Bullets - Shells - Ammo - Reloading

[NM_Shooter]

Double ditto for seal a meal on primers.

Really two things make primers / powder go bad fast... first is moisture, second is temperature swings. 

I had some 4895 in an 8# jug that I used all the way to about 3/4" from the bottom.  The jug looks like a chlorox bottle.  Anyway, it formed a cake on the bottom of the bottle and I scrapped it.  I also have some green dot and and assorted other powder that are in bottles that appear to be 30+ years old that have never been opened and still "sound" fresh.  For the old powders, once I open them up I use them up pretty quick.  I also work up loads on that old stuff and use my chrony to test that nothing weird happened.

I also have some newer Varget, WST, Promo, 4895 and whatever that are in opened kegs that I was trying to figure out a good way to seal up.  I was thinking about the seal-a-meal method, but that red hot sealing wire next to a lb or more of powder makes me nervous.  Also, it is a bit dangerous to store powder outside of it's original container, as if the label falls off you enter into a scary area. 

-f-

[glenn kangiser]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=459655

$13.56 for 20 rounds - reloadable 30.06   What do you guys think of this ammo - I bought two boxes to try it out...

and where is a good place to get reloading supplies?

[peternap]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=459655

$13.56 for 20 rounds - reloadable 30.06   What do you guys think of this ammo - I bought two boxes to try it out...

and where is a good place to get reloading supplies?

It's Wolf ammo. I've shot tens of thousands rounds of it. It is OK and cheap but dirty as a coal.

Buy Walmart Ammo. You can get premium ammo for just a little more than Sportsmans Guide.

[NM_Shooter]

Hi Glenn, 

If you don't mind supporting a pseudo government sort of setup, the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) has excellent deals on cheap ammo.  But there are a few qualifying things... you have to have either fired in a local CMP match, or I think be military, or law enforcement background... don't know for sure.  Check with www.odcmp.com for details.

They are selling some Greek M2 Ball ammo that is the best I've seen.  Better than 1.5MOA accuracy at 100 yards.  Much better than the Danish or even the US surplus.  It's pretty cheap too...about $0.31 a round.

For supplies on primers and powder, shop a local gun show and avoid the hazmat shipping.  Projectiles from Wideners.com or Midway.com. 

Find a powder that is flexible (Red dot or Promo for shotguns and pistols) and 4350 or 4895 for rifles and buy a bunch.  Don't get anal about perfect loads.  It really is not worth it.

Good luck!

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks, Peter and Frank.

I am going to be working my way slowly into this along with my other 50 things I want to do some day.

[MountainDon]

Buy Walmart Ammo. You can get premium ammo for just a little more than Sportsmans Guide.

Selection varies by store/season around here, but thinking ahead and keeping a stock on hand it works out well.

[glenn kangiser]

One thing for me is that the nearest WalMart is 45 miles away.  I avoid the cities as much as possible.  They are not ready for me...

[Whitlock]

This weekend when I was at Glenn's we were talking about the 22 magnum. and the 22LR.
I thought you could get the 22LR  in CCI mini mag that had  comparable velocity to the  22mag.
I think the 22LR will get 1700fps and the 22 mag. is around 1900fps
But I can't find my chart. Can some one help me out on this?

Thanks,W

[NM_Shooter]

This weekend when I was at Glenn's we were talking about the 22 magnum. and the 22LR.
I thought you could get the 22LR  in CCI mini mag that had  comparable velocity to the  22mag.
I think the 22LR will get 1700fps and the 22 mag. is around 1900fps
But I can't find my chart. Can some one help me out on this?

Thanks,W

Here you go:  http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/rimfire.aspx

Remember that in terms of energy, velocity is squared. 

So the 22 mag round with 1875 muzzle fps has 2.3X more energy than the Mini Mag round at 1235fps (same size projectile)

BTW... try the CB Long for in-yard varmints.  Very little noise and very accurate.

[Whitlock]

Thanks Shooter.
Why didn't I think of that
I have used the CB longs good for pinpoint accuracy

[peternap]

If you really want quiet, try some sub velocity ammo. Out of a bolt action, it's as quiet as a pellet rifle.

[Whitlock]

I need a little advise, First let me say I have never take a gun to a gun smith.

I have a Ruger P-345 in 45 auto. Bought it new from a gun store.
When I first stated shooting it, It had piss poor accuracy I took this as me not being used to the gun.
But now after over two hundred rounds and different types of ammo.I know that something is not right.
I think the accuracy is getting worse It is so bad that you can't hit a five gallon bucket at 20 feet with Evey shot.

Glenn and I shot it yesterday and we recovered one of the rounds the riflings on one side of the bullet are barely visible
and there is a ding on the edge of the bullet that shouldn't be there.

Any suggestions,W

[harry51]

Have you tried different lots of ammo? No engraving on one side of the bullet might mean the problem is with the projectiles rather than the pistol. One common reason for consistently poor accuracy is problems with the crown the barrel. It may also pay to load the clip, and hand-cycle the rounds through the chamber (outdoors, with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, of course!) so they land on a blanket or something similar to protect them when you eject them. Then inspect them to see if they were damaged when they fed into the chamber. Look to see that the bullets are still concentric in the case, dinged anywhere, etc. Compare to a new cartridge out of the box for differences.

If nothing is found, you can likely send the gun back to Ruger for repairs, I would think at their expense if it won't hit a 5 gallon bucket every time at close range.

Hope this helps!

[peternap]

You didn't say how large your groups are and at what range.

The P45 will never be a tack driver. While Ruger makes some fine guns, the P series are not in that category.

Try slugging your barrel and measure the slug. see if it's within specs. Try a different magazine and try a different lot of ammo (I suggest hardball just to eliminate some other possibilities,

The ding in a recovered slug means nothing unless all of the recovered slugs have the same ding.

Getting engraving on one side  indicates tipping. That's when the slug enters the barrel at an angle. While it could be a problem with the gun, it's more than likely the ammo.

Is the gun jamming?

[Whitlock]

Tryed running the bullet though like you said Harry they are fine.

Peter-
It is not the ammo. Tried four different brands and grains.
Groups are at about 10in. at 20 feet with 3 out of 8 going wild like two feet off the paper. This is with a rest and taking my time. I have other pistols that I can put every round in a two inch group at this range.
Tried a different magazine.
Please explain slugging to me.
The p345 has a barrel that tips to receive the cartridge you would think it was receiveing it right.
I will try to get another bullet today to see if it has the same ding.
The gun dosn't jam ever.

[cordwood]

Have you tried different lots of ammo? No engraving on one side of the bullet might mean the problem is with the projectiles rather than the pistol. One common reason for consistently poor accuracy is problems with the crown the barrel. It may also pay to load the clip, and hand-cycle the rounds through the chamber (outdoors, with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, of course!) so they land on a blanket or something similar to protect them when you eject them. Then inspect them to see if they were damaged when they fed into the chamber. Look to see that the bullets are still concentric in the case, dinged anywhere, etc. Compare to a new cartridge out of the box for differences.

If nothing is found, you can likely send the gun back to Ruger for repairs, I would think at their expense if it won't hit a 5 gallon bucket every time at close range.

Hope this helps!

Ditto!

[StinkerBell]

I just got a letter in the mail from Dick Cheney. He will have some free time come this February and has offer to teach me how to shoot my rifle!

I think I will decline.

[glenn kangiser]

Considering his position, Stink, I think you should tactfully decline and......  save face.  

[peternap]

Slugging is taking an oversize chunk of lead and driving it through the barrel. You want it large enough to engrave the rifling on it. I doubt it's an oversize bore but it does eliminate one possible problem.

What you just told me makes me think the bullets are tipping.

The P345's are one of those guns that has no middle ground. They are either wonderful or suck. Yours is a sucker.

Without looking at the gun it's hard but I'll venture a guess. The P45's had numerous feed problems on the suckers. A lot of it had to do with the spring tension in the magazine. Full won't feed, half will.

This caused some cartridges to enter the chamber at an acute angle. Some also had burrs on the chamber mouth causing the same thing.

The mark on the bullet is a clue. If they are all like or even most like this...the round could be entering the chamber at a high enough angle to tip it. you didn't mention the case condition.

This is a rare condition in a 45. 22's do it all the time.

Dig out some more bullets and if you can, take a macro picture of it. Also save a handfull of cases.

[Whitlock]

Dig out some more bullets and if you can, take a macro picture of it. Also save a handful of cases.

Thanks will do tomorrow,W

[NM_Shooter]

Hi Whitlock,

What do you use that .45 for?  If just for self defense, don't sweat it.  If you can hit a 12"X18" pc of paper at 7 yards, you are good to go.  No offense meant, but that is a pretty cheap gun and probably doesn't warrant a lot of work on it. 

I would not attempt to slug any of my guns, as I would fear gouging the rifling.  Here is a pretty good explanation of how to do it though...
http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_slugging.html

If you have not done this already, do the following... disassemble the gun, and remove the barrel.  It is quite possible that someone fired hot lead loads through the thing and the rifling is badly fouled.  You won't be able to clean it sufficiently with powder solvent like Hoppe's. 

Clean it like this:  http://www.custompistols.com/bengtson/articles/cleaning_the_handgun.htm

Here's a good test for it once it is clean.  Take it somewhere that you can use a bench, and rest your hands on sandbags.  Lock the bolt open, load one round by hand into the chamber (not from the magazine, but drop it directly into the chamber).  Close the bolt and carefully fire that shot.  Then reload one at a time in a similar fashion to shoot a test group.

Apologies if you know the rest of this, but I want to cover all the bases:

1)  95% of the work of an accurate shot is done with your trigger finger.  Slow, slow squeeze.  Be surprised when it fires.  Use the tip (pad) of your trigger finger, not the crook of the finger. 
2)  Always focus on the front sight.  The target will be blurry.  Sounds weird, but this is the way to do it.  BTW.. with a rifle, the rear sight is commonly blurry too.
3)  Don't be in a hurry to be done with the shot.  "Follow through".  Don't let off the trigger, don't raise your head, do take your time with the recoil before you are done with that shot.
4)  Think about what your sight picture looked like when the pistol went off.  "call your shot" and learn to know where it went.
5)  Never tilt your head sideways.  It throws your balance way off.   

If the thing still does not shoot, take it to a gun smith and ask him to look at it.  It sounds as though it could be a bad barrel, but could also be a bad bushing.  I'm confused by the lack of rifling on the bullet.   

Good luck.  I hate guns that won't shoot. 

[Whitlock]

The rifling thing is odd the riflings are good and deep on one side of the bullet and almost nonexistent on the other side
I will shot it more today like you said and let you all know how it went.

The last part of your post sounded like my dad when I was a kid learning how to shot brought back some good memories. I always got in trouble for tilting my head.
I can not hit a 12x18 paper at 7 yards with every shot.
I was looking at a Kimber 45auto but it was $1200.00
I thought to myself for $500.00 this Ruger should be fine and I had just read a article about it were they were getting 3 inch groups at 50 feet.
I don't think Ruger would sell a gun that was this bad often. If they do they will be out of business in no time.

Basically if it came down to it I would not want this gun in my hand if I was in a bind.

Thanks,W

[MountainDon]

The Kimber and the Springfield Armory are two of the best 45 semi automatics around. They are priced accordingly. The SA 1991A1 shoots better than I do, unless I have a rest. My son shoots tighter, more consistent groups than I.     35 years makes a difference.

My shotgun evens it out though. 

[Whitlock]

Like my shotguns too Don.
I always have a hard time deciding which one to take out for the day

I keep kicking myself for buying this 45 but maybe it will turn out all right

[Whitlock]

Shooter-I'm getting a 5 inch group at 50 feet if I put them in one at a time.I did this for 20 rounds just to make sure.
If I do the same with the clip loaded I still get 2 or 3 that fly wild