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General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: JavaMan on April 20, 2010, 08:37:41 AM

Title: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 20, 2010, 08:37:41 AM
After some consideration, and looking at the budget, I've decided that it might be in my best interest to start a bit smaller than I originally planned (I was going to start with a 18 X 28 cabin).

So, I'm starting out with a "shed" - 12 X 12 - to keep things simple.  I figure, when I actually start building the 18 X 28, I will need to have a place to store the tools and such so I'm not carting them back and forth from the wetside, and if I build the "shed" right, I can also provide for a snug place to sleep and relax when a days work is done.  I may begin the other cabin before this building is complete, but only so as to maximize my time and use of rented tools.

So, the plan right now is to "break ground" on either the 30th of April or the 1st of May (depending on when I can actually get out of town with all the tools I need).  I figure a 3 day weekend should do it.

The plan is to head up and rent a hole auger to dig the holes for the piers (6 of them).  If I can get it on Friday, I figure I should be able to finish with it in time to return it on Saturday and rent a cement mixer, pick up some rebar, crushed rock, and cement and pour the piers.  They will be about 10-12" in diameter below grade and 8" in diameter above grade (tube type molds).  I don't believe any of them will be more than 12-18" above grade (if they are, I will have to brace them some how).

I would hope to get the concrete poured on Saturday and Sunday so that I can return the mixer as quickly as I can.

Questions:

1.  Do you guys think this is too ambitious for one person?
2.  Are there any other tools that you think I might need besides the logical ones of shovel, axe, maybe a pick, wrenches, etc...?
3.  Any other suggestions?

The piers will be about 9-10' apart so no more than 18" "overhang" (cantilever) for the deck and the building.

Thinking ahead, should I use PT for all the floor joists, or only for the beams? I am leaning towards using PT for the joists, but that is going to add considerably to the cost of that part of the project.  (which is the next step for the next weekend I get up there)

I am planning on using 4" X 6" PT for the beams, which should sit directly on the piers, being held there with embedded fasteners and washers and nuts.

So, on to building!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on April 20, 2010, 09:45:36 AM
For a 12x12 I wouldn't do all that -- but then for a 14x24 I didn't either -- because if it is a shed then why put the piers in?  The cost is high, the rewards low.

I'd do a post and pier foundation and save the money and effort.

Did you check the ground for rocks?  One of those augers wouldn't work for me because the area has massive rocks/boulders everywhere!  We had to pick them out with the excavator in order to get a trench for our post and pier foundation -- if I were to do it again I'd do it by hand and plan around the biggest rocks.

Orange tape, stakes, engineers line (colored twine), a compass and a rake.

Stake the corners where you think you want to build, use the twine to set the outline.  Check compass headings to make sure you have good southern exposure on the wall you want main windows in (12x12 doesn't have a long wall but perhaps you want sun coming in a window to warm you up in the winter while waiting on the main cabin?) a rake to clean the area up so you have smooth ground to work on perhaps.....

water is also important so I'd suggest if you don't have a well then a 50 gallon water drum that you can fill and use for personal use while there (and later put a 12v pump in to provide pressurized water for things)...saw a great set up like that this weekend)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 20, 2010, 09:55:36 AM
In some respects this build is going to be a bit of a "test bed".  Which is why the more elaborate piers.  I'm figuring that there are other structures that I am going to want to build that will use the pier foundation.  I suppose, it could be a bit more affordable and easier to simply dig a shallow spot so things are flat, pour a small square (or round) "foundation" and then either wood posts or concrete tubes on top of that.  I would fear that it wouldn't be all that stable, tho.

I have time to think about it tho - so might revise the plan in the mean time (easy, since most of the heavy supplies I'm not picking up until I get to Omak)

Yeah, I forgot to mention batter board, stakes, twine, levels, etc... thanks for the reminder - that's the sort of stuff that  I would leave behind if I don't write it down someplace!

And I gotta check the generator to make sure it's all serviced and ready to go.  If I decide to just go with precast block and posts, I will be ready to build the deck in short order, so will have to take the compressor, etc... with, too.  But then I have to figure out PT joists on the flooring or not  ???  Decisions, decisions... d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: John Raabe on April 20, 2010, 10:00:05 AM
As long as the joists are at least 8" above the soil they do not need to be PT. If you plan plumbing and wiring in the floor, boost this under floor "crawspace" up to 18".

It sounds like you are using the pier block foundation layout of the 12' wide cabin in the Little House plans (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/29.html). That is simple to build and has proved to work well in many climates. When you go to larger more expensive buildings I think a deeper pier is worth the extra effort and expense. In some soils (wet clay or soft sand) even these do not always work well. But then, those types of sites really shouldn't have buildings on them!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Pine Cone on April 20, 2010, 10:09:43 AM
I think your plan is do-able, but you have some long days a head.  I would bring a rock bar to help with your holes and a big scrub brush and a couple of buckets to help with the cement work.  We had limited water on our site (rainwater storage) and filled a bucket with water to store the shovel in between mixing batches.  Kept the concrete from drying on the shovel, and use used the dirty water to help clean the mixer when we were done.  A scrub brush is pretty essential for cleaning off the mixer.

I have a love/hate relationship with PT lumber.  I used it for my foundation and joists to give me better protection against carpenter ants, carpenter bees, and lots of other creatures designed to be Gods recyclers.  I found that if you do use it, it normally warps badly if not severly restrained with blocking, nails, strongtie connectors, etc.  I had some 2x8 sill boards that lifted more than 1/2" off my joists on one side.  Luckly for me it rained, the sill boards got wet and I was able to force them back to a flatter configuration.

I think in your dryer forest area I might take John's advice and skip the PT for joists.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 20, 2010, 10:14:46 AM
Thanks John! The info about using PT or not will certainly come in handy - I am pretty certain I can manage to keep all the boards a minimum of 8" above grade somehow! The beams are 4 X 6 - ok 5-1/2" - so that only means another 3" - should be easy.

As for the plans - no, I haven't even looked at them.  I built a 12 X 12 "shed" in the back yard about 5 years ago (came as a "kit" from the local lumber yard - altho, "kit" is a bit of an exaggeration - more like "there's enough lumber and stuff here to build this - but you'll have to figure it out yourself what cuts, etc... to make" ;D)

Finished off on the inside, too, real nice for a Ham radio shack.  Ran 220V to it, dry walled it, including a ceiling, with a fan, lights, and small heater for the chilly nights.  Even carpeted it and tiled the entryway for muddy shoes.  Had to sell the house in the divorce eventually, so I lost it. (kept the radio gear, tho  :) )

So that is roughly what this will be based from.  A few changes, tho - the pitch of the roof will be 12:12, rather than the 6:12 that  it was on the previous one, and I will hang the door better.  $1,000's of radio equipment and if you bumped the door just right, it would open - even with a deadbolt! Go figure ???  I'm glad no one ever figured out there was lotsa good stuff in there!

Yeah, PineCone, I am sure glad John chimed in about the PT ... should save me some headaches and a few $$$'s too!   Thanks for the suggestion of the brush! I would have used a boat load of water to rinse the mixer otherwise - and I don't have a well (yet), so I will be trying (hoping?) the neighbor down the road is at his place that weekend (I'm trying to find his phone #, but I can find just about everything else about the guy, but that!).  I have a 235 gallon tank for the truck, but no way to get it off once filled (yet another project that  I've been thinking of).  That would be real nice to have up there - but I'll have to take the 55 gallon barrel I have instead.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: bmafg on April 20, 2010, 05:25:15 PM
One more thing about PT lumber. If you haven't used it be aware some people (like me) are very sensitive to the dust. I have to work with gloves, long pants and long sleeves all the time and either pay close attention to the wind or wear a dust mask when sawing. PT splinters are a big nasty for me.
jim
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 20, 2010, 06:00:02 PM
Fortunately, Jim, I've worked with it before without so much as a sniffle or scratch ... of course, having said that now, I will probably suffer anaphylactic shock this time.  Seriously, tho.  I know there are problems with the dust, but I've not had any problem, but I usually try not to breath the stuff.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: eddiescabin on April 21, 2010, 12:13:28 AM
JavaMan, remember a level and a plumb bob!   I like the sonotube piers, I do not hear much good on this site regarding them, but with rebar and simpson ties you can go many feet above grade,easy to build/install and  they end up super solid, no rot/insect concerns!  From my POV many of the builds on this site would be waaaay better off on sonotube piers.  As far as the PT, I would use it on everything below the subfloor with zero reservations.  I would not do it any other way. Especially if you are not going to be 18 inches above grade, use PT.  I am also a big fan of Copper Green, slap that stuff on every edge of wood...it will smell for a couple weeks but it penetrates and protects like nothing else.  I have used it to coat numerous redwood underground septic tanks i have made over the years with great results! This is my experience with numerous 100+ year old barns I own and some 85 year old redwood structures that have not seen stain in 40 years and have ZERO rot! Just my opinion, but I have solid non rotting, no mold structures to back it up.  I should add these practices have worked well in Tahoe winters on very large scale structures.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on April 21, 2010, 05:11:36 AM
If you are well drained soil I'd be tempted to use pre-cast blocks and PT posts, especially without a handy water source.  Not much, if any frost heave in those dry soils.  Digging around those boulders can be a real pain.  Did some under-slab plumbing for my Sister over there...  Took me a full day longer than it should have. 

We hand dug our place, luckily the digging was easy. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 21, 2010, 05:50:49 AM
Thanks eddie for the tip on Copper Green - I'll look into that and see if I can use it (y'never know what this state will disallow) - and the plumb bob is a good thought, too.  I just picked up a package of 2 levels - the kind that hang on a line.  I think they will work for getting the site level enough - or at least the beams.  And I'll take my trusty carpenters level, too.

Yonderosa, I have some rocks poking up through the ground, and I know there are some that are buried just under the surface, but I also know there are spots where there don't seem to be any - and one of the places I am thinking of putting this is such a place - who knows, tho, when I get there, I might think that putting it on top of one of the outcrops would be better (doubtful).  My concern about running in to rocks and boulders, is when I start building the first cabin.

Then, eventually, there is what I call "The Big House" - about 2000 sqft ... there are a couple places that I'd love to put it, but they are definitely on rocky cliffs.  Two concerns with that - stability of the cliff itself, and how to attach the house to rock.  But that's quite a few years off, and I might not even do it.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: SkagitDrifter on April 21, 2010, 06:50:37 AM
Good points made by all-
I like the Copper Green idea.
Here is one more vote for using pressure treated only where really necessary- ie. ground contact.
With the dry conditions over there and the crappy quality of mass produced pressure treated material, I would limit it's use- and never use it for floor joists.
When I cut and installed the stair jacks in the picture below they were right on the money. After a long hot summer they moved quite a bit.  I framed the whole deck structure with PT and now I wish I did not.  The main deck area is not that bad but the stair jacks really got wacked out of shape.  When I install the decking I will have a bunch of shimming to do in order to get everything to plane out.
(the composit decking in the picture is temporary and will be replaced this summer)

Good Luck
Tom
 
Notice the un-even stair treads due to the PT jacks.
 (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi143.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr158%2FSkagitdrifter%2FDSC05602.jpg&hash=750ae24b71bfc72e68509d4b5ba95772)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on April 21, 2010, 07:28:03 AM
Regarding leveling. For an easy to use and accurate DIY system it's hard to beat a water level. Either a home brewed system or one like Zircon makes.  The strings have to be pulled very tight if one uses those vials that hang on a string.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: SouthernTier on April 21, 2010, 08:10:14 AM
Java Man:

Sounds kind of ambitions schedule, but maybe that's just me.

Your plans seem similar to mine (gotta start up my own builder thread sometime soon).  I am building a 10 x 10 shed for storage, and later the 22 x 25 cabin will go in.

My time line on the shed (now, this considers I have a pretty time demanding job and two teenagers).


Now I'm just starting the framing.  I'm pretty much a perfectionist, so perhaps that's why I am going so slow.  And because I am lugging everything frmo home (and then another 100 feet to the work area), productivity is slow.  But still, I don't think a 12 x 12 will go up in weekend.

Here's a shot while I just starting the hardware cloth:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftrailmap.us%2Fshed%2FIMG_1068.JPG&hash=10fea0ea63930bbf854db78ad614a7c5)

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 21, 2010, 10:18:29 AM
Well, Southern, I wasn't planning on having the entire thing built in a weekend.  Just the Tubes if I go that way, or if precast blocks, then just the deck/floor.  Then the next working weekend would be walls, and a final weekend would be roof.  Of course, that's just the bare minimum - no doors or winders.  Having built one of these before, It took me about a week to get it "roughed in", and another day to be dry (doors, winders, locks).  Then it was a good month of work to finish off the inside with wiring, sheetrock, carpet, etc...

Where are you building? (Sorry if it's in your info, I can't seem to see it in edit mode  d*)

Oh, and how deep and what diameter are your tubes? And did you put a footer in (as in a base that is bigger than the tube diameter)?

Nice picture, BTW
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: eddiescabin on April 21, 2010, 09:27:37 PM
I am with the other posters- those line levels are no good!  Also you mention a rock-bar...not sure what that is but I used a Home Depot purchased heavy iron bar that has a flat spade (maybe 2-3 inches wide)on one end and a flat end, it is approx 5 feet long.  it worked great for breaking rocks that were underground.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: SouthernTier on April 22, 2010, 02:56:57 AM
Where are you building? (Sorry if it's in your info, I can't seem to see it in edit mode  d*)

Oh, and how deep and what diameter are your tubes? And did you put a footer in (as in a base that is bigger than the tube diameter)?
Yeah, I've got to update my profile, etc.  But what I'm really trying to find time for is building the shed!  The Southern Tier is the part of New York just above the 42nd parallel, which is the straight part of the border with PA.  Really beautiful country.  It's quite cold there in the winter, so minimum depth to avoid frost is 3.5 feet, typically try to get to 4 or more.  Here's my picnic tables two Novembers ago:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftrailmap.us%2Ftables-winter.jpg&hash=0bec58faf7f84cb256bfc1a861dcd046)

My posts almost make it to 3.5 feet; tried to go all the way but just too many rocks.  I was augering a 12-inch hole which didn't make it any easier.  It was one of those two-man hand-held augers that were a lot of work to manhandle in the rocks.  Those are 10-inch tubes.  Probably over engineered for this small project, but that probably makes up for the fact that (a) no, I don't have a footer below them (no way I could get something down the bottom of a 12-inch hole 3+ feet down, although I did put some gravel in) and (b) the one tube you can't see stuck up further than I would like it to.  It's always amazing how your eyes can trick you on non-level ground.  When you actually mark the level line, it's way higher than you would think.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 22, 2010, 05:43:29 AM
Regarding leveling. For an easy to use and accurate DIY system it's hard to beat a water level. Either a home brewed system or one like Zircon makes.  The strings have to be pulled very tight if one uses those vials that hang on a string.

Wow! I hadn't seen your post Don!  But I went reading someplace on the forum and saw someone talking about leveling his posts with a water level - great little tutorial.  I am thinking that I might have to actually figure out how to do that (instead of the line levels) - at least the line levels were cheap.

Eddie: Thanks for the description of the rock bar - I will have to see if I can find one of those (there are at least 3 HD's and 4 or 5 Lowe's on the way to the Ranch - I should be able to  ::) )

That's a lot of snow, Southern - altho it sounds like the snow knows when the seasons are... up at my place the snow usually goes out early (March, maybe April from what I'm told), but two years ago it wasn't quite gone on Memorial day (I have a picture of the front wheel on my truck buried to the axle in it someplace around here)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: dug on April 22, 2010, 06:58:42 AM
My water level is nothing more than a 1/2 in. by 50 ft. clear plastic tube. Very simple, accurate, easy, cheap. Place one end with water level at start line, wherever the other end is will be at same level. Just make sure to siphon all the bubbles out.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0024.jpg&hash=f20048a52c8b218a91fce6c2b25b0088)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 25, 2010, 06:53:40 AM
Thanks Dug for the picture - between that and the pictures in another thread here, I have n excellent idea on how to implement that.

So, thus far, in thinking about it, this is just a shed after all (not the main cabin structure) so as much as I'd like to play with the tubes, I am going to go with the precast footers.  If I was going to finish this off inside like an actual living space, I would put in a more permanent foundation.

So the list of things that I need to take this weekend so far are:
Shovel, hammer, prybar/rockbar, plastic tubing, batter boards, mason twine, tape measure, level, Plumb bob, square.  All this and the beams and blocks that I hope to pick up locally should get me the foundation and beams in.

After that, I am hoping to build the deck yet this weekend, and to speed that long, I am planning on bringing the genset, compressor and nail gun, circular saw, sawhorses.  Of course, I will need to get the joists, nails, brackets, etc... on my run down the mountain to have breakfast on Saturday or Sunday.

The plan right now is to head up on Friday morning, and return on Monday afternoon. depending on what the plans are at home, I might push that to Tuesday if there's still work I can do, but I think the deck is about all I'll accomplish this trip.

Have I thought of everything? - well, except water and food, but that's a given
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: jdejarn on April 26, 2010, 05:50:23 AM
I put mine on concrete piers as well.  Dug 9 piers, 8" dia., and went into the ground 4'. 2' is the frost line up there, and I wanted a really solid footing. I am the overkill king in this regard. This also meant that i do not need cross bracing on the piers as the depth supports it.  Put a 16"X16"X8" footer in the hole, then tied rebar and poured into Sonotubes.  I set the height with a laser level at sunset and this has worked great! 

Because of rocks and I am cheap, i did not rent an auger but dug by hand.  At that depth and required size to get there, it took 2 weekends, slowed by a 1200 pound rock in the middle of a hole that we pulled with the truck.  Once the piers were aligned and the holes filled, I just mixed by hand about 35 sacks of redi-mix and went for it.  Mixing this way was easier clean up and I surprised myself that it only took about 3-4 hours.  Manual labor is not always fun, and the mixing leaves for sore shoulders, but no extras to haul in and out and clean with no running water.

I am on a grade, so went 18" at the back, and am about 48" at the front of the cabin.  I only used pt material for shims on the concrete, then went to standard for the rest.  I built high for the snow depth and run-off, as well as getting wood off the ground due to carpenter ants in the area (I have already sprayed once this year). 

I wish you luck with an ambitious long weekend coming at you.  Digging the holes in the land over there can be challenging, so do plan a little extra time for the rough terrain. My privy hole took me 5 hours, 300 feet away the piers took 3 days. I think that you are on the right track to start with a small building then work to the larger, if nothing else by for practice! 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 26, 2010, 06:47:37 AM
jdejarn, Thanks for the info! Where abouts are you building over there? There are a few of us building on that side, as you've probably seen.

How big is your place?It sounds like you went quite high out of the ground to ensure you stay dry.  When I get around to the actual cabin, the front will probably be about that far up - that is the front of the deck in front.

What did you mix your concrete in? or did you mix it a couple bags at a time?  I figure I'd like to have a couple mixers at my disposal and have one mixing while pouring with the other.  Of course a couple wheelbarrows would do the trick, too, if I had a helper  ;D  I gotta see if I can rope, er.. convince one of my friends to come give me a .hand when I get that far  ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: jdejarn on April 27, 2010, 05:58:01 AM
Alright, I have to start a thread here and get the photos and all that to let everyone know where the project phases are.  I work late and too long for too little (heard that before?) and weekends now are spent, well you know...

Location:  Mt Hull, 15 miles north of Tonasket on a forest service rd off of Swanson Mill Road. This is about half way between Oroville and Tonasket. Great treed and level property, easement road through the middle and drives already in, and power and phone run on the easement so if I ever wanted to...  But I don't.  I like off-grid.  Put this on an owner carry contract and got the land for a lot less than it's worth, because of year round access and level, developable potential.  And it has some view of Mt Bonapart and the valley to the east.

How I mixed and poured: By hand.  Less to haul and manage.  Went to Midway Supply in Tonasket, bought 36 80# sacks, had the water (about 60-80 gallons) in barells right there.  I bolted a 2x4 to the bottom of my wheelbarrow for better balance and mixed.  That simple.  I have good shoulders and decent back, and the 8" tubes ranged in toal from 6' to 9'.  I mixed (yes, 1-2 at a time) and scooped, set a bracket in the top to tie, and was done in about 3-4 hours.  Come to think of it, I started around 8am, and was on the road again (didn't want Memorial Day traffic!) with clean tools by 1pm. 

Tools:  a scoop (plastic bottle) one flat point and one spade, a 3 gallon steel pail, and a wheel barrow.  It's not hard for a small structure.

And in brief, the building is a simple 60-day cabin, and is permitted as this.  For the land contract, I have to play by the rules.  16x20, stick frame, panelled outside in T1-11 (found for 9.99/sheet on a sale).  Put an 8x16 deck on the front.  For now it is a single story cabin with a 12/12 roof and 8' walls, but is this way so I could later add a second story, a loft or a solid level.  Kept it simple for a weekend place and am too young (39) to consider retiring anytime in the near future, so I will worry that later.  Just a place for me to escape, and let my family go to as we did at a lake place we used to have when I was growing up.

When I get a little time and a little more discipline, I will post.  Got to go over this weekend (th and Fri) to put the stairs in and measure for the rails and guards, then pretty much ready for a little trim and a final.  Then I can proced with the real plans to make it a nice place to stay!  I wish you luck with your build!  I have spent a little too much energy doing mine, and nearly lost the fun in it last year with the really steep and high roof and a few issues working 250 miles from home, so if it starts to feel like work, I recommend you stop!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 27, 2010, 12:44:46 PM
jdejarn - thanks for the info.  Yup, quite a few of us in the okanogan building.  Looks like Oljarhead is just up the road a bit from you!  I wish I had year-round access... and with a little effort I might, but it's a bit more effort than I care to put forth right now.  I'd have to get there a bit more often than I have time and money for in the winter.

I've been in the planning stages for about 5 years now, even tho I've owned my land for about 3.5 years so far.  I had a piece of land before that up in the Tonasket area, but times got tough and I had to cash it in to cover the lean year or so that I was having.

I know what you mean about "if it begins to feel like work"  I figure it will just before I finish.  But I will make sure that it's usable before I quit working - and even then it will only be until I recover.  I'm not sure I'll get to the actual cabin this year, but if I do, it will be a longer project and I believe will take me into next year.  I will have to plan what to do for the winter when I won't be up there.

Thanks again for the info on mixing, etc...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: jdejarn on April 27, 2010, 06:37:33 PM
Would love to catch up w/ you guys over there over the weekend, but with my odd schedule, will have to plan when I get a vacation.  You guys have fun.  I will be back on this side come friday afternoon, so not a lot of time this run!  Take care!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12 a
Post by: JavaMan on May 02, 2010, 03:38:36 PM
Well, I didn't stay up there as long as I had originally planned - and missed lunch with oljarhead - but I accomplished nearly everything I wanted to, and in somewhat adverse conditions!

The snow was almost gone from the road - yes, I said the "S" word.  In most places it was melted away but there was this one place where if the snow had all been gone, the road would have been plenty wide to pass easily, but the snow was NOT all gone, and of course, it hadn't melted on the side away from the cliff.  And it was still somewhat across the road to the cliff as well.  Just one tire track through mud within a couple feet from the edge.  Yeah, that's enough, but when you are attempting to avoid sliding off the cliff into the creek below (about 15'), and the truck starts sliding sideways towards the cliff ... well, the heart beats a bit faster, and the BP goes through the roof.

All in all, I passed that section only 3 times coming and 3 times going, but it seemed like about 6 each way.

When I got to the site, I was greeted by snow just in front of the building site - right where I needed to back up to unload and be on level ground:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FDE300369.JPG&hash=77f523b2a2c1a39d8b99259f637e6862)

Oh, one more thing.  That snow was sitting on top of some cowpies ... I don't care if you have the best 4X4 in the world, trying to back up on wet cowpie is nearly impossible  d*  So, I managed to get the back of the truck somewhat close, and unloaded.

Going to work, I realized that the 4X6's that I got were actual 4X6's - not 3-1/2 X 5-1/2 ... so I had to trim out a bit of a notch for them to sit in the brackets on the foundation piers.  Not being able to level the generator made this a manual labor kind of job, so I went at it with a hand saw, rather than my circular saw.  (note - the generator has an oil sensor that when it's tipped just so says there isn't enough oil to start it, and it won't)  Note to self, find a level spot for the generator next time.

After a couple hours of digging, checking with a level, digging further and notching, the results were this:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FDE300376.JPG&hash=b3052b44c3a020c02db84d666ef12e65)

Checking from one beam to the next, I had managed to obtain:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FDE300375.JPG&hash=77969ae4cccfead044268b580fb945d8)
Not too shabby, I think.

It was going on 7:30 when I finished this up, and so I decided to take a short walk around the property while it was still light out.  Then I got back to the truck, had a bite to eat and then hit the sack.

The sun came up the next morning and woke me at about 5:30 am.  Got up, stretched, thought about what I needed to get from the lumber yard and then headed down the mountain.  Squeeked past the slippery spot, and into Omak around 7 am to the Home Depot.  Got my ties and some nails, asked where to get a good breakfast (and was informed of such a place) and headed that way.

Back in Okanogan (city of), I had breakfast at a place not far from the lumberyard, and after breakfast, went and picked up some 2X6's for joists, and headed up the hill.  Put them on - then went back and got more - this time I had them saw them to the length I needed - and finished up on the site around 3 pm.  A shot of my handiwork.  Altho, I am going to have to tack a strip on the one 2X6 because the joists that tie to it are a tiny bit high.  I'm not sure how that happened, but that's ok - the joists are level in all directions.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FDE010381.JPG&hash=53737c463f4303a6fb100e01e2c83a8f)

You see my supervisor in this picture.  In between breaks of chasing the birds away, Cricket would come and watch me work.

Finally, I took a picture of the view from the floor level:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FDE300378.JPG&hash=277702b486d845e080c81706b361f457)

So, since it had tried to snow at about 11 am, and then was trying to sleet at 2 pm, and that "narrow spot" in the road was making me nervous everytime I drove past it, I decided to come home and put the deck on it next time.

When is next time?  I think in two weeks.  If all goes according to plan, I will take 4 days and put the floor down, and the walls up.  Roof to be put on the third time I go up (hopefully in about 4 weeks  :) )

So that's the beginning of my adventure.  Granted, it's only a "shed" but once complete I will be able to not have to haul tools and other stuff everytime I go and can concentrate on taking the supplies I need to complete tasks on the "real" cabin.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: jdejarn on May 02, 2010, 07:34:53 PM
Looks like a great start for a couple days work!  I got that stairs in to my deck on Thursday and friday, and when I got up there, while I have no snow on the ground, it was blowing snow and freezing rain around.  My dog was really not impressed!

Your view is about the same as mine.   I can spot a few trees to thin and improve it, but still decent.  And as for level, really good.  You're always going to have to readjust and level more later wen it settles, so good enough for now!

I too will be heading over ideally in a couple of weeks for some trim and handrails, and see if I can get it ready for the final.  I wish you luck and will check back later!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 02, 2010, 07:37:52 PM
Sorry we didn't connect.  I left without thinking (too much on my mind I guess) to get a cell number or give mine so decided to wing it.  I figured either you'd pop in or not but the shakes were good :D

I'll be back up either starting the night of the 14th of the morning of the 17th and will be there a week...gotta get the toilet done and the roof on!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 03, 2010, 08:57:56 AM
Well, my plan is to head up there again on the 14th (pending review by Beautiful), and spend at least 4 days, maybe 5, getting the floor down and the walls up.

It worked out really well, to stop at the lumberyard in Okanogan and get supplies before I went up.  I'm not sure that's going to be do-able with 4X8 sheets of flooring next time.  I may have to go up and empty the truck first, but that's ok.

jdejarn - yeah, it did start snowing - at least a few flakes - on Friday afternoon, too, but not enough for concern.  And what weather I had on Saturday wasn't to concerning either - I was just plumb wore out from working at altitude and the whole thing of trying to get past that one spot on my road.  Also, that's the view from the shed  ;D  I have a view from where the first actual cabin is going that is much better than that  :)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2FOC190306.JPG&hash=298e01b13f349c8a7fa28bbf6e93403a)

One of the first orders of business is going to be to rent an excavator and do a bit of work on the road in, and then improve my "driveway" in so I have a level place to park.

Then I think I will also use it to dig the hole for the basement for one of the cabins... Anyone know how to drive one of those things?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: SkagitDrifter on May 03, 2010, 10:08:40 AM
Hey JavaMan
Well done on getting some wood nailed up- it's a great feeling to finally be under way with the construction end of things.  Where all the thought and planning finally come together.

It gets easier with each trip- you will figure out new and creative ways to pack every square inch of your rig with supplies.  If you are anything like me you will find yourself planning, listing, re-checking, pre-cutting and building as much as possible before you make the trip over.   
Great views from your place.  The Okanogan sure is beautiful country. 
Keep up the good work!
All the best-
   
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 03, 2010, 11:46:22 AM
Thanks for the reply Skagit. I drove home on 20.  Really nice drive that way.  First time I brought Beautiful to the Ranch, we went through Wenatchee, up 97.  She is not a fan of high desert and that's about all you see that way.

Next time we're taking the northern route (Hwy 20) and she will see that the Ranch is right on the edge of where the high desert begins.  Or so it would seem, since much farther west of me and you've got the ski bowl, and Twisp, etc...  I think she'll like it much better from that point of view.

Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to square the floor up.  I took some measurements before I left and after refreshing my brain on all the trig, I discover that I'm not really square enough (contrary to some people's opinion  ::))

It looks like I'm about 3-1/3" off on opposite corners (that is if I did the trigonometry right).  That's way more than I want.  Grrr.  Well, that's going to slow me down a bit.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 12, 2010, 09:19:00 AM
Well, I set up my utility trailer with the genset and the compressor, got the refurbed air nailer (porter-cable, round head nailer, $125 *delivered* - w/warranty  :D), saw horses, come-a-long, chop saw, circular saw, and other tools and the BBQ all ready to roll on Friday morning at oh-dark-thirty again.  I'm planning on leaving even earlier than last time  d* and catching the 5:05 ferry from Kingston  c*.  Should roll into Okanogan about 10-ish (depends on if I stop for b'fast)

Once in Okanogan I'll pick up supplies and head up to the property.

The only thing left to do before I leave is get groceries and check my lists to make sure I haven't forgotten anything.

I'm gonna get walls up if it takes me all weekend  :) of course, I'm planning on being there until Monday sometime.

Anyone else heading out that way this weekend? I figure I'll need to see that civilization is still in effect by Saturday or Sunday noon, so am planning on heading to Omak then for a spot of lunch that I didn't have to make
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: diyfrank on May 14, 2010, 06:02:11 AM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2FOC190306.JPG&hash=298e01b13f349c8a7fa28bbf6e93403a)

One of the first orders of business is going to be to rent an excavator and do a bit of work on the road in, and then improve my "driveway" in so I have a level place to park.

Then I think I will also use it to dig the hole for the basement for one of the cabins... Anyone know how to drive one of those things?

Javaman, That's a million dollar view! 
We may be able to work something out on your site work. Post some pictures of what needs done and the size of machine you can rent. I can give you an estimate of the hours involved. There isn't much choices when it comes to renting without operator on the East side. It'll get tougher as we get into the fire season also. You can price it with and without operator and work from there.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 18, 2010, 06:02:18 AM
The weekend update will be along shortly, but first ...


(Image snipped so page loads faster  ;D )
One of the first orders of business is going to be to rent an excavator and do a bit of work on the road in, and then improve my "driveway" in so I have a level place to park.

Then I think I will also use it to dig the hole for the basement for one of the cabins... Anyone know how to drive one of those things?

Javaman, That's a million dollar view! 
We may be able to work something out on your site work. Post some pictures of what needs done and the size of machine you can rent. I can give you an estimate of the hours involved. There isn't much choices when it comes to renting without operator on the East side. It'll get tougher as we get into the fire season also. You can price it with and without operator and work from there.

Thanks diyfrank!  I was thinking a bit about that this time up.  I did figure out a few things that I needed excavated.  And I know where I can rent one in the town of Okanogan.  I don't figure I need anything big, so the smallest they have.  The bad news on that is that it is doubtful that my F150 would pull it up my road.  The guy at Hamilton Farm Equipment (AKA "The Rental Place" Apparently) didn't even think I'd be able to haul it up the long, steep hill on Hwy 20 heading SW out of town!  So they'd deliver and pick up for $75/hr!  Gotta 1/2 - 3/4 ton truck?  Their rate for an unmanned excavator was pretty fair, I think, at $220/day for a 331 mini excavator. (the price sheet is at http://hamiltonfarmequip.com/rental/listing.htm (http://hamiltonfarmequip.com/rental/listing.htm))

I'll IM or email you with more detail on what I'd like to get done up there - at least the "first phase".

That is one of my favorite pictures from my property.  I have a few building sites chosen that have views either like that, or through a couple trees.  Of course, a couple of my favorite pictures are these looking south down the road at two different times of the year:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2FOC190292.jpg&hash=1a65c17a26f1778f382e6fe6110ad34c)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2FOC130316.JPG&hash=758d4e36b608b5876a3964a77da4b098)

I still need a summer shot (which I'll get next time I'm up there) and a better spring shot - which I've missed my opportunity for this year, I think.

Yeah, I guess I am pretty proud of my place  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 18, 2010, 06:28:17 AM
Sadly, things didn't go quite as I had expected this weekend.

They could have, had I

1) not been quite so bull-headed about doing this part by myself, or
2) figured out ahead of time how to do this without help

So, I got up there, got setup, squared up the framing - which didn't take but an hour or so, and then fired up the generator and compressor and nailed the flooring down!  Yippie!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2FDE140387small.jpg&hash=bf249e7d24b0669401ac89649dbe473e)

Then I started on framing the walls.  I figured a 12' wall, 10' high shouldn't be that much of a problem.  So I laid it out on the flooring, and nailed it together.  This part went like a hot knife through butter.  I think it only took me about 90  minutes to frame, square, and skin that wall. 

Then, I discovered my problem.

Carrying the wall to the assembly point one piece at a time, it's not so heavy.  But with all the pieces together? Ok, I sat and stewed about this for a few and thought of something to try - which didn't work.

So I figured, ok, I'll still be able to frame the other walls, I just won't put the skin on until I get them stood up!  So off I go framing the second wall.  I go to stand it up.  Yeah, it got farther this time, but not nearly far enough.  Who would have thought that a few pieces of 2X4's would weigh so much!?!

So, after shutting the generator down, I sat an thought about it during lunch  Yes, it only took 1/2 a day to get this far. I was on schedule to have all 4 walls up by Sunday morning, if I could stand them up!  I figured out something to try, but I needed to use some power tools, and the Generator wouldn't start.  I think the oil sensor that keeps it from starting when oil is low was out of the oil (it wasn't on level ground)  And there was no way I could seem to level it enough.  Something I will need to look at this week.

So, giving up, I turned my attention to the road in, and how to make it better/easier to get in.  And where it needed to go for the next building (or two).

Got home Sunday afternoon, sadly.  Ah well, next time I plan on having help because I am also planning on putting up the roof - or at least starting on it. 

On the way back after the lumber run, I saw this guy perched on top of a telephone pole. 

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2FDE150388small.jpg&hash=47b0a422c131c54842f1a71016ccd574)

That was at the turn off on to Buzzard Lake Road.  Guess I know why it's called Buzzard Lake now  ???
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: John Raabe on May 18, 2010, 08:36:53 AM
Help with this stage is a great benefit!

Have you got the Working Alone book? Lots of clever solutions for a one-person crew.

http://www.countryplans.com/books.html - third book on the list.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 18, 2010, 09:28:33 AM
Help with this stage is a great benefit!

Have you got the Working Alone book? Lots of clever solutions for a one-person crew.

http://www.countryplans.com/books.html - third book on the list.

Of course I don't have that book! d*  I only looked in there on Amazon after getting back from the site (insert rolling eyes emoticon here) ...  Thank goodness for the preview ("Look inside!") option!  I discovered that had I thought about it (read the book first) I could have looked for wall jacks.  In fact, there is a place on the way to the site that rents them for $8/day!

Thankfully, this is not the actual cabin build.  I am beginning to think that I was really wise in doing this project first, so I can shake out all this info that I need before beginning the actual cabin! :)

Live and learn... hopefully I'll have been able to give it much thought before going up the next time. 

And yes, there is no way I am going to do the roof by myself.  Even if I have to wait a month or so before I can round up help for it!

I know for certain, tho, that I will be ordering that book today or tomorrow.  From what I saw, it looked like a great resource.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 24, 2010, 06:16:31 AM
I received the "Working Alone" book on Friday and have read through most of it already.  At least the parts that cover what I know I have to accomplish in the next few weeks.  It looks to be a great help (now I just have to find out where to gut scaffolding!).  I especially liked the section on figuring and cutting the rafters.  The jig looks to make this job a lot easier.

Plus I thought of a few things I could certainly use to help with workspace utilization.

I also bought the "House Framing" book, which I have not started, but it looks interesting.

I don't know if by getting to Amazon by clicking on the links on this site, the site gets a spif, or commission, but I certainly hope so.

Thanks for the resources!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 25, 2010, 07:01:23 PM
I received the "Working Alone" book on Friday and have read through most of it already.  At least the parts that cover what I know I have to accomplish in the next few weeks.  It looks to be a great help (now I just have to find out where to gut scaffolding!).  I especially liked the section on figuring and cutting the rafters.  The jig looks to make this job a lot easier.

Plus I thought of a few things I could certainly use to help with workspace utilization.

I also bought the "House Framing" book, which I have not started, but it looks interesting.

I don't know if by getting to Amazon by clicking on the links on this site, the site gets a spif, or commission, but I certainly hope so.

Thanks for the resources!

We need to meet up...Josh and I help you raise walls, you help us get the roofing on!  I think it's time for that coffee :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: John Raabe on May 25, 2010, 08:58:27 PM
Thanks - Yep, a little bit comes back from Amazon. ::)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 26, 2010, 09:05:54 AM
I received the "Working Alone" book on Friday and have read through most of it already.  At least the parts that cover what I know I have to accomplish in the next few weeks.  It looks to be a great help (now I just have to find out where to gut scaffolding!).  I especially liked the section on figuring and cutting the rafters.  The jig looks to make this job a lot easier.

Plus I thought of a few things I could certainly use to help with workspace utilization.

I also bought the "House Framing" book, which I have not started, but it looks interesting.

I don't know if by getting to Amazon by clicking on the links on this site, the site gets a spif, or commission, but I certainly hope so.

Thanks for the resources!

We need to meet up...Josh and I help you raise walls, you help us get the roofing on!  I think it's time for that coffee :)

Be glad to help!  With the end of school, and summer fast approaching, there are "end-of-school-year" things going on this week and next, so the plan is to get up there in the middle of the week starting June 8th or 9th and working through the weekend (if I have that much to do!)  Of course, I can always find more to do.   :)

It shouldn't be difficult to meet up for coffee sometime during that time if you're up there then and we can work out some sort of plan to help each other.

I might even have a friend from here helping as well, which would probably help accomplish even more!

What I'm hoping to get done in this push is the walls stood and finished, a the roof on and at least sheathed  (shingled, if time permits).  Optional are the door and windows.  All do-able, I think, even if it's just me - as long as I have the right tools!

But it would go a lot faster with help.  And I'm not adverse to helping out in exchange, either.  ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 15, 2010, 06:37:41 AM
Well, it's been a while since an update so here goes.

First - thanks to oljarhead for the offer to come help put up the walls.  I don't know for certain if it's that I wasn't quite ready to put them up (hadn't put them all together) or if I tend to have a bit of embarrassment at my methods/abilities/etc...(like the fact that I cut the one wall in half to be able to put it up) Or perhaps some of it is that I really would like to do as much of it by myself as I can.  I dunno - but thanks for the offer to help.  Also, I would feel badly about having you guys drive 1.5 hours each way.  That's a long ways, just to raise a couple walls.

So - on to the details!

I got there around 1 on Wednesday.  Weather seemed to be cooperating.  That is until I got the EZ-up (actually, "FirstUP") up.  Then the rain began.  Like the guys up near Tonasket, the hail showed up for a few minutes - apparently, they had much more.  But it rained on and off most of Wed afternoon.  Which put a bit of a damper on the proceedings.

However, the site was found pretty much as I had left it:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FPhoto0032.jpg&hash=9e8f2a042171a7f2cd7c663a40936e31)

I went and purchased what 2X4's I figured I would need.

The next day, after the rains I was up and at it - the first wall frame went up, and a celebration was heard all throughout the land...
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FPhoto0033.jpg&hash=b4be5858515cec3a83f269d081c7e689)

Then came the problem.  How to get that wall standing that I had put the sheathing on?  Well, I decided that there was no way I was going to lift it by myself as it was.  So, I figured, why not simply cut it in half and raise each half on it's own.  Which is what I did.  It's not exactly pretty, but it worked.  That wall went up, finally.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FPhoto0034.jpg&hash=5011702eee088752479fb77bb0ca08ea)

You can see that there are two sections in that photo.  Things did eventually get a bit more aligned, but at this point, I simply wanted them up.

Of course, then the rains came back, so I ran to town and had lunch.  Coming back the generator wouldn't start!  So the afternoon was pretty much a bust.

The next day I ran back to town, got the loft joists, and picked up an actual funnel to get oil into the generator (it has a cut off switch - won't start unless there's enough oil and I was suspecting that was my problem)

Put oil in the genny, and it still wouldn't start, so I clean up a bit around the site, and read.  Around noon, I decided to try the genny again, and on the second pull it started.  Didn't give me any trouble after that.

With the platform clear, I constructed the next wall frame - the "back" wall and stood it up, then moved on to the "front' wall.  That was enough for one day:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FPhoto0035.jpg&hash=15aa0e33aa811142dd7229ec4bb7e53d)

Then, on Saturday, I got up, and put as much sheathing on as I had, and then began putting up the supports for the loft joists as well as the joists themselves.  I didn't finish that job, but got along a ways:
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Fland%2Fshedbuild%2FPhoto0037.jpg&hash=abebeceb93f7b2dbbb58530d7c1da8a6)

In the course of the weekend, I spent about $150 on lumber, $97 on the pop-up awning (really, it wasn't necessary, but it was nice to have, to sit out of the rain and sun.), and $127 on a ladder.  That is besides gas to get there and home.

I am not quite sure why, but by Saturday, I had noticed a trend.  It seems that I just can't manage to do more than 1/2 day's worth of work on the cabin at a time.  I'm not sure if that's because of working at altitude, or because of working alone, or a combination of both.  I'm sure I'd get at least a couple more hours in with someone else there, because I don't break for meals, and when I do, I seem to let that slow me down too much and lose my drive at that point.

In any case, it is moving along.  I hope another long weekend will find it finished - realistically tho, it will be more like 2 more long weekends ... at least
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 19, 2010, 02:02:36 PM
Great progress!  I'm sorry we didn't make it down to help :(  We would gladly do it becuase sometimes company is the key ;)

However, as you mentioned the weather sucked and we needed to get the roof on!  Sheesh.

Anyway, I'm impressed bud!  Got all those up alone?  WOW!  Bravo!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: diyfrank on June 20, 2010, 07:00:49 PM
You're making progress for working alone and yes the weather does slow you down when it's cold & wet.
I'm planing my next trip for the weekend of the 4th. Crossing my fingers for the Sunny days.

Any luck with finding your logs?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 25, 2010, 03:42:02 PM
Well, I have a "source" for logs .. but it's not really reliable.  By that I mean that he doesn't have the logs on a regular basis, so I may find that he won't have them when I'm really ready to buy them.... if that happens, I will simply tell him that the next batch he gets is mine  ;)

My plan is to go up this Monday (leaving at my usual time - 0-dark-thirty) and pick up some rented scaffolding on the way (I found some in Twisp).  The plan currently is to stay until Friday morning, leaving as early as I can.

I'm actually going to have to come off the mountain on Tuesday, late afternoon tho, for a job interview (over the phone)! This week, the recruiters have decided that I'm a hot property ... next week, they'll be giving me the cold shoulder probably. Seems to be the way it goes.

I'll have the computer along so I can fulfill my job search requirements  d*

Thanks for the kind words on the progress I'm making.  Yeah, I'd like to be much farther along, but I tend to find myself taking a break around noon/1 pm and standing there watching the weather, the wildlife, and the view.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 25, 2010, 03:50:39 PM
Great progress!  I'm sorry we didn't make it down to help :(  We would gladly do it becuase sometimes company is the key ;)

However, as you mentioned the weather sucked and we needed to get the roof on!  Sheesh.

Anyway, I'm impressed bud!  Got all those up alone?  WOW!  Bravo!

Yeah, I did it all by myself! I surprised even me! ... altho, I think that in doing so, I aggravated a problem that has been slowly developing in my back due to a motorcycle accident from 10 years ago.  So, I think it's actually a good thing.  This way I'm aware of it, and am getting it treated before it goes to the point where surgery is the suggested option.  Currently, it's simply inconvenient.  If I hadn't, it would have kept on getting worse, and by the time it was found, it would be a pain in the back, literally! :(

Thankfully I haven't been told I can't do anything yet, so by golly, I'm not going to stop doing things!

As for making it down, not to worry - gotta get the roof on.  I just hope it didn't rain nearly as much as the forecast said it was going to over the last week or so.

I know I'll get the rafters up.  It's the sheathing that has me concerned at this point.  I'll probably do some of it fairly easily, but once I get to having to do the top, at the ridge, I will be slowing down a bit.  Thankfully I discovered that the neighbor rented his place to a guy I met up there 2 years ago that works for the DNR ... so I might be able to shanghi ... er, talk him into a little bit of help ;D

Then the paper, and the shingles/metal/whatever....

Maybe  should rethink this 12:12 pitch thing ... :-\
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 01, 2010, 08:07:04 PM
Well, this trip was a bit of a bust.  >:(

I got up there on Monday as planned, went back into town to get scaffolding, and got it set up.  Then the craziest things happened.  I realized that I am nearing my ## birthday - in otherwords, I'm gettin' old - and my fear of heights kicked in, and it was then that I began to understand that I'm not the indestructable 20-something that I once was.  How does that song go? I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was? Something like that.

Anyway, I thought I figured out how to do it without the scaffold, and feel safer about it.  Took the scaffold back on Tuesday morning, and had breakfast, and got lumber and sheathing.  I started by cutting the roof rafters and getting them prepped and then putting up the joists for the loft floor.

Then I had to head into town to have a phone interview for a possible job.  So I went to the store, too, and by the time I was headed back to the lumberyard for the last of what I needed, they were closed.  Ah, well, headed back up and took it easy, trying to convince myself that the loft floor wasn't all that high.

Next morning (Wednesday, for those that are counting), I went for breakfast, got the last of the roof rafters, and went back up.

It was then that reality sank in.

There is no way I am going to get the roof on by myself.  Yes, my fear of heights, but also, the knowledge that if I fell from up there, I was out at the corner of no and where, and I was there alone, gave me pause.

So, I am going to have to find some help.  Hopefully in the next couple weeks I can get help and then get up there and finish drying it in.

On the up side, I saw a doe and two fawns, and a turkey hen.  I'm hoping that means that there are more of them all up there this fall!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on July 02, 2010, 03:18:01 AM
On the bright side at least you realized it before you were busted up laying on the ground trying to figure out how you're getting out of there.  

There have been times I wished my Guardian Angel would have tapped me on the shoulder a bit harder...  Mine works a lot of OT to begin with so I can see why on occasion I manage to learn the hard way.  :)  I've heard "stupidity should hurt."  I've proven that sometimes it does.  d*  ::)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 02, 2010, 06:48:28 AM
On the bright side at least you realized it before you were busted up laying on the ground trying to figure out how you're getting out of there.  

There have been times I wished my Guardian Angel would have tapped me on the shoulder a bit harder...  Mine works a lot of OT to begin with so I can see why on occasion I manage to learn the hard way.  :)  I've heard "stupidity should hurt."  I've proven that sometimes it does.  d*  ::)

First, I must apologize to the group for my "whining" ... I'm just getting a bit frustrated with it all. The plan was to have had it dried in by now and working on the siding and interior the rest of the summer.  Ah well - best laid plans, etc...

I hear what you're saying about the guardian angel ... I've known too many guys that had problems while working alone that I guess I actually did learn from their mistakes! (imagine that!?! ???) - plus my own experience with the motorcycle (even tho it happened in front of a lot of people), has made me quite cautious - and aware of not only my limitations, but the sweetness of life itself.

So, today begins the search for some young bucks that don't mind a bit of work off the ground.

The other 'up-side' is that with the exception of 10 pieces of OSB for the roof sheathing, I have all the lumber I need for getting it "finished" - at that point it's simply paper and shingles and siding left to finish the outside.  And I'm still debating what to use for siding.

And the OSB has actually gone down in price.  The pieces that I used for the subflooring were priced at $13.95 per sheet... this weekend the same stuff was only 10.95 a sheet. Not too bad a drop, I'd say - still not the $6.95 from last summer, but headed in the right direction  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Tom on July 02, 2010, 04:38:33 PM
For the most part I too work alone. When I need help I ask, but it makes for slow progress... and patience is sooooo hard. if you have any helpful tips for working alone, let me know.

But yeah, I feel your pain and everyone needs to whine now and then

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 15, 2010, 02:06:50 PM
The schedule will have to change now ... the trips up will have to be shorter ...

I am now among the employed once more!  :)

Of course, that means that I'll be able to afford beer and steaks for those that help when I do get up there!  ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on July 15, 2010, 03:42:55 PM
 :)  Did I hear beer?

You know that is the universal currency of construction labor. 

Glad to hear your revenue stream is directionally correct.  In this economy it seems just treading water is winning. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 15, 2010, 05:10:08 PM
:)  Did I hear beer?

You know that is the universal currency of construction labor.  

Glad to hear your revenue stream is directionally correct.  In this economy it seems just treading water is winning.  


Yeah, I start Monday ... and it will be great to begin once more to have +'s in front of the flow rather than the '-' signs....

As far as the universal currency is concerned, I also don't pay in Budweiser, Schlitz, MGD, or any "lite" currency ... unless specifically asked for - most people I know actually enjoy the Sam Adams, Moose Drool, or other micro brews...  :)  I should really brew my own once more.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on July 15, 2010, 05:49:06 PM
Moose Drool = the gold standard.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Foosedrool.jpg&hash=e06de4a9449f9161759da6cd3182f129)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 25, 2010, 03:49:25 PM
Ok, the schedule has been cleared with the secretary ...  So this is a semi-official, official call for volunteers/help.

I will be headed up to the Ranch on the weekend of September 11 to put the roof up.  Anyone wishing to help can let me know via the thread or IM me with your phone # or email and I will arrange a way to guide you in to the property.

I will provide lunches and such (and beer, too!  :) )  And I can figure out something for dinner on Saturday for those that hang around.  (I need to figure out how to get the grill up there along with all the tools)

The project will be simply to put up the roof rafters and the roof decking - maybe to get as far as the shingles done, but if not, that's ok.  I'll arrange another party again later  ;D

Thanks to all who volunteer to help in advance!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2010, 04:09:48 PM
Ok, the schedule has been cleared with the secretary ...  So this is a semi-official, official call for volunteers/help.

I will be headed up to the Ranch on the weekend of September 11 to put the roof up.  Anyone wishing to help can let me know via the thread or IM me with your phone # or email and I will arrange a way to guide you in to the property.

I will provide lunches and such (and beer, too!  :) )  And I can figure out something for dinner on Saturday for those that hang around.  (I need to figure out how to get the grill up there along with all the tools)

The project will be simply to put up the roof rafters and the roof decking - maybe to get as far as the shingles done, but if not, that's ok.  I'll arrange another party again later  ;D

Thanks to all who volunteer to help in advance!

Might be able to make that -- kinda far out though!  But don't let me forget -- maybe Josh and I can treck out around then :D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on July 25, 2010, 04:24:54 PM
Keep me in the loop too.  Not sure if that works with on my Calendar but if I'm there, I'm there.  ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: TeeCee19 on July 26, 2010, 09:52:58 AM
Hey guy..Loving your post so far. You and I seem to be in agreement with building a storage shed first. It will be my first build EVER. Im nervous and yet anxious. My post is titled Oldest Town in East Texas. Your postings will be sorta a "guide" for me. No pressure..LOL..anyway..looks great so far...My shed might be a tad smaller..8' X 10'. Not sure yet though..Does the 12' X 12' work out okay with cutting, etc...??? Also, today,  I am headed  to find the book, Building Alone.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Tom on July 26, 2010, 11:20:05 AM
TeeCee,
Do a search for Jaw Horse. Menaards sells them for about $180. It's such a help when working alone.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 30, 2010, 06:32:17 PM
Hey guy..Loving your post so far. You and I seem to be in agreement with building a storage shed first. It will be my first build EVER. Im nervous and yet anxious. My post is titled Oldest Town in East Texas. Your postings will be sorta a "guide" for me. No pressure..LOL..anyway..looks great so far...My shed might be a tad smaller..8' X 10'. Not sure yet though..Does the 12' X 12' work out okay with cutting, etc...??? Also, today,  I am headed  to find the book, Building Alone.

The 12' X 12' works great for 16" center studs because it's a multiple of 4' (3 * 16" = 48") ... makes the math a bit easier.  But the 8' section of yours will work out great - I would guess that the 10' wall will just need a bit more math.

I'll try not to let the pressure get to me  ;) 

As far as building the shed first, it was more a matter of finances and necessity - lack of finances made it necessary to build this smaller building first.  I would have built the first cabin right away if I'd had more than $1000 in the budget to start with.  Of course, this has goon over that budget by a few hundred  :), but that's ok.

Just keep plugging away - and the "Working Alone" book is excellent, BTW.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 30, 2010, 06:40:02 PM
Ok, the schedule has been cleared with the secretary ...  So this is a semi-official, official call for volunteers/help.

I will be headed up to the Ranch on the weekend of September 11 to put the roof up.  Anyone wishing to help can let me know via the thread or IM me with your phone # or email and I will arrange a way to guide you in to the property.

I will provide lunches and such (and beer, too!  :) )  And I can figure out something for dinner on Saturday for those that hang around.  (I need to figure out how to get the grill up there along with all the tools)

The project will be simply to put up the roof rafters and the roof decking - maybe to get as far as the shingles done, but if not, that's ok.  I'll arrange another party again later  ;D

Thanks to all who volunteer to help in advance!

Might be able to make that -- kinda far out though!  But don't let me forget -- maybe Josh and I can treck out around then :D

That would be great Erik, The more the merrier!

It definitely will be the weekend of 9/11 - I hope to head up Friday from work.  Speaking of which, after slightly over 9 months being out, this work stuff is way too much like ... well, ... WORK!

My office is 1.2 miles from the ferry (which I walk each way, every day so far), so my feet are a bit sore this week - but I've lost 4 pounds already!  So by the time I get back up there, I will have plenty of energy and be back in shape (wait, "round" is a shape, isn't it?)!

Today the Celebrity Cruise was in - and my office overlooks the dock ...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 30, 2010, 02:34:46 PM
It has really been awhile!

Well, work has had me running a bit ragged what with getting started, learning the environment, etc... and gettiing dumped into the  deep end of the pool ... finally I'm able to come up for a breath of air!  But I love what I'm doing!

Anyway, just thought I'd put up a reminder to the Okanogan gang that I'm up at the Ranch on the weekend of the 11th.  I plan on trying to make it there in the evening on Friday, with work beginning on Saturday morning.  So if you're going to volunteer to help, I will meet anyone that wants to, down at the lumber yard in the city of Okanogan (can't remember the name right now, but I'm sure google can find it).  I plan on getting to the restraunt next door for b'fast, and then heading up - about 9-ish.

If you want it, PM me for my cell phone # and you can call me of you need better directions or are running late.

Thanks to those that are willing to help ... I am planning on a great meal once the work is done on Saturday (and of course, there will be lunch, too)!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 10, 2010, 05:10:29 AM
Well, today at about noon I am heading for the Ranch ... anyone that wants to join me should IM for my cell # :D

Hopefully, I'll get most of the roof on (at least the rafters so I can put a tarp up there for the winter)

Sadly, the new job is putting a crimp in my construction plans because I'm not heading up on Thursday like I used to be able to when I wasn't expected to be at the office :-[

I've parked the truck and trailer in front of the office so security can keep an eye on it, and will have to go down and feed the meter(s) every couple hours... oh joy!  But with a 6'6" height restriction in the parking garage, I don't have much choice!  I think my truck is just over that height.

Anyway, I will post pics when I return - altho, it just dawned on me, they will be crummy phone pics since I forgot the camera! (I did remember the new compressor and oil  ;D)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 10, 2010, 10:27:14 AM
Good luck!  I wish we could be there to help but I still don't have my Jeep back.  I'm told it will be done this afternoon, then I have to take it to Les Swab to get the brakes checked and fixed (under warranty) and then finally, maybe by Tuesday or Wednesday next week) I'll be able to head back to the cabin and get back to work!

So good luck, be safe and take pics!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 13, 2010, 07:11:17 AM
I made it back in one piece, and had some welcome help from diyfrank (and his lovely wife).  Sadly, there was much to do - the front of the place had settled a bit and we had to jack it up to get it square and level again.  Then, one wall wasn't quite plumb, so we managed to get that all straightened out.

Finally we attempted the rafters.  Of course, by this time we only had a couple hours left, and managed to get 4 rafters (and the ridge board) up.

Pictures to come once I get them off the phone.

Thanks again to Frank and his wife who were willing to do the high work.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 13, 2010, 08:19:02 AM
I made it back in one piece, and had some welcome help from diyfrank (and his lovely wife).  Sadly, there was much to do - the front of the place had settled a bit and we had to jack it up to get it square and level again.  Then, one wall wasn't quite plumb, so we managed to get that all straightened out.

Finally we attempted the rafters.  Of course, by this time we only had a couple hours left, and managed to get 4 rafters (and the ridge board) up.

Pictures to come once I get them off the phone.

Thanks again to Frank and his wife who were willing to do the high work.

Awesome!  Sorry I missed the party :(  The Jeep is still in the shop but I'm hopeful it will be done today -- when is your next trip?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 13, 2010, 12:04:54 PM
I'm not sure when the next trip will be.

Between work, and the kids and the wife, I'm going to be kept fairly busy through the beginning of October.  I might get up there mid-October, weather permitting.  everything I hear says that it's going to be an early, and wet winter, which means the place will be snowed in early this year (I hope not, tho)

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 22, 2010, 02:23:54 PM
Just because the schedule is uncertain doesn't mean that the planning quits!

I think I have determined that I am going to build the entire "second floor" - it was going to be a loft over 1/2 of it, but in thinking about how I'm going to go about putting the rest of the roof up and everything else that I want to happen with the "Shed" I have decided that I am going to just make it a full loft and be done with it.

However, that means that I need to figure out how/where to put the "stairs" and all the fun stuff that goes along with stairs.  Which is going to be a trip in a 12' X 12' building.  Yeah, they probably aren't going to be code, but I read someplace that they don't need to be if they are leading to a loft with a floorspace of less than 200 ft sq.  Since this will only be 144 ft sq, I guess that qualifies.  So, what I need to do regardless of how narrow or steep they are going to be, is figure out how to frame for them!

I figure that I will only need to interrupt one of the floor joists for the stairwell, so that means that I will need to figure out how to support the end(s) of that joist that would otherwise simply hang out in space.

One good thing about this, I think, is that I can plan the stairs to that they will come up into the loft in the center where it will be easier to stand upright.

I figure I am going to put them against the back wall, running up in the same direction as the joists run.

Anyone have any tips on framing the top of the stairs in?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Bob S. on September 22, 2010, 05:07:08 PM
do you think a bump out for a U shaped stair would work in this scenario best?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: jdejarn on September 22, 2010, 07:37:12 PM
It's almost worthwhile looking into a fold-down option, either an attic ladder or a hinged walk-up with pulleys to raise it.  I thought about both in my initial designs, then decided to build a 2-angle stairway in a corner.  At 16X20 there is room and the dogs will be able to manage it better.  That or build narrow up a back wall and fill in the underside with shelves, open face storage, whatever.

I have seen stairs built like blocks as a 10" rise and run in a very tight area and use the underside as storage or even a small kitchen or food prep underneath.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Tom on September 23, 2010, 02:46:55 AM
Just keep in mind that the tighter you build it, the harder it will be to get furniture up there.
Looking forward to seeing it
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 23, 2010, 06:22:30 AM
do you think a bump out for a U shaped stair would work in this scenario best?

Nope, no can do - the walls are already in place and it would be more work that I think it's worth to put a bumpout in at this point.  Had I thought I was going to do this to begin with, I probably would have done something like that, tho
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 23, 2010, 06:25:15 AM
It's almost worthwhile looking into a fold-down option, either an attic ladder or a hinged walk-up with pulleys to raise it.  I thought about both in my initial designs, then decided to build a 2-angle stairway in a corner.  At 16X20 there is room and the dogs will be able to manage it better.  That or build narrow up a back wall and fill in the underside with shelves, open face storage, whatever.

I have seen stairs built like blocks as a 10" rise and run in a very tight area and use the underside as storage or even a small kitchen or food prep underneath.

This is sort of the plan.  I like the option of the fold down, and I'll look into it, but I think a "normal" stairs will be a bit better - altho it will be a bit narrower and steeper.

I'm not too worried about getting furniture up there - mainly it's just a place that I want to keep clear to throw a sleeping bag and a mat down (or inflatable mattress).
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: SkagitDrifter on September 23, 2010, 06:45:34 AM


I will be building something like this for the access to our loft...

http://alwardwoodworking.com/images/stairway_7alarge.jpg

To fit a set of stairs in a 12x12 room is going to be tight.
Our footprint is 20x30 and I still don't want to give up the floor space for a staircase.
Something to think about.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on September 23, 2010, 06:51:53 AM
That's a nice looking ladder. I don't think they can be called stairs.  To me stairs are something that can be walked up or down. When it's so steep that going down forwards in the normal manner would be dangerous or impossible it becomes a ladder.     Maybe an elevator would be better suited to a 12x12.   ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: SkagitDrifter on September 23, 2010, 07:30:26 AM

Another option is to keep it simple.
I got this old wood ladder at a garage sale for $10.
It's built like the proverbial brick ^%*! house.
I'm using it as a temporary until I can get the final one built.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi143.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr158%2FSkagitdrifter%2FDSC06538.jpg&hash=32f8ce1358f933fd90566d05f0d99c4c)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 23, 2010, 10:57:33 AM

Another option is to keep it simple.
I got this old wood ladder at a garage sale for $10.
It's built like the proverbial brick ^%*! house.
I'm using it as a temporary until I can get the final one built.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi143.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr158%2FSkagitdrifter%2FDSC06538.jpg&hash=32f8ce1358f933fd90566d05f0d99c4c)

Both this and the other one (which I really like, BTW) are options, but there is one difference, there won't be any area open to the ceiling. it will all be a floor through which the ladder/stairs will lead.  It's the framing around that entry to the upstairs that has me a bit concerned.  I can't seem to find any information or websites that describe how to frame a stairwell.  they will tell you how to do the stringers, and such, but not the parts that the stairs are actually affixed to!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: dug on September 23, 2010, 03:34:40 PM
Quote
I figure that I will only need to interrupt one of the floor joists for the stairwell, so that means that I will need to figure out how to support the end(s) of that joist that would otherwise simply hang out in space.

I going to guess, and if I'm wrong maybe some will chime in and tell you how it's really done!  ;D

The way you describe it it seems you could double the third joist from the wall and use a double, or triple header spanning from the doubled joist to the joist against the wall, supported by jack studs (on the wall side). All tied together with structural hangers.

Haven't read the whole thread lately so I'm not sure what the dimensions are but it seems that you would need some crazy steep stairs to do it that way.  ???
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 23, 2010, 04:07:34 PM
Quote
I figure that I will only need to interrupt one of the floor joists for the stairwell, so that means that I will need to figure out how to support the end(s) of that joist that would otherwise simply hang out in space.

I going to guess, and if I'm wrong maybe some will chime in and tell you how it's really done!  ;D

The way you describe it it seems you could double the third joist from the wall and use a double, or triple header spanning from the doubled joist to the joist against the wall, supported by jack studs (on the wall side). All tied together with structural hangers.

Haven't read the whole thread lately so I'm not sure what the dimensions are but it seems that you would need some crazy steep stairs to do it that way.  ???

That's what I'm talking about.  Thanks! 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 12, 2010, 12:24:30 PM
Well, this sucks.

I just came from a meeting with my boss and due to the company scaling back the scope of the project, and budget cuts, etc... my last day will be Friday.

The good news is that he said I can use him as a reference, and stuff like that there.  He is looking around the company for a place to stick me - at least short term if he can, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sorta sucks 'cause my b'day is coming up in 2 weeks.  Happy b'day to me  >:(

I hope that it's picking up out there in the job market - like it appears to be.  We shall see.

On the bright side, I'll have more time to get to the property and work on the place.  No money for it, but plenty of time
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on October 12, 2010, 02:41:19 PM
Sorry to hear that. Let's hope and pray that your lucks runs about the same as Oljarhead. You'll get some cabin work done and then a job will come along and take your free time away.   :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: diyfrank on October 12, 2010, 03:53:32 PM
Bummer, I think this winter is going to be pretty bad for me also. :-\
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 13, 2010, 07:16:16 AM
Well, it's not really so bad.  For a while before I got this position, I was doing some independent stuff for a company that I contacted yesterday, and they still have some work that I can do.  No bennie's and the rate isn't my usual, but it's money coming in, so that's not too bad.

Got resume's out already and we'll see what happens.

Meanwhile, I'm still hoping to get up there for late deer season.  It would be nice to fill the freezer.

Thanks for the good wishes Don - it always seems to work that way doesn't it?

Frank, hopefully we'll both make it through the winter and then you can come and do some road creation for me up there in the summer
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on October 23, 2010, 08:52:09 PM
I'm sorry to hear of your troubles my friend :(  However, one never knows what might be around the corner -- shoot me PM or EM and I'll chat a bit about your skillset and maybe an idea I have ;)  No promises but something I was thinking about.

Now, good luck for deer season!  Josh and I saw many deer today and watched two bucks bounding away at ~600 yards out.  My 16x35 binos just barely made out the antlers on one which I felt was most likely a 5x5 but not 100% sure because the light was fading.  We're going back in the AM to try again but I wish we were at the cabin!

One thing about work (22.5 hours Friday/Saturday) is that it can get in the way of our plans!!

Good luck and maybe we can hook up during Elk season?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on October 24, 2010, 05:34:39 AM
Bummer about the employment situation.  I know a lot of folks in that same spot.  This is going to be a tough winter for many.

I've been very lucky, just enough work to keep things floating - not adding to the savings though.  The plan drawing is sporadic but there has been a steady stream of tool belt jobs.  Passed on a few that paid less than I was making 20+ years ago...  Tough times out there.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 27, 2010, 02:06:32 PM
I'm sorry to hear of your troubles my friend :(  However, one never knows what might be around the corner -- shoot me PM or EM and I'll chat a bit about your skillset and maybe an idea I have ;)  No promises but something I was thinking about.

Now, good luck for deer season!  Josh and I saw many deer today and watched two bucks bounding away at ~600 yards out.  My 16x35 binos just barely made out the antlers on one which I felt was most likely a 5x5 but not 100% sure because the light was fading.  We're going back in the AM to try again but I wish we were at the cabin!

One thing about work (22.5 hours Friday/Saturday) is that it can get in the way of our plans!!

Good luck and maybe we can hook up during Elk season?

Sent you an email ... well, I'm heading up for late Archery for both seasons and at least for deer season, it's "any" deer - well, black tail, I guess - so I certainly hope there's no white tail up there ... kinda hard for me to tell apart not having seen them together someplace.

I'd enjoy getting together during Elk season if I get up there ... suddenly the "honey-do" machine got cranked up and there's lot's to do - altho, I've been told that should go hunting if I want to, since I'm not working during the week and can get stuff done then - we'll see.   :o

I hear you tho, Yonderosa, it does seem a bit tough out there.  I was in a contract position that was supposed to go direct in a couple months, but in working out the budget for next year, they decided that since there wasn't a customer in the wings for what we were developing it could simply go on life support and have it's budget cut, scope scaled back and two of us laid off, while others got shuffled around the company for other projects that had revenue.

Can't say I blame them, just puts me back to wishing the garden had produced better this summer  :-[  However, this too shall pass and life will go on.  Back to piecework I go!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on October 27, 2010, 08:17:25 PM
Sitka and Columbia Black Tails are really just small Muley's (horns are the same) so different then White Tails...and the White Tails are bigger.

When is Archery Elk?  I was thinking Modern Rifle was coming up...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 28, 2010, 12:14:33 PM
Sitka and Columbia Black Tails are really just small Muley's (horns are the same) so different then White Tails...and the White Tails are bigger.

When is Archery Elk?  I was thinking Modern Rifle was coming up...

That's what I figured ... Archery Elk begins Saturday... at least from what I can tell in the rule book.  Of course, it depends on what GMU you are hunting... Sheesh the rules - THE RULES!  What a hodgepodge of a mess they are
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 06, 2010, 09:06:18 AM
Well, the job search, health insurance, a truck repair (that still isn't finished) all took care of going hunting. :(  I was truly hoping to get up there this year - ah well.

The plan is to head up as soon as the snow is out (unless I win the lottery and can buy an ATV or something).  Of course, when that will be is pretty much anyone's guess.  And even if I go by the highway cam that's closest to the property, it still won't be completely accurate.  I wish I could figure out a way to put up a cam at the Ranch and have it send me a picture a couple times a day, but internet is non-existent there.

#8 cylinder is missing on the truck, and I've replaced the COP and the plug and it's still missing, so, it looks like I'll have to spend the big bucks to have someone look at it and figure out what's wrong.

And the topper was that I discovered that the place I last did a contract through wasn't required to offer COBRA coverage, nor is it mandatory that they offer anything from the state, so there was a scramble to find health insurance - especially since we have a couple of teenagers in the house!  

AH, yes, isn't life fun! d*  On the job front, the job I was in disappeared because funding was cut (no customer yet) - then a job I interviewed for gave me the feedback, "they really liked you and if the funding for the project hadn't been cut, they were planning to bring you on board" ...   :-\ ... then I interview for another and am told, "the account manager was pissed - they told him that you were good, but they hired someone from internally"   >:(  I just burst out laughing when the recruiter told me that one.  She must have thought I was cracking up! :)

So it looks like I'm interviewing well, but the jobs are evaporating ... and yet, I'm told the economy is improving!  HA!  I say again, HA!

Obviously, I am still looking...I am hoping that things will improve after the first of the year (this time of year is ALWAYS slow for job hunting)

But enough of my woes ... thanks to DIYFrank for keeping an eye out for some logs for me via craigslist ... .hopefully I'll spot that ad again soon and be able to pick up a few.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on December 06, 2010, 10:47:44 AM
Hmm...Jeep goes in deep snow ;)

If the truck is missing on #8 then do a compression test and see if it's reading something different then the others.  Are there other symptoms?  How many miles?

After much fighting with mine with similar issues it turned out to be a sunk valve :(  Cost me $1200 to have the top end rebuilt but the Road Warrior is much happier now.

Erik
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 07, 2010, 06:09:09 AM
Hmm...Jeep goes in deep snow ;)

If the truck is missing on #8 then do a compression test and see if it's reading something different then the others.  Are there other symptoms?  How many miles?

After much fighting with mine with similar issues it turned out to be a sunk valve :(  Cost me $1200 to have the top end rebuilt but the Road Warrior is much happier now.

Erik


Hmmm ... Come to think of it, there is a bit of a ticking sound I meant to investigate.  Lord I certainly hope it's not going to be a rebuild.  She's got 145,000 on her and runs like a top otherwise.  I think I have a buddy local that has a compression guage.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on December 08, 2010, 06:37:59 AM
Hmm...Jeep goes in deep snow ;)

If the truck is missing on #8 then do a compression test and see if it's reading something different then the others.  Are there other symptoms?  How many miles?

After much fighting with mine with similar issues it turned out to be a sunk valve :(  Cost me $1200 to have the top end rebuilt but the Road Warrior is much happier now.

Erik


Get the compression tested -- then if it's good do a thorough cleaning of the injectors, replace (if you haven't already) the plugs, wires, cap and rotor (all ignition stuff that can be easily replaced without costing an arm and a leg) and also get someone with a code reader to check codes (unless you did that already).



Hmmm ... Come to think of it, there is a bit of a ticking sound I meant to investigate.  Lord I certainly hope it's not going to be a rebuild.  She's got 145,000 on her and runs like a top otherwise.  I think I have a buddy local that has a compression guage.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 11, 2010, 10:03:17 AM
Well, still no update on the truck.  It's wet weather here, and I haven't had a chance to go out and work on it.  I hope the sun pokes out this weekend, because I want to see if I can track the problem down further.

Other than that I'm a bit stuck in the house dreaming and scheming ... so it hit me as I was cruising the Cabela's website, looking at blinds and tree stands, that the loft in my shed will be almost as high as some of the tree stands they sell... not that I would probably ever go up in one of those, but I wouldn't hesitate to open the window and shoot through it if I saw one! ;D

That brought to mind another thought.  Is there some way (or someTHING) I can put/use/apply to the outside of the shed to give it a camouflage look?  Yes, I know, paint, but I'm looking for something that wouldn't look like an inexperienced amateur did it (yeah, that'd be me)

any suggestions?  Ideally it would be something like Realtree(tm) or one of those things.  I wonder if I could get a "wrap", like they use on cars and busses ... hmmm...

I know, kind of a goofy idea, but like I said, I'm sitting here a bit bored and just rollin' ideas around in my head.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on December 11, 2010, 01:55:58 PM
They have all kinds of stuff for duck blinds.  It can be spendy though.

I was just at the Cabela's wonderland yesterday.  Oh Man...  Had $150 worth of coupons and points and still managed to spend way too much!  Totally passed the fishing isles too.  Dangerous place if you have anything left on your credit limit.  Got some cool toys for the Yonderosa though  :)

When I'm after Turkeys and I have the roosted I'll set up a blind using a camo poncho sometimes.  Depending on the wind (it can turn into a sail) I might string it like a low fence or even just drape it over a clump of brush.  Just something to offer concealment while I'm drawing my bow or calling.  If I have a spot I think I can call them to decoys. I might set up something more elaborate.  So far my success is less than 50% but at least it wasn't because they saw me.  In my experience those sharp eyed hens can spot any movement without some concealment between me and them.  Once they bust you they're gone and gobblers follow.

To be totally honest, I'd have a hard time finding a better hunting spot than my front porch.  I've had Moose, BIG Deer, Turkeys, Bobcats and Bears within range.  So far I've settled for pictures.  I do enjoy hiking and stalking  but sitting on the porch would be way more effective.

Bobcat out the window of my cabin
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fobcat.jpg&hash=b076ef8c4b4c03856b49b67d67ff0ed5)

Moose from the front porch
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fune9moose2.jpg&hash=b4d813d763b429567f04ce044528db8f)

This dude strolled through the meadow inside of 75 yards last month.  This is the game cam picture my neighbor got.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2FPathfinder%2Fbigwhitail.jpg&hash=9a19ada1943caac0d07732fffb94457a)

My brother-in-law shot his Black Bear this year off his front porch literally.  The Bear had grown accustomed to raiding cabins and vehicles in the area and when my sister heard something pressing on the door my BIL went out the other door and shot him.  The neighbors have been profusely thanking him ever since.  The only picture I have of him is probably not family friendly enough for the site.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 12, 2010, 08:10:25 AM
Wow! That Bobcat looks a lot bigger than that!  And what is that electronic glow (that I assume you dropped as you move out of the way)?

Nice pics.  I had meant to get up to my place and put up the game cam Beautiful got me for my b'day, but alas, lack of job, and the resultant hole in the bank account followed by snow meant that I wasn't able to.

Ah well, next year.  Which reminds me, I need to get a couple more salt blocks... altho, I think mine was mostly used by the slow moving elk with white faces this last year.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on February 16, 2011, 05:38:47 AM
OlJarHeads's thread recently has had me thinking about next steps up at my place.  SO here's what I've come up with...

First, I'm going to pull down the roof rafters (4 of them) that we put up late last summer and the ridge board.  I've decided that I don't need a ridge board,and I'm going to put the "loft" across the entire thing.  That way I'll be able to work up at that height without feeling like I'm going to fall off any moment (fear of heights) ... then I"m going to assemble some rafter pairs and stand them up one-by-one, tying them together - I'll get all of them up that way a bit easier, I think - and then it will be a matter of making sure they are all straight up and down and secured to the walls.

Then I can continue on and finish enclosing it - and getting the shingles on and siding, etc...

The other 2 things that I really want to get accomplished up there this year is to improve the road in from the neighbors place (to the south of me) up to my place.  There are a few places where it needs to be leveled out and I'd like to widen it a foot or two. And the second thing is to cut the "driveway/road" into the shed/shack and on up to another building site I have picked out.

Of course I'd like to accomplish a LOT more, but these are the things that I think I can get done this summer at a minimum given the finances right now.  If one of these full time positions actually makes a decision, I'll also start doubling up on the payments so that I can pay it off and then only worry about the taxes.

Of course, eventually there's the issue of water - I think I'm looking at a second mortgage to put in a well, tho - about $14,000 was the estimate I got almost 3 years ago.  I still think there are places where the water is a lot closer to the surface and it should be considerably cheaper to put in a well than that.

Like OlJarHead, I'd like to get myself a bandsaw mill, but that probably won't happen until late in the year (if I get a full time job - not 6 weeks)

I also need to put up the game cam that Beautiful gave me for my birthday so I can get some pictures!

Does anyone know of someone that can drop some 75-100' cedars? I have one (maybe two) in my yard here on the wet side that we are talking about dropping. I'd like to drop them in bigger lengths so I can mill them up (they are BIG trees).  I'd hate to see them simply turned into firewood.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: SkagitDrifter on February 16, 2011, 10:12:49 AM
It will happen Java- give it time.
The employment thing will work out too- it always does.

Where are you on the wet side?  I know a few guys that are part time loggers that may be able to help with falling those cedars.
Hang in there!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on February 16, 2011, 10:25:29 AM
You'll get there!  And congrats on working, even for the short term!  I know it's tough.

Sounds like some good plans on the cabin, which is half the fun after all :)  And perhaps I can help with costs by milling some of the lumber for you?  Figure the cost of lumber you need versus what we might be able to mill and I'm sure we can reduce costs significantly!

If you get the cedars dropped (wish I could help but I'd get a pro when it's near your home etc) have them bucked into lengths that work for you (8', 10', 12' etc) depending on what you want to do with them, then see if you can find a wetside portable miller who can come and mill them up.  The pro portable guys charge about 40 to 50 cents a board foot and with the Woodmizer mills can get something like 30% more lumber out of a log then a regular mill.  Savings can be considerable!  Would kill two birds with one stone then eh?  But be sure to consider drying!  They need to be dried correctly or will warp, crack, cup etc and you could lose 40-50% of you lumber if they aren't properly stacked and stickered and protected if air drying.  Though I imagine it's better over there then the east side where humidty can be a lot lower.

Anyway, hang in there bud!  You'll get there and maybe this time when it's roof working time we might be able to come out and help!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on February 16, 2011, 10:35:21 AM
First, I'm going to pull down the roof rafters (4 of them) that we put up late last summer and the ridge board.  I've decided that I don't need a ridge board,and I'm going to put the "loft" across the entire thing.  That way I'll be able to work up at that height without feeling like I'm going to fall off any moment (fear of heights) ... then I"m going to assemble some rafter pairs and stand them up one-by-one, tying them together -

You can cut some triangles from 3/4" plywood and make gusset plates to tie the rafter pairs together at the peak. They can also take the place of collar ties. The loft floor doesn't quite make the grade as rafter ties, but on a small structure maybe that won't matter all that much.

There are goods notes on the ridge connection and rafters in general  HERE (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7767.msg99752#msg99752).
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on February 16, 2011, 03:13:36 PM
It will happen Java- give it time.
The employment thing will work out too- it always does.

Where are you on the wet side?  I know a few guys that are part time loggers that may be able to help with falling those cedars.
Hang in there!


I'm over north of Bremerton near Silverdale.  Right close to the Brownsville Marina, if that helps any.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on February 16, 2011, 03:18:02 PM
First, I'm going to pull down the roof rafters (4 of them) that we put up late last summer and the ridge board.  I've decided that I don't need a ridge board,and I'm going to put the "loft" across the entire thing.  That way I'll be able to work up at that height without feeling like I'm going to fall off any moment (fear of heights) ... then I"m going to assemble some rafter pairs and stand them up one-by-one, tying them together -

You can cut some triangles from 3/4" plywood and make gusset plates to tie the rafter pairs together at the peak. They can also take the place of collar ties. The loft floor doesn't quite make the grade as rafter ties, but on a small structure maybe that won't matter all that much.

There are goods notes on the ridge connection and rafters in general  HERE (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7767.msg99752#msg99752).

The gusset plates is the idea Don, and yeah, the loft floor might not quite make it as rafter ties ... been thinking I might just bite the bullet and replace the loft floor joists with ones that extend out beyond the walls and just make a giant triangle of it!  They'd have to extend between 16" and 24" from what I can figure.  But it would be nice and solid then, I'm guessing.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on February 16, 2011, 03:23:23 PM
You'll get there!  And congrats on working, even for the short term!  I know it's tough.

Sounds like some good plans on the cabin, which is half the fun after all :)  And perhaps I can help with costs by milling some of the lumber for you?  Figure the cost of lumber you need versus what we might be able to mill and I'm sure we can reduce costs significantly!

If you get the cedars dropped (wish I could help but I'd get a pro when it's near your home etc) have them bucked into lengths that work for you (8', 10', 12' etc) depending on what you want to do with them, then see if you can find a wetside portable miller who can come and mill them up.  The pro portable guys charge about 40 to 50 cents a board foot and with the Woodmizer mills can get something like 30% more lumber out of a log then a regular mill.  Savings can be considerable!  Would kill two birds with one stone then eh?  But be sure to consider drying!  They need to be dried correctly or will warp, crack, cup etc and you could lose 40-50% of you lumber if they aren't properly stacked and stickered and protected if air drying.  Though I imagine it's better over there then the east side where humidty can be a lot lower.

Anyway, hang in there bud!  You'll get there and maybe this time when it's roof working time we might be able to come out and help!

Well, the boss mentioned something about 8 weeks yesterday - which would be great!  but the recruiter said 6 - so I"m planning on 6, hoping for 8 (or more).

Yeah, I have to figure out dimensions for that lumber that I want milled out of the cedars ... but I don't think it will go into the shed/shack that I'm currently building - it will probably wait until the next one - where I want the road cut to - which means plenty of time for drying out the lumber once it's milled.

And yeah, I don't feel comfortable dropping them myself when they are only 30-40 feet from the house! ???  Beautiful might get a tad bit angry if I made a mistake. d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 30, 2011, 12:29:13 PM
Wow, here it is March 30th already ... and the news is that the 6 week contract is done ... however, the really good news is that I now am on a contract-to-hire position (3-6 month contract, then direct with the employer - complete with bennies - yippie!)

Beautiful is really happy about it, too!  Now, once we recover a bit from having to dip into savings to make it this far, I will be able to start putting a few bucks aside for finishing the shed up at the ranch!

What gets me is that even tho it's still buried in snow up there, and will be for a couple more months, I think, I'm getting the itch to head up that way!  I want to get restarted and finish it up!   I keep looking at the webcam for the pass that's near my place (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Traffic/passes/LoupLoup/default.aspx (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Traffic/passes/LoupLoup/default.aspx)) but I have to remember that the road into my property is shaded a lot more than the highway there.

And then there's the issue of putting together a jig for assembling my rafter/trusses so that it will go together faster.

So much to do... but I'm looking forward to it!

I find it interesting that my new position is with one of the states largest home builders...  which is owned by a large "forest products" company ... gonna get me some seedlings this spring!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: rniles on March 30, 2011, 01:05:43 PM
Wow, here it is March 30th already ... and the news is that the 6 week contract is done ... however, the really good news is that I now am on a contract-to-hire position (3-6 month contract, then direct with the employer - complete with bennies - yippie!)

Congrats on the new job!!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on March 30, 2011, 03:30:13 PM
Awesome news!

Have you thought of buying a snow mobile?  I'm thinking a good used one would be an excellent investment for you -- that and a sled so you can tow supplies up.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 31, 2011, 08:17:13 AM
Awesome news!

Have you thought of buying a snow mobile?  I'm thinking a good used one would be an excellent investment for you -- that and a sled so you can tow supplies up.

Yeah, I have thought about it - personally, I think I can do about the same with a Quad and have use year 'round, but a cheap used Snow mobile would be pretty nice to have.  I've seen a couple of the tracked vehicles, but they are a bit pricey :o

I'm going to keep my options open, tho!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on March 31, 2011, 09:51:01 AM
Yeah, I have thought about it - personally, I think I can do about the same with a Quad and have use year 'round, but a cheap used Snow mobile would be pretty nice to have.  I've seen a couple of the tracked vehicles, but they are a bit pricey :o

I'm going to keep my options open, tho!

Quad won't get you there in 2 feet of snow though :(  That's what the old sled's for :)

Of course, with a good quad and a plow attachment you could make your way there and keep the road clear I guess....another option is to have the sled there and snow shoe in to it.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 31, 2011, 10:59:26 AM
Quad won't get you there in 2 feet of snow though :(  That's what the old sled's for :)

Of course, with a good quad and a plow attachment you could make your way there and keep the road clear I guess....another option is to have the sled there and snow shoe in to it.

Yeah, I've given all those options much thought over the years... but you're right, a snow machine with a tow behind sled would be an awesome option - especially since the place is snowed in 4-6 months of the year
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: duncanshannon on March 31, 2011, 11:57:52 AM
Just found your thread and read the whole thing... good reading so far.

i'm a new land owner and going to be planning for a couple years... looking forward to reading about your build (and employment ;) )
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 08, 2011, 11:29:21 AM
With the road looking like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fimages%2Flouploup.JPG&hash=a2030e74f5853a0fa7128cf5e13efb55)

only 10 miles from my property - and at the same elevation - you would think that I could get up there! d*

Nope - 3 years ago, I waited until all the snow you see in that picture was gone, and tried ... and still didn't make it by at least a mile. :(

When that's all gone, I'll know I have a couple weeks before I can even think of attempting to get in. 

Yeah, for the 6 months of the year (ok, maybe it's only 5) that it's snowed in, I think I need a snowmobile.  I think I'm going to look for one beginning next week, since this would be the slow demand time.  Prices should be good! :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 02, 2011, 11:00:44 AM
Well, I finally have a date for going up to the Ranch! ... granted, it's only penciled in right now, but at least it is something to plan for.  Memorial Day Weekend!  [cool] :)

I can't wait - of course, a lot depends on the weather still - if the snow is out, etc... but at least I have something to shoot for.  And if that fails, I will have everything ready for the first available time after that.

But that brings me to my problem and a question as to a possible solution.  I've been looking at roof designs until I'm cross-eyed, and calculations, etc... and I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to build  the roof on this shed as a gambrel style roof.  It would give me the best headroom in the loft, and from my own perspective would be a bit easier to put up.  I could conceivably make it so that the peak of the roof was only about 6' from the floor of the loft making it a whole lot easier than working on an 8' ridge.

So, I'm wondering what the rest of you folks here think, and then also comes the biggest conundrum of all - what angles to use... how to calculate the lengths of the rafters, etc... In reading about them online, I see things like 22 degrees, 30 degrees, etc... even 18 degrees, but apparently I'm a bit dense as that's an acute angle, and I'm not sure where that angle is referenced from ... from the long side of the rafter? or the end of the rafter?  It is a bit confusing (which may simply be caused by my lake of thinking about it (or is it just my lack of thinking) over the winter)...

Anyway, that's my thoughts for now.... what are the thoughts of the rest of you?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: John Raabe on May 02, 2011, 11:39:38 AM
Forget angles and use the framing square. Layout the distance between the bearing plates on a clean subfloor snapping a chaulkline. Your layout is for an initial rafter pair that are used as templates to cut the rest. You can test these to make sure they are right before duplication.

See Wagner (http://www.countryplans.com/books.html) Chapter 9 Basic Gable Roof page 120 on...

Here is a scan of an image in the article on how to estimate rafter length.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1009.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf219%2Fcountryplans%2Frafter.jpg&hash=3e2884f7f56ef4412bee1b88537946a8)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 02, 2011, 12:06:00 PM
Thanks John ... I did that last summer - sort of.  My problem isn't so much cutting the angle right as it is getting it up something over 7' above the loft floor (which is already 8' above the subfloor)

Darn irrational fear of heights that I have. 

Of course, I could be trading in one problem (fear of heights) for another - not enough "steepness" for the snow load.  That's one thing I really don't know about.  I wish I could just slap together the rafter pair and use some sort of crane to stand them up while I nail them to the walls and to each other.  I wonder if harbor freight has such a gizmo ... 10' tall should do the trick working from the loft floor, I would think....

Edit... :  Now you've got me thinking (dangerous, I know) ... I might be able to rig some sort of crane that can give me enough leverage to pull them to the upright position without to much difficulty... hmmm...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on May 02, 2011, 01:35:55 PM
build  the roof on this shed as a gambrel style roof.  It would give me the best headroom in the loft, and from my own perspective would be a bit easier to put up. 

A question that occurs to me about a gambrel roof is how to strongly connect the pieces. The gambrel rafter as used in the factory made sheds use rafter truss plates that are pressed in hydraulically in a press or large roller; not something that can be done with a hammer. Perhaps there is something and I have not seen it.

Dimensions (especially building width) etc. (snow load) would be most useful for anyone considering giving advice.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 02, 2011, 01:43:14 PM
A question that occurs to me about a gambrel roof is how to strongly connect the pieces. The gambrel rafter as used in the factory made sheds use rafter truss plates that are pressed in hydraulically in a press or large roller; not something that can be done with a hammer. Perhaps there is something and I have not seen it.

Dimensions (especially building width) etc. (snow load) would be most useful for anyone considering giving advice.

Thanks for the reminder, Don ... it's Monday, and rainy here ... not a good combination for me to be thinking, but yeah, snow loads ... good question.  I'm going to guess, based on my extensive knowledge of watching the pass cam nearby, and my experience last year and 2 years ago ... that it gets 2-3 feet of snow each winter that stays for any period of time.  Of course, it doesn't seem to really start snowing until late December or early January.  Some wind, not a lot of sustained winds, a few gusts now and again, but I don't think there's much in the way of wind to worry about.

Building is a 12'X12' shed with walls 10' tall and a loft at the 8' level (so a 2' knee wall).

I've been crunching numbers, and I think an 8:12 might do just fine ... and lower the peak enough so that my irrational fear can be calmed a bit  d*  Maybe I just need to have someone standing around that I can hand my beer to and say, "watch this!"  ... that way my judgement is impaired sufficiently and I'll be really relaxed when I land and not have much damage (yeah, old wives tale, but still it does seem to happen that way)

BTW, your signature graphic had me going there for a second or two ... thought there was a bug in the system....
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on May 02, 2011, 04:15:33 PM
SEAW, the Structural Engineers Association of Washington state, has info on snow loads. Most of it requires a subscription to access, But here is a report that may be useful. Scroll down and look for your county/city/town location. Snow load can vary a lot from spot to spot; moving just a few miles in the mountains can make a huge difference.

http://www.seaw.org/documents/WABO-SEAW%20Snow%20Load%20White%20Paper.pdf

Local building departments should also know.


Our cabin is located in one of the many Case Study areas in the western mountains; yours may be too. I was told 50 lbs and designed for 80.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 31, 2011, 12:14:00 PM
Have I ever mentioned how I hate banks?  >:(

Well, I can add to that employers that throw their hands up and say the equivalent of "Not my job, man!" ... especially when the paycheck doesn't show up on time.  Thankfully this isn't the fault of the people I'm actually working for, but the agency that I'm working through.  Hopefully I'll be direct soon.

So, since I have checks bouncing now (I subscribe to the idea that if it's not in the account, I can't spend it, so the account is always near zero, waiting for the paycheck), I've had to empty the various savings accounts to cover the incoming expenses ... which means the building account is empty now.  :-[

Granted, once the replacement check get here, I'll be able to fill it up, but it plays havoc with the "average daily balance" that I get paid interest on! :-\

I was just getting close to having my cushion in place....   This little "emergency" will have cost me $100 by the time I'm recovered from it, what with fees and additional commute costs (ferry tickets are expensive this time of year if you have to buy them individually)

Good thing I didn't head up this weekend, or I'd really been hurting.

So, I am going to take the attitude that this means I've had my "emergency" for a while and things are going to go smoothly for the next few months!  ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 31, 2011, 12:18:42 PM
Forget angles and use the framing square. Layout the distance between the bearing plates on a clean subfloor snapping a chaulkline. Your layout is for an initial rafter pair that are used as templates to cut the rest. You can test these to make sure they are right before duplication.

See Wagner (http://www.countryplans.com/books.html) Chapter 9 Basic Gable Roof page 120 on...

Here is a scan of an image in the article on how to estimate rafter length.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1009.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf219%2Fcountryplans%2Frafter.jpg&hash=3e2884f7f56ef4412bee1b88537946a8)

John, I was just looking at this and came across the image you had posted - Thanks!  For some reason today (and considering the way my day has been, I'm REALLY surprised), it made sense!  And something just went "Click!" in my brain and I think I might actually have an understanding and a good plan for making this actually work when I get up there next time!

So, belatedly, thanks!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 06, 2011, 02:39:03 PM
So, the plan was orignally to go up last weekend - and that got changed to this the weekend just past... which didn't happen either, due to end of school, friends needing help, etc....

So, I planned on going up on the last full weekend in June (hoping to squeeze in a little Radio Field Day as well).

 So I just got off the phone with Beautiful, and it turns out that the Missouri river is flooding, and that means that I won't be able to go up the last weekend in June.

Hmmm, 'What does one have to do with the other?', you ask.

My sister, who lives in Illinois, was planning on coming out to visit us, arriving on Thursday.  How does this fit in to the mix? well, one of the things on her "bucket list" is to travel across the country by train, which was how she was planning on coming this time.  And with the Missouri, at flood levels, they aren't too sure about some of the bridges they will be crossing.

Of course, they've cancelled the train for Tuesday (tomorrow), and rescheduled for Thursday - but she won't know for certain until THursday morning, and then she'll get here on Saturday ... which means the activities we were going to do on Saturday, won't happen.  The new plan is for her to stay until the last weekend and do those things that weekend.

Ah Man plans and God laughs...

Anyway - I'm looking at it now that I'll just have more cash to get more stuff done when I'm up there - and that I'll just have to keep going up later in the year (Guess I'll be needing that snowmobile after all  ;) )

I miss being up there - and now we're getting into the hot part of the year.

Soon, very soon now  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 13, 2011, 07:57:43 AM
Hopefully one of the framing/roofing experts will see this and chime in.

I'm trying to think of simple ways to create a set of rafters.  What I'm thinking of are basically putting the rafters together (no ridge board) beforehand and then setting them into place, swinging them upright and nailing the blocking in between the rafter "sets" as I go along (after nailing them to the strong-ties that tie them to the top plate).  What I'm looking for are ideas for simple construction of the two together.  Given that the peak is a 90 degree angle is it mandatory (or even "best practice") to cut them so where they butt will be a vertical joint? or can I "lap" them on over the other? (my first guess is that I need it to be vertical)? 

Regardless of how they meet at the peak, I fully intend to have plates (gusset?) on each side of the joint for strength and stability.

Anyone with an idea on this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Karl on July 01, 2011, 10:40:19 AM
Pre-building rafters was pretty easy on my 8x10 with 7 foot walls.  Might be trickier with your height and span.

I wouldn't lap them because then your gusset plate has nowhere flat to go.

I didn't have room inside to trace them out so used the back wall and made a plywood template.  Worked it out off the center line of the building and never even had to calculate the actual length.  Cut 5 inches off each end to mach the baseplate on my saw made cutting easy.  I'm still not good at cutting the birdsmouth but at least it's in the right spot.

Cutting Jig
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1109.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh437%2Fkchriste%2F2011-06-25_1906_compact.jpg&hash=143fd98f94c664d4cfcb1fce338e5358)

Tack the peak together and then put a spacer in the birdsmouths that is exactly your building span (including sheathing).  Now fully nail the gusset plate.

Nailing Jig
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1109.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh437%2Fkchriste%2F2011-06-25_1909_compact.jpg&hash=906a16befe044e110a5d4bde46791fdc)

Screw down a strip of plywood to adjust them before fully sheathing.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1109.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh437%2Fkchriste%2F2011-06-26_1949_compact2.jpg&hash=f7460750849598d2dc2ca81f722e2463)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 06, 2011, 04:16:04 AM
Thanks Karl for the tips!

Looks like the place to be in really on the other side of 97 and further north.  Sheesh.  I did look up that way, but wasn't impressed with the realtor I had.... maybe I should have tried someone else.

Our road in is so bad that last night I was told that Beautiful didn't want to go up the property anymore  :(

So, I might be trying to make a change in the near future.  I love the place, but it does have some serious drawbacks.  Like the estimate I got was $14,000 for a well, and of course, the road in. Plus inaccessible for quite a bit of the year.

Dunno.  We'll have to see.

Again, thanks for the tips!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 06, 2011, 04:47:32 AM
Sorry to hear that!  Call Rick Gerig at Desert Realty (dirtcheapdirt.com I think).

Maybe he can help you out.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 06, 2011, 06:12:11 AM
Erik, thanks for the heads up on the realtor.

Looks like he's got some nice places on his site.  The problem will be getting what I already have sold for the $$ I'd like to get... I think.  And I'm still not 100% certain that's what's going to happen.

It's just a bit frustrating.  But I know from experience that if I expect to get to the property more than once or twice a year, she's going to have to at least want to go, too.  Besides, selling mine and buying something else is way cheaper than the alternative (I know that from experience, too)  d*

Also, it might mean being closer to some of the rest of you folks out there!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 06, 2011, 09:04:43 AM
Well, it seems there are a few other options that have occurred to me, but I'm not sure how practical they are.  I'm still thinking them through.

One thing, though, is that I've at least got an understanding that I need to get up there and finish what I've started.  I think it will help with selling the place, if that's the route we take.

Part of my own issue with getting rid of this particular piece of ground is what I had originally hoped to use it for, at least part of the time.  That being something of a "retreat" center for missionaries, clergy, and other church groups.  Again, I'm not sold on the idea that it will work for it, since it's not on a lake or river, doesn't have a stream or creek running through it, but is simply a wild piece of mountainous ground.  It does have a nice area that could be almost a natural amphitheater, and there is a lot of woods all over the place.  Conconcully, quad city in the summer, is not that far away, and the terrain on the property is such that it would lend itself to zip lines, etc...

Heck, I even came up with an idea for a pool if I could manage to put in a good enough well to fill it!  ;D

Push comes to shove, I might be able to accelerate the payoff and simply purchase another chunk of acreage that does have a "water feature", etc... which would be more of a vacation piece for us.

Nothing is ever a simple as it looks, is it? ???
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 06, 2011, 09:12:36 AM
Karl ...

I was thinking about what you said, and I think you may have misunderstood what I was talking about when I mentioned overlapping the rafters at the top.

I meant something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Franch%2FoverlappingRafters.JPG&hash=713fe6cece7a9edcf75361e69e31d133)

With the gusset plate at the top.

Any thoughts on that? (pardon my bad drawing skillz, I'm at work and all I have is MS Paint)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on July 07, 2011, 04:04:32 PM
That would be better described as a butt joint than an overlap if I understand what you mean. Lay one 2x flat on the floor and butt the other one against the end. Plywood gusset plate nailed to each side. Probably best to lay it out on the subfloor and nail in a few protruding nails, or nail down guide blocks to help hold things in place so they all come out the same. Make a test set first of course and test fit from one end of the structure to the other.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 08, 2011, 05:33:48 AM
That would be better described as a butt joint than an overlap if I understand what you mean. Lay one 2x flat on the floor and butt the other one against the end. Plywood gusset plate nailed to each side. Probably best to lay it out on the subfloor and nail in a few protruding nails, or nail down guide blocks to help hold things in place so they all come out the same. Make a test set first of course and test fit from one end of the structure to the other.

Don,

Now that you say it, I know you're right - both boards are in the same "plane" (so to speak), rather the butt ends "overlap" - as you said they butt up to each other.

It sounds like you don't see a problem with doing it this way?  I just think it would be easier to simply make certain they are square and gusset them in a jig (like you suggested, guide blocks on the floor, etc...)

Thanks for the feedback and getting my descriptions straightened out!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 26, 2011, 05:54:50 AM
Well, once again, "The best laid plans... "

I was looking forward to heading up to the property this coming weekend - having saved enough to get things pretty well finished and dried in ... but the fly in the ointment that I didn't count on was that when I went "direct" with my employer that health insurance wouldn't kick in for a month (meaning July without insurance), so we've had to use some of that cash to pay for a month of Cobra coverage (over $1000 for a month of insurance that - knock on wood - we aren't going to use)

Then again, if I'd gone up there without insurance, I probably would have done something requiring multiple thousands of dollars in treatment  d*

So, with all that is going on in August - it looks like it might be September ... altho, there is at least one weekend in August when Beautiful and the kids will be in Oregon visiting her mom, so if I can recover the building fund by then, I'm going to take off and head up then!

I just worry that the longer it goes, the more I will try to get done - and it's getting downright hot up there now days, and I won't have but a weekend (maybe + 1 day if I can talk the boss into it).  Which means I'll probably work way too hard  :o (but there's no way I can work as hard as Ol'Jarhead!  ;D)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 27, 2011, 05:13:33 AM
Aw Java!  I'm sorry to hear of the troubles!  It must be tough but hang in there and stick to your guns.  You'll make it up there again soon I'm sure!  Think positive!

And don't try working hard as me!  :o You'll just hurt like me then too! lol  d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 27, 2011, 05:55:58 AM
Oh, I know I'll get up there... At least since they won't take out for insurance at the new place for this check yet (and retirement) I'll have an extra $100 or so, which can get dumped back in the savings  :D  So I'll be almost to where I wanted to be.  Which means that I should have the funds together to finish it by mid to end of August ... I think that part of the problem is having kids at home yet during the summer.  They have so much going on that there isn't much time for anything else.

Guess that means that September/October will be busy.  I am still hoping for August sometime, tho.  Beautiful is going to see her mom with the kids in August and since I don't have any Vacation coming, I can choose to run down there (a 6+ hour drive) or run to the property (a 4.5 hour drive) ... Wish the truck got better gas mileage, tho.  I'm looking into a performance chip for it to see if I get better mileage and towing ability (not that my trailer is huge, but I might want to tow something bigger someday).

As for working as hard as you - I think that might be a bit impossible.  From what I can tell, no one works as hard as you!    :o
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 07, 2011, 08:08:06 AM
Ah, the vagaries of life.

Here it is December and my last post was July! ::)

But after a non-productive year, I have decided that I'm just not going to let it get to me.  And I am planning next year already.

I figure to have the place done (define done, j... Ok, done is roof on, loft floored, completely enclosed and windows/doors in, how's that?) ... done in three more trips.  First trip will be as soon as I can get up there after the snow is out.  When is that going to be? I have to admit, I don't really know.  Sometime in early May, I hope.  One or two trips in May, a trip in June and it should be "Done".

On the list of things to do after that are:
1. Cut a drive up to the top of my hill, where I plan to build the actual cabin, so I can get supplies up there.  This will require a bulldozer or excavator.  And that might be a bit of a hurdle to get over.   I'll have to rent one, but delivery will be a pain.

2. Buy a saw mill.  I am going to need a bunch of lumber for the actual cabin, and I plan to also make an attempt to mill my own "D" profile logs, so a mill will come in handy.

3. Fell some trees in preparation for the mill (probably before I actually buy the mill) and start de-barking them.

4. Dig the hole for the basement/foundation of the cabin.


The long range plan for the year is to get the cabin foundation/basement completed with the floor over it.  I say "long range" because it looks like the schedule for this will run to the end of November or early December if the snow allows.  Then I also want to allow for some hunt time up there, too. ;D

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 22, 2012, 10:46:21 AM
Well, Christmas has come and gone.  By sister gave me a book on my amazon wish list, "Compact Cabins: Simple Living in 1000 Square Feet or Less; 62 Plans for Camps, Cottages, Lake Houses, and Other Getaways".  Wile none of the designs in the book really fit my needs, I am getting a few ideas.  The "modular" section is interesting - especially since it uses 12X12 "modules" as the basis.

My biggest concern about most of the other designs is that they seem to have the bathroom opening right into the kitchen.  I can't seem to think but that would put some unsavory smells in the kitchen area - especially in such a small space.

Anyway, I am looking forward to getting up to the place this spring, as early as possible and finishing up my 12X12 so I can begin the "real" place in earnest.  The original design calls for 18X28, but I'm beginning to think of pushing that out by 2 feet in each direction to 20X30.  I need to get up there and fall some trees and begin the drying and striping of bark so that I have logs to begin building with once the foundation and basement are done.

It's going to be a busy couple years, I hope.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 22, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
Thought it was finally time to change the avatar to something a bit more personal. 

<-- me, at the property the weekend of Nov 12th, 2009
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MikeOnBike on January 23, 2012, 02:47:19 PM

My biggest concern about most of the other designs is that they seem to have the bathroom opening right into the kitchen.  I can't seem to think but that would put some unsavory smells in the kitchen area - especially in such a small space.


We will be putting our bathroom and kitchen on a shared wall so we can minimize the plumbing that we have to drain each time we leave during the freezing months.  I plan to slope all of the lines so they will self drain when the faucets and supply are opened.  I think if there is a smell problem it might be all over a small cabin.

We were going to start with a 20x32 but with delays and life getting in the way we now have a 10x12 and 10x14 at two different locations on the property and plans to start the 20x32 in a couple of years.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 23, 2012, 06:06:06 PM
We will be putting our bathroom and kitchen on a shared wall so we can minimize the plumbing that we have to drain each time we leave during the freezing months.  I plan to slope all of the lines so they will self drain when the faucets and supply are opened.  I think if there is a smell problem it might be all over a small cabin.

We were going to start with a 20x32 but with delays and life getting in the way we now have a 10x12 and 10x14 at two different locations on the property and plans to start the 20x32 in a couple of years.

Yup, that's pretty much what happened to me.  Got tired of waiting and started building.  Hopefully will finish this one up this summer and still have some time to start the "real" cabin.  Now that design just underwent a design change today which is going to be called release candidate 247 ...  d*

I was just thinking today that I am having difficulty sitting here waiting for the snow to go out up there... and here it is only January! :(
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 16, 2012, 11:32:01 AM
I don't know how far down the list this was when I dredged it up... I had to go to one of my posts in Ol' Jarheads thread to find a link to it!  :o ???

So, it's on the calendar for May 16th ... and the weather at the pass seems to be holding - that is the snow is retreating so that in a month I think I might be able to make it up to the property. I certainly hope so - I'll have a trailerful of roof rafter/trusses and some other lumber with me, and I'd hate to haul it all that way and then have to haul it back home again!

I've scheduled two full days of vacation, too, so I will be leaving from the office sometime on Wed afternoon, hoping to make it up there before dark.  And then I have to see what shape the floor is in as I'm sure it's been exposed to the weather for nearly 2 years now.  If it needs replacing, that will be the first thing I do, then on to the loft floor, and then the roofing job.

I am hoping to get the trusses that I plan on building this weekend at home, into place at the very least.  If I can get the sheathing on, too, that would be great!

While all this is going on, I hope to be able to take a few breaks and simply enjoy being there.  Also, one morning I'm going to go down to the diner next to the lumber yard and splurge on a chicken fried steak and eggs breakfast.  I only want to do that once - after all, we've been dieting for the last 5 weeks and I've managed to lose 30 pounds (as of this morning), so by the time I get there, I figure I'll have lost another 20 or so, and I don't want to lose the progress and find the weight I've lost again.

Of course, I'm getting itchy to get up there and get to work!  It's been far too long since my last trip.  I've already cleared it with the boss (and my job), for a couple additional weekends before we head out for family vacation the first week of July!

This weekend I buy lumber and start building the trusses. I built a small archery target stand with a roof that was a scaled down version of the roof up there, and used it as a prototype or "Proof of concept" build.  It went well, and I learned a few things that could cause me issues.  So I think I have all the "bugs" worked out of it.

I've been following most of the others in the Okanogan area up there, and you all (especially OJH) are making me wish I could get into the property - trying to budget for a snowmobile for this coming winter - and then I'll be all set... ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on April 16, 2012, 07:45:25 PM
Awesome news!  Who knows, maybe the Roadwarrior and I will be in the AO when you are!?

If we are, perhaps I'll have to drop in for a visit...not sure yet which weekend though, so don't hold your breath just yet!

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 18, 2012, 10:52:38 AM
Awesome news!  Who knows, maybe the Roadwarrior and I will be in the AO when you are!?

If we are, perhaps I'll have to drop in for a visit...not sure yet which weekend though, so don't hold your breath just yet!

Cheers
Erik
That would be great, OJH!  I'd love to have you up to the place - or at least head down to the bar & grill for a burger or something on your way past.

I am getting stoked, and I can't believe it's still 4 weeks away! :-[  But I've got the budget planned, and I'm buying supplies this weekend.  Then I'll start prepping for what needs to be done, and be ready to roll that Wed afternoon out of the office. :)

I want to try to get the loft floor put in (which will also entail replacing the loft floor joists) and then get the roof rafters up - at the very least. (I tend to over-estimate what I can get done, but I'm going to try!) I'd love to get the roof sheathing on, but that's where the over-estimation might be.

I'm working out, in my head at least, how I'm going to do it all, so we'll see.

It's been far too long!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 27, 2012, 05:01:21 AM
Starting to accumulate the items for the trip...

I've arranged a flatbed trailer to take pre-assembled roof trusses up to the property.  I'm also going to take a number of sheets of OSB for sheathing.  I've got my strong-ties, and a few other things.  Ran the compressor the other day, too and it's working fine.  I think I need to have some extra compressor oil with me, tho.  And I need to dig out the generator and change the oil (It's never been changed, and I've had it for about 7 years! :o )

Then, of course, there is the mes of tools, and other camping stuff (food, etc...) that I need to get organized.

I was looking at longer ladders (since I'm going to be doing the roof) and had decided on a Werner, multi-position 26' ladder... from Lowe's.  On a whim I searched for a multi-position ladder (thinking a knock-off) on Amazon and up popped the Werner I was going to get from Lowes (which they didn't have in stock) for $60 less, and Prime shipping (free second day).  I thought, what a deal! Ordered it Wednesday, and it arrived yesterday!  That $70/year for prime sure paid off this time!

My son is going to be having his b'day party - a total of 3 teenage boys, playing video games... I wonder if I can harness some of that energy to help with some of this "heavy lifting" (yeah, and pigs can fly, too  ::) )

It's going to be a busy weekend at home ... but I'm looking forward to it. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 30, 2012, 06:32:53 AM
Well, here's what I'm prepping to take up there when I finally head up.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.com%2Fjhasz%2FIMG_3388-600X400.JPG&hash=2e6d50b39162ce0e5108b967a2600974)

I'm wondering if the gusset needs to be larger?  The top plate will be about a foot up from the bottom of the rafter.

It's all tied together with about 25 nails per side, and the gussets are made from 19/32 ply
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on April 30, 2012, 08:07:47 AM
Well, that gusset is not going to do much more than hold the upper ends of the rafters together. They are doing the job of a collar tie. Collar ties are spec'd at 1x4 lumber minimum; I would expect most inspectors would accept those as fine for collar ties if there are one on each side.

Collar ties don't ever really take the place of rafter ties though.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 30, 2012, 08:31:04 AM
Well, that gusset is not going to do much more than hold the upper ends of the rafters together. They are doing the job of a collar tie. Collar ties are spec'd at 1x4 lumber minimum; I would expect most inspectors would accept those as fine for collar ties if there are one on each side.

Collar ties don't ever really take the place of rafter ties though.

Well, what I'm hoping is that once in place, I can put the sheathing up there and be on it myself while putting the felt and roofing on.  Then, of course, it needs to hold the snow in the winter.

Ok, so I just went and looked to make sure I understood what you meant by collar tie and rafter tie...  So what I'll wind up with is something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.com%2Fjhasz%2FDiagram.jpg&hash=e8defcf1a050eaed896158a1adfd57c5)

The "rafter tie" is about 18" down from the actual rafter.   Had I thought about it before building to what I have now, I would have extended the loft floor joists out to where the roof rafters would meet them, effectively creating a rafter tie at that point.  But I wasn't thinking  d* about that at the time.  I was going to do a ridge board and simply set the rafters on the top plate.

Well, sorta like I'm doing now, but without the ridge board complications. (not that it's that complicated, just easier on this scale, I think  d*)

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on April 30, 2012, 08:32:56 AM
The collar tie goes up in the top 3rd of the rafters...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 30, 2012, 08:46:29 AM
The collar tie goes up in the top 3rd of the rafters...

Yup, once I looked, I realized that's what Don meant when he said the plates would suffice as collar ties.  It seems to me that someplace in my thread here, we discussed the loft floor joists as "substituting" for rafter ties, and that for this particular application it would probably work.  So, that's what I'm going with on that one  ;) - even tho the rafter tie is supposed to be in the bottom 1/3 of the rafter.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on April 30, 2012, 08:50:19 AM
Collar tie vs rafter tie

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq305%2Fdjmbucket%2Fconstruction%2Fframing_large-1.jpg&hash=0f1c99702fc506e635e1036931d51556)

I think this is my most frequently used image  :)

The only real "saving grace" is that the span is relatively small; that will hold the outward forces to lower levels. Not a good idea for larger spans.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 30, 2012, 09:15:25 AM
Collar tie vs rafter tie

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq305%2Fdjmbucket%2Fconstruction%2Fframing_large-1.jpg&hash=0f1c99702fc506e635e1036931d51556)

I think this is my most frequently used image  :)

The only real "saving grace" is that the span is relatively small; that will hold the outward forces to lower levels. Not a good idea for larger spans.

I found that image as well.  That's the one that clarified for me what you were talking about.

So, I'm hoping that the 16" - 18" (altho it might be more like 12" by the time I'm done putting 2x10" joists and 11/16 subfloor down in the loft) of the kneewall won't be a big issue at that point.  even though it's below the bottom 1/3 of the rafters.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 04, 2012, 04:42:17 AM
Last weekend I managed to put together 5 of the rafters. This weekend will be the remaining 5.  I need to get together with the friend that is lending me a flatbed trailer to tow them up there on, and start loading stuff.  I've made sure the compressor works and the next thing I need to do is go over the generator and see if it needs anything.  This will include starting it up and making sure it still "Gens"  :D

I figure the Genset and compressor will go into the back of the truck.  Most everything else will go on the trailer.

The biggest concern once I get up there is - will I have to replace the shed floor.  It's been exposed to the weather now for two years, and I fear the OSB is going to be a bit too soft in most places.  If so, I'll have a sawsall and cut it out and put in some support for the new and put in new stuff.  A bit more work, but I'd rather do that than fall through the floor! d*

I've been debating when to put the strong ties on the rafters.  Do it now with carful measuring, or tack them on the top plate where I want them and set the rafters in them then?  I am leaning toward installing them on the top plate first so that I can adjust the rafter/trusses as I go, rather than trying to force fit them.

I am beginning to get anxious to get up there.  Unfortunately there was snow on the mountain night before last and even tho it seems to be mostly gone (in the web cam at the pass about 4 miles from my place), I am concerned about those parts of the road in that are mostly shaded.  :( Praying for HOT weather the next week and a half.

The boss tells me our department is going on a field trip on the 16th ... Which is the day I'm leaving from the office.  I'm not sure how that will impact the time I get to leave, but with the longer days, I should be up there before dark regardless. :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 07, 2012, 09:51:54 AM
New question for all the pundits here...  ;D

7/16, 19/32, or 23/32 for roof sheathing?

Pitch is 12/12.  I think I'm going to be going with steel (I found a source that is reasonably inexpensive).

I'm leaning towards the 19/32 myself.  Because it's thicker and therefore stiffer than the 7/16, but not as heavy as the 23/32.

Is this a good choice?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on May 07, 2012, 10:20:50 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 07, 2012, 10:25:24 AM
Gotta love those succinct answers that MD gives.

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 07, 2012, 10:28:49 AM
Hmmm....5/8" is what I used I believe.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on May 07, 2012, 10:40:48 AM
19/32" is what is commonly referred to as 5/8"       5/8 = 20/32
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 08, 2012, 10:55:31 AM
Starting to plan the NEXT trip already  ???  In discussions with a buddy of mine over the weekend, we came up with a way to save me 8-10 hours of work, and pretty much ensure that the roof gets on! :)  That, along with a bunch of other "small" stuff leaving pretty much simply putting the shingles or steel on next time.

So, I figure maybe next time I should also try to get someone up there to help with the cutting of the drive (bulldozer or excavator) and other excavation tasks I need/want done.  Depends on what I might be able to get done in a days rental, I guess.

I'm thinking if I laid it out, the equipment operator could be digging away while I'm shingling the roof, and I'd get more bang for my buck, so to speak.

I'm leaning towards steel, but am still pricing it all out, trying to find the best deal - and remembering that in most cases, I'll have to pay shipping - unless I can find it locally (either Okanogan or the wetside)

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 08, 2012, 11:44:51 AM
Steel in the dry woods -- it's a must in my book!!!

An excavator operator will know a LOT more about what can be done (and it's always been a LOT more then I expect)....so talk to one about what you want done ahead of time.

Tom was able to dig a small well in rocky ground with granite down at 4 feet, then dig a huge root cellar hole and take out a ton of trees and dig a grey water drain trench for me and more....all in 10hrs of trackhoe time including driving around  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 08, 2012, 11:57:50 AM
Steel in the dry woods -- it's a must in my book!!!

An excavator operator will know a LOT more about what can be done (and it's always been a LOT more then I expect)....so talk to one about what you want done ahead of time.

Tom was able to dig a small well in rocky ground with granite down at 4 feet, then dig a huge root cellar hole and take out a ton of trees and dig a grey water drain trench for me and more....all in 10hrs of trackhoe time including driving around  :)
Yup, that's a lot!

In order of importance to me:
1. I want a drive cut into the side of the "mountain" ... elevation change maybe 150feet or so - probably be a 300-400 feet long (just a guesstimate on the length), perhaps some brush/logs simply pushed out of the way - I want to be able to drive up the hill this year to the site of where the "big cabin" will eventually be built.

2. Foundation/basement hole dug.

I talked to someone a couple years ago that said that would be an 8 hour day or less (if my memory remembers right).

To bad you aren't closer - we could split a rental - your place one day, mine the next - or something like that.  Of course, I won't be ready (and neither will the budget) until at least the weekend of the 8th of June.  It's got to be that weekend or the weekend after that.

I'm already figuring the budget for getting someone up there with an excavator then.

Sadly, after those two weekend, the summer just gets full as our anniversary  :) is the 22nd, and then we're headed to Glacier and Yellowstone the first week of July!

I don't think I'll get another free weekend until August - when it's HOT up there  :D  But then, I hope to have my sawmill by then, so I'll head up and mill some wood for paneling and such
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 09, 2012, 01:02:37 PM
Congrats on the 22 years!

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 09, 2012, 01:46:25 PM
Congrats on the 22 years!
Yeah,that would be nice, but it's only 3 years - on the 22nd (of June) ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 21, 2012, 10:18:15 AM
DOH!  Well 3 years then!

Booked the trackhoe for the 8th (pickup) :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 21, 2012, 10:20:52 AM
DOH!  Well 3 years then!

Booked the trackhoe for the 8th (pickup) :)

Cool!  So, you need to give me a call or I need to give you a call and work out the details of when he's going to be where, and how much it's going to cost, etc... ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 21, 2012, 10:37:35 AM
Cool!  So, you need to give me a call or I need to give you a call and work out the details of when he's going to be where, and how much it's going to cost, etc... ;D

Ya we'll get it sorted.  It's booked and we can sort out details this week/next week.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 21, 2012, 01:08:23 PM
I just went to double check the price of the lumber I needed yet, and it's starting to go up.  I guess everyone is paying more for fuel these days.... at least out west  d* (according to the newspapers - and we believe them, right?  ;)).
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on May 22, 2012, 02:03:11 PM
Paying $4.50 here.  It was $0.30/gallon cheaper in Omak...   ???  A new high for me and oil is $60 a barrel cheaper than it was when I paid $4.41...   ???  YIKES.  Don't expect it to go down.  Just plan on staying longer when I do make it over to the good side of the hill.

Lumber IS going up.  Less demand, lower supply, higher fuel prices.  Very few mills operating.  The logs they hauled out last year near my place were headed to a mill FOUR hours away. 

I know the gubmint is telling us inflation is a mere 2-4%.  Not according to my fuel and grocery receipts  >:( .

I'm hurting and I'm one of the lucky ones... steadily employed.  Had to dip into the savings.  Wages for jobs I do have dropped back to what I was making in the 80's.  L&I is busting everyone they can who ain't paying taxes but employers ain't paying anyone who is.  I can see why the tax revenue has fallen so far short.  The state even suspected me of cheating as my checks to them have dropped off by more than 75%.    They wanted their $$$.  Sadly, I ain't making what I was in 2006 anymore.  I'm in subsistence mode.  Don't expect it'll get better anytime soon.  I figure they'll dip into whatever savings/IRA I have left to make sure the Banksters can keep making their big campaign contributions.

Sorry for the rant... :-[

Hope it's goes well for you.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 22, 2012, 02:43:00 PM
Nah... don't worry about the rant.

Silly me, I always thought that when the demand for something went down ... prices went down.  Seems to me the econ prof had it wrong and still gave me an A!  That plus when the supply of something went up ... and the price of it went down the end cost of it should go down.  From what I can tell (and a few others that I've talked to) we, out west, are the only ones feeling the price increase even when the cost of a barrel of crude is way off the highs. ???

Life is just plain weird these days - which is one reason I want to get at least my shed (with loft) finished.  I just don't know what might happen.

Thankfully, I am also one of the mostly employed.  Altho, it doesn't seem like I'm using the talents that I've cultivated over the last 25 years - at least not to their fullest extent.  But I suppose I should be glad I have a job... just over 4 years and I'm eligible for a pension (if they keep me that long)  ???
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 22, 2012, 04:23:13 PM
I saw somewhere gas on the east coast was HIGHER -- so it's not just WA State....can I post something for you?   I'll post and if you want it removed I'll remove it but this is why you don't feel any 'recovery' etc.....


http://etfdailynews.com/2012/05/18/john-williams-the-recovery-is-an-illusion-gld-slv-tza-sds-indexsp-inx/

Anyway, I've tracked several things in the stores and in some cases prices went up 50% in others they went up some and the item got smaller with a net gain of 20%....the whole 2-3% is bullcrap since it doesn't include food and energy -- the two most important things to you and me.....

Anyway, I'll not rant but suffice to say I'm not happy either.  I make 57% of what I did 2 years ago and there are zip to none opportunities out there these days...but hey, it's all sunshine and roses right?

Cheers
Erik
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 23, 2012, 05:00:20 AM
Been watching them "cook the books" so to speak, for a number of years now.  Sadly, it doesn't seem to matter what side of the aisle you're on, either.  Some just cook 'em more than others... :-[

I have an opportunity to increase my wages coming up ... if offered, I'm debating taking it, because it's only a 6 month contract (for a tech company) - opposed to a "permanent" job (in the housing industry ???).  The advantages are that it would be actual programming instead of "marketing support" (maintaining the website)

It's a dilemma... and Beautiful is going to be out of town for 5 days. :(  I need a trip to the Ranch


Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 30, 2012, 05:14:36 AM
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Underground-Rain-Barrels/Rain-Water-Harvest-Underground-Tank-574-Gallon

You could probably build this but frankly the price isn't bad -- and with someone like Tom to dig the hole for you -- well, water would be less of an issue ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 30, 2012, 05:39:58 AM
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Underground-Rain-Barrels/Rain-Water-Harvest-Underground-Tank-574-Gallon

You could probably build this but frankly the price isn't bad -- and with someone like Tom to dig the hole for you -- well, water would be less of an issue ;)

Yeah, I've thought about doing something like that.  I have a 230 gallon tank that fits the back of the pickup ... I figured I could build something to roll it in and out to run and get water when I needed to, but I'd rather have a "source" on the property.  The guy that rides the ferry with me (that works for EPA) says, "You didn't hear it from me, but I'd go ahead and build a dam on the runoff and make a small pond"  ;)  That might work if I can contain it.

But I've done a whole bunch of other research and I might be able to dig/drill my own hole. It would just take a loooong time.  Which is ok.  The alternative is no water at all.  But in the meantime, I'm thinking a cistern like you have with rain/snow water harvesting might not be a bad idea.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 30, 2012, 05:52:38 AM
I will say that I'm getting pumped up to be heading up there again.  It's been far too long since I was up at the ranch.

I've got my rafter trusses, and my loft joists and flooring.  I figure I'll pick up the sheathing locally up there, if I get to that point.  (I hope I get to that point as it will be good to get the roof on)

And then to get the drive to the top of the hill put in, will be awesome! :)  I hope I can mark it all out for him well in advance.  I have scouted it out the last few times I've been there, but it's been over a year, so I will need to make sure that I remember correctly.  And put in some stakes and tape or something for him to follow.  ???

I'm wishing it was next week already... that would mean only 2 days to go :D! But it's not, so that means 9 days... :-[
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 30, 2012, 12:25:56 PM
I will say that I'm getting pumped up to be heading up there again.  It's been far too long since I was up at the ranch.

I've got my rafter trusses, and my loft joists and flooring.  I figure I'll pick up the sheathing locally up there, if I get to that point.  (I hope I get to that point as it will be good to get the roof on)

And then to get the drive to the top of the hill put in, will be awesome! :)  I hope I can mark it all out for him well in advance.  I have scouted it out the last few times I've been there, but it's been over a year, so I will need to make sure that I remember correctly.  And put in some stakes and tape or something for him to follow.  ???

I'm wishing it was next week already... that would mean only 2 days to go :D! But it's not, so that means 9 days... :-[

That bug is SOOOOooooo hard to kick too! 

Here I am sitting at work just a couple days passed being at the cabin and I'm itching to get right back to it!  Can't wait....seriously dying here....
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 30, 2012, 12:42:38 PM
Yeah, I solved a problem this afternoon and now I'm on a bit of an adrenalin rush ... the kind that comes when you feel you've been buried under about 7 feet of dirt and clawed your way out.  The kind that makes me want to charge that hill on my property up to the top where the view is the best ... right where the deck is going to extend from the front door! ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 01, 2012, 08:02:11 AM
One more week!  Gonna get the trailer for the supplies from my local friend this weekend (hopefully tomorrow) and get it loaded up.  Then it will be the rest of the week trying to make myself stay busy enough so the time doesn't crawl by and feel like a month o' Sundays before the next weekend  ::)

I'm going to need to get the Genny and the compressor out of the other trailer, tho, so that will give me something to do  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 01, 2012, 08:45:02 AM
Don't forget to email your number to Tom so you can discuss the excavator work with him...and we need to plan the meet up etc
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 01, 2012, 09:13:49 AM
I'm a step ahead of you this morning, OJH  ;D  Did that about 45 minutes ago... Told him to call me tomorrow sometime.

I am getting really stoked about it now  :o  I think it's going to be one of the most productive trips up there that I've had!

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 01, 2012, 09:15:06 AM
I'm a step ahead of you this morning, OJH  ;D  Did that about 45 minutes ago... Told him to call me tomorrow sometime.

I am getting really stoked about it now  :o  I think it's going to be one of the most productive trips up there that I've had!

 I hope so!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 03, 2012, 01:20:39 PM
Well, plans have changed once again... but this time in a positive way.

Pending approval from my boss, I will b leaving from the house Friday morning to head to the ranch.  Which means 2 things.  I'll be able to take it easy on the way there, and I'll get there earlier on Friday so I will get the tasks done that I want done before the excavator shows up.

Taking it easy up there is a plus because I have a loaded flatbed trailer that looks like:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.com%2Fjhasz%2FLoadedtrailer.JPG&hash=32797fb7734d75ce73ba0ee8b19f6d10)

That's 10 roof trusses and some other stuff.  Then the compressor and genny in the back of the truck.

Gonna be fun! ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 03, 2012, 06:10:48 PM
Awesome!  DId you hear from Tom?  I sent him a msg also.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 04, 2012, 04:26:45 AM
Yup, I heard from him ... I think I've got what I needed from him ...  and we'll just have to play it by ear the rest of the way  :D

The best part of this is that I'll be able to get my preliminary work done by Friday night, so then I'll head over to your place a bit earlier on Saturday.  I'm hoping I'll get enough done Friday that I can simply get up and head your way (crack o' dawn - sorta (there needs to be a yawing smiley)

I'm trying to gather the things I need to take, and discovering just how unorganized I've become over the last year  :(

I'm getting antsy to get going now.  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 12, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
Well, I got up to the property/cabin/shed about 5 pm on Friday.  I would have been there an hour sooner, but I thought I would  try going in from the "other" direction (sometimes called "the back way")... Not a good decision.  After driving for nearly 1/2 hour, getting caught in a hail storm, and thunder and lightening, I decided I had to have taken a wrong turn and was on the wrong road.  Turning around (not easy with a trailer full of trusses on a single lane dirt road), headed back to go in the "front" way.

Got hailed on again, but finally made it to my place. I attempted to enter on the "driveway" (which really isn't one yet), and proceeded to crush the drivers side taillight on the truck. I decided that I was going to need to unload the trusses and carry them into the building site. So I waited  for a break in the rain.  Once that occurred I hauled them one by one to the site, about 150 yards away.

About 3 hours later, after they were all unloaded, I was able to pull the truck and trailer up into the 'drive'.  Not wanting to back the trailer in,I dropped it at the 'turn-around' (a wide spot) and turned the truck around to back it in the rest of the way.

After that I was beat, and it was about 9pm

Saturday morning, I got to work ... climbed out of the truck, moved a few things, climbed back in the truck and went back down the mountain to my favorite eatery and had breakfast.  On the way back I gassed up the truck.  Back at the property, I unloaded some of the 2x10x12' board I had brought and proceeded to cut them to 12' exactly and install them for the loft floor.  Originally,I was only going to put the loft at the back of the shed/cabin but I decided that it would be simpler to put it completely across the place.

I then took out the first 2  2x6's that I had originally used for the back 4 joists, and replaced them. By that time I was ready to quit.  Working at 4000' altitude takes it out of you when you're not used to it! :-\

I was beat, so I headed to OJH's place arrived there at about 5.  Had a great sit by his fire, nice dinner, and  great breakfast the next morning after sleeping soundly and warm! (thanks for the hospitality, OJH!)

He and his friends offered to come help put the rafters up on top of the loft for me on Sunday on their way home, but i hadn't got the floor on it yet and didn't want them (the trusses) in the way while I finished the loft floor.  Sorry to say, I had to decline the offer of help - although it was much appreciated!

Got back to my place Sunday, after stopping on the way for  couple of things at HD, and went to work finishing up the loft -framing the "stairwell", and getting the floor sheathing up there were the big tasks. By 7 pm I was beat, and headed for bed.

Monday,I finished the loft floor, took  down the old rafters, and in general sat around for part of the day.

Did I get everything done that I wanted to? Nope. But that's ok. part of the trip was to assess the weathering of the place (fairly good - it will need a new floor next time or the time after that).

There are a few discussion points that came out of this trip that Beautiful and I need to cover ... -  but that will happen over the next few days.  And the shape of the roof has been reviewed (yet again), and might change before I head back up  ???

But I did have a good trip  :) and even saw a few deer (video to come)  ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 12, 2012, 12:43:52 PM
Glad you were able to get much done!  It's always hard to not get everything you want done (that's my story EVERY trip almost) but it's always good to get up to the property and get SOMETHING done! :D  Keep it up and in no time you'll be sleeping under your own roof and warming by your own fire.

Cheers and well met.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 13, 2012, 04:34:21 AM
And here's the video that I promised...

http://rockofagesranch.com/jhasz/DSCN2191.AVI (http://rockofagesranch.com/jhasz/DSCN2191.AVI)

Sorry for only the link, but I'm having trouble embedding the video this morning.  Not enough coffee, I guess.

Video is only 18 seconds long, and very jumpy at the beginning, but about 12 seconds in you can see the doe - it will finally stop settled on the doe and her fawn (the fawn is between the fore and hind legs of the doe when she's standing still.

The reason it's jumpy is that I wasn't aware I was videoing.  The last person to use the camera left it on video and so I thought I had the picture at the very beginning (which was supposed to be just the fawn) and the picture at the very end.  When I got back to the camp, and checked it out, I realized it had video'd it all.  Good thing it's not my nature to say anything uncalled for  ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 09, 2012, 09:55:50 AM
Just got back from vacation.  It put a big dent in the budget, but since the next item is to get the roof rafter/trusses up and I'll only have about 1.5 days to get that done, I don't think I'll need much more than gas and food money.

Vacation was a blast.  10 days with 2 teens.  d*  But it was pretty good.  A great time seems to have been had by all.  After all, who can go to Yellowstone and Glacier Nat'l Parks and not have a good time.  Even with miles and miles of hiking.  And I gained only 3 pounds!

Saw some of this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.com%2Fjhasz%2FDE020658-300X400.JPG&hash=324192fba71e4cb339b2b4c94e73198f)

and this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.com%2Fjhasz%2FDE020635.JPG&hash=b38ce5a0995c53466c65d95bb72da295)

But no moose and no big horn sheep.

At Glacier we saw some mountain goats... and a few Antelope.

Lots of water at both and "Old Faithful" and a few others at Yellowstone.

All in all it was a great vacation capped of with a half-day rafting trip down one of the rivers bordering Glacier Nat'l ... you can imagine how cold THAT water was  ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 09, 2012, 01:17:52 PM
Did you tent it?  Did the misses enjoy?

Glad to hear you had a good time -- it's important to take time to do that now and then, or so I keep telling myself while I keep putting off just that!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 10, 2012, 06:35:29 AM
No, we didn't tent it ... just couldn't justify set up and striking camp every morning.  We stopped the first night about 1/2 way to North Yellowstone, then night 2 in North Yellowstone, then night 3 & 4 in West Yellowstone, 5 in Idaho Falls (Forth of July fireworks were AWEsome), night 6 in east Glacier, 7 in West glacier, night 8 about 1/2 way home again.

Beautiful planned the entire thing, and truly enjoyed it.  We found a couple places that we would love to retire to on the way back  :)  Just wish I was closer than I am to it.  I'm going to have to look for a telecommute job in a couple years  ;D (once the kids are out of the nest)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 10, 2012, 06:20:35 PM
Telecommute from Omak ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 11, 2012, 05:08:39 AM
I would if I could, but the boss says policy is that you have to be in the office... Of course you can bend that policy once in awhile, but not on a regular basis. >:(

But there is some beautiful stretches of ground in ID and western MT.  Plenty of pasture, plenty of wood, and plenty of water coming off the mountains.  ;D  I might have to finish my build, sell at a profit  rofl [rofl2] , and buy something new to build the "real" getaway on.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 11, 2012, 12:49:34 PM
So, due to budget and (mainly) other plans, the July trip to the ranch has gone out the window ... well, sort of.  It's really more like it's been moved to the first weekend in August... and the Trip that was supposed to be the 3rd weekend in August is now been moved up to the 2nd weekend.

And then there's labor day weekend.  I'm hoping to go to the ranch and finish up things, but since it's a holiday, I am hoping that Beautiful won't want to do something else instead (since we had our big family vacation already)

Plan is to get the roof on (or nearly so) the next trip, finish up anything left on the roof, and finish the gable ends the second week in August and do Metal roof, "siding", windows, and door finished on Labor day weekend.  At that point it's only a matter of finding a nice, small wood stove for heat in the cold parts of the year  :D  Then it will be ready for hunting season.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 06, 2012, 04:52:15 AM
As usual, not as much got done as planned. >:(

But it wasn't for lack of trying!  The entire goal of heading up this weekend was to get the roof trusses on... Well, as you'll see in the pictures, we're 60% done.

Got the first truss up!:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FDE040963.JPG&hash=24d3288aec3fed46b6257e8fa6239751)

The first 5 are done...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FDE040964.JPG&hash=229a9ca955fe31d3232478932e1af40b)

And 60% finished:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FDE040968.JPG&hash=bff792dec3f16cca689732788f49859e)

Which is where it was left.  Why? Because I couldn't figure out how to get the last 4 up without standing outside the building 12' off the ground! (obviously, there's no way I can do THAT!  ???)

Had I been able to muscle the last 4 into place, I would have been exceedingly pleased.  As it is, I'm fairly please with what I *did* get done.

Basically I needed a third (and maybe a fourth) hand to help steady them as they went up - and to help lift them into place.  I think I'll take a block and tackle along next time.  From what I can tell that would help a lot.  The only issue I have is how to get it higher than the peak of the roof.

Then comes the part that will make me truly nervous - putting the sheathing on the roof!

Oh, and when I got there, I noticed some of my lumber was missing and 2 sheets of T&G OSB were gone along with my small grill.  Someone felt they needed those more than I did, apparently.  Probably kids planning on building a ramp to just their bikes with from the lumber.

On the way up I drove past this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FDE030942.JPG&hash=0c21be06563d3604545cb079db37ad96)

And this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FDE030948.JPG&hash=a62b13d55637e64263c2fe412794cde2)

Of course, the fire website says it's "Brewster", but it really was southeast of Pateros ... near the Azwell dam, on the east side of the river.  There was section south of the dam and some north of it - mostly put out except for these few spots which were completely out when I headed home late morning, yesterday.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 06, 2012, 05:06:01 AM
Bravo!  Bravo!  Great job Java!

Just put ALL four of the remaining trusses up at once (well one at a time but at the same time).  Stack them against the last one you put up, then move the gabled end truss to the outside and fix it in place, then the next and so on.

A way you can make this a little less difficult (maybe) would be to put strapping on (1x4's) on the outside of the first trusses and extend it to past the end where the last needs to go.  Once in place and plumb nail the strapping to the truss to hold it, then nail the ends to the hurricane clips on the roof tops and your done ;)

Something to consider.

If you go back when I'm up there (next weekend I'll be there) then left me know and I'll bring my hammer and ladder ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 06, 2012, 05:15:15 AM
You're on OJH ... the plan is to head back up on Friday for the weekend and finish putting them up.

The way you said is exactly what I was thinking... Great minds and all that  [cool]

In the one day (Saturday) I went through 2 gallons of water it was so warm and I was working that hard.  I have to say - I am fairly proud of what I've managed to accomplish - so far 100% on my own (well, there was a little help, but I changed direction and undid most of that part)

I am at the point now where an extra pair of hands would be handy (no pun intended  ::))

We'll have to connect during the week and figure it out (Before you head up!)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 12, 2012, 11:44:19 AM
Got to the property on Friday evening. Accomplished a few things in preparation for the next day.  Somewhere along the line got a call from the friend that was to come help that he wasn't going to be able to. 

Ah, well.  Such is life.  Thought about how to re-arrange the schedule of things to get done to fill the time.

Started the day by measuring the OSB that the thieves actually left and found that it was the same thickness as what I had on the side of the building already.  So, I put up one of the sheets to finish the majority of the "front" of the place.  Put extra nails into the other sheets - especially on the southwest corner (it seemed to be missing quite a few!).  Interestingly, once I did this and climbed to the loft, it wasn't as "wiggly" as it had been last weekend!  [cool]  Which would do wonders for assuaging my fear of heights.

Then I thought I might cut the sheathing for the three top sides that were left and put it up... got it cut, needed extra hands to put it up - basically to hold it in place until I got the first two nails in to it.  Gave up on that.

Moved the last of the rafter trusses up to the loft area, got them leaned against the ones that were already set in place (photos to follow, stay tuned), took a short break for water, and then went back and stood the up.  Walked them into place starting with the end one first, tacking them to a 1x2 that I had to hold it up (along with bracing on the end).  Then did the last three, tacking them to the 1X2 as well.  As I'm nailing the last one to the Simpson Strong-ties, I got the one side nailed, and walked over to the other side (the side with the 1x2), and in a half crouch, I start to bend down to set the pail of nails down before sitting down...

BAM!  d*  Wacked my forehead on the corner of that 1x2.

Could I have placed the "soft" corner facing up? Noooooo!, I had to have one of the sharp edges up.  I am sporting a new lump and a cut on my forehead.  And I had just looked at hardhats at HD on the way up  [waiting] [frus]

I did finish getting all the trusses in place (picture to come).

So I moved a few more things around, did one more spot of wall sheathing that needed done, and came home.

I do, however, have a question for the experts in the group that follows:

I would like to do sheathing on the roof with 19/32" OSB, but I am unsure if I will have help when I need it to accomplish this.  Is it "ok" to use a T&G instead? What I mean is can I use 1"X6"x?? T&G boards to sheath the roof with instead of 4x8 sheets of osb?  I ask because it's way easier to handle a 1x6x12' (or similar) piece of whatever by myself than it is to manhandle a 4'X8' sheet of OSB into place by myself.

I fear I would be giving up some of the lateral sheer strength, but I don't know if it would be so much as to cause concern.

Thanks for the input...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Don_P on August 12, 2012, 01:08:41 PM
You would be giving up a fair amount, a diagonal set of steel straps making an X over the T&G would help. If it gets a metal roof there is the diaphragm.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 12, 2012, 01:43:19 PM
By diaphragm, do you mean that the T&G running one direction and the metal roofing running the other direction would give it the strength that I would be missing (or most of the strength?)?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 13, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
Sorry I wasn't able to make it out Jeff!  I was pretty bumbed out but sadly, when out of work, I have to stick to a budget :(  As it was, I blew my budget completely out of the water with TWO trips, count them TWO TRIPS to Omak on Thursday....the wife wanted to kill me until she saw the running water ;)

On a positive note, though, it looks like I have a promising job interview coming up soon!!!!

On the OSB to the roof, I find it best to do it this way:

1.  Lean ladder against wall at the recommended angle (standing straight up can you reach straight out and grab the rails with you feet at the bottom of the ladder?)
2.  Hoist a sheet of OSB onto your shoulder with right hand twisted sorta backwards cradling the sheet and your left guiding it up top.
3.  Begin walking up the ladder balancing the sheet until you are high enough to slide the sheet off your shoulder onto the roof.
4.  Place the sheet carefully (not to hard actually) and tack in place -- nail as needed once secure.

Now you can do that with the next and so on until all the lower sheets are in place (which doesn't require climbing the ladder all the way up but just a couple rungs -- so not high enough to hurt yourself badly if things went wrong.

With one row of sheets you can do the second by sliding it over the first and catching the second as a stay -- but don't forget to install the clips!

Also, you can screw on a 'tack rail' to the end of the trusses to set the sheets against before nailing in place (just thought of that since I didn't need to)....use two pieces of sheeting staggered so one sticks out above the truss line but allows the sheet to drop to the edge of the truss.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 13, 2012, 06:09:13 PM
No problems OJH ... I shoulda thought of it, but I coulda 'contributed' gas money, at least!  And maybe lunch at the cafe.... guess I wasn't thinking straight.

As for getting the OSB upon the roof ... once more I got to thinking about it today (yeah, Beautiful asks if I actually do any WORK at work, but an hour on the ferry each way give one lots of time).  Anyway, was thinking about it, and I believe I can get most if not all of it on there without too much difficulty.  At least up to the last peak part.  Which is where I will have to gather my nerve to get it done.

Then, of course, there is the felt...  [shocked]
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 14, 2012, 06:46:22 AM
So here's the schedule for Labor day weekend.

Arrive at the ranch Thursday early evening, having picked up a few sheets of 7/16 OSB for the last parts of wall sheathing
Finish sheathing the walls on Thurs eve and Friday morning, then run to the hardware for the roof sheathing, and put that up on Friday afternoon/Saturday morning.
Finally, on Saturday and Sunday, put in the door, windows, and steps to the door.

That should leave the felt on the roof, the stairs to the loft, the steel on the roof, and the outside siding that I hope to get finished this year yet.

After that, it's insulation and inside walls.

Somewhere along in there I would like to find a pot-bellied stove to put in - which I'm sure would heat the place sufficiently, insulation or not!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 14, 2012, 07:07:25 AM
So here's the schedule for Labor day weekend.

Arrive at the ranch Thursday early evening, having picked up a few sheets of 7/16 OSB for the last parts of wall sheathing
Finish sheathing the walls on Thurs eve and Friday morning, then run to the hardware for the roof sheathing, and put that up on Friday afternoon/Saturday morning.
Finally, on Saturday and Sunday, put in the door, windows, and steps to the door.

That should leave the felt on the roof, the stairs to the loft, the steel on the roof, and the outside siding that I hope to get finished this year yet.

After that, it's insulation and inside walls.

Somewhere along in there I would like to find a pot-bellied stove to put in - which I'm sure would heat the place sufficiently, insulation or not!

Plan a trip to Oregon ;)

They can sell the stove you want and it's CHEAP.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 14, 2012, 07:34:51 AM
Yeah, I've noticed... and there's no sales tax, either!  Hmmm, Beautiful is headed there on Wednesday... ???
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 14, 2012, 07:45:25 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Vogelzang-Belly-Stove-Model-PB65XL/dp/B0000AXEY1/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hg_3
You can find these at the Big R stores in Oregon....
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 15, 2012, 05:20:37 AM
Ouch!  Seems to me I saw one listed someplace for around $150.  Harbor Freight, or someplace like that, maybe.  But that is what I'm looking for.  That would really heat up a 12 X 12 space, don't you think?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 15, 2012, 01:05:21 PM
You get that roof sheeted and covered (at least anyway) with 30# felt and you'll have a place to stay when it starts to rain/snow!

But get as much sheeting done as possible once the roof is in place, to keep the critters out...and consider the water system I'm using (and greywater drain)....you might even get the misses up there.

Speaking of which, tell her the dust is only a problem, really, in August and September....ok maybe late July too but the rest of the year it isn't an issue really and with running water becomes a non-issue.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: CjAl on August 15, 2012, 04:56:32 PM
i love pot belly stoves. we salvaged an old one from an old train station, big sucker. we refinished it all and my buddy worked at a chromer that did all work for harley davidson. we took off all the legs, handles etc and sent them along to be chromed. i miss that old stove. it would run you out of a 30x30 uninsulated shop.in northern wi
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 15, 2012, 07:40:12 PM
You get that roof sheeted and covered (at least anyway) with 30# felt and you'll have a place to stay when it starts to rain/snow!

But get as much sheeting done as possible once the roof is in place, to keep the critters out...and consider the water system I'm using (and greywater drain)....you might even get the misses up there.

Speaking of which, tell her the dust is only a problem, really, in August and September....ok maybe late July too but the rest of the year it isn't an issue really and with running water becomes a non-issue.

Getting it closed in is the plan!  Hopefully I can manage to get that done by the end of Labor Day weekend (I get "the day before Labor day" off as well!)

Well, the water isn't a big problem - that I can come up with a solution for.  It's the condition of the road - and I don't mean the dust (that's just a bonus)... I mean the fact that on the steep parts, it rattles her fillings loose! [frus]

I have looked at a number of solutions to this problem, but sadly, most of them involve heavy machinery, or some sort of paving ...  Next time I go up, I'll try to get some pictures ... I have a mini-grand canyon on one hill, that even the heavy equipment heading up there lately hasn't crushed into submission.  I've thought of trying to find a chunk of 'I' beam or railroad rail to harness behind my truck and run up and down the road a few times, but that might not even solve the problem...

All that, plus she doesn't like high desert.  Sheesh.  So, I may finish this build, sell out and look for a new parcel to start on.  Of course, if I do that, I will make darn certain that it meets enough criteria that she can't say she won't come up.

I can't blame her, though.  I bought the land before I met her! [noidea'
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 15, 2012, 07:41:17 PM
i love pot belly stoves. we salvaged an old one from an old train station, big sucker. we refinished it all and my buddy worked at a chromer that did all work for harley davidson. we took off all the legs, handles etc and sent them along to be chromed. i miss that old stove. it would run you out of a 30x30 uninsulated shop.in northern wi

I've seen one like that on Craigslist.  They wanted something like $400 for it (maybe $350, it was a while back).  It was pretty cool
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 17, 2012, 11:04:37 AM
Ok, here's the pictures I promised!

The trusses in position!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FRaftersPositiones600x450.JPG&hash=4e32511d2cd86ed30f8963563232de98)

And finally in place!  [cool]

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FRaftersInstalled600x450.JPG&hash=b0653b7712e28284071a7b3c849724bf)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 17, 2012, 04:07:33 PM
I'm glad it worked out!  Now get back there and sheet the roof!

Too bad I'm out of work or I'd be sure to be up there the same weekend to help out :(
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 19, 2012, 03:24:35 PM
I'm glad it worked out!  Now get back there and sheet the roof!

Too bad I'm out of work or I'd be sure to be up there the same weekend to help out :(

Not to worry.  I've been thinking about how to sheath the roof, and have come up with a few ideas.  I am hoping that on Labor day weekend I can get the gable ends framed, those, and the rest of the walls sheathed and the roof sheathed.

If I get ahead of it, I might even get the felt on!  But I'm not counting on it.  I figure if I don't get all the sheathing on, I at least want to get the roof done and the gable ends framed.

With 4 days, I would think I could get it all done, tho. ???
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 20, 2012, 06:00:18 AM
The main thing to plan is this:

If you do not get the roof sheeted or felted then plan to tarp it.  Tarp it over and nail down furring strips to ensure the tarp stays put.

That way, next year when you make it out it will have stayed dry and protected throughout the winter and you wouldn't have lost any previous years work etc due to water damage.

This is what I did the first year and it worked very well!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FCabin_Dec_6026.jpg&hash=7b4a1d708def40bb03eb0e504dae41d6)
In that picture you can see the HUGE tarp that we put over the cabin and tied down.  It worked very well and was worth the $100 it cost me!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 20, 2012, 06:34:46 AM
Yup, Got the tarp ... well, not the 1.2 trillion dollars  [noidea', but the kind for over the roof...

But I think that I should be able to get that up on the roof - or at least MOST of it, in which case I'll still need a tarp, but not as big.

I don't think the snow will fly before the end of October, tho, and I am planning a second trip up in September so I might get the steel on it this year, yet.  Which would be awesome! :)

So I think I'm closing in on being "done" - at least with the shell.

I'm looking forward to Labor Day weekend - altho I hope the price of gas drops again.  This is getting goofy!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 27, 2012, 08:21:31 AM
Frankly, a tarp is looking quite affordable!

I am trying to put together the "budget" for the trip this coming weekend, and aside from gasoline being at least $0.50 / gallon more expensive, I just priced the lumber I need and it looks like I'll be spending at least $50 more than I would have a couple months ago (beginning of the summer).  And that doesn't include replacing the 2 or 3 sheets of 23/32 t&g OSB that grew legs and wandered off  [chainsaw]

The 19/32 osb sheets have increased by about $4.50 per sheet!  Since I need at least 8 of them that's a goodly chunk of change!

And Beautiful wonders why I'm in an all fire hurry to get these parts finished.   [waiting]

Ah well.  Hopefully this will be the last of the 'major' purchases.  Of course, I still have the metal roofing and some sort of siding to go, but once the roofing is done, the siding will be on an "as available" basis.

I'm figuring on framing the gable ends on Friday (I have Friday and Monday off), finishing the wall sheathing on Saturday, and using the rest of the time to sheath the roof (Sunday and Monday).  Any time besides that will be putting in the windows and door (and steps up to the door).  I also want to build some shutters for over the windows, and maybe the door.  Just to keep the stones and cows out.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2012, 08:56:53 AM
Add to your budget a game cam.  Get the newer small one from cabela's that takes AA batteries which I'm told can last close to a year!

Then place it somewhere not so obvious but able to clearly catch anyone at your place.

My friend, who is a Sheriffs Deputy tells me they solve a lot of cases because of those cameras.

May not get your wood back, but may help making whomever thinks it's free for the taken pay in other ways.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: rick91351 on August 27, 2012, 09:20:15 AM
OSB and plywood will go sky high again with the current storm in the gulf.  Best buy ASAP or wait a month or so unless a couple more named storms show up then will be up for a long time.   

Right now a lot of the stores are shrinking inventory.  This causes the autumn rise in prices.  When building was booming you never noticed it.  Now they will be waiting until early spring to put a lot more product in the product pipe line unless it all goes to the Gulf Coast.  Then high, high and higher...

   
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 27, 2012, 10:38:11 AM
OSB and plywood will go sky high again with the current storm in the gulf.  Best buy ASAP or wait a month or so unless a couple more named storms show up then will be up for a long time.   

Right now a lot of the stores are shrinking inventory.  This causes the autumn rise in prices.  When building was booming you never noticed it.  Now they will be waiting until early spring to put a lot more product in the product pipe line unless it all goes to the Gulf Coast.  Then high, high and higher...

   

Y'know, usually I think of these things... goes to show you where my head is at these days.  Yeah, the hurricane season is upon us, but I don't think that is the ONLY reason the cost is going up... with the cost of gas going up, the cost to transport that lumber goes up, which no one wants to eat, so it gets pushed down the chain to the consumer...

Ah well, that's life...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 27, 2012, 10:41:03 AM
Add to your budget a game cam.  Get the newer small one from cabela's that takes AA batteries which I'm told can last close to a year!

Then place it somewhere not so obvious but able to clearly catch anyone at your place.

My friend, who is a Sheriffs Deputy tells me they solve a lot of cases because of those cameras.

May not get your wood back, but may help making whomever thinks it's free for the taken pay in other ways.

Hmmm, the gamecam I have takes "D" cells.  I'd be afraid they'd take the cam, too! [frus]

But you do have a point.  If I can figure out where to place it, I want to put it up this trip.  What gets me is that they got the stuff *after* my first trip up.  All I can figure is that they saw the mess I made getting into and out of the property and went to investigate.

Beautiful thinks it was a bunch of kids looking for something to build a jump ramp for their dirt bikes and such.  I am inclined to agree. (no pun intended)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: rick91351 on August 27, 2012, 02:33:20 PM
Hmmm, the gamecam I have takes "D" cells.  I'd be afraid they'd take the cam, too! [frus]

.......................snip

They did get Mike On Bike's last year.........
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 27, 2012, 03:03:30 PM
Game cam hidden watching the other game cam that's hidden ;)  Might work.

On the price of things going up, I suspect gas will rise rapidly if the Gulf gets wacked hard....good idea to fill up now and get the extra you may use on the trip now too....just sayin ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: rick91351 on August 27, 2012, 03:24:58 PM
Game cam hidden watching the other game cam that's hidden ;)  Might work.


I have had thoughts of mounting a dummy camera or a box that sort of looks like a game camera by the shop.  And putting up a real one near by....

Great minds......
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 28, 2012, 05:03:26 AM
Game cam hidden watching the other game cam that's hidden ;)  Might work.

On the price of things going up, I suspect gas will rise rapidly if the Gulf gets wacked hard....good idea to fill up now and get the extra you may use on the trip now too....just sayin ;)

Dang!  I have NO idea where my mind is at... You're right, of course.  Guess I'll have to forgo lunch today, and make sure the truck gets filled  :-\

This trip is already over $100 more than I figured it would be back when I planned it a couple months ago.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 28, 2012, 05:19:01 AM
Looks like the storm will be weak when it hits but I suspect the wells and refineries are all off-line now which means higher prices in the very near future (like maybe this weekend or sooner)....if they get wacked then who knows, could be $5 /gallon soon enough (wouldn't take much to get there).

I picked up what I needed for my next trip.  Won't save much, maybe $5 but that's $5 I can spend somewhere else ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 28, 2012, 11:57:06 AM
Looks like the storm will be weak when it hits but I suspect the wells and refineries are all off-line now which means higher prices in the very near future (like maybe this weekend or sooner)....if they get wacked then who knows, could be $5 /gallon soon enough (wouldn't take much to get there).

I picked up what I needed for my next trip.  Won't save much, maybe $5 but that's $5 I can spend somewhere else ;)

I hear you on that!  So when are you headed back up there?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 29, 2012, 04:57:45 AM
Mid-September.

Wish it were sooner but must buckle down while I'm laid off.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 29, 2012, 06:28:11 AM
Yeah, especially with that repair to the truck!  That had to hurt the budget big time.

Well, the boss just gave approval for "casual" dress tomorrow, and since we have Friday AND Monday off, I'll be headed up tomorrow right from the office (saves me about 90 minutes over leaving from home, not to mention the commute TO home and everything else).  Can't wait to get the place buttoned up.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: mountainlady1956 on August 29, 2012, 05:38:19 PM
Well I don't have much building advice but I love your sense of humor and smileys. I am enjoying watching your build too!
Cathy
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: pmichelsen on August 30, 2012, 05:25:00 AM
Sounds like a good plan, I'm hoping to "work" remote on Friday to get me up to the property a little earlier. I took off Tuesday to tack on a little extra time up at the property. Hopefully you can knock out your to-do list and enjoy your place over the weekend.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 04, 2012, 07:24:01 AM
Well, I got up to the property last weekend and got a few things done, but not all that I had hoped to  >:(

Let's look at accomplishments first:
1.  Gable ends framed. (pictures to follow)
2. Wall sheathing finished (except for gable ends)
3. First row of Roof sheathing on north side of roof (picture to follow)

And now the rest of the story (to quote Paul Harvey)

Got up there Thursday evening, unloaded the 2x4's that I got for one of the gable ends and organized a couple things.  By then it was getting dark (and quite cold!)

Friday morning, got up, made coffee and breakfast, and got to work.  Framed the eastern gable end just before the generator ran out of gas.  Which was fortunate, since I was out of lumber and needed to run to the lumber yard anyway.  It's about 10 am at this point.

Ran down the mountain, into town, stopped got gas for the genny and a few gallons in the truck.  Over to the lumber yard where I spend just over $200, to be told, "they (the card processing company) charge us more if we run your debit card as a credit card" (I run it as a credit because I get cash back that way) - had I been thinking I would have observed that they must have that built into the price of what they sell and therefore they must be overcharging their debit/cash customers ... apparently I hadn't had enough coffee yet. ???

They ran it as credit anyway, so no harm, no foul, really.

On the way back up the mountain, because of the way I had the 4x8 sheets of OSB strapped to the top of the truck, the leading edge of the top one caught the wind, flipped and broke in half, flying off the back of the truck.  Now, I'm a 1/2 sheet less. (did I mention I apparently hadn't had enough coffee?)  I did pull over, grab it, added a strap to the front of the load so that wouldn't happen again, and then meandered up the hill s-l-o-o-o-w-l-y ...

Got up to the site again, unloaded the sheets for the wall sheathing, finished that up (except the gable ends), and had lunch.  After lunch finished the west gable end framing.  By then it was about 3pm and I was wiped out.  I had been planning to work until dusk, but just didn't have energy.

Saturday morning, got up, made coffee and breakfast, and started thinking about how to get the sheets of 4x8x19/32 osb from the top of the truck to the roof.  Eventually I put together a block and tackle and hoisted the first sheet up - which took about 2 hours once I decided to do it that way.  I had some bushes to contend with that were preventing an easy lift.  The chain saw wouldn't start so I could remove them either [chainsaw]

Eventually getting it up there, I scrambled up the other ladder to the loft, secured the sheet, attempting to make certain that it was square (you'll see in the picture, that it depends on which end you line up with if it's square or not.  Some of the roof rafters are a bit warped - it's a SHED remember!).  That one sheet just about did me in, but once it was nailed down the whole section of roof (rafters,etc...) became much more stable and solid.

At this point I started trying to come up with other ways of getting panels up to the roof, and spent a couple hours thinking and analyzing - all to no avail  [frus]

So I cut a sheet in half and put the last section on the bottom row, next to the sheet I had already put up there.

Then I thought some more...

Gave up for the day, and tried to relax a bit, removed some brush (yes, the chain saw finally started)

Got up Sunday morning, made coffee, had breakfast, and took 2 aspirin.  About 15 minutes later, felt like my heart was going to explode out of my chest, was light headed, and felt itchy all over while my arms were breaking out in, what appreared to be , hives.  A few minutes later my face felt like it was swelling - or feeling "puffy" at the least.  I was starting to panic a bit and felt like I might be sick to my stomach.

As it started to slowly subside, I still felt like ... well, not good, and decided to pack it in and head towards civilization.  It took my 3 hours to pack up the truck!

After getting home, the best guess that I have as to what happened is I either got bit or stung, and didn't feel it, or (after an internet search on various symptoms) I had an allergice reaction to the aspirin!  If that's the case, I might be in a world of hurt, cause aspirin is my pain-killer of choice.  It works wonders for my back aches, and other pains, where tylenol absolutely fails.

Ah well, guess it's time for a trip to the allergist.  Never had allergies in my life - I'd hate to get them now.

So, job not finished, and I'm going to plan on heading up again in a few weeks, if I can get clearance from Beautiful (and there isn't much else going on at home!)  This time, I'm going to put out an offer to some of the younger guys I know at church, etc... to see if they want to earn a few extra $$$ - I'm done with attempting the work up high alone.

As for the pictures.  One of the other "bad" things that happened this trip is that I forgot the camera, so I have cell phone pictures.  That is, if I can figure how to get them off my stupid phone.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 04, 2012, 07:32:01 AM
Sorry to hear about the troubles but glad to hear you got stuff done!

Paying young guns a little to come and help out would be a good idea if you can afford it.  You could get the cabin dried in before winter then!

That broken sheet might still be useful if you cut away the broken parts -- sorry that happened too!  Sheesh, you, me and Joe Bftspk has some serious luck!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 04, 2012, 07:55:31 AM
Yeah, It was an interesting trip.

I just got off the phone with Beautiful, and it looks like the weekend I want to go up is clear (we have a friend going in for back surgery and I wanted to make sure it wasn't any weekend I might be planning on).

Now all I need to do is grab one of the young'uns to head up.  I will probably take a day off, as well.  Just the roof, the gable ends, the paper on the roof and windows, and door, should be do-able with two of us going at it.  That would dry it in completely.  I'd like to build shutters for over the windows, too, which shouldn't be too difficult.

I did get in a bit of "yard" clean up, also.  Which was good.

The other thing that I need to do before going up again is get the tailpipe re-attached on the truck... I think I caught it on something backing up at the site and pulled it loose.. d* Hopefully it's just a hanger.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 04, 2012, 02:21:38 PM
As promised here is a picture of how far I got this weekend.  Well, except for the 4x4 section on the right hand end (which I did manage to get on the roof):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FPhoto0103.jpg&hash=b896f0a9873e3ed2e6c9b7eb36988e97)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: diyfrank on September 04, 2012, 04:49:39 PM
Looks like you're making some real progress.
I get those un productive trips also, usually getting half what my plan was.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 05, 2012, 05:06:15 AM
That half thing seems to be a pervasive issue up there for some reason.  Even this last time when I figured what I was planning on doing, and then set my own expectations in 1/2, I still wound up doing about 1/2 of THAT! [crz]  I guess the moral of the story is to set expectations higher than you think.  That way 1/2 will be more.

I keep forgetting there is some blocking on the other side of the roof rafters that still needs to be done.  But I have enough lumber for that.

Now, next time I head up there, I really shouldn't have to buy any supplies (if the 4x8 sheets don't walk off) - well except the roof felt.  If all I get done is the rest of the sheathing on and the felt up, I'll be happy for the year.  I'd like to get the windows, door, and roof steel on (and I might get the windows and door in), but if not, that's ok, too
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 06, 2012, 05:42:45 AM
I must admit I'm curious about the blocking?  Of course, since it's a 'shed' then I'm guessing you don't plan to vent the roof, and there are new insulation plans without venting but I'm still a believer in venting myself.  So, the blocks would have to either go, or be changed.

Not saying to remove them, just suggestion that you consider this when you build your cabin.  With the ridge board and bird blocking you don't install the blocks mid-rafter so you can lay in vent foam and insulation to the peak.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 06, 2012, 07:03:33 AM
Well, I am fortunate - the trusses are 2x8 (if I recall), and the blocks are 2x6 ... so there is room for venting.  I truly didn't purposefully plan it that way, but had the 2x6's on site, and decided to use them.  And of course, I will want to do some real bird blocking down at the eaves.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 06, 2012, 07:32:15 AM
Well, I am fortunate - the trusses are 2x8 (if I recall), and the blocks are 2x6 ... so there is room for venting.  I truly didn't purposefully plan it that way, but had the 2x6's on site, and decided to use them.  And of course, I will want to do some real bird blocking down at the eaves.

That should work then :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 17, 2012, 06:40:18 AM
Well, it will be off to the property on Friday afternoon.  If I can get the roof sheathing on, I will be happy.  If I can get the gable ends done, I'll be thrilled, and if I can get the felt on the roof, I'll be ecstatic! (we need a dancing banana here  ;))

I certainly hope that the roof sheathing (and sheathing for the gable ends) hasn't grown legs in the last 3 weeks.... I put it inside this time.  The other stuff was outside  [slap], so that may have been a bit more of a temptation.

I just realized why I haven't been able to afford a tractor or quad ... if I'd had one of either of those, I probably wouldn't have gotten as much work done on my trips! [rofl2]
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 21, 2012, 06:05:04 AM
Truck loaded? Check...
Gassed up? Check...
Change of Clothes? check...
Camera?  Check! (I remembered it this time  :) )

Guess I'm about as ready as I can be.  Now to just get through the day at the office and head out!  Hopefully I can get outta here by 2pm... which puts me at the ranch just before dark, including a stop for "supplies" and a burger.  Thankfully there isn't much I need from HD/Lowes this time.  Just the felt and nails.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 21, 2012, 11:19:02 AM
Good luck!

I hope to get there Sunday night to start planting Rye :D :D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 21, 2012, 07:17:14 PM
Good luck!

I hope to get there Sunday night to start planting Rye :D :D

Thanks! (I found a hot spot at Home Depot in Omak ;D)

Next, you'll need a still  ;)

Got a late start from the office, Bluette pass was closed so I had to run up 405 and head over on hwy 2 ... took me 45 minutes to get from the office onto I-405.  Which is normally about 10 minutes (if that)  d*

So, rather than attempt my road in the pitch black (since Vin Diesel wasn't with me (obscure movie reference)), I decided to overnight in Wally Worlds Parking lot.  I'm amazed the HD hotspot reaches this far!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 29, 2012, 06:10:15 AM
Hey Java, what's the update?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 01, 2012, 06:56:27 AM
Thanks for asking, Jarhead! 

The update is that I've been busier than a one-armed paperhanger (can I still say that?)

I did get up to the property a week ago for the weekend.  All my lumber was still there  [cool], and I got the roof on.  Pictures on the camera, but no time to get them off yet.

I looked at the setup I had to pull the 4x8 sheets up to the roof and decided that it would be a lot easier if I simply turned the ladder over so that the rungs weren't sticking out on the side the board was supposed to slide on  d*.  That was a real "DUH" moment.  There were still a couple bumps, but nothing bigger than 1/8" or so, which made it easy.  So I finished the north side, then went and dd the south side. 

I then realized that because of the way I built the trusses, the south side sheathing sat higher than the north (because I butted the 10' rafters so one was 7-1/4" longer than the other).  This made nailing the top of the second row from the inside, standing on a step ladder on the loft floor, a bit more difficult. Not only was it higher (just a smidge), but it also placed where I had to squeeze between the rafters right where the "tie" piece was, effectively making that space about 3/4" narrower than without that piece in there.

Being a big guy (originally my fingers typed 'big gut', which is only too true  :(  - but I'm working on that), that made it a bit more difficult to get inbetween the rafters to nail in the tops of those boards.

Of course, since I started the sheathing and it was a bit crooked, it all looks crooked on the rafters.  Not the most elegant job, but I keep telling myself, "It's a SHED  ::)"

There is about a foot wide strip at the top that I had to cover with a tarp, since it was so dry I didn't want to start the genny.

I got up to the area in the dark, so I overnighted at the WalMart in Omak, then went up to the property in the early morning.  Worked my tail off until about 3 in the afternoon, and decided that even if I stayed I wouldn't get the gable ends done, so decided to just head home.

Al in all, essentially a one day trip, but I got done what I really wanted to have done, so mission accomplished for this trip.

Pictures to come as soon as I have time to get them off the camera

Now, I'm on to the project at the house.  Replacing the deck.  Oh Joy ...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: ColchesterCabin on October 01, 2012, 07:12:40 AM
It's funny, I find even since I started my build there always seems to be work to do everywhere, home, parents, in-laws. Now I don't know if the work wasn't there before or maybe ignorance was bliss. I wouldn't change anything for the world but I do miss those days  ;D. Can't wait to see the pictures Java.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on October 01, 2012, 08:24:06 AM
Sounds great!

Getting the roof sheeted and covered with a tarp will protect your investment and just remember:  rough framing is covered by finish carpentry ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 01, 2012, 11:15:30 AM
Sounds great!

Getting the roof sheeted and covered with a tarp will protect your investment and just remember:  rough framing is covered by finish carpentry ;)

Or in this case, steel roofing  :) ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 01, 2012, 11:18:10 AM
It's funny, I find even since I started my build there always seems to be work to do everywhere, home, parents, in-laws. Now I don't know if the work wasn't there before or maybe ignorance was bliss. I wouldn't change anything for the world but I do miss those days  ;D.

HA!  I hear you there!  Suddenly there's way too much going on.  This coming weekend is college tour weekend for my step-daughter ... which cuts into the deck repair/replace time.  Ah well, it's all going to get done... maybe not on my schedule, but it will get done! [waiting]
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 11, 2013, 08:28:38 AM
Well, since October, there's been a mess of things happening.

The largest of which is that beginning in February, I will have a bit more salary to store away for this summer's building!  :)

For a variety of reasons, I decided to part ways with my current employer, and was made an offer by another employer that is about 10 minutes from home... and pays a considerable amount more than I have been earning ...  [cool]

So, I will get to reclaim about 5 hours of my life, spend more time with Beautiful (and the kids) and generally be more rested (perhaps I won't need as much coffee in the mornings now  c*)

We've decided to drop two very large trees in the yard, and unfortunately, I wasn't able to persuade Beautiful to keep them so that I could either mill them (or have them milled), or turn them into about 6 or 7 cords of firewood.  They both are about 110' tall! [shocked]

Ah well, I've at least convinced her to let me have a few 8' chunks from near the tops.  The bottoms are probably somewhere between 24 to 30 inches in diameter.  Could have been enough lumber there to frame a nice shed - or put siding on the one I have (and then some!).  Her concern is the time and effort that I'd have to put into it and the decks are not complete yet - and won't be for a couple months!

I have a few vacation days that I have to burn before the last day at this place, so I plan on getting a few projects finished around the house before starting in on the decks again.

And life just keeps on rollin' and gettin' better! ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on January 11, 2013, 12:25:08 PM
Congrats on the new opportunity!  Very exciting for you I'm sure :)  c*

Too bad she won't let you keep the logs though :(  Those would make some very nice lumber!!!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 11, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Congrats on the new opportunity!  Very exciting for you I'm sure :)  c*

Too bad she won't let you keep the logs though :(  Those would make some very nice lumber!!!

Yeah, I'll see if I can get some pictures of the tree, standing and felled ... It will probably make you cry! ... of course, they could be rotten in the middle, but it's still a lot of firewood. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 28, 2013, 11:15:15 AM
OK, it's been a while ...

Of course, it's winter at the ol' lodge and the road is snowed in, so there's no going up to the property at this time of year.  At least not until I get a snowmobile or a quad.  Maybe next year!

So, instead I've been working on the deck(s) here at the house.  And I've come to a point that I need an opinion on the construction before I go a bit further.

I am at the point where I can start putting in support beams (the joists rest on these) and there is one that I was thinking of using a 6" X 6" as the beam.  The span is 9' long.  This section of deck is only 6' wide and attached to the house on the other side via a ledger board that is a 2 x 10.  The joists are 2 x 6's. 

The question is : Am I going to run into a problem using a 6 x 6 as a beam? In other words, is the 6 x 6 stout (strong) enough to do this job across 9'?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on March 28, 2013, 12:26:41 PM
Can you draw it?  Seems to me a 6 foot span is nothing for 2x6's unless you want to load a concrete truck onto them!  As for the beam, why so big?  If they are hung on a 2x10 on the far side and are on at least 24" centers and the beam they will hang on off the house spans 9 feet then why not make it a 4x8 and put posts under it on 4' centers?  Or something like that?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on March 28, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
The AWC Residential Deck Guide (http://www.awc.org/pdf/DCA6-ResidentialDeckGuide-1009-onepager.pdf) has tables for beam and joist spans and other good stuff on the deck to house/cabin connections.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 28, 2013, 03:05:41 PM
Can you draw it?  Seems to me a 6 foot span is nothing for 2x6's unless you want to load a concrete truck onto them!  As for the beam, why so big?  If they are hung on a 2x10 on the far side and are on at least 24" centers and the beam they will hang on off the house spans 9 feet then why not make it a 4x8 and put posts under it on 4' centers?  Or something like that?

Well, here's a drawing (pardon my art skillz):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fspan.jpg&hash=e547552b89c674cea5ef690c307346a2)

The box on the right (to the left of "6 x 6 beam") is the beam.  The beam is supported on each end by a 6x6 post (per the code), a 10" concrete column, and a footer (all per code).

The problem is that the code specifies 3 2x6's which measure 4.5" across, not 5.5" like an actual 6x6.  Of course the code says that I can span 8'7" with those 3 2x6's, so I'm guessing that an extra 20% of wood (almost) in the beam should be good for an extra 5" of span?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on March 28, 2013, 04:26:10 PM
Quote
....the code specifies 3 2x6's which ....

Let's re -read that table. That looks to be for southern pine (top of table 3). Two things likely wrong with that; (1) Is there SP up there in WA? Not likely is my guess. Not with all the native timber species there and next door in Canada.  (2) ...partly my fault... the tables have not yet been corrected for the downrating that is to occur in June. SP ain't what it used to be. The stuff on the shelves today is the same as it will be in July and it doesn't measure up to the old numbers.  So let's forget about SP as it more likely is not available there and if it is it is not really up to the specs in that table. Rather than get out the Fb, etc charts and run some numbers of the new SP values let's assume one of the other species will be used.

Down a few rows in table 3 are the spans for Doug Fir, Larch, Hem-Fir, SPF, Ponderosa and a few others, all of which you likely have available.  Three 2x6 of those comes up with a beam span of 7-4, more than a little short of the 9 feet. That's for floor joist span up to 6 feet.  Three 2x8, a 4x10 or two 2x12 all do 9 feet or better.  Keep in mind that being a place where folks gather a deck can be loaded more heavily than an indoor living space floor. The tables assume LL=40 psf with a DL=10 psf. Allowing for more may not be a bad idea.

At least that is my take on that.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on March 28, 2013, 04:56:44 PM
I thought I should add, those tables are for decks. Decks don't have roofs. That's a porch. If there is a roof that's extra load (incl snow) and the deck guidelines are not applicable with any accuracy.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 28, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
I thought I should add, those tables are for decks. Decks don't have roofs. That's a porch. If there is a roof that's extra load (incl snow) and the deck guidelines are not applicable with any accuracy.

That's my poor drawing skills... that roof is the dimension line (I was just to lazy to put arrows at the ends and a space in the middle for the measurment)  ;D

My issue is that I don't have the 8" (or more) to put in there without making it step UP from the doorway... or slope pretty steeply towards the house. d*

Ok, just went out and looked at it again and I can get an extra couple inches. unfortunately it isn't a nice even 7.5" or 9.5" (for 2x8's or 2x10's) ... of course, I suppose I could go ahead and cut a piece of 6x6 post and notch it to take the 3 2x's to make up the 1.5 " on the one end ... I'm thinking that's what I'm going to have to do.

And somehow I wound up with and extra 10' PT 6x6 ... I thought I had it made!  Now I have to go buy 3 2x8's  :-[

Thanks Don - it just took a bit of thinking through.  Which is one reason I'm not rushing this job....

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on March 28, 2013, 05:44:12 PM
Doug Fir is what we use up here :)

In fact, not sure I ever saw dimensional lumber in anything else in the NW.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on March 28, 2013, 05:50:28 PM
Use a third center post and the depth of the beam decreases.  ?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 24, 2013, 05:47:16 PM
WOW! I can't believe it's been since March!

Anyway ... I have pictures of the project that has been keeping me occupied.  And here's a teaser... from last September... when the story begins....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4162.JPG&hash=b3add6a4053af4f07550509ba8fab858)

Our hero is not simply sitting on his behind loafing, but rather is starting to pull the old deck apart.

This is what it looked like at the start:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4163.JPG&hash=fbfb8f0f845c4b23399ebf97e10850ee)

When finished, this part will no longer be deck:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4166.JPG&hash=cca7c75f65dda1bb304dd0a2375ccab7)

Looking out the front door after a day or so:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4172.JPG&hash=38c540e7416a0708a1d773f40c282c82)

Hmmm... Boards not long enough? We can fix that! ???

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4171.JPG&hash=ae437771b7c50e158e53b3ed444d9fb3)

It's interesting to see how things were done just over 50  years ago... d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 24, 2013, 05:58:57 PM
Sadly, there aren't any photos of the disassembly of that front set of steps.  In part because they were falling apart as I was trying to take the boards off!

Frankly, they were an accident waiting to happen.

Ahhh, supplies.  I love a pile of lumber in the morning...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4174.JPG&hash=28699354bc033f407ef7b5db96d344f6)

You can see what was left of the stairs up on the landing and down the hill.

Watch that first step, it's a doozy!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4175.JPG&hash=519a8285604ae00b97d052c4c4abb001)

Construction begins ... finally.  The first pour

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4178.JPG&hash=8335c11b0265992b3192614b4ffbd78a)

And then we found this...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4185.JPG&hash=1ebc41e75c0c0202d14ee2ac84af1e34)

Rotten ends...  The joists were rotting ... but only where they were sticking out from under the eaves... apparently the "Lifetime" warranty on this lumber was for a lifetime less than 50 years.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 24, 2013, 06:19:13 PM
October 13: Out intrepid hero is working hard pouring a couple more footers and trimming off the j-bolt for the post footer.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4187.JPG&hash=66312dabb59fce6fcd4dcc919230a7cc)

October 19: The solution to the rot was to cut the joists off just under the eaves, put in two additional footers, posts, and beam to support their ends.  Then add additional joists out to where the ends were supposed to be, put in posts and beams there.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4189.JPG&hash=61935b27c8771f39df224a2ced262811)

The view from underneath:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4191.JPG&hash=39bc33fcea74036c61eef69f93f431a4)

From the front:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4193.JPG&hash=d161110111c003b0e1305fc7bb2f7837)

I'm not sure where the time went, but by November 24th, this was where the project was:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4225.JPG&hash=2b7ecc4ab4a6a7cc783762b3831f0bca)

Obviously I didn't make it to completion by Thanksgiving...  I had to grind out some channels in the concrete stairs that the new steps were going on top of so that the risers would work the way they were intended to.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4227.JPG&hash=de9a9b9b9f09af7d1f4760b155fc9593)





Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: rick91351 on July 24, 2013, 07:14:58 PM
WOW You have been busy feller.......................

I have been wondering what the heck has happened to you.  I almost sent the posse looking for you. 

Keep up the great work.... [cool]  Blessings Rick

 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 25, 2013, 05:03:22 AM
Thanks Rick!

So having failed to make Thanksgiving, I shifted to hopefully finish by Christmas...

Here is where I was on December 23rd

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4266.JPG&hash=3ba87bab90633f65a7f79d23f95272d0)

First one rail, then the next...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4267.JPG&hash=bfaab02ed35e692ac73f0a93f339c983)

Apparently there's another camera around here with more pictures of the completion of the railings, etc... of that front deck - and of the destruction of the deck along the front of the  house (to the left of the deck in the previous pics).

And I thought we had pictures of the deck around the corner past the kitchen, but apparently, after taking a break from Jan to April sometime I worked so fast Beautiful was unable to get any pictures of that!

Got the old deck torn down, the footers poured, and the columns as well!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4484.JPG&hash=f5286d8d1228c21079c763147635e24a)

Looking from the kitchen door (on the right edge of the photo) it would seem that some of the columns weren't aligned properly.  It was all an optical illusion which I couldn't convince Beautiful of until the deck was completed!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4489.JPG&hash=1f8f79e786e1492ba2b086779dfa7c6b)

The posts and beam left were eventually removed, but had to be left there to hold up the heat/air pump wiring and piping. Not to worry about the mess on the site ... it all got cleaned up.  You'll have to remember that this was done about 99.5 % by a 57 year old man ... my 16 YO step son hauled some of the concrete bags for me, and dug about 2 of the footers, but that's about it.

Then the fun begins - this was may 16th.  Don't be fooled, it was one of only a hand full of sunny days...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4514.JPG&hash=349a475eabb04df0b875363a67ab7efa)





Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 25, 2013, 05:40:50 AM
Great stuff!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 25, 2013, 08:30:47 PM
A few days later:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4518.JPG&hash=4a35d4934ce267e42e3dd298164d6432)

Things go much faster when you're not pouring concrete and digging holes... ;D

My two building inspectors:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4522.JPG&hash=d46ad5f8bb59332113badf05c5fce862)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4523.JPG&hash=5ddd665eb7bd531a79ce4b6dbefe9852)

June 1st:  We can now come and go through the kitchen again! [cool]

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4526.JPG&hash=b17e6729e33bb2caae676ec1f10bbc25)

Looking from "below":

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4527.JPG&hash=8cbe9bf479275cc05f0f189894facdaa)


Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 25, 2013, 08:42:29 PM
June 14th... this is essentially an "addition" to the deck from what used to be there previously.  This part is 12x10:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4607.JPG&hash=7ac26e01d2e9310b52e7a7e89ad638ec)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4610.JPG&hash=e563ef06f1d44f21abed24a611a35067)

And this is a great project to be doing to add to the toolset.  A 12" compound sliding miter saw was my addition to my tools in this part of the project (I added the cement mixer in the first part  :D)

I did the first part with a 10" (non-sliding) saw, and some of the cuts were truly difficult.  The new saw let me cut diagonals with one cut on the 5.5" deck board, and the 7.5" fascia boards.

Same section with the boarder boards on:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4613.JPG&hash=fae26a4eb4b5bff38cc108beaa2559f9)

A look at the spot where the hot tube is going to go:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4614.JPG&hash=8e06874e7b57a959dd469e767d773bd5)

Our hero finally putting railings up.  The big tall post is there to hold up what I'm calling a "Sun Roof".  A few light rafters and some clear corrugated plastic "roofing" from the house to a support from this post to a post just below where the picture cuts off:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4615.JPG&hash=28e311f06c11d3d91b9fe811d20b926c)

This last picture was on July 3rd.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 25, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
Fast forward to the 21st ...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4634.JPG&hash=234ba9f0c379b03c074b1499496a28c2)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthechristianprepper.com%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fphotos%2Fdeck%2FIMG_4635.JPG&hash=fa1847fe26dc84949e22d4ce3a2cb3cf)

Enjoying the fruits of our labors...

I have to credit Beautiful with finding those lights on the rail post tops.  Less than $10 each!  The best price I could find for others was between $15 and $20 each.  Plain wood post caps are around $10 ea for Pete's sake!

The "Sun Roof" is yet to be finished because she wants to paint the house, and I figure that will be easier before I put the rafters up for that.

The next step is actually to fix a small leak in the hot tub, grade the area where it goes and move it into place.  Along with that, a bench needs building and installing.

This weekend I'm doing a bunch of site cleanup.  Getting rid of scrap lumber, and generally getting the trash off the site so we can return to a normal life.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 26, 2013, 05:09:28 AM
Nice work!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 27, 2013, 10:28:53 AM
Thanks! Just got back from the big orange box store with wire and a GFCI outdoor outlet and box to wire it up for the hot tub.  Then I have to deal with grading the area where the tub goes and building it up to the right hight.

All that and more I'm trying to get done today before I go sit in the hot tub for a while and soothe these achy bones and muscles.  ;D

I've got a few projects around here I'm trying to get done as a surprise for Beautiful.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 22, 2013, 04:17:17 PM
So this time the plans have *really* changed!  :D

We have decided to sell the acreage and purchase some that is situated a bit better, with water of some sort and better access.  d*

It's listed (been listed about 6 weeks ago).

I have very mixed feelings about it because I truly love the views and how far "off grid" it is.  But... and it's a big but ... the road in is impassable about 5 months of the year unless you're snow-mobiling... even 4WD won't get it done.  And there just is no "easy" water.  I've explored a number of options and while I could drill, the estimates that I get from the local well drillers make me think that either they think I'm rich because I'm from the wet side, or the water really is 300-400 feet down (or more), even tho there are a number of signs that it's close to the surface in some places.

But the largest issue is the road in  - it's just unusable 6 months of the year.  If it was just me, I'd probably work with it, but it's not me.

So... we're keeping our options open.  Once it sells, I plan on purchasing something quickly.  20 acres+ ... preferably 40+ ... and it might just be a bit further east... out of the high desert area ... yeah that means Spokane area or Northern ID.

So.  There you have it.

That's the latest news from here
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 29, 2014, 10:49:17 AM
Wow ... over a year!

Finally went back up - no, it hasn't sold.  And I'm reconsidering that, anyway

I discovered that one of the pastors of my church is just crazy enough to climb up on the roof of my building and help finish it up - so we went up this last weekend.  Didn't get a thing done other than a tarp over it.  sigh.  We planned to get it done, but events conspired and after running back down the mountain twice - once because a tire on the truck was hissing at us - we decided that we were simply going to put a tarp over it.

But, we're planning on going back and attacking it to get it done
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 29, 2014, 03:08:50 PM
Wow ... over a year!

Finally went back up - no, it hasn't sold.  And I'm reconsidering that, anyway

I discovered that one of the pastors of my church is just crazy enough to climb up on the roof of my building and help finish it up - so we went up this last weekend.  Didn't get a thing done other than a tarp over it.  sigh.  We planned to get it done, but events conspired and after running back down the mountain twice - once because a tire on the truck was hissing at us - we decided that we were simply going to put a tarp over it.

But, we're planning on going back and attacking it to get it done

Glad to hear it!  When will you be going back?  Perhaps we can do lunch when you do, after all it's easy for me to decide to work in Omak ;)  We could get lunch at The Breadline which is a great place to eat.  Then, of course, should you need a place to visit and relax my place is always open ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 30, 2014, 04:39:07 AM
Well, it would be great to get back up there by mid-October, but I fear that the probability of it happening this year might be a little slim.  The last time I was up there in October it was snowing... (see my profile picture) - I left early thinking I might get snowed in.  That plus the financial planning may just be a bit of a problem.

The good part is that I have all the materials purchased already for the next trip.  The bad part is that if I hadn't had extra available, I might have had a few issues this time - especially if I'd had to replace the tire instead of a $10.50 repair at wally world.

We got to the property Saturday morning, and spend an hour or so showing him the place ... then unloaded and fired up the generator and cut the pieces for the roof.  He was going to send his son up with the nail gun to nail them in place, when I discovered that someone (like me) had taken the fitting off the hose and I didn't have one.  So we threw the valuable stuff into the truck and headed to HD to get one.  I got about 100 feet and remembered that I hadn't strapped the compressor back in and stopped to check on it - it had tipped over, but it looked ok.

Got back up the hill and unloaded ... was about to get it all set to go when I noticed that the compressor had leaked about half the oil out.  Not from damage, but through the fill spout.  Then his son was walking past the truck and heard the light hissing of the tire.  So back down the mountain we went again - this time a bit faster than before - trying to get to a place that AAA would come to, if it came to that.  Got to WalMart (since they were the only ones with a tire dept open by then) go tit fixed, grabbed some dinner (since by the time we got back up it would be too dark to cook) and headed back up.

Set up the tent in the dark and hit the sack.

The other great news was that the Genny started on the first pull.

Basically, another trip up would simply be gas and food, so it might happen yet.  I have to see if momma says the budget can stand it.  If it does happen, we're going to bring more guys, too.  One of his older kids is an actual carpenter.  So I've warned him to tell him not to laugh when he sees this place. :-)

I hope I can get back up there this year yet, but temps, weather, and money seem to be conspiring against that.

If it happens, I'll let you know! 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 14, 2014, 09:34:55 AM
Well, it did happen!

Went up this last weekend.  My friend from church, his 12 yo and another friend of his.  Got up there about 8 am on Saturday and set to work.

First thing was the three of them started working on the roof - put up the pieces we cut last time.

While they did that, I went to work overlaying the floor on the 1st level, since it had been exposed to the weather for the last 3 (maybe 4?) seasons.  I put "tar paper" down and then another layer of OSB.  The floor is nice and stable now with no worries of anyone falling through.  Sweet.

They finished the sheathing on the roof, and then we (they) put the roofing paper up there. About 1/2 way through the job, I made lunch.  They took a break and worked with the young one on firearms safety and such.  After lunch, it was back to work as tehy finished up the roof, and then I suggested we start wrapping the house.

The plan is to wrap the house with roofing paper and put cedar over it horizontally that I've cut lap joints into.  In talking with someone I know that is an actual carpenter (I only pretend to be one sometimes), he waid that the tar paper would work much better than Tyvek with the cedar, since the Tyvek rots in contact with cedar where tar paper won't.

We managed to get 1 and 3/4 outside walls done before we ran out of staples!  I would have thought that 1500 staples would have been a great plenty.

The good thing is, though, that the roof wil be protected for the winter now, and then in the spring I can actually begin to finish it.  It make such a difference to have a helper.

I'll accumulate the cedar boards over the winter, cut the laps as I get them, and be ready in the spring to put them up - unless I can find a quad or snowmobile for cheap.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on October 14, 2014, 11:41:38 AM
Pics?

So glad to hear you are back at it!   [cool]

As for last weekend, I was milling all day Saturday and am a good hour from you so visting will be tough when we're both hard at it ;)  Best bet is to plan a lunch/dinner on the 1st  day/night or the last...perhaps we can arrange something in the spring.

Either way, very exciting!  You will soon have a safe and secure cabin to sit in during the winter with a nice wood stove warming it up so the misses is happy ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 15, 2014, 06:51:58 AM
Pics?

So glad to hear you are back at it!   [cool]

As for last weekend, I was milling all day Saturday and am a good hour from you so visting will be tough when we're both hard at it ;)  Best bet is to plan a lunch/dinner on the 1st  day/night or the last...perhaps we can arrange something in the spring.

Either way, very exciting!  You will soon have a safe and secure cabin to sit in during the winter with a nice wood stove warming it up so the misses is happy ;)

Yeah, I know - pics or it didn't happen ... d*  But it did - I have a crummy cellphone pic of the sheathing, but forgot to take a pic of the paper being on it.  We were moving way to fast ... it was good.

Yeah, we'll have to set up a meet on the way in or out sometime ... probably on the way in when I need to stop and get something from HD or Wally world.

As for sitting in it in the winter, that I need to get some transportation in since beyond the county road, it is probably going to be closed by the end of October ... been looking at snowmobiles (but trying to get someone to reply to an email around here is like pulling teeth!)  I'd love to get a quad (it would have more utility), but that's a bit more expensive.  We'll see.

But yes, it is exciting to get back at it - and if I can figure out how to get up there in the snow, I will be up there a couple times this winter trying to finish it - maybe even a long weekend, rather than simply Sat & Sun
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on October 20, 2014, 06:30:56 AM
The guys that I have helping me from my church are crazy! They are bugging me to go back up there and work some more.   d*

My problem right now is budget.  I made the mistake of going to the dentist and learned of a LOT of dental work I need ... cost? Way more than I want to spend.... but then again, it is my health.

So, I'm thinking of trying somehow to get up there after the 1st of the year.  I'm hoping to find a quad or snow mobile that I can borrow from someone.  I was going to ask around at church yesterday, but we got in a hurry to get home since we needed to run a few errands before 1:30... Well, it's not like it's next week!

I know I can rent a quad from "The Rental Place" in Okanogan, but that's a little over $200/day ... I'd rather borrow one and save the $200 to buy my own in the future.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on November 12, 2014, 08:59:39 AM
So.... They've convinced me to go back up this coming weekend.  We are going to attempt to do the following:

1.  Finish wrapping the place in roof paper
2.  Mount the windows and door
3.  Put siding on the gable ends

At this point it will be completely enclosed.  If possible I'd like to also...

Put siding on the parts that have openings (windows and door)
Put shutters over the windows.

Of course, if I get the first part done on Saturday, we'll be sleeping in the cabin, rather than the truck  ;D  But I need to find some sort of heat regardless.

Wish us luck! (If Loup Loup Pass shows much snow, we will be aborting the mission :-[ :-\)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on November 13, 2014, 08:25:49 AM
Loup Loup should be fine but bring some heat!  0 degree sleeping bags will help but it is going to be brutally cold.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 14, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
So the first order of business is pictures of the finished roof - well, only one, it's all I have:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FfinishedRoof.jpg&hash=74a5f3bdba4af74f34b6bece882a0d7c)

You can see the new pieces of sheathing up on the top.

That's the son of one of my church's pastors ... and the dog from another friend of his that came up with us.

After getting that roof on, we papered it, and papered most of the exterior walls.

As for the most recent weekend that we were hoping to head up and finish up some stuff and begin siding it (windows, door, siding, etc...) but the mission was aborted.  Not because of snow or cold - I had managed to get 0 degree bags and a heater to go with us.  We would have been plenty warm - even if we had to sleep in the truck!

But alas, my friend (the father of the boy in the pic above) apparently came down with the flu just before we left - and we got as far as Cle Elem (with me asking all the way if I needed to turn back) before I finally decided - without his input - that we were going to turn back.  He was in a world of hurt.

So that was that.  Sadly, it will now wait until spring, or until I can afford a snowmobile or quad or some Track and Go's  (or similar)

I am looking forward to getting back up and getting it finished.  Well, ok getting the outside of it finished.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 10, 2015, 10:04:05 AM
Well, I was looking at ol' jar heads thread.  It was making me green with envy that he can get up to his place even in the winter.

I've been toying with the idea of a cheap snowmobile or maybe two and a flatbed trailer to haul it/them with.  And then a couple sleds to two behind for hauling supplies.  There is a nice spot at the end of the county maintained road that I could park the truck and trailer and sled up to the property on the machines for a couple days when I wanted to.  I think it would be awesome, but I'd have to pack in almost everything.  I'd want the shed/cabin to be more complete than it is now, including stovepipe (at least) for a small heat stove.  It wouldn't take much to warm the place up.

Anyway, maybe next year.  after 23 years of living on the west coast, I really miss the 4 seasons...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on January 11, 2015, 08:51:33 AM
We've both had to walk in and ATV in, in the past and if planned that can just add to the adventure :)  If it were me I'd get one good sled (can handle two people easily) and a tow sled to haul in gear on.  Depending on the distance you need to travel it can be a short trip in and out to get stuff in for a weekend stay.

You won't haul in a lot of gear but if you have the place secure you can stock up supplies in the late summer or early fall and then sled in later to do some work on the place while the wood stove keeps it warm :)

Or just sled in with packs on and spend a great weekend enjoying the place :)

One thing I'd do though is install an underground cistern and fill it up in the summer months so when you arrive in the winter you don't have to haul water.  You may need to install a tank heater if the cistern isn't deep enough and freezes but with some good preps and a genny it should be quite doable.

Incidentally the top of my cistern is about 22" down and it does not freeze up in the winter.  Sure it might get a layer of ice on top, but under the ice is plenty of water for me.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 02, 2015, 05:43:10 AM
Wow - been a while since I posted.

Lots going on in the personal "space" but as far as I am concerned I'm going to hang onto the property.  I may wind up having to fall back to there for a period of life, who knows.

That's what I was thinking though about the sled... A single good sled that is two person capable, and a tow behind sled.  Even a one person machine that can tow a sled that hold one person would be good, too.  Altho that would mean multiple trips up and down the mountain. Which after three or four might make the road in navigable by the 4x4 pick up  ;)

I've been up the road nearly all the way on a quad (actually I think it was a Polaris "razor" equivalent - that was 7 years ago!)

An ATV/Quad would be more functional, though, as it could be used for crawling around the place in the summer, too, and running into Conconully, etc... But transporting them on the flatbed trailer would certainly come in handy.

I see the pass near my place is just about devoid of snow, which means I might be able to get in there 4 to 6 weeks early this year.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 28, 2015, 06:47:12 AM
Ok, I have a question - a structural construction type question.

I'm looking ahead to the next project (finally!) the build of the actual cabin, and am trying to think of an easy way to build the roof system.  I shall describe what I have in mind, then ask the question(s).

The design is for rafters with collar ties at wall height (it's an open ceiling) - and I do believe the rafter system is plenty strong, however, it's the part from the rafters out that has me thinking.  what I have thought of so far is:

1.  On top of the rafters 1" T&G
2.  On top of that, 2X lumber to create a space for insulation and ventilation
3.  between the 2x (probably 2x4 or 2x6) insulation
4.  On top of the 2x, another layer of 1" T&G (because it's available cheap).
5.  On top of the outermost layer of T&G, steel roofing.

My question is, can I actually use T&G in step 4? or is that not a strong enough or functional enough diaphragm?  I can go with ply or OSB, but the I have a possible source of inexpensive T&G that would save me a bunch of $$$

I hope to hear from some of the more experienced builders!

Thanks.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on April 28, 2015, 02:22:38 PM
Tryinig to picture what you want to do:  are you aiming for an open rafter look?  Meaning rafters that can be seen with a roof sandwich on the top of that?  If so it wouldn't look at nice (I think) with plywood or OSB on top of the rafters.  I'd think T&G Pine above the 'false' rafters would look better.

My parents had something like this.  what they did was frame the roof with trusses that allowed for insulation and structural integrity but left a vaulted ceiling underneath.  Then the underside was sheathed in T&G wood with false beam rafters under that to give the look they wanted.  Can't say exactly how they did it but if I had to I'd make a double roof perhaps.

2x8/10/12 (depends on the roof engineering) rafters set on the walls with rafter ties and collar ties sheathed on top with T&G pine covered with R10 foam X2 covered with OSB or plywood (long screws required), felted and roofed.  This is what a neighbor did more or less and he swears it's more than enough insulation.  Not vented either.

OK maybe I wouldn't do that (still thinking)...I did my back room with 2x8 rafters, osb, R10 Foam, OSB and then roofing over felt but I insulated the 2x8 rafters too.

Another option might be to frame the roof and insulate per normal, then screw false rafters directly onto the underside on top of the ceiling T&G to give the look of open rafters.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on April 28, 2015, 05:00:53 PM
I guess I am right in assuming, like OJH, that you are after a cathedral ceiling type of appearance, but with a beam effect across the wall tops?

And a note, just to use the correct terminology.... your reference "The design is for rafters with collar ties at wall height " .... Those would be rafter ties, whose purpose is to tie the wall tops together... Collar ties are further up the rafters, near the peak and are used to tie the peak together. Metal straps over the exterior can be subbed for collar ties. Ordinary rafter ties are supposed to be on every rafter pair whereas collar ties, once every 4 feet. If you use larger members, like beams, for the rafter ties they can probably be spaced further apart, but that is getting into engineer country.

OSB and plywood sheet goods have the distinct advantage of making the roof diaphragm rigid, able to withstand wind forces. 1x boards, T&G or not, don't offer anywhere near the rigidity of sheet materials unless they are run at a diagonal. Sub flooring used to be 1x's run diagonally. I'm not sure about old roofs, but they would not have great rigidity unless the 1x's were diagonal. Running the 1x perpendicular to the rafters (horizontal or lengthwise down the roof) can look good, but is not super rigid.  For the OSB or plywood to work properly it should be the first layer nailed on the top of the rafters.

IF you were to pursue the 1x T&G first layer the best insulation would likely be layers of 4x8 sheets of XPS or polyiso foam. Then a layer of OSB secured thru the foam to the rafters. Then the finish roofing.

If I had a good supply of cheap T&G I think I would use as much of it as possible inside and even as exterior siding. Although outside I personally think lap siding is better suited. But use 4x8 sheets of OSB or plywood to make a structurally solid roof assembly. Ditto for the walls.

A well designed and built cathedral ceiling is not cheap and is one of the more difficult insulation projects. Spray in place foam makes the insulation easier and good, but adds to the cost.

FWIW,  WA state energy code calls for R38 minimum ceiling insulation. Some counties R49.  That is a lot of foam. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on April 29, 2015, 09:08:10 AM
Ok, perhaps a bit more info will clear up the picture...   ;D

OJH, I think you have the general idea - a roof sammich on top of the rafters... worst case, I'd say your neighbor did is what I'm thinking of - I'm just thinking if I have all the T&G available, I'd like to use that - but (and it's an important but) - I'd rather it be strong and workable, rather than pretty until the first good wind comes along  d*

The plans call for 4X8 rafters in pairs, with the rafter ties also being 4X8 being placed in a 4" space between them - these combo's are spaced 4' OC with only 1 set of rafters at each end of the cabin.

Yes, I would like to put T&G on the sky side of the 4x8's so that it's visible from inside the cabin (yes a vaulted ceiling), then insulation, then an outer sheathing, and then the "shingles" (Steel).

The walls are log so no T&G needed there.

Don, your comments on diagonal-ness (if that's a word) leads me to another question of, can that outer layer of sheathing be T&G diagonally installed? Or is it going to be too far from the rafters to do much good?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 18, 2015, 07:39:18 AM
Don ... I would assume from your earlier comments that actual tongue and groove planks really aren't up to snuff on a roof sandwich as the first layer.

So after some research, I was wondering if beadboard sheets would be sufficient?  My issue is that the thickest I can find them available it 19/32 ... (7/8 -ish?)  is that or the 7/16 going to be sufficient, do you think?  That would give the T&G "look" (sort of) without sacrificing the overall integrity of the diaphragm?

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on May 18, 2015, 08:23:42 AM
The panels should be stamped for structural use on the back side if they would be okay for the purpose desired.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 12, 2015, 02:33:17 PM
Had a discussion with the assistant pastor of my church - his "real job" (full time) is a carpenter - he said rather than using standard 1" T & G (usually 3/4" in reality) to use 2" T&G (1 3/4" really) as the "base" layer.  Then the insulation and then some sheathing.  His comments were to put them in with 16 penny sinkers - or screws with better shear values, then put on top what I want/need. 

I expressed my concern over the racking forces/diaphragm,  and that's what he suggested on a 12:12 pitch.

Figure since he's been at this for 20 + years he probably would be a dependable source.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 14, 2015, 05:52:09 AM
Watching 'Cabin Builders' recently I noticed they often use T&G for the ceiling in their cabins.  I'm thinking they sandwich it with R10 Foam and sheathing on top but am not certain since they don't show that part.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 15, 2015, 02:22:03 PM
yeah, that's the general idea.  Should give me a bit of insulation in the ceiling and the T&G look.

I am eager to get the shed/cabin done and move on to this new project.  It is about 10 times larger in scope but I've been plannign and planning it for a number of years and think I have a final scheme of how to accomplish it nailed down. (no pun intended  d*)

I hope to be able to start it up here within the next month ... yeah, and this project was supposed to be finished about 4 years ago, too  ???
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 15, 2015, 03:03:56 PM
If it were me I'd go with two sheets of R20 at a min but then I might also use a false ceiling to get the look I want and put in an R40 roof ;)  it does get cold up there ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on June 15, 2015, 04:21:33 PM
FWIW, you can't have too much ceiling / roof insulation. We have R45 to R50 total of batts plus blown in cellulose in our cabin ceiling. We initially installed R13 in the planned 2 step process. After that was in and the ceiling installed we blew in the cellulose the following summer. Huge difference, both summer and winter.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 04, 2015, 08:21:56 PM
Ok ... so, the more things change the more they stay teh same.

Today was my last day of employment until I find a new position.  :-[

The good news is that I already have a lot of irons in that fire. 

The even better news is that I am planning on heading up to the property this weekend to do some work on the "shed" and start laying out some of the prep work for the build of the actual cabin. It's about time - it's only been what? 7 years or so?

I've got to do this on a bit of a budget, but if I can get a few things that are in the works to pop into the active mode, the budget will be there ... and to save some money I'm going to try to go up for 4 days or more at a crack, rather than just a weekend - that will save me the gas money for those trips I combine two weekends into a single 4 day weekend.

Hopefully OJH will see this as I am going to attempt to contact you via email - I have a few milling questions to ask of you ... and I'd rather have an email conversation - or even a phone call (maybe even over a beer on weekend when we're both up that way  [cool])

I've got help lined up for some of the heavy lifting and dirty work, (and high stuff)... so it should start to move a bit faster.

That's the update - pictures to follow.  Heck I might even have pics from the property as I have a hotspot and I am hoping it will connect while I'm there.  One of the possible employment situations will allow remote work occassionaly - which would be great!

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 05, 2015, 07:00:11 AM
Sorry to hear about the job situation!  Always tough but we've both weathered that before right?

Too bad I won't be up this weekend (getting new batteries in Kennewick for the cabin instead) but your plan is a good one!  I always got more done when I could take 4 or 5 days rather than 2 (which is really 1 in the end)...I always took advantage of 'down time' on the job to get more done at the cabin and just prepped for it as much as could be.

I'll PM a good email as it's changed.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 21, 2015, 10:50:47 AM
Well, the wife saw to it that I didn't have even 2 full days.

She had a family emergency and requested that I come home to "babysit" the two kids - 18 & 20 ... go figure.

AH well, probably just as well, since the place is fixin' to burn down, it looks like.  The red square is my property.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotfrom2015-08-21-09%3A56%3A12.png&hash=7fed062a7330d18dbc60d8f9bda67b46)

I just checked and those angry red squares to the south west have now changed to orange... hopefully a good sign - altho we're still red-flagged to the end of the night
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 21, 2015, 11:03:15 AM
A few images to remember it by (in case).... and to give a sense of what was actually accomplished in the day and a half I was up there...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2F0808151228-00.jpg&hash=17e0a40a52a8518512346122585eef5f)

You can see some of the paper was blown off the roof over the winter/spring.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2F0808151435-01.jpg&hash=79084992dcde282e9649aaa81981d1d8)

A closer look at the side and by the door opening

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2F0808151435-00.jpg&hash=1f15414d28ac82b23f92e1da4a4bc3ea)

And finally a close up of the corner treatment ...

As you can tell some of the openings need to have the sheeting cleared yet... (and the gable ends closed up)  and I didn't take a picture of the opposite side which I did at least as high up ... it would have been nice to have the extra couple days for that, but then it would have been good to have help for those day, too.

Maybe next time - if it's still there in a week or two
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 21, 2015, 12:26:34 PM
The wind is forcing the fire south and pushing VERY hard (30-50mph) so unless the yellow dots turn to that angry red you might be ok!  Here is a map that updates more frequently: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?ll=48.700931%2C-119.443359&z=11&t=h%2CWind_in_6_hrs%2CMODIS_thermal%2CCurrent_fire&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.propertylinemaps.com%2Fp%2Fpublic_land_map%2FUSA%2FUSA_wildland_fire.txt
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 21, 2015, 12:32:06 PM
Yeah, been looking for more accurate info.  A map on the county Emergency Management page made it look like the one fire was all the way across the north end of Leader Lake and approaching the county seat!  The way it was drawn it could have grazed my place, so I'm a bit frantic trying to find accurate info.  That map was from the site you just gave me.... but it was so small I couldn't see where the boundaries were... I'm checking it out now.

I hope your place is doing well, also!

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 21, 2015, 12:47:57 PM
Thanks OJH for that link to the map ... it is more current than the Google Maps version, but the GM still shows pretty much the same info, just with a bit of a lag, I guess.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotFrom2015-08-21-14%3A40%3A41.png&hash=6dd64b6668d6772d7cfcd6b77bcabe74)

Where the cross in the middle is ... that's the middle of my place.  It looks like it might have within the last 24 hours, grazed the top of my place, but that's it.  I'm hoping so.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 21, 2015, 01:58:48 PM
Hoping with you!  The black circles are supposed to be old burns (as in no longer burning but did burn within the last week or so).
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 21, 2015, 07:33:05 PM
Yeah, but now the two fires have bridged the gap - right at Buzzard Lake - and if there's a wind in the right direction tonight, I could wind up with charcoal tomorrow.

Some of the hams are telling me that Omak Airport was reporting zero visibility and 61 MPH winds.  The road from Omak to Conconully is blocked by guard troops. and Conconully is a ghost town (95% evacuated.)

In the 15 years I've lived up here, I've not seen anything like this before... and this is only ONE of the many fires going on!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 22, 2015, 12:49:02 PM
Just when I thought I could breathe a sigh of relief ... (at 10:15 this morning):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotFrom2015-08-22-10%3A15%3A46.jpg&hash=e34441da76a53b5b85ab8d240b8406b4)

... I get home from running an errand and find this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotFrom2015-08-22-14%3A35%3A23.jpg&hash=2a99eccc46fb869a2704c4b19ad1b709)

Areas that have been "out" for over 24 hours are flaring up again, and areas to the south that were dying down are now moving north...  >:(

Here's hoping things cool off and some rain moves in this afternoon and evening
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 22, 2015, 04:15:57 PM
Fire movement seems pretty light today compared to the last few and I think we'll see a trend that way if the weather is as cool as it's supposed to be tonight (possible frost in the mountains).  No rain in the forecast though.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 22, 2015, 05:45:03 PM
Well, they did move the fire boundary on the fire north of me .... closer to my property!  ... I am hoping it doesn't go much further.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 22, 2015, 06:57:17 PM
I drove through much of the 'yellow' section up on the flats and to Conconully today and it was pretty calm except the area south and maybe west of Conconully.  Up on 155 I drove almost to Disautel and it was pretty much over with some smoldering ash and a few very small fires that the fire crews were ignoring.

Still some scary burns going but if we're lucky we may be past the main event now.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 23, 2015, 07:08:38 AM
Well, here is the latest anyway ... and it's moved closer to my place, once again:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotFrom2015-08-23-08%3A59%3A54.jpg&hash=b68c9ac6b0131ec5eb479575224251ce)

The fire to the south has now moved a bit north.

Good to hear that the majority of it is out, I am hoping, however, that the last bit of fire to the south will be addressed quickly.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 23, 2015, 07:10:36 AM
Not much movement lately but your area sure looks sketchy :(  I wonder if they are trying to let it burn out?  One thing I can tell you is that in the burn areas I've been to, with the exception of the Hailey Cr area where the winds drove the fire 60mph, the firefighters have been saving a LOT of structures so there is hope yet bud!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 23, 2015, 12:50:11 PM
Yeah, there is a cabin/home with a barn about 1/2 mile south of my place that I think they would defend well before my "structure" (if you want to call it that)...

So that is my hope, anyway.  I am happy that so far, at least, it looks like it's tried from the north and now the south, but hasn't got that far.  I'm praying it doesn't go beyond where it is currently
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 23, 2015, 11:08:15 PM
Well, I thought I would check the satellite images before heading to bed and this is what I see from the combined MODIS and HMS Thermal Satellites..:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotFrom2015-08-24-00%3A53%3A17.jpg&hash=2b338cc4d8c29005f0a52e1e5379c3c9)

So I zoomed in to see where the HMS sat puts it at:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotFrom2015-08-24-00%3A56%3A08Zoomed.jpg&hash=2c4165b89b1c4e53863cfe5fd1840d36)

This puts it still down slope of the cabin, however... I don't hold much hope at this point, what with the wind and apparently the movement it's had in the last few hours.  If I head up this coming weekend, I pretty much expect to find nothing but a burned shell.   :(  Then again, I am married, so I am probably wrong  ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: nailit69 on August 24, 2015, 01:40:34 AM
  If I head up this coming weekend, I pretty much expect to find nothing but a burned shell.   :(  Then again, I am married, so I am probably wrong  ;D

I know this is serious stuff but this cracked me up... let's hope she's right... and you're wrong.  Good luck
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 24, 2015, 07:16:00 AM
Well, I have to try to keep my sense of humor somehow, right?  :)

And this morning it looks even more likely, however, that this is probably the one time I'm right.

I am hoping this is completely out by the weekend so I can get up there as soon as possible and assess the damage (if any)

In reality, I'm actually more concerned about losing the trees on the property than I am the half finished building
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Rys on August 24, 2015, 07:59:03 AM
Hope you dodged the bullet!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 24, 2015, 08:47:15 AM
 :( Buzzard lake took a beating and many houses were lost up there.  Very sad!

Your area is looking rough but I will tell you that most of the area is accessible to residents so it's likely you'd get up there if you came out.  If you do let me know as I'll likely be here still.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 24, 2015, 11:54:23 AM
Yeah, I've been wondering about those folks along the county maintained part of the road up ... how they are doing.  Based on the satellite data and knowing that there is a lot of open, dry grasses heading up that road, I would guess they aren't doing well at all...

If I can I will be out Friday sometime...  That is what I am shooting for anyway
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 24, 2015, 12:50:21 PM
Some spots up there were untouched, as if the fire just passed them by for no reason...you will be surprised at how it just skirted right around things that make no sense at all.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 24, 2015, 02:12:05 PM
Some spots up there were untouched, as if the fire just passed them by for no reason...you will be surprised at how it just skirted right around things that make no sense at all.

I am hoping this is true in my case, but... from this it looks like it might have hit my shed...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FZoomedScreenshotFrom2015-08-24-16%3A04%3A20.jpg&hash=98b3a7d9ca2235a64fbe80aa63270227)

I'm fairly certain I've places the "+" in the correct spot, so I'm hoping that the data layer for the fire outline is off... or that this is where they "declared" the fire perimeter to be, but it really wasn't quite there.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 24, 2015, 02:15:37 PM
I'll say a prayer for ya bud!  I've seen lots of structures standing that could easily have been nuked so there is hope yet!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 24, 2015, 02:16:20 PM
Is you place off Buzzard?  I'm often about doing damage assesments etc so might be able to swing by if it's reasonably close to where I'm at
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 24, 2015, 02:34:06 PM
Is you place off Buzzard?  I'm often about doing damage assesments etc so might be able to swing by if it's reasonably close to where I'm at

Yes, it is on Buzzard Lake Road... but a few miles north of the lake itself...

I'll send you coords you can plug into google maps to get it precisely.

What I wouldn't give to have a friend with realtime satellite access ...  :o
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 24, 2015, 03:39:43 PM
Looks closer to Salmon Crk than HWY 20...is that right?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 24, 2015, 06:00:29 PM
Looks closer to Salmon Crk than HWY 20...is that right?

Yes, as the crow flies.  However, the easiest way to it is from Hwy 20 up Buzzard Lake past the lake.  I don't know of a road back in there from Salmon Creek Road
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 25, 2015, 10:17:48 AM
I made a run up almost to Jeff's place (maybe 1/2 mile to 3/4 of a mile from) and it's touch and go!  Sure hope it survives but the entire area has been burned.  HOWEVER, it's not like the hottest burn areas.  This area was hit or miss and still had a lot of greenery that survived so it's possible!!!

Good luck Bud!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 25, 2015, 05:44:47 PM
Thanks OJH ... However, since then this is the map:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockofagesranch.org%2Fsite%2Fweb%2Fphoto%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FScreenshotFrom2015-08-25-19%3A34%3A56.jpg&hash=eba444cd43209e33e747d2edad8a7279)

I got nothing to add
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 26, 2015, 07:02:52 AM
Looking at the reports this morning, and the map again, it may not be as bad as it looks... at least I keep telling myself that.

Thanks again OJH for driving up that way.  I hope the place you saw near where you turned around made it through that last flare up...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 26, 2015, 07:24:48 AM
No problem, only wish I made it all the way.

it's been challenging for sure and the fire does not want to give up but we're hearing 70% chance of rain this weekend!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 26, 2015, 08:25:46 AM
That's great! I am hoping it does rain...

Here's little bit of "fun" I had with it this morning...

http://www.rockofagesranch.org/site/web/photo/images/images/FireMapVideo.flv (http://www.rockofagesranch.org/site/web/photo/images/images/FireMapVideo.flv)

I couldn't figure out how to embed it, so I just put a link to it.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 26, 2015, 01:31:58 PM
What is an FLV file?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on August 26, 2015, 02:59:19 PM
FLV = Flash Video, the de facto standard for streaming video (web based)

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 26, 2015, 05:32:20 PM
Hmmm never seen it before ;)  Must be getting out of touch with all the cabin life! LOL

So what player can you use to watch it?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on August 26, 2015, 05:52:35 PM
I use VLC Media Player (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html)

Or use Handbrake (https://handbrake.fr/) to convert it to MP4 or MKV.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 26, 2015, 09:09:24 PM
I use Movie Player - on linux...

I could do an MP4, but it's about 5 times the size.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on November 28, 2015, 06:54:21 PM
So, I got the tax bill in the mail today.

Apparently, because of the fire, the value of my property has declined ... to slightly less than 50% of what they were saying it's worth (and taxing me on).

That will save me enough to put steel on the place, if it wasn't burned to the ground.  ;D d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Jared Drake on December 10, 2015, 04:26:58 PM
I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I will. I got excited when I saw "ham shack". I don't have a shack and probably never will, but I do have a corner in my bedroom. I like small radios. I'm KF5TJC, Jared in Arkansas. I posted here because I figured you'd have a better chance of seeing it than a private message. Sorry to interrupt.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 18, 2015, 08:00:57 PM
Nah, don't worry about interrupting.

My life is one big interruption of late... d*  I think I am going to take some action to fix that, though.

Didn't get to the property this year except for a few days between jobs.  And then family business interrupted that and I had to come home.  Then the fires happened and I haven't been able to get back up there since.

I am planning on it as soon as the snow is out, though.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 01, 2016, 09:56:32 AM
Happy new year to every one.

Yesterday I received the news that 1) the place my employer was hoping to put me on a project decided for some reason not to put me there... 2) then they informed me that they could no longer afford to have me sitting on the bench ... at which #3) my wife got pissed at me and called my employer (I guess former employer now) a liar because they were looking out for the interests of their business as was expected.

The good news is that they are still attempting to market me to at least one other possible client, and are looking for others. But, as of Jan 1, 2016 I am once again, unemployed.  You can probably tell, I'm not exactly thrilled about it.

So, any trips and development on the property will be put on hold until further notice.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on January 01, 2016, 10:30:40 AM
Happy New Year...  sorry it is starting off rough.
They say you sometimes have to hit rock bottom before things turn around.  With any luck, this is the bottom and things will start to look up as the new year gets going.

Best of luck!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 01, 2016, 12:41:47 PM
Thanks!

I don't think it could get much worse than yesterday.  All the news one right after the other... by the end of the night I was one grumpy elf...

Can't go anywhere but up from here!

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 23, 2016, 09:00:15 AM
Well, like I said, it can only go up from there... and it did.  Back to work on Monday.

Of course, there are other things that need fixing... or maybe they're unrepairable, but I'll have to determine that yet.

Meanwhile, I can still start putting some cash by to finish the shed and start the construction of the "real" cabin
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 01, 2016, 04:54:40 PM
Change of plans ... again.

This is going to be the summer of the big push.  I am not going to focus on the 12x12 as much and start working on the actual cabin.

The first part will be to fell some trees and cut a road (yeah, more like a trail wide enough to get the truck through) to the building site for the cabin.  Also dig the foundation, and pour it. Then somewhere along in there I've made arrangements with a friend with a mill to come mill up some trees for me for the cabin for timber walls ... and most of the lumber I'll use for flooring and roofing.  I have a crew of 3 or 4 or more guys I know that are chomping at the bit to come up and help put it all together.

With an really aggressive schedule it should be done just as the snow starts to fly. But my experience with those really aggressive schedules is that they usually take more time than usual, so I'm figuring realistically, probably mid-summer 2017.  But I am going to push the crew hard to get it done before then.  ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 01, 2016, 05:51:01 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 17, 2016, 07:11:37 AM
I'm getting the itch to get to my place and explore a bit.  So I was thinking of heading up on Memorial Day weekend.  Leaving Friday.  It might just be an overnight thing... head up Friday afternoon, and return Saturday.  Just to I remind myself of the lay of the land, if you will.  Get a bit of motivation. Re-connect with the land.

To that end, I might not even take the truck, but rather the bike.  After all, if it's a 1 day trip, 60mpg is way better than 14-15 mpg!  I'd have to figure out how to pack a tent, etc... and decide if I can ride that bike up the road to the property.

Of course, that means that if I get the itch to actually do work, there's no tools, so the only thing I could do would be to rent the excavator, have it delivered, and work on putting the "drive" in to the building site.  And then, if I haven't accidentally killed myself by then, dig the foundation hole/trench.  Of course that means I should get the tripod and laser level for making certain the bottom of the trench/hole is level and uniform.

Hmmm... Gonna give this some thought.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: nailit69 on May 18, 2016, 01:08:36 AM
Speaking from experience...  it's gonna take a day just to dig the hole.  I rented a "Mini" and spent 1 full day digging and moving dirt with 2 guys on shovels just for the foundation and that was after clearing the sagebrush.  If you go alone it'll take more time to do the "handwork"... try to get that extra day cuz you'll need it. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 22, 2016, 01:54:15 PM
Well, currently the plan is to head up Monday after work, or at o-dark-thirty Tuesday morning.  Get there, make arrangements for the excavator to be delivered late Tuesday afternoon (like the last thing they do before closing up for the day), drive it up to the site (I don't think they will deliver it right to the site... but I'll ask).

Why in the afternoon? for a couple reasons. 1. I have to work.  I have to actually do SOMEthing that looks like work!... then, I also want to check out and mark where I want the drive in to the building site is actually going to go.  This is so that when I have the excavator, I'm not simply winging it based on a guess.  I'll have been over it yet one more time before the excavator arrives.  And finally, so that I have time to walk down to where it is going to be delivered.

Once I have it, I will start working on the road. If I get it by 4, I should be able to get started working by 5, and knock off around 8 or 8:30.  A good 3+ hours.  Then up at the crack of dawn and at the very least finish up the drive.  If I don't get the hole dug, I'm ok with that.  Getting the drive in would put me ahead of my original schedule by at least a week. and that week would be the week for digging the foundation hole.

Unfortunately, I have to be back in the city Thursday night for a Friday appointment.  Then, if the budget allows, I will head back over the long weekend. and get more done!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 24, 2016, 12:01:10 PM
Nope, not what is happening.

The plan now is ... either Friday afternoon or Saturday morning, head up.  Arrange to have the excavator delivered on Saturday first thing in the AM (If I leave Friday) or as soon as possible on Saturday... work it all weekend, as well as running loads of CMUs up for the stem wall.  I figure every time I head up the hill, I can take a load of some of them. 4 or 5 times up the hill I'll have a couple courses ready to stack once the foundation is poured and cured.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: nailit69 on May 25, 2016, 02:41:09 AM
Too bad they can't deliver everything right to your site... packing block anywhere is a real b!tch.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 25, 2016, 10:15:39 AM
Too bad they can't deliver everything right to your site... packing block anywhere is a real b!tch.

Don't I know it!  But that's ok.  Strangely, in my mind doing it this way is easier on my budget LOL
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Yonderosa on May 25, 2016, 12:52:24 PM
Man I sure hope you can get this rolling. We've enjoyed our place for eight years now.  Got some county compliance issues but we're paying the ransom/bribe (7K) and should be back to no worries soon. We don't get over often enough but EVERY time we wish we weren't leaving.  Best of luck and hope you can finally get someplace you can enjoy in this beautiful part of the world.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: nailit69 on May 26, 2016, 04:15:55 PM
Don't I know it!  But that's ok.  Strangely, in my mind doing it this way is easier on my budget LOL

That's the nice thing about CMU... you can do as much or as little as you want.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 06, 2016, 03:53:40 AM
Hmmmmmm    ???  No pics yet huh?  Figured we'd at least see the survival post from the fires  ???

Hope it's because you are busy busy busy working!  c*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 06, 2016, 05:17:56 AM
That, and i cant seem to find the cable for the camera!

I'll be trying to get them up in thw next coupe days.

The plan is to head back Friday after work. Hopefully get there by about 7 if i dont make too many stops  :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 06, 2016, 05:47:40 AM
I'll be heading up this weekend also but not to the cabin.  Have a milling job in Mazama that will take me all week to complete (155 logs).  I'm hoping the weather cools down though!  Would suck to mill 7 or 8 days straight in this heat!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 08, 2016, 05:32:24 AM
Called to rent a miniexcavator and the guy says,miniexcavators are only for loose dirt and stuff".

Really? Well, i might have an alternative way in that won't require as much work. I just need to clear ir with the owner south of me so i can cross about 50 feet of his property.  There is a gentle slope from there up to my building site that would be way better than trying to cut in a bunch of switchbacks.

Going to call them today and see if we can work something out. Wish me luck!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: nailit69 on June 08, 2016, 06:54:55 AM
Lesson #1  never tell em what you're really doing with it and always get the insurance.  I rented one from Midway... told em I was digging a hole. 

I needed to get a F-150 pickup truck back from Lake Shasta a few years ago and tried to rent a uhaul trailer... "sorry, our equipment isn't rated for that" so I had a buddy go back in and tell them he needed to haul his "Honda Civic" and they didn't have a problem.

Good luck with the neighbor
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 08, 2016, 10:15:16 AM
We dug 600 feet of water line in at my place with a mini-x and it was mostly rock! ha!  BIG rocks too!  but my guy is a pro and though we broke some teeth the E35 bobcat did the job just fine.  He also dug a 10 foot deep, by ten wide and 20 long hole for a root cellar with it.

Agreed, don't tell them what it's for! ha!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 20, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
Yeah... Lesson learned.  Next time im simply going to say im digging a hole.  Tyey dont need to know what else i might do with it.

Wanted to get the corners pinned so called a survey company.  The property to the south was suveyed year before last, so i figured it wouldnt be too big a deal.  $1500 to find the one pin that the survey put in then or $3500 for all 4 corners.   One of which is already marked with a brass monument as a cadastral marker.  Sheesh!  I think i just need a GPS thats accurate to about 20 feet and the coordinates!

Thinking of heading up next weekend to see what i can accomplish ... Stay tuned
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on June 25, 2016, 03:52:30 AM
Just remember that a GPS is only accurate to, say, 20 feet in any direction.....so really a 40 foot radius.

If you can find that pin you can survey close enough with a Lensatic Compass and a partner.  Look up the Declination (I think it's 19 degrees right) and use the LARS rule (Left ADD Right SUBTRACT) to get the correct magnetic heading and then standing over the pin shoot along the azimuth (North/South, whichever) towards the corner of your property and have your partner stand on the line (you have them move until they are exactly on the azimuth you are shooting)....mark the line with engineers tape.

This will get you pretty darn close to the property line in two directions from the known pin.  If you can pick up a 1:25,000 topo map of the area and have visible terrain features in the distance that you can see (2 or 3) from approximately where the corner of the property is you could use resection to determine the corner (or intersection too) by shooting an azimuth at each terrain feature and drawing a line along that azimuth on the feature using the 'back azimuth' (180 degrees from the azimuth to the feature is the back azimuth).  Do this 2 or 3 times and where the lines intersect is where you are -- this is called 'resection' and the way you remember is 're is me' ;).....

Of course you will only know where you are but if you know the coordinates of the corner of the property (map sifter at the county will do that for you) than you can plot it on the map, do a resection as close as you can get and plot that, then you see how far off you are and move that distance to the corner :)

Or you could rent the survey gear and find someone who used to work surveying to come out and help do it ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 01, 2016, 08:44:31 AM
Well, I am heading up this afternoon/evening once all my work and other appointments are done.  Deoending on when that happens I hope to get there when the lumberyard is opening in the am and get some supplies.  I might stay until Tuesday afternoon but certainly Monday. Hope to get the path for the road up to the site at least marked out.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 01, 2016, 10:56:07 AM
Well, I am heading up this afternoon/evening once all my work and other appointments are done.  Deoending on when that happens I hope to get there when the lumberyard is opening in the am and get some supplies.  I might stay until Tuesday afternoon but certainly Monday. Hope to get the path for the road up to the site at least marked out.

Sounds great!  Have fun and good luck!  Can't wait to see some pics!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 01, 2016, 11:05:31 AM
Sounds great!  Have fun and good luck!  Can't wait to see some pics!

Yeah, and they would be decent pics if i had remembered the decebt camera!  I will have to settle for phone came pics.

Things are moving much more slowly than i had originally planned due to events happening on the home front, but if it doesnt happen this year yet, it will definitely happen next year.  (The building of the 'main' cabin, that is)

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 02, 2016, 06:06:27 PM
Well finally!

It only took 8 years but I finally installed a window! Siding on that side as high as the loft floor.  Then i ran putta wood. Good thing the orange box is open tomorrow.

But i might just use up the other lumber i have and cone back in a week or two to finish that up. I might be able to draft some help by then.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 05, 2016, 04:31:19 AM
You heading back today?  I plan on heading up tomorrow so if you are sticking around I might be able to pop by.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 11, 2016, 10:35:16 AM
Well, I decided to head back on the 4th itself.  I needed to get back to the office on Tuesday, and couldn't quite swing it driving back really early on Tuesday - especially since I don't have a shower setup yet.

Last weekend I went and took a 5 hour "How to weld" class.  So, while they don't look pretty, I do know how to weld at this point. Now to just get a welder.  At that point I can put together a stand for the 235 gallon tank I have, and a matching set of rails in the bed of the truck so I can slide it in and out easily when it's got water in it.  That will give me a shower (well, that and an on demand water heater with some propane)...  Then I won't need to actually get home to take a shower before leaving.

I am heading back this weekend, and if all goes well, will break ground on the first of two cabins up there.  This one isn't the one I originally was planning for this year, although it is identical and from the same plans.  The biggest differences will be the height of the stem wall on the foundation and the location of the cabin.  It's only going to be a couple courses of block from the footer, max - just enough to get it off the ground.  And it's going to be in a place on the property that I can already get to without having to grade a road to it.

So OJH, if you read this, it will probably be mid to late August, but I'm looking at starting the floor by the end of Aug.... hope that mill is in shape! and you have some time! ;)  I'll let you know once it gets closer and i've selected the trees. I have a few that got scorched, but should be good for what I'm going to use them for.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 11, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Sounds great!  I'm booked for the next few weeks now but when you think you'll be getting close let me know so we can get you on the calendar.  I'm milling in Republic this weekend (about 100 logs) and hope to finish it by Sunday at the latest (should be done Saturday if I'm right on the amount of lumber coming out of those logs)...then I'm way up north of Reardon for a weekend and likely back milling in the OK (Tunk) the following weekend....busy busy busy!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 12, 2016, 02:45:12 PM
Sounds great!  I'm booked for the next few weeks now but when you think you'll be getting close let me know so we can get you on the calendar.  I'm milling in Republic this weekend (about 100 logs) and hope to finish it by Sunday at the latest (should be done Saturday if I'm right on the amount of lumber coming out of those logs)...then I'm way up north of Reardon for a weekend and likely back milling in the OK (Tunk) the following weekend....busy busy busy!

Sounds good. And busy is good too, right? Gotta make hay while the sun shines!

In other news the equipment supply place in okanogan apparently really doesnt want my business.  Won't deliver on Saturday, which means I have to be ther by close of business Friday... And wont pick up until Tuesday!  I cant afford that much time off.

I cam work with them on the Friday end, but id have t stay two extra days... And pay for them, too, I think!

Gotta talk with the boss about this.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 14, 2016, 07:50:42 AM
So sometime this afternoon I will be heading up to Omak.  Spend the night there and work remotely from the Starbucks, or McDonald's tomorrow.  That will give me lunch time (or whenever) to get to the hardware/lumber yard (orange box) and get a few things I need for working on the property.  Then up to the property well before dark, I should be able to get a few things accomplished by the time the light fades.

On the agenda is work on the siding on the shed, mark out where the cabin goes, and take the GPS and mark any possible routes up to the top for the primary cabin site (and mark that too with the GPS).  I am also going to do some brush clearing and such as I can at the lower cabin site.

Friday I am going to call a couple of excavators and see if they can give me an estimate of what it would take to dig the foundation(s) and/or cut the drive in to the top (primary cabin).  I know of one that specifically states they are available on weekends, so hopefully he can take a look and let me know what I'm looking at.  I would think that someone that knows what they are doing could do it all in an 8-12 hour day or less.  I think getting on-site would be the biggest issue, really.

So, hopefully it will be a very productive weekend!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 15, 2016, 07:09:06 PM
give me a call.  i'm milling in republic and at the cabin at night
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 19, 2016, 10:45:40 AM
Got back from the property Sunday and was wiped out.

But that's a good thing!  It means I got a lot of good stuff done.  Except for pictures.  Didn't get any of those taken

So, Hung the door, put in the "picture" window on the front wall, and put more "siding" up.  Next time I hope to get all the siding on except the gable ends ... and maybe put the sheathing on the gable ends.  It will all depend on how much time I have and how much energy I have, and if I have help.

But it's moving along again
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: nailit69 on July 20, 2016, 04:07:53 AM
Glad to hear you're back at your cabin and making progress again... can't wait to see some new pics  [cool]

I just got back from 17 days at my place... can't wait to get back out there.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 21, 2016, 04:43:45 PM
Well, I was thinking of heading up this weekend, but it's still unsure.

I did buy a new memory card for the "good" camera, so I should be able to take some pictures this time (whenever that will be) and get them posted.

If I don't go this weekend, it will be next weekend!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 29, 2016, 07:43:07 AM
So I am definitly going up this weekend.  Made an appointment with a guy to come look at putting in the drive to the main building site, and dig the hole for the foundation.

I figure it just might be less hassle to have someone else actually do the dirt work than for me to rent an excavator and do it myself.

Talking to the guy he tells me it's finally got hot here.  103 degrees in the river valley near his place.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: nailit69 on July 29, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Ya... i'm glad I got my place up before it got really hot.  It was 100 the first day and then never got above about 85 the rest of the time.  The wind blew pretty good every day and it also rained for an hour or so at least every other day for the 17 days we were there... it stayed pretty cool and kept the dust down so it was actually kind of nice.

I'm hoping to get back to my place in about 3 weeks to finish off the framing, roof it, and button it up for winter... might go back in October but... you never know.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 29, 2016, 05:49:59 PM
Guess it was over 100 down in the valley today but up in Republic it only got to 95 in the sun (thankfully I was milling in the shade by then)...was 81F at the cabin when I arrived and I'm loving that!

I'm here until Tuesday so if you decide you need a shower and a place to hide out feel free to come by and use the facilities ;)  I'd enjy the company but won't get home until about 6:30pm tomorrow....if you drink Wiskey or Scotch I'll provide ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 29, 2016, 06:15:49 PM
I just might take you up on it, if I get done what I hope to.

it's been a rough week, and I really wish the place was finished so that I could just crash there for a week or so.  But alas, it's not finished enough for that.

I'll let you know if I'm headed your way
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on July 29, 2016, 06:34:37 PM
I just might take you up on it, if I get done what I hope to.

it's been a rough week, and I really wish the place was finished so that I could just crash there for a week or so.  But alas, it's not finished enough for that.

I'll let you know if I'm headed your way

You are more than welcome and I even have a couch downstairs you can use (Futon), food, snacks and booze :)  What could be better?  Besides running water, a shower etc and good company! :D

I'll have my cell on me though don't check it often during the day when I'm milling but if you want to head my way just plan to arrive around 6:00 or so (a little earlier is ok too but I might not be back yet though I will definitely try to make it back before then)/
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 02, 2016, 06:20:24 AM
How'd the weekend go?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 07, 2016, 07:07:42 AM
Weekend went good! ... But we are now into another weekend and i am back at my place. Yesterday i over did it a bit and stressed my knee going up to tye cabin site and back down 3 times trying to find the best path for a road up.  I think i have found a really good one and tue marked where the cabin foundation hole should get dug.

Guy is coming Saturday (or sooner if I can talk him into it) to do the road and hole.

I am planning on being here all week, leaving next Sunday.  I might have a friend coming up Wed or Thurs to help with a few things.

I think things might begin to move along now.  Hoping to get the foundation finished before the snow flies.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 11, 2016, 01:45:23 PM
Well, after the dig, and the road building, I decided to come home.  Without many amenities up there, it gets kinda lonely sitting in the dark by myself.

The good news is ground has been broken.  The foundation hole is in and a "road" of sorts is up to the top.  I think the road might need some improvement, though.  Time will tell.

The plan is that in early September, I will go up, frame in the footer forms and pour the footings.  Might take 2 weekends, but this is the ultimate goal.  The stretch goal is to get the stemwalls built.  If that doesn't happen, no reason to be frustrated ... just another long weekend in the spring is all.

The other thing I need to do when taking a break occasionally, is drop some of the trees.  Especially the ones nearest the cabin site.

Well, that's the plan and it should take me until I can't get up there in October-ish.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 17, 2016, 11:47:50 AM
Debating heading up this weekend to start framing for the forms.  That way it will be ready for the big pour on the three day Labor Day weekend.  Get up there, place the rebar one day, and pour all day the next.  And chill on the third.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 22, 2016, 08:37:40 PM
l, didn't head up there ... but the plan now is to head up to the property over labor day weekend and take a day or two off work so I can pour the footer/foundation.

Then, a week or two after that, go back up to stack the stem wall and pour the concrete in that.  This part might have to take a couple weekend, since I don't think there will be enough spare hours in the worktime "bank" to afford more time off (ah the joys of IT contracting). But I can see that this is quite do-able.

That's the plan, and I hope I have some help for the big pour - it would go a bit more quickly if I did.  I'll have to see if I can find a victim ... er ... volunteer to come help. 170 - 80-# bags of quikrete ... and about 200 gallons of water.  Should be fun times!  d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 27, 2016, 08:20:29 PM
Events might be conspiring against me ... the truck would not shift into third gear tonight when I went out to get dinner.

The intarwebz says anywhere from $400-$2000 to fix.  Yeah, quite the spread, but based on the symptoms, the majority of places are leading to the lower end of the spectrum. I certainly hope so.  We will have to see on Monday.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 28, 2016, 05:26:15 AM
At the cabin? or back home?  Sorry to hear about the truck!  Maybe it's just a sensor?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 28, 2016, 04:28:32 PM
I'm at home.  Was hoping to head up on Thursday night, but we will have to see what happens tomorrow when I take the truck to the shop.

Yeah, could be a sensor, but online it sounds like a solenoid or valve or broken spring.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 31, 2016, 07:53:03 PM
Well, the news was not good today.  Not to the point where it's "replace it" (at least not yet)

But, it still will put a crimp in the building budget, and will probably put the trip off until next weekend.  Good thing I put in extra time this week!  Dang, was hoping to use that extra pay for a quad or something like that.

Ah well... maybe the boss will get a wild hair and want us to work extra next pay period, too!   ::)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 01, 2016, 08:36:34 AM
What was the problem?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 01, 2016, 09:11:36 AM
What was the problem?

Well ... There was a speed sensor that was bad.  And I was hoping that would cure it, but it didn't.  Which means they had to pull the transmission from the truck and open it up.  The service write thinks it might be the clutches for 3rd and 4th gear.  In all my reading, it sounded more like it could be the valve bodies for those gears or the solenoids for those gears.  (if it was valves or solenoids it would be less expensive than the clutches, I think - maybe not).  But I don't know for certain yet.

Then there was a starter issue that was separate - that required the replacement of the started (it was staying engaged and starting was a problem).  The sad part on that one is I had a starter for that truck in storage - but because I just moved all that stuff (and she packed it all up), I didn't know where it was.  So I am sure it's a gold plated one that they put in, rather than the less expensive one I have in the locker.  But at least I know when I am at the corner of No & Where that the truck will start!

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 02, 2016, 03:05:30 AM
I'd ask them to look at putting in a used tranny.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 02, 2016, 07:01:18 PM
well, the rebuild/repair that they have done on it is finished, but they can't get the truck back to me yet.  Why? because the guy that replaced the starter isn't the guy that fixed the tranny, and the guy that fixed the tranny, when he was about to put it in, noticed something that the guy that replaced the starter didn't do.  Well, that needed a part - and that won't be to the shop until mid morning on Tuesday.

So, the owner of the shop has volunteered to come pick me up tomorrow, get my small trailer so that I have it here locally.  Which is only one of the things I was going to do with it this weekend.  But. at least that will be done.  And they gave me a discount on the work, so that is something.  He has also told me to bring in the starter that I have (which is new in the box), and the next one they need a starter for they will use that one, and give me the money for it.  Even if it's $50, I at least am rid of a starter I can't use, and have $50 I wouldn't have had otherwise.

But, that means that I won't have the truck until Tuesday.  But it will probably run like new when I get it back. ... at least it BETTER run like new.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on September 03, 2016, 03:11:48 AM
Wow what a bummer... It's nice of the owner to step up and take some ownership of the mistake though.  I guess the silver lining is like you said, it'll be like a new truck. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 03, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
Yeah. I could have used that money for a quad and that would have let me get in and out of my property during the winter!

A friend of mine at home here says I should find a helicopter cargo airlift company to lift my RV into place LOL ... I think he's nuts.  I fear that would cost way too much for one thing.

Well, I will be likely heading up there next weekend, and figure to work remotely for a week to get "caught up" with my plans.

Hopefully nothing else will break that needs repair.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 04, 2016, 10:58:17 AM
Ok, I know some of the 3 folks I have that read this on a semi-regular basis are probably thinking, "Pictures! Or it didn't happen!" ... so, I'm doing one better.  Here's a vid (if I can figure out how to link it):

I did finally figure it out! but it autoplays.  Wish I could figure out how to not have it auto play.  Probably an option in the flash tag.  SOrry for the small size. the conversion from one video format to swf rally lost some fidelity... and I've changed it to just a link so it doesn't keep looping around annoyingly

http://thelodgeatroar.com/TheLodge/blogs/default/files/videos/PropertyProjectAmplifiedSound.swf (http://thelodgeatroar.com/TheLodge/blogs/default/files/videos/PropertyProjectAmplifiedSound.swf)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 04, 2016, 07:17:51 PM
Pulling in an RV to where I got to would be a cinch.

I have a Yamaha 350 Big Bear that I might be willing to part with...it's a 2wd but with chains.....never mind ;) you need 4wd
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 04, 2016, 08:38:44 PM
yeah, getting in as far as you did - even getting TO my place towing a trailer wouldn't be that tough.  Would want to go easy, though because of the rough road, but it is very do-able.  But getting to to the top of my "mountain" is where the tough part is.  it is might steep up that new road.  I've been thinking about whether I should call the guy back and try to fix a couple of things - specifically where it goes around the couple switchbacks that there are.  They are kind of tight, and it might be good to widen them a bit to get, even a short trailer around them.

And as for the quad... I've seen a few that wouldn't be back - even a couple 4wd ones, but the transmission repair put a big dent in the budget for that.  sigh.

Maybe around Christmas time.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on September 05, 2016, 02:33:31 AM
Or wait for the snow and get an old snowmobile for now, save your funds for the quad come spring.
In my parts a used snowmobile is probably 1/4 the cost of a used quad...  might be useless in the summer but can handle any snow and is powerful enough for any steep climbs.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 05, 2016, 04:59:42 AM
One of these days I'll have to come out and see what you've got going on there ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 05, 2016, 05:32:25 AM
Or wait for the snow and get an old snowmobile for now, save your funds for the quad come spring.
In my parts a used snowmobile is probably 1/4 the cost of a used quad...  might be useless in the summer but can handle any snow and is powerful enough for any steep climbs.

Funny you should mention this ... I did this analysis this morning as I was looking on Craigslist at ATV's, etc... I came to the conclusion that while I could pick up a decent snowmobile for a reasonable price (in some cases VERY reasonable), all it would get me short term is the ability to ride into the property and freeze my butt off "winter camping".  Yeah, the "shed" is there, but it really wouldn't be very warm.  And in the spring, I'd still have to buy a Quad!... so I think I'm just going to try to save up and maybe give myself one for a Christmas present, before the prices go back up for the spring  :)

Oh, I will probably debate this issue all the way through the winter - or until I purchase a quad or snowmobile, whichever comes first LOL!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 05, 2016, 05:34:50 AM
One of these days I'll have to come out and see what you've got going on there ;)

Yes, you will!  I am planning on being there next weekend and hopefully through the week after to form and pour the foundation.  Lot's o' lifting of 80# bags of quikcrete...  d*  I figure the form goes in over the weekend and then one full day during the week to mix and pour (once I have the water and quikcrete in place)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 11, 2016, 06:07:33 PM
Well, I've been going over my budget here, and deciding that I really have to be responsible and pay a few thing first.  Things that would have easily been within the budget had I not had the very expensive truck repair bill.

Which all means that I have decided that I need to put off the trip to the property until the budget has recovered a bit from that hit.  So, I won't be heading up to the property for another 2 weeks.  Sigh.  :(

But once I get there, I will be there until the foundation footers are poured and curing.  This will also allow me to to it more safely, and without as much stress on this old body of mine. 

All this means is that I will be heading up no later than the 26th of September. I hope and pray the weather holds until then
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 13, 2016, 05:51:36 AM
Well well well.

When life hands you lemons, make lemonade.  Life handed me a lemon yesterday, but out of it came some cash, so ... it looks like the trip to the ranch is back on earlier than the previous post.  Currently the plan is to head up Thursday evening, work remote on Friday and "git 'er done!" over the weekend and early next week.

Of course, this assumes that I can gather all the needed materials together and get them up the hill to the site, but if I have to rent a quad for that, so be it.  I don't think I can carry it all up the hill by myself (nearly 200, 80# bags of quikrete, a mess of rebar, and a bunch of lumber? nope - in the words of Bush, the Elder, "Not gonna do it.  Wouldn't be prudent"

But! This means a great start to the fall and winter.  I know I won't make the stretch goal (build the stem wall) unless a miracle happens.  However, what that will allow me to do over the winter is, scour the country side for intact, solid, CMUs that folks are giving away or selling for cheap and reduce the cost of building a basement to at least the cost of building a crawl space (about 1/2).  And I'd really like to have a basement under the place.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 25, 2016, 11:24:01 AM
Well, sadly, all trips to the ranch that are construction related are finished for the year.  I believe it will be freezing overnight from here on out and that means no pouring of concrete since it needs 48 to cure before a freeze happens.  I can't guarantee that anymore this fall, so the next time I head up to the ranch will probably be to see if I can't get myself some meet for the freezer I don't own  d* ... yet

But come spring!  Oh man.  I have been doing things here that are getting me jazzed to get up there and start pouring.  Looking for free or inexpensive concrete block for my stem wall, rebar for the poured parts... and finding them - the sad part is I have no place to store them at this time.  But I'm working on that, too.  So much yet to do before heading up to the property to get this project going in the spring.  And then the goal will be to be dried in by October 1st.  This is the year it happens!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: old_guy on September 26, 2016, 07:20:28 AM
  This is the year it happens!

That sentence sounds like you have passed a hurdle.  Life has been running interference against your plans for a while now, but it seems you aren't gonna' let it distract you from this dream any longer.  Cool.

Here's to 2017.


- John
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 26, 2016, 07:52:42 AM
Hmmm....I've done concrete in decent weather with overnight freezing but had to insulate it.  I think you can rent the insulation blankets but I agree that it's best done in warmer weather if you're not a pro (like me, I'm no pro!)....

Stay motivated :)  Do some hunting, get a tarp or felt over the roof of the shed so it stays dry this winter!  That would be my priority -- even if you plan to remove the old roof I'd protect it for the winter as it protects everything under it and hey, if you get stranded a dry solid walled 'shed' is better than a truck seat in my book!  Bring along a karo heater (need one?  I have one I don't use anymore) and a cot and you're set in inclement weather :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 26, 2016, 11:16:43 AM
That sentence sounds like you have passed a hurdle.  Life has been running interference against your plans for a while now, but it seems you aren't gonna' let it distract you from this dream any longer.  Cool.

Here's to 2017.


- John

Yeah, my motto for the next year is "Burn the Boats!"

Meaning there is no option of failure.  Succeed or die. Like Cortez. Like Alexander the Great.  (well, ok, not literally die, but you get the point)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 26, 2016, 08:08:31 PM
Hmmm....I've done concrete in decent weather with overnight freezing but had to insulate it.  I think you can rent the insulation blankets but I agree that it's best done in warmer weather if you're not a pro (like me, I'm no pro!)....

Stay motivated :)  Do some hunting, get a tarp or felt over the roof of the shed so it stays dry this winter!  That would be my priority -- even if you plan to remove the old roof I'd protect it for the winter as it protects everything under it and hey, if you get stranded a dry solid walled 'shed' is better than a truck seat in my book!  Bring along a karo heater (need one?  I have one I don't use anymore) and a cot and you're set in inclement weather :)

Drat! I didn't see this until just now  d*

Yeah, been thinking about a tarp.  And yes, I want to get up there hunting this year if I can decipher the crazy hunting regs.  I hate that I have to declare  Modern Firearm, Muzzle Loader, or Archery, and if I don't get it, I am SOL.  Where I grew up, you could buy a tag for Archery, and if you didn't fill it, buy another tag for firearm (didn't have Muzzle loading as a big deal back then - cause that WAS modern firearms  :D )

I have a cot, but don't have a kerosene heater - might be good to get one.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 27, 2016, 06:51:56 AM
it's not too hard to figger ;)  Pick a method, by a tag, note the dates and away you go ;)

I might hunt rifle season but only on the weekends probably (which will be one and a half or so) and maybe an evening or two but it is what it is.

If you can only make it out for one hunt, I'd do rifle.  If you can make it out for two then the bow gives good options but you're almost out of the 1st season if it isn't over already.

As for the heater, I would part with mine cheap but it's a long way from you.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 27, 2016, 11:57:50 AM
it's not too hard to figger ;)  Pick a method, by a tag, note the dates and away you go ;)

I might hunt rifle season but only on the weekends probably (which will be one and a half or so) and maybe an evening or two but it is what it is.

If you can only make it out for one hunt, I'd do rifle.  If you can make it out for two then the bow gives good options but you're almost out of the 1st season if it isn't over already.

As for the heater, I would part with mine cheap but it's a long way from you.

Yeah, I'm thinking Modern FA - especially since I haven't practiced at all with the bow this year (too much other junk going on).  I might go up and "hunt" the entire late season - but only because I can work remote from there and hunt in the afternoon.  Guess I should bone up on my Mule Vs Whitetail identification ability.  ???

As for the heater ... yeah, it might be cheaper for me just to get one locally since you're place is a long way from mine.

Speaking of your place - it is looking really good! 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on September 27, 2016, 06:59:45 PM
Don't think there is a late season for MF.  Just the one, mid October and about 9 days...I'll have to look it up.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on September 28, 2016, 06:01:50 AM
Don't think there is a late season for MF.  Just the one, mid October and about 9 days...I'll have to look it up.

Yeah, you're right.  15th - 25th.  I just have to watch that I get my species id'd right if presented with the opportunity.

There is a "Late" season, but it doesn't cover my GMU - not the one where I will be hunting.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on November 02, 2016, 02:56:04 AM
Wasn't too far from your place yesterday :)  Almost drove up to check on it but was in a hurry.  I was up Alpine/White Rock checking on a possible milling job for one of your neighbors ;)

I've given her this weekend to start and may be there for a week.  Roads are clear and no snow at all...would be easy getting into your place still.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on November 09, 2016, 07:28:43 AM
Yeah, it is usually not snowy until later in Nov.  Been thinking is attempting to head up and just check on the place, but I have to head for AK for work next week and there are things I need to get done here before I go.  Maybe ill push it and go when I get back.  It would be nice to know how late I can get in and out
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on November 09, 2016, 07:53:02 AM
I'll be milling up there the end of the month so if you make it out that week (26th through the 3rd or 4th of Dec) let me know
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on November 21, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
I am hoping to reduce costs with finding some free or nearly free CMUs... 8x8x16s.  It is doubtful I'll find enough to make much of a difference, but I have the source for one complete course of them, so far.  A couple more would be great.  But at $1.35 each, they need to be very close to free to make a difference.

I bit more thinking might prove that it isn't going to be any cheaper... Time for spreadsheet magic to happen!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 14, 2016, 07:46:30 AM
Time for a quick update. 

I am in the winter part of the project plan and all is going well.  I have all the footer costs covered, and about half the stem wall costs.  It is all on track to have my materials and milling costs covered as needed.  Now it is simply a matter of accumulating the other tools and such that I will need.

Things like a flatbed trailer, quad, board planer.  I am pretty sure I have most of the rest of what I need.

While I am eager to get up there and get started, it is fun to watch the balances grow.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on December 14, 2016, 05:48:14 PM
 [cool] c*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 30, 2016, 09:49:51 AM
Life is moving along.  Savings are increasing which is good, and while I am eager to get moving on to the actual building and such, I still have other things that need doing (like getting myself back into shape!)

In about an hour, another year of work will draw to a close and I will be awaiting the new year.  It is my hope that this time next year (2017) I will be able to welcome the new year in the cabin.

A lot of my friends and co-workers keep asking if I am going to move up there once it is finished.  Honestly, it is very tempting, but I haven't made that decision yet.  Since I can work from there, it would make some financial sense, and I think it would be a lot of fun, but there are a few logistic issues that I still have to work out - power being one of them.  Yes, solar is how it will go, but putting in solar isn't exactly cheap, so it may take me a bit before moving up there will happen.

Anyway, it's fun to think and dream of these things!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on December 30, 2016, 10:22:29 AM
Solar can be pretty reasonable but likely will run about $6-$7K to do it right.  I just picked up 6 305 watt panels for about $1200 :) but you add cables, a controller, combiner boxes etc etc and a back up genny and the price gets steeper and steeper....still, nice when it's done.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 31, 2016, 05:56:04 AM
The panels I'm not so concerned about.  Some diligent shopping and I can find some that will do the job for a decent price, and then expand from there.  It's the storage lockers (Batteries) that seem mighty spendy to me - at least for as much as I want to "store".  And from what I read, it's not a good idea to buy X of them, and then next year buy X more, and so on...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on January 01, 2017, 09:15:14 PM
Storage locker?  I have mine on my porch.  There are many options for them (my neighbor has a small room off his entrance with all of his stuff in it and the batteries enclosed in vented boxes.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 02, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
Not so much the space requirements for the batteries (Storage lockers),  but the cost of the batteries themselves!  And if you're not supposed to mix new batteries with older ones (put new wine in old wineskins?) then that means a large outlay at one time.  So it might take a bit of saving up for, or deciding that I can just run the genny more or do with less power somehow.

I am sure though, that eventually I will have enough solar to power everything I want running except in the most marginal of situations
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on January 03, 2017, 04:53:30 AM
Ahhh yes.  The cost of batteries is a huge part.  You can add, just not more than about 12 months apart.  So, if for example, you wanted to run a 48v system and could only afford one string of 6v GCB's (8 batteries) but wanted to run two of them you could get one string this year (less than $800) and a second less than a year later though sooner is better.

Speaking of GCB's I did a cost benefit analysis on them vs the L16's and decided to stick with GCB's for now since they are a lot cheaper and  may well last at least half as long (I think Mountain Don is still on a set after what?  8 years maybe?).  Though prices seem a bit cheaper on the L16's today vs when I did that.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on January 03, 2017, 06:09:57 AM
 We have had our GC-2's since 2009, 7 years 5 months ago.  To be fair they are not cycled as much as if we lived there full time. It does go to show that one can expect very good service in a part time situation. They have never been abused. The electrolyte has never fallen low enough to expose the plates. They were seldom discharged more than 20% and never below 50%. They seldom ever sat in any degree of discharge for more than 24 hours.

Ideally you would use batteries all from the same manufacturing batch. that gives you the best chance of having batteries with internal resistances that are as close as possible to each other. In practice that probably does not matter all that much as every point where cables connect introduce a point where resistance can occur. At the very least if you need to add batteries to an existing bank use the same brand and model.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 03, 2017, 05:11:43 PM
Well, that is something to think about.  Maybe put in a string at a time, and just rotate them out when they age out.

That would make it much more affordable
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: MountainDon on January 03, 2017, 05:37:34 PM
just rotate them out when they age out.

That would make it much more affordable

Maybe, maybe....  Keep in mind that when you add a battery or a string of batteries, to existing batteries you more or less end up with the newer batteries acting like the older ones after a little while. In the end you end up getting shorted on the life of the newer batteries. If you then begin to change strings after a few years you can easily end up with a set of batteries that fight each other instead of getting along together well. This is more and more of a factor when you have parallel strings.

I would try and save up for the size of bank you need. Then, if you missed your guess or miscalculated, and need more battery capacity buy the extra string before too much time passes by.  But also plan on replacing the entire bank at one time when that day arrives. If that means setting up a savings account for future batteries and making a monthly deposit, do it. When off grid you are the power company and as such must have plans in place for when something happens.

The good thing is that by the time a second set is needed we should have more choices in lithium batteries and hopefully also at better pricing than today. LFP (lithium ferrous phosphate) has some advantages over lead acid. FLA are still a cheaper initial cost and we know all their problem points.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on January 03, 2017, 07:55:48 PM
I've always thought of adding as a one shot deal -- within the first year.

In truth Telco's do it all the time and often after many many years.  The problem, as I understand it, is that the system will draw off the new strings before it draws off the old string (not exactly right since they draw together but sorta right in that the newer better string will be somewhat abused disproportionately).  I guess the massive banks we use must have some differences that allow more leeway there but I can't say.

In anycase, no more than 3 strings is recommended with 1 being best but not a requirement (I have two and they are doing just fine).  Also understand that they will need to be replaced some day.  It's a matter or when -- and the when depends on how kind you are to them for the most part.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 18, 2017, 09:00:46 AM
Well, the Ides of March have come and gone - and that means there's 2.5 months left before the snow will be out enough to get in up there ... altho it might be earlier this year because there aren't so many trees shading the road anymore  :(

I might try getting in up there in late May... even one week early would be a help!

I am starting to get the itch to get up there and pour that foundation.  I am going to need to make sure I have plenty of storage on the camera memory to take plenty of pictures.  Maybe I will see if I can't set it up to take a picture every 30 minutes or hour and set it up on a tripod.  That would be fun to see.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on March 19, 2017, 07:05:40 AM
Do you know any of your neighbors?  Might be able to check road conditions with them.

I just get good chains and 4 wheel in ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on March 19, 2017, 08:42:46 AM
Do you know any of your neighbors?  Might be able to check road conditions with them.

I just get good chains and 4 wheel in ;)

Nearest neighbor I had was 3/4 mile south - wasn't there 100% of the year, and his place burned down in the fire 2 summers ago.  Beyond that is the old guy at the end of the county maintained part and I hardly ever see him out anymore.  And then there are the folks that were on the news.

Mainly I'm concerned about the part beyond the lake that goes up into the hills.  It can be deeper than the axles on my 4 X 4 even in late April/early May... One of the projects I am going to need to pull off the back burner is a web cam of the road through my place that I can pull images from so I can watch the conditions of the road.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on March 19, 2017, 10:06:09 AM
Ahhh yes, if no one travels it then it can be a problem.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 15, 2017, 09:57:28 AM
So, I am attempting to get things lined up for the build project and I need to rent a quad/ATV/4 wheeler or something that is a bit more nimble than my F150 to haul bags of concrete, water barrels, mixer and genset up the hill to the building site.  I thought I had a solution last year, when the rental place down in the town near me showed an ATV/SxS on it's website for rent.

Sadly, today I called them and they stopped renting them because the insurance on them is too high.

Now I'm stuck trying to figure something out.  I may have to rent a tractor with a bucket from them to achieve the same thing ... which in itself wouldn't be terrible, it is just a change in plans that I had not expected.  And I think they may decide that they need to deliver it (which is an additional charge) rather than let me pick it up (which I could easily do with the SxS).

Well, now I need to find a solution to this issue.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: jsahara24 on May 15, 2017, 10:52:51 AM
So, I am attempting to get things lined up for the build project and I need to rent a quad/ATV/4 wheeler or something that is a bit more nimble than my F150 to haul bags of concrete, water barrels, mixer and genset up the hill to the building site.  I thought I had a solution last year, when the rental place down in the town near me showed an ATV/SxS on it's website for rent.

Sadly, today I called them and they stopped renting them because the insurance on them is too high.

Now I'm stuck trying to figure something out.  I may have to rent a tractor with a bucket from them to achieve the same thing ... which in itself wouldn't be terrible, it is just a change in plans that I had not expected.  And I think they may decide that they need to deliver it (which is an additional charge) rather than let me pick it up (which I could easily do with the SxS).

Well, now I need to find a solution to this issue.

Can you rent a jeep wrangler or similar for a day?   
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 15, 2017, 11:38:36 AM
I have a 4x4 F150, but it's isn't a nimble as an ATV for getting around the curves in the "driveway" up to the site, nor coming back down.

Of course, I haven't been there yet this year, and I may find that my memory is flawed and it may be just fine.  I remember going up wasn't too bad, it was coming down that I had a a few white knuckles   :o  Who knows, Maybe it is simply because it was the first time?

But now that I think about it, a wrangle is a lot shorter wheelbase than the truck, right?  That might be an answer.  I will have to check it out (both rental and road) when I'm there next.

Thanks for the idea!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on May 16, 2017, 06:12:54 AM
Cheaper to buy an old used quad and trailer.  I bought a Yamaha 350 Big Bear for $200 and a couch several years back and still use it.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 02, 2017, 09:58:17 AM
I'd love to find a deal on a quad around that price - that ran.  I have been trying to keep an eye out for them, but they are few and far between from what I can tell.

Got up there this past weekend (Memorial day) and felled a couple trees and then somehow damaged the chain so it would't run in the slot on the bar... got a new chain, just need to put it on.

Other than that I measured, measure, remeasured, and measured yet again for where the corners go on the foundation, and put steel stakes in at those places.  Now all I need to do is setup the forms, set the rebar, haul the concrete up there and mix and pour, mix and pour, mix and pour!  Debating heading up this weekend or not, but probably not.

In other news, I have plans afoot to hook up my trailer and move to the Cle Elum area.  Since the job allows me to work from anyplace there is internet, and I rarely need to go into the office, I figure moving that far over would cut the drive time to less than half and add that much time on site to accomplish that much more every time up there!  I figure it's a good 12-14 hour round trip from here, and would only be about 5 hours RT from Cle Elum ... leaving me with a full extra day on site.  Lots can get done in an extra 7-9 hours!

I think I am going to be one busy guy this summer ... but that's ok!  I'm thinking milling sometime after the 10th of July?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 18, 2017, 08:14:01 PM
Generally speaking things are not going according to plan this summer.I should have had the foundation poured by now and the basement wall stacked... I don't even have the foundation poured yet!

A bunch of stuff is catching up to me at work, and I think my project plan was a bit too ambitious.  Ah well.  I am implementing a plan to move closer to the property (since work allows me to telecommute) I figure that will save me 2.5 hours each way in drive time.... which is extra time to work on the project.

I am not uploading vids to youtube, but I have uploaded them to my own website... so here is a gratuitous video of me cutting down a tree... all fine and dandy until the camera falls to the ground.

ks7h.com/site/web/robot/videos/Treefelling.mp4

Too tired to spend time trying to figure out the linking, sorry



Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 22, 2017, 10:35:42 AM
Was simply watching Youtube just following where the suggestions took me, and came across these few links about new solar stuff coming down the pipe...

https://youtu.be/qMhdpWMDp04 (https://youtu.be/qMhdpWMDp04)

http://ubiquitous.energy/ (http://ubiquitous.energy/)

And

https://youtu.be/PLA7IKv7Ehg (https://youtu.be/PLA7IKv7Ehg)

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on June 22, 2017, 02:59:17 PM
Cool... I love the possibilities.  Just sucks the government is not investing more into this industry.  Obama was just in Montreal a couple weeks ago speaking about many things, including how the new jobs manufacturing these solar panels and such can replace the old jobs in oil that people are afraid of losing.  There's money to be made...  they need to wake up and see that.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on June 22, 2017, 05:21:02 PM
Ok, it's official.  I've put it on the work calendar for work and everything!

The week after the 4th of July from 7/1 to 7/9 I am planning on being at my property to pour the foundation, and hopefully get the stem wall raised.  It's going to be a logistical nightmare, since I don't have a quad, to get all the materials up to the site from the store, but I do plan on doing as much of it as I can.  Hopefully that will mean all of it.  Of course, the budget will figure into that as well, but even if I get 60% or more of it completed, it will be awesome.

So, if anyone wants to come help, you're welcome! HA!  d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 12, 2017, 09:30:01 AM
Well, even the best laid plans ... etc...

I did not get to the property as planned, but I did make a big change in my life.  I have moved closer to the property and am hoping to head up there sometime in the next 3 or 4 days for however long it takes to pour the footers.

Of course this means I will need to buy some high speed data for my phone so I can work from up there.

Anyway, that's the status for right now.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 12, 2017, 10:12:39 AM
I'm quite familiar with life's way of taking our plans and flushing them down the toilet.  Good luck with the pour!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 16, 2017, 03:56:14 PM
Well, this weekend, life took another pull at the silver handle on the toilet. ;)

But, not all was lost.  I wandered up the middle of the state, past the dry falls area and on up to the property, only to have the trailer I was towing not allow me up the hill to the building site... I had to back it down most of the way, then I screwed up a bit more, and had to go salvage the situation the next day.  Exhausted, I decided to come home and try again next weekend - and I've made the schedule a bit more realistic, I think.

I was shooting to finish the build to the "dried in" point this year, but I am going to say at this point that it will be next summer before it's dried in.  Ah well.  Forward progress is mainly what I am looking for these days. Forward progress.  The plan is to go back next weekend and simply see how far along I get.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on July 16, 2017, 05:32:03 PM
When life gives you lemons...  as they say.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 31, 2017, 06:55:28 AM
Well, in the last week, I've come up with a short term plan, and begun to execute.

First step: get an ATV...   Ok, that's done.   Now I need a trailer for it. Once that's done, I can get back to the property, and pour the footers.  The ATV will allow me to haul the 150+ 80# bags of mix up to the site, along with all the other materials.

I gotta get this project moving again.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on July 31, 2017, 04:33:29 PM
What ATV did you finally purchase?
I am also looking for one now.  My Jeep can only get me so far... I have the tractor but I need to get to it with 2 massive batteries, not fun by hand. 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on August 01, 2017, 10:35:28 AM
Well, in the last week, I've come up with a short term plan, and begun to execute.

First step: get an ATV...   Ok, that's done.   Now I need a trailer for it. Once that's done, I can get back to the property, and pour the footers.  The ATV will allow me to haul the 150+ 80# bags of mix up to the site, along with all the other materials.

I gotta get this project moving again.

We bought a nice trailer for ours from Ranch and Home for $150 several years back and continue to use it.  Says it can hold 1000lbs but that's pushing it!  Still a very useful addition to an atv
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 01, 2017, 08:49:13 PM
I got an older Kawasaki Mojave ... 250cc's but it's a pain to start... It needs some work, but I did get a descent deal on it, so I'm not complaining too much

Mainly I need it to get materials up the hill to the building site.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: jsahara24 on August 02, 2017, 05:38:20 AM
I got an older Kawasaki Mojave ... 250cc's but it's a pain to start... It needs some work, but I did get a descent deal on it, so I'm not complaining too much

Mainly I need it to get materials up the hill to the building site.

Check the valve lash, I had a similar Kawasaki quad that was hard starting and the valves were way out of adjustment. 

Good luck...
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on August 02, 2017, 09:42:32 AM
Cool...  I keep going between old and small to new and powerful.  I hate being on the fence.  Someone is selling a 1981 Polaris Trailboss 350cc 4x4 with a really nice aluminum trailer for $1000 ($1200 but I'm assuming negotiable).  Really thinking about it... but 1981... that's an old machine.  Trailer's got to be worth $600...  so technically its $400 on a try.   Do you find the actual size is big enough to work on?   
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on August 04, 2017, 10:21:53 AM
The one I got I think will be plenty big for the work I need it to do... if I had seen a deal like that (Polaris and trailer) I'd be all over that - Polaris is a good machine.  And a trailer to pull it is a bonus.  Just be sure it runs reasonably and you'll have a great deal

I'm not sure if it's the valves... it could be, but I'm going after the carb first to see if its' simply just gunked up.  Sometimes when I go out to it in the morning it starts on the second kick - then after running for a bit it quits, and I have to kick it a LOT to get it started again.

I think I may have a fuel issue  d*
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on November 05, 2017, 12:15:05 PM
Managed to get the quad dependable.  I have discovered that I can see the new drive and the foundation hole on google maps.  So much for privacy.  But that's ok, it also gives me a better idea of where things are on the property.

Since the new drive is so steep that I can only get the truck up but not a trailer with equipment or supplies, and I can see it on google, I can see where a new, less steep, drive might be put in.  My new neighbor since I've moved east of the mountains, has experience running heavy excavation equipment.  He has already volunteered to run some equipment for me in the spring.  To facilitate that I am going to try to get up there next weekend and scout out a new driveway.

Then it will be a winter of waiting.  I am hoping for an early spring.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on November 27, 2017, 02:36:26 PM
An update of sorts.  I have put together enough cash and prizes to allow me to build the entire place at this point (ok, after this pay period) .... of course, that would be with me milling all the lumber/timbers/logs I want/need with the chainsaw mill.  This is not really a good option.  But, I can do all the milling with a bandsaw mill (either hiring someone or purchasing my own, relatively inexpensive one) and complete this up to the point of having a roof on the place.... I just won't have insulation and steel on the roof at that point.

This is good... Why? Because work sucketh at the moment.  And I would like to find a different position, or start my own stream(s) of income.  Mind you I'm not complaining, but I really would like to improve the situation.  Besides I need to start looking forward to retirement as well (which by my calculations might be as close as 4 year away!  ???)

So, I have purchased nearly all the tools that I think I will need, and have budgeted for some miscellaneous things that are sure to come up.  And now, I am simply chomping at the bit to get there.  There are days I with I could find some heated concrete blankets just so I can run up there and start the concrete work... but I will try to be patient for the next ... 5 months or so
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on November 28, 2017, 05:13:25 AM
Run up there and mark trees and/or fell them, delimb, burn the slash and get the logs bucked and stacked.  Winter is the time to do all of that work so in the spring you will be ready to mill :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 02, 2017, 06:34:30 PM
Run up there and mark trees and/or fell them, delimb, burn the slash and get the logs bucked and stacked.  Winter is the time to do all of that work so in the spring you will be ready to mill :)

Yeah, trying to schedule some time up there for things like that.  Work has been absolutely nutty lately.  Going up there would certainly help me de-stress, but unfortunately we've been pulling some very long hours.  Maybe I should go up and simply work from the local starbucks ;)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 14, 2017, 05:38:39 PM
Well, it seems that I will be able to de-stress for a bit since I got notice that my contract will end at the end of this month.  Which leads me to think that I might go up to the ranch this weekend and see how things are up there.  If the snow isn't too deep and I can actually get back into the property, I can mark some trees, etc... and  maybe even figure out a new, let steep, way up to the building site.

I figure I should be back to work well before the snow is out in the spring and will be able to begin construction on time, hopefully.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on December 15, 2017, 05:13:23 AM
It's been cold but not much snow yet.  I bet you drive right up....it will dust today/tonight I think (maybe a trace) and it's supposed to for the next week but I don't see it as more than an inch or two....and with chains nothing under 10 inches even gives me pause.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 15, 2017, 05:48:42 AM
Cool. Thanks for the weather update. 

I'd move the trailer up there and stay there to save some cash, but I don't have a place for the sewage and I'd be making regular runs for water (and interviews, hopefully).  It would have been great if this had run another three to six months.  At that point a few months off would have simply given me time to get a good start on things.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 22, 2017, 01:02:55 PM
Well, got up to the road up to the property last weekend.  Actually, I got to the end of the county maintained part.  Started up along the part beyond that, but by the time I got to the lake (probably 1/2 - 3/4 mile), I was pretty darn sure that the rest of the road was NOT going to be passable.  So, turned around at the lake, forgot to get out and take the pictures I was going to, and headed back out.  Just to much snow and it felt really slippery for some reason.  Perhaps there was ice under the snow.

So, that's decided.  Not heading back until May, I think.

Meanwhile, the folks at where I'm working decided that the last working day of the year will also be my last day working for them, so now the search begins anew.  All I need is 3 or 4 more good, solid years of work and the discipline to save like there is no tomorrow.

Meanwhile I will be cutting back on expenditures.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on December 23, 2017, 06:31:38 PM
Well that's not a fun way to start the holidays...  kind of crappy of them to do that if you ask me.
Here's hoping that the new year also brings you some better fortune.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 24, 2017, 08:21:47 AM
Well that's not a fun way to start the holidays...  kind of crappy of them to do that if you ask me.
Here's hoping that the new year also brings you some better fortune.

Thanks Adam.  Yeah, it is a bit crappy, but I've already got a few possibilities in the hopper, so it looks good for the new year.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on December 26, 2017, 05:02:28 AM
Sorry to hear it!

Do you not have ice chains?  With those and 4 wheel drive you should be able to get anywhere the road goes as long as there isn't more then 14-15 inches of snow.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on December 26, 2017, 05:28:50 PM
Sorry to hear it!

Do you not have ice chains?  With those and 4 wheel drive you should be able to get anywhere the road goes as long as there isn't more then 14-15 inches of snow.

No, I need to get some chains for the truck.  Years ago I went up there in the early spring and nearly made it up to the property - until the snow was actually at or just above the axles.  And I got stuck.  Of course, I'm also older and less willing to have that adventure of walking out 6+ miles in the snow ;)  And that's just to the county part of the road  d*  If I had brought the quad I would have taken it in and at least checked out the property.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on December 27, 2017, 05:15:32 AM
I got some snow shoes for Christmas :)  Now I'm really set ;) but I have the tractor, chains on the truck and tractor and now the chains -- not to mention the woodstove at the cabin etc
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 11, 2018, 01:21:24 PM
I got some snow shoes for Christmas :)  Now I'm really set ;) but I have the tractor, chains on the truck and tractor and now the chains -- not to mention the woodstove at the cabin etc

Well, I might have snowshoes... I know I did have some a few years ago that I got for Christmas, but I was told to "come get your stuff" and when I did found it all packed up already.  On the one hand that made the job easier, but on the other hand, I have no idea what, if anything, I'm missing!

But even if I actually still have them, I am not sure I want to snowshoe nearly 7 miles in to the property, especially if I have to drag a sled of supplies behind me.  Going to save up for a snowmobile! :)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 18, 2018, 01:25:59 PM
Ok, I got to thinking about a modification to the build plan and to decide if it's worth it or not, I need more information.

I know how to read floor joist span tables, etc... and can find a lot of good info there, but... I need information on specific beam sizes and spans.  The tables I find cover laminated beams, configurations of 2 or 3 2xN "laminated" together, but none of the info I find covers how to determine the maximum span of a 6X8 beam made from either Doug Fir, Poderosa Pine, or any other species of wood.

So, my question is, does anyone know where I can find information about this.  Even if it's "math"  d* it would be appreciated - as long as the application description can be clearly understood.

The basis of my question is, what would be the dimensions of a solid beam to span 20' without support in the middle.  If this is impossible without a huge beam, what would it be with a support in the middle?

Would a 6x8 handle it? Or 6x10? or 8x10? or???

Thanks for anyone's input!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Peaceful Ambition on January 18, 2018, 05:47:06 PM
This is a great resource that Don showed me a while back:

http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/beamcalc.htm

and these are the values you put in (other than the dimensions)
Fb 1200
E 1.4
Fv 135
 
Dimensions are inches and load is lbs

It needs to pass all 3 tests, if it doesn't and you want to simulate a beam in the middle, just half the span on the calc.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on January 18, 2018, 10:21:49 PM
It all depends on the load.  You can get some estimates of the load based on what you want the beam to support.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on January 19, 2018, 04:19:47 AM
No, I need to get some chains for the truck.  Years ago I went up there in the early spring and nearly made it up to the property - until the snow was actually at or just above the axles.  And I got stuck.  Of course, I'm also older and less willing to have that adventure of walking out 6+ miles in the snow ;)  And that's just to the county part of the road  d*  If I had brought the quad I would have taken it in and at least checked out the property.

I thought your neighbor was full time?
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 19, 2018, 07:34:52 AM
I thought your neighbor was full time?

Sadly, no.  The folks he bought it from 10 years ago were nearly full timers.  She would stay during the winter and he would head back to Orcas Island to take care of his construction business (at least that's the story I heard)  The guy at the end of the county maintained part of the road is full time, but I think he's getting close to 90 these days...  There are a few on that part of the road that are.  There's one guy building a timber frame house lower down.

Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on January 19, 2018, 07:36:18 AM
This is a great resource that Don showed me a while back:

http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/beamcalc.htm

and these are the values you put in (other than the dimensions)
Fb 1200
E 1.4
Fv 135
 
Dimensions are inches and load is lbs

It needs to pass all 3 tests, if it doesn't and you want to simulate a beam in the middle, just half the span on the calc.

Sweet! It looks like exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on February 09, 2018, 07:45:29 AM
So the career is back in gear!  :D  I Interviewed earlier this week for a position near Seattle and will be starting for them a week from Monday.  It's not remote, but it does pay and I'll keep the trailer east of the mountains as a waystop.  I plan on still looking for that elusive remote position, though.  If I find one that is remote I plan on jumping on it.

So, It will take 3 or 4 weeks before things get back to full speed, but it's moving again, and I can't wait for the snow to go out at the property.  It's been unusually warm this year.  Yesterday it was 55 and last night it got down to 32 before starting back up for the day... and this is east of Snoqualmie.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: OlJarhead on February 09, 2018, 09:22:25 AM
Congrats!

Was still a good 8 to 10 inches of snow at my place where it is untouched but the roads are just ice rinks now ;)  Chain up or go for a ride!  Weeeee!
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: Adam Roby on February 09, 2018, 04:55:55 PM
We're getting clobbered by snow...  been non stop, and now another 8 inches coming this weekend.

Apparently a town in Japan got 54" of snow in one storm... can you imagine that? 
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on February 10, 2018, 08:44:48 PM
Wow - it was 60 here on Thursday!... of course, I'm only at about 1700 ft and 2 hours or so south of my property... which is at 4000 ft.

While I know it might mean a bit of a dry summer, I'm hoping for an early spring.  I'd love to start getting in up there in May, if I can, so I can get working on things.
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on May 28, 2018, 08:24:45 AM
Was up at the property this weekend!  It was a good trip and helped me renew some motivation.  It also revealed some of the scale of what I am trying to accomplish.

I've come to the conclusion that the footers, to be done well, are going to take as long as 4 weeks (working on the weekends).  My biggest challenge is going to be getting the 160-180, 8# bags of quikrete up the hill. that and a couple hundred gallons of water for mixing.  Thankfully I bought a quad last year.  Used.  It runs, but is a pain to get started.  But I think I've worked out the logistics of getting the concrete up there and all the rest.  I just need to register my trailer this week so I can use it to haul the quad. (and I need to buy a "wagon" that can hold bags while I drive the thing.

So, I am tempted to rush through this part, but I really don't want to because it is the most important part of the entire build and the foundation (pun intended) of the entire project.  And I need to bring sunblock next time.

I'd love to get it dried in by my birthday (in October), but I will be satisfied if I am starting to put the walls up by then.  I'm going to give myself until mid July to get the footer done, and then early August for the stem wall (making the crawl space/basement)  After that will be the floor system and then walls and roofing.

I am trying to research various flooring systems - I know the most common subfloor material is OSB or Ply... but I'd love to be able to use 1 or 2 x 6 T&G if I can.  From what I've actually seen (In a house I lived in) is that they should run at an angle to the joists and walls. If anyone has done anything like this, I'd appreciate it.

The plan is that next weekend I will head up and place the form boards (I'm using fastforms, so these are the support boards) and leveling the tops of them.  Maybe, time permitting, I will also try to prepare (not place) rebar.  But I've left an extra weekend in there just in case.  Then a weekend up to put the form fabric in, and pour.

It may sound like a lot to put the form fabric on and pour all in one weekend, so let me define "a weekend" for you  :D   Since my employer allows me to work remotely on Fridays, a weekend actually begins on Thursday when I leave the office. I will grab what I need from the locker (If I don't have it already), and head up on Thursday night.  Friday, I'll get up and work remotely and at the end of the day on Friday, I'll already be on site to do some of the work, so in this case I think I can get the form fabric installed, if there's time, I can place the rebar. If not, that will happen on Saturday morning. Then (hopefully) the materials will be on site by the afternoon (many trips to HD), so that Sunday I can pour the entire thing in 10-12 hours. Yeah,  LONG day.  d*

I plan on videoing most of it - God willing and the creek don't rise.

Then I'm taking a weekend off  ;D (gotta edit all that video down)
Title: Re: Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12
Post by: JavaMan on July 05, 2018, 06:58:38 AM
So I attempted to get the foundation started yesterday.

The mechanical advantage that I had to move materials up the hill failed to work properly.  I need something more dependable. I am hoping that someone here might have some ideas.  The drive up to the site is pretty steep and while I can get my truck up there, but if it's pulling a trailer - especially one with a few hundred pounds of concrete on it, it doesn't make it.

Any thoughts?