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General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: kindrngentlr13 on December 25, 2009, 01:21:03 PM

Title: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: kindrngentlr13 on December 25, 2009, 01:21:03 PM
took some time to research the best ways to build a different kind of home and decided to build in a silo at the farm.  Started this year in the spring, its comin around, its all on me and have no help so a very interesting project. I am lookin forward to finishing as I rack my brain trying to feel in the gaps, lol.
I have images to post but havent figured out to do this yet, any suggestion?
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPB220203.jpg&hash=e8a32f885e87511f202c5a2db787861f)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FP5130365.jpg&hash=29ca4f348fa101762db516dc73652bd2)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FP5130371.jpg&hash=4b9c719900072a9e8b39860865d5d3b6)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPA310603.jpg&hash=6f5f422917046c31ce9590efcc18a6f4)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPA310604.jpg&hash=82ab4038cf88aac4c1bcb1b74e9f1ffb)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPA310605.jpg&hash=273f5772b620b455b0d7a35519cf9d74)
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 25, 2009, 02:33:33 PM
 [waiting] for the pics.  Intresting project.  I have found that Photobucket is the easiest to use with this forum.  There are directions @ http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.0.  I also had a condensed verson but can't recall where it was at.
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: rick91351 on December 25, 2009, 03:43:54 PM
One mans grainery is an others silo! 

I guess you could think of it as a large yurt.   ???

Are we talking a metal or wood grainery.  The wood ones were usually build in a hexagon, usually no more than 20 to 25 feet tall.  Metal one were like a round or cylinder shape and about the same height.  They are hotter than the hubs of hell when you have to get into one in the summer time to clean it out or shovel grain.  This is basically the same problem with a posting on shipping containers we entertained the other day -  way to hot in the summer time.  Needs some windows cut in and a ton or two insulation.

Or are you talking more like an ensilage silo.    [cool]   Like tall multi level yurt condo.   ;D  Penthouse would have a huge view.  Cement was cylinder shaped and the wood again usually hexagon and might be eighty to one hundred feet high with a ladder that went clear up the side.  Or it is more like a grain elevator, huge amount of room there and again very tall.  Room for condos plus offices?  WOW $$$$$$

Excuse me but I think I'm turning in to a capitalist pig! 

         
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: dug on December 25, 2009, 04:22:56 PM
Like this?


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fsilohome.jpg&hash=b417bd856f5815626f4f1167f01267da)
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 25, 2009, 04:44:59 PM
The ones that I recall were concrete about 12' in diameter, circular for about 50-60 feet tall.  And it was a great climb to the top at 5:30 in the morning by a narrow ladder housed in the chute to throw silage down by the light of a candle.    The fall climb was the worst but by spring the climb wasn't as high.  It was always a good feeling opening another layer door because you knew you were getting closer to the bottom.  Those were the good ole days. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi220.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd161%2Fredoverfarm%2Fscenes%2Fcountry%2520plans%2Fimages-silo.jpg&hash=6372918755115415b48938d5b56f84d1)
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: rick91351 on December 25, 2009, 04:56:37 PM
Cool Dug - can you take us inside?  Is this lived in?  Could you make that into a two story?  Looks like you might have plenty room.  The ones we had one the farm were not that tall.  How many bushel would that be?

So lets toss out some ideas and brain storm a little.  Great use if you can get around the heating and cooling problems.  I think you could cut in some holes and frame them for good quality windows.  Run some studs vertically and insulate.  However as with metal shipping containers there is going to be problems with condensation as the structure heats and cools.  Could you get around that with spay on insulation.  Walls then could certainly be sheeted with thin plywood or vernier stained or painted.



       
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: rick91351 on December 25, 2009, 05:15:54 PM
John:  Did it freeze hard enough there to freeze the ensilage to the sides of the silo?  Then it got very dangerous when it started to thaw because it would cave off on to you.  Around here they are all but a thing of the past as well.  Small dairies and small feed lots are all gone.  Now it is huge piles mostly above ground at huge dairies and feed lots.  I know a couple where they even have machinery that reaches out and sort of pulls and mows what they are going to feed for the day.  No one even goes near the ensilage piles and risks it fall on them.  If some one does they are fired on the spot.        
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: dug on December 25, 2009, 05:58:09 PM
Quote
Cool Dug - can you take us inside?

sorry, can't lay claim to that one- just 'borrowed' it from the web.

One of my summer jobs as a kid was to get inside them and shovel the grain to the edges. We did a fair amount of slacking and now and then took a smoke break. Real smart.
Years later I was working 8 miles away as the crow flies from one that exploded and could feel it. Blew the windows out of just about every building within a mile!
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: kindrngentlr13 on December 25, 2009, 06:11:10 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPC210700.jpg&hash=f03ac140a6fdfd898a800cd90bc37614)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPC210701.jpg&hash=a1b2ab620a2bd6b58257618f49da4e04)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPC210702.jpg&hash=ee243cc468bff0a1be1e8077dade0db6)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn5%2Fkindrngentlr13%2Fgrain%2520bin%2FPA310606.jpg&hash=9ddb1d841a015e648dd018c65dd34dca)
here some more pics
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: kindrngentlr13 on December 25, 2009, 06:18:08 PM
This silo is galvanized steel, 25' to the flat and 30" to the peak, it is 30' across, I made the crawl space approx 2' tall. The steel tubeing I welded in place is 2x2x1/4, it is resting on 4" channel bolted to the wall and resting on a gussetted 1/4" plate the was welded on a 6" x 5/16 steel pipe bolted to the floor.
the walls are 16" oc, in the shape of a octadecagon, 18 sided object.  each wall is 5"1 1/2 long, 10" high, mitered at 12 1/2 deg. the outside walls carry no weight as the tubeing and supports will carry all the load, and the outside shell as well of course.
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 25, 2009, 08:07:25 PM
John:  Did it freeze hard enough there to freeze the ensilage to the sides of the silo?  Then it got very dangerous when it started to thaw because it would cave off on to you.  Around here they are all but a thing of the past as well.  Small dairies and small feed lots are all gone.  Now it is huge piles mostly above ground at huge dairies and feed lots.  I know a couple where they even have machinery that reaches out and sort of pulls and mows what they are going to feed for the day.  No one even goes near the ensilage piles and risks it fall on them.  If some one does they are fired on the spot.        

Yes Rick it did freeze as the walls as near as I recall were about 6" thick but that was just in extreme cold weather.  Once it had ferminted and become stable it would  continue to give off heat for a long time.  Never had any to collaspe as it had settled and was fairly firm to stand on.  We always used a large pitch forck and tried to level off as we worked down.  Shovel, shovel , shovel then open another access door and shovel, shovel, shovel and so on and so on until spring and then plant corn again and the fall fill it up and start all over again. 

I think what is being restored is a grain silo or storage tank.  There was always a problem with loose grain and usually you didn't enter them to unload.  That was mostly done by an auger in the bottom.  More than one person would get swallowed up in grain tanks as it was sort of like "quick sand"  I can remember a few that had to be helped out by either laying plywood to assist the farmer or block and tackle.

A lot of farmers anymore have went to "treanch silos"  because it is more cost effective not to have to erect a structure and the earth is a pretty good container.  If you can just figure out how to keep the rodents out. If they do erect silos now it is most likely a Harvestore or similar brand that erects from the top down to the ground, jacked up as they make them from fiberglass and steel. All automated and no one is shoveling the silage out except after the cows use it. ;D
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: glenn kangiser on December 25, 2009, 11:32:09 PM
We had a project like this here on the forum but don't know if it was this forum or one the spammers destroyed.

Hmm hmm Look's like it was your's a few years ago.   Glad you came back to share it with us.   [cool]

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2184.0

Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Whitlock on December 26, 2009, 06:49:16 AM
We had a pit silo when it would rain the water would build up around the pit and the corn on the edges would fermint the pheasants would eat this and get drunk.
When you would go out to feed some would fly into the side of the barn and some couldn't even fly.
My Gramps would say I know what is for dinner tonight heh
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Jens on December 26, 2009, 12:50:38 PM
just curious why you used steel tubing for the floor framing?  Looks awesome, and very nice metal work. [cool]
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: speedfunk on December 26, 2009, 04:29:31 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingrabbit.org%2Fimg%2FGrainBinBefore.JPG&hash=a2b6511423958154d71c1f447f488c3b) 

Dancing Rabbit Intentional Community .  They inherited this grain bin on their land.  http://www.dancingrabbit.org/building/GrainBin.php (http://www.dancingrabbit.org/building/GrainBin.php)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingrabbit.org%2Fimg%2Fgbin1stOutside2.JPG&hash=e0b9a52e44adf632da36743f13a5e5e2)
"
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingrabbit.org%2Fimg%2Fgbin1stfloor4insidelores.JPG&hash=4a7f4ce67d0bb1244cc7e93718a85360)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingrabbit.org%2Fimg%2FgbinCenterJoistsUpper.jpg&hash=ce99b59153dd5e2da9f0bfb9daf5fe90)

From their site "The structure of the grain bin itself will support the second floor. "

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingrabbit.org%2Fimg%2Fgbinoutside3.JPG&hash=f605d9d3931314c65fd24817195ffc5a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingrabbit.org%2Fimg%2FgbinTomonCeiling.jpg&hash=90cb7619144a8c12d495fbb73a870bff)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingrabbit.org%2Fimg%2Fgbin2003Jan20small.JPG&hash=e06571e77aaab2ac353cf084a2ea98a1)

Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: RainDog on December 26, 2009, 05:35:55 PM

 I wonder how they supported the second story floor...

 Those hay bales must just leave pretty much standing room only too. Really cool looking little structure, though.

 Had some family friends in upstate NY that had a big tall concrete one. Used to fantasize about making that into a house.
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: suburbancowboy on December 26, 2009, 06:07:21 PM
I spent five summer building these things during the summers in Idaho while I was going to college.  I have built a couple of hundred of them.  You should never use the walls to support anything.  They are engineered for outward force and only enought downward force to support the roof.  All the support for a second floor will need to come from the ground up other wise you will risk colapsing the side like a soda can when you crush it.  Also if you cut holes in the side make sure that you weld or bolt reenforcments around the opening.  Other wise this will be the points where it will colapse.  Just a word of warning.
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Ernest T. Bass on December 26, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
I wouldn't feel good insulating with hay bales from the inside.. Seems like a moisture trap to me, especially since they were probably just coated with an earthen plaster on the interior.
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 26, 2009, 08:05:28 PM
I think spray foam would actually be the logical solution.
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: speedfunk on December 27, 2009, 04:39:22 AM
They (dancing rabbit) have been using it for a few years now. I just thought it was cool.  I'm sure it didn't cost a whole lot .

The plaster they are using (earthen as mentioned by Ernest) is made from clay,sand and  the fiber in cattails(for tensile strength) I kind of agree earnest but maybe with a high clay content plaster acting as a vapor barrier coupled with a little gap between the outside of the straw and the  metal to give room for any condensation that might occur to run down metal

kindrngentlr13:  Looks like a really cool project..thanks for sharing it!!!! Will def follow this :)


Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: glenn kangiser on December 27, 2009, 07:42:49 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv293%2Ffrankencat%2Fmisc%2F1557.jpg&hash=5946de94d002e1f183d29741f492959b)
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: kindrngentlr13 on December 27, 2009, 06:16:35 PM
I used the steel tubeing because I was trying to go freespan over the 15'. this didnt work exactly as planned but I only had to add 1 support on every 3rd tube.  with the tubeing welded to the channel on the bottom floor and welded to the side as well it adds alot of support to the sidewall.  The tubeing on the second floor is resting on the wall but is welded to the bin wall for support as well.  I also welded 3/16 angle at 16" centers between the tubeing on the bottom floor but still had to add some addl pieces where the plywood seams/corners were exposed.
Its been a while since I was on here but, it did take a long time to really get a plan of attack to start this project (as well as cash and time, lol).
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: glenn kangiser on December 27, 2009, 06:51:04 PM
Glad you came back to keep us up to date.
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: bayview on December 28, 2009, 10:13:27 AM



   How ingenious . . . I would have never considered a home in a grain silo. 



/
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: Whitlock on December 28, 2009, 08:17:47 PM
Here are a couple free ones-


http://stlouis.craigslist.org/zip/1518874465.html
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: snowlover on December 29, 2009, 05:28:37 AM
You have to see the silo house Cornell students did this year to get 7th place in the Solar Decathlon

http://www.cusd.cornell.edu/wordpress/

Just watch the video and you'll be impressed
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: poppy on December 29, 2009, 07:44:15 AM
snowlover
Quote
Just watch the video and you'll be impressed

Impressed with what exactly?  That they can set-up a computer system to turn on lights and play music?

What about controling the angle of the solar panels and the HVAC system?

I would have liked to know about the insulation system and what materials were used.

I can see why they only got 7th place.  Besides, they need some lessons on putting a video presentation together; they said the same thing at least 4 times.

Sorry about the rant guys and gals; my wife turned 63 today and the weather outside is frightful and I don't have a fireplace in this stupid condo.  :(
Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: WoodSprite on December 29, 2009, 10:35:16 AM
snowlover
Quote
Just watch the video and you'll be impressed

Impressed with what exactly?  That they can set-up a computer system to turn on lights and play music?

What about controling the angle of the solar panels and the HVAC system?

I would have liked to know about the insulation system and what materials were used.

I can see why they only got 7th place.  Besides, they need some lessons on putting a video presentation together; they said the same thing at least 4 times.

Sorry about the rant guys and gals; my wife turned 63 today and the weather outside is frightful and I don't have a fireplace in this stupid condo.  :(

Please don't apologize, Poppy...this is the only thing that's make me laugh all day.  It's exactly the same reaction I had, down to the last detail.  I love the idea, but what exactly is the point, here?   If these are my 'neighborhood' geniuses, it's no wonder you can't drive anywhere in the 10 square miles that is Ithaca without stopping every 25 feet for a two-minute stoplight. 

Grrr...And we're sitting here shivering in a drafty little rented house with a propane "fireplace" and a $217.67 propane bill sitting on top of the lovely woodstove that will keep us warm next winter.  With our own frozen land beckoning from beneath the snow right across the road, beautiful and virtually inaccessible.

Your wife's 63, though.  This is a good thing.  Consider the alternative.

Title: Re: what to do with a grain silo
Post by: poppy on December 29, 2009, 11:15:43 AM
Thanks WoodSprite for confirming my reactions.  I was afraid I was over-reacting.

Quote
Your wife's 63, though.  This is a good thing.  Consider the alternative.

Actually, if the truth be known, my wife turned 64 today!  My daughter straightened me out when she called to wish her mother a happy birthday.

I know that it really is a good thing to be as old as we are, but it has been a rough couple of years for her.

It sounds like it will be a long winter before you can get back to construction.  At least I won't have to wait so long.
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