CountryPlans Forum

Recommended by the big pharma co's that mix live virus with vaccines.  This is likely a population reduction and big pharma money grab.

It is not proven safe or effective - you will be a guinea pig.  Refuse for all you are worth.  This will create their desired pandemic for their immense profit.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026723_health_vaccines_immune_system.html

Looks like they will use the military on us if we refuse?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/29/military-poised-help-fema-battle-swine-flu-outbreak/

Totally illegal.

We've decided not to vaccinate.

http://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html?s=al&promo_code=841F-1

Glen,

I see both sides of the issue, however as for me and my family, no vaccinations - period.  under any circumstances.  I feel pretty strong about it.  Luckily the state of Texas has openly said that it cannot be forced on our citizens and we have the right to choose.   I just hope our schools do not try to take the decision out of our hands.  (2 children here). 

Another no vote here. This government can't be trusted to tie it's own shoes so trusting it with a needle is out of the question.

Quote from: muldoon on July 30, 2009, 12:14:37 AM
Glen,

I see both sides of the issue, however as for me and my family, no vaccinations - period.  under any circumstances.  I feel pretty strong about it.  Luckily the state of Texas has openly said that it cannot be forced on our citizens and we have the right to choose.   I just hope our schools do not try to take the decision out of our hands.  (2 children here). 

Is this the same Texas that I hear has mandated the Gardasil 'cervical cancer immunization' shots for all girls of a certain age (somewhere between 12 and 15 IIRC)?

I intend to get the H1N1 swine flu vaccination when it becomes available, so I will be happy to report back on any negative effects.  Mrs. Eclipse has a incurable, chronic lung disease that landed her in the hospital with pneumonia last month, so the very real danger from any flu infection, swine or otherwise, far outweighs the remote threat from any government conspiracy to wipe us out.

So if you all don't want it, can I have yours? 

Yup... you can have mine.  Read the link I supplied above.  Damage to your immune and nervous system might not show up for years.

You may have mine as well. The damn vaccine is probly the delivery mechanism.

Why is a government conspiracy to wipe us out a remote threat? We live in Satan's world, and ultimately the powers-that-be are interested only in power and wealth.. Make people sick--they can't fight their agendas. People go to hospitals--give billions of dollars to the pharmaceutical companies. Sounds like a good plan for a corrupted government to me...

You really think the guys at the top of the ladder are out for our well-being and protection, from the goodness of their hearts?   ;)

Seems to me if Satan wanted to claim as many souls as possible, he would spread false information about vaccinations for curable diseases, thus making anyone who listens to his lies vulnerable to a preventable illness.  Of course, it might just be Darwin's Law at work also, so y'all do what you think is right.  I'll see you on the other side in 30 or 40 years.

I'm not going to get it either Pox, but it doesn't have anything to do with the Government or Satin. I don't like Doctors and I especially don't like taking medicines that I don't need (I don't even like it when I do need them).

I do understand your situation and if I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. Sure, there may be a risk of future problems but they are speculative...while the immediate threat is real and life threatening.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on July 30, 2009, 08:19:46 PM
Seems to me if Satan wanted to claim as many souls as possible, he would spread false information about vaccinations for curable diseases, thus making anyone who listens to his lies vulnerable to a preventable illness.  Of course, it might just be Darwin's Law at work also, so y'all do what you think is right.  I'll see you on the other side in 30 or 40 years.

I dunno.. We speculators are by far the minority. You are right about misinformation; the masses are fed loads of it every day while they sit in their living rooms.

I just dont like drugs and don't take them in any fashion.  that goes for tylenol or nyquil or vitamins or pain medicines or this flu shot.  I eat a good diet, get exercise, and my greatest weakness is my beer.   I do not think a haphazard vaccine with insufficient time for clinical trials to target a mutating virus is a good idea.  I would rather have a strong body now and in the future than depend on some man made juju.  I feel pretty strongly about this and wont be changing my mind about it - but I do completely respect anyone and everyone else for their opinions about it as well. 

I have been in several labs that are studying vitamin D

there seems to be a great focus on vitamin D lately --- many pharmaceutical companies are trying to get analogs of Vit D that are patentable because it is such a potent anti viral and anti bacterial anti inflamitory


my vote, get a good supply of Vitamin D3 from a good health store brand and get some sunshine

I will quote one of my customers for a very large phamaceutical manufacturer in North Chicago IL (should be enough of a hint if you want to know the company)

"I asked should I take vaccines ?"

he said "If you do not HAVE to take a vaccine --DON"T--  I and my family do not"


This guy is a PhD (virology) and MD

and he is the group leader of their vaccine manufacturing facillity

That was good enough for me

we are not getting an experimental vaccine in my house

I a have another customer that recently nearly died from Guilian Barre syndrom (he was in the hospital for tests when his cardio pulmanary system shut down -- they were able to get him on a breathing machine in time...)

he still cannot pronounce some words or whistle and has a limp --- this is 5 years later



yep 2 months after a flu shot

Rec'd this today.  I see gunfights in America's future...

Military to Deploy on U.S. Soil
to "Assist" with Pandemic Outbreak
Thursday, July 30, 2009 by: Mike Adams
Excerpts follow :

CNN is reporting this evening that the U.S. military is gearing up to get involved in the
H1N1 swine flu outbreak widely expected to strike the U.S. this fall. As CNN reports,
"The U.S. military wants to establish regional teams of military personnel
to assist civilian authorities in the event of a significant outbreak of the H1N1 virus this fall,
according to Defense Department officials."
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/07/28/military.swine.flu/

The plan calls for military task forces to work in conjunction with
the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
There is no final decision on how the military effort would be manned,
but one source said it would likely include personnel from all branches of the military.

The proposal is awaiting final approval from Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
  As a first step, Gates is being asked to sign a so-called "execution order" that would
authorize the military to begin to conduct the detailed planning to execute the proposed plan.
****************************************
When it comes to the U.S. military, the word "assist," of course, could mean almost anything.
Typically, the U.S. military offers assistance at the end of a rifle.
This "assistance" could mean
assisting with quarantines,
assisting with rounding up infected people
or assisting with arresting and
imprisoning people who resist vaccine shots.
Knock KNOCK. "We're here from the pandemic response team," insists the doc.
"We're here to help. Open up or we'll be forced to come in."

"Our records show you haven't received the swine flu vaccine yet,"
squeaks the doctor from behind the bulk of the domineering soldier
now squarely positioned in front of you.
"We're here to administer your vaccine."

http://drtenpenny.com/the_truth_about_the_flu_Shot.aspx


What's in the regular flu shot?



Egg proteins: including avian contaminant viruses
Gelatin: known to cause allergic reactions and anaphylaxis are usually associated with sensitivity to egg or gelatin
Polysorbate 80 (Tween80™): can cause severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis
Formaldehyde: known carcinogen
Triton X100: a strong detergent
Sucrose: table sugar
Resin: known to cause allergic reactions
Gentamycin: an antibiotic
Thimerosal: mercury is still in multidose flu shot vials


Do flu shots work?



Not in babies



In a review of more than 51 studies involving more than 294,000 children it was found there was "no evidence that injecting children 6-24 months of age with a flu shotwas any more effective than placebo. In children over 2 yrs, it was only effective 33% of the time in preventing the flu. Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 2 (2008).



Not in children with asthma



A study 800 children with asthma, where one half were vaccinated and the other half did not receive the influenza vaccine. The two groups were compared with respect to clinic visits, emergency department (ED) visits, and hospitalizations

for asthma. CONCLUSION: This study failed to provide evidence that the influenza vaccine prevents pediatric asthma exacerbations.  Reference: "Effectiveness of influenza vaccine for the prevention of asthma exacerbations." Christly, C. et al. Arch Dis Child. 2004 Aug;89(8):734-5.



Not in children with asthma (2)



"The inactivated flu vaccine, Flumist, does not prevent influenza-related hospitalizations in children, especially the ones with asthma...In fact, children who get the flu vaccine are more at risk for hospitalization than children who

do not get the vaccine." Reference: The American Thoracic Society's 105th International Conference, May 15-20, 2009, San Diego.



Not in adults



In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work." Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).



Not in the Elderly



In a review of 64 studies in 98 flu seasons, For elderly living in nursing homes, flu shots were non-significant for preventing the flu. For elderly living in the community, vaccines were not (significantly) effective against influenza, ILI or pneumonia.

Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in the elderly." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 3(2006).

June 12 Announcement: The new H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine is going to be made by Novartis. It will probably be made in PER.C6 cells (human retina cells) and contain MF59, a potentially debilitating adjuvant.  MF-59 is an oil-based adjuvant primarily composed of squalene, Tween 80 and Span85. All oil adjuvants injected into rats were found toxic. All rats developed an MS-like disease that left them crippled, dragging their paralyzed hindquarters across their cages.

Squalene caused severe arthritis (3 on scale of 4). Squalene in humans at 10-20 ppb (parts per billion) lead to severe immune responses, such as autoimmune arthritis and lupus. Reference: Kenney, RT. Edleman, R. "Survey of human-use adjuvants." Expert Review of Vaccines. 2 (2003) p171. Reference: Matsumoto, Gary. Vaccine A: The Covert Government Experiment That's Killing Our Soldiers and Why GI's Are Only the First Victims of this Vaccine. New York: Basic Books. p54.

Thanks for the numbers, Windpower.

I hope I don't have to resist them as strongly as I plan to. [crz]

Polio, anyone?  

Whoops, that didn't go as planned.  Now WHO will have to make excuses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_re_af/af_med_polio_nigeria

Virus mutates?...... or was meant to destroy in the first place.  WHO is funded by groups who think there are too many people in the world.. especially 3rd world places like Africa.  

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=tallahassee&sParam=35947156.story

If they force it, I'd like to think I'd have the courage to stand up to Big Brother and refuse it, even if that means pain of death.; however in a hypothetical situation like this, you never know how you will truely act until the situation is upon you. Lets all hope and pray that it doesn't, ever, get that far out of hand.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20090815&articleId=14785

Cancer anyone?

I'll take that risk.

If you do the math, the risk or dying from the injection is less than dying from the flu.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on August 18, 2009, 12:59:39 PM
I'll take that risk.

If you do the math, the risk or dying from the injection is less than dying from the flu.

:D

You know sometimes in situations where you have a clear side A and a side B with opposing views the wisest thing to choose is side C.

http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/2003/051503/feature2.html (http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/2003/051503/feature2.html)

 I think everything increases the chance of cancer. :-\

Quote from: peternap on August 18, 2009, 08:55:24 PM
I think everything increases the chance of cancer. :-\

Even Cancer?  :P

Don't know if this was linked to, but it's a short video about the flu shot from a comedy show that used to be on here in Canada.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWfCnjnShnM

As usual - I hope to stay well by avoiding doctors.

Doctors kill more people than guns or so I read. [waiting]

Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 18, 2009, 11:55:37 PM
As usual - I hope to stay well by avoiding doctors.

Doctors kill more people than guns or so I read. [waiting]

You know, there's a lot of truth in that Glenn.
My observation of Doctors is that they are self centered, greedy, unfeeling, SOB's. They could care less if you live or die, just as long as the insurance company covers the bill.

That is in direct contrast to Nurses who I've found to be the real humanitarians of the trade. Unfortunately, they are so restricted by rules and regulations, generally made by Doctors....that they can't legitimately do the job they are so good at. >:(

My rant of the day!

Vaccine induced disease outbreaks .... they care .... yeah....right. [waiting]

http://www.rense.com/general87/indu.htm

http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-5362-0-6-6--.html

Looks like Massachusetts is nearly done for....

I don't know why people are waiting for them to actualy do it. The fact that they are making these laws should be proof enough. The republic is toast. It's all over baby, the whole damn country is in denial. In all these years we never needed such a law and now all the sudden???? Get real!

Totally agreed, Scott.

This is not the country my great grandparents risked their lives for, lost their children for (5 of them), and pioneered.  That country has been stolen.

I'm sure Germany was like this as Hitler grabbed the power.  The citizens could see no wrong.  They were part of the greatest country on earth in their own eyes.  How could there be corruption in their leadership?

Our citizens have been programmed to rely on the government to take care of them.  If they don't snap out of it they will become the next victims....just like the German population.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 30, 2009, 08:16:25 AM

This is not the country my great grandparents risked their lives for, lost their children for (5 of them), and pioneered.  That country has been stolen.

Just for the record, you are talking about America, right?  The America whose first president George Washington declared martial law, and personally commanded 12,000 federal troops to occupy Pennsylvania to collect taxes?  That's the same country your grandparents risked their lives for, right?

Some reading about your country may be in order:

The Whisky Rebellion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky_Rebellion)

A tax to pay off the national debt... no chance of that happening now ... impossible as there is not that much money in the universe.  

I'm not just picking on Obama, Pox.  

I am talking about the whole political, financial and military industrial complex that is in charge now.  Bush had the same puppetmasters.

Actually my ancestors left Lithuania to get out from under Russian oppression and the country they came to was supposed to be a land of freedom and who knows  - maybe at that time there was actually an American dream.  

I can't help that many of our leaders have trampled on our Constitutional rights and other laws and ideals that this country was founded on.  Corruption is hereditary in politicians.

BTW - thanks for the link to the story.  A good one.  My relatives would have been the unjustly overtaxed citizens but they didn't get here until 1889.

I see that true patriotic citizens resisted the Fed successfully there too .... what a great ending.

Makers Refuse vaccine.

http://atomicnewsreview.org/2009/08/28/vaccine-creators-refuse-to-take-h1n1-vaccine/

Still not convinced?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/01/Swine-Flu-Shot-Linked-to-Killer-Nerve-Disease.aspx

48,161,019 Americans received the 1976 swine flu shot.  There were 512 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome linked to the vaccination.  That's one in 94,000.  The CDC predicts that 50% of the country will contract H1N1 virus; my wife has pulmonary fibrosis and alveolitis as a result of scleroderma.  I've done the math; we are getting the vaccination.

I hope the vaccination helps her with no bad side effects.  Please keep us posted.  I can see your position also.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on August 30, 2009, 01:32:31 PMJust for the record, you are talking about America, right?  The America whose first president George Washington declared martial law, and personally commanded 12,000 federal troops to occupy Pennsylvania to collect taxes?  That's the same country your grandparents risked their lives for, right?

Some reading about your country may be in order:

The Whisky Rebellion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky_Rebellion)

By Federal Troops, you mean militia from several states who happened to be under the command of the President and those appointed by him right? According to that article, and Wikipedia isn't the best source to be citing mind you considering anyone can edit it, they didn't occupy, but merely ran around wasting money & time looking for the agitators, of which only 20 were found and only two of those 20 were actually arrested, one later sent free. As that article states, they were exercising their power, which they were in the right to do mind you. As is the way of the Federal Government however, it wasn't handled in the best way possible, mainly that it got involved in something it probably shouldn't have. Not to mention Congress dropped the ball drafting the legislation the way they did. Of course those who rebelled didn't help either, attacking tax collectors and those who were complying with the new federal tax; they were violating those people's and company's rights. That's not a good way to win people over to your side.

I digress, however. I shall not be getting the injection, but all those who do I wish you best and a healthy life  ;D

I also hope any partakers have a good experience but the facts don't agree with the hype.

Flu vaccines for fun and profit, eh?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/26/Flu-Vaccine-Exposed.aspx

Watch the video in the above link if you have time.

The Sheriff says they can stop forced vaccinations as they are not sworn to the Federal government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzC7dmyKG4E

interesting piece of research out from canada.  reputable news source and government agencies, paper is peer reviewed. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/science/study-prompts-provinces-to-rethink-flu-plan/article1303330/

Quote
A "perplexing" Canadian study linking H1N1 to seasonal flu shots is throwing national influenza plans into disarray and testing public faith in the government agencies responsible for protecting the nation's health.

Distributed for peer review last week, the study confounded infectious-disease experts in suggesting that people vaccinated against seasonal flu are twice as likely to catch swine flu.

The paper is under peer review, and lead researchers Danuta Skowronski of the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control and Gaston De Serres of Laval University must stay mum until it's published.

Met with intense early skepticism both in Canada and abroad, the paper has since convinced several provincial health agencies to announce hasty suspensions of seasonal flu vaccinations, long-held fixtures of public-health planning.

"It has confused things very badly," said Dr. Ethan Rubinstein, head of adult infectious diseases at the University of Manitoba. "And it has certainly cost us credibility from the public because of conflicting recommendations. Until last week, there had always been much encouragement to get the seasonal flu vaccine."

On Sunday Quebec joined Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Nova Scotia in suspending seasonal flu shots for anyone under 65 years of age. Quebec's Health Ministry announced it would postpone vaccinations until January, clearing the autumn months for health professionals to focus on vaccinating against H1N1, which is expected to the more severe influenza strain this season.

"By the time the H1N1 wave is over, there will be ample time to vaccinate for seasonal flu," Dr. Rubinstein said.

B.C. is expected to announce a similar suspension during a press conference Monday morning.

Other provinces, including Manitoba, are still pondering a response to the research.

New Brunswick is a lone hold-out, announcing last week it would forge ahead with seasonal flu shots for all residents in October, as originally planned.

So far, the study's impact is confined to Canada. Researchers in the U.S., Britain and Australia have not reported the same phenomenon. Marie-Paule Kieny, the World Health Organization's director of vaccine research, said last week the Canadian findings were an international anomaly and could constitute a "study bias."

An international panel is currently scrutinizing the research data. "The review process has been expedited, so we're hoping for a response within days," said Roy Wadia, spokesman for the B.C. Centre for Disease Control.

Dr. Rubinstein, who has read the study, said it appears sound.

"There are a large number of authors, all of them excellent and credible researchers," he said. "And the sample size is very large – 12 or 13 million people taken from the central reporting systems in three provinces. The research is solid."

The vaccine suspensions do not apply for people over 65. Seniors are considered more susceptible to severe seasonal flu symptoms. At the same time, they carry antibodies from a 1957 pandemic that seem to neutralize the current version of H1N1.

Even if the statistical link is proven, the medical link between seasonal flu shots and H1N1 remains mysterious. One hypothesis suggests seasonal flu vaccine preoccupies the cells that would otherwise produce antibodies against H1N1.

But, according to Dr. Rubinstein, the research shows that people who received the seasonal shot during the 2007-08 flu season remained vulnerable to swine flu well into 2009 – an interval that should provide most immune systems ample restoration time.

"We don't understand the mechanism," Dr. Rubinstein said. "At the present time it is quite perplexing."

Muldoon I live in B.C and I was reading through to see if anyone has mentioned this but you had. 

Where I live flu vaccines are being suspended because they think they are causing H1N1

but there isnt much news or worry about swine flu here Im pretty sure its all made up. 

That was the plan all along.  There are too many of us.  That is why it is threatened to be made mandatory.  Baxter admitted sending out live virus to get a jump on the flu bug... but only after they were caught.

http://www.timesnews.net/blogger.php?id=4&postid=7522

Swine flu vax refusal tea party.... [waiting]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMqYlnAiIUU&feature=player_embedded

http://spktruth2power.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/navy-ships-breaking-out-with-swine-flu-after-h1n1-vaccinations-five-turning-back-from-mission/#


Data gleaned indirectly from anonymous testimony of Navy wives of the affected crew via the internet radio show A Marine Disquisition!

From Bob Chapman's International Forecaster

1) Unnamed US Navy vessel put to sea in April with 347 man crew.

2) Entire crew was vaccinated with H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine shortly after they put to sea.

3) Crew sickened so severely that other ships had to respond to render aid. 16 Medical Dr.s put aboard from an unnamed aircraft carrier and other responding vessels. Total of 50 Navy personnel sent aboard to respond to crisis.

4) Two of the crew of 347 died – including the Captain of the ship (a Lieutenant Commander) and a Chief Petty Officer.

5) 50 personnel sent aboard to help are quarantined in Navy hospital in Balboa, Spain after 10 of them caught the flu from the ship's crew. Two of the 50 quarantined are in serious condition at last report.

6) Of the 347 man crew that were vaccinated, 333 contracted the H1N1 flu FROM THE VACCINE. Two died, as mentioned above, and 331 survived. Only 14 of the 347 vaccinated sailors did not show any ill effects from the vaccine.

7) Navy has threatened all the spouses of the ship's crew to remain silent – claiming all this information is classified. Some are whistle-blowing and that is where this information is coming from.

8) On the unnamed aircraft carrier that provided assistance, 415 sailors contracted the swine flu and are currently quarantined onboard.

9) The truth is that the swine flu epidemic will be created BY THE VACCINE. If we don't take it, there will be no epidemic. From this one test it's apparent that the vaccine as tested on that ship's crew in April is 96% effective at infecting the recipient with swine flu. Such an infection rate is impossible to achieve by any natural means. Though it only killed 1% immediately, there is no telling what the long term effects on those injected with the vaccine will be. See the research on the long term effects of the 1976 swine flu vaccine, and the Gulf War anthrax vaccine programs for more information.

10) Also note that mere contact with those that have been vaccinated creates a 20% chance of you contracting the swine flu even if you have not been vaccinated.

The U.S. Navy has "OVER" 5 U.S. Navy Ships TURNING BACK FROM MAJOR ORDERS OF TRANSPORT TO "MIDDLE EAST WAR ZONE"

NAVY & COMBAT MARINES AIR WINGS, AND GROUND TROOPS

***UNABLE TO FULLFILL THEIR DUTIES****

At present confirmed 1 a/c carrier

2 destroyers

1 helicopter a/c carrier over 30,000 assorted Military, mostly USN & USMC

Some Coast Guard, National Guard & some Air Force.

Semper Fi, Drew Malone; Raines III
Master Electronics Engineer
USMC 1967-1977
Owner: H.E.A.R.T. & Associates
1983-Present
3423 Avery Road
Little Rock, Arkansas 72209
http://www.amd.elequity.com

US Navy
Pandemic Influenca Policy PDF File
Click Here

Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 02, 2009, 12:39:44 AM
http://www.timesnews.net/blogger.php?id=4&postid=7522

Swine flu vax refusal tea party.... [waiting]

rofl [rofl2]

I was trying to stay out of this one,  but I lost it at this.  So a large group of people who are against immunization want to congregate during flu season? 
rofl

Also number 10 on the list above, people that are being vaccinated are people most at risk, like children and the elderly.  So even if they weren't vaccinated and you had regular contact with children or the elderly you would be more likely to contract any virus.  The claims of this guy seem to over the top to be credible.  The vaccine has already been given to tens of thousands of children and pregnant woman.  Even if you were to believe that Mid twenties healthy men are as likely to die from H1N1 as pregnant woman and children, we would already be stacking the bodies high and deep right now.  Along these same claims 4-9 year olds are being vaccinated in a 2 part vaccination this week.  At a 96% infection rate and a higher mortality rate for children, this means in the next two weeks we should have a few hundred thousand children dead.

I will let you know how it works out. Maybe I will be in the 4% that don't get it.

We will watch you and Pox, Squirl.  :)

Windpower,

I posted this once but apparently military put out a counter story claiming this one was a hoax.  

It is now my opinion that the counter story is a hoax and that this is the true story as more and more whistle blowers come forward indicating that the original story was true.

This agrees with the story that the Vaccine is a bio-weapon meant to create the pandemic and with the resurection of the 1918 virus a few years ago from DNA.  I knew at the time I heard of this absurd criminal act that it would appear in our near future as part of a population control ploy.  

We have to look at our criminal leadership and their associates for what they really are if we want to increase our chances of survival for a longer period of time.  We must keep our eyes open and not only see what we want to believe is true.  Our leadership and their associates are not benevolent.

They have the money and power.  We are breathing their air.  We must be made to stop.

Now, I don't want you to get from my posts that I disagree with naysayers.  It was the people who didn't go with the company line that exposed tobacco, asbestos, and many other problems.  But the logic seams to have some flaws.  If it was for population control, why would they give it to the military?  Disabling the military industrial regime seems counter intuitive to creating a pandemic.  That just seams like anarchy.  According to the article over 30,000 troops are disabled.  Isn't that equivalent to 1/4 of our forces in Iraq and more than the entire force in Afghanistan.  The military can't even control those countries and they are a tiny portion of the size of the U.S.

We are only breeders for the production of subjects to be used by the military/government military industrial complex as needed.  Destroying our economy and taking jobs away insures plenty of people at the ends of their ropes and thus willing volunteers for the military.

They are often used as guinea pigs as are the US population at large.

There are plenty more where they came from.  The ships are an isolated testing ground to prove the effectiveness of their vaccine.

I agree that the article has some flaws.  They also can assume that most of the troops or affected persons will recover from the disability.  Possible they just want to get real numbers as to the effectiveness of their weapon. 

I don't have ALL of the answers. :)

Quote from: Windpower on October 02, 2009, 09:51:33 AM

1) Unnamed US Navy vessel put to sea in April with 347 man crew.

2) Entire crew was vaccinated with H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine shortly after they put to sea.

I call baloney.  There was no swine flu vaccine in April.

I posted this article a few months ago, worth reading about the CDC research...   http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/jan1404hybrids.html  or go to http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/general/pandemic_nonsense:_flying_pig_flu_20090428118/ for more sources...  

CDC to mix avian, human flu viruses in pandemic study  (just a portion of article - go to link for entire article)

Robert Roos * News Editor

Jan 14, 2004 (CIDRAP News) – One of the worst fears of infectious disease experts is that the H5N1 avian influenza virus now circulating in parts of Asia will combine with a human-adapted flu virus to create a deadly new flu virus that could spread around the world.

That could happen, scientists predict, if someone who is already infected with an ordinary flu virus contracts the avian virus at the same time. The avian virus has already caused at least 48 confirmed human illness cases in Asia, of which 35 have been fatal. The virus has shown little ability to spread from person to person, but the fear is that a hybrid could combine the killing power of the avian virus with the transmissibility of human flu viruses.

Now, rather than waiting to see if nature spawns such a hybrid, US scientists are planning to try to breed one themselves—in the name of preparedness.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will soon launch experiments designed to combine the H5N1 virus and human flu viruses and then see how the resulting hybrids affect animals. The goal is to assess the chances that such a "reassortant" virus will emerge and how dangerous it might be.

CDC officials confirmed the plans for the research as described recently in media reports, particularly in a Canadian Press (CP) story.

You won't be getting me or most of my co-workers (particularly the nurses) to take the H1N1 vaccine.  Many of those same nurses work at other hospitals & say that their co-workers won't be getting the vaccine.  We see too many people come in to the ER sicker than a dog after receiving the regular flu shots, let alone the H1N1 vaccine!  The patient's classic "haven't got a clue" comment "I just got the flu shot."

First, I will not get the H1N1 shot but that's becuase I don't get any Flu shots and have been Flu free for nearly 20 years.  I did, however, take them when in the Marine Corps (mandatory) but also never got the Flu then either.

Second, one of my employees got the shot and is now sick with the flu.  Nice.

Third, the last time the Government did this they were wrong, killed many people and made even more sick.  Nice.

Lastly, I just don't trust the bastards.

At least you have a good attitude about it. :)

Sassy is an RN at the VA.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 03, 2009, 02:58:34 PM
At least you have a good attitude about it. :)

Sassy is an RN at the VA.

Thanks Sassy for taking care of Veterans. It's a tough job I'm sure.

Me?  I'm a veteran and refuse to go to the VA any longer (sorry Sassy).  It's government bureaucracy at it's best from what I've seen and I got so tired of it I refuse to return.  I get TEN TIMES better care from Civilian doctors and hospitals.

No offense Sassy, I know there are good people at the VA (my wifes Uncle works there too) but I just refuse to be subjected to Government Bureaucracy any longer.

Isn't it great that you have the freedom to choose between private health care and a public option?  I am  amazed that the private system hasn't folded because of the unfair competition from the VA.

Yep, there's a lot of bureaucracy & getting worse.  A lot of the Vets get frustrated.  I think we give pretty good care in the ER but there are so many clinical guidelines for the docs to follow - if you have diabetes you have to be on these medications, if you have high blood pressure, the docs are required to put you on other meds, etc etc.  If they don't follow those guidelines the docs get talked to & the hospital doesn't get as much money allotted to them - each VA is graded by these guidelines.  There are also "reminders" that mostly the nurses are responsible for - like did you do your FOBT test (fecal occult blood test) or colonoscopy, did you get all your vaccinations, are you depressed or suicidal, did you experience "military sexual harrassment" - the list goes on & on - in some ways it is good, but in other ways, it is very intrusive.  If the patient doesn't want to takes the meds, or get the vaccines or answer the questions, he is "non-compliant."  In trying to give everyone the same quality of care, they've gone overboard in some respects.

Now, in ER, the 1st question we have to ask when we triage someone is if they are suicidal or homicidal.   Yes, there are a lot of active military & veterans who are attempting or have committed suicide, there are also a lot of them with PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder) & depression.  A lot with anger issues (after all, they were taught to fight & kill the enemy - it's not always easy to shut that off, especially after doing or being forced to do 2,3 & sometimes 4 tours).  It's sad to see ruined lives...  especially when they come back after putting their lives on the line & see that our gov't is not on the up & up & there's questions as to whether we should really be over there.  

It's not the politicians sons & daughters who are going to war, it's the little guy that's the pawn - the criminal leaders need to be put in front of a firing squad.  

Quote from: Sassy on October 03, 2009, 10:46:30 PM
Yep, there's a lot of bureaucracy & getting worse.  A lot of the Vets get frustrated.  I think we give pretty good care in the ER but there are so many clinical guidelines for the docs to follow - if you have diabetes you have to be on these medications, if you have high blood pressure, the docs are required to put you on other meds, etc etc.  If they don't follow those guidelines the docs get talked to & the hospital doesn't get as much money allotted to them - each VA is graded by these guidelines.  There are also "reminders" that mostly the nurses are responsible for - like did you do your FOBT test (fecal occult blood test) or colonoscopy, did you get all your vaccinations, are you depressed or suicidal, did you experience "military sexual harrassment" - the list goes on & on - in some ways it is good, but in other ways, it is very intrusive.  If the patient doesn't want to takes the meds, or get the vaccines or answer the questions, he is "non-compliant."  In trying to give everyone the same quality of care, they've gone overboard in some respects.

Now, in ER, the 1st question we have to ask when we triage someone is if they are suicidal or homicidal.   Yes, there are a lot of active military & veterans who are attempting or have committed suicide, there are also a lot of them with PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder) & depression.  A lot with anger issues (after all, they were taught to fight & kill the enemy - it's not always easy to shut that off, especially after doing or being forced to do 2,3 & sometimes 4 tours).  It's sad to see ruined lives...  especially when they come back after putting their lives on the line & see that our gov't is not on the up & up & there's questions as to whether we should really be over there.  

It's not the politicians sons & daughters who are going to war, it's the little guy that's the pawn - the criminal leaders need to be put in front of a firing squad.  

'tis amazing -- you ought to go on Glenn Beck's show and tell that to the world.

Me?  No thanks!  I'll take the Civilian sector.

As for 'private' health care, I won't argue that it needs improvement.  Heck, it needs a LOT of work -- but I'll be damned if I support the idiotic notion that the Government ought to be the ones running it.  Plain stupid nonsense.

it's fixable as it is, but it requires those whining and crying and screaming for Government/Public Health Care to shut up and sit down so those of us who actually give a damn (socialists don't give a damn, that's why they want someone else to fix the problem) to get in there and fix things.

No. 1 -- TORT Reform
No. 2 -- Get rid of Government forced Employer benifits
No. 3 -- Get rid of 'pre-pay' health care or start 'Health Insurance' something we DON'T currently have.

Ever wonder why you can buy a MILLION dollars worth of life insurance for 1/10 or 1/20th of the cost of Health Care WHEN YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO DIE and they do to?

People, think about the above statement for a little.  And don't tell me it's the greedy pigs at the top of the system -- the same type of people run the FAR FAR cheaper life insurance companies -- often the same companies....but you pay how much more?   Come on!

Car insurance is also far cheaper -- why?  You might not ever have a car accident. 

Doctors have to practice "defensive medicine."  That means that they have to order every test known to man in order to protect themselves from lawsuits.  Yes, we do need tort reform.  Doctors can't be doctors anymore - they used to do a physical assessment & history to find out what was going on with the patient.  Now, there are so many tests, machines, etc to diagnose - which is good in ways but also not necessary in many cases.  But you don't do a test & it comes back that the patient has what the test would have shown or worse dies...  so that means EVERYONE has to do these tests...  all the exposure to radiation, all the blood tests...  then the chemo & the vaccines...  I could go on & on.  I used to recommend friends go into nursing...  but lately, I'm changing my mind about that.  I'm glad I'm about to retire - who knows what things will be like if they force this healthcare fiasco through. 

This forced vaccinations of healthcare workers has everyone up in arms...  if they want to see a fight - wait 'til all of them walk out on the job...  then whose gonna take care of the people?

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on October 03, 2009, 10:45:17 PM
Isn't it great that you have the freedom to choose between private health care and a public option?  I am  amazed that the private system hasn't folded because of the unfair competition from the VA.

Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 03, 2009, 11:58:31 PM

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on October 03, 2009, 10:45:17 PM
Isn't it great that you have the freedom to choose between private health care and a public option?  I am  amazed that the private system hasn't folded because of the unfair competition from the VA.

Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

Actually, it is Obama's intention to get rid of Private Health Care of any sort.  he's said it as plainly as that.

The Socialists have always known that they can convince you to let them take care of you, it was just a matter of time and at the moment they've got less then 50% (something like 41% now) support in polls but they don't care.  Why?  becuase the final nail in the coffin in the American system is to get Government run health care.  Then the constitution gets thrown out the window and it's United Socialist States of America.

All thanks to the morons who think Uncle Sam should take care of them and don't worry he will ;)

I don't want him to take care of me and I will not allow him to take care of me. 

I nearly blew a gasket when the county lady in town told me that if the grid runs through here I had to attach to it.  Solar power is not reliable enough.  She said if I wouldn't take care of myself the State of California would take care of me.  Under my breath I said, "Over my dead body."

Funny - the grid goes down here every couple of months.  I hardly ever have a problem and then I know why if I do.

Since I was just checking for someone else I didn't want to start a riot.  I like to fly under the radar. :)

Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 04, 2009, 01:06:39 AM
I don't want him to take care of me and I will not allow him to take care of me. 

I nearly blew a gasket when the county lady in town told me that if the grid runs through here I had to attach to it.  Solar power is not reliable enough.  She said if I wouldn't take care of myself the State of California would take care of me.  Under my breath I said, "Over my dead body."

Funny - the grid goes down here every couple of months.  I hardly ever have a problem and then I know why if I do.

Since I was just checking for someone else I didn't want to start a riot.  I like to fly under the radar. :)

Typical Socialist.

You should have told her:  "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" and explained that Liberty was the freedom to fail so piss off!

I know I should have but, I just went out and did what I wanted to anyway.

Isn't it funny how the parasites urge you to do things that will generate more cash just to support their sucking on the teat of the working class for their entire lifetime.  Just more welfare recipients.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 03, 2009, 11:58:31 PM
Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

This is incorrect.  The public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.  All others who choose the public option will pay a premium, just as you do for private health insurance. If you don't choose the public option, you don't pay the premium.  It has been stressed over and over that the public option will be self sustaining, with no increase to the deficit.  You may not believe that, but it is incorrect to claim that it was designed as free healthcare for everyone, paid for by taxes.  That is just wrong.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on October 04, 2009, 02:15:05 PM

Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 03, 2009, 11:58:31 PM
Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

This is incorrect.  The public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.  All others who choose the public option will pay a premium, just as you do for private health insurance. If you don't choose the public option, you don't pay the premium.  It has been stressed over and over that the public option will be self sustaining, with no increase to the deficit.  You may not believe that, but it is incorrect to claim that it was designed as free healthcare for everyone, paid for by taxes.  That is just wrong.

*chuckle*  I have a bridge I'd like to sell you too.

President Obama has clearly stated that he wants to institute a single payer health care system run by the government and funded by taxes.  Period.  He also explains that since that is too hard to convince the American people to do that it's better to start with something less intrusive and work towards the single payer system.  I'll post links to this shortly.

In truth, any government program will involve Medicaid and Medicare which are both "Free" to those who did not pay enough in taxes to pay for their care.  They are tax payer funded and going broke fast.  It's Government care at it's finest -- bankrupt.

And to assume that Mr. Obama wouldn't dare force you to use his Government/Public Option is about as naive as thinking that my Uncle in Nairobi has 20 million dollars and if you send me $5000 today I'll send you the $20 million tomorrow -- just as soon as I cash the check from you of course becuase I need it to escape the federalies before they take all the money, but you can have half if you just send the 5 grand today -- I promise.

You are naive and a dreamer -- perhaps maybe only 17 too.  The reality is that this is a power grab and nothing more.  After all, there are plenty of ways to fix the system without making it a government system -- but there's only ONE WAY to give health coverage to the poor who can't afford to pay for it and that's by taking from the haves and giving to the have nots.  And in case you were educated here in America that's not the American way.  It's the Russian/Chinese/Fascist German/Marxist Cuban/Socialist way....you know, the way that always fails.

Please, read Atlas Shrugged and then perhaps the Constitution and Common Sense and then lets talk again.
Erik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

What say you?  This makes it clear.

Argument over.

QuoteThe public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.

Perhaps taxes is the wrong word. Extortion might be a better word since they claim it's not a tax but you'll still be forced to pay it.

Quote from: ScottA on October 04, 2009, 06:35:51 PM

QuoteThe public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.

Perhaps taxes is the wrong word. Extortion might be a better word since they claim it's not a tax but you'll still be forced to pay it.

Anything that you have to pay is a tax.  A dog is a dog no matter how much you try to dress it up like a person.

It's funny though how those in favor or Government intrusion in their lives and the loss of Liberty always try to find new and creative ways to define things like 'tax'.  For example, they claim that fee for registering your car is not a tax however, just like 'official' taxes the fee goes to support Government.  How is it not a tax?

Heck, why register for that matter?  Aren't in the land of the free and the home of the brave and aren't we supposed to be innocent until proven guilty?

I vote for voluntary registration of your vehicle -- as well as voluntary insurance.

Oh by the way, in my world if you have an accident criminal proceedings would ensue and if found 'guilty' (at fault) then you'd pay for damages out of your own pocket and if that means you go bankrupt oh well.

You see, I won't force you to buy insurance but you damn sure better not have an accident that's your fault :)  That's the way it ought to be and oh, then insurance would be MUCH cheaper!

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 04, 2009, 05:15:48 PM

Please, read Atlas Shrugged and then perhaps the Constitution and Common Sense and then lets talk again.
Erik

I've read Atlas Shrugged, and Von Mises as well. Both are self-indulgent mental masturbation with no relevence to a society of 300 million.  By the way, I'm 55 years old, so you can keep your smug insults to yourself.  Anybody who is so easily taken in by Glenn Beck clearly lacks the critical thinking skills to participate in adult debate. 

This life is not without risk----no one has ever made it out of here alive yet---not even Jesus was able to do that. We do not get to choose, or avoid, all that we will face.

You pays your money and takes your chances----Good luck to all of you!

Conspiracy enthusiasts-----I am sure you are right----someone or something is out to get you and sooner or later they will succeed and you can go to your fate joyously yelling; "I was right, I told you so".

I will meet my fate also but, I won't look for it behind every tree.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on October 04, 2009, 10:54:50 PM

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 04, 2009, 05:15:48 PM

Please, read Atlas Shrugged and then perhaps the Constitution and Common Sense and then lets talk again.
Erik

I've read Atlas Shrugged, and Von Mises as well. Both are self-indulgent mental masturbation with no relevence to a society of 300 million.  By the way, I'm 55 years old, so you can keep your smug insults to yourself.  Anybody who is so easily taken in by Glenn Beck clearly lacks the critical thinking skills to participate in adult debate. 

The very fact that this upsets you and causes you to react the way you did here proves my point.

Atlas is very relevant to a population of 300 million, it's only progressives etc who would argue otherwise.

As for Beck, he's not been proven wrong on anything other then perhaps semantics so just what are you saying? 

Critical thinking?  Seriously, is that all you've got to say in response to Obama's own words?  The argument is over whether you are 55 or 15.  As for Critical thinking, there are critical thinkers who are communists, fascists, capitalists and indeed every other political ideology or belief.  It's a lack of critical thinking that suggests one can't think critically because they suggest maybe you are too young to understand.

On the other hand, the very fact that you are 55 and still believe these things suggests either that you don't think critically, or intentionally espouse the mantra of the socialist/marxist/progressive left.

Have you read Common Sense?  (and I'm talking about THE Common Sense and not Becks by the way) The Constitution?  Do you except that all Socialist nations have failed?

The fact is big government breeds big government and does not improve what it takes over.  Ever.

As for the Conspiracy types -- sorry, some are just so far out there.  But then again, we all are to some degree or another.

After all, those who poo poo the 911 truthers are often the very same that accuse Bush of many horrible things -- why?  becuase you like to be on one side or another.  It's human nature.

I choose to be on the American side ;)

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 05, 2009, 12:15:01 AM

The fact is big government breeds big government and does not improve what it takes over.  Ever.

The US Military. The Interstate Highway system.  The Apollo Missions.  The National Parks System.  I could go on and on, but I think four is enough to utterly destroy your unfounded statement.  Period.

Quote

Do you except that all Socialist nations have failed?

If you are talking about countries with universal health care, you are woefully misinformed.  France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada; they all have government managed health care.  Are they socialist countries?  Have they failed?

And as for pure socialism, I think China would be amused by the rumors of its demise.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on October 05, 2009, 12:42:03 AM

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 05, 2009, 12:15:01 AM

The fact is big government breeds big government and does not improve what it takes over.  Ever.

The US Military. The Interstate Highway system.  The Apollo Missions.  The National Parks System.  I could go on and on, but I think four is enough to utterly destroy your unfounded statement.  Period.

Quote

Do you except that all Socialist nations have failed?

If you are talking about countries with universal health care, you are woefully misinformed.  France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada; they all have government managed health care.  Are they socialist countries?  Have they failed?

And as for pure socialism, I think China would be amused by the rumors of its demise.

While the military was buying up $500 hammers and $500 toilet seats and adopting 'Affirmative Action' and 'Equal Opportunity' policy I'm not sure you want to make that statement.  Would I want a private military?  No.  I do beleive this is a proper function of Government -- smaller Government -- and it can be done right and improved.  And I've got nearly 9 years of active military service in two branches.  But even the left would agree that the post Vietnam Military had many issues -- it's not without it's problems.

However, the military IS something that is Constitutional and clearly called for and funded in accordance with the Constitution.  So at least there is that and it can improve.

The Interstate Highway system was indeed one heck of a program and while there were issues with it I'd have to say you got me there for the most part.  One point on that one though is that the bill to put it into action was only a few pages (27 maybe?) versus the idiotic 'Big Government' 1000+ page bills of today.  So while you may have a point here, it's not really comparing apples to oranges since Government is FAR FAR bigger today.

But let me ask you, was this something that should be done by the Federal Government?  Or the State Governments?  Or could Private Enterprise done the job?  I would only suggest that you look at the Railroads which few would disagree they were an amazing achievement.  And they were done not by the Federal Government but by private enterprise -- so, could not private industry done the job?  Would they eventually have done so?

My argument is that 'Big Government' is the problem not the solution -- perhaps you missed that or perhaps I didn't make that clear.  I'll go back and check and if I did not make that clear, I apologize for my lack of clarity.  If I did, well...

The Apollo Missions were a success by any measure.  You are correct - but I ask you this:  Was this also Big Government?  The Government of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"?  Sure it was Big, but not like today my friend.

However, I will admit that we did do that and it worked and turned out well in the end -- though it could be argued it was also a colossal waste of tax payers dollars and that the private sector could have done better at it...and you see, we'll never know will we?  Why not?  Becuase we have NOTHING to compare it to.  So it may well yet be proven that the private sector can do a better job -- again, we won't know unless the private sector gets involved at this level and Government doesn't stop them.

But one things for sure, the private sector would do it cheaper.

The National Parks?  I encourage everyone out there interested in this stuff to read:  The Really Inconvenient Truths; Seven Environmental Disasters Liberals Don't want you to know about.  Why?  Becuase the National Parks are talked about in length -- and the horrific management of them, the wildfires, the pollution, destruction etc caused by Federal and State mismanagement.

Does the Government really do this better then private industry?  The question, perhaps, should be:  should they?

Don't get me wrong, government is needed, absolutely.  Just not big huge massive government.

As for health care, only those on the left who refuse to hear evidence to the contrary would make that statement.  I for one lived in Canada for 20 years and witnessed first hand their failed health care system -- as well as used the VA system here which is also inferior to the private system.

As for Socialist, yes they are to one degree or another and yes they have been failing, but as much as you'd like to think it happens immediately, it doesn't.  It takes time.  In the case of Canada, they are now looking to move away from the Public health care option since it's broke and are now working for a private system.  amazing.  In the meantime the EU is now saying Capitalism is good and maybe we ought to give that a try in many cases.

But I digress.  What you advocate is throwing out the Constitution, ignoring it and it's intent and recreating this nation in some other fashion that has not and does not work.  

hmm I thought the Apollo missions were all done on a movie studio lot out in the California desert.  I saw a clip of the lighting falling during the filming.  

Sorry I don't have time to jump in deeper.  I worked late and have to leave early.  Have fun. :)

A bad reaction to seasonal shots.  Disabled for life.

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=7833

Any experiences good or bad with the shots?

Judge Halts Flu Vaccine Mandate For Health Workers
New York Health Care Employees Won't Be Forced To Get H1N1 Vaccine...For Now

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/mandatory.h1n1.vaccine.2.1252672.html

I got my seasonal shot last week.  No side effects, not even a sore arm.  I am trying to get my swine flu shot before I travel to California at the end of the month.

It now appears that the supply of swine flu vaccinations is being held up by manufacturing delays (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-swine-flu17-2009oct17,0,4189877.story).  The government can't even manage their own evil plot efficiently!   ;)

If you travel to California, you will need it, Pox.  There are a lot of swine here. [waiting]

The plot.... it's like Russian Roulette.  They can't kill us all immediately.... that would be too obvious.... [crz]

Thanks for the good report.

If you get near Yosemite, drop in.  We are nearby. :)

Thanks Glenn, I would love to see the Hobbit Hole!  Unfortunately, I will be in mostly LA and behind the Orange Curtain (San Clemente), out to Victorville, and maybe as far north as Bakersfield. 

By they way, it's too bad you didn't go on that TV show, "What's Up With That House!".  I use to watch it all the time, you would be in good company!

Thanks, Pox.  The invite is always open if you make it this way.

We have been on a few other public things but I didn't figure the risks outweighed the benefits on that one. :)

Quote from: Sassy on October 03, 2009, 12:11:41 PM
I posted this article a few months ago, worth reading about the CDC research...   http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/jan1404hybrids.html  or go to http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/general/pandemic_nonsense:_flying_pig_flu_20090428118/ for more sources...  

CDC to mix avian, human flu viruses in pandemic study  (just a portion of article - go to link for entire article)

Robert Roos * News Editor

Jan 14, 2004 (CIDRAP News) – One of the worst fears of infectious disease experts is that the H5N1 avian influenza virus now circulating in parts of Asia will combine with a human-adapted flu virus to create a deadly new flu virus that could spread around the world.

That could happen, scientists predict, if someone who is already infected with an ordinary flu virus contracts the avian virus at the same time. The avian virus has already caused at least 48 confirmed human illness cases in Asia, of which 35 have been fatal. The virus has shown little ability to spread from person to person, but the fear is that a hybrid could combine the killing power of the avian virus with the transmissibility of human flu viruses.

Now, rather than waiting to see if nature spawns such a hybrid, US scientists are planning to try to breed one themselves—in the name of preparedness.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will soon launch experiments designed to combine the H5N1 virus and human flu viruses and then see how the resulting hybrids affect animals. The goal is to assess the chances that such a "reassortant" virus will emerge and how dangerous it might be.

CDC officials confirmed the plans for the research as described recently in media reports, particularly in a Canadian Press (CP) story.

You won't be getting me or most of my co-workers (particularly the nurses) to take the H1N1 vaccine.  Many of those same nurses work at other hospitals & say that their co-workers won't be getting the vaccine.  We see too many people come in to the ER sicker than a dog after receiving the regular flu shots, let alone the H1N1 vaccine!  The patient's classic "haven't got a clue" comment "I just got the flu shot."

Thought this was worth posting again...

New info from Dr. Mercola and Dr Blaylock

http://products.mercola.com/swine-flu/20091103.htm

http://blogs.healthfreedomalliance.org/blog/2009/10/21/nurses-got-sick-from-the-swine-flu-vaccine-in-sweden-%e2%80%a2-update-190-adverse-reactions-1-suspected-death/

Hmmm, ... the USA has been slow to deliver the voluntary doses of H1N1 shots to citizens ... approx 4000 have died thusfar:
http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/11/12/22-million-sickened-by-swine-flu-in-6-months.html.

... on the other hand, the more populous China, the biggest of the "Big Brothers", the most Satan of 'em all ... has, all along, been forcing vaccinations on its poor people.  According to the Public TV news today ... only 36 of those poor Chinese have died thus far from Swine Flu.  (Of course, these are probably all "lies"!)

Well, I ain't going to China ... and my government isn't gonna make the rest of you take the shot .... so, just like Pox Eclipse, I'm hunting the needle!

G/L JRR.  Here's hoping you have no problems.

Poland just said no to the vaccine for the entire country.

Well, I finally got my swine flu shot.

I feel fine.  See for yourself:

Pox, you are looking damn good.  I think I may go get one now.... [waiting]

Two (Ohio) sheriffs deputies hold boy down while he was forcibly vaccinated w h1n1 swine flu shot

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/16812

It's a government pushed scam among other things.  Check out the investigative report.  13700 suspected tested in Ca. 86% not flu at all.  Follow the money. 

From other sources, the politicians have stock in pharma co's.  Obama was reported to have stock in Baxter. 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/24/Superstar-CBS-Reporter-Blows-the-Lid-Off-the-Swine-Flu-Media-Hype-and-Hysteria.aspx

Only posting to let you make your own informed decision.  I felt this was important enough for affected ones to consider.

Swine Flu Alert -- Shocking Vaccine Miscarriage Horror Stories‏

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/28/Shocking-Swine-Flu-Vaccine-Miscarriage-Stories.aspx

Glen, I don't see anything in that story about miscarriages that shows that those who got swine flu shots had a higher rate of miscarriage than those who did not.  Did I miss something?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2116

Heh.

The About site has the stories of the miscarriages in the comments section.

A few:

QuoteOctober 9, 2009 at 2:41 pm
(1) Jo says:
I got the flu vaccine (regular not H1N1) at 8 weeks pregnant. Three days later I miscarried. I am not going to get the H1N1.
October 26, 2009 at 11:07 am
(2) Regrets says:
I got both vaccines on Thursday. I was 9 weeks pregnant. I miscarried on Sunday. I was told by several doctors to get these vaccines. Now I wish I followed my gut feeling and not get them at ALL!
October 29, 2009 at 8:33 am
(3) :( says:
i work in a hospital like setting and was told 'the benefits outweigh the risks" 1am i got the vaccine, 3am i started bleeding and craming, 3pm miscarried. you decide
October 31, 2009 at 1:29 pm
(4) sue says:
I had the H1N1 vaccination and 24 hours later had a miscarriage.
October 31, 2009 at 8:25 pm
(5) Linda Hill says:
My daughter in law was 10 weeks pregnant and had the H1N1 vaccine on Friday that night she miscarried.
November 1, 2009 at 9:58 pm
(6) Stephanie says:
I received the H1N1 over a week ago. I am now 5 weeks. I am doing well so far.

The story itself was only bringing up the fear.  The comments are the experiences.  Yeah - I know - it's the internet, but I doubt so many women would choose amuse themselves writing false miscarriage stories.

I didn't go through the other links.

Quote from: RainDog on November 28, 2009, 01:57:43 PM

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2116

Heh.

I liked this comment from your referenced link

"#
# Periwinkleblueon 16 Oct 2009 at 2:58 pm

Re: #4 – Did you miss the article on the WHO website admitting to the mock vaccines? Here you go:

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/notes/h1n1_safety_vaccines_20090805/en/index.html

Some excerpts:

Ways were sought to shorten the time between the emergence of a pandemic virus and the availability of safe and effective vaccines. Different regulatory pathways were assessed, and precautions needed to ensure quality, safety, and effectiveness were set out in detail.

and

Also in Europe, some manufacturers have conducted advance studies using a so-called "mock-up" vaccine. Mock-up vaccines contain an active ingredient for an influenza virus that has not circulated recently in human populations and thus mimics the novelty of a pandemic virus. Such advance studies can greatly expedite regulatory approval.

Yep – there you go. I simply typed in "WHO admits mock vaccine" in Google and found it.

Anyone here want to sign up to be the next test vaccination receivers on the next "mock" vaccine in Europe?
"

While Dr. Mercola and others may get mud slung at them sometimes - maybe sometimes deservedly however I haven't noticed any mal-intent, it is safer to err on the side of caution and investigate the information and links they provide if you don't want to take their word for it - which you of course shouldn't.

Likewise, if the mud slingers are only saying what you thought you wanted to hear, then you should investigate their claims also and hopefully find a middle ground.

There is more information coming in on this untested vaccine all of the time.  Many of the guinea pigs are reporting problems.  Many are not.  A bit of Russian roulette, eh? [waiting]

I don't doubt that women have miscarriages after the flu shot.  They also have miscarriages after breakfast, after they have their hair done and after the Oprah Show.  Correlation does not imply causation.  Show me the miscarriage statistics on two groups; women who got the shot, and women who didn't.   If one group is bigger than the other I will be surprised, and I will concede the point if it is the group who got shots.  That is the way science works, not random anecdotal stories with no basis to determine whether they are significant or not.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on November 28, 2009, 07:22:33 PM
Correlation does not imply causation.  Show me the miscarriage statistics on two groups; women who got the shot, and women who didn't.   

That is correct. Too many stats are bandied about with only a portion of the data shown.

Since the vaccine has not even been tested except with no risk government protection on citizen guinea pigs, then I would also have to say show me a study that proves the vaccine did not cause the miscarriages as these women state.

It does make sense to consider these women's experiences if the possibility that they are right exists.  

I think the doctor covered your comments in his article,

"Flu vaccine manufacturers clearly indicate that safety and effectiveness of their flu vaccines have not been established for pregnant women and nursing mothers. Ditto for their H1N1 vaccines.

   The source links above contain personal stories of heartbreak – women who lost their babies just hours or days after getting the H1N1 vaccine this year. Naturally, the standard comeback is that miscarriages are commonplace, and surely have nothing to do with the vaccine. However, to simply dismiss these events as "coincidences" is a serious mistake.

   Perhaps some of the 20 women on one of the blogs would have miscarried anyway, but when a number of women have healthy, uneventful pregnancies up until they're injected with a vaccine, and then suddenly miscarry, it most certainly warrants investigation!"

The problem with what you just stated, Pox, is most docs won't admit that any reaction is caused from the vaccines.  Glenn's granddaughter had a febrile seizure a few hours after getting her cocktail of vaccinations a little over a year ago - the doc said it had nothing to do with the shot  ::)

One of the docs I work with took her 4 y/o daughter to get her vaccinations - a couple days later, she had a nasty infection in her leg.  The pediatrician acted like the mother (a general practitioner) was stupid because she attributed the infection to the vaccine - after all, it occurred in the same place the vaccine was given.

One of my granddaughters had a red, very painful, swollen arm from her last cocktail of vaccinations.

NEVER has there been a time that kids got so many vaccines.  They give 3,4 & 5 vaccines together in one shot.  By highschool, if they get all the vaccines that they are told they need to get & most schools require that they get, they've rec'd 25 vaccines!  And they keep adding more all the time.  Check out CDC guidelines...

Common sense & good medicine should convince any intelligent, thinking person that giving all these vaccines to children with immature immune systems is not good, while at the same time, these children are being used as the test subjects cuz how else are they going to test all this stuff on kids...  The pharmaceutical companies & advertising - which underwrite medical schools & medical journals, tell the docs that more vaccines are good...  the docs have been indoctrinated & don't have time to study any alternative sources - especially so because they are blackballed if they speak out...  they just put their tail between their legs & carry on with the status quo...

I know many docs who would never follow the same guidelines for themselves they are told to apply to the patients.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 28, 2009, 07:36:41 PMHowever, to simply dismiss these events as "coincidences" is a serious mistake.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe more women would lose their children from the flu than they would through side effects of the vaccination.  I see no reason one hypothesis is more likely than the other.  I do not like jumping to conclusions.  I am not very smart, so  I need a method to distinguish between the likely truth, and likely false conclusions.  I choose the scientific method to do that.  The absence of evidence is not proof of the contrary.  "I don't know" is a valid answer until more evidence is forthcoming.  And sometimes when that evidence contradicts my conclusion, I have to admit I was wrong, and change my mind. 

But not until I see the evidence.

We'd better have a roll call!  I know me an' ole Pox are still here ... got our pig shots and all.  But I worry about the rest of you hold-outs!  10,000 Americans have so far have succumbed .... (if we can believe the press.)
.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/11/health/11flu.html

I'm a hold out and will remain so. I know four people, friends, acquaintances and clients who all came down with serious flu within a day of getting their vaccinations. Could be coincidence, could be they would have got the flu anyways. I've had shots in previous years; not this year though.

QuoteI am not very smart, so  I need a method to distinguish between the likely truth, and likely false conclusions.  I choose the scientific method to do that.

We've seen how the scientific method, if driven by an agenda, can manipulate, mislead, and withhold information (read global warming scam).  I am skeptical of all things that are deemed "good" for me by others.  Just saying...

I have friends who got the shot and got the flu.  

Sassy and I did not get the shot and did not get the flu.

Most medical people, doctors, nurses, etc.  working with Sassy at the VA refused the shots and did not get sick.  

Patients she knows got the shots and got the flu.

So much for an unscientific study.

I also probably know people who got the shot and did not get sick, but they don't talk about it. Like many things you hear about the crap before the good, most often. But I'm still not getting shot.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on December 10, 2009, 11:36:03 PM

So much for an unscientific study.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Well, I still don't think it's worth the risk. Both Jane and I got the Flu last week (Saturday) I don't know what kind of Flu but it's been miserable...just like the Flu is supposed to be.

But we're getting over it and don't have to worry about side effects later.

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on December 11, 2009, 08:12:00 PM
....
The plural of anecdote is not data.
....

Nice! I wish I had written/thought that.

I'll be happy to sit by and watch as you guys offer yourselves for experimental testing. 

Realize that there is no recourse against the manufacturer as the government granted them immunity from lawsuit.

I'll take my chances with the bug.  At least I won't have to fight off the vaccine. :)

I hope all continues to go well for you.

Good doctor contract giving you a guarantee if shots are forced on you or your children.  Word Document

http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/29718/83/

http://www.davidicke.com/images/vaccineform.doc

Yes - I am aware the above site is a bit radical, maybe sometimes considered crazy, but you can't argue with the wisdom of getting the good old doc to guarantee your welfare if the state will not, eh?  You know he has your best interest at heart and he himself is so convinced of the vaccine safety, that he will sign the contract without even reading it....... Right? [waiting]

Kinda funny story:

This morning DW and I go to our usual breakfast spot (Ruby's): and there sits "Billy" just out of the rain, as usual smoking like a chimney and quick to tell you of his lastest ailment.  Billy is a local fixture, a widower in his late eighties, no relatives, has more money than he or I could ever spend.  If Billy is not sitting there early in the morning, then you know he's spending time in the hospital ... getting something fixed.  Last time it was a hernia ... somewhere.  But this week Billy is back at Ruby's, so all is right in the world.

As usual, we inquire, "Billy, how are you feeling today?"  

He takes the weed from his mouth.  After a theatrical pause, "I feel great!  You know .... I really think its because of all those darn flu shots they made me take."

(I nearly fell over!)

Fake flu pandemic being investigated.

http://www.wodarg.de/english/2948146.html