CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

General => General Forum => Topic started by: CabinNick on June 30, 2020, 07:40:38 PM

Title: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: CabinNick on June 30, 2020, 07:40:38 PM
I am working on mapping out and purchasing all the equipment for my interior water system.  Looking for any advice on if I should be doing something differently that what I have planned. 

Some background - Our water source is spring water from a cistern.  The cistern is located above the cabin but only about 15' in elevation so we will need a water pump for pressure.  The only water use in the cabin will be a full bath with a shower, a half bath, and a kitchen sink. We will be on solar, so I plan on using a pressure tank to keep the pump from cycling frequently.  The most water use I would anticipate at one time would be someone taking a shower at the same time someone is doing the dishes (by hand). 

My initial plan is as follows:

Shurflo 2088-594-144 115VAC 3.0 GPM pump; goes up to 50 psi.

Pre-charged pressure tanks - thinking 30 gallons so it can handle at least a shower or two before turning the pump on

EZ Deluxe Tankless LP hot water heater with direct vent - 4.4 GPM

Questions: 1) Will the Shurflo pump be sufficient to fill that size of a pressure tank?  With the size of the tank, I anticipate most of the water use will be drawing from the tank and not through direct pumping.  2) I will need to filter water before the water enters the hot water heater.  Will this filter reduce the pressure much from the pump?  Would it be best to just filter the water going into the tankless heater or put the filter earlier in the system where it filters all of the water?  3) Anything you would recommend I do differently than I have outlined?

Thanks for the help!

Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: Dave Sparks on July 01, 2020, 06:07:27 AM
Yes the shurflo will work but I would use an external square D pressure switch. I would filter before the pump to protect this short lived solution. It's life will depend on other variables so have a spare. The rest, maybe someone else can help. Good Luck
Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: MountainDon on July 01, 2020, 09:13:52 AM
Be certain the water heater can heat the cold water to the temperature you want to use at the volume you will want.

How much propane volume is needed (expressed in BTU's usually) to operate the water heater, and can your propane tank and piping supply that. Not a problem with the typical ground mount propane tank that is refilled on site by the delivery truck, but that propane delivery volume from portable tanks smaller than 100 gallons can be a problem in very cold weather.

Filtration ahead of the Shurflo is best as those can be finicky when small particulate matter gets stuck in their valve system.  I have a spare which is a great idea when a new one might be needed suddenly.

This is part-time cabin use, right?  Does it freeze hard in winter?  What are your winterization plans if weather is freezing and the cabin is empty?

RE the 30 gallon pressure tank.  I went the RV way, using the pressure switch in the Shurflo. No pressure tank. The original pump in the cabin was replaced several years ago but only because the burglars stole the first one. I am completely happy with the system performance. We have many months of freezing weather and the elimination of another piece of equipment (pressure tank) helps with shortening the time needed to blow out the system. We come and go frequently in freezing weather so to me that is a bigger deal than someone who does not have the cold or does not spend the time at the cabin in that cold.  I also used a 24 volt DC version of the pump so I was not concerned with the short cycling that you would have with the AC version.  DC voltage may be a problem with inspection. DC needs as much, perhaps more care in installation, proper fusing, etc. Also DC might be an insurance issue.   That's a personal call.  We can't get affordable insurance in the middle of the forest where we are so we just did everything with as much care as possible.

Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: CabinNick on July 01, 2020, 12:05:08 PM
Thanks for the input Dave and Don.  Yes, this is just a vacation cabin that is mostly for spring through fall use, but we will probably make a trip or two in each winter.  At this point, my plan is to winterize the water system each year and use it as a dry cabin during the winter.  We do have an outhouse and running water via a frost free spigot in the winter.  We have fairly hard winters with heavy snow and temps regularly getting down to the single digits and occasionally below zero.  I set up a frost free hydrant downhill from the cabin that can eventually be used to drain the entire system, but right now to do that I also have to drain the entire 1,000 gallon cistern.  On the "to do" list for a few years out it to dig down to the line above the cabin and put in a vent so I can drain the cabin but not the cistern.  For now, my plan is to just drain everything in the fall, shut the underground valve to the cabin and then refill the cistern so it is not empty over the winter.  The only thing that is stopping me at this point is not having a way to vent the line below the shut off. 

I considered DC but this build is permitted and inspected so I didn't want to mess with issues associated with DC power.  And yes, we are having the same problems with getting insurance as you have experienced. 

I did research the BTU's of the water heater to make sure we could get the temperature increase we need, but I didn't know about the propane flow issues with small gallon tanks.  Don, do you know at what temp that becomes a problem or how I would determine if that is going to be an issue with the particular model I purchased?

Thanks again for the help.
Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: MountainDon on July 03, 2020, 11:44:31 AM
This should help with the propane / cold weather question.   I have friends here who have avoided the whole freezing weather thing by using a buried ASME tank. Big (1000 gallon, 800 usable capacity)  and I think not cheap. They have replaceable anodes and do not need recertifications. We use portable cylinders but have no high demand appliances.

https://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10186.0
Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: Dave Sparks on July 05, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
If you ever get down to Salem, my cousin owns Cristos Lounge. Best Italian and pizza on the west coast IMHO. Use to have great music pre covid....
https://christospizzasalem.com/
Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: pmichelsen on July 06, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
Yes the shurflo will work but I would use an external square D pressure switch. I would filter before the pump to protect this short lived solution. It's life will depend on other variables so have a spare. The rest, maybe someone else can help. Good Luck

One thing that Dave mentioned that I want to reiterate, have a spare. I keep a spare of every part of our water system on hand, pump, pressure switch, filter housing, etc. And I have everything setup so that swapping the new part in is very easy, valves to isolate pieces, unions, etc. Right now I have it so that almost any part of our system can be replaced in ~ 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: MountainDon on July 06, 2020, 06:21:44 PM
  [cool] and very smart
Title: Re: Cabin Water Pump, Tank and Heater
Post by: Dave Sparks on July 10, 2020, 10:43:35 AM
Certainly prudent in these C19 times.
We have not been able to buy a combo pizza at Costco for 3 months. They have cheese and pepperoni but no vegetables.
The funny part to me is it is in the central valley of California. One of the largest growing regions in the world. You can feed yourself off the vegetables dropped from truck/trailers on the side of the roads when they are harvesting.

Not boring for sure!  Hope Karen and you are hunky dory!
Templates: 3: Ads (default), Portal (default), Printpage (default).
Sub templates: 4: init, print_above, main, print_below.
Language files: 3: SPortal.english (default), index+Modifications.english (default), Ads.english (default).
Style sheets: 1: portal (default).
Files included: 31 - 904KB. (show)
Cache hits: 8: 0.00105s for 35,250 bytes (show)
Queries used: 16.

[Show Queries]