CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: Beavers on June 27, 2009, 05:15:45 PM

Title: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on June 27, 2009, 05:15:45 PM
I started construction this spring on a 16 x 28 house.  Progress has been real slow and I don't see anyway of having it dried in by winter.  So, my wife and I decided to put the larger house on hold for now, and build a small house to live in while we build the larger one.


We really want to get moved out of the house that we are renting, and live in something of our own.  We realize it's going to be very small, and that it will be a challenge to live in such a small space.  We view it as kind of an experiment though... How much space do you really need to live?  We spend 90% of our time in our current house in an area as small as the 12x16.  The rest of the square footage is mainly devoted to things.  If we eliminate the need for all our things, I think 200sf is more than enough living space.

To quote my favorite author Thoreau,

"Simplify, simplify.  Instead of three meals a day, if it be necessary eat but one, instead of a hundred dishes, five; and reduce other things in proportion.



This is the plan for the house.  Going to go with 10' sidewalls and a loft for the bedroom. It will also have an eight foot deep porch on the front with a shed roof.

The plan is to build as quickly and cheaply as possible, and be moved in this fall.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F12x16.jpg&hash=186444ec12fd24568168e171e6d4d57dfd4cd87d)



Drilled the holes for the piers last weekend, and started setting the posts last week.
I did 12" diameter holes 4' deep, and then poured a concrete footing in each hole.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP6240001.jpg&hash=97e318af7630a4e5b97a571673684f76354dd73d)



I set 8' posts and then cut them down.  The laser level came in handy again.  ;D


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP6250003.jpg&hash=146136e589f77a01c368918f81ca90b27c4d719a)



Got the rest of the posts set today, and all cut to height.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP6270004.jpg&hash=4374a9e4b90e8a44d22d6bd836f4be430c0b8992)



Set the first beam, should get the other one set tomorrow.  Then spend the rest of the week working on the pier and beam bracing.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP6270007.jpg&hash=0f8b6e538730a09f157223749981042059883e0b)


Hope to be dancing on the subfloor by the 4th of July!  [cool]





Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on June 28, 2009, 03:33:26 PM
Got almost a full day of work in today.  Both beams are set and braced.  Also got started on cutting the 4x6 braces for the piers.  


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2Fcv.jpg&hash=e5ae4bdf29bf4d0cd681bdb98ab1f433606e2814)



I didn't want to use Simpson brackets for the pier to beam connection.  I decided to sandwich the beam with a 1x6 on the outside and a 2x6 on the inside... seems beefy enough to me.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2Fer.jpg&hash=c797d3423262be42686eb775d34082ce2189de57)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2Ffg.jpg&hash=ef023c243e041b231ea8f5828a8826460b22916c)


I dug the hole the other day for the water and septic lines.  Figured it would be a lot easier to build the enclosure for them before the floor is on.  What size pipe do I need to put in for the septic?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: ScottA on June 28, 2009, 04:47:36 PM
3" pipe will work.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on June 28, 2009, 05:03:20 PM
Another lefty  [cool]
Chapter 30 has the words to the "I hate plumbing" song. It depends on fixture units but a 3" ought to get it.
I'd say your tie is better than a simpson.

One other way to brace this would be a treated 2x between posts horizontally and treated ply wrapping the skirt area. It would take cripple studs from the beam to the 2x to keep the ply from buckling under lateral load but this would be a superior form of bracing, basically shear walls wrapping the posts. If the ply breaks halfway up on the beam it would allow the wall sheathing to tie down onto the beam as well.

This is stand alone? I don't see the other piers.

I type slow, I see Scott answered.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 28, 2009, 06:07:28 PM
Scotts the plumber but I like to use a 4" for the main and any 1st floor toilets.  Loft or Second floor Toilets I switch to 3".  I guess it may just be a matter of preference or cost.  Maybe it just takes longer to create a clog in 4"  [toilet]
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: ScottA on June 28, 2009, 07:09:02 PM
For less than 3 toilets 3" is all that's needed. Some areas require 4" where it leaves the foundation though. I used 3" on my cabin.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on June 29, 2009, 12:50:14 PM
Thanks for the plumbing help guys!


Don,

I forgot that the IRC had a chapter on plumbing, I'll check it out.
The shear wall idea sounds like a great way to combine the bracing and skirting.  I all ready bought and started chopping up the 4x6's for the bracing so I'm committed to that route now.

Yes the 12x16 is separate from the 16x28.  I'm trying to build this thing cheap and fast, not really the kind of quality I want attached to the main house.  After we move into the larger house the 12x16 will become a shop/hobby building.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: poppy on June 29, 2009, 03:37:07 PM
Looking good.  You are much faster than I.

How are you hanging the joists?  I don't see a sill plate or hangers.  I am told on the forum that nails alone in shear is not a good thing.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on June 29, 2009, 04:16:59 PM
Looking good.  You are much faster than I.

How are you hanging the joists?  I don't see a sill plate or hangers.  I am told on the forum that nails alone in shear is not a good thing.

Thanks!  ;D

The joists are going to sit on top of the beam, with hurricane clips to hold them down.  The 2x12's that I have in now are just to brace the beam, and give me some place to attach the 4x6 braces for the piers.   From the pics I have now, I know it looks like they are the floor joists.  ::)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on June 29, 2009, 06:29:37 PM
You can use joist hangers and attach the joists to the beam if you want. Might not work with your required flood elevation though.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: speedfunk on June 30, 2009, 08:02:08 AM
good luck..I hope it's a speedy build... hahaa   d*
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on June 30, 2009, 04:37:31 PM
good luck..I hope it's a speedy build... hahaa   d*

Thanks!


Got the floor joists done today.
After doing nothing but concrete work on the other house I'm thrilled to be working with wood now.  Framing is actually fun!  ;D



I'm using 2x12's at 24" OC.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP6300002.jpg&hash=439eb55c8e21095db14ecaa741e0baf453ff4e0d)



I left one joist out to give me room to work on the plumbing enclosure.  I had to get creative a couple of time trying to hold things in place since I was working by myself.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP6300002b.jpg&hash=87f3d8f1a3abb9fe582356314dd09d8e471d7800)



Here is the lower part of the plumbing enclosure.  Going to drop it into the hole tomorrow and get the plumbing stubbed out until I rent a trencher later to run the rest of the lines.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP6300003.jpg&hash=48b699eda20ad3932e4977724708e61357d3f9a3)



Also got the rest of the 4x6 pier braces cut, going to get them installed tomorrow along with the subfloor.

Thinking ahead to the wall framing I've got a couple of questions.   ???

Is balloon framing of the rake walls the way to go?

I'm using 10' 2x4's for the walls.  If I let in a 1x6 for a ledger for loft joists I'll be notching less than 25% of the stud thickness.  But then I'd only have 3/4" of bearing for the joists.  Can I add another thickness of 1x6 between the studs to get the 1 1/2" of bearing I need?  Or do I just need to use jack studs under the loft joists?

Thanks for any help!
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: ScottA on June 30, 2009, 05:04:04 PM
You might take a look at this thread. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1418.0 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1418.0)

I belive the 1x6 ledger plus nails to the side of the stud is all you need for the loft floor joists.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Bishopknight on June 30, 2009, 05:11:21 PM
Hey Beavers ( and anyone else thinking living can't be done in a 12x16 )

This will make you feel better. People actually live in this 62 sq ft apt!
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/159/159979_flat_that_was_a_cupboard_is_135_a_week.html (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/159/159979_flat_that_was_a_cupboard_is_135_a_week.html)

I stayed in my 12x16 house all winter while building my 30x40. Btw, if you want some inspiration pics for your 12x16, check out my thread. I found a really cool 12x16 selling on ebay that I swiped the pictures from.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4569.msg75777#msg75777 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4569.msg75777#msg75777)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on June 30, 2009, 06:16:16 PM
Scott got it in the ledger,
The 1x4 ribbon is the exception to the rule, read R502.6, look at the right side of figure R 602.3(1). Do not forget that fireblocking is required at that point and all around the framing at a maximum of 10' intervals, R 602.8. If you rip and install that blocking flush to the top of the ribbon and nail it through the ribbon and through the sheathing it'll give you excellent bearing as well as providing the required blocking between floors.

Balloon framing on the gable is the correct way to do it. One way is to run them long with a board tacked across the outside for alignment .Then slide a rafter pair up against them, scribe the top of the rafters on the long studs and then drop down for the lookouts and plates to cut the rake stud length. Read table R602.3.1 for stud sizes by wall height... notice it applies to the let in loft support walls as well and read the footnotes on that table.

Measure all sides and make sure they are equal and crosscut the deck for square. Pop inside edge lines for the bottom plates that are correct. Take time to square, plumb and brace as you go, errors magnify to the roof. Align wall studs above floor joists and rafters above studs. This is the fun part, I spent the last couple of days doing a roof with an owner builder.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on June 30, 2009, 07:29:46 PM
Bishopknight,

I've checked out your 12x16 thread quite a few times!  [cool]   I'm pretty sure I'll be able to steal a few great ideas form your project.  ;D


Thanks for the link to the ledger info Scott.  I skimmed that thread before, but forgot all the details there.

Don,

I actually read AND highlighted R502.6, somehow I just picked up on the first part that calls for 1 1/2" bearing.  I completely missed the exception for the 1x4 ribbon!  d*
As far as R 602.3....
The 10' 2x4 walls are ok, but having 16' tall gable walls I need to use 2x6's?
Am I reading that right?  :-\
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 01, 2009, 03:50:02 AM
If you're framing the 10' loft support walls on 16's then 2x4's work, if on 24" centers then 2x6's. The tall gable walls are 2x6's just supporting a roof. And that has arguable points but the intent is to have a wall stiff enough to not buckle in the wind. My 13' gable 2x6 walls were pumping a bit when hurricane Hugo visited. At 12' across a horizontal beam plate to plate would be another way to reinforce the tall wall. Notice the chart is only good to 25 psf snow load so be careful pushing the envelope. The heavier the axial load, the weight pushing down the length of the studs, the easier it is for a side wind load to buckle them. The analogy I use is to put a thin stick between thumb and forefinger. Don't squeeze, push in on its middle with the forefinger of your other hand. Now squeeze down on it and push on its side again, much easier to buckle it. At the extreme squeeze it, pure axial load, and it buckles with no side load, too tall and slender for the load. There's the short course on column design  :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 02, 2009, 04:54:09 PM
Thanks for all the help Don!

What you posted on column design makes sense.  I can't picture in my head the horizontal beam you mention though.  ???  I could see how a let in 1x4 or blocking would keep the studs from bending in the middle, but how do you incorporate a beam?

Thanks again for taking the time to spell things out for a rookie builder!  ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 03, 2009, 03:18:14 PM
Laid the subfloor the other day.  I went with the cheap OSB and painted it.  Just hope I don't have too much trouble with it de-laminating.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7020001.jpg&hash=064328ec1fd5702ae55a037bd4896631e9e89a0a)



I finished up almost all the pier bracing today.  All the north-south bracing is in, just have to add three more east-west braces.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7030001.jpg&hash=5bc035e0dd8fa7bb819d00ee00a46e4a71667b7f)


A close up of the bracing.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7030004.jpg&hash=1bdf35b4ae2e07e562b4f690ff73abd6de2b947f)



Here is the lower part of the plumbing enclosure.  I'm going to make the top half easy to remove incase I need to work on it down the road.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7030007.jpg&hash=d7f20f2f7c504cec8741cb98061024d79d102b85)

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: poppy on July 03, 2009, 03:43:16 PM
Interesting bracing.  What are the fasteners on the corner bracing?  They look like wood pegs.  And how are you attaching the diagonal bracing?

Just curious, because I haven't designed my bracing system yet.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 03, 2009, 04:39:43 PM
Interesting bracing.  What are the fasteners on the corner bracing?  They look like wood pegs.  And how are you attaching the diagonal bracing?

Just curious, because I haven't designed my bracing system yet.


All the bracing is PT 2x6's.  I attached it with 3/8's lag screws... still have to add the plywood gusset's on the back side.  I countersunk the ones on the end braces and glued in a piece of 1" dowel.  I thought the timber frame look, was better than a bunch of lag srew heads sticking out everywhere.  The angle bracing thats heads back up under the house is sanwiched between two 2x12's that also brace the beam...I'll see if I can get a better pic of it.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: secordpd on July 03, 2009, 06:48:54 PM
Thanx for showing such detailed pics of the bracing Beavers,  I had an idea of how to do it but yours looks so nice, I like the timber frame look with the wood pegs, very crafty [cool].

Is there any reason why you brought the beams out the whole 12' as opposed to say 10' with a overhang like a lot of people here do?  Just curious, because I kinda want to do like you, but most people here do it the other way...     Thanx Helen
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 04, 2009, 06:35:09 AM
Thanks for the compliment Helen.  ;D

I've read on this website a few times that it is better to have your walls sitting directly over the piers.
I'm in tornado country too, and I want to be able to tie everything together good, to get as much uplift resistance as I can.  When I sheet the walls I'm going to run the sheeting all the down to the tops of the posts.

I'm not sure how much strength this actually adds compared to having a 10' width with a overhang.
Maybe one of the more experienced guys could spell out the pros and cons of each design for you.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on July 04, 2009, 07:19:36 AM
Great project Beavers!

Here is what I think will work for a detail of a 2x4 balloon framed wall for a 12' and 14' wide Little House cabin. Any additional suggestions?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg166%2Fjraabe%2F2x4-balloon_wall_sml.jpg&hash=fcfaf7586c24d0c824dffed94ce8a27f4c8e2532)

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: poppy on July 04, 2009, 09:32:35 AM
Thanks for answering my questions.  I too like the timber frame look since I am actually building a timber frame  ;D, but I am not above using false pegs where I really need bolts or lag screws.
Title: Porch design help needed
Post by: Beavers on July 04, 2009, 09:56:44 AM
Thanks for the detailed drawing John.  [cool]

Poppy,

I'm looking forward to following along with your timber frame construction!  Have you built timber frame before, or is this the first?
One of these days I want to buy some land in northern Minnesota and build a timber frame cabin there.  Here in Nebraska there's not much timber, so to buy big beams cost big $$$  d*


I'm building a 8' deep covered porch on the front side of the house, and have a few design questions.

I'm planning on using continuous 4x6 posts from the footings to the porch roof.  I would then bolt a 2x8 onto each side of the posts for the floor joists to rest on.  From what I've read this is not allowed by code, they want you to notch the posts or have the beam sit on top of the posts.  Doing it that way, I would them have to use some kind of brackets to then attach a second post to go up to the roof?  Doesn't seem as strong to me.  ???  What am I missing here?

I was also thinking that it would be better not to have the shed roof over the porch tie directly into the house roof.  My thinking is that in high winds the porch roof has a lot higher chance of getting blown off, and if I have it tied into the house roof it will also take that roof with it.  Is it ok to attach the high end of the shed roof to a ledger board bolted to the side of the house?

Thanks for any help on this.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2Fporchcopy.jpg&hash=1c1050b35bba145f339b2edb4936f892a618f888)

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: poppy on July 04, 2009, 10:28:48 AM
Quote
I'm looking forward to following along with your timber frame construction!  Have you built timber frame before, or is this the first?
OK Beavers, now you've gone and done it.  You've asked the critical question, am I a virgin builder?  Yes, I am. :-[ There I said, I feel better now.

I did take a wood shop class in high school and built a bookcase out of ash, and turned a few goblets from bowling pins.  I also built a few wood items when I was in 4-H, and built a couple of things for the band in HS.  I did some minor home improvements at my parents house.

During the college years I built my own sterio (Heathkit) and speaker boxes; then I built a complete sterio system for my sister-in-law.  And I built a toy box for my daughter (was a baby myself when we got married).

Since I worked for a residential steel door company for awhile, I was able to salvage some doors (entry and french) and installed them in our second house.

So yea, this is my first real construction project. As I said in my build thread, I know just enough to think I might just be able to do this. There are a variety of reasons for going slow and one of them is to learn as much as I can before the next phase, which, if you've been following my progress, doesn't always work. d*

Sorry about the long answer to a simple question.

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on July 04, 2009, 11:06:59 AM
Consider this as an option for the porch beam that doesn't rely on the shear of the bolts.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg166%2Fjraabe%2Fporchbeam.jpg&hash=960d01a6cddd4e0866c743445fad2c563410b81f)

(This sketch based on the  wrap around deck and porch plans (Sht. 6) for the 20' wide 1-1/2 story cottage (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/50.html).)
Title: Re: Porch design help needed
Post by: PEG688 on July 04, 2009, 11:07:41 AM




I'm building a 8' deep covered porch on the front side of the house, and have a few design questions.

I'm planning on using continuous 4x6 posts from the footings to the porch roof.  I would then bolt a 2x8 onto each side of the posts for the floor joists to rest on.  From what I've read this is not allowed by code, they want you to notch the posts or have the beam sit on top of the posts. 


  Humm, I don't think your idea would be a issue, I'd thru bolts the 2x8's , your just looking at deck load here so that would be workable down at the deck level.  If it's a code build the building dept will let you know if this meets code in your area. If they have a issue with the two 2x8, thru bolt a beam on the inside of the posts. I really think the double 2x8 would be excepted.

   Doing it that way, I would them have to use some kind of brackets to then attach a second post to go up to the roof?

  Your continuous post would be the better way.  

   Doesn't seem as strong to me.  ???  What am I missing here?

  It the top a beam might be a better idea if your in a snow load area. For a couple of reasons

  #1:  a beam will take more weight.

  #2:  You'll have a easier time getting solid bearing from rafter to beam with one surface , the beam top , to attach to.

 Use H-1's to tie both your floor joist and your rafters to the beams.

 
  (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strongtie.com%2Fgraphics%2Fproducts%2Flarge%2F155a-2008.gif&hash=13a728cdd6dae9ef97ef22e6f6c57a4b3118428a)



 


I was also thinking that it would be better not to have the shed roof over the porch tie directly into the house roof.  My thinking is that in high winds the porch roof has a lot higher chance of getting blown off, and if I have it tied into the house roof it will also take that roof with it. 


  Is it ok to attach the high end of the shed roof to a ledger board bolted to the side of the house?

   Sure lag bolt a 2x10 to each stud , two per stud , all the way across , two lags into each stud , per drill to prevent splitting the studs.

   Lay out your rafters so the miss the studs , or let in flush every lag bolt head and use this hanger to attach your rafters to the ledger,

  (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strongtie.com%2Fgraphics%2Fproducts%2Flarge%2F074d-2009.gif&hash=57a3deae838ed8e1948d36c53f21c34f768bc338)

   



b]

Thanks for any help on this.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2Fporchcopy.jpg&hash=1c1050b35bba145f339b2edb4936f892a618f888)




 G/L PEG
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: PEG688 on July 04, 2009, 11:12:17 AM


Consider this as an option for the porch beam that doesn't rely on the shear of the bolts.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg166%2Fjraabe%2Fporchbeam.jpg&hash=960d01a6cddd4e0866c743445fad2c563410b81f)



 How much shear have we got on a exterior deck? Whats the shear strength of two 5/8" or 1/2 " galv. thru bolts?

 I think his method would work , whether it's code pass-able I don't know.

 The knotch you drew would work as well ,    IF   ,   he used 6x6 instead of the 4x6's he mentioned.

 

 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: PEG688 on July 04, 2009, 11:18:10 AM


You might take a look at this thread. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1418.0 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1418.0)



 Nice to see this threads been useful.  [cool]
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on July 04, 2009, 11:32:26 AM
PEG: I agree that the shear force is unlikely to exceed the strength of the bolts (I show 2 - 5/8" lags) and the post needs to be a 6x6. (You may find that the square 6x6 also looks better.) Local code may require a bearing notch but either method is likely to be fine structurally, especially for a near grade deck. Things get more serious for a high deck or 2nd level - both at the beams and at the ledger.

PS - PEG's visual tutorial on notching is very helpful (see link above).
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: PEG688 on July 04, 2009, 12:05:48 PM

 Ya  a 6x6 would be a better post choice in this case.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 04, 2009, 12:16:56 PM
Just a note from some things I have banging around in the cobwebs upstairs.

The shear on the bolts is much greater than the fiber stress of the wood will support.  As I recall the 1/2 or 5/8 lags support around 500 lbs or a bit more each allowable due to fiber stress on the wood.  Shear on the bolts is likely in the area of 8 to 10,000 lbs each.

Fiber stress on an inch and a half notch in a stud should allow around 1500 lbs.  These are just rule of thumb numbers I keep in my head -- likely stretching capacities a bit as I round them up and wood types vary.  

Please feel free to correct me if these numbers are way off or you know the correct ones. :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 04, 2009, 04:11:01 PM
The 2x8's bolted on the posts is prohibited, I imagine you're remembering the detail with the circle and slash through it showing that from DCA6. That document is being picked up nationally, and its just bad practice, you're asking to split the beams. You could stand a 2x6 under them to the footing as long as they were well nailed to the 4x6. That would be the strongest option IMO. You can also mount hangers on the sides of the posts, the kind with the ears turned in and run the beams from post to post. That gets done in post frame sometimes, don't care for that one though.

(Glenn, Whitlock, thats a thought too, weld em up with the angle turned in next time, bolts and ears hidden, less obvious  ;))

A 1/2 bolt through a 4x with a 2x on each side, in SYP, loaded perp to side member grain, wet service, is good for 559 lbs/bolt. 5/8 bolts are good for 788 lbs per bolt. If we call the deck load 50 psf and if you had a pair of 1/2" bolts then 1118/50= 22.36 square feet could bear on that connection. Add some weathering...
here's the link to the connection calc set up for the 1/2" bolt described;
http://awc.org/calculators/connections/ccstyle.asp?design_method=ASD&connection_type=Lateral+loading&fastener_types=Bolt&loading_scenario=Double+Shear&mm_type=Southern+Pine&mm_thickness=3.5&mm_thickness_text=&theta_angle_mm=0&sm_type=Southern+Pine&sm_thickness=1.5&sm_thickness_text=&theta_angle_sm=90&fast_dia=0.5&load_duration=1.0&wet_svc_factor=0.7&temperature=1.0&submit2_LBD=Calculate+Connection+Capacity

Lets calc bearing on a notch or the end of a 2x6. We're worried about crushing the side grain of the 2x8 on the notch here;
#2 SYP compression perp to grain is 565 psi, wet service = 565 x .67=378.55 psi allowed
1.5" X 5.5" X 378.55=3123 lbs
Divide that by 50 psf=62.46 square feet allowed on that one notch, double that if you bear both rims. So if you either notch them in or stand 2x6's up under each 2x8 you bolted through the allowable load goes from 1118 lbs to 6246 lbs. Add weathering induced checks, no strength problems.

Well, Glenn asked  :)

If you have some blocking mounted between studs above the upper floor and bolted the ledger to them rather than weakening the studs I'd be happier but that's getting into my opinion not code.

Never cheap out or underbuild a deck or porch, they cause deaths about monthly, failures weekly. We were shown slide after slide of failed decks and railings that caused massive injuries and deaths, almost always family and friends, usually at a party, wedding or funeral.

One thing that would work here at the house side is to simply mount joist hangers to the lower treated beam. Then there is no ledger hanging on something the beam is supported from posts under it. A step and landing at the door, and a shorter flight of steps to grade. Just a thought.

Glenn, one more, you got me curious. minimum yield on bolt steel is 45,000 psi. 1/2" bolt... pi *R^2 *45000=8831 lbs bending yield strength. I couldn't find a top link pin last week while moving some rocks, used a bolt, it looks like a pretzel  :D. But you're right, although it yielded, the steel doesn't fail till way up there, the wood is without a doubt the weak link.

Oh notch in a stud, dry use .. SPF is only 425 psi 1.5x1.5x425=956 lbs. DF/SYP would get up to around 1200 lbs in dry use, wet wood crushes at 2/3 what dry wood does.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 04, 2009, 10:04:33 PM
Thanks for taking the time to do the numbers, Don, and it looks like I may not kill myself with my rule of thumb numbers at that. 

I'm really a steel guy and a bit of a lazy one at that but in general know enough about strengths to make myself dangerous.

I found that in working on Caterpillars, if I welded the grade 8 bolts onto the machine to hold guards they would break off easier than a soft bolt which yielded and bent rather than fail.  How that applies to this discussion I don't know - but thought I would throw it out there anyway. :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 05, 2009, 03:06:39 AM
One way it relates. People oftentimes want to frame with screws. Most screws are hardened to some extent so that the heads don't strip out while you're driving them. Instead of a ductile failure, which is what you want, bending and slowly failing, they just snap, a brittle failure, no warning, not good. My helper figured that one out when he screwed some toeboards up on the roof, Whee!
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 05, 2009, 07:49:03 AM
Thanks Guys!

I had to read thru it all a couple times to process all the info.  :o

I'll go with the 6x6 posts, I wanted to avoid them just because they are such a PITA to cut, but it looks like they are what I need.
For the roof I do the same thing as the floor?  Notch the posts and bolt in the doubled up 2x8's?


I found a ton of info on the web for regular deck design, but couldn't find anything for one with a roof over it.  d*
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 05, 2009, 08:57:28 AM
One old design you might find on some of the land grant university ag plans is the post notched on each side to accept the roof carry beam and 2x material ripped the same width as the remaining width of the notched post, 2-1/2". This is nailed between the beams alongside each rafter and protrude above the beam to nail to each rafter or truss. There's your hurricane tie. It would work below for the deck too if you go that route. Spacing those members can be a bee and bird concern though.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 05, 2009, 03:46:29 PM
Backtrack warning;
You had asked a couple of days ago what I meant when I mentioned a horizontal beam to help reinforce the tall gable wall. We've asked a few homeowners if we could build them a plant shelf on the gable wall ;) This helps to stiffen a tall wall. see if this pic makes sense;
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx109%2Fwindyhilll%2Fhorizontalbeam.jpg&hash=cd28bdb55b1155deebdcf1a6e0a97db228354511)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 05, 2009, 04:46:12 PM
Backtrack warning;
You had asked a couple of days ago what I meant when I mentioned a horizontal beam to help reinforce the tall gable wall. We've asked a few homeowners if we could build them a plant shelf on the gable wall ;) This helps to stiffen a tall wall. see if this pic makes sense;
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx109%2Fwindyhilll%2Fhorizontalbeam.jpg&hash=cd28bdb55b1155deebdcf1a6e0a97db228354511)


Thanks Don, makes perfect sense now... a picture really is worth a thousand words!  [cool]

I like the old school hurricain ties too.  I've got more time than money, so ripping some 2x4's sounds a lot better than giving more of my cash to Simpson!  ;D

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: csiebert on July 10, 2009, 05:29:31 AM
I cant tell from the picture, but you might want to use Pressure Treated Plywood for your plumbing box.  I did a similar thing with 1/2" CBX and it went about 14 inches below grade and the plywood de-laminated and edges were rotted in about 5 months.  Replaced it with 5/8" PT plywood and after a year, its holding up just fine.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 10, 2009, 06:04:45 PM
I used PT 2x4's and PT 3/4 plywood, so hopefully it should last a few years.  ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 10, 2009, 06:22:23 PM
You could also use "concrete backer board" .  I think it would last about as long as anything else.  Besides it would be impervious to insects.  You could also sparay foam the interior for some frost or freeze protection.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on July 10, 2009, 06:27:45 PM
Don_P

Great plant-shelf wall stiffener! A tall gable wall may face the view and be made mostly of windows - This is especially true of vacation homes from the 1970's. In a storm those window walls can flex and drum in a pretty frightening way.

Your horizontal beam could stabilize that wall and serve as an indirect lighting trough, bookshelf or any number of uses. Cuts way down on the flexing too! :D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 11, 2009, 07:53:14 AM
We are a decade or two behind the times  :D. This is another wall stiffening scheme. I stood up steel plate in a pair of columns that flanked the center stack of windows in a tall window wall.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx109%2Fwindyhilll%2FMVC-001F-1.jpg&hash=a27f5afbb020609887f22ac9abe21bea6f7903e9)
This was a log wall below with a big hole in the wall and stick framing above. I got some 10x10 timbers and put one on top of the log wall between the windows and door to act as my "plate" then stick framed above it. I've also bolted large beams inside of a regular stick framed wall like the plant shelf drawn above. Just a few more ways to stiffen things.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwindyhilllogworks.com%2FOvens_files%2Flrinside.jpg&hash=f4db3587f48aff829a95290f2288db8cb9de6fc4)

The plumbing chases here can become termite highways, its a good place to dump some boric acid or similar, lime would probably even do it.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: poppy on July 11, 2009, 08:10:58 AM
I have been a little concerned about how to efficiently stiffen my high gable walls, since the loft does not extend to either end.

Thanks for the ideas, Don.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on July 11, 2009, 10:15:26 AM
Since I am in earthquake country some of my custom home designs have incorporated welded steel moment frames (these stiffen and absorb shear in walls with lots of openings). I'm sure Glenn has made many of these.

They certainly work well but are for the most part custom designed, and custom fabricated. My engineer at the time was just out of employment at Boeing and loved these things. I'm sure the home owner spent an extra $10-12k and the builder would have rather worked with wood, but nobody worries when the wind blows in off the ocean.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 11, 2009, 01:49:50 PM
I have done tons of moment frames that were designed by engineers.  One  4.5 million $ cabin - with moment frames hidden inside of 2 to 3' diameter logs. d*

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd184%2Fglennkangiser%2Flogembededmomentframes.jpg&hash=07c4c2c0e4213bcbb4ce7b6ce3c888dd4b48c81a)


There were many in the above cabin.

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on July 11, 2009, 06:00:51 PM
And it all looks so casual and rustic! :D :D ;)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 11, 2009, 07:32:17 PM
Ain't it quaint, what you can make out of a few logs. d*
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 11, 2009, 07:39:26 PM
Ain't it quaint, what you can make out of a few logs. d*

...and only 4.5 million dollars!  [shocked]

It is VERY cool looking though Glenn!  [cool]
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 13, 2009, 05:21:05 PM
Raised the east wall tonight!
It's even plumb and square.  ;D

This is the first framing I've done, so I took the time to draw it all out on paper first.  I figure it's a lot cheaper to screw it up on paper than it is to mess up with the wood.
It actually worked out pretty good when it came to to frame.  I didn't have to think at all, just look at the plans.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7110001.jpg&hash=199273f684c85e5e28696e8007aadf4431f90aca)



I'm using 10' sidewalls...they look a lot taller than I thought they would.  The top plate is 15' off the ground now.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7130005.jpg&hash=6e01c9be6a5ad49cb241e6002c57f254baf66919)


I'm hoping to have the rest of the walls up by the end of the weekend.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 19, 2009, 04:47:45 PM
I had help this weekend and was able to get a lot done.  [cool]


Using the router to cut the notches for the 1x6 that will hold the loft floor joists.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7150002.jpg&hash=adf536f48fd4a4f632a30ecd1b3ed9d93c45ed5b)


Raising the south wall.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7180005.jpg&hash=108e190696d5fa39dfe0bd2d67e1a609a71d8aac)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPierBrackets20090718_06.jpg&hash=e176c891c0605d86d7385076426cb4296689fc3c)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPierBrackets20090718_10.jpg&hash=0ad194611f6b44f6caf460d7f3bd464c95c85cea)



All the walls are up!  I still have to add the fire blocking on the rake walls, and put in the ledger board on the west wall.  Also debating on adding a window to the south wall. 
It's exciting to have the walls up...starting to actually feel like a house!  ;D


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7190001.jpg&hash=a22eec59847df244b44d83549963ca6eac3b0991)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7190005.jpg&hash=31c6bb43298b1ff3914752d17676ed28fef6944c)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: secordpd on July 20, 2009, 08:45:03 AM
Glad to see your moving along Beavers  [cool], I enjoy watching your updates....  It's nice having help!  I like how you framed your gable ends with a notch for your ridge beam...good job -good idea..
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 21, 2009, 02:09:47 PM
Thanks for the compliments secordpd!



Here's a cost update on the house so far. 
I've saved every reciept so I can get my 10% tax credit this year. [cool]

Total so far- $1343.70

Would be really great to keep the total cost of the house under 5k...have to see how it goes.
I gave up on trying to estimate future costs, I'm always way low!  d*
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 25, 2009, 07:52:41 AM
I've decided I want to use timber frame construction for the covered front porch.  I wanted to try making a joint to see how difficult it would be, and if timber framing would be fun.

I don't have a large framing chisel, so I cheated and used a router to hog out most of the wood then finished up with my small chisel.
Turns out, that you've got to have pretty tight tolerances for this kind of work.  I think the most I'm off is a 1/8" making the joint very loose.  d*

I got a chunk of nice straight grained ash from the firewood pile to make the peg.  I split off a section and rounded it down using a drawknife and spokeshave. 

I ended up with a sloppy loose fitting joint, but it was fun and let me know what I need to work on.
I've got a bunch of scrap 4x6 from the house foundation, so I'm going to keep on practicing.

I promised my wife that I'll get the house done before I start working on the porch.  I'd end up getting side tracked, and by fall would have a great looking timber framed porch, but no house to go with it.  ;D



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7250011.jpg&hash=48bce3727851bf153c7bcfc71c2654704e917c59)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: poppy on July 25, 2009, 08:51:42 AM
That joint is a little deep there Beavers, but hey it's just practice.

I'm glad to see that you have been inspired to do some timber framing.  It is not a lost art yet. [cool]
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 26, 2009, 04:49:20 PM
That joint is a little deep there Beavers, but hey it's just practice.

I'm glad to see that you have been inspired to do some timber framing.  It is not a lost art yet. [cool]

I'm just flying blind on the timber framing right now...got to order a couple of those books that you recommended, so I can figure out what the hell I'm doing.  ;D

Just got myself a 2" framing chisel off Ebay, it's an Ohio Tool Company one.  The little info I could find on the company says they were in business from 1823-1920, and in the early days used inmate labor from the Ohio State Pen.  Most of my hand tools are were made when my Grandpa was a boy.  I've actually been using my 1930's Disston D-8 for most of my framing.  I like using the old tools and wondering about all the history they have.  Now with the framing chisel I can put the noisy router away!  ;D



I ended up getting more work done today than I thought.  It was hot out and I wasn't too motivated to do much.  I framed the bathroom, and got the loft floor joists installed.

I didn't bother to draw out a paper plan for the bathroom framing like I did for the rest of the house.  It's just a bathroom, and the walls aren't load bearing...I can't screw this up.
You can see the result... I cut the studs on the one wall 5 1/2" short.  d*


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7260002.jpg&hash=a5c683963cc75ef973d6a7a1485254c4f02c6464)



I decided to enlarge the bathroom a little.  I figured that a couple of extra inches in the living room wouldn't make much difference, It's still tiny.
On the other hand a couple extra inches in the bathroom pushed it from tiny, to a decent size.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7260009.jpg&hash=f290927073046428fdd005d2ffe423bc6ef6ac3a)



I threw some temporary planks down on the loft floor, It's going to have 2x6 T&G flooring, but I want to wait until it's dried in to put that down.  Walking around up there, the head room isn't as bad as I thought it would be.  With the dormers on each side it should feel pretty open.

I made a run to the lumber yard today, and got all the wood for the rafters as well.  Hope to have the roof framed by the end of next weekend.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7260006.jpg&hash=1f536ee1ffdc283fa90c8fa1717aa67844687e4c)



Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: mountainmomma on July 29, 2009, 09:15:13 AM
Nice job on the cabin. I myself have been living in a 12x 16 log cabin without any running water for about 6 years now and for the last five, I've been sharing it with my beau, my dog and our two cats. It absolutly doable. Its cozy but will get you motivated to work on the 16x26.  :D We are actually in the process of building a 16x26 two story house.

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 30, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
Nice job on the cabin. I myself have been living in a 12x 16 log cabin without any running water for about 6 years now and for the last five, I've been sharing it with my beau, my dog and our two cats. It absolutly doable. Its cozy but will get you motivated to work on the 16x26.  :D We are actually in the process of building a 16x26 two story house.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks mountainmama.

It's nice to hear that others have found that small of space livable.  Also nice to know I'm not the only "crazy" one out there!  ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: poppy on July 30, 2009, 03:57:33 PM
Nice find on the chisel, Beavers.  I like the old tools also.  Being an Ohio guy, I appreciate the history story.

I have bought some decent chisels at auctions, but I missed the last auction that specialized in old tools.  I still need a better/bigger broad ax.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 30, 2009, 05:12:31 PM
There's alot of good info on the TF Guild's website.

http://www.tfguild.org/pubpg.html

Download "Historic American Timber Joinery" first, then the Truss and Steeple pdf's. The red and green books are good if you want to go further in that direction. Jim Rogers who posts there frequently is a purveyor of old tools, I've dealt with him several times and have always been very pleased.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on July 30, 2009, 05:14:38 PM
Managed to get the ridge beam hoisted into place the with some help from my wife.  The beam is three 16 foot 2x12's, even lifting one 2x12 at a time is was still tricky getting it 21 feet off the ground.

After getting the ridge beam into place I had to start on fixing my big mistake...

I've planned on having a cathedral ceilling in the house from the start.  I've been reading up on each stage of building as I get to it, and haven't really worried about what's down the road until I get to that stage.  Anyway...I got to the roof framing stage, and discovered that using a ridge beam, my gable walls would be load bearing.  With my snow load here in Nebraska my ridge beam would need to be able to support over 5000 lbs., so each end of the beam would have over 2500 lbs. pushing down on it.  I over built and used 2x12's for the floor joists, but they don't even come close to being able to support that kind of load.  d*

I only ran two rows of piers and don't have anything to take the load of the ridge beam underneath the gable walls.  I got a lot of great advise in another thread on how to fix the problem.  I didn't want to mess around with trying to add a pier under the center of each gable wall.  (what I should of done to begin with)

I decided to do a variation on DonP's "plant shelf" that stiffens the balloon framed gable wall, and combine it with a beam that would take the roof load from the ridge beam and trasnfer it out to the walls and down to the piers.

The beam is made of three 2x12's laminated together.  The ends of the beam rest on the let-in 1x6 ledger that also supports the loft joists.  I also added jack studs under the ends.

Overbuilt...maybe???  All I know is that it will make me sleep better at night, plus framing lumber is cheap...the extra lumber adds up to less than $100.  Cheap insurance IMO!


The red lines show how I envision the load path will go.  Does that look right?



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7300018.jpg&hash=96ac261aac25a2ec11dbbd59efa1057bbe0dfd6e)


Here's a view from the inside.  I'll cover the post with some 1x to make it look a little nicer, since it will be exposed.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7300015.jpg&hash=2be06bf01d142b8125fff4cc391aa49c6ef2fdc1)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on July 31, 2009, 12:49:04 PM
You're plenty good there, I must have overstated, just didn't want a wider house getting into trouble. Another thing to be conscious of when putting a heavy load on a post or beam or ledger, check to see that it won't crush into one or the other. SPF is good for 425 psi in side grain compression, it looks like you've stuck adequate support under it.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 02, 2009, 12:48:39 PM
Don,

I've got a full 3 1/2" of wood under each end of the 2x12 beam. 
Thanks for the tip on the Timber Framers Guild...ton of great info there! 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 05, 2009, 02:35:42 PM
I've been working the last few days on the roof, and it's been kicking my ass!  d*

I'm a surveyor, and I'm usually pretty good at using math to figure out angles and distances, but figuring out this roof has been tough.
I spend a lot of my time standing there... ??? ??? ???...usually followed by... d* d* d*...after I screw up a measurement.


Anyway, here is what I've managed to get done so far.  



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP8050003-1.jpg&hash=2c0fc48329bc6f7d53c3e720f8fc4ed1492918a5)



Here is the view from the west dormer.  I'm glad I decided to put in the dormers, it's going to open the loft up a bunch, and give some very  needed headroom.



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Here is a shot of one of the rafters on the dormer.  It looks like it fits right, but I'm not sure if birdsmouth should extend inside the top plate like that?
Do I have something screwed up?



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Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on August 08, 2009, 06:34:18 PM
Ruh Roh,
No the birdsmouth cannot extend in past the inside of the plate. Lowering the sidewalls would be one solution. At that span it isn't going to fail though. Also typically the rafters bear fully against the ridgebeam or sit fully on it.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 09, 2009, 06:56:34 AM
I think I've got my ridgebeam too high. I forgot to take into account that the rafters will be sitting on top of it, and that's throwing all my cuts off.

I've been able to find almost no info in using a ridge beam instead of a ridge board.  The only thing I was able to find shows notching the rafter to sit on the beam, and then using a plywood gusset to tie the opposing rafters to each other.

For future reference (when I build the bigger house) what is the correct way to frame this?

Do the rafters have to sit on top of the beam?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 09, 2009, 02:52:57 PM
While working on the house today I noticed a problem.  One of the piers is now 1/2" out of plumb.  I took the time to make sure they were all dead nuts plumb when I started, so I know that it's shifted. 

I pulled a stringline using the original stakes and it looks like the bottom end of it has kicked in, the top of the pier looks like it's in the same spot.  Is my footing sinking and tilting to one side???

I went ahead and added an extra angle brace to the corner piers.  I though I had braced the hell out of this house, but I guess not.

If it stops leaning at this point I'll be fine with leaving it.  If it keeps on tilting...any ideas on how to fix it? 

I think I'm going to make a mark on all the piers, and shoot the elevation to them every week or two.  I'll be able to spot any other sinking or tilting piers then.

You can see in the pic the the string line and how far it's shifted.


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Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on August 09, 2009, 03:16:48 PM
Strange!

Even if your pier was built on poor soil and was settling it would be much more likely to sink rather than tilt.

• What are the footings and the soil under the posts?
• Was this the same on all piers?
• Are any of the other piers leaning or tilting?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 09, 2009, 03:55:08 PM
John,

The holes were all made with a 12" auger, and they are all around 36" deep.  I poured about 8" of concrete into the bottom of each of the holes, and then set my posts on top of that.  None of the other posts show any kind of movement.

The USDA says this area is a silty clay loam, or something like that.  I've noticed in my digging of the piers for the other house that there are very different types of soil at different depths.  One layer will be a more mucky sticky clay, and then you hit a more sandy clay that is MUCH harder.  The sandy clay stays very hard even when soaked with rain, the mucky clay just turn muckier.  The change in soil was around the 3-4' deep mark.


Think it's possible that the one footing is sitting half on the mucky clay and half on the sandy clay, and that the mucky side is sinking causing the footing to tilt, and the pier to move in at the bottom???  (Just a wild ass guess on my part)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on August 09, 2009, 04:23:39 PM
That is a wild one... ???

It sounds like the platform is still square and level, yes? I don't think the footing could tilt as it would take a great deal of tilting AND SINKING to produce that much movement. Doing so would have to drop the post height and dip the platform.

I think it's more likely that you have a post that is going "Snuffy Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snuffy_Smith)" on you - bowing out in the middle but staying put at the top and bottom. I have one on my garage that bowed more than an inch out of plumb. No harm done, its been there for 25 years with no settling of floors or the roof above it.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 09, 2009, 05:09:11 PM
Thanks for the quick help John!

I didn't check for square, but the subfloor is still level.  They are only 4x6 posts, and the thin side is the one that's showing out of plumb.  The 5 1/2" axis is still perfectly plumb.  Would be great if it's only bowing out in the middle, maybe the extra brace I added today will keep from bowing more.

You are right it would take a lot of tilting of the footing, along with a sliding of the bottom of the post to get out of plumb like that.  A bowing post is really does make the most sense now that I think more about it.   d*
 

I'll keep checking the posts and see if anything else moves down the road. 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on August 10, 2009, 04:23:45 PM
What does the post across from it look like? You do need to brace the building in both directions so it doesn't end up looking like the shed in the background. It can't go out of square with the floor diaphragm but it can be tipping the posts over, the post on the other side will tell you if that is going on.
Edit: Rereading I see the other posts are plumb, I'd agree, it would about have to be just that post bowing if the opposite one is plumb.
 
Back to the roof;
You can either bear against the ridgebeam or rest on it. If hanging off the face, some type of adequate connection or hanger is needed. I've normally hung off the face of ridgebeams, I can only recall sitting on top of one. Looking at the second and third pics in your previous set the rafter appears to be parallell to the dormer gable top plates, so the angle appears to be correct. It looks as though a 3-1/2" birdsmouth would sit the rafter on top of the ridge. You do need 1-1/2" bearing so if you do that it needs a plate bevelled for each side on top. Doesn't look like that would work with the main roof height though. I wouldn't notch more than 1/4 depth of the rafter if you notch to set up on the ridge.

This calc should give you the height to set the ridge if you want it to plane in on the bottom of the plumb cut, face hung. You can adjust from there, or just use it to check your math if you want. http://windyhilllogworks.com/Calcs/ridgehgtclc.htm

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 10, 2009, 06:58:41 PM
Yeah the old shed does lean just a little!

The post across from the one is still plumb.  I'm bracing the other corners just like the one that I took the pic of.  The beam sitting on the piers wasn't perfectly straight, it was a little bowed.  Maybe that one end pier is getting more of the weight than the others causing it to bow?  ???

I guess I thought that with a ridge beam the rafters had to sit on top of the beam.  The double birdsmouth thing is one of the things that has been tripping me up.  On the dormer the ridge beam is only 3" so I notched the top of the rafter 1 1/2" and then made a 3 1/2" notch on the bottom...doesn't fit.  To make it fit I end up with the birdsmouth inside the top plate.  Thanks for the link to your calculator I'll check it out.

Face hanging the rafters sounds like it would solve a lot of the confusion I've had.  Have to go that route on the bigger house.  [cool]

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on August 11, 2009, 12:22:43 PM
I doubt that load is causing the post to bow, not to mention the load right now is diddly. Posts are usually made from core wood and there are bands of fibers within that juvenile wood that often shrink lengthwise. If there is a band of duller than normal looking grain on the concave face then as it shrank lengthwise it pulled the post into a bow, just like stringing a longbow. Happens less on 6x6's than 4x's but can happen on any stick of wood.

This is a scan from "Graphic Guide to Frame Construction", John has it on the book page and it is worth putting on the bookshelf. Instead of the "frieze blocked" face mount option I've used hangers or framing angles and straps over the top for that detail. In heavy timber it goes to through bolts, I've never been there but it goes to split rings and bolts at heavier loads in heavy timber.
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Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: drainl on August 12, 2009, 08:13:24 AM
THanks for posting this chart Don!  Helpful in the next of our project as well!
 :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 20, 2009, 03:26:03 PM
I had help last weekend and we got all the wall sheeting up except on the gable ends.  I'm really glad I had the help, I don't think there is anyway I would of been able to hoist those sheets up on my own!


The router worked real slick for cutting out the door and window openings.  


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Here is what we got done last Saturday,  I took about 8 hours...I was actually surprised at how fast it went up.


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On Sunday my wife and I started with the tar paper on the walls.  We got as high as we could without the scaffolding.  I still need it inside for working on the roof framing, as soon as that is done we can move it outside and finish up with the tar paper.

I'm hoping to have the rest of the roof framing done and have the roof sheeted by next weekend.  Getting really close to dried in...can't wait!  ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 20, 2009, 03:43:47 PM
I spent tonight working on my timber framing skills.  I'm going to build a timber frame porch and roof on the house.  My first try at a timber frame joint turned out like crap, it was sloppy and didn't fit well at all.  

I found a project that will be very useful down the road that also gives me the chance to practice my joinery.  I'm building a set of timber frame saw horses.  A standard height saw horse is too high for comfortable use with a hand saw or chisel.  These will be much shorter, and should be a lot better to work off of, not to mention more heavy duty.

For timbers I got some cheap 6x6 PT landscaping timbers from the lumberyard.



Here is start of one of the mortises that will house one of the legs.
I hogged out most of the wood using the bit and brace.


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Here is the mortise after being finished with the 2" chisel, and the tenon for one of the legs.

The chisel is a new to me 100 plus year old chisel that I got off ebay for cheap.  [cool]


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The joint is still far from perfect, but it's way tighter than the last one I tried.  The sawhorses will be good practice, and I might even be able to make a half way presentable joint by the time I'm done with them.  :o
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Sassy on August 21, 2009, 03:51:02 PM
Good progress on the house!  Those will probably be the best saw horses around  8)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on August 22, 2009, 07:24:27 PM
Thanks Sassy.  ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on October 04, 2009, 02:28:11 PM
It's been a while since I posted, and I haven't got much done in the meantime.

I started a new project at work and have been swamped, and working a ton of overtime.  Before I had time to build, but no money... now I have money to build, but no time.  d*

To get back on track and get this thing dried in, I hired a neighbor who is a contractor to finish up the roof for me.  Should have a roof on the place in the next week or two depending on how busy he is.  I really wanted to be able to say I built the entire house on my own, but it's almost winter and I need to get dried in quick.

I have been able to make some progress though.

Got the log siding delivered last week.  It was on sale and only ended being a couple hundred bucks more than the plywood/board and batten look I was planning on. 
I'm glad we decided to spend the extra $ I'm really happy with how it looks!  ;D


We are putting on one coat of sealant before installing the siding.  Here is the finishing crew at work.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPA040004.jpg&hash=7fe65faac9f2162ba379f704adf2d2c82f37c845)


Doors and windows installed.  The door was a $250 door I got on clearance for $99...was a discontinued model.  [cool]

The steps are just temporary until I get the porch built.

I also picked up some more scaffolding at an auction.  It's great to not have to mess around with ladders.



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Got the siding up on one wall.  The company that makes the siding sells a 2 1/4" thick trim, and they only want over a dollar a foot for it!  :o  I said no thanks, and decided to use just standard 2 x.  Looks just fine IMO.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPA040015.jpg&hash=654d0a4d34104d2be6195a236a417b8ca12e1d3b)


Close up of the siding after three coats of finish. 


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Scored big time on Craigslist last week.  Guy just moved into his half a million dollar house and decided he didn't want the kitchenette in the basement.  Got a full set of custom made solid oak cabinets for $115!  [cool]  They will fit perfect in a 12x16 house.




Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on October 18, 2009, 04:06:49 PM
My neighbor does good work.  He finished framing the roof and got it sheeted in three days!  Would of taken me a month to get it done, and wouldn't of looked nearly as nice.  Cost me $800 in labor, but it was well worth it IMO.


I had help from my step-dad, and father in law today.  We got the rest of the tar paper on, the gable ends sheeted, and the rest of the windows in. 


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPA180017.jpg&hash=189efd278ba1ce18cdd37a9871fc49f709f11c1a)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPA180435.jpg&hash=1d3b9c43e6efd33f7d3f294f4b2dd59b954e484c)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPA180026.jpg&hash=879da0f605d06f3e177115aa5dfc0ff90f359a1b)



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Here are a couple of pics from in the loft.  It actually seems bigger inside with the sheeting on.  ???


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPA180019.jpg&hash=20391433cb74b9cb605549d975184acfe46544ac)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPA180025.jpg&hash=b73435d9b43a59394650570ad5758888a379f048)



Here we are just happy to finally be dried in.


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I've got a couple of electricians stopping by this week to get bids ready.  Also found a local roofer who isn't too busy at that moment and will do the shingles for $200 labor.  I'm more than happy to spend $200 to avoid having to mess around on a steep roof over 20' in the air.  ;D

Total spent to this date... $5822.85
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Redoverfarm on October 18, 2009, 04:17:35 PM
Looking good Beavers.  I think the dormers open up the loft area to make it larger than it actually would have been without them. Smart move.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Sassy on October 18, 2009, 04:49:23 PM
Great progress!  I like the siding you are using - and the dormers.   8)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Bobmarlon on October 18, 2009, 06:22:53 PM
Framing looks awesome bro,  IT will be a shame to cover it up!
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: bayview on October 19, 2009, 10:44:31 AM


   You have done a great job!  That roof looks sturdy!  I like the way the dormers look both inside and out . . .


/
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on October 19, 2009, 03:04:17 PM
Thanks for the compliments!   ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Yonderosa on October 20, 2009, 07:38:17 AM
Very cool project.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: John Raabe on October 20, 2009, 10:27:17 AM
This is turning out to be a great little house project.

Handsome and sturdy...  :D :D :D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on October 20, 2009, 03:12:04 PM
Thanks guys!  :)

We planned on just slapping this house together as cheaply and quickly as possible, just to have something to live in while we build the bigger house.

Along the way though, we discovered one of the major benefits of building a little house...it's small.

That means that you can afford the more expensive siding and the $4 a square foot hardwood floors.  Could I afford to put maple floors in a 2000 sq. ft. house?  No way...but in a 200 sq. ft. house I can.  ;D

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on November 22, 2009, 02:56:52 PM
Well progress is still agonizingly slow, but we are slowly but surely getting there.  :)

The roof is now on, and the siding is done on the front and back of the house.


Here is the back of the house, still have to finish the dormer.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPB220040.jpg&hash=7a9da4da2804c36e686b00d714bc3f6d63fe9f5c)



The front...the 2x8 is the ledger for the porch roof.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPB220035.jpg&hash=25ff088bd3da18ec4feb542dd0f0a91637740097)



I used 1/4" birch plywood for the soffits. 



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPB220043.jpg&hash=df8ce027db8466598e41c76b1ba53cc56ebaeac7)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FPB220044.jpg&hash=b430e81122aa58258201e78cba43f2f4417f1832)


I'm just excited to be almost done with the exterior work.  We've had great weather, and I sure that it can't continue.  Just more motivation to hurry up and get the outside work done!  ;D


Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Redoverfarm on November 22, 2009, 03:33:55 PM
Looks really nice Beavers.  The porch will really make a dramatic statement when added.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: MountainDon on November 22, 2009, 04:16:24 PM
Very very nice Beavers.  :D 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: ScottA on November 22, 2009, 04:22:25 PM
And here I thought my house was small.  ??? Nice work you guys. Looks great!  :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on November 22, 2009, 06:51:52 PM
Thanks, appreciate the compliments!  :)


I am anxious to see how much the porch changes the look of the house.  I'm planning on using timber frame construction...but I promised my wife I would wait until the rest of the house was done before starting on the porch.  ::)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: lipadier on November 23, 2009, 02:34:22 PM
This little thing looks lovely, even without the porch.  [cool]
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: speedfunk on November 25, 2009, 08:51:24 AM
Awesome!!! You did a great job keeping it in scale .   All the dimensions balance them selfs very well.  GREAT project.  Maybe you should just live there.  Why move? 

VERY COOL!!
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: tinybuilder on November 25, 2009, 03:02:50 PM
Thanks guys!  :)

We planned on just slapping this house together as cheaply and quickly as possible, just to have something to live in while we build the bigger house.

Along the way though, we discovered one of the major benefits of building a little house...it's small.

That means that you can afford the more expensive siding and the $4 a square foot hardwood floors.  Could I afford to put maple floors in a 2000 sq. ft. house?  No way...but in a 200 sq. ft. house I can.  ;D

Your house is totally charming! I think it's the proportions of overall height, to the pitch of the roof, to the small footprint that make it so pleasing on the eyes.  My wife and I are doing exactly just the opposite of you. We built our main house first, and now are building a tiny house for my 88 year old Mom to live in.

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on November 25, 2009, 04:10:23 PM
Maybe you should just live there.  Why move? 


We'll see how it goes living such a small house...

Who knows, we might decide we like it!  ;D


tinybuilder, I checked out your photo's, your house looks great.  I really like the kitchen setup, thats a pretty slick design!
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on November 25, 2009, 06:31:20 PM
This is how one around here evolved, there are rooms under portions of the porch now.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx109%2Fwindyhilll%2F12x16hipped.jpg&hash=f8403ea077f42924b355144ecbfdeb4b9f8128ed)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: tinybuilder on November 25, 2009, 06:54:57 PM
Maybe you should just live there.  Why move? 


We'll see how it goes living such a small house...

Who knows, we might decide we like it!  ;D


tinybuilder, I checked out your photo's, your house looks great.  I really like the kitchen setup, thats a pretty slick design!


It is... I worked in a hotel that had those Acme kitchen units in the suites, and always thought they were a really cool idea of just one nice neat stainless combination appliance to install. One drawback is the sink is a little  shallow. But it's a standard size so a deeper one can easily be dropped in.

I bet your cozy house grows on you once you're living in it. (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb90%2Fcompost_bin%2Fsmile.gif&hash=c1346b4d14ce83a789181e33e12a78ec34b5da62)



Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: pocono_couple on February 23, 2010, 02:32:07 AM
Hi guys,
  thanks for putting the pics of your canoe on my page.. great job!    it looks like you find some neat places to camp as well... the canoe that i built a few years ago was a kit from newfound woodworking    in NH.   the kayak  is the coho model afrom pygmy boats out in washington.  I knew that I was going to be building the kayak so i casually mentioned in class one day that if anyone wanted to build a boat, I was going to be starting on a project and would help.  a student came up after class and said that he was interested.. and the rest is history..  we found a space on campus and built them side by side..   as it turned out.. i did not get a whole lot of help from him, and i built about 75% of his boat :)   but that is fine, it gave me lots of free experience with cedar strip construction!
 
my kayak was supposed to be finished bright, but some of the "planks" got water stained.. so i ended up painting it..

there are a couple of other boats that i have built sitting around the property..  one is a gloucester light dory that you can see by the shed.  that was a project that my son and i built.    he ended up moving back to NH and got a job for a while at newfound..   small world!

 after the house is done.. and a few more small boat projects,  I am hoping to build a boat that my wife and i can use to attempt the "great loop"  -  probably in the 28 foot range.. not sure of the hull type yet, but i am leaning towards a funky houseboat plan..

so, your house looks great!  lots of neat detail with the timber framing.. my uncle and i took a workshop on that years ago in western mass.  it was a lot of fun.. we built a 12 by 16 frame..  i would love to get back to that sometime..   work tends to get in the way of dreams, if you let it!    I am looking forward to seeing some more interior shots!     
I would love to chat more about boats.. keep in touch. 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on February 23, 2010, 02:07:41 PM
Thanks pocono,

I take my canoe up to the Boundary Waters in northern Minnesota quite a bit for canoe camping trips.  Not much paddling to do locally, so gotta make the drive up north.  :)

Sounds like you have a whole fleet of boats!
Had to google the great loop...that would be a hell of trip!  Guess that's one of the perks of being a teacher, you get the summers off, and have the time for an adventure like that.

Like you I have to concentrate on the house for now, haven't gotten much done this winter.  Once the house is done though, bring on the boat building!  ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: pocono_couple on February 23, 2010, 07:10:50 PM
the boundary waters - sounds like some great boating and camping there.  i had a friend who used to do a lot of big boat sailing, but he was convinced that the best boat for touring was a racing canoe..  i think that he did his honeymoon in a canoe in the boundary waters..  it takes a very special wife to make something like that happen!

we started building boats in NH when a friend went off to wooden boat school in maine and then came back and announced that he wanted to build a boat.. we got a few friends involved and had a great routine of getting together in his shop on friday evenings..  in a year or so, three of us had boats.  the design was DAISY  - i think that they still build them at wooden boat..  then i got some students together at my school and we built one for our school's auction.   after that, i helped a friend at another school build some six hour canoes with some students.   when i moved to PA ,  i built a six hour canoe with a student here.. that was my introduction to fiberglassing..  then we built the dory and the kayak and the canoe.. 

  in addition to another kayak, i also have the plans for  a pulling boat named firefly.. it is a pretty cool looking boat, and we could use it here on the susqhehana river..   wilkes barre is cleaning up the river front - they put in a nice park last year, and fixed up the boat launch on our side of the river..  so it would be nice to put this boat on the river in the early morning or early evening..   check it out  http://www.tsca.net/LostCoast/BuildingFirefly.html

  let me know when you get back to the house..  i will be anxious to see your pics..   
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 28, 2010, 05:12:34 PM
Well it's been a long winter without much progress made on the house.

I've finally got my butt in gear and have actually made some progress.
A few weeks ago I rented a bobcat to spread out the mountain of dirt I had left over from the 16x24 foundation.  Didn't get any pictures of that process, I was having way too much fun in the bobcat to stop for pic's.  ;D  Sure would be nice to own one...

Was able to get some pic's of me farming afterwords though.  I ran the disc over everything and then the harrow.  It did a nice job of getting everything nice and smooth and ready for grass seed.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP4110010.jpg&hash=66b8d90d9477200d926145c86706d534d612978b)



The bathroom is all roughed in and drywall up.  Should have it mudded and painted by this weekend.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP4280020.jpg&hash=310a5ca377ab325cc614b92cd360a4dc87d0a53a)


Also made some headway on the kitchen.  Drywall up and the cabinets in.  The cabinets represent my biggest Craigslist score ever!  Rich guy decided he didn't want the kitchenette in the basement of his huge house any more, so I got them for $100.  Custom made solid oak cabinets, counter top, sink and faucet, hell the hinges are even stamped "made in Austria"  this ain't no Home Depot crap.  Nicest cabinets I'll ever own, for sure.  ;D


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP4280019.jpg&hash=b075571270914ddf9358d6324c3a66f2c68f528e)



I was thinking of doing tile for the back splash, but I was getting worried that these fancy ass cabinets were getting a little too fancy for their surroundings, so I used some old rough cut 1x12's that I got at an auction for a buck.  They cleaned up really nice with some sanding and a couple of coats of Polyurathane.  I didn't sand a bunch, you can still see the saw marks on them.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP4280025.jpg&hash=33820c1a6c9355f925f9348447048758d2500008)


By the end of the week I will have a functioning bathroom, and kitchen.  Just in time for me to move in by April 30th...just so happens to also be the deadline for living in your house, if claiming the new home buyer tax credit.  ;)


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP4280003.jpg&hash=66b4d998eb071b77c266e1dcab0e018d11031987)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: mldrenen on November 23, 2010, 03:35:07 PM
any updates? 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 02, 2010, 03:18:16 PM
Sorry I missed your post...haven't been around it here as much lately.

We've been living in the house for a while now, and really like it.  Still have a lot of interior finishing work left to do, but all the major stuff is done.

I'll get some updated photo's posted.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Pritch on December 03, 2010, 09:03:06 AM
Great!  I'm looking forward to current pics and your report on how living in the new home is going.  Did I miss a discussion on how you acess the loft?  Would love some more interior pics. 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: pocono_couple on December 03, 2010, 06:25:37 PM
Hi guys..  nice job..  i love your comment about the beauty of a small house being simply that it is small..   so are all of the expenses..    we have not posted for quite some time - not much work done since school started, but I did get out there a little over Thanksgiving, and we are scheduled to put some heat in over Christmas, so I intend to get a lot done this winter.   did you guys fit some good boating in this summer?    - looking forward to seeing some more pics.. 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 05, 2010, 04:17:41 PM
Hi guys..  nice job..  i love your comment about the beauty of a small house being simply that it is small..   so are all of the expenses..    we have not posted for quite some time - not much work done since school started, but I did get out there a little over Thanksgiving, and we are scheduled to put some heat in over Christmas, so I intend to get a lot done this winter.   did you guys fit some good boating in this summer?    - looking forward to seeing some more pics.. 

Thanks...Have you guys added any pic's to your page?  I'll have to check it out.

No didn't get any canoeing in this summer, I am planning on heading up north this spring for a solo trip though.  ;D
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 05, 2010, 04:39:38 PM
Well I haven't made a ton of progress, but we have been moved in for a while, and I'm slowly working at all the little things left to do inside.  Moving in before the house is done might of been a mistake, it's such a pain to work on things when you are living there.  Moving stuff around, and trying not to get everything in the house covered in sawdust makes an easy job much tougher.

Anyway, here are some updated photo's...


I ended up closing in the underneath side of the house.  With the wind and snow we have around here I thought it would be much better than just insulating the floor.  I removed the 4x6 bracing between the end piers and built a short stud wall between the piers.  (not sure what the actual term for it is)  Everything was then sheeted in 1/2" PT plywood.  I really think the sheeting and the stud walls do a much better job of tying the whole foundation together.  Seems like it should be almost as good as a full permanent wood foundation.  

I then bermed earth around it, and insulated with sheets of foamboard insulation.   This also gives us a sort of crawlspace under the house.  I added a trap door in the floor to access the area under the house.   This provides for some much needed storage space as well.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F008.jpg&hash=2ffa8ca6fe0cc334772d10e8f1900db2c06e8544)




(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F010.jpg&hash=dc4b88a8bc0a323ea03366df34ec58772028f355)


Here is a shot of the kitchen...small but...has been very functional.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F018.jpg&hash=8a59dd5e344e52052a80dee367e4d959e0d7d0eb)




Here is the bathroom.  



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F021.jpg&hash=f70d77ca9faa67c8c59b2947ec033bbdcf7431a8)



These are the stairs.  It's my version of the "Jefferson Stairs" of the plans that John has posted.

They are built out of 2x12 construction grade lumber.  The railing is pine log.
Going up and down them takes a little getting used to, but you can go up and down them just like regular stairs once you get the hang of them.  

The stairs don't take up much more space than a ladder, and are way better IMO, especially if you plan on using them everyday.  I couldn't imagine trying to go up and down a ladder with laundry, ect. not to mentioning going downstairs to the bathroom in the middle of the night. d*



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F007.jpg&hash=4bdf04e08f6389302c086eab527bac449aa72cf0)



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F004.jpg&hash=a76079befe694170f5916fa6cee79ba4736753fa)



Also got a shed built this summer...8x8.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2F012.jpg&hash=8a58db6f1626cf058ca2ca02a8772e2aca9ef95d)

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: speedfunk on December 08, 2010, 06:57:52 AM
The place is looking great beavers.  I like closing in the underneath, it makes sense from a lot of different reasons...good idea!!!!

Also looks like you have a great efficient use of space in their ..very nice! 
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: jan nikolajsen on December 08, 2010, 05:59:32 PM
very nice, love it! best looking house of that size i've seen in a while.

can you go down the 'stairs' facing out? is that pt plywood rated for burial?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 09, 2010, 05:33:19 PM
Thanks for the compliments guys.


For as small as the house is, we have been very happy with how livable it has been...turns out that we need a lot less space than we think we need.

I do have a lot more built in shelves, ect. that I still want to build to make the small space even more useful.


You can walk down the stairs face first.  It does take a little getting used to, but I think we feel just as comfortable going up and down these stairs as we do a "normal" set of stairs.  

The plywood is ground contact rated.  I hope that means it will be ok being buried, I've got a pretty steep slope on the earth around the house, so it should stay dry around the house.


I'm glad you like our house Jan.   Your family's first small house was one of things that convinced us that this was doable!  :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Barry Broome on September 08, 2011, 07:10:33 PM
Beavers... can you post some new pics? I'd like to see what the place looks like now.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: jdp on September 10, 2011, 06:24:59 AM
Beavers, what part of Nebraska are you from? I'm about two hours west of Omaha. How long have you been actually living in your house? Are you considering living there for awhile? Is space an issue yet? Sorry about all the questions, I'm new to this forum. I've been following it for awhile just never joined. Nice build to by the way. Did you have any problems with the plumbing through the winter? It gets damn cold here.

Jdp
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: CjAl on September 25, 2011, 03:17:42 AM
I've decided I want to use timber frame construction for the covered front porch.  I wanted to try making a joint to see how difficult it would be, and if timber framing would be fun.

I don't have a large framing chisel, so I cheated and used a router to hog out most of the wood then finished up with my small chisel.
Turns out, that you've got to have pretty tight tolerances for this kind of work.  I think the most I'm off is a 1/8" making the joint very loose.  d*

I got a chunk of nice straight grained ash from the firewood pile to make the peg.  I split off a section and rounded it down using a drawknife and spokeshave. 

I ended up with a sloppy loose fitting joint, but it was fun and let me know what I need to work on.
I've got a bunch of scrap 4x6 from the house foundation, so I'm going to keep on practicing.

I promised my wife that I'll get the house done before I start working on the porch.  I'd end up getting side tracked, and by fall would have a great looking timber framed porch, but no house to go with it.  ;D



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv682%2Fadbeavers%2FHouse%2FP7250011.jpg&hash=48bce3727851bf153c7bcfc71c2654704e917c59)

bore the holes for the dowel.slightly off center and taper one end of the dowell to fit.it.through the non lined up holes. As you drive in the dowel will pull the material together as it lines up the hole. (or.push it apart if you offset the holes in the wrong direction.lol)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: speedfunk on October 02, 2011, 05:41:17 AM
the balance between the have to do and the fun to do..  Its a constant struggle for us as well :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: soomb on October 04, 2011, 03:12:20 PM
Updates? Interior photos?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 06, 2017, 07:48:19 PM
Hey guys long time since I've been here...it's cool to see a lot of the same names around here still.  [cool]

It's a real shame about all the photo bucket pics.  Really lost a lot of good stuff from everyone's builds.

Just a little update on the cabin...it's been standing for about 8 years now and the walls and piers are just as plumb as they ever were. It's been subjected to over 60 mph winds, some really wet soil conditions in the Springs and some heavy snows.  I haven't been able to detect any movement in the foundation, and the cabin has stood solid.    :)

My wife and I lived full time in the cabin for almost 2 years. One year of that with a baby.  When we found out we were having a second kid there wasn't time to add on. We ended up finding a real good deal on an older house and bought it.  Now after a few years break from building we are really missing the cabin. The plan is to get a camper in the spring and move back to the cabin to start on an addition.   

My only regret is moving in before completely finishing the house.  I still have finish work left to do.  Once you move in all work stops.  d*

Going to try to add some photos back to thread and hopefully be around here a little more.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Mike 870 on December 07, 2017, 04:56:03 AM
Welcome back Beavers, give us a photo update when you've got some time!
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 08, 2017, 09:03:50 AM
Thanks Mike.

I'm going to try to repost some of the old photos.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mG7UmmGVWrc/Wio2_5tBiOI/AAAAAAAAcAs/muZbxo8t6qMcR2VC2LyFRlCzVRyfH7kqwCLcBGAs/s1600/P6300002.jpg)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IERO8Wvbcug/Wio3TotvfzI/AAAAAAAAcAw/fDnjc1UM_YMTtu_yL-zS7EzOATi99dYbwCLcBGAs/s1600/P7020001.jpg)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hQ5u-PFpDpI/Wio3YF2GYnI/AAAAAAAAcA0/EHC4tsX4_Y8UMLVqV5uiNOF7PNDS18niwCLcBGAs/s1600/P7180004.jpg)


(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eotET0aff30/Wio3bwJ6-uI/AAAAAAAAcA4/rYnn1c-sRAYqCdRULjJ1yV7oOkAk2bU5wCLcBGAs/s1600/P7180005.jpg)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6VcC1MzmS_8/Wio3iYK7o3I/AAAAAAAAcBA/ERZDP4Lka1AemxwL5r6pBRpwL2flk8t-ACLcBGAs/s1600/P7190005.jpg)


Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 08, 2017, 09:06:18 AM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-id76fWsfhwY/Wio3n9C1zAI/AAAAAAAAcBE/Pgv-9NGI9P8QZrvUIqdphOKCneqT4SCvgCLcBGAs/s1600/P7260005.JPG)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZcrtZ3jFBz4/Wio3skVTmYI/AAAAAAAAcBM/7eIPwYUFhi0EywEb6JdVIXH5UuMDvxHegCLcBGAs/s1600/P8050003.JPG)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qNTCiteLbxg/Wio3vxSgkdI/AAAAAAAAcBQ/i3eDpug3gMM3lK_IjkXq4wG2YV_a0rSxACLcBGAs/s1600/P8150004.jpg)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 08, 2017, 09:36:57 AM
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mreKjgTjDQE/WirXt2nLK4I/AAAAAAAAcCc/uAl6ET7a-Nc7Fw6x5PjhutMfgEzDcUzpACLcBGAs/s1600/PA040015.jpg)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QCn22egnnVA/WirYMV5UuAI/AAAAAAAAcCg/nW3ZgRD2YQMxf0bT3ICj9VITlH0CY5RBQCLcBGAs/s1600/PA180430.JPG)


(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f1-9SgX-fcY/WirYbU9Z0xI/AAAAAAAAcCs/EA8yZwTw2I8isDew3LXAbyrxgHXM0QAnwCLcBGAs/s1600/PA180438.JPG)


(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZZrbc6PBpyA/WirYMg5vEXI/AAAAAAAAcCk/n5nmmdKHvMQ3p903gS3tJyDYtY2_Mp5mwCLcBGAs/s1600/PA180019.JPG)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 08, 2017, 09:42:38 AM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-b-lpVNs5vSQ/WirYX3Qb9MI/AAAAAAAAcCo/7QhuKLo1HCgJSrJfHXSrwDxynOj2QnMYgCLcBGAs/s1600/PA180027%2B%25282%2529.JPG)


(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zcZ7lgcCS3A/WirYp3oJ7SI/AAAAAAAAcC0/WUNnFD4LDVsA5zB4SgI22Eph064rXbjcACLcBGAs/s1600/PB210099.JPG)



(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KIeIJCHqgD8/WirYmQXG0iI/AAAAAAAAcCw/Tb8dzAyATBo6SemxtwJRsox1JM6sHlA1QCLcBGAs/s1600/P4280017.JPG)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RjT5f8i7R2c/WirYwzocnkI/AAAAAAAAcC4/iNxF9ZwtEuMLjruCLfCTnR0jx4Vn1kBOwCLcBGAs/s1600/P4280026.JPG)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: OlJarhead on December 10, 2017, 03:36:05 PM
Cool little place :)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on December 10, 2017, 03:50:29 PM
Thanks Jarhead!
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on March 26, 2018, 04:29:34 AM
I got my building permit the other day for an 8x16 addition.  Going to be a shed roof addition added to the front of the cabin.  I'm planning on a concrete block crawlspace.  Going to extend the footing to under the existing beam of the cabin and tie it in to the new foundation.  The cabin has been up for 8 years now and I haven't been able to detect any movement of the piers, but I figured it would be better to beef it up some.

I'm also finishing some of the finish work that never got done in the cabin along with extending the loft.
I'll get some pics posted once I get something done.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 07, 2018, 02:47:50 PM
Started working on the 2x6 tongue and groove flooring for the loft extension.  Last time I bought T&G flooring from Menards it was pretty expensive and the quality wasn't very good.  I decided to get construction grade 2x6's and mill them myself.  It will be a fraction of the cost and can't look any worse than the over priced crap I got from Menards before.  ;D



Spent a couple of hours running everything through the jointer.
  (https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/19/a6/caeEG2ix_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/caeEG2ix)


I think it cleaned up pretty good and after sanding should be even better.
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/d4/e8/mNd117lB_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/mNd117lB)


Created a mountain of shavings ;D
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/44/d6/tHDUQg0y_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/tHDUQg0y)


I started working on figuring out how to cut the T&G.  Using the table saw to cut the tongue was pretty time consuming.  I'm not sure how I'm going to do it yet.  I have a router but no table.  I was also thinking of just cutting the shoulders on the table saw and then using a hand plane or chisel to remove the waste.  Anyone have any tips for me ???
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/16/e1/oOjrQwMf_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/oOjrQwMf)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on April 07, 2018, 03:16:53 PM
If the router came with a fence that would work, but I'm guessing not. You can drill a couple of holes through the router base and make a wood fence that rides on the edge of the board, the outer edge of the tongue. A board with a cutout in the bit area and then screw the fence in place for whatever the cut width is. Align the holes and fence in a comfortable working position cause you will have hours of work to do. You may need to do it in several steps of either depth or width to spare the motor depending on the router power. Buy new bits, cheaper than a smoked router. For the groove a wing cutter and fence will work, again it may take multiple passes which means a lot of board handling. You may need to rip the tongue edge with the groove edge against the tablesaw fence to make sure your widths are identical after the jointing operation.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 07, 2018, 03:57:39 PM
The router is pretty good sized and does have a fence. Also have a 1/2 straight bit. I never used it for much other cutting openings for the windows in the sheeting. Looks like it's time for some YouTube router education .


(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/67/17/sJQHyhFt_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/sJQHyhFt)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on April 07, 2018, 05:36:03 PM
Good deal, and its a plunge. You can set the first depth stop at 1/4" and the second at 1/2" depth and probably do it in 2 passes per side. I would run down the board climb cutting, letting it pull you along, then come back in the "correct" direction against the rotation, drop to 1/2" depth and repeat. By climb cutting it will reduce tearout, just don't let it get away from you. There is a tradeoff, a larger diameter cutter has less tearout but requires more power and more control. Dull tooling is more apt to tearout, burn and get away from you and takes much more power. A diamond stone on the flat faces can sharpen minor dullness, never hone the narrow edge only the flat face. With any edge tool look down the cutting edge in strong light. A cutting edge has no dimension and splits the light. If you see a white line reflecting back at you from the cutting edge, that is a flat land, dullness.

There are also matched T&G router bit sets available. I would do that in two fence depth settings.

With either take the time to set up a full length workstation like a 2x10 across 4 horses with a fence screwed to it away from you to stop the "off side" of the floorboards to keep them from sliding as you push the router and fence against the board.

Hearing protection...huh whatcha say? Routers are screamers.

A router is probably the most versatile tool in the shop, I have 4 or 5 worn out ones and 3 live ones down there. One careless homeowner burned up 2 of those in a week, I can get years out of one, take multiple passes if the machine is bogging.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 07, 2018, 07:25:02 PM
Thank you for the tips Don...very helpful.

This sounds like a good excuse to finally clean all the crap off my workbench and set up a proper workstation.  I will see how well this goes milling these boards.  If it goes well I was thinking of milling more for the addition.  I was thinking of eliminating the plywood sub floor and just using 2x6 T&G for sub floor/finish floor.  They used to run 2x6 diagonal for sub floor back in the day right?  Do you see any issues doing that?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on April 08, 2018, 04:09:25 AM
They used to run diagonal square edged 1x subfloor before plywood. Actually just 1xT&G was code perp to 16" oc joists if the boards were endmatched (T&G on the ends, that is where that machining comes from but nobody knows that anymore and they think it is for cupping) There were enough nails to provide adequate diaphragm for a floor... but it is a lousy floor. I've done a number of 2xT&G loft floors in log cabins perp to joists but am not a real fan, noisy and dust filters through. On one timberframe job the archie specced  2xT&G then a 1/2" layer of xps foamboard then 5/8 ply screwed down on 8" ctrs then pad and carpet, that is a quiet floor but time consuming... that was more than you wanted to know  :D

Actually for long boards like that without big cast iron molders it works better to ride the router on the board than to try to feed the board through a tabletop mounted router, sometimes it works better to take the tool to the work rather than taking the work to the tool. As timbers get larger that kind of thinking comes into play. I do 1x wainscot sized T&G on a stationary undertable router setup but begin to rethink as the boards get into the 8' length and longer. After spending days making cherry wainscot on that farmhouse remodel using 2 big routers mounted undertable, the homie just got a sweet shaper  d*
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: GaryT on April 08, 2018, 07:42:30 AM
One other way to make the T&G is with a dado blade.  Two passes for the tongue edge, one for the groove.  Goes pretty quickly.  Careful set-up and featherboards to keep everything tight to the fence, as well as some sort of outfeed table or roller and things can move right along.  One thing's for sure, there are many ways to skin the milling cat.
Gary
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 08, 2018, 04:21:00 PM
Thanks guys.  I'm going router bit shopping and working on figuring out a jig for holding the boards for routing this week.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 08, 2018, 04:26:54 PM
Don,

What was lousy about the 1xT&G run perpendicular?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on April 08, 2018, 04:56:43 PM
I was talking about a single ply 1x floor. Mainly they are drafty. In the winter when you heat, especially a drafty house, bringing in outdoor air and then warming it up causes the humidity indoors to crash which causes wood to shrink, which opens the gaps wider and causes more drafts, one of those vicious cycles. It is also springier and squeakier. It is a code minimum floor, strong enough but doesn't perform well.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 08, 2018, 05:23:19 PM
Ok that makes sense.  I installed my 2x6 T&G loft floor in the summer time.  I had everything pretty tight and in the winter time the gaps do grow quite a bit. 

That's why I love this forum...2xT&G groove for a subfloor/finish floor sounded like a great idea to me.  Never would of thought of the gaps and draft issue.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on April 09, 2018, 12:35:26 PM
I like the looks of the 2x6 T&G for a loft floor.  Might a bead of silicone in the groove at installation be enough to keep the dust in place?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: OlJarhead on April 16, 2018, 10:20:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_HMTtfIIBA
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on April 16, 2018, 03:30:35 PM
Thanks. Looks like that setup works pretty good. What bits were you using?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: OlJarhead on April 17, 2018, 09:20:01 AM
Thanks. Looks like that setup works pretty good. What bits were you using?

I'd have to go check LOL it's been a little while but I do remember buying what I thought were good ones (and they were)...I think Rockler.

The trick is to do all the grooves and then switch to all the tongues.  Also, I put 2" cardboard over the back/under side of the router like a fence to drive the sawdust to the floor instead of all over me.  The quick clamps came off Amazon and made it fast work to switch out the boards.

I started with a router table and found it was a lot slower and a pain in the rear.  Doing it this was was fast and efficient.  There are some other vids there of doing this also.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on May 12, 2018, 02:54:32 PM
I got started on hooking my power system today. I'm setting it up in a shed right now until I get the addition done on the cabin. Everything went together pretty good. I didn't electrocute myself or set anything on fire [cool]

The #4 wire is too big to fit into the terminals on my inverter.   ??? I guess I need smaller wire?
Also planning on building an insulated enclosure around the generator to quiet it down some.

(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/17/b4/baIWmm7w_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/baIWmm7w)

(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/56/96/gqsXHQdr_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/gqsXHQdr)

(https://images2.imgbox.com/78/c4/3KdUZ4lu_o.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/3KdUZ4lu)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Mike 870 on May 12, 2018, 04:13:07 PM
Cool, let us know how you like that IOTA, was thinking of getting one as well, my system is too small for a big inverter/charger.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on May 12, 2018, 04:13:30 PM
Also got more work done on the outdoor kitchen/dining area.  Still have to finish getting the dining area screened in.

(https://images2.imgbox.com/eb/3d/uz06P6HV_o.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/uz06P6HV)

(https://images2.imgbox.com/e0/59/u2NeL7Ks_o.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/u2NeL7Ks)
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on May 12, 2018, 04:15:35 PM
I'll let you know Mike.   I got the 40amp one and the 1800 watt generator is only running about 75% load with it charging.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: MountainDon on May 12, 2018, 04:36:30 PM
 I bought my first Iota charger about 12 years ago when they were still made in USA. It's  I still have and use it. It is the 12 volt 55 amp. I also have a 24 volt 40 amp model. I use the separate IQ4 with the 12 volt version but don't use it on the 24 volt model as a rule.

Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: kenhill on May 14, 2018, 06:22:44 AM
I have my generator on a shelf like you sitting on top of 2 foam mats.  Somehow it causes the whole generator shed to vibrate.  I can lift it up and the sound reduces dramatically.  SNot sure what to do.  I had left over insulation and completely covered the inside of the shed with insulation and it did not help.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on May 14, 2018, 07:13:28 AM
Back in the day of vinyl LP albums and turntables, there were many anti-vibration mats marketed that supposedly prevented needle skips by absorbing vibration.  Perhaps a mat of similar material could do that for the gennie?  I've seen some ant-fatigue mats designed for the workplace that could work perhaps.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Don_P on May 14, 2018, 08:16:25 AM
Cut a hole through the floor and set the gennie on a concrete pier isolated from the shed?
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on May 14, 2018, 08:33:26 AM
Did the rubber mats seem to help at all Ken?  I never thought of doing that.  I was just planning on building a small enclosure just big enough to hold the generator.  I already have a vent installed in the shed wall and I got two small 12v fans to help with airflow around the generator.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: kenhill on May 14, 2018, 05:23:16 PM
I have not run it without the mats.  One are the kind you snap together at a work bench and the other mat is an anti fatigue one.  They are stacked on top of one another.
Title: Re: 12 x 16 House
Post by: Beavers on October 29, 2018, 10:03:05 AM
So we've been back living in the little house full time for about 6 months now.

I haven't gotten anything major accomplished to the house this summer.  I have gotten a lot done...just not big photo worthy projects.  ;D

I did get my flooring boards milled and the loft extended.  Extending the loft has added a lot of room.  Without that space living there full time would be much more difficult.
Did some more work on the outdoor dining area as well.  I finished screening it in and built a raised paneled screen door for it using only hand tools (other than cutting the groove for the panels).  It was my first attempt at door making and I was pretty happy with how it turned out.

When we lived in the house the first time we never had a refrigerator and relied on coolers and ice.  That was a major pain and not something we wanted to do again.  I got a Dometic propane fridge.  Right now it's living in the shed next to my battery bank.

As far as electricity goes we have learned that we really don't use very much.  I'm guessing about 90% of our electrical use is running fans in the summer.  We would usually run one box fan and a small oscillating fan at night.  10 hours of that would run my 4 gc batteries down to about 50%.  It would then take 3-4 hours of running the generator to recharge the batteries every evening.  The generator has turned out to be about the perfect size.  I can run the Iota, chargers for my Ryobi batteries, fans in the house, and the swimming pool pump all at the same time.

For lighting we have been using Ryobi LED lights.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-Cordless-LED-Workbench-Light-Tool-Only-P727/207017500 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-Cordless-LED-Workbench-Light-Tool-Only-P727/207017500)

I can't say enough good things about these lights.  They are super bright and have very long battery life [cool]

Now that we aren't running the fans our only electrical use is charging batteries for the lights, and charging cell phones/laptop.  I'm only running the generator about 4 hours a week now. 
I would like to double the size of my battery bank next year.  It would be nice not to have run the generator every day. 

While it would be nice to get some solar and not have to run the generator I don't think it's worth the major cost and time it would take me get it set up.  There are a lot of higher priority things on my list.

I really wanted to get an addition done this summer but it just didn't happen.  Time and money were both lacking.  I know where I want to get with the house and shop and all the other things I want to do around the place.  At times it seems overwhelming to think of how much work there is to do.   Even though I didn't get any of the big projects done, I did get a lot stuff done that make the house much more livable and comfortable.

I'll try to get some photo's posted, but our internet is insanely slow and uploading photo's doesn't work very often.
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