CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 01:46:04 AM

Title: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 01:46:04 AM
Monday - March 21st, 2016

I've started a new thread because this is my 2nd CountryPlan build. My first build is located over at my other thread here: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10641.0

I am basically copying my previous 20x30 with loft but going with the smaller size of 14x24 which I guess would be considered CountryPlans 'Enchilada' plans (which I do plan to purchase in the future). I'll try to document the money and time I spend on everything and I hope I'll keep up with that. I tried to do that with my last build and just gave up and stopped keeping track of what I spent and how long it took me. It's hard to do that with a whole house because your buying something every day two or three times a day and it's easy to loose track, at least for me.

If you look back at my last build you'll notice that I never really 'totally' finished it on the outside or the inside before I ended up selling it. I think a number of people here on CountryPlans end up selling their place after they build it (and maybe even before they finish it like me), at least I've come across a few threads where I noticed that happening.

A major difference from my last build to this one is that I'm not using steel and angle iron for my piers and beams, I'm using 4x4's and also 2x4 walls. Another difference is that there is a lot of rock on my land and it's also on a slope where as my last build was much more level and not a single pebble got in my way when I dug all 15 pier holes with a shovel. (I'm digging these pier holes by hand also) The biggest difference for us with this build is that we are off grid totally and we love it! We have solar panels, a wind turbine, we setup a rain catchment system with pressurized and reverse osmosis water, and a composite toilet.

After we sold our first CountryPlan house we ended up buying 5 acres with little to no restrictions, unlike the first build where there was a home owners group in place with a lot of rules, it was also just a 74x130 lot and not 5 acres. We are in a much better secluded area and close to our church, the hardest part of this move is that my work is a whopping 85 miles away...one way! I'll be retiring in a few years so I won't have to tackle that long drive for too much longer.

Ok, that's enough about the past, now on to the present.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 01:59:39 AM
Monday - March 21st, 2016

In the first part of October 2015 our Derksen building was put on our land. Shortly after that we decided to go off grid with everything. We've lived in other places and hauled water for years so we are basically used to the off grid life style. The one thing we didn't do in the past is to go off grid with electricity. We ended up buying a bunch of batteries, charge controllers, wind turbine, and many other do dads that have to do with electricity and I will explain all of that in near future posts.

When we first had the building put on the property we had decided to be content with just living in this 16x40 building and making that our home. But then in the beginning of March 2016 I guess I got some strength and desire to build my 2nd CountryPlan place and now here I go!!!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 02:38:03 AM
Here is Pier #1 completed on March 20th, 2016

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F03-20-2016-14x24-01.jpg&hash=51eba42f1061cf169e216cf99245ebd8)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 06:04:40 AM
Here's the youtube video of Pier #1: https://www.youtube.com/embed/BwK7qp99NR8
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 09:32:54 AM
Monday - March 21st, 2016

Ok, pier hole number 2 has a big rock/boulder alongside it. I tried to dig around it and used a real huge pipe to pry it but it's not budging. Would it still be ok to just pour the concrete around the post and leave the boulder there? End result would be that one side of the pier hole would have this boulder next to it. The boulder would be about 6 to 8 inches away from the post and angle upward and outward. You can almost see where the post is going to be, the lower left part of the hole has a slight radius to it and you can tell 'about' where the post will be and how close it'll be to the rock.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F03-21-2016-14x24-01.jpg&hash=7dba08a48b93caacd7f8e482481a454f)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F03-21-2016-14x24-02.jpg&hash=04a3681de61a0578104d6e20bec0dcf4)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F03-21-2016-14x24-03.jpg&hash=1e40d9d52c6933a781d3eb802f707da4)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 21, 2016, 11:24:43 AM
AL I was going to tell you something but it may be too late.  I would locate all the pier locations first and explore them for similar problems before pouring any of them.  If it occurs again and again at other pier locations you may want to shift your build one direction or another to miss it or even others.  But if you decided to move on to another and pour them then you will just have to live with it or others as they occur. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 06:37:25 PM
I can break the rock with a couple of small tools. Here's an awesome video showing how to break/crack a boulder:

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20282799,00.html
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 21, 2016, 06:39:21 PM
redoverfarm, thanks for your post and suggestions. I'm going to try my best to break and dig the rock but if I can't get it I may just move a post a little to one side or the other (I hope). Thanks again!!!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 22, 2016, 02:15:26 PM
First boulder removal: Almost: https://youtu.be/uNcWIMSmtww (https://youtu.be/uNcWIMSmtww)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: pmichelsen on March 23, 2016, 02:44:57 AM
If it were me, I would leave rocks of that size in place, as long as you can still get your post in. You're going to now need to fill the void now that the rick is gone.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 23, 2016, 05:06:29 AM
Pmichelsen - thanks for posting. Your oh so right about leaving the boulders alone if possible. I was wondering about what you said: If there happens to be a very large rock/boulder inches away from where the post will be - is the rock as stable as dirt, will it move around when forces such as frost heave are applied? Logic tells me that if and when dirt happens to move around it displaces itself it can eventually end up filling any voids that were created but if a rock moves it'll stay where it moved to until it's moved again...I don't know - I'm just play'in with thoughts here. So I think that it's a bad idea to let the concrete that is holding up your pier be poured against a large rock or boulder.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 23, 2016, 02:05:58 PM
Here's that large boulder I pulled out of the ground. Then I got my plans and dimensions were a little different than I thought. I didn't even have to dig up that boulder! So I put it back and buried it again. Another lesson learned:

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160322_124111_zpspobvi44x.JPG&hash=b061f9599296f40035b91b089df0438e)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 23, 2016, 02:08:03 PM
I dug pier hole number 2 (in the right place). It's just about 3 feet deep.

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160323_105328_zpsucedhyjk.JPG&hash=8bf966c2bb9db7e9df003bfe3f884703)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 23, 2016, 02:11:38 PM
Just before I poured into pier hole number 2, I wanted to see if my wife could fit in it. I also have a video of my wife in Pier hole #1 of my first countryplan house...here's wife in pier hole number 2 in 2nd countryplan house...

https://youtu.be/T2kmE8VOiY4
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 25, 2016, 06:56:39 AM
Friday - March 25th, 2016

Pier #2 Done! The hole took 860 lbs of concrete, that's 10.75 80 lb bags. That's almost getting too big of a hole. you can see how I was off a little bit from center line when I dug my hole. I will leave the string over the top of each hole as I dig so that won't happen again. (at least for half of the depth, then I'll remove the string to get it out of my way.)

I've calculated the cost of each pier at ten 80 lb bags and one 4x4x8 post: $50. I'll have 12 posts all together so that's $600 for all the posts.

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160325_084117_zpskvkzbuwb.JPG&hash=d1bf681e0e3f60bfa477c4b3ce3a6af9)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 25, 2016, 07:01:30 AM
Friday - March 25th, 2016

Here is a video that shows the condition of my soil at around the 3 foot depth. The red clayish stuff starts at about the 1 1/2 to 2 foot depth.

https://youtu.be/bezTUQz6J5I
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 25, 2016, 08:16:01 AM
Friday - March 25th, 2016

I thought I'd fill you in on our off grid water situation. As you know we are living in our 16x40 building while we build the CountryPlan house and we are totally off grid. The only 'on grid' thing we have is our $24 a month trash removal bill.

We heat with a wood stove and a large blue flame propane heater. We have a really nice small and narrow sized propane cooking stove that runs off of 1 small 20 lb propane cylinder and it'll last for many months with only one fill, we don't cook a whole lot and as we've gotten older we love to go out to eat...a lot! We also have a compost toilet and use really fine wood chips along with it. (It's amazing how poop turns into nice dirt through composting)

My electricity is by way of solar panels and a wind turbine. I presently have 500 watts worth of solar panels but really need at least one more panel. It hooks up to eight 6 volt batteries and I run a 24 volt system. I also have a generator that helps me charge the batteries on cloudy days. The wind turbine doesn't really do a lot but just kind of tops off the batteries in higher winds. My solar situation is pretty awesome and we always marvel at how great it all works. I will post future videos on how I have it set up and all the different equipment I use for my electricity.

You may be wondering how we refrigerate. What a lot of solar powered off grid people do is buy a chest freezer and also buy a temperature controller and turn the chest freezer into a frig and that's what we did. If you set the probe just right you can freeze stuff near the bottom and refrigerate stuff near the top.

I get my water from a few different places and we just recently began to get our water from the rain. Just a few weeks ago I installed gutters on one side of the building and it's amazing how many gallons you can get from just one rain fall. I also get water from a few different travel stops and gas stations and where ever else I run into 'safe' water.

I was at a rather large storage building sale and bought a used reverse osmosis system. I took all the parts and cleaned it up, bought new filters, and hooked it into my sink. I'm kinda still working on it. They use a lot of water to make a little good water, that's the only drawback.

I have a 35 gallon tank under my sink and it connects to a harbor freight well pump and pressurizes the system to the sink.

(Pic coming soon)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160320_175110_zps2yjmzo8r.JPG&hash=c2aa0bf8b0694a82cdafd675afd41e4e)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 25, 2016, 02:32:13 PM
My Ford Festiva is my pickup car, I use it to build my house:

https://youtu.be/NFPHHj1KrzM
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on March 25, 2016, 02:43:58 PM
Hahah... reminds me, I had a 1992 (I think) dodge colt hatchback, I used to cram so many 2x4's in the back of that thing, I am tempted to say 80 of them but I can't remember now. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 25, 2016, 03:04:57 PM
Ya Adam, I usually take pics whenever I stuff a lot of things into the Festiva.

I've been able to fit a full size couch in there one time. The hatch backs in those Festivas are more than 4 feet wide and I always have the back seat taken out of them. Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 25, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
Here is the hardware that I'll use to connect the beam to the posts:

https://youtu.be/Q_ojGeN1Yb8

And here is a video of Pier hole number 3:

https://youtu.be/cuBviE_KaNs

And here's Pier number 3 with 5 bags of concrete in it, that's 400 lbs. (Finished it in the dark)

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160325_203135_zpsugdtcyxu.jpg&hash=dd454638e3c80741d551b0f6ec09c232)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on March 25, 2016, 05:41:10 PM
I find it interesting that you are already setting posts, but have not really decided on how many you want to set and possibly don't have a complete plan.  Versus myself who makes hundreds of plans but never seems to set a single post.  :)  We all work a bit differently I suppose, but it looks like its coming along. 

Are you working alone most of the time, other than using your wife as a measuring stick of course?  ;)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 26, 2016, 12:35:21 AM
I am following CountryPlans 'Little House Plans' and they call for 6 posts on 2 rows of beams - I have the complete plans.

Setting posts is easy and fun to me, it gets more exciting as each one appears out of the ground. I've done this before when I built and followed CountryPlans 20x30 with loft and I used my wife as a measuring stick 'one' time there also (for a joke and a laugh of course). My wife does like to get involved and she will nail in a few things, help me hold up stuff - we have a lot of fun together. One time we had 5000 miles worth of fun when we bicycled across America on a 2 seat tandem bicycle, that's another story.

One thing I would like to re-mention here is that I am building this totally off grid and living totally off grid in the building beside the build. A neat thing I didn't mention previously is that I totally used rain water to mix the concrete for the piers - I thought that was a cool off grid idea!

I build totally alone and find ways to do difficult tasks with what ever tools I have available. I remember that there was only one time where I had other people come and help me other than my wife and that was on the previous CountryPlan 20x30 I built. It had 2 30' long LVL beams and I got 3 neighbors to help me lift them in place, those LVL's were about 28' off of the ground.

I have been playing with the thought of putting in a middle beam to rest the center of the house on. A middle beam is not called out in the plans but a middle beam can only strengthen the place. The plans call out for 4x8 beams with 2x6 joists on 16"centers for the floor. Maybe I'll use 2x8's for a stronger floor...haven't decided on that one yet.

I have never set a post in the wrong place and I hope that doesn't happen but I have dug up a boulder just for the fun of it. (No, truthfully it was a mistake but I tried my best to make it fun).
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on March 26, 2016, 02:56:18 AM
Ah, gotcha... adding strength can't be a bad thing.
 
5000 miles on a tandem bike with the wife... that must be one heck of story to tell!  If you marriage lasts through that, then you know you have a winner and someone you can rely on in the future.

Sounds like you are building at your leisure, versus having to rush through everything and not get to enjoy it.  Sounds like a nice way to go.  It adds a whole other level of complexity when you are also off grid doing the building, that's for sure. 

I'll be checking in often to watch the progress, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 26, 2016, 05:41:39 AM
Nice to hear from you again Adam.

You said: "Sounds like you are building at your leisure, versus having to rush through everything and not get to enjoy it."

I don't know about that, the word 'leisure' sounds to laid back to me and I am kind of rushing but hopefully not so much that I make
mistakes. I try to never let a day go by without doing something on the build, that way there's a nice sense of accomplishment at the end of the day.
I still work 40 hours a week and work is over 80 miles one way so there's only one way to live in order to get things done during the week - and
that's...as little sleep as possible.

One great thing is that I work the night shift and so I have the mornings to myself. Now money is a different issue. I'm building this paycheck to
paycheck, it's not like I have a massive pile of lumber just waiting to form a house. I get in my Ford Festiva and go to Lowes just about every
other day. Yesterday I had 800 lbs of concrete in my little car!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 26, 2016, 01:23:26 PM
Saturday - March 26th, 2016

I used old buckets for forms so that the concrete around the piers is higher than ground level:

https://youtu.be/RTLbQEa1OQM
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 26, 2016, 01:46:17 PM
Another video explaining stuff about the buckets:

https://youtu.be/jKg-tOLhWE8
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 26, 2016, 02:07:29 PM
Saturday - March 26th, 2016

Here is a pic of the blue barrel that I cut to put around the post and fill with concrete:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160326_110114_zpsqceoqpos.jpg&hash=ff29ea80f7391b4d8c57fdd949c06262)

Here's the result:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160326_113320_zpsabr2u4eb.jpg&hash=232ab48763f58fa30fc7bbffaa27c569)

Pier number 4...ready to pour:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160326_171203_zps2u6bzqs1.jpg&hash=a859b9a6abc1930fdc030d2e7289f3b9)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 26, 2016, 02:26:34 PM
Saturday - March 26th, 2016

Ready to pour pier number 4 (video):

https://youtu.be/B2glc3TBjyE
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 26, 2016, 07:11:14 PM
Saturday - March 26th, 2016

Went to Lowes and bought one of them 12" diameter tubes to pour the concrete in, it was around $14 total and about 48 inches tall. I chopped
it about in half and used it in pier hole number 4. I only used 4 80lb bags too (instead of 10 or so). It ends up being cheaper to use the tube dude! One
thing to mention is that I poured around 3 or 4 inches above the hole floor and then set the tube on top of that, leveled the tube straight up and down the
best I could, and then poured into the tube. When I was done I filled the void to the top with dirt.

Well, that's it for today - this is Allan signing off...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160326_224955_zpsztjl1gfb.jpg&hash=fc534900b10b65a2f8cf11552ef3041c)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 28, 2016, 03:23:23 AM
Monday - March 28th, 2016 - (Little House Plans 14x24)

Got my #2 beam string lined up at the 9'8" mark from beam line #1. You can see all the rocks that I end up digging out of my pier holes, I'm thankful that I haven't hit a boulder.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160327_195335_zpske6n9n0h.jpg&hash=ed3f8ea46c68a1c57beaf235138444d3)

Question About House Height:

I have a question about my beam height. I would like my beams to be as high off the ground as I can so that I can
work under the house easily. Since my land slopes I can put the beams just high enough to crawl under on the uphill
side and then the house will be higher down below or...I can go to the highest point possible on the uphill side and the
house will be even higher down below. I'll only have a few feet of travel to choose from because I've used 6 foot post on
the uphill side and 8' post on the downhill side. Any helpful comments?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 28, 2016, 08:20:10 AM
All set to setup and pour pier #1 on beam #2

(Pic 1 of 2 coming soon)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160328_114628_zpsd575ge1s.jpg&hash=9b636fc90f627c9a4434e4012c58bd8a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160328_120817_zpsr44y0u8o.jpg&hash=fe8755f2b152db68ba6523f706f35356)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 28, 2016, 11:02:00 AM
Pier number 5 - 1st pier for beam 2

https://youtu.be/x3jo4mu1_L4
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 29, 2016, 04:43:52 AM
Tuesday - March 29th, 2016

Went to Lowes to price some 2x6x16 footers, that's what I'll be using for my beams and floor joists. It is
interesting how the price of treated lumber is so close to the price of non-treated, only 0.42 cents difference
between treated and non-treated.

The non-treated (common) is DF - Douglas-Fir, I don't know what kind the treated is. I'm not sure which one
would be better for me for my floor and/or beams, any suggestions?

I'm going to need 25 of these all together for my beams and floor. If I get the treated limber it'll cost me: $297.62
(2 pics coming soon)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160328_200935_zpsb8d9shfp.jpg&hash=c6689151c2b601b0818d91cce591ec5e)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160328_201216_zpswbzbuinx.jpg&hash=5d719c0963893d891a511efc2db17bc5)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on March 29, 2016, 05:11:54 AM
I would not use the treated unless it was required because of the distance to the ground; 12" or less for beams and 18" or less for floor joists. The treated stuff is more likely to warp, twist, cup, etc. The DF is kiln dried (KD). The treated usually started out as KD but then gets soaked with the treatment and left to air dry. Very likely the PT is southern pine.

2x6 (#2 DF, 16" OC) for joists are small for 14 feet span unless there is a center beam. I don't remember if you stated there was a center beam and didn't take the time to look back to see. 2x10 (#2 DF, 16" OC) spans over 14 feet according to the spancalc at AWC (http://www.awc.org/codes-standards/calculators-software/spancalc)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 29, 2016, 06:31:35 AM
Tuesday - March 29th, 2016

Great Don! Thank you for your information - it helped me out tremendously.

I should have mentioned recently that the span from beam to beam for the 'Little House' is 9' 8" and not 14'. Johns plans
show to use 2x6's for the 9' 8" span.

I used that span calculator that you linked me to and I noticed that it had 3 different types of
DF: Douglas-Fir Larch, Douglas-Fir Larch (North), and Douglas-Fir South. I used all three types of DF
in that calculator hoping that their span would be over my 9' 8" beam to beam dimension and here's what I found:

DF - Larch (North): 9' 9"

DF - Larch: 9' 9"

DF - South: 8' 10"

I wonder which one of these DF's Lowes is carrying? (I hope not the south) By the way, I plan to NOT use a middle beam.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 29, 2016, 02:05:47 PM
Pier #6 ready to pour:

https://youtu.be/X0feVJ9iW-s
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: bayview on March 29, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Your build is nicely documented!   

It certainly will be a great help for a another builder.

/.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 29, 2016, 11:15:11 PM

bayview said, "Your build is nicely documented!  It certainly will be a great help for a another builder."

I don't know about that bayview. Even though this is my second CountryPlan house I still don't consider myself a house builder or anything close to that. I'm just doing the best I can with the little money and resources I have. I know I'm taking a few short-cuts here and there but I try to study to make sure that they are not dangerous short-cuts. The tons of videos I've watched and am watching along with the help of people like yourself and others here on this forum make my build easier to understand. Thanks for posting, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 29, 2016, 11:20:46 PM
Wednesday - March 30th, 2016

Got home in the early am and realized that it is supposed to storm in the early morning. Well, pier hole
number 6 (pier 2/beam 2) was all ready to pour the 4 bags of 80 lb concrete. I knew that if I just left it and went
to bed then the hole would fill up with water and I'd probably have to wait a few days before the pour so I went
ahead and poured it till around 3am with a penlight in my mouth.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160330_025503_zpssktjnvei.jpg&hash=7e1e3d71f1e41ba71d0d6349775d8bf4)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 30, 2016, 06:14:35 AM
Wednesday Morning (daylight) - March 30th, 2016

Pier 2 on Beam Row 2.

Now I'm going to cut the tops of the paper and plastic cylinders that I used to hold the concrete
above ground level. The goal is to make any water run off the top and not sit and drain into the post.

I've been thinking lately about a French Drain around the house so it'll direct water away and keep it from coming
under the house. I don't know much at all about French Drains, I'm thinking it's a ditch covered with gravel and then
some kind of pipe under there to cause water that's under the ground to be directed down the sides and to the back slope
of the house.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160330_093951_zpsz5rbifvh.jpg&hash=01fb385322ef5fd6a7fa09a00af5f85a)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 30, 2016, 07:03:47 AM
French drain is not as simple as you outlined but not that difficult either.  You will need a roll of corrugated perforated drail pipe.  4" is common for that size structure.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_24139-124-04010100H_1z0wg69__?productId=3306088&pl=1

I would definitely get the "sleeve" that covers the pipe.  It will prevent silt. mud, or dirt from stopping up the slits and allow the drainage water to enter.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=154746-71461-34141-6&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3199149&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Dig your trench so that it will be at the edge of your overhang of the roof.  If you are in a freeze area that should be below the frost line so that it will not freeze the water in the pipe and allow it to run year round.  The trench in the uphill portion will need to be pitched from the center both directions to the sides of the house.  In essence raised in the center.  Backfill with some sort of stone. This will easily allow you to create that pitch rather than digging soil.  Lay the pipe after installing the sleeve around the perimeter.  If the house site is pitched from back to front just go with the lay of the land for drainage on both sides of the house.  If not you will need to create that pitch.  1/4" per foot.  After laying the drain tile then cover with stone the same as before the tile.  This will help filter the water as well before reaching the tile (pipe).  I always like to use some type of membrane over the stone before backfilling the trench with soil back to grade.

On a somewhat unrelated note regarding using the crawlspace for storage or accessibility.  Prior to your decking being installed I would lay a layer of plastic on the ground and cover it with stone.  It makes it so much easier than trying to cart, hand carry or bucket it in later when you have limited headspace.  Try to keep all your drainage pipes up close to the bottom of the floor joist ( pitched of course) until you need to drop them to the ground along the perimeter.  Aggravating to be stumbling and try to crawl over them later.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 30, 2016, 08:23:40 AM
Thank you redoverfarm, I've still got a lot of digging ahead of me.

What I don't understand about the whole french drain thing is what is the end result on the surface like? What I mean by
that is what does the top look like when it's done? Do you walk on gravel at the front of your house or does dirt cover up
the final ditch - grass grows on top of it and no one knows there's a pipe under their feet?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 30, 2016, 08:25:11 AM
Wednesday Afternoon - March 30th, 2016

I thought I would switch the building subject for a second and talk about wood stove kindling. I have found
some of the best stuff ever!!!

https://youtu.be/6BXl2nHYWhU
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 30, 2016, 12:15:16 PM
As I stated in my earlier post " I always like to use some type of membrane over the stone before backfilling the trench with soil back to grade."

On the front depending on the grade slope you may not need anything as the water will just naturally run away from the house.  If the front is not needed then just run the perforated pipe (sides of the house) past the house to a point that the pipe starts to show on the slope.  At that point I cut a 45 deg slope on the end to match the ground and end it there.  I take it from your earlier post that it is sloped downward toward the front from back.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: rick91351 on March 30, 2016, 12:59:59 PM
As I stated in my earlier post " I always like to use some type of membrane over the stone before backfilling the trench with soil back to grade."

On the front depending on the grade slope you may not need anything as the water will just naturally run away from the house.  If the front is not needed then just run the perforated pipe (sides of the house) past the house to a point that the pipe starts to show on the slope.  At that point I cut a 45 deg slope on the end to match the ground and end it there.  I take it from your earlier post that it is sloped downward toward the front from back.

We do that as well when we improve springs..... Dig your trench away from the spring on grade.  Lay in a layer of drain rock - lay in a row of 4 inch perforated PVC pipe then drain rock over that about a foot or so deep some time more. Then lay in a good healthy membrane - stopping there I have had se plastic sheeting - house wrap or a not to new plastic tarp in a pinch. (Anything to keep the soil out of the drain rock.)  Then back fill with soil .   
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 30, 2016, 02:08:02 PM
Oh - ok...back fill with soil. Sorry I missed that. Thank you guys for your patience.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on March 30, 2016, 02:17:47 PM
Here's a pretty good picture of what it would look like.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yardbarberusa.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F10%2Faugusta-drainage-systems.jpg&hash=d88fbbc74e0aa44d8584d499ac413cb8)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 30, 2016, 02:33:22 PM
Now that, along with the other descriptions, explains it totally...nice pic Adam - thanks.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on March 30, 2016, 04:13:28 PM
Here's a video showing my beveled tops of the concrete:

https://youtu.be/f8pKi5CNWas
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 01, 2016, 05:30:42 AM
I have a question about attaching my beams to my 4x4 piers. I realize that I can use
post to beam connectors made out of steel like this one:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FBCS2-24_zpsvlkz4r3h.jpg&hash=db73c351c93be16c362303c27b91fa33)

But I've seen a few builds where they simply seem to use plywood gusset plates or 2/4's on each side
of the beam and post connection and then nail or bolt them together like that. Is there anything wrong with that method?

Plywood Gusset Plate:
(Pic coming soon)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FPlywoodPlate_zpsaq0gyf2q.gif&hash=db09e9a3fdf0926e0351cca2012f5c81)

2x4 Gusset Plates:
(Pic coming soon)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FRimJoistOnPostWith2x4Lagged72dpi250w_zpsvhiovr7j.jpg&hash=ed6c8684485bf93ffd008553cca59f24)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: John Raabe on April 01, 2016, 06:36:04 AM
All of those will add rigidity to their connections. I would guess the last one with the through bolts and screws would be the strongest.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 01, 2016, 02:13:29 PM
Digging Pier Hole #7:

https://youtu.be/W8cCmLmrPOY
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 01, 2016, 02:14:44 PM
Pier Hole Digging Thoughts...

https://youtu.be/FvgabMEX5Ic
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 02, 2016, 04:25:06 AM
Saturday Morning - April 2nd, 2016

All of those will add rigidity to their connections. I would guess the last one with the through bolts and screws would be the strongest.

In regards to the 3rd post above:

Thank you John, thanks for looking! Yes, I like the idea of using 2x's along with bolts and screws.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 02, 2016, 04:55:50 AM
Saturday Morning - April 2nd, 2016

I thought I would let you know how long it takes for me to do my piers:

With the amount of rocks in my soil and going to around the 3 feet deep mark, the average
pier hole takes me around 45 minutes to dig with a shovel. The last 5 minutes or so are
done with the post hole digger, just to get the loose stuff out - the shovel does all the
work. If I'm hitting a lot of rock then increase that time to an hour.

Then comes measuring and cutting the Quikrete Form Tube, placing it in the hole along with the post itself,
putting the post-level on the post itself and adding the temporary braces, and lastly - making sure the post is in the
perfect position to the string line(s). That takes me about 30 minutes.

Then comes mixing the 4 bags of 80 lb Quikrete, putting it in the hole down the tube and tapping it down and then filling
outside of the tube area with dirt - that takes me an hour.

So all in all, it takes me around 2 1/2 to 3 hours a pier hole and I'm going at it all with no breaks in-between. I'm usually
on a tight schedule to get to work or go somewhere so a lot of times I'm racing when I'm doing a pier. I guess it
would be safe to say that 3 1/2 hours for each pier would be a nice time frame where you can take it easy and not race.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 03, 2016, 07:15:54 AM
Sunday - April 3rd, 2016

Digging pier hole #8 and hitting a lot of rocks. I have to tackle the edge of what apparently looks like
a boulder or large rock...

https://youtu.be/kGViaGJAcYk

Now...here's how I break the boulder...

https://youtu.be/DubdsaqTiCk
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 03, 2016, 09:20:47 AM
Wow, pretty impressive.  All these little things that come up and make you wonder what to do.
Thanks for sharing, I wouldn't have thought to try to break the rock... 

Appreciate the timing outline as well, should come in handy for me to estimate the time I need when I start.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 03, 2016, 06:22:04 PM
Sunday - April 3rd, 2016

Got pier #8 finished today and beam row #1 is done. Only 4 more pier holes to dig!

As you've possibly read in previous post, I've been using those 12" diameter Quikrete Quik Tubes and
I've had to cut a few of them to my desired length leaving smaller length pieces. In this video I explain how
one fits into the other to create an adjustable Form Tube:

https://youtu.be/8Lq7UxZ7tX8
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 04, 2016, 04:28:26 AM
Monday - April 4th, 2016

Got pier #8 done yesterday, short video about that and it shows the string line and how far away
it is from each pier. The piers should line up very closely to one another on a pier row with little or
no string gap. The distance from pier to pier can have more tolerance but the string gap shouldn't
be off at all if possible.

One piece of logic that I think about is this: If you have piers lined up at a string line at the bottom of your posts,
that doesn't mean that things are the same at the top, due to not being perfectly level and warping of
the post. Putting the string at the top of the lowest post and then tying the string to the last post may end
up showing you different string gaps among each post...just some thoughts.

https://youtu.be/w_b3Zk67jxg
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 04, 2016, 04:57:36 AM
Sounds good but if the end post that you are attaching the string line to is not square to the rest of your build then the rest of your build will be off.  The best way is using batter boards in both directions. Proven build practice.   That insures that the complete build is square.  Coming off of your batter board with your strings makes sure that each post is in line with the others.  Using a 4' level in conjunction with the string line will get the post plumb.  If you use the batter board string line approach to set the two end post on each end FIRST and they are correct then using the string line from the four corner post will work.  This step is critical.  If it is just a little off you will be fighting that " just a little off" completely to the ridge cap.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: pmichelsen on April 04, 2016, 05:36:46 AM
Looks like you're making steady progress.

One question I've had: Prior to setting your posts, did you consider digging footings, making a little rebar cage and then attaching Simpson brackets to the top allowing you to bolt your posts as opposed to placing your posts directly in the concrete?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 04, 2016, 07:27:01 AM
Thanks Redoverfarm!

Yes, I did use the batter board method and squared up my corner posts but I used steel stakes instead of boards. You
can see it here:
(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160320_143938_zpsn95evcqh.jpg&hash=786e488c511fca8befe18e8138c8eaab)
(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160320_173159_zpssg0qjxua.jpg&hash=e68d5c2f9f4467a1abe1a637d4842b2f)

And thanks also pmichelsen!

Yes I did know about the footings with rebar and brackets and have seen almost all builds done without
the posts in concrete. At the present, I don't consider my piers in concrete a terrible mistake. I think that six piers 4 foot apart and in the
ground with concrete will have no problems holding up the 14x24. Will the treated wood in the concrete rot away in time? I know of many
instances where posts have lasted many years in concrete, I guess the main factor is moisture and if water gets to them. Will my un-rebarred
concrete crack and move about in the ground? I don't know.

Yes, I believe the common method of what you described is 'the right way' and 'the better way'.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 04, 2016, 08:09:41 AM
In regards to my posts being in concrete in the ground as opposed to on top of a pier using a bracket, here's what
the engineer at Quikrete Company told me:

QUOTE:
======================================================================
Thank you, for contacting Quikrete with your question. The concrete does not damage the wood post.
 
The post can potentially be subjected to more moisture when placed in ground.
 
 
Regards,
 
Christopher Edwards
QUIKRETE®
770-216-9580
====================================================
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 04, 2016, 08:11:33 AM
Starting on Pier #9:

https://youtu.be/BJvgszhvrkk
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 04, 2016, 08:14:52 AM
Quote
I believe the common method of what you described is 'the right way' and 'the better way'
Read Simpson's product guide, that bracket has no lateral capacity, there is very little resistance to toppling of the 6x6.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 04, 2016, 10:27:25 AM
Thanks Redoverfarm!

Yes, I did use the batter board method and squared up my corner posts but I used steel stakes instead of boards. You
can see it here:
.

Yes I saw the steel pipe/rebar you were using for your string line but went back to the beginning and didn't see the batter boards.  Yes the post are in line with the string line but I was wondering about the second row of post being squared off the first row.  Using the tested diagonal measurement is the only way for this to occur.  If you are satisfied Carry On.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 04, 2016, 04:30:57 PM
Yes I saw the steel pipe/rebar you were using for your string line but went back to the beginning and didn't see the batter boards.  Yes the post are in line with the string line but I was wondering about the second row of post being squared off the first row.  Using the tested diagonal measurement is the only way for this to occur.  If you are satisfied Carry On.

Thanks again Redoverfarm,

Yes I did do that diagonal measurement method.

One thing I like about CountryPlans 'Little House Plans' that I'm working from is that my floor will be cantilevered out from the beams in its width. My finished floor will be 2'2" cantilevered out each end in the width and 2' each end in its length from the end posts. So if my beams are not exactly parallel then it's not a big deal. But it will be necessary for the beams to be in line with each other on their perpendicular axis.

The beams are 9'8" c/l from each other and the house width is 14'
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 04, 2016, 05:54:57 PM
Read Simpson's product guide, that bracket has no lateral capacity, there is very little resistance to toppling of the 6x6.

Thank you Don,

I am using 4x4's. I'm a little confused (sorry), are you saying that the post coming out of the
concrete is stronger than using the bracket?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 05, 2016, 02:18:30 AM
Sure, there is not a pivot point between pier and post, which is what the Simpson literature is warning about. That is not an endorsement for this, what you are doing should not be copied, simply clearing up confusion about that detail.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 05, 2016, 04:21:38 AM
Sure, there is not a pivot point between pier and post, which is what the Simpson literature is warning about. That is not an endorsement for this, what you are doing should not be copied, simply clearing up confusion about that detail.

Thank you for clearing that up for me Don, I appreciate your input and expertise.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 05, 2016, 06:18:52 AM
Pier #8 hole is dug, getting ready to set the post:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160405_084545_zpszmunkh95.jpg&hash=89b02b787c0f3dfd6892092e4f5e0e7d)

https://youtu.be/miiQgQQBDDE

Post #9 is set:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160405_101428_zpsmfivx20x.jpg&hash=7bd764bf4be64b750201a61877ac571e)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 05, 2016, 09:58:59 AM
Pier Hole #9 Poured: Almost...

https://youtu.be/bfs5YPYfPYo
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 05, 2016, 10:17:01 PM
I was looking at a CountryPlan Thread called, "Tidy 10x16 with Loft" and it was built
with 12' high walls even though it is small. I really fell in love with it and would like to
have 12' walls in our 14x24 Little House. Here is the link to it:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9422.msg170063;topicseen#msg170063
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 06, 2016, 07:43:10 PM
Wednesday - April 6th, 2016

Went to Lowes to pick up more concrete, another tube, and a 4x6 post. I noticed that those
Quikrete Form Tubes are different sizes and fit into one another - it seems weird. They all
have the same price and number but their diameters are different. Here is a pic of 3 of
them fitting into one another:
(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160406_112637_zps3et1jbe4.jpg&hash=699fe2b7e6985994d145eb2bda07b6f1)

Here's a pic of what I picked up for the next pier (pier #10):
(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160406_113518_zpswxjqhf5j.jpg&hash=d783c60fe08222bddb3902847f66fc74)

Here's the price of the 2x6x12 footers that I plan to use for the walls:
(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160406_111812_zpsklhyqvam.jpg&hash=1cf72df60aa1741df8c2af9315a2a894)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 07, 2016, 04:30:25 AM
It's been just over 4 years since I did my first CountryPlan Happy Dance on our 20x30. Soon
I'll Disco Finger Point on our 14x24!

(Pic coming soon)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20x30HappyDance11112011_zpsezbyddat.jpg&hash=13da35bada4a00941d15b42d67b835ef)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 07, 2016, 06:42:09 AM
Wednesday - April 6th, 2016

Went to Lowes to pick up more concrete, another tube, and a 4x6 post. I noticed that those
Quikrete Form Tubes are different sizes and fit into one another - it seems weird. They all
have the same price and number but their diameters are different. Here is a pic of 3 of
them fitting into one another:

Here's the price of the 2x6x12 footers that I plan to use for the walls:




Slight difference in size makes no real difference to end use but they can ship 3 in the space of one; cheaper.


What does the use of 12 foot walls mean? Big tall ceiling? Loft floor or second floor? How will the wall tops be tied together? Rafter ties at wall tops or will there be a ridge beam as was done in your 20x30? You are modifying the original little house plan and that may place additional stress on certain components.  ???
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 07, 2016, 07:05:56 AM
Good morning Don and thank you again.

Yes, I will be using rafter ties to support the 12 foot walls and the loft will drop down 4 feet to get nice headroom up there.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 07, 2016, 02:10:05 PM
Thursday Evening - April 7th, 2016

Pier #9 is done - it's on the left. But...look what's in the way at pier hole number 10, an oil pipe.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160407_135706_zpslwgao9og.jpg&hash=6becdd806e8e83730698c8cc90895b19)

Come to find out, it's an old one and I was told that it'd be best not to cut it but just dig a few inches away
from it and then pour...ok.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 07, 2016, 03:37:40 PM


Yes, I will be using rafter ties to support the 12 foot walls and the loft will drop down 4 feet to get nice headroom up there.

...with the rafter ties being attached to what or where?  Rafter ties are positioned correctly when attached to the wall top plates or when located no higher than the lower 1/3 of the triangle formed by the rafters and the wall tops.  So I'm puzzled how the "nice headroom up there" will be achieved. ???


Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 07, 2016, 04:45:45 PM
Thursday - April 7th, 2016

My mistake Don, there's no room where there's rafter ties in a loft.

We have decided to 'try' to go with 10' walls, drop the loft floor down 2 feet and create
a dormer on each side of the loft...just like this country plan 14x24.

The main reason for us wanting to do this is so that we can have windows not only
on the loft gable end but on each side of the wall up there.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13714.0
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 07, 2016, 10:33:57 PM
Friday - April 8th, 2016

Got a 200+ gallon water container and it fit in my little Ford Festiva. I'll use
it in my rain catchment system:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160408_001635_zpszssnommt.jpg&hash=bbca90a4211a755cba8d818296826135)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on April 08, 2016, 05:35:40 AM
You could've got a bigger one in there.  ;D
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 08, 2016, 07:07:37 AM
Friday - April 8th, 2016

Digging these pier holes needs to be fun, we need to have fun building our CountryPlan house and we need to have
fun memories of it. I had to dig pier hole #10 wider than normal because I ran into an old well pipe so I had some
fun - here's the vid:

Here's me getting in the hole:

https://youtu.be/h9ptaNb0e3E

And now in the hole:

https://youtu.be/-zahMWYondI
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 08, 2016, 02:04:36 PM
Pier 10 Poured:

https://youtu.be/QEE3EMXnHJU
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 08, 2016, 02:40:40 PM
Pier 10 Poured

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160408_130349_zpsbt7t8tdf.jpg&hash=0dcedcb04d9ebae649b4c900bbeca275)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 08, 2016, 05:24:37 PM
Pier 10 Totally Completed (I was inside this hole)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160408_133003_zps3zrep1ba.jpg&hash=879583f40dbad25efb9a5814ce8a4891)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 08, 2016, 05:33:13 PM
Friday - April 8th, 2016

One off the subject thing I wanted to mention is that I really miss playing my guitar since I've started
being so busy living off grid and then deciding to build CountryPlan #2. It'll be great to get my little home
recording studio setup once again.

Here's me trying to play Chet Atkins tune called, "Snowbird":

https://youtu.be/M_4S_7wLXQw
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 08, 2016, 06:55:52 PM
Sweet!

 [cool]
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 09, 2016, 05:20:29 PM
Saturday - April 9th, 2016

Pier Hole #11 dug:

https://youtu.be/HtqwOyXui58

Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 10, 2016, 03:14:05 AM
Sunday - April 10th, 2016

Got Pier #11 totally finished late last night, only one more to go and then it's time to get those
beams together.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160409_201728_zpskgf1u8qw.jpg&hash=c988e496506983f81bf6cfb78c435b41)

My plan is to get 2x6's that are 12 feet long and sandwich 1/2" plywood in-between
them to make the beams 3 1/2" wide just like the posts width. I'm thinking I will screw and nail the
beams together, cut all post heights level, and then set the beams on top of the post. I will stabilize
the posts on top of the beams by way of 16" long 2x4's on each side and then screw and bolt them.
Something like this:

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FRimJoistOnPostWith2x4Lagged72dpi250w_zpsvhiovr7j.jpg&hash=ed6c8684485bf93ffd008553cca59f24)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 10, 2016, 03:56:06 AM
Are you going to use pressure treated for the 2x6 beams or conventional lumber?  Marine plywood or standard?

I imagine you are high enough off the ground (I think most say over 18" then not needed), and the beam will not be in contact with the elements so perhaps no PT is required.  In fact, the PT twists and is made of more porous wood so for a beam I would think the standard lumber would be stronger. 

Is this a similar technique you used on the first build (where you are doing your dance of joy)?  At what point do you add the bracing?
Finally (sorry for all the questions), have you noticed any lateral movement in your first build (posts leaning out of plumb)?

(That poor Festiva!  I'll bet it's seen more work than many pickups do in their lifetime.)   :)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 10, 2016, 04:39:47 AM
Sunday - April 10th, 2016



My plan is to get 2x6's that are 12 feet long and sandwich 1/2" plywood in-between
them to make the beams 3 1/2" wide just like the posts width. I'm thinking I will screw and nail the
beams together, cut all post heights level, and then set the beams on top of the post. I will stabilize
the posts on top of the beams by way of 16" long 2x4's on each side and then screw and bolt them.
Something like this:



There is nothing preventing you from using 2X6 for your connection between the beam and the post.  In fact it would give you a little more support.  You can use the complete 5-1/2" on your beam and then just center it on your post 3-1/2".  Don't go short on the length.  I would extend the portion of the post by at least 12".  That will give you more area to fasten.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 10, 2016, 12:17:34 PM
Are you going to use pressure treated for the 2x6 beams or conventional lumber?

Thanks for posting Adam! I see no problem using untreated wood from here on up. I'll be over 18" from the
ground.

Is this a similar technique you used on the first build (where you are doing your dance of joy)?

Yes, this build is pretty similar. I dug all 15 pier holes by hand and a little deeper on my 20x30 build
and I also used some square steel posts on the corners and 2 more in the middle and then 9 steel
4x4x1/4 angle iron posts.

At what point do you add the bracing?

The floor on this 14x20 will cantilever out 2 feet on all 4 sides so I figure that I'll put my braces up right after I
get done with the subfloor.

Here's a pic of my 20x30 build and this was around 5 1/2 years ago and it hasn't moved
at all (last time I lived there and check it...before I sold the place around 4 or 5 months ago )

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F10-16-2011bracingdoneangleview.jpg&hash=840111480d83fad3fa3b49339f37d190)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 10, 2016, 12:19:55 PM
Thanks for posting Redoverfarm and letting me know about using 2x6's instead of the 2x4's that I had in mind. Your
help is really appreciated.

I'm about ready to go out there and dig my last pier hole, I'll post again soon.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 10, 2016, 04:49:44 PM
Pier #12 Done and All Piers Done!

https://youtu.be/bJJR7lWpSuU
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 10, 2016, 04:56:07 PM
Thanks for posting Redoverfarm and letting me know about using 2x6's instead of the 2x4's that I had in mind. Your
help is really appreciated.

I'm about ready to go out there and dig my last pier hole, I'll post again soon.

AJ the easiest way to line up the 2X post/beam support is to cut the piece of scrap 2X material the same thickness of the overhanging 2X6 which would be about 1".  When the time comes just hold it up against the post and line up one edge of the 2X6 to where it is flush.  Then it will be centered on your post without the task of measuring center on each.

If you cut that scrap the same length as what will be hanging down on your post then it should be right elevation wise and flush with the top edge of your beam. So in essence with that scrap resting against your post and pushed up to the bottom of the beam you will be set with the horizontal and vertical alignment.   Actually you could pre attach a couple to the post on the same side which would keep you beam from sliding off when it comes time to set the beam upon your post.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 11, 2016, 06:21:02 AM
Thank you John,

I'm having trouble understanding what you've explained. I had the impression that all I have to do is put my beams together making sure that I stagger the joints and that each joint is in a position where it will rest on a post. I plan to clamp or temporarily screw the beam on the side of the posts, level them, and then mark the posts where they need to be cut to the proper height. Once the top of all posts are cut, I then simply lay the beam on top and then attach those 2x6 scrap pieces on each side of each post.

I don't know what you mean by overhanging 2x6
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 11, 2016, 08:43:33 AM
Thank you John,

I'm having trouble understanding what you've explained. I had the impression that all I have to do is put my beams together making sure that I stagger the joints and that each joint is in a position where it will rest on a post. I plan to clamp or temporarily screw the beam on the side of the posts, level them, and then mark the posts where they need to be cut to the proper height. Once the top of all posts are cut, I then simply lay the beam on top and then attach those 2x6 scrap pieces on each side of each post.

I don't know what you mean by overhanging 2x6

AJ the overhang is what I am calling the part of the 2X6 (5-1/2") gusset (or scrap pieces that you are referring to) that extends out past the 4X4 post(3-1/2") on each side when you attach it to the beam & post.   
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 11, 2016, 02:10:32 PM
Monday - April 11th, 2016

Thanks again John, I totally get it now!

It took me a bit of deep thought to catch everything you meant but I worked
it out in my head step by step and now I get it. That's a cool idea, I definetly
didn't think about doing that. Anything 1" thick would work though right?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 11, 2016, 02:34:39 PM
Monday - April 11th, 2016

Thanks again John, I totally get it now!

It took me a bit of deep thought to catch everything you meant but I worked
it out in my head step by step and now I get it. That's a cool idea, I definetly
didn't think about doing that. Anything 1" thick would work though right?

Yes that's correct.  You might want to check the width of your 2X6's.  I have seen some that are not a true 5-1/2" anymore.  Just like other wider 2X material (2X10 = 1-1/2"X9-1/4" , 2X8=1=1/2"X7-1/4") and so on .  Not that it will make that much difference in your application but you might keep that in mind to try to get the same on each side.

I guess it is like everything else anymore.  You don't actually get what you pay for.  Here is a little chart showing the actual size of wood.

http://www.engineersedge.com/commercial_lumber_sizes.htm
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 12, 2016, 04:30:56 PM
Tuesday - April 12th, 2016

Haven't done anything on the build in 2 days now, waiting for payday and getting 2x6's.

I have a little efco M4000 chainsaw that I have to get running again so that I can cut away that
large brush pile that you've seen right next to the build in a few videos, it's a fire hazard. My
chainsaw is bogging down and won't go full rpm. I've replaced the plug, cleaned the air filter,
and put in 100% gas with the proper mixture of oil and it still boggs down and doesn't run
full rpm. I have to spend time and get inside it and see what's up.

Anyway, I'm excited about putting my first beam together and getting it up and level. I don't think
I really need to glue it together, do you? It'll be nailed and screwed and also laying on top of those
posts and connected to the 2x6 floor joists at their tops so I don't see how there could be any danger
of them coming apart.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 14, 2016, 04:25:24 AM
Thursday - April 14th, 2016

Got the 2x6x12 footers to do the beams...ready to go!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160414_071824_zpseidbsssd.jpg&hash=b1d4f44b13b1be05ca28786978832526)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on April 14, 2016, 08:57:40 AM
My simple rule is that all chainsaw problems are carburetor problems.  Unless the fuel tank is empty! :)

A little cleaning of the carb should do wonders.  A carb rebuild kit is probably available.  A little how-to is here: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/clean-echo-cs-400-carburetor-102512.html
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on April 14, 2016, 09:04:05 AM
I wouldn't glue it, just nail according to the IRC guidance.  The 2012 version is available at: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_6_sec002.htm

Item 30 of TABLE R602.3(1) FASTENER SCHEDULE FOR STRUCTURAL MEMBERS says 10d nails 16" on center, staggered.  Just be sure that all splices are supported by a post.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 14, 2016, 01:56:50 PM
Thursday - April 14th, 2016

Appricate it ChugiakTinkerer!

Yes, I ended up using 12 footer 2x6's and all 'staggered' joints are on top of a post. Here
is a short video of beam #1...it was heavy but not too heavy:

https://youtu.be/OAysvY4w9J8
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 14, 2016, 04:38:32 PM
Thursday - April 14th, 2016

I'm glad I work close to Lowe's. I'm able to go there during my 1/2 hour lunch break and
get 2x6x12 footers!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on April 15, 2016, 07:02:56 AM
That beam looks manageable by one.  I'm building my front and back decks as part of the 16x28 house, so we're looking at a 44' beam, built up from 4 2x10 16' PT.  I'm afraid to do the math on how much that will weigh!

Good job not hitting the car. :D
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 15, 2016, 07:36:33 AM
Friday - April 15th, 2016

Did a nice video about installing my first beam this morning:

https://youtu.be/noqbwPNbbz0
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 15, 2016, 02:07:21 PM
Friday - April 15th, 2016

Got beam #1 up and into position, ready to mark the posts for cutting:

https://youtu.be/vaoiI0Pqso8

Another video of the same, a little more explaining:

https://youtu.be/n3rhPQDwwjg
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 16, 2016, 05:14:12 PM
Saturday - April 16th, 2016

Got Beam number one all situated except for the carriage bolt installation in each gusset. I'm
very pleased with the way it turned out and it seems very sturdy. I got it all nice and level too!

I did many videos today and am in the process of uploading them. I ran into a few different
situations, problems, had some new ideas, etc. that I'd like to share with you. I think I have
about 7 videos for today so stay tuned, I'll get 'em uploaded asap:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160416_173952_zpsfaii8ksa.jpg&hash=1e17dbae6fb10a96b7c868f0bb161875)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 17, 2016, 09:00:11 AM
Sunday - April 17th, 2016

Finished installing carriage bolts to each gusset, 2 on each side:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160417_112643_zpsywaoxfce.jpg&hash=eea4536c9cb1a163eee83f8b9aabec4d)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 17, 2016, 04:52:21 PM
Cool... its coming along... maybe not a dance, but at least a little shuffle is in order.   [cool]
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 17, 2016, 06:10:40 PM
Sunday - April 17th, 2016

Saturday was setting beam one and I created a bunch of videos about the process:

Saturday: Part 1
https://youtu.be/TodmVwNpDgI

Saturday: Part 2
https://youtu.be/2hrgnF4UJ8I

Saturday: Part 3:
https://youtu.be/i2DS_4hH2-k

Saturday: Part 4:
https://youtu.be/ldcay7eEWhk

Saturday: Part 5 (About Levels):
https://youtu.be/qHHmy76VpAI

Saturday: Part 6
https://youtu.be/CyRW1YVkgDo

Saturday: Part 7
https://youtu.be/qDKjkRN9RYU
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 18, 2016, 07:47:06 AM
Monday - April 18th, 2016

Just a pic of my beam notes.

My posts are not exactly the same from one row to the other. They
are only off by a little bit but I had to measure to get exact locations to where the staggered
joints will lay right in the middle of the post and also the end of the 2nd beam must be diagonally
checked for squareness.

In order to make the second beam perfectly diagonally squared I added 4 inches to each end of
the 2nd beam, each end is 4" longer than the first beam. This way I can take a final diagonal
measurement once I lay the staggered joints over the posts. Then I can cut a little bit off of each
end to achieve 'perfection'.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160418_113701_zpsjmewleeu.jpg&hash=8c34c069911e8442c2a92f54cd084292)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 18, 2016, 09:15:41 AM
AJ not following WHY there is a difference.  If you have used batter boards set up to run two rows of post they should be parallel.  Then go up the string line for the post position and insert a stick pin through the string on both sides it would give you the distance from one post to the other.  Remove the string line and pins from the batter boards.  Dig the holes for the post.  Then temporarily set the post.  Reattach the string line to the batter boards.  Go back and reattach the stick pins.  The string line on the outside of the post length wise will give you a perfect parallel set of post.  Then by measuring up the string line and inserting pins at the same intervals will give you the exact post spacing on each side. Providing you start at the same end and offset the pins on the same side of the post 1-3/4" to hit dead center of a 3-1/2" post. Plumb, Brace and pour.  Note to self.  I never take down my batter boards until I reach the point of no return and the last post is permanent.  Often re-string off of board to check as I go.  I use drywall screws to set the ends of the string lines to the boards.  You can move them without throwing the board out of line if hammering nails.  Once they are perfect diagonal I leave the screws in place. Taking the string off/on as needed.

The spacing should be the same from post to post on opposing sides.  The beam make up should hit the beam joint over the post on each side.  If you decide to switch beam splice orientation it would be the same distance/location except on opposite ends.

In viewing some of your videos I noticed that you were having problems cutting the post tops.  Not uncommon but the solution is simple.  Once you have the horizontal level line establishing the beam position on each post reach for your "speed square".  Set the square against the post below your line what ever the offset is on your circular saw.  Letting the shoe of your saw ride against the square edge make your first cut from one side to the other.  You will have to make a multiple cut given the thickness.  Move to the opposite corner and reposition the square again as before with the exception you will allow the blade to fit partially into the slot you cut the first time while the saw is off.  Once it is there then slide the square up until it rest against the shoe as before. Hold the square tight against the post and make the corresponding cut.  If your saw is set 90 deg from your saw shoe then you should have a clean cut.  Sawzall will never give you a clean cut in your application.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: pmichelsen on April 18, 2016, 11:42:09 AM
Another option I've done when I had to cut a lot of posts, was to make a jig that slips around the post and clamps into place. The last one I made I even got a little fancy and had two layers, a thin 1/4" layer that aligned with my line and a wider 3/4" layer that aligns with the shoe on my circular saw. Once it's clamped just run the saw all the way around and you have a perfect cut.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 18, 2016, 12:09:30 PM
Another option I've done when I had to cut a lot of posts, was to make a jig that slips around the post and clamps into place. The last one I made I even got a little fancy and had two layers, a thin 1/4" layer that aligned with my line and a wider 3/4" layer that aligns with the shoe on my circular saw. Once it's clamped just run the saw all the way around and you have a perfect cut.

Was helping a neighbor cut some 6X6 with the square.  Couldn't get a good match from one side to the other.  Come to find out his saw shoe was not set to the blade and kept wondering off.  Someone dropped his saw.  ;D  I have cut a lot of 6X6's and the square works good with only one problem.  The depth of cut.  Have to finish the 3/4 X 3/4" center with a hand saw.  I tried several years ago transferring the line around the post.  Too much room for error in my opinion and didn't seem to always meet up.  Yep there a trick to everything and a tool to use with them. ;) 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 18, 2016, 02:12:37 PM
Here is ReciProMate, it's what I was talking about in one of the previous videos:

https://youtu.be/YEcsPzsvJbk
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 18, 2016, 02:57:08 PM
Here is ReciProMate, it's what I was talking about in one of the previous videos:


The reciprocating saw was designed primarily as a demolition tool.  Some have adapted it to new construction but it does have limitations especially when you need accurate level or straight cuts.  I guess you found that out as demonstrated in your video with the gouging and unevenness. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 18, 2016, 03:27:36 PM
Yes John, the saws-all vibrates through a cut like crazy and the blade bends easily too.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 19, 2016, 08:15:23 AM
Tuesday - April 19th, 2016

I have a question about the connection of the floor joist to the beams. I can use a hurricane tie like the
picture below but are there other methods, other types and shapes of ties, or simpler methods? How did
people do it before hurricane ties?

These are 0.71 cents each at Lowes:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FHurricanTieLowes_zps83nfv5go.jpg&hash=013a59ffbb1d3bc1d2a2e3d2f38bfd69)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 19, 2016, 08:53:22 AM
AJ that looks to be a Simpson H1 Hurricane Tie.  Not sure exactly what might be code for you but this is normally a Beam /Joist tie.  They also make a single sided hurricane tie which is a H2.5 but you would have to install 2 per connection even if it is allowed.  What they used to do.  Toenail mostly but then again we don't use handsaws anymore either.  Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and go the extra mile ($$$$$$) to insure that it will do the job.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 19, 2016, 09:27:59 AM
Thank you John,

Yes, all I would have to spend to get all those hurricane ties is around 30 bucks...that's not bad.

Still raining here near Tulsa Oklahoma, supposed to be sunshine tomorrow. I'm ready to get after
beam number two! I'm really excited about getting those floor joists upright.

I plan to use Advantech sub flooring from Lowes:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_85795-1169-S-16596PC_0__?productId=50126556

It's $27.97 for a 4x8 sheet of 23/32'nds thick. I'll need around 10 sheets or less of it so that's
around $300 bucks. Advantech can get wet day after day, month after month and not get messed up. I
should know, I used it on my last 20x30 build and it was exposed through the winter.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 19, 2016, 09:32:30 AM
If you double the twist tie (H2.5's and similar) do it from opposite sides of the beam to spread out the damage, somewhere they warn about doubling them and splitting. The H1 gives about 4oo lbs uplift and the same laterally in the plane of the diamond, the twist is about 350 lbs uplift and little lateral.

One way to tie things is a 2x2 or 2x4... or 2x whatever, nailed or bolted vertically between beam and joist. a 2x4 nailed flat to the face of the beam and running up alongside of the joist, nailed through the joist into the edge of the 2x4. 5 nails @ 3.5x.131 into each member would be similar to the H1 in uplift and better in out of plane lateral than a thin steel plate... not everything new is better. I don't know that it is cheaper if you chop up 2x4's but I usually have that stuff laying around... and a gun is more fun than a hanger.

More to others reading. When a joist cantilevers over a beam it is supposed to be blocked between joists over the beam. If you think about how a joist would try to lay over at that support as the outboard end gets pushed down you'll understand the concern. I don't get excited if the joists or rafters or whatever, is cantilevering a short distance, is relatively shallow and the loads are not large. As the cantilevered member gets deeper and the overhang gets longer, that blocking becomes important, as does an engineer.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 19, 2016, 07:52:15 PM
Thank you Don,

Those are excellent points you've mentioned. I cantilever over my beam by 2 feet, I don't know,
maybe I should put wood in between my joists right above the beams - the weight of the wall is
out there too so I guess it could only be a good thing.

I also really like the idea of using 2x4's instead of hurrican ties to support the joists to the beams.

Hopefully the sun will be out tomorrow and I'll get beam 2 started!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 20, 2016, 02:17:30 AM
Code limits the cantilever to the depth of the joist without engineering. The reason there is another phenomenon, horizontal shear. Hold the binding and opposite edge of a phone book and bend it, watching the pages slide past one another as it bends. This is similar to the shearing action along the grain of a beam under that type of load. For that reason, when you cross over the code limit it is a good idea to have the plan reviewed.

I tilled dust yesterday, hopefully we can trade a little moisture soon.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 20, 2016, 02:14:56 PM
Wednesday - April 20th, 2016

Today I cut all 6 tops of the posts for beam #2. They are a touch rough at the top
but I'll 'edit' them a little here and there. Tomorrow I'll screw and nail beam 2 together,
place it on top of these posts, and then do my gusset work.

https://youtu.be/zQ-tdd4vm4E

I noticed that one of my post concretes have cracked...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160420_133719_zpswyqyhehh.jpg&hash=cacf36e08efb9e6168eb24fa8f21559f)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on April 21, 2016, 09:39:04 AM
I noticed that one of my post concretes have cracked...

Do you think it was a mixture issue? What's your plan for it?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 21, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
Thanks azgreg,

I'm not sure if it was a mixing issue as far as thr cracked concrete is concerned. I don't know just
yet what I should do about it but I'm studying the situation daily. Maybe I can get some kind
of circular band like a massive hose clamp kind of deal and pour something in the crack (if
it's large enough) and then clamp around it. I realize that water can make its way into
any cracks and that's not a good thing.

Thanks again azgreg, I'll let you know what I find out.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 21, 2016, 02:10:36 PM
Thursday - April 21st, 2016

Got beam #2 up and a few gussets in place. Will hopefully bolt it all up tomorrow:

Here's a video:

https://youtu.be/Yyog9kDua8M
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 21, 2016, 04:13:31 PM
Thursday - April 21st, 2016 (The day the Red Baron was killed in combat at 25 years old)

A picture of the beams for our 14x24 CountryPlan:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160421_131643_zpsu1e2smp5.jpg&hash=61c480bccdecff9d2614bd0ad6c69fc7)

And here's a very interesting article about why a post should never be surrounded by concrete.
(Something I wish I saw a little earlier). Picture first and then the link. The first post is the way
it should be, the second is the way it shouldn't be  d*:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2Fcollage-1024x512_zpscgka4bcy.jpg&hash=6999c727f7e8c14ef96989040dd2dc12)

http://www.temmelsiding.com/2013/04/why-deck-posts-should-not-be-set-in-concrete/
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 22, 2016, 03:30:44 PM
Quote
The first post is the way it should be

That is true if there is something bracing the deck that post is connected to, a house. 

Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 22, 2016, 04:24:53 PM
Friday - April 22nd, 2016
Carriage Bolts for Beam: Price Comparison
https://youtu.be/WKxBng9JfAs
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 22, 2016, 04:34:43 PM
That is true if there is something bracing the deck that post is connected to, a house.


Yes, note that the article that was linked is referring to deck posts... not piers that support a building. A deck is an add-on to a house.  A house is not a deck. Construction details for building a deck can not be simply transferred to the building of a house.


If a horizontal force is applied to the top of the post that is nailed to the metal post base, the nails that secure the metal to the lower end of the post will not prevent the post top from moving sideways. Tilting, if you will.  You may have seen references made here and there to how certain methods can create hinges. The lower end of a post sitting on a metal post base is one such hinge.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 22, 2016, 05:20:38 PM
Note: regarding the carriage bolts. The carriage bolts pictured are electro-plated. Electro-plated fasteners are not approved for use with PT wood. Premature corrosion and possible failure is the problem.

IRC Section R317.3.1 Fasteners for preservative-treated wood, states (http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_3_sec017.htm?bu2=undefined)...
"Fasteners, including nuts and washers, for preservative-treated wood shall be of hot-dipped, zinc-coated galvanized steel, stainless steel, silicon bronze or copper. Coating types and weights for connectors in contact with preservative-treated wood shall be in accordance with the connector manufacturer’s recommendations. In the absence of manufacturer’s recommendations, a minimum of ASTM A 653 type G185 zinc-coated galvanized steel, or equivalent, shall be used. "

There are some exceptions to the rule listed on the linked page.


A general FYI on carriage bolts... Most carriage bolts are threaded full length. That reduces the effective diameter to the diameter measured at the bottom of the thread.  A hex head bolt has the threads only at the end. A properly sized hex head bolt will have the full sized shank diameter almost all the way through the pieces being secured.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 22, 2016, 06:00:51 PM
Excellent points Don - thank you!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 22, 2016, 07:23:49 PM
Friday - April 22nd, 2016

One final video of the day.

Within this video I talk about some thoughts and considerations, things I should have done, things I did that I shouldn't have...etc.
I won't go into long explanations of why I did things the way I did, whether wrong or right, I'm just mentioning some thoughts
and some of ideas using my own logic...whether wrong or right.

I'm all done now with both beams, carriage bolts and all. I would like to mention one good thing about those carriage bolts. I
felt the flex back and forth in a perpendicular direction of the beam when I tried to jiggle and move the beam. I could feel it
flex a little bit, not much. Then, after I put the bolts in and tightened them, I tried it again and it's 'stiff as a board' (a little
pun intended). Here's the video:

https://youtu.be/gODdQXVI12M
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 23, 2016, 05:22:13 PM
Saturday - April 23rd, 2016

Today the wife and I took our Tandem bicycle and got a nice ride in on a great bike path in Tulsa. Came
home and screwed in gusset screws:

https://youtu.be/i63kMINS2QE

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160423_185726_zpsucnepzzm.jpg&hash=8bfb040651c83b6735d2f2b4ee86c8e5)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 24, 2016, 04:33:42 AM
Sunday - April 24th, 2016

I have a question about the underlayment of my floor joists.

I have a bunch of 3/8" plywood that measures 2'x8' exactly. I'm thinking that I could put them on the bottom
of my floor joists and then I could put insulation into those floor cavities and then put my 23/32" Advantech flooring
on top of that. The Advantech cost $27.97 each at Lowes. Does this sound like a good idea? Here's a pic of my plywood:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160424_081407_zpsvlwnfwpv.jpg&hash=65cd50ce87c0025f964eb88401157377)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 24, 2016, 05:16:37 AM
Advantec sub flooring is good. Insulation in the floor is good. 3/8" plywood under is good.

How good is your luck with weather forecasts?  If you work from bottom up there is the danger of having rain before the top is all buttoned up. And then trusting that the Advantec joints are water tight if it rains before the shell is dried in.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: nailit69 on April 24, 2016, 05:33:17 AM
You might want to shop around for that 3/4" subfloor.  I was going to use Advantech but my supplier didn't carry it (although he could order it) and I substituted for an in stock "Tolko mill" product instead which was only $15 a sheet and is just as good unless you plan on leaving it exposed to weather for long periods.   

I also priced out T1-11 for my siding, it came in around $1500... 7/16" OSB and 8" channel cedar siding came in at $1200 and it's a far superior building method than "single wall" construction... $500 in savings just on subfloor and siding .

Advantech is a great product... i've used it for years and it's never failed to impress but if you're trying to save a buck or two... take it anywhere you can.

I might hold off on insulating until you're sure it won't get wet... if you do insulate, be sure to glue the ends and the groove of the subfloor and that'll help keep the water out.  I'd also ventilate the 3/8" with a row of continuous vent strip on ea. end  of your joists to provide a little airflow.
   
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 24, 2016, 06:40:10 AM
Thank you MountainDon, those are things I didn't think of just yet.

Thank you also nailit69. I do choose to use Advantech because I believe my floor will be exposed
for a lengthy time, I'm trying to build my place everyday but there's days when I run out of wood
and just have to wait.

Nailit69, I'm not sure what you meant when you mentioned ventilating the 3/8" plywood with a row of
continuous vent strip on each end of my joists.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 24, 2016, 07:01:04 AM
Nail a strip of screen (to keep out small insects) with an overlay (underlay?) of 1/4" or smaller hardware cloth (to keep out rodents) under the joists at each outer end or along the beams.  I am not sure if it is necessary. We don't vent our wall insulation. We do vent attics and roofs as the upper area is where warm air and moisture is driven.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: nailit69 on April 24, 2016, 10:25:50 AM
The Advantech is probably the way to go... if my place was going to be exposed over the winter i'd have gone with it too but I should have mine covered by Labor Day.

@MountainDon...  I was thinking venting if it's going to get wet, otherwise I don't usually vent a floor or wall.  It could even be covered up once it was dried in and screening it only to keep the critters out in the meantime.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 24, 2016, 12:04:02 PM
Sunday - April 24th, 2016

Fixing my Ford Festiva and then I plan to sell my other Ford Festiva so that I
can get more wood...just trying to keep building.

https://youtu.be/dFvd50KZlU0
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 24, 2016, 12:42:15 PM
Quote
@MountainDon...  I was thinking venting if it's going to get wet, otherwise I don't usually vent a floor or wall. 

Right.  I am reluctant to install insulation in the floor before the bldg is dried in. We experienced way too much rain between laying the subfloor and having the roof dry.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 24, 2016, 02:57:16 PM
Good point Don, I see what you mean.

The one thing I think about is that if I install my insulation now, before I put my subfloor on, then I can place
the insulation in from the top and not from the bottom. I realize that I'd have to install the plywood from the bottom
but putting insulation in from the top seems easier than from the bottom.

I have a really nice massive tarp that I can always cover the floor with so that'll help. And using Advantech will
greatly increase my chances of weather NOT ruining my floor.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: nailit69 on April 25, 2016, 12:34:48 AM
I have a really nice massive tarp that I can always cover the floor with so that'll help. And using Advantech will
greatly increase my chances of weather NOT ruining my floor.

I've seen that Advantech left outdoors and exposd to the elements for over a year and other than some discoloration it's just fine.  Probably not intended to be left to the weather but good to know it can hold up if necessary.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 26, 2016, 09:52:04 AM
Tuesday - April 26th, 2016

Covered up beams with a bunch of spare 3/8's plywood that I have. There's a lot of talk about
tornadoes here near Tulsa, Oklahoma today. Now though it seems the forecast has changed for
the better...a little bit.

I also setup our 200 gallon water container 'temporaily' for our rain catchment system, more pics
of that to come soon.

Here's a video of how I covered my beams from the storm:

https://youtu.be/v0v1VdOOOn4
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 26, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
Right.  I am reluctant to install insulation in the floor before the bldg is dried in. We experienced way too much rain between laying the subfloor and having the roof dry.

I will have to agree with MountainDon on insulating at this early stage.  Advantech is a great product but it is not waterproof.  I had it at my cabin exposed for 8 months with snow laying on it part of the time.  Water did leak into the basement at the seams onto the underlying joist and cavity where the insulation would normally be put.   Water will devastate your insulation and it's R value when it is wet and compressed.  Yes you can tarp it but once the first wall is erected there is no way to seal the floor off.  Then subsequent walls and it is useless. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: rich2Vermont on April 26, 2016, 02:14:15 PM
I too have to agree about the insulation. See my build: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9422.msg135580#msg135580 .
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: nailit69 on April 26, 2016, 02:31:24 PM
Ya... it's just not a good idea to insulate that early in the game.  There's no real reason to do it unless it won't be accessible later.  I would only insulate any cavities that won't be able to be done later.  I would also try and avoid situations that will create unaccessible/uninsulated spaces during the framing process like not using "C-channels" (2x6/2x4/2x6) on exterior wall ties or interior walls for that matter... I use a "California Corner" L (2x6/2x6 on Ext. 2x4/2x6 on Int.) to nail other walls to, it provides adequate nailing, allows full access behind and it saves a few studs here and there.

When I lived in Oregon, during the summer they would plumb, install hvac, and insulate before subfloor.  Great idea in theory but after a summer storm necessitated the removal of all the insulation and flexible insulated ductwork from under the floor in 5 or 6 houses that were under construction, that practice was halted. 

I also wouldn't put any plastic sheeting/vapor barrier on the floors or walls either... a lot of those homes that were sealed up with plastic in the 80' are the ones that i'm constantly going in and repairing extensive rot and black mold... just a bad idea, it traps moisture and causes problems and I rarely, if ever see it on a home without poly.  I wouldn't do it on my own place but if the customer insists, well then...! 

A house needs to breathe a little bit... I'd do Tyvek with Vycor and tin flashing on the windows, sprayfoam around the windows and any penetrations and then insulate the hell out of it.  And then apply the siding of your choice.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 26, 2016, 02:49:20 PM
nailit69...could you please explain the 'California Corner'.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: nailit69 on April 26, 2016, 03:19:01 PM
nailit69...could you please explain the 'California Corner'.

It's just an L... for an exterior wall where an interior intersects and ties in just nail an L together and set the flat 2x6 behind the intersecting wall with the other 2x6 to the side, it provides backing on both sides and leaves access from one side.  For an interior wall tie use a 2x4 and nail it to the edge of the 2x6 and you get the same result... works in most situations but not all... adjust accordingly.

That's also how you tie your corners together, maybe watch a couple of youtube vids for some tips... framing isn't really that hard once you understand it.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on April 26, 2016, 03:21:10 PM
nailit69...could you please explain the 'California Corner'.

http://blog.armchairbuilder.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/California-Corner1.jpg
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: nailit69 on April 26, 2016, 03:26:01 PM
@AzGreg... Exactly ;)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 26, 2016, 04:06:17 PM
I got it! I plan to use 2x4 walls.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 26, 2016, 06:19:32 PM
2x4 walls.

? why?  much more energy efficient with 2x6?  Stay cooler in the OK summers
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 27, 2016, 02:11:32 PM
As Don suggested above, I do believe that I will go ahead and go with the 2x6's for my build. I will also wait
to insulate the floor until I have the roof on.

A little update about the way I covered my beams using those 'spare' plywood sheets, it worked out great.
They kept the rain off of the beam and even kept a lot of the piers dry.

I'm going to start bracing each pier with two 4x4's (one on each side) at a 45 degree angle from the bottom
of each pier up the the underside of the beam. I'm going to be looking around here to see how most people
attach these. Do I simply nail them in place?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 27, 2016, 06:07:31 PM
If you're like most people you do. One engineering professor said that a typical kneebrace was something to knock you unconscious as the deck collapses. They are compression members, they are resisting the sideways load of the structure above when the wind hits it. Think about that, a nail isn't going to resist much more than about 100 lbs. Lock them in opposed and solid.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 27, 2016, 06:35:44 PM
I think you posted this in the past Don. This would be a great way to do my
bracing right? The main thing I think of is to remove as little material from the
4x4 post (each side) as possible.

What is the best way to make a cut like that in the 4x4's?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2Fpostbrace_zps01mfzjgo.jpg&hash=84534195ee770288346d1b00ff5905fc)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 28, 2016, 02:11:18 AM
That's one way, I had forgotten posting that. I've done that in 6x6 using a skillsaw on each side and across the bottom then sawzall and chisel to clean it up. When meeting from both sides "sneak up" on the line, you can always remove more but you can't remove less. The "table"is usually ~1" wide but you're in a pickle with a 4x4... it might be better to figure out how to use heavy inturned ear hangers on the post and drive the block in between at the beam last. Very often heavy timber work is sized by how much meat you need to leave after doing the joinery.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 28, 2016, 07:35:28 AM
Using this hardware would be good for my bracing...correct?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FKBS1Z_callout_zpspsjmok6c.jpeg&hash=cc900e46f83ffdc7c6a923cc973f287f)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 28, 2016, 06:52:04 PM
I was thinking something along the lines of an HUC44 or similar concealed flange hanger.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 29, 2016, 06:49:02 AM
Friday - April 29th, 2016

Thanks Don,

I can't figure out how the HUC44 can accept a 4x4 angular brace because this flange hanger is
at a 90 degree...unless the ends of the brace are cut at the two angles needed to rest within the
hanger?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F51Y5-FL4wiL._SY400__zpsvaleihp7.jpg&hash=cfe91b2e693ee5950ddab1ee10441264)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F41zDQ53OC-L._SY400__zpsdxm4zj0d.jpg&hash=780a0719a7db2ed937e584cd7c9353d4)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 29, 2016, 02:47:39 PM
Friday - April 29th, 2016

I drew a little drawing of what I'm thinking might work for my bracing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160429_183733_zpsyur0icfx.jpg&hash=2c8f46c95c35d83df83870482db504f2)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 29, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
The 2x4's are fine if they go to the concrete... or the 4x4 can run to the concrete for that matter. Yes on the hanger, make a level seat cut and a plumb post cut.

Stronger than the steel plates or hangers, plywood triangles covering the entire brace, post, beam and nailed very well. It becomes the rigid brace, the wood is keeping the large plywood triangle from buckling under load.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 29, 2016, 03:30:56 PM
If you run the braces down to the cement, then the other ends might be worth while touching, like this.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1034.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa429%2Fadamrobillard%2FPostBrace1_zpsqdf28mxj.jpg&hash=4f260b432799fef2a2d6c97ead1f4bba) (http://s1034.photobucket.com/user/adamrobillard/media/PostBrace1_zpsqdf28mxj.jpg.html)

Then you can make plywood connections to connect everything together, something like this.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1034.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa429%2Fadamrobillard%2FPostBrace2_zpssrxixmlc.jpg&hash=3116135b574d6231931025e9fe9d2f0a) (http://s1034.photobucket.com/user/adamrobillard/media/PostBrace2_zpssrxixmlc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 29, 2016, 03:55:41 PM
Hey Adam, that really sounds like a plan... Thank you!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on April 29, 2016, 04:03:49 PM
Do make those plumb and level cuts on the framing though, jam together bearing surfaces rather than crushable points. I was actually thinking of ply covering post, beam and braces in one triangle but this works if well nailed. You're into treated ply... $ and watch the quality, be picky.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 29, 2016, 06:42:39 PM
I like the idea of putting plywood within the whole triangular area. The picture above makes me
think that water and moisture could get down into those 'plywood cups' (even though it's under
the house). Also, knowing that makes me realize that it could cost a lot more money using the
treated plywood. I may just use the 2x4 to the concrete method.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 29, 2016, 06:51:12 PM
I like the idea of putting plywood within the whole triangular area.

Just to be clear, the plywood would be nailed over the face of the pier, beam and angled brace.


This is similar to the remedial or post construction work I did on our piers. Each gable end had a wall built between the piers. Framed with short studs on 16" centers and sheathed fully on both sides.  Then on the long sides the same technique was built between each end and second pier.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 30, 2016, 02:40:39 AM
You're right, I thought about that later on also... I've never done this before so it was just an idea.  For sure I would go for a plan that one of the more experienced builders have used in the past. 

I wonder if you can do a kind of truss system with 2x4's... Maybe ask Medeek if something could apply here.   :)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 30, 2016, 07:19:10 AM
Saturday - April 30th, 2016

I've begun to do my bracing. I don't own a table saw so my cuts on those 4x4's are done
with my circular saw, not an easy task. I'm not sure how I'm going to gusset these braces
just yet. My choices for gusset material are treated 2x4's or 3/8" untreated plywood. Almost
all of my gussets will be more than 18" off of the ground so maybe I can get away with untreated
stuff.

Also, some piers are really tall and I don't want to go all the way down to the concrete with the
braces at most places so therefore I'll make little level cuts at the bottoms of the braces where
I'll try to get them to rest on the 2x4 that'll be nailed to the inside of the piers.

Here's a video and a pic:

https://youtu.be/CwhcECMEesI

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160430_105151_zpsc5ajr9ky.jpg&hash=388760dfb50aeac7cc016405a0610f19)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 30, 2016, 08:47:21 AM
Looking pretty good.
I think Don_P mentioned not to have the points together though because they can crush.
I think the idea is to cut an angle (like 2 45 degrees for example)
(I added 1 extra piece here for fun)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1034.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa429%2Fadamrobillard%2FPostBrace3_zpsych2a7zq.jpg&hash=5f21a8088ea1574832f41b219c618786) (http://s1034.photobucket.com/user/adamrobillard/media/PostBrace3_zpsych2a7zq.jpg.html)

I suppose you can then add the plywood, or maybe 2 pieces of your 2' width boards could also work like this.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1034.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa429%2Fadamrobillard%2FPostBrace4_zpsxv99kqnk.jpg&hash=a23cc2f060d9c30d9e85415c02b9eb2c) (http://s1034.photobucket.com/user/adamrobillard/media/PostBrace4_zpsxv99kqnk.jpg.html)

No pockets for rain to catch, it ties everything together, allows a point of access underneath... again, I have never done this, just an idea.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 30, 2016, 08:51:17 AM
I believe the gusset material should be 3/4 inch plywood, not 3/8.   We'll see what Don_P thinks.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 30, 2016, 08:55:35 AM
I am more thinking for him to be able to use the material he already has on-hand.  Would doubling up on the thickness be the same as using the 3/4?  So two 3/8" plied together to form the 3/4"? 

Edit:  Could maybe even stagger the joints to help any loss of bracing due to that joint.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 30, 2016, 10:19:01 AM
Thanks Adam and Don,

My post gussets (the ones with the carriage bolts going through them) are in the way of me being able to put a
whole plate of plywood over the area. You can see that by taking a close look at the above pic/s. I'll have to cut
my plates in a fashion where they'll cover the most area.

Coming right up is a video of me cutting the angles on my 4x4 braces. I don't own a table saw and have to use
my circular saw for everything. I'm trying to do the best I can of course but it's pretty tricky. Be back soon!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on April 30, 2016, 10:23:16 AM
My suggestion would be to use old cardboard (like from boxes) and that way you can tape new pieces and cut it to the perfect shape for each brace.  Once it's perfect, then you transfer that to the wood and make the actual cut.  That same piece is then used to start measuring for the next.  Takes a bit of time but there should be a lot less waste, and trial and error afterwards.  Cutting cardboard with scissors is easier that cutting a 4x4 with a circular saw.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 30, 2016, 10:47:27 AM
Saturday - April 30th, 2016

Here's a video showing how I cut my 4x4 treated brace angles...I go like a here so:

https://youtu.be/jo-ZfWnbwys
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on April 30, 2016, 12:26:39 PM
Re: two layers of 3/8... not nearly the same as 3/4 as the two thinner layers act independently of each other.  Sorry, I'm not thinking interms of using what is on hand, but using what is better suited for the task.

Re: the bolted on 'scabs' used to reinforce beam to post being in the way of plywood gussets. If the gussets are notched to fit around those much of their strength disappears. Better solution is to remove the scabs / 2x bracing, install the plywood gussets and reinstall the scabs / bracing. Nail the plywood gussets at least every 3 inches with at least 8D common, hot dip galvanized nails. They need nailing on all sides to have strength. A notched out section to clear around a scab / brace leaves a weak unsecured area. That'll be the first part to fail if the structure gets tested by big winds or earth movement.

The unbolting, etc could be avoided with better planning before getting to this stage.



FYI, the videos don't get watched when I am away from wi-fi... phone data costs too much. And there are some viewers who probably never see them as they are one the 3% of Americans who still use dial up. Even some of the still images have file sizes that are slow to load over dial up.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 30, 2016, 04:30:02 PM
Saturday Eve - April 30th, 2016

Thank you again Don! Removing those gussets with the carriage bolts and then putting a plywood gusset behind them
is a great idea.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on April 30, 2016, 04:37:20 PM
Saturday - April 30th, 2016

End of Day: Got most of the bracing installed on beam row 1. Here's a picture and then a short video:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160430_200006_zpsyjailzzx.jpg&hash=deb006c69bd644489cd7efb3808e52fa)

https://youtu.be/51OaPNIwuvQ
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 02, 2016, 02:06:07 PM
Monday - May 2nd, 2016

Started to put the gussets over the braces. Here's pics and vids:

https://youtu.be/iu6hrbk0xeA

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160502_134427_zpsuhyjf55t.jpg&hash=a5924db1945ff09f3c66aa4566f0d0ec)

https://youtu.be/c2NdG63wdYY
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 03, 2016, 12:46:25 PM
Tuesday - May 3rd, 2016

Day 3 of beam gusset work:

https://youtu.be/TeyGDlsbqgA

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160503_121705_zps9sbg08m9.jpg&hash=c76dc06cf5d8cbdf5248d18241dd71ee)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160503_121717_zpsqyb0olzk.jpg&hash=5f2da713705c94d23bf33a75c9f1c844)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on May 03, 2016, 12:52:30 PM
What's your plan to brace it from beam to beam?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on May 03, 2016, 01:03:29 PM
I can just picture one of these...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.harvard.edu%2Fethicalesq%2Ffiles%2F2008%2F08%2F6a00d8341c816253ef00e55ai0.jpg&hash=5d172ed07d7e0e229bda6d8c0b8bff97)


 :)

As much as this approach is not always considered the best (piers), I am really enjoying this build thread. 
Thanks for sharing all the little details...
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 03, 2016, 02:11:12 PM
Thanks guys!

The floor joists are what braces one beam to the other. Here is the link to what Don's floor joists
look like when they went on top of his beams.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg61571#msg61571
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on May 03, 2016, 02:37:20 PM
If we're going to be linking to my example, let's include this one (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg164063#msg164063) as well...
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on May 03, 2016, 02:41:02 PM
I was thinking along the lines of how drbuilder did on his. His is closer to the height of yours.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12576.0

post #9
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on May 03, 2016, 03:21:44 PM
drbuilder did do a pretty good job of bracing the beams and piers to each other. That may be better bracing than my remedial method of building a shear wall at each end. It would take an engineer to have a more informed opinion. In any event time and materials spent now is easier, much easier, than working under a constructed building.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on May 03, 2016, 03:29:31 PM
When it comes to strength triangles are your friend.  ;D
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 03, 2016, 04:28:31 PM
Wow, those reads were very informative!

I think I will use the same type of bracing that drbuilder did. I'll use a total of 6 4x4's. Two on
each end and 2 in the middle and they'll criss-cross like what was shown.

Thank you again Don and thanks for the link to drbuilder azgreg!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 04, 2016, 09:44:12 AM
Wednesday - May 4th, 2016

Continuing with my bracing and gussets to cover and help support them. There is a picture
below and then a video where I explain how I may criss-cross 4x4's from beam to beam but
I don't think that'll work. I was thinking about mounting them straight, one at the bottom and
one at the top but I'm not sure about that idea.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160504_131246_zpsjz2fzjcf.jpg&hash=2af0bee54a7ad88f37cfde379e5388fe)

https://youtu.be/LqqtPyQeiNQ
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on May 04, 2016, 10:04:07 AM
Anything with parallel or near parallel members are collapsible rectangles or maybe a trapazoid. Triangles, three sides only are the only shape that has built in collapse resistance.   

What I did between piers was build a shear wall. With all the nails around all the edges and to the studs in the center of the field it creates a bunch of virtual triangles. The 3/4 thick plywood resists deforming or buckling.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 04, 2016, 11:37:36 AM
I'm wondering if I put a 4x4 at the top, between beams, and then another one at the bottom and
THEN use 2x's attached to each side of top and bottom 4x4 criss-crossed...or something along them lines.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on May 04, 2016, 05:08:58 PM
Use a 2x4 top and bottom horizontal and 2x4 studs at 16" on center vertically, attach end studs to existing post well. Wrap in plywood and nail well.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 04, 2016, 06:12:26 PM
I see Don_P... (Hey, that rhymes!)

I'll end up with 6 shear walls about 9'8" long and around 2 to 3 feet in height. That sounds very
good and strong, I like the idea. Thank you Don!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on May 05, 2016, 01:58:51 AM
You only need to do it on the outer ends... the floor will transfer the rigidity when you attach the "lid" on the bracing walls.
terminology note, a shear wall is an engineered wall, braced walls is what we are creating.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 05, 2016, 05:15:04 AM
Thanks Don, I'm glad to know that I only have to brace the end posts from beam to beam.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 05, 2016, 09:53:26 AM
Thursday - May 5th, 2016

Continuing with the gusset over the angular braces on my beam 1. Got the
front finished and part of the back:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160505_132715_zps0x5wpa0u.jpg&hash=87445a0f00dda2d6a08f2dc26e39abfa)

https://youtu.be/cF4FLLTrdgE
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 05, 2016, 02:15:27 PM
Thursday - May 5th, 2016

I emailed the Quikrete company a question about the concrete cracking in one of my piers and
asked them what I can do about it.

My 4x4 is almost 3 feet in the ground and the tube sticks out around a foot or so. I first poured
concrete (Quikrete) on top of gravel and around the post in the hole for around 6 to 8 inches and
then I placed the tube on top of that and poured the rest of the concrete to the top of the tube.

Here is a pic of the crack and below it is what the engineer from Quikrete emailed me. Check out
the link to a video showing how to use the product he suggests:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160420_133719_zpswyqyhehh.jpg&hash=cacf36e08efb9e6168eb24fa8f21559f)

Allan,

You will need to go to Home Depot and order our Crack-Pac kit from the Pro Desk.
Please watch the attached video from our website to aid you in your instillation.
Brian Foster

Here's the video:

https://youtu.be/aPPz4jOqsa0
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on May 05, 2016, 04:25:23 PM
Worth a try I guess if its not too pricey...
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 05, 2016, 04:32:10 PM
I looked on Amazon and the injection kit was around $100+. The standard 9oz thingy is around $26.00. I'll
betcha there's probably other cheaper epoxys...don't know yet.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 06, 2016, 01:56:55 PM
Friday - May 6th, 2016

Beam 1 is all done. Here's a pic of the back side, one of my circular saw fix, and then a video:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160506_132404_zpssku9qpox.jpg&hash=aa2f75463c752e83894d52099fc322f9)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160506_114439_zpsvrvwlg6u.jpg&hash=c7ee162834bd9898bc76b10345e0fb83)

https://youtu.be/fLtcykFpU0I
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 07, 2016, 04:42:47 PM
Saturday - May 7th, 2016

Got some bracing done on beam 2:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160507_114810_zpslyegtpzb.jpg&hash=ef1d302fe5f7c556e829cc572ec3d864)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: pmichelsen on May 08, 2016, 05:53:28 AM
Looks like a good start, do you plan to go back through and add additional nails/screws? Right now your plywood panels look a little light on fasteners.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 08, 2016, 02:43:50 PM
Thanks pmichelsen!

Your right, I'm purposely using just a few fasteners (nails and screws) at this time until I have all the
plywood on and then I'm going back through it all and finishing it up. Thank you again for reminding
me because there has been times when I did that and forgot for awhile.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 08, 2016, 03:53:38 PM
Sunday - May 8th, 2016

Worked on finishing the bracing on beam 2 and then begun the plywood gussets:

https://youtu.be/a3wJrL84STU

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160508_111335_zpsjsxcjaax.jpg&hash=272d8fc08aea1bd30aff6e8729a32c71)

https://youtu.be/kqlxmp0ceU8

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160508_182958_zpsfdhx1omp.jpg&hash=90676d0510d1f0f1b607bf39c48dbbc7)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 10, 2016, 05:23:05 AM
Tuesday Morning - May 10th, 2016

I was wondering about the adherence of concrete to wood so I replied to an email that an engineer at the Quikrete company
sent me. I just did it a few minutes ago and will await his response but in the mean time - here is the email question that I sent
him. If anyone else has any information about this subject I would sure appreciate it. Here's the email:


Tuesday Morning - May 10th, 2016

Hi Christopher,

You just sent me an email in reply to a question I had.

I'm wondering about the adherence of quikrete (concrete) to a 4x4 post. Has any testing ever been done in this area revealing the force in pounds that it would take to 'push' a post through a cylinder of concrete (Quik Form Tube)?

The scenario of the test would be something like this:

Take 3 feet of a 12" Quik Form Tube, set it on a flat surface, center a 4x4 treated post that is 6 feet tall in it, fill it with Quikrete (or concrete) and let it cure. Now the only thing holding the post within the concrete is the adhesion to the side walls of the wood.

Now the test:

Set the concrete (with the post sticking out of it) on top of a tall steel cylinder with a hollow 4" diameter hole through it. Now a press begins to push down on the top of the 4x4 post (axial compression) until something fails. Does the 4x4 post snap, does the concrete crack, or does the post eventually just slip right through the cylinder of concrete at a certain pounds per linear foot?

I would be great if there was any information at all about this scenario or anything close to it.

I appreciate it Chris!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on May 10, 2016, 05:48:09 AM
The reply may be interesting, but in the real world it should not matter. That's because the pier should have the lower end resting on a concrete footing that is reinforced with rebar. Usual minimum size 16 x 16 x 8 inches. That pad or lump is placed / poured and let to cure before construction advances.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 10, 2016, 08:54:40 AM
Tuesday - May 10th, 2016

Got a little more done with beam 2, the plywood gussets are at the halfway point of finishing. Then
after that it's on to the end brace walls which will brace one beam to the other.

https://youtu.be/ye1iVQhqQao

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160510_123202_zpsbn7mhry1.jpg&hash=4c46e419b159a171565bb7aa2a73d301)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160510_123129_zpsnnhgg0m0.jpg&hash=4f454dda1f61af9e0772c25948d32b5c)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on May 10, 2016, 04:24:01 PM
There is no adhesion, the dimension of the wood varies with moisture content where the concrete hole does not change size. After the post swells and cracks the concrete it is free to "punch through" if there is insufficient footing. The concrete collar is simply a firm backfill that increases the effective size of the post in the lateral load directions, it should not be considered a bearing for vertical load.

Hold off building the cross brace walls. Layout the floor joists and see if you can get those near the end posts to line up at the posts. Then you can notch and frame the studs to that joist and run the ply onto the joist which is nailed to the floor diaphragm (the advantek) you are putting both planes together on the same member with no other connections in between, better.

Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 10, 2016, 06:08:41 PM
Here is a diagram that I drew that shows how most of my pier holes were done. The drawing is
not proportional and the dimensions are fairly close. The first few pier holes I did had 8 bags of
concrete in them and after the first 3 or so I went down to 4 to 5 bags. I now realize that the
concrete is only stabelizing lateral movement.

As most of you know, this is not the way to do it and this is the wrong way. The posts
should not have been IN the concrete but ON the concrete, I was ignorant, in a hurry, and didn't know
what I was doing. I still don't know a lot but am trying my best and thanking you all for your
patience.

My soil is not just clay down deep in the hole but there is sand in it too which helps a little more. So
each post has a small bearing surface of only 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 on top of gravel at hole bottom.

I'm thinking that I can help the bearing of the beam at each post by attaching vertical 2x4's to the posts
down to the concrete on each side of each post. Would that help? or at this point should I just go with what I got?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160509_202102_zpsgc1ebzpx.jpg&hash=409ca743068170f54c5d1a0ae34696d9)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: bayview on May 10, 2016, 07:47:30 PM

The concrete around one post is already cracking . . .    Setting vertical 2X4’s directly on the concrete may only be a temporary solution.   Additional weight from the cabin and its contents may still try to push the post through the gravel.  The top of the concrete will then bear the total load from the 2X4's.   Is the top of the concrete strong enough? Can it withstand the weight without damage?   

I know that you have gone through a lot of work to get to this point.   And, I’m sorry that I don’t have an easy solution for you.   

/.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 10, 2016, 07:55:40 PM
Thank you bayview, very good points sir.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 11, 2016, 05:38:54 AM
Wednesday - May 11th, 2016

One idea that I have is to create 2 more beams and make them the rim joists. The new beams would
be 2' away from the original beams and they will have 4 piers each 6'8" away from each other using
4x6 posts placed on top of a concrete footing. Each beam will be made up of 2 2x8's with 1/2" plywood
in the middle.

I would first dig the holes and pour the concrete footings (with rebar) and then install all of the floor
joists and then attach the rim joist beams to the ends of the floor joists. Lastly I would cut the posts
to length and then place them into position causing all 4 beams to be touching all floor joists.

Here's the example drawing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160511_092349_zpsh56bqido.jpg&hash=b58f01716bc3fcdb2e65e2adc338a7ef)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Redoverfarm on May 11, 2016, 06:00:58 AM
Wednesday - May 11th, 2016

One idea that I have is to create 2 more beams and make them the rim joists. The new beams would
be 2' away from the original beams and they will have 4 piers each 6'8" away from each other using
4x6 posts placed on top of a concrete footing. Each beam will be made up of 2 2x8's with 1/2" plywood
in the middle.

I would first dig the holes and pour the concrete footings (with rebar) and then install all of the floor
joists and then attach the rim joist beams to the ends of the floor joists. Lastly I would cut the posts
to length and then place them into position causing all 4 beams to be touching all floor joists.

Here's the example drawing:



AL if you are intent on following through might I suggest that you build all the support post and beams and then place your joist on them.  It would be a lot less aggravation than trying to individually fit each post.  You most likely will use a Simpson fastener for the transition from concrete to wood.  After placing the fastener into the concrete just cut your post long enough to reach the top of the existing beams while sitting into that bracket.  Using a "straight" 2X floor joist(laid on edge) you can lay it across your existing beams and mark a line on the post at the bottom of that joist where it intersects the post.  Then from that line measure down the correct width of the 2X8 ( 7-1/4") and mark.  This will be your final cut line that the beam rest upon.   

Yeah you do cut the post twice ( one rough & one final) but chances are you will not use the entire length of the 4X4 anyway since you will not be going to the bottom of your sonotube.  You can remove the post from the bracket which you just temporarily braced and cut the post off while on a set of saw horses or while horizontal using the square and circular saw method better than trying to cut in the vertical position as you once did and ultimately getting a better cut. 
 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on May 11, 2016, 01:35:42 PM
I think the additional posts are a good idea, and it would remove some of the doubt you may have had about the cantilevered joists.
As long as you are going this route, I would also make the bottom of the hole has a large diameter, so the 6" or 8" of footing would have more bearing surface and thus be less prone to sinking later.  Then you sonotubes can be the regular diameter sitting on top of those footings. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 11, 2016, 02:02:32 PM
Wednesday - May 11th, 2016

Thank you for helping me redoverfarm and Adam!

My footings will be large at the bottom of the hole and belled outward down there.

Here is a video of a few choices I have as far as the post base holders:

https://youtu.be/wZUfnprj6jA

And here is a video of my rebar and rebar tools:

https://youtu.be/y48fZohD2Gc
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: bayview on May 11, 2016, 03:53:35 PM
Just a thought . . .

Why not just add two more footings on each of the "new" beams.   For a total of 6 per side . . .    Just as you originally planned.   Abandon the previous work already done and use those materials for your new beams . . .

Your new beams may work out better anyway.   You previously had a 2 foot cantilever using the "old" beams.

/.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 12, 2016, 06:49:50 AM
Thursday - May 12th, 2016

Here is how I plan to do my pier foundation.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FPier_and_Beam_Pic_for_Jerrs_Site_zpsgdxyjpli.jpg&hash=a5227dff16be3603b9f704d9acd3858b)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on May 12, 2016, 02:32:15 PM
So, are you abandoning the existing piers all together?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 12, 2016, 02:44:21 PM
Hi again azgreg!

No, I am not abandoning my existing work. I will be laying my floor joists on all 4 beams.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 22, 2016, 04:39:26 AM
Sunday May 22nd, 2016

As I've mentioned and as shown in the 4th picture above, I'm adding 2 new beams to my build to
compensate for my 'wrong doing'.

Yesterday I dug the first pier hole to beam 3 and completed it. I learned a lot because I've never
used rebar before. I tied the rebar matt together using a rebar twisting tool and that was new
to me also.

My hole ended up being 2 feet by 2 and a half and 22 inches deep. I first made sure all loose
dirt was out of the hole and I padded the bottom of the hole down with an old 4x4. Then I poured
about 2 or 3 inches of concrete into the hole and then set the first matt of rebar down. Then I
filled it with 6" more of concrete and put the 2nd matt down and then filled the base to around
the 12" mark.

I thought I would save money buy cutting a plastic pale and using it for a sonotube so that's what I
did. I set the cut pale on top of the base and filled it to the top. Then I put 3 vertical 22" rebars
into the pale and topped it off. Then I set my anchor bolt into the concrete on top of it all with about
1" of threads showing.

My end result wasn't bad but there were a few things I learned that I'll do differently with the other
pier holes and rebar. I used 6 bags of 80 lb concrete and that was barely enough. I'm not going to
use a pale next time, it's not worth it to go cheap like that plus it wasn't tall enough to stick out of
the ground like it should have been so next time I'll just spend the $12 for a tube and use it.

My anchor bolts have a piece of wood on the top of them to keep them above the concrete and not
sink down in. When I placed the anchor bolt on top of the wet concrete I kind of pushed it down in
a little. I noticed that the top surface of the pier was not as flat as I'd like it to be so next time I'll
try and not use the wooden block and make sure that the top surface is really smooth with no
rocks/gravel sticking out of the concrete. I also didn't use horizontal bracing on the 3 vertical
rebars within the pier like the picture above shows. I guess it wouldn't hurt to do that next time.

As far as the price goes, I calculate that what I'm doing cost around $60 for each hole. I'm adding
2 more bags of concrete to equal 8 bags a hole. Each bag cost $3.95. The tube cost $13, then add
the rebar and I get pretty close to $60.

Here's some pics and vids:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160521_185205_zpsiyegp0mr.jpg&hash=62737275a7f5d16966a6a89406422455)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160521_202313_zpsizc6glhe.jpg&hash=3dc101258cae6dc06388619208511b55)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160521_203837_zps1ft36sek.jpg&hash=605bf49c756cf70135ab9ed704cc01de)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160521_203850_zpskzfq11jm.jpg&hash=f34258d8516aad91ac241db729f39fc0)

https://youtu.be/y48fZohD2Gc

https://youtu.be/uJPfkqm_kBc

https://youtu.be/fLDXJng72gU

https://youtu.be/l6UKNBw-T_w
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 22, 2016, 04:11:59 PM
Sunday - May 22nd, 2016

I am told that I should be watering down the top of the pier for days after the initial pour, it's supposed to help it. By looking at the picture below you can see how rough the top surface is and the indentation left from the wooden block. I will grind it smooth while checking for level. I'll try much harder on my next piers.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160522_165839_zpsv3rlxa9b.jpg&hash=2d794c5693b6c911f06d8eab5fa97b80)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on May 22, 2016, 05:47:52 PM
A standard strip footing 24' long x 8" thick x 16" wide = 32 sacks... that leaves some money for block, a block wall or sections of wall accomplishes the same thing as all that plywood and bracing and does it better. If you turn the corners at the ends and return the block walls or block corner sections on each end back to the existing post line it makes those sections very hard to overturn, they are fairly well braced.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 23, 2016, 03:37:44 AM
Thank you Don_P. That method makes for a very strong foundation.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 24, 2016, 01:14:00 PM
Tuesday - May 24th, 2016

Well, ran into another boulder where a pier is supposed to go. I guess I'll dig around it and see how big it is. Maybe I can get it out of there. The white cross hair shows where the anchor bolt should be.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160524_113102_zpszecby5si.jpg&hash=dae4313848bd98869ae6dd2a04f3d860)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on May 25, 2016, 08:39:26 AM
smack dead center looks like...  if its 5' round and 3' deep.. drill a hole and set a bolt in it.  :)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 25, 2016, 02:13:16 PM
Wednesday - May 25th, 2016

Today I dug and exposed most of the perimeter of the boulder that I've been trying to remove.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160525_132856_zps6xdmuwuv.jpg&hash=6b8a68a7a209c8f4891399f230b34e1c)

https://youtu.be/RiOWcc3uEo0
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 26, 2016, 02:07:23 PM
Thursday - May 26th, 2016

Got a new Stihl 251 WoodBoss Chain saw today, my first Stihl...

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160526_113953_zpsf7maiymw.jpg&hash=3b8ab2cbe7d58c3f06223cd010bbcb7f)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Bearmech on May 27, 2016, 06:07:57 AM
I love my Stihl!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: NathanS on May 27, 2016, 08:36:39 AM
I've got a ~1990 Stihl 026. Pre-EPA standard and an absolute beast.

Don't put ethanol gas in it.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 27, 2016, 12:41:39 PM
Ya, I was told to always put at least 91 octane in it. I used it today and I could tell that the chain was getting dull already
because I was cutting a lot of black jack and oak, big ones too! I'm very pleased with it.

I was wondering, what did they do to the saws after the 'EPA Standard'? Are these new ones not as strong as the old
ones?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on May 27, 2016, 01:30:16 PM
Mine is a HomeLite 14", 35cc...  it's pretty, runs fantastic... but I think it would be faster to use a spoon.  I can get through 1 stump of 4-6" in diameter, then I need to tighten the tensioner and sharpen the blade, otherwise it will smoke like crazy on the next one.  When you have easily 100 of them to do... the job seems never ending. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: NathanS on May 28, 2016, 12:02:08 PM
Ya, I was told to always put at least 91 octane in it. I used it today and I could tell that the chain was getting dull already
because I was cutting a lot of black jack and oak, big ones too! I'm very pleased with it.

I was wondering, what did they do to the saws after the 'EPA Standard'? Are these new ones not as strong as the old
ones?

Nothing is wrong with the new saws. The new mufflers basically de-rate the power of the saw to meet emissions standards. You can modify them by poking a few strategic holes in the muffler and they will run just as good (or better) than pre EPA saws.

Do not modify it until it is out of warranty. And honestly you probably won't need to modify it. The 251 is a good saw with plenty of power.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on May 28, 2016, 04:12:12 PM
I’m curious how high a concrete pier should be above ground level . . .

IMO, the way to look at it is, the piers should only be as high as necessary to provide maintenace clearance under the girders and joists.. OR only enough clearance to prevent the need for using PT for joists... 18" ground to joist bottom (12" for girders). After that height, the length above ground simply lengthens the lever arm and magnifies the result of any force applied laterally to the pier top, as happens when the wind strikes the building side and roof.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on May 28, 2016, 05:34:58 PM
It's actually worse than that. It is not intuitive at all, we look at a post protruding from the ground and we assume that if it does overturn, the point of rotation will be at ground level. The length of the lever in our minds pivots at the ground.
These two sketches show first the point of rotation of an unconstrained post... our case, there is no slab at ground level.as you can see the length of the lever arm is the height above ground plus about 2/3 of the buried depth of the post.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fpostrotation1.jpg&hash=9ce3e89823e29c366bf484a2e0ffff3a)

This is a sketch of a constrained post, there is a slab on grade. This is the situation we think we have;
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fpostrotation2.jpg&hash=525ef342cf52f06e6f4b5312ca4dfbf2)

This gets into the why of part of the building code. Exempt structures are limited to 18" above grade to the top of the floor, this should help explain why. Those authors or the engineer who drew the pics above never in their wildest dreams imagined a footing, pier, post, floor scenario.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on May 29, 2016, 02:56:33 AM
Super explanation, great illustration!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on May 29, 2016, 11:16:28 AM
It should be at the top of the footing or at the bottom of the girder.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on May 30, 2016, 01:28:07 AM
I've confused you, the top of the footing should be 8-12" typically above frost depth. There should be a connection between the top of the foundation and the floor structure. When a "footing" becomes taller than wide it is a monolithic pier... remember it should run up to the bottom of the girder at that point, no post. Or it can be a footing... wider than tall, with a post running from footing to beam. These poured piers with posts perched on top that then run up to the floor are not anything, or as one engineer described them, they are collapse mechanisms... builders do not want to build machines, we build static structures. The top of the foundation above grade in a prescriptive foundation is not limited that I know of, it can be at whatever elevation you desire within structural limits. The top of the floor for an exempt structure using a non prescriptive, non engineered foundation... that's non designed piers, blocks and whatever other silliness... is limited to 18" above ground (this is of course for non habitable structures). There is a tie down requirement. You can use galvy or stainless connectors.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: nailit69 on May 30, 2016, 02:50:46 PM
Thursday - May 26th, 2016

Got a new Stihl 251 WoodBoss Chain saw today, my first Stihl...

Might be your last... I've got an older Stihl 036 that a tree fell on years ago that's still in service to this day.  I just picked up another one recently, a Stihl Farm Boss for smaller work. My saws will stay sharp and keep an edge for days or until you hit the dirt and then it's time to sharpen. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 30, 2016, 07:11:27 PM
Monday - May 30th, 2016

Removed 1500lb Boulder so I can do a proper pier:

https://youtu.be/dPv40HCmZ0o
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on May 30, 2016, 07:22:25 PM
Actually that boulder was around 2,625 lbs. (6x2.5x1)x175=2,625

Sandstone is 175 lbs per cubic foot.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on May 31, 2016, 08:16:22 AM
Excellent work. Now when I have a boulder that needs removing I know who to call.  ;D
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on June 10, 2016, 05:54:36 AM
Getting pretty hot outside lately so working early in the morning works best.

Lately, I've had to work on a few other projects so the country plan house is slow right now. One project I've had to tackle lately is building a better solar panel mount for my panels. I'm using an old satellite dish mount along with unistrut. I never knew all the applications that are possible with unistrut and the systems and fasteners that can go along with it. I can purchase a 10' stick of unistrut from Locke Supply near me for under $12.00.

Here's a neat video from the Unistrut company showing many different applications:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-8RJcGWA5o
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on June 21, 2016, 03:11:43 PM
On the way to Arkansas from Oklahoma on route 412 I took a pic of power transmission pole that had a pretty interesting foundation holding it up. It was all concrete with 4 columns that were about 15 feet or more in height. Each column was probably 3 feet by 3 feet or even larger. I've never seen these before:

(Pic coming soon)
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160618_135155_zpsmwrr94ix.jpg&hash=9b3c19801f6a04dfd3e9a80694b3ded9)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on June 21, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
Those are funky.  Did all the towers along that stretch have these?  Not a flood plain is it?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 27, 2016, 04:09:32 PM
Sorry I've been away for awhile.

I've started back on the 14x24. I just finished the subfloor, it's held up by 2x12's that are 14' long and 24" apart. I used 3/4" Advantech made for 24" spacing.

(Pics coming soon)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20161227_140526_zps8a52srsm.jpg&hash=27d84ac55d1f34883a04cee66d85b9c8)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20161225_141019_zpshct5ijzi.jpg&hash=994fea125d157c3da185f17da40a51eb)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: rich2Vermont on December 28, 2016, 05:55:19 AM
No "dancing a jig" photos? ;) Looking forward to seeing walls.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 29, 2016, 03:10:22 PM
I shall 'jig out' Rich!

I've started to plan out my walls and tomorrow the nailing will begin.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: hpinson on December 30, 2016, 05:57:11 AM
Can you post some pictures of your foundation bracing, for others to see? Thanks!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on December 30, 2016, 09:21:59 AM
Can you post some pictures of your foundation bracing, for others to see? Thanks!

There's a bunch starting back on post #160.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 31, 2016, 06:16:32 AM
I used 2x12's 2' on center spanning 9'6" across my 2 beams and then I used 3/4" Advantech flooring on top of that (Advantech 3/4" calls for 2' spacing).

I haven't crossed braced the floor joist yet. More importantly, I plan to cross brace underneath from the top of one inner beam to the bottom of the other beam, beam to beam at 3 locations using treated 2x6's. This will stiffen the platform and help with any raking. I do that because my piers are high.

Building my 2x4 10' high walls now:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20161230_170251_zps20wqzojq.jpg&hash=440e9cb832bd59f3739c306ea3646e3f)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: hpinson on December 31, 2016, 10:40:21 AM
Thanks - reposting to another thread by someone who asked.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: BlueRidge on December 31, 2016, 11:53:25 AM

Could you share your experience, compare and contrast your different homes?

You went from a 20X30 to a 14X24.  Actually living in the space changed what you thought you needed?  How?

You purchased a Derkson unit to live in while building.   Was there just not enough room in it to live, or are there other reasons why these buildings are not a good starting point - just finish out the interior and live in one.

Thanks for your insights ...
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 01, 2017, 06:02:55 AM
Very good questions BlueRidge, I could probably write a book in answering them but I'll try not to get too lengthy here.

You asked: 'Could you share your experience?'

The best way to find out my experience with all this home building thing is to simply take time and go through my post, both my 20x30 and now my 14x24. But I'll try to sum it up at this point with just a few sentences.

As these professionals here on this forum know, I'm not a home builder. I've tried to do my best with the money and knowledge that I have and as you can tell I've made a few mistakes, especially in my foundations. If I could go back and do it all again, I would tell others to really plan out and study hard and take the advise of the top professional posters here on this forum about foundations and how to do them. Don't get in a hurry to start even if you have all the money, equipment, and materials sitting right in front of you. I didn't pay enough attention, got in a hurry, and just wanted to start and because of that I didn't create my foundations as well as they should have been. How do I feel about that? Well, I'm going to go with it. I'll watch for movement in my beams, piers, and joists. I'll also check for level now and then and if I notice movement then I'll have to fix it somehow. I know you've heard it said, 'It cost more to fix it when it's done wrong than it does to do it right in the first place.' (or something like that).

You also asked: 'Compare and contrast your different homes.'

Well, I'm going smaller of course. Going from 20x30 to 14x24, when you think about it that's only 6' less in each direction so it's not a major change. It's just me and my wife, one cat, and two dogs and we love the tiny house living. I'm also going with 2x4 walls instead of 2x6's. It doesn't get all that freezing here just south of Tulsa Oklahoma. I used to live in New Hampshire and It'd get -40!

One major change between our 2 places is that we are living here on our 5 acres totally off grid. Hauling and catching rain water, reverse osmosis system, 24 volt solar system with panels and a wind turbine and also a compost toilet. We are only 'on grid' by the garbage man every Wednesday where we pay $24 a month to.

You also said: 'You purchased a Derkson unit to live in while building. Was there just not enough room in it to live, or are there other reasons why these buildings are not a good starting point - just finish out the interior and live in one.'

First of all, these Derkson buildings (or any other buildings built like it) ARE a good starting point...if that's what you want. We first purchased our Derkson building to live in with the intention of building our house next to it. It got to a point where we decided that it didn't matter whether we lived in our 16x40 Derkson for years before we built another house or not. But then we decided to build the house in order to have the Derkson a spare building for storage, a guest house, and an office for me.

Keep in mind that all these lofted barn cabin buildings you see for sale on the side of the road (like mine) are much smaller than their stated size. Ours is a 16 by 40 but they take those measurements from the eves and from the very most front and back and the porch won't be your living space. The width from finished wall to wall in our 16x40 Derkson building is actually 14'4". The length not including the 4' front porch is 35 1/2' from one wall down the length to the other. That equals around 507 square feet. Our 14x24 Country Plan home will be around 316 square feet. That's a difference of 191sf. Our loft in the 14x24 is going to be 13.5'x12 so that'll add another 160sf or so. So if you include the loft in the 14x24 we get pretty close to the same square footage of the two places - the 14x24 only around 30 square feet less.

Ok, I hope I've answered your question BlueRidge sir. Now it's time for me to get out there and build.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 02, 2017, 04:37:14 PM
Monday Night - January 2nd, 2017

Got the first long wall up on the 14x24. You can see our large 5x5 window opening.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170102_180934_zpso7q3jsok.jpg&hash=8adf94112606bc844f0687a19f74136a)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: azgreg on January 02, 2017, 04:46:34 PM
A wall!! And it only took 259 posts.  ;D
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 06, 2017, 09:27:30 AM
Snow on the Advantech Flooring...no big deal.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170106_100836_zpsv5iwzwq6.jpg&hash=0256736bbeab81c2758b7caf3144499e)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 07, 2017, 01:46:38 PM
Almost got a section of the side wall done. A little cold out but it ain't nutt'in.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170107_162018_zpsagnhoaaa.jpg&hash=820f5777285962ec7295b4c8d83f7b04)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170107_162000_zpsp0oojpel.jpg&hash=6a26a86074e8645c30b6b7fa6a3f1e72)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170107_161215_zpspqnzm3jk.jpg&hash=1161edb38fdc8abc06d511baeed1d5c7)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 08, 2017, 03:15:33 PM
Got a section of the end wall up today:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170108_163031_zpsnnaw6c7s.jpg&hash=054980fa4932ee5b528dd6c4d7cd2532)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 08, 2017, 04:56:56 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170108_163047_zps7edkup2r.jpg&hash=a69b700c09866d93cea69f05bc780798)

Warmed myself twice!
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170108_171341_zpsegm6fjgf.jpg&hash=b47496e1202dea5f1404355e5f87814f)

Our 450 foot driveway going to the road:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170107_162044_zpslpwjihv1.jpg&hash=ba51185330fc67647dbed4208d7d0279)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 09, 2017, 03:58:39 PM
It was a very warm day after work today so I cut and laid out the last section of our first end wall...in the dark using LED shop light. Tomorrow I'll nail it!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170109_184505_zpspacy7ivd.jpg&hash=c93bdf658d64c565db4dc6633f166ee3)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: astidham on January 09, 2017, 04:06:01 PM
Great progress Al!
I was just asking Robert about you at work..
Looking good.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: NathanS on January 09, 2017, 05:09:09 PM
You said warm weather so I looked up the forecast for your area.. well I'm jealous. Tomorrow is 65 and day after 72.. in January? I never thought of Oklahoma as being that warm.

My advantech floor was put through the ringer, and appears in perfect shape despite the discoloring. Pretty remarkable how far OSB has come.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 11, 2017, 02:21:12 AM
Got the East wall up now, it has 3 long windows 23 3/4 x 61. (Working in the dark with the LED shop light again)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170110_185243_zpsggy5qn7p.jpg&hash=56c900b6dc7ac946e8784f2c1848fe7e)

We moved onto 5 acres filled with mostly small to medium size trees so a bulldozer had to clear areas for the house, yard, and driveway. This left behind huge unsightly brush piles. I have a lot of fire wood to get out of them but problem is that they are also filled with limbs and vines. The biggest brush pile is right near the 14x24 build, as you can tell by some of the pictures. I'm slowly getting rid of that pile and getting some nice firewood out of it too. One of the best decisions of my life was to buy this Stihl WoodBoss chainsaw, it never stalls, starts every time, and just keeps cutting (as long as you don't cut into a rock or the ground).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170108_171341_zpsegm6fjgf.jpg&hash=b47496e1202dea5f1404355e5f87814f)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 13, 2017, 01:25:35 AM
Put up a small section of the 3rd (North) wall last night in the dark. The full moon looks pretty cool through the window:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170112_193745_zpsse8fuccw.jpg&hash=1a0897715ce5652abd0c911ade88f370)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170112_193931_zpscafs0p8p.jpg&hash=2de6f0fa78b0cb0fc37bca0bfe3d7565)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170111_183918_zpscqmmygno.jpg&hash=24fc064987d6fd5dc83e6c2f78c2c0f4)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on January 13, 2017, 07:57:41 AM
Seeing walls go up is always so gratifying.  Thanks for sharing the beautiful night pictures.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 23, 2017, 01:26:45 AM
Got the French Door rough opening done:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170121_171709_zps98qjja7m.jpg&hash=21bdfb67f8ade85275328fc0d6fb0e43)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 24, 2017, 01:24:28 AM
Finished the other long wall and there's the kitchen window. I also like trying to 'flip' my hammer - hate it when it lands on my toe.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170123_182745_zpscxqgyscb.jpg&hash=c90fdf32a1f8f689d7283e073757e12a)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 24, 2017, 05:06:22 PM
I've got to be careful, there was a timber rattlesnake at the end of my driveway a couple months ago. I killed it with a rock:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160828_185605_zpsw0gbxaxq.jpg&hash=3ac96458552cb1f5c90ad829df258d8b)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20160828_185616_zpsxsm9sgbm.jpg&hash=767f0f69ac6b3851799086eefcdf6c31)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 26, 2017, 01:53:29 AM
Nearing January 2017 End.

Well, I almost have all 4 walls up and it gets both exciting and a little tense at this point. Exciting to see walls all around you and a touch of tenseness of hoping to take the proper steps at the proper time, thinking about what I should do next and in what order before I actually start on my roof.

My thought is to add my top plates right after all external walls are done, then make sure walls are straight, level, and plumb and then keep them that way using  braces and nailing temporary diagonals on the inside. Next step is to add the interior walls which there are only two of them, bathroom walls. The loft floor joists are going to rest on the top of the bathroom wall just short of the half way point in width.

I plan to use doubled 2x6's at 16" on center for the loft floor, they will act as beams. They will rest on 2 sistered studs at each 16" point at each end of the loft joists. That will make for a really nice sturdy loft floor. I want to use 2x6's instead of single 2x8's, 2x10's, or 2x12's because I want to have every inch possible for head room up in the loft.

My roof is going to have a shed dormer on each side and the shed dormer will be a 3/12 or a 4/12 pitch while the rest of the roof will be 12/12. I plan to have our place look very identical to JackRabbit's 14x24 here on Countryplans:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13714.0 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13714.0)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on January 26, 2017, 10:35:00 AM
Nearing January 2017 End.
...

My thought is to add my top plates right after all external walls are done, then make sure walls are straight, level, and plumb and then keep them that way using  braces and nailing temporary diagonals on the inside. Next step is to add the interior walls which there are only two of them, bathroom walls. The loft floor joists are going to rest on the top of the bathroom wall just short of the half way point in width.

I plan to use doubled 2x6's at 16" on center for the loft floor, they will act as beams. They will rest on 2 sistered studs at each 16" point at each end of the loft joists. That will make for a really nice sturdy loft floor. I want to use 2x6's instead of single 2x8's, 2x10's, or 2x12's because I want to have every inch possible for head room up in the loft.

...

Al, here's how I secure framed walls.  First you want to make sure your walls are plumb and true before you put on the top plates.  Start on one wall and get it plumb and then add diagonal braces.  Move to the next wall and make sure it is plumb as well as the corner where the two walls meet.  Nail them together and add diagonal braces to the second wall.  Work your way around the rest of the building in this fashion.  I do this as each wall goes up so that I have diagonal braces as soon as I can.  Then put on the top plates, overlapping at each corner.

For your loft joists, will the loft be free-spanning the 14' or will there be any wall underneath to support it?  I ask because doubled 2x6 is going to be very much on the razor's edge of providing enough stiffness.  Wood species and grade will be critical in keeping the bounce out.  If you can get your hands on some rough-sawn 4x6 (actual dimensions) it will go much better than the doubled 2x6.

[Edit to add] I didn't catch it until now, but you want to put up any interior walls as well before putting on the top plate.  You want the top plate to anchor and stabilize the interior walls by overlapping onto the exterior wall.


Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 26, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
Thank you so much for helping me out ChugiakTinkerer!

There will be a wall under my loft joists, the bathroom. Those interior walls will be lower than the 10' walls to make head room for the loft so their top plates will not be the same height as the main 10' walls.

Thank you for all of your help. I'm going to make some calls here in the Tulsa area to see if I can get some rough sawn 4x6's.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on January 27, 2017, 08:34:10 AM
I think I've got your description figured out.  Dunno, still low on coffee this morning so I may be slow.  If your bathroom wall will be supporting the loft joists then you should be just fine with the double 2x6.  In fact, single 2x6 on 16" can span just over 10' for a sleeping loft.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 29, 2017, 04:24:01 AM
Last wall has begun, one more little section to go. Also, here's a pic of the underside 2x12's on 2' centers:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170128_164102_zpseae3pn5g.JPG&hash=fdd61cf52b7a63dc0a893870ad653fa3)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170128_164150_zps9bolxhof.JPG&hash=8f6b53c626e5b3d4ea5ee662135f5e5e)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 29, 2017, 04:08:09 PM
Got all walls up:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170129_170929_zps0yc3umei.JPG&hash=350a9a68854e8302b57607b257f859e1)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F20170129_171012_zpsovt4gupm.JPG&hash=c94a894feba478e8fe7b8a6b15e2ff36)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 31, 2017, 01:13:14 AM
Getting excited about sheathing the walls. I called my local lumber yard for the price of 4x10' sheets of 1/2 OSB and calculated that it'll cost me around $350 to go around the whole thing.

ChugiakTinkerer mentioned that I might use 4x6 rough sawn lumber for my loft joists. I called my lumber place and a 14' long 4x6 rough sawn cedar cost $65 each. Is cedar strong enough for that and I wonder if their usually nice and straight? I probably will just go with 2x6's at 16" on center though because it'll be way cheaper.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: icanreachit on January 31, 2017, 02:22:35 AM
Depending on which species, cedar is generally weaker in bending. Sounds like 2x6's 16" OC would be your best bet. At that price you should even be able to 12"OC and still come out at a fraction of the price.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: NathanS on January 31, 2017, 04:46:35 AM
Getting excited about sheathing the walls. I called my local lumber yard for the price of 4x10' sheets of 1/2 OSB and calculated that it'll cost me around $350 to go around the whole thing.

ChugiakTinkerer mentioned that I might use 4x6 rough sawn lumber for my loft joists. I called my lumber place and a 14' long 4x6 rough sawn cedar cost $65 each. Is cedar strong enough for that and I wonder if their usually nice and straight? I probably will just go with 2x6's at 16" on center though because it'll be way cheaper.

Yeah, I don't think I'd use the cedar. If you can find a real sawmill they will have 4x6 rough sawn for a very affordable price. Probably not much different than the price of two 2x6 at a regular lumber yard. I want to say my 6x6 - 10' rough sawn hemlock posts were $10 or $15 each. In my neck of the woods it is mostly the Amish that do the sawmilling for a living now. One potential issue is that the wood is wet, so it will shrink. Also for joists just make sure that there are no huge knots on the edge of material.. especially facing down toward the first floor. That is the 'tension' side so it would weaken the lumber significantly.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on January 31, 2017, 09:02:57 AM
I agree that the cedar probably won't have near the rigidity of your other dimensional lumber and probably isn't a good choice for this application, even if it were affordable.  I also wasn't considering that you could be buying green rough-sawn lumber and shrinkage from drying is a definite concern.

I think that trying to shave too much off of the joist depth puts you at risk for having too much bounce in the loft floor.  But I don't know what your use plans are for the loft, nor how you are framing it.  It seems to me that it would be good to take a little time and get a better sense of what you have to work with so you can make an informed choice on your loft floor joists.  If you want to work within the residential code, a 2x8 #2 or better spaced 16" on center will span up to 13'2" (IRC Table 5.2.3.1(1) (http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/content/2015-I-Codes/2015%20IRC%20HTML/Chapter%205.html) ) and I am assuming a measurement of 13'-1" for the free span.  Assuming your framing lumber is the same or better as the species in that table, you can use single 2x8 and your floor won't flex more than 0.44".

If you want to deviate from the code span tables, you should run some calculations to determine if your proposed beam will be comparable to the 2x8.  To start with, you need to know the species and grade you are working with.  There should be a stamp on your lumber like the ones described here: https://www.thisoldhouse.com/ideas/how-to-read-lumber-stamp

If you can post a picture of that, we should be able to determine how to build your loft with 2x6 joists.  It will tell us what species and grade you are working with, and looking those up in the NDS we can figure out the engineering properties.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on February 01, 2017, 01:18:35 AM
Thank you ChugiakTinkerer.

I'll get a nice pic uploaded of how the loft will look and what will be below it. My loft will simply be for sleeping and a little office. There will be an 8' x 6' bathroom wall below the loft so that wall will lessen the span. One bathroom wall will be out at the 6' mark in the width running down the length for 8'. Therefore the loft joists span will be 6' one way and 8' the other way. I'm sure that using 2x8's 16" on center will be nice, like you mentioned. There's going to be a 4' loft balcony out beyond the bathroom wall so they'll be 3 joist positions that'll span the 14' width at that point. I'm thinking that I could simply double those 3 2x8's at those outward positions and that would be fine. The weight on the balcony would be mostly just people standing and the weight of whatever railings I build.

Am I correct in thinking that I need to build the interior bathroom walls and then add my loft joists and the loft floor next? (after putting the osb around the outside) That way most of the buildings long walls will get tied together to support the addition of the roof.

I'm also thinking that I should add a couple of beams running width wise (doubled 2x8's) opposite the loft end resting on the top plates of the long walls for support at the 16' and 20' mark. (my build is 14x24) That way my long walls will be totally attached to each other throughout its length.

Thanks to everyone helping me, I need all the help I can get.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 13, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
Sorry about all the pics not showing up because of what photobucket.com has done. I'll be fixing the problem shortly, thank you for your patience.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 14, 2017, 07:24:09 AM
Allan's 14x24 in Oklahoma:

I ended up putting cross braces under the place for greater strength. I can tell that it definitely made it really stiff.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-10-17-2017-01.jpg&hash=6f69bccbb3cea81a389553746ac669e4)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on November 14, 2017, 08:39:31 AM
Hi Al, looks like the URL is off for that image.

As an aside, the code to display an image in a forum post is
Code: [Select]
[img]http://example.com/example_image.jpg[/img]
Like this image, displayed with the following:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/vToWqyQ.jpg[/img]

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvToWqyQ.jpg&hash=d7f5f70dc674524753e6ed247554d845)

The src="" format is for HTML, which has to be enclosed in angled brackets.  However most forum software filters out many HTML commands so you're probably better off using the forum format, which I believe follows the original BBCode.

Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 14, 2017, 09:39:46 AM
Tinkerer,
You helped me out a lot with the formatting of posting an image. It's been along time since I've posted here so I forgot for awhile.

Thank you sir!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 15, 2017, 06:41:31 PM
14x24

Put up the first loft rim joist:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-21-2017-01.jpg&hash=8f2408fd07b22eaccf37692048fcb2c8)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 17, 2017, 06:29:41 AM
14x24

A few more loft joists:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-21-2017-04.jpg&hash=d615a1a2d2bc4992cc142530c3148b1d)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 28, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
14x24 with loft.

Was going to have a loft for one half and cathedral for the other half but now we've decided to just do a whole 2nd floor. I have all the common rafters (12/12 Pitch) up and left 8' of length for a 4' high knee wall that will create a nice shed dormer on both sides:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-28-2017-01.jpg&hash=18829944e51763af5e8bde653efbf580)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-28-2017-02.jpg&hash=6071bee47b41d31c1cfa7d11d1c6788b)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 29, 2017, 04:22:00 AM
Wednesday - November 29th, 2017

14x24 / 2 Story With Shed Dormer

Here is how I'll frame my Shed Dormer but without the ceiling joists at the top.
This pic just shows it done on one side of the house but I'll be doing mine on both sides:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FShedDormer03.jpg&hash=2505bf77592716046dd5e13816e699a7)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on November 29, 2017, 08:30:38 AM
The flatter a toggle is the more spreading force it has, I'd keep those ceiling joists.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 29, 2017, 03:46:41 PM
Wednesday - November 29th, 2017

14x24 / 2 story with double shed dormer.

Got shed dormer wall 1 of 2 up today. I weighed the wall before I put it in place: 80lbs!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-29-2017-01.jpg&hash=d0876ed0eda8492fe8ba960477837c68)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-29-2017-02.jpg&hash=8d2cc18ba309a673ff6265ae48914c29)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 30, 2017, 04:46:09 AM
Thanks Don_P for the comment about the ceiling joist.

There's a graphic pic 3 posts above that shows brown ceiling joists above the 1st floor and blue ceiling joists at the 2nd floor above the shed dormer wall. The joists that I was thinking about not including are the blue joists at the very top. I figured the outward thrust against the short dormer walls would be minimal because of the small roof surface area and small roof pitch. I have 2x10 loft joists 16" o/c going across those walls under the loft floor.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 30, 2017, 06:58:59 PM
14x24 / 2-Story with Shed Dormers

Thursday - November 30th, 2017

Figuring out the 1st rafter that goes on top of the first shed dormer wall took me a long time. Getting
the birds-mouth and the upper angle was kind of trial and error. It's not right at a 3/12 pitch so I had to
make adjustments using a scrap piece of lumber. Now I have a traceable template to help me with the rest.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-30-2017-01.jpg&hash=b5a63de6007473123c44e28c855ca0b1)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 02, 2017, 06:04:16 PM
Saturday - December 2nd, 2017

14x24 Two-Story with 8' Shed Dormer

Finished rafters on top of the north shed dormer. Now onto the south side shed dormer.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-12-02-2017-01.jpg&hash=416b7f0fc894392bae447efefbf34b0a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-12-02-2017-02.jpg&hash=2fe0a50381878465d9463d6ab9decf16)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 07, 2017, 08:32:16 AM
14x24 / 2-Story with Shed Dormers

Thursday - December 7th, 2017

Finished south facing shed dormer and moving onto its rafters:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-07-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=42404ee8fd9a14351c1baa2d746fb20b)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-07-2017-14x24-02.jpg&hash=7856c1f3adfb0cc68818ea1331d8897c)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-07-2017-14x24-03.jpg&hash=71445beb9fa63d6094997c78ba4b2054)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 08, 2017, 04:19:19 PM
14x24 / 2-Story with Shed Dormers

Friday - December 8th, 2017

It was 18 degrees here near Tulsa when I woke up this morning. Gotta force myself to get out in that!

I really didn't want to do those shed dormers at the start. I love the extra height, the windows to look out of, and the look and so does my wife but I kept dreading trying to figure out how all the transitions go together and the different size birds mouths and rafter cuts. I'm glad I did it now but I sure didn't do a great job. Some of my birds mouth cuts have gaps and the angle of the top rafters against the ridge board also wasn't great here and there so just don't look too close at the pictures ok?

Got the south side shed dormer rafters on today and started to put the roof sheathing on:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-08-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=7328f019056e06c30472a0fb80ac3269)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-08-2017-14x24-04.jpg&hash=98ab45012ac0f691af49bd192ce92572)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-08-2017-14x24-06.jpg&hash=c9df10d5bb31cbd870972420e995c7c0)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-08-2017-14x24-09.jpg&hash=8ea715d9fd5187911f32ae729a3bb5db)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 09, 2017, 01:37:29 PM
Saturday - December 9th, 2017

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Have to start working on my roof so I made some 90 degree brackets with gussets supported
with a couple of trees that I chopped down. Then added 3 2x12's 10-foot long:


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-09-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=b6202d381341e1c15a3abf2ca121c22b)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-09-2017-14x24-04.jpg&hash=07d2ed2d17eb07a48ff6f5d88997a355)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-09-2017-14x24-05.jpg&hash=ccfc634b94aad8ad77c05f563dd222b6)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 09, 2017, 03:30:42 PM
Saturday - December 9th, 2017 (pm)

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Started to sheath the shed dormer walls:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-09-2017-14x24-06.jpg&hash=3c993cefa3f0258a18a544071734c6d1)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Beavers on December 09, 2017, 04:34:09 PM
Looks good...way better than trying to work off a ladder. [cool]

Are you putting collar ties in on your rafters?
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 09, 2017, 07:50:06 PM
Thanks!

I may put collar ties up, maybe some good looking beams.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Beavers on December 09, 2017, 08:46:53 PM
Beams would look cool.    Looks like you have enough trees nearby. Some hand hewn beams would be super [cool]

Can't tell from your pics if you put them in....I think you want blocking in between your rafters.  Might be easier to do before you get too far along with the sheeting.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on December 09, 2017, 09:14:52 PM
Collar ties, or straps over the peak, are a code requirement, and even if there is no inspection are important as either helps to hold the roof together when those Oklahoma winds blow.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 10, 2017, 06:08:58 AM
Yes, I'll be doing blocking in between rafters and I'll also use straps to keep the rafters against the top ridge.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Don_P on December 10, 2017, 06:35:49 AM
I think the trick is going to be keeping the dormer ridge from sagging and causing those cripple dormer walls from leaning outward.
Get a tape reading from floor to bottom of ridge at gable, yoke and at the center of dormer. Check plumb at king stud center of dormer windows, both sides. As you load up the roof keep an eye on it. You are treating that as a structural ridge beam over the dormer by not having ceiling joists tieing the rafter feet together. The bottom of your present dormer wall is a hinge. The dormer side walls can bear on and load the roof, or they can bear on the floor and help support the roof.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 10, 2017, 04:22:12 PM
Sunday - December 10th, 2017

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Did blocking today, top of shed dormer wall blocking left to do:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-10-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=57058ea23b4598c1cf3df68543730304)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-10-2017-14x24-02.jpg&hash=85dc997f31e87d65d23e75de570833b6)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-10-2017-14x24-05.jpg&hash=f5a5afd0e8b2ae6d8ea2ab3f7cec10c4)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 11, 2017, 05:27:10 AM
Rafter Strap:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2Frafter-strap.jpg&hash=ec902ffdaf2a60f5936eaa33eed316b4)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 11, 2017, 12:22:22 PM
Monday - December 11th, 2017

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Found a box of goodies that I forgot about:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-11-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=b163e10de99febdf0b911f145b7ae293)

Straps:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-11-2017-14x24-02.jpg&hash=92a86dd76c53f0a435407c19322525b3)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Beavers on December 11, 2017, 03:37:09 PM
I like the straps [cool]  I've never seen those before. 
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 12, 2017, 04:55:22 AM
Tuesday - December 12th, 2017

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Got more sheathing on the small 12/12 pitch section done by the end of the day yesterday.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-11-2017-14x24-03.jpg&hash=4f2ffbfc0d2eaa918835b9317232ad7f)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-11-2017-14x24-04.jpg&hash=2baac3791b9c7424c440c654306c0515)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 12, 2017, 04:02:23 PM
Tuesday - December 12th, 2017

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Put a full sheet on top of the south shed dormer.

I'm building this totally by myself so I really have to be careful with every step and every decision
while I'm up there. The top of the ridge is over 25' from the ground.

I stood on the 2nd floor contemplating how I was going to get that heavy sheet up on top of that
dormer section for about 1/2 an hour. I basically lifted it up into the first floor and then attached a clamp to
hold onto the top 8' and then I lifted it up the ladder and through the stair hole up onto the second floor.
From there I lifted it up through the middle dormer rafters and wrestled it up on top of the rafters
holding onto the clamp to get it into position.

I've also been tying myself off with this huge leather belt and a ribbon cord just in case of a slip.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-12-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=7a66718c00124d76b5bf1abddfc30caf)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-12-2017-14x24-03.jpg&hash=44152e2abdfc4168224c3ecf544608c6)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-12-2017-14x24-05.jpg&hash=a24ee36afc751f936605e2b640fe692a)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: pmichelsen on December 13, 2017, 06:40:24 AM
If it were me, I'd invest in a proper harness. I can't imagine what that belt would do to you if you were to fall.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 13, 2017, 07:16:21 AM
Great safety tip about the harness! That's all I got for now. The trick is, try to never have to even
use a harness by making sure there is no way to fall to the ground. Last place I built I made
scaffolding all around and it helped greatly. It really didn't take all that long to build it out of scrap
lumber and I felt much safer up there on that 12/12. I may build temporary scaffolding like that for
this place also.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F11-17-2012-20x30-Scaffold.jpg&hash=aeb6bf35db4245867f5f8ba6cf6a9d8e)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: MountainDon on December 13, 2017, 10:16:43 AM
Several years ago one of the members here was working solo, sheathing a steep pitched roof. Suddenly he was no longer posting. Months went by before he came back online. He had slid off the roof. I believe it was head first as he broke just about every bone in his hands and arms. He had to crawl out to the main road IIRC. He did recover, AFAIK, but it was a long arduous process.

We should all take the time and effort to be safe.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 13, 2017, 10:48:43 PM
Thursday - December 14th, 2017

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Got the west gable wall framed up today. Had to do a lot of those angle cuts:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-13-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=769105d6ed3646c4b219c1af37d3aa75)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-13-2017-14x24-02.jpg&hash=7b649694a6c431a040d11fd6198fd4da)

Maybe it'll look like my little drawing?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-13-2017-14x24-03.jpg&hash=70af08a0fea69a1cb06f21d9595d37ab)

This is a 44x44 gable window, I'll be doing the same thing over on the other side:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-13-2017-14x24-04.jpg&hash=b4a182e25ec2f3af95c3191859c09b6a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-13-2017-14x24-05.jpg&hash=af0a7870193359bd9ceafdb863050fb3)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 16, 2017, 02:58:08 AM
Saturday - December 16th, 2017

14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Trying to figure out how to repair these rotted French Doors:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-15-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=eb326bcc69a08dbf4f299c9cfc285005)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-15-2017-14x24-02.jpg&hash=e20879800fe2c9789be3159b950b83a4)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-15-2017-14x24-03.jpg&hash=38c5ebdf92e6e15157f618b262519ecc)

Made the cuts in the studs that'll go up into the east gable wall:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-15-2017-14x24-04.jpg&hash=45d01fb46227ef2061fe82494bea7885)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 17, 2017, 04:39:47 AM
Sunday - December 17th, 2017
14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormer

Started to put studs up at the east gable wall (not done yet). I thought I would save some money at Lowes so I
purchased the cheaper studs but I'm finding that they split really easily when I toe-nail into them.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-16-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=0a9f38394fe41ecb349a432fcc240613)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on December 17, 2017, 06:41:16 AM
I helped my sister frame up a shed with a 12:12 roof and a half loft.  She's got a 3x3 window in the gable end wall.  I doubt there's much worry about loads from above, but I just wasn't comfortable with a flat 2x6 as the window header.  Might have been overkill but I suggested two 2x6 on edge, like we did for the door header.  It just looked right for this old dog.

That 'giterdone' scaffolding reminds me that I shouldn't be cavalier about safety when I get back out to our cabin this winter.  When my sister and her ex built their place a few decades back, a very good friend fell off the roof and was laiud up for several months.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 19, 2017, 05:00:10 AM
Tuesday - December 19th, 2017
14x24 / 2 Story / with Shed Dormers

Finished the east gable studs and started more roof sheathing. After today, it's supposed to start raining here around
Tulsa, Oklahoma and then get a lot colder than what it's been lately, down into the 20's and teens at night. I'm still
going to try and get working on it as often as I can.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-18-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=843cebdb3b830523559db062c2e3336a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-18-2017-14x24-02.jpg&hash=c1ebe90b5dde6c6608d474ace51a4d63)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-18-2017-14x24-05.jpg&hash=16dd6bd9d1d607115e47a130bb698dcb)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-18-2017-14x24-08.jpg&hash=d2f43137ac3211efcd8f7ae25e0a67ae)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 27, 2017, 10:09:14 AM
Wednesday - December 27th, 2017
14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

I thought I'd get my roof on by the first snow here around Tulsa, Oklahoma but...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-23-2017-14x24-01.jpg&hash=0814246f1ace238035e69966a2257155)

Here's what I was doing Christmas day!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F12-25-2017-14x24-02.jpg&hash=509d9227f0d8c76d3c3b9b50295f52c6)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Adam Roby on December 27, 2017, 01:08:44 PM
Sweet!    :)

I'm stuck in the city with thigh deep snow and -22 F temps...  it's officially tv/blanket/coffee season for me. 
Your build is coming along, nice to see you are progressing again - albeit in the snow.
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 05, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers
January 5th, 2018

Got all of one side of the roof sheathed. Got a little warmer today, around 50. I'm going to try
to get to the other side tomorrow:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-05-2018-14x24-01.jpg&hash=e1201ef95a6e5af840f07dac243204c7)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-05-2018-14x24-02.jpg&hash=7867e4f16ea2689202bd437cdc02a095)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-05-2018-14x24-03.jpg&hash=c9669c5fa96fb80297e13fc7cbe3a170)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-05-2018-14x24-04.jpg&hash=73db39e3ae09b51ee595e0ec039573ce)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-05-2018-14x24-05.jpg&hash=46d400315f0de0152a286119b7bbc34a)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 08, 2018, 04:36:17 AM
January 7th, 2018
14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

Starting the roof on the other side:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-07-2018-14x24-01.jpg&hash=5f48091aad10c67dd0e19113566b63a5)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 09, 2018, 03:49:12 AM
Tuesday - January 8th, 2018
14x24 / 2-Story / with Shed Dormers

A couple more panels on the north side roof. Sorry for the dark picture color, it
was getting dark outside:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-09-2018-14x24-01.jpg&hash=19ef27d6d881f3f8a0478c3ff5d81154)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 22, 2018, 12:23:22 PM
Sunday - January 21st, 2018
14x24 / with Shed Dormers / 2-Story

Starting on the cheek walls of the shed dormers:



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-21-2018-14x24-01.jpg&hash=4faefb7de77680612d78a203d109d92e)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 24, 2018, 03:35:40 AM
Tuesday - January 23rd, 2018
14x24 / with Shed Dormers / 2-Story

I got all of my new windows the other day, really nice ones. I got them from a friend who has been storing them for awhile
and decided to let them go. The only 'slight' drawback was that none of them fit any of the planned rough
openings that I already built so I have to rearrange all of my rough openings to accommodate the different sizes.

Finished the 'new' east gable window rough opening:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F01-23-2018-14x24-01.jpg&hash=783dafd2dfe682c8e399cbf407e9d0f9)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on November 28, 2018, 07:21:47 PM
Wednesday - 11/28/2018
14x24 / with Shed Dormers / 2-Story

Haven't posted in months so here. Putting windows in, things going slow but I'm picking up the pace now.

Here's a youtube video of what it'll hopefully be like:

https://youtu.be/QWfO1cDi3tM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-11-28-2018.jpg&hash=7ab02e0622628ffb2092b2065a7e530e)

Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on December 20, 2018, 06:17:17 AM
Thursday - December 20th, 2018
14x24 / with Shed Dormers / 2-Story

Finished the house wrap on the east wall, ready for log siding:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2F14x24-EastWall01.jpg&hash=b355d61f665649fd9d49d879ef6d790a)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: Starvin on December 21, 2018, 09:25:33 AM
Love this build, very similar to the one I am hoping to do someday. Keep it up!
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: paul s on December 21, 2018, 02:50:49 PM
i like this build too keep up the good work

maybe work a little faster i really like this

i know all things in their given time

 thanks for all your posts
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 08, 2019, 05:45:41 AM
Tuesday - January 7th, 2019
14x24 / with Shed Dormers / 2-Story

Added a small section of roof below the south dormer and started to shingle. The second pic shows the north side where there is no section of roof between lower roof lines. I am going to shingle the whole south side first and then move scaffold to the back side and then complete that side.

On a side note: I ordered my log siding. I calculated that I'll need 900 square feet. The guy gets 2x8's, planes them, and then drys them. I pay 0.90 a linear foot for it - $1,350.00 total.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FRoofSection01.jpg&hash=6d2d1dfa05cf00d0420634000732957e)


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2FRoofSection02.jpg&hash=f92322b718f4dd25e82ceb3ec3a3adc5)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on January 24, 2019, 03:23:09 AM
Thursday - January 24th, 2019
14x24 / with Shed Dormers / 2-Story

Shingles: In Process...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2Fshingles-01-24-2019.jpg&hash=1a76d9819a2f337ebb3ec1e2a999c20a)
Title: Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
Post by: ajbremer on February 25, 2019, 05:49:07 AM
Shingles: Done on 1 Side:


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hockeya.com%2F14x24Pics%2Fshingles-02-24-2019.jpg&hash=93130349ec0412c6d2f7b18609aed3d7)
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