Wall mounted propane furnaces

[John_M]

Has anyone had any experiences with these wall mounted "blue" flame ventless heaters?

What is the difference between "blue" flame and infrared flames??

Its going to be used primarily as a back-up to a wood stove for heat.  (Just a hunting cabin, like the smell and feel of a wood fire!!)

Any differences between Natural Gas and liquid propane??

Thanks!

[glenn-k]

Natural gas comes from lines underground in cities or other areas where the gas company serves.  Propane is delivered in tanks.  They are not directly interchangable.  Propane has more energy therefore smaller jets are used.  Some things require only resetting or replacing  the jets and resetting the air.  The Bosch Aquastar isn't one of them -nearly all major components are different.

[Daddymem]

Natural gas is methane, propane, carbon monoxide, butane (and a whole bunch of other gases) that comes from in the ground.  Propane is a by-product of natural gas extraction process.  Propane is a liquid in transport and storage(goes back into gas phase when not under pressure). Natural gas is a gas in transport.  Natural gas composition varies.  Propane is consistant in composition, hence why propane is more efficient than natural gas.  By no means am I an expert, just a lot of research toward what we want to use for heating our house and I hope I got it right.

I have not found what the differences between laser, infrared, and blue flames.  I think it is only a little "bling" for the companies (the 5000 Supermax has to be better than the SL!)  Check out Al's for some information on some of the manufacturers (someone once told me he is a nut, but after much research, I now think differently).  I have found out Rinnai is the way to go, Monitor next.  Also heard stay away from Empire.  Note: These are my opinions only and reflect in no way on CountryPlans, come to your own conclusions.

[Amanda_931]

One of my neighbors is a retired propane truck driver (delivering the stuff!), so he and his wife decided that they should get a nice big plaque heater for their house.  One of the 5-plaque jobs.

They'd forgotten, after all their years in Florida, that the products of combustion are CO₂ and H₂O.

There was enough of the latter that, trying to heat their house with one big heater they ended up with wet floors.

The same would have been the same if they had bought the blue-flame of the same size.

You can see the flame--looks like under the pot on the gas stove--in the blue flame model.

The plaque heaters have the ceramic rectangles that radiate heat out from the burner, glow orange-red in the dark.

I kind of prefer the plaque, but I've had both.

Both come in both NG and propane.

Vented may really be a better idea.  But for a small area, or installing heat in a hurry, vent-free is less hassle.  And if you've got enough in the way of leaks, you're fine.

[Dustin]

I'd be very interested in your experience with the Rinnai heaters, Daddymen, since I am also considering installing at least a couple in my FirstDay.  
My only experience with propane heats are some old ones we have installed in a cabin I've stayed in, but it was non-electric and funky. I expect these little efficent japanese wonders to be very efficient, and since they have a little fan in them, able to throw out quite a bit of heat.
Being fairly dry in the winter in Utah, I'll be glad that one the positive by-products of the heating is a little bit of humidification.

[Daddymem]

Keep in mind what else vented means for the house too...just like pellet stove versus wood stove.  the combustion air comes from outside so no carbon monoxide issues and less drying out of the air too.  With a tight house like FirstDays, I will likely need to open the window sometimes but hey, that's how you start a good fire in the stove anyways.  Oh and I missed something up there...propane is a by-product of oil refining processes too.

[mikelopic]

  Blue flame units heat the air in the room , red .....heats the objects in the room first

[John_M]

Seems simple enough.....thanks for the info everyone!

[jraabe]

If you are building a modern house don't consider using an unvented heater of any kind. People die every year from unvented (no chimney) type heaters. They also produce lots of water vapor which is also a problem. Such units are relatively safe in an open space such as a garage or porch, but not in a closed house.

So, promise me you will vent the exhaust side of a heater no matter what brand or fuel type you get.

Then, the question is does the unit need to bring in outside air for combustion or use air in the house? The old fireplaces used interior air for combustion and that is why most open fireplaces produce negative heat (they use heated house air for combustion and then produce some heat but not as much as the furnace uses to heat up the cold air that is sucked in to feed the fire).

For efficiency and safety (especially in a tighter house) you want a heater with a closed combustion chamber. Wood, oil and gas heaters are all made that can do this. They will have an air intake and an exhaust outlet. In a high efficiency unit with low exhaust temperatures this can be one pipe that vents out the back of the unit (there are two concentric pipes on closer inspection - one for intake and the other for exhaust).

There are lots of good small heaters that are both safe and efficient. Look at the Japanese models first - they are common home heaters in Japan while in the U.S. the standard is a forced air furnace.

[kev_alaska]

We installed an Orbis direct vent propane heater in our "little house" that we built on the river bluff in Alaska. 15K btu model kept us warm this weekend at -25.....

Easy to install it yourself, low maintenance....

[John_M]

This may be a silly question, but can you make a non-vented wall furnace vented, or do you have to buy one specifically for that reason?

[glenn-k]

The non-vented one would'nt be set up for a vent pipe so you would want the proper one.

[kev_alaska]

Glenn is right. The non-vented ones are not set up to add a vent. While the vented ones are more expensive, the good ones vent exhaust gases outside while drawing in outside air to burn in the cumbustion chamber. We chose the convection type to eliminate the need for an electric blower.