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General => General Forum => Topic started by: MountainDon on April 15, 2007, 08:53:20 PM

Title: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: MountainDon on April 15, 2007, 08:53:20 PM
I live in an area of NM where homes are all 20-22 yrs old. Most 4:12 pitch asphalt shingle. A number have re-roofed over the past 2 yrs, me this past Dec. Most re-done with asphalt shingles, a couple, metal as I did (not me myself; professionally). Three of us were talking about roofs today; my two immediate neighbors are planning on re-roofing this year. One's going metal with the guy I used. Smart guy.   :-/  The other's thinking shingles. We had both noticed that a couple of the shingle re-roofs had the valleys done different from the norm. The norm being that the valleys either have aluminum or galvanized flashing installed and the shingles cut to leave a width of metal for the water to flow down. The roofers leave them bare, a couple people painted them a similar color to the roof, most leave natural metal.

The oddity we had noticed was a couple homes where the valleys were shingled over. Neither of us had seen the job in progress, nor talked to the homeowner, but we assume metal flashing was installed and roofed over. It'd like the right side of the roof shingles were laid across the valley, then the left side cut off down the center of the valley. My neighbor who's going to re-shingle likes the look; no metal showing. I agree, it looks nicer and no need to paint the flashing, if it bothers you.

However, something just doesn't seem right about it to me. But I can't put my finger on what.  :-? Maybe it's just me being suspicious about something different??  :-/

And a PS/FYI. One roofer did a nice/different thing. They did the shingle roof using colored metal flashing like is used on a metal roof. No need to paint it ever. Looked good.
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 15, 2007, 09:12:22 PM
I have seen skilled roofers do it that way - don't remember what it is called -.  My buddies brother in law did one that way for me about 20 years ago.  How many like multiple layers of roofing - new over old -- I do - I think I got up to three or four layers then this time the roofer tore it all off and redid it all fresh.
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: PEG688 on April 15, 2007, 09:15:39 PM
All varations , of asphalt roofing . The laided valley or valley weave is the shingle thru the valley look , it does not clean out debris as well as valley metal as the shingles are well course like shingles are so crap can build up slowing run off .

 Valley metal comes in Gavl. metal and a varity of colors ,  it's a baked on finish.  Also called "W"  flashing / metal cleaver huh ::)

   Bown / bronze color is common here , YMMV where you live , Seldom is raw Galv. metal used around here , most valley metal is  brown.  The one benifit to the gavl. is it some times kills moss , some thing in the metal does it but it doesn't always work , depends on the moss or mayeb other midigating surcome stances  :-/

 The valley weave if done wrong will leak as will the metal so other than looks and the cleaning out thing either way is exceptable and will last about the same amount of years . Valley metal is generally replaced then the roof is replaced.

 I do not think roofing over a old roof is a good idea , yes it camn be done , you can have two layers of roofing legally , but it is not a sound building  practice , none the less it is quite common.

 So it depends , what is your real question?? Cost ?? Looks ?? subjective beauty is in th eye of the beholder. One man joy is anothers sorrow !

 Again YMMV.  

 Sure hope we don't have any drift here  ;D
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: PEG688 on April 15, 2007, 09:18:06 PM
Quote
I have seen skilled roofers do it that way - don't remember what it is called -.  My buddies brother in law did one that way for me about 20 years ago.  How many like multiple layers of roofing - new over old -- I do - I think I got up to three or four layers then this time the roofer tore it all off and redid it all fresh.

 Ppor poor Glenn 4 layers  ::) You metal workers are , well somethin, opps we're drifting .  Ya metals good , skilled roofers , there a few  most are crack heads. Hey it's tough work aguy needs a boost about well noon or so. Opps drifting again, ga nite  ;D
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: MountainDon on April 15, 2007, 09:26:21 PM
Quote
called "W"  flashing
.... one benifit to the gavl. is it some times kills moss , ..........   I do not think roofing over a old roof is a good idea ,            Sure hope we don't have any drift here  ;D
"W" that's what I have and what the colored shingle roof used.
no moss around here to kill   :)  high dry desert
I had the old roof ripped off, also got a homeowner insurance break for removal of old asphalt and new metal roof


Glenn, how many layers would the underground cabin have, with all the dirt, veggies, gophers and all?
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 15, 2007, 09:31:23 PM
I had one idiot "boyfriend of an ex-sister-in-law" who couldn't figure out what to do on a metal building roof - so he sat up there and smoked a J to help him figure it out.  That was his last day.

His replacement was an Indian - east Indian who only knew a little English.  I told him I had been sick and not feeling to well.

He looked at me and his eyes lit up --- "Sikh, Sikh -- you are  Sikh????  I am Sikh too."  Seriously.  Note - we were working on the roof and he squatted down in the middle of the Fiberglass skylight when I told him to be careful and not step on it.  He had to go also.

I had to add the mandatory amount of thread drift.
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: MountainDon on April 15, 2007, 09:35:01 PM
First, I am laughing.    ;D

Second, that's why I never really liked having others working for me when I was doing playgrounds and could really have used help with the grunt work. My sympathies and complete understanding.

Third, I should soon go off to bed. Tomorrow dawns at its usual time.

Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 15, 2007, 09:37:05 PM
Well -- about 1 to 1 1/2 feet if I didn't get lazy and skimp in some areas. :)

An interesting note here - asphalt and clay soil.  You know how clay takes all the oil out of your hands -- it does that to roofing felt also.  I used some for protection of plastic underground and some hard fiber is about all that is left after 5 years.  The 90 lb. sanded with plastic over it is supposed to be fine with a couple inches of sandy loam and succulents growing on it to keep the heat away -- more camo for me. :)
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 15, 2007, 09:40:49 PM
Unfortunately I have to work tomorrow too.  New courthouse in Fresno.  Federal.  I must do my part so the common street criminals may be apprehended and the only criminals roaming free will be in the Whitehouse.  G'day guys. :)  

I'll check in a bit in the morning and at night - Play nice. ;D
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: John_C on April 16, 2007, 03:04:32 AM
Quote
... and the only criminals roaming free will be in the Whitehouse.  ;D


That's Unfair.  What about Wall Street?
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 16, 2007, 04:15:19 AM
I see I was generalizing a bit too much - add Downing Street too.
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 16, 2007, 04:17:49 AM
Quote

 Ppor poor Glenn 4 layers  ::) You metal workers are , well somethin, opps we're drifting .  Ya metals good , skilled roofers , there a few  most are crack heads. Hey it's tough work aguy needs a boost about well noon or so. Opps drifting again, ga nite  ;D

At least my 4 layer roof didn't leak like the new properly torn off and re-roofed single layer did. >:(
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: PEG688 on April 16, 2007, 04:34:18 AM
Low bidder again  ::) Those roofers , the ones who did your roof , must not know how to "Think like rain!" Eh??

 And Mtn. D I was throw out "good points " to each type of valley flashing , so you don't have moss, well Joe $hit the rag man,  :-/  might so it was a over view of valley options / differences.    
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 16, 2007, 04:40:30 AM
Actually not the low bidder -- the guy was pretty high but his workers failed to seal  around the bracing for the electrical service.  I assume they didn't pull the lag bolts out.  Electric co. made us brace it when we went up to 200 amp svc from 60 amp svc.
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: PEG688 on April 16, 2007, 04:47:21 AM
Slip shod workmenship when you redo a roof about the only thing that doesn't get replaced it the roof jack / slide on roof flashing that goes on the power pole / pipe . When we remodel we replace all that stuff , roof vents / jacks / valley metal , etc the onlt thing left is that jack , and I generally buy a new all rubber one and cut it so it can slip over / around the pipe lower side only then clamp it onto the pipe with a SS pipe clamp and butter up the cut with goop and screw that over lapped jack back down.

 No new roof should leak all you need to do is "Think like rain!" Simple ;)

 Maybe yer guy was high on crank when he hired thode guys , where they from south O the border??  
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 16, 2007, 04:54:51 AM
Si senor.  

Actually I trust the guys more than I trust him.  Sassy paid the guys directly and got a lien release from them because they were afraid he wouldn't pay them and I was afraid he wouldn't pay them.



Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: Sassy on April 16, 2007, 08:17:46 AM
Well, I shoulda hired you, PEG!  They did replace all the vents, etc & also the wood facing around the eaves.  But right after they pulled the old roofs off & put the felt on it rained & the wind blew real bad so I got leaks in my bedroom & stains on the ceiling; then they had just finished the day we had another downpour & I had another leak in the same bedroom - this time around the service bolts.  
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: PEG688 on April 16, 2007, 10:20:01 AM
Quote
Well, I shoulda hired you, PEG!  They did replace all the vents, etc & also the wood facing around the eaves.  But right after they pulled the old roofs off & put the felt on it rained & the wind blew real bad so I got leaks in my bedroom & stains on the ceiling; then they had just finished the day we had another downpour & I had another leak in the same bedroom - this time around the service bolts.  


 Where they prepared for rain?? Gotta keep a eye on the weather >:( , even though they say "It never rains in California" ;D Or was that Southern Ca, ??  :-/ :-?

 So the "leaks" where while the roof was off / being done ??  That Glenn blames everything on the Mexicans  ::)
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: MountainDon on April 16, 2007, 11:22:33 AM
The guys that did my metal re-rrof put it off a couple days because of the weather threatening rain. Then when they were nearly done (just a few panels over the garage left) it snowed.   :-?  Everything was cool tho'.
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: Sassy on April 16, 2007, 04:59:32 PM
they knew about the rain - they just didn't tack the felt down good enough & then when they were finished they'd failed to seal around the electrical service bracing.   And he took off on another job knowing it was going to rain...
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: PEG688 on April 16, 2007, 05:18:13 PM
Well I've had roofs leak when tearing off but I've made every effort to prevent it and I've been on roofs in driving rain stroms when tarps blew off etc , it ain't pretty but I never left a building that needed to be covered , IE  a remodel/ roof tear off like that.

 Oh well this to shall pass eh ::)  
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 16, 2007, 07:54:22 PM
It will pass but I don't think it will be able to distance itself far enough from me to make me forget it.  I typed more but erased it -- I've had about all I want of this guy.  It was not really Sassy's choice or my choice to let him do it -- just the only way to get our money out of him.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: PEG688 on April 16, 2007, 08:05:21 PM
Well there's alway alsimers (sp) where every day / hour you meet new people  ;D OOPS thread drift must fight thread dri........................ aaaauuuuugggghhhh!!!! ;D
Title: Re: (Re-) Roofing Question
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 16, 2007, 09:06:50 PM
Good catch, PEG. :)
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