A/C Spacepak

glenn kangiser · May 19, 2008, 12:58:49 AM

Met a new friend at a yard sale today who though this might be of interest to us. I haven't studied it all over yet but thought I'd throw it out there for you guys to check out.

http://www.spacepak.com/

Jackson Landers · May 20, 2008, 11:05:41 AM

It looks pretty neat. Easier to install than a conventional system. However, all of the proprietary parts and connections give me pause. What happens if this system doesn't catch on and the company goes bust in 5 years? Then if the central unit breaks, have you got this infrastructure throughout your house that is suddenly useless?

I'm reminded of the central vacuum system in my grandfather's house. It was state of the art in the early 1970's when it was installed. Then some water got into the collection chamber and the bottom rusted out, but the company went out of business so he couldn't get a replacement part. And all those vacuum outlets just sit there doing nothing for the last 30 years. It being a proprietary system in the first place, none of the other central vacuum systems' parts can work with the tubing and outlets.

May 20, 2008, 02:28:57 PM

A system that is popular in Italy and Spain (perhaps most of Southern Europe) is a small split two-piece system. Popular especially in high-rise apartments. It can look the same as our "thru the wall" or "window" air conditioners ... and about that size ... but they are not "thru the wall", as ours are, at all.

The condensor coil, (noisey) compressor, and fan hang on the outside wall. The evaporator coil, fan, humidity collection pan hang on the inside wall. Thru the wall is a small diameter hole for the two refrigerant tubes, elect power, and water drain. It can look as though it's not split ... combined as ours are.

Much less noise indoors. No loss of window space. Less heat/air leakage concerns. But... not a typical DIY installation.
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I don't think I've ever seen exactly this in the States.
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http://www.diy.com/sl/home-improvement/36478-professional-split-air-conditioner-9000-btu.html

TheWire · May 20, 2008, 05:31:18 PM

I have a log home with radiant floor heat. Love the smooth heat of 90 Deg water in 25,000 of concrete, but the A/C is a challenge and this looks like a good way of solving it!

gamudslinger88 · May 20, 2008, 07:22:30 PM

Hey fellas. Long time watcher but I came across this and had to reply. I was in the HVAC industry for about 7 years and have installed everything from homes to industrial buildings. I have seen only one of these units installed and the company I worked for installed it but I wasnt part of it. The finished product is all I saw. It seems to be a nice unit but what I didnt like is the noise and the velocity of the air leaving the vent. The air moved very fast, theres clames to circulate the air and not to be fast but this one was. One reason for the larger duct aside from more air flow is the noise. slower air = less noise. I saw this and I had to put in my 2 cents.

May 20, 2008, 07:33:06 PM

Thanks for speaking up and

to the forum.

MountainDon · May 20, 2008, 08:11:30 PM

I never thought about the noise issue until you mentioned it, gamudslinger88. And

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That does make sense. Our A/C makes almost no noise at all when the slow speed blower is sufficient, but when/if it kicks into high, you know it. I can imagine what that would be like with smaller vents.

teacher2 · May 20, 2008, 08:36:10 PM

What about PTAC ---Packaged Terminal AC & Heating. Looks like C. White in north Georgia has one in her upstairs. Has anyone heard any comments about these units? How about energy efficiency? It should would be easier to use these "motel/hospital room" type units instead of central ac & heating. Any comments?

MountainDon · May 20, 2008, 09:04:50 PM

My main criticism of Packaged Terminal AC & Heating units is that they don't come near the SEER of a good late model central system. At least when I last looked.

Our central A/C has a SEER of 16. We had it installed a few years back. They now have 19 SEER units. The best I recall seeing in the PTAC's was almost 12 point something.

May 21, 2008, 05:39:17 AM

Thanks for the welcome! A geothermal unit has the highest seer rating of all or em, last time I looked they were up to 32 and that was about 2 years ago. If you have a body of water near by they are even better, they will use lake,pond,creek water to cool down instead of the earth. As far as the PTAC units they arent as effecient and only heat or cool a small room. Duct is not hard to run with a central heat and air system. Many people are just intimidated by all the duct work running here and there but there is nothing to it. A big plus with a central system is in the winter months you can turn the fan on and set the heat at whatever you like, build a fire in the wood heater or fireplace and the fan will circulate the heat throughout the house until the fire dies then the heater will kick on. I plan on running a central unit in my cabin when I build it, a small 2.5 ton unit will be plenty

glenn kangiser · May 21, 2008, 08:43:47 AM

The contractor who introduced me to the Spacepak mentioned that the cost of the geothermal unit was so great that it was hard to recover.

MountainDon · May 21, 2008, 09:31:00 AM

Quote from: gamudslinger88 on May 21, 2008, 05:39:17 AM
A big plus with a central system is in the winter months you can turn the fan on and set the heat at whatever you like, build a fire in the wood heater or fireplace and the fan will circulate the heat throughout the house until the fire dies then the heater will kick on.

That works quite well. It's especially good with a modern furnace that uses a DC motor for the fan.

JRR · May 21, 2008, 12:03:37 PM

About efficiency.

My two-wheel BMW weighs (without me) about 300 lbs. It gets (maybe) 28-30 mpg. My fully loaded seven-passenger minivan gets 20 mpg. Yet it weighs over 10 times the weight of the bike. One has to say the minivan is much more "efficient". But if its only my body that needs to go to the library and back, the bike makes more energy sense.

The same with air conditioners. My central air system is pretty efficient. I modified the outside condenser coils to use cooling water spray ... so it brings the house temp down pretty well ... at less cost. Even so, each spring/summer we wait as long as we can ... resisting moving from a "ventilated" house to an "air conditioned" one. The thing that finally will cause me to make the switch is a sleepless night spent in a warm/hot bed room.

When that discomfort level is finally reached, we go around closing most of the windows ... depending on the ac system for ventilation and cooling. Inside the house there are lots of heat loads other than my body ... kitchen appliances, lights, tv's, computers, etc, etc ... lots of things inside the house envelope that my "efficient" air system has to work on.

But if I had a small (inefficient) window unit in my bedroom, I would sleep just as well ... and use a lot less energy off of the grid.

gamudslinger88 · May 21, 2008, 06:10:25 PM

I dont think they are priced so great that you will not see a return, at least not in my area (Georgia). I dont know for sure about Calif. or anywhere else for that matter. I know the DNR had us install one that was outrageous in price ($125k if I remember right) but that was the state and they have all of out tax money so they can afford it.

They building was small with around 12 offices and a lobby.

As for waiting to turn on your unit I wait as long as I can as well. I personaly like to be comfortable during what little bit of time I can spend in my home so I keep it nice to my liking but thats a personal choice. It would be nice to be off the grid though.