nothing has been done at the cabin....nothing.
Haven't even been there since last fall when we closed it up for winter.
We've got a bit over a week to cram the rest of our crap into the container, whip down to the cabin, lay out a spot to put the container, unbutton the cabin for spring (it's scheduled to snow there for the next few days), and whip back up, get the container mover to load it up and point it in the direction of our cabin.
Thing is, since retirement (a couple days ago) we kinda got our days and nights mixed up. Of which, when in yer sixties, seems to turn one into a shuffling irritable slack jawed zombie, sorting, packing, picking up things and putting them back down, shuffling off into another room, farting and scratching.

Meals have become sporadic.

I tend to forage in the fridge, and now I'm on a mission to wipe out whatever is in there.
Attempted to use up the homemade blackberry jam in a bowl t'wards the back of the fridge, hiding behind the antediluvian cantaloupe.
It had a skin on it.
Couldn't penetrate the membrane with a butcher knife...saving it for later. A candidate for fruit leather for sure.
Things is, I really don't have any idea what's 'good' or 'bad' in there.

Akshly, the entire kitchen is a mystery world to me.
Not that long ago I finished off what I'd considered to be an ancient salad sittin' there on the counter in a stainless steel bowl.
Turns out compost ain't too bad if you put enough thousand island on it. BMs tend to become a bit peculiar.

But, yeah, D day is here.
Gotta go from shuffle mode to scurry.
I no longer scurry well.
Lucky if I can maintain a steady plod.
Still got a good mosey.
But, gotta get my giddyup on.
I don't dare leave packing my stuff up to the lovely side of this union.
She has a tendency to heave armloads of anything into boxes.

Last move, five days before moving day;
'Dear, any idea where my toothbrush may be?'
'It's probably in one of those boxes marked misc.'
'Ah, yes, here it is, with the nest of extension cords, my set of ratcheting box end wrenches, and the toilet plunger.'

I'll do my best to type in updates as they occur...that is if my lady doesn't pack this keyboard today.....


Got an iphone 6, ipad, and jet pack.

Boy

Do I ever feel stooopid

Oh, also got an inverter/Jenny
I'll change out the oil after an hour or so of running.
Not totally happy with the design, but glad it runs quiet. 

[OlJarhead]

You have me laughing!

Interesting find on the genny, I'll want to know how it turns out.

Good luck on the move!

[Gary O]

Interesting find on the genny, I'll want to know how it turns out.

Will letcha know.

It's going with us today to the cabin....or, as I'm now calling it, 'home'.

Not real happy with the oil plug location, as it's tucked in behind the plastic housing, requiring the fingers of a four year old, or a universal double jointed plier, when changing the oil.

And there is only one...oil goes out where it goes in.

Funny, when you work with design engineers and marketing folks for three decades, you can almost see how things transpire into a goofy design.
I can well imagine Ryobi jumped on the band wagon to get an inverter/genny version on the store shelves and snag a piece of what's become a hot market.
Then realizing, in midproduction, a main feature of their competition was 'quietness'...considered the 100,000 engines on the assembly line, the time frame of the market window, and whipped up a thick plastic housing, along with handy sound dampening pads stuck to the inside panels, diligently capping off the cobbled fix with tiny tedious screws to secure said panels.

I'll tell ya, I do believe what's left of the discerning portion of my noggin' has also retired.
I reviewed Honda (of course), and HFT, Yamaha, Ryobi, and about four others.
Danged if I could remember which I liked better, so went to Home Dopey and grabbed the one in front of me.
They asked if I wanted the extended warranty.
'How much?'
'$130'
'ahhhhhhahhhhh hahhhh hahahaha...no'
I'll use the 90 day no questions deal

Not real fond of the bright green color, but s'pose I'll find it in the dark.
It is quiet, so I'm in hopes that we will be able to read by the glow of a sixty watt bulb without screaming 'WHAT?' in each other's ears while we lay in bed.

Oh, it has a handy pull out handle and tiny plastic wheels of which have an endearing design feature that enables one to drag the genny behind on its side when strolling thru the woods.

Well, it's getting to be 6 am here, and I've got to find my underwear.

My lady sez she thinks they are in box seventeen.

[UK4X4]

"My lady sez she thinks they are in box seventeen"

after 7 international moves since 2005...I know that feeling !...bare with it -things will get organised soon enough....

I soon learnt to pack my own shit so I could at least have what I wanted where I knew it was ....I think our last pack was a 40ft high cube and 280 box's...packages

The dogs had to be carefull too where they slept

[Gary O]

HAH!
a world travel weary Weimar...love it

[kenhill]

I have the Costco Inverter Generator that has a supposed Yamaha engine.  Uses more oil than I thought it should.  Not fond of going out to the generator shed to shut it down when it is below zero, so I ran door bell wire to the of swich and connected it to a door bell button at the cabin.  Might want to do that after the 90 day warranty is up.

[CjAl]

You will have to excuse me.  I have a touch of A. D. D.  And when posts get long and technical I have a tendency to skim or skip all together but I wanted to add my thoughts on led lighting.

I find the idea of buying every expensive led 120v Bulbs to run off batteries requiring an inverter which eats up more power to be senseless...  Bordering on wasteful.  Go to eBay or Amazon and you can find 100ft rolls of adhesive flexible led strips intended for auto and motorcycle applications.  You can cut them to any length you need,  stick them anywhere and run them directly off the 12v power source with no loss.  I built a small shelf type deal at the top of my walls and stuck them on the top to hide them from sight and they shine up the ceiling.  Have them under cabinets,  and will have them run along my porch ceilings when I get that far

[Gary O]

  I built a small shelf type deal at the top of my walls and stuck them on the top to hide them from sight and they shine up the ceiling.  Have them under cabinets,  and will have them run along my porch ceilings when I get that far

cool