Author Topic: Denali 14X24  (Read 8390 times)

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Offline UK4X4

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2018, 06:53:48 AM »
looks like the posts are within the wall...hopefully the posts are capped with a large plate to stop punch through of the top plate

Offline Beavers

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2018, 07:05:19 AM »
looks like the posts are within the wall

Oh OK I see them now.

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2018, 07:19:01 AM »
The wall encasing the perimeter is provides the bracing between the piers as well as a nice crawl space.  The next step is putting on the girders and then the floor.  The brackets the girders sit on are 3/8" steel plate (a little overkill, but steel was cheap).  I have some custom made saddles that will sandwich the girders. 

Offline Don_P

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2018, 01:05:09 PM »
Keep in mind, if frost can get under that wall and lift, it'll lift whatever is above it.

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2018, 06:45:16 PM »
I left about 6 inches of clearance under the wall for frost heaving.  Thanks for the concern and warning.  Later on this summer, I intend to do some grading for water drainage around the perimeter of the building to make it even better (only so much you can do when dirt is frozen solid  :-\ )  The bottom plate is pressure treated and the rest of the wood is untreated.  I am hoping dampness will not rot the wood....time will tell, but there is good ventilation and the floor is going to cantilever over the cripple wall.  This along with the overhang on the eves should keep things pretty dry.

Offline Don_P

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2018, 03:05:47 PM »
Good deal, I thought I was seeing the sole plate on ground.
If you soak the framing with tim-bor or bora-care, I use Solubor, same chemically, it'll help with decay and wood eating insects.

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2018, 08:37:58 AM »
I will do that.  Thank you Don.

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2018, 02:03:07 PM »
Well, another trip out and almost was able to get the subfloor on, but not quite.  We spent the first day digging out at least two feet of fresh snow and prepping for work the next day.  Now that the floor is almost on, hopefully we won't be shoveling near as much.  I was able to put a nail through my finger.....figure the nail hit a knot and took a 90 degree turn through my finger.  The injury is knot bad thank god and taught me a good lesson to keep the hand well away from the nail gun.

I am going to try and post any mistakes I made so that any readers might avoid them.  One mistake I made was not clamping the triple 2x12 joist on the gable end when laminating them.  All the joist looked lined up and tight but the nail gun pulled them a little out of whack (nothing serious enough to require redoing it), but the lesson is to clamp any laminated beams before going crazy with the nail gun.  It was getting dark and I was in a rush (bump mode is fun).  It still turned out great and figure the weight of the building will settle things out, but I could have done better.

To the experts, what do you think about adding blocking between the joist where they cantilever the girder?  The 2x6 wall will actually land just outside of the girder (the cantilever is only about 6 1/4" from the outside of the girder to the edge of the rim joist).  I did block the center of the clear span, but left out the blocking over the girder figuring it wasn't needed.  It sure feels strong as is with the rim joist and center blocking.  It would be easy to add 1x3 x-blocking or solid blocking since the subfloor is not nailed down yet. 

   

Next trip out will be an easy one since we are just installing the subfloor and finishing up little items we skipped along the way.  For nailing the subfloor Advantech recommends 6" on the perimeter and 12" in the field.  I was thinking of a 4-6-12 nailing pattern, but thought I would ask what people with experience use?  I am using 2 1/2" ring shank 8d nails for the subfloor.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 07:34:40 AM by redside »

Offline Beavers

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2018, 08:48:20 PM »
Nice progress [cool]
Sorry to hear about the finger... that sounds like it would hurt like a sob!

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2018, 05:20:52 AM »
Drove a 3" nail right into my hand long long ago when learning to use an air hammer....didn't hurt so much until they pulled it out!  d*

Not sure why you'd need to block the joists out by the rim since it effectively does just that.

Offline Don_P

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2018, 07:09:02 PM »
You are supposed to block over any bearing to prevent rotation. Think about load above and a narrow, deep stick on edge going over a support and it should be obvious why. That's the technically correct answer. This one is very close to lateral restraint, the rim.  "Feels good to me" I hear that often, and I certainly hope it does, but we weigh about 200 lbs, the building when occupied and holding a head of snow weighs what?

Yup, always hold your hand at least nail length away, we call that a fish hook when the nail turns. It can hit a hard spot, another nail or just follow the grain and turn. My wife was out on the roof nailing dormer subfascia and shot herself, I was up at the other end and told her to step inside the framing, I'd throw the board off. I've had a couple of guys pass out when shot, it has nothing to do with size, degree of testosterone poisoning, or anything else I've ever been able to tell, just a shock reaction. They hit the ground and are right back up, but they drop out for a second. That was my concern. She said something I didn't quite understand about the nail's ancestry, pulled it out, climbed the roof and finished nailing off before stepping in. I try not to pith ladies off :D Beyond that punctures are notorious for infection, I try to let them bleed out good before spoink and a band aid. I've had the glue from a staple grow out for about a year, it was blue, It'd itch and I'd see another speck of blue.

I usually nail off at 4 edges and 8 in the field.

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2018, 07:47:13 PM »
Thanks for the comments.  I was confused about the blocking requirement and initially thought that the IRC allowed an exception if the cantilever was less than the depth of the joist and supported by a full depth rim joist.....the code can be confusing.  I do have H1 hurricane ties and 4-10d nails in each joist through the rim.  I can probably get away with it due to the center blocking and sheathing, but I agree it would be better to do some blocking there.....I was just trying to save a little money and insulate the floor better.  Women are tough!

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2018, 04:08:29 PM »
For those reading this thread and continuing on with their own build, I am sure you will be faced with situations where the code seems unreasonable.  I went ahead and decided to do solid blocking over the girder even though I am sure the building would have been strong without.  It might be overbuilding, but the reason I did the blocking was:

1. It provides a shear path for horizontal loads perpendicular to the joist.  This could be significant in an earthquake which happens up here. 
2. It takes the shear stress off the nails used to to nail the rim joist to the floor joist.  This may prevent cracking or undue stress on the joist. The rim joist is essentially not structural now.  It could rot out in 10 years and the building won't be compromised.
3. The blocking is close to the edge of the 2x6 wall.  I actually feel that is will provide load transfer to the girder below (even though the joist do this fine, I might have a large point load or some other instance where the load lands between the floor joist.  Now the load as a chance to be picked up by the blocking.
4. Wind and rodent control.  The cantilever is on the outside of the building and the solid blocking should mitigate pressure differences and increase insulation value.
5. It really isn't that much extra money.
6. It strengthens the building (even if it doesn't need it).  I am up high on piers and any shear strength I can get I should take.

It is great to have this forum. 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 10:45:28 PM by redside »

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2018, 05:32:24 PM »
Most of the materials are ordered and will be transported in a couple weeks via snowmachine.  I have a pretty good idea of how the framing will go this summer, but I am having trouble with the best way to balloon frame the gable walls.  I am using scissor trusses and was going to use them on the gable walls.  I think the easiest way would be to frame up to the bottom chord of the scissor truss (maybe use just one top plate) similar to this picture Figure B3-42-A .

Now the hard part which is the actual raising of the wall.  I purchased two wall jacks to assist me with the process, but I know it would also be possible to just frame it in place (which might be safer).

Now for the questions:

1. Do I make the gable walls the full width of the building or the 24' load bearing side walls the length of the building?
    - I was actually thinking of framing the 24' walls first and then bracing the heck out of them.  I was then thinking of installing all of  the trusses and building the gable walls last (after all the trusses are set.  I wonder if this will work?  Seems like it will.

2. Framing up to the bottom chord of the scissor truss is acceptable, but I defer to people with more experience if there is a better way. 

My biggest fear is raising the gable walls and them falling on me. 

Offline Don_P

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2018, 08:03:20 PM »
Yes, frame and brace the 24' bearing walls first. Often I will lift a section of the wall, leaving out headers, T's and even some studs to be able to lift it. Healing up is slower than framing slow but steady. After it is up then add the missing members in place.

Either balloon framing pic is fine, the right hand one is easier. The studs are running unbroken between points of lateral support, from floor to roof in the left and from floor to ceiling in the right. Where people mess up is running the gable to only the sidewall height, then there is an unsupported break in the wall. And yes, being of the brute force and ignorance gender, I've been walking a tall wall up when the lightbulb went off, this thing is going to flip back over us and we are stuck here, can't go forward and not strong enough to back down, that is a bad feeling. Stick by stick under the gable truss is safer.

Offline dablack

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2018, 04:43:00 AM »
I can only say that I agree with Don. 

Since you can't put up that gable wall until the trusses are set, make sure your 24' walls are well braced.  When I set my 26' floor trusses on my 52' long wall, I THOUGHT I had my 52' long wall well braced.  I was wrong.  The middle of the 52' wall on the front of the house leans in about 1" right in the middle.  It leans out the same amount on the back of the house.  UGGGGG!  Over a 52' long wall, it isn't much but it really bothers me.  I should have done a better job bracing.   Also, I think my level was a little off.  Next time I'm going to use a plumb bob to check walls. 

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2018, 08:20:59 AM »
Me and my wife started framing the walls over 4th of July weekend.  We got the two load bearing walls up. It absolutely poured rain on us the last day.....I am sure glad I went with Advantech for the subfloor and plywood for the sheathing because it rained about 5-6 inches in 12 hours. Everything got soaked and I hope it dries out fine. It rained so much that the river came up to near flood stage and there were huge trees floating everywhere on the jet boat ride out (pretty scary).

Next trip out I will be framing up the gable walls.  A couple questions:

1) The gable/rake wall will be continuous studs to the bottom chord of a gable end scissor truss.  In pictures on the internet, some people put a double top plate on the rake and some only put a single.  I can't see what good a double top plate does in this situation so I am thinking of leaving it out.  Any thoughts?

2) This gable end wall is non-load bearing, but I am still thinking of using scrap wood to put in headers to stiffen up the window rough openings (I will likely use 2x4 or 2x6 scraps for this).  I just don't like the idea of using a single flat 2x6 for a window rough opening.  Thoughts?

Me and my wife definitely made a couple of mistakes, but I don't think any of them were substantial enough to affect the integrity of the building.  We only are able to work on this project on weekends and we are always rushed and I am sure if we slowed down we would have done better........but that is building and I don't think we did too bad considering we have never built anything and it is just the two of us.



 

Offline Don_P

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2018, 08:36:21 AM »
A single plate is fine in that situation and will let you get at least one nail down into the stud from above. You'll then need a nailer on top of that plate hanging out into the room to support the ceiling.

Whenever there is more than 2' of wall above the opening you need a header, I always put in a header either way.

Not sure what I'm looking at with the beam on top of the studwall, do make sure it is secured/ braced from hinging and rolling

Construction is the most reliable form of rain dance  :D

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2018, 10:37:30 AM »
Thanks Don......the rain sure does make one move fast!!!  The beam cantilevers back into the house 12 feet (used a 3:1 backspan ratio).  I made a cradle for the beam by notching the 2x6 studs into an L shape.  When I sheathe the house the beam will be completely sandwiched and secure.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2018, 08:57:29 AM »
Construction is the most reliable form of rain dance  :D

Yup.  My build even changed the climate around here.  There was a front page news story about it:  https://buffalonews.com/2018/07/19/wet-or-abnormally-dry-it-depends-on-where-you-live/

The print edition had this table.  Guess which town my build is in.



Yes, you guessed right.

Offline 1akbig1bear

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2018, 07:24:28 AM »
Hey Redside,
Nice job on the cabin and excited to see the progress along the way. Curious as to the overall purpose of the cabin when complete? Weekender, Hunting, Fishing, long term plans?
How far off the grid are you and what transportation is needed to get materials to the site?
I'm in the same boat as I build my cabin on Kodiak in dealing with SBS, although very nice people the quality of the materials is not nearly as good as I would hoped plus it is very limited choices. Wait until you try to buy doors and windows, I ended up buying my two exterior doors for $185 apiece at Lowes and SBS quoted $535 each. The same goes for windows, their price was double at best as the high end over the counter versions Home Depot sold. I could actually buy mine in Seattle and ship them to Alaska for less than I would have paid at SBS.
Good Luck on your build...

Offline redside

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2018, 11:42:40 PM »
Sorry its been awhile, but life has been busy as my wife just gave birth to our first kiddo!  Luckily, I was able to get the cabin dried in.  Some pics of progress:

Front Gable Wall Going Up


Since my trusses were not built properly, the truss plant stepped up and paid for a new set of trusses and a helicopter transport.  I am glad they footed the bill, but the screw up really slowed my build down (at least I ended up with a whole other roof I can use for another building project).  It was incredibly dangerous, but one of most incredibly skilled pilot delivered the trusses to the front yard (thanks Danielle).


Wife was pregnant and unable to assist me with the roof.  The trusses were 140-180 lbs a piece and impossible for me to move into place by myself.  I was able to build a jig on the floor, splice them together, and then a friend and myself were able to move them up to the loft.  A couple freinds and my brother came up to help get the roof on as the first snow was fast approaching and I was in a time crunch. 


Dried in for winter.  I chose to not offset the seams of the sheeting due to the offsets breaking where windows were and felt it was stronger the way I did it, but who knows.


Pic of the cabin from the lake.  Figure I need to trim about 10-12 trees to have a very good view from the back side of the cabin.


First kid born a couple weeks later.  Can't tell you how relived I was to get it dried in and my tools/investment protected....now I can chillax for awhile.



Offline Mike 870

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2018, 03:09:52 AM »
Congrats on the new family member and getting dried in!  That is such a big relief.  Next time I complain about getting building materials up my hill I need to think about you guys building in AK!  Keep us posted!

Offline NathanS

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2018, 04:41:08 AM »
Congrats on the baby!

Nice to get the roof sheathed, it looks good.

A word of warning, you will not be chillaxing for a while.  ;)

Offline Migraine Craftsman

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Re: Denali 14X24
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2018, 02:00:17 PM »
Congratulations!

 w* little one.

 

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