What is the best type and length nail to use for framing 2x6 construction?
ring shank? 3"? ???
It probably depends a lot on local codes. Some areas you can use clipped heads and some areas you cannot.
As far as ring shank goes....they are generally only used in sheathing for example and not is regular framing. They are VERY difficult to pull out, so if you use them, be sure you have it right!!!
I have 4 Paslode framing nailers... Two Paslode 5350, a 350S and a Impulse cordless.
The 5350's are older and hard hitting . . . Will shoot 16d nails all day. You can pick these up at most pawn shops. Try them out before you buy! Walk away from the pawn shops that won't let you try them out. Probably something wrong with the nailer. The 5350s have a kind of "square" top to them.
I use the 350S for sheathing. Good for 8d and 12d nails. I had some problems trying to shoot 16d. Maybe just me. . .
I purchased the cordless used. . . I cleaned as factory directed, installed new cartridges and used newly charged batteries. I couldn't shoot more than 50-60 nails without having to reclean the nailer. For me, more trouble than it was worth.
A couple of drops of oil, where the hose attachs to the nailer (a couple of times a day)for the 5350 and tbe 350S is the only maintenance I have done. Rebuild kits are available on ebay for about $20
The Paslodes will shoot clipped-D nails or the offset full nails. I prefer to spend a little more money and purchase the galvanized offset nails.
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"I purchased the cordless used. . . I cleaned as factory directed, installed new cartridges and used newly charged batteries. I couldn't shoot more than 50-60 nails without having to reclean the nailer. For me, more trouble than it was worth."
I have had just the opposite experience with my cordless framer. Not a single problem. I have cleaned it and oiled it as directed. I have shot literally 1000's of nails with it with no problems. I probably just jinxed myself...but it is true. I have the paslode and hitachi cordless framers and both have worked very well.
While I haven't run too many nails through it yet, for the price I paid, and the performance I've seen so far, I think I got my money's worth out of this one so far:
http://www.tools-plus.com/porter-cable-fr350ar.html
It does full full head nails, plastic collated.
Sadly, it looks like the price has gone up about $20 in the last month since I purchased it. It was shipped and arrived a lot faster than I thought it would be (before the charge cleared my card!)
Quote from: rdzone on June 08, 2010, 02:49:40 PM
"I purchased the cordless used. . . I cleaned as factory directed, installed new cartridges and used newly charged batteries. I couldn't shoot more than 50-60 nails without having to reclean the nailer. For me, more trouble than it was worth."
I have had just the opposite experience with my cordless framer. Not a single problem. I have cleaned it and oiled it as directed. I have shot literally 1000's of nails with it with no problems. I probably just jinxed myself...but it is true. I have the paslode and hitachi cordless framers and both have worked very well.
I mean, (ahhh) that the cordless is in excellent condition! You wouldn't need another cordless, would you?
(Jest kidding) I'm probably doing something wrong . . . I didn't have time when building the garage and the cabin to mess with it. Thanks for the reminder. Another new chore!
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I think it depends on how often and how big a project you are undertaking. I have some good tools. I also buy harbor freight tools if I don't think I will use it very often. If you are building a shed in the backyard, a $50 HF full-head nailer will be fine. Buy the warranty for $5 and you should be set. I like the ring shank "P" nails. They really hold. If I was building a large home I think the extra $200 for a Hitachi or similiar would be justified.
Thank you all for your answers, i have a hitachi nailer.
ive been told non-ring shanked nailes are slick to shoot easier and they often back out
Ken Kern advocated using ring shank or screw nails as they hold around 9 times better than common nails. I like what he advocates and it is good as I never make a misnake and put a nail where I shouldn't... ::)
Dowel type fasteners... nails, screws, lags, pins...
Most of it is about diameter, depth of penetration and density of what you are fastening to.
Use the largest diameter you can get away with for shear strength. Get it in at least 10 diameters deep into the main member. Rings or screw shank hold much better in withdrawal... don't load framing connections in withdrawal ;). Hurriquake nails are supposed to be the best. Don't overdrive in sheathing, this means having the hammer ready to do it right. Full or offset head whenever possible.
(edit: Trivia, more than anyone needs to know, look at diameter of hand drives, commons and sinkers and think about lumber dimensions...16d sinker, .149" X 10, a 2x is 1.5" thick. 16 common, .162 most of you probably don't remember 1-5/8" framing. A 20 common or 30 sinker is .192"...rough sawn full dimension.)
thank you Don_P
thank you Glenn
Around here it seems everyone uses "16d short" for framing - 3 1/4" x.131. These are thinner and shorter than true "16d" (3 1/2" x .161) and you need to use more of them (3 in the end of each 2x6, cf 2 for "true" 16d). It seems that most nail guns won't handle the true 16d. For my roof sheathing 10d nails were spec'd for shear issues, so I had to use 3" x .148. The wall sheathing is 2 3/8" x .131 (regular 8d). For the floors I used ring shank, which iirc I could only get galvanized in the longer sizes needed for the 1 1/8" T&G plywood.
I used 3.5 inch galvinized nails for framing, all hand hammered, and I screwed my sheating.
Be careful using screws for framing or anything structural.
Quote from: Don_P on June 09, 2010, 08:28:24 PM
Be careful using screws for framing or anything structural.
Absolutely. This question about using screws for construction comes up every so often, frequently after someone has completed their job. Screws are not approved structural fasteners as Don_P hinted at. They are great for installing drywall, cabinets, door hinges, a shelf bracket, and the like. The structure from the bottom up to the roof framing, including wall and roof sheathing should be nailed. Ring shank or spiral are great for sheathing if you want to guard against pullout or walkout. Hot dipped galvanized nails also grip better against pull out than any smooth shank nail, otherwise are not necessary for framing.
If you need to remove a ring shank nail it ios often easier to cut them using a reciprocating saw with metal cutting blade.
The IRC has a table with recommended nail sizes (length and diameter) for all the parts that get nailed together.
Sometimes it is handy to use screws for temporary bracing or to squeeze two pieces together. But don't leave just them to hold the whole thing together forever.
I did notice that Simpson has recently come out with some smaller SD screws that are usable for structural stuff - here's the data sheet (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strongtie.com%2Fftp%2Ffliers%2FF-SDSCREW10.pdf&ei=6VoRTJjELoSUnQfYrumQAw&usg=AFQjCNF5-nnUV1qUlF9QiLfop7rqxNWtgw). Note these are different from the 1/4" SDS screws, and seem to be for use with metal connectors. Not sure on the code status but they seem like a good (if expensive) idea, if only for those awkward-to-hammer situations.
http://www.dhcsupplies.com/store/p/4248-Strong-Drive-SD-Screw-for-Structural-Connectors.html (http://www.dhcsupplies.com/store/p/4248-Strong-Drive-SD-Screw-for-Structural-Connectors.html)
could be cheaper elsewhere, but not likely by much. As you state davidj, they'd be great for use with difficult to hammer positions with steel brackets.
Thanks for the info
QuoteNot sure on the code status but they seem like a good (if expensive) idea, if only for those awkward-to-hammer situations.
The flier states that they are approved for specific connectors. That means there should be an ESR (Engineering Services Report) on the ICC-ES website. This is one way I check to see if something that an archidork specifies is actually approved for the use. The inspector is not obligated to respect that but I've also never seen one refuse after being told that there is an ESR. That's just general background. I expect there is an esr number on the box that could be checked on the website and often it gives insight into the intended use.
I recieved my nails by ups they are a 3" x 120 round head diamond point.
anyone see a problem with these?
I wish you had asked about a specific nail before you ordered. There are obviously plenty of houses built with them but that is a very small diameter nail. Look at chapter 6 of the codebook, table 602.3(1), they call for mostly 3"x.128's and 3-1/2"x.135's. (get to know this chart)
Looking it up in the NDS using this nail through a SPF 2x the shear for a .120 is 69 lbs, a .131 nail is good for 82 lbs. In SYP it goes from 89 to 106 lbs for those respective diameters. (pull the trigger an extra shot and get some longer & larger ones for built ups)
In an area where you want more, a 16d sinker (a hand drive nail) in spf is good for 100 lbs, in syp that nail is good for 128 lbs shear.
Thank You Don_p i will buy different nails for the built ups