# CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

## Internet Finds for Designer/Builders => Referral Links => Topic started by: Medeek on March 12, 2013, 02:33:08 AM

Title: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 12, 2013, 02:33:08 AM
I was really hoping to get my hands on a a good truss software even if I had to shell out the big bucks.  I contacted Miitek and Alpine and neither of them are willing to sell or lease their software to an architect or engineer.  Something about trusses becoming a commodity.  Bottom line is there aren't a whole lot of decent truss calculators/designers out there.  If you want a truss design you have to get a truss manufacturer to quote you on a job and generate the engineered plans.

So I purchased a couple of books and starting reading up on trusses and how they are manufactured and designed.  I've still got a lot to learn but just today I started into programming a basic truss estimator:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl (http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ftrusscalc24.jpg&hash=b92033727fdcd97575e5b6a8e4a69683)

It doesn't do a whole lot yet, just produces a picture and some dimensions but I will probably have it calculate loads and axial forces in the truss members.  I apologize that Internet Explorer does not currently work with the images, for some reason there is no native SVG support in Microsoft browsers.  I would also like it to analyze the plates and calculate those as well.

If anyone has any thougts on what else this sort of thing should do let me know.  I'll probably being hacking away at it for the next few weeks in between other stuff so hopefully it can develop into something useful.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 12, 2013, 03:35:16 PM
Apparently there is an SVG plugin for IE8, so far it is working flawlessly:

The truss calculator is now showing the loads.  So far I have it only setup to analyze a fink type truss,  I will also add a howe,  king and queen type trusses next.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 12, 2013, 07:48:28 PM
I haven't looked at yours yet. The software the truss mfgr's are using I believe evolved from the PPSA program, Purdue Plane Structures Analyzer. I halfheartedly attempted to find it once. Old and very obsolete. The current commercial software is capable of far more than a statically determinate truss.

But then  ;D, my attempt with kingposts... major disclaimers.
http://timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/trusswbending.htm
Right click anywhere on that page and click "view source" for the script.

I like this one
http://www.jhu.edu/~virtlab/bridge/truss.htm

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 12, 2013, 08:29:44 PM
I also have tried to find the PPSA3 or PPSA4 and it does not seem to exist anywhere or at least it is not available or being actively developed.  I get the feeling that the truss industry (truss plate manufacturers) has a proprietary grasp on the whole process and open source projects are not highly encouraged.  Looking at the output from some of the commercial software (ie. Mitek) your right they are running some fairly sophisticated code that checks a number of items.  I'm sure the code is incredibly complex.

I really don't care to analyze every nail plate and size it.  Mainly all I am after is the overall shape of the truss and the general layout of its webs.  Fortunately, the Metal Plate Connected Wood Truss Handbook has helped me answer some of those questions.  For instance I knew that the panels were more or less equal in length but I didn't know that the scarf length is subtracted from the total span in the calculation of the panel lengths.

What I would like to know is if I decide to use a 6/12 truss with a 16" overhang for a 30' span, will 24" o/c spacing be fine and at what point do I need to use 2x6's for top and/or bottom chords.  Assume of course 47-50 psf total load on truss.  Then my next question as a designer is should I go with a Fink or Howe type truss?  What does one get me over the next?  Based on everything I've read it would seem the Howe truss with 4/4 panels has more internal webs and can therefore span more distance than a Fink truss.

My problem is I'm not seeing a lot of books, literature, websites etc... out there that can help answer these sorts of questions.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 14, 2013, 03:16:35 PM
Also added the King Post and Howe type truss.  I've been studying the ASD vs. LRFD methods of analysis, I think I will probably switch back to ASD since it seems the predominant method used currently even though LRFD is supposed to eventually supplant.
Title: Double Fink Truss
Post by: Medeek on March 18, 2013, 12:11:33 AM
Added the Double Fink truss today, this one was a beast.  Tomorrow my copy of the TPI 1-2007 should show up and then I can start plucking away at the sizing of member and plates.  Just as a note, I'm using an old 2005 version of "Working Model" to independently verify the internal forces within the truss members.  It's too bad that developers of that software did not keep that product going I was a huge fan.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fdoublefink40.jpg&hash=e9ccda57be88e93cdc22b1e432a508e0)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 30, 2013, 11:21:26 PM
Haven't had a whole lot of time to spend developing this app lately but did add a few cosmetic fixes.  Now when you select a truss type the appropriate image will be dislayed showing the general configuration of that type of truss.  Also added in a a few help images to better explain some of the terms like "overhang" and the various truss types.

I've done the calculations and equations for deflections so I just need to code those in.  I will be using the virtual work method (unit load method) to determine the max deflection at the mid point(s) of the bottom chord of the trusses.  My goal is to provide as much of the calculations as possible in an understandable format so that the layperson can see how the engineering is done.

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl (http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 30, 2013, 01:35:10 AM
To make the app more useful I've added an on the fly CAD generator which creates a .dwg and .lsp file of the truss geometry if requested.  Note, that this is only available for the "Fink" truss, I will add it to the other configurations in the next couple of weeks.  Below is a screenshot of what a typical file looks like loaded into AutoCAD (Draftsight is the free option).

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 31, 2013, 11:36:52 PM
Added some more dimensions and notes/specifications.  Current output is below:

Title: Deflection Calcs
Post by: Medeek on June 07, 2013, 12:29:00 AM
Still primarily working on the fink type truss, figured I would use this as the model truss and complete the entire analysis then once I have verified and checked it I will update all the other truss types with the same functionality.

Today I finally coded in the deflection calculations that I had worked out about a month ago.  The fink truss now gives some deflection numbers based upon pre-selected lumber specs.  Below is an example of the output:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ffink_deflections.jpg&hash=fb6de54a9e83b0de678384895f4a10ba)

I am really curious to see how my numbers stack up against Mitek or Alpine.  Note that the deflections given are for vertical loads and do not involve horizontal (ie. wind) loads.  My only thought is that my deflection numbers are not as conservative since I have not put in a certain amount of slip at each joint which in reality is probably what occurs and I am sure the commercial software out there has something to take this into account.
Title: Moment Calculations of the Top and Bottom Chords
Post by: Medeek on June 14, 2013, 08:54:58 PM
I've kind of hit a road block on the moment calculations.  The current spec TPI 1-2007 calls for using the matrix method in determining the moments.  However, I need to be able to run this app without doing a full blown analysis using RISA or some other FEA type product.  For now I've gone with the simplified method which is the method used in the TPI 1-1995 standard, at least I can produce a solution.  Typical result below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ffink_moments.jpg&hash=029829994db1cde54a58ece847e56f28)

If anyone has any ideas on how to do a simple matrix method analysis of a common fink truss please send me in the right direction.  My biggest unknown with this would be how to deal with the fixity of joints at panel points and heels.  I've just ordered a copy of Hibbeler's Structural Analysis to further research how best to deal with frames, trusses etc...

One thing I found really helpful was the samples provided in the previous editions of the TPI 1, its really quite disappointing to see no such example calculations in the current standard.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on June 15, 2013, 04:50:11 PM
You are well beyond me, interesting stuff and I hope you can figure out a simplified version. A simple, affordable or free, accurate method of evaluating frames would be quite useful and marketable...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 20, 2013, 10:24:37 PM
I've just completed the tension and compression analysis for the web members for the fink truss.  It took a little longer than expected but most of that was comparing notes between the TPI, NDS and "Design of Wood Structures" text.  The rest was trying to format the equations correctly with html and finally resorting to LATEX and a third party program.  Below is part of the calculations for a 4/12 fink truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ffink_compression.jpg&hash=91b244ce88c91cf18ffc88f9d6dd8b14)

My next hurdle is to try and program the top and bottom chord analysis however I am having a bit of trouble making sense out of the TPI 1-2007 when it comes to calculating the effective lengths for the chords, the previous method used in TPI 1-2002 seems a whole lot simpler than the current standard, it will probably take me a few days to mull it over.  Once that is done a heel analysis and then all of the metal plates analysis and then its done.  However, so far I have not introduced any short term loading due to wind or seismic so in the future I may attempt that as well.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on June 21, 2013, 01:27:46 AM
That looks like the newer interaction equation for combined bending and axial loading. I never got it to run right in a program, congrats!

Here was where I got to a few years ago. the '44 NDS equation, a stripped down version of the equation;
http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/44axbend.htm

Do you have a link to the TPI standards? I have the other texts. Not sure if it matters especially with a copmputer humming but I was taught to resolve the heeljoint first, if you can restrain those forces it is usually buildable.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 27, 2013, 10:45:46 PM
I have copies of the three most recent TPI standards (2007, 2002 and 1995).  The standard is always evolving as are the building codes as you know.
I was looking at your app, pretty cool that you were working on this stuff as well.  For understanding this stuff I recommend Design of Wood Structures by Breyer.  It really helped me understand the reasons behind the NDS equations and how they are being used in the TPI 1.

For the fink truss I've just completed the member analysis, give it a shot, its pretty cool what it can actually do now.  Now I'm going to take a bit of time off  and then come back and figure out the engineering of all the connector plates (chapter. 8 in the TPI) and also add the heel joint check.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Adam Roby on June 28, 2013, 04:27:15 PM
Nice tool... maybe you could add a scissor truss in there.  :)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 29, 2013, 02:07:57 PM
Nice tool... maybe you could add a scissor truss in there.  :)

The scissor truss and the attic truss are now both on my to-do list.

The thing about the scissor truss is I am little unsure right now how the geometry is defined.  I will need to look at some different samples at different spans and pitches to determine the correct algorithm for calculating the geometry, the rest after that is just math and lots of checks.

In fact, if anyone has some sample scissor truss drawings (Mitek, Alpine, Truswal etc...) in PDF format if you could send them to me that would help with my research.
Title: Bearing at Heel Check
Post by: Medeek on June 29, 2013, 02:12:21 PM
Just finished adding the bearing at heel check (fink truss only) which looks at the stress caused by the reaction and checks for compression perpendicular to the grain of the bottom chord as well as a new stability check added to TPI 1-2007.

Three types of scissor trusses I'm looking at adding are:  Howe Scissor (4/4), Mod Queen Scissor (6/4), Double Howe Scissor (6/6)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Alex W on September 17, 2013, 11:06:21 AM
I just want to say, first of all, awesome work on the calculator.  I recently purchased a property with an existing pole barn, and have been trying to determine if the trusses are sufficient to support a ceiling and insulation.  Your calculator has proven incredibly useful in that.  I probably could have made the calculations myself by hand, but that would have involved dusting off some skills I have not used since engineering school ???, plus with my background being in mechanical rather than civil, the application of the basics to wooden trusses is something I do not have experience with.

That said, while digging through the calculations on the Fink truss to compare your allowables to the MSR lumber already in my trusses, I came across what appears to be a discrepancy.  In the bottom cord design section, you appear to use Fb=2350, and reference table 4A.  However, table 4A shows Fb=1250 for spruce-pin-fir select structural.  Also, in the top cord section, you use Fb=1500, which while much closer still doesn't match up to table 4A.   Am I missing something?

As I said before, very impressive work, and very cool of you to make it free for all to use.  I look forward to seeing what other features you add in the future.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 17, 2013, 04:40:10 PM
I just want to say, first of all, awesome work on the calculator.  I recently purchased a property with an existing pole barn, and have been trying to determine if the trusses are sufficient to support a ceiling and insulation.  Your calculator has proven incredibly useful in that.  I probably could have made the calculations myself by hand, but that would have involved dusting off some skills I have not used since engineering school ???, plus with my background being in mechanical rather than civil, the application of the basics to wooden trusses is something I do not have experience with.

That said, while digging through the calculations on the Fink truss to compare your allowables to the MSR lumber already in my trusses, I came across what appears to be a discrepancy.  In the bottom cord design section, you appear to use Fb=2350, and reference table 4A.  However, table 4A shows Fb=1250 for spruce-pin-fir select structural.  Also, in the top cord section, you use Fb=1500, which while much closer still doesn't match up to table 4A.   Am I missing something?

As I said before, very impressive work, and very cool of you to make it free for all to use.  I look forward to seeing what other features you add in the future.

Thank you for using the application, I wasn't really sure who might find it useful, glad to see someone is finding practical uses for it.  Can you tell me exactly what span, pitch and loadings you used, as well as overhang and bearing width.

To debug and figure this out I need to replicate your settings.  I've checked through my Table 4A values and they appear to be correct but I might be missing something or there could be some logic or typo problem in the code.

Title: Matrix Analysis
Post by: Medeek on September 17, 2013, 05:01:12 PM
After about a good week of solid programming and scratching my head I've finally managed to add the requisite Matrix Analysis to my Truss Calculator.   Thank-you R.C. Hibbeler for your Structural Analysis text on the subject (ch. 14 - 16), if the subject had not clearly laid out in front of me I would never have figured out the numerous steps to arrive at the solutions.

Here is an example of the output of my matrix analyzer for the Fink truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ffink_matrix.jpg&hash=5a3c58c3531abebf41739ed5ff682f32)

I've even inserted the correct code to account for the additional loading/moments if there are overhangs.  I double checked my work by modeling up identical trusses (beams and trusses members) in both Strand7 and Solidworks (COSMOS/Simulator).  My result were within 1.5% or better, so I'm really happy about that.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ffink_fea_solidworks.jpg&hash=8244294323f44136534e132b4d7f57bf)

My only concern with my analysis is how correct my analog for the truss really is.  What I mean is that the bending moments are heavily influenced by the amount of rigidity of the joints.  Fixing the joints (where chords meet) or pinning them dramatically affects the bending moments and even the axial and shear loads to some extent.  My analog model is basically rigid at the heel and peak joints and pinned at all other web-to-chord or web-to-web joints.  This seems to approximate most closely the moments calculated using the simplified method (pre TPI-2002).

What I also found quite interesting (and expected) is if you use a stronger type of lumber on the top chord as compared to the bottom chord.  The top chord loads increase and the bottom chord loads decrease.  The matrix analysis is almost as good as FEA.  It's really quite cool to be able to calculate something like this just using a bunch of matrices.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Alex W on September 18, 2013, 06:57:47 AM
Thank you for using the application, I wasn't really sure who might find it useful, glad to see someone is finding practical uses for it.  Can you tell me exactly what span, pitch and loadings you used, as well as overhang and bearing width.

To debug and figure this out I need to replicate your settings.  I've checked through my Table 4A values and they appear to be correct but I might be missing something or there could be some logic or typo problem in the code.

My inputs are:
32' span
4/12 pitch
48" spacing
5.5" bearing
12" overhang

I have of course been using the Fink truss to get a feel for things, although my exact situation is actually a Modified Queen, as shown here http://www.7dtruss.com/truss_configurations.pdf

I have played with the loading a bit, my goal being to verify that I will be OK with 30/5/0/5.  At that loading, it puts out a 2x6 top cord, SP SS, and a 2x4 bottom cord, also in SP SS, and the allowables appear to be wrong for both.  If I use the default loading of 30/10/0/10 the to cord goes up to a 2x8 HF SS, with the correct allowable, the bottom cord stays 2x4 SP SS with the incorrect allowable.  It seems that the questionable number is just in the spruce/pine SS numbers.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 18, 2013, 09:12:10 AM
My inputs are:
32' span
4/12 pitch
48" spacing
5.5" bearing
12" overhang

I have of course been using the Fink truss to get a feel for things, although my exact situation is actually a Modified Queen, as shown here http://www.7dtruss.com/truss_configurations.pdf

I have played with the loading a bit, my goal being to verify that I will be OK with 30/5/0/5.  At that loading, it puts out a 2x6 top cord, SP SS, and a 2x4 bottom cord, also in SP SS, and the allowables appear to be wrong for both.  If I use the default loading of 30/10/0/10 the to cord goes up to a 2x8 HF SS, with the correct allowable, the bottom cord stays 2x4 SP SS with the incorrect allowable.  It seems that the questionable number is just in the spruce/pine SS numbers.

With your original loading of 30/5/0/5 you will notice both top and bottom chord are SP (Southern Pine) whereas the webs are SPF (Spruce, Pine, Fir), two completely different animals.  In truth the SP values are coming from table 4B and not 4A, all other lumber type use table 4A (DF, HF, SPF).  Also two updates from the AWC for the SP values were issued this year and last year, so your print copy may be out of date:

I've noticed that sometimes the acronym SYP is used instead of SP.  I think Southern Yellow Pine and Southern Pine are one in the same, correct me someone if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Alex W on September 18, 2013, 01:06:25 PM
Ahh, that makes sense.  I had mus-interpreted the acronym, I was assuming SP was Spruce/Pine, since that was the closest thing I could find in Table 4A.  Thank you very much for the input.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 20, 2013, 12:31:24 AM
Leaving the peak joint as a rigid connection without exploring the implications of a pinned or semi-rigid joint seem like a cop-out to me so I spent most of the day attempting to release the peak joint so that it could act as a pinned (zero moment transfer) joint.  For the web members I accomplished a similar task by altering the 6x6 stiffness (k') matrix so that it only included the axial terms, thereby eliminating any shear or moment forces, making these members axial only or simple pinned truss members.  However, for the top chord members it was not such an easy task.  I initially tried eliminating the row of the matrix that was responsible for the far end moments (pinned end), but it some became apparent that the interplay between moments and shear forces was more than I had originally thought.  I was about to accept defeat but then after spending a couple more hours digging about online I came upon a gem of a paper published in 2010 in the Electronic Journal of Structural Engineering by M. E. Kartal.  This paper outlined a couple of methods for obtaining the correct stiffness matrix for semi-rigid connections.   With this information I was then able to add in feature so that one can select whether the peak joint is rigid, semi-rigid or pinned.

I then tested it for accuracy against an identical model in Solidworks Simulator for both the pinned and rigid connection at the peak joint with near perfect results.  Unfortunately, Solidworks does not allow for adjusting the rigidity of connections between beams in its interface so I currently do not have the tools to test the accuracy of the semi-rigid model.  However it appears to present the correct trends when compared against the other two options.  If someone has a copy of ANSYS or some other reasonably high end FEA software I would be interested to see how well it will compare with third party verification.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Alex W on September 22, 2013, 06:04:10 PM
Interesting to look at the differences in the outputs depending on the pinned vs fixed peak joint.  The question is, which is "correct"?  It seems that the pinned joint reduces the stress in the top cord slightly, so treating it as a fixed joint should be the more conservative approach, correct?  The other members seem to be unaffected from what I can see.

Regarding the application of this analysis to my problem, I have a question.  As I mentioned previously, I have a pole barn that I am trying to check the trusses on.  It is a 32' span with 48" truss spacing.  The trusses are of a modified queen design, with 2x6 top cord and 2x4 bottom cord, both are MSR lumber rated at 1650fb / 1.5e.  Since the Fink is the only truss with full analysis in your program I have mostly been studying it, but obviously it doesn't match my case exactly.

The modified queen splits the top cord into 3 pieces per side and the bottom cord into 4 pieces (compared to the Fink which splits the top cord into 2/side and 3 across the bottom).  With that in mind, does it seem reasonable to consider the case of a 24' span Fink truss?  My reasoning is that a 24' Fink has (roughly) three 8' sections of bottom cord, and the length of the bottom cord between web connections should be a large factor in the required bending strength.  My modified queen with a 32' span has (roughly) four 8' sections of bottom cord, so at least in terms of bending stresses the results should be similar.  Obviously other stresses might be different due to the difference in total loading.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 22, 2013, 07:13:20 PM
the pinned vs. rigid has been bothering for few days now.  After reading more papers on the subject I'm of the opinion that semi rigid is the best way to go.  I'm on the road for a couple of days when I get back I will see about getting the full analysis done for the mod queen truss.  The overall span seems to control the axial loads more so than anything.  Compare fink against a double fink.  I'm trying to type on an iPad so this response is brief.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on September 23, 2013, 03:08:58 AM
I'm back in from a week on the road, going back to the SP/SYP question... I'm not sure. The only time I've really noticed SP on a gradestamp it designated Scots Pine, you'll find it in table 4F.

Southern Pine to me is SYP and contains the 4 stronest species of southern pine. The stamp Mixed Southern Pine can contain any of 7 species of southern pine, those 4 stronger species mixed with or any individual species and carries the strength design values of the weaker species.

To be honest after last year's downgrade of SYP it's all approaching the same values in many cases. If you're checking a pre 2012 truss the old values would be appropriate.

For my $.02 keep all the conditions available. When I field build a truss it's closer to pinned, a manufactured truss is closer to fixed. In wood I don't believe it is ever completely rigid. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Medeek on September 24, 2013, 07:55:34 PM I have all three options available for the fixity of the peak joint, the user can select which one best fits their situation. Starting to work on the modified queen truss, here is the schematic for the matrix analysis of it. The structure stiffness matrix will be a 30 x 30 matrix (900 values), its no wonder they didn't do this sort of thing prior to our modern computers, imagine trying to calculate this by hand. :) (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fcalculator%2Fimages%2FMODQUEEN_MATRIX.jpg&hash=265b312997097e8304cd5a59ead494a3) Compare this to the fink truss, which has a few less webs and hence the computations are less 21 x 21 matrix (441 values) (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fcalculator%2Fimages%2FFINK_MATRIX.jpg&hash=118d8d8acaa390f983138c00e9cacb4a) These schematics really say nothing about which members are pinned, semi-rigid or rigidly connected. The stiffness matrix (k) for each member is what determines that. (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdocsdrive.com%2Fimages%2Fansinet%2Fjas%2F2009%2Feq7-2k9-3906-3911.gif&hash=6882186fa52ee57d38f9739b88c7ae8c) In my analysis I am treating all of the webs as pinned jointed on both ends and only capable of transferring axial loads (classical truss members). The top and bottom chords at panel points are treated as rigid connections. The peak joint is treated either as rigid, pinnned or semi-rigid, this is user configurable. The heel joint is treated as rigid or semi-rigid. My reasoning and justification for these model settings is based on a number of papers I have compiled on the rigidity of joints of MPC wood trusses. I have saved each one and will compile a reference list at some point to accompany the truss designer documentation. These two papers especially the bottom one were quite helpful: http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/Paper_124.pdf (http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/Paper_124.pdf) http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/20103.pdf (http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/20103.pdf) Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Medeek on September 25, 2013, 08:42:39 AM The downgrades to southern yellow pine has got me wondering. What was the primary reason for that? Visiting Home Depot lately I've notice their stud piles are basically complete garbage, I wouldn't even considering framing my house/garage with any of the knotty / warped stuff they somehow call "stud" grade lumber. As the old growth timber has all but disappeared I guess we are now building with saplings. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Don_P on September 25, 2013, 11:05:52 AM There ya go. The cell wall of a sapling is made up of microfibrils that run somewhat diagonally to the axis of the tree, like about 30 degrees. In mature wood the MFA, microfibril angle runs 0-5 degrees to the axis. Juvenile wood has a bad internal "slope of grain" within its' cellular makeup, we actually measure slope of grain on the macro level, this is a level deeper, unseen by the naked eye. That's the biggest reason but there are more. In the 90's the American Lumber Standards Committee, ALSC, the quasi governmental authority who oversees the third party grading system, along with the Forest Products Labs conducted an "In-Grade" audit of the lumber available... they broke a bunch of boards, a whole bunch, of the commercially available species, sizes, and grades. They then refined the strength tables, the NDS supplement of design values for 2-4" thick lumber for commonly available commercial species was then based on the actual stock at hand. The other species and dimensions, say a red oak 2x6 or a heavy timber are still based on regressions from breaking a limited number of small clear samples and mathmatically degrading and applying factors of safety. For framing lumber it is based on massive real world testing to destruction. Look at pine or SPF and compare it to red oak, you know the oak is stronger than they are stating, there's less real testing so a higher safety factor. Part of the In Grade program also calls for periodic retesting of smaller sample groups to make sure the forest stock is not changing. About 2 years ago SYP failed that small sampling in some places with some dimensions. They increased the sampling size and saw a trend. They argued, cried, politicked and finally degraded the allowable strength values. A good stick of SYP is as good as it ever was and I suspect we will see more of that stock go to MSR to prove it and to increase the return, this will throw more junk into the lower visual grades. What's a stud? a #3 with #1 edges, exactly where the trash goes, well except to pallets. They are refusing to say they can visually sort the trash from the higher grades, mainly because the grading rules have no teeth regarding juvenile, reaction and compression wood. I can certainly pick them out of a pile, there was a lack of will and it is coming home to roost. Don't just blame the bad lumber barons though, we drove it through demand and through environmental policy. My wife and I have planted over a million SYP's through that period, many were "supertrees" selected for rapid growth. They were to be thinned for pulp and later the sawlogs would be selected out. When we decided to offshore paper the pulp market crashed, at about the same time we had a housing boom. Wood who's best and highest use should have been to wipe our bottoms became framing lumber... and now you know, the rest of the story. We need to develop silvicultural practices that reward a landowner for quality rather than simply for production, we aren't there yet, most foresters still just see the tree rather than knowing a thing about the wood within. PS, a little gem regarding undue praise of old growth timber, in some species, such as the oaks, a fast grown timber, within reason, is far stronger than a slow grown timber, my oaks make a stronger frame than my grandaddy's, his was more stable, I'm using his design strength values since I still get slow grown trees alongside fast grown ones. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Medeek on September 28, 2013, 10:44:17 PM Currently working on the plate calculations. Those will be rather lengthy but the upside is the summary is what most people will want or need, however I will show each lateral resistance, tension, shear, net section and moment check for each plated area of each joint. I'm doing one by hand first before I code it and I've already used 10 pages for the calculations and I still have to add the heel joint. I hope if nothing else people can use this app to at least better appreciate all of the checks that go into a simple truss. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Medeek on October 02, 2013, 08:32:38 PM I'm back in from a week on the road, going back to the SP/SYP question... I'm not sure. The only time I've really noticed SP on a gradestamp it designated Scots Pine, you'll find it in table 4F. Southern Pine to me is SYP and contains the 4 stronest species of southern pine. The stamp Mixed Southern Pine can contain any of 7 species of southern pine, those 4 stronger species mixed with or any individual species and carries the strength design values of the weaker species. I was just on Simpson Strong Tie's website looking something up and I noticed they use SP to designate Southern Pine in their documentation, however it seems like most of the truss softwares use SYP, now I'm confused. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: MountainDon on October 02, 2013, 09:00:13 PM same thing.... scroll down this page (http://www.southernpine.com/faqs.asp) just a little.... ""According to the handbook Utilization of the Southern Pines, published by the USDA Forest Service, Southern Pine is defined as those species whose major range is in the United States south of the Mason-Dixon line and east of the Great Plains. There are 10 species, all "hard" pines – diploxylon (hard needled) members of the genus Pinus (see chart). The four principal species – loblolly, shortleaf, longleaf and slash – make up 90% of the Southern Pine timber inventory and are referred to commercially as "Southern Pine" or "Southern Yellow Pine". "Mixed Southern Pine" includes the minor species of Virginia pine and Pond pine. "" .... more on the linked page.... Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Medeek on October 09, 2013, 10:13:01 PM 26 pages of truss plate calculations for one simple fink truss. (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ftruss_plate_calcs.jpg&hash=f6e88262110504567f62802d05ed0cf7) It's no wonder we use computers for this sort of thing. Now I just need to take it from this pseudo-code into Perl code with a bit of fancy logic and we've got her licked. :) Title: Load Cases Post by: Medeek on October 31, 2013, 10:50:26 AM Took a break from coding in all of the plates calculations last night and started working on the wind load cases. In order to do this I had to crack open my brand new copy of the ASCE 7-10. I always knew about the multiple load cases using the ASD method however as I dug deeper and studied a few truss drawings produced by Mitek and other truss plate manufacturers it became clear that even for a simple truss they are running a number of load cases. Here are the load cases I need to run for a simple 4/12 pitch fink truss with a 24' span and 12" overhang, at least this is what I've come up with so far, please add to this list if you are familiar with trusses and see that I am missing something: 1. Balanced Snow Load (S) + TCDL + BCDL 2. Unbalanced Snow Load (S2) + TCDL + BCDL 3. Eave Loading (2Pf) + TCDL + BCDL 4. TCLL (20psf) + TCDL + BCDL 5 BCLL (10psf) + TCDL + BCDL and the wind Load Cases which I'm still trying to figure out, ASCE 7-10 is a bit different in this dept. from ASCE 7-5. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Don_P on November 02, 2013, 06:47:44 PM It's been awhile since I've looked at a truss sheet, off the top one more I remember is 1/2 snow(unbalanced onto the lee side) + wind. hpinson, technically if it is not in the prescriptive code, engineering is required. Truss shops do have stock trusses, the 4/12 x 24' is an example of one you'll often see sitting premade in the yard. Heavy timber trusses are generally specced for the job. When Medeek gets done with these lightweight trusses I was hoping to encourage him into heavy timber :D Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: Medeek on November 05, 2013, 11:21:05 AM I had someone else telling me they thought I should do a calculator like this but for heavy timber trusses not too long ago. Is there a demand for this sort of thing, I don't see very much use of heavy timbers in most residential construction. I suppose once I've completed my work on the light weight MPC trusses I'll probably have enough experience to attack the heavy trusses. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: ben2go on November 10, 2013, 11:09:06 AM This math is way over ma head.I have to build trusses on site for a re-roof.It's gonna hurt ma head really bad to figure out them angles,but once I gettem,All I'll have ta do is cut wood and assemble.Luckily my span is on 12'6" and no snow load with light wind loads. Title: Snow Load Calculations Post by: Medeek on December 08, 2013, 10:53:26 PM Its almost been a month since I have a chance to look at this stuff. Work has made it tough to find the time to invest in this project. I've been meaning to add all of the load cases into the app and basically have it either run the standard set of load cases or the user can select a custom single load case. On the same note I thought it might be useful to create an app that just generated the snow loads (truss or rafter). I put it here: http://design.medeek.com/resources/snow.html I just started working on it tonight so it probably won't work correctly for a couple of days until I finish up the backend programming/calcs. What I am finding very strange though is with all of our technology and the taxes we pay you would think that somewhere the government has a website that you punch in a zip code or lat and long. and out pops the correct ground snow load for that location and elevation. The ASCE 7 map is wholefully inadequate and mostly useless for much of the western United States. Compare that to the USGS website which basically has the feature now, the old paper maps are a thing of the past. I actually had the chance to use their website/app at work since I was doing some structural engineering for a fixture being installed in California. If anyone knows of such a service or database/website please feel free to post or chime in with ideas. Title: Re: Truss Calculators Post by: MountainDon on December 09, 2013, 06:26:27 AM Nathan, http://www.designcriteriabyzip.com/$24.95 a month, free trial but you need to give them a credit card number to get the free trial. I never did
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2013, 10:48:32 PM
I looked at their site in some detail, but did not pay the monthly fee either.  It looks to me like they are not doing much else except for using the ASCE map to determine the snow loads.  I could be wrong though.  After talking with the Utah County, Utah building dept. official about snow loads it seems that most counties have very specific snow load maps that they don't share with the public unless your submitting for a permit, I'm sure this varies by county and state.

Still working on the snow load calculator, decided to add some nice graphics to it so it will take a bit longer to finish.

Here is a template image for example:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: rick91351 on December 12, 2013, 02:00:23 AM
Here in Elmore County, Idaho if you are building in the mountains they require more of course than in the valley but where the dividing line is I have never asked or looked.  It is public info however it is not like a surprise envelope or you have to go find the Wizard of Oz.   I can't imagine why they would be in other places.  It should be codified and public.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 12, 2013, 08:15:17 AM
Some of it is codified.  After some more research I found this information for Utah:

http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE15A/htm/15A03_010700.htm

However, some jurisdictions, like Provo City, are a complete black box.

It really comes down to the levels of government:

National
State
County
City

each level has potential for input and that is what makes it complicated.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 28, 2013, 06:03:14 PM

http://design.medeek.com/resources/snow/snow_calculator.pl

Give it a whirl and let me know what you think.
Post by: Medeek on December 29, 2013, 08:53:47 AM
Small bug in the html formatting fixed this morning.  Thank-you to the two people who spotted that for me.  Let me know if you spot anything else.  I think its working correctly now.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: John Raabe on December 29, 2013, 09:41:18 AM
Medeek:

Nifty project.

There is a submit button at the bottom of the page. What is a person sent to at that point and what is done with their information?

Looks like there is also a request for donations? We have a no advertising policy at this forum. Just want to check to see that this is not a promotion.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 29, 2013, 10:25:12 AM
I'll donate praise, well done and I hope you'll keep posting these calcs as you work on them. I don't see a problem with requesting donations and don't consider this advertising or a promotion, just a guy like us hoping for some offset on this sizeable effort. We refer people to outside sources of good information frequently, we get to be in on the development phase on this one  [cool]

It did white screen on me last night but I assumed it was on my end, it seems to be working fine today.
http://design.medeek.com/resources/snow.html
Under Is in lower font, structur(e)s

On both that and the calc solution page I can't follow the drift equations.
....Well wait a minute, on my slow connection the calc solution page has now become legible, on the resource page I'm still seeing this coding;
γ = 0.13pg + 14 (snow density)
$${h_d} = .43\sqrt[3]{{{l_u}}} \sqrt[4]{{{p_g} + 10}} - 1.5$$ (drift height)
$$l_d = \frac{8}{3} h_d \sqrt{S}$$ (width of drift surcharge)
$${p_d} = {h_d}\gamma /\sqrt S$$ (drift surcharge snow load)

To be honest having both formats might make it easier to work through if I try it longhand and seeing the coding might be just from my speed.

Even a slope factor adjustment for top chord Dead Load, I've usually just tried to remember to bump it up by a few lbs when the roof gets steep, nice job.
Post by: Medeek on December 29, 2013, 10:49:58 AM
I really did not intend to right this tool.  However, after looking at my truss calculator I realized that I was only giving one load case and eventually it should include all load cases to make it a more worthwhile project.

I will eventually incorporate the snow load calculations into the truss calculator now that I've got it more or less wrapped up.

My next  project will be a wind load calculator that will determine the wind loading (MWFRS and C&C) for a residential type building with the ultimate goal to incorporate these loads into the truss calculator as well.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 29, 2013, 11:01:28 AM
I'll donate praise, well done and I hope you'll keep posting these calcs as you work on them. I don't see a problem with requesting donations and don't consider this advertising or a promotion, just a guy like us hoping for some offset on this sizeable effort. We refer people to outside sources of good information frequently, we get to be in on the development phase on this one  [cool]

It did white screen on me last night but I assumed it was on my end, it seems to be working fine today.
http://design.medeek.com/resources/snow.html
Under Is in lower font, structur(e)s

On both that and the calc solution page I can't follow the drift equations.
....Well wait a minute, on my slow connection the calc solution page has now become legible, on the resource page I'm still seeing this coding;
γ = 0.13pg + 14 (snow density)
$${h_d} = .43\sqrt[3]{{{l_u}}} \sqrt[4]{{{p_g} + 10}} - 1.5$$ (drift height)
$$l_d = \frac{8}{3} h_d \sqrt{S}$$ (width of drift surcharge)
$${p_d} = {h_d}\gamma /\sqrt S$$ (drift surcharge snow load)

To be honest having both formats might make it easier to work through if I try it longhand and seeing the coding might be just from my speed.

Even a slope factor adjustment for top chord Dead Load, I've usually just tried to remember to bump it up by a few lbs when the roof gets steep, nice job.

Fixed the structur(e)s typo, thanks for spotting that.  Its hard to catch everything but eventually they work their way to the top.

I'm using MathJax for the equations since there is no native mathematic engine built into most browsers.  However, as you suggest, I've also notice with a slow connection the rendering of the Latex code into the correct symbols takes a while to load.  I guess its back to the drawing board on this one.  The other solution is to simply use static gif images for mathematical statements, however that prevents the actual displaying of numerical values within the statements, which is nice to have.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 29, 2013, 12:11:31 PM
No, don't go back to the drawing board, leave the MathJax app in place. I have an unusually slow connection, most don't and mine will get better one of these days. I appreciate having all the documentation that you've been including so I can see what the calc is doing.
Post by: Medeek on December 30, 2013, 11:35:33 PM
I had a couple engineering friends of mine request a metric version of the snow load calculator, so for the metrically challenged:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/snow/snow_calculator_si.pl

I have absolutely no feel for how much a kN/m2  is supposed to be, but I guess some people do.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 31, 2013, 04:16:55 AM
My mind still doesn't work in metric although I know once immersed in it that it is an easier system. funny my FIL was a Dutch mechanical engineer. we worked through problems a few times and he would convert to metric in his head, solve, and then convert back for us Americans.

One thing that might be helpful for "what if" modelling is a reset button on the solutions page or a link back to the beginning. I tend to go round and round for a few iterations while seeing what happens as I modify different variables.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 31, 2013, 12:56:06 PM
My mind still doesn't work in metric although I know once immersed in it that it is an easier system. funny my FIL was a Dutch mechanical engineer. we worked through problems a few times and he would convert to metric in his head, solve, and then convert back for us Americans.

One thing that might be helpful for "what if" modelling is a reset button on the solutions page or a link back to the beginning. I tend to go round and round for a few iterations while seeing what happens as I modify different variables.

I was raised in British Columbia so my first system of units was metric.  After 20+ years living in the States though I'm much more familiar with the US customary system.  Also my engineering education was mostly with the imperial system (BYU).  The problem with the metric system is that they don't have a comfortable unit of measure like the foot.  The metre is too large, the centimetre is too small and who ever uses decimetres?

I have an idea for the reset/edit button on the results page, but it will require a bit of coding to make it work.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on January 03, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Wind loading on a structure would make a great topic unto itself. Many DIY'ers give wind no thought at all, IMO.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: rick91351 on January 03, 2014, 11:28:58 AM
What is the standard?  Here it is 90 mph in the mountains.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ben2go on January 03, 2014, 11:29:43 AM
Wind loading on a structure would make a great topic unto itself. Many DIY'ers give wind no thought at all, IMO.

I was dealing with some heavy wind loading last night.50mph sustained gusting to 65mph.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 03, 2014, 12:44:39 PM
We had the same last night.
Most of the country has a 90mph design windspeed, the west coast off the coastline has the lowest at 85mph. As you approach the coasts it can go up to 150mph and there are several SWR's, Special Wind Regions, that are on a case study basis. I live in one, above 4,000' elevation here, in gorges and on ridges it usually has a 100 mph design windspeed. Imagine driving your house down the road at 90 mph, that is the design load. We've been close to that here I suspect, the 70mph guage blew apart in a regular nor'easter. To help visualize this maybe hold a clipboard out the window at 90 to get a feel for it, maybe not a clipboard you really want  ;D. Now imagine that scaled up to trying to hold a single sheet of plywood out there. Then think about how many sheets are on each side of the house.... then think about those few nails trying to keep the axles under that house flying down the road at 90 mph. I felt pretty good after one of our houses got hit by a hurricane at above design windspeed and survived with only a few shingles gone, I also wonder how much fatigue damage it sustained... could it do it again? Harder to say once you've gone into your safeties.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on January 03, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
Like Don_P said.... couldn't waste my keystrokes...   ;D

What is the standard?  Here it is 90 mph in the mountains.

90 mph covers most of the country. The west has many special wind zones; read higher usually. Gulf and east coasts are higher too.

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_3_sec001.htm?bu2=undefined
...scroll down 40% of the page to FIGURE R301.2(4)A BASIC WIND SPEEDS
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: rick91351 on January 03, 2014, 12:52:50 PM
It does surprise me that they only are requiring 90 up here because in the winter time minus this year they can get some violent winds.....
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 04, 2014, 12:03:54 AM
Wind load calculator is in the works but before I get too muddled in that I'm going to try to complete the interactive ground snow loads map:

The only problem I see with this is some states have snow load equations that override the ASCE values and they don't seem to coincide at all.  For example the State of Utah uses this document to establish ground snow loads:

So I'm not really sure what the value is in such a map published and maintained by the ASCE when it seems that you need to consult with the local building dept. to get the "actual" ground snow loads for your location/elevation.
Post by: Medeek on January 06, 2014, 07:54:29 AM
For Utah the ASCE map is more or less useless, so I created an interactive Ground Snow Loads map for the State of Utah:

As time allow I will also try to determine the snow load requirements for each state and list them here as well:

You will note that Montana has their own online calculator which allows a user to input the lat. and long. to arrive at a ground snow load, however their is a governing 30 psf min. roof snow load regardless of the ground snow load at that location.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 09, 2014, 03:33:02 AM
Added a front end to the Montana Snow Load Finder so that you don't need to first determine your latitude and longitude, simply click on the map:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 09, 2014, 02:41:18 PM
I've done some work analyzing and programming a truss calculator for MPC wood trusses however I've put that project on hold for now and I'm looking at trusses made with plywood gussets. I'm not finding a significant amount of information online regarding these types of trusses. Does anyone have any links or even books they could recommend?

I would like to create a truss calculator for this type of truss that is similar to the previous calculator I started working on, however this time I will incorporate the wind and snow load cases as well as fully engineer the gusset plates (possibly ring shank nails and glue) and their connectors.

I think there may be a few people who would find this sort of application useful.  It would be good to provide a fully engineered solution for those wanting to fabricate their own trusses without having to simply wing it, which I myself have been guilty of when I built a small shed a few years back.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 10, 2014, 02:25:43 AM
A quick look at what I have doesn't give much in the way of specifics. The AITC manual and I believe online tech notes do have do's and don'ts regarding eccentricity at connections. There is a midwest plan services book that I never purchased on design and construction of trusses similar to the ag plans online, might be worth getting. The help desk at APA, introducing yourself as an engineer and asking for resource material would probably be worthwhile, they have been helpful. The awc.org connections calc does list allowable design values for plywood/wood connections, for small simple trusses that would do it. As spans and loads increase and the plate sizes get large the danger of cross grain problems as the connections try to rotate is probably worth thinking about.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 10, 2014, 10:07:32 AM
This is kind of what I have in mind however I have not yet determined the proper engineering/research to size the plywood gusset plates, number of nails and correct spacing and edge distances as well as orientation of the grain of the plywood with respect to the joint.   I will be using the ANSI TPI 1-2007 and matrix analysis for a template as far as sizing the members, similar to what I've already done with the current truss calculator.   Where I am kind of in the dark is with the gusset engineering, however working with plywood gussets is not too dissimilar from using metal gusset plates in that the same checks (Laterial Resistance, Tension, Compression, Net Section etc...) probably still apply.  This is where this project gets interesting...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fwgc_calculator%2FWGC_TRUSS%2FIMAGES%2FFINKTRUSS_24_4-12.jpg&hash=fcd861a1f27a7308b2a2e50129e53ed1)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 19, 2014, 12:47:15 AM
I can't believe it has almost been a week and I'm still not onto the new truss  designer yet.  I figured I would finish up the current truss calculator and add in the plate engineering that I had wrapped up back in October.  I almost have all of the calcs in for the plates.  Note that only the fink truss currently has any engineering associated with it.  Still trying to wrap up the current calculator so that it is mostly complete.

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl

I also added in the design option so that one can specify the load duration factor.

After reviewing the NDS 2005 Sample Calculations I found some pertinent examples that will guide me in sizing the plywood gusset plates and the fasteners.  I am planning on using 10d nails so that they are in double shear and clinched thereby eliminating the concern with withdrawal and maximizing the usage of each nail.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 19, 2014, 08:58:31 PM
I should have done this a year ago but better late than never:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/changelog.html

The addition of the CSI and JSI limits makes it possible to further customized the engineering of the truss if a more conservative approach is required.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 20, 2014, 12:06:37 PM
Now that I think I have the fastener portion figured out I'm now looking at the failure modes of the plywood gusset plates themselves in tension and in shear.  ANSI TPI 1-2007 describes the critical dimension as the gross width of the plate measured parallel to the joint line (section 8.4.3 and 8.5.3).  What I've drawn below are these gross widths for tension and shear for each joint.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fwgc_calculator%2FWGC_TRUSS%2FIMAGES%2FWp2web.jpg&hash=f867d65965b37766de1f66a7bfc0125c)

I am trying to consider all failure modes.  In particular Joint (3) has possibly 3 failure modes but tensile case 2 and tensile case 3 may be redundant.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 26, 2014, 02:04:43 AM

Version 1.0.5 - 07.26.2014

- Tension perpendicular to grain check added for joint (6) and (7).
- Updated AutoCAD drawing generator so that it now draws the metal connector plates at the correct sizes.
- Limited heel joint plate selection algorithm so that the heel plate is single, symetric and does not exceed bottom chord depth in height.
Title: BC web joint of a Fink Truss
Post by: Medeek on July 27, 2014, 03:23:06 PM
I'm finishing up the plating algorithm of the truss designer and was a little stumped with the bottom chord web joint (see diagrams below).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fcalculator%2Fimages%2Ffink_joint7.jpg&hash=4b2c50418a7a52bf8165cdb0ec87ce1c)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fcalculator%2Fimages%2Ffink_joint7B.jpg&hash=d7ce06370ce15f228195c06a8fc4bd81)

The second image is for the same joint but with a 12/12 top chord pitch.  At this pitch the angles the two webs make with the horizontal is approximately 70 degrees.  All of the fink trusses that I have seen or can find photos of online show this connector plate with the slots running parallel to the horizontal as shown in the top diagram.  My question is does anyone have photos or truss output from a truss manufacturer showing the plate(s) in the orientation shown in the bottom diagram for a high pitch fink (W) truss.

It would seem to me that for high pitch fink trusses this would be a better way to plate the joint but I'm trying to stick with what is common practice.

Any actual photos of such a configuration would be immensely appreciated.

Another point I forgot to add is that with configuration (2) the requirements of TPI 1-2007 Section 7.5.3.3 are more easily met especially for heavily loaded trusses.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 29, 2014, 11:15:05 AM
If the forces on the truss are large and you are wanting to plate the truss with the slots parallel to the horizontal and the plate manufacturer only supplies plates where "h" is never greater than "l", then you end up with a geometry problem.  In addition you have large unsupported areas of the plate which are prone to shear buckling.

Perhaps the diagram below clarifies what I'm getting at.  Is Option C a possibility from a manufacturing standpoint and plate availability?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fcalculator%2Fimages%2FFINK_JOINT7C.jpg&hash=00277eece8fb8500be92f522c36a419e)

Option B and C also give larger contact areas onto the webs and hence better lateral resistance and net section (h').
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 30, 2014, 01:37:36 AM
Interesting, I don't recall seeing them any way other than "A". What is the difference in design values when the orientation changes?

I have had trusses with pretty large unsupported areas. In the field they are a real snagging hazard, I've hammered more than a few over to close the gap between the plates... probably not the brightest idea. I've wished they would fill those areas with deadwood. If the connection forces are getting high would it be better to step the web members up a size, not for member size requirements but for connection?

I can't imagine that they can't make a plate in either orientation. Maybe an email to MiTek or Alpine?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 14, 2015, 05:14:07 PM
A few minor updates to the truss designer:

Version 1.0.7 - 05.12.2015
Design values for select Eagle Plates and Simpson Strong-Tie Plates added from ESR-1082 and ESR-2762.
Added logo and link to evaluation service report for each plate manufacturer.
Client Information and Medeek Toolbox options added to further customize output.
Usage limit enforced so that regular users are encouraged to purchase a Medeek Toolbox Key.

Version 1.0.6 - 05.05.2015
Minor formatting issues resolved in (.dwg) output.

The last few months have been very chaotic with a new business so my time to devote to this project has been limited.  However, there has been quite a bit of interest and emails from the engineering community.
Post by: Medeek on July 31, 2015, 10:08:20 PM
Today I added in the MWFRS wind load cases into the truss designer.  These load cases are used to determine the max. horizontal reactions at the truss bearing points as well as the max. uplift, useful for sizing the hurricane ties between the trusses and the double top plate of the wall.  Typically I don't see many cases that need anything in excess of your standard Simpson H1 but there have been cases with larger trusses where a H10 or H8 was required.

The MWFRS wind loads are calculated using the Envelope Procedure (ASCE 7-10, Chapter 28) Part 1.  I could have used the more involved directional procedure (Chapter 27) but I noticed that most Mitek shop drawings show the Envelope Procedure so I followed suit.  Most of the code for this addition to the truss calculator was borrowed from my existing wind load calculator so the programming was actually minimal and only required some minor tweaks to incorporate it into the main program.

A couple days previous I also added an algorithm for calculating the self weight of the truss based on the NDS values and the volume of steel from the plates.  Interestingly the steel plates actually do account for about 5-6 lbs on your typical fink truss, more than I would have thought.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: jschuff32 on September 07, 2015, 07:31:45 AM
I'm going to be leading a team to build a church in Mexico next month, and I'm trying to finalize the plans.  The main issue I'm running into is the truss design.  The structure will be 18'w x 50'l with 10' walls made of 2x4 stick framing.  We would like to use a 5/12 scissor truss design to keep the ceiling from feeling too low, but I can't seem to find any calculator that does the calculations.  Our initial thought is to use 2"x6" instead of 2x4's for the trusses for increased strength.  Being set in Mexico, there is no snow load, but being near the coast there is a strong wind factor.

Is there any help you could offer, or any suggestions on where I might be able to find help?  Thanks

Jeremy
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on September 07, 2015, 08:42:19 AM
Hi Jeremy,
Just another thought, if you call one of your local truss plants and explain the situation I'd be willing to bet they would provide an unstamped design.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 07, 2015, 08:58:58 AM
What are you plans as far as the truss plates?  Wood gussets with nails and glue?  Nail size and glue type?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: jschuff32 on September 08, 2015, 10:07:43 PM
Yes, planning for 3/4" plywood gussets with 8d 2 3/8" nails and construction adhesive.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 09, 2015, 06:01:51 AM
Just out of curiosity I would take your design concept to the truss plant and see if they will quote you on plywood gusseted trusses or provide you any sort of shop drawings or engineering.  Let me know what their response is either way.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: jschuff32 on September 09, 2015, 06:49:35 AM
Thanks, I will contact one of the truss companies locally and report back.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 21, 2015, 05:00:29 AM
Still working on adding the point loads into the truss calculator, but at least I've got the matrix analysis portion working correctly now. If you enter in point loads for the fink truss it will correctly compute the moments in all of the chords. At one point this weekend I was stumped for nearly 36 hours. Turns out I was using the wrong equation to distribute the shear into a fixed end beam. I now have a lot more respect for the programmers of STAAD and RISA. Not entirely sure how they program the software to be completely open ended but I think I've kind of got a glimpse of that while programming this weekend.

The tough part was making it flexible enough to be useful (ie. point loads can be in any position along the top chord of truss). I'm assuming that most solar panel applications would have the loads on the top chord so that is where I have applied them. Interestingly it doesn't take much weight to cause an upsize in grade or size to the top chord of your typical fink truss.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 26, 2015, 02:54:35 AM
Under "Advanced Options" you can now specify the lumber species, grade and size for the top chord, bottom chord and webs, this should allow one to check any fink truss "as built".  I still have not configured a method to specify the plate sizes at each joint but that should not actually be that difficult.  For now the plate are auto sized until the JSI requirement is met.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 02, 2015, 11:25:51 AM
Seems like there is always more to do.  Updated the deflection section to reflect the new provisions of the ANSI TPI1-2014 with regards to the creep factor.  Deflections are now accurately taking into account point loads.  Also the repetitive stress increase can be manually switched or set to auto.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 02, 2015, 10:21:12 PM
Added SketchUp 3D (.rb) file output for the truss geometry. This file, when copied into the SketchUp plugins folder, will create a menu item within SketchUp allowing for unlimited creation of the given truss geometry within SketchUp.  I think this feature will be particularly interesting to those DIYers who wants to draw up their own model and plans using SketchUp.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP1.jpg&hash=e0aefdc2e29ac3be33e373040a1665a7)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 03, 2015, 12:03:35 PM
I've updated the code so that the plugin now allows for user input in order to specify number of trusses and spacing of the trusses.  For example 4 trusses @ 24" o/c would give you:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP2.jpg&hash=05c324801d37ed1f8b7d5058ac82df1b)

The actual truss geometry cannot be altered within SketchUp it is hard coded into the plugin when it is created by the calculator.  For different truss sizes and shapes it is simply a matter of creating and storing separate .rb files for them.  Dropping these files into the SketchUp folder sets up the menu item.  This method seems to be the easiest for interacting with the SketchUp API.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 04, 2015, 10:15:02 AM
After giving it some thought I've realized that from a design standpoint the average SketchUp user probably justs want a plugin that they can drop into SketchUp and configure the truss fully within that program.  I will have to give this some more consideration.

After programming the Ruby API for this small plugin I've realized that a lot more can be done here.  I'm still trying to determine what is the best method for insertion of the trusses (rather than at the origin), selecting a point with your mouse or keying in a coordinate.  Also changing the direction (E-W) vs. (N-S) of the trusses would be another helpful feature. Not that it is too difficult to rotate bodies but then it involves another step.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 04, 2015, 06:53:23 PM
Sorry not to be able to provide feedback, I haven't played with rubies yet so am still reading up. If they can be like a single component that I can then manipulate and place on my layouts in the model, move and copy, etc, it would work best for me... the end trusses are rarely on layout. I'm not sure if rubies work that way ???.

I did help a friend design a 30' fink about a week ago using this program  [cool]. It will be site built with plywood sideplates, we referenced back to the AWC connections calc... adding to the wish list  ;D
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 05, 2015, 01:34:26 AM
I was actually messing around with this again instead of working on my real work this morning, way too much fun.  Anyhow, you can select all of the trusses and then right click and group them.  This is like creating a block in AutoCAD then you just simply manipulate the block as a whole.  As a group I could then move, copy and rotate the whole pile of trusses.

I've spent about two weeks this last month working on point loads and I'm still not quite done.  Turns out that when you throw point loads on the top chord of the truss especially near the peak all sorts of unexpected load conditions pop up.  Bottom line, the truss internal forces go from a nice symmetric situation to one where every panel of the top and bottom chords are loaded differently.  What this means is that I have to implement the full analysis of each section of truss, just a bunch more checks, nothing new.

Once I have that out of my hair the next big thing is to include the C&C wind loads in the analysis and any other load cases that are currently missing.  At that point the calculator will then be providing a "fully" engineered analysis of the given truss.  Right now it is a partial analysis.

After that I would like to include plywood gusset plates as an option to replace metal plates.  I've had a number of people ask me about it and I think there is enough interest to make it worth the while.  I've spent a good deal of time talking to other engineers and researching this topic so I think I can run with it.

Then finally once all of the above is complete and I finally have a full solution for a common fink truss I will then begin the tedious task of applying the code to all of the other common truss types.  At some point I hope to include attic and scissor trusses as well.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 05, 2015, 04:36:15 PM
[cool]
Really... [cool]
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2F30ftTruss.jpg&hash=13bcf552b43d9b5d656b4f5e4a9144c0)

This is how I usually import something. It would help if it just flew in from the suburbs rather than hitting the origin.  I'll bring it in and set it in a pile just outside of the building, carpenters  ::).
I then made it a component, made a copy and moved and did the x times copy of that. If desired I can then make the whole assembly a component. That's just how I do it at my minimal level.

Hmm, is it possible to model a "typical" solar array load in the worst location as a default "solar ready" truss button?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 05, 2015, 08:04:09 PM
I'm not as up to speed on SketchUp as I should be anymore, I've had my head buried in AutoCAD for the last couple of years.  I'm not exactly sure what the difference is between a group or component but it looks like once you have the geometry you can manipulate it quite successfully, very nice.

Today I had someone from one of the SketchUp board ask me to implement the output for the king post truss so even though it does not do the engineering for this truss type you can now get both AutoCAD and SketchUp geometry for a King Post Truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP3.jpg&hash=f77b7768fabebb6a94dc5481d4283dc3)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2015, 06:58:15 PM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP4.jpg&hash=f778406c3be491039acb393d21851281)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 08, 2015, 06:35:48 AM
I'm trying to make this easier to use for the SketchUp user.  I've created a separate plugin that is used to generate the truss geometry (no engineering or loads).  Please feel free to beta test it here:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/sketchup/

Drop the .rbs file into your SketchUp plugins folder.  Suggestions or bug notifications are welcomed.  Currently only the fink truss type is available but I will add the others shortly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 08, 2015, 05:39:41 PM
What is the most typical raised heel height? Depending on the height the typical treatment is one of three options:

1.) Wedgeblock: Butt cut BC depth and top chord just touches bottom chord.
2.) Slider: Butt cut is larger than BC depth (3-1/2") and heel height is less than 12". Bottom chord and top chord do not touch.
3.) Vertical with Strut: heel height is 12" or greater.

I'm thinking about adding energy trusses into the Truss Plugin.  However, I don't have a lot of resources on this subject.  Anyone with shop drawings of trusses with energy heels who would be willing to share would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 09, 2015, 02:59:11 AM
For me typically #2 is what I've seen, I'll look through old records and see if I kept any shop drawings, if others have any please step in.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 10, 2015, 09:02:15 AM
I'm currently working on an algorithm for determining which option to show for a raised heel (wedge, slider or vert. web w/ strut).  Sliders and wedges typically seem to be either 2x4 or 2x6 members.  The length of the wedge or slider is still somewhat of a question.  Most sliders seem to average between 3'-5' in length. Wedges extend about 6 inches.

The question of length of these two elements is important because it will determine the scarf of the heel and this determines the panel lengths and hence the web placement.

An interesting feature of the additional strut for higher raised heels is whether they are beveled to their centerline or is this step is omitted.  When the angle between the strut and the chord becomes to shallow the bevel appears to be omitted, at least from a number of truss drawings I've reviewed.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 11, 2015, 10:58:48 PM
I have the raised/energy heel working now for a fink truss where a vertical member and strut is required (heel height greater than 12" approx.).  Still working on the wedge and slider cases, they are actually easier to calculate and program, but I figured I would tackle the difficult one first.

When the angle between the strut and top chord exceeds 10 degrees I then apply a scarf cut to the strut at its centerline (try a raised heel height that exceeds 24" and you will notice the difference).

Here is an example of a fink truss with a 18" raised heel.  Notice there is no scarf cut at the top of the strut where it meets the top chord.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP5.jpg&hash=4b4e6610df43c554b27dffe090a94e13)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 12, 2015, 06:07:45 PM
For the fink truss all raised heel types are now active:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP6.jpg&hash=0079b589f5e06fe4b30c6472d5063c6d)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP7.jpg&hash=c3b0174786caf01d79d62e38363b8335)

The algorithm is now smart enough to determine when to use a wedge, slider or vertical member with strut.  Depending on the heel height, and the pitch a wedge is either a 3.5" or 5.5" deep.  Likewise the slider is also auto selected to be either a 3.5" or 5.5" member.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 13, 2015, 03:25:23 AM
Wow!, You've been busy Thanks  :)
I haven't caught up yet but this looks awesome.

If I'm understanding correctly, on the strutted raised heel at the connection between the web member, top chord and raised heel strut... everyone is in compression? The reason for not scarfing below 10 degrees is the length of the joint requiring plate?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 13, 2015, 05:06:17 AM
I haven't looked computed the forces yet with the addition of the strut and also the moments at the heel of a raised heel with a vert. member.  This will significantly change the analysis as compared to a non-energy truss.  This sketchup plugin is only dealing with the geometry.

The reason not to scarf probably has to do with practicalities of trying to make a cut that is almost a rip cut down the centerline of the member.  At some point it just does't make sense.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 13, 2015, 06:35:50 AM
I've had a number of requests for monopitch or monoslope trusses.  Shown below is a sample of potential configurations of this type of truss.  Has anyone ever seen a (5/3) or (6/4) or a (3/1) monopitch truss?  The first number is the number of top panels and the second number is the number of bottom panels to clarify.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fmonopitchtrusses1024.jpg&hash=08fdf93a9726dbd8f822662790b395b6)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 15, 2015, 11:43:48 PM
The left and right overhangs can now be set independently, however the right overhang defaults to match the left overhang to help speed user input:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP8.jpg&hash=5086657cca3d78f543b890e8afce202c)

I've also created a new page for the plugin with some basic documentation:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/medeektrussplugin.html

Just an FYI, the energy heels are enabled fully for the fink truss but not for any other truss type and the TRIAL version is actually not limited in any way.  I will probably keep it that way until the plugin is significant enough to actually warrant charging for it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 17, 2015, 03:10:34 AM
I'm testing the attic truss option. At the moment I've only got one configuration which is probably about right for an attic truss that spans about 24-28 feet. You can see below that pushing it out to span 36 feet is a bit of a stretch:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP9.jpg&hash=27486e99bb9eb746f9f2e0d70fd9c4ce)

The piggyback option is enabled by enforcing a max. height in the inputs.

36' span, 18' attic width, 9' ceiling 12/12 pitch, 11-7/8" bottom chord.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 17, 2015, 09:50:47 AM
This is the same truss I used in my 28'x48' garage:

Now I need to work on the energy heel option for this truss.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 17, 2015, 12:29:45 PM
24' truss without a piggyback (Max. Height set to "NONE"). 2x6 TC, 2x10 BC, 2x4 overhangs.  12' attic width, 8'-1 3/4" attic height.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP11.jpg&hash=93abf24a3fd46b4266ed172bcd4a9ab4)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 18, 2015, 11:37:48 PM
22' truss, notice the change in the web configurations as compared to the 24' truss.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FTRUSS_SKETCHUP12.jpg&hash=95f5e64d89f023c1d95b8ac917a3815a)

There still may be a few kinks to work out in the algorithm that determines how many webs to place but overall I'm pretty pleased with what I have so far.

I've officially added the attic truss updates to the plugin so they are now live.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 19, 2015, 09:16:25 PM
Trusses are now created as components with each individual member of the truss a group. Arrays of trusses are multiple instances of the same component.

I think this plugin may actually have some potential now.

A couple more screenshots for fun:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su5_800.jpg&hash=b615d6dbd7a62a456be551f60888019f)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su6_800.jpg&hash=5608009fc82f5889735bdf04785b91a3)

I need a break for a few days on this but when I come back to it I'll knock out monopitch trusses next.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 20, 2015, 03:34:45 PM
Howe truss type is now active.

The latest plugin version is 1.0.4.  I would highly recommend downloading the latest version since I have also spent some time this morning cleaning up my code and removing global methods and variables so that I don't clash with other extensions or modules.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su7_800.jpg&hash=2bcf3c2592a1e6c8780987ffa788df72)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 20, 2015, 08:45:34 PM
Monopitch trusses are also now live:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su8_800.jpg&hash=14f3d9cbf1ac21cd872eff059f612f9b)

Currently the 2/2 and 3/3 configurations are available, more of this truss family will be added after I address the metric issue.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 21, 2015, 09:57:45 AM
I'm looking at adding in scissor trusses.  Below is a matrix of common scissor truss configurations.  Once they get much larger than a 6/6 I think they probably go to site assembled half trusses, I'm not entirely sure since I don't have any drawings or diagrams of anything larger than a 6/6.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2Fscissortrusses1024.jpg&hash=758a2640e454414c1ef347ec7c2696d4)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 21, 2015, 04:26:41 PM
I vaguely recall one with a girder truss ridge and half trusses but it was cut up with dormers onto that ridge as well.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 21, 2015, 08:45:58 PM
For the common truss types I've configured the plugin to detect the SketchUp template units and display a metric UI.  I've also replaced the x/12 system with degrees for the metric interface.  All member sizes and other dimensions are open for the metric interface as well.

Go ahead and give it a whirl, if it checks out then I will go ahead and update the attic and monopitch UI with the metric option.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 22, 2015, 06:38:44 AM
With the truss plugin I have been primarily focused on typical MPC wood trusses however the potential for other truss types does exist.  I'm wondering if some of the more exotic timber truss types can be codified in a similar way so that one can generate possible configurations and experiment with their design.

One interesting truss type that comes to mind is the Hammer Beam truss/frame as shown below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fhammerbeam2_1024.jpg&hash=3bcafdb2f8a59f2a372b3a99ba292d15)

Some other variants (an probably quite a few more):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fhammerbeam1_1024.jpg&hash=7f7c464f1974ecd77025a342b8d323dd)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 22, 2015, 11:56:49 AM
The math is the same for heavy timber just the design values and magnitudes change.
A hammer beam is a broken truss, or rather it is not a truss. When they do not fail it is due to heavy walls, buttresses, or good diaphragm in the roof... it certainly isn't the hammerbeam's fault if the roof doesn't splay.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 22, 2015, 12:36:05 PM
I actually like to call them timber frames since the current practice seems to be  to frame up the wall posts with the upper section as one unit.  They are the crown jewel of the timber framing industry as one web site puts it.  The problem with them is the considerable outward thrust because the truss is "broken".  Typically these are quite custom so I'm not really interested in putting them into my truss calculator (load calcs are probably best run in RISA 3D) but it might be interesting to have them in my plugin just for the geometry and the ability to play with the variables that affect the look and feel of the truss.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 22, 2015, 04:11:41 PM
I would call what is pictured in your drawings a "bent", it can be either timberframed or post and beam, depending on whether wood or steel connected, and there is plenty of room for generalizing in any of that. In bent frame construction a section slice is tipped up into place, these are connected by girts. Another method, box frame, would be more akin to platform framing. Posts, plates, and truss or common rafters on top of or integral with the plate.

Basically, If they can get a computer to draw it, they will build it.
The thrust has to be taken care of by some other means, that should be made clear somewhere in there. I went to one workshop where a topic was how to retrofit failing hammerbeams. He had plenty of pictures. They are a shining jewel but not on a cap I'd want to wear.

One way to build one is to incorporate a steel rod across the gap, you'll see that in most modern versions unless there is another bracing element like adjoining wings.

http://timberframeengineeringcouncil.org/library/#tech bulletions
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 22, 2015, 10:59:39 PM
http://timberframeengineeringcouncil.org/library/#tech bulletions

Unfortunately, I don't get a lot of timber frame engineering opportunities in this area so I probably haven't opened that publication in a while.  Looks like I've got some reading to do.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 22, 2015, 11:01:23 PM
I was thinking about adding the scissor truss family to my SketchUp plugin until I realized that the calculation of the scarf of the bottom chord was a bit more complicated than your typical common truss with a zero pitch bottom chord.  When I actually sat down and did the  math it became clear how much more complicated it actually was.  If anyone cares to check the math I would be very grateful.  I will probably run it into AutoCAD tomorrow and graphically check the geometry against the equation, they should give the same result.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fscissortruss1_1024.jpg&hash=bec47e0dced952abd85925d954034536)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 24, 2015, 11:39:23 AM
The equation was spot on, my faith in trigonometry is restored:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su9_800.jpg&hash=767d250a4cf4b5d7e46dc93fc7ededf3)

Version 1.0.5 - 10.24.2015
Added Scissor truss type, configurations: (2/2), (4/4).
Metric input enabled for scissor truss types.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 25, 2015, 10:39:54 PM
Version 1.0.6 - 10.25.2015
Added floor truss type, Modified Warren - System 42.
Metric input enabled for floor truss types.
Top and bottom bearing option enabled for left and/or right end of floor trusses.
Ribbon cut option (top) enabled for left and/or right end of floor trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su10_800.jpg&hash=aaf65bcdcdfa6b7a87498db31b759d56)

One central chase that can be position relative to the left end of the truss.  If the chase becomes closer than 1/4 the span to either end it will flag the user and re-position.  Also some logic to check the chase size to span ratio and absolute max. chase size (24").

System 42 or 32 floor trusses using the modified warren configuration which seems to be the most popular for this type of floor truss.  Top bearing configuration includes an additional slider for extra strength and a vert. Note the change in diagonal directions when comparing a top to bottom bearing floor truss, I was not aware of this until studying them in some detail.  Typical panel length is 28" but this can also be set by the user to any value.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 26, 2015, 02:38:18 AM
Makes sense, I had never noticed, the first web becomes a tension member... if so I'm guessing quite a connection.
Title: Floor Trusses
Post by: Medeek on October 26, 2015, 03:03:03 PM
Floor trusses 40' span, 60' bldg. length, 24" deep.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su11_800.jpg&hash=eebded106e29746250a9f6e6692885b6)

Notice these are top chord bearing trusses with the diagonal webs reversed from the bottom bearing trusses in the previous post, this is by design.

A few years back (when I was in college and working construction on the side) I remember framing up a custom home with these.  I don't think much over 40' is recommended but I could be wrong.  I'm curious as to what the longest span (clear span) anyone has seen with these type of floor trusses and what is the max. depth.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 26, 2015, 03:11:39 PM
Just out of sheer awe I have to post these two pictures I found at Select Trusses website:

My one worry with commercial buildings constructed using light frame construction is fire resistance.  This building wouldn't have a chance if a fire were to occur:

A quad fink truss (10/9) with a raised heel (slider):

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on October 26, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Just out of sheer awe I have to post these two pictures I found at Select Trusses website:
............  This building wouldn't have a chance if a fire were to occur:
.

That nice latticework would be like the handful of twigs used to start a campfire.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 26, 2015, 04:22:30 PM
That nice latticework would be like the handful of twigs used to start a campfire.

Exactly what I was thinking, well aerated and the wood member size (kindling) would be a perfect fuel.  If a building like this were to catch fire it would burn very quickly and aggressively.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 26, 2015, 05:29:24 PM
Various configurations of a vaulted or cathedral truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2Fvault_truss1_1024.jpg&hash=6135e5d60cb7ef5d2b8cf670ce06454c)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 27, 2015, 06:00:15 AM
Various configurations of dual pitch trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2Fdualpitch_trusses1_1024.jpg&hash=86302c348e19edbc1f1c9d247b3c54d2)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 27, 2015, 06:58:13 PM
Using the Medeek Truss Plugin and the housebuilder plugin I was able to create this simple model in about 3 minutes:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Ftesthouse1.jpg&hash=26727b45e81152f805f30b3abbf4ce27)

I would like to be able to create this type of model in the future:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FBARN5030-A6D-2_ROOF_FRAMING.jpg&hash=ae57e2b88882126685019aa5cd3325ff)

This model was created in Solidworks and probably took a day or two to assemble.  Notice the gambrel attic and the gable end trusses.  That ability I would like to add into the plugin.

This next model was also created in Solidworks and only shows the foundation and framing, the entire model represents about a month of work including the drawing set.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FGARAGE4828-A6D-3_FRAMING1.jpg&hash=b391e934933a4aebd11a04950ff24f3a)

I would like to see a plugin that is capable of generating this level of structural detail in a couple of hours instead of weeks.  Is this possible?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 27, 2015, 11:51:09 PM
I've got gable end trusses working for king post trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su12_800.jpg&hash=5c6fcc1880015ae7482b58bed4ed951f)

I haven't made this latest update live just yet as I need to update all of the other truss types to make sure it does not break anything.

The other thing I am changing is the second user prompt box that allows one to enter in the number of trusses.  I have now switched to a building length and the logic spaces the trusses based on the this length and the truss on center spacing.  Gable end trusses can be switch on or off.  Spacing of the gable studs is another user input.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 29, 2015, 04:13:36 AM
I would like to add in the gambrel attic type truss next but I need more examples of this truss type.  I've got a few configurations that I've used in my own designs but I am interested in any other designs that have been used recently by others.

In particular I am looking for large, clear spanning gambrel attic truss drawings or PDFs (shop drawings from a truss manufacturer).  I would be particularly interested in designs that integrate a floor truss into the bottom chord.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 01, 2015, 11:24:28 PM
I've decided to post a page with my thoughts on the current state of truss software or the lack thereof:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/study1/attictrussanalysis.html

This is my first draft so I may change it up some but the point really is my conclusion I draw at the end.  I really don't see why the Mitek's, Alpine etc... don't market a solution for engineers and architects.  Instead we rely on "technicians" to design our trusses and recently I have been very appalled by some of the designs I have seen lately.

Not to put down these folks, some of them are very good at what they do and those select individuals are definitely an asset to the construction community as a whole.

I don't have the resources or the man hours to program a solution that could possibly compete with their software.  However, it is my hope that by trying to pursue this route I can force their hand into offering a solution for engineers and in a sense commoditize their product.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 03, 2015, 09:28:35 PM
Version 1.0.7 is now live.  The big improvement is the ability to click with the mouse at three corners and place the truss set without any additional rotating or translating.

In literally seconds I can now put a floor and a roof on 4 walls using the truss plugin and the Homebuilder plugin:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2Ftesthouse2.jpg&hash=a97f2a10f60cd97de00cf9717c5cd7a7)

Of course the gable walls are not quite right but you get the idea.  I may have slightly misunderestimated (a word created by GW Bush) SketchUp and what one can do with it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 04, 2015, 03:25:51 AM
Wow! you are getting close to building with a few clicks. I'm assuming for a cut up roof you can fly in the truss groups and then hand draw the field framing.

I do agree with your comments in the previous post, the more we know, the more we know.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 04, 2015, 11:02:58 PM
Version 1.0.8 - 11.04.2015
- Added Weyerhauser TJI® I-joists: 110, 210, 230, 360, 560, 560D.
- Rim joist option enabled for TJI floor joists.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su13_800.jpg&hash=c918fe41c7c13bbbeb2d17b2b8fff1c5)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su14_800.jpg&hash=e732468c905f0ac192c57a6a1491c6cc)

Only a rectangular configuration is available currently.  If I can figure out how to code a polygon version of this that would be much more impressive (ie. pick the points that define the perimeter of the foundation and the plugin generates the complete floor layout).

This is straying a bit from trusses but I figured if I'm going to include floor trusses I might as well make floor joists available as well, just a small bit of code to get there.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: UK4X4 on November 05, 2015, 02:28:45 AM
Your doing some awsome work, really coming along
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 05, 2015, 10:09:48 PM
Your doing some awsome work, really coming along

The thing with programming this plugin is it is easy to make rapid progress.  I can get tangible results without slogging through mountains of calculations, not to say that I don't enjoy programming my other calculators but this one seems a lot easier and progress is notable.

Version 1.0.9 - 11.05.2015
- Added separate toolbar icons for floor trusses and joists.
- Created separate submenu items under the Medeek Truss Plugin Extension for roof and floor trusses.

The main menu was getting a bit cluttered and not so user friendly so I split it out into "Roof" and "Floor", hopefully this makes more sense.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 05, 2015, 11:52:51 PM
As I've been contemplating adding gambrel attic trusses to the truss plugin I've had to give some thought to what constitutes a good gambrel design.  I've looked into this before but my conclusion is that no matter the lower and upper pitch of the roof a good looking design seems to be always achievable if the lower and upper legs of the roof are more or less equal in the length.  To that end I've devised a simple spreadsheet calculator that will quickly throw out the numbers and display a graphic of the gambrel profile:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fgambrel%2FGAMBREL_ROOF_CALCULATOR.jpg&hash=8de2a4941a876d888f04feafa591b312)

I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule but it seems to give decent results.  Minor variations (ie. L1 not equal to L2) are generally okay but if one leg is significantly longer than the other the gambrel profile becomes distorted.

The math to come up with this equality and generate the coordinates of the overall roof height and the pitch break is rather interesting and for those mathematically inclined is given below.  Note that the equation ends up being a quadratic equation with the positive root extraneous:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fgambrel%2FGAMBREL_EQN1.jpg&hash=6d2f08f30a7b0c35955e7cfa84fbc011)

Another thing to consider with large spans (30ft. or greater) is the problem of truss height.  Every truss manufacturer I've ever gone to has truncated (piggybacked) my trusses at 13'-6".  Realistically this means that there is probably a limit to the span of a gambrel attic truss because of this height restriction and the geometry of this roof type.  As the height of  the pitch break approaches the 13'-6" height how do you actually fabricate the truss and make it work?

If anyone has an example of a gambrel attic truss with a pitch break higher than the typical cut off of 13'-6" I would really like to see it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on November 06, 2015, 06:08:10 AM
I'm not that mathematically inclined. But I really do appreciate the work you put into this. Probably a lot of satisfaction from it.  [cool]
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 06, 2015, 05:21:18 PM
I'm working on the advanced options for roof trusses and I'm looking at the fascia board.  I've come up with three different configurations for the fascia that I've seen in practice and in the architectural books that I have.

Which method of the three below do you prefer?  or is there another configuration that I have missed?

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 06, 2015, 08:00:54 PM
4) typically I do #3 but you only drew the subfascia on the tail. Beyond the sub is a flush fascia bridged over by the drip edge. typically a 2x6 sub and a 1x8 fascia.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 06, 2015, 08:11:37 PM
4) typically I do #3 but you only drew the subfascia on the tail. Beyond the sub is a flush fascia bridged over by the drip edge. typically a 2x6 sub and a 1x8 fascia.

I'm only going to draw the sub fascia and the sheathing.  Additional trim, flush fascia, drip edges, ridge vents, ridge caps or other features I will leave to the designer to draw.

In the advanced options I would like to included the following options:

1.) Sub Fascia
2.) Sheathing
3.) Rake/Barge Board
4.) Vent Blocking
5.) Outlookers (Structural vs. Non-structural, Horz. vs. Vert.)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: garyc on November 07, 2015, 06:25:06 AM
What you are doing is great but most of it is way over my head. But still enjoying reading your thread. Hear is a web link that I like using for gambrel  trusses.  http://www.blocklayer.com/
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 07, 2015, 07:09:21 AM
What you are doing is great but most of it is way over my head. But still enjoying reading your thread. Hear is a web link that I like using for gambrel  trusses.  http://www.blocklayer.com/

I have looked at this gambrel calculator and I understand the logic behind it however it is too limiting.  What I mean by that is that certain combinations of upper and lower pitches are going to be missed by this arrangement.  Also the length of the two legs of the roof quickly become unequal which distort the gambrel shape.

I think it is better to let the user decide the pitch of each leg independently and then calculate the roof shape based on equal or nearly equal leg lengths.  To further generalize the solution I should probably include a ratio factor R = L1/L2 which can be set for values other than 1, this would provide a gambrel solution that would cover every conceivable configuration.

I will have to rework my equations in order to solve for X2 with the ratio factor R incorporated.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: garyc on November 07, 2015, 03:34:52 PM
I some what understand what you are saying . But talking to older builders that built Barnes the old way the gambrel tresses is based on eight sided or octagon shape to maximum strength and equal pressure. I do under stand that wider the building the taller the truss will be . This is why a lot of truss company's don't build gambrel trusses. To wide to hall down the road. In my thread our build in Lincoln co. I was very pleads the way my barn trusses came out.   http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13947.0 . Like I Sade I really enjoy reading your thread because there is not munch info out there for the home builder that wants to build there own trusses that can handle the dead load and snow load . I do appreciate you tanking the time and sharing all the hard work you been doing.    [cool] [cool]
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 07, 2015, 04:56:02 PM
Your right the "true" gambrel roof is the octagon rotated 22.5 degrees and then cut in half.  I haven't compared actual numbers to concretely say that this shape is the best for max. strength but I do not doubt it either, I would need to analyze this further.  The lower and upper legs are equal and the upper (4.971:12) and lower (28.971:12) pitches are the inverse of each other.  This is probably the simplest gambrel configuration to layout because of its symmetry.  The span is exactly double that of the  height.

Very nice build by the way.  I really need to get on the site more often just to look through some of these projects.  I like the wings added to the gambrel structure reminds me of the barn I grew up with in Terrace B.C. (Dad's potato farm).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 07, 2015, 05:22:00 PM
Under advanced option 4, the vent blocking. Stuff you probably know. Code in the last few cycles has changed, or restated lateral bracing from elsewhere previously into chapter 8.
Quote
R802.8 Lateral support.
Roof framing members and ceiling joists having a depth-to-thickness ratio exceeding 5 to 1 based on nominal dimensions shall be provided with lateral support at points of bearing to prevent rotation. For roof rafters with ceiling joists attached per Table R602.3(1), the depth-to-thickness ratio for the total assembly shall be determined using the combined thickness of the rafter plus the attached ceiling joist.

Exception: Roof trusses shall be braced in accordance with Section R802.10.3.

R802.10.3 defers to manufacturers bracing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 07, 2015, 05:57:50 PM
What do they call it, synergy... from flyingvans thread;
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11802.200
Id bet the highest strength combinations will fall around shapes that a catenary arch can be roughly inscribed within. You can play with a hanging chain and I'd bet it will show you the most efficient shapes. Then flip the shape over, when you do this what was pulling your arms apart to create a shallower and shallower arch becomes thrust trying to push the feet of the arch apart. Hmm, with that thought in mind it just might be strongest to build a gambrel I find ugly, one of the tall sided short topped ones.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 07, 2015, 06:01:24 PM
Under advanced option 4, the vent blocking. Stuff you probably know. Code in the last few cycles has changed, or restated lateral bracing from elsewhere previously into chapter 8.
R802.10.3 defers to manufacturers bracing.

I've seen a few variations on blocking.  I think vertical blocks with angled tops is probably the most correct method.  Locally I usually see angled bird blocking.  Raised heels further complicates the matter.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 07, 2015, 08:22:05 PM
The raised heel trusses is mainly where I was thinking, that can get very tall and slender. I also like to block between rafters to keep windwash through the fiberglass down in a vented roof. Then it is a block with a gap between block top and sheathing for a vent channel. A detail on one plan had me cut a 1.5 x 5.5" notch in the top edge center of otherwise full height block. We did take his name in vain for a bit.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 07, 2015, 09:55:24 PM
The SBC has a fairly lengthy discussion on heel blocking at this paper:

http://support.sbcindustry.com/images/technotes/T-HeelBlocking08.pdf

Raised heel trusses with large heel heights are given a "truss block" treatment.

However, APA paper SR-103A (2014) goes into some detail about using only the wall sheathing extended over the top plate in low wind speed areas.

The USDA has done some testing here:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fpl_gtr214.pdf

The heel blocking/bracing at heels of raised/energy trusses becomes more of an issue when a shearwall or braced wall panel is located beneath that segment of the wall line.

An article in the SBC Magazine:

http://www.sbcmag.info/article/2015/truss-blocking-panels

The 2012 IRC:

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_6_par055.htm

A paper that sums it up quite nicely:

This was an interesting paper I have never seen before even though I subscribe to this publication:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 08, 2015, 07:14:59 AM
Version 1.1.0 - 11.08.2015
Sheathing option enabled under advanced roof options.
Rake Board option enabled under advanced roof options.
Fascia (Flush, Dropped, Beveled) option enabled under advanced roof options.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su15_800.jpg&hash=8044dba1723bea78065a1130fdcf46e8)

2x6 fascia and rake boards with gable end trusses.  I would show the sheathing but it covers up the trusses and then there is really nothing to look at.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 08, 2015, 04:17:39 PM
Just playing around with SketchUp a bit today and trying out the new sheathing, rakeboard and fascia capabilities in the Plugin.

The roof of this simple structure took all of 10 seconds to create, the rest about 20 minutes.  I didn't realize Simpson Strongtie hardware is available in the 3D warehouse, good to know.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FSKETCHUP_TEST1.jpg&hash=1a9c5753d69080d20a3341da455091f5)

I'm not going to say anything about lateral bracing of this structure, just modeling for fun.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 08, 2015, 04:19:01 PM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FSKETCHUP_TEST3.jpg&hash=8e89c420d8641d5d1e3ceb3257d30dc4)

One can go so far as to put all of the H1 ties in.  I could waste an entire day messing around in this software, way too much fun.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 08, 2015, 04:59:15 PM
Very cool drawings, I was in their catalog today looking at truss girder connectors for post frame girders and wondered if their hardware was in skp. To your point though, usually a sketch like that is an evening or two for me, you've kicked it up a couple of notches  [cool].
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 08, 2015, 06:10:10 PM
I should be working on my regular work but SketchUp has an addictive hold on me at the moment.  Trying to do a bit more complex roof line below.  Immediately some things that pop out are the inherent complexities that occur when roof lines meet.  The question is how to setup the plugin to automatically handle these situations, this will not be easy.  I was able to easily trim and delete unnecessary rake and fascia boards as required.  The trusses themselves need to be more dynamic so that one can adjust the overhang to zero as required.  It is easy to select a number of component instances and make them unique and then adjust as required.  In the second image I've copied an instance of the queen post truss to create a girder analog.

The other thing that needs some attention is the ability to easily create a valley set that frames over the larger roof line.  I've got some ideas on this one, its going to take some interesting math but its not impossible.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FSKETCHUP_TEST4.jpg&hash=c739cfbb157cf97b9c400f4a97fe7d46)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FSKETCHUP_TEST5.jpg&hash=52735a86877650e8ecac59f8f78f3d5b)

Also notice how I have used a howe, fink and queen post truss to demonstrate the use of all three truss types.

The other interesting point is that when you specify the fascia boards it is quickly apparent whether or not the heel heights match up and everything is correct.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 08, 2015, 06:30:58 PM
Cool, the old adage, draw the gutter line. This can somehow be used with stickframing to get birdsmouth height correct on a cut up roof to that same end.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 10, 2015, 02:32:47 AM
Version 1.1.0 - 11.10.2015
Gable end trusses enabled for the Fink truss type and all raised heel variants.

I may need to adjust the vertical studs slightly for the raised heel with slider. I haven't yet determined the best way to frame that situation out.

Lots of cleaning up needs to be done, tedious stuff but necessary.

Enable gable end option for all other truss types.
Enable raised heel option for all other truss types.
Verify that metric input is functioning correctly for all options and truss types.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 10, 2015, 08:22:29 AM
On a slightly different note I'm thinking about creating a plugin for wall framing and other misc. framing related items for residential construction:

- Walls
- Floors
- Stairs
- Dormers
- Foundations
- Posts and Beams
- Square and Round Footings

Any great ideas on names.  Its going to be something like Medeek Framer or Medeek Construction but I just don't want to make it too narrow in scope since I will probably wrap a number of things into it.

I like the housebuilder extension but I think a lot more can be done based on this initial concept.

Items I would like to see are more flexibility in defining openings, double trimmers, double king studs, double window sill plates.

I would also like to have the ability to create portal frames per the IRC standard.  As well as classify certain wall segments as shearwalls and automatically insert the holdown components (Simpson HDU series) into the wall.

For structural engineers I've got some ideas for a plugin called Medeek Structure which will do lateral load analysis for wind and seismic similar to the Woodworks Shearwall software that I currently use on my local engineering projects.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 11, 2015, 07:20:05 PM
Any roof can get very complicated with intersecting roof lines whether it is framed out with trusses or more traditional rafters and beams.

If I incorporate traditional framing I would like for the user to be able to indicate the perimeter of the ext. walls and for the logic to be smart enough to handle any possible configuration.  Consider the custom home with guest house below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FHIPROOFSTUDY1.jpg&hash=ca09db6ec560c6e4629221196ebb0c81)

Just to determine the proper placement of the ridge and valley lines requires some serious algorithms.  The technique I used to do it manually simply involves drawing isolines moving a fixed increment in from the ext. wall line.  These are really no different than contour lines on a topographic map.  The vertexes created by the intersection of these lines indicate the location of hip rafter, flying hip rafters and valley rafters.  When the isolines merge into one line then you have a ridge board.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: knopfarrow on November 11, 2015, 09:21:15 PM
Quote
Any great ideas on names.

How about "Medeek Build." Short. Simple. And catch all but indicative.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 12, 2015, 03:48:08 AM
What happens when the roofs have different pitches from each other? If it starts thinking at the building line will the gutter line remain level?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 12, 2015, 08:06:13 AM
What happens when the roofs have different pitches from each other? If it starts thinking at the building line will the gutter line remain level?

That does further complicate things.  An interesting implementation of a straight line skeleton algorithm is at this link:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 12, 2015, 06:29:49 PM
I'm not sure how to ask it, can the program "think" from a level gutter line and then work back from there. Hips and valleys drift out of corners at the building line, correctly, to maintain level and consistent overhang depth with dissimilar pitches. Then heel depth can help tune it in.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 14, 2015, 06:37:42 PM
Version 1.1.1 - 11.14.2015
- Gable end trusses enabled for all monopitch truss types.
- Added energy/raised heels for monopitch trusses (3 variants: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).

Currently there are only two versions of the monopitch truss available (2/2 and 3/3).

The truss set below shows a monopitch truss set with gable ends and a 36" raised heel.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su17_800.jpg&hash=369e349ab6dd1ebf2d4ae5327b20a8d5)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 15, 2015, 12:24:40 AM
I've also added advanced options for monopitch trusses (sheathing, rake and fascia).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su18_800.jpg&hash=7bf70b281ab138857f5c1798a73c29f7)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: garyc on November 15, 2015, 11:57:14 AM
This is a building that I built in 2012 using mono trusses with a 3' heal. These trusses are 64' long with a 1"-12"pitch. I built this building for my business.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1379.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah160%2Fgcockrum%2Fhome%2FDSC02020_zpskpkm2fl4.jpg&hash=8fb1c1d23bbcd9ceb8111a6d4ff3681c) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/gcockrum/media/home/DSC02020_zpskpkm2fl4.jpg.html)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1379.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah160%2Fgcockrum%2Fhome%2FDSC02028_zpstfkndzfl.jpg&hash=f92e5d537a54822ec916de3411a87628) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/gcockrum/media/home/DSC02028_zpstfkndzfl.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 15, 2015, 12:10:18 PM
That is a crazy span.  The webs in this truss are very interesting, a Warren type truss mixed with vertical webs (modified Warren).  I am curious as to how they arrived at this design.  You can tell these trusses will be under a signficant load, look at the splice plate and additional blocking on the bottom chord.  The scale of these trusses really comes to light with the construction worker in the photo (second photo). Thank-you for sharing this.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 16, 2015, 07:43:05 AM
Version 1.1.2 - 11.16.2015
Metric input enabled for monopitch truss types.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: azgreg on November 16, 2015, 09:58:41 AM
Great work. This should be a sticky.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 21, 2015, 12:46:40 AM
Given the slopes of the dual pitch truss and the span calculate the distance between the left bearing and the peak:

However, you might notice that we are assuming the buttcut and top chord depth is equivalent for both sides.  If the slopes are different then this will mean that the heel heights will be different.  Should the heel heights be the same?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 21, 2015, 03:53:50 AM
The overhangs should be at the same height, this will determine the HAP
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 21, 2015, 11:31:13 AM
The overhangs should be at the same height, this will determine the HAP

You're right the fascia is the key.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 21, 2015, 09:57:05 PM
Outlookers enabled under advanced roof options for Common, Scissor and Attic truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su19_800.jpg&hash=3c3da6495d7dbb12be66d6436f10827b)

Not really sure what is the best treatment of the outlookers at the peak of the roof and consequently what is best way to space them.  Measure them from the peak or the eave/fascia?

One thing worth noting here is that structural outlookers are also enabled but I have not yet coded in the dropped top chord gable end trusses that would match structural outlookers, something for another day. Due to the option of vertically or horizontally oriented outlookers the configuration of a dropped top chord gable end truss can take two configurations. For attic trusses this gets even more complicated at the gable end, hence I haven't even attempted the gable end truss option for attic truss types yet.

The hot items on the todo list right now are:

- Tail Bearing Trusses
- Gambrel Attic Trusses
- Dual Pitch Trusses
- Rafter Roof (Gable and Hip)
- Valley Truss Set
- Hip Truss Sets

If you feel like something should take precedence over these items please advise.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 22, 2015, 01:04:46 AM
Version 1.1.3 - 11.21.2015
Outlookers enabled under advanced roof options for Common, Scissor and Attic truss types.
Gable end trusses enabled for (2/2, 4/4) scissor truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su20_800.jpg&hash=64c45517791d2ea37bf85667048f3cee)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 22, 2015, 04:58:56 AM
I usually measure lookouts from the bottom. I'll decide where the bottom of the sheathing will land and then run the lookouts on 2' centers from there up, thus blocking the edges.
In a visual radio button option type menu you would click on overhang type then it would figure lookout layout from that. On structural lookouts I'll typically block over the top chord if they are standing.  I don't frame what you drew ever, the quick and dirty option is to notch the undropped gable truss 1.5" deep and lay lookouts flatways from the 1'st common truss, over the notched gable and out to the fly rafter. However, doing the math, the hog trough you drew never works structurally, flatways lookouts only work on shorter gable overhangs or lighter loads. They really need to rotate upright pretty quickly... this could be calculated in the background and the drawing would rotate them up right when the load/span requires the change. Flatways is nice because layout for sheathing breaks isn't as critical, plenty of nailing on the flat face of a 2x. I'll buy wiggle room by using flatways 2x6's sometimes.

As a personal rant, if I'm cutting, I hand up #1 or SS lookout stock, it is an opportunity to cut out defects. Someone is climbing that ladder during construction, leaning over the cantilever and nailing on the fly. The wind and snow is working it for the rest of time.   So often a helper will mindlessly chop lengths without looking at the wood. I was handed a fistful of wicked knots yesterday... real world strength, zero. Look at what you're cutting folks.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 22, 2015, 11:06:42 AM
The plugin allows the lookouts to be either flat or vertical and structural or non-structural.  According to the code if you are overhanging 12" or more then what I have shown is not going to work.  I'm going to leave it up to the user to specify the configuration.  If I restrict it too much then a number of designers/architects who are already using this plugin are going to gripe about it, even though I completely agree with you.  Locally here along the beach I never specify anything other than structural lookouts especially with our wind loads.

Measuring from the bottom makes sense.  Every roof I've ever helped sheet has always been started at the bottom now that I think about it.  So depending on the fascia type (dropped, beveled, flush) the location of the bottom edge of the sheathing will be determined and hence the starting point for the lookouts.  I can make that work.

Where the lookouts are structural the gable end truss has a dropped top chord to match.  If you notch the gable end truss does this cause any problems with the inspector or building dept.?  I realized the gable end truss is not structural but the docs from the truss manufacturer's always warn against notching etc... so I'm wondering if that becomes a problem.

What would be your treatment at the peak with the lookouts.  Notice I've run a lookout on each side of the ridge.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 22, 2015, 12:00:29 PM
Outlookers get a little complicated depending on whether they are structural or not.  Typically around here (Ocean Shores, WA) we see them at 24" on center and they are usually structural.  The top chord of the truss is dropped either 1.5" or 3.5" depending on if they are oriented horizontally or vertically.  With structural lookouts the first lookout from the eave is usually non-structural since the dropped top chord truss will have a special slider attached to top chord to achieve the overhang. See image below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FDOCUMENTS%2FSAMPLES%2FB15050134-Shops_Page_1.jpg&hash=6a13d397b7f14ae8183e106ded3c235d)

Usually the sheeting goes on starting at the bottom so based on that the lookouts would be measured from the bottom edge of the sheeting so that they line up with the seams every 48".

I've seen a single vertical placed the ridge when the outlookers are vertical however what is common practice when the outlookers are horizontal?

Notice the different configuration of the top chord when the drop is only 1.5" (oriented flat).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FDOCUMENTS%2FSAMPLES%2FDropped_Top_Chord_2.jpg&hash=60e57eaf89d0911798ef84721fae493f)

If the overhang is zero then this slider or splice goes away.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FDOCUMENTS%2FSAMPLES%2FLot-146-Truss-Profiles_11.jpg&hash=29c6566717aa4e16cbe69533016a150b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 22, 2015, 12:40:22 PM
A dropped top chord with flat orientation might look something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FDOCUMENTS%2FSAMPLES%2FDropped_Top_Chord_3.jpg&hash=22478495d3bdf3aecd6877be567ddb51)

Without an overhang the gable end truss becomes:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FDOCUMENTS%2FSAMPLES%2FDropped_Top_Chord_4.jpg&hash=32e447e03fee7599d1549f3352fa5cb8)

Note that the outlookers would probably be spaced from the bottom at 24" on center.

Another interesting point to note is that if the overhang or top chord of the truss is a 2x4 and one wants to use structural 2x6 vertical outlookers at the gable end.  How would that work, I don't think it would at least not easily.  If the outlookers are structural and vertical I will constrain them to be the same depth as the top chord in order to simplify things.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 22, 2015, 02:00:32 PM
Usually I'll have an outlooker near the ridge, if I don't have one close enough to suit me I'll put one there. Then my ridge string will find the peak of the first barge rafter and I'll nail it to the outlookers on that side. The second fly should just bump in up top and nail to lookouts on your way down.

Notching is forbidden, not ordering the trusses, and the gables, correctly is how I usually end up notching the gable truss. I've never been called on it but it is incorrect, a dropped gable end is the correct way to build it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 22, 2015, 02:16:46 PM
Usually I'll have an outlooker near the ridge, if I don't have one close enough to suit me I'll put one there. Then my ridge string will find the peak of the first barge rafter and I'll nail it to the outlookers on that side. The second fly should just bump in up top and nail to lookouts on your way down.

Can you expound more on this paragraph?  I'm not sure what the second fly is, (the other rake board).  Even though I might be an engineer doesn't mean I understand all the finer points of framing.  Usually I never worry about these sorts of details, the framers and contractors take care of it.

I'm going to assume then that you measure the outlookers from the bottom and they are spaced at 24" o/c, if the last set of outlookers are close enough to the peak then an outlooker at the peak is not inserted, if not then you put one there.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 22, 2015, 05:54:10 PM
I was trying my hand at creative writing (not too successfully) and using what I consider to be interchangeable terms for the same members... lookout and outlooker and barge, verge, or fly rafter. So, I'll find the peak with my first barge rafter and then when I bring up its' mate from the other side they will simply meet at the top against each other. I'll usually screw a gusset on the backside that will be covered by the soffit later.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 22, 2015, 09:37:25 PM
Agreed there are too many terms for the same thing.  I'm still trying to figure out the difference between rake board, barge board, barge rafter and fly rafter.  The gusset makes sense otherwise how do the two barge rafters stay together, unless a toenail will hold them, but probably not very well.

Same roof with vertical structural outlookers:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FDOCUMENTS%2FSAMPLES%2FDropped_Top_Chord_5.jpg&hash=d6b201aa0d9701d61e40ff27a40331f0)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 23, 2015, 04:57:41 AM
There it is,
pushing towards good-better-best, then run 22.5" blocking between outlookers over the gable truss...blocking over the bearing. Then if wind controls begin hurricane ties from lower outlookers to gable truss, the bottom corner is the highest wind load, then work your way up tieing them to the frame as needed. I would consider that here on some of our ridgetops that are in the special wind region. (You're probably in a SWR if you have to stake the little blue shack out back down.) I think there is a detail in the WFCM, I'll check tonite.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 23, 2015, 09:43:40 PM
Outlookers enabled under advanced roof options for Monopitch and Attic truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su21_800.jpg&hash=ca5ac673c053614b7ae01ea42188c6db)

Also fixed all truss types so that the outlookers are measured from the bottom.  I also added the option to include outlookers at the peak.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 24, 2015, 03:28:49 AM
Found the "Rake overhang outlooker uplift connection requirements" in the '12 WFCM, pg 174&175. They kick in at 110 mph, 2' max overhang, 20" outlooker limit, greater than half inboard with a metal tie inside the wall from outlooker to studs, blocking required between lookouts.

as an aside for another problem we seem to bump into often, this is in the prescriptive section, they have heeljoint tables to raise rafter ties to halfway up, more generous than the codebook but this manual is also directly referenced in the code.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 24, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
I like to call out a Simpson H4 for my Outlookers, locally.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 25, 2015, 02:20:23 AM
Version 1.1.4 - 11.25.2015
Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Fink) truss type.
Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Fink) truss type with raised heel (vertical w/ strut).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su22_800.jpg&hash=ab7bce29cb1047c5c288ed6f02498bde)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 25, 2015, 04:27:16 PM
Version 1.1.5 - 11.25.2015
- Added Double Fink common truss type.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Double Fink) truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su23_800.jpg&hash=4d120a99b6e0fe237804ce4f2a7ff813)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 26, 2015, 03:08:43 PM
Version 1.1.6 - 11.26.2015
- Added Fan and Mod Queen common truss types.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Fan & Mod Queen) truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su24_800.jpg&hash=c1aa3091fcd02d4d2a2f870448a800ef)

Four more common truss types still need to be added:

- Double Howe
- Mod Fan
- Triple Fink
- Triple Howe

For very large buildings one could also consider:

- Quin Fan (12/6) ...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 28, 2015, 05:02:47 AM
Valley Sets are here:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su25_800.jpg&hash=103dae8e720c180fdcbc1f51fd2f1281)

Proceed with caution though I just put it together so it is still a bit rough around the edges.  Further testing and refinement is necessary but it seems to be working fairly decently.

Currently the main roof plane and two points need to be selected rather carefully I'm not sure I can do much about that, if not I will need to document in some detail how to use this function.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 29, 2015, 01:57:01 AM
I've addressed a few bugs with the valley set algorithm and tested it in as many configurations and orientations as possible.  It it more solid now.  I suggest downloading the latest version of 1.1.7 that I just uploaded to the server.

Note that the plane of the main roof that is selected needs to be a rectangular shape at the moment to properly register (1st point selected).  I usually just select the top face of one of the top chords of the trusses.  The second point should be at the centerline of the last truss of the secondary roof line and at the ridge (peak) of this truss, the third point is also at the ridge (peak) but at a point towards the main roof.  I really need to put the manual together to document this feature and how to use it, or at least a video.

I also updated the geometry algorithm slightly so that it adds additional verts a 48" o/c when the valley trusses get too large.  This is keeping in line with standard practice on these types of valley sets.  I can also make this an input if someone requests that it be such.

This update was not that complicated (valley sets) other than trying to figure out how to place the set based only on a plane and two points. Obtaining this information and then figuring out the math and code to compute the vertical distance between the bottom of the first valley truss where it rests on the main roof plane and the peak of the secondary roof line was the slightly painful part. The actual geometry of the valley set was surprisingly easy to code.

The real challenge will begin when I try to add some hip sets, I may push that out for awhile.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 29, 2015, 02:24:37 PM
Here is an example of a large valley set with a Monopitch Primary Roof and a Common Secondary Roof.  Notice the pitch of the monopitch roof is 6:12 while the secondary roof is 12:12.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su26_800.jpg&hash=7a76411583c798f8d7ab71e9ce1798cc)

Rather than calculate the overhang for the secondary roof it is just as easy to to trim the truss tails back and adjust the fascia so that it lines up with the fascia of the main roof after the fact.

Even with all the automation of certain tasks there is still a good bit of manual editing required when complex roof lines are involved however I find that SketchUp has a very intuitive interface for trimming solids and once the basic geometry is there the rest is usually not too much trouble.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 29, 2015, 04:32:54 PM
Doing that you end up with unequal overhang widths. You really need to be able to specify finished overhang widths.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 29, 2015, 06:30:13 PM
With the main roof sheathing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su27_800.jpg&hash=acfde89a85fa21c2d6e1908abe0eb419)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 29, 2015, 06:32:26 PM
Doing that you end up with unequal overhang widths. You really need to be able to specify finished overhang widths.

You can input the overhang widths however to match vertically to the main roof fascia would require some calculation.  It's almost just as easy to specify an overhang that is too long and then go back in and adjust the overhang manually so that the fascias match up.  I will give this some thought though, there may be a better way to approach this.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 03, 2015, 04:57:23 PM
I was doodling and tried it with a mix of stick, common and scissors with valley sets. I'm still getting the hang of things.
The common rafters controlled heel height, I matched the height above plate of the common trusses to the common rafters when I next inserted them. I clipped the truss tails back to 22-1/2" to match the common rafters and everyone was fine at the gutter line, all 4/12. Then I inserted scissors, my version didn't have height adjustment so I aligned the trusses at the gutter line and raised the wall. You can see where I draw in what I call the gutter line, or the drip edge, to help me keep things aligned as I work.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fcrossgable2.jpg&hash=955bfc1cab4cf3591d174dc42746de73)

I'll need to play with pitch combinations, this all worked fine. My fear is that if you clip tails to adjust, the bearings will drift.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 03, 2015, 05:30:17 PM
Wow, very cool.  I've been busy the last couple days working on some local stuff so I haven't had much chance to add new features or pay too much attention to the boards.

When you get the  model finished send me a copy of the SketchUp file so I can examine the gutter lines if you don't mind.   My next thing is to add in rafter roofs, but the issues with heel heights and fascia or gutter lines is very important.

Looks like you figure out how to use the valley set feature, I really need to document this in a manual otherwise I'm going to get a lot of confused people.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 07, 2015, 04:25:20 AM
Version 1.1.8 - 12.07.2015
- Advanced options enabled for gable rafter roofs (sub-fascia, outlookers, sheathing, and rakeboards).
- New submenu item and toolbar icon added for rafter roof type.
- Plugin divided into multiple files for ease of management.

Structural outlookers for this type of a roof are still somewhat of a question.  If they are horizontal it makes sense to notch the gable rafter but what if they are vertical?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 07, 2015, 02:38:37 PM
omit the gable rafter for structural lookouts, they rest on the top plate of the rake wall.

There is a code restriction on birdsmouth depth now... deleted what I really think of this. The notch can be no deeper than 1/4 of rafter depth. The old rule was that a minimum of 3.5" was left above the birdsmouth for tails up to 2' horizontal span.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 08, 2015, 07:16:05 PM
I actually just noticed the 1/4 rafter depth rule a few days ago on a local project, I was not aware of the old rule, interesting.  I think in the plugin I will allow for deeper birdmouth cut since a lot of my clients are in Australia and Europe and I have no idea what their codes specify.  However, I will probably make it throw a warning when the notch is deeper than 1/4 the rafter depth.

Version 1.1.8 - 12.08.2015
- Structural Outlookers enabled for gable rafter roofs (vertical & horizontal).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su30_800.jpg&hash=cedc47f542411f0417bcaf7ebb6126cb)

Notice in this case I have left the gable rafter in place but notched clean through it so essentially it is blocking.  However, I have given the option for removing the gable rafter entirely.  You will also notice that the gable rafter is the same depth as the outlookers, when you choose "CUSTOM" for the gable end rafter it allows one to specify the depth of this rafter.

There are almost too many options, at some point I need to put together a manual explaining how to use this thing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 09, 2015, 04:01:18 AM
Bingo, that is how the framing looks above the top plate once blocked.

I agree with just having it throw a warning up when the birdsmouth exceeds 1/4 depth. I've spoken with the engineering folks at AWC and several others about this change and feel it is incorrect but it is code now. When you get into complex hips and valleys you need room at the HAP, the height above plate, the distance above the birdsmouth, to get things to plane correctly. Often with a hip you'll be pushing the minimum notch on the commons in order to keep an acceptable notch and bearing on the hip.

Roofs can get very complex and trying to include too much could lose most users in the weeds, I'm not sure where that point is though because capability also fosters neat stuff.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 10, 2015, 08:41:06 AM
Version 1.1.9 - 12.10.2015
- Added Gable Rafter Roof with Glulam Beam (all advanced options enabled).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su31_800.jpg&hash=2dc89946fdf06e07043841f783bc538f)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 10, 2015, 07:57:56 PM
Here is quick model of the wall framing associated with a gable roof with a glulam beam:

Beam Pocket with 6x6 post:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su32_800.jpg&hash=54d317cfd11d82193b8483275310460a)

Gable wall and eave wall intersection:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su33_800.jpg&hash=70e4d9237c1d56bff442083c03035935)

Overview of Model:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su35_800.jpg&hash=b2ff92be985c9677b9d82c6361966cbb)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 11, 2015, 03:20:40 AM
Looking good. My lookouts are normally the same dimension as the fly rafter to provide soffit nailing as well as sheathing nailing.

And a pet peeve, a glulam end out in the weather. I prefer to run the fly or at least the finished fascia over the end and tuck the glulam under the overhang.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2015, 05:43:20 AM
I've added an extra input for the beam which allows ones to specify the overhang of the beam from the outside of the wall.  With zero overhang the beam will be flush with the wall framing and not exposed.  If the beam overhang is less than the gable overhang, the fly will be as shown below (up to the roof peak).  If the beam overhang is greater than the gable overhang it will project past and the fly will adjust accordingly.  The beam overhang is not restricted in any manner.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su36_800.jpg&hash=4308b97ce7a26c57d8092b0d64f338b9)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2015, 06:06:14 AM
I remember a few years back when I was in college and working a side job as a construction laborer we framed up a roof similar to this.  The rafters were large I-Joists (TJI 560 equiv.) and were hangered from the glulam beam.  The beam was probably almost 2 feet deep.  I just remember I was glad I was cutting the blocking on the miter saw and not the one at the peak of the roof setting the rafters into the hangers.

With that being said I am wondering how often I-Joists are used in this type of application versus common lumber.  I can probably add in an option to use them instead of common lumber.  One question I have though is what to do at the other end, where they bear at the wall.  I would need to study this further.

On a slightly different note.  Since Don_P and others on this board have helped with the development of this plugin and given graciously of their time, energy and knowledge I would like to offer the full (not trial) plugin to all those members of the board who are interested, free of charge.  Send me an email or message me with your board name and I will provide you the link to download the plugin.  All that I ask is you provide me with feedback on how to further improve and refine it if you find something that needs attention.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 11, 2015, 03:47:11 PM
Early on I asked for a raise, next thing I knew I was 30 feet in the air and the boss asked if I wanted another  :D.

I was going to say I know how much work you've put into this, but I think you've put in more than that. Thank you.

I've used TJI's for rafters once and swore I'd never do it again. It has been, holy cow, 21 years ago. The top end was no big deal, the bottom required squash blocks and a proprietary lateral strap that went from plate over top of rafter and back to plate. The tails required more deadwood. Basically they were light and easy in one regard but the detailing ate up an inordinate amount of time. But they have less thermal bridging and can be deeper to hold more insulation, can span further and are straight. I've detailed sawn rafters by applying 2x2's under or over the rafters on different jobs for insulation, that sure wasn't fast, so part of my objection is probably just whining. That detailing is in each manufacturers product guides.

AITC, glulam.org, has a good series of details as well, they are in the manual but I believe that section is one of their free downloads. Another way to draw that is with a dropped ridge that has a beveled cant strip on top that the rafters bear on with a gusset across the rafter couple.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2015, 04:46:14 PM
I have some designer friends in Colorado and they suggested I add the I-joist option for rafter roofs since in their neck of the woods the snow loads usually require them to go to I-joists except for small spans.

All of the pertinent details for typical I-Joists can be found here:

http://www.woodbywy.com/document/tj-4000/

The problem with I-joists is the bevel cuts are more difficult since it requires more operations to model, but I think I can do it. The outlookers at the gable ends would need to notch around the top flange of the I-joist. A double or single bearing plate is required at the ridge or hangers from the beam, notching at the high end of the roof joist is not allowed. Birdsmouth cut at the low end of the joist is allowed but requires web stiffeners on both sides of the joist.

I don't think I would model in any of the web stiffeners, otherwise the model gets too heavy, same goes for small fasteners and hangers.

I haven't even considered the option yet with the rafters resting on top of the beam (dropped ridge).  As you suggested they (TJI manufacturer) do not allow notching at the top end and therefore a beveled bearing plate or strip is required with web stiffeners on both sides of the I-joist.  Their detail shows a strap across the tops of the I-joists tying them together across the beam, I'm pretty familiar with this detail from some local jobs. I'm also wondering about the beveled strip, how is it made, thickness at the butt etc...

With common sawn rafters how would you typically handle a dropped beam?  Would you use a beveled strip or would you apply a  birdsmouth cut at the ridge?

The problem is I'm not out in the field enough so I never get to see this stuff actually go together.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2015, 08:54:10 PM
When the plugin is loaded in a metric template it will now utilize a web dialog with metric sizes for glulam beams.  The menu and glulam beam sizes are currently listed at the following link:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/sketchup/html/web_dialog_glulam_metric.html

I probably don't list every combination possible or manufactured in each respective country or jurisdiction but hopefully I list the most common sizes.  So far I have entered in data for the United Kingdom (Great Britain), South Africa, and Australia (and New Zealand).

I can enter in more countries if provided the data (width, depth, locale name and ply thickness).  Now that I have the web dialogs and html files setup it is not a big deal to add more entries.

When the plugin is loaded in inches or feet then the US sizes or AWC NDS tables are loaded.  So far I have only found one country that still uses the old units.

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/sketchup/html/web_dialog_glulam.html
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 13, 2015, 02:17:22 AM
Added dropped beam options for Gable Rafter Roof with Glulam Beam: Notched rafter and Bevelled plate.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su37_800.jpg&hash=051d1a6dc540e68f6d1acf9d241b9d09)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su38_800.jpg&hash=69f6ceebeb5f5b40f2b4f5ec28ce03f7)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 13, 2015, 03:58:32 AM

The problem with I-joists is the bevel cuts are more difficult since it requires more operations to model, but I think I can do it. The outlookers at the gable ends would need to notch around the top flange of the I-joist.

This one has been nagging in the back of my mind, the CO designers would be a better resource. As the outlooker is loaded outboard, wind down or unbalanced snow, if it is notched around the flange does it put an unallowable tension on the flange/web connection?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 13, 2015, 06:26:16 PM
Version 1.2.0 - 12.13.2015
- Added ceiling joist option for Gable Rafter Roof.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su39_800.jpg&hash=0c2fb55e12259459489ee1b194e1de2c)

Note: In the image shown I have raised the ceiling joist 24", the default is zero, or resting on the top plate of the wall.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 13, 2015, 10:11:43 PM
This one has been nagging in the back of my mind, the CO designers would be a better resource. As the outlooker is loaded outboard, wind down or unbalanced snow, if it is notched around the flange does it put an unallowable tension on the flange/web connection?

If the outlooker is nailed into the web of the TJI (vertical outlookers) then I think it would probably be okay, since a fraction of the load would be transfered directly into the web through fastener shear.  I guess the question really is what is the point load at that location.  The worst case loading situation (for most locales) would probably be a (+ 200 lbs) construction worker installing trim or shingles at the gable with all of his weight concentrated at or near the end of the outlooker.  Assuming a worst case 2 ft overhang with I-joist rafters at 2ft on center you have a 200 lbs point load at the end of this outlooker.  Theoretically the sheathing would distribute some of the load into the other outlookers but lets assume the full load for argument sake.  According to Weyerhaeuser's technical bulletin (TB-808) the max. allowable load (hanging from the bottom flange) is 500 lbs every 5 feet (250 lbs each side of the flange).  Probably any more than this and you run the risk of ripping the web out of the flange (localized failure of the I-joist).

So if we put a 300 lbs guy out there I would say things get a little dicey.  In areas with exceptional snow loads this could also become a consideration.  My first thought would be to limit the overhang allowed for such regions and of course metal, high pitched roofs help considerably.

I also noticed in the TJ-4000 (Detail O) they only show the outlookers in a vertical orientation.  Are we allowed to do a horizontal orientation (outlookers laid flat)?  And if so how do we make that attachment?

You will also notice in this same detail that they suggest doubling the joist adjacent to the gable wall when the overhang exceeds the joist spacing.  This will help to prevent excessive load and deflection to this joist but it doesn't decrease the point load to the flange/web interface unless you drive fasteners through both I-joists and into the outlooker and provide blocking between the I-joists webs.

Locally here in Ocean Shores WA the high wind loads are the main factor and the sheathing loads at the overhang necessitate outlookers at 24" o/c, even though every one around here seems to like to run them at 48" o/c.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 14, 2015, 03:02:47 PM
Various configurations of a cambered truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FGEOMETRY%2FCAMBERED1.jpg&hash=202b31b0e804967f0494647469a1fdc3)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 16, 2015, 09:42:01 PM
Version 1.2.1 - 12.16.2015
- Added gable end trusses (ladders) and ribbon boards to the floor truss type (Warren - System 42).
- Sheathing option enabled under advanced floor options for floor trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su40_800.jpg&hash=f6bfe4431db9764e0cb5e88aec46cfda)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 21, 2015, 11:23:10 PM
Version 1.2.2 - 12.21.2015
- Added TJI Rafter Roof with Glulam Beam (all advanced options enabled).
- Added dropped beam option for TJI Rafter Roof with Glulam Beam: Bevelled plate

Note, the birdsmouth cut at the lower bearing point.  What I am not showing is the additional web blocking (stiffeners) required at this bearing point and at the ridge beam, see TJI-4000 (http://www.woodbywy.com/document/tj-4000/) for more details.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 23, 2015, 01:58:09 PM
Version 1.2.2 - 12.23.2015
- Structural outlookers notched around TJI top flange when oriented vertically, as per TJI manufacturer's structural details.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su43_800.jpg&hash=6100150e9c79d7bb7fe3cabae841a52f)

The tails of the TJI joists at the overhangs is left untrimmed however it is very easy to trim the tail of the rafters as shown below to customize to your particular roof requirements.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 25, 2015, 01:17:42 PM
Check detail O on pg 15 of TJI4000 a rake wall with blocking between outlookers, for the rbz. I think you can simply make that solid sawn rafter the same depth as the outlookers to show the blocking and the rake wall would be drawn in the wall layer. I would only nail the outlooker end through the web, I believe on a laminated flange a horizontal nail is not allowed I'm not sure about a solid sawn flange. Anyway, if so, that would also mean the non structural outlookers in the previous post need some connection detailing
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 25, 2015, 02:23:55 PM
You have the option of making the the solid sawn gable end rafter as deep as the outlookers or deeper.  I'm trying to make the plugin as realistic as possible but also give plenty of latitude for the designer to configure things as they choose, probably in some cases constructing things incorrectly.

With the outlookers oriented horizontally I'm not sure how one would actually make that work, it probably does not since the TJI4000 does not give a detail showing that orientation.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 29, 2015, 05:24:30 AM
Version 1.2.3 - 12.29.2015

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su45_800.jpg&hash=522a800050eb0b0557357a8fe18c2f77)

A square hip roof (pyramid):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su46_800.jpg&hash=80efb2844a560ff2420a10ef295c2ffb)

I still need to add in the advanced options for this roof type (sheathing, fascia etc...)  I'm also thinking about ceiling joists and how best to configure them.  For low pitch hip roofs the ceiling joists near the hip ends will clash with the hip jack rafters unless they are oriented parallel to the jack rafters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 29, 2015, 07:12:19 PM
A more complex hip roof combined with some trusses.  Note I have not trimmed back all of the rafters in the top image.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su47_800.jpg&hash=b8286430b75e2f1c6fff133a203c73af)

I initially generated the hip roofs (two rectangles) and then deleted the appropriate members and trimmed the common rafters to create the valley jack rafters and cripple jack rafters.  The valley rafter was created by copying an instance of one of the hip rafters and moving it into place.  The end result is:

Overall the process has been simplified by having the hip roof feature in the plugin.  Trimming the members is the most time consuming, perhaps a more efficient trim tool can be devised so that intersecting members can be easily trimmed back to clean up a complex roof.  Ultimately it would be cool to have the plugin automatically handle even more complex roofs such as this but that would take some serious programming.

Also note that I used a raised heel for the trusses so that the heel height and gutter line of the trusses matches that of the rafters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 30, 2015, 01:57:19 AM
Wow!
I was still working on a response to the previous post. I believe the correct way to frame the ceiling joists would be to use common ceiling joists until you bump the underside of the hip. Then from that last cj turn short cripple cj's from the last common ceiling joist onto the adjacent wall alongside those rafters, again until you bump the underside of the hip. Then double up that last common cj (I left it off until now to facilitate nailing) Then from the lower end of hip at the wall corner to the corner formed by the last cjs there is a diagonal cj, a dragon. Then hip cj's into it... being short spans these can all usually drop to 2x4's.

Then, technically a hip needs to be tied in both directions (or propped). I've gone the one way with ceiling joists and the other way with simpson straps into the diaphragm or until I can get to a "hard" place.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 30, 2015, 12:09:45 PM
So theoretically the ceiling joists can get a little crazy as well.

In the sample residence shown below the pitch is 7:12 so in this case the CJ's could run all the way up to the last jack rafter and there would be no need to have cripple cj's, or maybe it would be reasonable to have a few to tie the whole ceiling together?  I'm not real familiar with "old school" framing since I never see any of it locally, most jobs use trusses with the occasional framed over section but rarely do I see entire roofs, stick framed, like shown below.

I get the bracing of the roof with the ceiling joists but I'm not understanding the other way with the straps.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 30, 2015, 05:49:53 PM
Note the cripple or stub ceiling joists in this picture:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hearlihy.com%2FiCongoProductImages%2FiCg_36790TrueScaleHippedRoof.jpg&hash=9a80cbb830d8710cb658cf5765ce4efa)

and the doubled ceiling joist in this picture:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsh.k12.nf.ca%2Ftechnology%2Fcmhc%2Fenglish%2Ffeatures%2Fillustrations%2Fimages%2Ffig056.jpg&hash=2d2392f60ab9e805d5b31e475441f1cd)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 30, 2015, 07:07:50 PM
Testing out the hip roof feature with some more complex roof lines:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su49_800.jpg&hash=fe7ec06fe7ae2f9e128c1729924578bd)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su50_800.jpg&hash=8e9581207d79b5e9c602f561cbb95d8a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su51_800.jpg&hash=4e52c68e48d0db4f91bdf97d49ffd1fc)

The thing that jumps out at me right away is the ease with which I can generate the basic roof lines and most of the rafters.  This particular roof required (4) rectangular roofs to generate all of the lines.  The only thing that is missing is the valley rafters.  To make this feature more functional for complex roofs I only need to have a tool that can generate valley rafters and trim back members to create the cripple rafters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 31, 2015, 04:11:46 AM
Going back to the straps, a hip roof is considered to thrust both ways. Where the ceiling joists tie from side to side unbroken we've got it tied. In the direction across the short tail joists the roof is not tied yet. If there is adequate sheathing nailing on the attic floor across the tails and to a floor diaphragm that would work. I've blocked deep into the room to develop a tie there. I ran about half a spool of simpson strap last year on a house that had a floor under a diamond hip with the tail joists untied, the wall had been thrust outward at the top.

There was a common thought in that time that still persists, and there is merit, that a hip roof is self supporting. The roof was a flexible diaphragm and even now is unblocked, although fully sheathed it is too flexible to count on calling that some form of folded plate. The hips back then were often 2x4 or 2x6. I've removed them broken, scabbed and propped, and with 4" of permanent deflection as well.

R802-803 touches on it;
http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/content/VA/2012_VA_Residential_HTML/Chapter%208.html
I prefer to have the hips, valleys, and any ridge designed as beams and supported as such if at all possible. I would check those members on your hipped ranch, smile and build. Since you have it on structural beams I wouldn't be concerned with the tail joists (although I'd probably wrap a strap on the center tail joist and over the double common cj)

JLC had an article some years ago, a small hipped building with LVL hips bearing on welded steel top plate angles, feet long out of each corner and with clips to rigidly hold the hips, that was a nice looking self supporting hip.

The complex roof even untrimmed sure helps with visualization. By hand that would have taken me many walks out in the yard  :)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 04, 2016, 09:15:03 PM
Looks like JLC has a lot of good articles on a number of things even beyond conventional roof framing, I'm going to have to spend a day just looking through their site.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 04, 2016, 09:23:55 PM
Looking at cantilevered trusses tonight.  The use of a wedge, slider or strut depends on the amount of the overhang and in some cases if the overhang (cantilever) is within the scarf cut of the top chord no additional member is required, see image below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fcantilevertruss2.jpg&hash=fb7ec00d19a2f8335b0a38bd8a58f0d8)

Notice how the web strut is centered over the point of bearing with the long cantilever.  Also notice that the panel point placement of this fink truss was not altered with the addition of the cantilever.

Basically this will be a new truss family and I'll start with the fink truss and take it from there.  If anyone has shop drawing from truss plants they are willing to share that show different configurations of a cantilever truss, that would be very helpful.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 05, 2016, 03:25:54 AM
Found the JLC article I was thinking of here;
http://www.mvconstruction.com/roof_article.pdf
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 08, 2016, 02:01:34 AM
Version 1.2.4 - 01.08.2016
- Plugin integrated with the Medeek Truss Designer (http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl).
- Engineering of common fink truss enabled.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su52_800.jpg&hash=bb6f82eb2646db20230995e133437c26)

When a new truss is created (common truss types only for now) the parameters are specified within the dynamic component attribute library.  Opening the component options allows one to change some of these values.

The new engineering icon (https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fcalculator%2Fsketchup%2Fimages%2Fmdkplg_tool_icon24_6.png&hash=c1be53b798e8688d8650a6e4a85bd921) allows one to automatically transfer all of the truss design parameters directly from SketchUp to the Truss Designer for engineering checks.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 08, 2016, 02:38:30 PM
The current Medeek Truss Plugin menu now has 5 icons:

The available items are the following:

1.) Draw Roof Truss:
- Common
- Attic
- Monopitch
- Scissor

2.) Draw Floor Truss:
- Floor Truss
- TJI Joist

3.) Draw Truss Set:
- Valley Set

4.) Draw Roof Rafters:
- Gable Roof
- Gable Roof w/ GLB
- TJI Roof w/ GLB
- Hip Roof

5.) Engineering Calculations:
- Truss (common truss types only)

Note that the menus show additional items that are either being worked on or are planned for future releases.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 09, 2016, 05:33:46 AM
I've banged around on it some, awesome work.
Is there a way to get back to the options boxes and change a setting after the truss has been drawn which would then modify the drawing to reflect the change? I've been "undoing" the truss in sketchup and trying again.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 09, 2016, 08:12:39 AM
You make a good point.  The truss component in SketchUp is not fully dynamic yet, however if you right click on the actual truss component and open the Dynamic Component -> Component Options dialog box you will see that you can change some options associated with the truss.  The items grayed out you cannot currently change but I would like to try and make some of them dynamic as well.

if you make a change here and then proceed with the engineering you will notice the new values are then sent to the calculator.  The dynamic attributes revealed in this dialog are what is being sent to the calculator for engineering.

For most people engineering a truss will probably not be particularly useful (truss plant usually takes care of these details) however if I add engineering for rafters, beams, ceiling joists, and floor joists etc... I think that would make this plugin significantly more of a value add.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 09, 2016, 09:59:50 AM
If you can work in plywood gusset design at some point then truss design becomes quite useful. In my state and a number of others we have an ag exemption from inspection, we can design and build our own, I can also use native lumber... hmm allow me to enter design values?

For rafters, we did have a request on the forum last week for an A frame design. The concept pic looked like quite long rafters, so would probably be better in I joists, and looked to be a bit steeper than 24/12. Can the pitch be a type in input? When a roof starts to get cut up the pitches can be X.xxx/12
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 09, 2016, 11:15:49 AM
A couple months ago I was working on the engineering of the plywood gusset plates.  I really should re-focus back on to that and get it going.  There is definitely a nitch market there that no one has seemed to fill just yet.

If I remember correctly I was pondering the exact nature of a heel joint and the proper treatment of the gusset plate (shear, tension or both) in this situation.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 10, 2016, 01:11:53 AM
I've done some maintenance on the beam calculator in preparation for integration with the Truss Plugin:

Version 1.0.1 - 01.10.2016
- Updated javascript front end so that selected options are properly retained.
- Updated total load (reactions) to include applied load and selfweight over total span. Results now more closely agree with WoodWorks Sizer Software.
- Inputs now include option for Total Span and Clear Span.
- Removed beam configurations that are not yet complete.
- Beam graphic now shows span geometry with supports.

http://design.medeek.com/resources/beam/beam_calculator.pl

At some point I need to come up with a slicker interface that allows for multiple point loads and supports but that is a job for another day.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 10, 2016, 04:19:34 PM
Version 1.2.5 - 01.10.2016
- Plugin integrated with the Medeek Beam Calculator.
- Engineering of North American glulam beam sizes enabled (Western, Southern Pine).

Also note that the Beam Calculator has a very nice PDF report output than can include client and job information.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 10, 2016, 09:32:52 PM
Screenshot of the Beam Calculator that will pop up when called from the plugin:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su53_800.jpg&hash=572920dafb4ab8c1131ac4a106163281)

So far I only have glulam beams as an option in the plugin but I will probably add LVL, LSL, PSL and Solid Sawn and those can also be analyzed with this same interface.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 11, 2016, 05:56:21 PM
First tutorial video:

https://youtu.be/1WqGkK15zYA
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 12, 2016, 11:23:17 AM
Engineering Video:

https://youtu.be/f0y7y8WtjDw

The SketchUp model used in the video can be found here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u6c602b47-40bb-4349-9e0e-0917746ab90a
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 12, 2016, 06:59:45 PM
Valley Truss Set:

https://youtu.be/CrI7pdEfb1o
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 13, 2016, 12:04:08 AM
Hip Roof Framing:

https://youtu.be/zyHuGR6nwpg

SketchUp model used in the video can be found here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u53e50317-d46f-40dd-a95f-c50b1d51302d

I think you are going to be hard pressed to find something that can frame up a hip roof faster than this thing can.  I just keep coming back to it trying to create even more cut up roofs just for fun.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 14, 2016, 01:24:22 AM
Testing the limits of the Medeek Truss Plugin with complex hip roofs. Note that the roof primitives have not been trimmed back. This is primarily a study to determine what additional programming would be required to generate this type of roof automatically:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su54_800.jpg&hash=659f291d83ef5f8db52e3bf5c8778f68)

This for me would be the holy grail of hip roof framing...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 14, 2016, 07:35:16 AM
As you can see there is still a tremendous amount of work that can be done here.  To that end I've started a KickStarter project which if successful would allow me to devote at least 4-5 months of my undivided attention on the programming of this plugin:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/128644708/medeek-truss-plugin
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 16, 2016, 03:07:36 PM
I have been giving some thought to dormers and how to specify them.  Below is a dormer design I framed in Solidworks a few years back for a garage design:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FGARAGE4828-A6D-3_DORMER1.jpg&hash=17f3b5a08e3605d284d9ed3fb709bc97)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fslideshow%2FGARAGE4828-A6D-3_FRAMING5_1024.jpg&hash=8a8393c57819da90a948683cfb48460a)

Of course the numerous ways in which one could frame a dormer is probably beyond the scope of this discussion but I would like to consider what geometry needs to be determined in order to orient and size the dormer.

After some thought I think the following points, planes and lengths would define the geometry of a typical dormer:

1.) Main Roof Plane
2.) Attic Floor Plane
3.) Offset from exterior wall below (how far the dormer is out of plane from the ext. wall below).
4.) Pitch of Dormer roof
5.) Dormer width
6.) Dormer height (distance from attic floor plane to top plate of dormer wall)
7.) Window width, height, and header depth
8.) Dormer wall thickness (2x4 or 2x6)
9.) Dormer rafter depth
10.) Position of Dormer along length of building

Items 2,3 and 10 can be combined into a single point selection.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 16, 2016, 04:51:42 PM
Pondering complex hip roofs this afternoon and considering the graphic below:

A few rules seem to emerge:

1.) An outside corner will always create a hip that is 45 deg. from each leg of the corner.
2.) An inside corner will likewise always create a valley 135 deg. from each leg of the corner.
3.) Where two hips or flying hips meet a ridge will extend 135 deg. from each hip.
4.) When two valleys meet at 90 deg. they will terminate and a ridge will extend at 45 deg. from each valley.
5.) With a building with walls only running north-south or east-west all ridge lines will always be north-south or east-west.
6.) Likewise all hips, valleys and flying hips will be oriented northwest, northeast, southwest, or southeast.
7.) When a valley meets a ridge, (they will always meet at 45 deg) a flying hip is generated that is 90 deg. from the valley and 135 deg from the ridge.
8.) When two valleys meet at 180 deg. from each other, the result will be either to flying hips perp. to the valleys or the degenerate case of 4 valleys and 4 ridges.
9.) When a valley and a hip meet each other at 180 deg. then two ridges that are 45 deg from the valley will be the result (typical L shaped roof).
10.) When 4 hips meet the result is a pyramid.

There may be a few other degenerate cases I'm missing but I think that covers it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 16, 2016, 11:46:50 PM
Variation in plate heights, pitches, overhangs and even mixing hip and gable (half hip, dutch gable) further complicate the matter.  To begin with I need a algorithm to generate the roof planes, then the framing just falls out from there.  To create the roof planes I need a fairly robust straight skeleton implementation.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 17, 2016, 04:06:52 AM
The rules apply if the pitches are the same, as soon as you go to a split pitch the hip in plan changes. You can draw a right triangle with the inches of pitch of one side on one leg, the pitch of the other side on the adjacent leg and the hypotenuse connecting them will be the hip angle in plan.
Draw a 4/12 end meeting an 8/12 main roof and the hip angle change from 45* to around 65*. To keep the overhangs the same, the hip moves out of the corner at the building line to the steeper side.

I was hoping for more response on the kickstarter, it is amazing to see what you are doing. I'd really like to see what you can do with more time dedicated to developing this.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 17, 2016, 05:02:26 AM
Here's an irregular hip, a 4/12 meeting an 8/12 main roof superimposed over the building line.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fsplitpitch.jpg&hash=5b2ca232d753350c7c427fd8dc5fc839)
there used to be an article online by Joe Fusco that did a good job of walking through it with a calculator.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 18, 2016, 07:33:48 PM
Version 1.2.6 - 01.18.2016
- Sill plate option (advanced) enabled for top and bottom bearing floor trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su55_800.jpg&hash=7b740824b31a01801c99d185f0831e1c)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u98d5f3e7-8cab-4acc-8160-7e20617e1814

Work on the manual is progressing however for those interested the red colored boards in the image are called  "ribbon boards".  This is fairly typical for floor trusses.  The notch purposely left in the truss to accommodate the ribbon board is called the ribbon cut or ribbon notch.  Continuous ribbons provide stability for installed trusses, and also provide a solid nailing surface for the edge nailing of floor sheathing. This eliminates the need for larger and more expensive “rimboard” solutions required by dimensional lumber and other engineered wood products.  2x4 lumber is common, but any dimension of 2x lumber can be used for the ribbon board.

Similar to the complex hip roofs I need to program the floor truss module so that it can automatically frame out any non-rectangular floor plan.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 20, 2016, 10:56:46 AM
Version 1.2.6 - 01.19.2016
- Added Solid Sawn Floor Joists (metric and imperial)
- Sill plate and Sheathing options (advanced) enabled for TJI and Solid Sawn floor joists.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 21, 2016, 09:28:08 PM
For the next week or so I'm going to spend some of my free time on wood gusset plate engineering.  I'm going to post engineering questions and some quasi-engineering questions regarding the connections.  Realize that some of these questions are me thinking out loud, contemplating how best to approach this type of truss design.

I'm looking at the nailing of the gussets right now and I'm considering the difference between nails in single shear or double shear. For larger fasteners (ie. 16d nails) it would seem optimal to clinch them on the reverse side and then calculate them in double shear. My question is at what length of fastener exceeding the total thickness can I functionally clinch the nails and consider them in double shear.

For argument sake lets assume a 1.5" truss ply thickness and 1/2" gusset plates each side giving a total thickness of 2.5". An 8D common nail is 2.5", however I would not consider it in double shear in this application. If I were to use a 10D thru 16D common nail in this situation I would have at least 1/2" of nail or more to clinch so in those cases I think I could safely assume clinching was possible and nails are loaded in double shear. Would less than 1/2" of nail protrusion be too small to clinch?

To open up the calculations to as many options as possible I'm considering 8d, 10d, 12d and 16d nails with all the three possible nail types: common, box, sinker.

I also considering 6d and 7d nails but I'm not sure if I will allows those yet.

The plywood or OSB thickness will be: 3/8, 7/16, 15/32, 19/32, 23/32.

Giving this even more thought it would seem that certain gusset thicknesses and nail combinations would not be optimal if the possibility for clinching and double shear is not possible. For instance if I have 23/32" gusset plates on both sides and 1.5" truss ply for a total thickness of 3". If I were to use a common 10D nail or 12D nail I probably could not clinch and therefore double shear is not possible, hence I would have to nail the truss from both front and back. Would this not tend to cause the main member to have more tendency to split since there are double the nails in it.  It would also require roughly double the nails.

I'm also going to assume that the osb/ plywood is Structural I, this would be my recommendation anyways in an effort to eliminate defects and require a stronger material for the gusset plates.  This affects both the shear values of the gusset plates and the lateral loading capacity of the nails.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 21, 2016, 10:05:46 PM
Some previous notes and images related to WGC trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fwgc_calculator%2FWGC_TRUSS%2FIMAGES%2FFINKTRUSS_24_4-12.jpg&hash=fcd861a1f27a7308b2a2e50129e53ed1)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fwgc_calculator%2FWGC_TRUSS%2FIMAGES%2FWp2web.jpg&hash=f867d65965b37766de1f66a7bfc0125c)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 24, 2016, 02:16:32 PM
Assuming only a double shear connection which would prevent excessive nailing of the main truss member and splitting, the following gusset plate thickness and nail combinations would be allowed:

Gusset Plate   Total Thickness Nails
3/8" = 2.25": 10d Commmon, 10d Box, 10d Sinker
7/16" = 2.375": 10d Commmon, 10d Box, 10d Sinker, 12d Sinker
15/32" = 2.4375":  10d Commmon, 10d Box, 10d Sinker, 12d Sinker
19/32" = 2.6875":  12d Common, 12d Box, 12d Sinker, 16d Box, 16d Sinker
23/32" = 2.9375": 16d Box, 20d Sinker

This would allow for at least 3 x diameter for clinching, and also does not violate  NDS 2012 Sec. 11.1.6.5.

Current engineering practice uses the yield limit equations (Sec. 11.3 NDS 2012) found in the AWC National Design Standard to check the capacity of dowel type fasteners like nails. This is the standard I will use to comply with current code and engineering practice. Rather than use the tables I will have to calculate 4 separate equations for each joint in double shear (Im, Is, IIIs, IV). It sounds like a lot of work but once you set it all up in the program the computer does the number crunching. To manually calculate all of the numbers for a typical truss design would probably take me 4-5 hours, with a programmed solution, 10 - 20 seconds to enter the inputs and your done.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 24, 2016, 03:24:02 PM
Somewhere... There is a clinching limit, I believe not beyond 12d, I think to prevent tension perp splitting.
Pallet manufacture uses hardened gun nails which will get closer to double shear without clinching but that is not a common gun nail. They also use a technique called "spotting" where they use a nail slightly longer than the assemble thickness and shoot it together over a steel plate. The nail connects then hits the plate and deforms a bit. Again probably not something for the field just info. I'm not sure if it will help in thinking about the yield limit programming but the awc.org connections calc is using the NDS equations. ~3/8" to clinch, that seems doable.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 24, 2016, 04:32:51 PM
Somewhere... There is a clinching limit, I believe not beyond 12d, I think to prevent tension perp splitting.
Pallet manufacture uses hardened gun nails which will get closer to double shear without clinching but that is not a common gun nail. They also use a technique called "spotting" where they use a nail slightly longer than the assemble thickness and shoot it together over a steel plate. The nail connects then hits the plate and deforms a bit. Again probably not something for the field just info. I'm not sure if it will help in thinking about the yield limit programming but the awc.org connections calc is using the NDS equations. ~3/8" to clinch, that seems doable.

The only reference I could find to clinching in the NDS was Sec. 11.1.6.5 which doesn't really say you can't clinch nails with a diameter larger than 0.148" but it does impose at 6 x diameter penetration into the side member for double shear connections which effectively eliminates 16D common nails for 3/4" plywood or less.  This section is also where I am coming up with the min. 3 x diameter for clinching.  In my mind you need about a 1/2" protrusion to get it to clinch, if the nail gets too large (dia.) then this dimension needs to increase.

Also with regard to clinching and  staggering the nails so that they are nailed through both front and back. It probably makes the best sense from an engineering standpoint but from the construction standpoint, you would have to nail the front, then flip the truss over, clinch the ends, nail the back, then flip the truss again and clinch the back nails. Whereas if you just nail the front you only flip once and clinch.  Thoughts?

With truss repairs any adhesives used are typically  not factored into the strength of the truss by engineers, only the fasteners are considered in the calculations.  This adds an additional margin of safety to the assembly.  The primary reasoning behind this is the fact that it is hard to inspect and monitor the proper use of an adhesives in the field.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 24, 2016, 06:56:26 PM
The front and back offset nailing including flipping the truss was how some of the old ag plans show to do it, with glue. IIRC they also called for a concrete nail, a hardened nail, so unclenched but approaching double shear. Fewer manipulations would be nice but I'd probably go back and shoot some from the other side after it is up just to feel better about it. If splitting is an issue, staples? Many small fasteners in single shear but not likely to split, sort of analogous to the metal plate connector.

I agree on field applied glue, it's the gravy but don't design around it. It does stiffen anything that was a pin connection if that matters at typical sizes/loads.

Found what I was remembering while looking up your cite, some wording has changed, this is '05, 11.1.5.5;

Quote
"Exception; Symmetric (!) double shear connections when 12d or smaller nails extend at least 3 diameters beyond the side member and are clinched, and side members are at least 3/8" thick"

Symmetric, I'm reading that as balanced nailing from both sides.

This is the '15NDS, 12.1.6.5 ;
Quote
Exception: The minimum length of penetration need not be 6d for symmetric double shear connections where nails with a diameter of .148" or smaller extend at least 3 diameters beyond the side member and are clinched, and the side members are at least 3/8" thick.

Still symmetric and clinched, unless the nails can get 6d into the far side member, then they don't need the last flop to clinch, you've gotten double shear without clinching but a slew of fasteners I'd bet.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 24, 2016, 07:49:40 PM
Its hard to say what requires more effort, double the nails or clinching.  I've thought about 6d, 7d or even 8d nails in single shear but to avoid splitting the spacing drives the nails apart and the gussets are going to get too large in my opinion.  For now I'm going to start with nails only in double shear but may add in a single shear option later.

I've got the front end working now so you can look at the input options.  It doesn't do anything yet (actually defaults to metal plates if you choose the wood option), but it gives an idea of the gusset options.

With wood gussets the web-chord joints are going to be much stiffer than with metal plates so I will probably set up the matrix analysis to consider all joints as rigid instead of pinned.  I'm actually still thinking about that and talking to other engineers with regards to pinned, semi-rigid or rigid joints with this type of construction.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 24, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
Correct me, is a .120x3" nail with 3/4" gussets unclenched in double shear?
Or, is a .120x3.25" same conditions, shot through, unclenched.
Effortwise nailing is pulling a trigger, clenching does take time. That said I think the economical way is to use the thinnest ply and count on clenching these.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 24, 2016, 09:11:22 PM
Correct me, is a .120x3" nail with 3/4" gussets unclenched in double shear?
Or, is a .120x3.25" same conditions, shot through, unclenched.
Effortwise nailing is pulling a trigger, clenching does take time. That said I think the economical way is to use the thinnest ply and count on clenching these.

For a 23/32" or 3/4" gusset I am only allowing a 16d Box (0.135x3.5) or a 20d Box (0.148x4) that way it is clenched per the NDS.  If I can't clench it I'm not going to consider it for now.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 25, 2016, 04:47:46 AM
I do agree, from my end the sideplates aren't backing out at all if things get torqued in the lift. I worry with metal plates when a lift isn't smooth.
Anecdotally, on the job I've been caught with .131x3.5" nails and 2@ 1/2" sideplates a few times. With ~1" of nail poking through you can hook the claw and make a bent tip then clench the nail driving the hooked tip across grain and back into the sideplate. That is the "dead as a doornail" clench. Nobody is going to intentionally go there though.

Am I reading "symmetrical" correctly, drive half the nails from each face?

There's an advanced wood design short course with a truss repair section coming up at VT, sometimes those are repeated at U Wash. Those rotate thru the Con Ed offerings if you ever have the time. Don Bender there is the nail doctor from his time in Brooks Labs at VT, those kids bend a lot of nails and do some serious pallet smashing  ;D.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 25, 2016, 06:05:13 AM
Yes, I like the idea of half the nails be driven from each side, rather than drive them from one side only and clenched all on one side, probably a bit more work though.

I would really like to see more testing done, comparing a nailed and glued truss to a more conventional MPC truss.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 26, 2016, 03:01:30 PM
Version 1.2.7 - 01.26.2016

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su56_800.jpg&hash=c06f7909286d4f1e2de3e8a0babd173c)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u3b08ddf6-b8be-405c-9ae6-912866e7a252
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 27, 2016, 11:17:55 PM
I've uploaded a test L-Shaped structure with a hip roof:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u8d384878-941b-4df9-a8c9-8bba849765bb

I've created both hip roof primitives with the plugin, that was the easy part.

I then placed a valley rafter with its centerline (top) inline with both roof planes.  I think I've got it right.  What I am unsure of however is the best way to terminate the framing at the intersection of the valley, lower ridge and flying hip.  Once I have a handle on how a carpenter would actually construct that junction I think I can proceed to start work on a secondary roof module for both hip and gable rafter roofs.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 28, 2016, 04:02:59 AM
I don't have time to sketch at the moment, run the major roof's hip down to the wall like normal, bob its tail at the outboard face of the wall or enough to let the next common rafter by. Set the jack opposite the valley then the ridge, then valley. What I see drawn is correct, on the backside from this view there would be another major hip buried in plane of the roof.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2016, 07:32:28 AM
One method of framing this roof configuration is to extend the lower ridge past the joint until it meets the next jack rafter, then the flying hip and valley are miter cut to meet the lower ridge.

I've created a version of the model above with this method of framing at the flying hip/valley/ridge joint:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su57_800.jpg&hash=ef092c9ce100596a20a1929d3a596d3d)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u06386a43-c138-4e90-8b2c-779fd2b63705

What is the thinking on this method of framing this particular configuration?

My other concern is the way I have the valley rafter miter cut where it meets the fascia and the corner of the building wall (top plate).  Is there a more practical way or better way of making those cuts?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2016, 08:43:15 AM
Compare Rev 2 with Rev 3:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su58_800.jpg&hash=346e10d24b4330e323f5b7a8cb9328ce)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u83ae5e44-1b19-4c09-8586-93988684289e

Rev 3 is framed per Don's instructions.

This version of Hip Roof 4 has the flying hip extending as a full hip to the exterior wall and then the lower ridge framing into it with the valley rafter framed in last.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2016, 01:43:29 PM
Rev. 5 is a slight variation of the previous roofs.  I have shifted the secondary roof over by 24" to create a T-shaped building.  The question is how to best frame the long and short valleys:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uf6d4e102-46d7-44b2-bfa2-b8ac12b6da21
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 28, 2016, 03:40:17 PM
Rev2, the ridge to jack... I'm having trouble following the load.
Rev5 I would probably make the main roof hip the support and run the other valley up to the hip, shorter beam length.

I typically double hips and valleys, the inside miter is then half on each piece, simple compound bevels. I've also run a single bevel on the valley and run that subfascia first, carrying it past the valley to the wall and then butt the adjacent sub into the first one.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2016, 07:35:32 PM
Rev2, the ridge to jack... I'm having trouble following the load.
Rev5 I would probably make the main roof hip the support and run the other valley up to the hip, shorter beam length.

I typically double hips and valleys, the inside miter is then half on each piece, simple compound bevels. I've also run a single bevel on the valley and run that subfascia first, carrying it past the valley to the wall and then butt the adjacent sub into the first one.

I've seen the double valley used in a number of roofs.  Your second sentence though I'm not quite following.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 29, 2016, 09:06:13 AM
The intersection of the supporting valley rafter, valley rafter and lower ridge I had framed incorrectly.  The corrected method is shown below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su59_800.jpg&hash=4c5708ce2c77bc744977bdbf14eff698)

Also note that the segment of the supporting valley rafter between the upper ridge and lower ridge would need to be beveled or "backed" otherwise it clashes with the sheathing.  I noticed this when I originally added the supporting valley rafter but confirmed my suspicion when perusing DeWalt's carpentry and framing handbook this morning.  I probably should have pulled this book out before beginning this study but it only confirmed everything I had managed to discover myself once I started examining the model.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 29, 2016, 08:27:18 PM
Now that I've got a gable and hip rafter roof I was thinking about adding in a dutch gable roof, but I'm a little unclear on the best method to support the end rafters.  Has anyone ever seen something like this used?

I've checked all of my carpentry and construction books and there is absolutely no reference material on traditional framing of this type of roof, online is also quite scant, any resources, framing diagrams etc... would be quite helpful.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 29, 2016, 10:06:49 PM
This is my first crack at a dutch gable roof framed with rafters:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su60_800.jpg&hash=21ce315e0338f1a540155d4e59f71723)

Without the sheathing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su61_800.jpg&hash=3a31a9e6decb96a93decd6efc6d9951e)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u060d4827-fbb5-400e-8270-0b244d958750
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 30, 2016, 04:02:17 AM
Going back to yesterday afternoon's pic, one reason I like doubling hips and valleys is the ability to easily rip a backing angle down the longth. That piece's doubler has its appropriate backing angle ripped down its length. Then when you bring in the jacks or other framing it is easier to figure out where the sheathing plane is.

On the dutch gable I suspect the commons on the main roof need to be at least doubled. Lacking that hardware I think I'd run a jack from the underside of the minor ridge/header to the plate. (I've only built this style once, it's more coastal, and it's been too long). Historically we have more jerkinheads up here, kind of the inverse.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 30, 2016, 12:42:34 PM
Doubling of the last common rafter is pretty much a given.  I can't seem to find many framing details on a dutch gable roof online.  For a large roof with a low pitch the span of the ledger holding up the end jack rafters would potentially become an issue, this member would need to be sized accordingly if not somehow supported mid span or by some other means.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 30, 2016, 12:59:21 PM
Dutch Gable Rev. 2:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u32c4c79d-603a-4363-99db-df726b281151

Same as previous except for doubled up common rafters at dutch gable.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 30, 2016, 04:38:23 PM
Dutch Gable Rev. 3:

Doubled up gable common rafters with the dutch ridge/ledger is sandwiched between them. Found a paper by Larry Haun, Mar. 1995 "Framing a Dutch Roof" that was published in Fine Homebuilding magazine, that describes a very similar method of framing.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FDUTCH_GABLE1.jpg&hash=4b31f8d5b714049e7480f389c6f686a4)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ude19cd3c-e059-42e0-8e7d-2b0b6b0852a8

Disregard the common rafter sizes they are undersized but look at the method of sandwiching the dutch ridge/ledger between the last common rafters. I would probably also install some blocking between the double gable common rafters. I'm also not showing all of the ceiling joists and bird blocking etc...

If the roof gets large enough then one could go to a double ply dutch ridge, or even a deeper LVL member, assuming there is no internal support available from internal walls.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 30, 2016, 06:49:43 PM
I like that [cool]
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 30, 2016, 08:21:57 PM
I think I'm ready to add the dutch gable into the plugin.  It's only slightly more complicated than the hip roof.

I've also realized that for hip roofs I need an option to set the depth of the hip rafters since they are often larger members than the common or jack rafters.

Here is the new icon for secondary roofs:

This category will contain the following items:

- Gable Roof Minor
- Hip Roof Minor
- Dutch Gable Roof Minor
- Gable Dormer
- Hip Dormer
- Shed Dormer
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 31, 2016, 03:53:33 AM
Can't remember if it's come up or if there is anything other than operator knowledge required, watch the birdsmouth on the hip over the wall, it needs to stay over support, the birdsmouths on everything are limited to <1/4 member depth.

The passing subfascia detail on the inside corner;
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u13eb2420-daf2-4d3b-bd87-8297d6fd88ce
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 31, 2016, 10:48:46 AM
I still need to add in a warning about the <1/4 rule.  I'm assuming birdsmouth cuts of the hip rafter and the valley rafters both need to stay over the support, I need to take a look at that.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 31, 2016, 04:48:50 PM
Yes, full bearing. You can run a dragon beam or a header to support the hip in some times of trouble.

BTW, if you bob the tail the 1/4 depth rule vaporizes, then you can scab on a 2x tail, 2/3 inboard 1/3 extended. This can get you out of some tight spots.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 31, 2016, 07:53:24 PM
Yes, full bearing. You can run a dragon beam or a header to support the hip in some times of trouble.

BTW, if you bob the tail the 1/4 depth rule vaporizes, then you can scab on a 2x tail, 2/3 inboard 1/3 extended. This can get you out of some tight spots.

Does the 1/4 rule really make sense?  A 2x10 rafter requires a 6.94" depth remaining, whereas a 2x4 extending as the overhang that has no birdsmouth cut would pass?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 01, 2016, 12:28:49 AM
edited to southern pc;

Bless their pea pickin hearts, it doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I've been to the top of the ladder with awc before this last code cycle but the porch light has not yet glimmered.

Dimensionally this is short but it's roughly how we've bumped a dormer out before.
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u926f7220-73e9-424c-82bd-6e44545b7b52

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/getpubliccontent?contentId=3e141c96-ae21-41a6-829a-e737060597e7)

Doodling some more... this is really rough but shows a jerkinhead or clipped gable
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ufe2a9943-aeee-4457-bbe5-6c4971ce5ee5

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/getpubliccontent?contentId=03a2df24-d30b-4a09-b82a-180c1450f2ab)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 02, 2016, 12:35:40 AM
The jerkinhead or half hip is yet another roof type that I need to add. I will be studying your jerkinhead model below.  Interesting how the fascia and rake blend into each other.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 02, 2016, 12:37:50 AM
Version 1.2.8 - 02.02.2015
- Added ceiling joist option for Shed Rafter Roofs.
- New submenu item and toolbar icon added for secondary (minor) roofs.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u972818f0-96f0-4f85-9781-087a2db95199

I used this option to create a monitor style roof line but it can also be used for porch roofs, carports etc...  I still need to add a standard shed roof with and upper and lower birdsmouth cut.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 02, 2016, 03:48:28 PM
More "Fun with Roofs".

This roof was generated by first creating a hip roof primitive then deleting all but 3 components which were then copied and rotated into place for the lower roof hip corner.  The shed roof /w ledger component was created with one primitive and then copied and rotated into place.  Overall a fairly painless process now that I am somewhat familiar with navigating my way around SketchUp.  The fascia required a couple of trims.

The pyramid at the top required no manual intervention. Approximately 10-15 minutes of work for a fairly substantial roof.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ue55bf7ab-c669-4cd7-8f05-305dee4e2519
Title: Fun with Roofs
Post by: Medeek on February 03, 2016, 07:11:15 PM
Testing the real world application of the Medeek Truss Plugin.  This model combines a double fink truss, raised heel fink truss, monopitch truss and shed roof with ledger.  While creating the shed roof special attention to the birdsmouth cut was required to ensure that the fascia height of the rafters and trusses lined up.  Also note the use of the raised heel type truss on the upper roof portion.  Structural outlookers were specified for all gable overhangs.

5:12 pitch roofs with rafters and trusses 24" o/c.  I did not apply a level cut to the rafter overhangs but that would probably be a given.  Span of the double fink is 48 feet with 2x6 top and bottom chords.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su64_800.jpg&hash=73a4da1da8248e1feec2dd552c011e27)

Revision 2 shows the 2x6 framed walls with a thickened edge monolithic slab on grade foundation.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su65_800.jpg&hash=35f8d387bb8b53975b497c8d04b3f754)

View models here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u98040448-af54-4d79-af30-a3aefca9b941

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ud8f4c186-1836-4d16-928a-2ba8c10c99a9

If anyone has some real world applications using the plugin that they are willing to share I would be very interested to see how it is being used and it would also give me some direction for further development and improvements.
Title: Balloon Framing vs. Platform Framing
Post by: Medeek on February 04, 2016, 08:35:32 AM
I've ran into this structural question before, where you have a stairway next to an exterior wall.  My first thought is to call out a balloon framed wall up to the 2nd story top plate(s) but then that makes the rim board and double top plate of the first story discontinuous. What is the preferred solution or how have you seen this done in similar circumstances.

Here is a quick mock up in SketchUp to better explain what the two options are:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FNAMATAME1.jpg&hash=90273fd5af3ee9106a0005280a4fab0a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FNAMATAME2.jpg&hash=dc0bdca924e826cd50c4b6fc7459145c)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uf979b67e-2755-4981-9bfc-06d20b64d313
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 04, 2016, 07:30:46 PM
WFCM Fig 2.1k Floor Diaphragm opening limits
Exterior walls adjacent to the opening shall be framed using full height studs where the opening is less than 2' from the exterior wall.

Max opening is 12' or <50% of floor length.
That is from the engineered section, the prescriptive section is silent other than the 12'/50% rule but the fig shows stairs against the exterior wall, platform framed with a double rim, which is how it is normally but incorrectly framed. Those drawings have not been updated in at least 40 years, I remember the prescriptive set from 2nd year drafting. I'll let them know, it'll take till cycle after next if they agree, which I suspect they will.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 04, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
I'm familiar with Figure 2.1k and the 12'/50% rule but to be honest I never actually noticed the comment to the right of it, funny how that is.  I've run into this same issue before on some of my own garage designs and I've mostly seen it platform framed.  In some situations I've called out that it be balloon framed but I've noticed some opposition from local contractors on this.

I've spoken with a number of other engineers today on the subject and the opinions are about equally split between the two options.

If I am to platform frame it I would probably do something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FSTAIRWAY_RIM_JOIST_DETAIL.jpg&hash=c7f608874be916391e2db428eb9089e2)

Essentially creating a box beam that can resist the lateral out-of-plane loads on the wall (wind).  The problem is  if the instructions are not completely followed and a splice is inserted into plates, rim or LVL where is should not be, proper construction is critical.

If one does balloon frame this section of wall it is advisable to block and strap inline with the rim joist to preserve the continuity but there is some disagreement on the effectiveness of this method.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 05, 2016, 04:01:17 AM
I've been trying to recall but can only remember the situation once. I had attic trusses above, so... I created a hinge there. To box inside and out it does have basically the detail you drew. Have you run the numbers in flatwise bending @12', say with 2x8 sizes? It may be a non issue.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 05, 2016, 10:37:14 AM
I added the  porch roof using the hip roof and shed roof primitives.  I'm wondering if it might not be worthwhile to add in a feature to create this type of combination roof automatically.  Shed Roof w/ ledger & hip ends.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FNAMATAME3.jpg&hash=90cfe73b5ce990d5d2a505a3f63d85d0)

View updated model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uf979b67e-2755-4981-9bfc-06d20b64d313

Note, how close the ledger is to the rim joist.  The porch roof diaphragm will actually stiffen up the region of the wall where the stairway is to some extent, in general the use of a "wind beam" is probably advisable if platform framing is used and a quick check of the numbers should be done.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 05, 2016, 01:17:37 PM
I probably should have checked the numbers first.  Given the high wind loads in our area (155 mph ult.) a 3-1/2 x 9-1/2 PSL loaded in the weak axis will deflect almost a full inch with a clear span of 10'-10" and a trib. length of 9'.  However, a 5-1/4" beam will pass with flying colors, so I've updated my detail to:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FSTAIRWAY_RIM_JOIST_DETAIL_REV2.jpg&hash=76d0dd0b8a70c6f59586e5635ce5efb4)

The eccentricity is small enough that I think it makes sense to just sandwich them together and make sure they act as one unit.  I still like the idea of disallowing any splices in the members in this region of the wall and will keep my notes specifying that.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 05, 2016, 04:34:24 PM
I had a brain fart on a job with a 2 story cathedraled greatroom. I had gone >18' tall with 2x6's in the exterior wall when an engineer friend dropped by and caught it.  Not that it was part of my plan but the saving grace was the hipped porch roof and ceiling. If the porch carry beam is built up I prefer to keep post spacings under 8' so that 16' lumber can weave that beam together, that is also the prescriptive limit for deck posts in awc's DA6.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 07, 2016, 01:17:40 AM
Started the manual as a MS Word document however that did't work so well for hyperlinks.  Starting over with an html manual page:

http://design.medeek.com/support/trusspluginmanual/mainpage.html

Couple of pages up, only about 25 more to go...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 12, 2016, 10:02:43 PM
Version 1.2.9 - 02.12.2015
- Added ceiling joist option for Shed Rafter Roofs.
- Initial menu now defaults to last picked option of session for that sub-menu item.

A typical application might be a clerestory roof with a upper shed roof and lower shed roof with a ledger board:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su66_800.jpg&hash=3ab67743b6ac1beaa26d74e263996986)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u0b2dd5bc-605d-467c-a6bb-449bb54e76e6 (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u0b2dd5bc-605d-467c-a6bb-449bb54e76e6)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 13, 2016, 04:29:03 AM
LOL. lose the cj's and gable the upper and you just drew my house.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 13, 2016, 10:37:07 AM
LOL. lose the cj's and gable the upper and you just drew my house.

Upper roof rafter or truss?  Beam or ridgeboard?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 13, 2016, 02:59:23 PM
Upper is ridgebeam/ common rafter 2x10's on 2' 4/12, lower is shed off a ledger same stock and pitch. 28x36' in 14x36' modules, 3 clerestoy windows (bedroom, stairway wrapping woodstove alcove, and office), they were going to be horizontal sliders till I felt the heat rolling up that south facing roof and made them fixed. Lower front is 2 sets of French doors flanked by 2 6'wide horizontal sliders. There is the same window in the east and west ends and east downstairs bedroom in the 2 story section with another above in the upper bedroom. I can blow doors out any of those openings but likely never will. It could also be expanded as a monitor with a matching shed on the back (with window changes). It started as a HS drafting project, took me a semester, Mr Mac kept copies of the codebook in the front of the class and part of our grade was to detail to code. It was a passive solar design, I now call it solar tempered as we never drop the cellular blinds and I didn't put in the insulated shoji on that lower south wall. Passive solar takes active people, but it does warm up the dark tile floor and has decent overhang shading in summer. I finished drawing it for construction about 10 years later.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 14, 2016, 05:23:40 AM
Version 1.3.0 - 02.14.2016
- Added tail bearing truss type, configurations: (Fink).
- Metric input enabled for tail bearing truss type.
- Advanced options enabled for tail bearing truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2Ftailbearingtruss1.jpg&hash=e2623e23dc4ea3b51dc4a665d2cfee4b)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u704b9d92-bd38-4895-b71b-19691f31cca7

I have shown 3 configurations of the same roof to display the differences with non-structural vs. structural outlookers (horz. & vert.).  I am not exactly sure how to treat the gable end truss for this truss type since I have never dealt with this type of truss before.  Any sample outputs showing the gable end truss with a dropped top chord for a tail bearing truss would be very helpful.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 14, 2016, 03:02:28 PM
I am currently investigating the best method to construct the gable end wall and truss with a tail bearing truss.  Show below are 3 different possible configurations:

1.) Structural Outlookers (Vertical)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su68_800.jpg&hash=83827ae9d0fc6e6c761f1126e066a8cc)
2.) Non-Structural Outlookers (Horizontal)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su69_800.jpg&hash=4969a3be79ddede5c968746d71bd6eda)
3.) Structural Outlookers (Horizontal)

This is just one possible method of framing the gable end wall into the gable truss with a 2x4 outlooker.  Option 3 shown above is somewhat of a question, not sure how that heel joint would come together.

View the model here to analyze the different configurations:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u75c42456-c8e5-4002-bc93-779860f8dc61 (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u75c42456-c8e5-4002-bc93-779860f8dc61)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 14, 2016, 05:18:55 PM
Usually a 3.5" dropped gable truss is standard here, so #1. I've never seen our plants do anything other than spring from plate height no matter what the truss configuration, even a scissor. Part of my complaint with the current engineering handoff point, bracing is up to the engineer of record, generally non existant in residential. I would probably balloon frame that wall and attach a ceiling ledger in practice. That ledger is your effective stud height for lateral. What you have drawn would be difficult to frame and have plane in with the common trusses correctly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 14, 2016, 05:58:29 PM
In a nutshell then your method would be to balloon frame the wall at the gable ends and attach a ledger for the ceiling:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su70_800.jpg&hash=10d5e67a5dd5e8eb52e7e9beee5a2d2f)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ub1aa30d4-a7c3-4320-8bc4-03fd128b5913

I agree that a partially sloping wall gets complicated to frame.  From an engineering standpoint the balloon framed wall is the strongest option.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 14, 2016, 08:10:58 PM
Exactly, that's it. I've temporarily slid the truss over, temp screw the top plate to it 3.5" down, build the wall and then slide the truss back and lookout, et.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 14, 2016, 10:38:23 PM
So you wouldn't construct the gable wall on the ground then tip it up into place?  I like the idea of using the truss to accurately set your top plate location, that makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 15, 2016, 03:50:01 AM
2 things, if I trust the truss to be right on I'll loft the wall on the floor. Second, when a wall gets tall and you only have a couple of people as it goes up it can flip back over you, if in doubt on either of those I'll build it a stick at a time.

Sorry on the KS, there are sure a lot of things I'd like to do if it weren't for the day to day, but the grind keeps me young and handsome  ::)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 16, 2016, 12:56:23 AM
Version 1.3.1 - 02.15.2016
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Triple & Quad Fink) truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su71_800.jpg&hash=08a489047163c587115978f355945654)
Triple Fink @ 70' w/ 2x6 chords
Quad Fink @ 80' w/ 2x6 chords

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u2b57ed6d-9f1f-47c4-9e09-5489940c94b2
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 16, 2016, 03:59:47 AM
I've been looking at a number of garage designs recently that employ an attic or storage truss.  I'm finding that a lot of them tend to use raised heels to allow for more head room while having a lower roof pitch (ie. 6/12 - 8/12).  I'm thinking about adding in raised heels for the attic truss type in the plugin.

A quick mock up would look something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su72_800.jpg&hash=96957599a79e9c6db8cdb340161f4e00)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u208d64e3-ddcf-4923-8dfb-d507185fa663

Ignore the unbalance in the panel lengths, in practice and in the plugin they will be properly balanced.

What I do have a question on is the use of a top chord splice as shown in the above image so that the overhangs do not have to be as deep as the top chord in the non-triangulated region of the truss.  I have never seen a splice used on a attic truss with a raised heel, I don't see why it can't be done but it is always nice to have a confirmation that someone else is doing this sort of thing in practice.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 16, 2016, 11:55:58 PM
Version 1.3.1 - 02.17.2016

I've also addressed a number of bugs for rafter roofs when metric units are being used. I highly recommend everyone download the latest version, especially if you are using metric units.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on February 19, 2016, 10:35:51 PM
Just purchased and installed the plugin.  Man, it rocks!  I'm still designing my 16x28 1.5 story cabin with vaulted ceiling and appreciate the ability to generate and look at different scissor truss options.  Thanks for all the effort you've put into this.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 20, 2016, 10:40:47 AM
I'm glad to hear that it is being put to use.  Post a picture or two once you've got your geometry where you want it.  I would love to see how it is actually being used.  I've had to take a break for a few days but I will be back to it probably next week and try to add in the raised heel with attic and scissor trusses.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 21, 2016, 01:23:55 AM
Started to code in the dual pitch truss, the top chords, king post and bottom chord are there just need to add some webs:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su73_800.jpg&hash=8b8ab7d7cb5f814204de81d9646a8503)

Just an FYI, my previous post in Nov. had a sign switched in the last step of the derivation for Span 1, corrected in the plugin to a minus sign and everything is comes out perfect.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on February 22, 2016, 03:57:35 PM
I'm glad to hear that it is being put to use.  Post a picture or two once you've got your geometry where you want it.  I would love to see how it is actually being used.  I've had to take a break for a few days but I will be back to it probably next week and try to add in the raised heel with attic and scissor trusses.

Oooh, that's exactly what I'm looking for, I think.  A raised heel scissor truss.  In the Copper River basin of Alaska it can get pretty cold in the winter, so I'm looking for at least R-38 in the ceiling.  My Plan A is to construct a structural ridge beam and support it with walls and columns.  Scissor trusses can give the same vaulted ceiling but be a lot easier to construct than hoisting a ridge beam 20' up.  I did a mockup of the geometry I'm looking at and will post a screenshot of it tonight.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 22, 2016, 04:11:57 PM
Here is a Dual Pitch 2/2 - 3/3 truss with a 12:12 pitch and a 4:12 pitch.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su74_800.jpg&hash=8c8bd032cb1e59dca0a86c2d421c236c)

Still working on the gable end trusses and the advanced options involving structural outlookers.

I will be looking at raised heel scissor trusses next, those sound challenging and interesting.  Please post or send me examples of any raised heel scissor truss examples or shop drawings.  The combined pitches of the top and bottom chord with a wedge, slider or vertical web and strut will require some serious calculations and ample logic.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on February 22, 2016, 07:22:20 PM
Here we go...

Truss on the left is Medeek-generated based on the following (defaults otherwise):
Scissor Truss, 16' out to out span
Scissor 4/4
Top chord pitch: 12
Bottom chord pitch: 8
Overhang 24 L/R
24" spacing

Truss on the right is the geometry I'm looking for.  Is this a Scissor 6/6?  Raised heel scissor truss, 12/12 TC, 8/12 BC, 10" raise on the heel.  It would be so awesome if your plugin could generate this.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo655%2FChugiakTinkerer%2F20016%2F201601%2FTruss_Ideas_zpsals10ipm.png&hash=43b1bf9047558f90b35b94f4d26ec58b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 22, 2016, 07:38:07 PM
I'm trying to close out a local job right now, but as soon as I get it done I will look into the scissor you've described below.  Yes, I would call that a 6/6 Scissor, and with that much triangulation in that short of a span you should be good for some serious snow loads.  Actually with that steep of pitch you realistically shouldn't have that much snow load, especially if coupled with a metal roof, but its Alaska...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 23, 2016, 03:09:57 AM
Version 1.3.2 - 02.23.2016
- Added Dualpitch truss type, configurations: (2/2-3/3).
- Metric input enabled for dualpitch truss type.
- Advanced options enabled for dualpitch truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su75_800.jpg&hash=08152e2e94d24b4aca1f0c15f7614ae6)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u9b6a5e53-76c4-4c9b-bce3-aaa8ffba4c36
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 24, 2016, 08:45:27 PM
Mono Cathedral trusses with heel wedge:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su76_800.jpg&hash=d10e09fab0314ee27baa3ee3b6c87af5)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u5c030ac2-f2e4-4c8d-8d9b-67bfa780ee7f
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 25, 2016, 09:15:35 AM
A quick study of the general shape and layout of a 6/6 bowstring truss with different radii:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2FMISC%2FBOWSTRING1.jpg&hash=efc1f36f42086a78992ba24f4f4e2b9b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 28, 2016, 12:00:08 AM
Version 1.3.3 - 02.28.2016
- Added Bowstring truss type, configurations: (6/6).
- Metric input enabled for bowstring truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su77_800.jpg&hash=4c916815e67d65a99725c710bbb1131f)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=udee2767c-3da1-40b9-8d07-9e1e36989d4a

I'm not sure how common place this truss type is anymore so I will add the advanced options at a later date if requested by a user.  I can also add in other configurations with more panels if needed (ie. 8/8, 10/10).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 28, 2016, 02:03:44 PM
Added Bowstring truss type, configurations: (8/8).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su78_800.jpg&hash=c3ce6a8ec95d5ef150f4ab2d7c064099)

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 28, 2016, 11:37:41 PM
28' Bow Barrel Truss (8/8) study.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su79_800.jpg&hash=d1400ff2e97651d74c7d0e593a456b21)

View model here:

Gable end trusses for this type are a bit of a question right now.  I can add this one into the plugin if there is some call for it, but I may hold off until a request is made since the code will be somewhat tedious with all the separate members that make up the top and bottom chords.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 02, 2016, 05:47:46 PM
Version 1.3.4 - 03.02.2016
- Corrected a bug in the metric unit template module.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 03, 2016, 03:54:13 AM
We don't have many bowstrings around here but I was under a steel one yesterday in the local auto shop ~60' span with 2 rows of posts inside. It's been a long time but there was a nice old wooden one on the state fairgrounds in Raleigh that was a design from their ag college.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 04, 2016, 07:27:39 PM

Version 1.3.5 - 03.04.2016
Added Bow Barrel truss type, configurations: (8/8).
Metric input enabled for bow barrel truss type.
Corrected a bug with the webs of the bowstring truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su80_800.jpg&hash=58808296afdb296c9c9880e185f11336)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u754b5fc3-c3ea-48cb-9f13-24c92ae39d97

Gable end option is also available (not shown in image above for clarity) for this truss type.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 05, 2016, 01:19:27 AM
I find the bow barrel truss very interesting.  Its very similar to a flat truss in a lot of respects but then you essentially create pitch breaks at all the panel points and add some camber to it.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12828943_1277725908908068_139963240902266978_o.jpg)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uf39ab29a-4d1b-458f-b9cb-b1bf882b9774
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 05, 2016, 11:39:41 PM
I'm thinking the next thing I might tackle is an octagonal rafter roof. Something along these lines:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbebuilders.com%2Foctagon%2Foctagon_top_front.jpg&hash=18c0f09c231d1e84d377632d15519660)

My time allotted to work on the plugin is very limited right now so I'm trying to decide if this would be something of interest for current and potential users of the plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 06, 2016, 03:43:58 AM
The only roofs I've done like that were over bay windows, they are often not a true octagon depending on the width of the center window which may be a wider side with 45 degree wings flanking it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 06, 2016, 04:12:47 AM
A couple of other people have commented in a similar manner.  One user would like to see a half octagon.  I can also see where a bay window would utilize this type of roof framing but it might extend over the main roof.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 06, 2016, 04:14:14 AM
Version 1.3.6 - 03.06.2016
- Added Double Howe and Triple Howe common truss types.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Double & Triple Howe) truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su81_800.jpg&hash=78b6b0514fd8b94a736d0d83e13bdab0)

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 06, 2016, 12:42:23 PM
Nine different truss profiles currently available within the Medeek Truss Plugin:
- Common
- Attic
- Monopitch
- Scissor
- Tail Bearing
- Dual Pitch
- Bowstring
- Bow Barrel
- Floor (System 42)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FTRUSS_YARD1.jpg&hash=04a83649549fc937d7ddd2f07350a4b3)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ue9b30427-93a7-45c9-abdd-e35b18cac1de

Are there any truss types I am missing that you would like to see added to the plugin?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 06, 2016, 10:33:10 PM
Version 1.3.7 - 03.06.2016
- Added Soffit Cut within Advanced Options for common fink truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su82_800.jpg&hash=55176673c36f87b9f24c3d29a830920d)

After I'm certain that this feature is robust I will add it to all other truss types and rafter roofs.  For now it only applies to roofs that use a common fink truss (non-raised heel).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 07, 2016, 01:13:33 AM
Here is one way to frame an octagonal roof.  The basic hip elements were first created with the plugin.  This is a study of this type of roof to see what is required to add it into the plugin:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su83_800.jpg&hash=32756f9f5a29e3abff00795e5603af8a)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su84_800.jpg&hash=c454a78f472e89c3b2c8440599794f65)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u27fa9eb4-683a-4d0e-b77c-17427a401b6b (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u27fa9eb4-683a-4d0e-b77c-17427a401b6b)

Another method would be to use an 8 faceted center block.  Dewalt's framing book goes into some alternative methods in some detail.  I prefer the method I have shown above because it is much easier to extrapolate the framing method to include elongated octagonal roofs.  8 common rafters and 8 hip rafters come together at the peak, seems like it would be a real pain to try and fasten these at the peak, perhaps someone could enlighten me on how a carpenter would actually put this together.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 07, 2016, 01:42:34 AM
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 07, 2016, 04:23:26 AM
A large post is one way I've seen. Another, I would probably bring in 4 principle hips then header between those as soon as I can get connection room. Set the next 4 hips at correct elevation onto the headers and if needed drop down and header again for the commons.

At some point I'll probably need to do a very steep octagon spire with kickouts at the base to match the 4 Richardsonians on the courthouse in town, those turrets are probably the most common application of a full octagon. I'll try to dig up a shot.

Those hips fail depth of cut.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 07, 2016, 04:29:52 PM
These are the octagon turrets I was thinking of;
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2F1908.jpg&hash=f240a66dab5885414ff98ed7570da9c3)
The framing in those has held up for over a century... amazingly.

This is a doodle I did awhile back for a gazebo on the lot where the tree is;
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fgazeboframe.jpg&hash=211c734582f31c75fbf9873dea1d5034)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 08, 2016, 06:59:32 PM
Very cool stuff.  Your method of using the header makes good sense.  This aligns with the alternative method described in the Dewalt book I have on framing.

Here is a similar application with headers for a conical roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contractortalk.com%2Fattachments%2Ff14%2F28451d1265404172-conical-roof-framing-img_3575.jpg&hash=c12d6a5eb8d4c152921b3ce97f2e1d07)

Searching on the internet found some examples of framing it with all 16 member coming the peak, I guess it is not impossible.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gyframing.com%2FSiteImages%2FDSCI0003.JPG&hash=7e729125f2f7992d0c278c2354137ed6)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bxW74U81Sa4/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 10, 2016, 01:38:17 PM
Version 1.3.8 - 03.10.2016
- Added wireframe (temporary) graphics to the truss positioning tool.
- Added Boise Cascade BCI® I-joists: 4500, 5000, 6000, 6500, 60, 90.
- Rim joist option enabled for BCI floor joists.
- Removed drop down list for all overhang lengths (truss & rafter roofs). Overhangs are now users inserted values.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su86_800.jpg&hash=78427ac7e8e63b8da93a8d45122786bd)

The screenshot above shows the wireframe that is displayed for common truss types.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 12, 2016, 02:34:42 AM
This is a study of hip roof framing where unequal pitches meet at the hip (90 deg. to each other). In this case the birdsmouth cut is 3.5" for all jack and common rafters. The hip rafter is dropped and off center so that it lines up with the roof planes.

I assumed that the governing design criteria was that the sub-fascia line up hence the steeper pitch roof has a smaller overhang.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su87_800.jpg&hash=f5982cdc260509fa26ac4fa4c233f02b)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ue065475f-8b68-4434-a933-776055f50175

I haven't gone through and created the calculations yet for the plugin but the one thing that jumped out at me was the necessity to offset the hip rafter slightly from the hip centerline when a dropped hip rafter is employed.  Please review the model and let me know if there are any problems with the way this comes together.
Title: Unequal Pitches Hip Roof Framing
Post by: Medeek on March 12, 2016, 03:13:59 PM
Another study of hip roof framing where unequal pitches meet at the hip. The birdsmouth cut is 3.5" for all jack and common rafters. The hip rafter is dropped and off center so that it lines up with the roof planes. The hip roof combines a 12:12 pitch with a 6:12 pitch.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su88_800.jpg&hash=1d415ec6f151d74ede7bfed608a3e2c0)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uc12480ec-9330-464b-93eb-56bc73878207
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 12, 2016, 06:09:27 PM
Try keeping the overhang widths equal by allowing the hip to leave the corner.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 12, 2016, 10:18:02 PM
Never thought of that one.  Another option is to have the same overhang but the fascia don't line up, however that does not seem as common.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 14, 2016, 08:37:16 PM
Version 1.3.9 - 03.14.2016
- Out-to-out span of trusses in the trial version are now limited to a range of: 16 ft. (5m) - 32 ft. (9m).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 15, 2016, 03:58:11 PM
Version 1.4.0 - 03.15.2016
- Added LP Solidstart® I-joists: 450, 530, 18, 36, 56.
- Rim joist option enabled for LPI floor joists.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 16, 2016, 10:20:38 PM
Version 1.4.1 - 03.16.2016
- Added Soffit Cut within Advanced Options for Gable Roof and Gable Roof w/ GLB.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 16, 2016, 11:44:17 PM
Coming up on the 6 month anniversary of the plugin (April 7).  I'm pretty excited with the amount of work I've been able to do on it.  I would really like to get to some more big items on the list like secondary roofs and dormers but that will take a few days of uninterrupted programming which is really hard to come by at the moment.  Lately, I have been addressing mostly minor items that I can knock out in a a couple of hours.  I usually don't start into a big project unless I think I can complete it in one go since it is really hard to partially complete it and then try to jump back into it at a later date.  The higher the complexity the more this holds true.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 18, 2016, 02:36:56 AM
I've been considering transition trusses and what it might take to add them into the plugin.  Below is a quick study of this type of roof.  I am curious to know if a common trusses is butted up next to a transition truss for sheathing purposes.  Also notice the scissor transition, this situation is a little complicated, not exactly sure how to deal with it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su89_800.jpg&hash=d37b287e54bdbf466c764f31ab2a6e46)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ue1772e6a-eb97-4775-b9f8-d12e3e134ba3

For clarity I have removed all of the common trusses in the image below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su91_800.jpg&hash=93f59ca84e19f0b01d698770f393652c)

One question I don't have an answer for yet is what to do if the gable end needs structural outlookers?  Has anyone ever seen a transition truss with a dropped top chord?

I think it would look something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su94_800.jpg&hash=659fb359d6230714a54a82dec20481a7)

however I think the framing at the lower peak would be more correct if the top chord members abut like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su95_800.jpg&hash=ea1b5a8bb02ea500489dd1045db686e6)
Title: Unequal Pitches Hip Roof Framing - Revisited
Post by: Medeek on March 18, 2016, 12:40:09 PM
This is a re-visit of the unequal pitch hip roof a few days back.  Larry Belk, an experienced architect whose advice I highly regard, has suggested that an alternative way to handle this type of roof is to raise the top plate and thereby allow the overhang to remain constant around the roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su90_800.jpg&hash=71c491305abf9d457fac32e212cd4948)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u24f241c6-d493-45cb-9506-d025d7ebd795

Compare with hip roof 7:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su88_800.jpg&hash=1d415ec6f151d74ede7bfed608a3e2c0)

and model:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uc12480ec-9330-464b-93eb-56bc73878207

A few things pop out at me here.
First the raised top plate method allows the constant overhang with the continuous fascia, overall this is more aesthetically pleasing.
Second the hip rafter is no longer at the corner but is jogged in some amount onto the higher wall.
Third, the higher wall actually is protruding through the sheathing of the lower pitched roof in the model.  Obviously the higher wall needs to be trimmed back some to deal with this.

For the plugin I think I will probably go with option 1 above initially but at some point it would be good to have a checkbox that allows one to choose either of these two options, the code is going to get ugly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 19, 2016, 03:13:42 AM
Bingo, that's it, often stacking another plate or two and drifting out of the corner will do it. That is where I draw it from the gutter line and work "backwards". Equal overhangs and level fascia is the normal condition, if we do it right they don't see the heartburn  :D.

I'm working on a 3/12 wrap around porch, 2x8's already heavily birdsmouthed due to elevation tightness at the 2nd floor windows. The bird on the 2x12 hips is going to be huge, way too far inboard of the bearing with the heel of that notch... I'll need to land on or at a diagonal beam and then continue on. Hips are interesting.

I've never done transition trusses. I've never seen a scissor gable truss done correctly as yours is, generally they incorrectly have a level bottom. I suspect you need a vertical leg down to the narrower wall and then run up at the smaller scissor pitches, a real sawtooth of a truss, good luck getting good bearing and alignment everywhere in the field though  ??? As for packing a common against a transition, if it is just for a ceiling nailer, let the builder apply a 2x4 to the transition truss when he is detailing out the bracing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 19, 2016, 05:41:05 AM
Hip roofs are quite the head scratchers.  Its hard enough trying to figure out the math I can only imagine actually trying to build these things.  A couple other people I have consulted with basically said the same thing about the common against the transition, just scab on a nailer and then apply sheathing etc...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 19, 2016, 05:43:54 AM
Version 1.4.2 - 03.19.2016
- Added energy/raised heels for attic trusses (1 variant: vertical w/ strut).
- Addressed some minor usability issues with the attic truss menu and options.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su92_800.jpg&hash=da9b4f9184aef2ff9e8be8da82a40d27)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u4f64fd8b-160f-49ce-815d-a66991527cdb (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u4f64fd8b-160f-49ce-815d-a66991527cdb)

I've had quite a few people asking for this update so stayed up most of the night and knocked it out.  Note, that the raised heel option is currently limited to attic trusses with a span of 24 ft. or greater.  The reason for this is the way my logic currently works with spliced top chords.  If this becomes an issue I will spend some more time on it to encompass attic trusses with a lesser span.  I still do not have the gable truss, metric input or structural outlookers for this truss type, yet more items for the "todo" list.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 19, 2016, 06:28:52 PM
Thinking about dormers today and attic trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su93_800.jpg&hash=6bc629673489996c32bdc2675f0080e1)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ud50cb83e-54fc-42b0-9b57-0a5691b1c678

2-ply girder trusses on each side of the dormer with ladder framing between.  I haven't bothered to show all of the main floor framing geometry (doors, windows, stairs etc...)  My question is what would be the best route for the infill framing above the dormers.

1.)  Ladder frame perpendicular to trusses.
2.)  Install a ridgeboard hangered between the girder trusses and a lower header and install rafters parallel to the trusses?

Note that the manual creation of the dormers took about an hour whereas the attic truss main roof and dormer roof were created with the plugin and only took about 5-10 minutes.  A dormer routine would be useful.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 20, 2016, 04:53:58 AM
I would do #2 with a plumb 2 ply header, although I don't see enough meat on the girder trusses to attach to  ??? ... I'd probably fill the truss area with deadwood and plate with ply then attach the header hangers. Seek other advice.

I'm not sure if we've talked about it, as the "hat" gets wider on a 2 piece truss that level deck needs permanent lateral bracing as well. The only collapse I've seen was in a church where that level got quite wide, and then being unbraced, twisted and collapsed. Dr Woeste wrote an article on that in JLC, I think in the 90's. With all the dormers' folded plates it isn't happening here, just a FYI.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 20, 2016, 06:00:37 AM
I'm not sure if we've talked about it, as the "hat" gets wider on a 2 piece truss that level deck needs permanent lateral bracing as well. The only collapse I've seen was in a church where that level got quite wide, and then being unbraced, twisted and collapsed. Dr Woeste wrote an article on that in JLC, I think in the 90's. With all the dormers' folded plates it isn't happening here, just a FYI.

I'm assuming you are describing the continuous lateral bracing (CLR) between the piggyback truss and the main attic truss?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%3A%2F%2Fhitec.ca%2Fimages%2FpiggyBack.gif&hash=0c78afbe1e78abe377648d667c34cc61)

I have not shown all of the bracing, but you will note that the attic truss created by the plugin leaves a 1.5" gap between the trusses for this bracing requirement.

A couple years ago I helped on a similar design but I did not get any pictures of the roof framing, I'll have to get back out there and take a look at how we framed up those roof sections between the girder trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fgallery%2FH5236_UTAH_2014%2FIMG_0621_800.jpg&hash=6e31af9e53a725951a7731f5cf8fd3c6)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 20, 2016, 10:39:37 AM
A basic algorithm to convert a common gable truss into a transition truss should not be to much problem.  However, to make it handle all cases would become difficult if you include raised energy heels, drop top chords and scissor trusses in the mix.  Consider the two examples below:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 20, 2016, 08:32:51 PM
Version 1.4.3 - 03.20.2016
- Added Scissor truss type, configuration: (6/6).
- Added energy/raised heels for scissor trusses (2 variants: wedge and vertical w/ strut).
- Addressed some minor usability issues with the scissor truss menu and options.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su96_800.jpg&hash=c01e5fffc995834693c67e35552740fc)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u8ca4bf44-f28a-481e-8c1e-b53de30e3696
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 21, 2016, 04:32:31 AM
Polynesian 4/4 truss is working:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su97_800.jpg&hash=12893670a661139989fa72b31d913b42)

However, I haven't released this latest update yet, I still need to enable gable end trusses and advanced options for this truss type before it is ready for prime time.

The inputs are similar to all other truss types except you have two top chord pitches and a pitch break length measured from the left butt cut of the truss.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 21, 2016, 06:58:11 PM
Version 1.4.4 - 03.21.2016
- Added Polynesian truss type, configurations: (4/4).
- Metric input enabled for polynesian truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for polynesian truss type.

I'm not sure where this type of truss is commonly used but whenever I see one I think of a bus stop or train station:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su99_800.jpg&hash=d4f1c289d98b28bc3360f72b6be8fd55)

Advanced options are not yet enabled for this truss type yet, so sheathing, fascia, rake will have to come later.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 22, 2016, 01:04:13 AM
After adding Bowstring and Bow Barrel trusses the only common other round truss type is the Barrel Vault.  The problem with this type of truss is the webs get messy or at least hard to predicate because of the interplay between the vault and the pitched roof above it.  In an effort to better understand this type of roof/ceiling configuration I've created the matrix below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FBARREL_VAULT%2FBARRELVAULT_STUDY1.jpg&hash=d990f6e722e78ecc4e3818541ffe77f3)

High Res. PDF copy here:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/BARREL_VAULT/BARRELVAULT_STUDY1.pdf

I am trying to predict the max. height of the vault given a specific roof pitch and and vault width to span ratio.  Perhaps I am recreating the wheel and some architect or designer has devised a method to create the perfect barrel vault given a roof pitch and other criteria.

I would be interested in what other opinions are on this matter.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on March 22, 2016, 01:57:17 PM
Thanks so much for the scissor truss with energy heel.  Will definitely have to update the plugin.  Any chance the menu changes included an arbitrary overhang?  For my example a 19.25" overhang allows me to use a precisely 12' metal roofing panel.  I imagine being able to input an overhang other than 2" increments would be useful in a lot of other instances too.

The progress on your updates is impressive, if not downright amazing.  Where's that We're Not Worthy animated smiley icon? ;D
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 22, 2016, 02:04:45 PM
The latest version has switched to an arbitrary overhang for most if not all truss types and rafter roofs, see changelog notes for Version 1.3.8 (03/10/2016).  The development has been very rapid the last few days as I have come upon some time to work on it and a serious push over the weekend to get some updates accomplished that were long outstanding.

I'm just amazed at the SketchUp API that allows me to script all of this.  I've always like the free form feel of SketchUp but never took it very seriously as a design or drafting tool.  With the ability to program extensions/plugins I think that changes the equation slightly.  I can now generate an entire structure in 3D in about 4 hours that would take me over 2 weeks to accomplish in Solidworks.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 22, 2016, 03:53:56 PM
Using a typical Barrel Vault 8/7+4 or 8/7+2 configuration I come up with the following triangulations.  I'm sure there are other methods of configuring these webs but for the purposes of the plugin I think these solutions will suffice for now:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FBARREL_VAULT%2FBARRELVAULT_STUDY1_REVA2.jpg&hash=18037bfda3f84477785d841d8fdc7a05)

High Resolution PDF copy here:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/BARREL_VAULT/BARRELVAULT_STUDY1_REVA2.pdf

Based on this matrix I've been able to come up with a simple algorithm for the triangulation of this truss type.  I'll admit the barrel vault truss is one handsome devil.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 22, 2016, 06:11:36 PM
A 9:12 barrel vault truss with a 16' wide barrel:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FBARREL_VAULT%2FBARRELVAULT_STUDY1_REVA3.jpg&hash=08411053566a15eafb13bf82a9875eb7)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 23, 2016, 02:43:02 AM
I'll admit the barrel vault truss is one handsome devil.

I think we need to do an intervention  ;D
I'm curious, what is the bottom chord tension like in one of the deep barrels as compared to a straight bottom chord?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 23, 2016, 12:18:34 PM
I don't know, I've never actually analyzed a truss like this.  I suppose I could put the exact same size of truss with identical loads into RISA and compare the two, that would be interesting.

Has anyone ever seen a gable end version of this truss type?  My thinking is that it might make more sense to just use a common gable truss otherwise you would be looking at some very complicated wall framing below the truss.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 23, 2016, 04:05:06 PM
Same truss as above but in SketchUp:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su100_800.jpg&hash=2600cd55f42ff6680dc325c5efd4faf9)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u93559996-8808-4186-9f65-3065a9d3f64f
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 24, 2016, 01:03:26 AM
Version 1.4.5 - 03.24.2016
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Scissor (4/4) truss type.

I guess I somehow missed enabling structural outlookers for scissor trusses.  Anyhow this issue was brought to my attention this evening so I've tried to rectify it as much as possible.  After delving into the code I realized that the scissor truss module needs a major rewrite and cleanup so I was only able to get structural outlookers enabled for the 4/4 configuration.  Later next week I will jump back into this module and work on the 2/2 and 6/6 configuration.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 25, 2016, 03:32:58 AM
I had someone ask me if it would be possible to create a small house or cabin based entirely on a raised heel attic truss profile, probably with some skylights for light.  I've never seen this type of design before but I don't see why it might not work.  Has anyone ever seen something like this done?  Basically an attic truss with a raised heel (48') resting directly on a stem wall foundation with post and beams or something similar.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FTRUSS_HOUSE1_ISO2.jpg&hash=df9f67448af24e5509ac4bbaf6ec1966)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FTRUSS_HOUSE1_ISO3.jpg&hash=d03dfdf9cb5966acb08b2a3d8d56d9cf)

The one issue I could see is if there were no windows for a bedroom (no egress) that was midway the length of the structure.  The design shown is 36' wide, 42' long with a 21' wide attic room.  6"x24" stemwall foundation, with a 12"x6" footing.

Typically large attic trusses are quite expensive so it would seem that this would be an expensive way to build a house perhaps there is some other reason that makes this method of construction viable?

Also note how much of the square footage is dead space (630 sqft) vs. the total area (1512 sqft).

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u88dea626-2d7e-45cb-8751-6f2f3b101fc5
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 25, 2016, 04:03:38 AM
I fail to see an advantage with that,15' of the footprint is unuseable and then a premium for the floor space. Replace the foundation with superior or similar precast full height walls on a gravel foundation and you can have a very fast build.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 25, 2016, 04:53:56 PM
Another look at the cambered truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FGEOMETRY%2FCAMBERED2_800.jpg&hash=0bf014d1e912bd360264e4b310f9bc3a)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 26, 2016, 08:36:53 PM
Version 1.4.6 - 03.26.2016
- Added Cambered truss type, configurations: (6/X).
- Metric input enabled for cambered truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for cambered truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su101_800.jpg&hash=7ed032a964ec7b59864fe9e63fce2ca7)

Six variants of the (6/X) configuration dependent on the ratio of the camber width to span.  Notice that in all cases the top chord has six panels, the bottom chord varies from 4, 5 and 6 panels.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ued7e0d19-2843-4b3a-9786-3c15cf876fdf
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 26, 2016, 11:04:38 PM
Second look at cathedral trusses (6/X) family:

The logic required to triangulate these type of trusses becomes tedious.
Title: Cathedral Trusses
Post by: Medeek on March 28, 2016, 06:17:32 AM
I've been meaning to add in cathedral trusses for quite some time and I finally had the chance last night.  Configuration (3) shown below for a catheral 6/X truss:

Now I only need to code in the other six configurations and its ready to release as a new update.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 28, 2016, 11:21:41 AM
A breakdown of the configurations for the Cathedral 4/X family:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FGEOMETRY%2FCATHEDRAL3_800.jpg&hash=81a35b2f30109b341887d5574b3d4d0b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 28, 2016, 07:36:23 PM
Version 1.4.7 - 03.28.2016
- Added Cathedral truss type, configurations: (4/X, 6/X).
- Metric input enabled for cathedral truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for cathedral truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su103_800.jpg&hash=b2cb6ceee55d4f8af7d8baab23d907d5)

Note, that not all configurations have webs enabled however the top chords, bottom chords, gable end trusses and all advanced options are enabled.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 29, 2016, 07:39:46 AM
Just as a word of warning this plugin is far from a polished or finished product.  There are still a lot of loose ends that need tying up.  Case in point I have not yet enabled gable end trusses for the attic truss type.  The reason is the complication of dropping the top chord for structural outlookers where the attic truss has a spliced top chord.  Below is an example of a attic truss with a dropped top chord that I have encountered in the past but I don't know if this is the best method of handling this situation.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fimages%2Fslideshow%2FROOF_STAIRWELL_ASSEMBLY_1024.jpg&hash=49e8dd53fb633019bbc4890d1a1f7a90)

I would like to enable structural outlookers for attic trusses in the next few days just to wrap this up.  Any thoughts or suggestions or examples of similar configurations are very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 29, 2016, 09:16:51 PM
To further clarify the framing details with regards to attic trusses and structural outlookers I've created a sample model with a proposed dropped top chord gable end attic truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su104_800.jpg&hash=5132b233849a863dc00c4436c620d515)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u8c3afc5c-482a-41ea-b223-988b1cccd8bc

I've also included the infill wall framing to help put everything into reference (light green).

Is this the appropriate way to frame an attic truss (gable end) with structural outlookers?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 30, 2016, 06:25:17 AM
The reason I provide the full attic opening at the gable end truss is so that the framed in wall can be the nominal ext. wall thickness of 5.5 inches and allow for R-21 insulation.  I've had some truss plants provide the typical vert. webs for nailing off the sheathing over this space but then one has to fir it all out anyways to get the appropriate wall thickness for the insulation.

If the wall below the gable end truss is sufficient for bearing then the gable end truss really does not need to have any structural capability so all of the diagonal webs can go away.  One could also  get away with a 2x4 dropped top chord with the stacked top chord at the eaves as shown.  It would make sense to have the same depth at the bottom chord though so that the floor sheathing has a convenient nailing surface right to the edge of the building.

Alternatively one could do away with the gable end truss entirely and just balloon frame the wall from the ground floor up or from the attic floor up.

The question is which method should be employed within the plugin.  I would prefer to use the most commonly employed solution.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 30, 2016, 03:42:38 PM
A pic is eluding me, reply #376 looks very familiar. Right down to the stair in that end. I'm about certain the bracing level under the piggyback is the same elevation from common to dropped gable. Yes leave the room area "hollow" to be field framed.

We set one of your designs last weekend. I ran the persnickety truck and got to watch a 70 year old pup do my job, and do it well :)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 30, 2016, 07:24:00 PM
Any pictures from this recent build?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 30, 2016, 10:28:11 PM
Six possible end details for a flat truss (Pratt 4 panels), there are probably others but these seem to be the most common:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su105_800.jpg&hash=ec69684afda0c7d3cdb7c24aa26890bf)

1.) Mansard w/ Parapet
2.) Parapet
3.) Mansard
4.) Overhang
5.) Cantilever
6.) None

Both Mansard configurations can also have an optional overhang as shown.  The Parapet configuration should allow for customizing the thickness of the parapet wall.

View model here:

This truss type with its many end configurations would work well with an HTML UI, that is the direction I will be going with future user inputs and interfaces since the ability to customize is unlimited.

With the flat trusses I will initially offer both Howe and Pratt with the ability to utilize a low slope or zero slope.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 01, 2016, 08:20:54 AM
Version 1.4.8 - 04.01.2016
- Added Mod Fan common truss type.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Mod Fan) truss type.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su106_800.jpg&hash=b788d5605f560d20d342b04d37aa8663)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u3cf3d051-4d02-4490-af81-5693296cca33

With the addition of the Mod Fan (Triple Fan) the line up of common trusses is complete.  I still need to add in raised heels and structural outlookers for some of the configurations.

Theoretically I could add in additional configurations of the Fink and Howe truss types for extremely large roofs but the largest I've ever seen is a raised heel Quad Fink (10/9).  Large spans beyond 70'-80' are probably not practical as far as a single span common truss roof.  At that point you pretty much go with large flat roofs with interior columns and girders and all steel construction (think Walmart or Cosco).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 02, 2016, 10:16:26 PM
Tray truss algorithm:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FGEOMETRY%2FTRAY1_800.jpg&hash=0aa43857b8bb7bacd3017e3dbd3d0ce8)

A more complex algorithm would be required for a non-centered tray.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 03, 2016, 10:59:28 PM
Tray Trusses working now I just need to enable gable ends and advanced options:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su107_800.jpg&hash=b0ce7c6e0905481f5bcd9f00edfd95dc)

Note the three large trusses are all 36' span with different tray widths and different web triangulations.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ub0bbdf3a-4749-4e8a-8016-758869f692b6
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on April 04, 2016, 03:32:20 AM
I'm confused. Can you explain the non viable configurations in the sketch above, I'm not understanding what is kicking them out or the difference in them and todays sketches  d*

Umm, I haven't taken pics of the shop trusses we've been raising... and not sure I'd feel comfortable posting them. The learning curve was steep and so I will pass the info part on. Basically when site building trusses they all have to be identical. The truss needs to be lofted out on the assembly surface and better yet, lofted and then blocks set to create a jig. Things went pretty well until we got down in the stack. We set the first several that were built using a tape and eyeball and have problems, the bottom chord was not kept straight and when the webs are installed it locks the truss in either a humped or hogged height. By the end of the day I had cut the webs out of what was the original truss and gotten it to settle some, the peak and heel gussets are still relatively fixed and the surrounding trusses are not planning correctly either. Plan B; We'll install 2x4's dangling vertically from the peak gusset, nailed flatways onto the gusset very well. Then run a 2x12 ridge under the peak gussets and draw the gussets to the 2x12 with bar clamps and attach that together well. I expect to cut out and replace several more webs if the trusses need to move much. If the peaks and heels remain fixed we'll need to remove and replace those very well nailed gussets.
So, lessons learned, build very carefully on a full scale set of lines at the minimum. It wouldn't hurt to stack the trusses in their final orientation on the ground as you build them and make sure they line up with one another perfectly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 04, 2016, 05:35:08 AM
Technically the non-viable configurations are okay but I am assuming that the top chord loads will be larger than the bottom chord loads and with that I am applying a rule of a 6' max. on the top chord panel length and a 9' max. on the bottom chord panel length.  The viable options approximate this ratio better than the non-viable options.  If one of these trusses were somehow a girder truss that would all change of course.

My biggest concern with site built trusses is quality control and of course proper jigging so they all come out identical or nearly so.  The truss plants have some very expensive jigging systems and near perfect assembly conditions to help with this but even so I've seen some very sloppy work come out of some of these plants with respect to misplaced plates and even plates entirely missing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 04, 2016, 08:29:48 PM
Version 1.4.9 - 04.04.2016
- Added Tray truss type, configurations: (AUTO).
- Metric input enabled for tray truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for tray truss type.

A few more configurations:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su108_800.jpg&hash=458e1c64b7e43729c9a7634db07afc21)

The next truss type I would like to add is the coffer truss but I don't have a lot of good examples of this truss type to study.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 11, 2016, 06:21:28 AM
Version 1.5.0 - 04.11.2016
- Added Mono Scissor truss type, configurations: (2/2, 3/3).
- Metric input enabled for mono scissor truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for mono scissor truss type.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Mono Scissor (2/2, 3/3) truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su110_800.jpg&hash=568e134c14980f6d4963cf65d0c251eb)

When the raised heel option is selected the pitch of the bottom chord may equal the top chord creating a half vaulted parallel chord truss.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=8e90b148-e241-4c88-b8b4-83c21ec12a3d
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 13, 2016, 09:07:17 PM
Updating the hip roof module so that an appropriate wireframe is displayed while using the roof positioning tool:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su111_800.jpg&hash=cc1e0037cfd96216dfae37299016d361)

I will roll a revision once I've finished updating all of the rafter roof types with updated wireframes (preview graphics).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 16, 2016, 10:20:42 PM
Version 1.5.1 - 04.16.2016
- Added wireframe (temporary) graphics to the roof positioning tool for rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su112_800.jpg&hash=836126d7de2a955bae9e7c1edcd8c459)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=614d542d-8dcc-4f2f-bbdc-fd4bc4c1f1e7

I still need to setup ceiling joists for hip and dutch gable roofs.
Title: Complex Roof Framing - Nested Dutch Gable Roof
Post by: Medeek on April 17, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
A nested dutch gable roof created with the plugin.  The roof is initially generated by creating three dutch gable primitives and then deleting and trimming certain elements.  The most time consuming is the creation of the two valley rafters.  I think it might be helpful to have some sort of valley rafter tool if I can figure out a good way of doing that.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su113_800.jpg&hash=e58866c43bc6b804cf3d5119ea85bd9b)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=2676e970-a79e-40a3-8c77-63208c9d93ef
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on April 17, 2016, 05:01:49 PM
Wow, that's kind of cool, not a roof I'd have ever thought of. If I select 2 points and click valley can it justify and insert... just rambling beyond my ken.

This is a framing detail shot of some hip framing from last week.
The porch roof is 3/12 on both sides of the hip, I used 2x8 rafters and double 2x12 hip. The hip birdsmouth was not going to land over support. You can see from the intersection with the dragon piece that the level seat cut would have extended about that far out from the support. That is one way out of the problem. I've picked up double hangers for the hip to dragon.

The design calls for a 3 post corner. The one for the left of the corner was too twisted so it isn't in yet. A slot in each end allows the post to slide in over the steel plate that is bolted into the built up triple 2x8 porch carry beam and extending down into the post. Two steel pins in plugged holes will attach the plate to post top and bottom.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 17, 2016, 07:54:12 PM
I like your use of the double hip, are you ripping a bevel into them or dropping them?

With that low of a pitch the birdsmouth starts to cause problems, this method seems like a clever way to handle it, I've never heard of the term "dragon" before, where else is this used?

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 17, 2016, 07:57:23 PM
Looking at the half hip roof next.  Fairly cut and dried but I'm a little undecided how to handle the birdsmouth cut of the hip rafter where it intersects the discontinuity of the gable wall.  I will probably use the same birdsmouth cut on the half hip rafters as the other common rafters of the roof, but this could be different if one wanted to frame it that way and the gable wall would just raise slightly.  I've never had much respect for framers or carpenters until now (my bad) but after spending some time working through some of these bizarre roof types my level of respect has changed.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ce1dd25e-7674-4625-981e-52a4e07b9997
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on April 18, 2016, 02:24:57 AM
Here's some of the history of the term, this is probably correctly a diagonal beam... I'm guessing "dragon" in either diagonal orientation probably devolved from that.
http://www.mileslewis.net/lectures/04-history-of-building/puncheons-and-dragons.pdf

I prefer to back rather than drop if possible, and with a double hip or valley backing exterior and/or interior it's easy. the double makes working around the corner easier too. This took a 10 degree backing angle, or it would have been ~1/4" drop, so not much either way.

This was a wrap around porch, on the first hip the jacks "shake hands" across the hip, I already had the cjs in before thinking to take a pic and its kind of busy, as I made it around to this one, since the rafter spacing was set and coming across the back of the house was set by the house framing, they do not line up. Not a bniggie but another reason I like the double hip or valley. I read it sort of like a single top plate vs a double top plate... if things don't line up using a double helps hold the framing in line until its all sheathed.

This last hip to me is a jerkinhead or clipped gable.

Been there enough, carpentry's just a handful of nails and we bang and bang until its done  ;D One old timer said roofs and stairs separate the men from the boys real fast.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 18, 2016, 11:18:45 AM
Per user request:

Version 1.5.2 - 04.18.2016
- Added energy/raised heels for small span attic trusses (less than 24 ft.), 1 variant: vertical w/ strut.
- Added some additional logic to improve the triangulation of the upper attic of attic trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su115_800.jpg&hash=4bfd649a1cb84f5cdec42c7c3cd26ae9)

When I get some more time I will add in slider and wedge raised heel options for the attic truss type but at that moment it is low priority since most users seem to favor a fairly tall raised heel when utilizing it with attic trusses.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 20, 2016, 10:53:03 PM
Version 1.5.3 - 04.20.2016
- Added Mono Cathedral truss type, configurations: (2/2, 4/4).
- Metric input enabled for mono cathedral truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for mono cathedral truss type.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Mono Cathedral (2/2, 4/4) truss types.
- Added Mono Scissor truss type, configuration: (4/4).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su116_800.jpg&hash=a96c1003e922fd4fe3dee26c9bb09345)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=2ba29c11-a7b2-4913-a758-c005eb1288f9

I manually modeled this truss type about two months ago and I have been meaning to add it in, finally got it done tonight.

Manually created model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u5c030ac2-f2e4-4c8d-8d9b-67bfa780ee7f
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on April 21, 2016, 04:03:51 AM
Oh, came across another name for what I called a jerkinhead gable... "snug dutch"
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 21, 2016, 05:22:59 AM
It seems there I quite a few different terms for this roof configuration: half hip, jerkin head gable, clipped gable and now snug dutch.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 21, 2016, 07:26:56 PM
Version 1.5.4 - 04.21.2016
- Added a graphical user interface (GUI) for the selection of the truss type in the "Draw Roof Truss" sub-menu.
- GUI can be toggled with previous drop down menu within global settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su117_800.jpg&hash=701bf8df5990eac6c3ec8651f9d2e90f)

As you can see there is only one global setting at the moment but now that I have the interface and back end properly setup it won't take much to add in a number of other global values.  At some point I will probably have enough parameters that I will need to enable some sort of tabbed html front end for the global setting menu.

With html web dialog boxes I am not sure how well they work on a Mac, the whole sync vs. async issue is a real problem for web dialogs and Macs.  I only test on a PC so I can't guarantee 100% compatibility on a Mac.  So far I haven't had too many complaints.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on April 22, 2016, 10:26:35 AM
...

With html web dialog boxes I am not sure how well they work on a Mac, the whole sync vs. async issue is a real problem for web dialogs and Macs.  I only test on a PC so I can't guarantee 100% compatibility on a Mac.  So far I haven't had too many complaints.

I run Sketchup on a Linux box using the Windows version and WINE.  The only UI problem I have seen in prior versions is that the mouse-over text for the toolbar icons doesn't display properly.  That's likely a WINE or Sketchup issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.  Haven't updated since a few versions back so can't comment on the GUI.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 22, 2016, 07:37:59 PM
Version 1.5.4 - 04.21.2016
- Added a graphical user interface (GUI) for the selection of the truss type in the "Draw Roof Truss" sub-menu.
- GUI can be toggled with previous drop down menu within global settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su117_800.jpg&hash=701bf8df5990eac6c3ec8651f9d2e90f)

As you can see there is only one global setting at the moment but now that I have the interface and back end properly setup it won't take much to add in a number of other global values.  At some point I will probably have enough parameters that I will need to enable some sort of tabbed html front end for the global setting menu.

With html web dialog boxes I am not sure how well they work on a Mac, the whole sync vs. async issue is a real problem for web dialogs and Macs.  I only test on a PC so I can't guarantee 100% compatibility on a Mac.  So far I haven't had too many complaints.

Let me know if you encounter any problems with the new GUI, I wouldn't be surprised if it has problems on a Mac.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 27, 2016, 12:18:11 AM
Here is a preview of the Geometry Input (GUI) menu for the upcoming gambrel attic truss.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su119_800.jpg&hash=a30a869f6c285b87d9cac0ec345f2a79)

Notice the preview pane which gives a basic profile of the truss and attic space.  I still need to add some dimensions and some other symbols (pitch, bearing walls, etc...) to the preview graphics but it is mostly there and functioning quite admirably.

The GUI is html with javascript and SVG (scalable vector graphics) for the image.  The nice thing is that changing any of the inputs will instantly update the dimensions and preview image allowing one to fine tune the truss geometry before proceeding further.  For gambrel roofs this ability to adjust the proportions of the roof relative to each other is very important in my opinion.  See my previous gambrel study here:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/gambrelroofstudy.html

Since the menu is primarily composed of html, javascript and SVG you can actually beta test it external to SketchUp here:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/gambrel/web_dialog_gambrel_attic.html
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 28, 2016, 01:38:38 PM
Updated screenshot of the gambrel attic menu:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su120_800.jpg&hash=6eef605f6a7fc81de56f943b4e87a945)

This is getting pretty close to the final form that this menu will take.

It's actually really amazing what can be done with SVG and javascript, definitely not my forte but after this exercise I feel like I can probably construct anything with this combo if required.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 29, 2016, 03:15:43 AM
Version 1.5.5 - 04.29.2016
- Added Gambrel Attic truss type, configurations: (AUTO w/ piggyback trusses).
- Added a graphical user interface (GUI) for gambrel attic geometry input.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su121_800.jpg&hash=8e7c2bccd9f3c8dae2ec8381f7c2bf6d)

A reset button would be useful to return the GUI to the default values.  There is still a lot of work to be done with the gambrel attic truss type:

- Gable Trusses
- Default or Reset Button
- Metric Input

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=fc8be11c-8bb1-4e60-a73e-5ba62628ae95
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 29, 2016, 11:21:51 AM
With the graphical menus you will notice a slight delay once the "submit" button is clicked.  This is to allow for a quick display of a status message, however I'm finding this delay to be annoying and may eliminate it altogether to speed the use of the new GUI.

Also note that with gambrel attic trusses the non-graphical geometry menu is still an option if you turn off the GUI flag in the global settings.  For some people this may be easier but I think the new preview pane is a major design asset when it comes to this type of roof.

I'm thinking it might be useful to implement this same type of preview/GUI for regular attic trusses so that one can preview the configuration before committing.  Now that I've been down this road once it won't be such a struggle.  Most of the other truss types are fairly simple and a preview image is probably not warranted unless the users say otherwise.

I feel that the preview window goes a long way in helping explain what each term is in the input geometry menu but I may also add in some pop up windows (?) that display diagrams or other explanatory notes to help the less educated users.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 29, 2016, 09:29:54 PM
This is the level of detail I am aiming for with the advanced options for gambrel attic roofs (minus the truss plates):

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13131738_10208476408255049_4068722961615908164_o.jpg)

Notice the structural outlookers with gable end trusses and the prow roof (option).  I've got my work cut out for me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 03, 2016, 01:11:30 PM
I am wondering how many of your designers/architects/contractors/builders out there have used Open Joist products?

http://www.openjoisttriforce.com/

I was thinking I might add their product line to the Floor Joist/Truss module.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: fyoung on May 04, 2016, 12:56:47 AM
How can I download the truss calculator? thank you very much for sharing,Farris
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: azgreg on May 04, 2016, 03:41:49 AM
How can I download the truss calculator? thank you very much for sharing,Farris

http://design.medeek.com/
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 10, 2016, 11:42:49 PM
Version 1.5.6 - 05.11.2016
- The plugin now automatically checks for updates.
- Option added in Global Settings to adjust frequency of "check for updates" or to disable this feature entirely.

I've also added in the Open Joist (TriForce) floor truss but it is not quite ready for release so I have disabled it until the next version release.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on May 11, 2016, 04:30:10 AM
Sweet, I was a number of updates behind. Bumped up the "check for updates" from the default of monthly to weekly.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 11, 2016, 10:49:36 AM
At this point it only checks to see if the plugin is up-to-date and then gives the option to open up the plugin page so the most recent version can be downloaded.  At some point I would like for it to auto-install the newer version but that will take some more advanced code.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 14, 2016, 08:00:22 PM
For large agricultural buildings a double inverted truss can be employed to provide a large vaulted span for machinery:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lakecountrytruss.ca%2Fimages%2Ftrusses%2Fdouble_inverted_large.jpg&hash=9a30b5fc4bd0d62dcf8a4fac24e01c5c)

I am wondering if this truss type is still commonly used by anyone for this type of application and whether it would be of interest, enough for me to add it into the growing list of trusses within the plugin.

Also if anyone has any shop drawings they could send me that would be very helpful.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 14, 2016, 08:55:40 PM
A quick study of a double inverted truss by taking two 24' howe trusses and joining them to form a double truss.  Note that the 4:12 pitch of the original trusses is maintained and the interior vault is exactly 8:12 pitch.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=d1f62979-cea5-42f0-97e4-16309098928a

My question with this configuration is how the top and bottom chords at the peak should butt up?  For example should the bottom chords at the peak have a double scarf cut or a single scarf cut?  Some shop drawings would help in determining what is common practice.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 15, 2016, 12:29:39 PM
Version 1.5.7 - 05.15.2016
- Added Scissor truss type, configurations: (4/2, 6/4).
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Scissor (4/2, 6/4) truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su123_800.jpg&hash=43cd70e3ea09d23413bd691938229efa)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=620e816e-d809-4732-a19f-e425b4cc17fc

I also updated the pause in the truss selector GUI from 700 ms to 400 ms.  Still more work to be done with raised heels and structural outlookers for some of these configurations but its getting close.
Title: Coffer Trusses
Post by: Medeek on May 16, 2016, 08:42:51 PM
Coffer Truss Algorithm:

This is assuming that the coffer span is centered on the truss.  A non-centered coffer algorithm could get significantly more interesting and difficult.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 20, 2016, 06:04:12 AM
This map shows where the Truss Plugin is being utilized:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/sketchup/data/medeektrusspluginusermap.pl

Note, this is only registered users and not all installations of the trial version.  Also note that addresses have been dumbed down to City, State, Country so that the privacy of registered users is upheld.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 22, 2016, 09:05:02 PM
Version 1.5.8 - 05.22.2016
- Added metric input for Gambrel Attic truss type.
- Added a graphical user interface (GUI) for metric gambrel attic geometry input.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on May 23, 2016, 02:34:45 AM
Cool, the map didn't load for me the other day, it did this morning. Very impressive. It also looks like you need to move east  ;D. I notice 3 that are probably not in your best interest.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 23, 2016, 06:35:18 AM
Gambrel Attic (metric) GUI

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su125_800.jpg&hash=4ed2ef698752483a311005a9412252c3)

I also show the industry standard feet-inches-sixteenths.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 29, 2016, 12:56:10 AM
Version 1.5.9 - 05.29.2016
- Increased top chord pitch limit from 12/12 to 18/12 for the following Scissor truss types, configurations: (2/2, 4/4).
- Heel web logic revised to accommodate steeper pitches for bottom and top chords of scissor trusses.
- Increased top chord pitch limit from 12/12 to 18/12 for valley truss sets.

16/12:12/12 Scissor Truss with an 18" raised heel:

Notice that the steep pitch of the bottom chord changes the way the heel web and bottom chord meet at the bearing point.  The additional logic listed in the changelog notes deals specifically with this issue.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=6c14d6c0-14c3-44cc-ba76-e4771fbfa936
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 30, 2016, 11:08:33 PM
I will probably add the symmetric cathedral truss type next:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su127_800.jpg&hash=54612559c4cf72060305bbda08670808)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=1fb7807d-2d62-447e-86db-52cd98432a29

The web configurations will use an "auto" triangulation algorithm similar to the tray truss type.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 08, 2016, 06:38:40 AM
Version 1.6.0 - 06.08.2016
- Corrected a bug with raised heel fink trusses and structural outlookers.

This update may seem minor but underneath the hood it is a big change.  I've rewritten a significant portion of the common truss module so that I can now offer raised heel trusses for all the other common truss types.  Be on the lookout for this update in the near future.

Raised heel trusses (wedge, slider, vert) complicate things when combined with structural outlookers.  I've had to add some significant logic to deal with all the permutations.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 09, 2016, 12:19:30 AM
Various configurations of a 16' King Post Truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su128_800.jpg&hash=e8d837ece8bca36c462b45b43a37432c)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=d38c0061-b812-499a-b02a-70c43148d958

With a raised heel note the use of either a wedge, slider or vertical web with strut.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 11, 2016, 12:52:02 PM
Version 1.6.1 - 06.11.2016
- Added Coffer truss type, configurations: (AUTO).
- Metric input enabled for coffer truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for coffer truss type.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Coffer truss type.
- Building parameter menu (2nd) and advanced options menu for trusses now default to last picked options of the session for that sub-menu item.

Various configurations of a 40' coffer truss shown below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su129_800.jpg&hash=9051100a8be86a2e12f2a0d494e5d621)

The web triangulation algorithm automatically determines which configuration is appropriate based on the span between panel points.  This simplifies the geometry input menu but does take some control from the user.

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 14, 2016, 12:42:18 AM
Version 1.6.2 - 06.14.2016
- Added Symmetric Cathedral truss type, configurations: (AUTO).
- Metric input enabled for symmetric cathedral truss type.
- Added gable end trusses for symmetric cathedral truss type.
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Symmetric Cathedral truss type.

Various sizes and configurations of a symmetric cathedral truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su130_800.jpg&hash=9544d0bc0ca909e33880e7fe068a2d6b)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=2755897d-3855-447a-bc13-d4478cf99355
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 14, 2016, 10:03:20 PM
Modified an existing truss roof to make it a half hip truss set:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su131_800.jpg&hash=9116a5bab67c4fa26603cc78811310f6)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=6e2633ca-ebb2-4597-87e9-ba41b47a636f

This will be my first venture into more complex truss systems.  I figured I would cut my teeth on the half hip (Jerkin Head, Tudor Hip) truss set first before attacking the more complex full hip variants of which there are many.

After sketching this model up and examining the geometry I now have a number of questions:

1.  Are my roof planes correct?  Note that I have drawn the apex of the hip roofs at the edge of the last full truss and not at its centerline.  Not entirely sure what is common practice in this regard.

2.  I've shown some non-structural outlookers along the rake.  What would the outlookers along the half hip portion look like?

3.  If I use structural outlookers how would those be framed in over the hip section?

4.  Does the apex of the half hip typically coincide with the next truss or could it land somewhere between trusses?  ie. the half hip length is some multiple of the truss spacing.

5.  Is the hip section usually the same pitch as the rest of the roof?  There is really no reason why it has to be.

6.  As the length of the half hip increases the depth of the gable end truss decreases as does the first inboard truss.  What is the practical limit for the minimum depth of the first inboard truss?

7.  Does anyone have some shop drawings of this type of truss set that I can study?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 15, 2016, 10:48:44 AM
As previously noted the web dialog from the plugin can actually be used external to SketchUp to explore gambrel attic geometry:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su125_800.jpg&hash=4ed2ef698752483a311005a9412252c3)

Imperial Units:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/gambrel/web_dialog_gambrel_attic.html

Metric Units:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/gambrel/web_dialog_gambrel_attic_metric.html

I might develop this into a web based app which would allow one to generate 2D AutoCAD geometry (.dwg) of the truss profile.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 15, 2016, 03:35:38 PM
With non-structural lookouts would you frame them something like this?  This question is mostly directed at the contractors and carpenters out in the field who actually have to build these roofs.  Typically as an engineer I never worry about these details especially when they are non-structural.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su132_800.jpg&hash=1b8c9c17d4fc385ce15321df81e86a55)

In my opinion they aren't really doing a whole lot, much better to drop the gable truss and then cantilever them from the first in board truss (ie. structural outlookers).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 15, 2016, 06:00:27 PM
Hip Truss Algorithm:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FGEOMETRY%2FHIP1_800.jpg&hash=a81b79140281313351c3ea8ac7a301d1)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on June 16, 2016, 02:16:36 AM
On the jerkinhead I would step back inside and make the lookouts structural. I've only framed one, I think the style has largely passed. That one was a homeowner afterthought. I was installing piggybacks and he shouted up asking if I could leave off the last couple of piggybacks and clip the gable. I cobbled something together that passed his muster but when I came down and looked at it I would prefer the pitch match the main I think. I was in the neighborhood playing with what the truss was allowing, but not matching.

From an engineering standpoint we wing it on overhangs very often, and very often they are the leading edge of a roof failure in high wind. I was the only carpenter in a room full of engineers when we were talking about this. The professor commented that we do a lousy job nailing the bottom corners of roof sheathing off. I asked if any of them had ever been staring at the roof of their truck far below while holding on with one hand and nailing with the other. The room glowed for a second, but I do hang there for longer now, man I really need to repaint that sucker  :D
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 17, 2016, 04:57:55 PM
Outlookers oriented horizontally with gable end truss top chord dropped:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su133_800.jpg&hash=54159eb6486e45d81179fe72d9d81dc0)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=9f3dd430-1b90-435a-bfa6-f2bbe4d3e553
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 19, 2016, 05:00:51 PM
Version 1.6.3 - 06.19.2016
- Added Gable Dormers to the Minor Roof Sub-Menu (dormer walls only).

For now only the walls of the dormer are created:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su134_800.jpg&hash=f9fd852d67c3229bb01520ce019f3bc1)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=e17866e5-2e1d-4fb7-8203-fcb6484e8f08

I am still ironing out the details on how to best model the roof geometry.  I will probably offer either a rafter or truss option.  Other details such as multiple windows will also come later.

For now please test the metric and imperial wall creation.  I will probably need to post a tutorial video on how to use this feature since it involves selecting the main roof plane (top of a rafter or truss) and then two points that define the width/exterior corners of the dormer.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 20, 2016, 07:29:35 AM
Testing the dormer (wall) feature out with a gambrel attic truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su135_800.jpg&hash=43e75d5839b9de0b583aecc389f857e7)

These dormers have a typical gable profile but it might be useful to have a gambrel dormer option as well to match with a gambrel style roof.  Note that I have not shown all of the ladder framing in the model.  On a roof like this it could get quite extensive.

To generate the dormer roof I just used my rafter roof feature and then trimmed the elements back manually.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=315004e6-6c2e-427e-981e-dc891371c77c

https://www.kubity.com/p/uCN2F6
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 20, 2016, 10:27:27 AM
Same barn with a few more details.  For gambrel attic advanced options I should also include the option for a crow's beak as shown in this model and the option to set the extension.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su136_800.jpg&hash=2e4f4822015df9dd9fe58f64d0f30f3e)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=1d1a6c57-08c4-46a4-a93e-9ae28b9f477e

https://www.kubity.com/p/uraGAJ
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2016, 07:37:20 AM
Under advanced options for gable roofs (truss and rafter) I am thinking about adding a "roof return" option.  Any thoughts on "greek returns":

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fplansets%2Fgarages%2FGARAGE4828-A6D-3B%2FPHOTOS%2FSHEATHING_RIGHT.jpg&hash=fae7c543b89e1d7a83628c63751f5af5)

The images above shows a roof return with a gable termination, alternatively this could end with a hip termination as in below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchitectage.com%2Faaattaches%2Faaattaches7%2F040619454852583.jpg&hash=ba743ee27cd762e1ab1df1be62e86158)

Or with a full greek which stretches across the entire span:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tractorbynet.com%2Fforums%2Ffiles%2Fprojects%2F261132d1334631697-what-do-you-call-roof-full-return-jpg&hash=ed4038eaf085db984e34745c41f061b9)

Does anyone have any specific framing details on how best to frame these roof elements?

As far as the logic to add them into the plugin it won't be a big deal, just an additional module that plugs into the advanced roof module.

To simplify things I would used the same pitch on the returns as on the main roof.  The three variables would be:

1.)  Return Type: Gable, Hip, Full
2.)  Length of the Return
3.)  Extension beyond Rake
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2016, 09:53:31 AM
A quick study of a hip return:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su137_800.jpg&hash=66cbc2eda19435b72fa65ddc2fffc575)

Notice the inboard hip rafter does not terminate at the gable wall when the return length is too short.  This poses some interesting framing given this situation, note the return on the right side of the roof is this case, not entirely sure how one would support/terminate the hip rafter in this situation.

When the return length allows the hip rafter to terminate at the gable wall then the framing is fairly straightforward.

The hip rafter will terminate at the gable wall when the return length is greater than or equal to twice the total return extension (Rakeboard Width + Gable Overhang + Return Extension).

The other question that I have is how to apply the sheathing to these small odd shaped roof segments.  How far up under the overhang should the sheathing extend?

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=482d84f7-52a6-4b56-bf7d-4f373d825ec0

https://www.kubity.com/p/ytJPd4
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on June 25, 2016, 05:35:25 PM
The sheathing needs to get up far enough to close it up, the full returns on this house were full of nests and poop, hopefully I've left no way in now. another renovation I'm involved with has flat topped returns.. go figure, they are slightly pitched now, but, I don't think the pitch needs to be the same, these look better somewhat flatter as the main pitch increases IMO. They can also tuck behind the main rake as in your full greek return sketch.

When I frame a long "faker" either across a gable like that or across a shed dormer bottom, I'll make plywood templates out of scraps that are the shape of that section. These have a notch out of the bottom edge for a 2x4 wall ledger. 2x blocking is nailed to opposite faces the ply to give nailing for roof, wall, soffit and subfascia. This goes faster and straighter than trying to assemble sticks in the air.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2016, 09:47:47 PM
I have problems with birds nesting, nothing worse than waking up one morning and being covered in bird mites.

I'm looking for more pictures of actual framing of different styles of returns.  I think your right on the pitch, I should probably make that another input so that the user can control the return pitch independent of the roof pitch.

Here is a good picture of some typical greek returns (hip), just wish they showed the framing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contractortalk.com%2Fattachments%2Ff14%2F29192d1267069506-cornish-return-100_0176.jpg&hash=abc1136baf7280cfb3711b35e903f14c)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2016, 10:18:45 PM

http://spot.pcc.edu/~rsteele/BCT122_123/return_eave.pdf

They run the outside hip rafter back to the gable wall and don't run the barge rafter (rake board) to the fascia like I've shown, maybe I've got this wrong...

This method would allow for sheathing of the return without having to notch around the barge rafter.  I call this the floating barge rafter method:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su138_800.jpg&hash=f80c4734fc21022456babb28a72e5d83)

Compare with extending the barge rafter all the way to the fascia board:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su139_800.jpg&hash=c1e7606e56d1765f4314b1361f0a374e)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 27, 2016, 05:08:51 AM
Version 1.6.4 - 06.27.2016
- Added roof return option within the advanced options menu for common, scissor and vaulted trusses, configurations: (HIP).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su140_800.jpg&hash=316467493deed2e80e1fbff7c77dc3b8)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=790b256d-72fe-46c9-b49c-dd7da0209a02

This option is available for most typical triangular shaped trusses.

I will be adding the gable and full return at a later date, currently only the hip return is available.  Another limitation is that the return roof pitches currently default to the main roof pitch.  I need to add some additional code that will allow the pitch of the return portions to be set independent of the main roof pitch.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 27, 2016, 07:34:57 PM
12:12 main roof with a 8:12 hip roof return.  The interesting part is the hip rafter
where the return meets the main roof plane.  The dropped hip rafter is off center so that it supports the sheathing from both planes.  The calculations might prove challenging.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su141_800.jpg&hash=4cdc88cea85af106ec004315b1ec820e)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 29, 2016, 10:36:04 PM
Roof return pitch can now be set independent of main roof pitch:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su142_800.jpg&hash=5daa81be8114b0f498216345eaa1ac53)

The calculations for a hip rafter that handles two pitches was insane as expected.  I've also made some other minor adjustments and bug fixes related to the sheathing and rake board when the roof return extension equals the gable overhang.

I've set it up so that the return pitch can also be greater than the main roof pitch but its doubtful if this will find any usage.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 02, 2016, 12:04:53 PM
Looking at the lumber and I-Joist floor module this morning and thinking it might be nice to make an option that allows one to specify something other than a rectangle for the floor outline.  For example an L-shaped floor outline:

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=f44c5189-df6e-4178-9bf1-47e7cb74e0c5

https://www.qrvr.io/p/HlnqPF

Or even more exotic shapes with non-orthogonal corners.  I'll be giving this some thought over the weekend.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 07, 2016, 08:23:59 AM
Version 1.6.5 - 07.07.2016
- Added energy/raised heels for polynesian truss type (1 variant: vertical w/ strut).
- Fixed HTML truss selector menu so that window size no longer truncates truss images.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su145_800.jpg&hash=01149df14191fd57ea0e0a55a5c47956)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=c4ecc314-9702-4c99-9148-ca0790178583
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 11, 2016, 05:54:34 PM
This is an example of a 24' x 24' garage that I would like to build on my property this summer or the next.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su146_800.jpg&hash=efe5e98ba7e93f8f60ac177032923e21)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=77329ddc-a170-4dde-945e-4e413304f620

I created the foundation and roof with minimal effort using my own plugins.  The walls were created initially with the housebuilder plugin however I then manually edited the walls.  Note that the top plates overlap properly as they should.

Also note that the garage door wall is a double portal frame.  I would like for my wall plugin to automatically create this standard type of portal frame (PFH) both single and double (ie. Garage Door Option). Notice the embedded Simpson Strong-Tie STHD14 holdowns.

I like to use 2x jamb boards around the door perimeters when the stem wall projects above the concrete slab, this may be atypical constructon for others.  Local contractors like to embed a pressure treated nailer into the concrete.

In theory I should be able to create this exact model using the Foundation, Wall and Truss Plugin and do it all within 5 minutes or less.  That is the goal.

With the wall plugin I will have the standard linear wall tool but I would also like to have a rectangle wall tool that will immediately throw up 4 walls given three user selected points, similar to the truss and roof plugins.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 12, 2016, 01:45:45 AM
That would be cool. Aligning studs and rafters/joists? One thing I run into often is the walls are laid out to efficiently use sheets but the efficiency falls off with the roof due to overhangs and alignment of framing members.

Have you seen the article on dropped vs raised portal beams and wall bowing, I have it here somewhere if not. Also some fairly specific nailing callouts in a portal frame, can it kick out something in a comment or detail?

I like the jamb down low for something to nail to. Superior walls, precast foundations, uses borate treated 2x in those locations. Listen for comments from the deep south though, that is a common termite problem area. If they can hide they will tunnel over treated.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 12, 2016, 09:08:37 AM
The one flaw with portal framed walls is the hinge created at the header and pony wall, that is the reason for the limitation on the pony wall height.  Other engineers hate these things and strongly prefer a conventional shear wall (segmented) design.  Moving the header to the underside of the top plate certainly helps but there is still a hinge issue between the header and the portal frame shear panel.

In this particular case I would probably not portal frame it since my aspect ratio is 3.33 and is less than the 3.5 maximum requirement by the SDPWS.

The only way to align studs and trusses would be to run them at the same spacing however the studs are usually 16" o/c and the trusses are 24" o/c.  With a 24' span the individual load per truss is not going to be egregious and the double top plate in bending should be fine.  However, with a large structure (ie. trusses with spans exceeding 40 ft) this can become a problem and recently on a large garage I had to call out a triple top plate.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 12, 2016, 02:05:09 PM
It probably makes no difference but I do align at the 4' intervals with 16" oc walls and 24" oc rafters/cj's.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 12, 2016, 04:35:56 PM
This is a quick study of a post frame roof using doubled trusses with 2x6 purlins @ 24" o/c.  This is pretty typical for a  pole barn or post frame building constructed locally:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su147_800.jpg&hash=fe97e3a4826a16c5a2a05044a8c2047c)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=0240f563-8350-460d-b07c-9f7dae117782

Notice how the rake and fascia boards are raised above the trusses so that they are flush with the roof plane and purlins.  The overhang can be achieved a number of ways but one method is to extend rafters from an inboard purlin and also attach to the post as shown.  There are a number of other ways to frame the overhang, a quick search online will attest to this.  Sometimes a header is used between posts which allows for a truss spacing which is closer than the post spacing.

Purlins position right at the peak seems fairly standard, based on some plansets that I have.

When you add end walls with posts you can usually eliminate the doubled truss at the gable ends and you often will see a gable end truss that has girts (horiz. members) instead of studs.

With a purlin roof I almost need to create a separate menu item and module to properly deal with it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 12, 2016, 04:44:31 PM
Have you come across any post frame plans with a raised framed floor rather than a slab on grade?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 12, 2016, 05:16:03 PM
I've never seen one in person but I've come across a few pictures online.  Mostly what I've seen is slab on grade or stemwall with slab.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 12, 2016, 05:32:45 PM
I was thinking along the lines of an affordable cabin or small house foundation especially in sloping or remote terrain
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 15, 2016, 12:37:40 AM
Version 1.6.6 - 07.15.2016
- Battens can be offset from the fascia board.
- Battens at peak option enabled.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su148_800.jpg&hash=bd7173316331ddebf33ba5ea4f4362f0)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=e7f7a812-53da-4c57-b40a-b28bbacf96e2

Currently this feature is only available for truss roofs, I still need to add it to hip and gable rafter roofs.

If sheathing is enabled with battens, the battens are placed on top of the sheathing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 21, 2016, 02:52:16 PM
Version 1.6.7 - 07.21.2016
- Added a counter battens option within the battens menu for common, scissor and vaulted trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su149_800.jpg&hash=91838a82095827fc8de26f67e854c830)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=3bb5c81a-ffd0-4f2f-8cf0-34bf6279428e

Counter battens can be applied with our without sheathing.  The counter battens are centered on the trusses below therefore their spacing is not independently controlled.

Based on my research it appears that counter battens are usually only applied when battens are laid on top of a sheathed roof.  However I have left the option open to apply them without the sheathing in case one wanted to apply them directly to the truss top chords over a vapor barrier.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 22, 2016, 10:55:31 AM
I can add another input field into the menu which will allow the offset from the peak:

Offset from Peak (mm):

I can also put in another option that will allow for the equal spacing between peak and eave battens with the spacing input serving as the max. batten spacing if this option is enabled:

Spacing Peak-to-Eave: YES/NO

I think this will then give you the flexibility you need to make this feature actually useful in real world applications.

Another thing to note is that the battens will work with the roof returns option but I currently have no logic in place to deal with the extension at the eave.  I may need to give this some more thought:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su150_800.jpg&hash=b6b7983675253e46ab40982157c3f9a2)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 22, 2016, 12:52:07 PM
Version 1.6.7 - 07.21.2016
- Added a counter battens option within the battens menu for common, scissor and vaulted trusses.
- Battens (at peak) can be offset from peak.
- Peak-to-Eave spacing enabled when "battens at peak" option is selected.

This was a very small update so I just tucked it into the latest revision.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 22, 2016, 03:17:17 PM
I don't remember ever coming across these details in manufacturer instructions but I have seen it built. I have run both over the top of 2x12's with 2x2's for more insulation space as well as 2x2's under the rafters, inside, for the same reason. 2x2's on top of the rafters gives more opportunity for venting problem areas. I think sprayfoam has taken that method away for the most part.

On raised floor post frame, I happened upon this website last nite. Not head over heels with the designs but fully agree with the thinking behind it.
http://www.polehouses.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.display&page_id=19
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 22, 2016, 09:20:32 PM
Latest version is pretty darn cool.  I really like the flexibility in all the options.

I don't remember ever coming across these details in manufacturer instructions but I have seen it built. I have run both over the top of 2x12's with 2x2's for more insulation space as well as 2x2's under the rafters, inside, for the same reason. 2x2's on top of the rafters gives more opportunity for venting problem areas. I think sprayfoam has taken that method away for the most part.

On raised floor post frame, I happened upon this website last nite. Not head over heels with the designs but fully agree with the thinking behind it.
http://www.polehouses.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.display&page_id=19

Don, I'm exploring post frame with raised floor for my Alaska remote cabin.  If you want to share your thoughts they would be welcome.  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=14235.msg188430#msg188430
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 25, 2016, 08:52:32 AM
I've encountered a glitch with the truss generator in that it aborts when doing the outlookers.  I'll try to replicate it tonight, see if I can recreate it with an empty sketch.  What happens currently is I define the rectangle on my top plate corners, and the code generates the trusses at 0,0,0 but has no outlookers.  The gable overhang rafters are there.  All the trusses are individual entities; it seems to bail before making a group and relocating it to the top of the structure.  No error message pops up.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 25, 2016, 08:55:17 AM
Turn on the Ruby Console under the Window Menu and then cut and paste the error message(s) when you replicate the error.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 25, 2016, 06:43:27 PM
Turn on the Ruby Console under the Window Menu and then cut and paste the error message(s) when you replicate the error.

Thanks for the tip!  Replicated this in an empty sketch tonight.
Code: [Select]
Error: #<ArgumentError: Cannot convert argument to Sketchup::Point3d>c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5187:in add'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5187:in getExtents'Error: #<NoMethodError: undefined method x' for nil:NilClass>c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5616:in draw'Error: #<ArgumentError: comparison of Fixnum with nil failed>c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:3543:in <'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:3543:in draw_advoptions_common'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:1184:in draw_truss_selector'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:488:in main_menu'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5105:in calculate_obj'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5124:in update_state'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5170:in onUserText'
I'm running Linux Mint 17.x and using Wine to run the Windows version of Sketchup.  Except for an occasional graphics quirk it runs nice.  Anyhoo, this is a set of scissor trusses with raised heel.  Asked for a gable overhang with structural outlookers.

Screencast of the error is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFzFbYzTew&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on July 28, 2016, 09:28:29 AM
Following up on the outlooker bug on scissor trusses, when I do not make the outlooker structural the script works exactly as it should.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 30, 2016, 08:06:50 PM
I haven't had any time this week or even this weekend to dive back into it yet but the icons for the Medeek Tools Menu (trim and extend for now) will look like this:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 30, 2016, 08:09:08 PM
Following up on the outlooker bug on scissor trusses, when I do not make the outlooker structural the script works exactly as it should.

Sorry I've been down in Vancouver working all last week, haven't had any access to my desktop and debugging tools.  I need to know the configuration you chose for the scissor truss (ie. 2/2, 4/4 etc...).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on August 01, 2016, 09:51:03 PM
I had the glitch on 2/2, 4/4, and 6/6 scissor trusses.  I wasn't even getting the script to run on 4/2 and 6/4 trusses.  Was.  Unrelated to this I rebooted my computer and have also disabled the Maxwell rendering extension in Sketchup.  I now have no problem generating the trusses with structural outlookers.  Sorry for the false alarm, I should have taken the rote IT guy first response to any technical problem, "Have you rebooted your computer?"

Well... just to be thorough I thought I would try out the 4/2 and 6/4 trusses.  I just did, and it keeps looping between the first dialog and the interactive rear corner selection.  This isn't an issue for me, just thought I'd flag it.  Of course, I don't know if it's just my odd system configuration.  Here's a capture from the Ruby console:
Code: [Select]
Error: #<ArgumentError: Cannot convert argument to Sketchup::Point3d>c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5187:in add'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5187:in getExtents'Error: #<NoMethodError: undefined method x' for nil:NilClass>c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5616:in draw'Error: #<NoMethodError: undefined method create_scissor_42_geometry_rhvert' for #<Class:0x000000313ea090>>c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_scissor_roof_truss.rbs:223:in get_truss_geometry_scissor'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:217:in main_menu'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5105:in calculate_obj'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5124:in update_state'c:/users/earle/application data/sketchup/sketchup 2015/sketchup/plugins/medeek_truss_ext/medeek_roof_truss.rbs:5170:in onUserText'
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 20, 2016, 02:55:42 PM
Version 1.6.8 - 08.20.2016
- Added the Medeek Tools toolbar with Trim and Extend icons.
- Added the trim function for (solid) groups and components.

Only the trim function currently works with this latest release.  I'm also not completely satisfied with the trim function as it tends to break down when dealing with components that have tranformed instances.  I am still working on this one.  The main reason I've released it is for a few of my SketchUp mentors to have the ability to test the trim function and hopefully help me work the bugs out of it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 20, 2016, 09:31:48 PM
I've created a SketchUp model tonight using the truss and foundation plugins to further examine a structural design I am working on.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su152_800.jpg&hash=1bf4017906c3d9034d618d6d096b3e5e)

I think I will probably add a TJI roof that allows one to use two glulam beams with cantilevered rafters as shown in this model, this configuration seems to be fairly popular.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on August 21, 2016, 03:02:03 AM
Wow you guys tie stuff well. Does wind or seismic control the window wall? Tell me about the outlooker to tji connection also how the flange reacts when the overhang is loaded. One other thing I noticed in a quick spin through the model is the window headers framed "normally" rather than continuing to the corner. Is there a reason for one over the other in this case? Noticed the blocking behind the posts to tie them to the 2nd floor well. I assume that is a beveled dimensional lumber cant strip nailed on top of the glulams. I have built similar facing south to catch a view, that turned out to be not the best idea. Million dollar view but too much light and heat and difficult to shade the upper windows.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 04, 2016, 12:18:25 PM
Again I apologize for the delay in development, first it was my new job and then I re-injured my rotator cuff (old injury from 10 years ago) which has made sitting at my desk for prolonged periods very difficult.

This morning I sat down and thought about hip sets since I've had some recent requests for the their addition to the plugin.  What I show below is a fairly standard step down hip set with, with the midwest variant shown at one corner and the standard variant at the other corner.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=aa9db54b-4a66-412e-86fd-94e3e676e0b5

Note, I have not shown all of the internal webs for clarity, those will be generated automatically and not be user definable.

Please review carefully and let me know if anything looks amiss.  I will also be adding in other variants of the hip set but I figured I would start with these two.

A stepdown hip set provides a girder truss, with a hip jack truss running from the corners up the ridge until they meet the hip girder.

The Midwest hip set also provides a girder truss, with hip trusses that step up to the peak.
However in a Midwest hip set, you run a rafter (dropped) up from the corner of the front wall to the hip girder.
All the bottom chords of the end jacks run to the hip girder, allowing for better attachment of the drywall on the ceiling.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 05, 2016, 03:21:16 PM
This is the Northeast Hip Set variant:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su154_800.jpg&hash=3bb5e45886f909f221f26f6e235570a3)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=7a091720-b221-4b49-b59b-f797f95211e6

In a northeast hip set, you will find a short jack truss starting at the corner and running up the hip ridge. This hip jack stops at a sub-girder. All end jack bottom chords run to the hip girder, allowing for better attachment of the drywall on the ceiling. Hip cats must be field cut and installed between the hip trusses. Works well with dual-pitched hip systems.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 05, 2016, 07:34:27 PM
This is the California Hip Set:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su155_800.jpg&hash=a0c356e877fb89c20f4167c506a8fb20)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=c17f8767-de27-44bd-b589-fbb186ea09fc

The problem I am having with this variant is the conflict between the 2x6 hip rafter and the top chords of the step down hip trusses.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on September 06, 2016, 02:15:40 AM
I see the problem there but don't have enough truss hip experience to be of any help.
I'm sure you know, don't push into the shoulder pain. Its not a no pain no gain thing... rest and take care of it, you have a long path ahead  :).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 08, 2016, 04:26:11 AM
The revised california hip set with a stacked hip rafter:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su156_800.jpg&hash=c4379086b66caf6a8f853dde5a770a6f)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=97644895-c988-435c-bdc4-c7b8956a6d46
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 08, 2016, 11:37:25 AM
A stepdown or midwest hip set with a drop-in purlin frame:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su157_800.jpg&hash=712df35e4081ac6071b477b871e586c6)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=5d01af7e-a966-42c2-8355-88b5964e6d8c

There is some minor conflicts at the top chord of the frame with the hip trusses and at the peak but I don't think it is worth worrying about.

I have found that for manual editing of members the "trim" function is becoming a very valuable tool, it has already saved me a lot of time when adjusting webs and chords as I adjust or drop some of the hip truss top chords.  I strongly suggest that everyone upgrade to the latest version (1.6.8) to take advantage of the improved trim function.  I now need to get the extend function working.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 09, 2016, 01:45:39 PM
A smaller (16' span) standard terminal hip set attached to the main roof with girder truss and valley set.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su158_800.jpg&hash=d1b4e1a4477f010d32b8481a3e36f0de)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=beb29cf5-e571-42ab-8df5-526793a49332

The addition of the hip sets into the plugin will allow the creation of more complex hip roofs with minimal manual intervention.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 10, 2016, 07:14:23 AM
I now just need to hunker down and get some heavy coding done to make all of these hip set variants a reality.  Once I have one the rest will fall out fairly easily since the overall logic for all the variants are quite similar.  I've spent the last 2-3 days reviewing some texts and shop drawings to make sure I've got things more or less correct with my models/templates.  So far no one has complained too loudly about any of the configurations so I think it is now time to proceed and add the hip sets into the plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 14, 2016, 02:46:25 PM
Version 1.6.9 - 09.14.2016
- Added some enhancements and wireframe (temporary) graphics to the valley set function.
- Fixed bug in the trim function.
- Fixed bug in the roof battens option.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 27, 2016, 04:55:36 AM
I've been slowly working on the stepdown hip truss set.  Its been a bit more complicated than expected.  I've also decided to make it auto select the common truss type by span but also allow the user to manually select the common truss type as well, yet another level of complexity.  In addition I would also like to enable raised heels which again adds to the complexity of the required logic and amount of code required to make this work.

The user will be able to select the hip setback.  This is usually 3x or 4x the truss spacing (ie. 6ft, 8ft with 24" o/c truss spacing).  I could restrict this to some multiple of the truss spacing but I think I will leave it completely open ended for the user.

Once I have the initial module complete I will then add into the advanced options the ability to use a drop-in purlin frame.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 27, 2016, 04:28:39 PM
A bit more complicated than expected... I need that on a Tshirt  :D

If things have a default setup that is then easily adjustable I imagine that would get someone going quicker than having to make a guess at what is most common for their first runs through.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 14, 2016, 06:50:59 AM
This is an example of the wireframe (temporary) graphic that is shown while creating a valley set.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su159_800.jpg&hash=60acb33f008c429ec54643393682e9cc)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 19, 2016, 09:19:35 AM
I've repackaged the .rbz file this morning so that when it installs into SU 2017 the extension will have the appropriate hash file and appear as "signed".  I have not yet rolled the revision (1.7.0) which includes the updates for stepdown hip truss sets, there is still substantial work before I am ready to release that module and version.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 04, 2016, 12:04:54 PM
The "Layers" tab in the global settings will look something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su160_800.jpg&hash=2eaaf00d529329b5df2cb718f6fe566e)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 04, 2016, 05:45:37 PM
Version 1.7.0 - 12.04.2016
- Added a "Layers" tab within the global settings; roof, wall and floor components can be assigned to specific layers.
- Enabled custom layers for the common fink truss.

Note that I have only enabled custom layers for one type of common truss (fink).  To enable custom layers for all other truss types, rafter roofs and other misc. items will take a few hours of going through each module of the plugin and adding in the "layers" code or conditional statements.  My arm/neck is not holding up very well but I thought it would be nice to at least get this out there for the most common truss type for testing purposes and feedback.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 05, 2016, 08:12:18 PM
I've really only been working on the truss plugin for about a year now and there is a lot more to be done as well as two more plugins that I am hoping to get started on into the new year:

Medeek Structural Plugin

Medeek Wall Plugin

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FWALL_PLUGIN_ICON_FILLED.png&hash=3094fbbf2f0b13342da05e69005c7d83)

The structural plugin will deal less with the actual framing geometry and more specifically with the lateral and vertical engineering of the structure.  It will be geared toward other structural engineers with the intent to automate residential structural engineering as much as possible.

Lateral:
Wood Shear Walls (segmented and perforated), Diaphragms (roof)
Vertical:
Beams, Headers, Joists, Rafters, Footings, Posts, I-Joists,
Uplift:
Rafters, Trusses

What will make this the killer app is that the 3D model will be able to automatically propagate the loads down through the structure while at the same time allowing the user to create the structure's geometry in an intuitive and friendly 3D environment - SketchUp.

Of course the real power of such a plugin only becomes apparent when you create a model and then decide to build that same house or structure in a different location with different site criteria.  Rather than having to start from scratch you simply enter in the new wind speed, ground snow load, and seismic design criteria into the model and the plugin recalculates the entire structure and then alerts you on any members that are undersized or over stressed.  This would be particularly beneficial to homebuilders who have a set number of model homes they use but build in various locations.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 06, 2016, 03:46:41 AM
You've done a lot in a short time, I'm constantly impressed with how this has developed. Take the time to take care of you, that neck/ shoulder thing will not improve with age and can begin to distract what is obviously a wonderful mind... don't let that happen. A PT or OT can probably help strengthen those areas and keep you productive.

The upcoming plugins sound interesting, the structural calc would be downright awesome. Have you approached Trimble? I wonder if they would help with development.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 08, 2016, 02:16:27 PM
I've had a number of people asking about adding in the connector plates for the trusses.  After giving this some thought it doesn't seem like too much work to implement.  I will try and work on this today and this evening.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su161_800.jpg&hash=3a751f834bf4b486b89e80ac0e82718e)

Plate thickness can be set by the user (inches or mm).  The default will be 0.0575 inches (1.46 mm) which is the total thickness of a typical Mitek M-16 connector plate:

http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ESR-1311.pdf

If I could find some additional help for programming that would be useful right now.  I've come to the realization that I cannot realistically program all of the stuff I have planned.  I really need to expand this beyond a one man show.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 08, 2016, 08:59:03 PM
Version 1.7.1 - 12.08.2016
- Added truss connector plates within the global settings, plate thickness can be specified.
- Added a "roof_mpc" layer for roof truss plates, connector plates can be assigned to a specific layer.
- Enabled metal plate connectors for the common fink truss.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su162_800.jpg&hash=bdf16afce05441314a2813871e2e4608)

As with the recent layer upgrade I have only enabled connector plates for the common fink truss.  This is to provide a test bed for the connectors then once the interface is fined tuned I will roll it out for all truss types.

At the moment the plate sizes are hard coded in.  I am still trying to decide on the best method to use so that the connector plates can all be sized by the user.  The objective is to make this a flexible as possible while at the same time not over complicating things.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=8e1d46c3-e1e2-4bc9-b16b-69aa1085c8d1
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 09, 2016, 06:11:11 AM
What I think I will do is add in one more option in the global settings which allows one to toggle the plate sizing to either auto or manual.

If auto is selected I will create a basic algorithm that looks at the truss span, truss pitch and depth of the TC, BC and webs and then sizes the plates accordingly.  I already have such an algorithm built into my Truss Designer here:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl

If manual is selected I will have an additional html input screen appear that shows the location and size of each plate as well as the outline of the truss.  The input will look similar to this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su125_800.jpg&hash=4ed2ef698752483a311005a9412252c3)

As each plate is adjusted it will immediately change in size showing exactly the configuration of the truss with its connector plates.  This involve quite a bit more coding however once I create one such html input, creating more will not be such a big deal.  Each plate will be labeled P1, P2, P3 etc...  Typically the location and rotation of each plate will have an optimal setting that does not need user input or adjustment.

The only question now is how to handle the gable end trusses.  I think for now I will auto-size the plates on them using the same heel and peak plate sizes as the common trusses.  For the the vertical studs I can use an algorithm that looks at stud length and then chooses either a 1.5x3 or 2x4 plate for connection to the top and bottom chords.

Adding connector plates adds a whole new level of complexity, but there have been enough requests for it that I think it is a valid endeavor.  After all this is the "Truss Plugin" and I might as well get the trusses right.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 10, 2016, 02:12:09 AM
Enabled connector plates for the common gable truss:

There gets to be quite a bit of geometry when you start modeling all of the plates, especially the gable trusses with all of their vertical studs.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=0f1b6741-f503-43e9-a627-663ceabec33b
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 10, 2016, 03:18:01 AM
As an interesting side note, one can turn off the truss layer and then measure the volume of the steel plates which yields 113.85 in3.  Multiply this by 0.284 for mild steel and you end up with a total weight of 32.3 lbs.  That is actually quite a bit of steel plates in this rather small truss package.  No wonder the truss plate manufacturers like Mitek make so much money on the sale of truss plates, the volume of steel is definitely there (194 plates).

The weight of the wood can just as easily be computed, making an assumption on the wood species (G, specific gravity of the wood), and moisture content (typically 19% at dry service conditions).

The appropriate equation to use for the density of wood can be found in the AWC NDS:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/documents/NDS2012_SUPPLEMENT_P12.pdf

For DF No. 2 the density would be 34.2 lbs/ft3

The volume of the wood is 22.06 ft3, multipled by 34.2 lbs/ft3 yields a total weight of the wood at 754.5 lbs.  Steel plus Wood = 786.8 lbs.

It may be useful to provide weight information at both the truss component level and the entire truss assembly, wood, steel and total weight.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2016, 10:59:06 AM
Enabled metal plate connectors for the 4/4 and 6/4 scissor trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su164_800.jpg&hash=af2942e8bbc57c65dafde862ba93bfbd)

Each truss type and configuration needs its own special function to locate and auto-size each plate.  The code required is not difficult since most of it can be recycled but it is still time consuming to generate for each and every truss type with all of the many possible configurations.  I have not even considered raised heel trusses yet.  At some locations (ie. heel plates on a scissor truss) the truss configuration may cause the plate to fall outside of the perimeter of the truss in this case some additional logic is required to check for these instances.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=16954124-d987-4a72-be11-5089a6be6221
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2016, 11:32:59 AM
When it comes to plates and connectors there is also the bolted plate connected trusses with larger timber members used for more architectural and ornamental work.  I am wondering if there is any interest in having a separate module for those truss types?

Something along these lines:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0432%2F5985%2Ft%2F2%2Fassets%2Fslideshow_2.jpg%3F3062143040596805956&hash=d552dfb498278f7c08ab8891494c2e75)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forestryforum.com%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F12957%2FPict0309a.jpg&hash=8e0da5f189aa86d9ecdcab5327ec2659)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 11, 2016, 02:56:02 PM
... Oh yeah!  [cool]
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2016, 07:24:01 PM
The current TODO list:

1.  Hip Sets (Stepdown, California, Midwest, Northeast, Terminal) with and without drop-in purlin frames as applicable. Hip truss algorithm per June 15, 2016 post.
2.  Flat Trusses with html input.
3.  Barrel Vault, Clerestory, Studio Vault, and Double Inverted trusses.
4.  Html menus for each truss type.
5.  Update the manual and create more video tutorials.
6.  Extend connector plates and layers to each truss and roof type.
7.  Open Joist Floor Trusses.
8.  Polygon entry for floor trusses/joists versus currently available rectangular assemblies, also add in a function to cut a hole in the floor for a stair way or other opening. See Jul. 2, 2016 post.
9.  Dutch and Half Hip truss sets (See Jun. 14, 2016 post).
10.  Gable roof with solid sawn beam.
11.  Gable roof with "two" glulam or solid sawn beams. (cantilevered rafters).
12.  Html menu for each truss type for manual connector plate sizing.
13.  Add the roof to the gable dormer, see June 19, 2016 post.
14.  Hip and Shed Dormer.
15.  Gable, Hip and Dutch Gable Roof Minor.
16.  Engineering for Rafters, Joists and Sheathing.
17.  Bring the truss and beam engineering into the plugin versus an external link to my engineering site.  This would require porting all of my Perl code into Ruby.
18.  Add a dual pitch gable rafter roof.
19.  Add raised heels to each truss type that currently does not have this feature.
20.  Finish adding bird blocking option.
21.  PDF or HTML output (printable) showing details of a truss assembly (ie. shop drawings and layout)
22.  Update order system allowing \$20 yearly license renewal.
23.  Further investigate materials (colors) for specific layers.
24.  Allow "editing" of a truss, floor or roof assembly.
25.  Timber trusses (with bolted plates).
26.  Complex hip roofs, this is related to roof minors (item 15).  Need to devise a straight skeleton algorithm.
27.  Integrate more tightly with other plugins as opportunity arises (ie. Estimator etc...)
28.  Gable end trusses for gambrel attic and attic trusses.
29.  Complete all configurations of each truss type and verify that each advanced option is correctly working (ie. polynesian truss needs more configurations).
30.  Add gable and full returns to the roof return option, currently only the hip return is available.
31.  Transition trusses.
32.  The Trim function seems to be working now I need to work on the Extend function.
33.  Steel and hybrid steel floor trusses.
34.  Explore adding in a stairway module and deck module, however these may become part of the upcoming Wall Plugin.
35.  In the advanced options for gambrel attic trusses create an option for a crow's beak, see June 20, 2016 post.

I know I'm missing a few items that I have on one of my paper lists but I can't find it right now.

The question is, other than item 1, what are the highest priority items on this list?

I've been basically sidelined since end of August so I am anxious to get this operation (neck) done with and over and really begin again in earnest to advance the development of the plugin.

My new job keeps me busy but not so busy that I can't spend a few hours each night plugging away at this list and weekends are certainly my friend in that regard.

Please feel free to let me know what other items should be added to the list.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Rys on December 12, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
I'd love to see shed dormers.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on December 12, 2016, 01:40:40 PM
Looks ambitious.   :)

Best wishes on the upcoming surgery.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 14, 2016, 05:29:47 PM
I need to review some of my old files (local residential designs) to get a better idea of timber truss designs but out of curiosity I attempted to manually create a sample timber truss to see how long it took me create one.  About an hour into it I had come up with this:

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=355ab1aa-b040-4fca-a5c2-393f49bf71d8

Specifications:

- King Post truss with 4:12 pitch, 12" overhang and 1/4" buttcut, span 28'
- 6x10 Timbers (TC, BC, King Post)
- 3/8" Thick Connector Plates
- 5/8" DIA. Heavy Hex Nuts and Bolts
- 2 Rows of Bolts
- 4.5" between rows of bolts
- 4" bolt spacing between bolts in a row
- Plates offset from timber by 3/4"
- Bolts offset from end of plates by 2"
- Bolts offset from edge of plates by 1.5"
- No washers

This particular connector plate configuration uses two additional bolts at the apex of the heel plates, many other variations are possible.

Please feel free to comment.  This example is just a concept to give me a better idea of the design parameters and issues with this type of truss.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 15, 2016, 04:14:57 AM
I start coming undone with group action, eccentricity of the bolted plate connection and splitting. Do keep fabrication as simple as possible. I could forsee sawing plates with an abrasive blade onsite. Plywood connected lightweight trusses are another.

I hope the surgery goes well and brings relief, keep us posted on how you're doing.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 15, 2016, 05:15:45 AM
Yes, the big day is today.  Surgery at 10:00AM in Olympia (Olympia Orthopedics), replacing the C6-C7 disk with an artificial disk.  A little nervous about the whole thing, this being my first major surgery or procedure.  The Doctor who is doing my surgery has done almost a hundred of these and fusions though so I'm pretty comfortable he should get it right.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 15, 2016, 01:17:12 PM
Out of surgery, sore.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 15, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
Wow, you're already upright! Good deal. I know that disc. Hoping for a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Adam Roby on December 15, 2016, 06:03:39 PM
I had lower discs done summer before last, and I was in no condition to be posting stuff on any forum - you should really rest.
Took me about 7 weeks before I could really walk right, was a slow process.  Hardest for me were the meds, I am super sensitive to any pain killers so I couldn't really take them, but then the pain would be too intense... it was a delicate balance of cutting the pills in 4 and dosing myself as I saw fit.

Hope you have a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 15, 2016, 06:32:09 PM
I've got a neck brace on so its pretty much immobilzed, but  your right I'm going to take a break for about a week and lay low.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on December 15, 2016, 06:41:39 PM
Take it easy and do follow the doctors' instructions; do's and don'ts
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: azgreg on December 16, 2016, 06:13:23 AM
Get well buddy.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 16, 2016, 07:16:13 AM
Version 1.7.2 - 12.16.2016
- Enabled custom layers for roof returns, battens and counter battens.
- License renewal enabled in Medeek Account Manager.

Feeling much better today, even though it still hurts to swallow.  Back at it, programming is just too addictive to leave for too long.  I'm not too worried about over doing it since the neck brace keeps me from any movement, I just can't do things that require me to twist my neck around like driving or any sort of sports etc...

I like the new addition of the layers, it helps being able to hide certain aspects of the model.  This has led me to think it might be useful to somehow implement materials (colors, textures), either at the layer level or based on the geometry (ie. specific color or texture for the I-joist web -> OSB wood).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su14_800.jpg&hash=e732468c905f0ac192c57a6a1491c6cc)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 17, 2016, 07:46:36 PM
Version 1.7.3 - 12.17.2016
- Added a "Materials" tab within the global settings; Auto material assigment (colors and textures) is now an option.
- Enabled materials and custom layers for floor trusses and joists.
- Enabled materials for common trusses: metal plate connectors, lumber, and OSB.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su168_800.jpg&hash=31068d6d98dfbab3c2edd93c07002d39)

By default the metal plate connectors, custom layers and auto materials is turned off in the global settings.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 18, 2016, 12:45:07 PM
- Enabled metal plate connectors for floor trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su169_800.jpg&hash=287727f0d4735efe6a6a7411f7db42c6)

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 19, 2016, 11:35:38 AM
Looking through some old plans I've managed to dig up I came upon a couple of designs by another engineering firm.

Typically when I've dealt with truss designs I always seen a scarf cut on the bottom chord with the top chord remaining un-notched.  In this other example the bottom chord is kept intact and the top chord is scarf cut or notched, while still allowing a continuous section to extend for the overhang with a depth equal to at least 1/2 the top chord depth.  I think the picture below explains this far better than I can with words:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FTIMBER_TRUSS2.jpg&hash=7914c61be22b3783b7d22b532097fcb2)

For MPC trusses I am used to seeing a 1/4" butt cut, however for timber trusses what is more appropriate?

Which method above would go with (arch. and structural reasons)?

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=6d3633a4-3b5c-4b9f-9780-23be5230c66d
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 19, 2016, 01:28:25 PM
Plates applied to the top truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FTIMBER_TRUSS3.jpg&hash=c4324740d0eb94bd0263a9ede249b727)

Specs:

- Truss Type: King Post
- 6x10 TC, 6x8 BC, 6x6 kingpost
- Plate thickness = 0.25"
- single row of bolts with two bolts per row.
- connector plate width = 4.0"
- Bolt Dia. 3/4"
- Bolt Edge Distance (timber) = 4.0"
- Bolt Edge Distance (plate) = 2.0"
- Bolt Spacing = 4.0"
- Bolts and Washers not shown.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ed8f688c-a1a2-4c2a-b09a-8ee937060922
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 19, 2016, 06:41:29 PM
Top model right heel is how I do it in timberframe.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fkingheel.jpg&hash=1af8d00ce08ee03f12e6856fd6283cce)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fsketches%2Fkingpost1.jpg&hash=1dbb5593a7eca5abf0bd030b52251c86)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 19, 2016, 06:54:38 PM
What do you call that little wedge shaped cut?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 19, 2016, 07:08:23 PM
I still call it a birdsmouth. It's face is sized for end grain compression x Hankinson, I tried to bisect the angle. To the right there needs to be enough shear area. There is allthread and big washers across this joint, your plate does that. The bird is absorbing the rotation in the plate that looks like it wants to induce splitting in the bolt rows.
This is another way I played with it
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Ftf%2Fkingsteelheel.jpg&hash=c8b145309b9a23fe418799fb6ea5594b)

Here's another example of that birdsmouth method from above
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Ftf%2Fshopheel.jpg&hash=c7723eac76d57af7a5bbf13a396829c7)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 19, 2016, 07:21:31 PM
OT but I remembered this crosspipe joint, I mocked it up after reading a research paper. It's supposed to be an easier heeljoint thrust restraint. I didn't really think it was any faster or better but more grist for the mill;

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Ftf%2Fcrosspipe.jpg&hash=f2d2ce72ebc4c26021e5d6de2ee2ee47)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 19, 2016, 10:10:04 PM
This particular joint on a gambrel attic roof I am finding particularly difficult to plate:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su170_800.jpg&hash=f3c209602418993b0e2c95eed78d11f9)

Luckily I have a few samples to use as guides.  Given my web configurations at this joint this seems to be the most reasonable method to plate this joint.  Note that the plate  should touch the interior corner and the exterior of the lower top chord but at the same time not project past the lumber into the spaces.  Also the plate is rotated so that it is parallel to the upper top chords pitch.

The algorithm I devised to do this is quite clever I think but can be boiled down to a few concise lines of code:

Code: [Select]
  # Plate 2 (Gambrel Left) x2 = @W2x2 - (mpcyy)/(sin(@Phi2)) y2 = @W2y2 m2 = tan(@Phi2) x1 = @X2 y1 = @Y2 m1 = tan(@Phi1) x0 = (y2 - y1 - m2*x2 + m1*x1)/(m1 - m2) y0 = y1 + m1*(x0 - x1) xoffset = (mpcxx/2.0)*(cos(@Phi2)) + (mpcyy/2.0)*(sin(@Phi2)) yoffset = (mpcxx/2.0)*(sin(@Phi2)) - (mpcyy/2.0)*(cos(@Phi2)) mpcx = x0 + xoffset mpcy = y0 + yoffset mpcrot = -@Phi2 MedeekMethods.metal_plate mpcx, mpcy, mpcxx, mpcyy, mpcrot, "PLGL" # Plate 2 (Gambrel Right) mpcx = @X5 - mpcx mpcy = mpcy mpcrot = @Phi2 MedeekMethods.metal_plate mpcx, mpcy, mpcxx, mpcyy, mpcrot, "PLGR"
This joint has been the most difficult so far, everything else has been cake.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 20, 2016, 09:00:26 PM
Version 1.7.4 - 12.20.2016
- Enabled metal plate connectors for gambrel attic trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su171_800.jpg&hash=ceb0d8585c3233a04e6be38247de6bcd)

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 24, 2016, 09:35:14 AM
Version 1.7.5 - 12.24.2016
- Enabled metal plate connectors for valley truss sets.
- Enabled materials and custom layers for valley truss sets.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su172_800.jpg&hash=df6e3ee5a7b9d645f4f4fba88532faee)

Merry Christmas to all.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 26, 2016, 08:21:57 PM
Version 1.7.6 - 12.26.2016
- Enabled metal plate connectors for monopitch trusses.
- Enabled materials and custom layers for monopitch trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su173_800.jpg&hash=b285414707fb76ac6c0e8ed51cc782f9)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=40819b39-458c-4e87-8a5e-fe16982dfe1d
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 31, 2016, 12:48:27 PM
Version 1.7.7 - 12.31.2016
- Enabled materials and custom layers for gable, hip, shed, TJI and dutch gable rafter roofs.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 02, 2017, 01:30:00 PM
Version 1.7.8 - 01.02.2017
- Enabled materials and custom layers for gable dormers.
- Added advanced options for gable dormers, enabled exterior wall sheathing option.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su175_800.jpg&hash=af202ef0610a9699e9faea681f652d49)

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 02, 2017, 05:27:51 PM
This is an example of custom layers and materials implemented in the Medeek Truss Plugin and Medeek Foundation Plugin and used in one model:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su176_800.jpg&hash=e5164677b56ba448da3ac04068e511ce)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=5ff9d1dc-7384-4c7f-bc8a-915c2cd3fc6c

Turn off the sheathing layers first to reveal all of the structural framing etc...

Regular walls were created with the Housebuilder plugin.

The trim tool in the Truss Plugin was used quite successfully to manually trim back the dormer roof framing and sheathing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 14, 2017, 09:13:21 AM
Spent some time this morning traversing through the common truss code updating some of the truss types so that I can enable energy/raised heels for all common trusses as well as enable custom layers, materials and connector plates.

As I've developed the plugin and added new features I used the fink truss as the cutting edge, so everything having to do with this truss type is pretty much up-to-date, however some of the other truss types are seriously lagging so a little house cleaning is in order.

It may be a few days before I can release this latest version since there is a lot of tedious work ahead.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 15, 2017, 07:23:21 AM
Raised/Energy heels add another level of complexity to the equation.  Below you can see that various heights of a raised heel on a simple King Post truss requires different configurations and hence separate plating routines:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su177_800.jpg&hash=c369cdc8b43cbae226e3d042c4e3383c)

This also affects the gable trusses as well, below is a fink truss with its gable counterpart:

View models here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=91d8d78a-8e6c-4dab-9839-4d689c84c297
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=89739563-049f-4277-bfca-75663724967e

I'm still house cleaning.  I've now got the King Post and Fink truss fully cleaned up with connector plates enabled for all possible configurations (raised heel, non-raised heel, structural, non-structural).  I've only got 10 more common truss types to work through, see list below:

Queen Post
Howe
Fan
Mod Queen
Double Fink
Double Howe
Mod Fan
Triple Fink
Triple Howe

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 15, 2017, 11:14:03 AM
Version 1.7.9 - 01.15.2017
- Enabled metal plate connectors, materials and custom layers for the common king post and howe trusses.
- Added energy/raised heels for howe truss (3 variants: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Metal plate connectors now enabled for king post, fink and howe raised heel/energy trusses.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 15, 2017, 05:20:45 PM
I'm still investigating "real world" applications of the plugin to determine where the weakness and deficiencies are.  Here is an example combining a dutch gable rafter roof with some raised heel trusses.  Now that the raised heel feature is fully active for many of the common trusses it is actually quite easy to measure and then match the heel height of the rafters.

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/getpubliccontent?contentId=cc8bdb7c-d8a4-46a7-b9ff-88ac60c6ec07)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=461e63b6-4965-4697-b864-a9fbe464d53a

I am interested in how others are actually using the plugin and where it is falling down for you, please feel free to send me models or post on the forum with your "real world" design issues with regards to the plugin.  This will help drive future development and prioritize the more important items on the todo list.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 16, 2017, 03:28:28 AM
Sweet, that will make it easier to tune in the overhangs and fascias between roofs. On a complex roof I'll start from the fascia line fairly often and work backwards from there.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 16, 2017, 07:48:22 PM
Raised heel double fink truss with connector plates:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su180_800.jpg&hash=80a90e242ef973dfe6e7dd992097d7cd)

I added this one today and will roll it into verson 1.7.9b.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 17, 2017, 04:57:44 AM
Another item I have been putting off is the heel blocking.  I'm planning on offering two variants (vertical and angled), with the option to draw in the ventilation holes (typically 2" in diameter in my region, with 3 holes per 24" o/c spacing) if desired:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su181_800.jpg&hash=805c2834cd263596c7bbbbcffedc0f16)

Obviously this is not a hot item since no one has bugged me about it but I have not forgotten it, just put it aside up until now.

With raised heels this may become a bit more complicated requiring more options, (ie. a V-cut instead of the typical bird holes).  More input from builders would be useful in this regard.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 17, 2017, 04:56:48 PM
We typically do boxed soffits so I run the blocking short heighthwise 1.5-2".
Raised heels will get into where lateral bracing is required, if possible it might not be a bad idea to have the program alert you.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 20, 2017, 09:32:54 PM
I've got the plywood material working quite well in the plugin, and the ability to toggle between it and OSB in the global settings.  I have a few more other features and edits and then maybe I will role a revision tomorrow or Sunday.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su183_800.jpg&hash=f2bf26832fcd4a4e639fbedafb9a9935)

I actually like the plywood look much better than the OSB.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 22, 2017, 07:24:18 AM
OSB or Plywood will now be an option for the floor sheathing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su184_800.jpg&hash=c1d05b6342a644e7cd8e375917a414d9)

The new sheathing tab in the global settings:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su185_800.jpg&hash=2255f75b70e640cc28a7bf970e5be446)

As time goes on I will probably add in more options for wall cladding and interior wall cladding (ie. gypsum) as well as the ceiling logic I discussed in a previous post.

I'm now working on the gable end wall sheathing option and the roof cladding option.

There are also two new options in the "General" tab which allow one to toggle the default setting for gable end trusses and advanced options (roof, floor etc...).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 22, 2017, 12:54:39 PM
Version 1.8.0- 01.22.2017
- Enabled roof cladding for common trusses.
- Added nine "IKO Cambridge" architectural shingle colors into the roof cladding material library.
- Added "plywood" material for roof and floor sheathing.
- Added a "Sheathing" tab into the global settings.
- Added entries in the "General" tab of the global settings to toggle default settings for gable end trusses and advanced options.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su186_800.jpg&hash=6404d26886f2d626fe9f33c44aef5d51)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=408cd4f0-26b0-416f-bcd0-c14e5565c97a

Initially I was just going to texture the exterior face of the sheathing for the roof cladding but then I realized that there may be cases where there is roof cladding but not sheathing or vice versa.  In the end I went with a separate layer, material and extrusion for the roof cladding, this allows one to get more granular with the structure and in my mind closer to reality.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 22, 2017, 04:02:57 PM
Trying to find a good wood shake or shingle roof texture, this one is pretty good except for a bit of banding:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su187_800.jpg&hash=8d4f5686f76d76967b92b6520fc77cfb)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 26, 2017, 06:09:42 AM
Thinking about sheathing and cladding advanced option for the valley truss set.  Typically the valley truss set is placed on top of the main roof sheathing:

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=c8b9995c-1649-4f2a-a769-9fdb685d0913

If I create the sheathing and cladding just right then it will be easy for the user to manually trim the secondary roof sheathing and cladding with my trim tool and then optionally union them up with the built in Union tool.  I may need to make a video showing exactly how to perform this task.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2017, 11:44:06 AM
The valley truss set now has sheathing and cladding added as an option.  You still have to manually trim the secondary roof's sheathing and cladding and then union it to the valley set's but with the trim tool this is very simple to do:

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=164baabf-f312-42b5-a1a9-97e7d8557dcf
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2017, 01:00:14 PM
Here is the example building with the various layers in an animation.

https://youtu.be/uleFjJ5UQjk
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2017, 05:27:31 PM
Call me crazy but I want to build something like this on my 10 acres so I can see all the way to the beach.

Given my wind speed (155mph ult.) and seismic zone (D2) I am probably looking at some serious holdowns at the first level (HDU 11).  I would have to run the numbers but it would probably work.  I would probably also sheath it with 5/8" plywood inside and out for some serious shearwall action, at least on the the first two floors.  I would probably also frame the first two floor with DF No.2 2x8 studs or 2x6 studs at 12" o/c.  I'm thinking spiral staircases between levels to save as much floor space as possible and to make it more interesting.  Minimal windows on the first three levels and then the top level would have a lot of windows for the view.  11-7/8 TJI 210 for the floors with 3/4 sheathing T&G, 16" o/c.

The structure is 16'x16' with grade to top plate height of 38'8".

The roof is 6:12 pyramid hip with 2x8 rafters, I may go with a steeper pitch though.

On a structure like this overturning is a serious threat, I would need to check the dead weight of the structure and see if the seismic or wind forces could potentially lift the foundation right out of the ground.  The solution is to increase the dead weight of the structure especially at the base, by upsizing the footing and stemwall.  You will notice my stemwall is 10" thick, 36" deep and a 24"x12" footing, even this may not be enough.

Anyone design something goofy like this before.  I don't know if my county building dept. would give it an approval though even if its engineered (stamped).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 29, 2017, 01:25:17 PM
I think I'd look at the forest service firetower designs rather than platform framing it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 29, 2017, 02:17:05 PM
Probably cheaper to build.  I was thinking outside of the box on this one, maybe too far outside of the box.

Both my wife and I would like a secondary storage structure and my wife was wondering if I could add some sort of perch onto the house so I naturally thought why not combine the two ideas...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 29, 2017, 02:18:07 PM
Since I have now have roof cladding enabled I figured it only made sense to have some sort of wall cladding enabled for the gable end walls:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su190_800.jpg&hash=cfc49ee29e8c7d5ffe69fae239bcda7c)

The advanced options now allow one to specify wall cladding, the settings can be adjusted in the "sheathing" tab of the global settings.  I currently only have 4 different colors of Hardiplank Siding but I will add more as requested and I can find textures that I like or create.  It should also be noted that it isn't too hard to swap out the texture for the user's custom textures.

I'm also thinking about adding an option for an air gap between the wall sheathing and the wall cladding in the case that someone wants to use brick as their cladding option.  For standard veneer brick in the US the air gap is usually 1" if my recollection is correct.

I will try to roll these latest additions into a new revision here shortly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 29, 2017, 03:05:47 PM
Version 1.8.1 - 01.29.2017
- Enabled gable wall cladding for common trusses.
- Added four "HARDIPLANK Cedarmill" siding colors into the wall cladding material library.
- Enabled sheathing and cladding for valley truss sets.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 30, 2017, 05:58:34 AM
Here is a simple structure created with the Truss and Foundation Plugins along with Housebuilder:

https://youtu.be/V-wUQrYOLOk

I like Housebuilder but I really feel like I need to develop my own Wall Plugin since it will tie in better with my Truss Plugin and allow the user to create the different sheathing and cladding options on the same layers.

Creation of the foundation and roof both took less than 30 seconds to create.  The walls, windows and doors did require manual editing.  I also realized that it would be useful to allow the option for wrapping the floor framing in wall sheathing and cladding so that this can be unioned with the appropriate sheathing and cladding on the walls above.  I will add this into the Todo list.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 30, 2017, 03:20:03 PM
Thinking out loud. I orient wall sheathing upright normally(option), typically hanging it below the mudsill about 1/2" (option), and I typically block with 2x4's flatways (option)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 01, 2017, 06:43:08 PM
When combining different roofs on complex structures I often find myself having to delete the outlookers, overhang and gable end truss on one end of the roof assembly. Then today I had a request from a user to enable the ability to limit the gable geometry to only one end. Based on this I will try to set up another option for the gable end truss option which allows for only the creation of one side with the gable end geometry. This means I will have to rework some of the advanced options to make sure it is compatible but I think I can make it happen fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 05, 2017, 11:05:44 AM
In response to a recent request about gable ends of the roof assembly I have created an additional option in the "Gable End Trusses" option when creating common trusses.  The new "Front" option only creates the gable end truss and gable end geometry on one side of the truss assembly and leaves the other side open as shown below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su192_800.jpg&hash=f29cb3495e11a84d684d617b11806e24)

This should come in handy when creating roof assemblies that butt up against walls and other complex configurations (ie. T-shaped buildings requiring Valley Sets etc...)

I've also been slowly working away at bringing all of the common truss types up to speed.  The Modified Qeen Truss (Mod Queen) now has plates, raised heels, structural outlookers, layers and materials:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su191_800.jpg&hash=2795b7a30471baecb74748c11837dab9)

Most of the non-common truss types still need me to go through and integrate plates, layers, raised heels and materials, the amount of work needing to be done is staggering.  This plugin is far from a polished, finished product, even after more than a year's worth of time and effort.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 07, 2017, 10:16:05 PM
I'm quite familiar with all of the industry names for various configurations of roof trusses (ie. Fink, Howe, Mod Queen, King Post, Queen Post, Double Fink etc...)  What distinguishes these trusses from each other is the configuration of the webs of the truss which is dictated by the number of panels of the top chords and bottom chords.  For example the Howe truss is four top chord panels and four bottom chord panels (4/4).  Most diagrams show up to a Triple Howe truss (8/8).  What is not typically shown is an (8/6) and (8/7) truss, is there any reason for this?  These two configurations seem perfectly valid to me, I would call them a Triple Queen and Fan Fink truss respectively.  Has anyone come across either of these two configurations?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 07, 2017, 10:50:05 PM
Actually I would change the name of the Fan Fink to Double Fan.

The next size up would be:

Double Mod Fan 10/6
Triple Fan 10/7
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 10, 2017, 06:07:34 AM
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 12, 2017, 11:28:50 AM
Version 1.8.3 - 02.12.2017
- Enabled metal plate connectors, materials and custom layers for Fan trusses.
- Added energy/raised heels for Fan truss (3 variants: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Roof slope can be toggled between Pitch or Degrees (input) for common trusses in the global settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su193_800.jpg&hash=993cbd88c7762b895b6b945966901245)

Currently the metric template forces the roof slope to degrees however in the imperial templates (inches, feet) the user can select between Pitch or Angle for common truss types.  I will need to update all of the truss types with this global setting option.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 12, 2017, 03:43:43 PM
The truss types in post #550 appear to be less and less efficient with materials. It looks like the top chords would have comparable load carrying ability in all of these if all else is equal, the bottom chord appears to be much stronger in the bottom truss compared to the top one.  ???, what are your thoughts on those?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 14, 2017, 08:51:58 PM
Version 1.8.4 - 02.14.2017
- Enabled roof cladding for gable and hip rafter roofs.
- Roof slope can be toggled between Pitch or Degrees (input) for gable and hip rafter roofs in the global settings.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 15, 2017, 05:12:37 PM
To create this roof was not an entirely automated process but I'm slowly getting there.  The trim tool comes in really handy for creating valley and jack rafters but ultimately it would be nice to auto create L-Shaped, T-Shaped and U-Shaped roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su194_800.jpg&hash=eb9a668d9433476035792e7be0a8b7f9)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=28c0e0f9-a245-4ff9-a923-f8c268bc9828
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 18, 2017, 01:40:52 PM
Version 1.8.5 - 02.18.2017
- Enabled roof cladding for dutch gable and TJI rafter roofs.
- Added TJI rafter roofs with dual glulam beams.
- Added Soffit Cut within Advanced Options for TJI Roof w/ GLB.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su195_800.jpg&hash=cb075a876078642eb71ff1cfed1bfef9)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=82a033b2-acc6-4216-a04c-f3707c68a49e

First new roof type in added in quite a while.  Lately I have been focusing most of my effort on cleaning things up and making sure all the options are working correctly for each roof type and configuration.

Soffit cuts with TJI (I-Joist) rafters gets a bit interesting but I've finally implemented it:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su196_800.jpg&hash=7463acf262f70385a59274b387d28de8)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 19, 2017, 04:29:28 PM
https://youtu.be/jcN4HmDz34o

TJI Roof with dual glulam beams.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 19, 2017, 04:38:59 PM
Very nice  [cool]
I like the way you can present a "raising script" with this kind of animation.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 19, 2017, 09:39:11 PM
Same house, just a lookout between the beams:

https://youtu.be/uHqasbDoGvo

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=d9963853-7596-433d-8855-7f5a8641e089
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 20, 2017, 10:57:23 AM
Trying out the Rayelectron Rendering plugin, I'm fairly impressed.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 23, 2017, 06:10:15 AM
Version 1.8.5b - 02.23.2017
- Addressed minor bug with "Front Only" gable end scissor trusses.
- Addressed minor bug with soffit cuts and TJI rafter roofs with dual glulam beams.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 23, 2017, 06:13:39 AM
I've been looking into the Weyerhaeuser Forte API or Open File Exchange.  There might be a way to integrate the plugin with Forte so that it automatically loads the geometry into Forte, any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 25, 2017, 04:45:30 AM
It's been too long since I've had Forte on the computer to say anything specific but I think any crosses you can make like that reasonably will only make it more user friendly. Is there any problem as they update/change though.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 25, 2017, 08:31:05 PM
Version 1.8.6 - 02.25.2017
- Enabled interior wall sheathing (Gypsum Wall Board) for Gable Dormers.
- Enabled ceiling sheathing (Gypsum Wall Board) and ceiling battens for common trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su198_800.jpg&hash=689a0d39b6c44d35e9455f0ec802f4d5)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 26, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
An example dormer created with the dormer tool and the gable roof created with the common truss tool.  Note that I have enabled all of the cladding, sheathing and GWB in the global settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su199_800.jpg&hash=7c55b7b19cc032207c9e1a3b2d7abc61)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=2ff7c406-7fe4-44af-b6ed-c4c817122285

When you select "YES" for the gypsum ceiling in the advanced options of common trusses and additional dialog is presented which then allows for manually adjusting the GWB thickness, ext. wall inset, and ceiling battens (size, spacing).

You will notice that in the global settings within the "Sheathing" tab a couple of new items have been added for Gypsum Sheathing.

Now I just need to enable ceiling sheathing for vaulted truss and rafter roofs, yet another large task added to the todo list.

Attic and Gambrel attic trusses will require not only ceiling GWB but also the attic GWB on walls and flat and sloping ceilings.

With the addition of all the interior and exterior cladding, the plugin can now generate the majority of the structural features of a roof.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 26, 2017, 10:53:58 AM
This probably pertains more directly to the Wall Plugin I have been working on but I could also test out the concept with the dormer module.

If the user enables the exterior wall cladding I could also enable a further option which will draw the corner and window trim as shown.  This option would only become active if the cladding option is selected.  I would create a new tab in the global settings for the all of the trim options (size, material etc...)

I'm also considering a rudimentary door and window module that can auto-fill the window and door holes in the Wall Plugin, however I don't know if architects and designers would find any use for it since they may be inclined to use more sophisticated 3rd party window and door plugins.

The reason I am considering this is that it would further automate the creation process and I have yet to find a window and door plugin that I am 100% satisfied with.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su200_800.jpg&hash=e1e7291bb9a5eb8bf2c7b3c8b1c02c25)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 26, 2017, 11:30:42 AM
Raised heel fink truss roof with 1.5"x1.5" ceiling battens and 5/8" GWB at a 5.5" wall inset.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 03, 2017, 07:43:10 PM
I've been giving some though to the soffit and fascia and I realized that in many cases the design may call for a closed soffit:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su205_800.jpg&hash=4926c26a4c3e7f178339047b41e500e0)

I've seen soffits constructed with plywood and also metal (aluminum, vented).

Also the fascia I am creating currently should be more properly labeled the sub-fascia since in many cases the true fascia board is a thinner 5/4 or 1x material.  If metal is used then the sub-fascia is covered over with a fascia cover:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trimbender.com%2Fimage%2Fdata%2Fstories%2Fgable.jpg&hash=0d58916c0948602ae4c4b1db404b3f1e)

Then of course we get into the whole boxed soffit at the corners:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaveosborne.com%2Fdave%2Fprojects%2Fimages%2Fsoffits.gif&hash=e8a537313dbf079d45fb7d1010bb11d7)

I would like to get some input in what you would like to see with closed soffits and fascia.  I am thinking it might be useful to have a completely separate section in the global settings that deals specifically with closed soffits, fascia and corner treatment (ie. boxed corners vs. non-boxed)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 05, 2017, 01:30:51 AM
Medeek Truss vs. MS Physics:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su207_800.jpg&hash=0f65b3d798e3aef64a593a7506094936)

Pretty clear the house didn't have a chance.

I'm actually very impressed with the collision detection of MS Physics, an amazing extension.

https://youtu.be/L-TZpTw2q2g
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 05, 2017, 06:48:46 AM
Asteroid? What was that supposed to be?
For eave soffit framing I usually run lookouts alongside the tails from subfascia to the house ledger to provide soffit nailing. I generally use T&G for soffits, strip vent centered or slightly outboard.
I prefer detail 1 to #3 especially with steeper pitches, that pork chop gets pretty fugly on a 12/12
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 05, 2017, 11:36:29 AM
This is what happens when you magically remove all the nails and fasteners from your house.

I could spend hours messing around with the MS Physics Extension.  Watching trusses domino each other would actually be quite educational for any installer to emphasize the importance of bracing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 13, 2017, 10:07:54 AM
I've been reviewing my Todo list lately and it really hasn't shrunk much, if anything it has grown a bit as I've added some new features in the last month and more catching up needs to be done with various truss types.

I only work on this project part time and on the weekends as much as possible, so my progress since September of 2016 has been quite slow (took a new job with the City of Ocean Shores).

Currently the Truss Plugin has seen the most development but I am also spread between the other separate plugins as well:

Medeek Wall Plugin
Medeek Structural Plugin
Medeek Foundation Plugin
Medeek Deck Plugin

The structural and wall plugins will be just as complex and involved as the Truss Plugin and will require a couple years of my full time attention to get where they need to go.

When I step back and look at everything I want to accomplish there is just no way, given my current situation, that I can achieve it.  It would be nice to also be able to hire some help in knocking out some of the coding, realistically there is only so many hours in a day and only so much one person can do.

I would really like to work full time on all of this as I see it has some serious potential and I'm also very excited about it but my previous attempt at using KickStarter to raise some working capital did not amount to much.

I was watching Shark Tank last night and I was thinking would this type of business even have a chance in that setting?  Anyhow, I am open to any ideas you might have in how to really blow this thing up and get it going.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 13, 2017, 01:04:30 PM
One thought. Ultimately the person successfully using the truss plugin ends up at the local truss shop buying their products and if you did your job well, their workload just decreased in the face of greater sales. Alpine, Mitek, etc. I've bugged AWC that they should have freeware calcs for dimensional lumber far beyond what they have. Again, easier access to design software increases sales, it is in their self interest to help develop and market it. Concrete, etc. They get to banner the pages with rotating industry links.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 26, 2017, 03:51:08 PM
Version 1.8.7 - 03.26.2017
- Added energy/raised heels for double howe truss (3 variant: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Metal plate connectors now enabled for double howe trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su208_800.jpg&hash=d17e52e4fd54ff08fba658b19bd29473)

Back to updating all the truss types with metal plates, raised heels and all other advanced options.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 15, 2017, 06:26:33 AM
Recently I've had a couple requests for bobtail/stub end trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.perrantrusses.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fbobtail_studend.jpg&hash=1aaeb0045507cbe12f524927d1d079d6)

When specifying how to truncate the truss, what lengths are typically used to control the location of the stub end(s)?

1.)  Stub or heel height.
2.)  Nominal span minus stub length
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 15, 2017, 06:28:25 AM
Then of course to further complicate matters there is the double bobtail truss which is really nothing more than a raised heel truss with unequal heel heights

So rather than add in a completely new category of trusses I suppose I could just allow the user to specify a heel height for both the left and right side of the common truss.  Currently the first menu has the option for a raised heel which is then applied to both sides of the truss.  I think I could just update to be:

Raised Heel Left: YES/NO "Defaults to NO"
Height Height Left (in.): "Defaults to 12" if no user entry"
Raised Heel Right: YES/NO "Defaults to NO"
Heel Height Right (in.):  "Defaults to SAME AS LEFT"
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 27, 2017, 08:06:24 PM
Version 1.8.8 - 04.28.2017
- Added energy/raised heels for mod fan truss (3 variant: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Metal plate connectors now enabled for mod fan trusses.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 29, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
**Fun with Roofs - Episode 1**

My 9 year old son took one look at this roof and then said "Don't build this in Florida, you'll create a sink hole".

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su210_800.jpg&hash=2cb36342f0cddd7f2c9c8d38e512a402)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su212_800.jpg&hash=eb4d511940761299fa864588fc1a5103)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su211_800.jpg&hash=fac76d690bdeaa7dea94e6805fd33513)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su213_800.jpg&hash=8d6f10711a7c5264c529447a3fb1e793)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su214_800.jpg&hash=a2fe8154dce41f579afdeca4a2eea4d7)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/2032fed3-cb9b-40c4-80b1-be1009b3f022/Residence-8
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Adam Roby on April 29, 2017, 05:10:57 PM
The center would make for a great water catchment through....   :)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on April 29, 2017, 10:00:51 PM
I'm thinking a koi pond would go perfectly there.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 30, 2017, 07:53:57 PM
Version 1.8.9 - 05.01.2017
- Added energy/raised heels for triple fink truss (3 variant: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Metal plate connectors now enabled for triple fink trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su215_800.jpg&hash=24d08dcdff80f55e3906a39fd69c738c)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 13, 2017, 07:15:33 AM
I'm trying to figure out the correct way to frame the stairwell as it joins up with the floor diaphragm above.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su220_800.jpg&hash=31448ee9d06af0636f390efce343862a)

It's hard to show exactly what I mean with sectional views, the best thing is to view the 3D model and you will see what I am talking about.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/c44b3423-611d-4dac-be93-4cf1cc072891/Stairs-1

I am working on the polygon and hole tool for I-Joist and Solid Sawn floors.  When you actually frame out this opening would you just use rimboard around the perimeter as I have shown?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 13, 2017, 10:51:13 AM
I've got to fix my wife's computer today so that will probably stop me from getting any real meaningful work done on the plugins but at least I've been able to throw together a first draft for the office I want to build.  Any thoughts on improving the design, sometimes once you get an idea in your head it is hard to see outside the box.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FMEDEEK_OFFICE4.jpg&hash=e15cb322c4e89111df4b9e59f12c8298)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FMEDEEK_OFFICE3.jpg&hash=ce1cbf1dde810f5597643c395b67c6b1)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FMEDEEK_OFFICE2.jpg&hash=ab942f6fae9b5955785915beca57d5da)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FMEDEEK_OFFICE1.jpg&hash=ac17779d6e8a37d97f6d9560801c0d6e)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FMEDEEK_OFFICE5.jpg&hash=990d24c2064404c8a778cca673c76a0c)

I haven't shown the doors or the front porch which will probably be quite small and pressure treated lumber.

- 32'x24'
- 5:12 or 6:12 roof with asphalt shingles
- two rooms
- 9' ceilings
- stemwall foundation with crawlspace
- carpet throughout
- 5/8" wallboard
- 3068 doors, (1) 4040XO, (3) 5040XO
- 11-7/8" I-Joists at 16" o/c
- studs DF No. 2, 2x6 @ 16" o/c
- sheathing will probably be 1/2" plywood, I don't like OSB in our climate.
- Siding Hardiplank or cedar siding, my budget may call for T11 though.
- 50 AMP sub-panel from house
- 16" overhangs at eaves and gables with gutters and downspouts and 4" drain lines away from building.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on May 13, 2017, 12:31:05 PM
Just some quick view observations. I would try to set the rimboard at the top of the stairs on the cross wall containing the doorway underneath. Is there a reason not to? At the foot of the stairs I would use an lvl... all that means is I don't know the design values for rimboard and am conservative though. Fine with it otherwise.

The door rough opening is 36" which corresponds to a 2-10 door, non existent size, drop to a 2-8 door and a 34" RO and the framing should work better.

In the office I'd move the vent by the door. A kitchenette (sink, micro and coffeepot space) and bath would be nice but drives up cost.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 22, 2017, 09:54:52 PM
All the end details are working.  This is an example of a Mansard Parapet truss with 5 panels and different overhangs:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su221_800.jpg&hash=747acc2ec40693708246925bbdb68054)

Now I just need to work on the plates and advanced options.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 27, 2017, 12:30:36 PM
Version 1.9.0 - 05.27.2017
- Added flat truss type, configurations: flat, monopitch, pitched.
- Metric input enabled for flat truss types.
- Added gable end trusses for flat truss types.
- Enabled the following end details for all flat truss types: None, Overhang, Cantilever, Mansard, Parapet, Mansard w/ Parapet.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su223_800.jpg&hash=9202ecbdf17430759207963b1a116ffb)

Plates and advanced options are still in progress.  With the amount of configurations available with this truss type it will probably be a while before these next elements are in place.

The flat truss type is very configurable and with a little adjustment of parameters you can also easily create a (non-attic) gambrel truss using the flat pitched option.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 27, 2017, 02:44:07 PM
Here is an example of a small commercial building with a flat truss roof (parapet):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su224_800.jpg&hash=230f8c9755899f463451cf542043be51)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/d8413377-4287-4fb3-99b9-3d200441a2fe/Commercial-Building
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 28, 2017, 12:35:42 AM
The flat double pitched truss allows for a user driven asymmetric ridge location as well as differing left and right heel heights.  This opens up virtually any possible truss geometry even a negative pitch if one is so inclined:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su226_800.jpg&hash=e6dd1583e14fbf0bc123eca439442b52)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su227_800.jpg&hash=f362d06bdd4c87da0ca9d34fe4b79007)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 28, 2017, 10:08:57 AM
I thought I was done with flat trusses but it was pointed out to me that I also need to consider top chord bearing configurations for this truss type.

I've created a simple matrix below with top and bottom chord bearing flat trusses.  I'm not sure if these make sense, please review and feel free to comment.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su228_800.jpg&hash=d6759104f4935c37963c7294cf8549b8)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/acee31ef-9e54-4eca-83d7-02747815ed29/Flat-Truss-End-Details-3

Top chord bearing usually involves the following steps:

1.)  Trimming the heel web up a specific vertical amount (vertical offset).
2.)  Insertion of a secondary heel web next to the trimmed (bearing) heel web.
3.)  Trimming the bottom chord back to the secondary heel web.
4.)  The diagonal web next to the heel is slightly altered by the addition of a secondary heel web.
5.)  Certain configs require an additional heel web on the outside of the trimmed heel web:  Mansard, Cantilever, Mansard w/ Parapet.

I can easily make this all happen and open up the option for top chord bearing flat roof trusses however I want to make sure it is right first.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 29, 2017, 12:41:05 AM
The top chord bearing option is almost complete for the flat trusses.  Here is a preview with a Mansard /w Parapet on the left side and a cantilever on the right side.  The bearing widths can be set independently as can the parapets heights now.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su229_800.jpg&hash=52bfda462ec0379f081da7d53da4e939)

I'm not entirely satisfied with the UI for this truss type, a proper html UI would be much more intuitive but time consuming to create.  Yet another important item on the todo list.

The plugin is starting to stray into some fairly exotic truss territory.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 29, 2017, 07:57:17 AM
Wood Gusset plates are on my mind this morning (for those of us crazy enough to build or own trusses):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su230_800.jpg&hash=41d2e7292d32432f4b33089025c38fc9)

Of course this option would be pretty much useless without the engineering to size the plates and check the fasteners.  I will be giving this some more thought in the near future.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on May 29, 2017, 09:48:03 AM
There are some who would like to build their own I'm sure.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 30, 2017, 06:48:02 AM
I think I've beaten the flat truss to death but I noticed after perusing through a number of flat truss shop drawings that the modified warren is also a popular web configuration.  Its not too big of a deal to enable this configuration.  The flat truss will then have the option between a pratt or mod warren web configuration.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 30, 2017, 06:39:32 PM
Enabled mod warren webs for the double pitched flat truss configuration:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su231_800.jpg&hash=849db1cc546cddc2a6f2094cc6b89d95)

The truss shown above is an asymmetric double pitched top chord bearing flat truss with a mod warren web configuration and cantilever ends.  That is quite a mouthful.

I have not added the top chord bearing option and the mod warren webs to the other flat truss configurations yet (flat, monopitch, pitched), however I will if specifically requested. There a much hotter items on the plate.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 08, 2017, 05:09:40 AM
In the global settings I've added a setting to switch between metal and wood connector plates.  Initially I will only enable wood plates for some of the more typical common trusses (ie. fink, howe, queen and king), if this feature proves to be popular I may enable it for more truss types.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su232_800.jpg&hash=6c75dd56a3ac55bed8815dc06eaa0972)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 09, 2017, 09:33:39 PM
Version 1.9.1 - 06.09.2017
- Added plywood gusset plates for common fink trusses.
- Enabled a "WOOD" plate type option in the global settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su233_800.jpg&hash=9c7b32663806ba7726f246ca272e056b)

*Note that the wood gussets are currently only available for the Fink truss, if anyone needs them enabled for a different truss please let me know.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 09, 2017, 10:08:55 PM
For the truss DIYer, would you rather drive a 3-1/2" nail through both gusset plates and the truss member and then clinch it on the other side or use smaller nails and not have to clinch?  From an engineering standpoint I know what I prefer but I am curious what the actual builder would prefer.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 10, 2017, 03:24:19 PM
Added plywood gusset plates for raised heel common fink trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su234_800.jpg&hash=44592d3df1d34f498628ed9a45b88b62)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/b21431bc-c3b6-4038-a81e-f27fc78f69b1/WGC-Truss

Note that there are currently no calcs associated with these WGC trusses.  If you are going to build your own trusses I would strongly suggest you find a local structural engineer to assist in specifying the plates sizes and fasteners, especially if the truss span is greater than 16 feet and your snow loads are greater than 25 psf in your region.

When I engineer WGC trusses I will also call out a waterproof glue as well however I don't take the glue's strength into the calculations.  This provides another margin of safety and also the rigidity of a glued and nailed gusset plated truss is superior in my opinion to your typical MPC truss.

Every member is critical in a truss, however some are more stressed than others.  Your top and bottom chords should never be anything less than a No. 2 DF.  I would suggest No. 1, No. 1 & Btr. or Select Structural.  The webs of a typical truss are usually stressed quite a bit less than the chords and sometimes you can get away with stud grade lumber but I would suggest DF No. 2 on all webs as well.  A strategically placed knot can easily ruin an entire truss.

Just as important as the materials is the level of care taken in cutting the members and assembling the truss.  All joints should fit tightly together so that members in compression can bear directly on their adjacent members.  Also realize that tension members may experience load reversals in high wind or seismic events so even tension members are no exception to the rule.

The correct fasteners and fastener size is critical.  The nails will be in single or double shear and the joint connection is relying entirely on this shear strength of the fasteners to hold together.  Fasteners too close to the edge or ends of a member are not as effective, so fastener placement is also critical.

I am curious how the two truss types would compare in a burn test, which one would stay intact longer.  My suspicion is that the plywood gussets would char and slowly burn however the metal plates would heat up and loose their strength quickly and fail.

I know most people don't do this but I would personally stress test each truss before installing it on the intended structure.  Mostly what you are looking for is a uniform deflection across all the trusses so that they can load balance properly.  If a truss is defective this test should help ferret out this data even though visually the truss may look acceptable.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on June 11, 2017, 06:25:34 AM
I would prefer to shoot ring shank 8d's from each face. Yup, I know what you want, I doubt it would happen in the field is my logic. I agree any field glue is gravy not to be used in the calcs. My understanding from a truss guy I was sitting beside in one seminar is that the metal plate protects the joint area, the wood burns through before the joints fail... still not sure I buy that but what do I know  :D. Is ply orientation critical? Would you test to design load or beyond?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 11, 2017, 11:23:19 AM
Just for the record the algorithm to size and position the mid top chord to web plate (Plate 2) is a real piece of work:

Code: [Select]
gamma2 = 3.14159265358979 * 0.5 - @Philength2 = @Pldim2 * 0.5 -1p3x = @Swx4 + length2 * (cos(@Theta2) / cos(gamma2 - @Theta2))p3y = @Swy4 - length2 * (sin(@Theta2) / cos(gamma2 - @Theta2))p2x = p3x - (@Tcd + length2) * cos(gamma2)p2y = p3y + (@Tcd + length2) * sin(gamma2)p1x = p2x - @Pldim2 * cos(@Phi)p1y = p2y - @Pldim2 * sin(@Phi)length4 = sqrt((@Strx4 - p1x)*(@Strx4 - p1x) + (@Stry4 - p1y)*(@Stry4 - p1y))zeta2 = atan((p1y - @Stry4)/(@Strx4 - p1x))length3 = length4 * sin(zeta2 + @Theta3) / sin(3.14159265358979 * 0.5 + @Phi - @Theta3)p4x = p1x + length3 * cos(gamma2)p4y = p1y - length3 * sin(gamma2)if @Theta2 > gamma2  p2x = p3x - ((@Tcd + length2) / (cos(@Theta2 - gamma2))) * cos(@Theta2)  p2y = p3y + ((@Tcd + length2) / (cos(@Theta2 - gamma2))) * sin(@Theta2)end
Actually had to use the Sine Law:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_sines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_sines)

Its funny because my 15 year old daughter just covered trigonometry in her math class and she told me she would never use this stuff so why learn it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 16, 2017, 09:07:05 PM
I've been thinking about site built trusses some more and trying to apply some rational thought to how best to nail together a WGC truss.  If you consider nails in single shear, 8d nails spaced at 4" between fasteners with a row spacing of 1" and and end spacing of 1.5" you end up with something like this.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su235_800.jpg&hash=fb9bccf5962e05b4587874169c39b7d1)

Those are 8d common nails so they aren't very big but spaced at 2" between nails in a row I would be afraid of splitting that bottom chord.

Looking at this I'm fairly convinced that going with longer nails that are in double shear and clinched give more bang for the buck, allow less nails and thereby less chance of splitting the truss members.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 17, 2017, 08:22:46 AM
Nailing from both sides is not reasonable in my opinion, there is no way to line up the nails easily from one side to the other, better to just nail from one side which bring me back to nails in double shear.

Using a 10d common nail (.148 x 3) and with 1/2" of protruding nail to clinch I get this layout:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su236_800.jpg&hash=a48649c59b529ed2f402ec292301dabf)

with the backside looking something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su237_800.jpg&hash=567df7e98d1e5e4ec02471fdf6e8fb24)

I probably don't need a 2.25" end distance (15D) on the plate edge toward the inside of the truss but I am using Table C11.1.6.6 from the NDS Commentary (NDS 2012).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 17, 2017, 01:03:07 PM
If you compare the capacity of a single shear and double shear connection in most cases you get double the capacity, see results for a 10D nail into DF and Structural 1 Plywood below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FNAIL_CALCULATOR.jpg&hash=3de36c69e9d909852dca8e0beae1e14d)

So returning to our previous example we now have 2180.9lbs/176.3lbs = 12.4 => 13 fasteners in double shear, rather than 25 fasteners in single shear, a much more reasonable number of fasteners
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on June 17, 2017, 04:25:36 PM
In one of the old, I think Midwest Plan Services site built truss publications I seem to remember they were nailing from both sides and clinching so that every other nail in a row was driven from opposite sides. That does require flipping the truss twice but maybe helps balance the shear between the side plates more uniformly?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 17, 2017, 06:25:13 PM
I do like the symmetry of that.  I was thinking it would be hard to line the nails up properly but then I realized that if they are in double shear they will pop through the other side so that visually you can see where to put the nails going through the other direction.

The heel joint is by far the highest loaded joint on your typical truss, even though splices can get a bit tricky depending on where they are located.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on June 18, 2017, 02:23:15 AM
I do like the idea of that, the act of flipping back and forth is not fun. I've been told to resolve the heeljoint first, if you can make that work then you can probably figure out the rest.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: azgreg on June 18, 2017, 05:53:15 AM
How about an energy heal truss for a hip roof with a duct chase?  ;D
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 18, 2017, 12:24:03 PM
If we consider the peak joint as rigid (web joints are pin jointed), one can see that the moment at the peak is fairly substantial (145 ft-lbs):

Both the top chords are in compression and pushing against each other, so the member on member contact is transferring a significant amount of that compressive axial load.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fcalculator%2Fimages%2Ffink_joint3.jpg&hash=c775bdb840a4edc1663e1d123cc277a6)

To account for the component of the load that is not being transferred at this joint I can probably use the equation from the TPI 1 for MPC trusses:

Pc' = sqrt(PP2 + (PN x Cr)2  (Sec. 8.3.3.3)

where:

Pc' = Resultant compressive force used for determination of minimum required metal plate contact area (lbs)
CR = Reduction factor for cmopression force component across the joint interface for metal connector plate design: 0≤CR≤1.0 (lbs)
PiN = Compression force component of the wood member under investigation normal to the wood member interface (lbs)
PiP = Compression force component of the wood member under investigation parallel to the wood member interface (lbs)

With the resultant being:

CR = 0.5
Pi = F23 = 2021.83 lbs.
PiN = Picos(Φ) = 2021.8 x cos(18.43) = 1918.1 lbs.
PiP = Pisin(Φ) = 2021.8 x sin(18.43) = 639.4 lbs.

θ = atan(PiP/PiN x CR) - Φ = atan(639.4/1918.1 x 0.5) - 18.43 = 15.3 deg. (angle between resultant compressive force and chord member)

Pc' = √(PiP)2 + (PiN x CR)2 = √(639.4)2 + (1918.1 x 0.5)2 = 1152.6 lbs. @ 15.3 deg.

I kind of get the logic behind this equation but I question where does the Cr (reduction factor) come from?  and why a value of 0.5?

I'm also looking at the rather large moment at this joint between the two top chords and wondering how best to factor that in.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 18, 2017, 12:25:15 PM
To allow for these same moment effects at the heel of a truss the TPI stipulates a heel reduction factor HR = 0.85 - 0.05(12tanθ -2.0) Sec. 8.3.2.2.  I'm going to assume this is an empirical formula developed over years of testing and experience.  However, for all non-heel joints this reduction factor is 1.0, which makes sense for an MPC truss but maybe not for a WGC truss, where moments at the joints are going to be larger due to the rigidity of the connection.

In the TPI 1-2014 commentary there is some good discussion on combined axial and moment loading scenarios.  Equation E C8.7-1 approaches this problem by converting the moment into an equivalent tension force:  Teq = 6M/d.

The logic behind this is to start with the bending stress and multiply it with the cross sectional area of the plates:  (1) Teq = fb x 2dt

Where: fb = M/s and S = 2(td2/6)

Substituting into equation (1) yields the 6M/d expression.

The commentary notes that this method has proven to be conservative (which I like) in most situations however they have since supplanted it with a more complicated and accurate approach.

For analysis of the tensile capacity of the actual gusset plates (plywood or OSB), tension check, this addition of an equivalent tensile force seems to make sense to me.

Ttot = Taxial + Teq

This is essentially the same as equation 3.9-1 in the NDS and can be written in this form:

The applied stress would then be: T/2td + 6M/2td2 which must be less than Ft' the allowable tensile stress of the plywood.

With the analysis of the fasteners (nails) one could probably use a simplified approach like this or a more complicated nail group analysis like I've used in calculating portal frames.

With the nail group calculation knowing the number of required nails, row spacing, nail spacing in a row one can come up with a rectangular approximation of the area filled with this group of nails.

The force applied to the worst case nail would:

Fnail = MjointSxSyrmax/J

Where the Polar Moment of the Nail Group is given by J = bh3/12 + b3h/12: b = rx + sx, h = ry + sy

and

sx = nail spacing in x-dir
sy = nail spacing in y-dir
rmax =  distance from centroid of rectangle to corner (furthest fastener)

This won't be entirely accurate since the fasteners will probably not form a perfect rectangle but it should be reasonably close.

Then one can add this worst case nail force to the average force on the nails from an axial member load (conservative) and come up with the combined load on the worst case fastener.

This becomes an iterative process:

Step 1:  Compute the number of fasteners for only the tensile load.
Step 2:  Given the number of fasteners and fastener group geometry from Step 1 then calculate the load on the worst case fastener in the group.
Step 3:  Add the value in Step 2 to average value from Step 1 and check against the allowable for the fastener.  If it exceeds the allowable then add a fastener and repeat the computation of the average fastener load due to tensile load only and the load due to the moments, repeat until it passes.

It's no wonder that the truss companies have all of this stuff programmed.  Technically this needs to be done for each joint at each load case, since load reversals may turn a compression loaded joint into a tension joint and vice versa, and the moments will be different for each load case.

As you can see engineering a truss (WGC or MPC) is no trivial matter.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 18, 2017, 12:30:30 PM
I next want to turn my attention to mid-panel splices:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su238_800.jpg&hash=59b999a267a8474308884a9c2944d9c1)

Nothing to exciting going on with this bottom chord splice, the splice will be loaded in tension with a moment, the same methods developed previously would apply.

In the case that the OSB or Plywood doesn't have enough strength for the combined axial + moment load then a vertical extension like what is shown could be improvised.  This will not only increase the moment capacity of the gusset plate(s) but also the tensile strength.  Note, that the number of fasteners into each bottom chord is not modified or decreased by the vertical extension of the gusset plate.

To be conservative I would not consider the 2x4 insert in the calculations of the updated tensile or moment strength of the gusset plate(s) even though it will contribute some unspecified amount.  The filler block is primarily to secure the protruding gusset plates and to prevent them from buckling out-of-plane.  To that end I don't feel that specifying the number of fasteners is overly critical.  A reasonable amount of fasteners and some glue will create a cohesive unit.

In the case of top chord splice with the members being in compression the previous equation would dictate using a force that is 1/2 the compressive force, this would seem reasonably conservative but other load cases that could potentially load the splice in tension should also be investigated and compared.  Again, any moments at the splice would also factor into the gusset plate sizing and fastener quantities.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 18, 2017, 12:38:32 PM
The member calcs for a WGC truss will be very similar to an mpc truss except that the matrix analysis model will have rigid joints instead of pin joints. This will introduce some minor bending into the internal webs but nothing significant since these member are not being loaded along their spans.  The deflection of the truss should probably improve slightly with its higher rigidity.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 20, 2017, 06:01:22 AM
Spent some time Sunday night and yesterday evening working on the stepdown hip truss set.  Given the shear number of trusses involved in one of the these assemblies I'm figuring it will be the rest of the week before I will see the light at the end of the tunnel, but progress is steady.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 21, 2017, 11:07:17 PM
The stepdown hip truss set is mostly finished.  I probably have a couple more days of work setting up raised heels, internal web algorithms, and advanced options.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su239_800.jpg&hash=07356a8cd843f2b0cb119dc5cd4218b3)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 22, 2017, 10:12:20 PM

Girder trusses can be single or double ply, I can add more plies if requested.

I've also added the option to use a drop-in purlin frame, see image and model below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su240_800.jpg&hash=d076e9d0089e271d68c7f9e62dfb4783)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/f313c80f-fbe0-4a45-a086-6914319f3b26/Medeek-Office-Hip-Roof

Items still needing attention:

- Error check in metric mode.
- Internal webs for hip trusses
- Internal web algorithm for end and hip jack trusses.
- Raised heels
- Enable soffit cut for jack trusses and hip trusses.
- Enable plates for hip, jack and drop-in purlin.
- Setup the half-a-hip option (one end is a gable end).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 23, 2017, 08:30:54 AM
The complexity of the hip truss sets makes them a bit of pain to program but when its all said and done it is a thing of beauty.

Once I have the stepdown hip set well on its way it will not be to difficult to enable the other styles of truss hip sets.  The only one that is significantly different is the terminal hip set and the dutch hip set but even those will fall into place relatively easily.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 23, 2017, 10:21:46 PM
Version 1.9.2 - 06.24.2017
- Added Stepdown hip set trusses.
- Enabled advanced options for stepdown hip sets.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 24, 2017, 12:24:02 AM
Using the stepdown truss set as a primitive it is possible to generate some fairly complex roofs:

In this case I created two hip sets and then tied them together with a valley set.  View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/1cd3ccf1-e7f8-492c-b4d0-f12286a6ba8e/Hip-Roof-9

This one way to do it but the more typical way would be to further customize the larger hip set so as to eliminate the valley set entirely.

Interesting how the larger girder truss ties into the smaller girder truss (3 ply).  The smaller girder truss would need to be beefed up to handle this point load if there is no bearing wall below, and then the point loads from the posts supporting the girder truss (in wall) would probably need spread footings.

A few seconds to create the basic geometry and then about 10 minutes of trimming (with the trim function) and manual adjustments.  I can see that the truncated hip set feature would be nice to have where hip roofs are tying into other roofs, similar to what I have enabled for the gable truss tool.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 24, 2017, 09:37:25 AM
It was pointed out that stick framing the valley set is often preferred in some locales (ie. California).  This is an example of a "California Fill".

I've seen them done this way up here in Washington but probably not as often.

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/getpubliccontent?contentId=6e7076e2-910c-4877-a8fd-253830273f51)

I haven't shown the vertical studs and their pads only the sleepers, rafters and ridgeboard are shown, view model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/fa645631-ede6-41c9-bbf4-74092fd8ea7a/Hip-Roof-10

Where the Fill connects back to the other roof do I have that correct?  Do you install another rafter against the truss?

Notice that I did not bevel the 2x12 sleeper, just shifted it so that if lines up correctly with the roof plane, of course if this is mounted on top of the sheathing then the position will change accordingly.

Those double bevel cuts on the rafters would scare me, but then again I'm no carpenter.

Funny how everything has a "California" in front of it:

- California Corner (Ext. Wall Corner) http://design.medeek.com/resources/framing/FRAMING_CORNERS.pdf
- California Fill
- California Hip Set https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/97644895-c988-435c-bdc4-c7b8956a6d46/California-Hip-Set-Rev-2

I guess the Californians are innovators.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 24, 2017, 12:22:40 PM
I was working on the hip sets last summer before my neck injury took me out so I'm glad to finally get back to it and at least get one variant knocked out.

I probably should have gotten on to it in January but I was still not feeling 100% so I been only tackling the easy stuff and chipping at those one by one.

I still have all the other variants to complete as well as raised heels, then the plates.

Timber trusses with bolted connector plates is on my hot list as is completion of the attic and gambrel attic trusses.

My full todo list for the plugin is at least two pages of hand written notes so there is plenty more to do.

The holy grail would be to have the plugin convert any complex roof outline (face) into a full truss or rafter roof without any manual editing, that is my target.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 24, 2017, 10:03:25 PM
Added energy/raised heels for stepdown hip set (3 variants: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su243_800.jpg&hash=f900c2cdf2f8851c1997663552cca88d)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/5e38b8eb-5c4d-4e05-a48e-63ceee60652b/Commercial-Building-with-Hip-Roof

Now the possibilities are limitless since you can match the heel height of any other roof (ie. rafter, TJI etc...)

Adding in this feature was not as bad I thought it would be but each truss type in the set must be considered and dealt with separately:

- Common Trusses
- Hip Trusses
- End Jacks
- Hip Jacks
- Corner Jacks
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2017, 08:58:55 AM
I am wondering if any one has some shop drawings for a truss roof like the one below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fmodel-home.jpg&hash=02f938005f82159724a3aa342ffb10dd)

I am trying to understand how the trusses are configured where the two roof lines meet at the interior corner.

I'm also looking for a full set of shop drawings for a California Hip Set, I'm seeing a few variations with this hip set I'm trying to determine the most typical way they are put together.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2017, 10:55:07 AM
For those not familiar with truss hip sets, here is a primer:

https://youtu.be/ogXehysyHDU

6" raised heel with open end jacks and a drop-in purlin frame.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2017, 03:47:35 PM
Version 1.9.3 - 06.25.2017
- Added Terminal hip set trusses.
- Enabled advanced options for terminal hip sets.
- Added energy/raised heels for terminal hip set (3 variants: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Added the option for open vs. closed end jack and single and double ply girders

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su245_800.jpg&hash=947641f00288d5a1029af2a3d8336151)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/40ac6469-0d4b-4462-914e-7f6f7ae0602f/Standard-Terminal-Hipset

This style of hip set is typically used for spans less than 20 ft.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2017, 06:01:05 PM
Here is a model of the L-shaped hip roof I am in question about:

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/getpubliccontent?contentId=80a3499e-e459-40f6-851f-0df9c328cb83)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/0d42dfb9-8059-40a9-afb9-e0f5a8c346df/Hip-Study-2
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 26, 2017, 09:18:06 PM
I think my love of trusses sometimes blinds me to the fact that most people don't really care to model the details of their roof.  With that being said I don't think my time was wasted since I have learned an immense amount about programming a SketchUp Plugin and manipulating the API.  However, I think it is now time to give the Truss Plugin a rest and focus my efforts on projects that will give me a better return for my investment.  I'm not sure what exactly those projects are yet but I'm working on it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su246_800.jpg&hash=5d3d7175249f4de72a5e9fa6558085c0)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: major-key on June 27, 2017, 12:51:36 PM
Hey @medeek, I was trying use your truss calculator at medeek .com, but it doesn't seem to work right now. I remember I used it once in 2014 for a quick calculation for a garage. Now, I could use it to do another quick design... but it just complains about having 0 something left. Is this normal? I guess since I only use it once every 3 years... I should know better. :)

My main question is about the difference between a queen with and without a fan. I have seen both. Thanks.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 29, 2017, 11:02:16 AM
Here we go again:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/128644708/medeek-construction-plugin-library

After a dismal turnout for the original truss plugin campaign I never thought I would consider another kickstarter campaign. However, I have recently been contacted by various companies/organizations seeing if I could further develop the plugins so they could use them on a almost daily basis. Based on these conversations I can see there is a real need for this type of modeling and the momentum appears to be picking up.

Another critical piece is my own level of knowledge and skill set with the SketchUp API. After spending the last two years working through the truss plugin I feel that I've finally reached a point on the learning curve where I am able to bring a lot to bear and ultimately push the development to a critical mass.

My limiting factor now is only my time and in order to devote more time to the project I need some backing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 29, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
Hey @medeek, I was trying use your truss calculator at medeek .com, but it doesn't seem to work right now. I remember I used it once in 2014 for a quick calculation for a garage. Now, I could use it to do another quick design... but it just complains about having 0 something left. Is this normal? I guess since I only use it once every 3 years... I should know better. :)

My main question is about the difference between a queen with and without a fan. I have seen both. Thanks.

Send me a detailed email with your question and I will see what I can do.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 02, 2017, 09:02:49 AM
I've been looking at some floor truss layouts and it appears that within a given truss set or assembly the chase will line up across multiple spans as I have shown here:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su248_800.jpg&hash=10ba6ec4a92ce840a5cccf5ba842cd0d)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/25d2af3a-a5e6-498f-b2eb-8f4b773927ca/Floor-Truss-Study-3

Generating a new truss component for each separate span is not too difficult, similar to generating a new step down hip truss component every 24".  One thing to note is that a polygon outline will only work for floor trusses if the angles are all orthogonal, at least the bearing walls where the trusses terminate.

I'm a little unclear how to deal with the ladder trusses at the transition between different spans, perhaps someone has a 3D model or pictures giving me some clarity in these areas.

It took me about 15 minutes to create this complex floor truss set using the rectangular floor truss tool (3 separate truss sets) and the trim tool, not terrible but it would be so much better if I could achieve the same result in a matter of seconds with no manual editing.

Cutting holes in the floor and having the hole cutting tool able to regen the proper trusses is also a hot item related to this discussion.  That would make the floor truss feature actually functional as a real world design tool.

Another issue is multiple chases within a truss set.  One central chase seems the most typical but two chases positioned within the central third of the truss span also appears to be quite common.  So far I have not seen more than two chases in a given floor truss span, probably for good reason.  The ability to create two chases rather than just one is now on the "todo" list.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 03, 2017, 01:52:56 PM
Tutorial 5: Hip Truss Sets (24:32 min.)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 04, 2017, 08:44:55 AM
On my Kickstarter campaign there was a recent comment regarding the pricing of my plugins.  I have been giving this some thought recently and I thought I might also share my remarks on the board as well:

I agree that there is certainly an argument that I charge too little for these plugins and I have wrestled some with this problem. Others have also privately messaged me or emailed me with similar remarks and recommended that I bump my prices, sometimes tenfold.

The current reasoning behind my low pricing structure can be summarized with the following points:

1.) All of these plugins are currently in a developmental phase. Unfortunately, I have not been able to exert my full time efforts at this development so progress has been slow. I find it hard to charge a "fair amount" for a product that in my mind is still flawed and imperfect. My "todo" list is currently about 60 items and written out covers about 2 pages. To charge a "professional" price requires that one provide a "professional" service or product, I don't feel like I'm there yet.

2.) I have looked at some of the competition such as Pluspec and others who charge considerably more than I do. Again the sophistication of the their product exceeds my own so the price differential is warranted. But more importantly I'm not a huge fan of pricey design software, that is what has led me to SketchUp in the first place. The SketchUp community in general has adopted this mindset (in my opinion) and I don't feel that they would get behind an expensive solution.

3.) I am also trying to keep the plugin within the reach of the casual user (DIY'er), someone who simply wants to model up a single house or garage for their own personal use. In some cases the trial version of the plugin(s) will work for that but I have recently limited it quite strictly so any serious design work will require a registered license.

4.) I have also considered a subscription model, but my own distaste of that licensing mode has kept me from going down that road. Once your purchase a software you should be able to use it indefinitely as it stands. Additional payment should only be required if you are requesting an update or added functionality.

5.) What better way to discourage copy cats and the competition to price it too low as to make it worth their while. No one in their right mind will try to recreate what I have done with trusses when the payback is so little and the effort is so large.

With all of that being said I do think that the sweet spot, which still meets the requirements of the above points, may still be a bit higher than what I am currently charging. I need to find the correct amount to charge so that the above points are carefully balanced with the fact that I need to be able to justify the amount of time and effort I spend in developing these products.

However, with this community in particular I have received a lot of support and guidance, my original offer still stands.  If you would like a license to any of the plugins please feel free to email me and I will be happy to comply.  All that I ask is that you are generous with your feedback so that I can further improve the features and functionality of the plugins.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 05, 2017, 06:53:43 PM
If I ever do build my office I was thinking of doing some sort of cedar siding and then putting my logo or some of my other designs on the exterior:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su249_800.jpg&hash=ca223c58a7ced290a5e45a65f7244374)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/1bc480bd-0bc9-4f5a-b6fe-441d73c84183/Medeek-Office-with-Logo

Some of my other designs are here:

http://www.wilkersonart.com
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 08, 2017, 09:16:42 AM
Version 1.9.4 - 07.08.2017
- Added energy/raised heels for triple howe truss (3 variant: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Metal plate connectors now enabled for triple howe trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su250_800.jpg&hash=49f451e199893339da70b0c34dfd4caa)

Below would be a typical example of a 60' span using a triple howe truss.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su251_800.jpg&hash=a658a4c1a4a962a379cc28879033d450)

However, in most cases where the design calls for taller walls one would probably go with a steel building or CMU block walls.  This was the case on a building I designed about 10 years ago (Wasatch Building Supply, Utah) that had 20 ft. walls.  Its too bad I don't have an interior photo showing the trusses inside the warehouse roof, its quite a sight to behold.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fgallery%2FCOM10060_LINDON_2006%2FCOM10060_LINDON_2006_480.jpg&hash=bb1cfe88c4c1d68409644b87142bbc54)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 13, 2017, 07:17:21 PM
Version 1.9.5 - 07.11.2017
- Added energy/raised heels for quad fink truss (3 variant: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Metal plate connectors now enabled for quad fink trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su252_800.jpg&hash=b1c95cd07a4401ddab8cdaf60e8acc4e)

This concludes the updates needed for common trusses.  I still have a number of updates for all the other truss types to bring them up to speed.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 20, 2017, 08:55:15 AM
Making a slight detour back to the wood gusset plate question and nail spacing:

What I would like to compare is the following:

Same amount of nails in each test specimen. The tighter nail spacing allows for 66.6% the gusset length versus the 2 row configuration.

Any one want to venture a guess which one is stronger and by how much?

I just need to figure out a test rig and then load these two up and see what happens.

For a DF main member and OSB (7/16) I get 173.7 lbs per fastener (double shear) or a total of 1,389.6 lbs for eight 10d fasteners.

I'm wondering how much the connection will stretch at this design load (loaded in pure tension, parallel to grain of main member) and at what load will it fail, then compare the results from both configurations.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 21, 2017, 04:16:30 PM
The timber construction manual has a little bit on how to look at staggered rows, check out fig 11.5.4-1;
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 22, 2017, 01:45:23 PM
I've updated the user map so that it now shows all users at once without a time lapse effect:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/sketchup/data/medeektrusspluginusermap.pl

and a new combined map with both the foundation and truss plugin:

http://design.medeek.com/calculator/sketchup/data/medeekpluginsusermap.pl
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 23, 2017, 07:42:23 PM
Fixed a minor bug with the tail bearing truss module.  The user should now be able to input a roof pitch up to 16:12.  This was such a minor fix that I'm not rolling a major revision, just a sub-revision:  1.9.5b.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 25, 2017, 08:42:51 PM
Tonight I was thinking it might be kind of cool to enable an option for hip and ridge (cap) on hip roofs.

After about an hour of coding I generated this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su253_800.jpg&hash=0e019a6ef4df64bdeaca4fa4695ca910)

I've got the hip cap figured out at the eaves but I'm a little unsure how to terminate everything where the hips meet the ridge:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su254_800.jpg&hash=46d8e526519bd5cb70bdf18823e3aa58)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 26, 2017, 01:35:45 PM
In the field, bring the lee hip caps up then the windward then cover with the ridge cap, always think like a raindrop.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 26, 2017, 07:22:07 PM
I know what your saying as far as lapping things correctly, but that doesn't quite work with a SketchUp model.  I guess the model is more representational than realistic, but I'm trying to convey the overall look and feel of the higher definition hip and ridge.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on July 27, 2017, 02:13:37 AM
Gotcha, #2 looked closest to correct. If the ridge cap to hip cap line was swung perp to the main ridge it would look more correct.

I was amazed at the number of users on the map when I clicked it the other night, good show!
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 27, 2017, 08:52:24 PM
The hip and ridge is now fully implemented for hip roofs as shown.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su255_800.jpg&hash=096871f67151086120d6463a4f9389d8)

It can also handle pyramid roofs where there is no ridge cap.

In the global settings I will setup and option to enable this feature and also an option to set the (ridge/hip) cap width and thickness.

Its too late tonight but I will see what I can do tomorrow about rolling out a new version.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/7aa80c75-5183-4aed-b0fb-ee54aa094fe0/Hip-and-Ridge-Medeek-Office
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 27, 2017, 08:59:46 PM
Gotcha, #2 looked closest to correct. If the ridge cap to hip cap line was swung perp to the main ridge it would look more correct.

I was amazed at the number of users on the map when I clicked it the other night, good show!

The map is only showing the number of "registered" users.  The actual number of people using the plugin may be quite a bit higher, I'm not really sure.  I didn't think there would be that many people using SketchUp for any sort of serious design work but I guess I was wrong.

It's too bad I can devote more time to the development, its just plain fun.  I try to put in a couple of hours after work each day if I've got anything left in the tank.

The next big thing I want to work on is adding the timber truss module with metal plates and bolts.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 29, 2017, 02:34:21 PM
Version 1.9.6 - 07.29.2017
- Added a hip & ridge option for all hip type roofs.

I will now need to setup hip & ridge for all other roof variants (gable, dutch gable etc...)

I'm quite pleased with the way this has come out.  Within the global settings under the "Sheathing" tab you can adjust the width and thickness of the hip/ridge cap.

This option definitely adds a finished look to the roof.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 29, 2017, 04:51:06 PM
Added a hip & ridge option for all gable truss roofs (sub. rev. 1.9.6b):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su257_800.jpg&hash=01180b4ddd140a59e3e7f5328de7a404)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su256_800.jpg&hash=6d1d300bb0691634341bbdb08a741144)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 30, 2017, 06:08:39 PM
This afternoon I began to put together the HTML for the timber truss GUI (what I have so far):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su258_800.jpg&hash=6a45afa165036cb76119be24c2ce2b99)

I think I've reduced a metal plated (bolts) timber truss down to twenty (20) parameters.

Hopefully the preview panel will help simplify the entry of these parameters and give the user instant feedback on what each one does.  With these sort of trusses the look and feel of the truss is every bit as important as the structural aspect so a preview is very important.

The preview panel will not only show the timbers but also the metal plates and exact position of each bolt.

Once the user submits "go", the timber truss module will draw one (1) timber truss with all of the timbers, metal plates, bolts, nuts and washers.

In the global options the user will be able to specify the bolt standard and the washer standard as well as set the material (color) for the plate and hardware.

As usual the design and programming is a little more involved than I originally anticipated but in the end it should be quite dramatic to be able to create a fully bolted and plated timber truss.

I'm probably going to need a full week to complete this, so given my current schedule and hours it will probably be 2-3 weeks before this is ready to release.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 31, 2017, 11:17:53 PM
Visually, not a lot of progress:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su259_800.jpg&hash=d0d9ab3bf662d783d561dd843c0d7a27)

But what you can't see is the algorithm to efficiently position and display the bolts.

For larger trusses I'm a little worried that the display is too small to show the bolt details, but I'm not sure what else to do about it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on August 02, 2017, 06:13:35 PM
Can it publish a dimensioned plate by plate detail?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 03, 2017, 05:01:42 PM
That would certainly be useful if it could.  I can probably use SVG to generate and html detail which can then be printed to a PDF document.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 05, 2017, 10:05:38 PM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su260_800.jpg&hash=ba392a027c6a471b0c39f7cdff8a1ed8)

Now I just need to add the bolts to the peak and heal plates...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: brandywine on August 06, 2017, 01:21:18 PM
Is this calculator available somewhere?
This goes in hand with the question I just posted under GENERAL about our trusses. I hope we didn't screw up! I posted pictures.
Maybe you can help us....?

-Mickie
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: azgreg on August 06, 2017, 02:05:11 PM
Is this calculator available somewhere?
This goes in hand with the question I just posted under GENERAL about our trusses. I hope we didn't screw up! I posted pictures.
Maybe you can help us....?

-Mickie

http://design.medeek.com/
http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 18, 2017, 08:19:37 AM
I've posted the Html Timber Truss input page at the link below so anyone can start putting it through its paces and offer me some feedback.

http://design.medeek.com/resources/timbertruss/web_dialog_timber_truss.html

I still need to add in the algorithms for the bolts into the top chord and top of the king post, should be able to knock that out this evening.

I will probably need to add in some extra logic that deals with bolt placement at the heel joints especially when the scarf cut on the bottom chord extends below the centerline of the bottom chord.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 19, 2017, 05:02:05 PM
I've got all of the bolts working now for each plate as well as the extra logic to make sure bolts don't get too close to the scarf line at the heel joint.

http://design.medeek.com/resources/timbertruss/web_dialog_timber_truss.html

If there are no major fixes then I am ready to implement this module into the plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 20, 2017, 12:32:17 PM
This is would be the typical output of the html input for the timber trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su261_800.jpg&hash=411b29f046582e44485ed471d28f5100)

I may add in the L1 dimension and the heel height dimension.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 21, 2017, 06:09:24 AM
No major complaints or concerns with the way I have it currently configured, so far.  I've starting creating the ruby code that does the heavy lifting.  By the end of the week I should have something ready to go for timber trusses.

My goal is to also add in the Queen Post and Howe configuration for timber trusses, these other two seem to be the most commonly used.

There is a number of ways one could arrange the bolts on these plates or even configure the plates.  I am trying to come up with the mostly widely accepted method that will make at least 75% of the user base happy.  Hopefully I can achieve that.

At another level I am really happy about this latest edition to the plugin,  I now have a better understanding and comfort level with designing bolt connected timber trusses and I can better address local customer requests in this regard.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 22, 2017, 05:23:57 AM
The html webdialog is now integrated into the plugin and variables are passing correctly between the two:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su262_800.jpg&hash=6c6109835b5e949084b5d9a0975121de)

Developing new modules, especially one with some many variables/inputs is a time consuming process.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 23, 2017, 10:15:09 AM
I've uploaded a minor update which integrates the timber truss web dialog (won't actually create anything just yet) for those interested in testing it in SketchUp.  It will only load up in Imperial/US unit templates for now.  My main concern is cross browser issues that I'm not aware of but may pop up for other users who have their PC's configured differently than my own.

Let me know if there are any issues.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 23, 2017, 10:16:41 AM
I've spoken with another engineer about timber trusses and he swears by timber rivets.  I've only ever seen pictures of their application, anyone have any real life experience with timber rivets?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on August 24, 2017, 04:31:05 PM
None, neat concept, there is a section in the NDS on them. Because of the machining, I doubt they will replace bolted connections for most work.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 26, 2017, 08:47:47 PM
Version 1.9.7 - 08.26.2017
- Added king post timber trusses with bolts and metal plates.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su263_800.jpg&hash=398bd3d982054e0257f578f75ff0349a)

There may be a few bugs to work out as I haven't had the time to test every possible configuration but it appears to be mostly working now.  The metric version is not quite ready so the GUI defaults to the imperial units regardless of the template.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/b9530289-89ff-40c4-ac55-754344864d3a/Timber-Truss-King-Post

I will add in the Queen Post and Howe configurations if requested by users and make any other corrections or adjustments as needed.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su264_800.jpg&hash=7774e4b284bc8d7dbc6746a280984249)

The permutations with this thing is ridiculous.  The truss above has larger members with a wider plate width that allows for two rows of bolts.
Title: KickStarter Campaign
Post by: Medeek on August 28, 2017, 03:13:33 PM
We got about 50% the way there which in my mind is pretty good.  I don't know that Kickstarter was the right venue for trying to stir up the momentum for a SketchUp plugin but I thought it's at least worth a shot.  I sincerely appreciate all who have pledged their hard earned money and supported me in this endeavor.  Your faith in me is the reason I keep plugging away at these tools.

I am currently pursuing other funding options.  To produce a wall plugin that can do what the other "big boy" softwares can do will take a serious investment of my time and effort.  I'm am figuring at least two years of solid programming to produce a polished product that has all the bells and whistles.

How I get there, I'm still trying to figure out.  Currently I spend my weekends and a small amount of my time during the regular work week (usually going after the low hanging fruit).  Surprisingly I am able to make some headway but progress is too slow in my opinion, somehow I will need to speed up.

Again I would like to thank everyone who participated in this campaign and for all of your pledges, it means a lot to me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 30, 2017, 06:43:34 AM
Looking at the code structure of the timber truss module and the html web dialog it doesn't appear to be too difficult to add in the Queen Post and Howe type truss.  This addition will make this feature considerably more versatile and useful in my opinion since it should cover 90% of most timber trusses of this type used in residential and commercial construction.

I will make it a point to add in both additional truss types before moving on to something else.

Recently I have not had a lot of feature requests so please fire away.

The next big item on the list is the implementation of the straight skeleton algorithm and the ability to create any rafter roof shape, this is a big one.  If I succeed, which I will, this should be tremendously valuable to many of the plugin users.

How to do this sort of thing for truss roofs becomes a bit more difficult since truss roofs are a bit more ambiguous and can be pieced together in a variety of ways.  I think it is possible but I will need to give this one more thought.

The next big item which needs to be tackled is the ability to generate floor joists and trusses for any floor outline.  I've already given this some serious thought and the path forward is clear to me but it will just take some focused coding time and debugging.  Along the same lines, the ability to cut holes in the floor assembly (stairwells, access doors etc...) is also a hot item, I will address this at the same time.

Work on the Wall Plugin has begun in earnest but my free time right now is limited so meaningful progress is slow, especially as I am still devoting the bulk of my time towards the truss plugin.

I have exactly zero feedback on the timber truss module so I am curious if anyone has used it yet and if they are encountering any difficulties or other issues that they would like to see addressed.

- Is this feature useful?

- What would make it more useful?

- Would other timber truss types (timber rivets, etc...) be more useful?

Just because I find it fascinating and would like to add it to the plugin doesn't mean it has any real world utility, I've learned that through experience.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 02, 2017, 02:52:35 PM
Plates are mostly there now just need to work on the bolts for the Howe Timber Truss:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su265_800.jpg&hash=25902507a930427188873e7b2c56176b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on September 02, 2017, 07:05:34 PM
These appear to be drawing the truss, can they also be made to design or check it structurally?
I noticed that I can enter plates larger than the members, not sure that it is an issue.
Can the kingpost be drawn with fan web members to break the top chord spans... halfway to the Howe?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 03, 2017, 08:12:39 AM
So far I've only gotten to the geometry of the timber truss, the engineering portion will be next.

I haven't implemented too many checks into the code yet, so yes it is possible to draw a "goofy" truss.  The preview screen is there to help avoid these situations but I will probably need to add some logic in that keeps certain things within reasonable limits.

The queen post truss is also in the works.  The three truss types will be:  King Post, Queen Post, and Howe.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 03, 2017, 11:49:17 AM
Bolts and plates are now complete for the Queen and Howe Timber Truss types:

http://design.medeek.com/resources/timbertruss/web_dialog_timber_truss.html (http://design.medeek.com/resources/timbertruss/web_dialog_timber_truss.html)

Please feel free to test out the web dialog at the link above.

Now all that remains is to bring the javascript code into the ruby.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 04, 2017, 11:59:13 AM
Version 1.9.8 - 09.04.2017
- Added queen post and howe timber trusses with bolts and metal plates.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su266_800.jpg&hash=6ba818cc1abe8271e584d8358470eb4f)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/11b78080-be08-4492-805c-2d73c9871ec6/Timber-Truss-Yard

Timber trusses haven't seemed to garner much interest or feedback but I do feel like it is a worthwhile contribution to the plugin.

There is more to be done with the engineering side but I will move on to something else unless customer feedback brings me back to it.

The big prize right now is the straight skeleton implementation.  I have been mulling this one over for at least a year now.

The truss yard now has 23 different truss types/profiles:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/828e8b19-fac1-418e-bc64-f00294f453d0/Medeek-Truss-Yard-5
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on September 04, 2017, 02:26:58 PM
Looking good.
In heavy timber both right hand examples would be called kingpost trusses, a quick google gave this comparison to a queen post;
http://www.vermonttimberworks.com/blog/hail-to-the-king-and-the-queen/
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 05, 2017, 01:18:05 AM
Yes, technically you are correct and I have always found it confusing.  My naming convention is trying to stay consistent with the nomenclature for MPC trusses.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 05, 2017, 02:15:15 PM
Version 1.9.8c
- Enabled option for F436 vs. F844 flat washers for timber trusses (in the materials tab within the global settings).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 09, 2017, 08:26:47 AM
Tutorial #6:  Timber Trusses

https://youtu.be/CrftTWt6Z0g

View model used in tutorial here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/38b48d10-1b18-46d5-8d6d-69bd446cdcd3/Timber-Truss-9
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 16, 2017, 07:27:16 PM
Starting to work on the straight skeleton algorithm today, complex roofs have got my attention.

The model below has a saddle point and this lends itself to some rather complex framing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su268_800.jpg&hash=52200fef7461cbc7c1685cb33cde1d97)

Even with the roof primitives and trim tool, which helped out tremendously, it still took me almost an hour to fully generate the roof framing.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su269_800.jpg&hash=719b875d00569415e1f60e73bc8edcc0)

The goal is to turn hours into seconds.

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on September 17, 2017, 06:15:23 AM
From a structural view, would you install props under all the hip junctions?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 17, 2017, 07:09:57 AM
Correct, what is not shown is all of the required bracing to actually make this roof work.  There would need to be some vertical members attaching to bearing walls below.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 17, 2017, 07:11:48 AM
If you really want a headache try and truss out this same roof outline:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/1e909f8f-b9ca-4b16-a51b-4b9a8f785a1f/Complex-Roof-3-Truss

After about 45 minutes I've given up, not because it can't be done but because the amount of custom truss profiles and manual editing required far exceeds my patience and determination.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 17, 2017, 02:18:21 PM
Needing a break from the rigors of the straight skeleton code I realized that I have still not implemented the octagon hip roof yet.  On a related note the circular roof could also use my attention:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su271_800.jpg&hash=a31282826e247894b0e53712238f40c0)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/1cf9c6bc-46fd-47c6-8aa3-49a8536dc2be/Circular-Roof

The number of rafters can be given by this equation N = 8 + 8n where n = 0,1,2,4 etc...

In this model n = 3
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 17, 2017, 05:51:46 PM
A turret roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su272_800.jpg&hash=fbd6112fa63411a0b959ce40893390f0)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/a082e206-881e-424d-aa55-4d5b03913b79/Circular-Roof-2
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on September 18, 2017, 06:04:28 PM
Now that roof, if you ran a steel strap around the rafter tails under the fascia, you wouldn't need any interior framing?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 19, 2017, 06:22:44 PM
You would need to anchor the ends well so you can form the tension ring, interesting idea.  Then you could leave the interior vaulted.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 19, 2017, 06:26:00 PM
Now I'm trying to figure out how to calculate the tension in the strap given a uniform (snow load) on the turret roof.  The steeper the pitch the less the tension in the strap.  This reminds me of some of my calculus problems from my college days, but it is probably much simpler than that.

A larger overhang would counter the flattening effect of the load on the roof and reduce the tension in the strap.

If you take the tributary load at the center of the roof as half the distance from the center to the outside wall the point load at the center would be given as P = (S + D) * pi * (d/4)^2.

The horizontal force exerted by each rafter would then be: Fh =  P/tan(Theta) * (1/n) where "n" equals the number of rafters.

The tension in the strap from basic statics would be T = (Fh/2) / cos(omega) where omega = 90 * (1 - 1/n)

I'm assuming an overhang of zero or at least conservatively ignoring the countering affect of the overhang.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 24, 2017, 10:57:39 AM
Working on adding in the inset floor joists per the  details given by dpaul:

Parameters are the following:

1.)  Stemwall Thickness (inset amount)
2.)  Ledger Option:  Yes or No
3.) Ledger Height
4.) Ledger Width
5.) Hanger Option: Yes or No

I'm still waffling on what to do if the hanger option is "yes".  I was considering having the option of selecting one of the many Simpson-Strongtie hangers from a long list of hangers.  However, no models exist for the bulk of these hangers and I don't have the time or data to try and model a bunch of them.  Item 5 may not be feasible.

I also have a question on the ledger board option:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su274_800.jpg&hash=72923f643c6d202d81ab2c7dfeee10f7)

As you can see in the image the 2x12 PT dimensional lumber ledger is smaller in height (11.25") than the 11-7/8" TJI.  In this case would the ledger be run flush to the bottom of the TJI or is this not a concern?  I was thinking that one would probably call out an LVL or LSL ledger with felt backing between the ledger and the concrete so that the ledger matches the height of the I-joist.  Additional information when the floor joists are I-joists or EWP would be helpful here.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/754bd742-3505-45d4-9941-5f445b49542a/Inset-Floor-Joist-Study
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: FoxKeegan on September 29, 2017, 02:34:59 AM
Came across this post as I'm a layman attempting to learn, in a sense, exactly what this program helps to calculate and frankly I'm just amazed.

Not only that calculating a basic truss requires 26 pages of paperwork, but that you've kept with this and documented exactly how much work it really is.
All I was trying to do was figure out the TCDL of my modified queen to see if I could hang XPS & GWD.

Rather than Kickstarter, have you considered doing a Patreon? You're clearly sticking with this project and it has an amazing +150k views.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 30, 2017, 07:39:12 PM
Everyone must find their raison d'etre, after dabbling in various businesses and careers until about the age of 40, I think I finely found mine.  The truss calculator is still very limited in what it can do, for now it primarily remains as a academic exercise.  If I can ever find the time and money I will be able to do more with it and various other programs and software I am developing.  I appreciate your interest and your suggestions, I may have to look into Patreon further.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 30, 2017, 07:40:19 PM
Version 2.0.0 - 09.30.2017
- Added a hip & ridge option for dutch gable rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su275_800.jpg&hash=57c4eb9a6f81bc2a4bb6087106037dbb)

View model here:

Not exactly how I should terminate the hip cap where it meets the gable section of the roof.  What I have now seems reasonable enough for presentation and estimating purposes.

Quite a bit of convoluted code to get those sections of hip cap just right, where there is a will there is a way.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 30, 2017, 09:12:32 PM
https://www.patreon.com/medeek
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 01, 2017, 02:39:22 PM
Version 2.0.0b - 10.01.2017
- Enabled roof cladding for shed and shed w/ ledger rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su276_800.jpg&hash=6aa3355ae82597c0340e2b618bcc862d)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/074ab446-7fa3-439f-aba7-694d3823335f/Shed-Roof-Variants
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 04, 2017, 08:15:37 PM
Version 2.0.1 - 10.04.2017
- Added (FULL) roof return option within the advanced options menu for common, scissor and vaulted trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su277_800.jpg&hash=65404f5eecfdbeea5881353e8d25dce0)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 06, 2017, 07:59:17 PM
Version 2.0.1b - 10.06.2017
- Added ceiling joist option for Hip Rafter Roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su278_800.jpg&hash=2f531b24664619cb28ab7dbc2006317f)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2017, 10:32:56 AM
Inset floor joists for sawn lumber and I-joists is now running, (with and without ledger).  I will need to test it further and then roll a new revision:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su279_800.jpg&hash=b3f4be19cb74bffa43cc31d810675037)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su280_800.jpg&hash=ca71b0c0368ef42c071de0478917a188)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2017, 02:35:06 PM
Version 2.0.2 - 10.07.2017
- Added the option to inset floor joists with ledger.
- Added the option to inset floor joists without ledger.

I just realized that today is the two year anniversary of the Truss Plugin, crazy to think that I've already been working on this thing for two years.  Progress has been incremental but fairly steady.  There are still some big obstacles and goals ahead.

The new inset option also works well if you are using joist pockets in the foundation:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su281_800.jpg&hash=a31700b81c4c6a5b67fd48714af98fdc)

This model was created with the Truss Plugin and the Foundation Plugin.  Foundation wall is 8" thick with the pockets set at 2.25" deep and the bearing length of the joists set at 2".  The floor sheathing layer is turned off for clarity.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/cfa8f834-6a60-4175-b393-cfa39223c244/TJI-Floor-and-Foundation
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2017, 07:14:30 PM
Version 2.0.2b - 10.07.2017
- I-Joists are branded with respective manufacturer's logo.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su282_800.jpg&hash=154f1a16576b3d653b188838d62a5c1b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: MountainDon on October 07, 2017, 08:04:24 PM
[cool]  You have done amazing things with this Nathaniel.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 09, 2017, 08:13:23 PM
With the inset joists I thought it would be really cool to have the plugin be able to auto-select the correct joist hanger and insert it at both ends of the I-joist or sawn lumber.  I quickly modeled up a simplified version of an IUS1.81/11.88 Simpson Face-Mount I-Joist hanger and with the addition of one simple function I was able to do this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su283_800.jpg&hash=8f7e0b86d0d603f3367d1bc13a23eca5)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/96cd27dc-3e84-43d6-98cf-b22575c0526d/TJI-Floor-and-Foundation-with-Hangers

I haven't yet released this most recent addition because I only have two sizes of hangers created so far.  There are five typical flange widths and the following typical I-joists depths:  9.5, 11.875, 14, and 16.  So if you do the math I need to model 20 different face mount I-Joist hangers and 20 top flange I-joist hangers (IUS and ITS series).  For sawn lumber a similar situation exists for 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 and 2x12 joists.

I was considering using the official Simpson models from the 3D Warehouse but they are too complex, a minimalistic hanger gets the point across just as well.

When I get home from work I usually only have a couple hours to hammer away at things so some more low hanging fruit gets picked.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 10, 2017, 03:09:15 PM
The IUS hanger family:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ce6a9edf-2429-4dab-a664-d1db6f332bd8/IUS-Hangers
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 11, 2017, 07:27:40 PM
Top flange hangers without a ledger:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su284_800.jpg&hash=d891b6a7994df443aab7d0d4b46be49e)

This is a Simpson ITS1.81/9.5, this is the equivalent to the the IUS series but in  top flange configuration.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 13, 2017, 04:41:25 PM
The ITS hanger family:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/5bafc450-3dda-4443-a526-f10019c16ddf/Simpson-Strong-Tie-ITS-Face-Mount-Hangers

The following hangers are included:

ITS1.81/9.5
ITS1.81/11.88
ITS1.81/14
ITS1.81/16

ITS2.06/9.5
ITS2.06/11.88
ITS2.06/14
ITS2.06/16

ITS2.37/9.5
ITS2.37/11.88
ITS2.37/14
ITS2.37/16

ITS2.56/9.5
ITS2.56/11.88
ITS2.56/14
ITS2.56/16

ITS3.56/9.5
ITS3.56/11.88
ITS3.56/14
ITS3.56/16
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 13, 2017, 06:23:50 PM
Version 2.0.3 - 10.13.2017
- Added the option to provide a face mount hanger for inset floor joists with ledgers.
- Added the option to provide a top flange hanger for inset floor joists without ledgers.
- Added an option in the global settings to enable or disable manufacturer's logos.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 14, 2017, 08:53:36 AM
Version 2.0.3b - 10.14.2017

- Face mount hangers added for solid sawn floor joists.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su285_800.jpg&hash=f619ab8c7a67533b43814512f0f26e65)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su286_800.jpg&hash=bcdb62cb734ba582d0bb356eb0323498)

LUS24
LUS26
LUS28
LUS210 (this hanger used by both 2x10 and 2x12 joists)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 14, 2017, 09:46:03 PM
Version 2.0.3c - 10.14.2017

- Added Red Built Red-I™ I-joists: 45, 65, 90, 90H, 90HS.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su287_800.jpg&hash=f3b666d19a9dcce2ccc9564189bae9d2)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 15, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
Version 2.0.3d - 2017.10.15
- Added PinkWood SAFEjoists™ I-joists: PKI 10, PKI 20, PKI 23, PKI 35Plus, PKI 40, PKI 50.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su288_800.jpg&hash=1d4cbab0a332f3662994630f8b0a3a59)

This I-joist manufacturer has a pink protective coating on the ends. The purpose of the end coating is to protect the joist against moisture penetration.

In addition, PinkWood offers Class A and Class B Fire Rated joists often referred to as "SAFEJoists". These joists are protected with an intumescent Fire Rated Coating, and have tan colored coating on the web.

Now that I've got things configured correctly it is quite easy for me to add in new manufacturers and their entire series of I-joists.  If you are interested in seeing a particular brand added to the plugin please feel free to contact me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 19, 2017, 06:19:17 AM
A request today for the barrel vault truss.  I had been working on the algorithm for this truss type about 18 months ago but the lack of interest caused me to stop.  Below is a matrix of potential configurations:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftruss%2FBARREL_VAULT%2FBARRELVAULT_STUDY1_REVA2.jpg&hash=18037bfda3f84477785d841d8fdc7a05)

If anyone has some shop drawings for this truss type that they are willing to share I would be grateful.

I will try and knock this one out next week.  I will probably utilize an html/svg UI since the look and feel of this truss type will be important to the designer (barrel height and barrel width).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Rys on October 19, 2017, 09:06:53 AM
I'm looking for a parallel chord roof truss for a very open feel. Is this something you will have available in your plug-ins?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 20, 2017, 08:12:40 AM
I've got some direction on how to deal with engineering for beams and joists, not high on the priority list right now but I've been giving it some thought:

https://forums.sketchup.com/t/intersecting-faces-or-edges/53452

At first gathering the geometric information from the model seemed the most challenging aspect of this problem but after giving it more thought, dealing with multi-span beams with various distributed and point loads is also not a trivial problem.  My current beam calculator is very limited in this respect and can only handle very simple loading on a single span.

http://design.medeek.com/resources/beam/beam_calculator.pl

And yet even with the simplicity of the span and loading the logic and calculations required is fairly substantial.  The output of the beam calculator will attest to this.

To properly analyze a multi-span beam with complex loading requires some magic from my engineering texts (ie. matrix analysis).  Since beams and joists are one dimensional as compared with trusses (two dimensional) the math is not nearly as cumbersome but it should prove to be a bit of a challenge.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 20, 2017, 08:16:59 AM
I'm looking for a parallel chord roof truss for a very open feel. Is this something you will have available in your plug-ins?

I just need to make a minor tweak to the scissor truss which would allow for a parallel chord truss, I will look at it this evening.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Rys on October 20, 2017, 10:14:33 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 21, 2017, 01:43:33 PM
Version 2.0.4 - 10.21.2017
- Added Parallel Chord (vaulted) truss type, configurations: (2/2, 4/4, 6/6).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su291_800.jpg&hash=23d7ca934916c0e5101dfb6ba4711ea8)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su292_800.jpg&hash=860bf160c152aeabc20e69f9fedde4f8)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su294_800.jpg&hash=f3e9076da313da49fe6bafc4a509d169)

I will still need to enable structural outlookers and plates for this truss type, but everything else should be there:

- Roof Sheathing
- Gable Wall Sheathing
- Ceiling Gypsum
- Ridge Cap

etc...

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/1a7064f4-b059-46ff-928b-7b2408185555/Parallel-Chord-Truss-Roof-Vaulted
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 21, 2017, 02:42:28 PM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su293_800.jpg&hash=4cc840486c83846224dbf7569927dcd6)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Rys on October 22, 2017, 01:28:22 AM
Thanks! This is just what I needed. Now if I can just figure out sketch up!   ???
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 22, 2017, 09:30:58 AM
Version 2.0.4b - Added the 8/8 configuration:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su295_800.jpg&hash=d1cdc4c4570deef293f5440016d1a572)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Rys on October 22, 2017, 01:30:04 PM
I was thinking of doing either a 10/12 or 12/12 pitch over a twenty four foot span.
Do you think that would be to steep?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 23, 2017, 03:52:25 PM
I just ran a 12/12 pitch with a 6/6 parallel chord truss with a 24" heel height.  Looks pretty good to me but ultimately the design is dependent on the engineering which will depend on your snow and wind loads (site specific).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 24, 2017, 11:22:29 AM
I don't know if is something I will add in right away but gutters has been added to my list.  I think that making the gutter a solid makes it easier to work with manually and that the top being covered or solid does not really affect the appearance detrimentally.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su297_800.jpg&hash=bfbdfb17a1dce30ba1d8175504318a6b)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/7aa80c75-5183-4aed-b0fb-ee54aa094fe0/Hip-and-Ridge-Medeek-Office

What is the typical distance to drop the gutter from the top edge of the fascia?  I've never installed gutters so my knowledge of this component is completely non-existent.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 24, 2017, 02:46:11 PM
I've been contacted by a truss designer who uses Mitek software.  He wanted to know if there was a way to bring my truss models directly into the Mitek Engineering software.  Apparently there is a .mxf file format that is already utilized by a Revit plugin to do this exact thing.  If I can get the specifications of the .mxf file format I can probably setup an export feature which will allow the full truss assembly to be exported directly into Mitek.  This would be convenient for the truss technician, eliminating some of his workload and manual entry.

I've contacted Mitek's support staff inquiring about the the .mxf file format and if they would entertain the idea of my plugin be able to transmit truss designs directly to their software.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 24, 2017, 06:42:20 PM
About a year ago I added some code into the plugin to phone home when a new installation occurs.  This tells me the IP address (geographic location) of the installation as well some other data such as the plugin version number and whether or not it is the trial or full version.

Recently I have noticed a number of installations of the full version of the plugin that show a bogus version number (2.8.8 ) and they are all coming from China.  The leads me to believe that the plugin has been hacked and possibly those hacked copies are being distributed but so far not widely.

I guess the upside is that if the hackers are trying to crack the program it must be worth their time and hence I've put together a fairly substantial product.

On the next release I will include some additional error checking which will hopefully thwart these would be hackers.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 25, 2017, 02:42:13 AM
International intrigue... you're in the big time now  :D
Make sure you have good backup.
That would be a win/win for Mitek IMO... I'd think they would want to help out, technically and financially. I take up a fair amount of a tech's time playing "what if". When your program is fully functional and integrated with theirs I can weed out the left field stuff and hand him a pretty narrow field of options.

Under the roof truss advanced option tab, its long enough I can't seem to get to the bottom of it to approve. Can you resize font or make it scrollable... or is it me?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 26, 2017, 05:07:08 AM
The advanced options menu has become too large.  I need to create an html version of the menu that splits it up into two or three tables.  You are not the only one having this issue.  I have a large screen at home so I didn't not notice this issue until I was playing around with the plugin on my old laptop (15" screen).  I will address it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 27, 2017, 06:01:56 AM
SketchUp Essentials has put together a nice overview of the plugin.

https://youtu.be/dKtpJkCn3Cs
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on October 27, 2017, 07:46:18 AM
c* [cool] [cool]
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 28, 2017, 08:06:23 PM
Gutters:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su298_800.jpg&hash=5ca398d92f8674e4c7f16118c5d52ecf)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 29, 2017, 07:43:18 AM
The half round gutter type (U6):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su299_800.jpg&hash=d81551dace044c948aca89c30f45e9d5)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 30, 2017, 06:09:52 AM
Version 2.0.4c - 10.30.2017

This sub-release has the gutter menu added to the global settings as well as a new roof layer added for gutters in the layer menu.

You can't actually create any gutters yet but you can test out the new GUI in the global settings and offer any feedback.

I am still working out the algorithm for the downspouts.  My intent is to use the standard rectangular profile downspout material for the K-Style gutter and a round profile downspout for the U-Style (half round) gutter.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 30, 2017, 10:27:35 AM
The gutter extension is how much the gutter extends past the rake board on a gable roof, this does not apply to a hip roof or dutch hip roof.

The vertical offset is the distance the gutter drops down from the top edge of the fascia board, the default is zero.

With a metric template the dimensions are given in mm or metres with the grid shown in cm.  In US units dimensions are in inches or feet with the grid shown in inches.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 01, 2017, 09:00:41 PM
Preview of the E-Style or "Box Gutter":

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su301_800.jpg&hash=5d4a40c69001e04b7d3010c6529069d3)

Note that I've also added the downspout options and parameters.  The units don't show in this screen shot but they will within the plugin.

This type of gutter is probably more common in commercial applications.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 05, 2017, 03:22:44 PM
Version 2.0.5 - 11.05.2017
- Added gutters and downspouts for rafter and truss hip roofs.
- Custom roof layer added for gutters in the layer menu within the global settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su302_800.jpg&hash=c4e2cf3617690871ccf29c672632237c)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su303_800.jpg&hash=e4bc24ba3aff13509118917514e3d28a)

I still need to add gutters and downspouts to the gable roofs (truss and rafter).

Four gutter types with two different downspout types.

This is a new feature so please send me your feedback and I will try to address all of the issues.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 05, 2017, 10:21:03 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su304_800.jpg&hash=3f40321cf298637dd121f4e4588eff01)

K-Style gutter with "2x3" downspouts.

I may need to add a few more user configurable variables:

- offset from bldg. corner (currently I have it offset 0" from the framing)
- offset from framed wall (currently I have it offset 1" from the framing)
- downspout radius (currently set at 3" @ CL)
- downspout drop (currently set at 3" before the first bend)

Right now these values are all hard coded into the plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 06, 2017, 07:16:08 AM
Version 2.0.5b - 11.06.2017

- Fixed a minor bug with the downspout module, downspout solid is now a uniform extrusion with no unnecessary seams or edges.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 07, 2017, 05:31:12 AM
Version 2.0.5c - 11.07.2017

- Fixed a minor bug with the gutter layer for installation upgrades of the plugin.

If you have version 2.0.5b please upgrade to this version or be sure to open up the global settings and click on the layers tab, this will create the default gutter layer setting.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 10, 2017, 07:41:06 PM
Version 2.0.6 - 11.10.2017
- Added gutters and downspouts for rafter and truss gable roofs.
- Added gutters and downspouts for dutch gable rafter roofs.

I still need to add gutters to monoslope truss roofs, shed roofs and some other specialized truss roofs.  Adding the gutters to the common truss roof became slightly more complicated when I realized I also had to deal with roof returns and their various configurations.

This gable roof has a hip return with fully wrapped gutter, you can also choose to half wrap or no wrap (linear gutter only at eaves, does not wrap around corner).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su306_800.jpg&hash=175aa2673062df9d163e2381a0b2b593)

The dutch gable is really no different than the regular hip roof, when it comes to the gutter and its configuration, but internally it is a completely different set of advanced options.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 11, 2017, 06:24:12 AM
Half wrap of a hip roof return:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su307_800.jpg&hash=601681416d2388a0d25d3fe738f9c46e)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su308_800.jpg&hash=c29852b7970508b47b509fb73906ee8a)

All of the gutters and downspouts are constructed as solids so that it is easy to manipulate them with Pro's boolean tools or other third party solid tools.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 11, 2017, 10:11:06 PM
Version 2.0.6b - 2017.11.11

I've added a text file in the materials sub-folder that allows one to modify the available materials (colors) for the gutters within the global settings menu.

The default values are:

8B4513:BROWN
B87333:COPPER
C0C0C0:SILVER
FFD700:GOLD
8B0000:DARK RED
0000CD:MEDIUM BLUE
006400:DARK GREEN
556B2F:DARK OLIVE GREEN
FFFFF0:IVORY

If all of these custom materials are deleted then only "white" will be available "FFFFFF" in the global settings.

The first six letters is the RGB value for the color, the description after the colon is the color name.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 12, 2017, 06:01:22 PM
The Medeek Seal of Authenticity:

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23519149_10213457527139908_2817797360681811627_n.jpg?oh=bc12954c4889002c2b727602a7fe4453&oe=5A9C8879)

This will be shown in the new license tab of the plugin global settings when the copy is fully registered.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on November 13, 2017, 03:29:26 AM
"Nothing was used once"?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 16, 2017, 07:29:52 AM
"Where once there was nothing"
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 16, 2017, 07:30:49 AM
Version 2.0.7 - 11.16.2017
- Minor updates to the licensing system.

I've spent a couple days on adding language support but was unable to roll it out with this latest release.  I will keep working on this in the next few days and hopefully have something to show for my efforts with the next major release.

As far as languages go I am planning on producing language files for each of the SU supported languages.

Any help with translating some of these very construction specific terms and phrases would be greatly appreciated.  Google translate seems to work quite well but I don't completely trust some of its translations.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 16, 2017, 10:03:27 PM
Starting to make some head way on the translation / language support:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su309_800.jpg&hash=b2a1f997251b352f74df5cf7234e2774)

I've decided to devise my own language handler since I could not get the built in one to work.

The upside is that this allows me so support any language I choose, not just the languages supported by SketchUp.  I will be adding in an option in the general settings where the user can select their language of choice.

I will also be storing the language data in a new sub-folder "lang".  My intent is to be able to make it possible for the user to add their own language file and translations if they need to.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 17, 2017, 10:28:16 PM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su310_800.jpg&hash=8a59b9763c30077e1003410d3811f2ac)

Fortunately, I know a little Japanese so I think I've got these more or less correct.  I will probably need to have a native Japanese speaker who is familiar with the construction industry check these over for me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 18, 2017, 10:00:02 AM
I've added in a language option into the General tab of the Global Settings:

I currently have nine languages that I will support however if there are any others that you would like to see added please feel free to suggest one.

I think this method is preferable over using the locale of the installed plugin since someone that is running a french version of SketchUp may want to run the plugin in English or some other combination.  This allows the user to customize their user experience exactly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 18, 2017, 10:29:05 PM
Version 2.0.8 - 11.18.2017
- Added language support for the following languages: French, Spanish, German, Russian, Swedish, Japanese, Korean, Chinese.
- Added a language option in to the "General Tab" of the Global Settings.
- Fixed a bug in the gutter module for metric templates.

There is still a huge amount of work to get all of the menus translated into the eight languages given above.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 19, 2017, 08:49:26 AM
I apologize Version 2.0.8 had a fatal flaw in it that thankfully someone pointed out to me this morning.  Please re-download sub-rev. 2.0.8b which addresses this issue immdediately.

The problem is that I am encrypting the .rb files into .rbs when I sign the plugin.  I don't want to encrypt the language files in the "lang" folder however the signing page did not know to discriminate so it encrypted those files as well and hence broke my links to them from the plugin load module.

Once I sign the extension and encrypted it I had to re-open the .rbz and put back in the unencrypted language files, problem solved.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 19, 2017, 09:49:54 PM
Web based (HTML) user inputs will also require translation.  These are a little more challenging than the regular (non-graphical) UI but nothing a little javascript could not overcome.

Here is the gutter tab of the global settings translated into Japanese:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su312_800.jpg&hash=3ca08809f9af44238c9ededd308f3c82)

The translation (creation of language files) for each menu and alert will take some time and effort.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 23, 2017, 05:16:15 AM
Back to complex roofs.  I've been giving some thought to complex truss roofs and how to handle L-shaped roofs and their derivatives.  Basically there is three ways to frame them out, which one is the most standard or preferred?

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/0d42dfb9-8059-40a9-afb9-e0f5a8c346df/Hip-Study-2

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/0d2f77aa-207c-457d-8315-9012eabb958e/Hip-Study-2B

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/cab9b658-f458-4453-b276-e8a9bb34bfb2/Hip-Study-2C
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 23, 2017, 04:10:47 PM
Valley sets can get a little interesting when you start dealing with intersecting hip roofs.  If the width of the projection were to increase the valley set would become a combination of standard valley trusses and flat top or hip valley trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su316_800.jpg&hash=df2099e3b7ec4e5d87144123c8da4268)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/9bf5fd1a-e2db-4346-9596-d044bf4a1cd7/Complex-Roof-6
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 25, 2017, 12:38:48 AM
Version 2.0.9 - 11.25.2017
- Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Parallel Chord truss type.
- Metal plate connectors now enabled for all parallel chord trusses.

This truss type should now be up-to-date with all of the advanced options available:

roof returns, gutters, ceiling drywall, ridge cap etc...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 28, 2017, 07:51:00 PM
Version 2.1.0 - 11.28.2017
- Added Northeast hip set trusses.
- Enabled advanced options for northeast hip sets.
- Added energy/raised heels for northeast hip set (3 variants: wedge, slider and vertical w/ strut).
- Added the option for open vs. closed end jacks.
- Added the option for a drop in purlin frame.
- Enabled a graphical user interface for Truss Set selection.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su319_800.jpg&hash=3deb269d2866c622391a99d9aed6ca1f)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su320_800.jpg&hash=9d823fe9da5366bbff72f79738e02e9f)

I only plan on adding the midwest and california variants if requested.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 29, 2017, 10:30:36 AM
The reason I am taking so long with complex rafter and truss roofs is the possible permutations is making things very challenging.

For example take the truss roof below:

I'm assuming there are no interior bearing walls and we want to clearspan the entire building outline.  I can get the basic roof and truss layout by creating to hip truss sets as primitives but that is where it then becomes very interesting.

As you can see there are two mid-building girder trusses that then catch the mono pitch sub-girders which are each supporting two common trusses.  Next to the sub-girders is a small valley set (half valley) that fills in the roof behind the sub-girders.

The largest span is 36', which is reasonable.  This appears to be the simplest way to truss this roof out but is probably not the only solution.  A good truss technician could tell me how close I am to the optimal solution.

Granted the complex rafter roof is not IMHO as hard a problem but it also has similar difficulties and issues.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/24c19aa6-814a-4e9e-aa42-a0e0de1ba74c/Complex-Truss-Roof-8
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 03, 2017, 08:38:10 PM
As the number of advanced options have increased (common trusses) the user input menu has slowly grown in size until it is so large that it often does not fit the screen of many laptops and smaller screens.

This problem has been well documented by a number of users for quite some time.

This weekend I spent some time putting together a new HTML menu for advanced options for roof trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su323_800.jpg&hash=2b82a2c0b6c6d1c584ce50b57a0aaa11)

I still need to work out the metric version and also all of the language translations but otherwise I think it is almost ready to roll out.

As you mouse over each of the options a 320x240 image will display as shown, hopefully clarifying the meaning or usage of each parameter/option.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 10, 2017, 08:40:20 AM
I am working on adding the heel blocking since it is an option listed in the advanced options.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su324_800.jpg&hash=c3426e56b6b30fc2b5198384a8050d22)

So far there has not been much call for this feature but a few people have inquired so I figured we might as well add it in for completeness.  The red coloration is for clarity in the image above.

I will probably add the option to allow for venting holes since this is fairly typical in my neck of the woods.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 11, 2017, 12:48:50 PM
Featured on the SketchUp Extension Inspection:

https://youtu.be/C4bW3dFPuUA
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 13, 2017, 07:18:30 AM
The license registration module was causing some problems in isolated cases so I've released a sub-rev. 2.1.1b to address that issue.

If you are trying to enter in your serial number and it does not appear to take, first verify that you are not entering in any leading or trailing white spaces if that does not solve the problem you may be encountering the issue at top, in that case download the latest version which should address the issue fully.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 18, 2017, 07:49:28 AM
Version 2.1.2 - 12.18.2017
- Enabled vertical and angled heel blocking within the advanced options for truss roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su325_800.jpg&hash=91421242464e97d3c3c689c9edd12fde)

If you choose to enable vent holes the heelblock menu will prompt for the hole diameter.  The vent hole algorithm will place vent holes in the heel blocking per the truss spacing:

< 12 in. = 1 vent hole
< 16 in. = 2 vent holes
16 in. or greater = 3 vent holes

Let me know if this makes sense, I can always modify it to meet any criteria.  If this sort of thing varies a lot per locale I can also make it more user definable.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 18, 2017, 01:30:20 PM
This type of heel blocking is very typical in my locale (Western Washington State):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su326_800.jpg&hash=226e55ba5661fda0f57cf59d77a5deb2)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/e1a1a1de-b44d-4f0a-af0a-8954bb00f44c/Heel-Blocking-of-a-Gable-Roof
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 19, 2017, 05:47:17 PM
How does that work with the insulation baffle unless the holes are at the upper edge? It looks like that would be wind washing into the insulation rather than over it. Do you use button louvers in each hole or screen backing, or?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 27, 2017, 10:48:08 PM
I've been thinking about adding in the option to show H1 ties for rafters and trusses:

(https://embed.widencdn.net/img/ssttoolbox/ztwjogo5os/500px@1x/H1%20(inst).jpeg?quality=80&u=cjmyin&crop=0)

I've seen them mounted both on the exterior and the interior with the flanges facing both inward and outward, four possible configurations.  Any preference on how these are typically installed.  I'm sure there is probably not much call for these but it isn't a big deal to add in the option for those that would like to use it.

I am currently featuring Simpson Strong-Tie hardware in the Truss Plugin, not because I am specifically endorsing their products or the brand but because that is  what I am most familiar with and their products are readily available in the US and Canada.  Mitek also makes comparable hardware and probably has better availability outside of the US and Canada.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 27, 2017, 10:50:27 PM
How does that work with the insulation baffle unless the holes are at the upper edge? It looks like that would be wind washing into the insulation rather than over it. Do you use button louvers in each hole or screen backing, or?

I agree the location of the holes seems problematic in my opinion.  However, this is very typical construction in Western Washington, I guess there is little to no insulation at the eaves, not very good for cold climates since it creates a thermal bridge at the eaves.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on December 28, 2017, 03:44:23 AM
I've applied them inside and out. The drywall crew will talk to you if they have to go over them inside. Correctly they are outside to avoid a plate rolling problem in the load path which follows the outside. I believe they are also correctly installed as you show, framing to framing. However, I like to have the walls sheathed and braced prior to raising the roof so typically they are applied as we box the soffits. We use the twisted straps most here.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 06, 2018, 06:48:07 PM
http://design.medeek.com/resources/pluginvendors.html

List of material suppliers and vendors featured in the Medeek Truss Plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 12, 2018, 10:01:51 AM
The last few days I've been spending some time tightening up the code for the attic truss module.  I will be adding in the heel wedge and slider option for raised/energy heels for this truss type as well as bringing it up to speed with other options.

If I get ambitious I will also add in gable end trusses and plates.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 20, 2018, 04:38:48 PM
Version 2.1.4 - 01.20.2018
- Completed energy/raised heels for attic trusses (2 variants: wedge and slider).
- Added floor sheathing and attic gypsum for attic trusses.
- Created a separate HTML menu for advanced options of attic trusses.
- Enabled gable end trusses for attic trusses.
- Hurricane ties enabled for attic trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su330_800.jpg&hash=61666e605a628ffeb9353c7254e98054)

The gable end trusses for attic truss sets currently do not have any vertical studs as of yet, however the actual truss component is unique and different from the common attic trusses.

I also need to add in some logic for the gable end wall framing which is still absent.  I am curious if anyone has experience or examples of this framed out, do you use a single or double top plate?  I don't see a reason to use a double top plate in this situation.

Naturally the gable end wall may involve some windows or doors so there will be some overlap with the wall plugin, I am still thinking about how best to integrate the two plugins.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 24, 2018, 06:07:35 AM
Had to take a break from programming for a few days because of family reasons (ie. medical emergencies), sometimes life happens.

The break though has let me take a step back and reconsider some of the items on my various "todo" lists.

I'm beginning to realize that the plugin has quite a following in locations other than the US so it is imperative that the metric menus are fully up to speed with all of my imperial menus and options.  I will be going back through my code and checking all of the metric menus to make sure that they are up-to-date and fully functional.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 24, 2018, 02:07:53 PM
Bill Allen sent me this model today, and gave me permission to post about it.  The structure has the following assemblies:

(3) attic trusses
(2) common trusses
(1) mono pitch truss
(1) scissor truss
(1) tail bearing truss
(3) valley sets
(1) gable roof rafter set

I was really quite impressed by the complexity of the model and the various roof lines.  This model is just one of a number of iterations.

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 25, 2018, 02:06:07 PM
Slightly better render of the roof Bill Allen put together:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on January 25, 2018, 06:20:16 PM
I hope the family medical emergency is ok.
Very impressive roof! I downloaded and rolled around a little bit. The only thing I noticed, switch on the roof sheeting and look at the outside valley formed by the two attic truss roof planes, right at the bottom of the valley it needs a little work to close that in, about 3 o'clock in the image in your last post. He did quite a nice job with a very complex roof.

Do you know what happens with your work with regards to the fee only Sketchup that seems to be on the horizon. Is everything going to become fee only?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 27, 2018, 03:36:16 AM
SketchUp Make 2017 is still available for free and will be available into the foreseeable future.  I am quite disappointed with Trimble's decision to get rid of the free version and try to replace it with a web based browser version (with no plugins).  I am hoping they will reconsider their decision and offer the Make version even if it means a nominal fee for its usage.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2018, 11:01:50 AM
I've had an ongoing issue with Mac users who are running SU2018.  I still have not determined the underlying cause but when the user enters in their serial number it will not save.

With SU 2018 the .plist file is no longer relevant and I think this may be why the plugin is having problems saving the serial number.

The current workaround is:

For Mac latest OS, you hold down the option key and then click GO menu. The Go Menu displays.

Click on Library and the hidden library folder opens.

Then you can access application support, SketchUP2018/Sketchup/Plugins/PrivatePreferences.json.

OpenPrivatePreferences.json in BBEdit, add the license number and replace the word "TRIAL",  then save your changes and open SketchUP 2018 and check the plugins license status in the global settings.

I am currently working on a more permanent resolution for this problem.

I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused some of our Mac users and I hope to role out a resolution with the next version release.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 28, 2018, 09:45:44 PM
Version 2.1.4b - 01.28.2018
- Added a graphical user interface for (metric) advanced options of truss roofs.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 11, 2018, 09:14:10 PM
I've been making some progress on the advanced options for the gambrel attic truss.  Since this type of roof has three different pitches it requires an entire rewrite of the advanced roof options module.

I've got the floor sheathing, fascia, rakeboard, roof sheathing and wall sheathing and cladding completed and working, see below:

The items still remaining are:

- gutters
- heelblocking
- outlookers
- gypsum

I am still debating on how best to handle the gable wall framing, same scenario for regular attic trusses, I may just wrap that into the upcoming wall plugin, I'm not sure yet.

Even though this truss type is quite specialized it seems to also be quite popular hence my efforts to bring it up to speed with the common and attic truss.

I am slowly trying to bring each truss type up to the level that the common truss type is and have all applicable advanced options available.

I have decided to eliminate roof returns for the gambrel attic truss type for now, at some later date I may entertain adding that feature in for this truss type.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 14, 2018, 09:25:29 AM
Knocked out the update to the cladding and ridge cap last night. I've released 2.1.4d so that everyone can test out the advanced options.

The following advanced options (gambrel attic) must be turned off currently:

- gutters
- gypsum
- heel blocking

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750592_10214216741279787_6221964313667074646_n.jpg?oh=8374ae3d69a3c68de10ed35568da296c&oe=5B1305F5)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 15, 2018, 11:27:52 PM
All of the remaining advanced options (gutters, gypsum, heelblocks, outlookers) are now in place for the Gambrel Attic Truss, at least as many as I am going to attempt right now.  I still need to figure out structural outlookers for this truss type so that permutation of the outlooker option will be disabled for now.

Also note that for this truss type the heelblocking is only allowed to be vertically oriented, however I am willing to entertain angled heel blocks if someone can provide some form of documentation showing how they would be installed in a non-vertical orientation.

I have a bit more tidying up to do with the new Html menu for this truss type and then I should be able to roll it out tomorrow or this weekend.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su335_800.jpg&hash=0c4cc448b80c69456718766e7a252406)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su336_800.jpg&hash=753d5d66413141e49cc12645e225b736)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/88926fae-ba94-4bc9-94ea-b4fa4d726eb0/Medeek-Office-12
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 16, 2018, 09:09:58 PM
Version 2.1.5 - 02.16.2018
- Added floor sheathing and attic gypsum for gambrel attic trusses.
- Added roof cladding, sheathing and ridge cap for gambrel attic trusses.
- Created a separate HTML menu for advanced options of gambrel attic trusses.
- Enabled gable end trusses for gambrel attic trusses.
- Enabled hurricane ties for gambrel attic trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su338_800.jpg&hash=5c9a95a3065d003a595801530547219f)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su337_800.jpg&hash=851f241e4e0bba705ae549a845e8625e)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 18, 2018, 03:33:24 AM
The crow's beak for the gambrel attic roof has been on my todo list for about a year and a half now.  Grateful that I was able to somehow find the time to put this one together tonight.

The projection of the crows beak and the length along the rake can both be set by the user.

I will roll this out tomorrow as 2.1.5b once I've finished testing it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su340_800.jpg&hash=d9335e9a830928f5e009282ff1cc6289)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/08d071ff-0c81-4ab1-b3c3-b04a59748212/Gambrel-Garage-with-a-Crows-Beak
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 18, 2018, 12:45:33 PM
I've added in thumbnails to the sheathing tab of the global settings so the user can preview the wall and roof cladding materials:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su341_800.jpg&hash=bf532223eb6b792293f7c6d0d6ef4f69)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 18, 2018, 09:43:56 PM
This barn is very similar to the one we had at our first farm in Terrace B.C. Canada:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su342_800.jpg&hash=46e7f3886211fe96db7ae976d589128f)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su343_800.jpg&hash=5f285d02333b0f4f08e59c1cb262d540)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su344_800.jpg&hash=dc95f3ab20a00fb67a4e06fc5176e604)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su345_800.jpg&hash=5d5aa6207a4fb0a9afcd626fdf3692d2)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su346_800.jpg&hash=a3a45743e1a6d1eb0ee13572175879b1)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su347_800.jpg&hash=2e21b347a2c966e049ccd461385f739d)

Foundation was created with the foundation plugin.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/6f8e3035-06d1-4a56-9912-bb46e18ce7fe/Barn-2
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 19, 2018, 11:00:58 AM
The thing I find very interesting with the gambrel roof is the two pitches, whereas with your typical gable roof you only have one pitch and each side of the roof is simply the hypotenuse of half the span  and the height of the peak.

With a gambrel roof you have the two legs of the roof and the two pitches and an infinite number of possible combinations and hence a large variety in the shape of the gambrel roof.

Ultimately this led me to create the HTML/SVG preview  panel so that the user can play with the various parameters until the desired gambrel shape is achieved.  I believe this is where the real power in this plugin in manifest, in situations where an architectural element can be realized by incrementally adjusting parameters within the user interface.

A common truss is much more simpler than the gambrel but a similar preview screen would be helpful in my opinion.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 20, 2018, 08:30:25 AM
As I was creating the various test models for the gambrel attic truss yesterday I realized that the color I had initially set for the gypsum material was slightly off white, which for my particular case was just fine.  However, after giving it second thought I realized that the gypsum color (material) should also be configurable so I added in one additional setting into the sheathing tab.

Then my 13 year old son (Jared) suggested that I implement some sort of color picker since most people don't equate a hexadecimal RGB value with any particular color (ie. #FF2C9F).  I found a simple javascript based color picker and modified it to fit my needs, hopefully this is somewhat helpful.

Under the materials tab I will probably implement similar options where one can modify the color of the lumber and the pressure treated lumber.  For now I will probably keep the plywood and the OSB material/texture as default.  If someone really wants to modify those it is simply a matter of replacing the .jpg image with their own custom image within the plugin folder.

Since javascript tends to be a bit browser dependent I am curious how well this works on MacOS with the background browser running as Safari, please let me know if there are any issues.

The color boxes at the bottom of the color picker provide some shades of grey as well as the default Medeek colors for: lumber, pressure treated lumber, gypsum.

This minor update is rolled into sub-revision 2.1.5c.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28059113_10214266432122027_4669586998471107624_n.jpg?oh=fb58720238d1b489fbb2d9d4207ab84d&oe=5B1C6DA9)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 20, 2018, 11:57:44 AM
I took a step back today and pulled my head out of the sand, so to speak.

The truss plugin does some pretty cool stuff and its fairly detailed where I've fleshed out certain truss and roof types. However, it is missing one major feature or has a major flaw depending on how you want to word it.

Currently the plugin is "fire and forget", with no ability to edit an existing roof or floor assembly.  This needs to change.

I have a mental picture of how I want to handle this but there may be some flaws with my thinking.

I briefly discussed this with a few others at this thread:

My idea is to right click on a roof or floor assembly, then click "Edit Assembly" at which point the plugin will bring up a very concise list of parameters for the assembly.  Changing any one of the various parameters or settings will essentially redraw the entire (roof, truss, floor, dormer) assembly.  The list will remain open after each edit and only be closed if the user decides to close it.

My original idea was to have the edit process walk the user back through each UI menu but this is too time consuming and probably unnecessary.

Any manual edits made to the assembly will of course be lost but this is the price of having a fully editable assembly.

I think I can implement this fairly easily, the various modules are all utilized the same as when I originally created the assembly, the only difference being the user interface.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 26, 2018, 07:46:48 AM
Making some good progress on the "edit" function.  I will initially start with the common trusses and then once I am satisfied that those trusses are running stable I will begin to make this feature available for all other truss, rafter and floor assemblies.

I'm a little bogged down with the advanced options (there are too many) but it is just a matter of putting in the time and slogging through all of the data entry and HTML and javascript.  Probably by the end of the week I should have something ready to go and I will roll a release so everyone can begin testing it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 26, 2018, 11:06:30 AM
Has anyone had much experience with SIP walls?  I've been looking at the product offering of Eco Panel:

https://www.eco-panels.com/

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on February 27, 2018, 03:10:25 AM
A little, not these and a decade ago so this is just fodder. Things learned; check and double check rough openings, nothing worse than walking up to an opening with the window in hand and it won't fit. I then had to go back through engineering to modify the panels. Homeowner wanted to add some outlets after the fact, same issue. When I opened up the panels I found voids in the insulation, these were third party inspected, well so much for that. I decided I would want thermal imaging proof if I used them again. The panels were not truly flat, the curing process had left them thicker around the edges than in the field, noticeable on the roof and longer walls. We had to stop in high wind and then bring the crane back out, ka-ching. I'm not in love with hanging siding or anything on just osb. Inside we had a dropped ceiling in one area, there is no framing in the SIP to attach something like that to. At a quick look it appears there are no opening bucks in these, what is door/window attachment, people hammer doors. When you lose a skin to decay you have lost the integrity of that section, greater disturbance of the home vs resheathing and residing over a frame. I do really like the concept but it does require good foresight in the detailing.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 01, 2018, 11:15:12 PM
Looks like I have the soffit cut function working for the hip rafter roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su348_800.jpg&hash=9b06b754e343d14001b87af7490da200)

I will roll this out on the next release.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 01, 2018, 11:16:57 PM
These SIPs sound like they are more trouble than they are worth.  I just really don't like the idea of there not being a "skeleton" to the structure. Your right if the OSB or plywood is damaged then there is really nothing solid holding your house up, it doesn't sit well with me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 02, 2018, 05:31:26 AM
Version 2.1.6 - 03.02.2018
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 03, 2018, 01:59:43 PM
Version 2.1.6b - 03.03.2018
- Added Soffit Cut within Advanced Options for all Shed type Rafter Roofs.
- Added gutters for all Shed type Rafter Roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su349_800.jpg&hash=022702f7fe6812dcaaa615da4aa9eee0)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 05, 2018, 07:22:54 AM
The edit feature is slowly coming to fruition.  I've added so many advanced options to the common truss type that it is quite an ordeal to even put together the HTML form that fully encompasses all of this information and does it in an organized and neat manner.  There is a possibility of 72 unique (user entered) parameters for a common truss assembly.  Some of these are dependent on others, its an interesting web of dependencies (spaghetti) that must be taken into account for the edit feature to work properly.  I've probably got another week just in debugging before I am ready to release the first version of this feature.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 06, 2018, 09:59:39 PM
Version 2.1.7 - 03.06.2018
- Enabled the "Edit Truss Assembly" function for all common roof trusses (imperial units only).

To edit a roof truss assembly just right click on the assembly and select the "Edit Truss Assembly" option.

Note, that this function is only available for common trusses with imperial units (template).  Metric will be next.

It seems to be working fairly robustly but I'm sure there will be some minor bugs that pop up considering the complexity of the code and the sheer numbers of variables that I am working with.

Please report any errors by using the ruby console to record the error and email it to me.

Once this feature has been out for a while as I know it is running fairly stable I will then work on updating all rafter and truss assemblies so that the user can edit them.  I can already see that this will be a very useful upgrade to the plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 07, 2018, 05:43:33 PM

Below is a screenshot of the edit panel:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su350_800.jpg&hash=587ee8ffb700968e1deb56c532c4bb06)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 10, 2018, 08:24:00 PM
Tutorial 7, Edit Function and some changes to the global settings:

https://youtu.be/RWoyZJg6RcQ
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 11, 2018, 09:12:33 AM
Version 2.1.7c - 03.11.2018
- Added ceiling gypsum and ceiling battens to cathedral trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su351_800.jpg&hash=56eb86424de96a993a821db24f64ed72)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su352_800.jpg&hash=58efafbaa0b8eba63752cab8595647b8)

View model here:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 11, 2018, 06:59:12 PM
I've been giving some thought to framed openings in floors, see image below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su353_800.jpg&hash=6f37d352af8da407c37371820488d55e)

Generally, at least from what I've seen most holes in floors are either rectangular, L-shaped or U-shaped, but I guess any outline is possible.

What I've shown in the image above is LSL or LVL framing out the opening however the actual framing might be significantly different depending on what is supporting the floor below.

In some cases the rectangular opening might not be supported by bearing walls from below, in that case the two LSL boards running parallel to the joists would probably be larger beams and the headers would be hangered from these beams and would also probably be more substantial.

The point is how to make this feature flexible enough to accommodate most framed openings but at the same time keeping it as simple as possible so the user is not overwhelmed with parameters.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/a879f0c7-0900-47f5-9caf-acc1c3a53f25/Framed-Opening-TJI-Floor

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I am also going to make this feature editable so that the actual hole can be altered after the fact.  This should be an interesting programming challenge.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 12, 2018, 09:26:40 AM
Alternatively that same opening could be framed as below:

For the size of the opening one would probably use some PSL or LVL Beams rather than a couple of I-Joists but the concept is the same, compare with the previous example where the opening would probably be supported from below by bearing walls.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 15, 2018, 06:25:40 AM
Version 3.1.7d - 03.14.2017
- Addresses a minor bug with the UI menu for common trusses.  The overhang of the truss could be rounded to an integer value upon recreation of another truss set.

I wonder why no one else has noticed the overhang rounding issue.  I just realized it is an artifact from when I had it setup to use a integer value for the overhang, which I eventually changed but I must have forgot to update the rounding function (or remove it) so that non integer values could be input.

It appears this bug only affected common trusses but I will need to go through and check each truss type to make sure the same issue was not replicated elsewhere.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 16, 2018, 06:21:29 PM
Two different ways to truss out a dutch gable roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su354_800.jpg&hash=c864a214e0a950ec70842b8395f7819e)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su355_800.jpg&hash=27e1c26c17a29ed289d81bb5d8baca28)

The first method involves a wailing plate attached to the side of the girder truss.  This appears to be the preferred method of construction in Australia.

The second method employs vertical studs on the gable end portion (upper half) of the girder truss.  What is not entirely clear to me is how the joint comes together at the top chord where the horizontal member (at the top of the jacks) meets the vertical and diagonal web of the girder truss.

I could really use a shop drawing (2D) of this particular configuration.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 18, 2018, 09:18:42 AM
Version 2.1.8 - 03.18.2018
- Enabled the "Edit Floor Assembly" function for all I-Joist floors (imperial and metric units): TJI, BCI, LPI, Red-I, PKI.

Now I just need to get the floor framed opening feature working and then this module might actually be useful.

Realize that any manual edits made to the floor assembly are blown away when you use the edit function.  It is essentially re-drawing the entire floor assembly, the same goes for the roof truss assembly edit feature.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 19, 2018, 08:19:43 AM
Spending some time the last couple of days thinking about the floor module (floor trusses, I-joists, solid sawn joists).

The obvious 800 lbs gorilla is the ability to easily add openings into these floors. The other missing element is the ability to create a polygon shaped floor (something beyond a rectangle outline).

With regards to polygon shaped geometry I've already done the heavy lifting when I programmed the foundation plugin to generate polygon shaped layouts (slab and stemwall).  The details in trimming the joists is also mostly figured out since my rebar and mesh routine for slabs utilizes a function that will form the basis for this function.  It is really just a matter of finding the time and then digging into the code deep for a solid 12+ hour period (uninterrupted).

These two issues are my main focus the next week or two. If I can address both as well have the edit function work seamlessly with both then I will have created an actual functional floor module.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 22, 2018, 04:30:35 PM
I've been looking at adding in the ability to handle dual pitch hip roofs:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su357_800.jpg&hash=b0a7c36578a052157ec51d459ea040ef)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/745938a9-71cf-4fef-8db1-e9ebc305f839/Hip-Roof-Dual-Pitch

The first thing that jumps out at me is the jack rafters do not line up when the pitches are different.  Also if the overhang is the same and the fascia is the same height then the top plate will be a different height for the different pitches.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 23, 2018, 03:59:21 PM
With dual pitch hip roofs technically one could have a different pitch for all four sides (the most general case).  I should probably try to code this most general case then all the rest simply fall out of it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su358_800.jpg&hash=da0f59ba043e80b4210e9ea629505e68)

View model here:

I'm not sure why one would want to construct a roof in this manner but I guess I should probably allow for the possibility.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 23, 2018, 05:09:36 PM
It's been quite awhile but I've done 3 sides of that wrapping a porch around a house at different pitches. The lack of alignment of jacks, they don't "shake hands", is one reason I like to double the hip. You can often maintain plate height and overhang by moving the hip around the corner, drawing from the fascia back.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 24, 2018, 01:57:20 AM
It is certainly an interesting puzzle.  Calculating the commons, jacks and hip rafters is not a problem, I can figure that out.  The one item that has me though is the fact that if each pitch is different and assuming the same overhang all the way around and the same birdsmouth cut then the top plate of each wall will need to be slightly different.  Again I can make that adjustment for each side of the roof for the commons and the jacks.  The real question then is what to do with the birdsmouth cut of the hip rafters?  Which wall height does one use?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Don_P on March 25, 2018, 11:46:13 AM
I try not to change the wall heights, I play with the HAP first, adjust the birdsmouths, the heel height. This is a quickie 8/12 and 4/12, 2' overhangs, same level plates. Drawn from the gutter line. The hip drifts out of the wall corner to the steep side, that answers one question I think. Notice my 4/12 is notched well beyond code. It is iterative when it does work. In the hip I've often ended up with a dragon beam sitting on the wall across the corner diagonally that the hip rests on or against with hangers, then continue with a smaller section out over the wall to the fascia.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fcp%2Fhaphipop.jpg&hash=bc8d82304952db8428b8232a1b6eb3fe)

A dragon beam, This avoids a long birdsmouth inboard of the bearing. The hip got a double hanger prior to buttoning up the ceiling;
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftimbertoolbox.com%2Fcp%2Fdragonopt.jpg&hash=c833368dd0f5c2c93651e413767e4092)

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 27, 2018, 07:08:24 PM
Version 2.1.9 - 05.27.2018
- Replaced the 64 bit SketchUp check in the installation module to fix an incompatibility issue with SketchUp 2014.
- Fixed a bug in the top level assembly method of the roof truss module.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 19, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
Version 2.2.0 - 06.19.2018
- Sub-groups within roof and floor truss assemblies can be made persistent by naming these groups or component instances to (custom1, custom2, custom3, etc...), also all other user defined geometry (ie. faces, text, lines and dimensions) are also retained when the assemblies are regenerated by the plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 14, 2018, 07:54:42 PM
I don't have a half hip (rafter roof) setup yet however there is probably a workaround by combining a gable with a hip and then using the trim tool to manually trim some of the rafters, however I haven't really tried this at least not for a real design.

I took about 10-15 minutes and tried creating a half hip with a gable and hip roof as primitives.  Using the trim tool made it fairly easy to clean up the rafters, see results here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/53ecdc04-98bc-4d73-a9b2-e27e3a24d409/Half-Hip-Test-Roof

Since the end result is not parametric you will want to be sure that you have all of your rafter depths, overhangs etc... set before you dive into the manual editing of such a roof.

This is obviously a painful and slow process.  Conclusion, I need to add in a half hip rafter roof.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 25, 2018, 07:04:58 AM
Version 2.2.0b - 09.25.2018
- Fixed a bug so that structural outlookers can be enabled without utilizing a gable end truss.

Technically this should not be allowed since structural outlookers typically require a dropped top chord and currently the only way to achieve a dropped top chord is with a gable end truss (option enabled).

However, since I am not strictly disallowing it I provided some logic so that the appropriate parameters are set so that this particular state is possible.  Previously, the gable end truss routine set some required parameters that the structural outlookers were dependent on.  Now the outlooker algorithm will set those parameters if they are not previously set by the gable end truss algorithm.

This is a fairly minor fix/patch.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 05, 2018, 12:50:49 PM
Version 2.2.1 - 10.05.2018
- The trim tool now allows for multiple trim operations once a trimming plane is selected.
- Pressing the ESC key will reinitialize the trim tool during multiple trim operations, space bar will terminate.
- The trim tool will now trim components as well as groups.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 16, 2018, 08:51:16 PM
Version 2.2.2b - 10.16.2018
- Updated the "Edit Truss Assembly" menu so that it properly loads default values when advanced options are expanded.
- Added a user definable name to truss assemblies that will be utilized in the future options and upgrades.

A number of other "under the hood" updates (to numerous to list) were also incorporated to bring the code more in line with the wall plugin and its more efficient and modular organization scheme.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 25, 2018, 11:01:49 PM
Version 2.2.3 - 10.26.2018
- Added a Custom Material Library/Manager in the Materials tab of the Global Settings.
- Enabled custom materials for wall sheathing, wall cladding, roof sheathing and roof cladding in the HTML wall draw and edit menus for common trusses.
- Enabled the ability group materials and control which drop down menu they will appear in.
- Added an SKM file import utility to the Material Library.
- Default wall sheathing and wall cladding materials brought in line with options available in wall plugin.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su360_800.jpg&hash=c8a6ecc5a740ab8b983dfda821d7e03b)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su359_800.jpg&hash=186bf35baf3cf284c46c71aa968934fd)

Note the various wall sheathing options that are brought over from the wall plugin (ie. Tyvek, Zip Systems, Plywood, Densglass etc..)

Also note that the custom and expanded materials selection is only available for common truss shapes (ie. common trusses, scissor trusses etc...).  I have not yet implemented the new system for other truss shapes and rafter roofs, that is work for yet another day.

There is still a tremendous amount of work that needs to be done with this plugin.  Many of the specialty truss shapes do not even have advanced options available to them yet.  All I can do is keep hacking away at it and maybe one day I will have the resources to really push this thing along.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 02, 2018, 06:33:44 PM
Version 2.2.4 - 11.02.2018
- Enabled wall sheathing, wall cladding, ceiling gypsum and roof cladding for monopitch trusses.
- Enabled gutters and downspouts for monopitch trusses.
- Enabled the "Edit Truss Assembly" function for all monopitch trusses (imperial and metric units).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su364_800.jpg&hash=a8c7c1672e36d1f929a9d12dc7d42b27)

I still need to add a few more advanced options to the monopitch truss type:

- Roof Returns
- Battens
- Soffit Cut
- Heel Blocking

I'm also thinking about adding an insulation option for the ceiling for trusses and rafter roofs so that the truss plugin is up to speed with the wall plugin.  Some additional feedback in this regard would be helpful.

With monopitch trusses there is also the issue where the exterior wall corner is created by the truss and hence I need to apply some corner trim on these corners.  I will give this some more thought.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 08, 2018, 08:03:55 AM
Version 2.2.4b - 11.08.2018
- Licensee name now appears in the License tab of the Global Settings when plugin is registered.
- Removed all advertising banners from the global settings.

Even though this may appear to be a minor revision it is actually a critical fix/upgrade for users running on Mac and Windows 10.

The advertising banners would only load intermittently and hence would cause the HTML menus to not render (blank white browser window).  After giving this some more thought and deciding that the advertising revenue generated by the plugin was not a significant amount, and a less cluttered look is always more appealing, it just made more sense to remove all of it completely.

I've also updated the license tab to be up to date with the Wall plugin's license tab.

This same issue with the advertising banners in the global settings also plagues the Wall plugin.  I will be issuing a new revision for it in short order, that strips the advertising from the plugin.  I appreciate everyone's patience in this regard.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 03, 2018, 03:50:36 PM
Tutorial 8 - Trim Function:

https://youtu.be/4Fj9MWNevMI

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/9cf8f6a5-6066-4d27-99e0-775608225e4c/Trim-Test
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 08, 2018, 06:03:11 PM
Version 2.2.5 - 12.08.2018
- Added Trim 2 icon to the Medeek Tools toolbar.
- Added the trim 2 function for (solid) groups and components. This trim function allows the user to select two trimming planes.

This additional trim function will be helpful in trimming more complicated geometry like hip rafters and triangular pieces of roof sheathing or cladding.

Similar to the regular trim function this tool can also be utilized on any non-plugin geometry so long as it is a (solid) group or component.

View video here:

https://youtu.be/PFzD1xFiCa0
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 10, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
Version 2.2.5b - 12.10.2018
- Added the Extend function for (solid) groups and components. This function allows the user to extend a member to a single plane/face.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su366_800.jpg&hash=cd7aebe20e564d826f21a303f847d29a)

The tool also has the ability to handle fairly complex, prismatic beams etc...

A huge shout out to ThomThom and John (John_DrivenuptheWall) from the SketchUp forums for helping me sort some of the issues out with the algorithm and code.

Tutorial 10:

https://youtu.be/UE3SFPppWmY
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 13, 2018, 04:52:47 PM
Version 2.2.5c - 12.13.2018
- Added the Trim 3 icon to the Medeek Tools toolbar.
- Added the Trim 3 function for (solid) groups and components. This trim function allows the user to select three trimming planes.
- Enabled the ability to invert your selection within the Trim 2 and Trim 3 tools using the "CTRL" key in Windows.

Tutorial 11:

https://youtu.be/dA3M5xfDRt8

Note that the planes in either advanced trim tool do not need to be orthogonal.

When using the Trim 3 tool the suggested order of selecting the cutting planes/faces is:

Vertical - Vertical - Horizontal

On an outside corner like that I'm not entirely sure how a skilled roof framer would cut that birdsmouth, but at least with the Trim 3 tool you have the option to cut it so it fits tight to the wall as I've shown in the video.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 15, 2018, 01:51:40 PM
In order to round out the selection of tools available and also per suggestion from a respected colleague it would seem prudent that I also include a mitering tool in the grab bag that is the Medeek Tools.

This can take shape in a few forms however the most important configuration in my opinion would be a tool that can take two solids and miter both of their ends at a common plane, while retaining the solid status of the group or component and retaining all of their properties and meta-data.

This would involve selecting the faces to extend/trim on each solid and then selecting two (non-parallel) edges that intersect at a point, so four pick points in total.

I haven't searched very much yet to see if such a tool/plugin already exists and I don't really want to recreate the wheel on this one.  Please let me know if you are aware of such a tool, that can work for any (non-plugin specific) solids.

Would there be a need/demand for this proposed tool?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 16, 2018, 09:56:11 PM
Version 2.2.6 - 12.16.2018
- Added the Miter Cut icon to the Medeek Tools toolbar.
- Added the Miter Cut function for (solid) groups and components.
- Enabled temporary (construction) dimensions for trusses, roofs and floor assemblies.
- Added a section in the General tab of the global settings for configuring construction dimensions.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su367_800.jpg&hash=803852e0851da089e15b091721368329)

Tutorial 12 - Miter Cut:

https://youtu.be/0EUhEKX64co
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 17, 2018, 07:01:43 AM
I'm a little burned out right now with the addition of all these extra tools to the Medeek Tools toolbar, but I still feel like I need to add one final addition to the mix.

This one will be called the split tool and similar to the trim tool the user will select a single face (or three points, toggle with the control key?) to define a plane which will then be used to cut a solid group or component in two.

The slightly tricky part with this is to make sure that the copied group/component is nested in the same overall group(s) as the original and retains all of its properties.

This tool would be useful where you've used the followme tool to create some geometry but want to break the resulting solid into separate segments (groups).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 18, 2018, 06:47:46 AM
Version 2.2.6b - 12.18.2018
- Added the Split icon to the Medeek Tools toolbar.
- Added the Split function for (solid) groups and components: split plane via one face or three points.

When you first click on the tool it defaults to the user selecting a face for the cutting plane however if you hit the "CTRL" key in Windows it will toggle to the three point mode.

https://youtu.be/eIerx294HE0
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 18, 2018, 07:04:52 PM
Version 2.2.6c - 12.18.2018
- Addressed a bug in the Split function regarding nested groups and components.

This is a critical fix for this tool.  I strongly suggest that everyone upgrade from 2.2.6b to 2.2.6c.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 19, 2018, 02:10:20 AM
There has been some call for a tool that is similar to the split tool but rather than selecting just one face you would select two faces and a section could be removed from the solid object (imagine two infinite planes cutting a slice out of your solid object).  I'm not exactly sure what to call this possible tool (section cut?).

The other question is whether to have the tool break the solid into two separate groups or components like the split tool or just leave the resulting geometry as one group/component?   I suppose I could always enable an option that would allow the user to toggle between these to behaviors offering some flexibility to the user.

Similar to the split tool I could allow the user to define the cutting planes but either selecting two faces or selecting six points, or a combination of three points and a face or a face and three points.  Lots of permutations here... just makes the code a little more fun.

With regards to the cutting planes, they could be parallel or they might not be, it doesn't really matter.  Just as I am doing in the split tool I will need to include logic that checks to see that the cutting planes actually do intersect the solids otherwise no action will be performed.  The two cutting planes cannot be perpendicular to each otherwise a valid solution cannot be obtained, or at least that is what I initially thought.  I will need to give that possible solution some more thought.  If a solution can be obtained there is no reason to discard it.  There may be some overlap with the Trim 2 function, but that tool does not have the ability to separate the solid into different groups.

Any thoughts or suggestions with regard to this potential addition to the tools?

Also just a reminder that even though I am including these tools within the Truss plugin they are designed to work with any solid geometry created in SketchUp, it doesn't need to be plugin related geometry.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on December 20, 2018, 04:09:22 PM
Excise tool?

I'm not thinking Sketchup-specific here, but it seems that there could be solutions that are valid even though you have two perpendicular planes.  A simple example would be an elongated body rotated 45 degrees.  You could cut the body with two planes that are perpendicular to each other but both parallel to the axis of rotation.  It at least seems like a valid solution based on my undeerstanding of the problem.

I really need to upgrade my plugin!  :)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 23, 2018, 01:37:15 AM
I've been thinking about labels for truss and rafter roofs and I would like to add in some sort of labeling system like the Wall plugin.

With a typical gable roof I will have a label on each side of the roof aligned with the roof plane but offset vertically so it does not Z fight with the sheathing or cladding (shingles).  The label will be similar to the Wall plugin where the user can customize the prefix (eg Roof1, Truss1, Rafter1 etc...)

Each side will be designated a letter, so Roof1-A and Roof1-B.  Hip roofs will have four roof planes so A, B, C and D.

If the framing callout is enabled then beneath the label will show the area for that roof plane (sheathing):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Fwall_su322_800.jpg&hash=993d36d0d77a6679ea6b70c1e0662dc7)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 27, 2018, 06:13:26 PM
Version 2.2.7 - 12.27.2018
- Roof and Floor labels option added to the General tab of the Global Settings.
- Roof and Floor label prefixes can be customized in the General tab of the Global Settings.
- Roof labels enabled for common trusses.
- When framing callouts are enabled the area of each roof plane will be shown below the roof label (currently only common truss assemblies have this feature available).
- Added a customizable color for roof and floor labels within the Material tab of the Global Settings.
- Added additional layers for dimensions, annotations, 2d geometry, building code and engineering.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 29, 2018, 05:48:10 PM
Version 2.2.7b - 12.29.2018
- Enabled roof labels and framing callouts for monopitch truss assemblies.
- Added stats (roof sheathing) for common and monopitch truss roofs which can be analyzed within the Medeek Estimator (Wall Extension) module.

In order to use this new feature you must also have the Wall plugin installed and upgraded to Version 0.9.9v, See Wall plugin thread for further details.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 30, 2018, 03:11:01 AM
Version 2.2.7c - 12.30.2018
- Enabled roof labels and framing callouts for all rafter roof assemblies: Gable, Hip, Dutch Gable, TJI, TJI w/ Glulam, Shed etc...

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su369_800.jpg&hash=24f64393fc5541732ebe5def48c76fcd)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su370_800.jpg&hash=e228f96bb28ab7b59e5177976bc088cf)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su371_800.jpg&hash=032eed093d82c09db911d76778deea95)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su372_800.jpg&hash=338f6eb41b2abae428df2d540ff368a4)

I've also been thinking about how to best handle holes or cutouts in the roof sheathing and cladding that are not only parametric but can be properly reported by the estimator (ie. net area vs. gross area).  I think I have a system worked out, I just need to implement the prototype and test it out.

The cut out or hole tool will have a few options.  One of the options will allow the user to specify whether to cut the cladding, sheathing or framing or all of them.  If the framing is cut then another option for framing in the opening.

I may also provide another option to provide a skylight to cover an opening or other construction elements (eg. vents, whirlybirds etc...)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 03, 2019, 05:54:15 PM
Another basic piece of information of any roof is the pitch or angle in degrees for the metric side of the house.  I'm updating the framing callout for roofs to also include this information:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su373_800.jpg&hash=b14faa1093cb7261e2c0c51afbe560c2)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su374_800.jpg&hash=0eb5c592b510ba2a0bd4b39dea514236)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 04, 2019, 12:40:23 AM
Version 2.2.7d - 01.04.2019
- All roof framing callouts now include the roof pitch or angle in degrees (metric templates).
- Added additional stats: (ridge cap, drip edge) for common and (drip edge) for monopitch truss roofs which can be analyzed within the Medeek Estimator (Wall Extension) module.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su375_800.jpg&hash=65e84bbda9fee9d4bfb855f3def88c42)

The new stats will become available with the next release of the Wall plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 06, 2019, 05:46:30 AM
Version 2.2.8 - 01.06.2019
- License expiration date now appears in the License tab of the Global Settings when plugin is registered.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 18, 2019, 05:55:45 AM
Version 2.2.8b - 01.18.2019
- Fixed a bug in the license and registration module.

I've noticed an issue with some licenses created in 2016.  If you purchased a license before Jan. 2017 and the plugin is still showing as "TRIAL" version, even when the serial number is input properly into the License tab of the global settings, please contact me and I will re-issue you a corrected serial number as well as upgrade your expiration date by six months for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 01, 2019, 09:52:18 AM
Version 2.3.0 - 03.01.2019
- Fixed one bug and a number of minor issues with monopitch trusses.
- Enabled sheathing and cladding at the heel of raised heel common and monopitch trusses.
- Added metal plates for raised heel monopitch trusses: wedge, slider, vertical w/ strut.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su377_800.jpg&hash=07b4ff9c7a3ccdafae5512f0845aac11)

If you are using monopitch trusses at all then this is a critical upate.  Previously my algorithm for the bottom chord of the monopitch truss was not properly assigning the material and layer when the raised heel option was enabled for this truss type.

Strangely that issue has been in existence since 2016 and no one seems to have noticed or at least notified me of it.  While working on the cladding of raised heel variants the issue jumped out at me and now it is finally resolved.

The thing about this plugin is that there are so many design permutations possible that it is almost impossible for me to investigate every single one and check for these type of minor issues.  That is why I rely heavily upon user feedback to help put out some of these fires.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 15, 2019, 09:02:50 AM
Version 2.3.1 - 03.15.2019
- Fixed a bug with the wall cladding material parameter in the global settings.
- Updated toolbar icons to be compatible with 4k (UHD) resolution monitors.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Kevin71246 on March 25, 2019, 03:32:51 PM
Hi Medeek,

Very cool app!  I'm trying out the web version, and it works well for the standard Fink & Howe trusses.  I am however interested in a scissor truss.  I noticed this isn't available in the web version and only in the extension version for Sketchup.  I did't have Sketchup, so I tried the free version (which is only web based), but that doesnt allow extensions (like your app)!!

So, is there any way to do a scissor truss with your online version (even if I paid for a license), or any other way to access the scissor truss feature?

Thanks!!
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on March 26, 2019, 06:44:46 AM
The online calculator is still very basic and can only really analyze one type of truss fully, that is the fink truss.

The plugin is primarily for generating the geometry and has many more truss types enabled.

I apologize for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 15, 2019, 03:09:45 PM
Version 2.3.2 - 04.15.2019
- Enabled the "Edit Truss Assembly" function for all scissor trusses (imperial and metric units).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 17, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Version 2.3.3 - 04.17.2019
- Enabled the "Edit Truss Assembly" function for attic trusses (imperial units only).
- Improved formatting of all HTML edit menus: Common, Monopitch, Scissor, Attic.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 22, 2019, 12:18:16 PM
When I originally enable hurricane (uplift) ties for the trusses I failed to check to see how things looked with a raised heel when the H2.5A (simpson) tie was used.

In this particular case the tie needs to be flipped around so that it is facing towards the interior rather than the exterior.  I've made the correction and added the logic into the code.  I will release the fix with the next version:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su379_800.jpg&hash=da57ceb44f2d08e690298317acab65ce)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 24, 2019, 12:45:26 PM
Version 2.3.4 - 04.24.2019
- Enabled the "Edit Roof Assembly" function for gable and hip rafter roofs (imperial and metric units).
- Corrected an issue with H2.5A hurricane ties when utilized with raised heel trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su380_800.jpg&hash=fcce59a46c6572c7ed31deb240420c6c)

This is a fairly substantial upgrade for the plugin and now gives the user the ability to edit stick framed roofs.  Previously only certain truss roofs could be edited.

I still need to enable editing for the other rafter roof types (shed roofs, I-Joist, rafter roofs with glulam beams etc...), but at least I've now got the two most common roof types with full parametrics enabled.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 24, 2019, 05:42:37 PM
This brings me back to some topics I was exploring last year at about this time regarding asymmetric rafter roofs.  I will set aside the hip roof for a minute and look at the simple gable roof in continuation of this discussion.

Each side of the roof may have a different pitch.  Additionally the top plate height may differ as well as the birdcut.  Things tend to get a little complicated when the symmetry is broken.

Basically one can boil it down to a symmetric or asymmetric gable roof.  The asymmetric variant will have the following additional parameters:

Roof Type:  Symmetric Gable, Asymmetric Gable
Pitch2 - Roof pitch of right side roof
Birdcut2 - Birdcut length of right side of roof
Delta Height - Difference in height between left and right bearing walls (left side is reference)

One could even go so far as to define a different rafter depth for the opposite side, as its length may be more or less than its opposite side:

Rafter Depth 2 - Rafter depth on right side of roof.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 25, 2019, 10:06:13 AM
With the asymmetric variant the secondary pitch and bearing height cause the location of roof peak to be off center.  In order to draw the roof one must first solve for the location of the roof peak (x direction).  The solution is given by:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fasymmetric_gable_pg2_800.jpg&hash=90e467a0bffdbfd7b515879ab00783e3)

I won't really know if the math is correct until I drop it into the ruby code and test it.

I will also need to check for null solutions, where certain combinations of pitches and delta h create impossible geometry.

I kind of miss the rigor of the math often required with the development of the truss plugin.  Asymmetric hip roofs are going to be even more math intensive.

I'm not exactly sure on what to do with the ridge board.  I can either bevel it or drop it to the same height as the lower side rafters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on April 28, 2019, 05:12:17 PM
Version 2.3.5 - 04.28.2019
- Fixed the show_modal bug for macOS in the Materials tab of the global settings.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 01, 2019, 03:17:26 PM
Version 2.3.6 - 05.01.2019
- Enabled asymmetric gable rafter roofs (imperial and metric units).

Tutorial 14:  Asymmetric Gable Roofs

https://youtu.be/0G06U44efYQ

Sometimes you just never know until you dig into it.  This latest update required a virtual rewrite of the entire rafter roof module.  Asymmetric roofs literally change everything up.  I'm glad to get this one wrapped up and behind me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 01, 2019, 06:05:39 PM
The asymmetric roof addition beat me up pretty hard for about three days, but in the end I won out.  Now I need to look at the hip roof and how best to deal with multi pitches...

With the hip roof we are now talking about four different possible top plate heights with four different possible pitches, birdsmouth cuts, and rafter depths.

If one is to assume that the fascia boards all line up (gutters), then the top plates heights are actually driven by the roof overhang and the pitch of each roof plane.  Only one roof plane (Plane A) will actually have its plate height set (the zero or base height of the roof), the other roof planes' top plate heights will be automatically calculated.

I suppose there is always the possibility where the fascia don't line up but I think this is more the exception than the rule, correct me if I am wrong.

As I've given this some more thought it occurred to me that typically the designer will set the roof pitches from the outset.  Then, in order to get the fascia to line up, he/she can either adjust the overhang or the top plate height (assume that the birdsmouth cut is set to some value).  So depending on the situation the user may want the plugin to calculate either the overhang (same top plate height) or the top plate height (same overhang). I will need to give this some more thought.

If the user keys in a numeric value for the overhang (roof planes B, C or D) then the edit menu can automatically set the delta height (top plate heights) for each respective roof plane to "AUTO".  Likewise if a value is keyed in for the delta height the HTML form can set the respective overhang(s) to "AUTO".
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 04, 2019, 11:10:11 PM
I've got the asymmetric options added to the edit menu and the common rafters and fascia are calculating correctly:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su382_800.jpg&hash=32afd29b90a162eab329187fea40e119)

Note that all for pitches are different values, however the fascia lines up all the way around the roof as it should (in this case I have the overhangs auto calculating).

Next I will work on the hip rafters and jack rafters.  As we can see in this example, all symmetry is broken, each hip rafter will be unique (x4) as well as each set of jack rafters (x8).  Luckily we can program this sort of thing, drawing this type of roof manually would be a real headache.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 05, 2019, 10:52:43 AM
First look at the sheathing and labels for an asymmetric hip roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su383_800.jpg&hash=3ca6dc839ddc64a502c8a17d440ab559)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su384_800.jpg&hash=d8db5bd5020ee505dac890f2d63708cd)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 05, 2019, 07:05:37 PM
Pitch and SQFT callouts/labels are now working:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su385_800.jpg&hash=bcc2278b756830f66acdb4ee39cb6c78)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 07, 2019, 06:12:09 PM
Hip and Ridge Cap is now working for the Asymmetric Hip Rafter Roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su386_800.jpg&hash=3de2d195d19fa6b4c8e7d7b18247be05)

This chunk of code is just for the ridge cap geometry:

Code: [Select]
@Phi1_3 = atan(sin(@Phiplane13) * tan(@Phi) * cos(@Phihip13))@Phi3_1 = atan(cos(@Phiplane13) * tan(@Phi3) * cos(@Phihip13)) @Phialpha1_3 = acos(cos(@Phihip13) * sin(@Phiplane13))@Phialpha3_1 = acos(cos(@Phihip13) * cos(@Phiplane13))@Psi1_3 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi)*cos(@Phi3)))@Phi2_3 = atan(sin(@Phiplane23) * tan(@Phi2) * cos(@Phihip23))@Phi3_2 = atan(cos(@Phiplane23) * tan(@Phi3) * cos(@Phihip23)) @Phialpha2_3 = acos(cos(@Phihip23) * sin(@Phiplane23))@Phialpha3_2 = acos(cos(@Phihip23) * cos(@Phiplane23))@Psi2_3 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi2)*cos(@Phi3))) @Phi1_4 = atan(sin(@Phiplane14) * tan(@Phi) * cos(@Phihip14))@Phi4_1 = atan(cos(@Phiplane14) * tan(@Phi4) * cos(@Phihip14)) @Phialpha1_4 = acos(cos(@Phihip14) * sin(@Phiplane14))@Phialpha4_1 = acos(cos(@Phihip14) * cos(@Phiplane14))@Psi1_4 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi)*cos(@Phi4)))@Phi2_4 = atan(sin(@Phiplane24) * tan(@Phi2) * cos(@Phihip24))@Phi4_2 = atan(cos(@Phiplane24) * tan(@Phi4) * cos(@Phihip24)) @Phialpha2_4 = acos(cos(@Phihip24) * sin(@Phiplane24))@Phialpha4_2 = acos(cos(@Phihip24) * cos(@Phiplane24))@Psi2_4 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi2)*cos(@Phi4))) @Ridgex = (cos(@Phi)*@HRthk*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5)) - sin(@Phi) * @HRthk@Ridgey = (sin(@Phi)*@HRthk*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5)) + cos(@Phi) * @HRthkif @Sheathing_option == "YES"if @Roofbatten == "YES"if @Cboption == "YES"thtot = @Cbheight + @Battenheight + @Sheathing_thickness + @Roofcladding_thicknesselsethtot = @Battenheight + @Sheathing_thickness + @Roofcladding_thicknessendelsethtot = @Sheathing_thickness + @Roofcladding_thicknessendelseif @Roofbatten == "YES"if @Cboption == "YES"thtot = @Cbheight + @Battenheight + @Roofcladding_thicknesselsethtot = @Battenheight + @Roofcladding_thicknessendelsethtot =  @Roofcladding_thicknessendend# Extension at Peak@Wa3 = PI - (@Phialpha3_1 + @Phialpha3_2)@Beta23 = atan(sin(@Wa3)/(tan(@Psi1_3)/(tan(@Psi2_3)) + cos(@Wa3)))@Beta13 = @Wa3 - @Beta23ext13 = (thtot * tan(@Psi1_3))/(tan(@Beta13))ext23 = (thtot * tan(@Psi2_3))/(tan(@Beta23)) @Wa4 = PI - (@Phialpha4_1 + @Phialpha4_2)@Beta24 = atan(sin(@Wa4)/(tan(@Psi1_4)/(tan(@Psi2_4)) + cos(@Wa4)))@Beta14 = @Wa4 - @Beta24ext14 = (thtot * tan(@Psi1_4))/(tan(@Beta14))ext24 = (thtot * tan(@Psi2_4))/(tan(@Beta24))# Ridge Length and Extensionsridgedx = (cos(@Phi)*thtot*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5))ridgedy = (sin(@Phi)*thtot*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5))length_sq = thtot**2 + ridgedx**2 + ridgedy**2 rext3 = sqrt(ext13**2 + (thtot/(cos(@Psi1_3)))**2 - length_sq)rext4 = sqrt(ext14**2 + (thtot/(cos(@Psi1_4)))**2 - length_sq)phicheck3 = atan(ext13*cos(@Psi1_3)/thtot) + PI - @Phihip13phicheck4 = atan(ext14*cos(@Psi1_4)/thtot) + PI - @Phihip14 if phicheck3 > PI rext3 = -1.0 * rext3end if phicheck4 > PI rext4 = -1.0 * rext4end @Ridgecaplength = @Arraylength - @Hipf - @Hipb + rext3 + rext4`
Two months from now I’m not going to have any idea what all of this means, its a good thing I keep a binder of all my notes and diagrams.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 07, 2019, 09:17:36 PM
Gutters and Downspouts are now functional for the Asymmetric Hip Rafter Roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su387_800.jpg&hash=391e00c355627d44f6d8b132e59e98c7)

Even with the different overhangs and top plate heights the gutter height (fascia) is the same height all the way around.  However the downspouts on opposite sides of the roof are customized per the overhang on each respective side.

Tomorrow I will jump back into the hip and jack rafters and see if we can wrap this one up.

The good news is that the required code for the asymmetric hip and jacks already exists.  I will be borrowing from the roof return module where I handled dissimilar pitches.  The bad news is that after a cursory review of this block of code I have absolutely no idea how it actually works anymore (I haven't looked at it in about 2 years).  It's just a matter of reverse engineering my own code for about an hour and it will all come back to me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 10, 2019, 08:46:29 AM
I'm actually still working on the hip rafters.  The complexity of a multi-pitch roof took another unexpected turn with the realization that when roof planes A and B are different pitches it causes an offset in the rafters at the peak which requires some additional logic to account for this fact with the placement of the hip rafters and their geometry.

I'm also still a bit conflicted on how to best handle the birdsmouth cut of the hip rafters when they walls have different top plate heights.  In some cases the hip rafter misses the corner entirely and is askew on one of the walls, this is the simple case.  In other cases the hip rafter technically rests at the "corner" but since there are two different wall heights possible it is not clear how the birdsmouth cut should be constructed exactly.  I'm assuming that the higher plate height will govern.

Does anyone have any photos or details of actual construction where a hip rafter bisects a corner where the top plate heights vary?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 10, 2019, 08:49:55 PM
When the hip roof is asymmetric across the ridge you end up with a situation like what is shown below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su388_800.jpg&hash=66be1b68d2ed65e06b95f901a9760176)

The common rafter in the upper right is a 7:12 pitch and the common rafter in the lower left is a 10:12 pitch.  Normally with a symmetric hip or gable roof the common rafters would be flush with the top of the ridge board.

However in the asymmetric case the steeper pitched side is flush and the lesser pitched side overshoots the ridge board just slightly as shown.  This additional asymmetry causes further complications in the calculations of the hip rafter that is adjacent to the overshooting common.

Also note that the seams in the sheathing (edges of the roof planes) do not center up on the ridge board or hip rafters.  This is not a flaw or an error it is just the way the asymmetric roof goes together.

It appears that I have the hips correctly calculating now (after nearly two days of intense debugging and about 10 sheets of engineering pad) however tomorrow I will continue with further testing, to see if I can break anything, and then begin attacking the jack rafters.

A further look at the bird mouth cut question in shown in the example below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su389_800.jpg&hash=848af1889973659598eaa328812aca79)

So in reality I am still missing the birds mouth cut for the hip rafters and the implementation of the soffit cut for trimming the tails of the hip rafters.  Always too much to do and never enough time to get it all done.

I'm really hoping that the jack rafter piece is a lot less trouble than the hip rafters, I would really like to get this roof type wrapped up by the end of the weekend.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 11, 2019, 10:22:27 AM
Actually I stand corrected.  The sheathing does center up on the ridge board provided that you do vertically offset the opposing common rafters as shown in the previous images.  A top down view shows the result:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su390_800.jpg&hash=de2b4bcf96fdceb1234f1cd40b96be5a)

If you don't vertically offset the commons and the pitch on plane A and B differ then the ridge board will not center up on the sheathing.  For now I have it centering and a vertical offset, for future work I may provide an option to toggle between these two possible configurations.

Here is a view of the other side of the roof, note the different top plate heights and where the hip rafters land on them and the corners:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su391_800.jpg&hash=275d1eb029712319a1e9f9a3049317f2)

Better yet, go ahead and download my test model that was most recently generated by the new asymmetric module:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/5cac625a-b13a-41f0-b945-9603cbf47bc0/Asymmetric-Hip-Test-Roof
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 12, 2019, 03:37:42 PM
First look at the jack rafters:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su392_800.jpg&hash=a70a0806d6a234ca0d2696315253c682)

Next I will look at the birds mouth cut of the hip rafters and the soffit cut for both hip and jack rafters, then a bit more testing to see if anything can be broken when the degenerate case (symmetric roof) is calculated.

These is also the case where you might end up with a negative overhang (which doesn't make sense).  I should probably include some logic to try and detect this condition and alert the user that the roof configuration is not physically possible.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 12, 2019, 09:37:51 PM
The birds mouth cut algorithm (and code) is now functional however I can't say I'm completely satisfied with it yet.

For example take a look at this scenario:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su393_800.jpg&hash=3dbbdb3b22cccd60f96289db19e51827)

You have a 8:12 and 7:12 meeting almost at the corner of the building (skew is minimal) however the plate height is 2" higher on the 7:12 side and my algorithm cuts the birds mouth per the highest plate height at the corner.

In this particular case it would seem to make more sense to cut the birds mouth at the lower plate height otherwise not enough meat is left in the hip rafter.  This algorithm may need further refinement to really make it meaningful and useful to the designer.

The other option of course is to simply not cut the birds mouth in the hips rafters and leave it to the user to determine what or how they want to handle the intersection at this critical junction.

The soffit cut in the case of a hip roof is actually quite simple (surprisingly).  Since the fascia lines up all the way around the roof the soffit cut will also be the same height for all jacks, commons and hip rafters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 13, 2019, 07:28:22 AM
The soffit cut function is now active for hips, jacks and commons:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su394_800.jpg&hash=278116265fb2f6aa3c8ba1099431ea60)

Now I will see if I can break the module, I'm sure there is some state or configuration that I haven't considered that may throw some errors.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 13, 2019, 05:57:54 PM
Version 2.3.7 - 05.13.2019
- Enabled asymmetric hip rafter roofs (imperial and metric units).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su395_800.jpg&hash=f844670dd7f69669000ce81b86e3c038)

The most degenerate version of the asymmetric hip roof would be a pyramid roof.  The roof shown below is a pyramid roof that is actually an asymmetric roof, as you can see the algorithms degenerate gracefully as they should:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su396_800.jpg&hash=e9efe2813388eb676f855b6435e5ff84)

Items for future work include the ability to toggle the configuration where the sheathing centers up on the ridge board or not.

Another outstanding item is ceiling joists.  I'm not even sure what do with ceiling joists yet for an asymmetric hip as there could possibly be four different ceiling joist heights.

I would also like to switch everything to HTML menus.  The initial draw menu is still using the default SU GUI.  Due to its limitations you can only initially create symmetric hip roofs but then you can edit them to switch them to an asymmetric configuration.  I will explain this further in an upcoming tutorial video.  Once I switch to an HTML draw menu this limitation will be resolved.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 13, 2019, 06:25:51 PM

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/4fe79a4d-52c4-46dc-ab65-18c186a0e8dd/Asymmetric-Hip-Test-Roof-3
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 13, 2019, 10:18:18 PM
I've fixed a few small bugs with the jack rafters near the corners and re-released the plugin.

When the jack rafters approaches a corner and then the overhang portion of the roof the various permutations in the way the jack rafter is beveled or cut becomes quite interesting.  With a regular symmetric hip roof the possible configurations is more limited and predictable however the asymmetry lends itself to additional cases, so more conditionals are required in the code to account for them.

I've ran some additional checks to try and ferret out these additional configurations and then provide the appropriate logic to handle them, however there may still be a few that may have eluded my best efforts.  This module is new so there may still be a few fires yet.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 14, 2019, 01:25:20 PM
Tutorial 15 - Asymmetric Hip Roofs:

https://youtu.be/pzcolzABEbE

In this video I try to explain how each roof plane can be adjusted and the toggling between auto calculating the overhang or the top plate height.

Looking at hip roof again this afternoon it occurred to me that it probably would be useful to have the ability to specify the depth of each hip rafter individually and for a symmetric roof the ability to specify the hip rafter depth  independent of the common rafter depth.  Yet another item to add to this module's todo list.

I also need to update the estimating module for this roof type (symmetric and asymmetric), the quantity and length of each jack rafter would be useful information.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 14, 2019, 06:35:17 PM
Giving some thought to the secondary roof tool:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fsecondary_roof_800.jpg&hash=77b715ed3fc12bb2696f43878056e1c3)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 15, 2019, 01:40:24 PM
Trying to come up with an intuitive method for specifying a secondary roof.  My idea is for the user to select the wall corners (1) and (2) that the projecting (secondary) roof will be bearing on and then to select the roof plane of the primary roof that the secondary roof should intersect.  Essentially three points/picks will specify the secondary roof.

When a secondary is created it will store the primary roof name it is intersecting with as well as the roof plane.  Either of these can then be modified in the secondary roof menu in the case that the user wants to switch to a different primary roof or a different roof plane of a given primary roof.

When a secondary roof is edited or regenerated it will then re-analyze the entire geometry with the specified primary roof and roof plane in order to generate the secondary roof geometry.  This will allow the user maximum flexibility (ie. moving primary and secondary relative to each other {x, y, or in z} as well as changing the primary).

Orthogonal intersections are nice but we can't count on them so from the get go the secondary tool will be designed with any arbitrary intersection angle in mind as well as intersections with a roof planes or gable ends of a gable roof (wall).

Additionally, the secondary roof may be symmetric or asymmetric so it makes sense to also allow for this possibility as well.

One could even go so far as to allow for intersection with more exotic primary roofs (eg. gambrel, arched, polynesian etc...) however at this point I think I will limit myself to just a single pitched roof plane or wall plane.

There will be a separate tool for secondary hips and one for secondary gables, the reason being the vast number of different parameters required for each type of roof and the different algorithms required as far as calculating the actual roof rafter geometry.

At this point I am mostly conceptualizing and trying to see if there are any major holes or flaws in this system or method of secondary roofs.  I would be interested to hear your feedback on the matter and especially if you can see any major problems with my methodology, or have suggestions for something that may work even better.

As can be seen on my previous notes page (May 14), there are a few special cases that will also need to be dealt with:

1.) Secondary roof is non-orthogonal to the primary roof and its ridge coincides or meets a primary hip.  In this case the secondary really should intersect the two planes on each side of the primary's hip.

2.) A hip roof secondary meets a gable wall such that the aspect ratio of the secondary precludes it from having a ridge board perpendicular to the gable wall.  There is also potentially the non-orthogonal possibility but this would not be very common.

3.) Typical L-shaped hip roof where the valley and hip theoretically merge into a common roof.

If I can somehow pull this one off, it will be a bit of a game changer for the Truss plugin since it will then allow for much more complicated rafter roofs.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 16, 2019, 11:22:03 AM
Before I fully dive into the secondary roof module I thought it might be interesting to return to the soffit and fascia discussion I was having back in 2017.  It would be nice to have soffit and fascia added to the hip rafter roof modules.

However as I am reviewing my notes and previous posts I came upon one unresolved question.

Should the roof sheathing extend out over the fascia board or should it terminate at the sub-fascia as shown in this detail:

The reason this becomes an issue is that the calculations of an asymmetric hip roof factor in the width of the sub-fascia in order to line them up around the roof.  If the sheathing extends pasts the sub-fascia to the fascia then the gutter line will drop a different amount for each roof plane depending on the pitch.  However if the sheathing only extends to the extent of the sub-fascia then the calculations for the roof do not need to take into account fascia width.

I can have it work either way but I would like to focus on the most common configuration.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 16, 2019, 06:49:18 PM
Version 2.3.8 - 05.16.2019
- Fixed a bug with the pitch and area callouts for asymmetric gable rafter roofs.
- Fixed a bug with the back/rear outlooker length for gable rafter roofs which now allows for a building or roof length that is a non-integer multiple of the rafter spacing.
- Added the option in the gable rafter roof edit menu to specify a separate front and back overhang length.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su397_800.jpg&hash=2b77e7b28dd7fa6dd150b540e3c674f0)

The issue with the rear outlooker length will also need to be addressed for truss assemblies.

I should also make the option for the separate front and back overhang length available for trusses as well.  Lots of little things as well as big things to do.

The consensus seems to be that the sheathing should terminate at the sub-fascia and not extend over the fascia, especially if the rafter tail is a plumb cut (fascia is vertical).  However, this preference also seems to be highly dependent on the particular application and type of fascia used.

Here is another interesting detail:

(https://cdnassets.hw.net/b3/45/c1dd531e41f48dfb62b6ff7be58b/0917jlcwildfire-illo-01-rev.jpg)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 17, 2019, 09:16:17 AM
A few other things to note with regards to fascia and soffit:

1.)  In order to enable soffit and fascia the advanced options must be turned on and the sub-fascia option must also be turned on.

2.)  The consensus appears to put the fascia top flush with the sub-fascia top with the sheathing terminating at the outside edge of the sub-fascia.

3.)  Gutter placement will then be unaffected by the fascia other than be offset by its thickness.

4.)  The soffit will be placed level to the horizontal and extend to the outside edge of the sub-fascia meeting the fascia and to the wall sheathing.  Since the plugin is not keeping track of what walls are being used (Medeek, Framer, or a simple solid), there will be a wall sheathing offset parameter that will allow the user to control this offset.  I've noticed some details showing the soffit extending to the framing, others to the sheathing and still others to a brick or stucco layer.

5.)  The soffit top surface will abut the underside of the sub-fascia.

6.)  Materials for soffit and fascia will both be user driven/customizable.

7.) Parameters to include:  Soffit thickness, Fascia thickness, Fascia depth.

8.)  I will also be adding in an additional parameter for the roof cladding which allows the user to extend it beyond the sheathing a specified amount (Roof Cladding Extension).  This will naturally extend the ridge or hip caps the appropriate amounts as well.

I realize there are other soffit variations but I will be starting with the flat soffit first and then consider the angled soffit in future developments.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 17, 2019, 05:49:55 PM
Version 2.3.9 - 05.17.2019
- Enabled a roof cladding extension parameter for all hip rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su398_800.jpg&hash=8426664f82159c91ffbc0db3991902ff)

The extension is measured inline with the roof plane (not with the horizontal).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 18, 2019, 10:04:10 PM
First look at the soffit and fascia (hip roof):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su399_800.jpg&hash=f213be8303620ac291b2872f02f395f8)

Also note the roof cladding extension (3/4") with a 6:12 pitch.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 19, 2019, 11:26:20 AM
Version 2.4.0 - 05.19.2019
- Enabled soffit and fascia for all hip rafter roofs.
- Fixed a minor bug with the ridge cap extension for asymmetric hip roofs.
- Enabled custom materials for roof sheathing and roof cladding in the HTML edit menu for all hip rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su400_800.jpg&hash=de2a17d49d58e51af2b4868dce0a3708)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su401_800.jpg&hash=a5ded1846f70ca73894598bc278779e8)

Custom materials is also enabled for both the soffit and the fascia.  Soffit and fascia can only be specified in the edit menu once the roof is created.  The current draw menu presents the user with far less parameters and will be updated to a more advanced HTML menu in the future.

Once I am satisfied with the soffit and fascia with the hip roofs I can then extend it to gable, shed and dutch gable roofs and all other truss roofs.

View example model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/14e0d0b0-80b5-4d3a-bf65-19b0e68eda76/Soffit-and-Fascia-Test1
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 22, 2019, 03:33:59 PM
After some further testing of the roof cladding extension parameter I think it makes more sense to make the extension per the horizontal and not per the roof plane.  The problems really only seem to arise when you have an asymmetric roof, in this case the higher pitched roof will project less than the lower pitched roof if the extension is parallel to the roof plane.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 22, 2019, 06:38:56 PM
The two most common drip edges I’ve seen applied to residential roofs are the right two profiles shown in this image:

It would be more light weight to represent these metals as simple edges and faces but then they would Z fight with whatever they are resting on so I guess it is probably better to assign a thickness and model them as a solid instead.

So the two options to start will be a L or a D drip edge (not sure why they call it a D). The dimensions will all be customizable like the roof gutters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 23, 2019, 08:25:43 AM
I've decided to put the drip edge on hold for just a bit and focus on the secondary roof module.

There is really two ways to handle this.  You can either start with a primary roof and then add secondary roofs that tie into it.  Or you can allow the user to pick the building outline (any polygon) and utilize a straight skeleton algorithm to compute the roof planes.  There are some pros and cons (limitations) to each method.

Obviously with the straight skeleton method one would assume that the fascia lines up all the way around the roof so it doesn't lend itself to secondary roofs like dormers that may be positioned up on the roof.

However, the straight skeleton allows for some really complicated scenarios that you just cannot achieve with a secondary roof methodology.

A few months ago I was trying to come up with a robust straight skeleton algorithm and somehow it defeated me.  This morning I took a slightly different approach and I now think I've finally solved it:

Step 1:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su406_800.jpg&hash=f00ff19c5586a511ffb0a717f2680749)

Step 2:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su403_800.jpg&hash=9b008aacb0dcca048a43ecce7f45701a)

Step 3:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su404_800.jpg&hash=8d9ff6360b8d710d3d2ceef074c6cd07)

Step 4:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su405_800.jpg&hash=784cf68f6a4ec7a91a15810e35503f12)

Once I have the roof "solid" I can then easily pull out the edges that represent the hips, ridges, valleys and flying hips.  From there it is just a matter of some tedious logic to detect whether to frame a common, hip jack, valley jack or cripple jack (hip/valley jack).

Of course the devil is in the details but I now think I have a path forward for complex roofs, this is major breakthrough.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 24, 2019, 01:45:08 PM
The complex roof algorithm seems to be fairly robust thus far, I haven't been able to break it just yet. However as I am contemplating how to make it so that each roof plane is adjustable (variable pitch) it is quickly becoming apparent that such a feature would become very complicated.

The issue really is a situation where you have a particular roof plane that you want to adjust.  You then change its pitch (assuming all other pitches are left the same) and the roof gets recalculated.  In certain situations that roof plane may then merge with another roof plane.  If that happens then one of the two roof planes is absorbed by the other (both pitches must be equal of course).

The difficulty seems to arise in the tracking of each roof plane and the custom pitch assigned to it.  The number of roof planes can be variable.  The ability to edit each roof plane will need to an "on the fly" sort of tool which allows the user to adjust only one roof plane at a time and then recalc the entire roof to re-determine the shape of the roof and hence how many and where its new roof planes actually are.

The easiest way to store this information, in my option. is to maintain the roof solid group (on a separate hidden layer).  From this solid the roof planes can quickly be ascertained as well as the outline or footprint of the roof.  I'm still thinking this one through as you can probably tell.

Initially the roof will be drawn with one overhang and one pitch.  Where the edit menu can take it from there is where it potentially becomes quite complicated.

Consider a complex roof like the one below:

I can see that the framing can be accomplished with some basic rules/logic however non-orthogonal roof outlines will probably require some additional logic.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 25, 2019, 09:31:35 PM
Version 2.4.1 - 05.25.2019
- Parameter hightlight (input) color added to General tab of global settings.
- Parameter change highlighting enabled for the gable and hip rafter roof edit menus.
- Added the indexing parameter for roofs and floors to the General tab of the global settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su407_800.jpg&hash=1c5b86d153e53687477c6087222a7dee)

A few minor items addressed per recent customer requests.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 26, 2019, 10:01:32 AM
Since the hip rafter roof now has soffit and fascia I thought it would be fitting to add the same treatment to the gable roof, however the gable roof is surprisingly more complicated when it comes to soffit and fascia.  Take the example shown below:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su408_800.jpg&hash=bc535d804e26ca461c5cbe51440c0b46)

A number of questions arise:

1.)  The sheathing terminates at the sub-fascia (at the eave, per previous discussion) however should it extend out to the gable fascia? or just terminate at the gable sub-fascia as shown?

2.)  The cladding may need a different treatment even for hip roofs and for gable roofs.  Rather than relying on the cladding extension parameter to bring it out over the fascia maybe bring the cladding out to the fascia by default and then the extension parameter brings it beyond the fascia if desired?  The cladding extension parameter should also really be per the horizontal rather than per the roof plane due to complications with asymmetric roofs.

3.)  A number of possible configurations can exist at the corner where the eave and gable soffit meet.  Ideas?  I don't even know what these variants are called, but I've seen them all.  Some architects really don't like the soffit boxes but even these are popular in many regions.

http://diydiva.net/2010/11/building-soffit-boxes-and-wood-soffit-installation/

4.)  Should the gable fascia terminate as shown or extend beyond the eave fascia (projection).  The projected gable fascia seems to be very popular in western Washington.

5.)  The gutters will naturally be offset if fascia is specified but should I extend the gutters to terminate flush to the gable fascia or leave them so they terminate flush to the gable sub-fascia?

These roofs are complicated business.  Lots of little details.  Even though I'm not an architect or designer I've still got to deal with them all since I'm creating a tool that involves all of these subtle design decisions.  Structural elements tend to be a bit simpler in my opinion.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 26, 2019, 10:02:59 AM
I really have no idea if this is the correct way to build a soffit box but here is one possibility:

A couple things jump out at me:

1.) Note the double miter cut of the gable fascia.

2.) Note the addition of the two pieces of fascia to create the soffit box.

3.) I've shown this soffit box with a 15" return (the minimum return) however one could extend the return further and the eave soffit would then morph into an L shaped configuration.  So if this type of soffit configuration is specified I should also provide the user with the ability to set the return length.

With gable roofs and their soffit and fascias it looks like I've open yet another can of worms.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 26, 2019, 10:42:39 AM
Here is a soffit box with an extended return (4"):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su410_800.jpg&hash=43b1b29b771a216e776e1ef3bdd947d9)

Note the L-shaped eave soffit.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 27, 2019, 09:05:51 PM
Version 2.4.2 - 05.27.2019
- Enabled soffit and fascia for gable rafter roofs.
- Enabled a roof cladding extension parameter for gable rafter roofs.
- Enabled custom materials for roof sheathing and roof cladding in the HTML edit menu for gable rafter roofs.
- Added the soffit box extension parameter for gable rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su412_800.jpg&hash=fea225694eacc2050bdd9559d2048756)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/37d083b2-1a35-4094-90c0-34d3524ac4f2/Soffit-and-Fascia-Gable-Rafter-Roof

Note the trimming of the ridgeboard if required.

Currently there is only one way to soffit and fascia the gable roof but if there is enough call for it I can also look at this type of configuration:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su411_800.jpg&hash=950f53547c7ba621a7c79884dbaa1115)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 28, 2019, 10:06:20 AM
The other configuration I've noticed being used quite a bit locally is the angled soffit:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su413_800.jpg&hash=e4050ce516c81b67405d864b7384690c)

Personally I think this type of soffit works better where the rafter tails are square cut and not plumb cut otherwise the sub-fascia will probably need to be adjusted (beveled) on its bottom to ensure that the soffit fits correctly.

The one thing to note with this arrangement is that the gable soffit and eave soffit should be coplanar.  In order for that to happen the depth of the rafter tails must equal the depth of the rake board (barge rafter).  One way to achieve this if the rafters are quite deep is to trim them as shown in the image.  An alternative approach is to match the barge rafter with the actual rafters but this will result in a very deep/thick fascia and a heavy look.

I'm just thinking out loud here so correct me if I'm seriously mistaken with any of my musings.  The angled soffit is certainly another option that I could add in but I need to make sure there is call for it and that I've got it right.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 28, 2019, 12:16:30 PM
Now that I have at least one option for soffit and fascia for a gable type roof it makes sense that I extend this functionality to the truss module.  However with common trusses I also have the option for various roof returns:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su414_800.jpg&hash=60bd6a0abe16830f2f5d9875998a3617)

I will need to add some additional logic into the soffit and fascia module so that it can properly handle these more classical roof returns.

If you look at this a little bit further it becomes apparent that you have the gable soffit dropping down into the roof plane of the return.  I'm not entirely sure how this would be framed out, but it sure would be helpful to watch a crew installing soffit on a gable overhang where it comes down and meets a hip roof return like the one shown.

The fascia and eave soffit with its extension seem pretty straight forward.

---

A quick mock up of a truss roof with hip returns and soffit and fascia:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su415_800.jpg&hash=11bcd400416f0a1b2d4aee8e3ac6b90f)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su416_800.jpg&hash=ec548e98f83a2c48f2cd7213560970b1)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su417_800.jpg&hash=7402747f30578ae1c10336cd119f05ca)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su418_800.jpg&hash=167f30a8218a0b3838699b9bde674779)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/421108b3-d0dc-4898-a096-0cf7d1999eb2/Hip-Roof-Return-with-Soffit-and-Fascia

I could get all fancy and try to trim the gable soffits so they intersect the hip returns perfectly but looking at it now it doesn't seem to terrible if I just terminate them as I have shown and the carpenter in the field will adjust to suit.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 30, 2019, 08:55:27 PM
First look at soffit and fascia applied to a common truss (fink) roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su419_800.jpg&hash=15ee83374beb44c9cb3eaeab9801d7e5)

If you look closely you can see the roof cladding is extending out over the gutter (0.75"), I'm adding the cladding extension parameter to the advanced options for trusses.

Even though this is working great now for the common truss I still need to add the logic in to handle the hip roof return and full return configurations.  I also have the configuration where the back side of the assembly is truncated to allow for abutting next to a wall.  This will require yet another soffit and fascia configuration.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on May 31, 2019, 10:33:39 PM
Due to the complications caused by roof returns I had to jump through a few more hoops to get the soffit and fascia (and roof cladding extension) fully functional for common trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su420_800.jpg&hash=9a9c0ec0d0feae9f85ea774e0b990928)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su421_800.jpg&hash=a0c02b4e168d3bfebf05230262c10d65)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su422_800.jpg&hash=56c7bd406220a034cf8e4b01336b2d3f)

Unfortunately, I still cannot release these latest upgrades to the public because in changing up the advanced options module I may have possibly broken other truss types.

Tomorrow I will need to do some thorough checking to make sure the other truss types:  attic, scissor, monopitch, cathedral etc... are working correctly and can now work with the soffit and fascia module.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 01, 2019, 02:43:54 PM
Quite a number of fixes to the attic truss module.  The floor sheathing option is also now exposed in the attic truss edit menu.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su423_800.jpg&hash=2fb0fbf1010b1b14397d85127cf0b9fe)

Full Return:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su424_800.jpg&hash=4dc56a565f12ddcced2dfda5ca44b325)

Roof labels and callouts also added to this truss type.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 02, 2019, 08:48:29 AM
Soffit and Fascia now available for Scissor and Cathedral trusses:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su425_800.jpg&hash=09e207095d3b452bbb939ca7ea40b13d)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su426_800.jpg&hash=f8ee5a2bfe50c9a6420bc9f47f31fbe7)

I've also taken the time to make the cathedral truss type parametric (edit menu).

I only need to look at the monopitch truss edit menu and address a few changes to it and then I will be ready to push all of these changes out to a new version.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 02, 2019, 09:51:25 PM
Version 2.4.3 - 06.02.2019
- Enabled soffit and fascia for the following truss types: common, attic, scissor, monopitch, cathedral.
- Enabled a roof cladding extension parameter for truss roofs.
- Enabled the "Edit Truss Assembly" function for all cathedral trusses (imperial and metric units).
- Added the floor sheathing option to the attic truss edit menu.
- Parameter change highlighting enabled for truss roof edit menus.
- Roof returns (full and hip) enabled for monopitch trusses.
- Addressed some minor bugs with the truss gutter module.
- Soffit and Fascia added to truss roofs with full or hip returns.
- Labels and callouts added to attic, scissor, and cathedral trusses.
- Added the soffit box extension parameter for truss roofs.

Monopitch variants:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su427_800.jpg&hash=54a7e47ac706f168e81ed18e9caccd6b)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su428_800.jpg&hash=f54db6c0bd24cbe40a1c73b8a96ba989)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su429_800.jpg&hash=2c4910c24d3ce520bc01633be29f72d3)

This was a fairly substantial upgrade with lots of changes.  I wrapped up quite a few hours of testing today but there will probably be something that gets away from me, there always is.

Now its time to go after the much larger fish... Complex and secondary roofs.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 03, 2019, 01:07:48 PM
*** The Medeek Truss extension will no longer officially support SketchUp 2015 and SketchUp 2016, only SketchUp 2017 and newer will be supported. ***

I have reluctantly made this decision based on the additional time and effort I am spending trying to put in place additional logic (band aids) within the code base to ensure that the plugin maintains compatibility with these older versions of SketchUp.  At some point it is simply no longer worth the effort.

If you are plugin user currently running one of these older versions of SketchUp, I would strongly suggest that you upgrade to ensure continued operation of the extension.  The current version of the extension will probably still work with either SketchUp version however moving forward there will be no guarantee of compatibility.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 05, 2019, 04:09:58 PM
Working on the edit menu for the shed rafter roof.  If the user enables soffit and fascia for this roof type I will need a small routine that checks the rafter depth and trims the upper rafter tails if the rafters are deeper than the barge rafter (rake board):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su431_800.jpg&hash=f834c7080d2d55c4b2980a6e0084d56e)

For the lower end rafter tails the soffit cut parameter takes care of this problem, however with an angled soffit I will need a similar routine for the lower rafter tails as previously discussed in a post a few days back.

Roof returns (rake, hip and full) have not been enabled for rafter roofs yet, that is something that will need to be setup for this module as the truss module already has this feature.

A number of other upgrades for this roof type as well:  Front and Back gable overhangs, Roof cladding extension.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 05, 2019, 06:47:10 PM
Version 2.4.4 - 06.05.2019
- Enabled soffit and fascia for shed rafter roofs.
- Enabled a roof cladding extension parameter for shed rafter roofs.
- Enabled the "Edit Roof Assembly" function for shed rafter roofs (imperial and metric units).
- Added the option in the shed rafter roof edit menu to specify a separate front and back overhang length.
- Shed roofs auto-trim upper rafter tails as required when soffit is specified.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su432_800.jpg&hash=59712150dac2fc91bdb1fa9cbc7c9cbd)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 06, 2019, 09:24:28 AM
Version 2.4.4b- 06.06.2019
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for shed rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su433_800.jpg&hash=bf457229278af9efcd203f0888b3e3c3)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su434_800.jpg&hash=956e7d7e62d84a5831bc80c3a7f6e171)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su435_800.jpg&hash=734e00c97710fa31f28cfca4ebc7b0c8)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 07, 2019, 03:12:43 PM
Version 2.4.5 - 06.07.2019
- Fixed a minor bug with the shed rafter roof module.
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for all gable rafter roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su436_800.jpg&hash=1353f826c054858a0ece232f0f2a66c6)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/7749498e-99c0-4914-abca-29516a324d4f/Angle-Soffit-with-Rafter-Roof
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 08, 2019, 12:24:28 PM
Version 2.4.6 - 06.08.2019
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for common, attic, scissor, and cathedral trusses.
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for monopitch trusses.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su438_800.jpg&hash=1eef82db23e506d77969025fcf489012)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su439_800.jpg&hash=e4fcb546cee1451e811446e0d1bf3c11)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su440_800.jpg&hash=2fbb8529b6047d276cfc3bf6f19de2a4)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su441_800.jpg&hash=164207a76bced2190a920b54d94b545b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 08, 2019, 02:39:00 PM
Version 2.4.6b - 06.08.2019
- Added the ability to import materials directly from the model within the Custom Material Libary/Manager in the global settings.

This update was per customer request.  The direct material import feature previously was added to the Wall plugin but was missing from the Truss plugin.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 09, 2019, 09:19:33 AM
This is the first new icon for the main Truss plugin toolbar in quite some time:

The complex roof icon/tool will allow the user to pick between either a truss or rafter complex roof (first HTML menu), then the user will select a horizontal (closed) face which will be used to determine the perimeter of the roof.  Before the user selects the outline face they can utilize the complex roof draw menu (HTML menu #2) to adjust settings (ie. overhang, pitch, sheathing, cladding etc...)

The draw menu will stay open and the tool active until closed or space bar is pressed.  So multiple complex roofs can be created one after another with the given settings.  Similar to the wall plugin I will probably implement a system of roof presets so the user can quickly jump to a specific configuration.

My latest code for menus in the Electrical plugin is my cleanest and most advanced code for dealing with interactive HTML menus.  I will be borrowing heavily from this plugin initially to setup my basic tool and menu systems.

I will also at some point allow the user to select the points that define the roof outline rather than selecting a face but for the time being I'm going to keep it simple and just allow the face selection method for now.

I am starting with the complex rafter roof first.  The truss variant will be even more troublesome and problematic so its best to cut my teeth on the rafter variant and see how far I can take it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 09, 2019, 04:05:45 PM
The first menu will use the following two images to select either a rafter or truss roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FCOMPLEX_ROOF_RAFTER_240.png&hash=46a9211404bdb381e4653b6c5f3ebd27)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FCOMPLEX_ROOF_TRUSS_240.png&hash=c5e5d275557291d58c9d1585d3eb0139)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 10, 2019, 05:17:17 PM
First look at the initial selection menu:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su442_800.jpg&hash=68ede77e717e6c01f4bfd0083518b73b)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 13, 2019, 07:00:41 AM
Version 2.4.7 - 06.13.2019
- Enabled a "No Framing" mode for gable, hip and shed rafter roofs. This feature is also available for asymmetric gable and hip roofs.
- Added the complex roof icon to the main toolbar.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su443_800.jpg&hash=2fdeb32f87e9b3997b71fede2d0a0824)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su444_800.jpg&hash=093f25ed39aefa51379e93d052e72cd5)

The "no framing" mode is per customer requests.  I'm really not sure how much utility this features offers but it certainly will keep your model more lightweight if you choose not to show all of the rafter framing.

I also added this parameter in preparation for the upcoming complex roof module.  With complex roofs the ability to eliminate all of the underlying framing will be a much bigger factor in my opinion.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 14, 2019, 10:06:56 AM
Version 2.4.7b - 06.14.2019
- Addressed a number of critical bug fixes for metric templates.

If you are working with metric units this update will address a number of issues that were not resolved when the edit function was added to various trusses and rafter roofs.  This is an essential upgrade.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 16, 2019, 01:47:58 PM
Version 2.4.8 - 06.16.2019
- Added a Soffit/Fascia tab to the Global Settings.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su445_800.jpg&hash=4cbf81d077a2dc9212a354dbd880cbcf)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on June 25, 2019, 06:58:26 AM
With the recent post about the foundation plugin (adding in parametrics for slab on grade foundations) some people are asking "Why did you stop working on complex roofs and move back to the foundation plugin?".  As it turns out the algorithm or logic for editing the "polygon" outline of a complex roof or foundation is pretty much the same.  Since I have the overall code in place for a slab on grade foundation I am first implementing the polygon face edit tool with the foundation plugin then I will bring this code over to the Truss plugin and complex roofs.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Mountainman38 on July 04, 2019, 06:49:23 AM
I came across your truss calculator today, and it's great! Thanks for making it freely available.

I'm able to download a PDF copy of my truss design, but I'd like to have a DWG or DXF file to put into a carport design I'm working on.  When I try to "Download the AUTOCAD copy of truss", I get a pop-up window that says "Creating CAD Files..." with the spinning circle, but it never completes.  I'm using Mozilla Firefox, if that makes a difference.

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on July 24, 2019, 03:33:45 PM
The "FRONT" option for Gable Truss parameter allows one to terminate a truss assembly where it meets another roof or wall but currently it does not provide for a GIRDER truss as shown:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su465_800.jpg&hash=317d87abdcf771c2cd9e4cc9eee97805)

I need to provide an additional option here called "GIRDER" which allows the user to terminate the truss assembly and also configure a girder truss (ie. Howe truss with heavy bottom chord and stubbed off tails).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on August 27, 2019, 11:54:53 AM
Version 2.4.9 - 08.27.2019
- Fixed the trim tool so that it is now able to trim hollow sections (ie. pipes, rectangular tubes).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Fwall_su271_800.jpg&hash=9e217dda35a57c7f96de40e0baa786da)

The extend tool already had this ability but for some reason I was not made aware that the trim tool was unable to handle hollow sections until just recently.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 08, 2019, 02:51:04 PM
Medeek Live Training: Session 2

https://youtu.be/WhIdP7Zr0dQ

Scheduled time is Sept. 12 (Thursday) at 11:00 PST

The primary topics covered will be the recent additions to the truss plugin (ie. soffit & fascia, asymmetric rafter roofs, etc...) however as usual I will be open to any other questions via the online chat.

The session should run about an hour in length depending on the number of questions I receive.

I think I've worked the kinks out of my streaming software, so things should go a bit smoother this time.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 21, 2019, 12:50:24 PM
Working in earnest on the complex roof module today after spending about two months overhauling the foundation plugin.

As I'm putting together this module I'm starting with a clean slate and trying to take advantage of all my behind the scenes and UI improvements I've made with the updates to foundation plugin and even the electrical plugin.  All of the menus for this module will be HTML.  Many of the editing and move tools will be brought over from the recent work on the foundation plugin.

The basic parameters that will define the complex roof overall geometry and roof planes are:

- polygon outline (provided by a face or a locus of user selected points)
- pitch
- overhang
- birdcut
- rafter depth

- rafter width
- ridgeboard depth
- ridgeboard width
- hip rafter depth
- hip rafter width
- valley rafter depth
- valley rafter width

- framing option: Yes/No

If the advanced roof options are enabled then the roof planes are actually further defined by the sub-fascia width since in two of three sub-fascia types the roof sheathing (plane) actually extends over the sub-fascia.

The advanced roof options will include:  sheathing, cladding, sub-fascia, hip-and-ridge, gutters and soffit & fascia.  The number of parameter required for all of these options is too numerous to list here.  Future advanced parameters might include: gypsum, ceiling joists, heel blocking

Once a complex roof assembly is created it then can be edited by selecting various roof planes and customizing that roof planes particular parameters.

The roof plane edit tool will allow the user to adjust the follow parameters specifically for that roof plane or eave/edge:

- pitch
- birdcut
- rafter depth
- Overhang OR Delta Height (vertical height of supporting top plate)

Additionally certain roof planes will be convertable from a hip configuration to a gable configuration.  Once a roof edge/plane is converted to a gable it will then need to be editable with a different "gable" menu, which will include a whole host of gable specific parameters (ie. outlookers, gable overhang, wall sheathing, wall cladding etc...)

Similar to the "Move SOG Edge" tool with the foundation plugin I will also have a "Move Roof Eave" tool that allows the user to move the roof outline around by picking an edge and dragging it perpendicular in or out.  This should make resizing a roof a breeze.

I will also have the "Edit Roof Outline" context menu tool which will allow the user to actually edit the polygon that defines the roof outline.

I'm posting this update not only for you but also for me as it is helping me organize some of my own thoughts about what direction I need to take this new development.  Any feedback or suggestions on what I have proposed thus far for this new module is very much welcomed.

Just to be clear this module is something I have been trying to accomplish within this plugin since I began coding it almost four years ago.  This is the Holy Grail of the Medeek Truss extension.  If I can pull this off successfully then I have actually accomplished something.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 22, 2019, 10:57:23 PM
First look at the Draw menu for a complex rafter roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su529_800.jpg&hash=157c57c77b2098d8462dc6ba728b257c)

When you first click the complex roof icon you are first presented with the initial selection menu:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su442_800.jpg&hash=68ede77e717e6c01f4bfd0083518b73b)

Once you click the rafter roof option you are then given the draw menu.

I now have the initial supporting infrastructure and templates in place, in other words the boring stuff (ie. attribute library storage and retrieval, draw and edit menus, polygon tool for point selection, global settings).

Now begins the much more challenging and exciting part of the development, establishing the roof planes and the actual geometry creation algorithms.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 25, 2019, 03:29:52 AM
First look at a complex roof primitive created with the complex roof module:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su534_800.jpg&hash=e4c81264d7c6a3a6c7781913085df3af)

The roof primitive will be placed on the hidden layer and the roof outline (blue colored face) will be placed on the outline layer.  The outline layer is important since it allows the moving of the roof edges.  Both of these layers are normally turned off but can be turned on manually at any time.

View the model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/10c5d29f-eee3-4ff7-8fbc-0686d6e9bc16/Complex-Roof-Test-1

So far the algorithm for generating the roof planes (roof primitive) seems pretty stable, I will have to try harder to break it.

The next step will be the edit functions and then sheathing and cladding, those are the easy ones.  After that it is on to sub-fascia, soffit & fascia and gutters.

The most difficult algorithms will be the framing and the hip & ridge.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 25, 2019, 11:27:19 AM
You can also eliminate entire roof planes simply by merging the edges of the roof:

Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 25, 2019, 11:56:58 PM
Complex octagon roofs are going to get interesting when it gets to the framing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su535_800.jpg&hash=50da3a4b72328b3830b7203b99033c8c)

I will be adding in a separate toolbar for complex roofs with the following tools:

- Draw Complex Roof
- Edit Complex Roof
- Move Roof Edge
- Edit Roof Plane

Some of these tools can also be accessed via the context menu by right clicking on the roof assembly.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 26, 2019, 11:54:05 AM
First look at the Complex Roofs toolbar:

I have removed the complex roof (draw) icon from the main toolbar.

The "Edit Complex Roof" tool will allow the user to manage all of the basic and advanced options for the overall roof.  The "Edit Roof Plane" tool will allow the user to select a specific roof plane and edit its specific parameters:

- pitch
- top plate height (vertical offset with respect to the main roof)
- overhang
- birdcut
- rafter depth

If a roof plane meets certain criteria the option to switch the roof plane to an end gable will also be allowed.  I have yet to work out all the details or algorithm which will determine whether a roof plane meets this criteria but I do have a pretty good idea on this one, however it may need some fine tuning.

If a roof plane is converted to a gable configuration then additional parameters for gable roofs will be presented in the roof plane edit menu (ie. gable overhang, outlookers, etc...)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 27, 2019, 12:12:35 AM
Still working on the trying to break the roof plane (primitive) algorithm.  I've added in a bit more error checking code.  It will probably be a couple more days of testing to make sure it is bullet proof or mostly bullet proof.

The edit, move edge and edit outline tools and functions are now all working.  The next item of business is the roof plane edit tool.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su537_800.jpg&hash=797c7d8b6faac59b25539833c54c42d9)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 28, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
Even the most convoluted shapes will generate a roof so long as they are closed polygons:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su538_800.jpg&hash=d3c837cee1ac4b701ddafc4e6acc852e)

However, I currently don't have a way to create a roof with inner polygons (holes), for example a donut shaped roof.  I don't think this is critical right now but I will put this on my todo list.

Just fixed a major performance bug/flaw in the plugin not only for this module but actually for all the plugins.  I will be releasing updates for each plugin including the Truss plugin that resolve this issue.

Currently working on the roof plane edit tool.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 28, 2019, 08:49:26 PM
Version 2.5.0 - 09.28.2019
- Fixed a critical performance bug that affects all the modules within the extension.
- Added the Complex Roofs toolbar.

*** CRITICAL PERFORMANCE UPDATE ***

If you are noticing a slowdown of the plugin performance after multiple edits to a roof or floor assembly, this fix will resolve that issue. This issue affects all previous versions of the plugin.

***

Also note that the complex roof toolbar is now active and will allow you to create a complex roof primitive (edit, move edge, edit outline and regen).  The "Edit Roof Plane" tool is currently not yet available.

The roof primitive and roof outline are placed on separate layers, I will get into that more with a  future tutorial video.  I primarily released this update tonight because of the performance issue I discovered this afternoon with all of the plugins, but it also allows some of you more adventurous designers the ability to test out the new complex roof tools.  Granted a lot remains to be done but at least I've got a start into it now.  I will be focused on it until it is complete.  After that I will attack the secondary roof module.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 28, 2019, 09:19:56 PM
An example of a roof primitive:

(Note, that I've assigned the material of the primitive to a different material and edited it so that it is transparent.)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/d9ecec46-8283-478f-91df-24fbd06530d5/Complex-Roof-Primitive-Test-2

The roof outline is a separate group within the assembly, on its own "outline" layer.  I've taken great care to make sure that the primitive is a "solid" so that the user will be able to use SketchUp's boolean (solid) tools to further manipulate these roof primitives if required.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 29, 2019, 10:52:50 AM
All the magic happens here:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2FIMG_0543.jpg&hash=681021c04692ec5987664cb13818d9f9)

Nothing elaborate with my office or setup.  The most critical is a somewhat decent computer that works well and the two monitors which allows me to open multiple ruby files at once when I need to.

So busy with the code that I still have not fixed the light fixture base (in the stairwell) that got knocked out of place a few months ago, I guess it all comes down to priorities.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 29, 2019, 12:50:38 PM
Every roof plane will be able to be customized (or have the customization removed and return to its default state where it uses the global settings of the roof assembly).

The first and most important parameter is the Roof Plane Type:  Hip or Gable

Not all roof planes will be able to convert to a gable configuration.  If you look at a complex roof you should only be able to turn the roof planes that form a triangle (defined by three vertices) into a gable configuration.  All other roof panes are going to be inclined or "hip".  The other constraint is that the angle between the roof plane in question and its adjacent roof planes on either side must be orthogonal (90 degrees), otherwise you could potentially try and gable a roof plane on a octagon shaped roof, which would not make any sense.  I think these two constraints will successfully limit a roof plane, as to whether it can become a gable end.

If a roof plane is customized and it is a hip its parameters are:

- pitch
- birdcut
- rafter depth
- overhang
- delta height

If a roof plane is customized and it is a gable end its parameters become:

- gable rafter option
- gable rafter depth
- gable overhang
- rake option
- rake width
- rake depth
- outlooker option
- outlooker spacing
- outlooker size
- outlooker orientation
- outlooker structural: Yes/No
- outlooker @ peak: Yes/No

P.S.  A certain situation exists where the roof plane has 4 vertices might also be able to be a gable end, I will study this further.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 29, 2019, 01:06:43 PM
Customizing roof planes gets a little complicated when combined with the roof edge move tool.  The problem is that as you move roof edges you potentially change up the shape of roof, eliminating certain roof planes entirely and also changing some roof planes that potentially could be gable ends back to a hip configuration and vice versa.

With custom roof planes the move tool is going to have to get a bit more elaborate (more logic) so that a number of checks can be run to make sure that we are not trying to turn certain roof planes into gable ends that physically cannot be this configuration and also checking to see if certain roof planes were deleted.

The outline edit tool is even a larger problem in my opinion.  How do you know which edges were retained after an outline edit?  I think the default behavior should be to erase all roof plane customizations after the outline edit tool is used.  I will need to give this some further thought.

Somehow I always knew that complex roofs was going to be a bit of a Pandora's box.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on September 30, 2019, 12:49:00 PM
Lots of little details when it comes to editing roof planes.  First of all let's introduce an updated  menu:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su541_800.jpg&hash=42d237bd02ba9a8200e4fe76a86fd2b7)

Notice that the roof plane status will tell you whether the selected roof plane is inheriting its parameters from the main roof or it has its own custom settings.

I've also added a "Clear Custom Settings" at the bottom of the menu so that one can return the roof plane to the default/global settings of the roof assembly.

Setting up all of this supporting infrastructure is somewhat tedious and certainly time consuming, however I do believe that a solid user interface that is both efficient and intuitive will make or break this module.

I intend for the edit plane tool to be persistent, provided that it does not affect stability.  In other words you can keep clicking on roof planes and updating them without having to restart the tool by clicking on the icon in the toolbar.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 01, 2019, 01:19:32 PM
If you take a look at these two roofs you will notice that in the second case the lower ridge has degenerated into the steeper roof plane:

I didn't think it was possible but there are certain configurations where a standard straight skeleton will not generate the expected roof.  This is a good example of that.

The complex roof module will not be able to automatically handle these types of situations.

This is where the secondary roof module will need to come in.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 01, 2019, 02:17:19 PM
Throwing all sorts of curve balls at this module to see if I can break it.  Ultimately one can always break anything if you try hard enough, especially with something as complex as some of these roofs get.

Overall I'm pretty happy with it, I've addressed the issue with inside corners and now all is working as expected.  Here is a recent test example of a roof with planes and pitches all over the place:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su545_800.jpg&hash=36be0bd6dce99d2474c8cf81b08c0e26)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/1f7e4e9c-e727-4053-956c-c71b57d4241d/Asymmetric-Complex-Roof-3

That being said there is always further testing that can be done.  I'm sure there is some state I have not thought of that someone will get the plugin into that will break it.

I think it is time to move on to the gable end option.  Once I get that working I think the utility of this new module will start to become apparent.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 01, 2019, 10:56:06 PM
Gable End option (within the edit roof panel menu) is now providing stable results:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su546_800.jpg&hash=15d82ba49b21c1586812013a152cbc66)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/b10e6638-5dea-4da2-8a60-dea543978109/Assymetric-Complex-Hip-and-Gable-Roof

The roof primitive module for asymmetric complex roofs with gable and hip ends is now complete.  Granted there is still room for additional options like dutch gable and half hips but I will leave those for another day.

I will now turn my attention to sheathing and cladding as well as the roof plane labels (name and sqft).

One thing I forgot to add into the overall roof parameters/options is anything for battens and cross battens.  I can add it in if I receive some positive feedback on that feature, otherwise I will move on and start into the sheathing module first thing tomorrow.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 01, 2019, 11:25:32 PM
Version 2.5.1 - 10.02.2019
- Enabled the "Edit Roof Plane" tool, allowing for customized roof planes within complex roof assemblies.
- Added the gable end option for complex roofs within the "Edit Roof Panel" tool/menu.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 03, 2019, 12:29:16 AM
Version 2.5.1b - 10.03.2019
- Added logic so that customized roof planes can co-exist with the "Move Roof Edge" and "Edit Roof Outline" tools of the complex roof module.

Previously, moving roof edges would potentially shift the customized roof planes if certain roof edges were removed or consolidated.  I think we have now achieved a fully parametric status with the various tools all working together.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 03, 2019, 11:54:19 AM
After giving it some further consideration I’ve decided to enable dutch gable and half hip options for custom roof planes rather than leave it for later. If I include these options now it will force me to keep my other more specific algorithms general enough to handle all cases. The geometry calcs required to generate the roof primitive for these two other configurations is really not that difficult and actually provides a rather intriguing challenge.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 03, 2019, 09:34:57 PM
I actually started developing these plugins quite by accident (Truss plugin). I have a web based truss calculator that I initially programmed as a purely academic exercise but eventually became a web based tool when I saw that others might have use for it. This web based app provided a way for the user to generate a DWG of the truss geometry and then download it. I don’t remember who it was, but a SketchUp user emailed me one day back in early Oct. 2015 if I could also make it generate a SketchUp file instead. At that point I had no idea if I could or not, I had no knowledge that SketchUp even had a Ruby API, so I said I would look into it. A few days later in some spare time I was curious if SketchUp might have some sort of AutoLisp like feature (similar to AutoCad) so I dug around on the internet a bit and sure enough an API did exist.

In a few hours I quickly hacked together a bit of Ruby code (my first time coding Ruby, all my previous coding experience is primarily Perl, javascript and HTML) and pretty soon I had some code that one could drop into the ruby console or your plugin folder (.rb file) and it would draw the truss geometry. At the same time I also discovered the various SketchUp forums (SketchUp and Sketchucation). I posted about my update to my truss calculator since I figured other SketchUp users might find this useful if they wanted to model up accurate trusses.

A few days later Julian Smith (South African Architect/Designer) asked me if this tool would become a “real extension”. That got me thinking and I thought if I can find the time it might be fun to actually make this into something. I was finding that the API and ruby were actually quite fun to program and it didn’t take much convincing to keep working on it, in truth it was strangely addicting. One thing led to the next and pretty soon the truss plugin was capable of generating a number of truss types.

In 2016 I started work on the Foundation plugin however I held off on developing the Wall plugin since John Brock (Estimator for SketchUp) had announced his work on a framing plugin.

By early 2018 the Truss plugin had gradually evolved into quite a complex and deep plugin and I had a number of people begging me to consider doing a Wall plugin, including Larry Belk who had been pushing me in that direction since 2015. Brock’s wall plugin had still not been released so I finally decided I’d go for it. Except this time, instead of working on it part time, I decided to go for it full time, a major leap of faith. I did a KickStarter campaign to see if there was sufficient interest in a Wall plugin and started programming it full time in early April 2018. By May 25th, I released the first BETA of the wall plugin and by January of this year I felt like the plugin was good enough to move it from BETA status to full.

All of the plugins are currently under active development, much work remains to be done. They have been my full time job since I started the Wall plugin last year. My current push is to complete the complex rafter roof module. I am grateful to SketchUp for having the foresight to provide an API, and for my customers who allow me to keep creating and pushing the ball forward, without them none of this would have been possible. One day I would like to see SketchUp become the predominant architectural tool used for residential and commercial work.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 03, 2019, 09:35:35 PM
First look at half hip complex roofs:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su548_800.jpg&hash=a2a20d4a3b5b89a60960a6143bb75014)

(textures added to roof primitive for effect)

Notice the additional "setback" parameter in the menu.  Also a half hip roof plane has both hip and gable parameters with the non-applicable parameters grayed out, as shown.

Similar to a gable end, the half hip can only be applied to certain roof planes, the plugin automatically restricts this placement.

The overhang of the half hip is governed by the gable overhang parameter, hence the overhang under the hip options is grayed out.

Now, on to the dutch gable...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 03, 2019, 11:51:14 PM
First look at dutch gable complex roofs:

(textures added to roof primitive for effect)

After I setup the system for the half hip this one fell out without too much trouble.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/6f5908e1-189d-420e-8675-78cbe32ef522/Dutch-Gable-Complex-Roof

Now it is time to move on to the sheathing and cladding, but first I need to add in some options for battens and cross battens.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 04, 2019, 12:29:43 AM
Version 2.5.2 - 10.04.2019
- Added the half hip option for complex roofs within the "Edit Roof Plane" tool/menu.
- Added the dutch gable option for complex roofs within the "Edit Roof Plane" tool/menu.
- The "Edit Roof Plane" tool has been made non-persistent to further improve stability.

(https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/original/3X/b/a/ba0c10451d45e46128cbb5f3c2e02510b47f294d.gif)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 04, 2019, 10:44:12 PM
First look at roof sheathing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su550_800.jpg&hash=fb9d548a281a91f7e35c78f620cd76bc)

Roof cladding is a little more involved because of the cladding extension parameter.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 05, 2019, 01:48:22 AM
A few more kinks to work out in the sheathing module, but overall it is working better than expected and it wasn't nearly as hard to code as I initially thought it would be.

View model here:

Still a bit more work to do with sheathing when the dutch gable option is utilized.  As you can tell from the model the sheathing is not tucking under the gable end overhang just yet.  I will be addressing this tomorrow.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 05, 2019, 03:02:02 PM
The rebuild time on this model takes about 1.5 seconds.  That is just with the roof primitive and sheathing.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su551_800.jpg&hash=5251e6e79a55827874fd7ee3ab6e93dd)

The question is what will the rebuild time be like for a model/roof this complex when all of the rafters and other accoutrements are included?

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/cbb4f973-a333-42a0-8262-70d351fa5f7b/Complex-Roof-Test-5
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 05, 2019, 09:44:54 PM
Version 2.5.3 - 10.05.2019
- Added sheathing for complex roofs.
- Fixed the sheathing at the gable overhang for dutch gable complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su552_800.jpg&hash=9f78c7536c84c1ed28432fc9861cbc27)

As shown in the image the sheathing with a dutch gable roof tucks up under the overhanging gable end.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/9b22a58d-9a63-4946-b9fe-e9bf0de0f2af/Dutch-Gable-Complex-Roof-Test-2

With this fix I think we are now 100% with the sheathing.  I will begin the cladding next.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 05, 2019, 10:56:17 PM
I've been thinking about connecting roofs together, for example a gable roof connecting to another building where the roof meets the wall.  For this type of scenario it might be useful to have an option for a cutoff end (gable end with no overhang etc...  I'm not sure exactly what to call this.

P.S.

It's funny where my thoughts take me when I take a breather from the code, I guess even when I'm on break I'm still contemplating what needs to be done with these plugins.  I just realized that I can enable one additional option in addition to all the other options (ie. gable, dutch gable, half hip). I will call this a "CONNECTION".  Basically you will be able to connect one roof to another (secondary roof).  However, rather than having a separate module for the secondary roof I just realized that with the connection option complex roofs can become secondary roofs, so an additional module is not necessary.

I will need to give this considerably more thought but I think this direction I need to go.  There will need to be some options for connection type (another roof, a wall or a roof and a wall).  I will need to explore the possibilities, this is going to get interesting.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 06, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
If things weren't complicated enough with complex roofs, they just got a lot more complicated.

Rather than having two or three different types of connections I think it makes more sense to sub divide it into two additional options and then a connection is simply a connection.  You end up with two additional options:  TERMINAL and CONNECTION

With terminal it is very similar to a gable end however the roof just ends, no overhangs, no outlookers etc...  This would be used when framing the roof up to a wall that is parallel to the roof edge.  Theoretically this same type of roof could be achieved with the CONNECTION option however it would remove the requirement for selecting a primary roof (or solid) to connect to, and just simply end the roof in a squared off fashion.

The CONNECTION option is a bit more interesting. To get the results that we want we need to make this end treatment as general as possible.  One could potentially connect to any group or component in the model or to another Medeek complex roof assembly.  I will need a tool within a tool which allows the user to select the primary roof/object that they would like to connect to.

1. If the selected group is a Medeek roof assembly then the primary roof will also store that it is being connected to by a secondary roof, and the secondary roof will list the instance name of the primary roof it is connecting to.

2. If the selected group or component (must be a solid) is a non-Medeek roof assembly it will also store and list the instance name of the primary object that the roof is connecting to.

Here are shown a couple of possible connection scenarios:

Connecting to another complex roof at an oblique angle and below the fascia line.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su553_800.jpg&hash=dc1f93172422c5090b764babcb9d5757)

Connecting to a non-Medeek roof (solid group).

To keep this option from completely spiraling out of control we must make the assumption that the only roof planes impacted by the connection will be the two adjacent and orthogonal roof planes that are either side of the connection roof edge (the connecting roof plane technically does not exist).  I'm sure there will be users who try to subvert this requirement in certain design situations, so some logic to check this limitations may need to be implemented.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 06, 2019, 12:10:54 PM
When you are connecting a roof into an arbitrary solid (ie. walls) you may end up with something like this:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su555_800.jpg&hash=39b7ef60519e22e1f6e06f57521e9b3f)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/7fa53493-8c52-4495-8ce4-88f129fdc80e/Roof-Connector-Test-3

You will notice I've modified the roof primitive to emphasize the gable overhang.  The key takeaway is that a roof connection should be treated like a gable end condition but with a certain amount subtracted away.  That way if you do have a situation like the one shown, you will get your rakeboard etc... The trick of course is too make sure the logic is smart enough to identify these potential configurations and then adjust for them.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 06, 2019, 02:05:33 PM
First look at roof sheathing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su556_800.jpg&hash=21d68738e7556db0786628ef3289a541)

I've exploded the model so you can get a better idea of all the elements in the assembly.

Note, that the roof outline group will always be at the same Z height as your input points or (top of wall plate).

Due to overhangs and your roof pitch the roof primitive may extend below the outline, hence the reason I hide the roof primitive layer when initiating the edge move tool or roof plane edit tool.

For cladding I still need to do some work due to the roof extension parameter, this complicates the geometry slightly since the cladding is not based on the same face (edge points) as the sheathing is.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 06, 2019, 09:42:01 PM

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su557_800.jpg&hash=c042150e52fb725b05f0e9f39a4594ea)

As you can see asymmetric roofs tend to complicate things slightly but regardless the correct lateral extension is achieved (0.75").  I will need to go back into the other rafter roof modules and correct this feature, I don't think I have it quite right.

Because of the possibility of fascia and the cladding extension parameter, the cladding becomes a bit more involved not only for hip roofs but also along the rake edges of dutch gables, gables and half hips.  All of these roof end conditions have unique solutions when it comes to cladding, and unfortunately it requires a fair bit of logic and coding on my part to make it happen.

The interesting thing about what I do is not so much about the programming, but more the manipulation of the data and the topological and geometric problems I am able to solve, with nothing more than a well written API, some ruby code, and at times some serious mental contortions.  I have certainly become well acquainted with the Geom module in the SketchUp API.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2019, 02:04:52 PM
That cladding extension parameter was a real pain.  However, as you can see in the image below it is now working for the half hip configuration:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su558_800.jpg&hash=ee49accbb24af75c9fde68f53cb43116)

I'm thinking about working on the roof plane labels next and then on to the sub-fascia.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2019, 08:15:28 PM
First look at labels with cladding and sheathing:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su559_800.jpg&hash=a49355787f6c43c8b12d179b08a69cbb)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/22e3874d-67ec-48a3-b89f-c4001e806a5f/Complex-Roof-Test-6

I need to add a scale factor for the text size which will allow the user to adjust the size of the text for the labels.  I actually need this for the entire plugin, not just this module.

The other issue is ordering the roof planes which may or may not be the same as the number of roof edges.  Note, that sometimes roof edges are collinear and if their other parameters are the same (ie. pitch, overhang etc...) the roof planes will merge into one.  For example take roof plane "N" in the model shown, it is bounded by two separate eave edges.

The ordering of roof planes gets a little bit interesting in these cases but all one can do is one's best to bring as much order to the chaos as possible.

Each label is centered on its respective roof plane (via the bounds.center method), sometimes this works out and sometimes it doesn't.  I don't really have any ideas on a better algorithm for the time being.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2019, 09:32:54 PM
Starting to work on the sub-fascia module.  Everything is pretty clear to me except for the half hip.  I actually have never added a half hip roof type to the plugin until now.  My proposed solution for a half hip with sub-fascia is:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su560_800.jpg&hash=6e71feb2451c375cd4b7ebe573401e1f)

I think it makes the most sense to bevel cut the rakeboard as shown so that the bottom edges of rakeboard flush up.  Please feel free to comment or suggest and alternative solution.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 07, 2019, 10:36:06 PM
Version 2.5.4 - 10.08.2019
- Added labels for complex roofs.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 08, 2019, 10:34:10 AM
Looking at some of Larry Belk's roofs this morning got me thinking about those crazy octagon shaped turrets often employed on upper end houses.  It seems they are rather popular these days, and I would imagine quite fun to frame up.

I honestly wish I was living in an area where a lot of this type of house building and framing is going on.  It would be very educational to visit a few of these job sites and observe how things are going together and ask a few (many) questions.

The image below shows what solution (upper octagon) the complex roof module will come up with when the octagon is integral with the rest of the roof (all one assembly):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su561_800.jpg&hash=e5cd9fef49fbaf32ddc0e25ab09b9457)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/6921b67e-240b-4cdc-9c21-6cd07997bc3a/Complex-Roof-with-Turrets

However, the solution you will probably want is the lower octagon turret where the octagon outline is fully preserved.

When the plugin creates the roof primitive it will only at a maximum have as many roof planes as there are roof edges (eaves).  The straight skeleton algorithm cannot add in additional roof planes that do not border a roof edge, this is just the way it works mathematically, there is nothing I can do about this behavior.

I will need to give this type of situation some more careful thought and consideration.  I have a few ideas up my sleeve already but the implementation is always the crux of the problem.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 08, 2019, 12:31:33 PM
One thing I haven't considered yet are roof returns (gable and half hip):

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su562_800.jpg&hash=c2a11f00086b2cede78dfb1b84901345)

However if you are going to go to the trouble to put a return on the half hip you will probably also do a lower return at the fascia line as well:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su563_800.jpg&hash=38b842469cfc9447ffb8431f428548d9)

Eventually half hips will need to have an option for returns:  Upper, Lower or Both

Also note that the pitch of the lower roof return equals the pitch of the half hip but this may not always be the case.  Also the lower roof return may have three possible configurations:  Full, Hip or Gable.

The complexity of complex roofs knows no bounds.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/a434deb1-1393-42fd-a5d0-8169040e6717/Half-Hip-with-Returns

I don't want to get lost in the weeds right now so I'm not going to implement roof returns for gable and half hip roof ends just yet.  This will have to be work for a later date.  However, it was worth exploring and considering the possibilities.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 09, 2019, 02:06:34 AM
Version 2.5.4b - 10.09.2019
- Fixed a bug with non-orthogonal roof plane labels for complex roofs.
- Resolved some minor bugs and stability issues with half hip and dutch gable roof options with complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su564_800.jpg&hash=59b32d27e824c7b451ced6faaeee3c16)

View model here:

If you are BETA testing the complex roof module I higly advise upgrading to this latest version as it addresses a problematic stability issue I was having with dutch gable roofs.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 09, 2019, 11:08:29 PM
Version 2.5.5 - 10.10.2019
- Added sub-fascia and rakeboards for complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su566_800.jpg&hash=6a8fa24ce9177c685a5a208fa79f380b)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/33431c47-70f0-4fd9-9456-057bd4747255/Complex-Roof-with-Sub-fascia-and-Rake

I've eliminated the FLUSH option and only kept the BEVEL and DROP option for sub-fascia.  I don't know that the FLUSH option ever really made any sense.  If enough people complain I can always bring it back.

We have enough "real" geometry now to show the basic outline of the roof.  I will next go after the soffit and fascia and then the gutters.  I'm still thinking about downspouts, a method to customize their placement makes the most sense.

I may have to take a break from the code for a couple of days (not really excited about that) as I have some traveling to do.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 10, 2019, 01:38:55 AM
I think the complex roof will be a welcome addition once I have moved the ball a bit further.  Testing the plugin suite combined with the complex roofs is quite satisfying but it does make me realize that so much more still needs to be done, not only with the roofs but also with the walls and other features (ie. porches, decks, steps etc...)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su567_800.jpg&hash=a549446d66e197f9f2539bce04a0a2b6)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/27993846-6a5c-48be-a762-bc139be925ac/Test-House-5

As they say the devil is in the details and there can be a lot of details with these residential (and commercial) structures.

I'm now 4 years into these plugins (the first iteration of the Truss plugin was released on 10/07/2015), well technically only 1.5 years full time.  I think I've made a fairly sizable dent, but looking at what still remains to be done, I'm not sure I even see an end in sight.

I beginning to warm up to the idea that I may need some programming help (perhaps even partners).  If you're familiar with the SketchUp API and interested in possibly getting involved in the development of these plugins, give me a shout I would be interested in talking with you.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 10, 2019, 12:35:37 PM
I'm now at the stage where I am beginning to work through my algorithms for the actual framing of the roof (ie. rafters, ridges, hips and valleys).  I begin by breaking down the edges of the roof so that I can determine which are hips, valleys, rakes, flying hips etc...  I also want to actually label each as such so when it comes time to dump all of this into the estimating module there is some order to it.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su551_800.jpg&hash=5251e6e79a55827874fd7ee3ab6e93dd)

If you look closely at a roof primitive and the edges that constitute that primitive, immediately a number of things jump out at you:

1.)  All of the horizontal edges that are at the same Z height as the top fascia line are roof perimeter edges or "fascia edges".  We do have to make an exception for the half hip though, since its fascia edge will be elevated above the eave height.

2.) All of the edges with vertices below the fascia Z height are irrelevant and we won't be needing those.

3.)  If we look at all the edges coming off of the perimeter vertices (we can find those easily enough by comparing against our perimeter points array) it is apparent that the inside angle between two fascia edges will determine whether the edge is a valley or a hip.  If the angle is less than 180 deg. then it is a hip.  if the angle is greater than 180 deg. it is a valley.  If the edges belong to a gable or half hip roof plane then they will be rake edges, rather than hips or valleys.

4.)  Next we grab all of the remaining edges where the height of the start and end vertices are equal.  These will form ridges.  An exception must be made for dutch gable and the half hip.  So it is best that we eliminate those edges first.

5.) Fortunately, there are no such thing as flying valleys, only flying hips.  By process of elimination the remaining edges will all be flying hips.  Flying hips are interesting because they always begin where a valley and ridge intersect and they end either intersecting another hip/flying hip at a ridge or at a peak with possibly multiple hips coming together at a point.

We basically dump each edge in the primitive into a hash so we have ourselves a quick lookup table for each edge that we can access it for future operations (ie. cutting rafters).

When the roof corner angles are all orthogonal (90 deg. or 270 deg.) the algorithm for the rafter framing should be fairly simple.  However when you throw in non-orthogonal angles (ie. octagon roofs) things become more complicated and there needs to be some logic to deal with these scenarios specifically.

Another reason that I need to classify the edges is that the width of the valleys, hips and ridges may not be equal, which will impact the trimming of the rafters as they intersect these members.

And that is all the magic there is to it.  I think the key breakthrough I had back in May (when I figured out my straight skeleton algorithm) was that I realized that once I somehow generated the roof primitive the rest would easily fall out.  Previously, I was trying to mathematically calculate  all of these vertices and edges, which turned out to be incredibly difficult and ultimately a dead end.

I now have a coherent plan of attack.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 10, 2019, 09:09:57 PM
Tutorial 16 - Introduction to Complex Roofs (19:42 min.)

https://youtu.be/UtlKXfN5d5s

I did forget to mention the "Edit Outline" function which can be initiated by right clicking on the roof assembly.  However, if you have a number of customized roof planes the results may become unpredictable, especially if the the outline is dramatically changed.  The feature will need some further refinement.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 11, 2019, 02:27:11 AM
First look at a gutter fully wrapping a complex (hip) roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su568_800.jpg&hash=e95c056862b0467f038638c9de6ca963)

Note the 3/4" offset from the sub-fascia since I have soffit and fascia enabled.  The 3/4" thick fascia is not drawn yet, hence the gap.

I've also set my vertical offset to 1" for the gutter.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 11, 2019, 01:53:04 PM
Version 2.5.6 - 10.11.2019
- Added gutters for complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su569_800.jpg&hash=6b47732b0017c743f9d4be4b7e57c0f0)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/83e51761-40b1-496f-b7bf-f06341aec044/Complex-Roof-with-Gutters

On this particular model I've employed a vertical offset of 1" and a gutter extension of 1.5" with a K5 style gutter, other gutter styles available.

I have not enabled downspouts yet as I need to come up with a better system for handling these.  I think I have a new system figured out but I need to work on the details before I'm ready to implement it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 11, 2019, 10:17:53 PM
My original restrictions on the placement of gable ends are too tight.  In order to created roofs where you may have a gable on a gable we need to relax things a bit or at least change up the conditionals:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su570_800.jpg&hash=5b7dd148aac51ae2eb93975a9672afeb)

This further complicates each building element or at least opens up possibilities which did not exist before so I will need to add additional logic for sheathing, cladding, sub-fascia and gutters.

Who said complex roofs were going to be easy.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 12, 2019, 12:22:02 AM
Another variation of the gable roof study:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su571_800.jpg&hash=a95b9a44e26c9c7f42f7e88986db10af)

The one thing that jumps out here is that gable roof planes cannot be adjacent to each other (or other variants like dutch gable or half hip configurations), gable roof planes are separated by hip planes.  Additionally, I will limit the gable option to orthogonal roof planes only (corners must be 90 or 270 degrees).

There is always on more thing to add, at some point I hope to have conquered this beast.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 12, 2019, 10:18:41 PM
A couple of interesting gable roofs:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su572_800.jpg&hash=5f4f61707bcbe7f856b64cc2a74b41e7)

Looks like I have the roof primitive working for "interior" gables.  Now I just need to sort out the details for sheathing, cladding, sub-fascia and gutters.  An interior gable is defined as a gable roof plane with one or more corner angles of 270 degrees (orthogonal inside corner), hence an interior gable.

For now I'm not going to allow interior dutch gables or half hips.  As long as the angles, at both corners, are 90 degrees then you will be able to place a dutch gable or half hip on that roof plane.  However, the gable is a little more flexible and will allow some interesting configurations, as shown.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 13, 2019, 04:35:02 PM
Notice how the sheathing is now projecting underneath the gable overhangs:

Now I just need to get the cladding to behave similarly and then a few adjustments to the sub-fascia and gutters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 13, 2019, 06:26:04 PM
First look at cladding correctly displaying for interior gables:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su575_800.jpg&hash=7a8268b7cc6cf88f56d0e347c17d5709)

The sub-fascia for interior gables is interesting because in most cases one or both side will die into another roof plane, however this is not always the case as can be seen in the example to the far left.  Logic to include all of these possibilities now must be constructed.

Unlike the much simpler exterior gable the position of the peak of the interior gable roof has no direct relation to the perimeter points that define this gable's edge.  Due to this inconvenience I cannot (easily) mathematically calculate the sub-fascia, I must use the roof primitive geometry to derive the correct points and position, again more emergent behavior.  In short, the roof primitive is smarter than I am.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 14, 2019, 01:27:00 PM
First look at sub-fascia for interior gables:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su576_800.jpg&hash=a081af2bcf257c0999a03597a6c171e3)

Bit of a struggle to consider all of the possible permutations for this type of roof but I think I have finally arrived at a robust solution.

I just need to consider gutters and then we can proceed with the actual framing of the roofs.

I've also heavily modified my error checking code for the roof primitive to make the overall performance more robust.  With the addition of interior gables there is more probability that the designer can create roof design that does not have valid geometry.  Further testing will be required to try and eliminate these scenarios or further augment the areas that are having trouble with these situations.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 14, 2019, 07:48:34 PM
Version 2.5.7 - 10.14.2019
- Allowed the option for interior gables within complex roofs.
- Fixed a bug in the gutter module for complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su577_800.jpg&hash=3b34232caf49a5e7069554edfecabeec)

I need to do some traveling in the next few days but I just wanted to get the update out the door before taking a break from the code.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/fc818a82-d981-456b-b506-fe654d41cc74/Complex-Roof-11-Gutters-with-Interior-Gables
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 15, 2019, 12:17:13 AM
As I'm taking a break from the code before my trip it dons on me that the soffit & fascia, primarily the fascia is probably more important than the actual roof framing right now.  If I have that feature enabled it will allow the designer to complete his or her elevations.  Whereas the framing is a critical future feature but does not really come into play for the actual construction documents.

With that in mind, I think my next big push will be to complete the soffit & fascia, then I will begin the framing algorithms.  The good news is that the fascia algorithms will be very similar to the sub-fascia so most of my work there is already done.

Also speaking to a number of plugin clients earlier today it  took me back at how many of them actually use AutoCad for their construction documents, and just import parallel projections from SketchUp as a DXF/DWG.  Even though the resulting mess of  "dumb lines" in your AutoCad drawing is not optimal I suppose it is still quicker and easier to do this rather than to try and actually draw a complex roof elevation from scratch.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 15, 2019, 11:01:38 AM
I will be out for 2 - 3 days however you can probably reach me by phone if it is an emergency, however I won't have any computer in front of me so it may be hard to do any significant support or troubleshooting.

I had an interesting conversation with a client today and he wondered if I disliked engineering, and that is why I am now developing plugins.  I do not  dislike engineering, in fact I really would like to get back into it  but I would like to get back into it with SketchUp and my plugins leading the charge.

The one problem I have with the way residential engineering is done (or at least the way I was doing it), is the lack of automation.  Yes, there are plenty of tools out there (spreadsheets, Forte etc...) that help with the calculations, however I want something even more streamlined.  I want a program that already takes a 3D model of a structure and then is somehow smart enough to propagate the loads throughout that structure and run all the numbers automatically.  This is the way engineering should be done in the 21st century, we have the computers, and yes we have the technology, we just need to leverage it so that we can stop wasting our time on tedious chores.

To be honest, most of residential engineering is quite mundane.  There is some engineering judgement that comes into play in certain situations however for the most part it is merely taking some inputs and running them through a number of AWC and ASCE equations and giving the result a GO or NO-GO.  This is exactly what computers were built for.

This is my **vision** for the engineering module and what it should be able to do:

I should be able to enter the site criteria for a project and then with the push of a single button crunch all of the engineering calcs for that model.  The items that fail will be flagged.  I modify those items accordingly (upgrade a header to a larger size), and then run the numbers again, until everything passes.  I then click the generate report, a PDF is generated.  I review it one last time, checking for errors and making sure all the inputs and outputs look reasonable and consistent, and then print out a paper copy, and stamp and sign it.

I've decided my time is much better spent developing a proper solution like this rather than continuing my practice of manually crunching numbers for local residential clients.  Undoubtedly, I would make more money working on local engineering projects than I would make working on just these plugins (full time).  In fact, I even turned down an employment opportunity last year for a really nice, six figure income so that I could specifically pursue the Wall plugin full time.

Currently I'm probably only making only about half of what I could make working strictly as a conventional engineer or corporate drone, but with me it has never been about the money.  One has to look at the big picture with these things.  I love what I do, I have full ownership, and I am able to help hundreds, maybe thousands of architects, engineers and designers rather than just a handful of local clients.  Every day I wake up I get to decide what needs to done, I control the direction I take, even though my customers do guide me.  I am also able to leverage both my love for programming and my love of engineering.   I didn't choose this path, it chose me.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 19, 2019, 10:56:30 AM
First look at fascia with complex roofs:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su579_800.jpg&hash=76f14a43a823f271b4aa4e93a00a5076)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/69ec1101-1f37-4689-bc60-f1633154495d/Fascia-Test-1

Now I just need to look at the various permutations for various roof end configurations (ie. gable, half hip, dutch gable).

With gable and half hip configurations we also have Boxed, Angled or Gable style configurations.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 20, 2019, 05:51:32 PM
First look at a half hip fascia and rake with a boxed soffit:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su580_800.jpg&hash=9a3b04a71f2bf477fdc477b21809a6d2)
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 21, 2019, 10:27:54 AM
First look at the soffit on a complex roof:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su581_800.jpg&hash=cea53000d821d85a48576a2ec64df5ed)

Unlike the sub-fascia and fascia the soffit (and its miter cuts) are also a function of the overhang at each roof plane, therefore the computation of the correct width of the soffit is a bit more complicated with asymmetric pitches.

The example shown is a symmetric roof with hips all the way around.  The inclusion of gables, dutch gables and half hips along with the soffit box extension parameter makes for a much more complicated problem.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 22, 2019, 09:34:29 AM
First look at a soffit on a complex hip roof with asymmetric roof planes:

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/v1.0/publiccontent/5d204ab3-9ff4-4014-9fdc-88c2efa3441f)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/4f9ea5e8-4a31-469c-81be-fbf0ce366596/Soffit-Test-2

Now I just need to complete the special cases situations for half hips, dutch gables and gables.  Still quite a bit of work to do with soffits and also some more work on the fascia for the boxed end case (return and triangular pieces).
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 24, 2019, 05:22:54 AM
First look at a complex roof with a gable end and soffit and fascia:

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su582_800.jpg&hash=e16ebb302106feb18132d09c53e2ff11)

I'm really trying to wrap up the soffit and fascia and get a new version released however there are a lot of details and possible geometries with the soffit and fascia when you throw gables, dutch gables and half hips into the mix.  The interior gables also further complicate the matter with a number permutations that must be specifically accounted for.

I probably have at least another day of adding in more logic for all of these possibilities, but I am getting close.

Rather than moving on to the actual framing I think I will spend a little time on roof connections and what I call a "terminal" roof configuration.  The terminal roof configuration is similar to the other configurations in that it can only be applied to a roof plane that has corner angles of 90 degrees.  I will allow the roof to just end (ie. no gable overhang), this will be useful when creating roofs that are adjacent to walls and other structures.

On a different note, I will be temporarily removing the "angled" option from the soffit type selection options.  This soffit configuration makes the most sense with simple gable roofs but with hip roofs it is a bit of a mess.  Until I study this further and make sure that I have a sensible solution I am limiting the soffit types to gable and boxed.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 24, 2019, 05:24:52 PM
Version 2.5.8 - 10.24.2019
- Added soffit & fascia for complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su584_800.jpg&hash=1dbdf9c0fa3454b2b3d8f4ba3bb1b218)

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/fc818a82-d981-456b-b506-fe654d41cc74/Complex-Roof-11-Gutters-with-Interior-Gables
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 26, 2019, 10:32:00 AM
Version 2.5.9 - 10.26.2019
- Added a trim fascia rake parameter for complex roofs.
- Resolved the issue with the soffit for the "gable" soffit configuration for complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su587_800.jpg&hash=0ac9c4af456a5b75b93823376d05a4ae)

Note that the trimming of the fascia rake is enabled automatically when you choose the "boxed" soffit configuration.  The "gable" configuration however allows one to trim the ends or leave them untrimmed.

For low roof pitches the "gable" soffit extends to the corners, at steeper roof pitches the logic checks the geometry and creates the flat section as required.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 26, 2019, 11:53:17 PM
First look at the "Terminal" roof plane configuration:

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/v1.0/publiccontent/68fa8165-9d56-4372-bec3-b2f852bf2195)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/7c5bd3f2-d80d-40bf-a7f5-c01a948ccf30/Complex-Roof-Test-14

The terminal configuration is utilized when you have a roof plane that abuts a vertical wall as shown.  To use this feature the corner angles of the roof plane must be both 90 degrees (same as a dutch gable or half hip).

The next feature I will be working on is a roof "connection", or the ability to create secondary/primary roofs, where one roof ties into another roof assembly or solid group or component.  This feature should prove a bit challenging but very useful if I am able to make it work as I have envisioned it.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 28, 2019, 11:57:09 PM
First look at two intersecting complex roof assemblies:

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/2841db7b-a46d-49f1-801e-771f6ceec84a/Intersecting-Roof-Assemblies

As I've worked my way through the logic of intersecting roof assemblies this evening it has become clear to me that the concept of primary and secondary roofs really does not exist.  In actuality intersecting roofs is the more correct terminology.  If a roof assembly intersects another roof assembly, each will need to have its geometry modified by the presence of the other assembly's roof primitive. Each assembly will store the other assembly's name in its attribute library (database) as a connecting object.

The tricky part of this will be the rafter framing, where a simple boolean subtraction of the opposing roof primitive from the rafters will not work.  I will need to ponder on this some more, I think the solution will probably reveal itself but currently I don't see a clear path on this one.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 30, 2019, 09:31:17 PM
Version 2.6.0 - 10.30.2019
- Added the terminal roof plane option for complex roofs.
- Added the "Complex Roof Connection" tool to the complex roof toolbar.
- Enabled Roof Connections for complex roofs: roof assemblies or solid groups.
- Added the "Remove Roof Connection" feature to the edit menu for complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su591_800.jpg&hash=c44ccc5a034eebd9fe7c8fce6ff25dca)

Tomorrow I will put out a tutorial video explaining the terminal roof plane option and the setting up and dismantling of roof/roof and roof/solid connections.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on October 31, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
Tutorial 17: Complex Roof Connections (19:05 min.)

https://youtu.be/L5GcytJzOrI

View model in tutorial here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/409737e8-7a33-40ba-9cd3-4ced14ce5e0d/Tutorial-17
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 01, 2019, 03:32:47 PM
The Medeek Halloween Haunted House:

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/bfbc1532-b2ed-488b-9847-16b13ce79618/Medeek-Haunted-House

Another test of the roof connection feature with chimney and turrets.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 03, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
First look at ridge boards with complex roofs:

(https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/original/3X/0/d/0deb088d607ddf32bac0bda6fba59534651d030b.jpeg)

Things get a little messy when a ridge terminates into more than two hips or flying hips (ie. octagon and hexogon roofs), I will need to add in additional logic to handle these types of situation.

The potential asymmetry of the roof planes also creates some interesting possibilities, however I do think I’ve solved that topological problem.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 07, 2019, 12:22:31 AM
Version 2.6.1 - 11.07.2019
- Added ridge boards for complex roofs.

The next framing item is hip and valley rafters.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on November 17, 2019, 09:58:39 PM
Version 2.6.2 - 11.17.2019
- Allowed the option for interior half hips within complex roofs.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesign.medeek.com%2Fresources%2Ftrussplugin%2Fimages%2Ftruss_su598_800.jpg&hash=291eaf66a0c0b7cf1e27574f8a7885a7)

The logic for interior half hips proved to be rather complicated.  This additional feature affected every aspect of the module so it took me about 7 days to make it happen.  However, in the process I think I also made the module more robust and addressed some other minor issues.  Eventually I will also need to enable interior dutch gables but right now I'm too exhausted mentally to attempt it.  Currently only gables and half hips are able to pile up on each other as shown.

Also note that you can mix things up with interior gables and half hips.  For instance you could have a half hip on gable on half hip or any other combination.

Now, let's see if I can make anymore head way on valleys, hips and rafters...
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 02, 2019, 09:29:09 PM
Version 2.6.3 - 12.02.2019
- Fixed multiple bugs in the complex roof module as related to metric templates.

After a bit of a Thanksgiving break I'm back on the complex roof module.  There is still a considerable amount of work to do with the framing of the roof, some of the details I am still sorting out, in particular a very efficient rafter framing algorithm.  I'm hoping to wrap this all up in the next couple of weeks and then jump over to the new Medeek Floor extension which will replace the floor truss/I-Joist module of the Truss plugin.

The new floor extension will allow for complex floors with the ability to alter the outline of floor similar to the complex roof.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 16, 2019, 03:14:08 PM
Version 2.6.4 - 12.16.2019
- Exposed the roof soffit layer name in Layers tab of the global settings.
- Fixed multiple bugs in the gambrel attic truss module.

If you are using gambrel attic trusses this is a critical update/fix.  This addresses the following two bugs:

- Error when metal plates was turned off in the global settings.
- Non-initialization of the roof cladding material name.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on December 18, 2019, 09:01:13 PM
Version 2.6.5 - 12.18.2019
- Enabled an "orthogonal mode" for the complex roof draw menu.
- Added the ability to delete points in the complex roof draw menu.

Clicking the "Ctrl" key will enforce orthogonal mode while using the draw tool.  Currently the orthogonal mode will restrict the user to 45 deg. increments.

While selecting the points for a roof outline the user may accidentally select an incorrect point.  By clicking the left arrow key the user can delete the previously selected point (or multiple points).  I will probably also incorporate this same feature within the draw menus of the foundation and upcoming floor plugin.

Both of these improvements are a result of plugin usability discussions with Larry Belk.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on January 29, 2020, 08:06:07 PM
Version 2.6.6 - 01.29.2020
- Fixed a bug in the (complex roofs) roof plane edit menu for the outlooker size parameter.
- Fixed a bug involving truss assemblies and valley set assemblies that are created in the same SketchUp session.
Title: Re: Truss Calculators
Post by: Medeek on February 09, 2020, 03:13:38 PM
Version 2.6.7 - 02.09.2020
- Fixed a bug in the text input method of the draw menu for complex rafter roofs.
- Added a T1-11 built-in material into the material library.
Templates: 3: Ads (default), Portal (default), Printpage (default).
Sub templates: 4: init, print_above, main, print_below.
Language files: 3: SPortal.english (default), index+Modifications.english (default), Ads.english (default).
Style sheets: 1: portal (default).
Files included: 31 - 896KB. (show)
Cache hits: 8: 0.00143s for 35,106 bytes (show)
Queries used: 16.

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