CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 10:53:09 AM

Title: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 10:53:09 AM
So I've been looking at owner built cabins here for a while (maybe a year or more?) and after my wife and I bought a piece of land (20 acres) we decided it was time to get busy!  I ordered the Enchilada plans with the intent of building all of the 3 little houses (using decks to connect some and having some independently stationed around the property) as well as the Victorian (I think that's the one -- where you combine the 3 into one) but since you have to start somewhere, we started with the 14x24 near the well.

This will make for a nice vacation spot and maybe someday we'll complete the family get-away (we have 5 kids and figure they will all want a small cabin).

Our first step, after buying the land was to decide on what should be done with access.  The easement road is pretty steep and rough so we had a friend pull a small excavator to the property and work on the easement.  It's now smoother and wider so will be easier to get trailers of gear to our spot.  However, you can't get here with a trailer in tow unless you've got a good 4 wheel drive!  But the views....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FLand068-1.jpg&hash=f78929853cd0893fd9ed68025245bb76)
A look from up top.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FLand040.jpg&hash=7aa79e5f0276fe3b3b73400a4acb529e)
Our driveway.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FDoubleMRanch022.jpg&hash=d22ac1888463cfcd297fa76e9cd93ae0)
Fixing the easement

The drive is about 5 hours (from our home) so it's a bit of a haul to make every weekend, but that's what I'm trying to do as I want to get the cabin shell built and closed in before it snows!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 11:01:39 AM
Once the easement work was completed as well as foundation trenches (we're using post and pier but figured the excavator would make easier work of getting down into the dirt since this is REALLY rocky ground), we trucked up the first components of the foundation - pavers and PT lumber -- and various camping/framing etc items that we might need.  The plan was to go the next day to the nearest Home Depot (an hour away) and get the rest of the supplies there or locally (nearest town is 30 minutes away).  However, my jeep had some issues and then the weather turned on us so all we managed was to drop off the supplies, trailer and tools and leave for another day.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FDoubleMRanch056.jpg&hash=2af5b01287421f01de329cbd171c386f)
Rain, hail, wind, lightning -- the works!  No cabin work this weekend!

And of course, the Jeep decided to overheat too!  So I had to do some major work on it before coming back.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FRandR-radiatorandpump002.jpg&hash=0402bac1bc9c678bd5f99720d5589298)
I ended up replacing the water pump, fan clutch, fan relay and radiator as well as a u-joint.   Yes access to our little cabin in the woods isn't exactly a Sunday drive :P
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 11:08:37 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09006.jpg&hash=4ac6b377cca3f1cb3b370b3f41a3842e)
Jeep fixed and the weather much better we return to get started in earnest!  Here you can see the pier blocks in the trenches.  We had to work to get them level and set right.

Bearing in mind that I have framing experience (used to frame condo's some 17 years ago) I will admit that impatience does NOT pay off!  Squaring these on this ground was tough and time consuming but should pay off.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09004.jpg&hash=10f995b9a6f9a8e4d7cd837ebcc2e1b6)
We then started making the beams.  I bought 2 14 footers and 2 10 footers for each beam.  The idea was to not have to cut anything and since you need a 4 foot overlap, well, hell, this ought to work right?

Laying the 2x8x14 down we glued it up, placed a 7 1/2" strip of 8' ply on it and then glued that and dropped the 2x8x10 on top.  Nailed it up, and then set the next 2x8x14 on glued up ply and nailed and then rolled.

The whole process didn't take too long since we had a good work surface in the ATV trailer :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 11:33:27 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09008.jpg&hash=695550f6d299382c7f77c302251ab3f0)

Once the first beam was completed we mounted it and leveled it on the posts.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 12:10:36 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09010.jpg&hash=ea382ada394defcaf039a40f22122d66)
We got the first beam installed and began working on the next.

I set the highest post of this beam at 20 inches -- not really thinking straight I guess -- as I wanted a 24 inch crawl space at a minimum.  What I hadn't thought of was the grade overall but lucked out in the end!

Basically I wanted 18-24 inches of crawl space with closer to 24 at the lowest end of the space.  The idea being that I'm a big guy and that I want to install a self composting toilet below the cabin so will need a high side -- as you can see, I got it :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09011-1.jpg&hash=0464f7bf022842456e8246448501e7f3)
We got both beams installed and fairly level and square.  Squaring the big beams on piers and posts in this terrain was a bear!  We came within 1/4 inch and then finally with a little creativity got it to exact (as we measured) and called it a day -- only to find that we'd left two piers off level and one post off level -- we'll have to fix those when we go back to work on the floor!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 12:17:59 PM
I should add that the trailer (Evolution One by fleetwood) and camper really make this a lot easier!  We arrive Friday night, pop up our weekend home and crash for a nights rest.  Then get up in the AM and can begin working after coffee and breakfast :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09020.jpg&hash=078e5a874fc73269ca5a4a96eb8a15c4)
Our camp site

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09021-1.jpg&hash=12a21fbe01810ac55b42691ba8591ce4)
The view from my chair while drinking coffee -- this is to the south and the direction the cabin windows in the kitchen and 'living' room will look :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09002.jpg&hash=6bc190e66c8a11dae3fd07634d41bb08)
My son got dinner for us :)  We love Grouse!

We've got a well so lots of water on site and using 'Luggable Loo's' and 'porta pots' with lots of digester will get us buy until the cabin is ready for the composter :)

Also, we won't be living here (unless TSHTF).  It's just our hide-away from the world :)  and we love it!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-09-20-09038.jpg&hash=4f0a153c230657cf5852ee4e2330d78a)
The Road Warrior -- our 1998 Jeep Cherokee with LOTS of work and upgrades!  

One thing that I keep thinking about is all the things we forget and what this takes:

1.  Get twice as many nails as you think you need.
2.  Plan to spend money on your car/truck etc if it isn't new!
3.  5 hour drives are long, don't forget anything!

Cheers
Erik

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 12:24:49 PM
Now for the questions:

First note:  It's been a long time since I was framing (17 years) so my memory is failing...

1.  The metal ties from the posts to the beams:  do we need to put nails in EVERY hole provided?  I didn't think so but realized that maybe it's important??

2.  Nailing the beams off every 6 inches on BOTH sides seems excessive to me.  Is it?  I did 12 and 12 alternating so it's 6" spacing on opposite sides (nails, then 6 inches to opposite side nails, then nails again etc etc).

3.  Square of the beams:  I'm thinking that the beams have to be perfectly square becuase the floor is built directly on top of them.  You don't want a parallelogram after all!  Am I wrong?

4.  Plans for the 14x24 call for 2x6 floor joists.  Does this matter if using 2x6 walls?  Or should the joists go to 2x8 when using 2x6 walls?

5.  Plans call for 2x6 roof rafters but later mention 2x12's in heavy snow load areas.  I don't consider WA State a heavy snow load state (not in an area with only 15 inches of rain anyway) but am wondering about the comment as it pertained to higher walls (found in the section on using 12 foot walls).

6.  I plan to use 10 foot wall studs (if I can find them in 2x6) and am wondering if I should change anything specifically becuase of this -- I don't think so but wanted to check.

Thanks!
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ScottA on September 21, 2009, 01:03:44 PM
1. I doubt it would matter since your piers won't hold the cabin down anyway. The extra holes would be to prevent uplift if required by code.

2. I'd nail them every 16" 2 rows staggered top and bottom so you end up with a nail every 8". If it's on the plans as every 6" then do it.

3. Get them close. You can play with the joists alittle if needed.

4. 2x6 should be ok.

5. Size the rafters based on local snow load. Find out what it is.

6. will give you less loft area.


Nice spot.  :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 01:16:33 PM
1. I doubt it would matter since your piers won't hold the cabin down anyway. The extra holes would be to prevent uplift if required by code.

Thanks :)  I'm trying to keep this cabin close to code in case I, um, er, forget to permit changing the deck I just built into a cabin ;) -- actually no one in the area has anything remotely close to code much less permitted.  But that's another story.
Quote
2. I'd nail them every 16" 2 rows staggered top and bottom so you end up with a nail every 8". If it's on the plans as every 6" then do it.

I've done every 12" on each side which means there are 3 1/4" galvies every 6"  just not every 6" on each side.  The plans only show this in one section as an afterthought so perhaps that's why the confusion -- there was no way I could get a 4x8x24 beam out there!
Quote
3. Get them close. You can play with the joists alittle if needed.
Good point...I guess 1/4" isn't going to be an issue but 1 1/2" would be.
Quote
4. 2x6 should be ok.
Good -- and I figured as much since they don't really carry anything anyway -- that's what the beams are for.
Quote
5. Size the rafters based on local snow load. Find out what it is.
Probably better check that -- I was thinking that with a 12x12 pitch it wouldn't matter much anyway!  However, I once replaced a roof on a house that someone built in the 60's or 70
s with 2x4 rafters!  Yikes those things sagged!

Quote
6. will give you less loft area.
Why?  I figure it will give MORE loft area.  After all, you get 2 feet of straight wall then -- I might not have been clear though.  I mean to say I'm going to use 10 foot studs and put the loft at 8 feet thereby increasing the height by 2 feet.

Quote
Nice spot.  :)
Thanks!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 01:32:55 PM
Some notes on our plans.

I did a lot of research and determined the best layout was to set the cabin with the long axis facing North and South.  This gives more sunlight exposure to the roof providing better winter heat and light in the windows.  This also means that we will put the entrance on the south wall (less icing and snow in the winter) and if we want access to a deck in the rear we'll have to have two doors (yes we're going to do that also).

We plan to deck around the entire cabin with one extended deck of at least 12'x12'.

Our plan is to be 100% off grid and this place makes it easy since there isn't any 'grid' around :) ;)

We'll install a self composting toilet (I've settled on two possibilities) and a Quadfire wood stove.

Also, the cabin will be built to match any codes provided they aren't insane (like demanding a septic system be installed which won't be used, will sour in a few years and then have to be replaced which would be both bad for the environment and costly -- seems the state doesn't understand that if you have a composting toilet and no septic tank it's actually better for the environment -- also, grey water can be run into a large settling tank and then used to water trees.  The state can't seem to conceive that a hunting cabin could be used in this fashion).

Anyway, I digress!  I'll post some links to the things I plan to use at the little cabin in the woods :)

http://www.sun-mar.com/prod_flush_cent2_acdc.html
Sun Mar composter -- serious toilet that will compost human waste which can then be placed in a compost pile -- incidentally there is so much cow manure on the property that I'd be more worried about it then a few humans visiting once ever few weeks/months!

http://thenaturalhome.com/greywater.html
Grey water system -- very good for many uses but in our case with limited time at the cabin this should be perfect :)

http://www.allowsolutions.com/naturesheadproducts.html
Another composter I've thought about.  A little less money (ok a lot) but also does less -- may be better for the short stays though.

http://www.countryplans.com/nash.html
And of course, the real inspiration for my plans and efforts!  These folks (as well as so many others) sharing their story really got me motivated!  THANKS!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 21, 2009, 01:37:17 PM
Here's my comments I was typing as the above was being entered.

1. Depends on the plates. Those look like "generic" use plates. IF they were the special post cap or post to bean Simpson things then, yes all nail holes would have to be filled.

2. The Southern Pine Council recommends many fewer nails; don't recall the exact number but it'd at least 126" spacing. More nails is not bad.

3. Ideally you should have the beams exactly square. It may be too late now, but the way I achieved that was to build the beams over length. After securing them in place I laid out the exact measurements and trimmed the beams to length.

4. Depends on the spacing of the joists. What is the exact distance between your beams? You can use the joist sizer to check how different sizes spec out. Remember if you are close to the maximum span on any size joist you floor may be springier than you really like. Deeper joists also allow for more insulation.

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp

5. You can use the above tool to size rafters and add in different snow loads. 2x6 may work, but if you are building a loft into the design think about insulation. 2x6 doesn't allow for much insulation in the roof. I have an anecdotal (not scientific) comment on that. I'm going to be posting it later today. It'll be in my cabin topic.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg97704#msg97704

6. You should be able to find them, at least around here they are available. Do you mean to use the 10 footers but have the loft floor at 8 eet above the main floor, in order to increase headroom in the loft? You would then inset ledgers in the 10 foot studs at the 8 foot mark.  







Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 21, 2009, 01:40:47 PM

... set the cabin with the long axis facing North and South. 

I get confused easy.  :-[  Does that mean the long walls will be on the north and south? ???
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 21, 2009, 01:43:45 PM
Composting toilet. We have a Sun-Mar. It works fine some of the year. Keep in mind that composting stops dead at about 50 - 55 degrees F (10 - 13 C).


% gallon bucket with a tight fitting seat/lid may be better depending on the temperatures.

The nice thin g about a Sun-Mar is they handles liquids with no user intervention.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ScottA on September 21, 2009, 01:45:30 PM

Quote
6. will give you less loft area.
Why?  I figure it will give MORE loft area.  After all, you get 2 feet of straight wall then -- I might not have been clear though.  I mean to say I'm going to use 10 foot studs and put the loft at 8 feet thereby increasing the height by 2 feet.

I guess I was confused. I understood 12' walls in the plans.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 02:00:31 PM
Here's my comments I was typing as the above was being entered.

1. Depends on the plates. Those look like "generic" use plates. IF they were the special post cap or post to bean Simpson things then, yes all nail holes would have to be filled.

2. The Southern Pine Council recommends many fewer nails; don't recall the exact number but it'd at least 126" spacing. More nails is not bad.

3. Ideally you should have the beams exactly square. It may be too late now, but the way I achieved that was to build the beams over length. After securing them in place I laid out the exact measurements and trimmed the beams to length.

4. Depends on the spacing of the joists. What is the exact distance between your beams? You can use the joist sizer to check how different sizes spec out. Remember if you are close to the maximum span on any size joist you floor may be springier than you really like. Deeper joists also allow for more insulation.

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp

5. You can use the above tool to size rafters and add in different snow loads. 2x6 may work, but if you are building a loft into the design think about insulation. 2x6 doesn't allow for much insulation in the roof. I have an anecdotal (not scientific) comment on that. I'm going to be posting it later today. It'll be in my cabin topic.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg97704#msg97704

6. You should be able to find them, at least around here they are available. Do you mean to use the 10 footers but have the loft floor at 8 eet above the main floor, in order to increase headroom in the loft? You would then inset ledgers in the 10 foot studs at the 8 foot mark.  


Thanks Much!

1.  Generic plates -- probably doesn't hurt to nail more and I may yet -- not the cap types as I decided those were too expensive for such a small project.

2.  126"?  Do you mean 12" or 6" or 12 1/2" hehe

3.  Good points on the beams!  Mine are damn near perfect when I left, so I'm not worried I just wanted to comment on it as it was something I had to really work at...it's done now though :)

4.  Spacing is per plans at 9'8"

5.  Good point on the insulation.  I was actually thinking of using 2x8's but one thing to bear in mind is that a 400-500 sq foot cabin will be WAY overheated with a small wood stove.

6.  Yes exactly.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 02:03:09 PM

... set the cabin with the long axis facing North and South.  

I get confused easy.  :-[  Does that mean the long walls will be on the north and south? ???

It's ok I'm always confused! ;)

yes, the long walls.  You see, I was debating this a lot becuase it can get hot here and I didn't want to present a large area for the sun to heat up until I began to consider the maunder minimum and what approaching that could mean (maunder minimum was at the peak of the little ice age and associated with colder temperatures and we're closing in on it again).  So, changed my mind and decided that while it may be warm in the summer -- indeed hot -- I'd rather have more solar heat in the winter.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 02:04:54 PM
Composting toilet. We have a Sun-Mar. It works fine some of the year. Keep in mind that composting stops dead at about 50 - 55 degrees F (10 - 13 C).


% gallon bucket with a tight fitting seat/lid may be better depending on the temperatures.

The nice thin g about a Sun-Mar is they handles liquids with no user intervention.

I've heard that and was wondering what the impact of 25 -45 degree nights would be if the day time temps rose about 65-75 degrees?  Which is common here.

I can enclose the unit and keep it reasonably warm during cold times on the piece and can put in a privy for really cold weather I suppose but in truth we won't live here so it's unlikely we'll be there too often in the very cold weather.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 21, 2009, 02:05:15 PM
2. Oops. Typo.   16" is what I meant


4.  Depends on how stiff you want the floor to be.   2x6's are on the edge of going up to 2x8.




Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 02:06:52 PM

Quote
6. will give you less loft area.
Why?  I figure it will give MORE loft area.  After all, you get 2 feet of straight wall then -- I might not have been clear though.  I mean to say I'm going to use 10 foot studs and put the loft at 8 feet thereby increasing the height by 2 feet.

I guess I was confused. I understood 12' walls in the plans.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  The plans have an addition that shows 12 foot walls to give 4 feet more in the loft but then make the statement about 2x12 rafters and 2x6's....I want to use 10 foot studs like the owner built in the link I left and was just curious about the difference -- not something that's in the plans but I'd noticed at least two others did this and it seems to work nicely.

Thanks
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 02:09:00 PM
2. Oops. Typo.   16" is what I meant


4.  Depends on how stiff you want the floor to be.   2x6's are on the edge of going up to 2x8.


Thanks.  So a little flex in the 2x6 floor do to the 9'8" span between beams?  I'm a 260lbs jarhead and plan to have a wood stove (read heavy) as well as other stuff...is it prudent to assume that the 8" joists would be safer?

They certainly will provide better floor insulation (more important to me then the roof actually).
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 02:13:19 PM
I should also note that I'm learning a LOT all over again and you folks have been great!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 21, 2009, 02:30:16 PM
Myself, I'd go 2x8, 16" OC.   OMMV   :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 02:35:11 PM
Myself, I'd go 2x8, 16" OC.   OMMV   :D

I'm kinda thinking that way -- then with 2x6 walls and 2x8 rafters I'll have good insulation which should help with summer heat (I'm not worried AT ALL about winter!  I lived in a 600 sq foot cabin in Ucluelet BC one year and the little wood stove kept it roasting that even with 2 feet of snow on the ground I had to open the loft window to keep from roasting to death!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: devildog on September 21, 2009, 04:23:06 PM
OORAHHHHHHHH! emcvay, and  w*. Great job on your project. you mmove fast.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 21, 2009, 09:45:03 PM
Oooorah Devildog :)  You must have noticed the cover and the Jeep ;)

And thanks!  Not fast enough for me though!  But the 4 1/2 drive each way does slow us down!  They boys also comment that this old Marine and Sgt is a task master!  Semper Fi!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on September 22, 2009, 05:31:01 AM
Glad to see another "neighbor" underway here  [cool].  Thanks for sharing your progress with us.  Looks like the secret is getting out about this area - quite a concentration of forum members with projects in this neck of the woods.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on September 22, 2009, 06:39:20 AM
Hey Erik-
Thank you for your service to our great country!

Wecome to a great site/forum.
Beautiful part of the world we have over there in the Okanogan.
Great to see you bringing your boys up right too.
Good progress on the cabin.
I did notice your piers however-
They seem to be a bit shallow in the ground.  Do you think frost heaving may become a problem?
Not to throw a monkey in the wrench but I have seen a few projects get thrown out of wack due to the freeze/thaw cycle.  I think the frost level in that area is about 24".
You may consider adding more backfill to bring the grade up thus covering the piers with more material.
Maybe some of the more experienced folks can chime in here.
Good luck and keep posting your progress.
Tom

 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 22, 2009, 10:55:00 AM
Hey Erik-
Thank you for your service to our great country!

Wecome to a great site/forum.
Beautiful part of the world we have over there in the Okanogan.
Great to see you bringing your boys up right too.
Good progress on the cabin.
I did notice your piers however-
They seem to be a bit shallow in the ground.  Do you think frost heaving may become a problem?
Not to throw a monkey in the wrench but I have seen a few projects get thrown out of wack due to the freeze/thaw cycle.  I think the frost level in that area is about 24".
You may consider adding more backfill to bring the grade up thus covering the piers with more material.
Maybe some of the more experienced folks can chime in here.
Good luck and keep posting your progress.
Tom

 

Thanks and thanks :)

I thought a lot about the pier blocks but another little house builder http://coyotecottage.com/cabin/cabinconstruction/foundation.htm seemed to do ok with shallow piers in the NW (he's in WA also and higher in alt then we are).

I may be wrong, but the soil type where I am at doesn't seem to experience any issues with frost heave so I'm thinking that being down as low as I am should be ok.  One thing you can't see here, but will be seen in other photo's is that we back filled the trenches and are filling them to come just to the top of the piers.  Then will be building a deck all the way around the cabin so they will remain pretty dry also (15" of rain a year max).

The drainage here is excellent and while they do say 24" I'm not sure how accurate that is.  But hey, we'll learn!  ;)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: chaddhamilton on September 23, 2009, 08:22:19 AM
Eric, Nice work so far.  Did you cast those piers yourself?   

Semper fi.
Chadd
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 23, 2009, 08:59:01 AM
Eric, Nice work so far.  Did you cast those piers yourself?  

Semper fi.
Chadd

Semper Fi Chadd,

Nope -- I bought those from the Builders Supply in Tonasket.  The pavers I also bought.

I'm hoping to get up there to finish the deck this weekend if all goes well...not sure though, since the front drive u-joints might be going on me and I need 4 low to tow the trailer up the hills -- it's steep!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 25, 2009, 09:03:22 AM
Leaving soon for the 'shop' we're building in the woods :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 27, 2009, 04:15:18 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09122.jpg&hash=5ae107513bd5306cc2d34303981df38a)
After settling in we headed out to get supplies.  11 sheets of 3/4" T&G OSB, 19 2x6x14's, 4 2x6x12's, 4 2x4x8's, insulation, sheeting (moisture barrier for the ground and the floor), nails and more.  The load was very heavy and one grade is at least a 12% and runs about 1/4 of a mile.  I was a bit worried since I usually pulled up it in 4 low but with some U-joints started to make noise I decided to try the haul in 2wd.  We made it!  I was so happy!

Later I did have to put it in 4 high but she pulled fine and we got the load up.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09128.jpg&hash=3aa819be6eefa9c28ecde2602451fd65)
Thanks to a cheap (Champion) generator and my Makita Miter Saw we made quick work of the cutting.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09129.jpg&hash=5d2aa115c3ba89d5799b1e919e9b54ae)
The boys used 14 1/2 blocks to space everything out.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09136.jpg&hash=efea7c88749c6ebb357e386f60e735e7)
And we nailed it up.  You'll notice the 6" framing.  I decided that since this was not a permanent residence or anything like that it would be fine with the 6 inch floor joists.

I guess the state calls for 12" joists but whether you're building a small wood working shop or a cabin in the woods to use when hunting and fishing I just don't see putting in a 12" floor unless you can spare the money.  Heck, a 8" floor would cost about $100 more and still be out of code -- and when you want to frame the whole thing for under $3k and then use it about as often as you use your tent trailer (6 times a year at most) I'm thinking this will be fine.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 27, 2009, 04:16:38 PM
For those curious about the torn up Tyvex in the picture -- that's on a shed that was built several years (4 or 5) earlier by previous owners.  I plan to either fix it up or move it.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 27, 2009, 04:22:10 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09151.jpg&hash=14df58f039cf4e336339deced5d3eb5c)
Got the insulation down and put down some vapor barrier and then dropped on the lid.

I made one mistake here (maybe two but the 2nd I'm unaware of still) in that I did not rotate the middle or end OSB to face the opposite way.

Why do this you ask?  So after you rip off the overhang of the first you can turn it around and install it on the second!  You need either 3 2' pieces of OSB with a tongue (in my case) or two with a tongue and one with a groove (which is what would happen if you rotate one section of floor).

I probably skimmed past this section of the plans in a hurry -- DOH!  Ahhh well....so I buy another piece of OSB.  Grrr...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09162.jpg&hash=355c4c79a34958d7b3c202275625ed33)
A Deck!  WhooHoo!  I can see the walls already!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09201.jpg&hash=03431b3f9ede477ef3b5589336712709)
I hear this is obligatory here at Countryplans so I'm doing a jig :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09206.jpg&hash=743effc4699d74b8cbc2b9955c64cee5)
It's hard to see but my 4 foot level shows well, level! :)  I love it!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09207.jpg&hash=2f51a602e8c1695d08536ab8d96a03fb)
Dropped down the two footer running the other way for a single shot of the two which didn't work so here it is.

I'm please we were able to do this -- it's been since 1992 since I did any real serious framing are new to it.

We're having fun and knocking out a lot of work!  it's solid too but I want to put in more braces and much more effort underneath.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 27, 2009, 04:23:52 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F9-27-09203.jpg&hash=c55d0dfb6bd5b4ce35f3201ca23c6bc6)

My favorite shot :)  Nothing like relaxing on the new deck!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ScottA on September 28, 2009, 03:30:46 AM
Looks good. I bet it feels good to be started.  :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Don & Ginger Lundgren on September 28, 2009, 05:59:21 AM
Looks good so far to me. I forgot to do the jig on our deck when we got it done... darn it! Did put a chair up on it right away and try it out. Had my daughter jump around on the deck looking for any weak areas... That was funny because I knew there were none but she took me serious so was really checking it out.

Keep up the great work.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 28, 2009, 06:31:52 AM
Thanks!

It's been a long long time so I find my hands are sore and I forgot just how dry kiln dried is!  My hands were so dry I actually had to steal some of my wifes hand cream -- I remember 20 years ago when I started framing I had this problem for a short time until my hands got used to handling the lumber but today I ride a desk!  Time to toughen up.

Overall I'm sore but feeling great!  Who says fat guys can't build cabins!? haha

Anyway, I've found some windows and hope to look at them today, if they will work I'll buy the ones I want and be able to start planning walls.

Windows is a big one for me becuase I still haven't settled on what I want.  I am planning the wood stove ini the west wall (14' wall) in the center which means I have to change how I put a window in the loft above.  I'm thinking two small bathroom sized windows on either side of the pipe but that's kind silly, so I might move the stove a few feet north instead -- not sure yet.

The issue is that the stove pipe must extend 2 feet above the highest point of the roof within 10 feet -- so putting it in the center of the wall means I've got the entire wall and gable to tie down the pipe.  Whereas, if I put it to the side then I've got to guy wire it to the roof somehow and have a lot of free pipe hanging out there.

Many cabins I see here don't do this, but it's something I feel is important.  I might argue that 6 inch floors and 4 inch walls are fine, but you won't get me arguing about wood stove rules and regs!  I'll be installing a Quadfire catalitic to meet state codes (though with luck they will never know it) and put the insultated pipe all the way up to clear everything correctly.

The main windows I'm thinking could be the size of typical bedroom windows and I've found some 60"x36" aluminum storm windows that I think might work (and for $15ea who'd not?) and also found two 36x30 inches for $10ea.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on September 28, 2009, 08:16:46 AM
Looking good!

Something to consider about the stove pipe...
The closer you put it to the ridge the less chance you will lose it when the snow sheds off of the roof.
Before I installed mine I asked for some advise from the local company that does woodstove installs.
The guy told me that at least a few times a year he has to replace pipes that have been torn off the roof due to snow build up sliding down the roof.  On a small building it may not be that big a deal.
I put mine about 1-1/2 feet from the ridge.
Just a thought.

Tom

 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 28, 2009, 08:46:36 AM
Looking good!

Something to consider about the stove pipe...
The closer you put it to the ridge the less chance you will lose it when the snow sheds off of the roof.
Before I installed mine I asked for some advise from the local company that does woodstove installs.
The guy told me that at least a few times a year he has to replace pipes that have been torn off the roof due to snow build up sliding down the roof.  On a small building it may not be that big a deal.
I put mine about 1-1/2 feet from the ridge.
Just a thought.

Tom

 

Hadn't thought of that -- I was just worried about tying it down so planned on putting it right in the center but running the pipe on the outside of the building from under the loft (90 through the outside wall) to 2' above the peak.  That way I've got lots of strength -- but I lose a center window in the loft (so need to offset the window there).
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 28, 2009, 02:01:22 PM
Another thing about wood burning chimneys...  A chimney that exits the wall and then rises to above the roof peak may not draw as strongly as a chimney that goes up through the interior and then the roof. That's because it's entire vertical run is colder.  Sometimes more noticeable with newer stoves with their internal baffles and twisted smoke paths than on older stoves. Just another thing to consider. 


What's that XJ got hiding underneath and between the bigger tires? I have one that's been worked over.  8)  Great vehicles.  :) :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 28, 2009, 03:09:29 PM
Another thing about wood burning chimneys...  A chimney that exits the wall and then rises to above the roof peak may not draw as strongly as a chimney that goes up through the interior and then the roof. That's because it's entire vertical run is colder.  Sometimes more noticeable with newer stoves with their internal baffles and twisted smoke paths than on older stoves. Just another thing to consider.  


What's that XJ got hiding underneath and between the bigger tires? I have one that's been worked over.  8)  Great vehicles.  :) :)

Always a battle for space in a small cabin no?  Running it via the inside means I have to penetrate the roof (which I'd like to avoid) and will lose loft space.

It's cheaper, of course, and more efficient, but I'm thinking the Quadrafire 2100 series stove won't care -- after all, it's designed to heat a place 2 to 3 times larger!

Unless of course, I can find a smaller catalytic stove that's designed for something in the 400 to 700 sq/ft range?

The XJ has a Banks Torque Tube Header, High Flow Cat, Flow Masters, Rusty's TB Riser, K&N Filter on Rusty's pipe, DUI Dizzy cap and rotor, Firewire Coil, Livewire Plugs, HyperTech III Programming, New computer, new AC pump, new water pump, new fan clutch and relay, 3 core rad, E3 plugs...um....geez, you want me to remember? hehe....Those are Devino's (wheels) with 31's, OME 3" lift with ARB's and JKS quicker disco's, added rear leaf for towing, Warn 8000lbs winch and guard, custom rear bumper, Mastercraft seat.....probably forgetting a lot more.

Still need to change the gears since I'm still on stock ones and need to tweak a few other things -- it never ends!

But at 200k miles she runs great and hauls away!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 28, 2009, 04:12:39 PM
Unless of course, I can find a smaller catalytic stove that's designed for something in the 400 to 700 sq/ft range?

Vermont Casting Aspen


Still need to change the gears since I'm still on stock ones and need to tweak a few other things -- it never ends!

My XJ has 32" tires. I swapped the stock 3.55 gears for 4.56:1 and added ARB's in both diffs at the same time. With the 4.56's the overall average fuel mileage actually went up. Add to that the automatic transmission doesn't "hunt" as much on grades. 4.11's would work well with 31" tires.

I believe there is a break point on the gears. By that I mean one carrier for up to a certain gear ratio and another from that point up. It varies with axle make/model and year. I know the 4.56's required a carrier change which was why I did the gears and lockers all at once.



The 3 core radiator is a cool change; literally.   ;D

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 28, 2009, 06:03:59 PM
Unless of course, I can find a smaller catalytic stove that's designed for something in the 400 to 700 sq/ft range?

Vermont Casting Aspen


Still need to change the gears since I'm still on stock ones and need to tweak a few other things -- it never ends!

My XJ has 32" tires. I swapped the stock 3.55 gears for 4.56:1 and added ARB's in both diffs at the same time. With the 4.56's the overall average fuel mileage actually went up. Add to that the automatic transmission doesn't "hunt" as much on grades. 4.11's would work well with 31" tires.

I believe there is a break point on the gears. By that I mean one carrier for up to a certain gear ratio and another from that point up. It varies with axle make/model and year. I know the 4.56's required a carrier change which was why I did the gears and lockers all at once.



The 3 core radiator is a cool change; literally.   ;D



You know I wondered about the hunting -- on hills it's a killer when cruising down the interstate -- it's got to be my next major job but since I got nabbed twice now for the fenders I just ordered Rusty's to solve that little issue!

I'll check out Vermont Castings for a stove.  I want one that draws fresh air from the outside and is highly efficient (far less smoke).  One of the things I'm facing is a dry climate (not more then 15 inches of rain a year) and high fire hazard times.  So I need to be very careful with the stove and want one that doesn't exhaust much of anything -- hence the catalytic.

Cheers
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 28, 2009, 06:14:00 PM
The VC Aspen is a non catalytic model. It does have an optional outside air kit. I have a coarse screen in the chimney cap. I've never seen any embers rising. We too live in an area that is very dry most of the year. I like the Aspen, it has good room clearances and is more than enough for our 15.75 x 30 cabin. The big difference between your cabin and mine is that I went the way of very good insulation (R45 attic), very good windows, etc.

This past weekend with the night lows dropping to 40 F I only built one fire, Friday night on arrival. The interior temp never dropped below 67 overnight and I had to open a window a little to get it to drop that far.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 29, 2009, 09:15:51 AM
The VC Aspen is a non catalytic model. It does have an optional outside air kit. I have a coarse screen in the chimney cap. I've never seen any embers rising. We too live in an area that is very dry most of the year. I like the Aspen, it has good room clearances and is more than enough for our 15.75 x 30 cabin. The big difference between your cabin and mine is that I went the way of very good insulation (R45 attic), very good windows, etc.

This past weekend with the night lows dropping to 40 F I only built one fire, Friday night on arrival. The interior temp never dropped below 67 overnight and I had to open a window a little to get it to drop that far.

No loft?  

I'm learning Don!  I looked at this stove and you've sold one!  It's half what I was looking at and should do what I need -- I'll put the screen in and it's actually fairly efficient so that ought to help.

With the 14x24 and 6" walls, 6" floor, 8" rafters and vinyl how do you think this will do when it's below freezing?  I'm guessing just fine since it's rated to 600 sq/ft and I'm only 336!

In fact, I'm so motivated I'm bursting to get back to work!

Gotta love this forum!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 29, 2009, 09:50:27 AM

No loft? 


No loft. There's just Karen & I. Our adult son comes up some weekends and he either sleeps in the RV (which is more or less permanently parked up there and had room for 3 - 4), or he uses the sofa bed in the cabin. Neither K or I have any desire to climb a ladder to get to bed. So, no loft.

With a loft you may find a ceiling an handy for breaking up the stratification of the air. RCH makes a great fan or off grid applications; 12 or 24 VDC. We have the 24 VDC with the airfoil blades, the Vari-Cyclone. Plus we have the speed control.

http://www.thesolar.biz/RCH%20Fan%20Works%20DC%20Fans.htm


As an occasional use cabin you should be fine with a VC Aspen in what you've planned. That said, I am very happy with what I've done with our cabin.  :D

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 29, 2009, 09:55:17 AM
Great stuff thanks!

I'm going to get one of these little stoves -- it makes perfect sense!

You mentioned the 24v system and I've been wondering about my place.  It's mostly on a north slope, albiet gradual, so exposure isn't as good for solar but it isn't bad either.  I do have a south slope up top but that's some 800 feet from the cabin and I don't know if even 48vdc would make that run.

My thinking is that I only really need a small system to run a few lights and maybe a radio so plan on putting in a one panel system with Gen hookup and a small battery bank.  Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 29, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
The first step on the path to deciding what will be necessary for your cabin power is an honest assessment of the needs. How many lights of what size and for how many hours a day? How many cloudy days of use? What other power needs; water pump? microwave? fan? air blower on the stove? TV? ... and so on.

If there are no power hogs in use; microwave, well pump...., then you can MTL get away with a 12 VDC system. I chose a 24 VDC based system because of [1] microwave, [2], toaster, [3] the desire to run power tools w/o the generator running, [4] the desire to have a yard light and power at the gazebo, a 50 ft run and at the shed, a 25 ft run, [5] I know use will grow... there's a blender going up next weekend.

If you were to just run lights you could MTL get away with a 12 VDC system using Thinlite FL lighting.
http://solarseller.com/thinlite_low_voltage_12_volt_d_c__indoor_fluorescent_lighting_.htm
The low wattage units work well, but are best when close to the work area. We have some as under the cabinet lights. I also have one that lights the bathroom, mounted on the ceiling. It works as general lighting, but would never do for fine work like applying make up. That way you could dispense with an inverter and just run 12 VDC. I use a battery powered radio; a year or more on 4 C cells.

A couple, or four, 6 VDC golf car batteries (Sam's Club has the best $$ I've ever found) with a small panel and a cheap basic charge controller should keep them charged; properly sized of course. I ran the RV off 4 gold cart batteries for years and that included the forced air furnace. I used the generator to keep them charged and had a small PV panel to float them during our absences. That worked over the winter too.

800 feet would be a real stretch.  :o  For example at 5 amps maximum current from the panels, you'd need to use a 60 VDC panel array with #2 AWG wire to keep the voltage drop down to 3%. Three percent is a big drop at lower voltages.  




Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 29, 2009, 12:04:32 PM
Thanks Don,

I did some calcs a while back and the more I added the more I saw $$ go up!  Thankfully for this cabin I don't see much requirements -- I need a battery to run my 12v well pump (I use an RV battery and charge it with the generator when running it to power the trailer) and lights.  I was looking a system like this one:

http://www.siliconsolar.com/220w-dc-cabin-power-system-p-50117.html

Or

http://www.readymaderesources.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1177

There was one I found that should do the trick and was cheaper but being a newbie I've been just searching for systems that are turnkey solutions...perhaps I need to just get the pieces and start small?  I don't need much but admit it would be nice to have enough power to do a little more out there -- like run a laptop so I could get some work done maybe (would be nice to escape for a week and work at the same time)....

Anyway, that's where I'm looking...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 29, 2009, 12:10:31 PM
http://www.altestore.com/store/Kits-and-Package-Deals/Off-Grid-Cabin-Systems/Off-Grid-Cabin-package-4-520W-PV/p5694/
Spendy unit but probably more then I need.

http://www.ordermo.com/ofsosy.html
These guys have a small 160watt system I was looking at that might be more in line with what I need?

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/off-grid-cabin_solar-systems.html#SPS%20Cottage%20115
These don't include batteries so I'd have to get those...

Anyway, one thing I've not mentioned is that I work from home and becuase of that I could possibly do work in the cabin when I am on my get-away weekends or weeks (I work a lot) so having enough power to run the laptop would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 29, 2009, 12:50:41 PM
How do you NOT go work on your cabin?  I can't really justify the money ($140) to drive there and back without SOMETHING to do and I need to get my windows and a door sorted before I start framing walls -- heck I need to finish the plan for the walls too!

But I'm so motivated I could scream!

I'm ready to go pound nails RIGHT NOW and it's only Tuesday!

Are you addicted?  Clearly I am!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 29, 2009, 01:22:56 PM
I have been highly addicted to work, work, work on our cabin and property since the all of 2006. I slowed a tad once the cabin was dried in. Now that it is just about completed I've slowed a little more, or rather shifted energy back to the task of thinning out the trees. I would still rather be up there than here.  ;D  Luckily I have only a 66 mile (one way) drive.



Anyway, one thing I've not mentioned is that I work from home and because of that I could possibly do work in the cabin when I am on my get-away weekends or weeks (I work a lot) so having enough power to run the laptop would be a good thing.

Back to my first point; do an honest energy assessment. Then add 50% to it.  :D  Once you know how many KwH you would use in a typical 24 hour day then you have a much better handle on what you really need. The good thing is that a laptop does not use much power at all. I once measured my laptop actual use with a Kill-A-Watt meter and ound the actual use on AC power was something like half the rated power on the AC adapter/charger. The Kill-A-Watt is great for measuring the actual power use on any AC appliance up to 1800 watts. It doesn't work on DC.


Personally, and this may simply be "me", I have an aversion to off the shelf kits. They come with the parts the vendor wants to sell, which may be different from what I really want. I took a couple years, maybe longer, in studying up on solar and I know that not everyone has the time or the desire to do so. I'm probably odd man out there. Glenn has a large investment in time and equipment in PV and wind power as well.

There are a lot of vendors out there, some better than others I'm sure. I've dealt with two mainly. Affordable Solar (http://www.affordable-solar.com/) in Albuquerque and theSolar.Biz (http://thesolar.biz/Our_Complete_Product_Inventory.htm) . The Solar.biz doesn't do kits. Tom can help in a system design. Affordable has been helpful too. I will admit to a bias towards them that is partly because they are located near me and I can pick up and save on freight on some items.


One thing I discovered was that many popular charge controllers and inverters may not work at some of the lower temps my equipment at our cabin is exposed to in winter.


Have you read our Of Grid power topic? It's not a be-all or an end-all to alternate power but there is some good info scattered about that topic.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on September 29, 2009, 01:39:34 PM
Thanks Don,

I started to calculate needs but am still unsure what they will really be.  I have camped for several days in our tent trailer and use it steadily on the property now and it has one 12v deep cycle RV battery (from Les Swabb) and that seems to be fine for what we need.  When I need AC I run the generator (so I cheat).

I've been looking at small solar charging systems as a means to get a 'cheap' start on things.  One that I've looked at was a $200 panel and a $30 charge controller that is supposed to charge a 12v battery in several hours and can have more then one panel added to it.  It's undoubtedly way too small but I fiugured it might teach me a thing or two.

I've also begun using solar powered outdoor spot lights (security lights) and am happy with them though my main one is burned out and I need to fix it.

I've been trying to read that thread as well as others -- but I'm getting ADD I guess and need to get doing something -- so I jump around.  Anyway, one thought I had was go small with a system I can expand on easily enough and then if it isn't enough, add more :)

I work in telecom and used to build MW sites for Cell backhaul -- what this means is that I'm familiar with installing power systems and battery backup systems with DC controllers and rectifiers (chargers) so I figure I can do the work myself but don't know enough to just go buying parts....

But I've got several months yet as I don't plan on getting the solar power stuff until sometime early next year :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on October 01, 2009, 12:13:22 PM
Well the wife and I went and looked at windows.  We were debating some pretty cheapo options for the cabin however in the end the Vinyl Low-E windows won out.  Why?  After all, I'm talking $1000 for windows instead of perhaps a few hundred!  Well, two things:  One the wife likes the look better (she wins) and two I'm thinking that with a VC Aspen the better insulation might actually be called for.  Let me explain:

When I lived in a 600 sq ft cabin the wood stove roasted me out!  It wasn't something I could easily dampen down and it was designed for a larger place.  Thus I assumed (silly me) that I'd have the same issue in this case.  It doesn't sound like it.

So, with the VC Aspen designed specifically for us :) (small cabin owners) then having good insulation will make a big difference.  

I also stumbled on a Jotul cook stove -- very tiny one -- for $895 (he's had it ten years).  It's probably not approved for WA State (shhh) which has very stringent emissions laws but it's nearly half price and would be excellent to have if the propane ran out! ;)

So I might convince the wife to let me get it too....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on October 02, 2009, 12:38:18 PM
Ordered the VC Aspen today :)

I checked out several and found that this one was the smallest that also was approved for WA State.  The Jotul wasn't and the others I found were 30,000 BUT units which I think are just too big for a small 14x24 cabin.

One thing I've been considering is that I have the luxury of finding out.  After all, I'm going to build a 12x18 someday and if I feel the VC Aspen isn't big enough I can move it to this smaller cabin :)  If I like it, I'll get another for the 12x18!

Win win!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on October 05, 2009, 09:30:00 AM
OK Decided to put my drawings up that I've been working on -- for the walls.

I've scanned, cut and pasted from The Little House Plans I purchased from this site (John I hope this is OK to post here??  Please edit out if not and let me know what I need to do to post -- thanks).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabinPlan_SouthWall.jpg&hash=c8c7a793d526149d67a97531fa47e6b3)
This is the South wall -- the only door to enter the cabin.  It looks at both the driveway coming in as well as up the hill of the property -- it's the best view from down below and is south facing which should mean the door won't freeze shut and the snow will melt away easier :)

scanning and moving around throws things out of proportion a little and I modified the window drawings a little to try to match but basically this should be a 4x4 picture window with sliders a full sized door and a small window in the sleeping area (I'm still deciding if that shoudl be 3x2 or 2x2.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_NorthWall.jpg&hash=7cf68d35567d660510a545d3e8e649db)
The North wall shows a 2x4 window on the west side and a 4x2 over the sink in the kitchenette as well as a small bathroom window.

This side looks down the property towards the lowest portion -- and towards the creek.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on October 05, 2009, 09:30:58 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabinPlan1.gif&hash=14e332250200dc44c3a6cbc576113eb4)
This would be the East wall -- window over bed in sleeping area (more or less) a small 2x2 and a 2x2 in the loft.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on October 05, 2009, 09:37:15 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Westwall-1.gif&hash=dace0ca4887fa5ec431e7ba967fd1879)
West wall

Notice the offset fireplace.  I think this would be ok if it's centered between the lower and upper window.  The idea is to keep it as close to the peak as possible for support reasons but not to intrude on the windows themselves and to not run it inside the cabin to keep roof penetrations to zero (hard to leak if there are no holes in it) ;)

Any thoughts on any of these is appreciated!  After all, I've got to complete in the next day or so and then frame them!!!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on October 05, 2009, 05:12:45 PM
Since we do get a good bit of snow some years in this area I like the idea of some kind of 'cricket' over the front door to divert snow that slough's off.  Below the fascia the snow really piles up and is the last to melt away in spring.  Not knowing the floorplan if there was a way to move the entry door to the gable end would solve that issue too.  With your access winter visits might not be an option anyway so not sure how crittical it would be.

I'm also a fan of overhangs both at the fascia and at the gable ends.  I'm fairly protected yet wind can still drive snow and rain onto the porch.  Last year the snow remained about knee deep.  The overhangs kept the snow away from the building for the most part.  We've had some rain storms - sideways blowing rain storms - that managed to get most of the porch wet.  If you do decide to add some overhangs consider the steep (12/12?) pitch of your roof and how it might affect windows, trim, headroom, soffit, doors... etc. when figuring projection (probably didn't need to say it but just in case) to avoid interference.  

This is what my place looked like in February.  The quiet and solitude is absolutely glorious.  Very few souls within miles of me, just a few critters - surprising number of deer - and the temperature, in the teens, is quite comfortable outside with a hot beverage and a comfy chair.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Feb9snowcabin.jpg&hash=3fc583e749b5001d54d169ff9a43ca9f)

My roof (8/12) isn't as steep and holds a fair amount of snow.  When I visited in April most of the snow was gone except for below the eves.  This year is was very dry and easy shoveling.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 05, 2009, 05:36:45 PM
Congrats on the VC stove.  :D


I second the thought about the door on the long side. In our original versions, I was going to place our door there, but didn't want a shed roof porch on the side where snow sliding off the main roof would collect. Nor did I want to mess with a dormer type roof over a small porch. That was my personal thing; I didn't want to deal with cutting the metal roofing to it. Maybe a poor excuse, but there it is. Hence our door on the end with a modified shed roof.  I also like Yonderosa's porch and roof.


The amount of overhang (~26 inches) on the eves on our cabin would have been a problem with a steeper pitch roof. Raising the wall height would help. It keeps the summer sun out of the windows, in fact it shades virtually the entire south side wall in July & August, and now lets the sun hit the glass and brighten/warm up the interior. In winter it also gives a safe space to walk outside from one end to the other.


The only question I have regarding the chimney and stove placement is how close to that lower floor vinyl window will the stove be?


Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Oljarhead on October 06, 2009, 06:42:18 AM
Thanks guys,

What isn't seen in these drawings is the porch!

I put the door on the south wall becuase the south wall will get more sun and melt more snow.  I also will be building a deck around the entire cabin (ala Nash) and putting an enclosed porch in front of the door.

I will be putting a deck roof over the deck -- at least 4 feet anyway -- at some point and the drawings aren't to scale and don't include the 10' walls (sorry I was in a hurry).  So with 10' walls I figure I can get away with less overhang since I'm going to put a roof on the deck surrounding the cabin :)

I'll try to get the plans done closer to what I intend so it's easier to see but in the meantime I might try to find another countryplans builders cabin that inspired some of this...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 07, 2009, 12:13:35 PM
I will be off to the shop site this weekend :)

Need to get walls framed up and maybe if the burn ban is lifted get some wood burned too.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 07, 2009, 12:25:58 PM
It's always good to get rid of or reduce the fire danger. We'll be doing the same thing Thursday thru Monday.

G/L
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 07, 2009, 03:25:51 PM
It's always good to get rid of or reduce the fire danger. We'll be doing the same thing Thursday thru Monday.

G/L

I'm also planning on trimming limbs to about 6 feet off the ground but I figure it might take a LONG time to get there!  20 acres is pretty big and I've got LOTS of trees :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 07, 2009, 05:11:21 PM
Start around the cabin and make ever widening circles.  That's a great idea to clear of the dead lower limbs, even the living ones at times. That's know as ladder fuel; makes it easier or a ground fire to climb into the tree tops. We have some of that to do as well.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 08, 2009, 10:24:22 AM
Start around the cabin and make ever widening circles.  That's a great idea to clear of the dead lower limbs, even the living ones at times. That's know as ladder fuel; makes it easier or a ground fire to climb into the tree tops. We have some of that to do as well.

That was exactly my idea!  Start with a 100 foot radius and work my way out.

need to get a trailer for the ATV to haul good burning wood back to the cabin site and to haul stuff from various locations to the burn pile spots.

But with the difficulty of getting to the property (hours) I'm always limited in time....but lots of camp fires should help!

:)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 08, 2009, 10:55:08 AM
Achoring walls.

One thing I don't see in the plans and my memory cannot bring back for me:  anchoring walls to the floor.

I'm thinking I need to bolt the walls to the floor but I just can't seem to recall what is required on a wood framed floor.

Thanks in advance.
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Bobmarlon on October 08, 2009, 06:29:45 PM
to my knowledge you need two nails between each two studs with the nails up close to the studs.   Im not sure which size nail though I used 3 1/4
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on October 09, 2009, 07:15:53 AM

The sheeting should extend below the bottom plate and tie into the floor framming.
Nailing through the bottom plate into the sub-floor will hold the walls in place- but the real strength is in the sheets that tie the walls to the floor.  For engineered sheer walls I believe there needs to be some kind of bolt/mechanical tie-down- I'm sure $impson makes one.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 09, 2009, 08:28:54 AM
I was thinking that since it's 16 oc and nailing is 16oc the intent is two 16d nails into the joist.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ScottA on October 09, 2009, 10:28:05 AM
I ran my sheeting down and attached it to the rim joist with 2 rows of nails.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 09, 2009, 10:56:36 AM
I ran my sheeting down and attached it to the rim joist with 2 rows of nails.

How far down?  I plan to do the same thing actually and was thinking of going the entire 5.5" down the rim joist with felt and sheeting.

I'm doing 10' walls anyway so might as well go to the bottom of the rim joists and the top of the wall (so 10 1/21 min).

Title: SNOW!
Post by: OlJarhead on October 09, 2009, 11:44:36 AM
Geez can't I catch a break?

I'm getting ready to head out to the property and discovered it would be 12-18 degrees (F) tonight in the nearest town (about 1500 feet lower in altitude too)...so it will be COLD tonight!

But then I read Monday SNOW is expected!!!!  YIKES!

So, now I'm fighting an issue:  If I frame up the walls and get them done and it snows and I have just a tarp on top of the framed up walls and floor the tarp will of course cave and the snow will land smack dab in the middle of my cabin floor :(

So, my thinking is that I've got to work fast and efficiently and frame the loft too so that I can at least have the tarp stop on the loft if it does snow and crash inward....then maybe the following weekend get it out and frame the roof -- which means I'd miss some of hunting season :(

I'd hoped to frame the walls, tarp it all and then wait until after hunting season to do the roof...maybe not such a good plan?

Seems the Canadian's are sending a massive cold front our way that aims to break low temp records....nice.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ScottA on October 09, 2009, 02:53:25 PM
Quote
How far down?

All the way down. Same with the tar paper.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 12, 2009, 08:21:15 AM
Quote
How far down?

All the way down. Same with the tar paper.

Yup, once I looked at it I realized how good of an idea that was :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 12, 2009, 08:34:21 AM
Lessons Learned, remembering things, mistakes made, patience and impatience and oh ya, we'll deliver for 50 bucks!

What a weekend! ;)

So, there I was driving down the road happy as can be on my way to pick up materials for my cabin so I could get framing walls.  I had it all figured out too.

First, I'd load up all 72 studs...wait, 72?  Isn't that a bit heavy?  Yup.  Hmmm.....

So there I was driving back to the cabin site with half the load I intended having to turn around and go back to get the other half of the load and not being able to get ALL of what I planned for the weekend.  Oh and the Canadians decided to send down some artic weather to mix it up a bit -- can we say sub freezing cold as you know what flash freezing bloody cold weather?

How's 5 degrees grab ya?  In a tent trailer....

So anyway, after getting the second load of stuff on the trailer and preparing to roll off the yard I see what looks like a 1 1/4 ton offroad delivery vehicle extraodinaire...hmmmm... the exchange when like this:

"So I'm curious, do you deliver?"

Store worker "Yes, where to?"

"Totally off road up hill, around the bend and over the mountains -- what do you charge?"

Store dude "All the way up there?  in 4 wheel drive no less?  Hmmm.... how's 50 bucks?"

I picked my jaw back up and promptly determined my next trip would be more productive -- as in they'd do the delivery and I'd actually get something done!  DOH!

Back at the site we began in earnest to bang up a wall.  I cut the studs to 10' even knowing I'd gain 4.5" of wall height on them but thanks to John determined that the extra inches would be nice in the loft.

After the wall was built and squared I wisely (maybe not so) decided to nail on one sheet of sheeting to keep it square and then stood it up.  The sheeting helped to secure it to the floor (thanks Scott et al) and with braces in place it was plumb and we were ready for the next wall -- the tough one...and it was getting late and where did that frost come from?

So as I began to work on the next wall I realized I'd made a rookie mistake -- I made the wall the right size but making it the 'inside' wall (meaning the outer wall would nail to it so it was shorter by the thickness of the other wall) I'd made the rush/rookie error of nailing down a 'nailer' on it as if it were the longer wall -- DOH!...ok I'll survive right?  Ya Sure.

Anyway, back to wall number two...a simple affair of 10' wall with a 2x10 notched into it...um huh?  crap!  So there I was bent over with a skill saw cutting notches after the wall was framed 90%......(shouldn't you at least square it first?...nah we can do it...ya right).....

So, finally, frustrated, cold and in the dark (literally) I put the saw down and cleaned up for the night...we'll start at 9AM at the latest!

3AM -- it's cold!

6:30AM -- turn the heat OFF!

6:45 AM -- damn it's cold again -- turn the heat ON!

So the morning went hoping not to run out of propane and thinking it was not going to be a good day.  By 9AM I was thinking maybe we could start at noon becuase by then it ought to at least be warm enough to work right?  I mean it ought to have warmed up to FREEZING by noon anyway right?

Ya Sure Uhuh.....

More later ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Don & Ginger Lundgren on October 12, 2009, 08:47:27 AM
Man that had me laughing really hard. If anyone had seem me they would have thought I was nuts. I feel for you and the cold. I hope you have some little bit better weather to work in soon.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 12, 2009, 09:03:57 AM
Man that had me laughing really hard. If anyone had seem me they would have thought I was nuts. I feel for you and the cold. I hope you have some little bit better weather to work in soon.

*chuckle* Sorry couldn't resist -- I used to write for a car magazine (little known obscure one) and that was my style -- poke fun at myself becuase there is just SO much material there! ;) :P

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-1stwall.jpg&hash=7117af8081e95a4767a745fa73468ab5)
Fist wall goes up...it's within 1/16th of an inch square...of course that's the first wall and as you will find I'm prone to that most human condition "stupidity" in which I will do all manner of wonderful things like hammering ones thumb (not this time) or perhaps, shall we say, installing a loft beam before squaring the next wall...anyone have a fix for dumn man syndrome?  -- kidding, It's a cabin and I'm sure it won't fall down just becuase I can't keep one wall within 1/4 inch (John, if it will fall down don't tell me so I can finish it, go to sleep in it and then be crushed by the loft -- which would be fitting really but I digress...who needs square walls anyway right?  Seriously, have you ever seen....no never mind you probably have anyway....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-2ndwall.jpg&hash=e9023131d1e20376ca40f2b0b45f1c3e)
Did you know that ten feet was longer then ten feet 5 1/2 inches?  Yup, sure is!  At least it is after you added one wall to another ;)

So there is my first loft beam -- wanna guess if it's level?  Hell I don't even know though the level that stuck to my hand (Erik Level Hands) should have been useful for determining that but I was too busy chasing cows (yes real cows) away from my favorite spot to try to catch deer winking at the new trail cam...but that's another story....

So anyway, yes, we learned some things ;) and no the level didn't really stick to my hand I was just kidding, after all it DID warm up to freezing by noon.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 12, 2009, 09:21:40 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCowCam.jpg&hash=febfd31eb0b1c57c4b67cff8c5dc1aeb)
My property is in a 'Free Range' area and so the neighbors cows and horses come and hang out when they feel like it.

I have to put up a 4 wire fence to keep them out (if you use 3 wires then the neighbors don't have to pay for damages) and since my land was unoccupied for ever -- literally -- there isn't much of a fence (actually on on 3 sides and what's left the cows have pushed down in places to cross).

So, I've got to do some work to convince them to leave the mineral licks I leave for the deer!

Saw some Turkey's this weekend (nice big fat ones) and some White Tailed Deer (doe and a buck) as well as lots of Coyote tracks and of course the little howling buggers woke the gang up on Friday (not me though)....and say just outside the Tent Trailer howling away at my son who worried that if he complained I'd get mad at him -- ha!  Even see a coyote run?  Just rack the slide! ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 12, 2009, 09:23:53 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FHorseCam.jpg&hash=8e1fff36d3acb9d2d8c4cdbfeb68ee2e)
So I got this new 'HorseCam'.....

Yes here it is, early evening, it's dark and the deer, er I mean horses are out eating away...

No wonder the deer tracks are always heading past the blocks....

Actually they aren't and I'm hoping after a week of no nail pounding or camp fires the deer will be back.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 12, 2009, 03:55:29 PM
"So I'm curious, do you deliver?".....
.... how's 50 bucks?"


That's what we did. The yard is about an hour away on a twisty, steep grades road. $50 delivery for the entire framing, sheathing, roof lumber, tar paper, etc. materials list package. We did have to shuffle the load once it was dropped, but it sure beat all the driving I would have had to do.


You definitely need a good livestock fence. I got tired of dodging cow pies. Lot of work though.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on October 13, 2009, 07:26:11 AM
Eric,
All this whining about the cold and just down the road from you were a bunch of hippies dancing nekkid at the annual microbus/hemp/tie-dye fair.  Can you believe the locals were getting $10 car to let them park in their fields?

All kidding aside, I was exactly the same spot last year - tarp the floor or get it dried it.  A gap in my employment allowed me to spend a week there to get it framed and roofed.  Delivery was worth every penny as it saved me at least a day of shuttling. 

I'm betting you'll do just fine this hunting year with a rifle leaned up in the corner of your new blind... er I mean shop.  Had this dude walk right next to my blind, er I mean shed... er, you know what I mean while we were up last weekend.  I was eating breakfast enjoying the view when he strolled by real casual like.  Had just enough time to grab the camera and take a picture through the window before he skedaddled off...  He's been killing turkeys on my property and leaving me a lot of feathers to tie flies with...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fobcat.jpg&hash=b076ef8c4b4c03856b49b67d67ff0ed5)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 13, 2009, 12:55:30 PM
Saw some Turkey's on the property last weekend -- thought maybe I ought to bring some cracked corn for them ;)

Can't wait to get back and see what the Trail Cam reveals!  What a neat invention!!! :D [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: curlewdave on October 13, 2009, 01:50:43 PM
Lots of turkeys starting to show up over here.  Last spring I was walking up the driveway ( up  Empire Creek, just south of Curlew), heard a quiet shuffling behind me , turned and looked, to see a flock of 25-30 turkeys shuffling along behind me, as if I was the flock leader...I just lost my desire to shoot  any toms, as they like to strut by the place and wake me up every morning......
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 14, 2009, 02:13:03 PM
I am so stoked to get back to the land Friday!  Going to do some hunting but also try to get some walls up.  It's been raining and even a little snow so I'm curious to see how things are.

Going to borrow an air nailer and compressor to speed the process up too!  Been a while since I had to produce but with winter coming on fast I need to get the walls up and the floor finished (braces etc) and then get a roof on!!!

Going to order windows soon too and with luck can have it closed up for the winter in a month....but in the mean time I'm dying to see what the trail cam is taking pictures of!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ScottA on October 14, 2009, 04:45:26 PM
You gotta love the pressue!  :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 15, 2009, 01:25:21 PM
Got to thinking last night that since I left the Tent Trailer popped up (with the door locked) that if a bear were wondering by and smelled anything inside that was of interest he might deside to go in and take a peak around...I'm hoping not!

Hadn't thought of that really since there hasn't been any problems there -- we're out of site out of mind -- but having seen bear prints on the land I do worry I'll show up to find the trailer trashed :(  I hope not!

But I'm heading there tomorrow!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 15, 2009, 03:09:10 PM
G/L on the bears.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on October 15, 2009, 06:00:49 PM
This year it seems we have a bunch of bears around.  So far (knock on wood) we've not had any issues with the two bears that frequent my place.  My neighbors that have had problems either left garbage out or had barbecues knocked around, usually it is the yearling bears looking for an easy meal. 

how far away is that salt lick from your place.  I put on in a stump this spring and the bears literally ripped the stump to shreds.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 15, 2009, 06:03:44 PM
This year it seems we have a bunch of bears around.  So far (knock on wood) we've not had any issues with the two bears that frequent my place.  My neighbors that have had problems either left garbage out or had barbecues knocked around, usually it is the yearling bears looking for an easy meal. 

how far away is that salt lick from your place.  I put on in a stump this spring and the bears literally ripped the stump to shreds.



I put mineral rocks up about a 1/4 mile from my cabin site and only noticed one set of bear tracks near it a couple weeks ago.

I also have some mineral licks about 100 - 150 yards away that the cows enjoy but haven't seen bear tracks there.

Seems the bears (knock on wood) have been staying away from the area but perhaps becuase we're there pretty much every weekend.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 21, 2009, 08:45:17 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-hunting006.jpg&hash=69db5630cf0b15f20d0992047110eb78)
Boy's went out to find dinner -- dinner escaped, left the county, moved out of country....darn dinner!

So I put up another wall.

One thing of note:  when impatient like me (don't be) try READING (read and you will succeed) the darn panels a little.

I was nailing away happily in my own world swinging my Estwing 22oz waffle faced framing hammer (made in the USA) and really feeling good about getting this wall done when I realized I'd put the OSB inside out.....um...ah....darn it!  I guess 17 years of not framing has cost me a lot of knowledge becuase I couldn't for the life of remember it being that way....smooth side in -- oops.

Ahh well, it's not like this is a house so I'll leave it and put the rest on the other way.

One thing of note, I did intentionally put the floor smooth side up -- why?  Becuase I want to put clear (ish) deck stain on it and leave it -- so did I screw that up too?

Off to go search for OSB knowledge like a 'newb' as the kids would say.....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on October 21, 2009, 09:33:36 AM
Eric, If you would use a Hart hammer (made in the USA - probably been outsourced out of business since I bought mine..)  you simply wouldn't make as many mistakes...  :P :D ;) 

I've had mine for almost 20 years, it's on its fourth handle - only have one or two handles left in reserve...  :o  Despite the abuse I give it it has outlasted 3 or more nail bags as well.

Also, didn't you know that a waffle face is a sure sign of a rookie?   ;D ;)  Hopefully we won't have to read that you had to heat up an 8d nail to pierce the thumbnail that you smashed to relieve the pressure from the swelling...  :(  Of course a 16d would be more impressive... 

Just razzing you man.  Good to see those Deer weren't distracting you too bad to get some work done.

"All tools are hammers, except chisels - and they're screwdrivers."
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 21, 2009, 12:39:34 PM
:P  Used many but always found my Estwing (Made in America still) to fit me best.

Waffle faced hammers are for framers -- the ones that actually frame ;)  Only rookies or finishing men think otherwise.  Of course, all framers have hit themselves with big waffle faced hammers as rookies and gotten that out of the way -- me too.  Also shot myself through the hand with an air nailer back in 1992 -- ya I learned real quick!

On a side note I find smooth faced framing hammers (have one of those anti-vibe things too) to suck in comparison.  Just something about positive control....but you know all that ;) :P

The OSB thing bothers me though.  I guess becuase I was just in such a hurry I didn't pay attention -- funny really since attention to detail is what gets me success in my real job....

The little things you don't think about (like reading the dang wood for example) will get ya.  But thankfully this isn't a dwelling to be lived in so it doesn't matter as much -- I still want to get it right mind you, just not going to get mad over spilled milk so to speak.

If it were my home though, I'd rip it off and do it again! 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 21, 2009, 12:42:10 PM
Quote
Panels should be installed textured side up with their long direction across the rafters or truss chords.
Found that here: http://osbguide.tecotested.com/faq14

But that is roof sheeting not walls...maybe it doesn't matter on the wall and it's only for footing on the roof?

Does anyone know?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 21, 2009, 12:44:03 PM
Quote
Lay panels across three or more supports, keeping the side marked "This Side Down" on the supports when using T&G panels.

Now I'm getting more curious...I mean, why would it matter that it's T&G anyway?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 21, 2009, 12:49:28 PM
I believe there is no right or wrong side for a wall, it's all covered by weather barrier, etc on the exterior anyways. The only reason there is a right way for a roof is the textured side is much less slippery to walk on. I would not sweat the wall panel.


The bigger worry is overdriving nails or driving them too close to the panel edge.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 21, 2009, 12:51:21 PM
Quote
A: Tom Silva replies: It doesn't make a bit of difference from a structural standpoint. A wall, a floor, or a roof will be just as strong no matter which side faces up or out. But on a newly sheathed roof, leaving the lightly textured side up does give a bit of extra traction.

If the OSB has tongue-and-groove edges, there's another issue to consider. According to the Structural Board Association, the tongue-and-groove profile is not symmetrical, so the sheets must all be facing the same way for the joints to match. With those panels, look for the "This side down" stamp and follow that direction. http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/asktoh/question/0,,430695,00.html
Feeling more like maybe I'm not a moron -- it could be we knew that and didn't care -- hence my not thinking about it.

http://www.panelized.com/techlib/Documentation/pdf/Panelized/Which%20Side%20Up0001.pdf
That does it -- whipes brow -- I just had a moment of brain fartedness and it doesn't matter.

But so many years have passed I thought I really messed up somehow.  Ever done that?  Questioned yourself?  Doubted Yourself?  Of course you have, we all do but I do it all the time! hehe...damn me!

OK back to reality!  WhooHoo!  No screw up!  Now I just need to get cracking the weather is moving in!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 21, 2009, 12:56:44 PM
I believe there is no right or wrong side for a wall, it's all covered by weather barrier, etc on the exterior anyways. The only reason there is a right way for a roof is the textured side is much less slippery to walk on. I would not sweat the wall panel.


The bigger worry is overdriving nails or driving them too close to the panel edge.

That is what I figured and of course read (posted here already) -- I do this all the time though, then go look it up and sometimes I'm good (like this time) sometimes not -- ce la vie

But, the good news is I will have them deliver the rest of the sheeting -- in the beginning of November as well as all of the rest of the lumber to frame the roof and the loft.  That way I can get it finished for the winter anyway!  I just need to close it in so I'll order windows within the next week probably too -- that way I can get them in once the roof is on.

I'm pushing my luck of course, since the winter is coming on fast and furious this year, but I'm hopeful for some dry weather for the next couple months (please!).....then I won't care :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 22, 2009, 06:20:03 AM
I'm planning the next phase of the build now.  My plan is to get all the remaining lumber needed to get the roof on brought in (for $50) and to drive up with an air nailer to speed the process up.

I can put on the last 1 1/2 walls in a day and get the loft done in the 2nd day -- at that point it might be easier to cover it with a temp roof then last weekend!

That leaves me one more weekend to get the roof framed and sheeted and then I ought to be good!  I'm really hoping to get all of this done before any big snow fall because I'd hate to fail to get the roof on and then end up with 3 feet of snow sitting on the floor!

But we'll see!

Pick the stove up today anyway :)
Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on October 22, 2009, 02:41:39 PM
Have tools  - including compressor, generator and nail guns, oh an of course, a Hart hammer  ;) :) -  will work for gas money and beer.   ;) d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 26, 2009, 06:10:55 AM
Have tools  - including compressor, generator and nail guns, oh an of course, a Hart hammer  ;) :) -  will work for gas money and beer.   ;) d*

Wow!  Thanks for the offer Yonderosa!   Very kind and I would probably take you up on the offer if you were local but wouldn't want you to have to drive the several hours from home to the area just to bang nails with me!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 06:26:26 AM
Starting to get antsi now!  It's Wednesday and Friday is just around the corner!  I'm ordering the rest of the lumber soon so I can have it delivered on Monday.  I'll get there Friday night and try to frame up the remaining walls on Saturday and Sunday (shoudl be no problem) then that leaves Monday and Tuesday (I'm off all week actually) to frame the roof and sheet it!

I'm hoping I can get the roof sheeted and wrapped in felt before I leave.

one question about temporary roofing:  If I use felt (30lbs) and nail down 1x2 strips to hold it on in case of wind etc will I need to replace it in the spring"?  Will it leak much?  At all?

I'm really out of time but if there are any other ideas about how to protect my project through the worst of the winter let me know!

One idea i have is to install the wood stove and burn it each month when I get up there to try to help keep it dry.  This area is pretty dry but I'm worried about the snow and it's been raining a lot lately.

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on October 28, 2009, 06:51:30 AM
how much exposure to wind do you have?

I'd be half tempted to paper, and then tarp and then batten the heck out of it.   

Last year the snow was very dry and fluffy.  My neighbors say that is not typical.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 10:02:42 AM
how much exposure to wind do you have?

I'd be half tempted to paper, and then tarp and then batten the heck out of it.   

Last year the snow was very dry and fluffy.  My neighbors say that is not typical.

I'd think very low exposure to wind -- we're on the north slope 100 feet from the top with a 30 foot drop to the bottom below us and BIG trees all around the lower section.

WE feel very little wind in the cabin site though it could pick up I suppose.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 10:06:14 AM
how much exposure to wind do you have?

I'd be half tempted to paper, and then tarp and then batten the heck out of it.   

Last year the snow was very dry and fluffy.  My neighbors say that is not typical.

I was planning a ridge cap over felt and battens to hold it on.  The tarp idea has merit - maybe tied down over the battens even?  Certainly could nail battens along the ridge all the way around to keep the tarp on.

Or if time permits I could get the roofing done (preferred).

One thing I've noticed is the shed, which is at least 3 or 4 years old, has done very well despite only tyvex stapled to the sides and some exposed OSB.

It is rolled on the roof with a ridge vent but otherwise quite exposed yet still strong, clean and dry.  Perhaps the 14-15 inches of rain a year have something to do with that.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 28, 2009, 10:59:28 AM
FWIW, half our cabin walls were let over winter with just the felt secured with button cap nails. We had no problem there.

The roof sat for a month or so with #30 felt secured with the same button cap nails. Over the ridge I placed a 20 foot wide sheet of clear 6 mil plastic, centered on the 10 ft fold mark. I pulled it tight and screwed as assortment of salvaged 1x2 and 1x4 pieces around all the edges. That was in place for a short time, but I did it thinking I might get stuck by the weather and have to leave it over the winter. It was quite windy and held out well.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 11:07:03 AM
FWIW, half our cabin walls were let over winter with just the felt secured with button cap nails. We had no problem there.

The roof sat for a month or so with #30 felt secured with the same button cap nails. Over the ridge I placed a 20 foot wide sheet of clear 6 mil plastic, centered on the 10 ft fold mark. I pulled it tight and screwed as assortment of salvaged 1x2 and 1x4 pieces around all the edges. That was in place for a short time, but I did it thinking I might get stuck by the weather and have to leave it over the winter. It was quite windy and held out well.



Awesome!  This is the sort of stuff I need to hear to pick my spirits up!  Thanks Don!

News of rain and snow has me sweating bullets!  I am itching to get the walls finished (shoudl be done Saturday no problem as long is it isn't too foul of weather) and then the roof framed and sheeted -- If I can do that Monday then by Tuesday I can have it felted and will feel 100% better about the foul weather.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 01:55:06 PM
Question:

I plan on insulating the roof on my little place and beleive I will need proper venting for both winter (cold) and summer (hot).  My thought was to install 2x vent blocks instead of just rafter blocks on top of the wall and then a ridge vent/cap at the top.

Does this sound right?  Should the vent blocks be every rafter opening?

Is 2x4x24" vent blocks correct for 2x6 rafters on a 12:12 pitch?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 28, 2009, 04:57:09 PM
I'm not an expert, okay. But since nobody else has chimed in, here goes...

According to code there is a minimum amount of vent area. It is calculated as no less than 1/150th of the area to be ventilated. There are if's and and's that allow that to be reduced to 1/300. (position o vents and vapor barrier enter into this.)

So you have a 14x24 = 336 sq ft. I we use 1/150 you need 336/150 = 2.24 sq t o vent. If we use 1/300 you need 1.12 sq ft. The area is the free area of the vent: louvers and screen reduce the area of the vent.

I've also seen recommendations that one sq inch of ventilation be provided for each square foot.

The total area is then divided between air in and air out, with air in being the sofits and air out being the ridge vent.  It would appear that with adequate vapor barrier and the soffit/ridge venting you could use 1 sq ft of soffit and 1 sq ft of ridge area. Note that soffit vents can also be exit vents if the wind is blowing.

I don't see anything that says the area must be equally distributed between the rater bays, unless I missed it. So my opinion is you need not place a vent in each bay. Each vent must have a clear path for the air though, and that is where those foam baffle things come in handy with a roof/attic like mine... insulation laying on the ceiling. The baffles keep a free path for the air to move from the soffits up into the attic space. The baffles are also called air chutes.

But your roof is different.  :D I imagine you mean to place insulation in between the rafters and place ceiling material under that to achieve a loft and/or cathedral ceiling. In that case You would need to provide ventilation from bottom to top of each rater bay. However, I think you can get away with every other bay IF there is ventilation between each bay, as in holes drilled through the rafters. ???

Another note: better ridge vents have baffles like below...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oikos.com%2Fesb%2F30%2Fridgevent2.JPG&hash=16cb70a300a3b0d0b6d5e15ba0f7042c)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 28, 2009, 05:02:19 PM
There are also methods to build a cathedral roof using unvented design.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buildingscience.com%2Fdocuments%2Fdigests%2Fbsd-149-unvented-roof-assemblies-for-all-climates%2F2007-07-24.7947325648&hash=2636ef938443a221154a84d791c7adb5)

Building Science has information on this.

"Unvented roof assemblies, such as conditioned attics and unvented cathedral ceilings, are becoming common in North American construction.  It is estimated that over 100,000 have been constructed since 1995.  These assemblies are created by eliminating ventilation openings and moving the thermal, moisture and air control boundaries to the plane of the roof deck."

Full article available at...

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-149-unvented-roof-assemblies-for-all-climates?full_view=1

You can D/L it in PD at...

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-149-unvented-roof-assemblies-for-all-climates/?searchterm=roof%20ventilation

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 08:21:45 PM
Thanks Don!

Wouldn't venting each rafter bay be better?  Specially in the summer when it gets VERY hot?  Like say 100 degrees out? 

My worry is that an unvented roof, while water proof of course, would not vent the hot air radiating in from the roofing thus the heat would radiate into the loft area of the cabin -- making it hotter and hotter?

I plan on reading the article too (thanks) but am thinking a vent block in each bay followed by a good ridge vent and the roof would 'breath' thus allowing hot air to be vented out of the roof in the summer.

In the winter I'm less worried becuase wood stoves tend to work VERY well in small cabins :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 08:29:25 PM
Interesting article!

However, I can't see blowing in the foam in my location ;) so I'm back to standard venting I think.

My hope is that with fiberglass insulation (R19) in the 2x6 framing, 30lbs felt on the roof sheeting and a tin roof with some sort of interior covering (maybe some pine T&G on vapor barrier) and it will at least allow venting of hot air in the summer and provide insulation to keep the heat in during the winter -- that's the thought anyway.

My walls and floor will all be R19 -- nothing fancy sure, but with side skirts around the cabin and the wood stove I'm thinking we're good :)

Besides, the propane RV heater keeps the tent trailer warm when it's 5 degrees out! hehe  so the Cabin HAS to be warmer with the VC Aspen and 6" walls, floor and roof!

I can't wait!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 28, 2009, 08:31:38 PM
I wrote this before your last post and didn't feel like editing it.   ;)


Yes, in a cathedral ceiling roof like you would be building I think ventilating each bay would be best.

As for the building science article, it is a good one. However, to do the job the best way requires the use of closed cell spray foam. And that's best done by a professional installer. I threw it in as something interesting.

IF I was building a new full time residence I'd give serious consideration to many o the design ideas that building science has.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 28, 2009, 08:42:00 PM

My hope is that with fiberglass insulation (R19) in the 2x6 framing, ...


One second on that. 2x6 rafters aren't deep enough for a ventilation space (1" recommended I think) and the R19, without furring out the 2x6 or some other plan.  ???

BTW, I really don't understand why all the stores carry R19 and sell it to folks like ourselves who have built with 2x6 studs. A 2x6 = 5 1/2 inches, right? The R19 that I see is all rated to be 6 1/4 inches thick.  When compressed into a 5 1/2 inch space it becomes R18.

From Owens-Corning

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi133.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq75%2Fdjmillerbucket%2Foddsnends%2Fcompressedfibreglass.jpg&hash=a12c80ecb6d8df0392bf5fecd220cdb3)

The R21 which would be ideal is available locally here, but only from insulation installers who will only sell it with installation (but wanted a fortune to go up to the mountains) , or in minimum quantities that are too large for a simple cabin like mine.  d*

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 29, 2009, 01:42:50 AM
Interesting!  So R21 is what I need?  Seems too small also since it's 5 1/2 inches also.

Interesting.

Makes you wonder if there is greater benefit in using a R15 or something?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on October 29, 2009, 03:11:42 AM
I'm not sure what your plan calls for but here is what I did.  I used 2x8 rafters, vented every rafter bay (bird blocks) and used gable end vents.  The 2x8's allowed me to use R-21 on the vaulted sections gave me the 1" gap between the insulation and roof deck.  The collar ties/ceiling joists form a small attic and I was able to use R38 there.  My walls are 2x4 and I used R 13 because it all that was locally available at the time.  The floor uses R-21.  

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fonstructionrafterview.jpg&hash=642fb5c6cb869801b6577d7261dc1a22)

On our last trip the nightly lows ranged from 15*F to 18*F.  Running our "Big Buddy" heater for about an hour would heat the inside to a very comfortable 65*F at which point I would shut it down.  We would lose 2-3 degrees per hour so relighting  the heater every 4 or five hours was required.

During the warm weather the inside temperature would be around 15 degrees cooler than the outside temperature if we kept the windows and door closed. 95*F was the highest we saw this year.  The nights would drop into the low 40's and no heat was required.  

Conversely our TRAILER required heating year round at night and the warm days were not pleasant to be inside it.

Even though we didn't super insulate I'm pleased with the performance.  
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 30, 2009, 02:07:17 PM
Thanks guys!

No cabin work for me this weekend :(  In fact, it may be another week before I get there (not good) as work has suddenly interfered (and I do need to work).

I told my boss that I'm just a manager and if I have to work as a Director well then he knows what to do.

We'll see if anything comes of it but he did say "I can't disagree with anything you're saying".  Good then give me the promotion and the pay raise and I'll pay someone to finish my cabin ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 02, 2009, 09:49:03 AM


Survived the snow and rain barely - had 25 gallons of water in the tarp I guess...got it out and strung it a little tighter...not good!  I need to get back to work on it but work has held me off.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on November 02, 2009, 10:20:22 AM
I did the same dance with the water, I can relate, but it all turned out ok, so will yours.   c*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 02, 2009, 01:44:52 PM
I did the same dance with the water, I can relate, but it all turned out ok, so will yours.   c*
[cool]

Thanks!  I am really stressing but a lot of that is work!  I'm a key player in a startup with contracts with all the big boys in Cellular (ATT, Verizon, TMO, Sprint etc) and we broke the TMO network (all sites down) in Southern New Jersey last week :(  d*

Was very bad and stressful but we're getting through it -- if we succeed here then there is no stopping us :)

And I can get back to cabin building instead of looking at sites and circuits ;)

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 06, 2009, 03:05:48 PM
This weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Materials ordered for Monday delivery.  I plan to finish the wall framing Saturday and Sunday.

Wish me luck!!!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 06, 2009, 04:21:52 PM
All the best! May the weather cooperate!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 06, 2009, 05:53:35 PM
All the best! May the weather cooperate!

Amen!  I picked up a compressor and nailer from a friend and need a box of 61d nails and a quick disco and I'm set to frame the walls a little faster ;)

I hope to at least get the walls done and the loft started but am hopeful the nailer will improve speed and we can start the roof before having to leave (work calls again) Tuesday evening.

Then the next weekend will see us back finishing the roof.  I'll pick up a kerosene heater to help warm it up and dry it out until the stove can be installed :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 06, 2009, 08:15:26 PM
 d*
Oops

OK just realized something I need help with.  I framed my first portion of the north wall (10 feet) and then stopped.  My next section is 14 feet and I intended to put the kitchen window in this piece.  However I need to put it RIGHT THERE.  In other words I had planned the kitchen window right in the joint without realizing it.

I can of course, move it into the 14 foot section but would like to frame it RIGHT at the end stud that will nail to the 10 foot wall (joining the two together).

So my question is:  is this an issue?  The top plate will cross both of course and I'll have headers in place (load bearing wall) plus cripples and will overlap the joint by at least 2 feet with sheathing.

Will this be ok?
Thanks
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: PA-Builder on November 07, 2009, 03:56:27 PM
Doesn't sound like a problem to me.

If you want, you could scab a piece of 2x6 below the lower plate to give it a little more strength !
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 10, 2009, 08:17:37 PM
So tired!  Just got in (4 1/2 drive back) and we managed to get the walls done (more on that later) and mostly sheeted.  We braced the walls (not enough I'm sure) and framed the bathroom in and then had to toss the tarp over and leave.

It's dark by 5PM so can't really work well past 4ish (cleanup takes time) and the boys aren't too willing to start when the sun comes up (snicker) and honestly, at 44 I'm finding it tougher to work in below freezing weather myself!  But we did get started today around 10AM and worked until 3PM then had to leave.

Yesterday was about noon to 3PM becuase the delivery was a little late (and I had to go find him becuase he can't follow directions) and Saturday was driving there while Sunday we framed a couple wall sections etc...it was a busy weekend and I'll post pics soon.

One note:  clamps are great for drawing wall sections together but NEVER frame the dang band joist before doing this (DOH!).

The long walls are plumb (in and out) but one is off square :(  I'm fretting over that a bit but hoping the 6" walls on such a small cabin may work in my favor (stronger).  Guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 12, 2009, 11:23:32 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Northwall_gap.jpg&hash=42c8b3a8dedd76a873dc5904e0c37822)
 d*

The Northwall Gap.

So we've been working hard and trying to build our cabin piecemeal (clearly not the way to go) and ran across a couple of issues:

1.  Being in a hurry hurts -- stop it -- but wait it might snow -- I'm going crazy here.

2.  If you frame a wall with a Band Joist in it's really hard to square the damn wall.  Don't do it without squaring the wall first.

I've thought about cutting the Band Joist out to fix the walls on the North side of the cabin since I can't get them plumb.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 12, 2009, 11:29:29 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin11-10-09018.jpg&hash=928de88359d691b3a6cc0d2b85207277)

OK the South wall we actually built right I think except there was a gap between the two sections.  We were, however, able to tighten it flush with clamps and the result was a plumb wall in all directions :)  We felt good about it.

So, while I can keep the North wall plumb I cannot keep it square without cutting out the band joist -- which I fear might ruin the 2x10.

One thing I did notice was I goofed on the door and framed it at 30 1/2" -- oops  d* ??? I realized I'd marked the trimmer/cripple on the wrong side -- doh! -- and the king on the other side of it...so I will go back, cut that out and re-frame the door (easy enough).

One thing however, that I also realized was the 4 foot window under the 6 foot loft means you don't have a band joist nailed to a king stud at the 5-6 foot mark.  The window header is in there and some jack studs/cripples.  My solution?  I'm thinking of putting in a 2x8 header in the same location and then some small blocks (cripples) between the band joist and the header so the weight is transferred to the trimmer studs on either side of the window.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 12, 2009, 11:34:45 AM
Load bearing walls and cantilevers:

OK, so I'm reading (read and you will succeed -- I was told) and I find a statement in a framing book that reads:  Floor joists for load bearing walls should not be framed more then 1/2" less then the width of the joist past the cantilever to prevent sheering of the floor when used as a load bearing wall.

Huh?

The little house plans call for a 2 foot overhang past the cantilever which is clearly a lot more then the 5 1/2" of floor joist when making a 2x6 floor and even twice what a 2x12's thickness is.

Is this becuase of the bracing?  Is what I read crazy?  Does it only apply to more then one floor?  Many questions -- and worries.

Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 12, 2009, 12:02:46 PM
Last thing first   ::)

Don't worry about the floor joists overhanging the beams more than what the books say. Your joists are all one piece and are supporting a relatively low load compared to wider and taller structures. Something like that anyways.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 12, 2009, 12:12:13 PM
OK, I got it.  :-\   I was confused by a difference in terminology. "Band Joist"

I believe you are referring to those 2xsomethings that are notched into the wall studs at or above window header height.  :)   I think of them as Ledger Boards. A Band Joist to me is one of those 2xthings that run around the perimeter of the Floor Joists, also called a Rim Joist. There are probably other names or them in different parts of the country/world.

Yes it would have been easier to frame and square up the walls before those pieces were nailed in.

So, did I interpret things correctly or am I all wet?  ???

One more question. Is that Ledger Board supposed to stop there or go further. I think it is suposed to stop there at the window edge.  ???

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 12, 2009, 12:25:28 PM
So it seems you can get that north wall plumb, not leaning into or out of the cabin, but it is not square, as in a 4x8 sheet overhangs or underhangs some o the wall stud when you try to line things up.

I bet those Ledgers are nailed in real good with the air nailer.  ;D  The best solution may be to give them a hard whack with a big hammer to loosen them a little. Use a block of scrap wood to try to keep from damaging the Ledger. Then use a metal cutting blade in a reciprocating saw to cut the nails between the Ledger and the wall stud. Remove the Ledger, square the wall, apply exterior sheathing and then re-install the Ledger.

I've done that a few times. A nice long metal cutting blade should be able to slip in there.

AT least that's the way I see it. Then you should be able to have everything pretty much squared away, plumb and level too. 



You're not the first owner-builder who's messed up on a door either.

I hope that all helps a little.

G/L on the weather too. Here the weather guy is saying I might get snowed on Saturday up at the cabin. Or maybe not. He doesn't really know.  ???  I always start wondering when (if?) it will stop snowing when I get caught in a snow up there in the mountains.


Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 12, 2009, 12:31:26 PM
OK, I got it.  :-\   I was confused by a difference in terminology. "Band Joist"

I believe you are referring to those 2xsomethings that are notched into the wall studs at or above window header height.  :)   I think of them as Ledger Boards. A Band Joist to me is one of those 2xthings that run around the perimeter of the Floor Joists, also called a Rim Joist. There are probably other names or them in different parts of the country/world.

Yes it would have been easier to frame and square up the walls before those pieces were nailed in.

So, did I interpret things correctly or am I all wet?  ???

One more question. Is that Ledger Board supposed to stop there or go further. I think it is supposed to stop there at the window edge.  ???



Somewhere I got the idea they were band joists (maybe from JR?) -- but yes the 2x10 notched into the walls.  It stops at 10' so there is an overhang past the last stud.  I could put a stud in there though to support the end but I thought there was so much support they way it's notched in that it probably doesn't need it.  ???

There are two in the walls -- one on the west end that is 6 feet long (not installed yet) and one on the east end that is 10 feet long.  The ten footer is well supported by 6 or 8 studs it's notched into but the 6 footer is notched into the first 3 studs and then goes out over the window.  One change I could make I suppose is to make the band joist go 7 or 8 feet so it gets to the next kind stud -- thereby having support all the way out.

While we are on the subject can anyone advise me on making the gang way between the two lofts?  My thought was to put in two doubled up 2x8's in double joist hangers and then hanging 2x6's between them for a 36" gang way between the two lofts.  I figured the two 2x8's nailed together would make strong enough beams to both support the loft and the gang way.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 12, 2009, 12:36:15 PM
So it seems you can get that north wall plumb, not leaning into or out of the cabin, but it is not square, as in a 4x8 sheet overhangs or underhangs some o the wall stud when you try to line things up.

I bet those Ledgers are nailed in real good with the air nailer.  ;D  The best solution may be to give them a hard whack with a big hammer to loosen them a little. Use a block of scrap wood to try to keep from damaging the Ledger. Then use a metal cutting blade in a reciprocating saw to cut the nails between the Ledger and the wall stud. Remove the Ledger, square the wall, apply exterior sheathing and then re-install the Ledger.

I've done that a few times. A nice long metal cutting blade should be able to slip in there.

AT least that's the way I see it. Then you should be able to have everything pretty much squared away, plumb and level too. 



You're not the first owner-builder who's messed up on a door either.

I hope that all helps a little.

G/L on the weather too. Here the weather guy is saying I might get snowed on Saturday up at the cabin. Or maybe not. He doesn't really know.  ???  I always start wondering when (if?) it will stop snowing when I get caught in a snow up there in the mountains.




Hmmmm that's kinda what I was thinking -- except I was so worried about the weather that I sheeted the wall anyway.  It's off square but you are correct, it's plumb (to inside/outside).

One sheet didn't line up with the studs -- only one sheet right under the ledger/band joist/whatever it's called.

So, pull the sheeting (it can be done) fix the wall and move on or leave it alone becuase it isn't big enough to matter -- after all it's a cabin....hmmm...I'm not so sure and am hopeful my choice now will be the right one as I don't want a roof landing on my head in the middle of the night! ha!

Thanks for the note on the overhang too!  I was thinking that it didn't matter that much becuase there really isn't a lot of weight there when compared to say a real house :P ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 13, 2009, 08:19:54 AM
At what point do you say "screw it" and leave the wall out of square?  And at what point do you say "heck no" and pull it apart and fix it?

The walls are 24 feet long and will carry a 2x6 framed roof.  Only one sheet out of 6 was out of square so other then ONE SHEET of OSB Sheeting they are all nicely lined up on the studs.  That one sheet was out by about 3/4" over 8 feet.  This tells me that stud was severely out of whack but the rest were damn close.

So, if that one sheet is enough to pull things apart I will becuase I don't want my cabin breaking on me, but if it's just me worrying too much then I'll stop it and move on!

I can get about 4-5 hours of work in on Saturday and Sunday and they are calling for snow!  So, if I can use that time to finish the sheeting, put felt down on the walls, plastic the windows real well and begin roof framing then I'd be 100% happier!

Thougths?  I'm checking every minute incase some of you smarter/more experienced folks will respond (gets down and begs)... d* :-\ :-\ ???
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: PA-Builder on November 13, 2009, 08:45:42 AM
If I understand your situation correctly, you are saying that the first five sheets (20') all hit evenly (in the middle) of your studs, but now the last panel is off center by 3/4".  

Are the 4' ends of the first five sheets in a perfectly straight line, with corners meeting at same point ?  If they are, then it sounds like your wall is pretty square.

I would do two diagonal measurements (from opposite corners) to see if the 24' wall is square.  

It sounds like you may only have one stud that is "out of whack",  and the entire wall section is OK.  If that is the case you could take the time to rip the stud out, and probably damage your OSB, OR why not just put another stud along side the existing "out of whack" stud so that your panel can then be securely fastened to both studs.  Either way, this doesn't sound like something that is going to "break" your cabin.  I'd be more concerned with making sure that your entire wall section, window openings, and door openings are perfectly square.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 13, 2009, 10:46:02 AM

Only one sheet out of 6 was out of square so other then ONE SHEET of OSB Sheeting they are all nicely lined up on the studs. 

I thought the entire framed wall was out of whack, that it was more like a parallelogram than a rectangle. If it's that close you could likely leave it. You may be the only one to notice. Of course, you may also be reminded of it every time you go to do something in that corner.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 13, 2009, 03:16:14 PM
Of the 6 sheets the first 4 are lined up nicely with no noticeable difference.  Then the 5th is out of whack and the 6th is fine.

However, when I put a 4 foot level on the studs the first 16 feet is pretty close then the next 4 feet is out (at the join of the two walls.  The last 4 feet isn't perfect either but is close.  So only one sheet of OSB didn't line up on the studs and is out about 3/4".  Both sheets on that stud however are secured (toe nailed in spots to reach the stud cleanly and there are no gaps through the sheets (they touch studs all the way).

The 5th sheet that is out drops in one corner about 1/2" below the 6th sheet -- if I could draw it it would look like the 5th out of 6 sheets is a little cock-eyed.

The weather has gotten foul and I'm expecting at least 4" of snow on the tarp :(  Let's hope I can clean it off and finish the sheeting and top plates and start the loft so that at least I can strengthen the temporary roof!

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 16, 2009, 07:29:52 AM
We arrived to find snow built up on the temp roof/tarp and used brooms to get a lot of it off the night we got to the cabin.  Then the next day we got the ladders out and worked the snow and ice off the roof.

We then tore the back wall apart (it started with removing the band joist/ledger and then we took all the OSB sheeting off too) and hooked the wall up to the winch on my jeep.  A little pull and the wall squared up!  We put the level (4 foot) on pretty much every joist in every direction and son-of-a-gun the wall was plumb and square :) :)  [cool]

I then rolled the 2x10 ledger/band joist over (the other side was a little ugly from pulling the 16d nails out) and after some creative notching got it level and installed once again.

A comment here:  The 2x10 is resting on 5 or 6 studs and is 10 feet long.  I hadn't thought it would need support at the end of the ledger but others suggested it might.  So a question for the framers/engineers/generally smart guys out there is:  Do you think I need to slot a stud in there to support the end?  I will be putting a double 2x8 there and installing a gang way to the other loft.

The other ledger is installed (I need to look that word up *snicker*) and it too does not reach the next stud.  However, I didn't feel it was needed since it was supported by so many others.

I'll be installing 2x8x13ish loft joists between these ledgers (I think the plans call for 24" centers but I have a question there that I need to go back to older posts on).

The 6 foot loft on the west end -- and here I am thinking "why did I cut that ledger at 6  feet when a little longer would tie it into the stud that's RIGHT there.  I didn't fully nail it off so it would be easily removed if needed.

And this one!!!  d* ??? I thought maybe installing a doubled up 2x6 header with a shim to support the end over the wall might work but the more I thought about it the more I thought a 7 foot 2x10 ledger would be supported by the stud on the end -- so why not?

I don't think I'll remove the 2nd header unless there is a good reason to do so but you can see the struggle going on here.

My thought?  Get 2 2x10x8's and cut them to fit to the studs on the end and nail them down there just to be safe.  Then build the 6 foot loft as planned with doubled 2x8 joists on the end to hang the gang way on. (gang way I'm thinking 2x6 joists since the span is only 8 feet -- thoughts on that?).

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 16, 2009, 07:36:38 AM
At least we finally got the top plates on and sheeted the walls fully :)  And since I read that it didn't which side of the sheeting faced out and that I could run the sheets sideways (8 foot length down) along the tops of the walls I did just that!

We also got the temp roof installed a little better this time by putting up 5 2x8x14's and putting blocks between them to hold them upright and then pulling the tarp as tight as we could get it over them.

The tarp is taking a beating but it's holding up and I think I can get the roof framed in the next trip or too -- if I can get one of my framing buddies to help that is! DOH!
hehe

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-11-14-09055.jpg&hash=1a33e895bc4a313b41a8d7468b7124f4)
And finally back on the road, tired and heading home -- the snow was only up above about 2500 feet I think.  Becuase it wasn't very far from there that it all cleared up and the drive home was uneventful :)

Now, next trip in two weeks after some turkey!  Wish us luck!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 16, 2009, 06:58:14 PM
Looks like a superhighway compared to my snow covered dirt    ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 17, 2009, 11:50:33 AM
I'm sure!  Did you see my questions on page 7?  I'm curious what you think and am hopeful I can address on my next trip.

We did pull that wall apart too and now the level is happy :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 17, 2009, 02:17:11 PM
No, I missed the end of page 7.


Well, first I'll say I like to see ends of things supported. But... here's a thought that might be worth investigating. (This is a very quick & dirty unscaled sketch. Please do not try to duplicate the wavy lines.  ;) )

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi133.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq75%2Fdjmillerbucket%2Fconstruction%2Femcvay1.jpg&hash=c80dc4fcf5d9164e0cfadda485e18eff)

 ??? ???

I like the idea of replacing those 7 footers with 8 footers.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 17, 2009, 08:12:08 PM
Thanks Don.

Not sure I understand the catwalk?  I was planning on doubled joists at each end with a span of 8 feet for the catwalk.

Are you saying to put 2x joists partway down the catwalk to the wall supported on the ledger??
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 17, 2009, 08:55:01 PM
What I'm wondering about is this....

On the one end where you have 7' ledgers at present, go ahead and replace those with 8'. Install double joists across at the end of those ledgers.


At the other end of the cabin leave the ledgers as they are.
Double up the last joist you have already in place.
Run the catwalk between those doubled joists.

Fill in the space where the ledger ends do not connect to the studs with short joists from the ledger to the catwalk joist(s).

I thought of this because it would place load from the catwalk joists on a joist that is more fully supported by the ledger, than if the catwalk was connected to a joist at the end of the ledger (unsupported end). Not being a licensed engineer I can't say it's any better than just leaving the ledger ends unsupported and carrying the weight there.

I hope you can see what I mean.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 18, 2009, 07:40:04 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2Fwall.jpg&hash=ce6a61f3a6e7d2a19c018827378c5679)

OK here goes :)


You can see the ledger doesn't reach the stud but is supported by 7 studs along the span of 10'.  The slight distance from the last stud to the end of the ledger is about 4".  From a structural standpoint I do not think this is an issue even with doubled 2x8's right there at the end becuase of the 7 studs on the rest of the span and the floor pressing against the studs holding the loft.  Just as the last stud in the corner doesn't really do much.  It's like a header that has nothing in the middle but a stud at the ends to hold the weight -- I think the principle is the same -- no?

Now this one comes a little closer but I think it fine also:


It's actually held by a little more (I think 8 studs) but again at the end of the 10' span there is no stud.  I don't think it's an issue really but wondered what others thought becuase I'm not above putting in one more stud if a doubled 2x8 with a catwalk hanging on it might warrant such a measure.

But this 6 foot ledger worries me:


The ledger spans almost across the 4 foot window under it but not all the way and with only 3 studs carrying the weight I decided to put in another header (2x6 doubled) to help carry the load -- then realized that probably was in adequate (despite the 2x12 header behind it) and wondered if I just got a longer ledger (say 7 feet) and rant it to the stud and nailed it into that then at least it would be carried by the header and the king stud on the end.

Thoughts?

Finally, this one I think is ok because it is carried on 4 studs over the 6 foot span -- but making it longer couldn't hurt right?

Then, of course, doubling the 2x8's and putting the catwalk on them shouldn't be an issue right?

Also, for the catwalk I was thinking 2x6 DF#2's becuase it's only 8 feet of span.  I could frame those on 16centers and make it 4 feet wide.

Another oops of mine by the way was to decide to go to 16" centers on the loft joists and then forget and plan for 24" centers -- which is a little too weak for 2x8's.  SO I've had to go back and reconsider that.

Also, note in the drawing above that I don't show the 2x8's and where they are.  In the pictures you see only one on the 10' span and it's at 8' -- it was put there as a wall tie actually.  Since it will remain there for the loft floor (8 feet is on 16"c) and eventually there will be another at 9'4" and a double at 10' as well as back along the span.

I think it will be strong enough that way :)

Just need to think about those ledgers a bit more.
Thanks
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 20, 2009, 11:05:31 AM
Bumpity Bump --

Don?  Any others?  Just wondering if you can comment as I plan to buy the new 2x10's tomorrow to frame the small loft and the rest of the loft and roof material (I was a bit short) and will be driving up to do some loft work tomorrow.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 20, 2009, 11:54:11 AM
later   :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 20, 2009, 04:42:17 PM

But this 6 foot ledger worries me:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-11-14-09041.jpg&hash=217e7ce6daad998af306a693e7b27b2f)

The ledger spans almost across the 4 foot window under it but not all the way and with only 3 studs


As this one sits you are depending almost totally on the nails securing it to the two studs above the window. If that 2x was longer and nicely notched into that stud to the left o the window it would be stronger and much better.


Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Jens on November 21, 2009, 03:52:43 PM
seems to me like the weight of the ledger is going to be supported by the jack stud in either case.  Judging by the top of the ladder, the window is about 2.5' wide?  I am no engineer, but I think that your header will be up to the job at hand.  Ledger is notched into the studs and sitting on osp shim on top of header, right?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 21, 2009, 08:17:12 PM
seems to me like the weight of the ledger is going to be supported by the jack stud in either case.  Judging by the top of the ladder, the window is about 2.5' wide?  I am no engineer, but I think that your header will be up to the job at hand.  Ledger is notched into the studs and sitting on osp shim on top of header, right?

The window on this side is 4 feet wide so I added an additional header (double 2x6) with the OSB shim to help carry the load.  I figured the weight of the wall was supported by the 2x12 header and this might work but after some thought and Don's posts I've decided to yank that one out and put in a 2x10x8 through the next king stud (notched in of course).  That way I can be sure it will take the weight :)  I also bought another 2x10x8 for the other side to notch it one more stud also.

My generator quit today so we couldn't get the loft finished.  Instead we dropped off another $300 of lumber, pushed all the water off the tarp and tightened it a little, secured the site and headed home.

I'll service the gen before Thanksgiving weekend and we'll go back with an all hands crew (my two sons and soon to be son-in-law) to finish the loft and frame and sheet the roof.

I've decided to bring up some big lights too since our biggest issue is the lack of light.  If we start at 9am (which means below freezing) we can work to at least 3 without lights.  By 3:30 we had better be cleaning up though!  It was getting dark by 5PM last weekend so I'm guessing full dark will be around 4:30 next weekend -- makes for a short day but I do have 3 big halogen work lights and the gen should run those fine. 

That and a big fire and heat in the tent trailer and I think we'll do fine :)

By the way, for those interested I'm running very close to my goal of framing and sheeting the structure for $3000 or less.  I'm actually at $3300 right now but have spent more on tools, nails and a ladder which wasn't accounted for.

Still I'm happy with that!

We've gotten the stove and still need windows and a door, the roof (tin) as well as siding, wiring, plumbing, bath, kitchen and railings plus a lot of other things...my hope however is to complete the whole thing for around $10k or less :)  Wish me luck!

Now...to drum up another $7k...hmmmmm

hehe
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 21, 2009, 08:43:04 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-11-21-09024.jpg&hash=89029362caa5bdd5277d9a3d06248c55)
Some critters were running around chasing the deer off it seems ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 21, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin-11-21-09008.jpg&hash=6606ac0d2c8a41bc1b5690a8593f56f8)
Spike buck was coming around...this is the 2nd or 3rd buck the camera has seen.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 23, 2009, 10:05:21 AM
Heading off this weekend (after eating loads of Turkey) to try to get this roof on!  With luck we can at least get things sorted well enough to withstand a foot of snow (which is coming I fear).

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 27, 2009, 09:20:57 AM
20 degrees at night -- so the Tent Trailer will be a little on the cool side at night (we can take it) -- but mostly clear by the looks of it so it's a go!

We're off with extra lights and another body to try to get the loft done and the roof framed and at least partly sheeted!

With me luck!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 27, 2009, 10:05:36 AM
Stay warm   :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2009, 07:57:12 AM
Friday night we framed the big loft -- the big halogen lights made a HUGE difference!  It's so dark there in the winter that with these lights we finally did work after 5pm :)  In fact we worked until 9:30pm on Friday (no sales for us).

This picture was from the ground -- yes the blocking in the floor is crooked *snicker*.  I was in a hurry (you never should be) and didn't think to snap a line until I realized we were crooked -- hehe.,..ahhh well, builds character!
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Nov_29030.jpg&hash=a484f97468366dea01c3120b33df5fde)
The 'big loft'

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Nov_29032.jpg&hash=d8eeef21b9e414f669cea0028ba62b27)
Looking down from the loft

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2009, 08:04:57 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Nov_29044.jpg&hash=b398d6b358f9a04f3bfd08dab7cd9c1c)
Finally started framing the roof.  I'd goofed on the first set of rafters and cut the birdsmouth above the line it was supposed to be below (DOH!)  d* d* ??? but eventually got it sorted and began getting the job done.

One note:  I did have to adjust the beam height a little as well in order to get 1" of space above it.  Then decided 1 1/4" was even better...(oh wait, that's what it ended up at after fixing the birdsmouth and I decided to leave it *chuckle*)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Nov_29046.jpg&hash=5be5b8bd21084093439716174dfaea4e)
It's 5PM Sunday and you smashed your left thumb full force with a 22 ounce framing hammer (on the side of the thumb), your knuckle is bleeding and the dust is making your eyes tear up...what more could you want in life???

We worked late Saturday (after a 2 1/2 hour run to Home Depot -it takes that long to get there and back) and then got a very early start Sunday but it just wasn't enough to get the roof framed and partially sheeted :(  We had to stop 2 rafter sets shy of the main roof framing, no lookouts and still needing collar ties, blocking and more!  Ahhhhhhhhh  :P d*

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Nov_29054.jpg&hash=005abce8be2e36761d07adff90a2abe7)
Put on the tarp and used some 1x4's to make temporary collar ties and tied everything down -- and began praying that the heavens wouldn't open up for a couple more weeks!!!!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Nov_29055.jpg&hash=015ee82e303444add2146ee015000f01)
Blood, sweat, tears and a smashed knuckle but we're starting to feel like the end is near (for this year anyway)!  All we need to do is finish the outer shell well enough to make it a few months without much work -- here's hoping!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 30, 2009, 10:30:41 AM

Finally started framing the roof.  I'd goofed on the first set of rafters and cut the birdsmouth above the line it was supposed to be below

That's why we cut a test pair and see how they work.  ;)  I had to make one set of adjustments on mine too.

We'll all cross our fingers and say a prayer for you regarding the weather/snow. I betcha it was nice to see those rafters up at last.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2009, 10:49:27 AM

Finally started framing the roof.  I'd goofed on the first set of rafters and cut the birdsmouth above the line it was supposed to be below

That's why we cut a test pair and see how they work.  ;)  I had to make one set of adjustments on mine too.

We'll all cross our fingers and say a prayer for you regarding the weather/snow. I betcha it was nice to see those rafters up at last.

You bet!

The funny thing is that I finally took John's advice (I'm a little slow at times) and laid them out on the floor of the cabin...that is what showed me the mistake!

It felt so great to get the rafters up!  But I also need to thank you and others :)

For one:  I fixed the small loft ledgers to your recommendations :)  Thanks!  It felt a lot better doing that and then proceeding.

For two:  the loft floor feels very strong!  With 4 of us up there (I'm 260lbs, Josh is 210 and Kurt and James make another 320lbs or so) it didn't move at all!  A couple creeks in the middle when I walk through so there is a little movement but overall very sturdy :)  I'm very happy!

I'm also confident the 2x6 catwalk will be fine too :)  it's a 7 foot span and I made a temp one and it's plenty strong (it occurred to me the floor was made with 2x6" over a 9 foot span so DUH it will be fine at 7 feet!

There is a lot more I'm sure (ridge beam talk, ties, and more)...but all in all we're so stinking close!

The toughest part will be sheeting and felting the roof but we can do it and we're a weekend away from that stage!!!!!

I am so stoked :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2009, 02:12:36 PM
One question:

When putting on the fascia 2x6 should it be installed 1/2"-3/4" below the rafter top so the sheeting covers it?  Can't the sheeting be overhung that far (about 1 1/2") and the fascia be installed later?  Like in the spring.

Thanks
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 30, 2009, 02:22:49 PM
Considering your time crunch I'd say your priority would be getting the roof sheathing and the building paper on before worrying about the fascia. As long as your overhang the sheathing enough you could apply the fascia later. Having the fascia in place before doing the roofing though, gives a better edge to nail the drip edge and  building paper/wrap to.

I will admit to being in a time crunch last year too and I left the fascia until this spring, months after the roofing was completed.  :-[
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2009, 02:26:50 PM
Considering your time crunch I'd say your priority would be getting the roof sheathing and the building paper on before worrying about the fascia. As long as your overhang the sheathing enough you could apply the fascia later. Having the fascia in place before doing the roofing though, gives a better edge to nail the drip edge and  building paper/wrap to.

I will admit to being in a time crunch last year too and I left the fascia until this spring, months after the roofing was completed.  :-[

Thanks Don,

That is what I was thinking.  So THANKS!  :)  I'll ignore the fascia and get the sheeting on as soon as I finished the rafters, lookouts and the sheeting and collar ties and and and and....geez I need more time!

And a new Thumb!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2009, 03:20:16 PM
Hurricane ties:  one thing I decided to do on my end rafters (and maybe won't really help in any way but I thought it might) was to put the hurricane ties on the wall top and slide them into the rafter since I could not install any other way (normally you mount them on the wall and the tabs that the rafter fits in extend up into the rafter).  This allowed you to use joist nails to secure the rafter into the hurricane tie AFTER it's been toe nailed in place.  Of course since you used 10d or 16d nails to toe nail the rafter in this is probably not needed anyway but with the birdsmouth cut in I couldn't see any way to use the ties becuase they would have to be installed on the sheeting in places where there is no stud (24" centers on the rafters and 16" centers on the walls) and the birdsmouth makes the rafter fit lower on the walls (the ties are probably meant for trusses)...but anyway I did get one 10d joist nail into each side in addition to the toe nailing and the tie is secured to the top of the wall.  If nothing else it will provide some sideload protection -- and the area I'm in doesn't get much wind so I doubt it would matter.

Anyway that's something I have been trying but only on the outside rafters so far.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 01, 2009, 11:51:23 AM
Just ran out and checked my old Jeep battery (got a new one) and after running the 12v pump on our well for about two hours and then sitting in cold weather for a couple days it's still at 12.7vdc.  :)  [cool]

I'm thinking that while it was starting to lose cranking amps and didn't like starting the jeep as easily anymore (and that's partly why I replaced it -- really I needed a stronger battery becuase of the winch and the need to power a trailer from time to time -- or the camper etc which this battery didn't do well and died in one night) it will power the well for several hours I'm sure.  I need to check the draw so I will bring my amp clamp this next trip as well as my multimeter.

Once I know what the draw is on my well and on the camper (something else I've wanted to check) and the tent trailer with lights on and heater running I should have a very good idea of the kind of power I need and recharging power I'll need :)

Having that I can start seriously looking at solar panels when I'm not up there trying to get the roof done! ( d*)

But I'm stoked for now :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 01, 2009, 12:13:47 PM
I'm thinking of trying to get back this weekend to try to get the last rafters done and maybe the lookouts.  Then we could get a row of sheeting up and felt it :)  ANd put plastic on the gabled ends and felt the walls....it's somethign to consider anyway :)

Maybe do a window or two and a door while I'm at it -- oh wait, I said ONE WEEKEND right?  DOH!

I need to remember to get a couple pounds of joist nails, some 2x6 joist hangers, more lumber (did I mention to plan for more?  Probably not and since I don't listen to my own advice much less others I'll mention it again here just in case I do actually listen at some point -- get more)....

We bought a Kerosene heater last trip (smart move) since it's been ini the 20's a lot when there and it helps keep the cabin a little warmer (under the loft anyway) and at least makes you think it's not freezing :)

So, if I can just get back and do some sheeting and felting (without one thumb) we might yet survive the winter :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 01, 2009, 12:24:30 PM

Having that I can start seriously looking at solar panels when I'm not up there trying to get the roof done! ( d*)


You have the whole winter to plan and think and re-plan. Don't make any sudden moves.  ;D  Starting a new topic, if you want, so all your thoughts, questions and answers can be easily referenced might be an idea.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 01, 2009, 01:06:38 PM

Having that I can start seriously looking at solar panels when I'm not up there trying to get the roof done! ( d*)


You have the whole winter to plan and think and re-plan. Don't make any sudden moves.  ;D  Starting a new topic, if you want, so all your thoughts, questions and answers can be easily referenced might be an idea.

My main focus is the roof and making things dry before it's too late...then while I've got time I want to get set up so I can recharge the batteries without a generator. 

I'm just like that though -- 100 miles an hour.....darn Marines ;)  d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 02, 2009, 10:31:05 AM
Lots going on but on a side note I've decided to insulate my tent trailer on the next trip.  The temps are hitting in the teens at night and are threatoning to get much cooler.  So in order to have a place to get warm and to stay warm at night and to assist in the heating of the place and reduction of propane required I've decided to pick up some 1" foam insulation for the pullouts (I can install the insulation using velcro under the floor between the ribs and probably hold it in with some bungies as well), some flexible insulation (Astro Foil maybe) in the windows (unzip the windows, install the foil insulation and zip the windows back up) and then install some 1" under the floor as well.

I also though about trying to find a farmer willing to sell some bails of hay nearby becuase I could take those and stack under the pull outs too and around the main body to add some insulation that way.

This leaves the tent pup-ups and the roof.  I figure the roof can be done with 1" foam held on with bungies but the pop-ups might be a bit tricky.  I'm thinking perhaps just a tarp over those held down by rocks on the roof and bungies.

The idea is to reduce heating needs and keep things a little warmer throughout the cold nights.  If the heat aint running she can get cold enough to freeze the water in the back of the drip coffee pop in a couple hours!

Anyone else had to do something like this?
Erik
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCamping_FathersDay002.jpg&hash=cdc42057a62b6ce8305e6b5e82420f1e)
Evo1 trailer
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: csiebert on December 02, 2009, 12:15:16 PM
If you stack up hay bails, put rock salt between layers.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SouthernTier on December 02, 2009, 01:03:43 PM
One second on that. 2x6 rafters aren't deep enough for a ventilation space (1" recommended I think) and the R19, without furring out the 2x6 or some other plan.  ???

BTW, I really don't understand why all the stores carry R19 and sell it to folks like ourselves who have built with 2x6 studs. A 2x6 = 5 1/2 inches, right? The R19 that I see is all rated to be 6 1/4 inches thick.  When compressed into a 5 1/2 inch space it becomes R18.

From Owens-Corning

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi133.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq75%2Fdjmillerbucket%2Foddsnends%2Fcompressedfibreglass.jpg&hash=a12c80ecb6d8df0392bf5fecd220cdb3)

The R21 which would be ideal is available locally here, but only from insulation installers who will only sell it with installation (but wanted a fortune to go up to the mountains) , or in minimum quantities that are too large for a simple cabin like mine.  d*


Here in NY State, the code says my cathedral ceiling would have to be R-49 (http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/energycode/Forms_code/NYS%20ECCC%20Simplified%20Prescriptive%20Provisions.pdf) !  I hope they don't make me do that once I start building.  But still, I figure I'll have to go to 2x12 rafters for the <11-foot span ceilings even though 2x10's would do, just to be able to use that R-38C (with "C" standing for Cathedral, providing the venting space).  But of course, can't find R-38C anywhere around here anyway!

Maybe I can find a local builder who buys in bulk and get him to seel me some or something like that.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 02, 2009, 01:46:02 PM
LittleValley, I had a look at that document. It says ceiling. Frequently cathedral ceilings receive a reduced requirement.

For example when I run ResCheck on our cabin it comes out at 5.5% better than the requirements when checked with a conventional flat ceiling, but 7.1% better when run with a cathedral ceiling with same R-value.

You might be able to use ResCheck energy code compliance software in the design. It's pretty cool. Here in NM they want the plan specs to be run through ResCheck and submitted with the pass/fail document it can produce. That can speed up the approval process. If your inspection department uses ResCheck it is possible to do some horse trading with different values here and there to achieve a pass.

There is a link to ResCheck here (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6715.0).
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SouthernTier on December 02, 2009, 02:10:15 PM
Thanks Don.  I was thinking about checking out ResCheck.  I think I'll also run into the problem with loss through the windows.  I'd like a lot of windows (if I just wanted to look at the inside of a cabin, I could build it in my backyard rather than an hour away out in the country  :) ) and I understand that is really going to cut down the rescheck score, even with low-U glass.

But I won't know until I try.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 02, 2009, 02:14:34 PM
When I ran it I ended up buying better windows than we originally wanted to buy ($$cost), but it allowed us to use a 6x4 ft and a 5x4 ft for the views.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 02, 2009, 02:18:42 PM
I've been thinking about my cathedral ceiling and insualtion and wondering what I need to do?  I've got 2x6 rafters but to provide the 1" gap for venting I'd need the insulation to be 4 1/2" this and I can't find that.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Beavers on December 02, 2009, 02:23:38 PM
Just an idea for insulating you camper...insulated concrete blankets.  

They are waterproof and as thick as R 7 1/2 at this website.
http://cover-tech.com/curingblankets.htm

Only 59 cents a square foot for the R7.5 stuff.  Seems like it would be pretty easy to wrap the tent ends of the camper with them.  

Looks like you could even get custom cut ones for a couple of more cents per square foot.  [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 02, 2009, 02:46:06 PM
camo coloring would be nice.    ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: poppy on December 02, 2009, 04:44:23 PM
On your tent insulation, you will gain some R value if the foam board is foil faced and facing in.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 03, 2009, 07:10:38 AM
On your tent insulation, you will gain some R value if the foam board is foil faced and facing in.
That's what I was thinking too.  Reflect the heat back into the trailer.

I'm thinking that insulating under the floor of the main box (lots of room there I think) as well as under the pull out floors and then in the tent windows and perhaps wrapping the entire tent sections as well as on the roof all should help.

The hay idea was one I had becuase I know hay is a good insulator and I figured it might help even just stacked around or under the unit.

Temps are now in the teens at night her at 600 feet so I'm sure up at the cabin (3100 feet) it will be even colder!  Tent trailering in that cold can be tough.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 04, 2009, 11:28:48 AM
Quote
   
Saturday
Mostly cloudy. Highs in the lower 30s. Northeast wind 5 to 15 mph in the afternoon.
» ZIP Code Detail
nt_snow    
Saturday Night
Mostly cloudy with light snow showers likely. Lows 12 to 16. East wind 15 to 25 mph. Chance of precipitation 50 percent.
partlysunny    
Sunday
Partly sunny. Colder. Highs 18 to 23. Northeast wind 10 to 20 mph. Wind chill readings 7 below to 6 above zero.

Seems like this weekend will be chilly!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 04, 2009, 11:31:40 AM
That's still balmy.   ;D  Last night the remote in the Jemez mountains dropped to -4 (7 AM). 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 04, 2009, 11:44:32 AM
That's still balmy.   ;D  Last night the remote in the Jemez mountains dropped to -4 (7 AM). 

Yes but you're not staying in a tent trailer ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 04, 2009, 02:10:33 PM
... and for that I am thankful.   G/L
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: NM_Shooter on December 04, 2009, 02:45:43 PM
I'd be tempted to insulate the shed and stay in there.  

I had an idea a long time ago.. back when we camped in a pop up.

My idea was to make a radiant heat platform for under the mattresses.  I thought that I could get some of that fairly dense sheet foam that also has a radiant barrier on it.  I would install the barrier shiny side down, and on the upper side I would route ¼” channels into it spaced every 4 or 6” or so.  Then rig up a small water pump and propane burner, and make a copper heat exchanger inside a small piece of galvanized stove pipe.  But in order to make it safe, you’d need decent controls, and by the time I figured out what it would all take, I lost interest.  Not sure if I could get much heat through those foam mattresses anyway.  

If it did work, it would use up very little propane and very little electricity.  I also was trying to figure out a way to do it only with convection, but couldn’t get that to work.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 04, 2009, 03:10:44 PM
Got some clamps to clamp insulation to the tents.  Then might also get some 3/4" foam insulation to put under the mattresses and on the roof and under the floor -- maybe on the walls too.

A little elaborate so I may just do the tent canvas with insulation blankets and throw a tarp on top but we've braved sub freezing weather in it before :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 04, 2009, 08:24:41 PM
Heading out tomorrow :)  Got two more RV batteries from a friend so we'll have lots of power and got some insulation and clamps to insulate the tents as well as some foam insulation for the floors and walls :)

I think we might survive the 10 degree weather now :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on December 05, 2009, 06:10:57 AM
"You're not the first owner-builder who's messed up on a door either."

I am a sheepish member of this club myself.  Thank heavens for reciprocating saws!  :)


Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 05, 2009, 06:14:36 AM
Heading out tomorrow :)  Got two more RV batteries from a friend so we'll have lots of power and got some insulation and clamps to insulate the tents as well as some foam insulation for the floors and walls :)

I think we might survive the 10 degree weather now :)

Be sure to take a few photos of the remodel. ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 05, 2009, 06:33:45 AM
"You're not the first owner-builder who's messed up on a door either."

I am a sheepish member of this club myself.  Thank heavens for reciprocating saws!  :)




Gotta love the sawsall! :o

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 05, 2009, 06:35:24 AM
Heading out tomorrow :)  Got two more RV batteries from a friend so we'll have lots of power and got some insulation and clamps to insulate the tents as well as some foam insulation for the floors and walls :)

I think we might survive the 10 degree weather now :)

Be sure to take a few photos of the remodel. ;D

Will do!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 07:06:51 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Dec_6013.jpg&hash=c0aa0bc0273a46b25010944659e364f2)
We put the aerofoil (?) insulation in the side windows and on top of the pop-ups then covered the pop-ups with a tarp which we wrapped around as best we could.  Then we stuffed insulation in other areas (behind sink, on walls of sleeping area etc) and were able to stay warm!

It dropped to 10 degrees overnight but the trailer stayed between 55 and 70...good thing we had lots of propane and 3 batteries to run the heater!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 07:24:41 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Dec_6026.jpg&hash=7b4a1d708def40bb03eb0e504dae41d6)
Got the big tarp on the cabin in time to avoid the snow!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 07:55:56 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Dec_6010.jpg&hash=b0d824dc21ec21c22428b0af93079d1d)
Thanks to a buddy I had 3 deep cycle RV batteries for power :)

The heater used about 0.30 amps (checked using an amp clamp) when kicking on, then dropped to 0.1 amps and finally to 0.04 amps before shutting down.  It would run at 0.04-0.1 amps for as much as an hour at a time.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 08:14:00 AM
When we arrived on site it was 29 degrees and falling.  The snow on the ground was fairly fresh (within 24 hours) and we knew that it could drop to 15 degrees at night or worse.  When leaving home I'd double checked temperature drops and saw that in standard atmospheric conditions the drop per 1000 feet was 3.57 degrees...our cabin site is about 2500 feet higher then our house and 160 miles north of us.  We expected the cold, but weren't sure if the preparations would suffice.

We got started right away and with a dozen trips in the last few months the boys are really into the routine.  They got stuff moved, the trailer popped up, the batteries in place and everything ticked right along.  We were set up by 1PM or shortly there after and the temp had dropped to 24 degrees.

We had picked up a 30 foot by 50 foot tarp on the way up and began to get it on the cabin since the shorter 20x30 tarp wasn't big enough to cover the roof.  This was tough becuase of the ten foot walls!  I had to stand on a ladder and hand up a corner to one son then get over to the other side with the ladder and hand up the other corner and finally I had to move to the middle and push the tarp over the tails of the rafters where it caught up.  Fun fun fun.

Once we had the tarp over the rafter tails I got inside the cabin and up on the loft and we began the dance of the tarp :)  Run to the right, pull hard, jog to the left and yank away...slowly moving the ladder, pulling, pushing, cursing, stuffing, cursing some more and we had the big tarp all the way over the 12x12 pitched roof :)  Then we shifted it until it covered most of each gabled end and was reasonably even on both long sides and finally got down and tied it off in the blowing snow.

Temperature 20 degrees.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 09:48:49 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Dec_6050.jpg&hash=bc5c2cefe6c45c545afa58da304cbd30)
It was COLD!  But we had the clothes and the heaters to handle it -- inside ;)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Dec_6057.jpg&hash=85fefa1ff66ee13b6fb8636231fa9a21)
I took a ride up the hill to look around -- it's cold but beautiful and peaceful :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 09:49:58 AM
Damn that could be a post card :)  Or a Christmas card :)  Didn't realize how nice a pic that was until just now :)

You gotta love owning a peace of heaven huh?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 09:51:57 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Dec_6059.jpg&hash=0ee564ee5b8fcd1589d9663ad13aceb3)
A view South East from the top :)  It's about 8:00AM and cold out but can you blame me?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 09:54:39 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Dec_6075.jpg&hash=e09f7f05dc3aaaea44e179b212c6d234)
We did actually get some work done....can you spot the mistake though?  DOH!

We managed to get the collar ties up (5 of 7) and a rafter pair up (before we ran out of usable 2x6 for rafters) and some blocking in -- and while I'm at it, I think I'm a moron....2x4 blocking stock for 2x6 rafters?  I think I goofed there -- someone tell me what I'm missing.

We got most of this gabled end wall done and then tied the tarp down really well.

We had tried to put in the felt but it was so cold it cracked on is so we stopped that too.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 09:57:19 AM
There's actually more then one mistake there... ???

OK so we managed to get a bigger tarp on and we're hopeful it holds for a few months -- yes a few months.  I will get back to check on the place but with negative temps I don't think it would be too safe to stay over the weekend in a tent trailer.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Dec_6085.jpg&hash=a7e9a1623de77bc3cbcbddb077738143)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 10:01:35 AM
Also put in some cross bracing on the foundation since we've added a big sail up there ;)

My thinking is that I'll need more bracing to make things very stable but for now this should hold until spring (I hope).

Anyone think I'm crazy?  Will it hold in this dry cold climate?

There won't be too much wind since we're down in a bit of a valley with the hill top 100 feet above and lost of trees around to break the wind but it does sometimes get windy (I'm thinking windmill but nothing major)....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 07, 2009, 07:40:24 PM

Anyone think I'm crazy?  Will it hold in this dry cold climate?


With a little luck. I guess there's not much choice though.   :(
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 08:38:37 PM

Anyone think I'm crazy?  Will it hold in this dry cold climate?


With a little luck. I guess there's not much choice though.   :(

Not much, unless the weather warms up a little and we can run back out to do more...but right now it's well below zero.  Last I heard it's about negative ten now....so likely it needs to hold for at least a month.

I expect cold temps and snow to plague us until March now :(
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 09:04:23 PM
Just checked the weather...haha it's a blamy 0 degrees air temp about 1000 feet below our cabin and 9 miles west (warmer).....the nearest pass report (about 1300 feet higher in elevation (so perhaps 4-5 degrees cooler) is showing -7 -- so I'm thinking that we won't be sleeping in the tent trailer any time soon!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on December 08, 2009, 04:26:22 PM
It was 12 here this morning....I'm not sure I know what 0 feels like, this is plenty cold for me.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 14, 2009, 10:07:02 AM
12 is cold -- almost too cold, but 0 and negative temps are just too much unless you have to bear them and are well prepared.

The cold has kept us away for a week now...seems like a month!  I've gotten so used to driving to the property and setting up camp and then getting to work only to drive home Sunday to wait another week that spending a weekend at home is strange.

I did some work, rested up, and wondered if I could slip out next weekend to 'check' on things :)

Build a cabin is addictive!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 21, 2009, 08:11:35 PM
Wow!  Over two weeks since we've been to the cabin and I'm starting to have withdrawals!

I plan to go right after Christmas though :)  I figure it will be just a day trip to go up and check on things, but it will be good to get up one last time before we start the new year.

Then I'll plan a weekend in January (maybe - depends on weather) to go up and tinker and then perhaps another in February but in March I'm going to take a FULL WEEK!!! 

In fact, I'm already excited about taking an entire week to work on the cabin and the wife and I are planning to go look at windows, door and roofing before the end of this year so we can get those purchases out of the way.

Getting all of that in, plus the wood stove will be a huge deal for us (assuming we can do it in March) and perhaps set us up for staying IN the cabin in the spring summer and fall :)

We're excited.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 29, 2009, 09:35:43 AM
OK, this weekend will make 4 weeks without visiting the cabin :(  But we're planning a day trip (9 hours of driving round trip) just to go check on the site and make sure the tarped roof is ok.

I wish I was done the roof and the wood stove was in but I know I'll get there.  In the meantime I'm dying to get back and swing my hammer once again!

Grrrr....life!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on December 29, 2009, 12:39:15 PM
Grrrr....life!

Hang in there.  I know how you feel.  Sometimes when I most want to "put the spurs to it" I ain't got a horse... 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: NM_Shooter on December 29, 2009, 03:34:08 PM
The heater used about 0.30 amps (checked using an amp clamp) when kicking on, then dropped to 0.1 amps and finally to 0.04 amps before shutting down.  It would run at 0.04-0.1 amps for as much as an hour at a time.

This confuses me a bit... does your heater have a blower?  That is a teeny amount of current.  For example a muffin fan like the ones on a desktop draw about .75A.  Are you sure the amp clamp was functioning properly?

If your furnace is only drawing .3 to .1A, you can easily get by on only one 12V battery. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 29, 2009, 05:21:50 PM
The heater used about 0.30 amps (checked using an amp clamp) when kicking on, then dropped to 0.1 amps and finally to 0.04 amps before shutting down.  It would run at 0.04-0.1 amps for as much as an hour at a time.

This confuses me a bit... does your heater have a blower?  That is a teeny amount of current.  For example a muffin fan like the ones on a desktop draw about .75A.  Are you sure the amp clamp was functioning properly?

If your furnace is only drawing .3 to .1A, you can easily get by on only one 12V battery. 

I think the amp clamp I used couldn't read currently the current it was seeing or the cold was effecting it.  I came away confused myself, then did some checking and it can't be right.

So back to square one.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 06, 2010, 08:03:02 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Jan2010003-1.jpg&hash=edb9923ea5078a55ee46958b3fcc103c)
My wife visited the cabin for the first time!  She commented "It's so tall!"

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin_Jan2010001.jpg&hash=764dacef3dfafa4a2be80c8728136cda)
The 12x12 pitch kept the snow off :)  Had piles of snow on either side of the cabin so it appears that we'll survive through the winter.

I do plan to get back soon though to continue the process.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: poppy on January 06, 2010, 08:14:53 AM
Glad to see your tarp is working out.  Snow is predicted for tomarrow here, and my canvass "garage" doesn't shed snow very well, so I will need to get out there before is takes on too much.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 06, 2010, 09:02:41 AM
Glad to see your tarp is working out.  Snow is predicted for tomarrow here, and my canvass "garage" doesn't shed snow very well, so I will need to get out there before is takes on too much.

I was soooo worried on our way up actually.  But was pleasantly surprised :)

Of course, we have lots of work to do yet, but knowing that the tarp is holding is a plus.  We used some of the felting nails to hold it down and tied some strings to it also.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 06, 2010, 09:51:41 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Jan2010021.jpg&hash=70f9c2f6140dc0ad6bcd50b5830cf8a6)
We took the jeep the 1/4 mile to the top of the property
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Pine Cone on January 06, 2010, 08:24:09 PM
Great to see that tarp roof holding up so well.  I can't imagine having to wait more than a few days to get back out to my cabin project.  I'm having difficulty even just waiting to go out on the weekends after many months of going out both weekends and during the week.  Today I got the chance to go out and check on things and couldn't resist! 

So now you have months to plan your first spring trip!! Roof sheathing, cabin wrap, insulation and all kinds of things to plan for. 

Looks like you can relax for now ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 06, 2010, 10:30:23 PM
We took the jeep the 1/4 mile to the top of the property

Looks like you have less snow than we do. There is no way we could drive the last 3 miles now. Fortunately we can snow show 1.2 miles rather easily.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 07, 2010, 10:46:57 AM
We took the jeep the 1/4 mile to the top of the property

Looks like you have less snow than we do. There is no way we could drive the last 3 miles now. Fortunately we can snow show 1.2 miles rather easily.

I'm actually quite surprised but I was told that it's been a dryer winter the last few years.  It's colder, but dryer so who knows.

I've also been told that it can get over 4 feet of buildup but that's nothing compared to say Snoqualmie which can get over 45 feet -- and the altitude isn't much different...but again, I'm in an area that only gets around 15 inches of rain a year.

As for you, at that altitude you could get 70+ feet  :o assuming it had the moisture to drop anyway...look at Crater Lake (albiet a lot further north and closer to the coast)...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 12, 2010, 06:14:25 PM
Getting excited again :)  We're planning another trip in a week and a half.  If the weather is agreeable we will work on the rest of the roof framing and sheeting :)

And maybe cut some wood to start getting it dried for the future wood stove :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 21, 2010, 07:17:35 AM
Finally!  I took tomorrow off work and have 3 days to get out to the cabin and install a door (YES!) and finish the roof framing and sheeting!  I've got a crew coming (well sorta -- daughters fiance, his brother and dad) and we hope to get serious work done as well as maybe a little shooting and ATV riding :D

Can't wait!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 25, 2010, 09:27:52 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FStores018.jpg&hash=4472944b8c80c16c0f41cc354f92fb1e)
My future son-in-law getting ready to pack out gear after our weekend at the cabin.  He and my step son both stayed IN the cabin :D  They were warm and comfy despite the fact that they had no door, no roof, no insulation and no fireplace.

So, where to begin?  I put that pic up becuase it was the first to get uploaded to photobucket but in truth I have a few to show.  All centered around the basic theme of 'nothing got done'.

You see, it all started back in...oh hell, in a nutshell we drove up the mountain and noticed that the road was getting pretty slick in spots.  My son-in-laws Dad was driving his Dodge 4x4 (with all seasons on it -- yikes) but I wasn't worried since two weeks earlier I drove up just fine and it wasn't too slick, just several inches of snow.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FStores013.jpg&hash=adc2cbbc659cc40c677df6df06e85828)
The boys getting gear rigged onto the 4 wheeler to haul it back to the rigs.

It was late afternoon and we were heading up the hill and around 2500 feet started to get into some ice but I kept thinking that it wouldn't be too bad since a couple people live further up then we have our spot.  However by the time we were approaching 3000 feet we were starting to get worried, the ruts were solid ice!

We made it to the easement road and with confidence I said (erroneously) we should be fine now.  I couldn't have been more wrong!  We turned onto the easement road and headed up only to discover it was a 300 foot long 9 foot wide treacherous skating rink!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FStores044.jpg&hash=270ce89e30cfab9e660cb1efe8e0f649)
We didn't realize that the snow melting off the trees in 35+ degree weather was freezing solid in the 20 degree nights and getting thicker and thicker and thicker on a very dangerous part of the road.  This part...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FStores036.jpg&hash=55d6aaf2cdee828df007bf6c978c080d)
Once we hit the ice we stopped cold, then began to slide back at about 20 miles per hour!  I told Mike to slow down!  He told me he was trying to!  We knew we were in deep kimchi right then and the truck was starting to drift sideways!

2 to 3 truck lengths (maybe 4) we stopped crossed up in the road with one tire almost off the road with a 20+ foot drop below it!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FStores038.jpg&hash=576603196e810e0259fc8b42662b2196)
We said some thanks to the man upstairs and worked the truck carefully back down the hill.

Then we walked up and grabbed the ATV's and used them to get our camping gear etc to the cabin (about 1/2 mile away).  It was clear no work was getting done this weekend!

But that didn't mean we didn't have some fun, work on cleaning out the shed, rode the heck out of the ATV's and generally enjoyed ourselves.  I also put up the trail cam with fresh batteries and we even had a visitor we think.....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FStores003.jpg&hash=ecc793c9e9214f837b1993e5aebfc029)

That is one of the old prints (within the last few days before we arrived) and the snow was too hard to leave any prints this weekend (frozen solid pretty much) but something was snooping around Saturday night.

This putty tat is probably 150-175 lbs!  Big kitty kitty :D
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FStores009.jpg&hash=1d3eb73a86b9e106be379036f7213723)

Anyway, perhaps in March we will be able to get some more work done.


Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 25, 2010, 09:36:35 AM
F&R chains would have been nice.  Too bad
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 25, 2010, 09:58:10 AM
My thoughts exactly Don.  I am constantly plagued with ice to the cabin.  Since I got a set of chains it is navigated with ease.  I got the ones with "ice bars" which are worth their weight in gold.

Oljarhead that is not a good feeling when you have no contriol backwards. Put a whole new meaning of "pucker power" doesn't it.

Glad you were able to get off safely.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 25, 2010, 10:42:02 AM
F&R chains would have been nice.  Too bad

I was wondering how much they would help on sheer ice?  On the way down I hit a spot that kicked me into the old ruts and shot me down 500 feet of mountain road with no (to very little) control!  I told the boys to hang on and away we went like a toboggan ride from hell!

That was scary.

So it's either serious studs or some kind of chains that will get me up and down without issue.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 25, 2010, 10:54:43 AM
My thoughts exactly Don.  I am constantly plagued with ice to the cabin.  Since I got a set of chains it is navigated with ease.  I got the ones with "ice bars" which are worth their weight in gold.

Oljarhead that is not a good feeling when you have no contriol backwards. Put a whole new meaning of "pucker power" doesn't it.

Glad you were able to get off safely.



I'll have to get a set of those!  I hate the idea of not being able to go up there and get work done.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 25, 2010, 10:58:45 AM
The V-bar chains from these guys would do the job.

http://www.tirechain.com/TRUCK-SUV-CHAINS.HTM (http://www.tirechain.com/TRUCK-SUV-CHAINS.HTM)

Mounting them on a Cherokee can be a problem. I have the stock rims with 32 x 11.5 x 15 tires. I do not have enough clearance between the sidewall chain and the rear leaf springs to allow the wheels to turn. A wheel with different backspacing would solve that problem. In the front I have a similar clearance problem. With the stock rims the tires rub the control arms at almost full steering lock. With chains that would be very bad. I believe greater backspacing would also solve that. However, I haven't looked any further than the theory. Chains would not help us right now at all. It's the depth of snow, last reported to be 30+ inches. A skinnier tire would be helpful as well; tall and skinny is good for snow.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tirechain.com%2Fimages%2F2800large.jpg&hash=b0178933ecaccb0e97dda0fdb3728a98)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 25, 2010, 11:34:02 AM
F&R chains would have been nice.  Too bad

I was wondering how much they would help on sheer ice?  On the way down I hit a spot that kicked me into the old ruts and shot me down 500 feet of mountain road with no (to very little) control!  I told the boys to hang on and away we went like a toboggan ride from hell!

That was scary.

So it's either serious studs or some kind of chains that will get me up and down without issue.


I have a set of what Don posted and they are great.  When my road was nothing but sheer ice they worked good up or down the hill.  I found though with going down hill it was better to keep at a constant speed (low) and not give it a chance to slide.  I never really had to worry either way though.  You might look at this post on a simple little aid for chains.  They work great.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3613.msg81071#msg81071

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 25, 2010, 12:11:09 PM
Thanks and Thanks :)

I've used chains once (when pulling sleds up to 5000 feet)....looks like it's time to get some!

Funny thing, I used to have two sets for my last jeep but gave them away becuase I never needed them -- now they wouldn't work anyway though, since my tires are bigger now.

Anyway, I've got 31x10.5x15's with over an inch cut out of the fenders, Rusty's flares, 8" rims that are offset to the outside so all is well there -- the only issue I see is that I lack a little clearance at the seem for the front rockers -- need to cut an inch out of there too.

But it sounds like chains are the answer and if I could drive all the way up then maybe, just maybe, I can get my door on!

Cheers
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on January 25, 2010, 01:14:47 PM
 :o :o  That was quite a ride!  Makes me nervous just thinking about it   :o
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 28, 2010, 09:34:37 AM
:o :o  That was quite a ride!  Makes me nervous just thinking about it   :o

It was quite the ride indeed -- pucker factor all the way down!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 01, 2010, 09:01:30 AM
:)

Planning my next trip!  Going to pick up parts to get the chimney installed as well as the door and perhaps the remaining roof en gabled end walls :)

I figure it's time to get the air nailer and get busy!

Of course we'll need chains to get there but this time we mean business!  I'm planning Feb 20th for the next trip so lots of time to get prepped.

Always exciting though, to plan and get moving again -- in this case I've learned that I need to install chimney brackets and stuff into the framing of the roof and then sheet over them for a more watertight roof around the chimney and the stabilizer brackets :)  Was good to learn -- I spent about an hour with an installer turned salesmen at our local wood stove shop and learned a bunch.  But still have tons of questions:

1.  When installing the wood stove wall penetrations isn't it better to side the wall first?

2.  When installing windows in walls sheeted with OSB and sided with T1-11 wouldn't it best to sheet the wall first too?

More to follow I'm sure.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 01, 2010, 09:23:50 AM

2.  When installing windows in walls sheeted with OSB and sided with T1-11 wouldn't it best to sheet the wall first too?

Here's the order I used.....

wall studs <> OSB sheathing <> building paper <> windows <> flashing <> siding

Your #1.... I'm not sure.... thinking.....     ???   Are you going to use a metal thimble?  Or...??
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 01, 2010, 09:29:01 AM
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/search-results.aspx?query=through%20wall
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 01, 2010, 09:33:00 AM

2.  When installing windows in walls sheeted with OSB and sided with T1-11 wouldn't it best to sheet the wall first too?

Here's the order I used.....

wall studs <> OSB sheathing <> building paper <> windows <> flashing <> siding

Your #1.... I'm not sure.... thinking.....     ???   Are you going to use a metal thimble?  Or...??

Metal Thimble?  Not sure what you are asking.

The windows (Vinyl Low-E) were installed after sheeting our addition here at home, then I added trim over that which nicely met the windows to give a flush appearance to the window trim.  I'll take a picture.

Anyway, so my take is that you install the siding first unless using lap siding.  In the case of lap siding you install the windows and trim and then install the lap.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 01, 2010, 09:34:36 AM

2.  When installing windows in walls sheeted with OSB and sided with T1-11 wouldn't it best to sheet the wall first too?

Here's the order I used.....

wall studs <> OSB sheathing <> building paper <> windows <> flashing <> siding

Your #1.... I'm not sure.... thinking.....     ???   Are you going to use a metal thimble?  Or...??

DOH!  hehe you were talking about the stove pipe not the window.

Yes, metal thimble / wall penetration -- which I think can be installed before the siding just like the roof penetration I'll be using.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 01, 2010, 09:40:21 AM
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/search-results.aspx?query=through%20wall

Looks like I should finish that wall before making that penetration and installing the stove pipe.  Which is ok -- it's interesting to consider the options.

For the roof penetration, since it's outside the cabin in the lookout I don't have to have a box etc installed, just a roof penetration / thimble? that allows for the 12x12 pitch.  Then depending on the height of the pipe above it might need support brackets and metal braces -- which is likely since I'm off center by about 3 feet.

I'll be playing with this a lot over the next few weeks while we prep for the trip becuase I want to finish the roof off and now know to start with the wall the stoves on too :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 01, 2010, 01:31:19 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FWestwall.jpg&hash=528b03724150dbd92991682c33b0e445)
Just updated my drawings a little.

Here you can see the outside of the west wall (14') and the inside (sort of)...I wanted to show the stove pipe run and where the penetration will be as well as the loft, collar ties and a few other things.

Since John has commented on the rafter ties section I'll add hurricane ties to each rafter to help secure them to the wall.  Incidentally, I find the only way to install them is to nail them to the top of the wall and to the rafter rather then down the wall -- since doing that puts them in sheeting only at the bottom -- maybe it's just me?

If there is a better way, or a better tie I would be happy to see it -- I'm using 2x6 rafters on a 2x6 wall so with the birdsmouth there is still a ledge on top of the wall.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2010, 07:50:00 AM
Sometimes I wonder if I should just scrap the catwalk and put in a couple heavy beams or logs across the top of the wall (secured to rafters) to provide some kind of rafter ties.

I've been worrying a little about this becuase I've got the 2' knee wall and for some reason thought the loft joists were all I needed....and collar ties.

So, what to do?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Minicup28 on February 02, 2010, 08:05:33 AM
re: TIRE CAHINS

http://www.tirechainsrequired.com/
http://www.tirechainsrequired.com/atv-tire-chains.html

I got my chains from these folks. Got them on the truck and all four ATV wheels. V-bar diamond on the rear & V-bar 2 link on the fronts
Four inches of dried oak leaves feels just like wet ice going downhill with a load of wood.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2010, 08:11:43 AM
re: TIRE CAHINS

http://www.tirechainsrequired.com/
http://www.tirechainsrequired.com/atv-tire-chains.html

I got my chains from these folks. Got them on the truck and all four ATV wheels. V-bar diamond on the rear & V-bar 2 link on the fronts
Four inches of dried oak leaves feels just like wet ice going downhill with a load of wood.

Thanks -- out of stock.

I checked them about a week ago -- same deal, Out of stock.  Might have to check Les Swab and see what they have since I'm planning my next trip!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 02, 2010, 08:26:33 AM
Check these... in stock as of right now

http://tirechain.com/31X10.50-15LT.htm
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2010, 11:06:50 AM
Check these... in stock as of right now

http://tirechain.com/31X10.50-15LT.htm

Thanks Don! 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2010, 02:02:30 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin3.jpg&hash=3288f3afee840960c64c521e607dd01c)

Played with Google Sketchup7 to make this.  It's pretty close though I'm pretty new to using it.

one thing I found was that building the outside dimensions first makes it tough to add interior -- I'm sure there an easy way to do it I just haven't figured it out yet.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 04, 2010, 08:27:02 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabinwith4-8deck2.jpg&hash=057c3dacf941b2bc3a55d859b1321972)

Did these to show a 4' deck/porch around the sides and back with an 8 foot deck out front.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabinwith4-8deck.jpg&hash=4cc7dccd42d67237c7552cedff043bd7)
Another look.

Thinking about snow loads is scaring me a little though :(  I'm afraid that this deck might have to be REALLY strong to handle the potential snow load of our cabin at 3100 feet -- I've been told that we only get about 2 feet of build up right now, but used to get 4 to 5 feet.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 04, 2010, 12:56:54 PM
OlJarhead you are probably wise to err on the side of caution but IMO I don't see you having any problems with a 8' deck if you build your roof according to what your snow load would be.  This is an extremely bad year for snow. So far we have had probably between 5-6 feet this winter with the most at one time around 30" . We are anticipating another 8-12" tomarrow and even more later next week.  This is how it used to be before Al Gore started talking.  ;)  You will never be looked down upon if you went a little overboard on the roof framing and it would not be that much more than what you are considering.  As others will say "when in doubt build it stout".

With my cabin roof at a 10/12 and the porch at 3/12 there is very little remaining once it slides from the top.  In fact it usually occurs on the following day.  The snow slidding off the 10/12 pushes the porch roof snow off as well.  I am glad I am not standing under the eves when this happens.  I was working when the back slid off and it sounded as if a train had ran through the cabin. ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 04, 2010, 03:05:54 PM
OlJarhead you are probably wise to err on the side of caution but IMO I don't see you having any problems with a 8' deck if you build your roof according to what your snow load would be.  This is an extremely bad year for snow. So far we have had probably between 5-6 feet this winter with the most at one time around 30" . We are anticipating another 8-12" tomarrow and even more later next week.  This is how it used to be before Al Gore started talking.  ;)  You will never be looked down upon if you went a little overboard on the roof framing and it would not be that much more than what you are considering.  As others will say "when in doubt build it stout".

With my cabin roof at a 10/12 and the porch at 3/12 there is very little remaining once it slides from the top.  In fact it usually occurs on the following day.  The snow slidding off the 10/12 pushes the porch roof snow off as well.  I am glad I am not standing under the eves when this happens.  I was working when the back slid off and it sounded as if a train had ran through the cabin. ;D

My 12/12 will be no problem :)  That much I've seen already -- nothing on the roof, 2 feet piled up on each side -- and that's with 2x6 framing and a tarp!  :o

My porch roof (as I've planned at the moment) will be 9 feet at the top and 7 feet at the bottom (a little low maybe but I felt a 2 foot drop was minimum for the 8 foot section) which I'm guessing makes it a 3/12 pitch? so that would be the same as yours.  The sides are only 4 feet as planned now anyway, making it a 6/12 -- so maybe you're right??

I only really worry abotu the snow coming off the cabin roof.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 06, 2010, 09:51:50 AM
Thanks to you all here I now know I can install the interior pine T&G without some kind of backboard  [cool] so that helps a little -- I'm pretty darn motivated but need to wait until the 20th to go up there.

Grrrr
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on February 07, 2010, 06:54:06 PM
Great drawings and Sketchup models. I love that program but I forget it faster than I learn it. Is that the correct covered portch roof pitch in your model?

I'm going to do the same thing with my wood stove, not penetrating the roof I mean. It was a thru wall in my yurt and it worked fine for our needs. We inherited a cheap Harbor Freight stove and it works great for being there on the weekends.

I feel your pain about trying to get things done at a remote location! Forgetting one thing can ruin a trip!

Keep up the good work and I can't wait until you post some more photos!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 08, 2010, 07:14:53 AM
Great drawings and Sketchup models. I love that program but I forget it faster than I learn it. Is that the correct covered portch roof pitch in your model?

I'm going to do the same thing with my wood stove, not penetrating the roof I mean. It was a thru wall in my yurt and it worked fine for our needs. We inherited a cheap Harbor Freight stove and it works great for being there on the weekends.

I feel your pain about trying to get things done at a remote location! Forgetting one thing can ruin a trip!

Keep up the good work and I can't wait until you post some more photos!



Thanks:)

It's correct as it can be I think -- using the measuring tape function I measured up the walls to 9 feet and then set the front of the porch at 7 feet.  Which might be a bit low for some but I'm 5'11 1/2" so figure anyone close to 7' can duck!

We're planning Feb 20th for our next trip, will have chains this time!  Going to try to get the door on and do some wood cutting :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 15, 2010, 02:19:10 PM
Have chains, will travel :D

Actually I'm pretty stoked since I've got Friday off, have chains and a friend is joining my step-son and I on the venture.

If all goes well we should get the door installed and some more work done on the roof framing.

Also can't wait to see if we got the cougar in the trail cam!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 18, 2010, 02:55:38 PM
I'm stoked now :D  The hardware/lumber yard is going to deliver to our site tomorrow!  [cool]

Going to have them deliver the remaining lumber and sheeting as well as the door etc so we can get the door on and maybe get the roof framing done and start on the sheeting :D

Of course, the weather while clear and sunny, is still cold enough at night to freeze the water dripping off trees so there might be a lot of ICE.  However we will have them drop the load as far as they can get and then we will pack the it in the rest of the way in the or on the jeep (with chains of course!).

Wish us luck!  I'll take pictures....

Oh man, the cabin fever is about to be solved!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on February 18, 2010, 06:25:21 PM
Good luck this weekend. Get your passenger in your jeep to take a video of your first assent up your icy road! Good luck with the cabin, I'm going to do a similar foundation to you near Lake Cushman, WA.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 18, 2010, 07:18:50 PM
Good luck this weekend. Get your passenger in your jeep to take a video of your first assent up your icy road! Good luck with the cabin, I'm going to do a similar foundation to you near Lake Cushman, WA.

I might do that!  Should be interesting.

I'm just hoping the road isn't iced up like last time.  If it is it will be a LONG day!  We'll get the delivery as close as we can but if the roads are as bad as they were a month ago then we will be hauling 18 sheets of OSB, a door, several 2x6's and 2x4's all in the back of the jeep (Cherokee) which will take a while.

At least this time we have chains though and a pick ax to break up sheets of ice if it's as bad as last time and proves a problem.

We're determined so we'll make it but I'm hopeful we won't lose precious daylight hauling lumber and OSB...

The mission is to get the gear there for the next trip and get the door installed.  After that it's sitting around the fire, cutting wood and cutting pines for railings.

Should be fun (always is actually).

Let us know when you start your cabin and be sure to post pics!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 18, 2010, 07:23:05 PM
Take a bucket of sand oe kitty litter along too. If it is icy it's nice to be able to sand places you want to walk on. I carry a 5 gallon Homer bucket full of brick sand.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 21, 2010, 08:55:52 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fland066-1.jpg&hash=05ff0f660f51ebaac1249813c113666b)
We have a door :)

With chains, food and determination we headed out to our place in the woods to try once again to at least get a door on the cabin and perhaps get some more supplies to the site, and we made it!

It all started Thursday when I realized I could be in Tonasket early on Friday, so I called the builder and asked if they would attempt a delivery.  They agree to give it a try since I agreed to offload the supplies at whatever location they could drive to and ferry it the rest of the way in my jeep -- if needed.  And away we went.

About 1 mile from our place the road began to get slippery but each uphill section was pretty decent with ruts down to the gravel so we were able to get all the way to the same spot we'd made it last month.  We then chained up the jeep and CUT our way up the hill :D  Those v-link chains are amazing!  Like ice chopping blocks tearing up the thick ice like no bodies business.  A couple trips up and down and the flat bed (1 1/4 Ford 4x4 dualey) made it up with just a little sliding.

We off loaded the gear and the fearless delivery driver slipped his way back down the drive - gingerly - and safely returned to the shop.

We also cut about 20 pines ranging from 1 1/2 inches thick to 3 inches (at the base anyway) and 5 feet to 10 feet tall.  All have at least 4 feet of usable tree (1 1/2" in width) for making the railings.  However, I figure I'll need at least 8 rails and at 1- 3 per tree I'm looking at around 30+ trees.  Although after cutting 20 or so out of one spot it was hard to tell and it's a spot I wanted to clear anyway since it will shade the place my solar panels should probably go :)

Anyway, aside from the 'Road Warrior' missing badly on #1, #2 and #6 by the time we got home (started on #1, then #1 stopped and #2 started (after I used injector cleaner) then #2 and #6 and finally all three -- errggg) we'd made it through a successful weekend and have a door with deadbolt and locking knobs :)  Seriously!  Now my wife can actually OPEN the door and look inside on our next trip (probably should clean it out then huh?).

Cheers
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: diyfrank on February 22, 2010, 04:23:59 AM
Hey OlJarhead, whats your elevation and does your place have a southern/northern exposer?
I'm planning a trip in may to curlew to do some road maintenance but as mild as this winter has been I'm thinking I may get in as early as the end of march. Maybe?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 22, 2010, 07:58:13 AM
Hey OlJarhead, whats your elevation and does your place have a southern/northern exposer?
I'm planning a trip in may to curlew to do some road maintenance but as mild as this winter has been I'm thinking I may get in as early as the end of march. Maybe?

We're at about 3100 feet and the road is good up to around 2800-2900 feet then it gets pretty icy in the areas that are shaded.  It's been warm during the day and is melting everything off so perhaps if you aren't much higher then us you should be good :)

Our neighbor is at closer to 4000 feet (or higher) and he's making it up there no problem!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 22, 2010, 09:17:45 AM
OlJarhead glad you made it up and jilted the "cabin fever" for a couple more weeks. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 22, 2010, 09:22:54 AM
OlJarhead glad you made it up and jilted the "cabin fever" for a couple more weeks. 

Thanks :D  Now I need to do some Jeep work before going back.  But it's long overdue!  I need to fix the running issues and then swap out the 3.55:1's for 4.10:1's since upgrading the suspension and tires.

Also need to get the AC working and the stereo working!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 22, 2010, 09:43:43 AM
When I swapped my 3.55's for 4.56's (32" tires) my highway fuel mileage actually got better. Plus the around town drive-ability was better too.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 22, 2010, 11:10:28 AM
When I swapped my 3.55's for 4.56's (32" tires) my highway fuel mileage actually got better. Plus the around town drive-ability was better too.

Yup -- heard that a LOT lately.  Makes sense too since the taller tires lower the RPM's at any speed you are traveling thus taking it out of optimum power range and making the jeep work harder to maintain speed -- funny how that works but it does (or so all my racing buddies tell me).

I'm planning 4.10's becuase I'm running 31's and have read that's the right adjustment to make and I really can't wait!  For one thing, I was getting worried becuase I was towing a heavy trailer a LOT and it seemed to put too much added stress and strain on the jeep becuase of the bigger tires - it towed but not so good.  Once the 4.10's are in I ought to be laughing ;)

Of course, I'm not doing it myself so the cost factor kinda sucks but I want it done right and the last time I did anything that delicate was a LONG time ago...so I'll let a pro install them but I'll get the parts myself.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 23, 2010, 07:42:59 AM
After cutting several pines for loft railings it was time to enjoy a fire and company :)  Biggy (Shawnee Thunder Pony Big Mountain -- Biggy for short) and Josh relaxing in the 25 degree weather -- around a rather warm fire :)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2Fland082.jpg&hash=967e4f5375d378d4275df6cc86fe4556)

The driveway turned into an ATV fun zone on Sunday before packing up.  As you can see much of it was still ice -- actually it all was becuase the dirt sections were 3-4" of frozen ground unless in a spot where a LOT of sun hits.
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Ice -- good thing we had chains :D
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I took this view I think just because :)
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One thing nice about going up there is that I get lots of pics to remind of why I like being there :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 24, 2010, 08:25:54 AM
Seems my Banks Torque Tube header is cracked at the welds so Quadratec is sending a new one (gotta love Gale Banks) and I'll swap that out this weekend.

Also should be ordering front end and read end parts soon :)  Can wait to get all the work done on the jeep -- don't like that it takes away from cabin funds but on the other hand means I can GET TO the cabin :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 24, 2010, 08:31:18 AM
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Figured I'd post a few more pics of 'the boys' playing before packing up and leaving on Sunday.

Wish I had more construction pictures but after the door was done I decided to take a break and enjoy the weekend (and worry about the jeep)....

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Josh was spinning around to go back and catch Biggy -- later Biggy rolled the Yamaha!

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Biggy in front, Josh in the back -- both having too much fun :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 24, 2010, 09:28:10 AM
 :) ;D [cool]

Just pulled the trigger at Rusty's for 4.10:1 gears and rebuild kits (and carrier) to get the gearing done!

So, new header (again), new gears, fixed vacuum issues, AC and stereo -- heck next trip up ought to be one heck of a wonderful trip :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 02, 2010, 09:33:12 AM
Not sure how long (or the cost) of the diff rebuilds yet but the shop rate is excellent and the shop comes VERY highly recommended (Lynn St. James old crew chief recommended them :D )

Can't wait!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 16, 2010, 07:00:23 AM
We're almost there!  FRIDAY COME ON!!!

The jeep was done and runs like a new rig :D  I'm loving it!!!  Heck, the Road Warrior is a happy camper now!

So, I have ALL of next week off!  WHooHoo!  Just been planning the attack.  I'm thinking Sunday and Monday to complete the roof framing and sheeting.  Tuesday and Wednesday to complete the Window Installs, Thursday and Friday to felt the building completely (and finish any window left overs).

Might be a bit ambitious but we will have a compressor and there will be three of us.

I'm also going to go buy some rope (rappelling rope that is -- or climbing rope -- have to ask) so I'll have some safety.  No roofing ladder or hooks (couldn't find any anywhere) so will just have to wing it.  But with a good ladder, roof jacks and rope I should be fine.  Besides, I plan to do a boatload from the inside if possible.

We've got out work cut out for us but the days are getting longer and I'm ready to rock and roll!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 17, 2010, 01:55:40 PM
Just left the wood stove shop -- had to go over all the parts I will need to install the pipe -- I'm dreading the price tag!

Looks like I need the 6"-90 from the stove to the wall, then a collar and tie to SS pipe and a wall thimble, plus an elbow support and SS 6" elbow with cap, then about 14 feet of SS pipe, a roof support, wall bracket/support, flashing and cap and roof support for the last 4' of pipe (approximate amount to stick out above.

I know the pipe is really pricey but I'm hopeful the other parts aren't too nuts...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 26, 2010, 07:12:59 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-3-24-2010001.jpg&hash=cddc02ed7a82d314998109f362332e95)
My son contemplating the stairs we built on the 5th day -- it was his idea :)
 
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Roof!  Well almost!  We're getting there now.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 26, 2010, 07:15:30 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-3-23-2010045.jpg&hash=eac2678abf73ff4f6cc3143b1a3d2828)
Bought a 24' ladder, got a 28' footer...was heavy and hard to move but VERY secure!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin007.jpg&hash=b111449ffd909ed727c43bf80ffcc4b3)
Rigged up a safety line and got busy.

The first side we did mostly by running up a sheet, holding it in place, running up to the loft (me) and helping nail it down, then doing it all over again :)

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It's only 20 feet up and that 2x4 is nailed with 16 penny nails...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 26, 2010, 07:19:40 AM
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We arrived Saturday and got some grass seed spread on the easement (to help keep the bank together) and then met the neighbors (all but one for the 1st time).

We got set up but didn't do too much.  Then Sunday we managed to get the gabled en walls framed and the look outs framed.

Monday we sheeted the gabled ends and finished blocked the rafters, putting in hurricane ties and finishing off some of the wall nailing.

Tuesday was the big day and we sheeted over half the roof!  Crazy day!

Wednesday was a bit of a lazy day and we framed stairs (I goofed a little on those but they are temporary still) and did some ATV riding.  Also got some great poles for the porch :)

Thursday we did all but a couple spots on the roof sheeting and called it a trip -- completely smoked!

Ahhh it was a good week though :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 26, 2010, 08:47:20 AM
Looking good.  Make sure you get some titanium felt or tar paper on as soon as you can. Tarps have a short life span.  BTW did you take my ladder.  Have one exactly like it.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 26, 2010, 10:01:32 AM
Looking good.  Make sure you get some titanium felt or tar paper on as soon as you can. Tarps have a short life span.  BTW did you take my ladder.  Have one exactly like it.

I wish we could have done so this trip but we just plumb ran out of steam!

We were thinking about the tar paper and wondered if the best way to put it down was top down.  Why?  Well, with the roof pitch as steep as it is it almost seems it would be easier to put the top piece in, then the next row by sliding up under the top before nailing it down, and so on until you are at the bottom and can install via ladder?

Also, how on gods green earth does one go about roofing one of these things? ha!  I need wings or something!  12x12 pitch is um, steep!

The ladder?  Funny story, I bought a 24' one but the store only had a 28 so they gave me it :)  I needed it becuase of my 265lbs...and you add some OSB and a belt full of nails and ya, I need the big boy ladder! hehehe

Cheers
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 26, 2010, 10:18:25 AM
Looking good.  Make sure you get some titanium felt or tar paper on as soon as you can. Tarps have a short life span.  BTW did you take my ladder.  Have one exactly like it.

I wish we could have done so this trip but we just plumb ran out of steam!

We were thinking about the tar paper and wondered if the best way to put it down was top down.  Why?  Well, with the roof pitch as steep as it is it almost seems it would be easier to put the top piece in, then the next row by sliding up under the top before nailing it down, and so on until you are at the bottom and can install via ladder?

Also, how on gods green earth does one go about roofing one of these things? ha!  I need wings or something!  12x12 pitch is um, steep!

The ladder?  Funny story, I bought a 24' one but the store only had a 28 so they gave me it :)  I needed it becuase of my 265lbs...and you add some OSB and a belt full of nails and ya, I need the big boy ladder! hehehe

Cheers

Yes you can run it in reverse order.  Just attach it to the lap marks (usually a white line laid out by the manufacturer).  Slip the next course under the previous and secure except for the lap portion.  So on and so on.

Didn't pay attention whether you are going with shingle or metal.  Shingle then you will need "roof jacks" which allow you to use them under the shingels as you climb to the top.  Metal it is best to use a chicken ladder and keep slidding it over with each progressive sheet.  The person on the ridge can just straddle to hold and adjust.  To make them feel better you can use roof jacks or nail cleats on the roof (back side) to keep from straddiling.

As for the picture. I don't really think he is thinking about the steps.  He is probably wondering how "dad" ever talked me into this. ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 26, 2010, 12:12:37 PM
Looking good.  Make sure you get some titanium felt or tar paper on as soon as you can. Tarps have a short life span.  BTW did you take my ladder.  Have one exactly like it.

I wish we could have done so this trip but we just plumb ran out of steam!

We were thinking about the tar paper and wondered if the best way to put it down was top down.  Why?  Well, with the roof pitch as steep as it is it almost seems it would be easier to put the top piece in, then the next row by sliding up under the top before nailing it down, and so on until you are at the bottom and can install via ladder?

Also, how on gods green earth does one go about roofing one of these things? ha!  I need wings or something!  12x12 pitch is um, steep!

The ladder?  Funny story, I bought a 24' one but the store only had a 28 so they gave me it :)  I needed it becuase of my 265lbs...and you add some OSB and a belt full of nails and ya, I need the big boy ladder! hehehe

Cheers

Yes you can run it in reverse order.  Just attach it to the lap marks (usually a white line laid out by the manufacturer).  Slip the next course under the previous and secure except for the lap portion.  So on and so on.

Didn't pay attention whether you are going with shingle or metal.  Shingle then you will need "roof jacks" which allow you to use them under the shingels as you climb to the top.  Metal it is best to use a chicken ladder and keep slidding it over with each progressive sheet.  The person on the ridge can just straddle to hold and adjust.  To make them feel better you can use roof jacks or nail cleats on the roof (back side) to keep from straddiling.

As for the picture. I don't really think he is thinking about the steps.  He is probably wondering how "dad" ever talked me into this. ;)

Metal roof -- straddling the roof might be a good way for the top -- though there would have to be some kind of safety line I'm thinking...it's a good 20 feet to the ground!  I haven't found a roofing ladder yet but I think I'll do a net search and order!  That HAS to be better then what I was doing.

As for it being a chicken ladder this old jarhead learned a while back that not only is he mortal, but he's not unbreakable and prefers to not be any more broken! ha!  So, while I'm certainly no chicken (I did a jig on my roof) I'd prefer not to fall.

Speaking of falling, I did that too this weekend.  Only I was half way down the ladder (maybe still 7 feet off the ground) and had put on a rappelling break to rappel down the ladder (like a dumb ass jarhead would do) and wasn't paying attention to my rope (like an old one that forgot more then he likes to admit)...I hit the break just in time to realize the mistake I made -- while flying out over free air (or so I thought)...then I chose ground over wall and let the break out only to learn the hard way that my son moved in the same direction.

Poor guy!  265lbs of marine flying out of the air is tough to stop...but then again, he will NEVER look down at the ground again while holding my ladder! hahaha

Felt bad for crushing him into the ground like that though.  He's a big kid at 220 himself but flying jarhead is not something you want landing on you! *chuckle*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: jdhen on March 26, 2010, 02:10:25 PM
Looking good, Jarhead!  Seems like you're moving right along!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Pine Cone on March 26, 2010, 06:11:01 PM
Looking good.

I got my roofing stuff at my local ABR store in Poulsbo.  They had the best price quote by a good margin on the metal roofing I bought.  They also sold me some synthetic underlayment that I liked.  They're on your side of the water as well.  They have a website here.   No interest other than being a satisfied customer.   Buy the kneepads they have as well.  Worth the $16 or so, and pretty sticky on the roof as long as the metal is dry.

http://americanbuildingandroofing.com/ (http://americanbuildingandroofing.com/)

My oldest son had experience with synthetic roofing felt when he lived in Florida, and it can be left on the roof instead of a tarp for far longer than normal tar-based felt, max of about six months.  It is also recommended for metal roofing, and since it is very lightweight it is much easier to apply if you are understaffed as I was.  The brand I got was Palisade.  It  has little slip-resistant dots on it that worked pretty well until it was very wet.  I don't recommend roofing in the rain, but I still got two chances thanks to my schedule.  The safety rope is a must.  Glad you had one on when you fell.

http://www.sdp-products.com/HTML/palisade.html (http://www.sdp-products.com/HTML/palisade.html)




Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: jdejarn on March 27, 2010, 05:38:58 AM
I don't say much, but I am building in your area also.  Spent last season on the build, and the roof is waht got me the worst because I too have a 12-12 pitch, metal. We tar papered from the top down, pushing the lower layer under the top. As for the metal roof, we set up a scaffold on the side of the house, attached an extension ladder to it with a 2x4 as a footer and ratchet straps, and used the ladder to access the sheet and the screws.  Attached the cap as we went.  Scary as can be and made some guys with experience nervous, but it only took about 5-6 hours for the roof.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Osprey on March 27, 2010, 04:35:22 PM
My roof is 10/12 and we used the angled jacks with a plank. We started at the far end and unscrewed and screwed the planks as needed. The saving grace was the less steep pitch over the deck. It was still a pain and almost impossible to get the metal up and on without scratching the metal. I went with the heavier 26 gauge metal so it was harder on the guys screwing the roof down than a normal 29 gauge roof. I hope if a limb hits the roof the heavier metal will make it worth the extra cost and trouble to install.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 28, 2010, 06:33:45 AM
jd -- you, yonderosa and myself (and any others) ought to meet for pizza in town one of these trips! :)

Thanks for the tips too.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 28, 2010, 02:44:05 PM
Osprey I've thought about putting the deck up first but decided not to in the end.

Probably would have been the better choice though!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on March 28, 2010, 09:21:54 PM
A couple years ago I purchased my property - 40 acres up near Okanogan... a bit south of Tonasket, but up in the hills.  I'm at about 4100', and am looking forward to building this summer (if the employment situation sorts itself out and I can afford it)

I'm reading with great interest your experience - and learning a  bunch about what to do (and what not to do  ;) ).

I have about a 4.5 hour drive once I get to Seattle (ferry ride from Bremerton), so I know what you mean about a long drive to the place.  I've been mulling over foundations, etc... for nearly a year.  I'm thinking that I'll use pier and post for the first cabin (I hope to build 3 on my property)

My biggest problem is finding someone to drill a well that won't cost me an arm and a leg ... or drilling it myself - which will take a long time.

Anyway, it seems like there are a LOT of folk building up in that area.  It would be interesting to get together an discuss our projects over a couple of beers sometime.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: jdejarn on March 29, 2010, 05:44:22 AM
You're on for pizza, or a couple of beers and compare notes and building scars.  Gotta start my own thread one of these nights and share the build with the group.  Been into my cabin weekends for about 5 mos, progress about like you have made, so I feel better that I am making average time!  I have a few details to go, then I can call in the 60-day cabin final inspection.  That is when I get to do the things I want to!  Hopefully I can have this good to go for a winter night stay this October.

I'll drop in here again and chat more later!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 04, 2010, 10:35:12 AM
Ordered Roofing and Windows last week and the roofing should be in this week.  I'll go up Friday, deliver the roofing material and get the roofing started.  Then I have a long weekend then next weekend so I'll get the windows delivered and try to finish the roofing.

Going to be a tough go with that pitch though, but I ordered ladder hooks and am looking for a 8-10 foot aluminum ladder now to put them on.  Figure that will work well enough.

Also will have to get new batteries for the drill (they are about 3 years old and dying regularly now).

Can't wait though!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 07, 2010, 05:49:22 AM
H Clips

Just a thought on these buggers.

When I began sheeting the roof I was in a bit of a hurry and totally forgot to include the clips.  I got 95% of one side done before realizing what I'd done.  I put them in the other side.

Now I have a dilemma on what to do.  I'm thinking of straightening up the tines on one side and pushing them through and then flattening them out again.  I know it's a cabin but I've framed the roof on 24" centers and think it's best to stop the OSB flex between rafters at joins.

Anyone else done this?  Solutions?

Thanks

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 07, 2010, 06:28:13 AM
Can't say that I have any solutions, but I do envy you being able to get up there this weekend.

Hopefully I'll be heading up sometime towards the end of the month for a few days
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 07, 2010, 07:12:34 AM
Can't say that I have any solutions, but I do envy you being able to get up there this weekend.

Hopefully I'll be heading up sometime towards the end of the month for a few days

Turns out this weekend will only be an up and back trip to pick up the roofing and deliver it to the site.  I'll check the tarp and secure it better also.  My boss is off on PTO for the weekend so I can't be out of cell range and our cabin is definitely out of cell range! ha!

But the following weekend I have off (took Friday) so I'll go up Thursday night (15th I think) and stay to Sunday night.  That should be the big roofing weekend :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Managed to race up (4+ hours) grab the trailer, drive to the builders store (45 minutes), get the roofing, drive back (another 45) and fix the tarp on the cabin, take a few pics and then drive home (4+ hours) on Saturday.  Ya, it was a long day!  But I had a friend along and it made the drive easier.

Honestly I hate wasting $100+ that way but it needed to be done.

This weekend we will get to work in earnest on the roof :)

Couple pics for ya:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-10-2010020.jpg&hash=3cca4c68f8ed2770d104ac7a385c05d1)
I've been trying to get a picture that gives a feel for our place in the woods :)  It's really quite secluded and tucked in between the mountains in a valley created by a little stream.  We own the hill to the south of us and to the north the mountains go up another 1000 feet or more.  All around the cabin are trees but there are also some meadows.

To the left of the cabin and behind it (Northwest) is an area that catches a fair amount of sun and I think will make a good garden plot of I choose to put on in some day.  The stream is 30-50 feet below the cabin and the Cistern is about 50-70 above it (above where this picture was taken actually).

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 13, 2010, 07:03:57 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-10-2010028.jpg&hash=b446a59bf19d834c9ac14dd1fa6cda7c)
This one is looking North through the trees.

One thing I've noticed is that in the winter the area is pretty brown and drab looking but in the spring and summer it comes alive!  I can't wait to see the cabin roofed and sided with windows and all that green grass around! :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 13, 2010, 07:05:39 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-10-2010018.jpg&hash=7dfe80058b919da816978a4c18334344)
This one I wanted to shot the height of the trees!  Most of the trees appear to be Ponderosa Pines but there are also some Fir's on the property.  I'm still learning to identify them -- it's never been something I learned despite years in the woods!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 13, 2010, 07:09:43 AM
OK now I'm just getting carried away :D  But I'm hoping you are enjoying it...I am!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-10-2010015.jpg&hash=b43d91ed70313e389bc4df080e879a47)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on April 13, 2010, 07:52:47 AM
I'm still learning to identify them -- it's never been something I learned despite years in the woods!

The short quick basics of the common three around my NM mountains.

Pines: needles grow in clusters of 2, 3 or 5 needles.

Firs: needles are individually attached and are flat in cross section.

Spruce: needles are individually attached and are square in cross section.

This gave me an idea for another topic..

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8793.msg113722#msg113722 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8793.msg113722#msg113722)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on April 13, 2010, 08:05:25 AM
The property looks nice. I'd love to see more in greener seasons.


Looks like you need to do some thinning too   ;)   
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 13, 2010, 08:10:49 AM
The property looks nice. I'd love to see more in greener seasons.


Looks like you need to do some thinning too   ;)   


I went back to look at the pictures from last June and WOW!  So green!  It will be amazing.

I noticed some shoots of grass coming up last trip :)  I also plan to bring a bag of seed each trip in order to try to get more grass growing on the easement road to keep the bank from caving
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on April 13, 2010, 08:24:06 AM
In a small town near us the old general store has bulk supplies of many grasses that are native to our mountains. We've spread some of them around.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 13, 2010, 03:10:00 PM
Good point Don -- I'll check locally to see what's natural and does well (since it's 160 miles north of where we live).

Jusst took the plunge and bought the Centrex 2000 AC/DC Sun Mar Composting Toilet system.  Pretty spendy at $2300 (with toilet and shipping) but we want an 'indoor' bathroom and this seemed to be the best option.

I'll be installing the unit outside of the cabin in it's own enclosure.  I MAY install it under the cabin (that was the original plan and part of the reason for the height off the ground) but Have to figure out the best way to get the vent stack up without running it through the roof as well as providing room to clean out the compost etc etc.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 14, 2010, 02:18:21 PM
Found an outhouse seat riser from Canada for $103 :)  Ordered it and after shipping was $160.

Considering the ones I found in the US were between $350 and $500 I think this is a great deal :D

It will be our backup.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 14, 2010, 03:17:23 PM
Good point Don -- I'll check locally to see what's natural and does well (since it's 160 miles north of where we live).

Jusst took the plunge and bought the Centrex 2000 AC/DC Sun Mar Composting Toilet system.  Pretty spendy at $2300 (with toilet and shipping) but we want an 'indoor' bathroom and this seemed to be the best option.

I'll be installing the unit outside of the cabin in it's own enclosure.  I MAY install it under the cabin (that was the original plan and part of the reason for the height off the ground) but Have to figure out the best way to get the vent stack up without running it through the roof as well as providing room to clean out the compost etc etc.

So where did you purchase it from? I just received info from CTS in Newport as I am thinking of something similar for the cabin(s) I plan on building eventually
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 14, 2010, 08:17:14 PM
Good point Don -- I'll check locally to see what's natural and does well (since it's 160 miles north of where we live).

Jusst took the plunge and bought the Centrex 2000 AC/DC Sun Mar Composting Toilet system.  Pretty spendy at $2300 (with toilet and shipping) but we want an 'indoor' bathroom and this seemed to be the best option.

I'll be installing the unit outside of the cabin in it's own enclosure.  I MAY install it under the cabin (that was the original plan and part of the reason for the height off the ground) but Have to figure out the best way to get the vent stack up without running it through the roof as well as providing room to clean out the compost etc etc.

So where did you purchase it from? I just received info from CTS in Newport as I am thinking of something similar for the cabin(s) I plan on building eventually

Kaylx.com

Price wasn't too bad and the shipping was exceptable.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 15, 2010, 05:38:00 AM
Good point Don -- I'll check locally to see what's natural and does well (since it's 160 miles north of where we live).

Jusst took the plunge and bought the Centrex 2000 AC/DC Sun Mar Composting Toilet system.  Pretty spendy at $2300 (with toilet and shipping) but we want an 'indoor' bathroom and this seemed to be the best option.

I'll be installing the unit outside of the cabin in it's own enclosure.  I MAY install it under the cabin (that was the original plan and part of the reason for the height off the ground) but Have to figure out the best way to get the vent stack up without running it through the roof as well as providing room to clean out the compost etc etc.

So where did you purchase it from? I just received info from CTS in Newport as I am thinking of something similar for the cabin(s) I plan on building eventually

Kaylx.com

Price wasn't too bad and the shipping was exceptable.


Thanks, I'll take a look over there.  The pricing that I received yesterday isn't too much different than what you paid - maybe a little more - but they are somewhat local, and I an trying to get info from them on any tips they may have to permitting, etc... in WA, since they are in this state.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 15, 2010, 06:33:20 AM
Good point Don -- I'll check locally to see what's natural and does well (since it's 160 miles north of where we live).

Jusst took the plunge and bought the Centrex 2000 AC/DC Sun Mar Composting Toilet system.  Pretty spendy at $2300 (with toilet and shipping) but we want an 'indoor' bathroom and this seemed to be the best option.

I'll be installing the unit outside of the cabin in it's own enclosure.  I MAY install it under the cabin (that was the original plan and part of the reason for the height off the ground) but Have to figure out the best way to get the vent stack up without running it through the roof as well as providing room to clean out the compost etc etc.

So where did you purchase it from? I just received info from CTS in Newport as I am thinking of something similar for the cabin(s) I plan on building eventually

Kaylx.com

Price wasn't too bad and the shipping was exceptable.


Thanks, I'll take a look over there.  The pricing that I received yesterday isn't too much different than what you paid - maybe a little more - but they are somewhat local, and I an trying to get info from them on any tips they may have to permitting, etc... in WA, since they are in this state.

There is a place over in your neck of the woods but their pricing was higher then suggested retail so I was a bit pissed.  That's why I went with the NY company.

I paid $2325 which included the 2000 AC/DC model, 510 Sealand toilet and $150 for shipping.  Will be coming straight from SunMar

Only thing I have to do is provide the pipe and the seat mountain flange I guess (need to reread that and try to understand why).
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 15, 2010, 08:28:03 AM
Good point Don -- I'll check locally to see what's natural and does well (since it's 160 miles north of where we live).

Jusst took the plunge and bought the Centrex 2000 AC/DC Sun Mar Composting Toilet system.  Pretty spendy at $2300 (with toilet and shipping) but we want an 'indoor' bathroom and this seemed to be the best option.

I'll be installing the unit outside of the cabin in it's own enclosure.  I MAY install it under the cabin (that was the original plan and part of the reason for the height off the ground) but Have to figure out the best way to get the vent stack up without running it through the roof as well as providing room to clean out the compost etc etc.

So where did you purchase it from? I just received info from CTS in Newport as I am thinking of something similar for the cabin(s) I plan on building eventually

Kaylx.com

Price wasn't too bad and the shipping was exceptable.


Thanks, I'll take a look over there.  The pricing that I received yesterday isn't too much different than what you paid - maybe a little more - but they are somewhat local, and I an trying to get info from them on any tips they may have to permitting, etc... in WA, since they are in this state.

There is a place over in your neck of the woods but their pricing was higher then suggested retail so I was a bit pissed.  That's why I went with the NY company.

I paid $2325 which included the 2000 AC/DC model, 510 Sealand toilet and $150 for shipping.  Will be coming straight from SunMar

Only thing I have to do is provide the pipe and the seat mountain flange I guess (need to reread that and try to understand why).

Looking through the literature I got yesterday, I noticed that some of the pictures show the vent pipe exiting the crawlspace/basement before reaching the level of the floor above - specifically on Pages 16 and 17 of the SunMar catalog (covering the various Centrax 2000 models), so it looks like it can be done.  I would think that it would have to be affixed to the building/house/cabin on the outside in some way so it wouldn't get blown away on that rare windy day.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on April 15, 2010, 08:31:25 AM
Sounds like a pretty good deal.
I have been kicking aroung the idea of a composting head from Sun Mar, in fact I think I looked at the same one you just ordered (the non-electric model).  I put the breaks on after I read somewhere that the composting or breakdown of the waste material comes to a grinding halt when temperatures dip below 55-60 degrees.  I have not done enough resrearch to know if that is true.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

In our case, we'll only use the cabin a few times in the winter months, having waste sit in sub freezing tempertures will not be a big deal.  It's the spring and fall months that I wonder about.

You got the wheels turning OJ, good job- you're getting me pumped to get over there and get to work again after a long winter.  Talk is they may open the N. Cascade pass by this weekend- we can only hope.
All the best!
T
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 15, 2010, 08:41:02 AM
Sounds like a pretty good deal.
I have been kicking aroung the idea of a composting head from Sun Mar, in fact I think I looked at the same one you just ordered (the non-electric model).  I put the breaks on after I read somewhere that the composting or breakdown of the waste material comes to a grinding halt when temperatures dip below 55-60 degrees.  I have not done enough resrearch to know if that is true.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

In our case, we'll only use the cabin a few times in the winter months, having waste sit in sub freezing tempertures will not be a big deal.  It's the spring and fall months that I wonder about.

You got the wheels turning OJ, good job- you're getting me pumped to get over there and get to work again after a long winter.  Talk is they may open the N. Cascade pass by this weekend- we can only hope.
All the best!
T

50-55 is what I understand the bottom temp range is but also why I bought the AC/DC model.  I want to use the internal heater element to aid in the composting.

I've read that they use them in Alaska but that they do so by providing heat for them when in use.

Don found that his didn't work so well at the elevation (and cold) he's in but the waste can freeze all winter just fine as long as when it thaws it gets rotated and can then compost.

but this is why I'm putting in a Privy too :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on April 16, 2010, 07:35:42 AM
I've got one in my outhouse the non-electric model. We mostly use it during the summer so it works for us but I can tell you the composting does slow down during the winter. It's the least smelling out house people have ever used. ladies like it. I think the #1 goes out the back into some kind of drain field? I don't know because i didn't install it.

It's got 2 swappable containers inside that you can switch if the active one needs more "compost time" before you dump it out. Only one container is active at a time.

I can tell you we had a party with 50 people one memorial day weekend and a band off the grid. That thing really got some use and it was fine. In fact I haven't dumped it since after that weekend, it was 1 years ago. It's due and I'm sure the bucket behind it is composted.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 18, 2010, 06:44:31 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2Fth_IMG_0961.jpg&hash=26a4598782d92bb1102e5195ea6de73f) (http://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/?action=view&current=IMG_0961.flv)
All work and no play....

My son riding up 'The Hill'.  I took the jeep down and then back up it also :)

Great fun!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 18, 2010, 06:47:48 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010115.jpg&hash=aa3bfced9ebac4a3125e171d9f45e9d5)
Getting there!  I'll try to post more soon.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 19, 2010, 05:46:42 AM
Looking good!  I was anxiously awaiting your post - hoping for a bit of a snow (or lack thereof) report.  It looks like you didn't have any snow on the ground this trip - that's great.

I'm planning on heading up to my place the first weekend in May (leaving on April 30th) and hope to actually break ground for the first building! 

What did you get completed this trip?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 19, 2010, 08:03:00 AM
No snow!  In fact it hit 80 during the day in the sun :)  Of course as soon as the sun hid behind trees it dropped to 70 -- even 60 at times -- it was PERFECT!

Man it was so awesome I hated to leave!!!  What's worse?  I forgot I'd taken Monday off too...DOH!  Ahh well.

Back was hurting to stayed off the roof and got the windows in instead.  Also completed most of the felt paper on the walls and finished a lot of 'back framing' stuff (nailing off forgotten things mostly).

And played a little in the Jeep and ATV's too....what an awesome weekend! :D  Geez, I wish I'd not forgotten that I had put myself down for Monday too....what's even worse?  I make the darn schedule! hahahaha I'm the dang boss....ahhh well...next time!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 19, 2010, 05:52:50 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010020.jpg&hash=e18d8e87743c722abf78e785a114ba5f)
Getting rigged up for some work up high :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010029.jpg&hash=07b93927bc434f7cbb9d6e67b210d677)
OK the window is installed now so we decided a shot of my friend standing in the small loft for reference.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010026.jpg&hash=0171c5cf8eb1d8f06cdcc973e3a9c34b)
The Big Loft :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010037.jpg&hash=04d074d8f4ffec3334bfc1eafc7c4821)
Windows in!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010039.jpg&hash=48f08f4f9fc68c9cfd5dda468db98c70)
The back side :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 20, 2010, 06:07:40 AM
Wow! It looks like you're going to be able to finish almost any weekend, now!  [cool]

Then you'll be up there, sitting on the deck, enjoying a cool one  :)

Did ya see any wildlife this time? Turkeys, etc...? I'm hoping I see a few up at my place.

I was a Lowes last night to buy a drain auger, and picked up a few of the solar "path lights" for $4 each - I figure, no power on the property, but I can have some sort of lighting so I can find my way in the dark, if I have to  ;D  I liked them because the battery is an 'AA' sized rechargeable and is easily replaced so it's not "planned obsolescence"

Hmmm, that reminds me, I should fire up the genset to make sure it's in operating order.

If you're going to be up there the first weekend in May, let me know, we can meet in Omak or Riverside and have a beer and swap stories.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 20, 2010, 06:25:11 AM
Wow! It looks like you're going to be able to finish almost any weekend, now!  [cool]

Then you'll be up there, sitting on the deck, enjoying a cool one  :)

Did ya see any wildlife this time? Turkeys, etc...? I'm hoping I see a few up at my place.

I was a Lowes last night to buy a drain auger, and picked up a few of the solar "path lights" for $4 each - I figure, no power on the property, but I can have some sort of lighting so I can find my way in the dark, if I have to  ;D  I liked them because the battery is an 'AA' sized rechargeable and is easily replaced so it's not "planned obsolescence"

Hmmm, that reminds me, I should fire up the genset to make sure it's in operating order.

If you're going to be up there the first weekend in May, let me know, we can meet in Omak or Riverside and have a beer and swap stories.



Had 4 deer come through while we were taking a break.  They came up not 100 feet from behind the cabin and walked casually past us and up the hill.

Earlier we'd seen about 20+ throughout the area.

The bear hasn't been around or the cougar so not sure where they are but we did smell garbage Saturday night so it's possible a bruin was cruising past upwind from us.  I'm told by the neighbors that there is a 400 pounder hanging out around them -- they are on the next hill less then a mile away.

No turkey's though :(  But I had my 870 just in case :)  Saw a grouse though and LOTS of grouse mating calls/thumps which is good.  I'm hopeful they have a great mating season :D :D

Not sure which weekends we will be up right not but not this coming :(  Need to heal (back was out a bit) and do some gardening so probably the next and perhaps can manage the 1st weekend of May too :D  Wouldn't mind stopping at the shop in Omak that makes the great milkshakes!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 21, 2010, 08:26:35 AM
Going to have a LOT more time to work on the cabin now ;)

Just got 'riffed' from my job :(

Been here FIVE years and literally built the company but I've been phased out so to speak.

Getting a good separations package and all and we prepared for this over the last few years (because life is what it is) so now I'll spend a little more time working to complete the cabin :)

And looking for work of course!  ;)

Hey, how many Nationally Telecommunications Companies run their Network Operations Centers out of Tonasket? hahahahaha
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 21, 2010, 10:03:54 AM
Sorry to hear that, jarhead ... Glad you got a good severance, tho - that takes some of the sting off, huh?

I'm sure you'll find something fairly quickly - I know I've seen a lot of ads for network people on line.  The first shake in Omak is on me then  ;)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on April 21, 2010, 01:13:20 PM
Bummer 'bout the job.  Seems like a sign of the times, I have a bunch of friends and family members that are "underemployed" right now.  I've been lucky so far, fairly steady comparatively but I've even been practicing my "do you want fries with that" line just in case...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on April 21, 2010, 02:18:47 PM
Sorry to hear that news.  :(  Best of luck of finding something rewarding.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 21, 2010, 08:16:57 PM
Thanks guys!

I may have an opportunity already :)  Our sales director mentioned to an old colleague of mine that I'm on the market and he's asked that I send my resume to him so he can see if he can slot me in somewhere!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed! :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 22, 2010, 06:11:08 AM
That's the way it works these day - a lot!  Hopefully they'll be able to put you into a spot  :D  Meanwhile, what are you doing at the keyboard, shouldn't you be driving up there, or picking up supplies, or something to get it done before you have to go back to work!??! :)

Yeah, it's easy for me to say - and I would have done that myself, if it hadn't been for the idea that I had to actually look for a job, and didn't have money coming in for all those supplies.  One of the most frustrating things for me is not having time (while working), but having the money, then when not working, having the time, but no money for it....   Which is why I put together a building fund savings account  ;D

Speaking of which, I have an interview myself this morning ... gotta go study  :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 22, 2010, 07:25:09 AM
Good luck on the interview!

I'm actually still working (sorta).  I'm employed until the 14th of May since it's a RIF and not a layoff/firing.

I'll get a good separation agreement and my stocks etc so that's going to help and my wife and I worked pretty hard to pay the bills and get ourselves in a better financial spot (doing things like saying no to a new ATV for the property and such).

I also run a website kinda like this one which is recognized as one of the top sites in the world for it's field..and that helps me out by paying for the cabin :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 23, 2010, 09:57:20 PM
ANyone know a good source of Chimney parts?  I'm pricing out what I'll need and locally from the stove to the cover will run about $1600 -- I'm hoping I can get that down a little.

Thoughts?

I've got 14' of SS 6" pipe to run, plus a T, T support, roof support, flashing, extender, wall thimble and more.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on April 26, 2010, 10:01:08 AM
Great pricing and service.  I got all my pipe and fittings from them and saved $ even with the freight charge.
Good luck.

http://www.lindemannchimney.com/
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 27, 2010, 07:52:09 AM
Thanks for the link, I'll check them out!

I just got a call that our Composting toilet arrives tomorrow!  I'm very excited!  I can get it up to the cabin THIS WEEKEND then :D :D :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 27, 2010, 12:49:37 PM
Thanks for the link, I'll check them out!

I just got a call that our Composting toilet arrives tomorrow!  I'm very excited!  I can get it up to the cabin THIS WEEKEND then :D :D :D

Sweet!  That was pretty fast turnaround on your order!

Shakes in Omak on Saturday!  :)

I am planning on leaving at o-dark-thirty on Friday morning  d* and spending the weekend working until I run out of steam, run out of things to do, or just run out  ;)  The plan is to drop a bunch of stuff at the Ranch, and head for the building supply in Okanogan (if they have what I want - gotta call 'em tomorrow) and get back up there and working.

Saturday would be a good day for shakes or coffee, or what not in Omak since I will have to head in to the HD (and wally world) for more supplies
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: diyfrank on April 27, 2010, 01:20:48 PM
What time will you be coming through Omak? We'll be hitting the Starbucks on our way through Saturday morning around 7:00. c*
I'm bringing a load of plywood over and I have some tree's I need to plant.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 27, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Thanks for the link, I'll check them out!

I just got a call that our Composting toilet arrives tomorrow!  I'm very excited!  I can get it up to the cabin THIS WEEKEND then :D :D :D

Sweet!  That was pretty fast turnaround on your order!

Shakes in Omak on Saturday!  :)

I am planning on leaving at o-dark-thirty on Friday morning  d* and spending the weekend working until I run out of steam, run out of things to do, or just run out  ;)  The plan is to drop a bunch of stuff at the Ranch, and head for the building supply in Okanogan (if they have what I want - gotta call 'em tomorrow) and get back up there and working.

Saturday would be a good day for shakes or coffee, or what not in Omak since I will have to head in to the HD (and wally world) for more supplies

Might be able to swing that.  I'm going up Friday afternoon and then might be feeling the need for a break in the afternoon on Sat.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 27, 2010, 05:42:01 PM
What time will you be coming through Omak? We'll be hitting the Starbucks on our way through Saturday morning around 7:00. c*
I'm bringing a load of plywood over and I have some tree's I need to plant.

I'll be going through Friday night and then might be able to make it back Sat afternoon for old fashioned shakes.  My kid will like that. :)

Curlew...I see the signs for there but am uncertain how far away it is....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 27, 2010, 07:32:42 PM
Sounds good!  If you don't call me first, I'll call you Friday afternoon.

diyfrank - I don't think I'd be in town at 7, but I'd probably be there around 10-11 "ish" (yeah, not real early - but it will depend on how tired I am from the night before)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: diyfrank on April 28, 2010, 03:07:54 AM
Curlew...I see the signs for there but am uncertain how far away it is....

Curlew is a hour past Tonasket up 20 to republic then north almost to the border.

Where do you stop for shakes? Tonasket?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 28, 2010, 06:15:58 AM
Curlew...I see the signs for there but am uncertain how far away it is....

Curlew is a hour past Tonasket up 20 to republic then north almost to the border.

Where do you stop for shakes? Tonasket?

Hmmm...there's a place up there we almost bought (until we saw it -- what a mess)....

There is a place in downtown Omak that makes great old fashioned ones.

Republic has a nice little restaurant too actually :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 28, 2010, 10:50:57 AM
Got the Composter and Seat today :D

So this trip we will be bringing up the Composter, Seat and Riser for an outhouse with us :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 28, 2010, 01:11:45 PM
I hope it doesn't turn into a crappy trip for you  ;D

Sorry, I was channeling my dad for a minute....

You'll have to email me the name of the place with the shakes - I can't say I've ever been to anyplace other than the one place (I think it's called The Bread Line) ...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 30, 2010, 07:24:06 AM
It's been a year but going west from Home Depot, cross the hihgway and keep going.  The road will turn to the south and downhill.  One at the bottom of the hill (short distance) you should be in town :)

On the left about 1 1/2 blocks in is a family restaurant with Disney characters and I think trains around the ceiling shelved....they make old fashion shakes.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 01, 2010, 12:44:13 PM
MaGoos I am on my cell so can't add much but we stopped by for lunch at 2
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 02, 2010, 02:50:14 PM
Well, I missed you! I was in town a bit earlier than 2, but would have been able to make it back (needed to make another supply run about that time) c*

Ah well, next time.  I am thinking the weekend of the 15th for my next trip.

Check out my thread in a few minutes for what I actually accomplished!  Decided to head home a bit early for various reasons, which are in my thread.

I'll just have to plan better and make sure that we've connected before the weekend  d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 05, 2010, 07:51:58 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCampics036.jpg&hash=942777c2d064c1093784a81a8e6d865b)
Figuring out where to put things :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 05, 2010, 07:52:36 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCampics015.jpg&hash=8ddb269673013791b5cbc5d01db64779)
Visitors :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 05, 2010, 07:53:43 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCampics032.jpg&hash=bce2c5c98b7fa1e8e31bcc13d09c6170)
Locating where the composter will go
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 07, 2010, 07:33:59 AM
The itch is hard to resist but we're not going up this weekend....too much to do.

However, I bought a shock of ebay for our older ATV for $55 ($25+shipping of $30 from Hawaii) that saved us $300+!!!!!  It was a perfect match too :D

Now we're wating on front shocks and then I'll get a trailer too....they are like little tractors :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 07, 2010, 08:04:41 AM
The itch is hard to resist but we're not going up this weekend....too much to do.

However, I bought a shock of ebay for our older ATV for $55 ($25+shipping of $30 from Hawaii) that saved us $300+!!!!!  It was a perfect match too :D

Now we're wating on front shocks and then I'll get a trailer too....they are like little tractors :)

I hear you on the ATVs - I've been wanting one for a while myself.  I've been looking at them on craigslist, but just don't have the cash for one yet. I think it would make a nice work horse up at my property and with all the various attachments you can get for them these days, I think they'd probably work better in the garden at home than the garden tractor we have, too!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on May 07, 2010, 08:11:46 AM
Ya they are serioius work horses. We used our Honda Forman 400 to drag a 500 lb stump out of the ditch to burn. It was so heavy the quad would barely move it up a steep hill and we had an extra person sitting on the front of the quad for extra traction to the front wheels oh and to steer!  ::)

Love that thing, it drags regular logs with ease.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 07, 2010, 12:05:35 PM
When we were dumb and using credit we bought a Honda Rancher 420 (2007) on the Honda card deal they had going.  We pay that off next month :D

We then had a friend who wanted to sell his 1996 Yamaha Big Bear 350 for $200 and a couch :D :D  [cool]

We bought that and found that it ran like a champ and just needed cosmetic work and tires etc.

Now with everything in it we're still well below $1000!!!  And we've used it for two years of HARD riding and stump pulling :D

We use them to get firewood, haul gear and more.

We plan to get a trailer (or two) and eventually a 750 4x4 with plow etc...but we also enjoy playing on them :)

One nice thing is that it's fast to go to the top of our place where cell coverage can be reached and the kids will drive to the store on them (3 miles of off roading).  Gotta love it
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 14, 2010, 10:53:34 AM
OK we're off in a couple hours to get some more work done -- changed plans because of a job interview I have on Wed (darn it  d* ).

But we ordered the greywater system and will be doing the roofing, toilet and chimney over the next two weeks!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on May 14, 2010, 11:05:19 AM
 [cool] cool, I'm very interested in your grey water system and Chimney, take good photos, hahha. Have a great time, hope the weather over there is as good as it's going to be on the west side!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 18, 2010, 04:41:26 PM
We're back for a day or two then we'll be back at it again for 4 or 5. 

Didn't get much done though :(  Partly because of weather and partly because my old Tendinitis came back for a while (long story short it involves nerve gas and the desert) but then with some good supplements and perseverance we managed to get the composter's floor installed (below grade though it isn't recommended -- more on that later) and did a bit of siding to allow us to finish the composting toilet install.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F05-18-10_0935.jpg&hash=778e79c586b148ac879c63b669df35c5)
I forgot my camera (and cordless drill as well as a few other things) this trip so the cell phone camera was all I had.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F05-18-10_0932.jpg&hash=f830131f8f16b649652db1f54a1ee58c)
What started as a "I only need this much room" project turned into "oh wait but I need MORE" project and involved digging out a 4 foot by 6 foot by 18" deep hole then layering the bottom with 6 mil plastic, dropping pavers down and setting 4x4 PT floor framing and insulation (3/4" white foam that I had laying around) and finally some 3/4" T&G OSB that we treated with green nasty stuff. 

With the 'floor' level we were able to finally get the composter set and the piping roughed in (not glued yet).

Next we'll put in walls and like a root cellar we'll put some 6 mil plastic around the base to protect it a bit and clear the dirt pile from the front (ramp it) so we can get to the drawer etc.

Luckily the composter is designed to be removed if needed so we can always do something more permanent later.  For now this will suffice until we get the covered porch built at which time we'll not have to worry about moisture (which we don't much anyway).

We had to dig a french cesspit for overflow but managed to get that deep enough and finally are ready to complete the install....sheesh!

The interior we realized we had to plumb in Felxpex now as well as any romex so we can insulate and drywall the walls behind the toilet itself.

We hope to have that done on Friday so we can get back to the roof on Saturday....

I need more time though!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 18, 2010, 07:57:17 PM
One thing I'm trying to determine is whether or not I should use a clear sealant/stain on the rough T1-11 before the finish stain or not?

The area we are in gets very little rain (at most 15" a year) and I've seen a lot of exposed OSB that's been out in the open a LONG time and yet still seems to hold it's integrity (in appearance anyway).  Doesn't mean much to me because I will treat our siding but I'm curious at what your thoughts are?

Also I'm looking for that classic siding color that I can only describe as a 'honey' color...if anyone has a picture of what they think it might be (type of stain and color) I'd be grateful.  In the meantime the wife and I will go to Home Depot and pic up a few different stains and see which one we think has the right color for our tastes (light, honey -- we like oak -- type color)....

Cheers
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on May 19, 2010, 01:43:42 AM
One thing I'm trying to determine is whether or not I should use a clear sealant/stain on the rough T1-11 before the finish stain or not?

The area we are in gets very little rain (at most 15" a year) and I've seen a lot of exposed OSB that's been out in the open a LONG time and yet still seems to hold it's integrity (in appearance anyway).  Doesn't mean much to me because I will treat our siding but I'm curious at what your thoughts are?

Also I'm looking for that classic siding color that I can only describe as a 'honey' color...if anyone has a picture of what they think it might be (type of stain and color) I'd be grateful.  In the meantime the wife and I will go to Home Depot and pic up a few different stains and see which one we think has the right color for our tastes (light, honey -- we like oak -- type color)....

Cheers


If you apply a clear sealant prior to the finished stain color it may prevent the stain from doing it's job.  I would reverse the process and apply stain first then sealant.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on May 19, 2010, 05:30:15 AM
One thing I'm trying to determine is whether or not I should use a clear sealant/stain on the rough T1-11 before the finish stain or not?



As John said, but more emphatically. No, no, no.!

A true stain needs to soak into the wood, although those that are made semi-transparent will leave a fair amount of pigment on the surface. Any kind of a clear coat that seals the surface will block staining action.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 19, 2010, 06:06:14 AM
Thanks guys -- I think I misspoke so to speak -- I'd read somewhere (I think JR posted it) that there was a clear treatment for exposed wood siding that should be applied first (or maybe it was in a cabin building book).....

But I suspect it isn't as important as just getting a stain on and sealing it.

I also need to put down some ant bait!  And more mouse traps/bait.  I think there must be a million forest mice and the ants have invaded!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: John Raabe on May 19, 2010, 06:17:49 AM
There are penetrating clear coatings that can also be colored and used as a stain/sealant. This one is a two coat process.

http://www.weatherall.com/1047UVGII.html

If you are using a pure stain, it would go on first before any sealant coating.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on May 19, 2010, 06:19:05 AM
There are clear products that are meant to be applied to wood just before staining. They are usually used on furniture or interior wood. Their purpose is to stop or moderate the blotchiness that sometimes occurs when staining some woods. They ate applied, let to soak in and then wiped dry. The stain is them immediately applied while the prestain is damp.    There may some prestain treatments for logs, but I don't know much about using logs.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: jdejarn on May 19, 2010, 06:31:09 PM
Thanks guys -- I think I misspoke so to speak -- I'd read somewhere (I think JR posted it) that there was a clear treatment for exposed wood siding that should be applied first (or maybe it was in a cabin building book).....

But I suspect it isn't as important as just getting a stain on and sealing it.

I also need to put down some ant bait!  And more mouse traps/bait.  I think there must be a million forest mice and the ants have invaded!

I have been there!!!  At the Ace in town (Tonasket) I have bought Terro spray, and have had great results w/ ants.  I have sprayed twice this year already, and will again this weekend when I go over.  Good luck!!  Those guys are nasty this time of year!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 20, 2010, 07:45:17 AM
Thanks JD

Didn't get the job I was interviewing for so it's back to cabin work!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 20, 2010, 09:27:28 AM
Thanks JD

Didn't get the job I was interviewing for so it's back to cabin work!



At least they told you right away.  Some I've interviewed with lately, seem to forget that it is a common courtesy to simply say, "sorry, we don't think you're a fit"

But, you get more work on the cabin done now! [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 20, 2010, 11:19:14 AM
Thanks JD

Didn't get the job I was interviewing for so it's back to cabin work!



At least they told you right away.  Some I've interviewed with lately, seem to forget that it is a common courtesy to simply say, "sorry, we don't think you're a fit"

But, you get more work on the cabin done now! [cool]

Amen!

I've got BIG plans for the cabin this summer :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Woodswalker on May 20, 2010, 05:12:16 PM
My cabin has rough-sawn fir T1-11 panels for siding.  I stained it last summer with a penetrating oil stain by Olympic, called cedar toner.  Sold at Lowe's in 1 & 5 gal buckets.  This siding really soaks it up.  Think I used 4 gal. to do 16' x 20' cabin.  Gave a color about what you describe.  My place is near L Curlew, so similar climate.  Personally, I intend to just keep repeating the oil stain, and not use any sealant.

My cabin-build thread does not have pics since the siding got stained, but I can send one if you contact me with an email address.  Am enjoying your postings of progress.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 25, 2010, 06:38:13 PM
Just got back today.  Pretty beat but we managed to make it home again safe and sound -- despite 4 or 5 construction projects on roads that didn't need it...hmmmm.....

OK, so we have the composting toilet in and working!!!  Yahoo!  No more bucket!  That's right, we were using a luggable loo for all this time and FINALLY have a toilet and no longer must use a bucket....has it really been THAT long?  Wow!  8 or 9 months!

OK, so we still have work to do -- TONS and TONS but having a toilet is just, well, awesome :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0017.jpg&hash=013362b41ea19b421d5e6980b36049a4)
OK I never said the bathroom was done or anything *chuckle* and yes, we will put the linoleum in later, but for now, we can use the toilet and that's well, provincial (or some such thing).

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 25, 2010, 06:57:47 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0007.jpg&hash=9301a375dcc39b90eec717c6ef3d1f63)

We arrived on Friday with our new ATV trailer and once we were settled in for the next week we assembled our new trailer ($239 t Ranch and Home) and headed into the trailer for the night (we'd left the tent trailer up for the 3 days we were at home so we didn't have to set up much once we arrived).

The next morning while my step son slept in (I let him do that most days) I got up, had coffee and breakfast (fried bacon and eggs and toast) and then loaded up the trailer with dirt from our 'excavation project' for the composting toilet system.  I then towed it over to our easement road and used the dirt to fill in holes in the road.  It helped to smooth it out actually :)

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We also brought in an old tree that someone before us had cut up and left laying there.  It was pretty rotten but I felt we could dry it out and use it for camp fires.  The trailer was a BIG hit (with me anyway) :)  [cool]

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Of course trailering around with ATV's wasn't the main mission and this ought to be evidence that we actually worked!  Yes, it's a picture of a mess *chuckle*.  Sometimes when I'm working away I don't worry about how things look, I just want to get the work done and well, the more tired I am the messier I can be.

So ya, it's a mess, but we got a bunch done and cleaned it up later :)

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From this spot you can get 2-3 bars of Cell coverage!  It's rather amazing since there is NO COVERAGE ANYWHERE near us.  It appears we catch the towers in Omak (about 45 miles by road but more then likely only 20 or so miles line of site) through a gap in the mountains to the south west of us.  Just downright amazing.  I'd heard that sometimes others have found 'secret' spots like this too but it's rare in these parts....I think our land just went up in value ;)

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Cleaning up the wood pile :)  Finally we have one!  We've burned a lot of wood over the winter just trying to keep warm but most of it came from slash piles.  Now with the trailer we intend to get ALL of the good usable wood stacked and dried so next winter we will have LOTS of campfire wood.

For the wood stove we'll start a different pile (and wood shed eventually) for drying/seasoning the firewood for the stove.  I'm told the local ponderosa pine is ok to burn as long as you burn it hot and that's a good thing because while we do have some fir and tamerac we've mostly got ponderosa and a lot of it is in need of removal (maybe 10% of the trees appear sickly or dead).

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The composting bin installed -- temporarily anyway.

We were in a bit of a rush (never should be though) when we did this install but I feel it will hold us for at least a year or two.  It will be completely enclosed in the 'shed' once done and the vent stacks run back to the cabin wall and then up above the eves and as high as I can get them and not have them blown off or look odd -- I want them to work properly.  I also plan to either install piping from the cabin to vent warm air into the composter shed during the winter or install an RV heater in the shed to keep it above 50 during the winter -- at least that's the plan.

We also plan a privy as backup however but honestly, digging this 4 foot by 6 foot by 2 foot 'basement' was darn well enough digging for me!  Sheesh....actually we also dug the overflow trench and french cess pit but that's covered now.

In fact, we even picked up the rocks for the pitt on the easement road after dumping dirt to fill holes....we're talking labor intensive here.

Actually, I'm lying.  I have more holes to dig :(  I have to dig a 41" deep hole for our grey water drain system and then a trench that goes at least 5 feet away from that hole to another that will provide the leaching for the greywater system....and then I have a privy to dig and a root cellar...am I nuts?

Anyway folks...there it is :)  We head back in less then two weeks to try to get the roof done (haven't I heard that before?) oh ya, and I noticed that my neglected post and pier foundation needs work :(  I meant to get more braces in there.....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 04, 2010, 06:55:44 AM
Getting ready to head out again. :)

My list is a mile long but main elements of this trip (besides ducking weather) will be the roof and the foundation.

The weather has been VERY rainy (way more then normal) and 10-15 degrees cooler day after day.  The cool weather is nice but rain makes cabin work - um, wet.

;)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 04, 2010, 08:48:12 AM
Yeah, I'm hoping for dry(er) weather by the time I get up that way on Wednesday.  I noticed that nearest town to my place got 1.49" last Thursday (a week ago) - that's quite unusual from what I've been learning with the historical weather data.  I'm wishing I had my rainfall harvesting set up and working already.

Of course, that would mean the roof would be on the shed, which would mean that for all intent and purpose it would be finished - at least on the outside, and I'm a ways away from that  :(

My plan this time up is to get the 2 walls up that are framed, plus the other two framed, up, and sheathed, and to do the roof - at least the ridge and rafters - hopefully the sheathing, too, and the shingling.  I also have some windows to install.

Ambitious, I know, but if I don't have it planned out, it won't get done.  I've found, the last 2 times up, that I can accomplish what I wanted to way faster than I think.  Then I'm sitting there with nothing to do and I get bored and head home.  So this time, I am going up with a plan to do more than I think I can, and hopefully I will utilize the entire time that I've blocked out!

Maybe we can get together for a lunch or shake this time, if we can get it co-ordinated  ???
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 11, 2010, 06:12:54 PM
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Just a primer :)  Despite rain, hail, lightening and ridiculous weather we managed to get most of the roof on!!!

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We also got the wood stove inside and began the chimney work but more on all of it later.

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on June 12, 2010, 05:29:38 AM
Any tips?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 12, 2010, 05:43:03 AM
Any tips?

On the roofing?  *chuckle* Hmmm.....

We did the roof by the following method which worked nicely:

1.  Have Ryobi 18v cordless drill ready with two new batteries charged (that was a life saver).
2.  Pre drill holes in the panels at once (we stacked all 13 for one side and measured off the holes and marked with a sharpy, then pre-drilled all the holes with a bit smaller then the screws.
3.  Have main roofer climb onto the roof using the roofing ladder (Java you can borrow my hooks when I'm done if you like) and safety harness and position the ladder etc (I tie off my drill to my harness so it won't fall off the steep pitch and cost me a drill).
4.  Nail two nails on the gable edge 1/2" in from edge (depending on roofing material type, some is 1/4" etc) instead of chalking a line because you will find it much easier to square the panel to the roof that way).
5.  Son grabs panel and pushes it up to you, you grab panel and place it onto the roof in approximate place. 
6.  Son climbs ladder and positions panel with correct overhang and placement, you put the first 3 screws in and son goes to get next panel while you screw (in my case top down) the panel off.

I'm no expert and this is the first metal roof I've done but I'm very happy with the system we developed :D  It took us 4 hours to do the first half (26' length by 11' 6" panels) and only 2 1/2 hrs the second half.  It went faster once we got used to it.

The hardest part was the roof dance:

1.  Climb ladder to pitch
2.  sit on pitch
3.  move ladder to right spot
4.  climb down ladder to eve
5.  hoist panel into place
6.  climb ladder to pitch
7.  position panel & screw down panel while climbing down ladder.

Repeat ad nauseam or until roof is done :) :P
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 12, 2010, 08:19:32 AM
OK so here goes.....

After having returned to the USA in 1995 I've worked or gone to school (or served in the Army) all but a few months.  So in 15 years I've NOT collected all but perhaps 3 months worth of Unemployment Insurance despite paying into it often at rates much higher then those who have continuously extended their benefits of late.  So, after being laid off from my high paying (not that high) job I decided to make the system pay me and do some 'deck' work ;)

Then, of course, I didn't understand the system and botched my first weeks claim and lost it when the commies canceled my claim.  Now I'm told, after collecting just one week, that I MUST report at 8:15am to be schooled on how to find a job by Uncle Sam -- or he'll take my money away.

Amazing really, since Uncle Sam hasn't helped me get a job since leaving the Marine Corps in 1991 and that one lasted all of 4 months since the individual I worked for didn't like the military.  Ahhhh such is life.

Anyway, I digress!  I'm taking some time to 'look for work' up in the woods ;)

Josh (step son) and I left for the hills on Friday last and arrived at our site around dinner time.  We got set up and it started to rain so we relaxed in the Tent trailer and hit the hay early.

Saturday we got up and moving (after coffee for me) and pulled the tarp off the roof.  I had a lot of work to do and we hit it hard.

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First step was to plug the last hole in the roof with a sheet of OSB and then to nail off the roof -- I hadn't completed that task when we dropped the lid on and so needed to go back over it all to make sure I hadn't missed anything.

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Once the roof was nailed off (South side) I began to put the 30 lbs felt down on it.  I worked from the top down by not nailing down the bottom 1/2 of the felt and slipping the next row up under the previous one.  This proved very hard on a 12x12 pitch but I got it all but one piece done before the rains came!
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Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 12, 2010, 08:19:50 AM
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By Saturday dinner time I was pretty much done but needed to complete the last row of felt.  That would have to wait as weather wasn't improving.

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Managed to get all but one piece on the South side done and started the North side but the weather was not cooperating.

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A friend of mine stopped out and after enjoying the fire, shooting clay (with 18" security barrel -- talk about fun and challenging) we got back at it and finished off most of the North side.

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And set the little wood stove inside.  It's about two feet right of it's final location.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 12, 2010, 09:21:10 AM
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Before we got too far, however, a hail storm came up and really whollopped us!

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It started looking like winter and the hail was really sounding crazy on the tent trailer.

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Thunder rolled and the rains let loose to really make this June look like winter!

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I caught this pic of the storm over our mountain....it was crazy in there!

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Lightning struck nearby too!  Caused an old stump to burn.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 13, 2010, 05:09:44 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FNeighbor_bear.jpg&hash=8fa73dd4646e6bf31a79b3e28442d819)
The neighbor sent me this picture.  The bird feeder in the tree is 6 feet off the ground.  He's eating from one that is 4 feet up....15 feet from the front door of their cabin.

They decided to stop feeding the birds...er...bears....

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I always carry something when I'm out there.  This is why.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 14, 2010, 05:44:17 AM
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Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 14, 2010, 09:44:50 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FWolforCoyote-1.jpg&hash=95c4417d1972786f9c95d7d2ad8ea81b)
Wolf!

Saw this on the game cam!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ScottA on June 14, 2010, 10:00:28 AM
Congratulations on getting the roof on. Looks good.  :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 15, 2010, 06:02:01 AM
Thanks for the offer of the ridge hooks!  I didn't get everything done that I wanted to this trip, but that's ok.  I really need to find a building partner that can come and stay up there the duration I'm up there.

I wanted to say thanks for the offer to come and help with my walls :).  I hated to turn it down, but I just wasn't far enough along to use it  :(  But eventually we'll have to get together for a coffee, shake, or adult beverage of choice.

I won't get your thread off track here, but I did want to comment that your cabin looks pretty darn good!  Is that all new metal roof? or did you find it on craigslist?  I've been searching for some, but so far haven't found any in my neck of the woods.

The weather was a bit squirrely last weekend.

Oh, and yes, you do have to go to that job hunting "class" ... as if you didn't know how to fill out the claim every week, and your hunt record... I didn't one time and they wanted the money back for that week - even after we got it straightened out.  It's about a half day of listening to someone say most of what you already know, but you get a "job contact" credit for it for that week...  ::)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 19, 2010, 02:06:34 PM
Thanks for the offer of the ridge hooks!  I didn't get everything done that I wanted to this trip, but that's ok.  I really need to find a building partner that can come and stay up there the duration I'm up there.

I wanted to say thanks for the offer to come and help with my walls :).  I hated to turn it down, but I just wasn't far enough along to use it  :(  But eventually we'll have to get together for a coffee, shake, or adult beverage of choice.

I won't get your thread off track here, but I did want to comment that your cabin looks pretty darn good!  Is that all new metal roof? or did you find it on craigslist?  I've been searching for some, but so far haven't found any in my neck of the woods.

The weather was a bit squirrely last weekend.

Oh, and yes, you do have to go to that job hunting "class" ... as if you didn't know how to fill out the claim every week, and your hunt record... I didn't one time and they wanted the money back for that week - even after we got it straightened out.  It's about a half day of listening to someone say most of what you already know, but you get a "job contact" credit for it for that week...  ::)

Yup new roofing.  Deciding to do it all new as long as I could....

Thanks for the tip on UI!  What a crock *chuckle*  you pay in for 25 years and use it for a few months and they act as if you need THEM to teach you how to work another 25 years.....go figure.  (of course, they also probably think you don't pay becuase your employer does -- nonsense, if they didn't have to I'd get it and need it even less).....but I digress.

We'll make that meet sooner or later!  Now, I've got some photo work to do!  My wife and I just returned...from looking for work in Tonasket that is!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 19, 2010, 02:58:11 PM
My wife and I stayed at our cabin site this week and got a fair amount of work done :)  I made sure to go into town pretty much daily to check for local jobs too!  (I was told that when on UI be certain to look for work everywhere you go -- as if I need their assistance -- so I did) anyway...

We arrived on Monday and after getting set up pretty much relaxed for the evening though I think we went out and did a bit of clean up work.  Then on Tuesday we set up the solar system for the well and got pumping water :)
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I mentioned this system in another thread but in a nutshell it's a Costco 60 watt system for about $269 plus Battery (Costco $62 for the 85ah one we got).  We got it because it seemed like an easier option then trying to run wiring from the cabin solar to the well over a long distance.  So far we're pretty happy.

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The well head has two battery cables coming out of it -- like jumper cables -- that you just hook up to a car battery and it starts pumping.  I plan to rig these into a switch on the pump house and run the solar charger full time.  Then all I need to do is send a kid out to flip the switch in the AM and switch it off once the cistern is full or we don't need it anymore.

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The charge controller seems to work pretty well but I can see an ameter in our future (I think -- or something similar to tell me the charge on the battery).

After the well was rigged up we began to cut up dead trees and started a new wood pile.  We decided the weeks long relaxing visit would include a full body workout ;)

These trees had fallen from our neighbors land onto our fence and we decided to help them out (they've all but abandoned their land) by turning them into firewood.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0029.jpg&hash=abbf98164fb53cdfc3f9b961304a9257)


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0031.jpg&hash=3177a8cbb14c969ca0f81a1393befb09)My wife really got into loading up the ATV trailer (we got it at Ranch and Home for $239 and she wants a second now!) and usually had it mostly loaded by the time I was ready to help.  I always need a break after bucking up a tree...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0030.jpg&hash=2a25a7ee5b80704781107906107d1685)
My 16" saw didn't do this in one pass -- took two per cut!  My wife decided I needed a bigger 'logger' saw.  I agreed :D  Seems like a 20" saw is in my future now :D :D [cool]

Truthfully, I need one though!  Some of these trees are hard to fall with a 16" bar!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: John Raabe on June 19, 2010, 04:28:55 PM
I like you inventive system for the pump there!

I'm sure there are updates and refinements to come but you're pumping water without too much cost or hassle.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 19, 2010, 06:12:32 PM
I like you inventive system for the pump there!

I'm sure there are updates and refinements to come but you're pumping water without too much cost or hassle.  :D :D :D

Thanks John :)

I'm planning a pump house but am serious about the idea of making a lazy Susan to rotate the panels. 

Anyway, we did some math and discovered that it wouldn't take long to pay for these panels when figuring the cost of fuel for the generator that was used to charge the battery before :)  And this is MUCH quieter! :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on June 19, 2010, 06:41:46 PM
Good stuff!

Now what would be nice for the pump setup is a low voltage cutoff switch, so you don't have to monitor the battery as much.

Don't know if these would do the job for your pump....   ???

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/sPOD-Low-Voltage-Cutoff-Battery-Protector-p-25220.html (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/sPOD-Low-Voltage-Cutoff-Battery-Protector-p-25220.html)

http://www.smarthome.com/77416/Enforcer-Low-Voltage-Battery-Cut-Off/p.aspx (http://www.smarthome.com/77416/Enforcer-Low-Voltage-Battery-Cut-Off/p.aspx)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on June 19, 2010, 06:56:56 PM
GREAT stuff.  My plan is to drill a well next month so your insights are of great interest to me.

Is that a coyote or one of the hybrid wolves that the WDFW have been chasing around that area.  I've got a friend up in the A valley area that has been dealing with them.  One of them will bait his dog and when he chases him the others ambush em.  They almost got him last month but he managed to scare them off with a few shots.  Those hybrids and the cats have been real hard on the calves this year too. 

BBQ's and bird feeders = Bears.  A neighbor of ours came back from a walk to find a bear making himself comfy on their porch.  Took a posse of neighbors to chase him off.  If'n he don't get spooked by folks soon he may end up on one of those barbecues he's been raiding.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on June 19, 2010, 07:09:01 PM
hummingbird feeders = bear "soda pop"    ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2010, 05:09:55 AM
Good stuff!

Now what would be nice for the pump setup is a low voltage cutoff switch, so you don't have to monitor the battery as much.

Don't know if these would do the job for your pump....   ???

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/sPOD-Low-Voltage-Cutoff-Battery-Protector-p-25220.html (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/sPOD-Low-Voltage-Cutoff-Battery-Protector-p-25220.html)

http://www.smarthome.com/77416/Enforcer-Low-Voltage-Battery-Cut-Off/p.aspx (http://www.smarthome.com/77416/Enforcer-Low-Voltage-Battery-Cut-Off/p.aspx)



Thanks Don, that might be something I could look into.  I can't run the pump all the time however, or the cistern would over flow.  But something like this would mean I could forget about the battery and it would prevent it from draining too low all the time.  I might add one inline with the on/off switch.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2010, 05:16:55 AM
GREAT stuff.  My plan is to drill a well next month so your insights are of great interest to me.

Is that a coyote or one of the hybrid wolves that the WDFW have been chasing around that area.  I've got a friend up in the A valley area that has been dealing with them.  One of them will bait his dog and when he chases him the others ambush em.  They almost got him last month but he managed to scare them off with a few shots.  Those hybrids and the cats have been real hard on the calves this year too. 

BBQ's and bird feeders = Bears.  A neighbor of ours came back from a walk to find a bear making himself comfy on their porch.  Took a posse of neighbors to chase him off.  If'n he don't get spooked by folks soon he may end up on one of those barbecues he's been raiding.

When I first saw the picture of the wolf I though "is that a big coyote" but then I did some research (since it's been a while since I've seen one -- though remind me later and I'll tell the story of the 3 wolves that visited us in Ocean Falls).  Once I did some comparison pictures of coyote and wolf I realized this one was a wolf but something about it made me wonder still....hence the picture name is 'WolforCoyote'.

I'd be interested in information about the hybrids?  I've seen (we had once) wolf/dog crosses but usually they don't look so pure.  In any case, wolves eat dogs and cats if the deer population is low and ini general wolves and cats (and bears) pretty much decimate the local bird and deer pop :(

As for bears (knock on wood) we've been fortunate so far but I think they don't like all the noise (ATV's and shooting).  I could be wrong however.  I've heard, in fact, that one ate a porta-pot recently and that worries me since the composter is pretty spendy!  I'd hate to come back and find it munched so if it survives the next few weeks I'm building a 'bear stopper' for it.

You see, bears can go through steel so you can't really build a bear proof anything except you CAN accidentally leave a very nailed up piece of plywood in front of what you don't want them to get...they step on it, go OUCH, and leave.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2010, 06:13:08 AM
GREAT stuff.  My plan is to drill a well next month so your insights are of great interest to me.



Our well was done several years ago by a previous owner but I contacted the well driller and discussed the well.  He actually remembered it.

Anyway, it's 205' deep and provided 2.5gpm of flow which I was told was about average for a residential well in the area though he told me it was shallow compared to some out there!  Apparently it is not uncommon to get 1.5 to 4 gpm in the area so I'd be curious to find out what you get.

When ours was done the owner put in a cistern which his son-in-law (the owner passed away after selling to the owner before us) tells me was a 'plastic' 1000 gallon cistern that's about 50-70 feet above the well head.  The well has a 12vdc pump in it (perhaps it's really 24vdc but I haven't checked yet) and seems to pump something like 1/2gpm to 1 1/2gpm into the cistern though I have no real idea.  I base this only on our recent experience in that we drained the cistern pretty dry then pumped for an hour or so and easily had the 26 gallons for the trailer and 5 for the bathroom plus more.  Over the course of the week I'd pump for a couple hours and each time the pressure at the spicket increased a little.  We used a LOT of water (my wife decided NOT to conserve to test the wells ability to keep up) and we always had enough water in the cistern.

I plan to run some real tests once I uncover the manhole to get into the tank which I'm told does exist -- it's just burried at the moment.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on June 20, 2010, 06:33:49 AM
I copied that picture and sent it to my friend just down the hill from you to get his feedback.  He's become quite the canine expert since he moved out there full time a four years ago.

"Officially" we only have two packs in this state...   ???
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2010, 04:56:37 PM
I copied that picture and sent it to my friend just down the hill from you to get his feedback.  He's become quite the canine expert since he moved out there full time a four years ago.

"Officially" we only have two packs in this state...   ???

Cool -- I'd be interested in the feedback.  I have coyote pics too but they don't look like that.  They are smaller with different markings and shape.

On a different subject my wife and I bought a Husqvarna 455 Rancher today! :D  [cool]  The Craftsman 16" saw might be good for smaller trees and limb work but I needed something a little better for falling larger trees and bucking up trees for firewood.  We looked at the Poulan Pro but decided it 'felt' too cheap and went with the Husky.

My bro in Canada then told me his Husky is 25 years old and though he recently tuned it up it's run like a champ for 25 years!  :o  I'm thinking it was $400 well spent dollars.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: dug on June 20, 2010, 05:08:23 PM
Speaking for myself at least, it really doesn't get a whole lot better than a brand spankin new saw. And a Husky to boot!  [cool]

Went through half a dozen tanks on my 026 yesterday and am contentedly fried. Great fun!

Happy cutting!  ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on June 20, 2010, 06:30:37 PM
My friend couldn't be sure by that picture but he felt it certainly could be a wolf.  He says the hybrids only differ in the ears and tail as well as being more bold near humans.

I suspect Wolf pressure is what is driving more Elk (according to the long time residents I've spoken with) into the Okanogan valley.  A rancher said that his open range cattle are getting a lot more wild (dangerous) in the last two years.  My brother-in-law's best friend is a game officer and when I asked him about it he just shook his head and said there have been some "incidents" in the area but wouldn't (couldn't?) elaborate.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2010, 07:16:06 PM
I went back and looked for the pics of the Coyotes that the cam got and cropped the two together.  They are the same resolution from the same camera and almost in the same spot -- distance to camera isn't the same but it isn't too far apart either.

The result?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FWolfandCoyote.jpg&hash=585ee051c1fa0ae64e949dfd7da97a1e)

The Coyote has a bushy tail and slightly different posture (typical yote) and the wolf, well it's just taller and not slinking with a thinner tail and more regal posture.

many have a hard time telling them apart but I think this shows a difference that suggests the one on the left is in fact a wolf.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
Though the look a LOT like the same animal I don't think they are -- what do you all think?

The coyote has a pointy snout that the one on the left doesn't seem to have but the color (black and white makes it hard) and haunches look pretty much the same.

However, the posture and size don't match and the tail appears completely different though hard to see.  Also, the wolf (left) has a longer neck -- that is normal from other wolves I've seen -- or appears to.

HOWEVER this could be the same animal and the posture is just chance -- so I'm still not 100% sure...it could be that they are the same coyote and that the left picture is just an illusion because of posture.

Dilema!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on June 21, 2010, 03:14:39 AM
I'm starting to think its just a well fed Coyote.

Some good Wolf info here: http://washingtonwolf.info/ (http://washingtonwolf.info/)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 21, 2010, 05:58:19 AM
I'm starting to think its just a well fed Coyote.

Some good Wolf info here: http://washingtonwolf.info/ (http://washingtonwolf.info/)

Looking at that site I'd say it could still be a wolf.  Lots of pics that looks very similar and there is at least one in Okanogan county on there.

Either way, I've heard there is a lone wolf running around from one of the neighbors and I've set up my cam on a very distinct game trail to see what might show up :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Woodswalker on June 21, 2010, 06:36:07 AM
I hunted deer in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area of MN for over 30 yrs, and observed wolves there many times.  Have also observed coyotes many times out here, including an adult male that I shot last summer at the cabin.  Adult wolves are about twice the size of adult coyotes, and colors/markings vary greatly.  In my opinion, you've got a couple of coyote pics.

I find attitudes out here about wolves vary puzzling.  MN has been managing a viable wolf population of 1500-2,000 for several decades, without significant impacts on the deer population.  When my father hunted the same area of the BWCA in the 50's & 60's, there were few wolves left, and few deer in that area.  After federal protection, the wolf population came back, as did the deer.  Best hunt I experienced there in 30+ years was in '92, when we got 7 deer, 6 of them bucks.  Largest one is on my wall.  I welcome wolves back to WA.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 21, 2010, 07:43:23 AM
I hunted deer in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area of MN for over 30 yrs, and observed wolves there many times.  Have also observed coyotes many times out here, including an adult male that I shot last summer at the cabin.  Adult wolves are about twice the size of adult coyotes, and colors/markings vary greatly.  In my opinion, you've got a couple of coyote pics.

I find attitudes out here about wolves vary puzzling.  MN has been managing a viable wolf population of 1500-2,000 for several decades, without significant impacts on the deer population.  When my father hunted the same area of the BWCA in the 50's & 60's, there were few wolves left, and few deer in that area.  After federal protection, the wolf population came back, as did the deer.  Best hunt I experienced there in 30+ years was in '92, when we got 7 deer, 6 of them bucks.  Largest one is on my wall.  I welcome wolves back to WA.

I suspect you are correct though the picture doesn't show size since the camera isn't shooting the same direction.  I'm leaning coyote myself actually.

As for attitude toward wolves in WA I think it has more to do with policy then the animal.  WA Wolf re-intro policies go far far beyond other states and while that might be ok, one never knows.  My experience with Government tells me that they will mess it up -- they always do -- so it's more then likely going to be a miserable failure one way or another.

As for wolves, I grew up with them around me and I don't have animosity towards them anymore then bear or cougar -- actually, bears piss me off but that's another story -- however I find it hard to beleive that increasing wolf populations will increase deer population.  That's nonsense.

In fact, records indicate that when wolves roamed the NW before Lewis and Clark came along, game was scarce compared to today.  This is not so hard to understand:

1.  Wolves eat deer and elk
2.  Coyotes eat deer (a male coyote will eat two fawns a year)
3.  Cougars eat deer and elk

The more carnivores you introduce to an area the less herbivores you end up with -- that DOES NOT mean you won't have a LOT of deer around though.  You see, the problem is that there are too many factors involved to assume that wolves alone will increase or decrease the overall population of deer.  Some factors involved:

1.  Winter -- cold winters = lower survival rate of deer
2.  Summer -- summer weather and growing seasons will impact herd sizes
3.  Drought -- less rainfall = less deer, becuase it means less forest fauna growth
4.  Wildfire -- this can impact deer populations
5.  Construction -- sometimes deer do very well in the suburbs -- in fact, it can increase the herds because of the LACK of predatory animals around (bow hunting has become popular in the suburbs back east because of this).
6.  Hunting pressure -- poor management of hunting areas can reduce herd sizes significantly.  Recently in WA a report came out about Elk population in the Blues.  The Tucannon herd was about 2000 animals until they changes the policy to only allow spike bulls to be taken.  They intended to increase herd size and now they have about 500 animals.

There is so much more involved.

I lived on Vancouver Island where they pretty much stopped hunting wolves and by the early 80's wolf populations were growing at a rate never seen before.  Something like 750 known packs by 1982.  Deer populations were fine and remained so.  Why?  Becuase the deer population would support larger numbers of wolves easily.  This is the key.

In Ocean Falls during a specially cold winter 3 timber wolves at 19 cats and 17 dogs around town (a town of under 1000 people) until they were killed -- because the town feared they would start eating kids when the dog and cat pop dwindled far enough.

Ranchers learn the hard way that wolves eat cows.

Personally, I don't like Coyotes at all but love wolves and my favorite book as a kid was Joseph Warton Lippencots "Wilderness Champion" -- King was the man!  Er Wolf!  And Reddy!  What a dog :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on June 21, 2010, 07:58:34 AM
I welcome wolves back to WA.

I do to so long as "management" is on the table.  Sadly those making the rules aren't the ones affected.  This year Seattle had both Bears and a cougar to deal with.  Of course when they show up in their neighborhoods eating their pets it's OK to do something about it.  Don't much care for the double standard myself.

I can certainly understand the Ranchers concerns too.  Wolf pressure on free range stock gets makes them wilder which is a concern to me as my property is in open range territory and I have six acres of meadow that attract them.  Never had much of a problem with em and they do a good job mowing and fertilizing...  I'd rather deal with 300 pound Bears than a herd of spooky cattle though - makes riding my mountain bike dangerous.  Last year had a bull try to gore my dog just off the steps of my place.  She's older now and wasn't able to evade the attack.  She took a tumble before my wife was able to drive it off.  Didn't give it much thought at the time figuring it was just bad timing and a ornery SOB.  Not so sure anymore.

I personally like having critters on my place.  They are usually among the highlights of our stays there.  In my forest management plan habitat is the priority.  I'm hoping the Wolves push some Elk down my way, especially in September  :)

The re-introduction of the Wolf will no doubt improve the health of ungulates in our area but it is a fact that there are other deleterious issues with their return need to be addressed as well.  So long as it isn't only the Disney channel perspective ruling the land, I say "welcome back."    
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 21, 2010, 09:03:59 AM
Well said Yonder

OK, it's time to get back on topic!

Does anyone have a good source for shiplap or T&G pine paneling for the interior?  I'm looking around and trying to find the best prices.

Also, um, I'm dying!  I've been home two days and um.....I need to get back to work at the cabin!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 22, 2010, 07:41:08 AM
OK I'm getting ready to do some ordering and need opinions -- I've decided to post here in my cabin thread rather then the Off Grid Systems thread to keep it on track.

This system I found AFTER using Don's spreadsheet to design my own was almost EXACTLY what I was designing -- DISCLAIMER***  I am NOT buying this system *** -- and I wanted to post for comparison and to show where I got certain ideas in mine.

http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=615_watt_off_grid_system      
615 Watt Systems    $5.14 Per Watt
QTY.       DESCRIPTION    UNIT PRICE       AMOUNT    
3       Sun A-205-fa3 205W Solar Module    $ 356.70       $ 1,070.10    
1       Xantrex C40 Charge Controller    $ 145.00       $ 145.00    
1       PV3 Combiner Box    $ 79.00       $ 79.00    
1       20Amp PV Breaker    $ 15.00       $ 15.00    
1       MC4 30' Solar Module Cable    $ 37.00       $ 37.00    
1       Delta LA302DC Lightning Arrestor    $ 40.00       $ 40.00    
1       MNDC250, 250Amp DC Disconnect    $ 155.00       $ 155.00    
2       60Amp Din Mounted DC Circuit Breaker    $ 25.00       $ 50.00    
1       Xantrex TR1524 1.5KW 24Vdc Inverter/Charger    $ 698.00       $ 698.00    
8       US Power U225 6V 225Ah Deep Cycle Battery    $ 95.00       $ 760.00    
8       BC1 2/0 Battery Cable    $ 8.00       $ 64.00    
2       BC5 2/0 Inverter Cable    $ 25.00       $ 50.00    
                  
         Shipping:          
         Total       $ 3,163.10    

OK so here's my system:

No.   Item   Cost   Qty   Total
1   Costco GCB                                   $88            6   $528
2   SUN SV-X-200                           $364.00    3   $1,092
3   SUN-1012 Sinewave Inverter           $291.67    1   $292
4   Xantrex C40 Charge Controller   $111.18    1   $111
5   MC-4 50 foot cable                   $43.86    1   $44
6   PV Combiner Box                           $79.00    1   $79
7   Delta LA302DC Lightning Arrestor   $40.00    1   $40
8   60Amp Din Mounted DC Circuit Breaker   $25.00    2   $50
9   BC1 2/0 Battery Cable                   $8.00    10   $80
10   BC5 2/0 Inverter Cable                   $42.54    2   $85
11   20Amp PV Breaker                   $10.40    1   $10
12   Midnite Solar MNDC250             $188.00    1   $188
                                              Total --    $2,599

Some questions:

1.  Can anyone provide me with a better idea on a PV Combiner Box?
2.  Do I really need a 250amp Disconnect?  I thought Don mentioned 50amps before.
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34&products_id=349
3.  I plan to make my own battery cables to save a few bucks - I'll check local elec suppliers for 2/0
4.  Not sure I'd need a 20amp PV breaker??  I'll have to check the panels again.

All parts and prices are from the same source (for convenience) and I'm interested in better sources and prices from anyone who has them.

Thanks!
Erik

Charge Controller
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=33
Disconnect
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34&products_id=349
Inverter
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_40&products_id=788
Solar Panels
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=810
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 24, 2010, 06:19:21 AM
It's quiet in here these days!  I know you're all out at your cabins and I'm stuck at home waiting to get back to mine...it's a killer!  But I'll do some work around the house to stay sane.  Besides, I've got to wait for a boat load of gear to come in!!!  We ordered a Granberg Small Log Alaskan Mill and I bought a Husqvarna 455 Rancher saw (mentioned elsewhere here) as well as all kinds of milling and sawing tools and essentials.  Then I bought all that solar power stuff including the charger and inverter mentioned in another thread as well as a tennon cutter setup to make furniture and railings.

So ya, I'm bored because I'm not at the cabin working and I'm now unemployed and work appears to be rather ahem, hard to find these days, but I figure if I can get the garden in shape and put some vents in the shed I'll at least feel somewhat productive at home.

Maybe I'll make some soap and some cheese to occupy myself.....

Oh and I have a plan to prevent boredom when not at the cabin now! :D  I'm going to bring rounds, slabs and branches back home next time as well as the tennon cutter setup and then I can make furniture when I'm at home and not at the cabin :)

That's the plan anyway.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: fishing_guy on June 24, 2010, 08:21:23 AM
Let me know how that chainsaw/mill combination works fo you.  I have that saw already, and have some pine and birch I'ld like to use for more than firewood.

Thanks
John
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 25, 2010, 11:01:09 AM
It's quiet in here these days!  I know you're all out at your cabins and I'm stuck at home waiting to get back to mine...it's a killer!  But I'll do some work around the house to stay sane.  Besides, I've got to wait for a boat load of gear to come in!!!  We ordered a Granberg Small Log Alaskan Mill and I bought a Husqvarna 455 Rancher saw (mentioned elsewhere here) as well as all kinds of milling and sawing tools and essentials.  Then I bought all that solar power stuff including the charger and inverter mentioned in another thread as well as a tennon cutter setup to make furniture and railings.


Wish I had connected with you - you could have borrowed my Granberg Small mill for a bit to see how you like it.  It's brand new, and I haven't even attached my saw to it yet.  I was planning to last time I was up there, but got a bit lazy in that department.

The plan currently is to head up there on Monday (the 28th) and stay through Friday morning/noon-ish.  I am bringing some scaffolding to put up the rafters and then we'll see about the roof sheathing and anything else I can get finished.

Glad to hear you are progressing along well.  If you don't mind, can I ask how much you paid for the roofing (the steel) ?  I'm in the debate mode right now and want to try to come up with a better answer before the end of the weekend.

Also, I was wondering what well driller put in your well? I've had one bid so far for a well on my place, but I really think it's outrageous.  I think he included the "wet side" surcharge... d* (if you know what I mean)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 25, 2010, 11:06:14 AM
It's quiet in here these days!  I know you're all out at your cabins and I'm stuck at home waiting to get back to mine...it's a killer!  But I'll do some work around the house to stay sane.  Besides, I've got to wait for a boat load of gear to come in!!!  We ordered a Granberg Small Log Alaskan Mill and I bought a Husqvarna 455 Rancher saw (mentioned elsewhere here) as well as all kinds of milling and sawing tools and essentials.  Then I bought all that solar power stuff including the charger and inverter mentioned in another thread as well as a tennon cutter setup to make furniture and railings.


Wish I had connected with you - you could have borrowed my Granberg Small mill for a bit to see how you like it.  It's brand new, and I haven't even attached my saw to it yet.  I was planning to last time I was up there, but got a bit lazy in that department.

The plan currently is to head up there on Monday (the 28th) and stay through Friday morning/noon-ish.  I am bringing some scaffolding to put up the rafters and then we'll see about the roof sheathing and anything else I can get finished.

Glad to hear you are progressing along well.  If you don't mind, can I ask how much you paid for the roofing (the steel) ?  I'm in the debate mode right now and want to try to come up with a better answer before the end of the weekend.

Also, I was wondering what well driller put in your well? I've had one bid so far for a well on my place, but I really think it's outrageous.  I think he included the "wet side" surcharge... d* (if you know what I mean)

Got our roofing from Do It Right Builders wharehouse in Tonasket.  Their prices were better then the big box stores every time.  I got my windows there too -- gain, cheaper then the big boys.

The well was drilled about 7 years ago so I don't know what it cost but I can check the driller for you.

As for the granberg -- now that's funny!  Mine arrives today!  Together, perhaps, we'll be milling lumber like crazy!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 25, 2010, 12:17:40 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FInverterandCharger.jpg&hash=ed96e9972b5bbaed41aa57d3af8238a8)
FedEx dropped this off today :)  FAST shipping.  Came with wires prepped for install (thanks Inverter Store) free of charge.

What a MONSTER!  I'm absolutely floored at the size and weight of this thing...sheesh.  OK I knew a solar power system needed an inverter that might last longer then your typical car unit but wasn't expecting this monster.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 25, 2010, 03:21:33 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FInverterandCharger.jpg&hash=ed96e9972b5bbaed41aa57d3af8238a8)
FedEx dropped this off today :)  FAST shipping.  Came with wires prepped for install (thanks Inverter Store) free of charge.

What a MONSTER!  I'm absolutely floored at the size and weight of this thing...sheesh.  OK I knew a solar power system needed an inverter that might last longer then your typical car unit but wasn't expecting this monster.

Tell me that those wires showing on the top of the box aren't the ones that go into the 2500W inverter!  There is no way they will carry slightly over 208 amps DC (under full load - and that's just for the output, not to mention the couple amps for the internal electronics).  How many amps does the manual say that thing draws under full load? ... of course it might simply be rated at 70.7% of DC current at full load, which would only be about 145 amps :o  I'd guess that the wire would be something close to the size of a regular battery cable.  Very cool that they sent them with the ends prepped  [cool]

Yeah, I know it won't be run under full load - at least not often and not for more than a couple seconds, but you'll need to have hefty wire, and short runs from battery to inverter to minimize the voltage drop.

Is that a "modified sine wave" inverter?

Very cool, tho.  That should just about power anything you'd want it to (except the beer cooler). :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on June 25, 2010, 04:06:28 PM

What a MONSTER!  I'm absolutely floored at the size and weight of this thing...sheesh.  


If that impresses you how about the Outback VFX3524M (mine). 62 lbs.



javaman, no offense to you, but that's square wave, maybe a modified square wave. Sine waves are curves, no corners. "Modified" is adman talk. At best they should be named as being a stepped wave.

But for a lot of purposes they work well enough especially when price is factored in.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq305%2Fdjmbucket%2Foddsnends01%2Fsquare_modified_sinewave.jpg&hash=85dba1d4a8d4ee2a747e0b0da34b4b7f)

I liken the difference to stomping on the gas and then stomping on the brakes instead a smoother application of gas and brakes like a good road racer. Or letting the door slam shut instead of having a hydraulic closer smooth it out. Motors prefer being treated smoothly instead of being slammed.



Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 25, 2010, 06:08:19 PM

Tell me that those wires showing on the top of the box aren't the ones that go into the 2500W inverter!  There is no way they will carry slightly over 208 amps DC (under full load - and that's just for the output, not to mention the couple amps for the internal electronics).  How many amps does the manual say that thing draws under full load? ... of course it might simply be rated at 70.7% of DC current at full load, which would only be about 145 amps :o  I'd guess that the wire would be something close to the size of a regular battery cable.  Very cool that they sent them with the ends prepped  [cool]

Yeah, I know it won't be run under full load - at least not often and not for more than a couple seconds, but you'll need to have hefty wire, and short runs from battery to inverter to minimize the voltage drop.

Is that a "modified sine wave" inverter?

Very cool, tho.  That should just about power anything you'd want it to (except the beer cooler). :)

The recommended battery cables are 1/0 which those don't appear to be -- but I haven't looked close enough to them to be sure.

And yes, it's a modified sine wave inverter.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 25, 2010, 06:12:09 PM

What a MONSTER!  I'm absolutely floored at the size and weight of this thing...sheesh.  


If that impresses you how about the Outback VFX3524M (mine). 62 lbs.



javaman, no offense to you, but that's square wave, maybe a modified square wave. Sine waves are curves, no corners. "Modified" is adman talk. At best they should be named as being a stepped wave.

But for a lot of purposes they work well enough especially when price is factored in.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq305%2Fdjmbucket%2Foddsnends01%2Fsquare_modified_sinewave.jpg&hash=85dba1d4a8d4ee2a747e0b0da34b4b7f)

I liken the difference to stomping on the gas and then stomping on the brakes instead a smoother application of gas and brakes like a good road racer. Or letting the door slam shut instead of having a hydraulic closer smooth it out. Motors prefer being treated smoothly instead of being slammed.





*chuckle* Of course that is correct but for laymens terms and how they sell the products they are listed as Modified Sine Wave.

Quote
Specifications

    * Continuous output power: 2500 Watts. Use our 200 amp inline fuse.
    * Surge power capability (peak power): 5000 Watts
    * dc input / operating voltage: 10 to 15 Volts
    * Output voltage: 120 Volts ac +/- 10%
    * Output wave form: modified sine wave with phase correction
    * Output frequency: 60 Hz +/- 1 Hz
    * Battery low voltage alarm: 10.5 +/- 0.5 Volts
    * Battery low voltage shutdown: 10.0 +/- 0.5 Volts
    * AC amps: 21
    * DC amps: 208
    * No load current: .45 Amps
    * Full load efficiency: 90%
    * 1/3 load efficiency: 95%
    * No load minimum operating temperature: -15 degrees Celsius
    * Full load maximum operating temperature: 55 +/- 5 degrees Celsius (automatic shutdown)
    * AC Output Socket Type: dual Type 2 -3 prong
    * High input voltage protection: 15V-17V
    * Low input voltage shutdown: 10V
    * Internal fuse protection · Product size (L x W x H): 15”X 10.25”X 3”
    * Weight: 14
    * UL maximum recommended per outlet 1500W

On a side note, Modified Sine inverters can't run everything a Pure Sine inverter will but from my neighbors experience they will pretty much run everything you might need except maybe that lithium battery charger or high end microwave....oh sure, there are other devices but at $229 I decided to go this route and have the full 2500 watts of power.  If in the future I can afford a pure sine inverter I'll get one but for now I think this will work.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 26, 2010, 05:13:59 AM

What a MONSTER!  I'm absolutely floored at the size and weight of this thing...sheesh.  


If that impresses you how about the Outback VFX3524M (mine). 62 lbs.



javaman, no offense to you, but that's square wave, maybe a modified square wave. Sine waves are curves, no corners. "Modified" is adman talk. At best they should be named as being a stepped wave.

But for a lot of purposes they work well enough especially when price is factored in.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq305%2Fdjmbucket%2Foddsnends01%2Fsquare_modified_sinewave.jpg&hash=85dba1d4a8d4ee2a747e0b0da34b4b7f)

I liken the difference to stomping on the gas and then stomping on the brakes instead a smoother application of gas and brakes like a good road racer. Or letting the door slam shut instead of having a hydraulic closer smooth it out. Motors prefer being treated smoothly instead of being slammed.

Don, no offense taken.  It's been close to 20 years since I was involved in inverter design.  Modified square wave was indeed what I actually meant  d*  My team had come up with a unique method of generating an actual sine wave inverter, but had troubles with the output FETs blowing.  We were trying to power a small refrigerator (like the size of a hotel 'fridge or dorm room fridge).  Ah, the good ol' days  :)

One of the advantages from a design perspective is that you really have no zero-crossing worries with the modified sine wave.  Plus the output devices are running at somewhere around 50% duty cycle, which helps keep them cool.

But as you point out, Don, they can be very rough on some appliances - especially those with motors in them.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 26, 2010, 02:32:08 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0091.jpg&hash=280ed65ad21454107f04081264b97043)
Got the mill assembled today :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0089.jpg&hash=9d664652b0311a4f22fdfe5307cb1da7)
And mounted it to the saw.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0090.jpg&hash=a3e7f67bb73950a763453fdaac6daef7)
Another shot.

I also bought two ripping chains and other goodies I think I mentioned earlier.

I look forward to trying to make lumber.

Some of the things I want to make:

1.  Blue Stained 1x6 or 1x8 siding for the shed -- plan to use old logs for this as I think they will be blue stained already and very dry (they seemed pretty dry anyway).

2.  1x6 interior knotty pine paneling.

3.  2x4 and 2x6 lumber for sheds, pump house, battery box etc etc

4.  4x4, 6x6 and/or 6x8 pine beams for deck

I'll have to look span tables up but I'm hoping a 6x8 beam made of pine will work for the deck.  I've got some LONG Ponderosa's out there and I read somewhere they are used becuase of their clear and straight trunks when they are tall.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 27, 2010, 05:56:34 AM
The angle on that second picture makes it look like you switched bars on that saw  :D  That looks about the same size as my Stihl - actually the wife's Stihl... long story on that one - I'll tell it to you sometime over coffee...

I still want to take my torque wrench to the mill and make certain that all the nuts and bolts are tightened to spec, but I think it's pretty good.

I hadn't thought of making siding out of the fallen trees around here ... I was wondering what I was going to side the place with!  Thanks for that idea!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 27, 2010, 07:15:03 AM
The angle on that second picture makes it look like you switched bars on that saw  :D  That looks about the same size as my Stihl - actually the wife's Stihl... long story on that one - I'll tell it to you sometime over coffee...

I still want to take my torque wrench to the mill and make certain that all the nuts and bolts are tightened to spec, but I think it's pretty good.

I hadn't thought of making siding out of the fallen trees around here ... I was wondering what I was going to side the place with!  Thanks for that idea!

Nah optical illusion.  20" bar in all pics

I'm going to make siding and more if the setup works ok and if it does I might buy a bigger saw and a bigger mill ;) or a bandsaw mill if tax return is good ;)

I want to make ALL the lumber I need!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 27, 2010, 08:57:13 AM
Yeah, I bought mine because I needed something fairly "soon" and didn't want to wait until I saved enough for a bandsaw mill, which I will purchase once I stop spending money on the cabin for a bit and can save up for one.

Just missed one on Craigslist for about $700 without the engine ... so I know they can be had at a reasonable price, if I simply wait for it.

I picked up a door yesterday, and am pretty much loaded up and ready for tomorrow morning.  Are you heading up to your place anytime soon?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 27, 2010, 10:14:30 AM
Yeah, I bought mine because I needed something fairly "soon" and didn't want to wait until I saved enough for a bandsaw mill, which I will purchase once I stop spending money on the cabin for a bit and can save up for one.

Just missed one on Craigslist for about $700 without the engine ... so I know they can be had at a reasonable price, if I simply wait for it.

I picked up a door yesterday, and am pretty much loaded up and ready for tomorrow morning.  Are you heading up to your place anytime soon?

Going up the 2nd I think.  Plan to stay to the 6th and then return the 14th or 15th for a week long stay.

Then it's hard to say.  Being home is killing me because I can work on the cabin, can't mill lumber and can't make furniture so the next trip I'm cutting 3" rounds for end tables, some slabs for coffee table (s) and some legs.  I'll bring it all home and finish them here with the tenon cutter and Forstner bits.  My hope is to make burl like end and coffee tables out of pine slabs and rounds and then see where that takes me....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 05, 2010, 08:35:20 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0030-1.jpg&hash=04e56714c04e44aff1429035ceb4308c)
Last trip we left these trees and planned to buck them into firewood on our next visit however....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0001-2.jpg&hash=b164a276ea08c4712915e9e7daac3b66)
We bucked them into 8' and 6' (1) logs for milling instead.

I figured it was best to practice on old crappy dry logs before tackling something more worthwhile -- didn't want to mess up potential interior paneling!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0006-2.jpg&hash=46232921ac4c4abab1f9773a0cd5b199)
We set up the new sawmill (Granbergs Small Log Alaskan Mill) and began making a cant.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0012.jpg&hash=4d27f3adb818420945a87a188e00cb2c)
Cutting the 2nd pass -- bottom of cant.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0016.jpg&hash=d7602d894fa584505fde8a9348cfe290)
One more pass and we can mill lumber.

The boys did the heavy lifting and I did the milling.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0019.jpg&hash=f4e226ab9452c672b2f914ef4350ae44)
First cant ready to mill into lumber.  I cut too much off of it but learned by my mistake.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0021.jpg&hash=f91a3c6ec57cdbc1404efea578544386)
1st board -- a 1x6.

Later I cut some 1x8 (same size log better planning) and we used the wood to side the shed.  I'll post more tomorrow but it's time for sleep!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 05, 2010, 09:28:53 PM
While waiting for my sinuses to clear I decided to toss these up too:)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0046-1.jpg&hash=8c30e8620cf310d1a540b8d3dd9f7e3d)
We cut 10 boards before needing to sharpen the chains but I didn't have the right size file so had to stop :(

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0054-2.jpg&hash=a5f4768a4e124bd44dc454c266121a2f)
So we used the lumber to side the old shed.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0056-2.jpg&hash=5612b01a03fb14928aeaf52dd08c408e)
I think the boys enjoy this kind of work far more then the rest...specially with the gun.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0083-1.jpg&hash=4545338426c255c35e96f45f5dd000e9)
I can't wait to mill this tree!  I cut 4 logs out of it ranging from 20 inches across to about 15.  I'll try to pull the rest of it out of the fence and off the pond (it's not in the pond but resting over it) and get a few more logs out of it.  I think the stained pine looks awesome and will make great interior panel plus perhaps floor.

I also plan to cut the trees that in the way of the solar panels and turn them into lumber.  Ones a big fir and I am thinking it will make great beams for the deck.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Don_P on July 06, 2010, 02:33:23 AM
Take a look at the shot of the log end. There is a small bullseye of heartwood. The other name for bluestain is sapstain, it does not infect heartwood. That shot also shows how it likes to travel in on the rays.

I have had one client that seemed to have trouble with allergies and bluestain.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 06, 2010, 06:38:12 AM
Would suck to have an allergy to bluestain but I'm wondering if once it's sealed with stain and verathane if it's still a problem?  Of course it is a mold right?  So that makes sense.

I have only just started to get allergies myself and seem to be allergic to the desert I live in so I'm hopeful the bluestain doesn't bother me -- hasn't so far.

Have a LOT to do to get milling right but so far I can at least make rough cut boards :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Don_P on July 06, 2010, 07:30:31 AM
it's the only time I've seen what we took to be a reaction and he had been sanding heavily stained wood. You mentioned your sinuses, just something to watch for ...without looking for. The mold in the news has a lot in common with the climate in the news. But yes it is a mold. We also go back a few million years together, side by side. Sealing it is probably better inside, I prefer a cleanable surface anyway.

I'm sawing through some black locust now. It has extractives within it that give many people trouble... and then there's a good bit of heartrot in these logs, yet another species of fungi. But most people in casual contact don't react.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 06, 2010, 06:54:10 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fth_MakingLumber.jpg&hash=855f1efdd45ece77ac6c62dda97ef33e) (http://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/Cabin/?action=view&current=MakingLumber.mp4)
A two minute video chopped into 50 seconds (to reduce it's size a little) that shows me milling some 1x's.  Nothing fancy.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on July 15, 2010, 05:31:55 AM
That's some purtiful siding.  I'd be tempted to use it inside somewhere.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 21, 2010, 06:08:12 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0121-2.jpg&hash=256ce79df35adb4cb2f01b22d4a09191)
Got a ton done this past week!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0115.jpg&hash=c9340e7bf66640a69e7d79627e8f5814)
Chimney is in but needs finishing touches.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0095.jpg&hash=00c1b126efb5a902204193bbf1ed9d83)
Siding is 90% done.  Just a few patches and the batting to do.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0122.jpg&hash=3d28b73712bc5bfd9507c7b8d03f74d2)
It was about 80 tops during the day and usually around 40 at night -- so awesome!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on July 22, 2010, 06:01:45 AM
Looking GOOD!  I bet you're happy to have it that far along!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 06:03:17 AM
Looking GOOD!  I bet you're happy to have it that far along!

THanks and yes :)  Congrats on the job too!  I'm out of work so more time to do cabin stuff but less funds of course...ahhhh life.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 06:06:48 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0108.jpg&hash=323f11b1458277a9e971078f6050d638)
One problem I have to sort out with the Chimney install is that the collar for the roof penetration seems to cause some issue with the flashing/gasket that goes over it and seals the roof.  I can't get it to lay properly because of the clamp.  I plan to go to the chimney shop today to ask about it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0111.jpg&hash=dd86573894ba94008fac21e4181a56c2)
Also, I'm pushing the limits a bit on the outside and intend to cut away a few inches of the outrigger rafter to ensure the 2" clearance around the pipe.  On the inside I'm ok with just over two inches but the outside I was at 1/2" at best....gotta fix that.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0109.jpg&hash=e961fee725cab592534e79e173bea450)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0110.jpg&hash=a69a5c7c23387d6c29cb8c50ae4ab516)

The idea was the keep the chimney away from the main roof so that leakage wouldn't be an issue.  I've done that but need to clean it up a bit.

This is a heavy chimney to install too!  The boys and I fought it for some time before getting it sorted and properly secured.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 22, 2010, 08:55:42 AM
I can't tell from the picture what is keeping the flashing "up". But I have installed a few of those style flashing's and they don't lay down real good until you get a few screws in them. Be sure to space the screws correctly, and to keep them center on the soft metal flange. Also I try to seal them under the flange, then apply a bead of sealant on the flange edge, especially on the steep side. Lexan, Geosel, and Through the Roof have worked well for me. The Geosel is top shelf sealant if you can find it.

Are you short a piece of metal on the eve, or does the end rake take care of that ?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on July 22, 2010, 09:47:31 AM
Great progress Lurker, you've been kicking arse on your cabin lately.

Question about your siding... since I hope to be at a similar step later this summer. Are you painting that plywood and going for a board/batten look?

So it looks like you installed the windows and flashed them with tar paper then put on  your siding. Did that work well? What size trim will you use to cover the gaps between the window and the siding?

I'm trying to figure out what order I will do, we have osb sheathing then building wrap then T1-11. I may do it your way as long as it's waterproof since we get way more rain.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 22, 2010, 11:12:11 AM
OlJarhead,  Cabin and land looks like a good match.....and progressing nicely. Did you buy the plans from John? I hope to start a small cabin soon...maybe a 16' x 28'.


Thanks,
Shawn
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 12:29:39 PM
Great progress Lurker, you've been kicking arse on your cabin lately.

Question about your siding... since I hope to be at a similar step later this summer. Are you painting that plywood and going for a board/batten look?

So it looks like you installed the windows and flashed them with tar paper then put on  your siding. Did that work well? What size trim will you use to cover the gaps between the window and the siding?

I'm trying to figure out what order I will do, we have osb sheathing then building wrap then T1-11. I may do it your way as long as it's waterproof since we get way more rain.

We will be staining the roughsawn T1-11 (plywood) with Chestnut stain after we put in batten's to cover all seems and nail lines (every 16" we will put in a roughsawn pine batten that I'll make from old trees on the land).

Thanks to others here on CP I put the windows in after the sheeting and used tar paper to cover everything and do the windows.  I looked up a LOT of window install stuff and tried to do mine close to a median on what I read.  No tin flashing above the windows but there is a 1 foot eve and low rainfall so I'm hopeful it will be ok.  Here in the desert (eastern Washington) that's also common.

For the west coast I see no reason why this wouldn't work except that I'd flash all windows and doors because of the rainfall in the area (that's just me mind you and I'm no expert).

So in your case I'd say sheeting (OSB), 15lbs felt on the walls and 30lbs felt on the roof, windows done as per the link I'll post which I got from Don I think.... as soon as I can find it...and then siding.

I chose the roughsawn T1-11 because of cost ($27.95 a sheet) and looks -- the board and batten look is so 1900's :)  It was the cheapest way to go but a word of caution:  in wet climates it may not be the best idea.  In a wet area I'd look to see what Cedar siding would run or perhaps one of those new lap products that HD sells??  Might be worth a look anyway.  Otherwise, if cost is a big issue then T1-11 will work fine if treated well.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 12:33:40 PM
OlJarhead,  Cabin and land looks like a good match.....and progressing nicely. Did you buy the plans from John? I hope to start a small cabin soon...maybe a 16' x 28'.


Thanks,
Shawn

Yup :)  I bought the 'Whole Enchilada" plans and am very happy!  I've modified the build a bit and John (as well as many others here in the forums) has been a great help!  The 16x28 I'm confident would be an easy thing to do from these plans.

Things to consider:

1.  Go with the heavier floor!  I went with 2x6 floor joists and while that's ok for a cabin I kinda wish I'd taken the advice I was given and went with 2x8's.  For a 16x28 I might even go 2x10 -- but in WA if you want to build to code then you might have to go with 2x12 -- something to look into.

2.  Check span tables on your chosen floor joists, block them during the framing phase and try to reduce the cantilever (if going with code you'll probably have to go with no more then the depth of the joist so consider that when deciding on a foundation).

3.  Take your time, and know this:  How do you eat and Elephant?  One bite at a time!

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 12:47:27 PM
I can't tell from the picture what is keeping the flashing "up". But I have installed a few of those style flashing's and they don't lay down real good until you get a few screws in them. Be sure to space the screws correctly, and to keep them center on the soft metal flange. Also I try to seal them under the flange, then apply a bead of sealant on the flange edge, especially on the steep side. Lexan, Geosel, and Through the Roof have worked well for me. The Geosel is top shelf sealant if you can find it.

Are you short a piece of metal on the eve, or does the end rake take care of that ?

In reverse order:  the Gable Flashing isn't installed yet.  I plan to install it last.

OK, the flashing is hiding the 'collar' type support which screws to the roof and holds the Chimney in place.  I think it also acts like a heat barrier of sorts but um uncertain about that.  I'll find a link to show one (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fireplace-chimneystore.com%2Ft%2F%2Fduratech_roof_support.jpg&hash=bfd5759a3725b9cecd791c9415a0b5a4) -- but basically it has a large clamp with an angled bracket that bolts to the clamp and can be adjusted to the pitch.  The bracket is screwed to the rafters/roof and provides a two inch hold off for the clamp (to keep the chimney 2 inches away from combustible surfaces).  The clamp is the kind which goes around the chimney and then turns up at each end so you can tighten a bolt through it to 'clamp' the pipe.  That piece of the clamp is about 1" deep and 6" tall making for an almost knife like edge that the rubber flashing has to go over.

I'm guessing that if I secure the top of the flashing and then pull the bottom down tightly that I might be able to get it to fit the way it's intended but I'm uncertain....I think it may not cover as much as I cut out of the roofing :(  I'm planning a visit to the stove guys to ask about it soon.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 22, 2010, 01:54:13 PM
Could the collar bracket be installed underneath inside the eve?   ???  I'm not familiar with that style bracket. 

When you have time I'm curious to see pics of the interior layout.

Is there a reason that you did not run the chimney pipe straight up and out? Less class A pipe that way. Anyway I think it looks good either way.

Shawn
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 04:00:28 PM
Could the collar bracket be installed underneath inside the eve?   ???  I'm not familiar with that style bracket. 

When you have time I'm curious to see pics of the interior layout.

Is there a reason that you did not run the chimney pipe straight up and out? Less class A pipe that way. Anyway I think it looks good either way.

Shawn

Yes the support can be installed underneath and I may resort to that but it will require some changes to the way I've put it all together :(  Funny thing is that I was originally going to install that way, saw that it would be easier on top and went that route....

I'll post some interior shots for ya since I just happen to have some ready :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 04:07:28 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0087.jpg&hash=34ab77ce21b5cc25da08728eeff1b971)
Vermont Castings Aspen (Thanks to MountainDon I was able to get a stove that fits the size of the cabin well I think).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0090.jpg&hash=d7614929654051f4e1b5e4caf974fc27)
The stove is installed just off center about two feet to provide clearance for the loft window (which is centered).  The stove pipe goes out the wall to give more usable space in the loft.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0082-1.jpg&hash=1034d8d1ac237a50aef9a94ff95f41a5)
The bathroom and 'kitchen' will be drywalled and the rest of the cabin will have knotty pine walls :)
Here you can see the makeshift kitchen and the area in front of the bathroom door will house a Futon couch/bed rather then the chairs and dog cage we had there this time (speaking of dog cages, we found cage training has been a blessing for our lab and he loves his 'den' which we take with us).

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2010, 04:09:31 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0078-1.jpg&hash=9e5780153b9c00fae24abf9b9172cbea)
Another angle at the kitchen/bath/sleeping area -- I'll get better pictures one of these days when I remember my 35mm camera and 28mil lense

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0077.jpg&hash=ddbdf1dfae662eba0d352c0974ae47f0)
This is basically the 'living' space but I'm using it as a bedroom for the time being....ignore the evil brown and black rifle in the corner.... :o
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 23, 2010, 07:22:10 AM
Interior layout looks good....more room than some would think :) Do you plan on living there full time after it is complete?   Good luck on fixing the flashing problem. Oh and I like "evil black" rifles  [cool]

I wonder if the composting toilets are "legal" inside city limits? Cheaper than hooking up to the sewage plant in some areas.

I like the Aspen stove and also the Jotul 602.....from my limited research these are the only 2 small stoves that I can find for small cabins...say around 500-700 sq feet. I'm leaning toward the Aspen because it has a clearer view of the fire and a ash pan.

Ordered the Big Enchilada plans today.  :)

Thanks,
Shawn
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 23, 2010, 09:15:36 AM
Interior layout looks good....more room than some would think :) Do you plan on living there full time after it is complete?   Good luck on fixing the flashing problem. Oh and I like "evil black" rifles  [cool]

I wonder if the composting toilets are "legal" inside city limits? Cheaper than hooking up to the sewage plant in some areas.

I like the Aspen stove and also the Jotul 602.....from my limited research these are the only 2 small stoves that I can find for small cabins...say around 500-700 sq feet. I'm leaning toward the Aspen because it has a clearer view of the fire and a ash pan.

Ordered the Big Enchilada plans today.  :)

Thanks,
Shawn

Atually, the loft is the real bonus :)  I'll post another couple of that here...it's BIG....

The evil black and brown rifle is an M1A Scout Squad :)  It's my 'bear and two legged critter repellent' ;)  Loaded with 165grain btsn bullets -- magazines of 20 each...think that ought to do it?  *snicker*

Don't plan on living in the cabin unless of course I'm forced to farm in order to survive...which might well happen if you follow economics at all...but I digress  d* It's a vacation/hunting cabin for now ;)

The Aspen is only one of those two allowed in WA State (though I shouldn't have cared since no one else does in my neck of the woods) so I went with that but the Jotul has a better reputation I think...however, Don is very happy with his Aspen so I got one too :)  Thanks to CP's forums!!

Composting toilets are legal everywhere as far as I know BUT (and it's a big BUT) the State might insist you hook up and pay sewage even if you don't use it.  In my case, if I asked them (as in went down and paid the tax to have paper that says I asked them *hint*) then they would demand that I put in septic or destroyed my well (or so a friend tells me who called them directly and told them he wanted to do what I'm doing in a far far place in the county ;) ) -- they thought the composting toilet was a quaint idea and I should do that AND spend the money to pay for permits to put in septic AND pay a contractor to put in septic and never use it because hey, they need the money, er I mean, hey, it's more sellable or some such crap.

So basically I think they can.....never mind I won't go there....I think building in REMOTE hard to get to places is a good option today.

The plans are great and what I like about them is that I have now plans for each different sized small cabin and how to put them all together to make a bigger one and more.  Lots of great info and John's done a great job.  Price is right too!

I intend to build ALL the cabins in the plans too :)  After all, my wife and I have 5 kids between the two of us and only one is still in school....so we need the extra room!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on July 23, 2010, 09:20:51 AM
It's starting to look like Home Sweet Home!  Nice job  :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 23, 2010, 09:40:39 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010026.jpg&hash=0171c5cf8eb1d8f06cdcc973e3a9c34b)
Large loft is 130 square feet.(10x13)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCabin-04-18-2010029.jpg&hash=07b93927bc434f7cbb9d6e67b210d677)
Small loft is 78 square feet (6x13)

My buddy Biggy (Shawnee Thunderpony Big Mountain) posed to give perspective :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 23, 2010, 09:41:19 AM
It's starting to look like Home Sweet Home!  Nice job  :)

Thanks :)  Starting to feel like home too!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on July 23, 2010, 09:44:48 AM
Those lofts really give you lots of extra room!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 23, 2010, 10:52:02 AM
2' knee wall 12/12 pitch 9' at peak bottom of cross braces at 8' or 7' 6" ?  ???

I think Mtn. Don found a winner of a stove......maybe Vermont Castings could have a CP member coupon or something. Or do you just "drop" Mtn. Don's name when ordering  ;)

The M1A is a real nice rifle.....hard to beat 7.62x51 for a MBR.

Back to the stove does the cook plate thing on top actually remove or is it decorative?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 23, 2010, 12:55:39 PM
Sassy -- yes they do!  LOTS in fact my wife thinks that we should take one :)

Shawn -- bottom of the collar ties is at 7 feet but a note here:  There are no rafter ties because of the 2 foot knee wall so I put collar ties in on every rafter pair and I'm using light rafters (2x6).  Technically this is a 'no no' I'm told but I'm also told that lots of people have done it and it's been seen on old (read 50-100 years old) cabins that are still standing.  I think it's fine, which is why I did it, but the more technical engineering types will say it's not.

If one was worried, however, I guess you could go with 2x10 rafters and heavier ties and put two ladders into the lofts (individually) and then use beams between the lofts but I'm not worried -- I think the 2x6 walls and loft joists will do the job.

John ought to contact Vermont Castings and let them know what's going on here and maybe they will sponsor the site ;)

As for the M1A -- it is in my humble opinion anyway, one of the very best MBR's ever produced.  I hold it above the FN-FAL's etc which I've trained on even.  It's a fantastic rifle and in certain configurations (Whitefeather for example) is not only powerful and rapid firing but accurate at 1000+ yards!  Mine, being a Scout Squad isn't quite as accurate out that far but I'd take 800 yard shots if I had to!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Hi Road on July 24, 2010, 07:18:14 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0087.jpg&hash=34ab77ce21b5cc25da08728eeff1b971)
Vermont Castings Aspen (Thanks to MountainDon I was able to get a stove that fits the size of the cabin well I think).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0090.jpg&hash=d7614929654051f4e1b5e4caf974fc27)
The stove is installed just off center about two feet to provide clearance for the loft window (which is centered).  The stove pipe goes out the wall to give more usable space in the loft.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0082-1.jpg&hash=1034d8d1ac237a50aef9a94ff95f41a5)
The bathroom and 'kitchen' will be drywalled and the rest of the cabin will have knotty pine walls :)
Here you can see the makeshift kitchen and the area in front of the bathroom door will house a Futon couch/bed rather then the chairs and dog cage we had there this time (speaking of dog cages, we found cage training has been a blessing for our lab and he loves his 'den' which we take with us).



I have followed your fine project for some time now and I find myself checking your progress as my first assignment when I open the CP page. I know you take caution to heart.  I trust you will see my comment as constructive.  Now, you should be snug-as-bug come a cold day with that fine stove.  There is a very important safety device I would recommend.  Did you install the combustion air inlet device?  As you complete the house it may become very "air tight" and you may find yourself competing for oxygen with the stove.  Most stove shops sell a thru the wall volumetric damper that will solve the problem.  The one I have seen looks like a dryer vent but has a grill on the inside and a small two-way flapper door that allows fresh air in when needed.  Of course you can always crack a window too.  Check with the manufacture of the stove if you have any questions.  Keep up the good work.  Happy Trails, John
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 24, 2010, 08:20:36 PM
I have followed your fine project for some time now and I find myself checking your progress as my first assignment when I open the CP page. I know you take caution to heart.  I trust you will see my comment as constructive.  Now, you should be snug-as-bug come a cold day with that fine stove.  There is a very important safety device I would recommend.  Did you install the combustion air inlet device?  As you complete the house it may become very "air tight" and you may find yourself competing for oxygen with the stove.  Most stove shops sell a thru the wall volumetric damper that will solve the problem.  The one I have seen looks like a dryer vent but has a grill on the inside and a small two-way flapper door that allows fresh air in when needed.  Of course you can always crack a window too.  Check with the manufacture of the stove if you have any questions.  Keep up the good work.  Happy Trails, John

Glad you brought that up :)

When I ordered the stove they mentioned the cold air intake (or whatever it's called) and I opted to wait to buy it at the time but intend to do so later.  Then honestly I forgot about it for a while (it was a few months or more since I bought the stove) but I remembered it when I brought the stove out to the cabin and continue to remind myself to get the intake because, as you suspect, our cabin will be pretty air tight and I don't want to run the risk of CO2 poisoning!

But thanks for bringing that up because it IS an important addition in a project like this.
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 25, 2010, 05:47:34 AM
Erik,


I'm in the HVAC trade and have installed numerous combustion air inlets on wood stoves. I use the all galvanized steel air hoods with 1/4 inch hardware cloth in them. Also I usually use rigid pipe, warm air gauge (28 ga, though 26 would be just fine) over the z-flex "slinky" tube. If you go with the air hood DO NOT GET THE ONE WITH THE DAMPER. The damper is used for exhaust, for clothes dryers, range exhaust hoods, ventilation ext. Now if all you can find is the ones with a damper, you should be able to drill the rivets out that hold it in place....no big deal takes like 10 sec with a good bit. Also this pipe will/maybe sweat in unconditioned spaces, so if that is a concern it should be insulated.

One more thing if you do not want a air hood on the outside of the cabin, because of looks or whatever. You can run the pipe through the floor, cut out a cap leaving about a 1/4 of metal on edges then spot weld or solder some 1/4 hardware clothe in it. We make these a lot for commercial exhaust and intake applications. Also if bugs are a problem you might want to put some small opening window screen over the hardware cloth.


Thanks,

Shawn

sorry to post so much...thought it might be relevant
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2010, 06:33:18 AM
Erik,


I'm in the HVAC trade and have installed numerous combustion air inlets on wood stoves. I use the all galvanized steel air hoods with 1/4 inch hardware cloth in them. Also I usually use rigid pipe, warm air gauge (28 ga, though 26 would be just fine) over the z-flex "slinky" tube. If you go with the air hood DO NOT GET THE ONE WITH THE DAMPER. The damper is used for exhaust, for clothes dryers, range exhaust hoods, ventilation ext. Now if all you can find is the ones with a damper, you should be able to drill the rivets out that hold it in place....no big deal takes like 10 sec with a good bit. Also this pipe will/maybe sweat in unconditioned spaces, so if that is a concern it should be insulated.

One more thing if you do not want a air hood on the outside of the cabin, because of looks or whatever. You can run the pipe through the floor, cut out a cap leaving about a 1/4 of metal on edges then spot weld or solder some 1/4 hardware clothe in it. We make these a lot for commercial exhaust and intake applications. Also if bugs are a problem you might want to put some small opening window screen over the hardware cloth.


Thanks,

Shawn

sorry to post so much...thought it might be relevant


Good post thanks :)

Don did something with dryer hose and I was wondering if I could do something similar myself...need to go look at the book for the stove before heading back to the cabin. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 25, 2010, 11:39:49 AM
Erik,

You can use dryer vent if you want. I have found that most people use the hard pipe in exposed locations, then transfer over to dryer vent in the craw space. Also you can paint the galvanized with stove paint too match the stove. Use a special primer for galvanized or simply wipe the pipe and fittings down with vinegar, let dry then paint. They might make 4" black pipe and elbows, but I don't remember ever seeing any. Check at a local stove shop.

Personally I think in your situation I would install a elbow on the stove inlet and go straight through the floor, install a cap cut out with screen installed. Paint the exposed fittings black or use black pipe if available. Then if you ever install a skirt around the foundation you can add the air hood, remove the screened cap, and run dryer vent from the pipe to the hood. Either way the materials are quite inexpensive.

Shawn
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2010, 04:14:09 PM
Erik,

You can use dryer vent if you want. I have found that most people use the hard pipe in exposed locations, then transfer over to dryer vent in the craw space. Also you can paint the galvanized with stove paint too match the stove. Use a special primer for galvanized or simply wipe the pipe and fittings down with vinegar, let dry then paint. They might make 4" black pipe and elbows, but I don't remember ever seeing any. Check at a local stove shop.

Personally I think in your situation I would install a elbow on the stove inlet and go straight through the floor, install a cap cut out with screen installed. Paint the exposed fittings black or use black pipe if available. Then if you ever install a skirt around the foundation you can add the air hood, remove the screened cap, and run dryer vent from the pipe to the hood. Either way the materials are quite inexpensive.

Shawn

Not sure I want to go through the floor though (but it would hide it) since it's insulated.  But I guess it would be fine to punch through the insulation and put it there...then I could bend it out to the outer wall if I wanted but come UNDER them....I just planned on punching right out the (insulated -- doh!) wall behind the stove and put something in to keep the rain and bugs out...and maybe just paint it brown to hide it.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 25, 2010, 04:33:12 PM
Erik,

Here is a link to the type of air hood I was referring to. Check at a local HVAC shop they should have them, some shops stock brown as well. The reason I recommended going through the floor is it would have the least amount of exposed pipe and IMHO would make a cleaner install. Going through the wall is fine as well. Don't worry about the insulation. We run the intakes in joist bays all the time. That way the insulators will insulate them and we don't have to spend the time and money to wrap the pipe with foil or fiberglass insulation.

http://www.hvacquick.com/products/residential/Ventilation-Accessories/Discharge-Caps/wall-hoods-

Shawn
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 25, 2010, 05:16:04 PM
OlJarhead on  my fresh air intake it was set in a masonry wall.  I used 4" schedule 40 pipe through the block.  Then I bought some 3" black stove pipe which was the outlet size of my stove ( Hearthstone) and used a black 4X3 reducer.  I had to make the 90 deg turn in direction before the PVC and used adjustable 3" elbow.   The fresh air intake will not get that hot and I only used hardware cloth to keep the critters out.  Bugs will only make it into the firebox and not into the room.  You may want to keep inspecting the pipe to make sure that wasp do not make a nest that will constrict the airflow.  
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on July 30, 2010, 10:58:16 AM
Erik,

How did the roof flashing and support turn out?


Shawn
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 31, 2010, 07:12:37 AM
Admitedly I haven't done any cabin work lately :(  Been home about a week and a half and either trying to do gardening etc or looking for work.

Have some reloading to do and some cabin thinking to do...so maybe I'll get something going soon.

It's the hot time of the year and I hate it! hahahaha  I don't much like weather over 75...ok I can do 80 but more then that and your pushing it!  So I'll probably go out only once in August for a 4 or 5 day trip and MAYBE a short one day deal to do clean up...then it's wait for fall!!!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 31, 2010, 08:39:23 AM
Cut my finger reloading (actually drilling out primers -- DOH!) so took some time to surf and found this site: http://logdovetailjig.com/cutting_dovetail_notches.html

Cool
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on July 31, 2010, 08:52:37 AM
Cut my finger reloading (actually drilling out primers -- DOH!) so took some time to surf and found this site: http://logdovetailjig.com/cutting_dovetail_notches.html

Cool

Sweet! I like it!  I've been looking for something like that for a while now.  That will come in handy when I finally start on the cabins next year.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 31, 2010, 06:10:36 PM
Our rack for the solar panels is coming along nicely! :D  It's going to be heavy, but sturdy I think.  My neighbor has a small business doing fabrication and welding and took a look at what I wanted to do and quoted me $325 for the pole and rack.  The pole is 3" sch 40 steel and 8 feet long.  We'll put it 3' in the ground with concrete (hoping that's deep enough to carry the load).  The panel rack will be 2" steel angle and welded (saw his progress and it's very nice work) together with the outside all nicely fit together in a ~10' x ~5 1/2' rectangle with two center bars (angle) running the length and two cross bars running side to side (so a double cross in the middle of the rectangle).  Then there will be a swivel head on the pole at the top that will also tilt from 33 degrees to 63.  This way I can rotate them into the sun as well as change the tilt in different times of year. 

My idea was to create a semi-fixed pole that could be converted into a tracking pole some day.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 31, 2010, 07:33:55 PM
Sounds like a good plan.  I do things similar sometimes. :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on August 02, 2010, 03:03:24 AM
I buried 3" rigid conduit in the ground and used the threaded coupling as my swivel point. I currently have my 3 panels mounted on it and it has stood up to a good bit of wind during our tornado filled summers here in Mississippi. I found the "solar noon" point and drilled a 1/4" hold in both the coupling and conduit so I could pin it in position when I was not going to be around to manually track it and also to pin it so it would not swing in strong winds. I hope my 3 190 watt panels come in this week. I will be doing some retrofitting! God Bless
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 02, 2010, 06:21:57 AM
I buried 3" rigid conduit in the ground and used the threaded coupling as my swivel point. I currently have my 3 panels mounted on it and it has stood up to a good bit of wind during our tornado filled summers here in Mississippi. I found the "solar noon" point and drilled a 1/4" hold in both the coupling and conduit so I could pin it in position when I was not going to be around to manually track it and also to pin it so it would not swing in strong winds. I hope my 3 190 watt panels come in this week. I will be doing some retrofitting! God Bless

Cool :)  What were you running before the 190's?

Oh Glenn, I got the 205's from sunelec also :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on August 02, 2010, 07:45:53 AM
2 used panels I got off of eBay, an 75 and an 80 watt. My first experience with solar panels was a shattered 110 watt. FedEx ate that one but it kinda scared from interstate commerce with solar panels. I just ordered from sunelec and just found out they are shipping out today. I just could not keep the batteries, 4-- 105 Ah batteries charged enough with the 155 watts even with great sun here in Mississippi.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: glenn kangiser on August 02, 2010, 08:12:15 AM
Cool, OJ.  My experience with them has been good and no broken panes so far.

More panels, more power, more useful, more things to run, more panels, more power..... power corrupts... [waiting]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 02, 2010, 11:54:11 AM
Cool, OJ.  My experience with them has been good and no broken panes so far.

More panels, more power, more useful, more things to run, more panels, more power..... power corrupts... [waiting]

Absolutely? hehe

Ya, mine arrived in perfect order -- in fact, for blems I couldn't actually find any blemishes so I'm very happy with them.

I'd read a bad review on their shipping but quite frankly the stuff I got was well packaged on a pallet with blocking and lots of wrap.  No scratches dings or other worries :D  Heck, I'm more worried about my handling of them then sunelecs!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: glenn kangiser on August 03, 2010, 07:34:23 AM
Mine were double packed - no problems - likely problems would be with the shipping company anyway.

I have six arriving -maybe today if they get enough freight to come up here.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 12, 2010, 08:08:53 AM
Just got off the phone with Backwoodssolar.com and have decided to buy one of their timers and relays for my well :)  I'm excited!  You see up to this point it's been a guessing, waiting, pumping, guessing game at the cabin and I'm kinda tired of it!  Plus, I get busy and forget to pump water and the cistern starts to drain out...so I've been trying to decide how to deal with this and Backwoods has helped :)

I can set the timer to cycle on and off 8 times a day.  Each time it can come on for an hour and then go off for two hours (assuming my pump will pump 5 gpm and the recharge is 2.5gpm).  Of course I'll have to actually figure out what the GPM of my pump is when running 12vdc but Backwoods seems to think it's likely higher then theirs because theirs are designed to run off solar and be more efficient.  While theirs draw 2.9amps at 12vdc mine is drawing 9amps at 12vdc!  He told me that he thinks that's because it's typical to put in a pump that will do way more then required 'just to be safe' but with proper power management a more efficient pump will do the job.

Anyway, my plan is to install the timer to switch the pump on for an hour then off for two and to check it periodically throughout the day to see if I hear it go dry while trying to pump.  If I do I'll push the off period to 3 hours etc etc.

I'm also planning on getting one of those low voltage shutoffs MtDon mentioned here so that I can protect the battery from being discharged too much...with luck I can get my cistern full again!

Now I just need to plan a trip up to get more work done...it's been THREE WEEKS now!  Yikes!  Feels like forever...of course without working it's a bit tougher since we have to be careful on expenditures but thankfully we though of that a while back and prepped for such a situation ;)

Darn preppers hey?
*chuckle*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 12, 2010, 08:18:03 AM
Good stuff!

Now what would be nice for the pump setup is a low voltage cutoff switch, so you don't have to monitor the battery as much.

Don't know if these would do the job for your pump....   ???

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/sPOD-Low-Voltage-Cutoff-Battery-Protector-p-25220.html (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/sPOD-Low-Voltage-Cutoff-Battery-Protector-p-25220.html)

http://www.smarthome.com/77416/Enforcer-Low-Voltage-Battery-Cut-Off/p.aspx (http://www.smarthome.com/77416/Enforcer-Low-Voltage-Battery-Cut-Off/p.aspx)



Wonder what gauge the wires are on that SPOD switch?  Cutting off at 11.6vdc almost seems too low?  Isn't that pretty much fully draining the battery?  Just wondering.

Of course, with a timer on my well pump this might not be as much of a problem but probably a good measure none-the-less.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 15, 2010, 10:59:44 AM
Solar rack is done :)  Looks pretty awesome too!  It will swivel on a bearing at the top of the pole and tilts from straight up and down to flat (up to the sky).  I'll have to drill some new holes in the panel frames for secure mounting and will have to figure out where 33/48/63 degrees is but otherwise it looks pretty awesome :)

it's all steel though so I'll have to paint it to prevent rust -- I'm thinking rustoleom should work.

Any thoughts?
Thanks
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: TheWire on August 15, 2010, 11:20:14 AM
Do you have a picture of your solar mount?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2010, 11:00:54 AM
Do you have a picture of your solar mount?

I'll take some today.  Need to clean it off and paint it since it's just been completed.  I'm pretty happy with it too!

Also received the Timer and Relay for the well pump today!  Very excited about this puppy.  The Timer can be set to come on up to 8 times in a 24 hour period and remain on for a predetermined period.  The relay is kicked on by a small amount of power from the timer and provides the main power to the pump.

This will allow me to cycle the pump on and off all day :D  The idea being that if I pump for 1 hour and it draws the well down but then let it rest for two hours before pumping another hour the well will have time to recover from each period of draw down before pumping again.

My pump also draws around 9-10amps so having it run for 1 hour at a time allows the solar power (60 panels) to recharge the battery before it begins to pump again :)

So I get to kill two birds with one stone -- recharge the battery while the well recharges too :)

I decided to go this route because I was setting up the well to pump, then going off to do a bunch of work and coming back in 3-5 hours to find the well drawn down below the sump pump!  Grrr....so then I'd shut it off and have to guess when it might have water to pump again.

This is less a problem in the spring (I'm thinking anyway) then in the dry summer months but I want to be able to get my cistern full without having to worry about it.

So this way I'll hook up the power and timer etc and forget it for a while and see how that works out.

I may have to watch for a day though to be sure I have the rest time right.

Anyway, I'll do a schematic up today for it :) and include links to the parts.
Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2010, 11:39:29 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FWellsystem-1.jpg&hash=cc77ba3cd172a9a66863a1d27fdc803a)
This is a quick drawing I did for my well system.  The Costco 60watt panels come with a charge controller not shown here.

I still have to get the low battery cut off -- something I'll have to add later.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2010, 03:18:37 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0043.jpg&hash=6482cebb05752d635d6ad4264747db55)
These arrived today :D  $20 from Bailey's -- probably made in China (no idea) but since ONE of these is usually $20+ I'm happy with $20 for the set!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0045.jpg&hash=54cba5bb882555359d08ca1d73c1bb6d)
This is the Pole Mount for our solar that my neighbor made.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0046.jpg&hash=b41af16ba309249b793731b726f4c605)
Center of the rack is designed to pivot to change angle to the sun.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0047.jpg&hash=b8cf3bc51c34e87a156f1495e99c7412)
The Rack mounts on this pole head (for lack of better description).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0048.jpg&hash=afa37094adfe53d93fb930e39c495e2c)
And the head rotates on the pole using a bearing (it also has support under it).  It has a locking bolt to secure it where I want it or to release it if I put in a tracking device :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on August 17, 2010, 04:00:14 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 17, 2010, 04:00:36 PM
Nice looking? Be nice in powder coat.   :)


How far off the ground will it be?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2010, 04:53:25 PM
Nice looking? Be nice in powder coat.   :)


How far off the ground will it be?

Planning on 3 feet in concrete and 5 feet to the top of the head.  That puts the bottom of the panels a little lower then I wanted but also makes it easier to put them on I think.

If I've done the math right (not sure since it's been too long) and the angle is the steepest at 63 degrees with a hypotenuse of 2.75 feet the  tip of the panel rack should drop ~2.45 feet down the pole and be 2.55 feet off the ground.

That would be in the winter.

In the summer with the panels at 33 degrees it would be 1 1/2 feet down the pole so about 3 1/2 feet off the ground...

On a side not I wanted a ten foot pole but was convinced that 8 feet might be better since it will be easier to install the panel rack and panels on....looking at the math I'm wondering if maybe I should have kept it at ten feet since that would make the bottom of the panels at 4 1/2 feet off the ground.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 17, 2010, 05:29:57 PM
Last winter I was wishing I had made the pole 1 to 2 feet longer, 1 to 2 feet more above the ground. Reason? I failed to take into account the amount of snow that collects at the foot of the panels and post. In reality it was no problem, just one of those things that in taking all the worst case scenarios into account might have been better. ???  If it snowed more then it might become a problem.

I was worried about the task of getting the panels up on the mount as well. I worked from the bed of my utility trailer to get a little boost up in the air with the ladder. I actually thought it ws easier with the panels in a vertical array. The lower panel was easy, the next one up (center) was not too bad and then for the third panel we flipped the panel over the top and had the empty space at the bottom again.

Are you going to use a gasket or something to separate the aluminum module frame from the steel? Something non permeable to water to reduce galvanic action.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2010, 06:08:01 PM
Last winter I was wishing I had made the pole 1 to 2 feet longer, 1 to 2 feet more above the ground. Reason? I failed to take into account the amount of snow that collects at the foot of the panels and post. In reality it was no problem, just one of those things that in taking all the worst case scenarios into account might have been better. ???  If it snowed more then it might become a problem.

I was worried about the task of getting the panels up on the mount as well. I worked from the bed of my utility trailer to get a little boost up in the air with the ladder. I actually thought it ws easier with the panels in a vertical array. The lower panel was easy, the next one up (center) was not too bad and then for the third panel we flipped the panel over the top and had the empty space at the bottom again.

Are you going to use a gasket or something to separate the aluminum module frame from the steel? Something non permeable to water to reduce galvanic action.



Ahhhh......hmmmm....you mean Rustolleom won't work?  I hadn't thought about it at all actually....

I guess with the snow I'll hope that it will melt away from the panels!  If not I might be shoveling if it gets bad.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Texas Tornado on August 18, 2010, 02:55:59 AM
How sturdy are the panels?
Is hail an issue?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 18, 2010, 06:11:56 AM
How sturdy are the panels?
Is hail an issue?

Hmmm....

The panels have an aluminum frame and seem pretty strong.

Hail does happen but it tends to be pea sized in our area (I hate to think what big hail would do to solar panels!).
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on August 18, 2010, 06:12:11 AM
Nice frame/metal work Ol'-
Looking forward to seeing the whole rig installed.  

Are you in an open ag. area?  Do you have free range cattle on your place?
Cattle have a nasty habit of rubbing themselves on anything they can get to- directly proportional to the value, I think.  My friend had the side of his camper mashed in by cows who thought it was a good place to "scratch".

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 18, 2010, 10:38:37 AM
Hail.. IF a panel is built to UL 1703 standards it will have to meet certain impact resistance. UL 1703 allows the glass to break as long as the breakage does not expose any electrical components in a manner that could cause a safety issue to people. There is also ASTM E1038 standard is directed solely at hail damage. The bugger of UL and ASTM standards is that they are just like the NEC, IRC, and most other codes and standards. "They" want to be paid for viewing their documents. @$%^&*!!   

I did manage to find an online PDF copy of UL 1703 if anyone cares. It is at http://www.polar-pv.com/ch/UL%201703.pdf (http://www.polar-pv.com/ch/UL%201703.pdf)  This may or may not be a legally available copy. I did find it with Google, so it's not my fault. I found nothing on ASTM 1038, other than they use real ice balls that are air propelled.

What I have gleaned from here and there is that an approved panel should withstand hail up to one inch in diameter, traveling at 50 miles per hour.  That's from a site that has "interpreted" the standards.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 18, 2010, 05:50:04 PM
Nice frame/metal work Ol'-
Looking forward to seeing the whole rig installed.  

Are you in an open ag. area?  Do you have free range cattle on your place?
Cattle have a nasty habit of rubbing themselves on anything they can get to- directly proportional to the value, I think.  My friend had the side of his camper mashed in by cows who thought it was a good place to "scratch".



It is a free range area but they seem to pass right by our site.  In fact, it is common for them to walk RIGHT behind the cabin but I've seen no evidence of them using the cabin, camper or trailer etc to rub -- though they do like some of the trees in the area.

Not sure why they steer clear (no pun intended) but am hopeful that will last!  Although this rack mount will be STRONG so might withstand some of their punishment.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 22, 2010, 08:34:31 AM
WhooHoo!  Heading out for a four day visit to the cabin :)

Going to get some work done and enjoy the woods for a few days.

See ya next week :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2010, 07:14:10 AM
Got back last night from a somewhat unproductive trip to our cabin in the woods :(
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FNestled.jpg&hash=e9aecfc68e526cea42ab3739d045a3f9)

The trip involved both my back breaking down (something was out of kilter as they say) and my Jeep breaking down (The Road Warrior decided to take a break I guess).  Was a trip of trials and tribulations but then, aren't they always?

So where to begin?

We left Sunday with high hopes of arriving in time to set up in the cabin and relax a bit before really getting to work on the cabin on Monday.  The trip was planned to get the cabin wiring done and install the load center to prep for solar power.  After that we planned to finish the insulation in the kitchen area and get the drywall install done also (kitchen and bath)....

However when we arrived and began setting up we discovered the Tent Trailer had been invaded by Mice.  I'd kept them at bay for a year but despite leaving out poison (which they consumed) the little buggers invaded, built homes, crapped everywhere, chewed holes through some of the canvas and then died.

Now I'll have to pull that trailer back to get it fixed up -- luckily, however, we don't stay in it much anymore, if at all.

So, with the trailer trashed we decided to live out of a cooler in the cabin (we like to use the Fridge, Sink and stove in the trailer and sleep in the cabin) and prepped the big loft to sleep in (cots with sleeping pads on them).

The next day we managed to get the kitchen wiring completed, the insulation in and the drywall up, except that we could not find my screw bit for my drill to screw the drywall screws in.  So I pulled out my hammer and tacked the sheets down with galvies and moved on.

It was a bit of a long day and I was fighting a sore back so split some wood and set up to test fire the wood stove that evening.  Other then that the day was pretty much a waste -- did some reading.

That evening I started and burned the first of the 3 test fires in the stove.  It was nice to finally try the stove out though I was a bit disappointed by the output and fretted a bit at the little stoves ability to heat the cabin.

The next morning my back was killing me, absolutely nightmare.  So, other then lighting the 2nd test fire in the stove (at which time I learned I must always prime the chimney) I did nothing else.  Hour after hour went by and I either read, slept or tried walking and stretching but my back would not allow me any comfort.

3rd stove break in fire was made that night and went well.  Incidentally the stove was putting out very nice heat by this time and I was happy with how it was going.  Clearly I just needed to let it run in order to get up to full output but in the burn in phase you are supposed to let it burn itself out without keeping it going.  Once I got past that stage it was clear the little stove will do just fine :)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FFiringStove.jpg&hash=cceed201d0af4dd7beb273fbb70c987c)
By Wednesday morning it was time to pack up and my back was feeling much better (still sore but manageable).  I ran the stove one last time to give us some warmth in the morning (it wasn't as cold as it had been mind you) and we soon began packing up to leave.

Once on the road I noticed that the Jeep (we call it 'The Road Warrior' because it spends so much time on the highway and has 211,000 miles on it now) seemed a little unhappy.  It was running hotter then normal and down on power...hmmmmm

As the miles ticked off and we continued out progress towards home the temp gauge continued to climb.  I was pretty unhappy with that since I'd replaced EVERYTHING in the cooling system and ignition system not to mention exhaust and so much more.  Something was wrong.

Soon we turned off the AC (it was 97 degrees out) and were able to keep it down to around 211/212 degrees which is just slightly high.  But it would be nice to have AC right?  On we drove and I began to wonder if maybe it was time to pull the fuel system apart and replace everything....ba bump....uh oh

Something happened, don't know what, seems like the engine cut out and then came back.....on I drove now staring intently at the gauges...not here!

Then suddenly she died.  We were heading up hill in the middle of no where.  No cell coverage, hot as heck, loaded with gear, miles from the nearest town.....dead.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0020-1.jpg&hash=fcc8cafa89c374d26a832ef95ec2fb05)

I noticed a farm house about a mile away but first attempted to get cell coverage by walking to the top of the nearest hill.  No good.  Then back to the Jeep and then finally off trekking in the heat to the farm house.

Luckily we had water, food, firearms and just about anything else one might need (even ice) so I was able to hydrate well and my son kept a cool bottle of water with him in the jeep to keep hydrated while guarding the rig.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0019-1.jpg&hash=05005744120e02ce97663f77f4100f63)
The farmers wife let me use the phone and then borrow their farm truck to pull the trailer back to their house so it wouldn't get stolen once the wrecker showed up.  Then we waited in the heat praying for a breeze (which sometimes came) until the wrecker arrived.  He showed up about two hours into our wait.

It was another hour drive to the nearest town (yes, ONE HOUR, we really were in the middle of no where) and then another hour and a half until my friends came to pick us up, drive back to the trailer, then finally on to home.  We arrived home some 7 or 8 hours later then we should have, worn out, without the Jeep and trying to plan the next trip.

We think it was the fuel pump that quit or a clogged fuel filter and hope to find out today what the problem was but one way or another it will cost me.

As for the two?  They gave me a huge break and charged only two hours (could have got me for 3 with all of them as OT hours due to the time, distance etc etc) so the tow was $265.  Our insurance will pay it (thanks American Family Insurance!  Whoohoo!)

Just another adventure eh?

Lastly, while the yotes were out in force this trip I never managed to get a picture of them for some reason (I think they are camera shy now) but we heard two long and lonely howls!  While these did not sound like the haunting cries of the wolves I grew up with, they definitely were not yotes!  I think they were wolves and the air just wasn't cold enough to produce the chilling sound of wolves in the Canadian winter....




Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2010, 07:24:12 AM
On a side note I think I have my well licked :)

By pumping for short periods and then giving it a break to recover I beleive I can fill the cistern without running the pump dry (it sits around the 45 foot mark and the well is 205 feet deep)...but the cistern is about 50 feet above the well so the 12vdc pump is pushing water nearly 100feet and not deep enough to pump for long periods.

Basically I pump for an hour (or so) then stop pumping, allow the battery to recharge and the well to refill and then after a couple hours pump another hour.

Once the time is in place this will all be automatic.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 27, 2010, 09:19:32 AM
Jeep stops dead and/or gives fits, low power, hiccups.... crankshaft position sensor. I carry a spare. Bugger to change on a hot engine.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: John Raabe on August 27, 2010, 09:32:08 AM
"Crankshaft position sensor" - and he carries a spare!
(I didn't know there even was such a thing.)

I guess Don's a pretty good mechanic too??? ::)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2010, 09:35:07 AM
Jeep stops dead and/or gives fits, low power, hiccups.... crankshaft position sensor. I carry a spare. Bugger to change on a hot engine.



Another Jeep buddy suggested that though I just had mine replaced about 3 years ago...how long do they normally last?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: astidham on August 27, 2010, 09:59:59 AM
Jeep stops dead and/or gives fits, low power, hiccups.... crankshaft position sensor. I carry a spare. Bugger to change on a hot engine.


Very True!
I just replaced the one in my jeep last week!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 27, 2010, 10:12:49 AM
Everyone of my 4 wheeling friends with XJ Cherokees carry a spare. They are not universal, many models over the years. It lets the computer know its position so the computer can tell the ignition and fuel system what and when to do. It's the only engine thing, other than belts, hoses and spark plugs that I have had to change since 1999. I have number five in the spares box; been there about a year, maybe 2. It's easiest to change with a very long socket extension and a flex socket, going in from the left rear side of the transmission. I forget the bolt size, but also have a couple spares. Experience counts for something.  ;D


As for heat these things always run hot, normal is 210, IIRC. An engine that runs hotter does get better fuel efficiency, but the stock XJ cooling system runs real close to too hot. There are many after market high performance radiators that will allow for cooler running; comforting if you 4 wheel in the heat of the SW desert.

 Flowcooler (http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/tech_support/) makes a water pump that has double the flow at low speed. They make the high performance pumps for many engines. And someone, I forget who, makes a low restriction high flow thermostat housing and thermostat.

The heat is another reason I only run Mobil One synthetic oil.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2010, 10:33:51 AM
Everyone of my 4 wheeling friends with XJ Cherokees carry a spare. They are not universal, many models over the years. It lets the computer know its position so the computer can tell the ignition and fuel system what and when to do. It's the only engine thing, other than belts, hoses and spark plugs that I have had to change since 1999. I have number five in the spares box; been there about a year, maybe 2. It's easiest to change with a very long socket extension and a flex socket, going in from the left rear side of the transmission. I forget the bolt size, but also have a couple spares. Experience counts for something.  ;D


As for heat these things always run hot, normal is 210, IIRC. An engine that runs hotter does get better fuel efficiency, but the stock XJ cooling system runs real close to too hot. There are many after market high performance radiators that will allow for cooler running; comforting if you 4 wheel in the heat of the SW desert.

 Flowcooler (http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/tech_support/) makes a water pump that has double the flow at low speed. They make the high performance pumps for many engines. And someone, I forget who, makes a low restriction high flow thermostat housing and thermostat.

The heat is another reason I only run Mobil One synthetic oil.

I'll have to get a new CPS and put it in the kit then -- didn't realize they were that bad.

I've replace the Radiator with a 3 core all steel unit (last year) along with the water pump, fan clutch and fan relay so the cooling system should be up to snuff for my uses.  Of course, new they aren't great but at least with the 3 core it ought to be a bit better then stock.

I've also replaced all ignition components (twice now) and installed Banks Header, Flowmasters, new Cat, T Body spacer and intake with K&N and much much more...so the jeep has been good.

In this case it still tries to start, even jumps like it's going to now and then but simply won't fire.

They will check it out this afternoon and I've asked that they check the CPS while at it -- luckily the shop owner is a Jeep guy :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 27, 2010, 10:42:13 AM

In this case it still tries to start, even jumps like it's going to now and then but simply won't fire.


Sure sounds like mine when the sensor goes south. If a person is really lucky it'll start back up after scaring the bejeebers out of ya'. But it is a warning best heeded with speedy replacement.  I buy mine from rockauto.com (http://rockauto.com)... Much better price than anyone local. (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.com%2Fgetimage%2Fgetimage.php%3Fimageurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Finfo.rockauto.com%252FSMP%252FPC308_FULL.jpg%26amp%3Bimagekey%3D445627-0%26amp%3Bwidth%3D450&hash=53d29515da7c663c1dc537bb594010d1)

The connecting wire has got shorter and shorter over the years. The last one is about as short as it can get.  Talk about pinching pennies.

I can't understand why they give so much trouble on this engine.   ???

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2010, 12:57:38 PM

In this case it still tries to start, even jumps like it's going to now and then but simply won't fire.


Sure sounds like mine when the sensor goes south. If a person is really lucky it'll start back up after scaring the bejeebers out of ya'. But it is a warning best heeded with speedy replacement.  I buy mine from rockauto.com (http://rockauto.com)... Much better price than anyone local. (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.com%2Fgetimage%2Fgetimage.php%3Fimageurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Finfo.rockauto.com%252FSMP%252FPC308_FULL.jpg%26amp%3Bimagekey%3D445627-0%26amp%3Bwidth%3D450&hash=53d29515da7c663c1dc537bb594010d1)

The connecting wire has got shorter and shorter over the years. The last one is about as short as it can get.  Talk about pinching pennies.

I can't understand why they give so much trouble on this engine.   ???



So it will crank but not start but sometimes almost start?  Spit once or twice?

I haven't heard from them yet but hope to soon -- I'll call the shop before close if they don't respond but it's about two hours from me :(
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 27, 2010, 01:41:06 PM

So it will crank but not start but sometimes almost start?  Spit once or twice?


Yep. Sometimes it just won't quite go. Or start and run rough with little response to the throttle.

In the past I've had it stop dead in it's tracks on a 4wd trail, middle of nowheres, UT.  Thank goodness by then I knew enough to carry a spare. Also thank goodness it was on a flat and level, non rocky section.

Another time it would not respond well to the throttle, it would spit and sputter and only slowly rev up. Then magically it was okay, until it acted up again a day later.

I've also had it start and run rough and then even out and be okay, only to go back into the cough and sputter, no power thing and then be completely fine for a week or more.


We once were out in the boonies here when a friend's XJ quit dead after sputtering. My part had a different connector than his. He recalled hearing something about unplugging the computer connections and letting it sit for a minute and then reconnecting. That worked well enough to let us drive back to town. He did replace the sensor later though. I've never tried that disconnect/reconnect thing myself though.


I've only had to replace it once on the trail, once in the campground the next morning. The other times I've replaced it at home because it was giving indications of trouble.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2010, 02:02:50 PM

So it will crank but not start but sometimes almost start?  Spit once or twice?


Yep. Sometimes it just won't quite go. Or start and run rough with little response to the throttle.

In the past I've had it stop dead in it's tracks on a 4wd trail, middle of nowheres, UT.  Thank goodness by then I knew enough to carry a spare. Also thank goodness it was on a flat and level, non rocky section.

Another time it would not respond well to the throttle, it would spit and sputter and only slowly rev up. Then magically it was okay, until it acted up again a day later.

I've also had it start and run rough and then even out and be okay, only to go back into the cough and sputter, no power thing and then be completely fine for a week or more.


We once were out in the boonies here when a friend's XJ quit dead after sputtering. My part had a different connector than his. He recalled hearing something about unplugging the computer connections and letting it sit for a minute and then reconnecting. That worked well enough to let us drive back to town. He did replace the sensor later though. I've never tried that disconnect/reconnect thing myself though.


I've only had to replace it once on the trail, once in the campground the next morning. The other times I've replaced it at home because it was giving indications of trouble.

Thanks Don!  I'll be ordering a spare shortly then!

Still haven't heard from the shop -- and I'm getting impatient.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 29, 2010, 10:46:35 AM
Nope :(

We bought the CPS at Schucks/O'Reilly's and headed out.  Got the old one out and found we got the wrong one from Shucks.  Went to nearest Shucks and they didn't have one either.  Went to Autozone - nope but one 20 miles away.  Went and got the RIGHT part.

Got back, replaced CPS -- won't start. :(

Drove home in defeat.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 29, 2010, 06:23:10 PM
Uh-oh!   >:( >:(  It was a good shot; keep for spare.     ???

Do you have a fuel pressure tester? Can you hear the pump run for a few seconds when the key is turned to 'on'? Do you have a code reader?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 30, 2010, 08:46:20 AM
Uh-oh!   >:( >:(  It was a good shot; keep for spare.     ???

Do you have a fuel pressure tester? Can you hear the pump run for a few seconds when the key is turned to 'on'? Do you have a code reader?

Pump comes on, no codes on the reader, smell fuel when it cranks...no idea at this point.

probably something stupid and I left it at the shop so they can fix it :(
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 02, 2010, 02:31:36 PM
Labor day is coming up :(  It's usually a weekend we go camping on, or in this case a weekend to work on the Cabin but the Jeep is STILL in the shop :(

The mechanic called earlier and told me he found no spark at the plugs and thought the coil might be bad but wasn't sure -- he wanted to swap it out to see (sorta lame).  It's a new coil so if it's bad then something made it go bad.

He also told me that he could only get 30psi on #2 during a compression test.  All other cylinders were fine (around 130) so I might have a stuck valve.

It's been more then a week and I'm starting to lose it -- not having my trusty steed is a bummer.

So, I'll continue to try to work on making furniture (started today) and pine away for the open road again.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: TheWire on September 02, 2010, 04:53:14 PM
Bummer about your continued Jeep delays.  Even though its a lot of work, I enjoy heading up to the cabin, maybe to the point of addiction d*  So its a big deal for a lot of us here when unforeseen circumstances cut into our cabin time.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 03, 2010, 06:34:13 PM
Bummer about your continued Jeep delays.  Even though its a lot of work, I enjoy heading up to the cabin, maybe to the point of addiction d*  So its a big deal for a lot of us here when unforeseen circumstances cut into our cabin time.

AMEN!

However, the good news:  I HAVE THE JEEP BACK! :D

The shop is the worst (Denny's Pit Stop in Ephrata WA) and after I told him to pull the plugs and check for spark he admitted there wasn't one -- I explained to him -- yes, that's right I explained to the so called mechanic -- that it takes only three things to make an engine run:  air, fuel and ignition.  It's the KISS method (Keep it simple stupid).  So after he begrudgingly checked for spark, found none and replaced the coil (because he thought it might be that) it fired right up.  Then promptly told me I needed to rebuild the head and it would cost me about $900-$1000 to do so.

I told him no thanks and I'd be there in two hours to get my jeep.  $200 later (and shorter since he charged me for 'diagnosing' the problem -- ya right) I was out the door and heading home but not before telling him that I should be charging him since I analyzed the problem and told him what to fix.  Amazing.

Anyway, drove the 100 miles home and the Jeep ran just fine.  I might need some head work but I might not -- it certainly ran fine at 75 on the interstate and during heavy throttle use when passing.

Now I can salvage the weekend somewhat :)  Won't make it to the cabin mind you, but will work on some other cabin stuff.

Already I've cut some tenons and when trying to drill 1 1/2" holes for the tenons (in a round) I realized I need a 'real' drill so my wife and I ran out and bought a big Rigid 9AM monster and a planer :)  Stoked now!

So, all is well as ends well eh?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 03, 2010, 07:50:45 PM
Glad to hear your XJ runs again. Too bad it was such a needlessly long ordeal.   I think it's rather odd for coils to go bad with such rapidity these days.   ??? ???



Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 04, 2010, 07:15:01 AM
Glad to hear your XJ runs again. Too bad it was such a needlessly long ordeal.   I think it's rather odd for coils to go bad with such rapidity these days.   ??? ???





My thinking is that the short I have in the system is causing the problem.  I've ignored it as 'inconvenient' with the intent of fixing it 'someday' because I've poured all my energy into the cabin project...oops.

So, now I must find out why my flasher constantly tics at me (as if the blinker is on) and why my stereo quit.  Then I need to check the compression myself and see what I find.  Seems very odd that a stuck valve would allow me to run down the hiway at speed for so long -- perhaps a sticking valve might as it may loosen and tighten with changes in temps.  If there is a sticking valve I might try some MMO (Mystery Magic Oil) to get rid of varnish etc in hope that it will hold me over until the new year.

I could pull the head myself and rebuild it (it wouldn't be the first head I rebuilt!) but right now I'd like it to wait until March!  HAHA  d* :o  My website sponsors renew at different times and in March my 2nd largest renews so I'd have the funds to have someone do a complete top end rebuild (new valves, guides, seals, springs etc) rather then having to do it myself.  Why not do it myself?  Have you ever pulled the header off and put it back on!? hahaha  It is the worst job and I hate doing it and rarely get the darn exhuast manifold gasket to seal  d*

Anyway, here's hoping I can get the XJ to hang in there for a few more months!  I think it's been hanging in for a while and they are tough buggers.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 04, 2010, 06:27:47 PM
My son mounted the router on the logman tenon cutter (note to self, check the way he's mounting it before letting the holes be drilled).
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0025-2.jpg&hash=556e6f11e537b53f2b7b549a1b7bd08b)

The setup works though :)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0024-2.jpg&hash=5585487774942c29f42aadb3702f005a)
We mounted it via clamp to an old reloading desk and cut some tenons.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0016-2.jpg&hash=3b370bc1fd6aa72d804504703e414504)
We're still perfecting the tenon cutting process but they work.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0019-2.jpg&hash=f7c792f6ff0c3fa1f43140aa931f20fe)
I freehand cut some holes in this round to test fit the tenons and see how hard it is to make a small table.
The round was way too small and freehand drilling 3 holes equidistant with limited measuring tools (I used a string and pencil) doesn't provide very well angled holes or legs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0013.jpg&hash=dcbe40bbfde7a2a77e8e9e17d62926a9)
So, with the rounds too small I devised a plan to rough cut two rounds so they can be fit together -- I cut them with a sawzal.  Then drill two small (1") holes and use the logman to make two small 1" dowels to fit in the holes.  This allowed me to join the two rounds.  Then drill holes, cut tenons in legs and the result:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0021-1.jpg&hash=4350552cce5ba902dc2d91dedb6d2eca)

Drilled both 2" and 1 1/2" test holes.  With my new Rigid 9am drill it was easy!
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0018.jpg&hash=867e5e2d5a91b2434ce79e28241c9b71)

Also, before fitting the rounds together I ran them through my new plane
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0026-2.jpg&hash=f489df0e7ac58fe9c7430ffd3ddcf63f)

It worked like a charm!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 07, 2010, 12:49:03 PM
Well I bit the bullet on an $1120 top end rebuild on the Road Warrior today.  The old Jeep has 212,000 miles on it and has been missing on either 1 or 2 (2 lately) off and on for about a year.  I originally thought I had an injector problem (after fixing a cracked header and replacing all ignition components) but recent events proved otherwise.

So I took the XJ into Autoworks in Kennewick WA where Jeff and Tina Bouvier operate.  They run a shop that is well known for their excellent quality and honesty.  Someone I know who set up Robby Gordon's car for road courses several years ago takes his stuff there -- nuff said eh?

Anyway, Jeff called me and advised that #2 was indeed sticking and after a compression test and wet test he's convinced the bottom end is fine but the top end needs an overhaul.  He's going to yank the head, clean it up, dissemble it, magnaflux it (for cracks) and machine it and rebuild it with new valves and springs and if any rods are bent he'll replace those too.

Sadly that's $1100 away from the cabin project but I need to be able to get there and back reliably.

Then I have to take the jeep into Les Swab as I've got a break dragging in the rear and I have their breaks and lifetime warranty.  With luck I'll have the XJ back on the road next week and be pulling a trailer up to the cabin on our way to get it ready for the winter and hunting season :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 09, 2010, 11:03:08 AM
Got word yesterday that the compression overall on the XJ was quite good at 160lbs average (156-165) except #2 which was 52 psi until a wet test which brought it up to 61psi -- indicating the rings are good but the valve isn't sealing.

So, with luck maybe I'll have it back for the weekend!  I hope so, but then I have to get the breaks done and finally, maybe tuesday next week, I'll head back to the cabin and get back to work.

Also visited my back cracker today :D  Got the tweak in my back and neck taken care of so now I should be back on the roof and finishing off the remaining exterior things before the snows come!  Exiting
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 10, 2010, 03:49:41 PM
No joy yet :(

The Jeep won't be ready until Monday now because the timing is slightly off -- the mechanic things it's because the timing chain is stretched (happens when you've got over 200,000 miles on it) and the dizzy needs to get modded slightly to allow them to correct the timing. 

I thought about replacing the timing chain but since I'm not working and he thinks it'll likely be ok for a year or more I'll take a chance and leave it -- the $300 or so to replace it is something I'd rather not spend since it wasn't budgeted.  None of this was mind you and we're pushing $1500 now.

Anyway, I can do it next year me thinks -- right along with the T-Case which is slipping under load in 4 wheel drive.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 12, 2010, 08:56:20 AM
While I wait to get my Jeep back and because of a recent conversation with a board member here I thought I'd post some pictures of my other project :)  A garden that spans one 20x20 spot, a 4x16 spot and a 4x4 spot in our back yard as well as a crab apple tree I planted to make my wife her favorite thing:  Crab Apple Butter :)

In 2007 I was beginning to worry about the economy and having lived through some depressed economies (local) in the last 20 odd years I've learned that it's best to be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best.  At the same time my wife and I have been changing our eating habits to more natural foods in a drive to live healthier (and perhaps longer) lives.

So we started with removing a tree from behind our shed and some arborvitaes and made a garden.

The tree, a birch, was dying of some beetle attack and the yard was in need of work anyway, so it came out and some off the arborvitaes were removed as well.  The year prior I'd actually started a smaller garden in a 4x4 section behind the house and a 4x16 section along the shed so this was really just an addition to those -- a big one!

My first plants were peppers because I wanted to make some Atomic Mushrooms (you have to try them!) and so that first year I learned a lot because of my desire to grow peppers -- this is a lesson to anyone who wants to do this:  if you are excited by what you are doing, you will likely learn a ton!  Those were the hottest cayenne's I've ever had!  But then maybe because they were grown right next to these guys:
The Habanero's have amazing flavor but OH BOY are they hot! :D

One thing we've done this year is to plant over a span of time rather then all at once.  This means I have corn still growing, carrots, rutabaga and parsnip as well as beans and tomatoes and of course peppers :)

Our new crab apple tree produced 13 crab apples this year :)  (actually I found a 14th that our dog was eating so I didn't count it) and I was able to make Crab Apple butter for my wife (though I had to buy 5lbs of apples to augment the sparse crop of crabbies.


Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 12, 2010, 08:59:02 AM

I've also taken up canning (and being out of work I have the time) and my tomato sauce is to die for!

Also did 20 jars of pears from a friends tree :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 15, 2010, 07:59:55 AM
Alright enough nonsense (probably not)!

The XJ is back (for a couple days) and I'm itching to get back to work on the cabin!  I've got the solar panel rack in the front yard and Josh and I cleaned it and then shot primer and painted (Rustoleum) it to protect it.

I plan to fit the panels and check voltages etc before hauling up to the property and want to drill any holes etc that need drilling before getting to our remote spot -- just to make life easier.

Of course, I have to check the breaks on the XJ first though -- the hazards of driving 500+ miles a weekend 2-3 weekends a month for a year eh?

This coming trip is supposed to accomplish a ton and I'm just not certain I can get it done but here's my list anyway:

First day:
1.  Frame and sheet porch

Second day:
1.  Install Solar Power Rack and panels.
2.  Install battery box and batteries
3.  Power up system
4.  Test power system
5.  Charge Batteries

Third Day:
1.  Finish drilling all holes for the wiring and pull all romex in.
2.  Install receptacles, lights, switches and AC load center
3.  Power up load center and test cabin power
4.  Insulate cabin

Fourth day:

1.  Replace #9 screws with #14's on the few panels I goofed up on the roof (don't ask)
2.  Install Ridge vent and cap on roof
3.  Cut away 2" of the lookout/outrigger rafter away from the chimney (need to get a little more clearance so will cut 2" of the rafter off (it's supported by lookouts) and install a metal strap to cover the gap.
4.  Install the gable flashing (that will finish off the roof)
5.  Fix/Finish the Chimney flashing and install the final brace.
6.  Drink Jack Daniels and Holler at the moon!

Fifth day:
1.  Recover from Howling at the moon.
2.  Finish small items left and clean up.
3.  Prep for return trip

I'm looking at this now thinking "Am I'm out of my mind?!?  I haven't done that much work in one trip in a while but I've got two potential jobs that I'm in negotiations for and while neither of them is ideal for me (they are not located in my home town) they both pay better then not working even after maintaining a second place.  So, while I don't want to take a job 240 or 650 miles from home I also don't want to sit on Unemployment (4 months is beyond my sanity point).  So, if I take one of these jobs (or get perhaps) then I won't be around to work on the cabin so much for a LONG time (6 months or longer in one case) other then maybe a weekend or two (if I get the closer job) which would be better spent with my family ENJOYING the cabin :)

Damn work! haha  If only some would come over HERE!  Geez...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 15, 2010, 10:22:36 AM
Slight change in plans ;)

Day One:
1.   Install pole for Solar Rack
a.   Dig 3’ hole
b.   Cement pole in hole & Brace
2.   Frame and sheet porch
a.   Set pier blocks
b.   Install posts and beams
c.   Frame floor
d.   Sheet subfloor
e.   Frame walls

Day Two:
1.   Finish Porch (Roof)
a.   Ridge board and rafters
b.   Sheet roof
c.   Felt roof and porch walls
2.   Install Solar Rack and Panels
a.   Stainless screws and rubber gasket
b.   Grounding wire – may need to run over to well for grounding
c.   Attempt to drive ground rod 8’ down
3.   Install Battery Box and Batteries
a.   Wire with auto battery wires – to + and then to copper bars
b.   Vent to outside of porch – need vent
c.   Mount Xantrex on wall above batteries
d.   Mount Iota and AIM beside batteries on shelf
4.   Power up System
a.   Test xantrex and AIM
b.   Test iota charger on generator
c.   Consider building generator box

Day Three:
1.   Finish drilling holes and installing romex
2.   Install receptacles, lights and switches
3.   Install Load Center
4.   Power up Cabin and test cabin power
5.   Power to Composter

Day Four
1.   Replace #9 Screws with #14’s on the 4 panels (5?)
2.   Install ridge vent and cap on roof
3.   Cut away 2” of outrigger rafter and install metal strap
4.   Fix/Finish Chimney flashing and install brace

Day Five
1.   Finish up left over items
2.   Return home or prep for return

Day Six
1.   Pack up and return home with Tent Trailer




I've also just ordered the copper bar to make my bus bars out of (1/4"x1" x5' - 2ea.).  I plan to drill them and install much like Don's shown us in his pics.  I felt that was the neatest method of installing the bus bars.  Now I just need to find stand offs to use and some pipe insulation.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on September 16, 2010, 12:08:08 AM
OJ, you getting the bus bars from Storm Copper? Can't wait to see the pictures of your solar install! Tickhill
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on September 16, 2010, 02:20:34 AM
OJ, I used SQD part# PK32DGTA for my bus bars, It will accept 7 - #6AWG - 350kcmil Cu or Al. SQD's Cu bus bar was considerably higher in $$$.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on September 16, 2010, 04:28:34 AM
Glad to hear you got the ol' Iron Horse (or is that iron mule?)back up and running!  I hope you have a productive time up there!  I know I went up with a long list of things to get done the last time, but barely got anything done - and that probably only happened because of my help (thanks again Frank!).  I think from now on, rather than taking only a 1/2 day off when I go up, I'll take the entire day.  I was still recovering on Saturday from the drive, and work - made it hard.

I know what you mean about the job situation.  I'm guessing the closer job is in my area someplace, so if it is, we'll have to get together for a beer sometime. 

I will be awaiting your AAP (After Action Post) to see how well your panels went up!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 16, 2010, 06:40:30 AM
OJ, you getting the bus bars from Storm Copper? Can't wait to see the pictures of your solar install! Tickhill

Got it from online metals.  Went to Storm but couldn't find their 'products' section.  Decided that $21.56/ea wasn't bad for a 5 foot 1/4"x1" bar and I can drill the holes in it.

Just need a stand off for it now -- anyone have any good suggestions?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 16, 2010, 06:44:07 AM
Glad to hear you got the ol' Iron Horse (or is that iron mule?)back up and running!  I hope you have a productive time up there!  I know I went up with a long list of things to get done the last time, but barely got anything done - and that probably only happened because of my help (thanks again Frank!).  I think from now on, rather than taking only a 1/2 day off when I go up, I'll take the entire day.  I was still recovering on Saturday from the drive, and work - made it hard.

I know what you mean about the job situation.  I'm guessing the closer job is in my area someplace, so if it is, we'll have to get together for a beer sometime. 

I will be awaiting your AAP (After Action Post) to see how well your panels went up!

I've had those days/weekends for certain but I keep trying to get MORE done and sometimes we're successful.  Right now the temptation is to just lite the fire and kick back...can't do it.

Couple jobs in Seattle but I'm not keen on it -- though if I do take one we'll definitely have to go out for a beer (Jack for me thanks)!


I can't wait to get the solar up and running!!!!  I'm so stoked but I need to build the porch first since I plan to use it as the battery box (more or less)...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on September 16, 2010, 08:36:16 AM
Standoff ideas for copper bus bar:



nylon bolts
plastic/nylon all-thread
solid plastic round rods

don't laugh  ???  rofl

buy a solid plastic cutting board at China-Mart for a couple bucks and cut some small squares out of it for standoffs.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 16, 2010, 09:08:29 AM
Standoff ideas for copper bus bar:



nylon bolts
plastic/nylon all-thread
solid plastic round rods

don't laugh  ???  rofl

buy a solid plastic cutting board at China-Mart for a couple bucks and cut some small squares out of it for standoffs.



That's why this is such a great board!  Lots of great ideas.

I hadn't thought of any of those.

I'm no electrician but I think that wood isn't a good conductor but rather an insulator -- am I wrong there?  I'm thinking that bolting the bar to a wood wall board 6" from the other bar will not provide a path from one bar to the other right?

Standoffs to give you room to work and help isolate the bar.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 16, 2010, 09:58:22 AM
Wood, when dry, is an insulator. It is not commonly used as an insulator because if wet is can conduct electricity.

So especially in low voltage situations there is practically no danger


Just so you know, a proper insulating electrical standoff does not use pass through bolts. There are standoffs that do have pass through bolts but those are not meant for direct connection to things like bus bars or other live electrical componeents.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fep.yimg.com%2Fca%2FI%2Fyhst-18711434844524_2119_40945656&hash=58e8f2cd3c620adff5fe4293f1707294)

The two threaded inserts are just that. separate inserts, one at each end. There is no conductive path through the standoff. Available at Storm Copper, assorted sizes.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 16, 2010, 10:19:00 AM
I've used nylon or delrin rod stock to make insulated standoffs. Cut a suitable length and drill/tap a hole in each end.

Be aware that nylon is hydrophilic, that is it does absorb water.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on September 16, 2010, 11:22:53 AM
If you go with the nylon bolts, my experience with them shows that they work best when installed vertically. More precisely when they are not bearing any load, simply holding something together.

I used them extensively when I used to work on induction furnaces, inverters, SCR's, etc.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 16, 2010, 11:40:09 AM
Wood, when dry, is an insulator. It is not commonly used as an insulator because if wet is can conduct electricity.

So especially in low voltage situations there is practically no danger


Just so you know, a proper insulating electrical standoff does not use pass through bolts. There are standoffs that do have pass through bolts but those are not meant for direct connection to things like bus bars or other live electrical componeents.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fep.yimg.com%2Fca%2FI%2Fyhst-18711434844524_2119_40945656&hash=58e8f2cd3c620adff5fe4293f1707294)

The two threaded inserts are just that. separate inserts, one at each end. There is no conductive path through the standoff. Available at Storm Copper, assorted sizes.



This would be my preference -- where can they be found Don?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 16, 2010, 12:21:39 PM
They can be found behind my bus bars.   rofl

or at Storm Copper (http://store.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/standoff-insulator.html), and probably other places I don't know about.  I used their part number, 1100-A1. Their prices include shipping and handling so the per unit price drops a lot as the quantity increases.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on September 16, 2010, 02:13:47 PM
Erik,


If you have the time to cut, drill, and tap then these would save you some money over the pre-made "genuine" one.


http://www.fastenal.com/web/products.ex?N=0&Ntk=Search+All&Ntt=nylon+rods&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&searchBox=1
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 16, 2010, 02:20:06 PM
Thanks all!  I'll order the Storm product since it's only $26 for 12 of them :)  That ought to be plenty for what I'm doing.

AWESOME
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 17, 2010, 06:20:23 PM
Scored three double paned aluminum windows - 3x3's for the porch today :)  All free with no cracks and 2 have screens :)

Then was informed I can have all the rest of the windows from the house too :D

One is a 10'x5' window and two are 6x4.5' -- I think they would be great for a green house!

I plan to scoop them all up and store them in the shed at the cabin so I can use them for other projects down the road :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 17, 2010, 06:33:41 PM
great deal!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 18, 2010, 07:41:57 AM
great deal!



Amen!  I'm pretty stoked.  Picked up the 3 windows yesterday and all are in excellent shape.  Now I'm just trying to get my head around the solar power and porch framing -- I want to complete both in 5 days!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 18, 2010, 07:44:50 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin092010.jpg&hash=12fb9d47f860a24b3608dc5d8aa887a9)
OK the wife was harassing me about my porch and cabin drawing because I actually drew most of the porch board by board so you could see it from any angle (all framing).  It looked, she said, like the porch was holding the entire cabin up since I didn't have the foundation on the cabin -- sheesh...

But it gave me an excuse to play with sketchup some more :)

So now the cabin AND porch have a foundation (sans bracing).

This program is fun to play with but when I was using Mastercam years ago it was far far superior!  I could easily have drawn the cabin framing in Mastercam on an old Pentium 133 faster then I can draw it now in Sketchup with a 2700 and 2 gigs of ram!

Sketchup just isn't that bright a program but for free one shouldn't really complain :P
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 18, 2010, 01:35:41 PM
I used a rafter link Don posted in another thread: http://www.blocklayer.com/Roof/GableEng.aspx to calc my porch rafters (thanks Don).

With a 4:12 pitch the rise is just under 2 feet which should be perfect for what I'm trying to do provided I remember to make my walls 7' tall -- it is a porch after all.

I plan to build this porch with 2x8 rafters (now don't laugh!  I expect snow to be dropped on the roof unlike the cabin's 2x6 rafter which I'm not worried in the slightest about) and will install rafter ties (bottom 1/3rd right -- so a little above the wall should be ok in order to give more head room if I hand a light off of one).  Here is my materials list...see anything missing please poke me!

Thanks
Erik
1.   Posts – 4x4x8 PT – 3ea
2.   Blocks – Pier Blocks with saddles – 6ea
3.   Beams – 2x8x12 – 2ea
4.   Braces – 2x4x8 PT – 6ea
5.   Joists – 2x6x8 – 8ea
6.   Flooring – ¾”x4x8 T&G – 2ea
7.   Studs & Plates – 2x4x8 – 40ea
8.   Headers – 2x6x8 – 2ea
9.   Sheeting – 7/16” OSB – 5ea
10.   Rafters – 2x8x10 – 6ea
11.   Ridge board – 2x10x8 – 1ea
12.   Roof Sheeting – 5/8x4x8 OSB – 3ea
13.   Roof Felt – 30lbs – 1ea
14.   Wall Felt – 15lbs – 1ea
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Don_P on September 18, 2010, 04:50:22 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx109%2Fwindyhilll%2FbeyerfoundandwallsSept17-1.jpg&hash=c7c627fffe9fd0cba2cc2f766c8b4676)

Keep playing with it, I've been quite impressed, there are shortcuts... I only drew one rafter on this sketch, made a component out of it and placed duplicates on 16" centers, etc. This is a plan I've been working on, the heavy timber trusses are supporting a ridgebeam. The hidden view is allowing me to trace the load paths. The drawing has 9 layers at present that can be turned on or off to look through and modify the building. Most blueprint shops support it.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 19, 2010, 06:43:27 AM
Wow Don!

I have been fighting with the way it allows me to move things and cut and paste...getting something on centers is like a nightmare for some reason.  Maybe I need to play with it some more eh?

WEATHER!!!????  What the.....

It's COLD and WET in the Northwest (even in the desert) and it looks like Winter has arrived (just skipped the Fall all together).  Temps at the cabin are down in the low 30's at night (or mids) and temps during the day are in the 50's and chance or rain is "bring a raincoat".

Ducks in the desert are wearing boots and carrying umbrella's and I'm supposed to get to work on the cabin!?

Sheesh...looks like it might be wet work next trip -- good thing the wood stove is in!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on September 19, 2010, 11:09:54 AM
I like rain...but I like autumn better.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on September 19, 2010, 11:34:17 PM
I believe heaven will be in a constant state of autumn! Give me autumn almost year round.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on September 20, 2010, 02:14:56 PM
I believe heaven will be in a constant state of autumn! Give me autumn almost year round.

If my dad hasn't fished it out already, I believe that fishing season will run concurrently with hunting season.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 20, 2010, 02:17:36 PM
Frustration!

I'm getting ready for our next trip and realized that I can't get all the porch supplies and truck them up since my trailer can only handle 1200lbs and I've got 6 batteries, the solar rack, solar panels, wheel barrel, cement and windows to carry not to mention our personal gear, food etc etc :(

So it looks like a trip up to unload the trailer then a trip to Omak to Home Depot, then load up the 900+lbs of supplies, then back to the cabin!  Grrrr

So, if all goes well we won't start until Wednesday but perhaps we can kick butt when we start.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on September 21, 2010, 05:51:58 AM
I just got back yesterday from an extended weekend trip.  Temps were mild 50-60's during the day but not dipping down to much at night.  Didn't need the heater at all.  Mostly overcast, some sun breaks, periods of rain and some impressive lightning.

Had a conversation with an old timer in the Colville tribe and learned a bunch from him.  I had noticed that all of the Ponderosa Pine in the area have their inner needles browning.  He said it happens when they have too much rain.  He said it happens every few years around there.  He also gave me one of those you dumb coastie looks and said "You got no idea what kind of treasure you got here do ya?"

I told him I felt mighty blessed to have property in such a beautiful spot.

He said, "That ain't what I'm talkin' about!  Look all around here.  You got a gold mine of 'Shaggy Manes' around here."  He then picked one and took a bite of the stalk.  "They're even better in gravy." 

He knew all kind of things, wished I had a note pad and a pencil.  I hope I've made a friend of him.  The dude is an encyclopedia with little exposure to formal education, a bit grouchy but has a lot of life experience and paid attention along the way.  This here ignorant WETsider got schooled and enjoyed every minute of it.  ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 21, 2010, 06:17:40 PM
Lost internet for most of the day!  Yikes!  However we did manage to get the solar panels ready for the final phase!  INSTALL!!!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSettingup_solarpanel1.jpg&hash=ad58ac93de4640051981213320b26214)
First had to clamp them to the rack, then carefully drill mounting holes and fit SS nuts and bolts.  Carefully!  I didn't have a way to stop the drill (and didn't feel like making one) so I just carefully drilled all 26 holes :)  No misshaps!  (whiles brow)....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0018-1.jpg&hash=570a2e80a227c678168ba7d19075b450)
And soon they were all sitting on the frame and bolted down.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0017-1.jpg&hash=253a2cfe9c50a1513b58043ecc4112a5)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0016-3.jpg&hash=b197d18b4d070a0f744b794ba0ba2294)
Of course we had to take them all off for shipping but it was nice to fit them and make sure everything would work.  Once we're at the cabin and the pole is in the ground in cured concrete we can mount the rack and install the panels!

615 watts of sun power :)

Also got the copper and standoffs for the battery bank and all the wires for the system -- just need to terminate the 1/0 (solder anyone?)....and we're set :D

Can't wait.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 21, 2010, 06:23:20 PM
 [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 28, 2010, 06:05:29 AM
We've got the power :D

OK, sorta.  Just got back late last night and will report shortly!

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 28, 2010, 09:54:35 AM
So here is the problem:

You can put your solar panels approximately 30-35 feet from your cabin (50 feet of cable and you need some to go under ground and some to go up to the panels and inside of the cabin etc) and to the south of the cabin is a camper that's been there forever...and you have no truck.....the solution?
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FHillbilly.jpg&hash=5e00fe57a70ef1cc8ee8bf3441c1932b)
Or is it just Hill Billy camping? hahaha

Anyway, we 'got 'er done' and the camper was moved to it's new (temporary) home without too much trouble (ok so Josh had to stand on the tongue to add some weight to it but otherwise....well those straps were useful and the PVC pipe came in handy but.....ahhh never mind!)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 28, 2010, 10:28:48 AM
Hey don't laugh too hard. That could be handy some day.   ;D


Actualy I have a friend who has a similar camper on the front end of a long gooseneck flat bed trailer. He carries his modified CJ on the rear portion of the trailer. Pulls it all with a Powerstroke.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on September 28, 2010, 10:51:38 AM
That thing any good inside?  about this time every year I start wishing I had one of those ... would make heading up to my place much easier ... of course, if I actually finished the shed, I wouldn't have to think about a place to sleep  d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 28, 2010, 11:47:51 AM
That thing any good inside?  about this time every year I start wishing I had one of those ... would make heading up to my place much easier ... of course, if I actually finished the shed, I wouldn't have to think about a place to sleep  d*

Yes.

It's actually not too bad -- needs a little work (and a stove) but if you could use it you would be welcome to come pick it up and loan it as long as needed -- but if you want to bring it back you'll have to ask!!! hahahahahahahahaha

Seriously though, I might be willing to 'loan' the camper out to you.  It needs a tarp on top to keep the water out (we have one of those) or some kind of roof paint/tar to re water proof it.  The bed works, lights work etc.  We just took the stove out for the cabin :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 28, 2010, 11:49:04 AM
Hey don't laugh too hard. That could be handy some day.   ;D


Actualy I have a friend who has a similar camper on the front end of a long gooseneck flat bed trailer. He carries his modified CJ on the rear portion of the trailer. Pulls it all with a Powerstroke.

haha Don!  No thanks.  It's already off the trailer and back on it's own 4 legs (and a couple blocks) waiting to be moved (or moved away).....we have a nice mouse infested tent trailer for camping :)  d* ???
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: dmanley on September 28, 2010, 05:12:44 PM
Erik, we were camping last year at a Tn state park and actually saw a family with a set up similiar to this.  The camper was mounted on a flat bed trailer, which gave them some front porch area.  The unit was held onto the trailer with rachet straps.  Talk about redneck.  Kept wanting to get a picture of the thing but they were always sitting on their porch.  They probably would have been proud to have someone take a pic but I just didn't have the nerve to ask.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 28, 2010, 05:33:14 PM
Erik, we were camping last year at a Tn state park and actually saw a family with a set up similiar to this.  The camper was mounted on a flat bed trailer, which gave them some front porch area.  The unit was held onto the trailer with rachet straps.  Talk about redneck.  Kept wanting to get a picture of the thing but they were always sitting on their porch.  They probably would have been proud to have someone take a pic but I just didn't have the nerve to ask.

haha we used rachet straps to keep it from falling off!

Hey, DManley...is this Don?  My cousin? 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 28, 2010, 09:12:26 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSolarInstall6.jpg&hash=7a2908ff4d5e8d3b159750225bdae500)
Once we got the camper moved we began digging our hole.  We needed to go down 3 feet in rocky ground!  It actually took HAND digging at times!  Yes, seriously.  But we managed to get the pole concreted in (5 bags of concrete) and then began to work on the porch.

Once the porch was well underway and we'd given the concrete a couple days to set we installed the rack and panels.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSolarInstall.jpg&hash=95e6bb8a23c714ba0df8e02cd3abbc5a)

We used butyl (sp?) tape as a gasket between the panels and the rack and affixed them with all stainless steel bolts.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSolarInstall3.jpg&hash=3ca17385445982b62f3679a35572a403)
I didn't have the declination handy so set the poles to just past magnetic for now. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSolarNoon.jpg&hash=111c9301674666db6db25ba816b58973)
I noticed that we got full sun around 10am and that lasted until about 2pm.  Prior to 10am we had some minor shadows and after about 2-2:3-pm we had some shadows but they are all from trees that will be turned into lumber eventually.

I think we'll get about 6 hours of sun in the spring and fall...not sure about the winter yet.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSolarInstall2.jpg&hash=ecf92998d8739a879fa6bedb267a46b0)
Our backwoods solar set up ;)  Actually this is more of an R&D type install and I'll be replacing some of the wiring and shortening the 1/0 cables by quite a bit.  I changed much in my original plan but for now it all works and the batteries are on float :)  By around 4:30pm I watched the bank go from 12.54 vdc to 12.58vdc in a very short time as the controller took over and the panels provided the charge -- this AFTER the time I expected useful light :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSolarInstall4.jpg&hash=ba16cb3d54b58c0c73a0c321788584ae)
I finally managed to get the porch cleaned up and the temporary box more or less installed -- we were 4 hours past scheduled departure and I was very upset with the mess outside but alas, time was no longer a luxury so we rigged up and headed out in the road warrior for another 4 1/2 hour drive home.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSolarInstall5.jpg&hash=eaf474fc7dc794a509b324bd7cd00261)
I did get this last shot however, at just after 6pm on our way out...how I wish I had another day!!!

I plan to head back next week to clean up and finish the solar install....

but for now :D  We have POWER!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on September 28, 2010, 11:59:09 PM
OJ, looking good! First class adjustable mount.  [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on September 29, 2010, 04:31:32 AM
That thing any good inside?  about this time every year I start wishing I had one of those ... would make heading up to my place much easier ... of course, if I actually finished the shed, I wouldn't have to think about a place to sleep  d*

Yes.

It's actually not too bad -- needs a little work (and a stove) but if you could use it you would be welcome to come pick it up and loan it as long as needed -- but if you want to bring it back you'll have to ask!!! hahahahahahahahaha

Seriously though, I might be willing to 'loan' the camper out to you.  It needs a tarp on top to keep the water out (we have one of those) or some kind of roof paint/tar to re water proof it.  The bed works, lights work etc.  We just took the stove out for the cabin :)

Well, one of the reasons I haven't yet pulled the trigger on acquiring one of these already is that if I did, it would mean I'd have to actually clean out the back of my truck!  So don't hold your breath on me coming to "borrow" it   ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 29, 2010, 06:43:12 AM
OJ, looking good! First class adjustable mount.  [cool]

Thanks :)  My neighbor built it after we discussed what I was looking for -- cost was about 15% of what it costs to buy one!!!

I did break the stop nut for the rotating head though when I tried to tighten it too much :(  He'd welded the nut top and bottom and it worked fine until I decided I wanted it really tight  d*  So now I'm hoping it stays put until I can get someone with a welder up there to weld the nut all the way around.

Otherwise the mount works perfectly :)  Easy to rotate and tilt!  I can tilt those suckers at least 90 degrees!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 29, 2010, 06:44:17 AM
That thing any good inside?  about this time every year I start wishing I had one of those ... would make heading up to my place much easier ... of course, if I actually finished the shed, I wouldn't have to think about a place to sleep  d*

Yes.

It's actually not too bad -- needs a little work (and a stove) but if you could use it you would be welcome to come pick it up and loan it as long as needed -- but if you want to bring it back you'll have to ask!!! hahahahahahahahaha

Seriously though, I might be willing to 'loan' the camper out to you.  It needs a tarp on top to keep the water out (we have one of those) or some kind of roof paint/tar to re water proof it.  The bed works, lights work etc.  We just took the stove out for the cabin :)

Well, one of the reasons I haven't yet pulled the trigger on acquiring one of these already is that if I did, it would mean I'd have to actually clean out the back of my truck!  So don't hold your breath on me coming to "borrow" it   ;D

Dag nammit!  ??? d*

Actually, that's ok, but if you want to borrow it I'd be happy to let you, though I would actually want it back!  We like having it actually and hope to fix it up some day.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Solar Burrito on September 29, 2010, 07:31:54 AM
Wow, what a power setup, very impressed I am.  [cool] Over 600 watts and all that power and being in Eastern WA you're going to get all the power you need, way more I suspect. crank up the Disco lights and the fog machine it's time for a vulgar display of solar power../  ;D haha maybe I got carried away but this will be a template for my ideal setup eventually.

Our new cabin is tall like yours and is currently blocking our 75watt panel on the shed.   d* We haven't run out of juice
 though... not enough lights to drain it...

Dang you got alot of work done, nice work.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 29, 2010, 08:22:09 AM
Wow, what a power setup, very impressed I am.  [cool] Over 600 watts and all that power and being in Eastern WA you're going to get all the power you need, way more I suspect. crank up the Disco lights and the fog machine it's time for a vulgar display of solar power../  ;D haha maybe I got carried away but this will be a template for my ideal setup eventually.

Our new cabin is tall like yours and is currently blocking our 75watt panel on the shed.   d* We haven't run out of juice
 though... not enough lights to drain it...

Dang you got alot of work done, nice work.

Thanks :)

Really, it was MountainDon that got me going and taught me a ton -- and of course I studied his threads on solar power extensively :D  But I'm still learning a ton!

I used to build MW Backhaul sites for the cell carriers and it often involved wiring up DC power systems so that part of this job was pretty simple compared to those larger systems.  However, as usual I forgot too much!

My list of things to fix:

1.  Bring at least 20 feet of 10awg wire (to replace various other gauges -- all bigger -- that I scrounged at the last minute.
2.  Cut and re-terminate the 1/0 to fit better.
3.  Put the ground rod in and run grounds to everything (our neighbor tells us it will work out in the rocks because the ground rod will just wind it's way down past them all -- like a corkscrew).
4.  Clean up the darn mess!
5.  Seal off the porch and finish the gable end as well as rafter ties.
6.  Buck up the fallen trees and get the branches ready for burning in the winter

And so much more!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 30, 2010, 02:08:14 PM
Looks like I'm making a quick trip to the cabin this weekend!  I just got hired in a new job and will start Tuesday (my choice so I could go clean up the cabin and get the door on the porch)....less time to work on the cabin but that's ok :) :D

BACK TO WORK!  WHOOHOO!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 30, 2010, 02:38:12 PM
 [cool]  Happy for you here!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on September 30, 2010, 06:29:00 PM
[cool]  Happy for you here!

Thanks Don :D  c*

It should be fun stuff; all Ethernet over fiber networks.  I'll start out fusion splicing fiber routes and doing 'as builts' and then move over to system commissioning and programming (all things I've done before except I've not spliced outside of training)...the awesome thing is that splicers make decent $$ :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on September 30, 2010, 06:56:14 PM
Do you still have to pass a color blindness test?  There were too many colors and combinations in the old copper wire systems for me to be able to sort them out.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rick91351 on September 30, 2010, 08:46:34 PM
Erik great job, good to hear you found work!  Close by?  Your porch - I think you will find, will have the most functionality of any of the designs cussed and discussed.  It looks very good, goes well with the cabin.  It will certainly help keep the snow away from the door in the winter time, should decide to stage a little winter get away.  Looks like your days were very full as you had planed.  You power project seemed to really have come together well in the larger scope of things.   Your weather I see is cooperating nicely.  Ours down here in southern Idaho pretty normal for this time of year.  Indian Summer and in eighties and even nineties a few days.  Hardly a cloud in the sky... [cool]       
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on October 01, 2010, 07:44:50 AM
Looks like I'm making a quick trip to the cabin this weekend!  I just got hired in a new job and will start Tuesday (my choice so I could go clean up the cabin and get the door on the porch)....less time to work on the cabin but that's ok :) :D

BACK TO WORK!  WHOOHOO!

Congrats!  I'm sure you'll bemoan the fact (like me) that now you don't have a lot of time for cabin jobs ... but the money coming in is always nice!  ;D

So details, man! Details!

Is it close to home or are you going to have to commute on the weekends?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 04, 2010, 05:52:40 PM
Just got in from a whirlwind trip to the cabin to try to button up a few things before starting the new job :)

The new job is at WindWave Communications and I'll be a 'Network Technician' (of sorts).  Going back to fiber back-haul stuff primarily (Ethernet over Fiber) and will start out splicing and working outside plant.  The job is close enough that I'll be home nightly (unless I have to travel to Eastern Oregon then I'll probably stay a night or two depending on the work).  Seems like a good gig :)

I've got pics and details of the cabin trip coming soon -- thanks all!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 04, 2010, 06:57:15 PM
We arrived Friday around 7:30pm (dark this time of year) and Josh (step son) asked if we could turn on a light!  So, we temp wired up the inverter and plugged in the drop lite/trouble lite with a CFL in it and...
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0017-2.jpg&hash=bac165a5a65fc1515a8960b7f572afa2)
Inverter

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0018-2.jpg&hash=64bf355325337ce2afe5c7ce24bfb9a4)
WE HAVE LIGHT!

The little CFL did well by itself actually, but we also lit up the gas lamps so we could move in for the weekend with plenty of light.

Once we were moved in Josh headed into the loft and kicked on the old TV and Playstation to enjoy a little 'Dark Alliance' before bed without having to worry about turning the generator off when he was done :)  He likes that  [cool]

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0022-1.jpg&hash=d18ada9513fd9b482e84a4c162761b57)
Not the best shot but hey, we have power :)

I can't tell you how satisfying it is to have your own power source!  No matter how much work you need to do to complete the install it's just darn nice :)

Saturday we got busy cleaning the place up and noticed a tree blocking the solar panels at 10:30am.  Since we planned on removing that tree anyway I got out the Huskvarna 455 and dropped it RIGHT where I wanted it :) Growing up in logging towns has it's advantages ;) Since we were at it we also bucked off the branches on a previous tree and bucked it into cant sized logs for milling at a later date.

We then got busy and installed our new door.  We'd goofed on the framing and framed the door opening 2" too short so pulled out the sawzall and pugged it into the solar power to cut out the framing and then fixed the issue -- so nice.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0029-1.jpg&hash=3a11bab8b9024837f57cc1e7e56c240c)

Sunday we had big plans but somehow I derailed those and got pounding in the ground rod.  At five feet down Josh and I ran out of steam and pliable earth!!!
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0043.jpg&hash=ec82328e435c777d5b0f6a395f9bf6ae)

We could not budge the rod anymore so gave up for another day.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0050-2.jpg&hash=98070aa41458cb95ca4526285cf9cd9e)
I did some cleanup work on the solar setup but still need to install some wire nuts, conduit, ground rod, clean up the wiring, shorten some of the 1/0 and on and on but for now it works.

Oh and who on earth puts robertson screws in electronics?  The iota charger has robertson screws so I couldn't hook it up because my drivers were 240 miles away....grrrrrr

Finally, we got the ridge vent in and I began installing the ridge cap...and realized I could not properly install it :(  d*  I will have to put scaffolding up I guess because there is no way to sit on it (I'd crush it) or hang a ladder off it (crush it again) so I screwed the ends on and got as many scews in as I could then placed the center on by standing on a ladder leaning against the roof from the porch while my son held it -- don't ask.

I think it will work for the winter.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0057-1.jpg&hash=2ebc25445fffa3cd31cdaea746728517)
We left the place after some cleanup and packing up all the main saws etc (hated leaving them up there for the last year and since we don't need them there they are safe and sound at home now!) and pulled the mouse infested tent trailer back home for repairs and winterizing (and introduction to the cat).

Was a good weekend though and I look forward to the next trip since it will involve very little work on the cabin -- just some minor clean up -- and lots of tramping in the woods looking for deer! :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 04, 2010, 07:12:03 PM

Oh and who on earth puts robertson screws in electronics?  The iota charger has robertson screws so I couldn't hook it up because my drivers were 240 miles away....grrrrrr

Hmmm... mine uses hex socket. Probably different parts suppliers.

Back home in Canada, 25 years ago, Robertson were common in household wiring devices. I actually like them better than Phillips.


The porch looks nice.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on October 05, 2010, 06:31:39 AM
Must fell really good landing a new job, and finishing off all the projects at the cabin  :)


I have a question, what is the big white box next to the charge controller ? I'm thinking disconnect ? Don't forget to vent the battery box to the outdoors also.


The porch looks like it will turn out real nice.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Don_P on October 05, 2010, 08:37:19 AM
I tend to either straddle the ridge or walk the screwheads along one side with a slack rope over the far side. Those are both pretty taxing. I've also set blocks of nailed together 2x on either side of the ridge and run a rope overtop to ladders that are tied together over the ridge (Tie the ladders down at the bottoms). That works but is a hassle. I've seen drawings or pics  ??? of a lightweight seat made of scrap ply that straddles the ridge and bears on either side, leaving room for the ridgecap to move around underneath. With 2 of these you can leapfrog your way down the roof.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 05, 2010, 09:59:19 AM


I have a question, what is the big white box next to the charge controller ? I'm thinking disconnect ?


That appears to be a Midnight Solar disconnect cabinet.  Available with different sized DC rated breakers.  


Re: the ground rod; it might be advisable to add a second rod in another location and hope for better luck. It sounds like that one hit a rock dead center and no amount of pounding will help, unless the rock gives in and cracks. Connect one rod to the other and leave a single ground wire run to the system.


The batteries are on the porch? Is that right? Are those 4 vent holes in the back panel, behind the batteries? 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on October 05, 2010, 12:16:16 PM
RE Oljarhead: Had to look up "Robertson Screws". Around here everyone just calls them 'square drive'.

Also on the ground rod. When I was living in Montana I saw electricians bury the ground rod horizontally, say 1 foot or more deep. Sometimes they used a braided copper cable and buried several feet of it along with the rod. This was in very rocky ground.

RE MTDon: After a short search you  are right that is a Midnight Solar disconnect cabinet. It looks like Eric has a 12 volt branch circuit set up too.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 05, 2010, 05:45:18 PM
Thanks guys!  I'll try to answer some questions as I got in late from the new job (had a GREAT! Day :) ) and had to make up some chow for the kids and I (wife is at work still) and just sat down.

OK first :)  YES!  It feels AWESOME to be blessed with both a new job and to have prepped the cabin for the winter (mostly).  My wife wants me to order the roofing for the porch to get it done before the snow! :D  Gotta love her!!!  I LOVE ordering new cabin stuff! :D  [cool]

Midnight Solar disco box with 250amp breaker.  I've since learned that the breaker matches the 2500 watt inverter and it's 1/0 cable because it can draw 208amps at 2500 watts.  So it makes sense.

To the left is of course the Xantrex C40 charge controller and on the cabin wall is the AIMS 2500 watt modified inverter (CFL's work nicely with it :D ).  Then below that is the Iota 750watt charger that will run off the generator.

I'll be pulling 12vdc for the composter and a ceiling fan and perhaps a small stereo someday -- and who knows what else -- still working on that.

The holes in the battery box were originally drilled for wiring but there was no way I was going to get the 1/0 through them so left them.  For venting I plan to run a large vent through the side of the box to the outside via the porch wall.

The idea was to provide security (somewhat anyway) and warmth to the battery box and solar power stuff -- the warmth via the sun and greenhouse effect (crossing fingers).  The porch gets quite warm because of all the windows and I'm hoping with insulation it might keep the batteries from freezing.

On the ground rod -- THANKS!  Don you are the man :D  I'll be pounding a second in somewhere nearby and if that doesn't work then I'll try the Montana special  ;D :o of laying something down a foot or more horizontally.

I've also got a Midnight solar box outside the porch which I'll post later.  So basically the panels are in series providing 60vdc (open) to the outside box.  There is a breaker there for them and the box is designed to add more sets of panels without having to add another box -- just plug in another breaker -- so if I wanted to add 3 more of the same panels/same votlage etc I could add a breaker and tie them together in the box.  I've left pull tape in the conduit going to the panels -- did anyone notice the goof there *snicker*?

Then the cables run to a breaker in the main disco box and the C40 and to the batteries etc...I'll have to post a diagram soon.

One thing I've learned:  don't attempt to run the 370 watt AC heater/dehydrator for the compost toilet system without planning to run the generator soon or installing a boatload more panels and batteries!!!  I wanted to test it out and soon discovered it drained the bank fast!  I then read it was drawing 370 watts not 3.5!  I guess the AC fan is 3.5 but the heater takes it up to 370 -- I won't be using that unless I'm running the generator.

Anyway, cheers!
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on October 06, 2010, 12:21:09 AM
Erik, when you get the diagram done, I will be honored to do a Visio layout for you. It makes it alot easier to explain/troubleshoot if a large layout is printed and mounted nearby the system.

I had my first visitor to Dad's shop over the weekend to check out the solar panels. The gentleman was 73 years old and he has started putting some panels in place and "experimenting".

I certainly will be glad when engineers get capacitors to the point that you can meter their output and we can start using them instead/with batteries... Could you imagine charging your capacitor bank fully in a few seconds of full sun!

Enjoy that cabin!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 06, 2010, 05:35:54 AM
imagine charging your capacitor bank fully in a few seconds of full sun!


I understand how capacitors build their charge very rapidly; no issue with that. Their ability to be put through unlimited (?) charge/discharge cycles would be a huge benefit by itself, when costs are reasonable. But here's where I get lost with that recharging in a few seconds thing. The capacitors can only charge as fast as the amount of power available. PV modules have a fixed maximum output; so much sun and so many square feet of surface area = so much electrical energy. So unless there is a change in PV module technology as well, it is still going to take more time than a few seconds to charge the capacitors, isn't it?  Or one could increase the number of PV modules, but then they would sit there un-used once the capacitors are fully charged; that's a waste. That's assuming the super/ultra capacitor storage system is storing the same total amount of energy as the present battery bank.  Or what am I missing?  ??? 

I believe we would reach full charge quicker with capacitors than with batteries, as the capacitors would do away with the very slow last phase of battery charging. However, the replacement of the bulk of the used energy would be governed by the power available, which is limited by the PV module. So I think we'd still be looking at hours to recharge, not seconds.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on October 06, 2010, 08:41:01 AM
MtnDon, I guess what I was alluding to was that capacitors reach their charged capacity in a shorter relative time frame than batteries reach theirs.
Although it is an apples/oranges comparision, they both store and release energy, I read an article that stated this was going to be the next big energy storage device once the metered discharge was conquered.
Price may be prohibitive though.
If we could figure out how to product electricity from a dark sky...

 

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on October 06, 2010, 10:43:55 AM
MtnDon, I guess what I was alluding to was that capacitors reach their charged capacity in a shorter relative time frame than batteries reach theirs.
Although it is an apples/oranges comparision, they both store and release energy, I read an article that stated this was going to be the next big energy storage device once the metered discharge was conquered.
Price may be prohibitive though.
If we could figure out how to product electricity from a dark sky...

 



ZPM   ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 17, 2010, 06:40:39 PM
Just got back from a weekend at the cabin :)  We managed to get the rest of the drywall up and prepped for mudding and got about 1/2 of the lower portion of the cabin insulated which was nice since it hit 20 degrees Friday night and 18 Saturday night!  We kept warm with the woodstove going all weekend (all weekend!) and had a great dinner of buffalo chili that was warmed in the Dutch Oven on the stove for a few hours :)

Finished that off with some Single Barrel JD and Chess :)

Was a good weekend -- also spent some time walking around in the woods in Orange with Rifles pretending to hunt but what we were really doing was enjoying the mountain air and looking forward to getting back to the cabin to sit by the wood stove :D

No pics this time but maybe next!

My new job is of course taking me away from the both the PC and thinking and posting about cabins but I suspect it won't be long before I have time to do more and tell more.

Cheers
Erik

PS.  The solar power is running great :D  Batteries at full power when we arrived and remained there all weekend pretty much!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on October 18, 2010, 08:02:45 AM
Sounds like a sweet weekend, jarhead...

I plan on heading up to my place in a couple weeks with the bow and a few arrows to pretend that I'm hunting elk.  Then, I hope the weekend after Thanksgiving to do it again and pretend to hunt deer.

Of course, I won't have as warm a place to hang out in!  It sounds like your place is turning into a very nice retreat.  Good job!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 18, 2010, 03:33:25 PM
Quote from: OlJarhead link=topic=7672.msg124215#msg124215 date=1287373239

 20 degrees
[/quote

Yeow!  We haven't even hit freezing yet, close but that doesn't count.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 20, 2010, 04:55:15 AM
Good luck Java!  You see, you shoulda picked up that camper from me ;)

Don, the coldest it's been when I was there was 10 degrees last December but I know it can get a LOT colder then that.  This year is expected to be colder with a lot more snow and the next three are supposed to be MUCH colder!!!

Gotta get that insulation in!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on October 20, 2010, 09:27:18 AM
Good luck Java!  You see, you shoulda picked up that camper from me ;)

Don, the coldest it's been when I was there was 10 degrees last December but I know it can get a LOT colder then that.  This year is expected to be colder with a lot more snow and the next three are supposed to be MUCH colder!!!

Gotta get that insulation in!

Yeah, I've asked for snowshoes for Christmas!  I figure if I ever want to get up into the place before July next year, I might need them! And a snowmobile is a bit too much money to spend. Two years ago I still couldn't make it up there on Memorial Day weekend - I got to within about 3/4 mile and couldn't go any further.

The historical data for my place says the low average is around 5-10 degrees.  There are a few outliers at below zero temps, but not many ... maybe that's because I'm south of you? d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: upa on October 20, 2010, 10:51:01 AM
5-10 degrees  ??? that's like sweater weather or least open jacket weather in the Prairies(honestly, I'm not kidding :(). My cabin thermometer was down to -26F more often than not last year.

Ok, now we need to hear from you Alaskan types on how much colder it gets :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Woodswalker on October 20, 2010, 05:01:06 PM
Yo Erik,

Was over at my cabin this past week about 50 miles E of you.  Got to 17 degrees, and I was taking stuff out of the RV fridge to keep it from freezing so solid!  Nearly finished installing laminate flooring.  Moved some rustic furniture, rugs, bunkbed, etc. out of storage trailer and into the cabin.  Really starting to enjoy the place now.  Good insulation makes a huge difference.  Used the small woodstove on cold mornings until 10 AM or so, when sun took over warming things up.  Bagged a nice spike buck Monday morning.  Closed everything up for the winter.

Glad you guys got out into the woods some.  Really good to hear your solar system is working well.  Am sure the enthusiasm in your posts is motivating others to give it a go.

Steve
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 21, 2010, 05:46:09 AM
Snowshoes!  I told my wife I want a couple sets for 'just in case'....but big agressive V groove chains and 4 wheel drive will get you there!  Thanks to Don and others here for convincing me to get those chains when I ran into 4 INCHES of solid ice on our road...ya it was a piece of cake once the chains went on :)

Alaskan cold?  Don't know about them but when my family moved to BC in 1967 it dropped to -59 degrees at our cabin in Vanderhoof BC WITHOUT FACTORING WIND CHILL.  Dawson Creek hit -75 and killed all power in town.  Several lost their lives :(  That winter we lived in an A Frame cabin with no insulation and a wood furnace and wood cook stove...ice formed INSIDE and we slept above the wood stove to stay warm and not freeze to death (literally).  The next winter we stayed in a friends cabin that actually had insulation but it made little difference (so it must not have been good)...I'll post a pic of that cabin here :)

In Hazleton when I was 14 we had a lengthy period at -35 to -40 and I was so used to it that I thought it was beautiful when the air froze :)  Yes air freezes...but we lived in a small house by then.

Woodsman:  you lucky dog!  We didn't see a single Buck and this weekend my son wants to chase them in the wind farms out of Dayton so we're headed there Saturday Morning.  We'll hunt a draw we know of in the AM and the wind farms in the PM then do it again on Sunday.  We GPS'd some bucks the last two years so we know where they are but they tend to stroll up out of the brush (where we can't go) right before dusk...sneaky buggers!

Honestly, thanks to MountainDon I really went full steam on the solar (and probably drove Don nuts for months on end -- thanks for putting up with me Don!) and I'm ecstatic :)  Don's and Glenn have been a HUGE help!  ANd I have MUCH to learn yet, but it's up and running and I can tell you, it isn't really that hard to do.  It's the $$$ that makes it tough if you are on a tight budget, but it's worth it!

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on October 21, 2010, 03:36:13 PM
Snow shoes. We have MSR Denali snow shoes.

I like them as there are different extension tails available to allow for different weights of user (&pack or no pack) and differing snow conditions. Metal 'grabbers' for ice traction. They work well for us. For those who are more adventuresome, steeper trails, sidehills etc) there is another model with more metal grippers.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51YSYYNC2KL._AA300_.jpg&hash=033fcc7696f0651028f2377f2785f9de)

We got ours through REI but they haven't got them at present. Amazon does though
http://www.amazon.com/MSR-Denali-Classic/dp/B0009ROF32][url]http://www.amazon.com/MSR-Denali-Classic/dp/B0009ROF32 (http://[url)[/url]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on October 21, 2010, 04:45:49 PM
Yeah, but do they have enough extensions for my weight? ???  Those might reach all the way across the mountains to my house! d*

I am working on getting rid of the excess, but it's not going very fast (I married a good cook!)

(We now return you to your regular oljarhead thread)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on October 22, 2010, 02:25:00 AM

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/search/search.aspx?r=MainHeader+KW+Box&s=&a=browse&k=snowshoes
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 22, 2010, 05:02:12 AM
Yeah, but do they have enough extensions for my weight? ???  Those might reach all the way across the mountains to my house! d*

I am working on getting rid of the excess, but it's not going very fast (I married a good cook!)

(We now return you to your regular oljarhead thread)

At 260lbs in my birthday suit (scary sight!) I'm sure I need the XXXXXL set!  But I plan to look into it :P

Speaking of losing weight, I found a way that works well for me anyway :)

1.  Drink two 20-24oz bottles of water mixed with ACT a day
2.  Skip lunch 3 days in a row and then eat whatever the heck I want on the 4
3.  Repeat until you've lost enough weight
4.  Repeat as needed to keep the weight off.

I dropped from 280 to 260 in about 2 to 3 months and have kept that 20 lbs off for 3 years.  Doc tells me all my blood work has improved (High BP) and to keep it up -- though I know ACT is part of the reason.

You can check out ACT here: http://www.drinkactweb.com/19001444

I don't normally mention it and hope it's ok to do so now but this is a small business that I got into about 4 years ago and while I don't really make any money off of it (I suppose I could if I actually tried to) I drink the product twice daily and the doctor keeps saying:  I don't know what you are doing, but you keep doing it!!!

Sign up is a bit of a pain in the rear but signing up (for free) gets you the product cheaper ($1/drink with the Act Packs) -- just scroll to bottom repeated and hit 'skip this step'.  Or you can try it retail if you want.

I am also willing to send free samples to anyone who doesn't want to go through the hassle of signing up to try it but keep it to a dull roar please becuase I'm sending what I drink!  So it's MY SUPPLIES hehehehe.....and I need it to keep cabin building :D :D :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on October 28, 2010, 09:32:33 AM
Once again I have to thank MountainDon for his fantastic ideas and excellent engineering!  [cool]

I now think I know how I'm going to improve composting waste (Sunmar Centrex AC/DC 2000 model) during the winter!  I've been working on the enclosure for it and plan to complete it soon and have decided that Don's food heating idea is for me! :D

So, I'll steel the 6 gallon hot water tank from the camper (or get another one) and install it inside the enclosure with the Composting tank for the toilet.  I'll set it up with the pilot light running whenever we aren't at the cabin and will turn on the hot water when we are there (to improve composting).  I'll super insulate the enclosure also and use a heat exchanger (oil cooler/tranny cooler) to keep the enclosure warm enough to prevent the composter from freezing.

Also while at the cabin I can crank up the generator for 4 hours in the AM daily (if need be) in order to run the dehydrator which has an additional heater.

Between these steps (and insulating the vent stacks and sewage pipe) I should be able to continue composting long after daily temps don't get above 55 degrees :)

Thanks Don!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on October 28, 2010, 11:10:45 AM
Erik,

You may be able to get a few feet of left over hydronic baseboard, just the copper pipe and fin, from a local plumbing and HVAC contractor for free or scrap price.  Some outfits throw out or recycle pipe if it is not a certain length. Get a few short lengths and solder them together. Either way good luck.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on October 28, 2010, 12:58:10 PM
Or maybe something like this, if you can figure out how to get it and some tile under the composter...

http://www.homedepot.com/Flooring-Under-Floor-Heating/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1ximZapte/R-100607080/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 10, 2010, 06:06:52 AM
Josh and I made it up last weekend to try our hand at Elk hunting...this meant we spent loads of time just trying to find out WHERE the Elk were.  We did eventually find an area that looked very promising...at the end of hunting light on Saturday :(

But we have a place to start at next year I guess :)

One person once said to me "don't you just go out in the woods with your rifle, shoot your deer and then go home"?  Ya sure, and pigs fly too!

Anyway, we have been burning less then idea wood in the stove and it began to breath less efficiently by the end of the weekend.  So, upon coming home I read the manual and discovered I can do a few things:

1.  Clean out the air outlet/inlet (??) from ashes etc.
2.  Remove the ashes daily before refueling.
3.  Get some dang seasoned wood instead of burning somewhat still green pine.

Not sure if I'll get to #3 soon, but I've got a chimney brush and will clean the stove air inlets next trip.

We also managed to score a small sink and counter from work yesterday which will serve as a temp counter/cupboard/sink for the cabin until we have time to put in a larger counter etc.

And finally, we've decided that while the camper stove works, it's a bit dangerous becuase it needs to be rebuilt and leaks a little -- so you can't leave the propane on.  So we're thinking of looking at the Sears stoves that I think Don and Yonderosa bought. 

Besides, we'd have an oven then too :)

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 10, 2010, 06:31:22 AM
With our VC Aspen I've found that if I pull and dump the ash tray every day I have virtually no ash spilling out of it and into the bottom area where it fits. When the ash piles up in the ash tray it can then be knocked off the top when the tray is extracted. In the depths of winter when we might be burning more wood I sometimes dump the ash tray twice. Dry wood makes a big difference.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on November 11, 2010, 09:39:10 AM
Dry wood makes a big difference. .....actually, its pretty much the whole show.   

I rattled my faith in my ability to get a fire going when I started camping in the cabin.  I had a heck of a time. 

After a few months, the cord I was working through got plenty dry....and fires became a piece o cake.. duh.

This year I stacked the first cord in June.  When the weather got cold, it was ready to go and fire tending is a breeze, and I'm going through a fair amount.  I think this winter will be colder than the last one.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Shawn B on November 12, 2010, 11:04:09 AM
Erik,

Did you install the fresh air intake yet? That may help things a little.

I second what Mt Don, and Considerations said, burn the most seasoned wood first.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 12, 2010, 11:34:51 AM
Erik, Trying to burn wet/green wood can be an exercise in frustration as well as accelerating the need to clean to chimney more often.

Our cabin range is a 20" Hotpoint we got through Lowes. There are many models. From what I could tell from reading do not get one with electronic ignition. Even though the burners can be lit with a flame when there is no power, the oven won't work at all, at least on one of the ones I investigated.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on November 12, 2010, 01:38:10 PM
Erik,

Sorry I didn't make it up there last weekend - I was caught up in a remodel of the downstairs bathroom!  Since I'm off work, there are a bunch of "Honey-do's" that are magically appearing.  So I figured I'd head up this weekend, but the truck tells me otherwise. it is missing badly.  I thought it might be one of the COP (Coil Over Plug)  modules but apparently not, so now I'm trying to track down what it actually is.

If I can't find it by Tuesday I have an appointment with the local garage.

I still am planning on trying to get in up there for late archery deer season in December.

Sounds like you had a good time, tho.  Sorry to hear that no elk were seen.  They were all probably hiding at my place, knowing that I wasn't going to be there.  d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 13, 2010, 01:54:26 PM
Thanks All,

Being an old camper I've had no trouble firing the stove.  With my set up it requires priming first but I've got that down (just put 3-5 crumpled pages of newspaper in the back of the stove, light with the door open and let burn out.

I try to use the driest kindling I've got and rarely have an issue.

But, perhaps two things got me:

1.  I didn't empty the ash tray every day -- for some reason I thought it better to let the fire die off first -- not so!
2.  Burning pine isn't great to begin with, burning wet pine is worse still!  But it's what I've for for now.  My neighbor tells me that it's ok as long as it's burned hot.

I bought a chimney brush etc so am set to clean regularily but didn't expect the loss of incoming air!  The draft is working fine as long as the door is ajar but that won't do so next trip I'm pulling the ash tray and air plate and cleaning everything before starting a fire.

I didn't get the intake installed yet either but haven't been concerned since the cabin is open at the peak until the ceiling is installed etc....but perhaps it might help anyway?

Anyway, I'm drying wood as we speak but it will take 12-18 months before it's truly cured so I may just have to break down and buy a cord or two of seasoned firewood...ug
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on November 13, 2010, 03:45:17 PM
Thanks All,

Being an old camper I've had no trouble firing the stove.  With my set up it requires priming first but I've got that down (just put 3-5 crumpled pages of newspaper in the back of the stove, light with the door open and let burn out.

I try to use the driest kindling I've got and rarely have an issue.

But, perhaps two things got me:

1.  I didn't empty the ash tray every day -- for some reason I thought it better to let the fire die off first -- not so!

Seldom empty the ashes out until I see that the loading capacity is being deminished.  Even then I don't completely empty them all and leave an inch or so in the bottom as insulation and protection for the bottom of the stove to keep it from burning out prematurely.

2.  Burning pine isn't great to begin with, burning wet pine is worse still!  But it's what I've for for now.  My neighbor tells me that it's ok as long as it's burned hot. 

Burn very little of large pine.  Only use some small stuff as kindlin.  If it is extremely dry it will burn without too much cresote but wet I would try to stay away from

I bought a chimney brush etc so am set to clean regularily but didn't expect the loss of incoming air!  The draft is working fine as long as the door is ajar but that won't do so next trip I'm pulling the ash tray and air plate and cleaning everything before starting a fire.

Cold fllues will not operate efficently.  So unless you have burned alot of wet or semi wet at low draft it is doubtfull that the flue needs cleaned this soon after installation.  If you can start a light fire and leave the door open until the hot air draws up it should burn better until it is left to go out.  If I am lucky and catch a good day mid season I might try to clean mine.  If not it will burn from Mid Oct to March.  Occassionally if it has died down I may take the elbow/damper assembly off and give it a quick clean.  I have an alternate to divert the smoke when I clean the primary joints.
I didn't get the intake installed yet either but haven't been concerned since the cabin is open at the peak until the ceiling is installed etc....but perhaps it might help anyway?

Anyway, I'm drying wood as we speak but it will take 12-18 months before it's truly cured so I may just have to break down and buy a cord or two of seasoned firewood...ug

If you can split a portion of it smaller it will take less time to dry out.  Yes it may take a little more wood to fill it up but smaller pieces do dry faster.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on November 13, 2010, 04:58:05 PM
For John and everyone else's info... The VC Aspen has an ash tray under the firebox bottom. The firebox cast iron plate has slots for air to enter from underneath and for ashes to fall through. I think VC should have built it with a slightly deeper pan, but they did not. Under that is the cast iron stove bottom, then the sheet metal heat shield.  When the wood is thoroughly burned there is little left on the grate; it falls through into the pan. The VC Aspen is also not meant to be burned with the door open. With the door open the secondary chamber will not fire properly resulting in more smoke and gases out the chimney. It will also use wood faster and make more creosote.

I found a vast improvement in the burn after the fresh air kit was installed. And absolutely no need to open a door or window for draft.

I have mentioned this elsewhere before, but will repeat. I have a turbocharger on our air inlet. A muffin fan, approx 4 to 5 inch dia. It fits (is taped with aluminum tape) onto the vent hood I used. I place a good handful of pine needles in the firebox, a few pieces of kindling, then split wood on top of that. I hit the needles with a blast from my propane torch and they ignite quickly. Close the door and hit the switch to blow air into the stove. The fire never goes out, always gets of to a great start. I can not tell any difference in the stove operation with or without the fan left on the intake and turned off.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg91874#msg91874 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg91874#msg91874)

In many parts of the west there is not much choice in firewood, you choose between pine, spruce and fir. Not much difference there. I think Oljarhead is in the same boat as we are. We have no problem with creosote build up but I'm using wood that has sat through at least 2 summers.

FYI, creosote will not form on the chimney walls when the interior surface of the flue is 250F or higher. I haven't figured out how to measue that inside the flue with a fire going.  d* ;D  Wet wood will produce a lot of steam and that holds the temperature of the flue gases down.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 21, 2010, 07:29:01 PM
Looks like we may finally get back to the cabin next weekend :)  I've told my step son it will have to be a wood chopping winter prepping only weekend.

We plan to bring in a couple rolls of insulation to help with the cold; it looks like it will be -26 degrees on Wednesday night but warming up to 11 on Thanksgiving day and 9 Thursday night.  With luck it will be closer to freezing on Friday and not drop too much over the weekend!  We will need the warmer weather (yes freezing is MUCH warmer then MINUS 26) to get some wood chopped and stack and maybe cut down some dead dry trees (their wood will be drier then some of what we have now).

Once we've stuffed in a couple rolls of insulation we should set to make it through the weekend as long as we sleep near the wood stove (and I can get it cleaned out well enough).

Going to be a COLD COLD winter!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 21, 2010, 07:32:28 PM
Quote
Friday: A 40 percent chance of snow. Cloudy, with a high near 20.

Friday Night: Snow likely. Cloudy, with a low around 14. Chance of precipitation is 60%.

Saturday: Snow likely. Cloudy, with a high near 24. Chance of precipitation is 60%.

Saturday Night: Snow likely. Cloudy, with a low around 15. Chance of precipitation is 60%.

Sunday: Snow likely. Cloudy, with a high near 26. Chance of precipitation is 60%.

Looks like it might be nice and balmy this weekend :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2010, 03:50:39 PM
Still haven't made it to the cabin this month!  Grrr....but I think we'll make it this weekend.

I had to work most weekends which hurt a little (but pays off) and then needed a new alternator and header in the Jeep (Banks header broke for the 2nd time).

Now the XJ is happy and I might escape work for the weekend!  SO it will be serious wood cutting time and some insulation work to help keep us warm -- also have to clean out stove.

While I'm at it I decided to buy a BIG radio for the XJ :D  Ordered a factory refurb Galaxy DX 959 :D :D  My local 2-way shop told me to get the refurb because Galaxy does it right and then to bring it in to them for a peak and tune ($12).

Then he tells me he can do mild to wild on the radio :D  for those using CB's out there who aren't familiar with the 959 it's both the 40 CB channels plus SSB (Single Side Band) and is made on a 10m radio platform (sold as a 10m in Europe I believe) -- thus, this 11m (CB) radio can be tuned to 10M (Ham) also :D

Of course you have to have a HAM license to get it converted to 10M (theoretically).  In my case I won't be modding it to 10M but like that I 'could' have it done some day if I get my HAM license.

On a side note, the Single Side Band mode allows skip which means that when you'd up at the cabin and in trouble without cell coverage you can use skip (if weather/atmospheric conditions are right anyway) to reach out a LONG ways -- some have skipped 11M over 2000 miles!  (FCC allows only 155miles but um, ya right).

Anyway, with a full power CB and 12watt SSB you can talk to folks a LONG way off :D  And with a 108" antenna you will REACH out to folks....and that is what I want.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: phalynx on November 30, 2010, 05:39:39 PM
Hehehe,, you just took me back a few years.  I had a RCI-2950 with shoes.....  I loved that radio!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MikeOnBike on November 30, 2010, 05:51:20 PM
We don't have phone or cell service at our camp.  We do have a fairly good access to a Ham 2 meter repeater.  It's about 30 mi. north.  This allows someone in camp to communicate with someone in our home town a 100 mi. away.  In addition to communications for emergencies my wife who has been at camp all week can contact me to make sure I bring up ice and TP on my way up Fri. night.

The first level Tech license is real easy to get and if you can hit a repeater you can cover a lot of distance.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on November 30, 2010, 07:47:23 PM
Hehehe,, you just took me back a few years.  I had a RCI-2950 with shoes.....  I loved that radio!

From what I've read the 959 doesn't need the shoes :)  but then maybe with shoes it would really kick it out there!  I imagine the 108" antenna and the 959 peak and tuned will give me some serious 11m range...but I'll have it tweaked into the 10M band once I learn how to use it and go get my HAM>
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: phalynx on November 30, 2010, 08:30:56 PM
We don't have phone or cell service at our camp.  We do have a fairly good access to a Ham 2 meter repeater.  It's about 30 mi. north.  This allows someone in camp to communicate with someone in our home town a 100 mi. away.  In addition to communications for emergencies my wife who has been at camp all week can contact me to make sure I bring up ice and TP on my way up Fri. night.

The first level Tech license is real easy to get and if you can hit a repeater you can cover a lot of distance.

A repeater with a phone patch is really useful.  I don't know if there are any around there but we have a couple around here.
Hehehe,, you just took me back a few years.  I had a RCI-2950 with shoes.....  I loved that radio!

From what I've read the 959 doesn't need the shoes :)  but then maybe with shoes it would really kick it out there!  I imagine the 108" antenna and the 959 peak and tuned will give me some serious 11m range...but I'll have it tweaked into the 10M band once I learn how to use it and go get my HAM>

Ham license is really easy now.  No code... I have a General license.  Rarely EVER use it.. :(  Internet is so much faster  :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 05, 2010, 08:36:51 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0028-2.jpg&hash=396d76c8f5cd2d66d29c0f1d91bdaa54)
Friday night we arrived to find the inside of the cabin at 18 degrees.  It took two hours to get it above freezing and dinner was Ham and Potato soup from a can that was trying to burst and ravioli from another swollen can.  Figured better eat them now!  Defrosted them on the stove :)

Note:  A quick cleaning of the stove and using dried pine was the ticket!  The stove really cranked out the heat all night -- indeed all weekend! 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0021-2.jpg&hash=5598c32dcfeb87194449cb6b4f248344)
We cheated a little in that we used the Kerosene heater in the back portion of the cabin where there was no insulation....good thing too!  It was 65 in there all night long :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0015-3.jpg&hash=251d38fd322017eac7d48db30fdf848e)
We stuffed two rolls of R19 into the walls (which we will have to drill and pull wire in when it thaws so we didn't staple the bats down) and put 3 feet of R19 across the peak from one end to the other.  This worked to get it to 65 and keep it there.  The loft stayed at 50.

On a side note the porch (uninsulated and unheated) got to 50 degrees during the day!  It was 25 outside at the warmest.  When it was 4 outside the porch was 14 :D  With a little insulation I think it might even keep the batteries above freezing.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on December 06, 2010, 08:52:24 AM
We don't have phone or cell service at our camp.  We do have a fairly good access to a Ham 2 meter repeater.  It's about 30 mi. north.  This allows someone in camp to communicate with someone in our home town a 100 mi. away.  In addition to communications for emergencies my wife who has been at camp all week can contact me to make sure I bring up ice and TP on my way up Fri. night.

The first level Tech license is real easy to get and if you can hit a repeater you can cover a lot of distance.

A repeater with a phone patch is really useful.  I don't know if there are any around there but we have a couple around here.
Hehehe,, you just took me back a few years.  I had a RCI-2950 with shoes.....  I loved that radio!

From what I've read the 959 doesn't need the shoes :)  but then maybe with shoes it would really kick it out there!  I imagine the 108" antenna and the 959 peak and tuned will give me some serious 11m range...but I'll have it tweaked into the 10M band once I learn how to use it and go get my HAM>

Ham license is really easy now.  No code... I have a General license.  Rarely EVER use it.. :(  Internet is so much faster  :)

Yup, no code (grumbles.... can you tell I'm an old timer?  ;) ) ... But seriously, I waited until the code requirement went to 5 WPM for all classes before upgrading from Advanced to Extra ... couldn't see putting in the work on the code for the tiny sliver of extra bandwidth.  Glad I did get the Extra tho...

I have a bunch of repeaters plugged into the radio in the truck that I can hit from my property.  Some consistently, others, not so much.  I keep telling Beautiful that I'm going to send her a message from the Ranch one of these days.  Maybe next year I'll get up there for Field Day and have some fun with the step-son.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on December 06, 2010, 08:53:38 AM
Jarhead,

I wish I could make it up to my place these days... but it will take snowshoes or a snowmobile (or quad) to get up there this time of year.

Yours looks great!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 06, 2010, 09:21:21 AM
That's cold!  Once all the insulation is complete it should warm up faster. With the Aspen going and the propane wall heater we can gain 20 degrees an hour in our 15.75x30, no loft cabin.  I remember well how long it took when the ceiling only had a thin layer of insulation.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 06, 2010, 01:02:49 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0003-1.jpg&hash=d9e828aa8544c2d999022733dbf338d3)
This is what we did to help with heat loss :)

I think I might take Don's advise and screw in 1" furring strips and then install the R19 which will give me about 3/4" of venting. Guess that's kind of a 'drop ceiling' then....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0004-2.jpg&hash=66ca9792b2519e1f69b7547fe7220392)
When we leave now we always chop and stack a weekends worth of wood inside the cabin near the stove.  This location is probably pushing it a little (maybe a tad closer then called for) but seems to work nicely and the wood does not get overly hot.

It's nice walking in with a fair amount of dried wood and kindling.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0006-1.jpg&hash=c960c8710fd4190eb1e68f483aca7bea)
I call this shot my 'obligatory, we have to leave but I don't want to' shot :)

We'd love to stay a LOT longer but alas we also have to work in order to pay for the cabin build :) 

So, maybe in a week or two we'll be back to stuff more insulation, take more pictures and burn more wood :)  Oh and to keep warm of course!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 06, 2010, 01:12:38 PM
On a side note the chimney does not get hot at the wall penetration!  It's rather amazing.

I was somewhat worried about this because the manual on installation calls for 2" of clearance and in one spot I have 1" because of the way the chimney passes through the eves at the roof.  That 1" worried me until I discovered that the chimney isn't even hot where it passes through the wall much less 14 feet above there!

So we're good as gold I think :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on December 06, 2010, 02:40:11 PM
It is like seeing an old friend when you return and it is so hard to say goodbye, even if for a few weeks. Nothing productive even has to happen, it's just the feeling of being there!
Looking good,
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 09, 2010, 09:43:24 PM
True enough!  I was day dreaming today about doing interior work!  Sheesh!  hahaha  Guess I'm hooked huh/
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 10, 2010, 10:03:09 AM
The bucks of Eagle Rock :)

So here we go with the first.  I thought he was a Doe until I saw the fork...
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FBuck.jpg&hash=ec95abcf4100bbcde46fe89f705fa7c0)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F209BUck.jpg&hash=d64ff353ae1826b194bfebedd19f933a)
This guy was captured (on camera) last year.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F3point.jpg&hash=44c77580ca79fdff931aca4be0510f3e)
Nice 3 point I think though it might even be a 4 point.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F4point.jpg&hash=3874663b4dfd056665129c2ab614fc19)
A 4 point I believe

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F4point-2.jpg&hash=eb107d4b4d6465f3968ed33a0e8ae398)
Another 4 point

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FWhiteTail.jpg&hash=cc95c78a4472218f9bd33f6297d69003)
This guy appears to be a Whitey.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2F5point.jpg&hash=06b904e6f9cd66805beace035ce286df)
The best for last!  When I saw that rack I went "Holy Cow!"  That has to be one of the nicest racks I've seen.

Notice the times these were shot...not a one was shot during hunting hours!  Figures.
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: diyfrank on December 10, 2010, 10:29:10 AM
looks like one whitetail and the rest are mule.
Makes it hard when they only move a night.
All but one look legal. [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on December 10, 2010, 11:14:23 AM
Yeah, most of the pictures I've got have been during darkness, although there are a good number of a legal hour ones. But then those have been out of season mostly  d*


I'm told that in some places in Europe they can hunt after sunset. Never confirmed that myself.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on December 31, 2010, 06:16:55 AM
Almost a month since being up at the cabin and I'm gettin' the itch something awful.  It's New Years weekend and it has been kind of a tradition here to go camping this weekend....and it will be about -6 at the cabin (which really means about -10 if my experience serves me at all)....

But with lots of firewood, a good stove and a bit more insulation I'm kinda thinking it might be just right :D

So, if luck serves me I'll leave today around noon and make it up there fore dark....I hope so!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 06, 2011, 02:29:21 PM
Had a great New Years at the cabin :)  Got to -10 the first night but we stayed warm :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FMoreInsulation.jpg&hash=d3db8112a43e878af2c59c04164607ef)
We stuffed insulation into the walls where it was missing.  We'll have to go back and pull it out to install the wiring but we were warm :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FPanels.jpg&hash=d740670d938fc932436c2a4ed8d8b1dd)
Carefully cleaned off some of the snow which was on the panels.  One thing we never accomplished in the last two visits was changing the angle on the panels but the batteries were well charged and we barely use them at this point so it's ok.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FNewYears.jpg&hash=3169b29e27340eaaad060b67cd7b2897)
We cleared a path to the wood chopping area and managed to get some wood chopped

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FNewYears2.jpg&hash=232707e453a8601946bbbe1365178f1c)
and burned some slash -- note to self:  don't cover slash piles with tarps if you expect snow!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 06, 2011, 03:18:03 PM
Glad to hear you were warm.


-- note to self:  don't cover slash piles with tarps if you expect snow!

In our experience the piles should be covered to keep them dry in the middle where the fire can be started more easily. We do a couple things that have worked for us. Melting snow in amongst the slash makes it hard to get/keep going at times.
1. We use old pieces of tar paper to cover. Leave in place to burn after sweeping off snow.
2. Cover with old tarps, 6 mil plastic, old table cloths. Sweep and/or simply pull tarps and snow off. Have ropes tied into corners.
3. Use gas and old motor oil mixture to get going if piles were left uncovered. (70-75% old oil) gasoline vapor is heavier than air so it flows out from the place it is poured and will flow downhill. Something to keep in mind when pouring and getting set to light. Can be dangerous; I didn't tell anyone to do it.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Pine Cone on January 06, 2011, 10:13:41 PM
Glad to hear you were warm.


-- note to self:  don't cover slash piles with tarps if you expect snow!

In our experience the piles should be covered to keep them dry in the middle where the fire can be started more easily. We do a couple things that have worked for us. Melting snow in amongst the slash makes it hard to get/keep going at times.
1. We use old pieces of tar paper to cover. Leave in place to burn after sweeping off snow.
2. Cover with old tarps, 6 mil plastic, old table cloths. Sweep and/or simply pull tarps and snow off. Have ropes tied into corners.
3. Use gas and old motor oil mixture to get going if piles were left uncovered. (70-75% old oil) gasoline vapor is heavier than air so it flows out from the place it is poured and will flow downhill. Something to keep in mind when pouring and getting set to light. Can be dangerous; I didn't tell anyone to do it.

While I prefer to use a propane torch to light my burn piles these days, I used a forestry drip-torch with a mix of diesel and gasoline for decades.  Normal ratios are somewhere from 3 to 5 parts diesel per part of gasoline.  4:1 is a good bet.  Gasoline by itself is way too dangerous.  Buy a drip torch from Baileys, Forestry Suppliers or Ben Meadows if you have lots of stuff to burn.  They are the safest way to light fires.

Cover the center of your piles with large pieces of cardboard and then you will have a dry place to light.  You will need to pile stuff on top of the cardboard to keep it from blowing off.  The denser the pile the easier it is to get it to burn.  If you are burning tree limbs, place them so the curve of the limb faces up.

Hard to beat a big fire on a cold day!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 07, 2011, 05:56:24 PM
Thanks guys -- the trouble I had was with ice.  Seems the snow must have melted at some point and then frozen into blocks of ice on the tarp -- and freezing it to the ground.

Once I managed to get the tarp off enough to begin to pull out the branches they were covered in ice.....perhaps they weren't dry when it began to freeze
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 17, 2011, 06:08:44 PM
Planning the next two trips and hope to get some logging and milling done:)  The weather has been warmer this last week (a big chinook blew in from the coast and warmed it up a bunch) so with luck the composting toilet drain thawed!  I can hope anyway, but we're going as long as the Jeep let's us!  Power Steering pump is failing but I think I can get it swapped out before hand.

Got the winch back on the jeep too and rigged up and ready to go :)  Will use it to drag logs onto the landing.  Then I just have to charpen the chain and get with it!

My wife plans a trip with me the end of the month too so it should be a good and active couple of weeks!
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 08:57:21 AM
Got my Cant Hook in this week :)  and since the boys put the winch back on the Jeep we're planning a weekend of logging tomorrow! :)  Can't wait!

Also, the newest news is that I'm buying a Woodmizer LT10 Bandsaw Mill :D  [cool] ;D  I can't wait to get it purchased and headed our way!  We decided that it would be much faster to mill our lumber with that then the Chain Saw Mill (which we'll be using next weekend) and since we have other buildings in mind we decided that we'd get the mill and mill all our own lumber.

Then if my son gets good at it we figure he can use it as a side business -- milling lumber for cabins in remote places for those who want to turn their trees into their cabins :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 20, 2011, 08:59:35 AM
 [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 09:04:26 AM
I mentioned last year (or maybe 2009) that I would try to video the drive up to our cabin and while I can't show all 3 miles (that's a lot of megs of video) I can show this short 500 foot section...enjoy :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2Fth_MVI_0134.jpg&hash=740a215d5d25a250d0ba2d2b46b9bc7d) (http://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/?action=view&current=MVI_0134.mp4)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: John Raabe on January 20, 2011, 09:19:12 AM
Enjoyed that ride. Nice bright day and I can feel the crisp air.

There are places on the way up where I wouldn't have wanted to see a logging truck coming down!  :P
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 09:22:49 AM
Enjoyed that ride. Nice bright day and I can feel the crisp air.

There are places on the way up where I wouldn't have wanted to see a logging truck coming down!  :P

haha ya the 9 foot wide road doesn't provide much confidence when driving around blind corners...then add 6" of solid ice on THAT stretch and you get the idea that wintering at the cabin involves 4 wheel low and V-Groove chains!!!  (Thanks Don for pointing me that direction, without them I was walking in!)...

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: John Raabe on January 20, 2011, 09:30:19 AM
Are these the type you and Don are using?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1009.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf219%2Fcountryplans%2Fchains.jpg&hash=92816df66385179958b8bc1a945dc390) (http://www.tirechain.com/TRUCK-SUV-CHAINS.HTM)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 09:31:57 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2Fth_MVI_0132.jpg&hash=0a42c0a2c1cace4176c9b402f20c9bc3) (http://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/?action=view&current=MVI_0132.mp4)
Thought I'd post this one too...the video quality is a poor but that's because it was taken on a Canon powershot 5 megapixel camera held by my step-son. 

Also, the road is a private drive so no logging trucks :)  3 miles of road to our cabin which extends to others at various forks in the road -- it also goes beyond us for at least a mile or more.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 09:33:20 AM
Are these the type you and Don are using?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1009.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf219%2Fcountryplans%2Fchains.jpg&hash=92816df66385179958b8bc1a945dc390) (http://www.tirechain.com/TRUCK-SUV-CHAINS.HTM)

Yup :)

Depending on the conditions I will put either just two on the front (hasn't had much thawing so I'm less concerned with Ice) or all four corners (lots and lots of ice).  The grades I'm drive sorta warrants it! haha
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 09:34:13 AM
You can get the same chains I have at Les Swab :)  For those in the NW anyway.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 20, 2011, 09:53:27 AM
Just a caution... using chains on the front only definitely helps with steering. However it does nothing to help keep the rear end behind you. Don't ask, but I only use 4 wheels at a time or rear only, never front only anymore.

It's similar to putting the better tires (2 out of a set of 4) the front of a front wheel drive car. There are occasions, like under braking, when the the rear tires with less tread than the front, will break away. It goes against intuition to put the better tires on the rear, but tire company testing has shown that drivers can have more issues with the better tires on the front than the rear. Same logic applies to chains and ice.

The Vbar are excellent chains. redoverfarm has them too I believe.


I have to do a video too. Thought of it many times; never acted.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 10:01:57 AM
Just a caution... using chains on the front only definitely helps with steering. However it does nothing to help keep the rear end behind you. Don't ask, but I only use 4 wheels at a time or rear only, never front only anymore.

It's similar to putting the better tires (2 out of a set of 4) the front of a front wheel drive car. There are occasions, like under braking, when the the rear tires with less tread than the front, will break away. It goes against intuition to put the better tires on the rear, but tire company testing has shown that drivers can have more issues with the better tires on the front than the rear. Same logic applies to chains and ice.

The Vbar are excellent chains. redoverfarm has them too I believe.

Ah ha! *chuckle* this is where my winter driving training and mountain recovery course comes into play :D

Several years ago (6ish) I was required to attend a course for technicians who, in the course of their regular work, might have to drive into the mountains to cellular towers.  The course was designed to teach some basic winter mountain driving techniques as well as safe snowmobiling (something I'd done plenty as a kid)....anyway this is where I learned something new!

When driving UP hill put chains on the front if you only have two.  When driving DOWN hill put chains on the rear if you only have two.

Apparently it is a common mistake that people make in putting chains in the rear when going uphill (something I always did too) but it was pointed out that the most critical place for traction when going uphill, specially when pulling a trailer, is in the front of a 4 wheel drive.  One, it's where all the weight is and two it's where the steering is -- there were other reasons but I've forgotten them.

Anyway, it is true the rear will not follow as well as if it has chains also but it's almost not noticeable, however, going up sheer ice with chains on the rear can be dangerous whereas in the front it's quite safe.

As a side note, I prefer all 4 but if I'm not too worried and in a hurry I go on the uphill side only.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 20, 2011, 10:09:31 AM
http://www.glinx.com/~sbest/4chains.htm
Great write up and test drive about using chains up front vs. in the rear.  His experience matches my own -- the only difference is that I was taught to use chains on the uphill side always (off road only applies).

Again, I prefer all 4 but the uphill side will get you there :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 20, 2011, 10:37:20 AM
Yes, I remember reading that years ago. Here's my take on 4WD and chains.

If there are tracks to follow and the snow is not real deep, no drop offs to fear and the like, then rear only works and the front steers okay in the tracks. If there is a need to turn out of the tracks, that could be troublesome.

Braking with chains on the front is excellent, no doubt there. That's why we have vehicles with discs on the front and drums in the rear. However traveling around curves or going downhill, in a forward direction, can be very exciting when the front (with chains), brakes and grips okay but the rear wheels (no chains) lock and slide causing the rear to come around. That probably won't happen if there are tracks/ruts, but on ice my personal experience was way too exciting to want to repeat. Rear breakaway will not always happen and front only does get you through a lot. I used to do that at times too. But after that one time; not again. If the snow is deep enough to drag the diffs then all 4 wheels with chains id preferred, IMO.

Conversely, when going uphill in a forward direction, chains on the front do nothing to improve motive traction at the rear. The front end becomes light on a steep grade and without rear chains the rear do not get traction and slip.  Even lockers don't help that. On flat or not very steep roads there is probably less of an issue. Maybe I have traveled on too many steep grades and have thus encountered more issues. Even in dry weather that last hill going up to our place can not be climbed in a front drive (front drive only car) without a run at it, as front wheel slippage occurs.

If a person has only one set of chains he should not have a 4x4. Harsh as it may be, that's my opinion.

Wet skid pan tests on street tires are where I got the info on worn street tires on the rear, and new on the front, of front drive cars. No link, it was in print years ago.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 23, 2011, 07:18:34 PM
We got to logging this weekend :)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FJeepinLogs.jpg&hash=22383f3f6b6fcbd5481425ce26179e11)
The road was narrow and the logs down a bank and about 200 feet from the Jeep...it was a challenge!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWinchinlogs2.jpg&hash=be202f3aae723a70febd15cf1a123962)
We didn't have a snatch block so improvised...it worked more or less.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F200feetout.jpg&hash=65fa2647901505f78fd22e6ab3432a97)
Down there somewhere...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fchokinlogs.jpg&hash=b388e4f9611c16f014b67197cc708cd0)
Josh chokin a log

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0128.jpg&hash=9fa1b5d95506c81bc5a1b5935131dce8)
Had to roll them onto a path on the way up.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSkiddinLogs.jpg&hash=f958719d918d233b29611c0bce28b4a0)
But rigged up like this we could drag those logs up out of any hole :)  Though we later put the chains on the rear too since we had plans to go down the hill and up and down another...Going uphill with the chains up front is always a breeze and with 4+ inches of solid ice our neighbors couldn't even get past the fork in the road a mile back...but we just crawled right on up as if it was a nice warm sunny day :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0110-1.jpg&hash=d1cde80d2e513f04e92cccceb5ae5f20)
Josh rolling logs on the landing.

What surprised me the most was that the 8000lbs winch had trouble with the logs at times but the jeep just yanked them right up the bank once they were free of obstacles!  Wow!  Go Jeep!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 23, 2011, 07:29:38 PM
Yes, I remember reading that years ago. Here's my take on 4WD and chains.

If there are tracks to follow and the snow is not real deep, no drop offs to fear and the like, then rear only works and the front steers okay in the tracks. If there is a need to turn out of the tracks, that could be troublesome.

Braking with chains on the front is excellent, no doubt there. That's why we have vehicles with discs on the front and drums in the rear. However traveling around curves or going downhill, in a forward direction, can be very exciting when the front (with chains), brakes and grips okay but the rear wheels (no chains) lock and slide causing the rear to come around. That probably won't happen if there are tracks/ruts, but on ice my personal experience was way too exciting to want to repeat. Rear breakaway will not always happen and front only does get you through a lot. I used to do that at times too. But after that one time; not again. If the snow is deep enough to drag the diffs then all 4 wheels with chains id preferred, IMO.

Conversely, when going uphill in a forward direction, chains on the front do nothing to improve motive traction at the rear. The front end becomes light on a steep grade and without rear chains the rear do not get traction and slip.  Even lockers don't help that. On flat or not very steep roads there is probably less of an issue. Maybe I have traveled on too many steep grades and have thus encountered more issues. Even in dry weather that last hill going up to our place can not be climbed in a front drive (front drive only car) without a run at it, as front wheel slippage occurs.

If a person has only one set of chains he should not have a 4x4. Harsh as it may be, that's my opinion.

Wet skid pan tests on street tires are where I got the info on worn street tires on the rear, and new on the front, of front drive cars. No link, it was in print years ago.



Fast vs slow perhaps?  I was once crossing a parking lot at over 50MPH in the mini behind the little race car.  I had made the mistake of putting Dunlop race tires on the front only (because we didn't have enough wheel lugs for the back) and hadn't considered the implication of sticky vs not sticky in a high speed weight shift...I soon found out!
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FNoBreaks.jpg&hash=ddd21478c78194b48ee1045dfd4f60dc)
As I made to dodge a cone in the center of the Autocross course the rear lifted as per usual only this time it swapped ends with the front!  At 50+ I twitched the wheel and stuck it through the cones right side front and kept going but learned a lesson I'll never forget ;)

However, High Speed driving isn't comparable in anyway to low speed crawling.

Granted, you're a master of the off-roading compared to me I'm sure, however I'll stick with my rule:  Chains on the uphill side when not using on all four but all four is always better then any two.

As a side note, my neighbor that has lived in our hills for the last 30 years came by today...he's driven this icy treacherous roads 5-6 days a week since 1979...and he has chains on the front only when going up the hill.... ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rick91351 on January 24, 2011, 05:15:30 AM
Thumbs up MD and echos my experience especially the part  'Braking with chains on the front is excellent.'  Opps!!  Some times to good.


Braking with chains on the front is excellent, no doubt there. That's why we have vehicles with discs on the front and drums in the rear. However traveling around curves or going downhill, in a forward direction, can be very exciting when the front (with chains), brakes and grips okay but the rear wheels (no chains) lock and slide causing the rear to come around. That probably won't happen if there are tracks/ruts, but on ice my personal experience was way too exciting to want to repeat. Rear breakaway will not always happen and front only does get you through a lot. I used to do that at times too. But after that one time; not again. If the snow is deep enough to drag the diffs then all 4 wheels with chains id preferred, IMO.

If a person has only one set of chains he should not have a 4x4. Harsh as it may be, that's my opinion.


Jarhead wrote As a side note, my neighbor that has lived in our hills for the last 30 years came by today...he's driven this icy treacherous roads 5-6 days a week since 1979...and he has chains on the front only when going up the hill....

I also agree with this as well to a certain point.  It works good as Don says on flat and not very steep roads.  By this a normal maintained mountain road or grade should not affect front traction all that much.  But a good case in point when you are climbing some of those washed out steep roads in the summer time have you noticed as soon as the rear wheels break loose you are done?  The front end can be spinning and jumping rock to rock and so long as the rear end has a bite you keep progressing.  In the wetter / slicker seasons that rule sort of compounds itself and things sure don't have to be as steep or tough doing to halt the wheels of progress.

Then there is the other point here, your neighbor as you say drives this same road and has for 30 years, 5 - 6 days a week.  With that experience he knows what works for him and his vehicle or vehicles.  Same as where my ranch is at.  Those guys drive in and out of that area all the time in the winter.  They know where to chain up and drop their chains when they have to.  They also can do it so fast that they are chained up and going while I am untangling mine.  I do not have and certainly do not expect to have the same skill level much less luck as they do, doing it twenty-four / seven.  Spring, summer and fall it is pretty much a wash, we all travel about the same.  Winter time they shine.             
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 24, 2011, 05:51:13 AM
I can see very steep grades being a problem if the front end is lifting due to excessive grades but I find it takes VERY excessive grades to do this.  Our 'mountain road' has grades way beyond anything you'd ever see on the road (one stretch rises about 50 feet in 300 - over 16%) and at no time does the front end lose traction due to grade.

However, I don't have a desire to turn my cabin thread into a dispute over winter driving, I'll let the experts at Winter Driving Schools to do that as I'd like to get back to building my cabin.

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rick91351 on January 24, 2011, 06:24:15 AM
Looking at your logs!  So what are you going to do with the logs?  Boards or ???   How many do you have to get out and are they all in places like that?  That is sure a lot of work and can be somewhat dangerous but with a little caution.....  It is sure a lot nicer to have someone to work with doing that, and being able to work together rather than doing all the grunt work yourself.  It seems we never have time or the day light in the winter to get much done as we drag our cabin out over winter.  (Fifth-wheel)  And it is a minimum of another hour going and come in the winter time no matter how we go.  It must be nice to have your place where you can go now year around now.  Well some day maybe we will be so lucky!  

Did you find it a lot easier skidding them out in the winter with the frozen ground and snow than summer?  I always worry about fires in the summer time when we do that so winter to me would definitely be the best just from that alone.  In the summer most the time I will in fact go back in the evening and look things over most of the time.  I have never found anything but I figure an oz. of prevention is always worth a lb. of cure.  And it always give me chance to go on a four-wheeler ride.  This summer I really don't see us logging much at all unless we decide to thin some more and get in to some bigger trees.

 
        
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rick91351 on January 24, 2011, 06:45:57 AM
I can see very steep grades being a problem if the front end is lifting due to excessive grades but I find it takes VERY excessive grades to do this.  Our 'mountain road' has grades way beyond anything you'd ever see on the road (one stretch rises about 50 feet in 300 - over 16%) and at no time does the front end lose traction due to grade.

However, I don't have a desire to turn my cabin thread into a dispute over winter driving, I'll let the experts at Winter Driving Schools to do that as I'd like to get back to building my cabin.

Erik

Agreed and offer an apology if you took my post as such.  Sure never intended it to!  I also sent you another post right after that back on topic.  ;D    I also agree that sometimes this forum is worse than some others does sort of side bar out into other areas rather than staying on topic.  (One reason I found it so interesting.)  Sorry will watch that in the future. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 25, 2011, 05:56:10 AM
Looking at your logs!  So what are you going to do with the logs?  Boards or ???   How many do you have to get out and are they all in places like that?  That is sure a lot of work and can be somewhat dangerous but with a little caution.....  It is sure a lot nicer to have someone to work with doing that, and being able to work together rather than doing all the grunt work yourself.  It seems we never have time or the day light in the winter to get much done as we drag our cabin out over winter.  (Fifth-wheel)  And it is a minimum of another hour going and come in the winter time no matter how we go.  It must be nice to have your place where you can go now year around now.  Well some day maybe we will be so lucky!  

Did you find it a lot easier skidding them out in the winter with the frozen ground and snow than summer?  I always worry about fires in the summer time when we do that so winter to me would definitely be the best just from that alone.  In the summer most the time I will in fact go back in the evening and look things over most of the time.  I have never found anything but I figure an oz. of prevention is always worth a lb. of cure.  And it always give me chance to go on a four-wheeler ride.  This summer I really don't see us logging much at all unless we decide to thin some more and get in to some bigger trees.

 
        

The logs will be milled into lumber.  First about 2000 board feet of interior paneling and then siding/batting and finally, structural :)

Skidding them in the snow was actually very easy and with the ground frozen I'd say easier then in the summer -- during the summer I skidded 3 logs down from up top of our hill and while it was also easy (the jeep has plenty of pulling power) I'd say winter is the best time to do it this way.

We have a mixed bag of locations to bring logs in from and will have to winch them from lower portions of the property again - however I suspect a block and tackle/snatch block would make that much easier -- the thing I found the hardest was that dragging the logs with the winch seemed to double or triple their weight!  Once they were behind the jeep though, it was like pulling a sled :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 25, 2011, 06:03:21 AM
I can see very steep grades being a problem if the front end is lifting due to excessive grades but I find it takes VERY excessive grades to do this.  Our 'mountain road' has grades way beyond anything you'd ever see on the road (one stretch rises about 50 feet in 300 - over 16%) and at no time does the front end lose traction due to grade.

However, I don't have a desire to turn my cabin thread into a dispute over winter driving, I'll let the experts at Winter Driving Schools to do that as I'd like to get back to building my cabin.

Erik


Agreed and offer an apology if you took my post as such.  Sure never intended it to!  I also sent you another post right after that back on topic.  ;D    I also agree that sometimes this forum is worse than some others does sort of side bar out into other areas rather than staying on topic.  (One reason I found it so interesting.)  Sorry will watch that in the future. 

Not required :)  Internet forums are often hard to catch mood/intent/emotion and I'm certain that neither you or Don meant anything other then to be helpful :)  And I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Alberta Curt on January 27, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Great setup!!  Looks good.  Are there not any issues with storing your batteries for the solar indoors?  I eas under the impression they had to be outside to prevent hydrogen buildup.

Alberta
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 27, 2011, 07:47:20 AM
Great setup!!  Looks good.  Are there not any issues with storing your batteries for the solar indoors?  I eas under the impression they had to be outside to prevent hydrogen buildup.

Alberta

I asked an EE buddy of mine this question and his response was that as long as the batteries were not being equalized they would not exhaust hydrogen or something like that.  However, I intend to enclose the batteries completely and provide venting from them so that when they vent it's to the outside rather then inside.

The idea for putting them in the porch stemmed from the need to keep them warm in sub zero weather.  Batteries lose their ability to deliver power by something like 50% at freezing...more at 30 below :D  And at our cabin it can get THAT cold easily.  So I built the porch to provide a solar heated storage place for the solar power components and batteries :)  The FREE aluminum windows do this perfectly!  At 32 outside it will be 60+ inside during the day.

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 27, 2011, 09:27:13 AM
http://www.woodmizer.com/us/Products/ManualSawmills/LT10PortableSawmill.aspx

I'm dreaming too much lately :)  Getting my quote today!  I hope to order within the next couple weeks....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on January 27, 2011, 12:24:22 PM
Wow, thats a spiffy saw.  I'll be hiring someone to make the siding for this place.  There are several folks in the area with "home mill" set ups.  This is, after all, logging country.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on January 27, 2011, 02:27:55 PM
Very nice Jarhead!

I miss getting up to my place... so I'm vicariously enjoying the trips to yours  ;)  I won't be able to get up to mine until the snow goes out.  I should measure the grade on some of the road in to my place, but there was one section of that first video that the road had drops off the side similar to my road in.

Good job on the logging.  I misses a deal on a bandsaw mill two years ago that I still kick myself for. $750, and all it would have taken was a drive to Boise to pick up.

My Alaskan will have to to for now.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 30, 2011, 07:24:51 PM
Making Sawdust!  We set off to the cabin bright an early (after I had 2 hours of sleep from work) on Friday and started milling lumber Saturday by 11am :)  We milled 22 1x10's (ok actually 3/4x9's) and thoroughly enjoyed the weekend :)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FJoshMiller2.jpg&hash=f96523fccacee1ddea91a4309b7dbd76)
I made my son do most of the hard work as my back was thrown out at work a week ago but I still managed to pitch in all weekend :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FJoshMiller.jpg&hash=e5d75917b8d8a92183164ec6877f5ce7)
Josh is getting proficient at this game :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FErik_Pine.jpg&hash=2f67795e94fd45e9019157f223665377)
And the boards just kept coming off the logs :)  Takes about 4 minutes per board but a lot of set up time!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FPine.jpg&hash=8709f15a1fc2966f1379d8361559463d)
We laid out a few of the boards we'd milled and took this picture to get an idea what the walls might look like :)  Man are we happy!  WHOOHOO!  But we're not thinking of using the 'Blue Stained' pine for the floor and the unstained pine for the walls....unless of course drying turns it all blue!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0046-2.jpg&hash=79e8dd84187f6a40d2b2d02cd5cb4f05)
I just can't help but be excited!  I LOVE pine!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FPine2.jpg&hash=45b8c34f1ca22cd0b6dafd2e338ed5b7)
The Blue Stain is quite artistic!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FPine3.jpg&hash=f4c7b33e09a92f310d7759d726992bf1)
More close ups of the Blue Stained Pine.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0048-2.jpg&hash=c7ef4bf26872f98eba756eaee5b768f9)
My wife insisted:)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0050-3.jpg&hash=988c55ba3ecf2fb4353c83b75eaf16f9)
And so I insisted :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0038.jpg&hash=3ce8e9e54965b8b615cecb85b0c56f4e)
Darci (my wife) brought rugs up and began making the cabin more 'homey'  we love it when she joins us up there!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 31, 2011, 10:27:50 AM
It's amazing really, but after 18 months of working on our cabin in the woods I'm still planning the next trip and next things to do!  I can't wait to get back and have begun to wonder if maybe there's a calling there?

Anyway, our next trip should involve finishing the electrical installation and doing some drywall work but with luck I'll have some other bodies and we might get some wood chopping done too :)  That's always needed in the winter.

Then, depending on bodies etc, we may also try to mill a log or two.  I'd like to get at least twice what I have done now by mid month (Feb) if possible but I can see it's going to be later most likely.

It's also obvious that I need to get the new mill ordered!  Once all the interior and exterior finish wood is milled then we will try to mill a ton of structural lumber to dry for future projects.

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 31, 2011, 04:43:21 PM
Do you get a lot of sawdust?


Good to see you're up there. I think we're going up this coming weekend. By the looks of the forcast we'll have more snow.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 31, 2011, 04:51:32 PM
Do you get a lot of sawdust?


Good to see you're up there. I think we're going up this coming weekend. By the looks of the forcast we'll have more snow.

Tons of it!  9 boards out of one log gives us 8'x1/4"x 9 1/2" of sawdust per pass!  So about 11 times that...or shovel loads!  My wife used it to spread on the ice to make walking safer and the covering on the ground (you can see it in the picture) after taking much away for traction on the ice was still about 3-4" deep in places.  I'm looking for ways to use the sawdust :)

We are ordering a bandsaw soon so I figure less waste (less sawdust) but still figure we'll have more then we know what to do with.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: nathan.principe on January 31, 2011, 05:49:20 PM
A fun little project for the saw dust could be making fire starters.  Cut the bottoms off a paper egg carton to get 12 "paper cups" fill with the saw dust and pour melted wax over the exposed top to seal it, this will burn a pretty big flame for about 10mins, great for starting camp fires
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 31, 2011, 05:57:12 PM
Scatter it about and it will disappear.


Pine needles (dry) make great fire starter. That all we use. I have a 30 gallon plastic drum that I refill every year when they're good and dry; June before the rains is a good time to collect here.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on January 31, 2011, 06:02:38 PM
Pine knots are my choice if I can find them.  Years ago they used to soak corn cobs in Kerosene and then allow them to dry for fire starters.  But I usually don't need but a couple all year.  My fire has only gone out once since Mid October.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on January 31, 2011, 07:12:19 PM
My fire has only gone out once since Mid October.

That's when you know it is winter!   ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: nathan.principe on January 31, 2011, 07:38:26 PM
Pine needles is a good idea! I will have to collect some from my cabin for fires out there.  Here in Dallas pine trees are pretty scarce since our soil is not conducive for them.  When I have fires at my house here in the city, indoors, I use the starters I mentioned above with either saw dust or dryer lint in them.  I make 2 dozen at a time and theyll last me quite some time
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: nathan.principe on January 31, 2011, 07:44:01 PM
  My fire has only gone out once since Mid October.

it was about 65 today here in Dallas ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on January 31, 2011, 07:44:58 PM
We currently use drier lint for starting fires -- amazing stuff!  Just save it and use a handful even in the dampest conditions!  Don't need matches either, just a flint and steel :)

I've read on the forestry forum I go to (or somewhere else perhaps) that using pine sawdust and wax is an option the same way you just described it (hmmmm)....have to try that.

Also read (off topic here) that drier lint and wax in a tuna can makes a good sterno type stove :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2011, 05:14:12 AM
Ordered the WoodMizer LT10!  :D  I CAN NOT WAIT!  [cool] c* ;D :)

After milling 100 board feet of pine for the cabin last weekend I've got the bug big big time!  I want to mill 50 board feet, or  1000 board feet in a weekend!!!

Then I want to finish this cabin and mill the lumber for the next one -- all of it!

I'm totally stoked :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: ajbremer on February 02, 2011, 08:01:13 AM
I liked your pics where you show your floor/deck all done and your doing the 'Countryplans jig' on it. I posted a question yesterday here asking users to guess how much, on the average, it would cost to get to that point using piers or blocks, doing the beams, floor joists, and then the 4x8 sheets over the whole thing. I was wondering about how much you think it cost you to get to that point?

Here's where I asked the question: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10211.0
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: RIjake on February 02, 2011, 04:16:54 PM
Ordered the WoodMizer LT10!  :D  I CAN NOT WAIT!  [cool] c* ;D :)

After milling 100 board feet of pine for the cabin last weekend I've got the bug big big time!  I want to mill 50 board feet, or  1000 board feet in a weekend!!!

Then I want to finish this cabin and mill the lumber for the next one -- all of it!

I'm totally stoked :)

I'm envious!  What I could do with one of those! [chainsaw]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Barry Broome on February 02, 2011, 04:59:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsouThHml1U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsouThHml1U)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2011, 05:02:17 PM
I liked your pics where you show your floor/deck all done and your doing the 'Countryplans jig' on it. I posted a question yesterday here asking users to guess how much, on the average, it would cost to get to that point using piers or blocks, doing the beams, floor joists, and then the 4x8 sheets over the whole thing. I was wondering about how much you think it cost you to get to that point?

Here's where I asked the question: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10211.0

Floor framing was right about $591 buying locally (cheaper then Home Depot actually).  I tracked all costs as well as I could :)

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2011, 05:04:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsouThHml1U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsouThHml1U)



That video helped me decide :)  $3500 delivered with some extras :)  I can't wait to get milling at a faster rate then with a chain saw!  Did you check out the milling pictures on an earlier page (32 I think)?  It's really awesome and the CSM will do the job nicely but I wanted to move faster ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2011, 05:06:05 PM
I liked your pics where you show your floor/deck all done and your doing the 'Countryplans jig' on it. I posted a question yesterday here asking users to guess how much, on the average, it would cost to get to that point using piers or blocks, doing the beams, floor joists, and then the 4x8 sheets over the whole thing. I was wondering about how much you think it cost you to get to that point?

Here's where I asked the question: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10211.0

Yup you GOTTA do the Country Plans Jig at that point :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Barry Broome on February 02, 2011, 06:30:53 PM
I saw the pics of the chainsaw mill. I've been eye-balling the 20" Husqvarna at Lowe's, I really like it. My family has a portable sawmill (gas driven) and my Father in law cut nearly all the wood used in his 20X30 cabin. If done right, the amount of money you save is well worth it... especially if you have more spare time than you do cash. A portable sawmill is on my wish list but I'm in no hurry. I can't justify purchasing one at this point.

Good luck with the new mill!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 02, 2011, 08:18:36 PM
I saw the pics of the chainsaw mill. I've been eye-balling the 20" Husqvarna at Lowe's, I really like it. My family has a portable sawmill (gas driven) and my Father in law cut nearly all the wood used in his 20X30 cabin. If done right, the amount of money you save is well worth it... especially if you have more spare time than you do cash. A portable sawmill is on my wish list but I'm in no hurry. I can't justify purchasing one at this point.

Good luck with the new mill!

Cool :)

I'm VERY happy with the Husky 455 Rancher (20") -- quite impressed and I think for the money it's worth every dime!  I've done a LOT of cutting with it and it's the best saw I've used in years and years....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 08, 2011, 05:33:30 AM
The Mill has ARRIVED!  Muhahahahaha  NOW I'm going to get serious! :D

But first I have to get it to the cabin which will involve 4 tire chains, 4 wheel drive, a hope and a prayer!  It's 900lbs and will be trailered in...something I haven't tried on the thick ice to the cabin!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on February 08, 2011, 11:49:31 AM
"I'm looking for ways to use the sawdust"  It will insulate blocks of ice in an ice house and keep them from melting or sticking together and burn hot enough in a 55 gal barrel to fire functional (non-waterproof) ceramics such as raku or tiles. 

Pine cones (from certain trees) are awesome fire starters as well.

I want to see pictures of this mill production!...just a small request (OK demand).  :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 08, 2011, 01:41:27 PM
"I'm looking for ways to use the sawdust"  It will insulate blocks of ice in an ice house and keep them from melting or sticking together and burn hot enough in a 55 gal barrel to fire functional (non-waterproof) ceramics such as raku or tiles. 

Pine cones (from certain trees) are awesome fire starters as well.

I want to see pictures of this mill production!...just a small request (OK demand).  :)

Oh you WILL get pics :)  I might even take pics of it on the crate :P
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on February 11, 2011, 09:03:00 AM
Yeah, a mill is on my wish list, too ... sadly, right now I have the spare time, but not the spare cash! (wish me luck tho - or if you're a prayin' type of person - say a prayer - I have one I'm waiting to hear on, one I'm waiting for when the 2nd interview is scheduled, and one I'm going to right now - so hopefully soon).... but maybe this spring you can bring it to my place and we can mill up a few things ... If I haven't gone a bought one myself by then.

Your place looks great! I am green with envy that you can drive in during the winter ... maybe someday the road will be passable up to mine  :(

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: astidham on February 11, 2011, 11:37:13 AM
Cant wait to see the pics of your mill!
I have been thinking about buying a portable wood-mizer LT28
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rniles on February 11, 2011, 02:29:30 PM
I just wanted to say "thank you" to OlJarhead, JavaMan, Yonderosa, DIYFrank, SkagitDrifter and everyone else who has posted information and posted their progress and headaches. You all are an inspiration ...and have inspired me to get some land and start working toward this dream that I've been fearful of jumping into!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Don_P on February 11, 2011, 03:40:06 PM
More uses for sawdust;
you already found out about traction on ice, I had to do that last week to get the trailer out.
We use it in between permanent beds in the garden, also a thick layer around the blueberries. have it around the dogwoods where the daffodils are (which is on of the few blooming things deer leave alone). We've used it to level walking paths through the woods, pin a fallen tree on the low side or the trail and fill the path with sawdust. Don't use it in permanent gravel roads it just gooks them up. Around building sites I'll use it sometimes to keep the mud down but usually it gets spoken for without leaving the farm. Planer shavings end up in the chicken coop. I have swapped fresh shavings for "used" shavings after the barn is cleaned out... the fresh smell better but the used is great fertilizer  ;D.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 12, 2011, 07:00:09 AM
Thanks all -- I'll get a couple pics today of the mill being transported up to the cabin but sadly none of it doing anything because we don't have time this weekend :(  Next weekend, however!!!!

So many col things about this mill!  1. the book explains all kinds of things about milling and drying lumber which is really nice since I'm a total noob to making lumber!  2.  They will give you 50 free double firs or 25 free red oaks just becuase you bought the mill! :) and finally they're customer service has been fantastic!

I can't wait to get started but must be patient as there are only so many weekends I can steal away.

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 12, 2011, 09:31:02 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F2011-02-12_14-54-07_401.jpg&hash=8dbec7ca2ae5c2ea2c9c500911383cc6)
The mill arrives!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F2011-02-12_14-55-02_554.jpg&hash=a7bb0a8dae10451c0374a2d317b5fd49)
Chained up all 4 to make it up the ice covered drive with the trailer and 900 lbs of mill plus some pallets!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F2011-02-12_14-54-54_162.jpg&hash=41cae710c1cb47745e3788c9c2e6746d)
Was 40 degrees when we made it up to the cabin but we had 8-10 inches of snow everywhere we hadn't previously driven or walked.

Only issue right now is that the composter for the toilet is in desperate need of a bigger roof and some better drainage.  It's not flooded (yet) but a few more inches of water and I'll have problems!  I didn't get pictures but this was something I knew could happen and just never got around to providing better protection so next weekend we'll have to address it before the snow starts to really melt.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 12, 2011, 09:35:23 PM
Notice the rear tire and how deep into the wheel well it is!  With 3+ inches of lift and an extra real leaf for towing it still isn't enough to give much clearance with the 31" tires and a loaded trailer but surprisingly enough the chains don't hit too much and then only the loose chains on the end (which you need a little long or you wouldn't get them on).

One thing I've learned is that the Old Man Emu suspension, even the heavy one, isn't the best if you are going to tow with much tongue weight.  I'm wondering if the 4.5" Rubicon or Skyjacker suspensions might actually be better when towing (Don?).
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 12, 2011, 10:06:39 PM
National Spring. You weigh the Jeep, both ends and also weigh the tongue weight of the trailer. Calculate or weigh the usual load to be carried. Give them a call and they make springs to suit.  I have Rubicon front coils (4.5) and National rear leafs. You don't need an add-a-leaf when National makes the springs. They ride nice. If the springs are made to carry a heavy load the Jeep will ride high when not loaded.


http://www.nationalsprings.com/ (http://www.nationalsprings.com/)

Next best would be the Rubicon leafs, IMO, but I hear they are temporarily (?) closed for reorganization.  I don't know anything about other brands other than some are way too stiff for me. I'd want to ask owners with other springs or ride in them.

Anything with more than 3.5 needs a slip yoke eliminator and a CV driveshaft. Tom Woods makes the best shafts  http://www.4xshaft.com/ (http://www.4xshaft.com/)   That will also permit the t-case to be moved back up to the stock position. That also requires rear axle shims to tilt the pinion up. A never ending list.  Only use steel shims; aluminum shims will break. Not might break, will break. Sort like water always wins.  ;D

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 13, 2011, 08:18:38 AM
Thanks Don,

I plan to put in the slip yoke eliminator when I get the T-Case rebuilt anyway, so that ought to set me on the right path to a little more lift if I want it -- or at least eliminate any issues with a slightly higher lift (say 3.5") with load capable rear springs.

Speaking of which, do you still have the rear anti-sway bar on?  I've read not to remove it when towing but often wonder how much lift you can get away without some kind of drop link like the fronts (jks quicker disco's on mine).

and back to the cabin..... I am pretty stoked to have the mill up at the property and now just need to get it assembled and milling lumber...we have MUCH planned!

Plan to start with 1/2" paneling (knotty pine), and 3/4" flooring (blue stained pine), then some structural stuff and exterior stuff (pine might not be the best but I have a ton which needs to be cut into something and I've read it's good for structural anyway).

Once we've milled a ton of lumber then we'll get back to working on the cabin -- this will give us time to finish wiring it out and finish back framing while the lumber is drying.

As spring approaches I also have to consider some other things on the list of 'to do' -- like planting a dozen fruit trees and two dozen Red Oaks :D  And then putting in a small well to provide them with more water since we don't get enough rain to keep them happy :D and then of course, fencing them in so the deer don't eat them before they are big enough to survive the deer!

So much to do and so little time!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 13, 2011, 09:53:01 AM

Speaking of which, do you still have the rear anti-sway bar on?  I've read not to remove it when towing but often wonder how much lift you can get away without some kind of drop link like the fronts (jks quicker disco's on mine).


I have left the rear anti sway bar in place, because of trailer towing concerns. The Jeep seems to work okay with my 4.5" springs. A friend's XJ with same springs but no rear bar seems to act about the same ??? Another friend with an XJ has revolver rear shackles. With a setup like that the bar has to go.

I do have friends who don't own XJ's too.   ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on February 15, 2011, 04:59:37 PM
Will you be hiring out your sawmill services to the locals?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: jharleyhammond on February 15, 2011, 05:31:52 PM
Hey OJH - how deep are those trenches? I have land near Tonasket & want to do the same thing, but I'm on bed rock at the top of a 2800' hill.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 15, 2011, 09:49:13 PM
Will you be hiring out your sawmill services to the locals?

Yes!  Actually this is something I've been talking to the boys about and suggested that it might be a way to recoup some of the expense of buying the mill.

Need some lumber milled?

Of course, we have a few thousand board feet to mill first but then!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 15, 2011, 09:50:28 PM
Hey OJH - how deep are those trenches? I have land near Tonasket & want to do the same thing, but I'm on bed rock at the top of a 2800' hill.

Which ones?  The ones dug for the post & pier foundation?  If so, my next question is:  will you be permitting?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on February 16, 2011, 04:06:53 AM
I do have some milling I need done  ;D 

That Ponderosa Pine tree that was killed by lightning last year and some Larch.  I've been looking for a sawyer on the Eastside, the guy I have been using is on Whidbey Island - he's excellent but the distance makes it impractical.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fsawmill.jpg&hash=ab9d5e398ee2eee0a4b585c0bc790df8)

It would be better for me to hire someone on the eastside.  Once you're established let me know what you need to charge out at.  I'm also open to trading if'n you're in need of cabinets.

I made these out of local Douglas Fir.  Building with materials native to and harvested on site feels cosmically correct to me.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Frawer.jpg&hash=f4bde3be7d72d50d8abb1d9cc2226347)
Quarter sawn Doug Fir Drawer.  Mills beautifully.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fwall.jpg&hash=c15082caee8970277b89da8c94b905e8)
Here's one section of wall cabinets I built for our cabin.  Tried to incorporate the "defects" for rustic character

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fwallc.jpg&hash=1df5e5881b592e87e08d694c6c2e1928)




Will you be hiring out your sawmill services to the locals?

Yes!  Actually this is something I've been talking to the boys about and suggested that it might be a way to recoup some of the expense of buying the mill.

Need some lumber milled?

Of course, we have a few thousand board feet to mill first but then!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on February 16, 2011, 05:26:27 AM
There's an LT10 for sale in my neck of the woods, supposedly NIB for $3300.  Wish I had that laying around, but this last bout of unemployment has gone on too long and I'll have to take a pass on it ... Currently I'm working a 6 week gig (just started it yesterday), but a lot of that is budgeted elsewhere.

Your mill looks great Jarhead ... Once you get your lumber all milled, if I haven't bought one by then, maybe I can talk you into a weekend of milling a few trees for me.   :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 16, 2011, 10:07:55 AM
I do have some milling I need done  ;D 

That Ponderosa Pine tree that was killed by lightning last year and some Larch.  I've been looking for a sawyer on the Eastside, the guy I have been using is on Whidbey Island - he's excellent but the distance makes it impractical.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fsawmill.jpg&hash=ab9d5e398ee2eee0a4b585c0bc790df8)

It would be better for me to hire someone on the eastside.  Once you're established let me know what you need to charge out at.  I'm also open to trading if'n you're in need of cabinets.

I made these out of local Douglas Fir.  Building with materials native to and harvested on site feels cosmically correct to me.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Frawer.jpg&hash=f4bde3be7d72d50d8abb1d9cc2226347)
Quarter sawn Doug Fir Drawer.  Mills beautifully.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fwall.jpg&hash=c15082caee8970277b89da8c94b905e8)
Here's one section of wall cabinets I built for our cabin.  Tried to incorporate the "defects" for rustic character

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fwallc.jpg&hash=1df5e5881b592e87e08d694c6c2e1928)




Will you be hiring out your sawmill services to the locals?

Yes!  Actually this is something I've been talking to the boys about and suggested that it might be a way to recoup some of the expense of buying the mill.

Need some lumber milled?

Of course, we have a few thousand board feet to mill first but then!

I would trade in a heartbeat!  Even just help with cabinets might be enough! ;)  Seriously, I'll pull my mill over there as soon as you want!! :D :D :D  And I LOVE the idea of milling the lumber for the cabinets right on the property...let's talk!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 16, 2011, 10:11:13 AM
There's an LT10 for sale in my neck of the woods, supposedly NIB for $3300.  Wish I had that laying around, but this last bout of unemployment has gone on too long and I'll have to take a pass on it ... Currently I'm working a 6 week gig (just started it yesterday), but a lot of that is budgeted elsewhere.

Your mill looks great Jarhead ... Once you get your lumber all milled, if I haven't bought one by then, maybe I can talk you into a weekend of milling a few trees for me.   :)

The boys need experience :)  So we'd be happy to drag it over there.  One thing I'll need to do is figure out how to trailer-ise it.  I have an idea involving the use of a boat trailer modified to roll the mill up onto it and down off of it.  It is 'portable' in the sense that it comes apart but the head alone weighs a good 200+ lbs.  We almost couldn't lift it off the trailer deck to carry it into the shed!!

I'd like to have it set up so I can trailer it to a location, roll/winch it off the trailer and then leave it until the milling is done and finally winch/roll it back up onto the trailer to leave -- like a boat.  Just need to take a look at boat trailers and see if I can get an old used one that my neighbor can fab into a mill trailer :)  Then I'd also have a place to store fuel, water, tools and blades etc.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on February 16, 2011, 10:30:47 AM
You're an animal 'Ol.
You never rest, do ya- always thinking and doing- I love that.
The mill is exciting stuff.  Looking forward to seeing what comes out of it.
With Yonderosa's craftmanship/help I see some nice cabinets in your future.
Good Luck with the new toy and remember saftey at all costs.
All the best!
 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 16, 2011, 10:56:56 AM
You're an animal 'Ol.
You never rest, do ya- always thinking and doing- I love that.
The mill is exciting stuff.  Looking forward to seeing what comes out of it.
With Yonderosa's craftmanship/help I see some nice cabinets in your future.
Good Luck with the new toy and remember saftey at all costs.
All the best!
 

Thanks man :)  I'm told that I wear people out as fast as I wear out a pair of shoes!  I'm never one to be able to stop if there are things I can do and when I can't do them I can't stop thinking about them...I'm one of those who can't shut down so I just look for more to do.

Safety first!  That's something I try to teach my kids always.  Being in a hurry won't get you no where, but where it gets you is usually quickly into the hospital.  So safety first.

Can't wait to use the mill and if Yonderosa is willing to help with our cabinets I'll be over at his place milling lumber as fast I can get the jeep to pull the mill there!  Are you kidding me?? haha  I'm so stoked I'm already trying to think of an easier way to get the mill loaded up because I'll be milling lumber like a madman so our interior paneling can start to dry...and of course I'll need some wood for the cabinets too...and then it's off over Yonderosa's way :D

Note to Yonderosa:  You do know I'm an animal right?  I'm told I'm like a bulldog and won't let go of something once I get my teeth into it!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: SkagitDrifter on February 16, 2011, 11:03:22 AM

Note to Yonderosa:  You do know I'm an animal right?  I'm told I'm like a bulldog and won't let go of something once I get my teeth into it!
[/quote]


Must be that good old Marine training.  My boy is getting a good dose of it down at 29 Palms Ca.  He'll be there for the next year or so.  OOH RAH!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 16, 2011, 11:39:29 AM

Note to Yonderosa:  You do know I'm an animal right?  I'm told I'm like a bulldog and won't let go of something once I get my teeth into it!


Must be that good old Marine training.  My boy is getting a good dose of it down at 29 Palms Ca.  He'll be there for the next year or so.  OOH RAH!
[/quote]

haha Yup, the Marines sorta instill work ethic into you whether you like it or not ;) but I wouldn't have it any other way! 

Tell him "Semper Fi!" for me!  and "Keep your head down and your powder dry"! and "Chesty Puller was a fighting Marine and a fighting Marine was he!!!  He called for his pipe, he called for his rifle and he called for his Privates Three!!  Beer, Beer, Beer said the Privates, and marry men are we, the Army is fair but it can't compare to Marine Corps Infantry!!!"  Ooorah!

And congrats to you for having a Marine son!  I'm so proud of our boys and girls in uniform and my daughter is a Navy Corpsman taking care of Marines...so we're in good hands eh??

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on February 16, 2011, 02:20:12 PM
We'll work out some kind of trade for services.

I ain't even got the trees down yet and I'm not sure how dry they need to be before milling.  No rush here.

You on the other hand look almost ready to move in so saw em up and git em dryin'  While that is happening we can figure out what you need and go from there.

Depending on how accurate your saw is it's a good idea to cut them 1" and once dry I'll plane them down to 3/4.  A little bit of blade scoring looks good if'n you're into the rustic look.  Something to think about. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Frainbowoutpost.jpg&hash=20c887e33b9d158e2a8c046dd438fb87)
That orange tree is the one that got hit by lightning. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 16, 2011, 04:33:03 PM
Drop them and, mill them as soon as you can get them onto the saw platform!!!  :D  No waiting.

With the CSM I mill a lot over like that but I've learned (I've done a ton of reading as usual) that milling with the Woodmizer is different.  The blade cuts very smooth and Woodmizer claims (as well as tons of users) that at most you only need one light pass in the plane to get them ready -- if that!

The kerf is very thin also allowing for more wood out of each log.

I've got a ton of learning to do but noticed that Woodmizer recommends milling 5/8" boards for 1/2" paneling!  Now THAT is what I'm talking about :D  Less waste and more boards out of each log.

Luckily our kitchen is small and we don't need much in counter space (which will house the sink) but I'd like to have some overhead / wall mounted cupboards too.  It would be nice to mill some old knotty blue stained pine and make cupboards out of it :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Pine Cone on February 16, 2011, 09:03:48 PM
The guy who milled my logs up used a Woodmizer and we cut most boards 1" thick.  Ideally you would mill them up into boards ASAP to minimize damage from ambrosia beetles, flatheaded borers and roundheaded borers.  The borers get it quick once the weather is warm.  Peeling the bark off quickly will also help reduce insect problems.

Here is a pix of part of the milling process.  Getting logs to the mill takes some work.  You can see my son using a Peavy to roll the log uphill towards the mill.  Since I was paying the guy to run the mill I let him do that while we kept him will all the logs he needed to mill.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi753.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx172%2FPine_Cone%2FLogsWaitingToBeMilled.jpg&hash=a6051501129fb52101a520287e92e88d)

On the last day we realized that it was easier to move the logs if we built a log/board road from scraps.  It probably took half the effort once we built our own skid road.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi753.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx172%2FPine_Cone%2FLogRoad.jpg&hash=cbd4b6331166591e9417c89b0bedf511)

We found that we needed a couple of Peavys to move the bigger logs (33' long, 10 to 20" in diameter).  You can get peavys and almost anything else you need from logging supply places like Madsens in Chehalis or over the internet from Baileys in Latonville, CA.

I normally run rough-cut boards through the planer twice on each side to make finished lumber.  My wood was western white pine, and almost all of my boards end up at 7/8" thick after drying for 4+ years before running them though the planer.  If they are too dirty I brush them off with a wire brush before planing them.  I think you could cut them to about 7/8" thick to start and still end up with most boards at 3/4" after planing.  With funky grained boards I sanded them on the finish side for my interior siding ceiling boards.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 17, 2011, 06:05:51 AM
Wow that's a LOT of wood!!!  I don't know if I have that much I plan to mill up...maybe 8-10 trees at the uppermost at this time...but perhaps that is roughly the same?? 

Dried 4+ years huh?  Long time!  But you're over on the wet coast too :)  Nice operation though!  He must have had one of the big WoodMizers?  LT40 maybe?  I've read those guys charge around 30-40 cents a board foot?

IN our case we've got the little guy (LT10) and no extension so at this time only can mill 8-10 foot logs but I plan to get at least two extensions for making 24' beams for foundations.  Got our cant hook (Peavy makes cant hooks and peavy hooks -- which most don't realize are different.  The peavy has a spike on the end while the cant has a hook on the end.  The Peavy was originally designed for water work I beleive...interesting though huh?).

Can't wait to get started though!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on February 18, 2011, 06:01:29 AM
Very cool guys!  Pine Cone, what is the best way to strip the bark? 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 18, 2011, 06:38:19 AM
Very cool guys!  Pine Cone, what is the best way to strip the bark?  

Don't want to step on PC's toes but I use a draw knife.  Depends on how loose the bark is ( time of year ) I have even used a mattock and/or scrapper for larger bark varieties.  The bark will strip a little easier working from the butt end to the top rather than vice versa.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on February 18, 2011, 09:23:50 AM
I stripped a lot of bark off of our logs - used a shingle remover (shaped like a peeling spud) & also a rotohammer w/a clay spade bit...  lots of work  :P  A lot of the bark was not ready to come off.  Glenn said it was good for me, worked off my oneriness  ::)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: glenn kangiser on February 18, 2011, 09:31:25 AM
If only the effect would last... [waiting]

Nice logs PC.  Lots of good lumber there.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 18, 2011, 11:55:20 AM
I mill them with the bark on.  The flitches will either get tossed or used for something later and once dry the bark falls off.  The Woodmizer can mill them with the bark on and the top woodmizers have debarkers to help keep the blade clean.

Anyway, I suppose I could ask the pros and see what they say but I know I've seen others mill with the bark on.

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 18, 2011, 01:10:03 PM
I mill them with the bark on.  The flitches will either get tossed or used for something later and once dry the bark falls off.  The Woodmizer can mill them with the bark on and the top woodmizers have debarkers to help keep the blade clean.

Anyway, I suppose I could ask the pros and see what they say but I know I've seen others mill with the bark on.

Erik

The bark need to come off at some point either before or after sawed.  That is the first place insects will migrate to.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: jharleyhammond on February 19, 2011, 09:22:55 AM
Hey OJH - how deep are those trenches? I have land near Tonasket & want to do the same thing, but I'm on bed rock at the top of a 2800' hill.

Which ones?  The ones dug for the post & pier foundation?  If so, my next question is:  will you be permitting?

Yep the ones for the post & pier foundation. I think negative on the permit. We're way off grid and our current structure - "seasonal cabin" - is on skids & seems fine.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on February 19, 2011, 02:23:56 PM
If you're using the logs for beams & columns w/out milling, you'll have to take the bark off 1st - that's why I had so many to de-bark...   d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 21, 2011, 04:50:22 PM
Hey OJH - how deep are those trenches? I have land near Tonasket & want to do the same thing, but I'm on bed rock at the top of a 2800' hill.

Which ones?  The ones dug for the post & pier foundation?  If so, my next question is:  will you be permitting?

Yep the ones for the post & pier foundation. I think negative on the permit. We're way off grid and our current structure - "seasonal cabin" - is on skids & seems fine.

*chuckle* in that case we went down about 16" in most cases though we're on a slight slope and some of the piers are up a little higher -- maybe only 12" down.

After 18 months and two winters (still in this one) no issue at all.  The frost really only gets down about 6" out here despite the cold and altitude so perhaps the 24" they claim in the area is for extreme cold (below -30) or pipes...but we've had no issue at all with the foundation.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 21, 2011, 05:06:43 PM
Josh and I arrived Friday night around 10PM and began warming up the cabin.  It got up to 45 by the time we hit the sack...it was ZERO outside!

The next morning I warmed the cabin up to 60 degrees (it never got above 45 during the night but was up around 55 when I finally got up (7am)...then we started our day putting the mill together.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0119.jpg&hash=274262d8cb5bdaf87c77332f14cff3f1)
First we had to assemble the bed and get it straight.  It doesn't have to be level as long as the bed rails are even from one end to another.  However, next trip we will level it anyway just becuase I want it level :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0124.jpg&hash=9ebf6293bbb5414622095cb8d772ee64)
Two of our neighbors stopped by (different times) and helped out.  Gordon (in this picture) rolled his truck on his way down the drive.  He wasn't using chains (this was a few days ago) becuase he wasn't having trouble making it up and down but hadn't counted on it raining and then freezing...he hit the last grade and it just went away.  He's ok though and still driving the truck which had minor damage:  note to self:  always use chains!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0129.jpg&hash=b8a5784c1ac221b57a51b7fcc2b37ed7)
Took us most of the day so we didn't mill any lumber on Saturday but Sunday was a full day!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0143.jpg&hash=9678a750602685ee43b2fe8c0308becd)
Got started around 9:30am and stopped for lunch at one.  Then picked it back up at 1:45 and milled until 3:30.  The days are still short and we didn't want to be stacking and stickering in the dark and had wood to chop and clean up to do so we called it a day but not until we'd milled a fair bit!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0145.jpg&hash=be2d979c5b6b2dac4d24e9b31bac6e32)
Very exciting really.  We were cooking right along!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0159.jpg&hash=9a2db5111a0b3b8cfabb2ae8764bdded)
Lots to learn still but we were able to mill quite a bit despite the short time we spent on the mill.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0168.jpg&hash=950555adddce8105fe2d2fe0db98961f)
Even milled the flitches into boards!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 21, 2011, 05:12:10 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0173.jpg&hash=1e07e76eb39fb9620a052fd8b2d84192)
40 boards milled 5/8"x9.5"x8'3" for paneling and a bunch of 1x stock and left overs which can all be planed or milled for various uses.

We found that clamping the logs must be done perfectly to keep them still but not so tight they lift on one side.  Otherwise, you can cut to about 1" from the deck depending on where the log clamps are set etc.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0183-1.jpg&hash=9fc23e3e4fb41c55b37b794c8ff98730)
We can't wait to get back and get a couple days in!  We need about 170 more boards for paneling and then all sorts of dimensional stuff....all in all -- AWESOME!

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rniles on February 21, 2011, 05:16:32 PM
Nice machine Erik! Those look like some nice boards. How long do you have to let them season ...to get the moisture level down?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 21, 2011, 06:41:43 PM
Nice machine Erik! Those look like some nice boards. How long do you have to let them season ...to get the moisture level down?


Rule of thumb is 6 to 8 weeks but actually pine 'can' air dry in 15 days if the weather is right, the set up is right and all the stars are aligned ;)

I plan to let them go 4-6 weeks in the outdoors and then 2 weeks indoors to finish them all.  Being cold out I might need to let them go a little longer but we'll see.  I plan to plane and mill them into T&G after that but want to make sure they are dry enough to except the poly coat and be nailed up without any additional shrinkage (at least not enough to matter).

I've actually seen stuff done green by some.  They just mill them and slap them up and let them dry on the wall, but to do that you have to either overlap them like siding, or make shiplap that overlaps an inch or more -- that way when they dry and shrink you won't have gaps.

In my case I'm not in that big of a hurry :)  I just want to have the interior finished by late spring :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on February 21, 2011, 07:02:15 PM
Do you have a moisture meter?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Pine Cone on February 21, 2011, 08:09:48 PM
Very cool guys!  Pine Cone, what is the best way to strip the bark? 

Sorry for the late reply, but I've been out of town listening and playing Old Time Music.

My wife and I used bark spuds/shingle removers (a 3-4" flat blade on an 8-foot long handle) to clean the bark off the longer logs (34' long), and then I used a draw knife to do the final cleanup on cabin logs (8-feet long).  I ended up with both by the end of the project

A Peavy has a spike on the end that works well on thick-barked logs.  The spike is pointing in the same direction as the long handle and is meant to stick into the bark rather than the wood.  A cant hook is made for working with cants, squared-up logs, with the point perpendicular to the handle so it does less damage to the finished boards. 

There are two reasons to remove the bark before milling the wood.  The first is that if you skid the logs on dirt (instead of snow), the bark ends up full of dirt and rocks that damage the bandsaw blade.  The second is that if you leave the bark on between March and October it will encourage insects (bark beetles and wood borers) to lay eggs in your logs.  Wood borers live a long time.  Three years after cutting my cabin logs I discovered round-headed borer pupae in some of my logs.  For boards this is less of a problem, but for posts and logs it may mean that you have insects exiting your logs years after you have built things with them.   I was a forest entomology/pathology researcher for several years and have a good appreciation about how much damage insects can cause.

In your case, since you are skidding the logs over snow and it is still winter, I don't see any reason why you need to take the bark off first, but come spring it will be a different story.

My friends' WoodMizer was bigger than yours and mounted on a trailer so he could pull it behind his truck.  No idea what model it was, but it could mill logs longer than 16', had hydraulics to lift the logs onto the carriage, and the bandsaw part was pulled though the log with a motor-driven chain drive.  He had made a living with his mill in the past.  I met him in the kayak-building world so I already knew him before I started building our cabin.

Looks like you are making great progress.  I have found it very satisfying to build with boards that I helped mill up from logs.  You've gone one step further... 

Keep them pictures and post coming!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 21, 2011, 09:09:09 PM
Do you have a moisture meter?

Not yet, but I plan on getting one :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on February 26, 2011, 06:40:17 AM
No work this weekend :(  Kids moving in (son-in-law was laid off) and I'm fighting a sinus thing.  SO it's stay home, eat soup and relax all weekend -- and plot the next trip!

I have plans to get more bodies to the cabin and get all the logs staged for the mill while a crew works the mill -- with luck we can get about 10-15 logs milled in a weekend if we have the bodies and stage well.

Then in the middle of next month we will have a family trip to the cabin :)  Mostly to enjoy the place (and work a little)...but come spring weather we'll finish the wiring and start on the interior finish!  WHoohoo!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 06, 2011, 09:03:38 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0087-1.jpg&hash=9166b65b814c668093bd120cebe77425)
No time to report but I thought I'd toss this up :)

My step son on the left runs the mill and my son-in-law to be on the right is the helper :)  I'm the foreman!

We had a great weekend and despite it hitting 10 degrees last night we stayed warm :)

One issue we had however, was the sewer pipe freezing AGAIN!  I moved the heat trace to cover ALL of it this time and put it on the solar power in hopes it will be thawed come next weekend.

More to follow after sleep and work!
Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 07, 2011, 06:27:25 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0031-1.jpg&hash=4bc8687734a28a69b61b13a5e3a76822)
I worked late Friday so we weren't able to head out until about 6:30pm which meant a LATE arrival at the cabin in the best of conditions...which we did not have.

After driving two hours to get home, then packing the jeep and heading out I was tired to start with.  Then we ran into a blizzard!  It snowed on us for the last 100 miles of driving and got worse and worse.  By the time we arrived at our private road to head into the hills my eyes were exhausted!  We chained up, however, and drove to the cabin as the snow finally let up...hmmmmm..

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0033.jpg&hash=fe7e1b09abb6409524294057c153b970)
Once at the cabin I plonked my butt into my comfy chair by the wood stove and got the stove lit while the boys unloaded the Road Warrior (Jeep).  It was 40 degrees inside the cabin and 20 out -- very nice!  Didn't take long to warm it up.

It was 1am before I passed out (which is WAY past my bedtime) and 4am before I stoked the fire again.  Ahh life in the cabin during the winter - but I don't mind.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0039.jpg&hash=aea7b4cb5db6e64bcd06f58d85003080)
Next morning we slept in, then had breakfast (Scrambled eggs with bacon and sausage with sourdough bread and coffee of course) and finally got busy around 11am.

We had to pull up logs that were burried in 15" of snow but the jeep worked as a skidder and the boys choked em up.  We managed to pull the last of one tree up leaving us 5 new logs and the old log we'd left on the mill.  Good enough for me.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0049-1.jpg&hash=734b63e09d73c8afaa74af71a115cfb6)
Josh set to quarter sawing the old pine in hopes of giving us some nice quarter sawn blue stain for the cabinets.  This is by far the longest way to mill a log!  It took 2 1/2 hours to mill on 16" log this way!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0052-1.jpg&hash=e377c0158b29a107b2a5613d4a5b873a)
I've read, however, that quarter sawn lumber is the best for furniture making etc so we milled this one up that way.  You should be able to see the grain better in these.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0053.jpg&hash=d65b21ec32dd8c1505f9ce5b978ad330)
Or these.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0064.jpg&hash=621a82005274775d99dc05802efe81a5)
We stickered and stacked the lumber up to 4 feet high before running out of stickers!  I'll have to make some now, as well as bring more pallets.  All in all we're very happy and milled the 5 new logs in 2 1/2 hours -- and we're still learning.

We did manage to come close to the 100 board feet an hour this mill can do but we have some learning to do still :)  Either way, the learning is making us pine to put in the cabin :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0074.jpg&hash=60b1abba4957f463e8ff96990784253d)
And so another weekend passes and we had to leave.  Staying for just a couple days isn't enough!  I want to stay for WEEKS!

Oh and I should mention that our sewer pipe froze again :(  The heat trace wasn't hooked up to cabin power because I haven't run the power fully yet.  I have plans to run romex back to the composter in the spring but for now it's either a generator or find a hole to stuff an extension cord through.  SO we opted for the genny -- mistake -- and the pipe froze on us!!!!

By Sunday morning I knew we were in trouble and couldn't use the toilet again and we set the genny running to warm the pipe.  However it just wasn't good enough!  Then I realized the problem was the way I ran the heat trace.  It was wrapped only near the top couple feet of the pipe because that is where I originally had the problem, so we unwrapped all the insulation and re-wrapped the heat trace and the insulation -- this time covering the entire pipe.  The boys then ran an extension cord under the cabin and up into the porch and plugged it into the solar power.

Now I think it will thaw out and be ready for the next trip :)  I hope so!  But with temps hitting 40 degrees during the day I'm confident -- it's just those 10 degree nights that worry me.

Cheers
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rniles on March 09, 2011, 06:57:04 PM
Love the pics ....got a lot of work done ..that mill really seems to be handy!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 10, 2011, 06:07:42 AM
Love the pics ....got a lot of work done ..that mill really seems to be handy!

Thanks -- it is amazing :)  After milling some lumber with a Chainsaw Mill the WoodMizer is a Ferrari!  We actually enjoy using it, it's easy to run and the lumber coming off of it is promising :)

Going back this weekend to drag logs up and stage as many as I can -- 3 days this time!  WHooHoo!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on March 10, 2011, 06:55:11 AM
You might want to collect as many as you can now, if there is still snow on the ground. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 10, 2011, 07:46:04 AM
You might want to collect as many as you can now, if there is still snow on the ground. 

That's the plan Don :)  It has it's challenges but with all 4 corners chained up on the Jeep I should have no problem getting to the logs and dragging them back.  I hope to stage a dozen logs in the milling area (landing) so that we can get serious next trip and really get milling!

Then I'll get a router table made and start milling T&G sometime in April :D 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on March 10, 2011, 09:19:19 AM
Nice stack of lumber!   c*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 10, 2011, 09:21:43 AM
Nice stack of lumber!   c*

Thanks!  We hope to have a few more soon :D  Then we will finish the cabin and get to work on out buildings all with as much (if not all) the lumber we can mill from our own trees.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 15, 2011, 07:01:38 AM
Had a good weekend at the cabin with my wife and kids and a nefew and his GF :)  We managed to get a dozen logs ready to mill and milled on old Blue Stained Pine for making end tables -- we milled it at 3" deep to make heavy tops but as it was a bit thin we'll have to use two pieces to make one top -- I'll drill holes in the side and glue dowels into the holes to attach two 8" boards together.

I plan to use small saplings for legs and coat it in poly.  Of course have to wait for it to dry mind you.

Also got the freezer hooked up and working on the solar power and used the iota charger as the sun just wasn't coming out.

Next I'll have to get some heavier gauge wire for the charger as all I had was 10awg which is MUCH too small (so I had to constantly monitor while charging).  I'll replace the wiring (just couldn't find the cables I bought for it in the first place) next trip.

I also plan to get two more GCB's for the system to increase capacity and with luck will be picking up a small fridge for it also.

I can't wait to get back and the next trip my son (Kurt) will be coming too! 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rniles on March 15, 2011, 07:07:45 AM
Sounds like you had a great time ...how was the snow up there?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 15, 2011, 07:42:18 AM
Sounds like you had a great time ...how was the snow up there?

Snowing again this week  d*  Last year the snow was all but gone by now but this year we've had a LOT more.  Still up to 15" in areas and the road was out-of-this-world bad!  Even with all 4 corners chained up I slid on one corner!!!  I've NEVER had that happen before.

Seems the 8" of solid ice covered with a few inches of melting snow/slush makes for a slippy road.

Actually got to use the Winch for something other then logging this trip too!  One of the residents had slid off the road in her toyota truck and couldn't get back onto the road.  She was at the top of a steep steep part of the road and precariously on the bank stopped by rocks from going down the bank (a long way)....so we hooked up the winch and hauled her out :)

Jeep!  The Yota recovery vehicle :D  [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rniles on March 17, 2011, 06:48:56 AM
A good samaritan you! I've been watching the weather and it seems the cascades are just getting hammered ...I thought some of that would be spilling over in the Okanogan valley.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 23, 2011, 08:23:10 PM
Yup - the weather has been brutal this year!

I've been working on some solar power stuff and it looks like I can run a fridge and freezer 24x7 in the summer and 'should' be ok with 6-8 batteries (220ah gcb's)....it's probably safe since we get a lot of sun but I bet it could be touchy if the rains came on and it actually rained for a week straight in June which I have seen....though I doubt the freezer would thaw mind you, since it wouldn't get opened.

Anyway, just something I'm working on...might have to consider 1 more panel and 10 batteries to push the range out a bit...but I'm only planning on running these on low settings and the freezer only if actually needed in which case it would be full or partially full so ought to use less energy.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: glenn kangiser on March 23, 2011, 08:55:58 PM
Mill is looking good, OJ.

We use 50/50 diesel and chainsaw bar oil for blade lube.  Sprayed on while cutting it is not really noticeable on the wood later.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 24, 2011, 01:24:47 PM
Mill is looking good, OJ.

We use 50/50 diesel and chainsaw bar oil for blade lube.  Sprayed on while cutting it is not really noticeable on the wood later.

Interesting combination.  Woodmizer recommends water for most milling and we haven't tried anything else yet...we're getting about the life we're told to expect out of the blades but we're newbies too.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 28, 2011, 09:33:13 AM
Got up this weekend and milled a little more lumber, burned slash and chopped firewood :)

Now I'm looking for a new charge controller :(  At $500 a unit more or less I'm a little sore that I already bought and put to use the C40 ($111) but on the other hand I'm kind of excited because with just about 200 watts of charging power I almost had what I needed with the batteries I have (6 now, soon to be 8) so I figure with an MPPT controller I will probably be doing the sun dance soon :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 29, 2011, 05:38:46 AM
Oi!  Got the controller coming :D  So now I'll have to make a trip to clean up the solar power and perhaps finish the battery box -- and I might as well add two more batteries while I'm at it...hmmm....so much to do!

I've got a few pics from the last trip :)  I'll post soon.  All in all, we've got a lot of work to do but it's nice to be able to go up and just relax a little too :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 29, 2011, 08:12:24 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0076-1.jpg&hash=99d387840695f95f0acab6f765024b73)
Woke up Saturday morning and thought "someone please smack Al Gore!"

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0086.jpg&hash=ac58417f67841c405e65ecae9ac199eb)
But the snow melted (Global Warming?  *snicker*) and we got to work!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0087-2.jpg&hash=fce53fd27d5efc61930a9a871c53e501)
The boys were milling away before I realized I was out of stickers!!!  Yikes!  Well, maybe next trip I'll remember to make that happen -- as in I'll get the boys to make stickers out of cheapo 1x4's and take them up with us so we can mill the 9 remaining logs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0092-1.jpg&hash=8b5125b7325c91f54fc04176b51f0aba)
And then Global Cooling took place again....funny how that seems to happen a lot in the winter...wonder why...oh Al Gore, buddy ol' pal.....I wanna smack you!"

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0098.jpg&hash=f272fdc08c99be71ff8060fa3a1e1ffa)
Last year this time it was warmer by a bunch, the snow was gone, we were sleeping in a tent trailer and framing the gabled ends and sheeting the roof...hmmmmm......

Anyway, life is good and the retreat motors along :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on March 29, 2011, 10:23:41 AM
 heh heh  yeah, that Al Gore - it's all his fault!!!  Great pix, btw!  You're getting a lot of lumber piled up there.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on March 30, 2011, 12:31:47 PM
Good deal OJ ... I can't wait for the snow to finally let me up to my place. I have a feeling it's going to be like 3 years ago .. I could barely make it in there on the first of June... and when I went up and tried on the first weekend in May, I could get about 1 mile from my place and then the truck would be buried to the axles.

Your place looks like it gets snow, but it seems to disappear during the day ... nice.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on March 30, 2011, 02:00:10 PM
Some neighbors by me said their still getting snow but its on the retreat. 

Gearing up for another trip over myself.   ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on March 30, 2011, 03:32:25 PM
We're getting snow almost daily but it mostly melts during the day now and I could drive right up without chains!  It was dicey once or twice but not too bad.

I have had a little experience with deep snow and slush on top of ice and fully understand why you two can't drive up in the winter!  I'm VERY lucky to have a neighbor that lives full time above me (he's at 3600') and who keeps the road traveled.

When are you headed up Yonderosa?  Perhaps we might get together?  I plan to be up twice in April if all goes well and maybe once for a couple extra days.

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on March 30, 2011, 05:29:05 PM
no firm date yet.  Just need a window of opportunity. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 01, 2011, 01:10:19 PM
no firm date yet.  Just need a window of opportunity. 

Well let me know when you head up and if we're going to be up the same time we might have to get together.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 01, 2011, 05:31:00 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0113.jpg&hash=a6c5f6a23c3f9d5baa41aea96bcb305f)
This arrived today :D

It's about 3 times the size of the Xantrex C40 and I can't wait to plug it in, get it up and running and get a laptop plugged into it too!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 05, 2011, 11:54:05 AM
You have internet access up there?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 05, 2011, 01:20:13 PM
You have internet access up there?

Nope -- but if I did it would be sweet!

Just plug the laptop in to get stats etc...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 06, 2011, 06:02:54 AM
Yeah, I might not come down from the mountain in the summer if I had the 'net up at my place... I'd work from there if I could. 

Good to see the progress you're making even with the white stuff going on.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: curlewdave on April 06, 2011, 08:42:42 AM
We headed  to Colville and got Wild Blue installed at our place over by Curlew...Works great.  If you look at the topic on homes under 500 square feet you'll see our cabin with two dishes on it, one for the satellite TV and the other for our computer....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 06, 2011, 10:29:41 AM
We headed  to Colville and got Wild Blue installed at our place over by Curlew...Works great.  If you look at the topic on homes under 500 square feet you'll see our cabin with two dishes on it, one for the satellite TV and the other for our computer....

Dave if you don't mind reveiling how much the installation and monthly fee is on the internet?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: curlewdave on April 06, 2011, 10:34:19 AM
At the time we got free installation and paid about 60 bucks a month on a 2-year contract.  That was a few years ago.  You might want to go to the Wild Blue site and check it out now...Dave
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: curlewdave on April 06, 2011, 11:01:32 AM
My wife just checked out the Hughes Net site and felt it had a better deal, but check them both out...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 06, 2011, 02:54:35 PM
Neighbors have Satellite internet but told me it's limited until midnight (not sure how much) and $64 a month but they could get much better...I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 11, 2011, 05:07:24 AM
Next trip in the works :)

Supposed to snow all week....someone check the calendar but I think it's April isn't it?  With luck we'll scoot out of here Thursday night or Friday morning and have lots of time to mill lumber, make T&G for the walls and upgrade the solar power :)

We'll be going back the following weekend too so we can get more done and then again after that...spring is in the air! :D

It looks like the snow will be flying until Wed or Thur but then it's supposed to get above 50 for the weekend!  NICE!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 18, 2011, 09:18:03 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0234.jpg&hash=bea373130fbdae15eca4a5fa3eb88168)
Got up this weekend and milled a bit more lumber for the cabin.  I'm hopeful that the last weekend of the month we will be able to make T&G and start hammering it up.  It would be a nice change of pace I think.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0245.jpg&hash=d3732c6fb63aa652837a41e299af4496)
I have much work to do here also.  Namely, installing conduit and correcting wire lengths and types as well as getting the ground properly installed (we ran into rocks last time and then the ground froze).  However, I did manage to get the new charge controller in and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!  Amazing what the right parts to the puzzle can do.  Now the batteries should be easily kept to charge throughout the day and I just need to add two more now and I should be able to run a freezer all summer long :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0236.jpg&hash=dad73091f87972f7be4864de15fb64e2)
Sleeping quarters for an old Marine :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0240.jpg&hash=556c07e850f841275428ddfd44529032)
The parlor ;)  This is where my evenings are spent reading.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0241.jpg&hash=aaa1f2729eb3014e7ad30bde94e57aa8)
Dinning Room :)  We salvaged an old table of my mother-in-law's for the cabin and it fits nicely.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rniles on April 18, 2011, 09:24:31 AM
It is looking like a wonderful home-sweet-away-from-home!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 18, 2011, 09:25:43 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fsolar3.jpg&hash=298833f2cfa0af554b0323345a9e0aea)
The new controller is installed (mostly) and running.  I found it interesting to watch what it is doing and can't wait to get back and start tidying up the install -- I also plan to install the battery temp sensor so it can adjust voltages for temperature.

One thing I wasn't certain of, was what the settings for the GCB's should be so I chose flooded cell batteries and hope to get that sorted before returning in case I need to make some changes.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fsolar2.jpg&hash=5d2909bf80df380af6a1a66bdbe4f013)
The sun kinda came and went (partially cloudy with times of full sun throughout the weekend).

One thing that disappointed me was that despite getting the batteries pretty much fully charged they dropped to a reported 0'30% charge over night.  It did, however, get below freezing but we only ran 3 CFL's and the inverter on Saturday night.  The lights ran about 6 hours and of course the inverter for 24 but I didn't expect the batteries to drop that much.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 19, 2011, 07:31:35 AM
Looking good jarhead ... wish my project was coming along that well !  Your place looks nice and cozy there by the wood stove.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on April 24, 2011, 02:23:31 PM
Looking good jarhead ... wish my project was coming along that well !  Your place looks nice and cozy there by the wood stove.

It's cozy alright!

Helps that I can take most every other weekend to drive to the cabin and work on it...and that I'm an old Jarhead that refuses to let up! :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on April 25, 2011, 06:03:51 AM
It's cozy alright!

Helps that I can take most every other weekend to drive to the cabin and work on it...and that I'm an old Jarhead that refuses to let up! :D

HA!  yeah, I suppose that hard-headedness of you ol' jarheads (read jar-he-ads) does prove useful ... some might say "too dumb to quit", but not me  ;)

Just funnin' with yah  :)  I know better'n to cross a jarhead, old or otherwise  ;D

Of course I have a stubborn streak in me, but never was a jarhead ... three years ago I was stubborn enough to try getting up to the property alone (around Mother's day) and buried the axles in the snow.  If it hadn't been for the neighbor that was just down the hill 1/4 mile I would have been stuck for a while.  I'm chomping at the bit to head up to the place now already (now that I have some $$ set aside for gas and building supplies). but it will still be about another month yet, I think. - been watching the snow mobile ads, too.

When I finally get up there, we'll have to meet for coffee or lunch.  Conconully might be good or Omak...

Keep working on that place - it looks like a great retreat! 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 01, 2011, 07:25:32 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWall.jpg&hash=e17dcffa8094c52c4185c73c11fe43f9)
We have a wall!

Not much time to post but suffice to say we had a great weekend and managed to plane and router enough pine to cover one wall :)  Looks awesome, feels awesome!

More soon :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Pine Cone on May 01, 2011, 09:02:02 PM
Looks great!

Nothing like being able to say that the wood you're looking at came from your own property [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 02, 2011, 07:51:31 AM
That is absolutely AWESOME!  Looks good too.  I love how it looks up there on that wall... and from your own place, too... very cool  [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 02, 2011, 01:59:14 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FKurt_planing.jpg&hash=ca0ec549127e4ab4e8a542aad420ccc4)
We started the weekend by planing down about 15 boards we'd milled at 5/8 x 8-9" x 8' to 1/2" in thickness (they didn't shrink much despite being well dried).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fplaning.jpg&hash=4ba4cdc252c1e4d584d76f18b9c10cdb)
Planing them down was a bit of a chore and easiest with 3 of us doing it.  The Ryobi planer worked very well though!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fchips.jpg&hash=e501923cd04bc977bc08919844beed74)
We captured most of the chips to save for the composting toilet :)

Then we ripped all the boards in half because I was worried about cupping as some (few) had cupped a little in drying.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FmillingTG.jpg&hash=55a2f4f6eb8cf4f060b5c005ba7640c4)
Then we began running them through the router table we made on the spot to make them into Tongue and Groove.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FKurtJosh.jpg&hash=dee1c4b4287d2f02332739f958afde93)
The boys did a great job of this and we planed enough for one wall.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FMakingTG.jpg&hash=36829cb2077566a4e21a0bfb5fcff927)
This is a shot of our crude but effective router table.  HEY!  It worked! :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 02, 2011, 02:20:09 PM
I might add that anyone with a sharp eye will notice all the Ryobi tools in this pick.  I have had very good luck with them and most of my power tools are Ryobi with the exception of my skill saws and my Miter Saw (and wood mill...)...they work well and many of them have years of use from them...all for a lot less $$ then Makita (my miter) or Dewalt (my sawzall)....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on May 03, 2011, 04:11:44 AM
Looks mighty good!  I'm very impressed.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 03, 2011, 07:36:23 AM
Looks mighty good!  I'm very impressed.



Thanks Yonderosa!  I'm very excited and having now milled the trees we fell into lumber, dried it, planed it, milled it into T&G and nailed it up I feel a real sense of accomplishment!!!  Thinking back a couple years I had no idea I'd be doing this! :)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 03, 2011, 08:26:01 AM
My next trip is in the works and should be a busy one!  I have SOOOO much to do still but I have to both budget what I do as well as prioritize it and pace myself.  So the next trip should include the following:

1.  Dig irrigation well, root cellar, outhouse hole and gray water drain holes.  We may also expand the area around the composting toilet shelter to improve it.  We will be renting an excavator and a friend will do the honors.
2.  Remove insulation from walls and finish drilling them for wiring and then pull in wiring.
3.  Continue to plane lumber for the walls and make it into T&G.
4.  Finish framing the wall behind the stove and mount the hardy backer board to it (need to shorten the board too) so we can finish the paneling on that wall.
5.  Put a cripple stud in above the door.

And with luck maybe we can get some more T7G on the walls and burn a bunch of slash and mill scraps.

So much to do!

We also have 18 more Red Oaks to try to plant (assuming my plan to save the saplings works -- I had the boys plant them in the garden in weed barrier sacks as we didn't have time to plan them all) and I need to get at least two apple trees planted up there also but I want to make sure they have the standard root balls so they will survive the colder climate of our property (it was down to 20 Saturday night but up to 60 during the day Sunday).

My plan was to have the interior paneling in by the end of spring but it's a slow process so I might have to shift that to well into the summer.  So, with that in mind I also have at least one more tree to drop right away (to clear the panels for more sunlight) and we could get that milled and dried for use this summer.

My son also wanted to make a night stand with lumber we milled so we may try to do some of that also.

I think I need a cabin party soon!!!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: rniles on May 03, 2011, 08:50:19 AM
Very nicely done! Looks good and straight down from your own trees. Nice.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 03, 2011, 09:15:03 AM
Very nicely done! Looks good and straight down from your own trees. Nice.

Thanks :)  I just can't wait to do more!!! We have a LOT of wood ready to finish and the idea of having a finished interior is very motivating!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 07, 2011, 05:47:52 AM
I've been going to the cabin every other weekend, for the most part, and admit that while I need to do things at home (like get some garden work done, laundry etc) I'd much rather be at the cabin milling lumber and turning it into paneling!  However I have to start gathering supplies for the next trip so what better time then now?

My current list includes:

1.  Romex Staples (my old supply is running low)
2.  Fresh Air Intake - I've not installed it yet but need to do so before the cabin is closed in.
3.  90 degree drill attachment (I've got some spots I can't get my drill into so plan to get something I can with).
4.  DC Fan installed in conduit for vent stack of composter (I broke the last one so need to get this one fixed and installed.
5.  Wire for composter fan (need to take 12vdc about 20 feet so I'm thinking I should use some decent wire)

I also plan to get some cereal rye and FINALLY found where I can buy it by the 200lbs bag!  It's a bit spendy but I think it will be worth it (it can be used for cover crop / soil fixing, grains for bread, grazing for deer and more).

And I also need to get a couple fruit trees and some fencing as well as 10 feet of 24" PVC pipe for the new well...man I have work to do!!!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: mogie01 on May 08, 2011, 12:55:50 PM
Wow, great work.  We wouldn't even attempt at try to make our own panelling  [cool]  - it would save us a bunch of money
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 09, 2011, 05:57:31 AM
I've been going to the cabin every other weekend, for the most part, and admit that while I need to do things at home (like get some garden work done, laundry etc) I'd much rather be at the cabin milling lumber and turning it into paneling!  However I have to start gathering supplies for the next trip so what better time then now?

My current list includes:

1.  Romex Staples (my old supply is running low)
2.  Fresh Air Intake - I've not installed it yet but need to do so before the cabin is closed in.
3.  90 degree drill attachment (I've got some spots I can't get my drill into so plan to get something I can with).
4.  DC Fan installed in conduit for vent stack of composter (I broke the last one so need to get this one fixed and installed.
5.  Wire for composter fan (need to take 12vdc about 20 feet so I'm thinking I should use some decent wire)

I also plan to get some cereal rye and FINALLY found where I can buy it by the 200lbs bag!  It's a bit spendy but I think it will be worth it (it can be used for cover crop / soil fixing, grains for bread, grazing for deer and more).

And I also need to get a couple fruit trees and some fencing as well as 10 feet of 24" PVC pipe for the new well...man I have work to do!!!

Did you find that rye close to you or are you ordering it on the net? (my guess is close to you, but I thought I'd ask) ... I'm thinking a similar thing for up at my property, and in my garden overwinter.  I'm actually thinking wheat, rye, barley (I'd love to try malting and brewing from it), and oats (I have three separate gardens here at home).
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on May 09, 2011, 09:16:05 AM
Quote
3.  90 degree drill attachment (I've got some spots I can't get my drill into so plan to get something I can with).

Ryobi makes a nice 90 degree 18 volt drill
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 09, 2011, 03:20:33 PM
Did you find that rye close to you or are you ordering it on the net? (my guess is close to you, but I thought I'd ask) ... I'm thinking a similar thing for up at my property, and in my garden overwinter.  I'm actually thinking wheat, rye, barley (I'd love to try malting and brewing from it), and oats (I have three separate gardens here at home).
http://www.seedsource.com/catalog/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=8050

Found it there :)

Not sure how oats would do but I'm of the same frame of mind ;)

THe rye can be used for bread as well as wiskey ;) or just feeding the deer and fixing the soil.

I'd actually like at least an acre of everything you mentioned except maybe the barley and add corn :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 09, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
Ryobi makes a nice 90 degree 18 volt drill

THanks Don!  I'll check it out.  I have a lot of their stuff and it's treated me well over the years.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 10, 2011, 06:30:09 AM
http://www.seedsource.com/catalog/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=8050

Found it there :)

Not sure how oats would do but I'm of the same frame of mind ;)

THe rye can be used for bread as well as wiskey ;) or just feeding the deer and fixing the soil.

I'd actually like at least an acre of everything you mentioned except maybe the barley and add corn :)

Well, corn is going to get planted late this week and into next ... harvest will be in August/September time frame - at which time the entire 40' X 25' bed will get tilled, and seeded with one or two of the four I mentioned.

Like you, I'd love an acre of each - which is why I'm going to try a test plot up at the property this fall and see how it goes.  From all my research, rye and winter wheat (and barley, to some extent) will over winter pretty good and then take off in the spring.  Which means I'll have to plant here and run up there to harvest!  I think that's a good excuse to have to go to the Ranch, don't you? "Beautiful, I HAVE to go and get that wheat and rye off the property or it will simply rot!" :D

Another reason to get an ORV to get up there as early as I can...

Thanks for the link!  I'm going to run and check it out
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 12, 2011, 07:58:11 PM
WhooHoo!  Took the day off tomorrow so will be leaving early to get to the cabin and get working :) ;D [cool]

I'm pretty excited actually!  Why?  Becuase while we go every two weeks we don't always go with a lot of planning or things in mind but sometimes I have the chance to plan things out a bit and it's those times I get most excited about going :)  This time I plan wiring, paneling and more!

I'll take pictures :D

Seeya!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 15, 2011, 07:08:16 PM
Just got in but wanted to share some pictures.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWestwall.jpg&hash=ad6b86a4b3882f938b2f3c028e374d7c)
We installed the wiring on the West wall (the one with the stove) and installed the hardy board.  Then put the insulation in and began nailing up our pine paneling.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fcornerwall.jpg&hash=3016c92f0f77e25766cd6bd2e8216b53)
We had a little trouble getting used to the new router table I bought on the way up and had to mill the paneling in 4' and 5' sections until we got used to it then went back to 8' pieces.  Overall we had a great weekend and you can see the results :)

I'll get more of all we did later but wanted to share this.

Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 16, 2011, 04:59:19 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fwiring.jpg&hash=f736b2df362045a984f7031573fb6387)
Once we arrived Friday and got set up Kurt and I set to planing boards while Josh and James (son-in-law to be) installed some wiring and stuffed insulation back in -- except this time they staples it and got the wall ready for paneling.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fhardy.jpg&hash=d5fa5690fd7f413401aaa47b0f8cbec0)
Saturday Kurt and I picked out a nice chunk of 2x stock, ripped it to 5 1/2" and then ran it through the plane once or twice to take the roughness out (didn't need it though) and then used it to frame the wall behind the stove for the hardy board.  Which we then installed over the insulation.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Finstall1.jpg&hash=7d99c64843b1edbac2cc8a8930790208)
With all that prep work done we began nailing up panel as it was made -- ok I let them make enough to get ahead of me and then Kurt and I installed panel while Josh and James made it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fburningslash-1.jpg&hash=a69524253f621408093d1db403a0b549)
Saturday James spent much of his time burning a big slash pile.  It was great to get rid of it :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 17, 2011, 05:35:48 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fcornerwall-1.jpg&hash=980bdc547387e2d5ccee04df292ae19f)
Just something about being at this stage of the build that makes me want to take a week and go back and stay and work on it!  But I can't :(

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FStovewall.jpg&hash=4cb8c5176bb5f2f2c5b7cecfc103db75)
So I guess these pictures will have to sustain me for a while.  I don't expect to have the interior done until mid to late summer but can't wait!!!  The day we drive up, pack in, and kick back for a weekend is the day I'll be in heaven :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on May 17, 2011, 06:09:01 PM
nice paneling!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 17, 2011, 08:21:14 PM
nice paneling!

Thanks Sassy :)  We think so too!  I just CANNOT wait to get it all done!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 19, 2011, 01:20:57 PM
Is it possible to be addicted to working on your cabin and being there?  I'm just asking!

Seriously though, I'm finding it very hard to be motivated to work or do other things right now because I can't stop thinking about getting more done!  Sheesh!  You'd think after nearly two years I'd at least be ok with a two week break...and it's only been 3 days!!!

Ahh well, guess I better get back to work...
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Pine Cone on May 19, 2011, 08:13:47 PM
Is it possible to be addicted to working on your cabin and being there?  I'm just asking!

Seriously though, I'm finding it very hard to be motivated to work or do other things right now because I  ::)can't stop thinking about getting more done!  Sheesh!  You'd think after nearly two years I'd at least be ok with a two week break...and it's only been 3 days!!!

Ahh well, guess I better get back to work...

Been there, done that...

And you're in the wrong place if you want any sympathy ;D

My project is less than an hour away from home or work and in the last 5 years the longest break in visits was about 3 weeks and that was because the Hood Canal floating bridge was closed for 5 weeks, turning a 45 minute drive into a 2-hour drive.

Until this year when the cabin was pretty much finished I made 3 or 4 trips per week.  I can't imagine the additional stress I would have had if I couldn't go out at least once a week.  I used to spend my sleepless nights thinking about different ways of doing this or that.  I'm pretty sure I built my cabin more than a dozen times in my dreams/nightmares before I actually got it finished. 

In the end, all the pondering and obsessing resulted in a variety of great design changes.  The most obvious is our 16'x16' foot covered deck which wasn't even a glimmer of a possibility in the first two years of the cabin design ideas.  It showed up in part because I was thinking about what the view might look like if I stood on the porch I originally planned to build.  Didn't like what I seemed to be building, couldn't blame the design on anyone but me, so it was up to me to come up with a better solution.

Early on in my cabin project I realized that if I wasn't sure about what to do next, the correct answer was to do nothing but obsess about it until I figured out what the next step was.  Pauses and some deep breaths can often prevent some small problems turning into big ones...

This year I'm working hard at making sure I relax some most days I go out.  There will always be an unlimited number of new and old projects trying to get my attention. 

I guess I'm still addicted...  ::)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 20, 2011, 04:44:53 AM
OH boy I think we're related!!!

I can lay in bed at night and think about various parts of the build.....for HOURS!

Or on my drive to work...


Or at work.....

It's a sickness I guess :)  But I can't wait to get back and mill some lumber and and and
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: duncanshannon on May 20, 2011, 10:44:53 AM
Ha!

Love where this thread is going.  I'm suprised by how much I'm thinking, learning, and planning my home remodel 3 year plan!  Once home is done, THEN onto the cabin!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 23, 2011, 08:24:12 AM
OH boy I think we're related!!!

I can lay in bed at night and think about various parts of the build.....for HOURS!

Or on my drive to work...


Or at work.....

It's a sickness I guess :)  But I can't wait to get back and mill some lumber and and and

When you run out of logs to mill at your place, I can probably fell a couple trees at mine for you to mill  ;D  I know what you mean about the addiciton - I haven't been to mine in nearly 6months, and it's driving me nuts (some might say that's a short walk, no need to drive)... and to top it off, I was planning on next weekend, but that has to change to the weekend after next (I don't think the snow is enough gone to get in there!)... then it will be 3-4 weeks before I can get back up there!

Ah well ... I'm looking forward to it, though! :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 23, 2011, 01:21:57 PM
Very little snow out there now...maybe traces up around 5k feet but I just can't there being that much up there now...none at all at the 3280 feet we're at or Gordon's 3700.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 23, 2011, 01:24:52 PM
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=48.60204136700653&lon=-119.75509643554688&site=otx&unit=0&lg=en&FcstType=text

Mid 50's during the day at 4500 feet west of Tonasket (don't know where you are but figured you're over there somewhere) and mid 40's at night...how high are you?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 23, 2011, 01:33:40 PM
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=48.60204136700653&lon=-119.75509643554688&site=otx&unit=0&lg=en&FcstType=text

Mid 50's during the day at 4500 feet west of Tonasket (don't know where you are but figured you're over there somewhere) and mid 40's at night...how high are you?

I'm at 3900' - 4300' - but it's shaded pretty much all the way in once you get off the county road.  I'm  up north of Buzzard Lake ... between there and Conconully.

There is still snow in the Loup Loup pass web cam shots (although VERY little), but 3 years ago I went up the first of May because the web cam showed no snow, and gave up about 100 yards in from the county road because it was still axle deep.  I went back a month later and got to within 3/4 of a mile, and it was still axle deep at that point.  Last year the snow went out fairly early and I was able to get up there on the first weekend in May.  Still had some snow, but not so much I couldn't get in to the property and put the floor down.

I think I really do need a snow capable machine.  d*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 24, 2011, 04:34:34 AM
I'm at 3900' - 4300' - but it's shaded pretty much all the way in once you get off the county road.  I'm  up north of Buzzard Lake ... between there and Conconully.

There is still snow in the Loup Loup pass web cam shots (although VERY little), but 3 years ago I went up the first of May because the web cam showed no snow, and gave up about 100 yards in from the county road because it was still axle deep.  I went back a month later and got to within 3/4 of a mile, and it was still axle deep at that point.  Last year the snow went out fairly early and I was able to get up there on the first weekend in May.  Still had some snow, but not so much I couldn't get in to the property and put the floor down.

I think I really do need a snow capable machine.  d*

It would be good to have a couple sleds that's for sure!  You need to get Yonderosa to pop by and see if your road is open when he's in town :)  I think he's the closest.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 25, 2011, 04:42:55 AM
Ok!  I've worked 32 hours this week already :D  That means I won't work Friday (our holiday is only Monday) and most likely won't work most of Thursday :D

Which means I'll be leaving for the cabin Thursday afternoon and will have Friday-Monday to work on it!  WHooHoo!!!! 

We will mill a tree I fell, maybe fall another and mill it and we'll work on interior and wiring me thinks :)

I'm totally stoked!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on May 25, 2011, 08:57:03 AM
Ok!  I've worked 32 hours this week already :D  That means I won't work Friday (our holiday is only Monday) and most likely won't work most of Thursday :D

Which means I'll be leaving for the cabin Thursday afternoon and will have Friday-Monday to work on it!  WHooHoo!!!! 

We will mill a tree I fell, maybe fall another and mill it and we'll work on interior and wiring me thinks :)

I'm totally stoked!

I hope you have lots of fun!  I made the mistake of letting Beautiful know that I wasn't going this weekend and she immediately scheduled something on Sunday, so that put the nail in it for this weekend.  That's ok, though, the pass-cam still shows a bit of snow up there which means there's a bit more up on the way to the ranch.  Planning on next weekend tho and can't wait!

Sounds like you're set for a good productive, fun weekend! ;D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on May 31, 2011, 05:05:26 AM
Had a great long weekend at the cabin :)  Finished another wall, milled some lumber and more.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fdining.jpg&hash=63a31a88fa2f5a67288ffacaf80b61dc)
It's really starting to brighten up and looks amazing :)  A lot of fun too.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWalls.jpg&hash=7586f4a5f74b11bb49e53db382be8511)
Something about all that pine that I just can't get enough of.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fcorner2.jpg&hash=e4ecda208d5e7d8724cd384c025b9d67)
I'm thinking a wrought iron wood bin would be nice too.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fshelf2.jpg&hash=678b8237346f41f52e62845f6979e4cc)
Took some time to throw together a small shelf for the 'kitchen' too as I was tired of using boxes and bins.

I'm thinking of all sorts of things now :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 02, 2011, 06:47:04 AM
One thing I have to sort now, is whether or not to run a larger cable from the inverter to the AC panel.  I have a 12/3 cable running there now, which will allow up to 20 amps but more then that and it will likely be insufficient.  However, I'm not wiring the cabin to run a whole lot to begin with.

My thoughts?  Run the bigger cable so you can run 50amps some day if you get more panels and batteries and bigger inverter :)  I just need to sort the size and how to tie it into my inverter (probably the same way as right now which I'll have to shoot some pics of).

I need to also pick up some wire nuts as the small stock I have is for two wire connections and I have some 3 and even 4 wire connections I need to make (one box will have to switches - for two lights - and feed power to 3 receptacles).

I plan to finish all the wiring next trip and then get some clean up and organization done (as well as some milling).  Then later in the month or early next month I'll get back to paneling and try to get the lower interior completed.  Perhaps by the end of August I'll have the upper section done also.

And there is so much more to do!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 03, 2011, 07:38:11 AM
http://backwoodssolar.com/catalog/fans.htm#Remotely%20operated%20DC%20CEILING%20FAN%2012%20/%2024%20volt
Just ordered one of these :)

Can't wait to get it wired up and installed!  Of course we have to also insulate and panel the ceiling but the wiring for this has to be installed first.

I bought the 12vdc version so that if the inverter goes I can still run the fan :)  Also getting some other 12vdc items for the same reason and will be adding two more batteries in the next couple weeks.  That will take me to 880AH on the battery bank which should give me the power reserves I need to run the Fridge this summer.  I'll run it for two weeks, check the logs and then decide if I can run it all the time on the power I have or if I need 1000AH to do it...which may mean I'll need another panel but I'm uncertain at this point.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 06, 2011, 03:54:15 PM
http://www.dealtime.com/Danby-Designer-DAR1102W/info
WHooHoo!  Just bought one of these for $449 (free shipping).  I found that it used about 200 watts less per day then the ones with freezers that I saw.

I'm stoked!  Will have fridge and freezer and fan all working soon!  Time to get those two more batteries!  Also to remove the tree shading the panels at 2pm!

On a side note, I also found that the little camper stove (with small oven) is fine and indeed has a pilot light!  DOH!  So for now I'm nixing a cook stove and installing this one instead.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 07, 2011, 06:15:24 AM
http://www.dealtime.com/Danby-Designer-DAR1102W/info
WHooHoo!  Just bought one of these for $449 (free shipping).  I found that it used about 200 watts less per day then the ones with freezers that I saw.

I'm stoked!  Will have fridge and freezer and fan all working soon!  Time to get those two more batteries!  Also to remove the tree shading the panels at 2pm!

On a side note, I also found that the little camper stove (with small oven) is fine and indeed has a pilot light!  DOH!  So for now I'm nixing a cook stove and installing this one instead.

Sweet!  I've bookmarked that fan site for later.  I think it will come in quite handy for all the other solar stuff on there - thanks for posting it! [cool]
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 07, 2011, 11:45:04 AM
Sweet!  I've bookmarked that fan site for later.  I think it will come in quite handy for all the other solar stuff on there - thanks for posting it! [cool]

They are pretty good -- fast shipping, decent prices and lots of knowledge.  We bought a timer and relay for our well pump from them previously and will be buying a new well pump from them soon also.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 07, 2011, 12:03:42 PM
They are pretty good -- fast shipping, decent prices and lots of knowledge.  We bought a timer and relay for our well pump from them previously and will be buying a new well pump from them soon also.

Oh for the day I have to worry about getting water out of a hole in the ground!  Last estimate I got was $14,000 ...  :o  Guess I'm up too high and they figure to go to the core for water.  ???

Looks like you are making good progress and getting some enjoyment out of it, too!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on June 07, 2011, 02:58:36 PM
whether or not to run a larger cable from the inverter to the AC panel. 

I'd run as large a wire as needed to carry the maximum rated power output of the inverter. Not the surge as that is only of short lived duration.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 07, 2011, 03:21:21 PM
I'd run as large a wire as needed to carry the maximum rated power output of the inverter. Not the surge as that is only of short lived duration.

Max power of this inverter is 2500 watts but I was thinking that some day I might want to increase that and don't want to limit myself with too small a cable...though I guess if I install conduit the whole run end to end then it would be easy enough to pull out and pull in a new one in one go.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 08, 2011, 05:55:11 PM
Picked up two more Costco GCA's so we'll have 880AH of capacity now :)

Need to get a Hydrometer/Hygrometer as Don has suggested, for testing cells and I need to check water levels, add distilled water and equalize as needed -- and program the controller to better match the batteries (though it's darn close as is I think).

Then when the Fridge arrives we'll be in heaven :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 08, 2011, 08:10:31 PM
Looks like I will be able, in theory, to go 4 days without any charging at all with both the Fridge and Freezer running, as long as nothing else is running....so far I've not seen more then 1 or 2 days of little to no charging but usually get 3 hours of equalization and 7+ of float with the new controller....which is astounding to me but I guess as long as the sun hits the panels then I'm getting something out of them (can someone look at the off-grid power thread where I've posted some screen shots of the controller to let me know if what I am seeing is correct).

If that is so then I suspect I won't use as much power from the batteries as I think as the sun should run the appliances for nearly have the day during the summer and in reality they would only need to draw off the bank during the night -- when, presumably, they would also draw less power.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Barry Broome on June 09, 2011, 05:12:48 PM
Looking good!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 09, 2011, 08:23:25 PM
Thanks Weasel :)

We head out again tomorrow to do some clean up and get some wiring done (and install the new batteries).

I also hope to update the software for the controller and will get some more data from it.

Can't wait to get back!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 12, 2011, 07:58:59 PM
Manged to get more wiring done this weekend (we now have 4 working lights and many outlets), the DC fan installed for the composting toilet (and more vent pipes to get it venting higher then we've had it), reprogrammed the charge controller (I'll have to post stuff on that in the off-grid forum) and re-stacked our lumber in a more organized and better protected (from rain) method.

Had a lighting bolt strike within 100 yards of us (that was a little exciting) visited with a neighbor for a bit and generally enjoyed ourselves for the weekend :)

We also rotated the panels closer to true south and tilted them up at 68 degrees (to the vertical plane) in hopes of increasing solar power production -- however I'll have to remove a tree soon!

Speaking of rotating the panels I thought I would say something about that here.  I always (ALWAYS) carry a Lensatic compass with me when I go to the cabin, go hunting fishing etc etc.  I might not have my GPS but I always have my compass.  Anyway, here we were at the cabin and I decided to adjust the panels a bit better since I didn't do a very good job of it previously (hurried install with too much to do and I knew the cabin faced mostly south so the panels faced that way and away we went).

To adjust the panels I first used a level and framers stair compass (not sure it's exact name) which has degrees on it from 0 to 90 (I think it's 0-90 anyway).  I set the compass at 68 degrees and tilted the panels until they were inline with the 68 degree bar and the vertical bar was level.  Then we locked down the angle.

Next I stood in front of the panels (20 feet south of them) and aimed myself to magnetic north.  I wasn't 100% sure of the declination in WA State as I hadn't checked it in a while but figured it was 19 degrees East of True North so had my sun swing the panels until they lined up with my compass at 340 degrees and called it good (was easiest to go with 20 degrees at the time).  Interestingly enough when I got home and double checked the declination it IS 20 degrees East.

One way to remember how to adjust to True from Magnetic North for those who don't know is to use the LARS rule (something I learned in the Marine Corps).  All maps face north is the first rule -- that is, the top of the map is NORTH on all military maps and all UTM Grid maps I've ever used.  Second, all declination diagrams (usually a pointed angle on the map somewhere) show magnetic either LEFT or RIGHT of True.  So using the LARS rule -- LEFT ADD RIGHT SUBTRACT -- you either add or subtract the Declination from Magnetic in order to get True.

Most civilians say (I think anyway) that the Declination is 'to the east/west' or 'east/west of' True North which works too but I'll never forget LARS :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 12, 2011, 08:18:33 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FShadeonpanel.jpg&hash=be27b694517c9d9c1974c2f6ce862c60)
Around 2PM until about 3:30pm this tree feels the need to remind me that it needs to be cut down, bucked up and milled into paneling :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 13, 2011, 05:31:31 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0372.jpg&hash=9d320ed2b28b59df5cc6c4ab09cfb144)
The beginning stages of having power -- and a mess ;)

I need to trim the grounds I suppose and work on cleaning up the wiring coming into the box so it's at least a little neater but here is the beginnings of the cabin wiring.  I found a 100 amp panel with 8 breaker positions at Home Depot that was pretty inexpensive and grabbed it.  When installing it I found it did not have a ground bus!  So I bought one and mounted it where it is.

I ran 12/3 romex to the panel from the inverter temporarily but plan to run 10/3 as soon as I get some.  I also plan to install it in conduit all the way from panel to inverter so I can pull out the 10 awg wire in the future and pull in heavier wire for 50amp service if I want (incase I go to a bigger inverter).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0373.jpg&hash=29fae927cb5f5b66d3e5a04123806774)
It's nice to finally get rid of the drop lights and start using overhead lights :D  And while I'm not happy with CFL's as a whole, I do value their low wattage and am used to the light now....though I think the trace amounts of mercury in them will be a problem when several million of them pile up in the landfills....but I digress...my hope is that someday an inexpensive LED will come out to replace them.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0374.jpg&hash=b37c4ad05eec45b06978a645695de93a)
My step-son wired out 'his loft' and is very pleased :)  So am I!  It's his first wiring job and after having him get rid of shiners it tested out perfect.  He put the light switch near the edge of the loft so you could flick it on coming up the ladder and we'll put a light base in with a switch in it also -- to make it easy to turn off and on when in the loft.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 16, 2011, 08:00:54 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FShadeonpanel.jpg&hash=be27b694517c9d9c1974c2f6ce862c60)
Around 2PM until about 3:30pm this tree feels the need to remind me that it needs to be cut down, bucked up and milled into paneling :D

Heading up tomorrow with a snatch block :)  The snatch block will be attached to a logging chain which will be wrapped around a stump (after notching it to keep the chain from slipping off) and then a strong rope will be tied around the tree (doubled first) and run down to the snatch block, through the pulley and then to the winch on the Jeep which will sit 90 degrees from the desired location for dropping the tree shading the panels.

I've used this technique to fall trees close to the cabin.  The idea is simple:  you fall the tree the normal way but keep tension on the desired downward side of the fall so that when you've made the final cut the tree can't help but fall on the notched side.

I'll see if I can't remember to get some pics when I set the rigging.

Once down the tree will be bucked up into logs and rolled directly onto the mill.  We'll mill our 2x10's for the ships ladder and 2x8's for the rungs and then the rest of this tree (and 3 logs we have waiting) will be milled into 5/8th in stock for wall paneling.

We're hoping to have a productive 3 day weekend :)
Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on June 17, 2011, 08:24:31 AM
I've been thinking of felling a tree or two in my yard in this manner.  But Beautiful seem to think that I'll still squash the pump house, the chicken coop, or the house itself!

[rodney dangerfield]I tell ya, I don't get no respect d*[/rodney dangerfield] ... well, I do get a lot of respect, but I also give it - and while *I* think I could do it, it is a bit close and the margin for error is a bit to close.

I can't wait to see the ships ladder and paneling - looks like you're getting mighty close to a weekend where you won't have anything to do except BBQ, relax, and drink a few brews!   :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2011, 04:37:03 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Ftreesgone.jpg&hash=c4b9053d5f708c51c7c5edf7aa22510c)
The offending tree came down :)

I forgot to get pictures because once the operation was underway I just got to it -- sorry!  Basically I climbed the ladder (28 footer) about as high as I was comfortable doing with it against the tree and tied a good sturdy rope to the tree (doubled) -- a climbing rope that I use for these kids of things and probably shouldn't -- and then ran the doubled rope out to a stump about 50-60 feet from the tree.  There I notched the stump on the back side with my chainsaw and then wrapped the logging chain around it with a snatch block attached to that.  I ran the doubled rope through the snatch block and then at 90 degrees to the direction of fall to my winch on the jeep.

Using the winch we pulled the rope taught and then I cut the tree down.  It fell exactly where the rope told it too ;)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FReadytomill.jpg&hash=d0b2d08cd34b43426480a777a623608c)
Once bucked up we rolled the logs over to the mill so we could start Saturday without having to move them first.

Friday finished around dinner time and we had a nice relaxing evening :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 20, 2011, 04:42:30 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F8batteries.jpg&hash=ab3a7bf83a045063cb83c699bf28f210)
On Saturday morning we did a rush battery installed because I couldn't wait any longer to get these in, and then went back to the mill.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fpaneling.jpg&hash=043ae5d1207430b0f3659014c28815ab)
We managed to mill about 60 boards most of which were 5/8" thick and varying widths.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2F2x10s.jpg&hash=6d057995a387a359164c1902ec512486)
But we milled 8 2x10's (2 of which will be for the ships ladder) and a few 5/8" boards 10 feet long (works that way sometimes) which will be used for paneling.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fsawdust.jpg&hash=e55189b6973c6dd8cbc6fb8736bd7620)
We made tons of sawdust :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FFixingmill.jpg&hash=71df842c83ac82be4b0c7831e3dd6388)
and at one point a bolt fell out of the mill and Josh had to put it back...but it didn't take long.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 21, 2011, 04:57:22 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2Fth_MVI_0432.jpg&hash=3c828104c7f8e164bc6e08468e6f7a18) (http://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/?action=view&current=MVI_0432.mp4)
Josh running the sawmill.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 26, 2011, 05:51:51 PM
Things are getting exciting!  My wife and I picked up all the tile we need for the floor (a linoleum tile - the easy install type with the glue edges) and all the cabinets (decided to just buy them as I don't have much time to build them and we'll like to get them in soon) and the bathroom and kitchen sinks and faucets.

My wife is VERY excited to get up there and start working on the kitchen etc :)

Can't wait for the weekend now!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on June 27, 2011, 03:21:23 AM
I'm watching....want to see how your interior develops.  c*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on June 27, 2011, 04:15:29 AM
I'm watching....want to see how your interior develops.  c*

Me too! ;)  Since 'The Boss' is coming up this weekend it should begin to take shape :)  She's very 'Americana' and rustic so our little cabin will have LOTS of wood, undoubtedly some wrought iron, anything red and 'country', bronze (taps and such) and what not.  Our home is much that way.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 05, 2011, 04:54:17 AM
We arrived late Friday as I had to work part of the day and my wife and son were delayed in loading the trailer.  The trip up was long and tiring as the old Jeep has decided that after 250,000 miles it doesn't really like pulling a trailer anymore and we had to turn off the AC and roll the windows down to keep it from getting too hot.  All we pulled up was a pantry, some floor tile, tools and supplies.

So, next on the agenda is a 'Ranch Truck' to haul gear etc to the property without having to worry the old Jeep anymore.  Which we will keep for light use until either we replace more parts or it gives up the ghost (I think that means we'll have it for a few more years!).

After a little clean up and some late dinner we crashed for the night and got up early Saturday to get started on our weekend of cabin building :)  It has been two years since we bought the property and one month shy of two years since we began our construction and while sometimes it feels like a LONG time, at others not so much because, perhaps, we love what we are doing :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FJeeplogging.jpg&hash=5fa8efea943791f1f262c3ee0f8150bf)
The first thing we did was to cut down a big pine.  It was more then 20" at the bast of the tree and took my 20" Huskvarna saw a while to notch out just right.  Once dropped we bucked it up and hauled it to the mill for milling the next day.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FKitchen2.jpg&hash=1a2f68b9b374d29916a4c198ed3b815d)
We brought the new pantry in to give us more storage room while we wait for the drywall to be finished (then we'll bring the rest of the cupboards in) and installed the floor in the kitchen and bathroom.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FKitchen.jpg&hash=68cf692242d5e050b1b8e8b82065da09)
After the floor was installed we applied a coat of mud to the drywall (we're not drywallers but hey, it's a cabin!) which cleans up easily of the new floor :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FBath.jpg&hash=3c8ea80d5ccfa2659db723e94cf5f300)
The bathroom was a bit of a challenge as we had to install around the toilet but it worked out well enough.  We'll seal it around the toilet later.

Also, we installed the tile over 3/8" underlay so it will match the wood floor better once it goes in.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FCurtains.jpg&hash=74b3d987f2c1dc0947276065d6d19f92)
My wife was experimenting with curtains and wanted to make them herself so here is her first attempt.  They worked out nicely (made with a sheet of material to block out the sun) and kept the cabin cool but she's going to redesign them as she didn't like the look.  When done, the cabin will stay COOL all day in the summer :)  Just this set made a huge difference!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0512.jpg&hash=8d9b4291f87e3e5f564ae861f6417ae9)
We found this sink at Home Depot and it fits perfectly!  It's a small cabinet that will fit in a little nook behind the door.

We also wired out the bathroom so we had light etc in there -- something we did not have before.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0496.jpg&hash=54fd1fced2acd60c59d79c1ce96c2266)
With the interior work on the cabin done for this trip, we began milling lumber while my wife experimented with some Chestnut stain (which is what we will finish the exterior with once all the siding is completed).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0498.jpg&hash=30969741ef90f745e8da5f50ca76566c)
The base of the big pine on the mill.  We had to jack up one end to get the heart in the right place.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0499.jpg&hash=c3d0a5f546c72f5e619bf97c2d7e26af)
We milled 5/9x12 1/2 x 8' boards out of this log!  They were awesome!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0502.jpg&hash=37d7c14d845577c28d54df59524e27cf)
It was so amazing to mill such a big log on our little mill...and the lumber coming off of it is like artwork!

I cannot imagine doing anything else with trees we fall -- except the logs we use for the porch.  Too awesome.

We also used the jeep to haul a big log out of the 'bottoms'  where it had been resting.  The old Jeep just crawled down into the bottom corner of our property (to get there is about 1/2 mile around and across another piece) and then out with the log in tow.  It might not like towing a trailer anymore but in 4 low it pulls big pine logs out of the woods like a skidder :)

Next trip we will be working on exterior and if we're lucky the well for the orchard and greywater drain etc.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: John Raabe on July 05, 2011, 05:30:22 AM
Cool update on a great project. Coming along nicely! :D :D :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 05, 2011, 09:56:06 AM
Thanks John!

I can't believe it's been TWO YEARS already!  At least it's 2 yrs since we bought the property and 1 yr 11 months since we started the cabin.

Now I still have to finish the interior, finish the exterior, get the well water plumbed into the cabin, install the grey water drain system, build the wood shed, root cellar, outhouse, pump house etc, install the irrigation well and get the fruit trees in and so much more!

Heck, each trip I want to do more and more and more but I just never have the time.

Now we're looking at buying a truck (probably something within the last 2-5 years with under 50k miles on it) so we can haul more with less worry. 

So much to do, so little time!
Erik
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on July 05, 2011, 11:30:36 AM
Great progress!  It's looking like home inside the cabin  :)

We've been at it 9 yrs - have lots done but still have lots to do & are always thinking of new projects.  I try to tell my brain that this is a lifetime project, at least that's what Glenn keeps telling me, he always quotes "when a man finishes his house, he dies."  Good excuse, huh?   d*

Keep posting those pics  c*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 05, 2011, 12:28:54 PM
Well that makes me feel better with 6 years and counting. :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 05, 2011, 12:33:24 PM
haha well um, thanks I guess!  Though BOTH of you have homes much more complex and large then this but I'll still take it :)  After all, I DO have to drive 4 1/2 hours in a Jeep with no AC just to get to mine :P

But maybe not after we buy a truck!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on July 07, 2011, 10:04:10 AM
The trip up was long and tiring as the old Jeep has decided that after 250,000 miles it doesn't really like pulling a trailer anymore and we had to turn off the AC and roll the windows down to keep it from getting too hot. 

Cherokee's always run hot, the way they were designed.

Ditch the stock radiator for an all metal 3 row aftermarket type. There is also at least one company. Flowkooler is one. 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 07, 2011, 11:35:57 AM
Cherokee's always run hot, the way they were designed.

Ditch the stock radiator for an all metal 3 row aftermarket type. There is also at least one company. Flowkooler is one. 

Oh I know Don, but I replaced the radiator with a 3 core all steel one a year and a half ago along with all the rest of the cooling components.  Worked well until recently and now it's just not happy.  Pegged and lit up the dash on the way up a hill running in 3rd (auto) pulling a light load with AC on.  Had to kill the AC and run the entire trip without it but that still wasn't enough and at one point I had to kick on the heater too.  In 82 degree weather that's just not acceptable.

Truth is, it's pulled trailers just fine and with the top end rebuilt last year I figured I'd be good for a while now, but it appears something else is amiss so back to the drawing board.

But don't worry, I'm keeping it!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 08, 2011, 02:51:04 PM
http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/SCK240.html
Could this be our stove!?  I think so!

I've been reading reviews and small appliances aren't always high on the list, and sadly too many write reviews with too little time owning the product but all in all I do think this might be a good stove for our little cabin.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on July 08, 2011, 05:07:50 PM
Have you checked availability at the big blue and orange boxes? When we were looking a few years ago they both had 30", 24" and 20" wide gas ranges with lower costs and delivery free to the store if not carried in stock.

One thing to check is what the electronic ignition really means. If you will run the inverter every time you use the range top or oven that's not a concern. But if the inverter is usually off or has to be turned on each time that could get tiresome. The range burners can be lit manually if necessary. However, one of the units we considered had issues with the oven. If there was no power the oven would not work. I found that deep inside the owners manual.

We bought a pilot light model.

Downside of a pilot light unit is the slight extra gas use and the heat given off in warm/hot weather. In cool/cold weather it a good thing. I installed ours with a gas shut off right behind and slightly about the upper rear edge so we can kill the pilots if we so desire; a relight is simple with one of those butane fire sticks.

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 08, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
I found one or two at Lowes that I was considering but the reviews weren't very good so I began to look for something with some decent reviews and found this one.

The inverter runs all the time when we are there and will soon run all the time period as we will be installing a fridge next weekend.  I figure at least until winter we'll run the inverter 24x7 and even in the winter might if we want to run the heat tape to prevent freezing of the sewage pipe.

I also thought of setting a time to turn off the heat tape after 24hrs but am still in the 'considering' stage on that.

Our neighbor never shuts the inverter off, but then he lives there so I guess it's a little different.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 12, 2011, 08:42:43 AM
After a long and painful search I've finally settled on a 21" PVC pipe 11' feet long to build my irrigation well.  This, if cut to 5.5' and placed 5 feet in the ground side by side (and drilled full of holes) will give me a capacity of 140-180 gallons of water depending on the water level in the pipes.  The ground water in the area I'm placing the 'well' is often at the surface even at the driest part of the year so I'm confident I can get at least 4 feet of water in the well -- though until it actually is in and working I'll not really know.

I got the idea from a friend who's been doing remote watering wells for livestock and wild life.  Basically you get to a spot near a stream and dig a hole just far enough away from the stream channel that it won't disturb the stream itself but you'll get plenty of seepage into the well through the saturated ground near the stream.

Then you place a 75-100 watt solar panel above the well and a 12vdc well pump into the well and install and let it go.  The deeper wells (10+ feet) can be left to pump as long as the sun is out if that's what you want but since I KNOW I won't get more then 5 feet deep I'm doubling up the capacity and putting in a timer so the pump will only run 2 or 3 times a week (as needed) and for just long enough to deliver the water needed for my orchard and nut/hardwood trees.

This weekend we're heading up to get this done as well as get the grey water system installed, dig the privy hole and with luck and time, complete digging the root cellar.

The pipe I found for $240 which while sounding pricey turns out to be the best deal I could possibly find! 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on July 12, 2011, 11:35:44 PM
OJ, can't wait to see the pics and description of your water project. Good timing as far as $ on any solar additions for your pump also.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Squirl on July 13, 2011, 04:48:58 AM
Have you thought about a reverse drywell for you irrigation well?  Holes, groundwater, and septic have been on my mind a lot recently.  You can build one out of block and gravel. It may be a little more labor, but not much.  You might be able to save a few dollars.  There is a good diagram of how to build one here:
http://www.oneontablock.com/PDFS/drywell.pdf
or here:
http://www.pumpseptic.com/septic.htm

If it is near a water feature you could probably get good bank run gravel nearby or maybe sift it out of the excavated soil.  If you are only looking for around 200 gallons, you could probably get away with a 36" inside diameter, or a 7 block course. For a 5 feet tall area you would need around 7 courses or 49 blocks. When I last checked they were around $1.50 from the big box stores. So around $73.  You would have to deal with extra weight over PVC though. Just an idea.

Are you doing all this excavation by hand?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on July 13, 2011, 05:08:54 AM
"Could this be our stove!?"

I've only found 3 Mfg's that make freestanding "gas" ranges that do not have a glow bar in the oven.  The one you reference is Premier, the other two are Brown Stove works and Crosley.  I've been leaning toward Premier also, but have a real attraction to the SMK model, which has sealed burners on the stove top.  I'm very attracted to spending a little more up front and a lot less time cleaning under the top of an open burner stove.

http://www.ajmadison.com/b.php?Ntt=Premier+SMK240   

Seems its on sale at this source making it only $9 more than the open burner model for the moment.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 13, 2011, 05:23:05 AM
Have you thought about a reverse drywell for you irrigation well?  Holes, groundwater, and septic have been on my mind a lot recently.  You can build one out of block and gravel. It may be a little more labor, but not much.  You might be able to save a few dollars.  There is a good diagram of how to build one here:
http://www.oneontablock.com/PDFS/drywell.pdf
or here:
http://www.pumpseptic.com/septic.htm

If it is near a water feature you could probably get good bank run gravel nearby or maybe sift it out of the excavated soil.  If you are only looking for around 200 gallons, you could probably get away with a 36" inside diameter, or a 7 block course. For a 5 feet tall area you would need around 7 courses or 49 blocks. When I last checked they were around $1.50 from the big box stores. So around $73.  You would have to deal with extra weight over PVC though. Just an idea.

Are you doing all this excavation by hand?


This is very similar to what we are doing but I think using the pipe will be much easier (less time consuming).  We'll have a bobcat do the excavating (a friend of mine will run that) and the goal is to set the pipe 10 feet into the ground so that you can get it full to the waterline.  If however, as is often the case with our ground, you can't go down past 5 or 6 feet then the idea is to cut the pipe in half and drop the two halves in side by side.  Since the water line is essentially ground level where I plan to put the well, or at least there is water trickling at ground level when the stream gets low anyway, then I should be able to fill both pipes in the shallow design.

Our hope is to get the well dug, set and backfilled in a short period of time so we can move to the greywater drain and other projects :)  Then within the next few months to get the pump and solar so we can have it all ready to go by spring.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 13, 2011, 05:25:46 AM
"Could this be our stove!?"

I've only found 3 Mfg's that make freestanding "gas" ranges that do not have a glow bar in the oven.  The one you reference is Premier, the other two are Brown Stove works and Crosley.  I've been leaning toward Premier also, but have a real attraction to the SMK model, which has sealed burners on the stove top.  I'm very attracted to spending a little more up front and a lot less time cleaning under the top of an open burner stove.

http://www.ajmadison.com/b.php?Ntt=Premier+SMK240   

Seems its on sale at this source making it only $9 more than the open burner model for the moment.

I don't think I saw any sealed burners in the Premier 24" but I could be wrong.  We mostly were looking for highly rated stoves, ready for LP and at a reasonable price.  As it is we went from thinking we'd spend $350 (from last years prices) to over $500!  We bought from AJ Madison also.

Anyway, I kinda wish I'd paid closer attention and found the model you showed in 24" but wasn't thinking.  Oh well, we'll live with it :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Turkeyhunter on July 13, 2011, 06:16:22 AM
nice cabin build and like the potable sawmill, had a guy cut me a few 4" x 6" out of red cedar on one a couple weeks ago they work great.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on July 13, 2011, 08:41:28 AM
any functioning stove is a good stove 'specially when it has an oven!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 14, 2011, 08:05:35 PM
any functioning stove is a good stove 'specially when it has an oven!

Amen!  I can't wait for the time we're at the cabin and can enjoy fresh baked biscuits with breakfast or fresh bread with dinner!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 15, 2011, 05:06:21 AM
Have pipe, will travel :)

I'm getting pretty stoked!  The pipe, which weighs about 500lbs! Is loaded on the trailer and ready for transport and my buddy will be over in a few hours to head to the property for a long weekend (took some PTO for this weekend) of digging :)

With luck we'll come away with a new well, grey water drain system, privy hole and root cellar hole :)  Maybe even a shooting range and some yard work :)

Also plan to work on some drywall and get some clean up done.

It's amazing how excited I can get before a trip to the woods!
Seeya!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on July 15, 2011, 10:18:26 AM
You are very ambitious!   c*
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on July 18, 2011, 04:13:22 AM
We're very happy with ours.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fyonderosabreakfast.jpg&hash=66e073833df2438e988f13ecd81f4a97)

Sometimes we'll pick up a u-bake pizza in town on the way up.  The next size down from the biggest fits just fine.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fitchen2.jpg&hash=b46000ceefa92a274dbeff12f35d4124)
I don't have a good picture of it or remember the model number.  I purchased it through Sears and picked it up in Omak.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 18, 2011, 04:13:39 PM
Just got back in and so much to tell!  We dug the well, just not the way we planned, we burried the old root cellar site and dug a new one, we dug tree holes, outhouse hole and so much more.

Also found our pump is the pump I was going to buy but really need to run at 24vdc not 12vdc in order to get it pumping.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 19, 2011, 05:35:51 AM
What a great and productive weekend!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FBlownTrack.jpg&hash=f8f53bba0adc881d649dbda93c7f33cc)
We got the excavator to the property Friday night and started after breakfast on Saturday.  However, as soon as we managed to get back to the area we wanted to dig the well we blew a track.  After borrowing grease and a gun from the neighbor up the hill we got the track back on and got to work.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWell.jpg&hash=01bca0eb1b0d3150e76a977ec20e25a7)
Digging the well we hit water within 18" of the surface!  Was very promising.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2Fswiming.jpg&hash=cc34caae797049c4fd3f0ba7ed8cf88b)
My son in 2 feet of ice cold water arranging the pipes we hope to be able to pump water out of later.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FBackfilling.jpg&hash=c4ce639936f3f85e233adec7d01eab58)
It looks a mess but we'll get it cleaned up in time (grass will have to be planted to hold things together at first I think).  At the time the picture was taken the well was holding about 100 gallons of water.

it's not pretty (yet) but it's working.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 19, 2011, 05:37:50 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FSupervisor.jpg&hash=df6006f1b0c4d0b486827304a5faa889)
Josh watching Tom dig the grey water drain system in.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FGreywaterDrain.jpg&hash=89397e058377e436605b7aac4c2d1eb7)
Checking out the settling tank in the trench.  Once we have all the parts we can install the sink drains (2) and shower drain (1) into this tank and then from its filter to the dry sump.  I'll take pictures of the install when we get to it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FViewtoRoot.jpg&hash=1658a0c142140f6ab5fa936b88b0fd76)
Looking from the cabin back up the drive to the location of our future root cellar.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FRootcellar.jpg&hash=80fe81fd8969a9f89485993ccafaa3bf)
Ten feet deep!  That's an accomplishment in our soil!  Now to plan the structure and frame it up! :D  Be a while mind you.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FRootCellar2.jpg&hash=b801639a793d977bde94edccb2fa094d)
Looking out from the 'root cellar' you get the feel for just how deep it really is.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 19, 2011, 05:39:04 AM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FRedOak.jpg&hash=d945756503aeba9c26c285f16d42bd2f)
One of the 5 surviving Red Oaks.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FRedOak2-1.jpg&hash=f3c56c35080d5a3813ae86fb6af622a6)
These poor guys are getting only rainwater but I hope to water them with buckets from the well at least every two weeks in August.  It's no where near enough water but it's the best we could do at this point.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWildCurrentBerries.jpg&hash=7cc96b5137c0323380ad27988d7b4094)
I'm told these are Current's.  No flavor really but apparently some people make jams with them.  I'm not too  sure myself and am still researching.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FChokeBerries.jpg&hash=4055009bc0be955c73d4f767be57349e)
These appear to be Choke berries (or is it chokeberry's?).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWildStrawberries.jpg&hash=1d2defa267d85373fc5e6fff674149fb)
Wild Strawberries are EVERYWHERE on our land!  Makes one wonder if regular ones would take over?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on July 19, 2011, 10:02:49 AM
Are those wild strawberries? (in that last picture?)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 19, 2011, 11:27:28 AM
Are those wild strawberries? (in that last picture?)

Yup!  I haven't eaten any yet but plan to try them when I remember and if any are left -- we have TON's of them.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 20, 2011, 07:08:15 AM
I hope to get back to the cabin this weekend to finish some drywall work we did this last trip.  Then if that gets done quickly enough (sanding and priming the kitchen) then we can do some cleanup (long needed) and perhaps fall a few trees that are dead and need to be cut into firewood and stacked for the winter.

I've been researching the well pump we have and discovered that it was the very same pump I wanted to get!  Seems it's a 24vdc pump that can pump 100 gallons an hour if the flow rate of the well will handle it (and it is supposed to handle 3 hours at 2.5gpm).

Anyway, if I can get a new set of batteries for the well (one of ours died) and a panel for them then I'll be set and  can fill the cistern!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on July 20, 2011, 07:14:27 AM
The plant in the picture above the strawberry is Buffalo berry
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 20, 2011, 07:48:18 PM
The plant in the picture above the strawberry is Buffalo berry

What kind of berry is that?  It looked like pictures of Choke Berries but I didn't know.  Is it edible?  Taste?  Good for?

Thank!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 20, 2011, 07:49:02 PM
We have a stove! :D  Can't wait to install it!

Heck, I can't wait for the morning in the fall when I make biscuits to go with breakfast!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 20, 2011, 07:50:30 PM
The plant in the picture above the strawberry is Buffalo berry
http://www.sd4history.com/Unit2/buffalo_berry.htm
Is there different kinds?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Yonderosa on July 21, 2011, 04:13:32 AM
In our area Shepherdia canadensis is quite common.  I've seen critters eat the berries and once ripe they don't seem to last long.  I have not found them to be palatable. My understanding is that when they were used by Native Americans they were typically mixed with other berries.

The other looks to be Wax Currant, Ribes cereum (Maple Leaf currant is also common in our area).  It was used medicinally by the local tribes.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 21, 2011, 05:11:00 AM
In our area Shepherdia canadensis is quite common.  I've seen critters eat the berries and once ripe they don't seem to last long.  I have not found them to be palatable. My understanding is that when they were used by Native Americans they were typically mixed with other berries.

The other looks to be Wax Currant, Ribes cereum (Maple Leaf currant is also common in our area).  It was used medicinally by the local tribes.

Cool thanks!  I found this link:http://montana.plant-life.org/species/ribes_cere.htm and one on the http://www.gardenology.org/wiki/Shepherdia_canadensis (actually plenty) so while not strawberries they are edible.  Just not something to write home about it seems.

I'll have to look for others as the place is overgrown with them!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on July 21, 2011, 06:07:52 AM
Cool thanks!  I found this link:http://montana.plant-life.org/species/ribes_cere.htm and one on the http://www.gardenology.org/wiki/Shepherdia_canadensis (actually plenty) so while not strawberries they are edible.  Just not something to write home about it seems.

I'll have to look for others as the place is overgrown with them!

It would seem that there are two differing opinions on the flavor of the buffalo berries ... on one site linked from one of the other posts above, the quote is that it is sweet and makes excellent tarts - and on the link at gardenology, it says they are bitter ...

I guess there truly is no accounting for taste  ???

But I bet the wild strawberries are excellent - we have some strawberries at home, and I have to keep the slugs off them! (which reminds me, I need to get more slug bait - or beer)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Toyotaboy on July 21, 2011, 06:49:54 AM
Back here in Wisconsin, we had current bushes in our back yard growing up. My mom use to make some awesome current jelly. I don't know if yours are the same variety. Great, now I'm craving a jelly sandwich!

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on July 21, 2011, 02:35:14 PM
Those wild strawberries - if you can collect the plants and get them in good soil (planter box) and water them they will produce more abundantly...and taste miles better than even local U picks. Yum!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 22, 2011, 07:49:26 AM
Those wild strawberries - if you can collect the plants and get them in good soil (planter box) and water them they will produce more abundantly...and taste miles better than even local U picks. Yum!

When would it be best to pick the plants?  I can put them in pots and transplant to my house anytime but wonder if there is a better time to do it.

I plan to taste test this weekend too :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2011, 04:28:27 AM
Pictures will be forthcoming :)

My eyes are burnt, so's my neck, I'm sore and hungry but what a great trip!  We hit the ground running on a two day sprint and finished somewhere near the top :D  OK, maybe not but sometimes it feels that way and this trip we really got busy and knocked out a few things.  I'll report as soon as I can get some coffee in me!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2011, 05:14:51 AM
Got in late Friday and settled for the night.  It was great to arrive, put stuff in the fridge and kick back :)  The cabin is getting downright civilized now :)

The truck was awesome too!  Got 17mpg with the back loaded up and driving, well, somewhat spirited on the way up.

Next morning I got out the Ryobi pole saw my wife and I bought at HD.  I like Ryobi tools and decided the 3yr warranty might be nice -- my wife snuck in the 2 yr extension on me when I was away from the counter looking for something but afterward I thought "their loss" because that thing is going to be killed trimming trees on 20 acres!  

While I ran the saw and cut limbs off every tree within 100 feet of the cabin (darn near) my son hit the drywall and got it nicely sanded and primered.  We finally had a wall that looked somewhat finished :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FKitchen2-1.jpg&hash=2735a730f72e1d057679853829ee9fe1)
We dragged the stove out of the truck and set it up only to find it didn't have the right fittings, and I dug a hole and we concreted in the pole for the solar panels.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0660.jpg&hash=8ebee856c2ee767d21caa9952ca02de3)
By Sunday we were rocking and I'd also cut down one tree (an ugly little one that caused me to want to cut it down and buck it up) and generally worked out buts off :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FFrankenstien.jpg&hash=3dfa3b4bedd2dcd8a91ea662d85fd314)
I wired up Frankenstein and thanks to a call to my wife (from a hill top) I was able to get the wiring sorted (I'd left something at home - DOH!) and the little Dietz timer kicks the relay as programmed, which sends power to the pump for a specified duration.  I also rewired the solar panels to 24vdc (open was 44vdc) and that was a chore!  The stupid manufacturer wired connectors differently at different locations -- note to self, never buy another 60 watt Costco setup!

With the batteries being charged at 24vdc and the relay working with the timer to turn the pump on and off automatically, I'll be able to pump the cistern full (assuming nothing is wrong) while we're away :D

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FFrankenstien2.jpg&hash=337346d19cc0392b18efe294e85551e0)
A closer look at the monster -- I'll probably explain it in the off grid section.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FTheTaj.jpg&hash=6ae0336a23b1700851ed8833728482d9)
My son and I grabbed the worst looking wood of the piles and framed up a pump house to house the charge controller, batteries, timer and relay for the pump.  It wasn't the Taj Mahal, but it ought to work :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FWellSolar.jpg&hash=96f645ed87e91c7700f34e434a9d40bf)
With little time to spare we got the solar rack primered and painted and mounted and put the panels on, hung the wiring, put some stakes to help protect it and drove off in hopes the cows don't decide to destroy it before we can make it more permanent (more on that later).

All in all a productive two days!  Got home at 10pm last night exhausted but happy to be home :)  Only to find that my Mom was in the hospital :(  She's ok now though.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Tickhill on July 25, 2011, 07:38:14 AM
OJ I always look on Monday for your weekend updates! Thanks for your diligence in reporting. Tickhill
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2011, 12:01:23 PM
OJ I always look on Monday for your weekend updates! Thanks for your diligence in reporting. Tickhill

Thanks Tic :)  It's become habit really and I often wonder if anyone follows it much! haha but then I remember Don saying something similar to which I though "well Duh Don!  I always follow what you're up to!  Where do you think I get ideas from?" lol
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2011, 12:31:47 PM
Looks like a pump rebuild is likely in the works for me next trip to the cabin. 

You see since we bought the place we've had an issue pumping enough water into the cistern to do much.  It's not been a major issue and I assumed it was a bad pump or a pump too high in the well but I've learned, having spoken with the 'Backwoods Solar' guys (very helpful) that it's common on these after 8-10 years to wear out valves which can both limit their ability to pump water but also allow the water to run back down the line into the well.

Two cures are:

1.  Rebuild pump ($100 if you buy new lower housing, diaphragm, bearing and valves or just $30 for the valves)
2.  Put in a check valve on the main line going to the cistern so the water can't drain back down into the well when you pull the pump or something goes wrong with the pump.

I'll do both! 

I've also learned thanks to http://backwoodssolar.com/ that the Surflow 9300 pump can pump more then 1GPM depending on pressure (how much lift).  With only about 80 feet of lift (100 max I think) it should pump more then 82gph (it's rated at 82gph @230' of rise).  That's encouraging as it should allow fairly steady pumping for extended periods to fill and keep full, the cistern.

Might not be some Grundfos super pump but with a 60watt solar setup and 2 deep cycle RV batteries I'm thinking I can make do if I rebuild the pump :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Turkeyhunter on July 25, 2011, 12:43:58 PM
looks like a great work weekend.........
ya'll lots of work got done for sure........
glad your Mother's Ok.....
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on July 27, 2011, 05:14:45 AM
Thanks Turkey.  We had a very productive weekend and next trip I will rebuild the well pump in hopes of solving the pumping problem we're having.

Once the exterior is completed on the cabin I think I'll have to relax a bit.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: considerations on July 27, 2011, 05:21:38 PM
"When would it be best to pick the plants?"

September
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on July 27, 2011, 06:44:09 PM
Feels good to make good progress, doesn't it?  Looking good.  We've had to replace 1 pressure tank & a pump on our well up here for the rental house & a pressure tank for the well in our valley house this year.  Those tanks weren't even 10 yrs old  >:(  Not sure how old the pump was... 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 03, 2011, 06:32:10 PM
You bet Sassy!

Well I went off to Home Depot with my wife to try to find the parts needed to hook the sink drain to the grey water system...to no avail.  I need a 1 1/2 Y pipe or two and couldn't find any...hmmmm

So I went over to the BBQ section to find an ACME nut for a 5 gallon LP tank and a 1/4 pipe thread to 9/16 non pipe thread (whatever the heck it's called) adapter and could not find either...nor could I at the brass fitting section....nice...so now back to the drawing board.

I have everything EXCEPT a way to hook up my 5 gallon LP tanks and there isn't propane in the 20 gallon tanks....so either I get them filled or I find a way to make the 5 gallon tank work.

What's more, I have to decide how to get through the wall?   ???  Either I run the hose through the wall (don't want to do that really) or I get a pipe bender and flare kit and flare fittings etc and run the copper pipe through the wall to the stove and connect it to the hose outside.

Suggestions?

This weekends trip will be busy but we are excited to get back and rebuild the pump and get the kitchen installed :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 04, 2011, 07:07:32 AM
Looks like I need to install some black pipe through the wall of the cabin with a connection to a flex hose for LP gas that will go to the stove and on the outside a connection to copper pipe which will go to a regulator and then to the tank -- seems you also need a regulator as the one on the stove is apparently not for the same thing but rather fine tuning -- so say the Propane experts I called.

More involved then I thought (of course) but will be right when I'm done so I can't complain I guess -- also learned there is pipe dope for gas/lp vs that which we all use for plumbing (Teflon tape) so I'll have to look at getting some.

We plan on leaving early tomorrow so I may have to find a way to get to a supply place today...even though I'm 1/2hr from home!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on August 04, 2011, 07:31:18 AM
I was meaning to reply but have been a little busy.  I was going to suggest black iron 1/2" with a flex hose connector on the inside. You might pu a ball valve for gas as it will make it handier than having to go to the outside to turn it off at the tank not to mention that you can disconnect the appliance without loosing gas pressure and having to bleed.  They do make teflon for gas it is yellow whereas water is white.  But I used dope too meant for gas/oil. Most hardware will have the copper tubing and some (here) they will flare it for you.  Just make sure that you slip the female end over the tubing in opposite directions before you flare  d*.   
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: pmichelsen on August 04, 2011, 08:09:59 AM
Around here we use RetorSeal for gas, and we call it baby poop, kind of a yellow consistency. As mentioned above the white would be used for potable water.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 04, 2011, 11:58:57 AM
Thanks Guys.

I went out to KIS (Kennewick Industrial Supply) and bought a 12" piece of black iron pipe (1/2"x12" nipple), two 90's, a 5" nipple (to go inside the stove to the regulator so I don't have to bend the flex too much), 24" SS Flex pipe/hose, ball valve and dope for gas:)

Then I stopped by HD and picked up a 1/2" MIP to 3/8" MIP adapter to go to the LP tank hose and a 1/2" to 1/2" FIP to FIP adapter as well as a couple small nipples to connect 90's and valves to the pipe.

The plan is to run the 1/2"x5" nipple from the stove regulator to a 90 degree elbow and then connect the flex hose at the elbow.  The flex then goes down to the ball valve which is connected to a 90 on the 1/2"x12" BI pipe going through the wall.

On the outside I plan to use the 1/2" MIP to 3/8" flare adapter to connect the LP tank hose (with regulator -- more on that in a sec) which of course, then connects to a 5 gallon tank.

On the Peerless Premier stove there is a regulator but the Propane Gas guys locally tell me it is for fine tuning the pressure for the stove and not meant to regulate pressure coming from a tank and that I should use one at the tank also.  This doesn't matter on the 5 gallon tanks because I have hoses with ACME nuts on them but for the 20 gallon tanks I'll need to change something.  As it is I have a hose with a 9/16" type fitting that I have not been able to find an adapter for yet, and a LP tank connector for the bigger tanks but no regulator.  So I'll have to sort that out too.

While at KIS I asked about my greywater drain system and how to connect it to the sink drains etc -- because I wasn't sure really -- and they helped me out there too :)  I was able to pick up an adapter to go from the 4" pipe into the grey water settling tank to 2" pipe going to the cabin, then a 3 into 1 Y piece to connect the two sinks and bath to the drain :)

Now I just need to grab some sch35 pipe (6') and some sch40 2" and 1 1/2" pipe and I will be able to start using the grey water drain system!!! 

Yes, I'm Uber excited about this trip :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 08, 2011, 08:30:21 AM
Another great weekend :)

We arrived Friday around 3PM and unloaded the truck for the weekend.  Our plans were to get the stove installed and working and then get the kitchen walls textured and primered.  We set right to it!

First we installed the kitchen stove with the black iron pipe going through the wall and all the correct fittings to hook it up to a 5 gallon tank (the 100 gallon tanks will be installed once filled).  After a minor hickup (forgot to tighten one SS flex hose fitting correctly) we had the stove piping 'soapy water' tested and with no leaks detected fired up the stove.  IT WORKS! :D  Yes, we can cook with a little more normalcy now and after two years that's kinda cool :)

Except that we could not get the oven to work still - seems maybe an electrical issue that we haven't found yet - and we need to tweak some of the burners a little more to get the mixture right.  However, for the most part we're pretty stinking happy :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FDarci_texturing2.jpg&hash=2b9cd3f74a6ac16dd9c12c7404a91604)
Next was to move everything and get to texturing :)  My wife loves to do that and to paint so we pretty much left her to it and assisted by shaking cans and staying out of the way :)

Saturday morning we got up early and after breakfast checked the well water level -- it was 27 feet from the top of the well to the water line!!!!! WOW!  Having the well report, which states the water level rose to 40 feet, and considering all the issues we've had with keeping water in the cistern this was encouraging.

So, with the pump down 86 feet from the top of the casing and the water down just 27 feet and knowing that we've pumped at least 45 gallons per day for ten days one should assume we'd have 450 gallons of water in the cistern right?  Wrong!  Maybe 2-3 if we were lucky :(  Something aint right.

So we pulled up the pump and rebuilt it -- and it didn't work.  d*  We tore it down again and discovered we had squished a valve, replaced it and stripped some threads in the upper housing (just too brittle it seems) and broke the electrical connector outer casing too -- just a little but clearly the plastic is deteriorating.

However, the pump worked and we were pumping water again.

200 gallons pumped and no water in the cistern worth mentioning :(  I think we have a problem that may not be the pump but I'm guessing the pump needs replacing too.  So the next step is to put in a check valve in the piping to the cistern to make sure it isn't draining back into the well (which might be why the water level was so high) and test that.

One a good note, however, we discovered as long as we were pumping water we could get lots from the cistern -- just give it 10 minutes to get ahead of you and then get all the water you want -- so there is that.  [cool]

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0693.jpg&hash=6a2371e0584bf4e7ff4321ea3b18e84a)
While playing with the plump my wife was painting :)  so when we were done it was time to get busy with the cabinets -- after the paint was dry anyway.  My buddy John smiling away there -- he enjoyed helping put up the cabinets.  He's a sysadmin and this sort of thing always seems to entertain him!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0705.jpg&hash=3e34d7e162c563447648fe76e9a2ee3f)
So we set about getting dinner cooked and installing the kitchen cabinets -- the paint was a little soft still, but we had no time to waste.
For dinner we cooked two chickens in the Dutch oven (in about 1 1'2 inches of water) and let me tell you, if you have not tried this you should  :)  Best chicken ever!
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0702.jpg&hash=d741b114691caf3b6f37e76a81b4b9db)
We also tossed in home grown turnips, potatoes, scallions and parsley just for fun -- was very tasty :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0696.jpg&hash=d9c5b5a53261dd1f803ce5d996dddfeb)
Dinner cooked, we worked -- life was good :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0698.jpg&hash=387be178aedcbfe0a1cf095035ed507f)
The cabinets are from Home Depot.  We just decided it was the fasted way to get cabinets and my wife and I liked the natural look to them.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0700.jpg&hash=fad8c753dd4aaffe34c253d56e9dd94a)
With such a small space we think these will make a significant improvement to overall feel.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0707.jpg&hash=63ed8b2cd63dc7504da50e96622a716b)
With the first part of the counter going in my wife just couldn't resist cleaning it :)  She's in love with the 'feel' of 'her' little kitchen in the woods....I think she is planning on coming out more now ;)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMG_0719.jpg&hash=abe57cd2012e5cafd8f02cd33f92f722)
Sunday morning we'd completed as much as we could with sink cut in, counters cut and test fitted, cupboards installed (but in need of some more screws here and there and the handles finished) but all in all we had a great weekend and can't wait to get back and continue.

Oh and my wife has decided she will be going out once a month now :)

Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on August 08, 2011, 08:49:55 AM
Very nice little kitchen there!  Looks like the place is shaping up quite nicely!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 08, 2011, 09:37:45 AM
Very nice little kitchen there!  Looks like the place is shaping up quite nicely!

Thanks :)

Also forgot to mention that my wife brought up more curtains she'd been working on and the place is staying very cool throughout most of the day.  We arrived around 3pm and it was over 80 out but the cabin was still only about 70 inside :D

I never saw it go above 78 when it was mid to high 80's outside and my wife loved it!  Truth is, I didn't mind at all either ;)  I hate the heat and can see that once the work is done the cabin will stay cool in the summer and warm in the winter :)  I love it!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on August 08, 2011, 09:57:08 AM
I certainly hope I can get Beautiful up to my/our place once the building is complete.  She's not a "High Desert" kind of gal, even tho it's not really high desert - I think it's just that she doesn't like the heat.  And I can't blame her for that - I don't like it either!

I've even got a window that I can hang an AC unit in, if I have to, but I'm hoping that simply enough shade will help out tremendously.

Then, I've got to put in a well... I have a plan for a pool up there, but I need the water!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: mogie01 on August 08, 2011, 11:11:57 AM
Your place is looking great. :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 08, 2011, 11:23:42 AM
I certainly hope I can get Beautiful up to my/our place once the building is complete.  She's not a "High Desert" kind of gal, even tho it's not really high desert - I think it's just that she doesn't like the heat.  And I can't blame her for that - I don't like it either!

I've even got a window that I can hang an AC unit in, if I have to, but I'm hoping that simply enough shade will help out tremendously.

Then, I've got to put in a well... I have a plan for a pool up there, but I need the water!

Heat?  What heat?  You saw the whole "no higher then 78" right?  Usually it's in the 60's -- 60 in the AM when we get up to have coffee and 68-70 when we go to bed.  I think it might even drop into the 50's in the dead of night but I don't think so.

Bear in mind this is without all the insulation and the roof isn't insulated except the top 18".  Once done I expect we'll keep a cool 65 degrees inside the cabin most days July and August...the rest of the year we will likely need to heat it up in the AM when having coffee :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Sassy on August 08, 2011, 11:49:28 AM
Very nice kitchen! 
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 08, 2011, 11:54:13 AM
Very nice kitchen! 

Thanks Sassy :)  My wife pretty much decides on decorating, design and style and I just do the work ;)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on August 08, 2011, 12:58:40 PM
Heat?  What heat?  You saw the whole "no higher then 78" right?  Usually it's in the 60's -- 60 in the AM when we get up to have coffee and 68-70 when we go to bed.  I think it might even drop into the 50's in the dead of night but I don't think so.

Bear in mind this is without all the insulation and the roof isn't insulated except the top 18".  Once done I expect we'll keep a cool 65 degrees inside the cabin most days July and August...the rest of the year we will likely need to heat it up in the AM when having coffee :)

Yeah, that's this year... or maybe it's because my place is further south and west of yours...  rofl  But the year she went up with me, the second time we went, the temp in Omak hit 100+  [shocked] ... and it was still about 85/90 up on the mountain.  The Nights were nice, tho - into the low 60's. But I don't think she's managed to get over that one, very hot, week.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 08, 2011, 01:10:36 PM
Yeah, that's this year... or maybe it's because my place is further south and west of yours...  rofl  But the year she went up with me, the second time we went, the temp in Omak hit 100+  [shocked] ... and it was still about 85/90 up on the mountain.  The Nights were nice, tho - into the low 60's. But I don't think she's managed to get over that one, very hot, week.

For us each year has gotten cooler but I understand.  Funny thing though, we haven't seen triple digits yet this year that I know of, that THAT is amazing since we had 9 in a row ten years ago!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 08, 2011, 01:38:58 PM
Did a little reading on my well problem and it seems the issue may well be the Frost Free.  It seems these were not designed to be used the way I have been using mine and it's possible there is damage to the valve.  I can test apparently by putting my thumb over the spigot hole and seeing if there is a vacuum suction when i shut it off.  If not then the valve is damaged.

If the valve is not working properly it would allow the cistern to drain into the french drain below the spigot -- though I would think I'd see some signs of this??

Anyway, that's one thing I'll check, the other is to install a check valve at the head off the pipe leading to the cistern and finally to check the cistern itself to see if it might have any cracks, holes or other possible issues....sooner or later though, I'll figure it out.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Redoverfarm on August 08, 2011, 02:03:48 PM
OJ noticed the range.  It looks as if there is a clock/timer on the face.   If so there might be an electronic ignition to the oven.  My range which was I ordered and is in but since there is no HD locally I will have to have someone pick it up for me.  It is the 30" with pilot oven and no electric.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 08, 2011, 02:55:13 PM
OJ noticed the range.  It looks as if there is a clock/timer on the face.   If so there might be an electronic ignition to the oven.  My range which was I ordered and is in but since there is no HD locally I will have to have someone pick it up for me.  It is the 30" with pilot oven and no electric.

It's electronic ignition all around -- the top works great but the light and electric ignition in the oven doesn't work...I haven't had a chance to test any leads yet though.  I'm sure it's just a loose connector somewhere.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on August 09, 2011, 06:15:43 AM
For us each year has gotten cooler but I understand.  Funny thing though, we haven't seen triple digits yet this year that I know of, that THAT is amazing since we had 9 in a row ten years ago!

Well, I know that the last few years, since that summer (2008, I think) have all been cooler.  And I am sure that it's been cooler up at my place this year, too (I've been watching the weather data at Loup Loup pass which is about 10 miles or less from the place) i just haven't had a chance to get there yet.  Hopefully later this month or early Sept.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 10, 2011, 12:56:58 PM
Well, I know that the last few years, since that summer (2008, I think) have all been cooler.  And I am sure that it's been cooler up at my place this year, too (I've been watching the weather data at Loup Loup pass which is about 10 miles or less from the place) i just haven't had a chance to get there yet.  Hopefully later this month or early Sept.

Well I hope you make it up there soon!

I hope to be there next weekend (not this coming but the one after) or the one after that.  I only go up, typically, twice a month but might have some maintenance going on next weekend so won't be able to head up...

I'm also thinking 4 days this next trip so I can get some serious work done!  Been slacking TOO much lately.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Barry Broome on August 10, 2011, 03:25:42 PM
Is that a propane refrigerator in the kitchen?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 10, 2011, 03:30:58 PM
Is that a propane refrigerator in the kitchen?


Nope.  It's an electric with no freezer.  Uses about 500 watt hours per day give or take, so it runs fine on our solar power.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: Squirl on August 11, 2011, 11:46:03 AM
Nice job.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on August 12, 2011, 06:10:00 AM
Well I hope you make it up there soon!

I hope to be there next weekend (not this coming but the one after) or the one after that.  I only go up, typically, twice a month but might have some maintenance going on next weekend so won't be able to head up...

I'm also thinking 4 days this next trip so I can get some serious work done!  Been slacking TOO much lately.
Slacking? I've never seen you slacking in any of the posts!  you're a machine!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 12, 2011, 07:49:03 AM
Slacking? I've never seen you slacking in any of the posts!  you're a machine!

LOL ya, I have been slacking...heck I have the roof to complete still, the exterior walls to complete and stain, the .....you see there is so much to do that if I sit down and relax for more then 5 minutes at the cabin then I'm slacking!

Seriously though, I'm ready for the trip that has no agenda, no plans, no reason for being other then for being there...then I'll have to kick back for at least 10 minutes! ;)

It's probably the ACT though -- Advanced Cellular Technology -- a natural energy drink that I drink twice daily and my Doctor tells me "What the heck are you doing!  Your numbers keep improving and you just keep on getting better!" to which I reply "Drinking Energy Drinks Doc" and he laughs, "ya that supplement ACT right?"

Seriously, the stuff is amazing and it is the reason I am always trying to do something.  It doesn't give me a buzz or anything, just makes me WANT to get up and do something...hence the not sitting around doing nothing ;)

Cabin building powered by ACT :D
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 13, 2011, 12:48:14 PM
Just got in from Spokane with our new tub :)  An 89 year old Claw Foot tub, 5 feet long that was made on July 25th 1922!  Actually welded into the bottom of the tub.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMAG0311.jpg&hash=6345b4e6e44f6b9a46b4c792b56eab24)
Virtually no rust (probably a little around the drain I'm guessing but no where else.  All the feet appear to be 100% with a little rust to clean off and condition before painting.  Only one small chip in the porcelain and a little rub spot where the chain used to hang with the stopper.  Otherwise this tub is in excellent shape!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin%2FIMAG0315.jpg&hash=a4187621982778c056e5cfcaef27bdae)
Even the show rod setup appears to be in excellent shape which no rust or damage.  Simply awesome.

What's more is that it was installed and in use and demonstrated (get your mind out of the gutter you! d* ) before being removed before I bought it and brought it home. [cool]

So with a little cleaning and sanding we can repaint the base and feet and have it ready to install.  Also it came with a dozen or so seals for the taps which the owner tells me they replaced once a year but get from Lowes, and the hoses which have an oddball larger connection to the taps.  It's ready to install and use but we'll clean it up some and give it a paint job while waiting on the bathroom walls to be finished first.

Heavy sucker too!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: dug on August 13, 2011, 02:48:45 PM
Nice find Jarhead, looks great!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 13, 2011, 04:01:09 PM
Nice find Jarhead, looks great!

Thanks Dug :)  We're pretty stoked!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 15, 2011, 08:01:06 AM
Pretty much losing it...I'm in the 'it's been a whole week!' stage that I go through everytime I'm not at the cabin....so I'm planning the next trip ( for next weekend) which will be a 4 day trip to give me a little more time to work on the cabin.

Can't wait!
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: timkel on August 17, 2011, 06:41:05 AM
How did you insulate the floor of your cabin? What type and what R factor? How did you secure it in place? How do you keep animals from pulling it out?
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2011, 06:11:15 PM
How did you insulate the floor of your cabin? What type and what R factor? How did you secure it in place? How do you keep animals from pulling it out?

I insulated the floor before putting the lid on so the batting (R19) would hold while waiting for treatment below.

I've not had a chance yet (sadly) to get the underneath done but I've been considering the possibility of just putting 1" foam under it and holding it up with chicken wire.

So far the critters haven't been too bad with removing the insulation and it's been plenty of floor insulation as we were warm in the winter without much wall or roof insulation despite VERY cold temps.

At this point my plan is to secure the floor insulation with either foam or something else that will deter animals and then enclose the outer wall of the 'crawl space' and insulate that with 1 1/4 or thicker foam board insulation.  I'm hoping that by doing that and insulating all pipes and putting heat trace on them for extreme cold protection that I'll be able to use the drains and toilet in -30 degree weather without issue :)  We've been ok down to -10 so far and that's without anything else :)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 17, 2011, 06:30:39 PM
Note there are wire "stays" cut from spring steel wire, available is sizes to to be used with 16 and 24 inch OC joists. These are used to hold the insulation up in place.

Back home I've seen deer mice chew through foam as if it was cheese, not sure I'd recommend that. Three-eighths plywood will keep most curious rodents out. Ours has been left alone for a couple winters now. If they are determined they will chew through that.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2011, 07:16:14 PM
Note there are wire "stays" cut from spring steel wire, available is sizes to to be used with 16 and 24 inch OC joists. These are used to hold the insulation up in place.

Back home I've seen deer mice chew through foam as if it was cheese, not sure I'd recommend that. Three-eighths plywood will keep most curious rodents out. Ours has been left alone for a couple winters now. If they are determined they will chew through that.

I thought about doing that too...figured it would be the strongest I could do.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: timkel on August 18, 2011, 01:35:09 AM
Note there are wire "stays" cut from spring steel wire, available is sizes to to be used with 16 and 24 inch OC joists. These are used to hold the insulation up in place.

Back home I've seen deer mice chew through foam as if it was cheese, not sure I'd recommend that. Three-eighths plywood will keep most curious rodents out. Ours has been left alone for a couple winters now. If they are determined they will chew through that.
Originally I insulated my floor with 6" of fiberglass insilation held in place with the wire cross pieces. I actually did this 2 times. Both times animals pulled it out within few years. Next I tried the 4' x 8' x 1" foam panels. I cut the panels into 22.5" x 48" pieces and installed them between the rafters up against the floor. I used screws to secure the panels in place. This method has worked very well. The animals have not disturbed it at all in over 10 years. But I think my floor needs more then 1" of insulation. Now I am considering the 4' x 8' x 2" foam panels and adding 2" more insulation.
I think spray foam would also work well. But the cost is high. Chicken wire is also a good idea.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 18, 2011, 05:04:10 AM
Both times animals pulled it out within few years.


The wires work but there still needs to be something else to keep the rodents, etc out. Hence the plywood. Chicken wire spaces are too large to keep mice out and the wire gauge is too small to be bite proof to larger rodents.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: OlJarhead on August 18, 2011, 05:16:01 AM
Originally I insulated my floor with 6" of fiberglass insilation held in place with the wire cross pieces. I actually did this 2 times. Both times animals pulled it out within few years. Next I tried the 4' x 8' x 1" foam panels. I cut the panels into 22.5" x 48" pieces and installed them between the rafters up against the floor. I used screws to secure the panels in place. This method has worked very well. The animals have not disturbed it at all in over 10 years. But I think my floor needs more then 1" of insulation. Now I am considering the 4' x 8' x 2" foam panels and adding 2" more insulation.
I think spray foam would also work well. But the cost is high. Chicken wire is also a good idea.

So perhaps using fiberglass bats held in by foam secured with something else?  Sounds like the foam did well for you.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: JavaMan on August 18, 2011, 07:05:39 AM
I was wondering, OJH, if you had any handle on what I am calling "fixed costs" - in otherwords, simply the costs of going to and from the site?

I'm working on a "budget", so to speak for what I hope will not be the first and last trip up this year and got to thinking about what it costs for gas, food, etc... other than lumber, nails, and other materials that I use.  I was wondering if anyone else has thought of what the costs were to get to the site and back.  So far I have about $225 in gas/food/ and other expenses of traveling.

Most of that is fuel for the truck (ouch!)
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: timkel on August 18, 2011, 08:21:29 AM
So perhaps using fiberglass bats held in by foam secured with something else?  Sounds like the foam did well for you.
I think if there is any kind of cavity above the foam, then they will get inside any nest, ect. I plan on using foam right up against the plywood floor.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: MountainDon on August 18, 2011, 08:39:50 AM
thinking about what it costs for gas, food, etc...


Food doesn't count, IMO; we all eat no matter what. Unless restaurant food is chosen over prepare it yourself food.

Gasoline and the other associated vehicle costs do add up.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
Post by: hillsvillehermit on August 18, 2011, 09:44:58 AM
I've heard of using hardware cloth on the bottom of the joists to keep the insulation in and critters out, but I've never actually seen whether it works or not.
Title: Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)