Just wondering if there are any patriots on this board? I have an idea to help fellow patriots pm if you want to know more.
How do you define patriot craig?
Fishing.
I'm a big fan of Patriots. Red Sox too.
I am enjoy Patriotic songs...
Patriots? New England?
Nah, I prefer my hometown team . . .
The - Dallas Cowboys? Opps . . . Texas Cowboys? Opps . . . Cowboys at Arlington?
$@#%%$! COWBOYS! (?)
/
Not only do we have patriots, or Patriots, we have a bin full of loonies. Or is that Loonies? Looneys? [cool]
rofl
I'm waiting to see patriot defined before I answer that....
I think my definition of patriot is currently defined as a terrorist.... [ouch] but then so is my dead grandma and a poor six year old girl.... [waiting]
sounds pretty fishy, pm me for super secret patriot information. why not just toss whatever you have to say out in general discussion. there are plenty of viewpoints here to rationally discuss any ideas you may have.
as for being a patriot, i love my country but i hate that my government has continued to be ran by thieves and criminals for the past three decades. I don't really know what does that make me...
You want me to define it ok a ron paul supporter someone who thinks the country is being manipulated and robbed by banksters. Someone who believes in the constitution and the fore fathers vision. Something along those lines. I just wanna deal with people with similar views don't worry nothing fishy.
OK. Some/many of us strongly believe in the US Constitution, believe the country is being led down the wrong road, and so forth.
What is your idea to help fellow patriots?
This is an open forum, with guidelines for good/civil behavior as listed in the user agreement. I believe we would all prefer to have this up front for all to see rather than have a bunch of behind the scenes PM'ing going on. Those who are interested will chime in and those who are not will skip over the thread.
OK. I do not support any politicians because as muldoon said, they are pretty much all criminals pushing the NWO agenda as mentioned by Bush senior.
I did agree with Ron Paul most of the time until he showed his true colors and disowned people who wanted an investigation of the government and their actions. He is just a diversion to sucker in the sheeple who would follow a true leader who would straighten out the government, and as he showed earlier, he is just a shirt stuffed full of hot air who will take your donations and support then back out on his followers leaving them hanging without anyone to follow. Much evidence points to his being a Mason and ultimately pushing the same devilish agenda as the rest of the politicians.
(http://www.disclose.tv/files/photos/e58e3a33512dd5cL.jpg)
Nearly all major current politicians are into flashing their evil hand signals because they all have the same leader.
Its also a deaf sign for I love you we can only hope he's on the good side. While here's my idea. I was thinking of ways to fight the banksters and I feel that the best way to motivate people is by making money. Patriots are currently are divided and live in zombie cities. Patriots need to organize there own communities from the ground up. I think the way to do this is by buying cheap land away from cities building a second home/cottage or first. Build that community and begin to influence your state politics. As more and people move to the community the value of everyones peoperty would increase not to mention all the commercial property that would have to be bought. Of course we would need people particularliy in the construction industry who can help train other patriots in there field in return for labor. Please pm if you want to take action I have many ideas I would like to discuss with serious people.
It is my observation that our representative model of democracy has, over the last few decades, moved control of elections and legislation away from the needs and desires "of the people" and into the hands of corporations and well-funded special interest groups. Not surprisingly this has tended to increase the share of wealth and federal tax dollars that flow to the economic and politically connected elites.
This is not good for democracy or the future of our country.
Communication technologies have greatly changed since the design of our federal system of government.
See this recent blog: http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly10/direct-democracy07-10.html
As always, such a radical change brings up as many questions as it (attempts) to answer:
• Is it time to revisit how we vote?
• Are there other ways (such as direct initiatives) to do this?
• What would it take to make such changes?
• What are the problems that would have to be solved.
I'm a Patriot and raised my right hand twice and swore to uphold and defend the Constitution. I'm a Libertarian, a Constitutionalist and I am not a Conspiracy nutjob (sorry to the Alex Jones fans out there but I think he IS a nutjob with a capital N).
I don't believe in the Freemasons are evil BS or that only bankers are to blame (though some may play a large role) -- the real blame falls upon you and me.
That's right, WE ARE TO BLAME for our own demise and current situation. The American people have allowed themselves to be taught alternative histories, to be steered away from what is right and right in front of themselves and worse yet, despite dismal approval ratings they continue to re-elect corrupt politicians.
Until the American people VOTE OUT the corruption in Washington DC there is NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING you can do. Building a town, city, get-away, patriots village whatever, in the woods IS NOT going to solve the problem. Voting out the Incumbents - ALL OF THEM will.
It might mean you have to vote out decent politicians too, but you must vote against ANY AND ALL incumbents. Then, if you can get ALL of America to do that (Good luck with that) then those new politicians will be afraid and won't be career politicians and MIGHT do something right - BUT THEN you must vote ALL OF THEM OUT TOO.
Sooner or later they will get the message and then start acting within the bounds of the Constitution.
Vote them out -- or except that they will ignore your rights and tread all over you daily without any concern what-so-ever.
As for bankers, the solution is right in front of you, it's called 'The Constitution'. However, the FED was created anyway and politicians keep it alive. VOTE THEM OUT and sooner or later they will end the FED and return to sanity.
Quote from: OlJarhead on July 09, 2010, 09:14:30 AM
That's right, WE ARE TO BLAME for our own demise and current situation.
I absolutely agree.. we are to blame for
everything. We are earth's largest parasite, though we obviously aren't willing to stop living or reproducing.
As the population grows, things will become more and more out of control. The system has become so complicated that it can't be fixed..
Quote from: SardonicSmile on July 09, 2010, 10:06:08 AM
Quote from: OlJarhead on July 09, 2010, 09:14:30 AM
That's right, WE ARE TO BLAME for our own demise and current situation.
I absolutely agree.. we are to blame for everything. We are earth's largest parasite, though we obviously aren't willing to stop living or reproducing.
As the population grows, things will become more and more out of control. The system has become so complicated that it can't be fixed..
I think it can be fixed but that would require honesty, integrity, moral clarity....well at least it would require a return to the Constitution.
It can be fixed but I hold very little hope that it will be. I beleive that the American people will vote themselves into Tyranny all in the name of 'social justice' and we will eventually go back to a system of serfs and masters, slaves and freemen, kings and subjects or proletariat leaders and comrades, animals and more equal animals.
The founding fathers believed that the populace tends to want a King - to take care of them - and that unless they are educated (history, religion -- yes religion - government and academics) they will fall pray to those who convince them 'they know best' and they will 'take care of them' or 'solve their problems'.
Today, American's are not educated. You would surprised how little they know of their own history and what they do know is often false. Indeed, many books in school are now based on unfounded speculation or interpretation while books that use original sources etc are shunned. Case law is taught in law schools instead of Constitutional Law and in general our populace is becoming less and less educated. Heck, as a young adult if they read...at all. Lately I'm finding they don't just not read, they haven't read ANYTHING at ANY TIME!!! Their eyes glaze over at the thought of reading history, they stammer when asked to read allowed and couldn't balance a check book much less understand simple math forumlas that we all learned and still use (like v=ir or A2+B2=C2)....
Sorry for the rant but we CAN fix the problem. Here are some ways it can be fixed:
1. Insist on original history. That's right, make kids actually learn the truth about the Founding Fathers and the birth of our nation -- all of it. Not just some progressive nonsense about the founders being rich white slave owning racist elitist deists (which is blatantly false by the way) but all of it. Sure some owned slaves, heck some even wanted slavery, on the other hand 9 of 13 states abolished slavery by 1773....you didn't know that did you?
2. Insist that if you don't learn the subject matter you FAIL and get to try again next year. That's right, no more taking a test 12 times to get it right, no graduating without actually completing all requirements, no easy rides etc etc.
3. Teach children there are winners and losers -- yes, sorry for all the liberals who want everyone to get a trophy but it's time to go back to only giving them to those who earn them.
4. Insist children read books -- classics are good but how about history. Instead of just giving them snippets make them read the darn book and write essays and take test on it...make them actually learn it.
5. Teach the bloody Constitution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. Teach people the importance of VOTING and being a part of the system.
7. TERM LIMITS FOR ALL
8. Bring back recall.
I could go on and on
OH, and don't forget: END THE FED!!!
Patriot ????????????
Well, lets see..I believe in God, The Constitution, Large Boosemed Wimmin and don't care much for the way the country is being run...but, an awful lot of
"Patriots" I know are nuts that really don't understand our founding fathers, spew a lot of nonsense about armed revolt under the command of some Militia Leader or the other and spend more time reading the Poor Mans James Bond than War & Peace.
I suppose the Powers that Be have me filed in the Anarchist box, instead of Patriot.
BTW, your plan isn't new. Back in the 60's they were called communes. I think the Government calls them Compounds now. ::)
Oljarhead is on the right track.
1- teach kids to read! (history, science, etc.)
2- make them earn their grades!
3- limit the use of the TV! (cut power cord off?)
Did I say teach kids to read?
Kids can learn to read as early as 3 or 4 years old.
My wife was sick a lot when she was a wee tyke, so
they taught her to read when she was 3 and a half
to keep her from driving her grandma crazy.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Not sure about the exact quote, but you get the idea.
There are other things to do but until you do the first three
you are pxxxxxg in the wind.
That is my two cents for what it's worth.
Yeah. Teach our kids to do math too.
You know what would get Washington's attention? If we quit paying our taxes weekly, and started paying quarterly.
That first three months would have them wondering.
Where are the kids going to learn math and to read? In public school?
That's a joke. I can really vouch for that, I went to 10 different public schools.
My uncle said he tried politics for most of his life before he died. He believed in it but found out it was futility.
The dumbing down has been slipped to Americans by those who know how to do it. Most didn't see it coming but they did watch friends, football, soccer and the like. Diversions and a feed bag... works every time. The sheeple don't even know they have been had because they don't want to look.
Americans will never solve the problem because they have been lulled into indifference.
The replacement politicians to take over the incumbents places have been carefully trained in the ways of criminality, lying and looking out for their own interests. We will not change it but standing back and watching it fall could be interesting.
Move over, Rome, here we come.
Education, or the lack thereof, is certainly a huge problem. Our son went to a private Christian school, partly because of our beliefs, and partly because FL schools are so dismal. We couldn't afford it, but we did it anyhow, without borrowing a dime. His school is like the schools I went to 40+ years ago- flunk a test; it goes on your grade. No 'do-overs'. Flunk a class, you have to take it again. Flunk enough classes, and you are held back (or politely asked to leave). My son has had the same friends since pre-school, and they all went to college together. Our boy is in graduate school, as are his friends that haven't already entered the work force. They are all very nice, polite, clean-cut kids who are more conservative than their parents. So- it can be done, although I think it's a case of too little, too late.
I'm in the camp that believes we are witnessing the fall of yet another empire. One of the problems with 'vote 'em out' is, Who do you put in their place? In FL, we have a heated battled between a long-time politician, and a newcomer with very deep pockets. Great, let's vote in the new guy, right? But he ran a huge hospital corporation that bilked Medicare out of billions. The only reason he's in the race is because he has LOTS of money. Is that a reason to elect someone? People like him are literally able to buy an election. Without big money, it's pretty much impossible to get elected to a high office. But where does all that money come from? Corporations, special interests, the mob- I don't know, but often, it's not the kind of influence you want behind your leaders. Where did Obama get all of his money? He was obviously backed by someone or something very BIG, and I don't trust their motives, whoever 'they' are.
With the economic woes, it seems like such a huge waste of resources for politicians to spend billions on campaigns. Couldn't that money be used for a better purpose? I'm so sick of political ads I could throw the TV out the window- and it's only July! I think politicians should be limited to a very small advertising budget, and only be allowed air time in the form of public service announcements that the networks would be required to run. That would take money out of the equation, and we could instead make our choices based on debates and a very few spots on TV.
We're definitely on the demise, and very few people care. Morality has been completely tossed out the window. Entertainment is king. Education is a joke. The politicians are nearly all corrupt, even at the highest level. We farmed out all of our work to foreign interests because manual labor is beneath us- we're too good for that. So we recline on our divans, eating peeled grapes, and calling for our violins......
Quote from: MushCreek on July 10, 2010, 07:19:01 AM
Flunk enough classes, and you are held back (or politely asked to leave).
That's a luxury private schools have that boosts their apparent success rate. All the low performers are simply expelled. It's easy when you don't have to expend resources on kids who need extra attention.
Public schools can't expell kids unless they are disruptive. They have to deal with kids who just aren't as smart as the top 10%. It is called accepting responsibility.
If public schools expelled the underperforming students at the same rate as private schools, we would have a permanent underclass of uneducated, unproductive juveniles spoiling for a reason to take out their frustrations on the society that spurned them. The answer is not in creating an elite education system that simply expells the kids they haven't got the patience or pocketbook to educate.
In the old days, schools had alternative programs for under-achieving kids, rather than making everybody else wait for them. Sorry, but every kid is not equal, whether it's brains, looks, or physical talent. Yes, you need some kind of program to keep kids from falling through the cracks, but dumbing down everyone else isn't the answer. I'm not advocating private schools for everybody; we were just lucky to have been able to give that to our child. BTW- I never remember any kids getting expelled at my son's school for low grades, and only a couple for behavioral issues.
When I went to school, you had to work for your grades, or a spot in the school play, or a position on the football team. Those that couldn't do those things simply couldn't. It's kinda like life- I can't be an opera star, or a basketball player. I don't have the tools- wasn't born with them, and won't ever have 'em. Back when this country had a manufacturing base, there was plenty for kids lacking 'school smarts' to do. They could go to trade school. and become machinists or cabinet makers or whatever. As the need for these skills has dropped off, so has the opportunities for people who are well suited for those lines of work. One of my best friends is functionally illiterate. He only graduated high school because they realized he was never going to accomplish anything in school. He's also one of the smartest and most successful people I know. He does have a strong work ethic, and isn't afraid to get dirty (he's in construction). There were no special programs for him; it was sink or swim. He just chose to swim in a different direction.
I find it interesting that now that schools have so many ways of accommodating kids with different needs, the drop-out rate is higher than ever. When I was a kid, drop-outs were extremely rare, and rather shocking. Now some areas have incredible drop-out rates. We already have a permanent underclass of uneducated, unproductive juveniles (and adults), and it seems to be getting bigger. It's all part of why I think this country, and western society is in such a state of decline. Parents don't care, kids don't care, teachers don't care, administrations don't care. That was one of the big differences in private school- EVERYbody cares. When you wanted to volunteer for something at the school, you had to wait your turn, because so many other parents wanted to volunteer. At every school event, you had to get there early to get a seat. I've been to events at public schools, and it's sad how few people attend. I don't have an answer; there isn't one, unless society somehow rights itself and returns to the days of morality, respect, politeness, respecting hard work and education; all of things I've seen fall by the wayside during my life.
Hmm... haven't been to the city lately, Pox?
We have cities full of those individuals.... products of gangs, indifferent parents, the modern government school system designed to produce unthinking, uneducated, unemployable cannon fodder for the never-ending political greed war of the moment. The CIA needs bodies to guard the poppy fields in Afghanistan to finance their operations.
Their networks bring the dope to our major cities and sell it to the idiots dumb enough to become addicted to it and not only finance the next mass of murderous covert ops but create more of the same useless drains on society in the cities to purchase more of their product and finance more of their operations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/newsbeat/newsid_7375000/7375494.stm
Video games are great. How much easier could it be to learn the basics of controlling modern military planes or weapons. That is all the little dummy really needs to know. He is expendable otherwise.... just meat with a mold-able mind.
Teach him that other races are animals and he will work out to be a fine killing machine to support our plunder of the wealth in other small semi-defenseless countries. Many are dumb enough to believe that. Endless government propaganda by the mainstream media whores will soon have the dumbed down America believing we should go somewhere else to kill. Many of the stories are obvious disinformation to sway the minds of the uncaring who will believe whatever the talking heads tell them.
Look how easily we are accepting the destruction of the ocean and the gulf states. It's alright - we don't care...hey ... how about them Lakers? [waiting]
Jay, I'm with you.
BTW, did you hear that untold riches in minerals have just been discovered (or brought into the open) in Afghanistan. What a blessing for the Afghan people... now they can get away from their life of growing poppies and become rich beyond their wildest dreams..... as soon as we clear the way for our corporations to get in there and safely exploit their natural resources.
Likely it will be led by a parent company of our corporations who have taken our jobs out of the country to profit from cheap labor so their CEO's can continue the gigantic annual incomes and ripoff of the American people without a care for the jobless lower class back home in the states.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on July 10, 2010, 10:13:34 AM
Hmm... haven't been to the city lately, Pox?
We have cities full of those individuals.... products of gangs, indifferent parents, the modern government school system designed to produce unthinking, uneducated, unemployable cannon fodder for the never-ending political greed war of the moment. The CIA needs bodies to guard the poppy fields in Afghanistan to finance their operations.
Their networks bring the dope to our major cities and sell it to the idiots dumb enough to become addicted to it and not only finance the next mass of murderous covert ops but create more of the same useless drains on society in the cities to purchase more of their product and finance more of their operations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/newsbeat/newsid_7375000/7375494.stm
Video games are great. How much easier could it be to learn the basics of controlling modern military planes or weapons. That is all the little dummy really needs to know. He is expendable otherwise.... just meat with a mold-able mind.
Teach him that other races are animals and he will work out to be a fine killing machine to support our plunder of the wealth in other small semi-defenseless countries. Many are dumb enough to believe that. Endless government propaganda by the mainstream media whores will soon have the dumbed down America believing we should go somewhere else to kill. Many of the stories are obvious disinformation to sway the minds of the uncaring who will believe whatever the talking heads tell them.
Look how easily we are accepting the destruction of the ocean and the gulf states. It's alright - we don't care...hey ... how about them Lakers? [waiting]
Jay, I'm with you.
And where will Labron James go?
Sickening.
OlJarhead, sorry to say I have not taken the time to learn who he really is or about his dilemma, but to my credit, I have seen his name in the mainstream headlines... [waiting]
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on July 10, 2010, 09:13:20 AM
If public schools expelled the underperforming students at the same rate as private schools, we would have a permanent underclass of uneducated, unproductive juveniles spoiling for a reason to take out their frustrations on the society that spurned them.
Heck, we have that now. We have a permanent underclass of uneducated, unproductive juveniles... and many of them have high school diplomas.
We don't have to expel the under achievers. Put them in shop class or home economics or something that they have somewhat of an aptitude for. Forcing them in the exact same academic path as those who have aptitudes for math and science only pisses them off and compromises the education of those who represent the bulk of the population, and especially the upper end of the curve.
Teachers have figured out that if Johnny brings home good grades, they don't have to deal with pissed off parents. So pretty much everybody makes good grades. Everybody wants to be valedictorian too... some schools have as many as 10 or more per graduating class.
Having done a significant amount of volunteer work in the APS public school system, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the majority of underachievers in school are doing so not because of lack of talent, but because of lack of discipline. They just don't try, are not motivated by teachers, and their parents don't give a crap.
It only takes one or two kids to disrupt an entire class when the teacher has no authority to discipline. We've made teachers apathetic. They can't punish the kid. What are they going to do... fail him and have him next year as well?
I really don't think "education" has much to do with this.. what people are beginning to lack is common sense and work ethic.. and that comes from parenting.
I had a very hard time in school (I'm 21 now). I was kicked out of every school I ever went to, except for the one I dropped out of. From the time I was in 7th grade to 10th grade when I dropped out, I didn't do an ounce of work. They literally passed me with 0's for all my grades. Two weeks after I dropped out, I got my GED and scored in the top 3 out of 215. Joined a technical college but disliked it also and dropped out. Three years later I make an average salary (and my CountryPlans home is nearly completed :P)
I give all the credit to my parents.. I sure couldn't give any to "education"!
My children will not be going to any public or private school. I really dislike the way they associate college and a large salary with being successful in life.
Note that while I emphasized the cities above, dope is also taking over the countryside for those who are dumb enough to partake.
Around here it has been run by the law enforcement agencies and traced all the way to the department of justice. The Sheriff who wanted to straighten it out was put away because he went to the state office in Sacramento and they are in on it too. There are still families that were involved in the below caper in government and law enforcement here - the case is part of the continuing CIA operations - the Octopus as it has been called is operating in a city near you.
http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/last_circle/0.htm
Part of the PROMIS software scandal - Danny Casolaro died because of his investigation.
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Circle-Casolaros-Investigation-Software/dp/1936296004%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJASE6HSSVXTNREYQ%26tag%3Dsmtfx1-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D1936296004
The case above has been roadblocked and never solved. It is business as usual. That is part of why things are the way they are today. You can bet most of our congress critters who know of this are willingly involved due to profits, and those who are not involved know enough to keep their mouths shut to stay alive.
I have been told by an insider that Congress and high government here in the US, is just posturing, drama, and acting for the benefit of the dumbed down people.
If a sincere Congress critter were to be elected and try to straighten things out, in the rehearsal they would be taken to the side, told how reality is by the old salts of Congress and given a script. Fail to follow the script, they will end up like other politicians who try to change important things without authorization from the real leaders of the world.
Frank, you have good points there and I have noted that worthwhile classes like shop, drafting, mechanics etc. are sometimes being dropped for lack of funding keeping more of the classes that are not of a lot of benefit for making a living in today's US.
Sardonic Smile, the education system has changed over the years to produce the problems you have experienced. Common sense is pretty much against school and government policy. You are to follow their book. You are to drop what you are doing and march to the next room when the bell rings. You are to salivate like Pavlov's dog at the noon whistle. You are to follow the current authority.
You are not to think..... hey.... I may not want to do that right now. You are not to have your own thought . Do not question the system. Do not learn trades that are not yours.
You are a carpenter. Do not pick up that pipe wrench.
You are a Doctor. Do not build your own house.
You are a secretary. Do not learn how to change your own tire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQeRG72E3OM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQeRG72E3OM)
Unthinking Majority - if you don't like the music try to watch it once for the message.
I am reading a very interesting book, actually a trillogy of which I am on part 2 called the Millagro Beanfield Wars.
It details how a Spanish farming community in New Mexico was suckered into losing their independance after 400 years of a self sustaining lifestyle. The young were targeted first, enticed into taking paying jobs. In turn their parents would have to hire someone elses kid to help work the land. To get the money for this one of the other family members would also have to take a job, and no longer have time to care for their cow. Now they have to buy milk. Most available jobs (highways, developments, golf courses etc.) ended up raising their taxes while offering them no benefits. Now they must sell off some of their land to pay these taxes, further reducing their independance. Before they realize it they have virtually nothing, and no hope of ever returning to their former way of life, which required no money, and no debt.
All carefully planned of course.
Most folks here seem to have the right idea. The more self sustaining debt free life you lead, the better off you are. As you become more attached to the governments teat, you become more enslaved.
49% of the population thinks the other 51% is full of beans. People need to stop blaming "those damn liberals!", or all the "pompous $%#@-ing republicans" for their woes.
The 2 party system is a bad joke. Deviseness by design. Different uniforms / same team. We, the sheeple, are being played for the fools we have proved ourselves to be.
Yeah... I agree with Dug.
I think politicians are basically actors. They perform for one group or the other, with no real passion except for whatever it takes for them to stay in office.
.. and to twist legislation to put money in their own pockets ... think of the swine flu hoax and all of the politicians invested in the pharma industry seeing to it that taxpayer money buys stockpiles of useless Tamiflu, vaccines and other unproven or useless drugs that will expire in six months but will transfer taxpayer money to their corporations. The drugs and scare are the vehicle to transport wealth to their pockets as is typical of nearly all loud federal government promotions - think of the war on terror, the war against drugs, the Afghan (operation Guard the Poppies and Plunder the Resources) and Iraq wars (Operation Kill Iraqi's ... I mean Iraqi Freedom) and on and on and on.... [waiting]
Interesting free book (Novel) from Cory Doctorow of Boing Boing, and seems applicable - I haven't read it - just skimmed the forward.
Link to PDF of Little Brother or many other formats on link below.
http://craphound.com/littlebrother/Cory_Doctorow_-_Little_Brother.pdf
http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/
Reviews
http://craphound.com/littlebrother/category/reviews/
We all probably agree more then not here at CPForums :)
After all, we build our own homes/cabins and pride ourselves in doing most if not all ourselves. We craft things, learn from each other and ignore what we're told we MUST do mos of the time ;)
4 years ago I looked my own life and said to myself: I've been broke because I've been stupid. I didn't blame anyone but myself and excepted that only Me, myself and I could change that. So, with my new wife convinced that we ought to change our lives too, we began by buying a meat slicer and vacuum sealer...seems benign right? 4 years later we purify our own water (won't drink that crap in the tap), have plenty of reserve cash in the bank (or safer place -- which is only safe if I don't go blabbing where that is more or less *snicker*), have a little PM stashed away, have paid cash for our land and cabin supplies and have a good store of food in the pantry (we're not Mormons but we could go a year now without the Grocery store).
We now garden, read homesteading books, watch the markets to see when it's best to buy PM's etc and generally live differently then we did 4 or 5 years ago. We buy bulk, repackage, hunt, garden and more all in the name of self sufficiency...and it's working.
The point? Uncle Sam had nothing to do with it and wouldn't have helped anyway. We did it ourselves and as a society, if we all do that, in our own ways, then perhaps, just maybe, we can wean ourselves off the Government Teat and take away their power.....but I'm probably dreaming!
Oh ya, almost forgot, thanks to Glenn and Don and others I've learned about solar power, composting toilets and more and we're doing those things too!
Some day we will need VERY little money and it won't be for food etc and on that day we will be more free then ever before in our lives...if we can keep Uncle Sam from coming around and explaining to us how we need him/them to make sure we're safe.....
I thought this might be relevant.
The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency. It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to an electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president." -- Author Unknown
You make it sound like the people actualy have viable canidates to vote for. Every election you get a choice of 2 or 3 canidates that are each as bad as the other only in different ways. At the end of the day all 3 are really the same and it matters not one bit who you voted for. So blaming people for electing Obama is pointless. If McCain had been elected would anything have been different in any meaningful way? Not likely. The system is set up to control who gets to run for office. With that control it doesn't matter who gets elected.
You beat me to that, Scott.
Some people still believe there is a choice but that is the way they have been programmed all of their lives to believe. It is not their fault . They just don't know any better.
It matters not whether it is Obama, Osama, or Osh-t leading us. They have already been vetted by the system and the elite who own it. Our situation will only get better when we realize that and learn to do as OlJarhead and many others are doing. Work more toward supporting ourselves and like minded people and quit supporting them.
I don't mind teats, but not the dirty one the government is offering me. You won't find that one in my mouth..... [waiting]
On how manipulation is accomplished...
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3571
(http://vigilantcitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tumblr_kq6vytxMGf1qa4ro0o1_5002-e1272768059470.jpg)
Quote from: MountainDon on July 08, 2010, 08:33:24 PM
Not only do we have patriots, or Patriots, we have a bin full of loonies. Or is that Loonies? Looneys? [cool]
rofl
That's pronounced "lu-nay" . . .
/
Quote from: glenn kangiser on July 10, 2010, 06:13:50 PM
You beat me to that, Scott.
Some people still believe there is a choice but that is the way they have been programmed all of their lives to believe. It is not their fault . They just don't know any better.
It matters not whether it is Obama, Osama, or Osh-t leading us. They have already been vetted by the system and the elite who own it. Our situation will only get better when we realize that and learn to do as OlJarhead and many others are doing. Work more toward supporting ourselves and like minded people and quit supporting them.
I don't mind teats, but not the dirty one the government is offering me. You won't find that one in my mouth..... [waiting]
Wickard v. Filburn That Supreme court ruling really says it all. Technicaly if the govt wants they can tell us we cannot grow our own veg or even have a goat. This ruling imo says we cannot live indepenently. Much like the new health care we are forced to pay for a product. Slavery.
Quote from: StinkerBell on July 12, 2010, 11:05:10 AM
Technicaly if the govt wants they can tell us we cannot grow our own veg or even have a goat. This ruling imo says we cannot live indepenently. Much like the new health care we are forced to pay for a product. Slavery.
That is an insult to people who are actually enduring the horrors of true slavery, even today. You may disagree with government taxation and regulations, but it is the height of hyperbole to compare yourself to the 27 million people in the world today that are still enslaved. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Current_situation) You have the right to assemble, to speak out, to organize, to vote; all things denied to slaves. If you just give up and say, "It doesn't make any difference what I do, it's all rigged", you don't deserve the liberty you crave. But that does not make you a slave.
I am willing to us the word Bondage instead, but Bondage is just a synonym of Slavery. You may feel insensed by that word. It is still the state of being bound by or subjected to some external power or control and that is not Freedom.
Lesseee....
I'm forced to work and pay a disproportionate amount for benefits that I don't receive. I have a handler who refuses to accept my input, and makes demands without regard to my opinion or needs. He tells me how to live, what to eat, steps on my individual rights, restricts my freedoms, and basically uses me for his own benefit.
Leave it at slavery Stink. (BTW, as a Slavic descendent, I take no offense to your use of that word).
I gotta go with Pox here.
I used a similar word in my post (enslaved) and later thought it sounded a bit arrogant. I am not what you would describe as being sensitive towards political correctness, and technically the definition in this case may be a match.
That being said, I think if I happened to be a black man, with ancestors who were chained and beaten, that my blood pressure might rise somewhat after reading a statement like that. Still too close to home, I think.
Maybe subjugated, or indentured servitude would be more appropriate.
Quote from: dug on July 12, 2010, 06:06:32 PM
I gotta go with Pox here.
I used a similar word in my post (enslaved) and later thought it sounded a bit arrogant. I am not what you would describe as being sensitive towards political correctness, and technically the definition in this case may be a match.
That being said, I think if I happened to be a black man, with ancestors who were chained and beaten, that my blood pressure might rise somewhat after reading a statement like that. Still too close to home, I think.
Maybe subjugated, or indentured servitude would be more appropriate.
I see your desire to be a diplomat here, however slavery is not owned by one group of individuals. It is what it is.
Quoteslavery is not owned by one group of individuals. It is what it is.
That I fully agree with. By most accepted definitions however, US citizens being classified as slaves is borderline at best .
Diplomacy isn't always a bad word. Just trying to look at things from someone else's point of view.
Let's put it this way then. Those in the US who believe they are free are disillusioned, brainwashed and in denial. [waiting]
It's more like a mutated form of serfdom in which the government acts as a go between. The serfs labors aren't owned by the lords directly, rather the government collects the lords share of their labors then redistributes it back to the lords.
Call it what you like it is a form of slavery.
Being required to purchase private insurance (or pay a fee) to protect yourself in the event of illness is not slavery. It's a silly word to use.
We have more freedom in this country than anywhere in the world. I know, I've traveled to six different continents, and lived in three. You have every right to disagree with certain political ideas, but to say that we are slaves is just plan silly. It's factually, and empirically incorrect.
Another word that gets thrown around without regard to the historical meaning is "tyranny". Paying taxes that are at the lowest marginal rate in 50 years (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3151) is not tyranny. It's pretty weak sauce when a freely elected government in a representational democracy is cast in the same light as true tyrants like Stalin, Pol Pot or Idi Amin. Call me when the government slaughters thousands and dumps them in mass graves, then we will talk tyranny. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own definitions.
Copyed from Wikipedia
Slavery (in the past, also called serfdom or thralldom) is a system in which people are the property of others. Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand wages. In some societies it was legal for an owner to kill a slave; in others it was a crime.[1]
The organization Anti-Slavery International defines slavery as "forced labour." By this definition there are approximately 27 million slaves in the world today, more than at any point in history and more than twice as many as all African slaves who survived being taken to the Americas in the Atlantic slave trade.[2][3][4]
The International Labour Organisation, however, does not equate forced labour with slavery. According to ILO, there are estimated 12 million people around the world still working under coercion in forced labour, slavery and slavery-like practices.[5]
Most are debt slaves, largely in South Asia, who are under debt bondage incurred by lenders, some for generations.[6] Human trafficking is mostly for prostituting women and children into the sex trade.[7] It is described as "the largest slave trade in history", is the fastest growing organized crime industry and according to predictions is set to outgrow drug trafficking.[7][8]
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on July 13, 2010, 08:43:49 AM
Another word that gets thrown around without regard to the historical meaning is "tyranny". Paying taxes that are at the lowest marginal rate in 50 years (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3151) is not tyranny. It's pretty weak sauce when a freely elected government in a representational democracy is cast in the same light as true tyrants like Stalin, Pol Pot or Idi Amin. Call me when the government slaughters thousands and dumps them in mass graves, then we will talk tyranny. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own definitions.
Not so fast -- good PR maybe, great propaganda but nonsense none-the-less. Today we have something called "tax diversity" (you can quote me as coining that one) which is where you shotgun blast people with little taxes so that they can't figure out what they actually pay and don't realize they actually PAY MORE in taxes.
Here is an example of how this works: Lower Income Tax to say 15% for a certain tax bracket, then raise Fuel Tax, Cigarette tax, alcohol tax, gas tax, death tax and who know what else...in fact there are entire websites devoted to just trying to sort out what taxes you do pay.
It's insane and when you add all the new taxes coming (thank you Obamacare) it's going to get worse.
Now, PoxEclipse, it is nice of you to point out that the Bush tax cuts did lower ALL OF OUR taxes (something you Liberals usually lie about) and that because of him (he made a lot of mistakes but this is something good) we have lower Federal Income Tax however, there are so many taxes that Progressives in various states increased and added to offset the Federal Income Tax that it made little difference.
And of course, in the end who cares if they even did away with Income Tax if all they did was create 12 new taxes to take it's place. Liberals would scream "But you don't even pay taxes" all the while you're losing 50 cents on the dollar to fund their 'big brother' programs.
How it is that those who hate big government always vote for big government I don't know but it astounds me.
I say do away with ALL personal taxes. Let me earn what I earn thanks. You could get rid of a lot of Federal and State Employees and save tons of money...and yes I've heard the weak kneed lamo argument that businesses will just pass it on to you -- DUH -- what do you think they do today? But at least I could fire the IRS (ok maybe only 90% of them) and dump tons of state IRS types and thereby save millions and put H&R Block out of business (unless they cater to businesses) and get us plain old citizens back to what we do best -- minding our own business.
Quote from: OlJarhead on July 13, 2010, 10:51:01 AM
Now, PoxEclipse, it is nice of you to point out that the Bush tax cuts did lower ALL OF OUR taxes (something you Liberals usually lie about) and that because of him (he made a lot of mistakes but this is something good) we have lower Federal Income Tax however, there are so many taxes that Progressives in various states increased and added to offset the Federal Income Tax that it made little difference.
Stay tuned. The Bush tax cuts are sunsetting soon. Biggest tax hike in history coming up.
Quote from: OlJarhead on July 13, 2010, 10:51:01 AM
I say do away with ALL personal taxes. Let me earn what I earn thanks.
The quaint notion that you should get to keep everything you earn certainly isn't what the Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution and gave Congress the power to collect taxes. The ink on the Constitution wasn't even dry when the George Washington sent troops into Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) to collect the whisky tax from farmers who were as misinformed as you about liberty and taxes.
If you wish to indulge in the pointless fantasy that you have the right to keep everything you earn, I won't stand in your way; but you cannot claim the original text of the Constitution as justification.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on July 13, 2010, 11:27:10 AM
Quote from: OlJarhead on July 13, 2010, 10:51:01 AM
I say do away with ALL personal taxes. Let me earn what I earn thanks.
The quaint notion that you should get to keep everything you earn certainly isn't what the Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution and gave Congress the power to collect taxes. The ink on the Constitution wasn't even dry when the George Washington sent troops into Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) to collect the whisky tax from farmers who were as misinformed as you about liberty and taxes.
If you wish to indulge in the pointless fantasy that you have the right to keep everything you earn, I won't stand in your way; but you cannot claim the original text of the Constitution as justification.
We all have the right to keep everything we earn, but I doubt anyone here is willing to fight and die for that right. Same way it is with all the other laws we dislike.
The laws will become much worse in the future, and maybe then we'll want to overthrow them. The problem is.. if we let things get to that point, we will most likely be unable to fight. The rights we had to protect ourselves will be long gone.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on July 13, 2010, 11:27:10 AM
Quote from: OlJarhead on July 13, 2010, 10:51:01 AM
I say do away with ALL personal taxes. Let me earn what I earn thanks.
The quaint notion that you should get to keep everything you earn certainly isn't what the Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution and gave Congress the power to collect taxes. The ink on the Constitution wasn't even dry when the George Washington sent troops into Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) to collect the whisky tax from farmers who were as misinformed as you about liberty and taxes.
If you wish to indulge in the pointless fantasy that you have the right to keep everything you earn, I won't stand in your way; but you cannot claim the original text of the Constitution as justification.
You missed my point entirely (which doesn't surprise me) this tax was on distillers....read your article again.
Quote from: OlJarhead on July 13, 2010, 02:14:33 PM
You missed my point entirely (which doesn't surprise me) this tax was on distillers....read your article again.
Are you going to pretend that the "distillers" were big, faceless corporations and not small farmers converting their corn crop into spirits?
To me the issue isn't paying taxes but rather how much we are forced to pay and the way the money is wasted and outright stolen. Income tax is just a tiny part of the total tax burden. Sit down and try to figure out how much you really pay. It's likely over 50% of your income which is about what the serfs of old had to pay in the form of labor. A more realistic amount is somewhere around 10-15%.
Federal income taxes
Social security tax...I paid this all my life and now they want to cut it...do I get a refund? nope
medicare tax...did this get repealed when they passed the mandatory insurance law? nope...why not?
State income taxes
excise taxes
property taxes...in OK we are taxed on all our property including furniture and houshold items.
sales taxes...9% here in OK
licence fees
automobile taxes
phone taxes...look at your phone bill. The tax is almost as much as the phone service.
fuel taxes
the list goes on and on....
ScottA,
How can you forget the Death Tax?
I didn't forget it. It's not really relavent to day to day living. But it is part of the wealth drain that forces people to keep working. Ever notice how the bucket seems to have holes drilled in it so it can never be filled?
Inflation tax...did you know about that one? it has run about 95% over the past 100 years or so. If your great grandfather had saved a dollar in 1910 and given it to you it would be worth about 5 cents in buying power today.
Death tax...make sure the next generation has to work
property tax...make sure you have to work to keep what you already paid for
The air we breath tax...isnt that cap and trade?
"No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the Legislature is in session." - Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866
I'd rather not know my full tax rate.... there is little to nothing I can do about it.
Death and taxes.
-f-
I have devised a relatively simple solution for addressing this problem. Send out bills, monthly, to each taxpayer for any spending that the govt. does so that nothing is financed. When bills hit peoples mailboxes they will be up in arms and start getting REALLY involved in govt. Everything is hidden and the can has been kicked down the road... and now we have reached a dead end.
QuoteThe air we breath tax...isnt that cap and trade?
I remember an old cartoon in Mad magazine where they had fitted people with breathing masks that had little meters like parking meters attached that you had to put coins in so you could breath. I wonder if they knew how close they really where to predicting the future.
interesting discussion.
It's not slavery, it's much more akin to feudalism as I see it. It seems to me that very few people actually want freedom. It seems to me people want to be taken care of, they want their handouts, their tax breaks, their perks and the like. They want their king to take care of them.
As I watch the europe crises unfold, I cannot help but know that eventually it will look the same here. As the situation deteriosriates there will be more marching in the streets - but they wont be asking for freedom. they wont be asking for a sound monetary foundation. they wont be asking for prosperity. they will be asking for their pensions. their healthcare. their welfare. those will be the voices filling the streets. begging their king to take care of them at whatever cost is necessary.
So, it's not slavery, but it is the very opposite of liberty and freedom as well.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/0/00/20090422191516%21Evictbonusarmy.jpg)
1932
In California we are taxed annually on our working tools - unsecured property I think they call it.....
There is no one lower than someone who would steal a mans tools and taxing them annually is a form of stealing them. The parasites just can't get enough....ever... [waiting]
They wouldn't need so much money if they stopped giving cell phones to people on welfare or trying to rule the world for that matter.
Our tools are taxed here too Glenn.
Isn't it fitting that just like a thief, the parasitic tax collector not only steals our hard earned money, but while leaching off of the working class, they themselves have no unsecured property to tax.
How do they go about taxing tools? Between home and work, I'd be in deep doo-doo!
I guess a masochist would declare them and send them a list, otherwise if you depreciate them on your fed tax form they seem to pick them up and perpetually tax you on them. Also come to think of it, it seems there is a form you are supposed to rat yourself out on. [ouch]
I sometimes forget how to fill it out as the fed tax is supposed to be voluntary and the state tax is based on the fed tax.
I haven't had a lot of excess time for volunteer work lately..... [waiting]
I'm glad I read this entire thread before responding. I was afraid I'd have to agree with POX. (He's from up north you know ;D).
Slavery may not be the best word. An old friend who is an historian, writer and a Native American, once told me about the way the Cherokee tried to conform to the new white society. They did very well and became property owners, farmers and were active in the white community.
That was all taken away in some states, including Virginia.
His last statement was, "Now the white Government is doing it to you too".
That's true!
There are ways to fight it. I don't subscribe to the armed rebellion program...at least not yet. The main reason is that there's no way to win unless there is a leader and organized movement. There isn't.
Every year I go to Richmond as a Lobbyist. I don't make money, it costs me...a lot. It's emotionally and physically draining and every year I leave saying I can't do it again. There's never anyone to take my place though and I go back because it's the most productive way to fight I can come up with right now.
The system we have is broken, corrupt and bloated...but the core values are still there. Hopefully some day, enough people will take the time to get involved and do more than talk. We may be able to rebuild the system just like we'd rebuild an old engine.
Soapbox mode off :P