(http://www.photos.oldva.org/albums/userpics/doa.jpg)
I couldn't find a hat over the heart smiley...sorry Peter. On a more positive note I'm learning how to spell Ameristan.
Don't worry. We'll get the defibrillator powered up this November.
I dunno, Frank. I think the corpse is already decomposing. I noticed quite a stench... [waiting]
Texas is planning on suing over the obamacare bill. Heard it on the radio on the way to work. We (Texas) are citing liberty issues.
QuoteTALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Attorneys general from 13 states sued the federal government Tuesday, claiming the landmark health care overhaul bill is unconstitutional just seven minutes after President Barack Obama signed it into law.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/2118223,health-care-lawsuit-constitution-032310.article
We filed the paperwork today. I think 13 states so far are planning to go to court.
Va passed a law this session that said the Federal Government cannot force Va residents to comply.
This is not going to be an easy case. The Supreme Court has allowed nearly everything to fall under the interstate clause.
This will be the base cite the Government will use:
In the 1942 case Wickard v. Filburn, the Supreme Court authorized the broadest federal power to date, concluding that a farmer growing wheat for his own use was not exempt from federal caps on wheat production that had been established by the government to artificially drive up the price of wheat. The fact that the farmer was growing wheat for his own use meant he would not purchase it on the open market. The Court held that his failure to purchase wheat in the market, taken in the aggregate, would have a substantial effect on interstate commerce. Thus, the Court laid the groundwork for Congress to regulate nearly any activity with a weak connection to economic activity, and for years Congress did not even bother to establish the basis for its Commerce Clause authority.
The may not even argue that if they can convince the court it's a tax.
The courts have upheld nearly every tax imposed.
The case is winnable though. If I had to guess, I'd speculate that part of the bill will get shot down and part will stand.
I suspect there will be shooting before this is over going by what some of what the Tea Party people have already said.
Va and the other states that passed "not in my state" legislation will probably be OK. It will be like the Pot Growers in California. Illegal under Federal law but near impossible to enforce.
Whatever happens, we have just witnessed the end of this country under our Constitution.
This is interesting and disturbing.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/
That's nothing. The teabaggers are now threatening to shoot people to overturn health care reform:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjbrenchley/4448018629
Taxation without representation has been known to start revolutions. I'd prefer peaceful means, but some folks are going to feel as though that the representatives are operating purely under personal motives. When even CNN shows that a majority of Americans are against the bill, and yet it still gets passed... while votes for it are being bought and paid for....that is going to raise a few hackles.
I'm afraid that I don't think this is anywhere near as bad as it is going to get.
Sore losers who resort to violence because they don't understand representative democracy deserve what happens to them.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on March 23, 2010, 10:19:44 PM
Sore losers who resort to violence because they don't understand representative democracy deserve what happens to them.
Freedom?
I'm curious... how does representative democracy work when the representatives ignore the constituents?
I'm not going to get into violence here. If it happens, it won't be over the internet.
I have to agree with NM though. This is far from over and I haven't decided who the good guys are yet. Too bad they really don't wear white hats.
I've had that 1968 feeling for a long time now, suddenly, it feels more like 69.
Violence is not the answer. Unfortunately, this seems to be the recourse of those who feel that they have no other avenue for notice.
Legal means will do. That and voting in November.
Quote from: NM_Shooter on March 24, 2010, 09:53:35 AM
Violence is not the answer. Unfortunately, this seems to be the recourse of those who feel that they have no other avenue for notice.
Legal means will do. That and voting in November.
I'm afraid we'll have both. That idiot advocating throwing bricks through windows isn't helping...and he;s only one of many.
The lawsuits will go on for years and I expect they will get an injunction stalling the law in the meantime.
Virginia and a number of other states passed "Not in my state" laws and that will throw a monkey wrench in implementing the Health bill.
But every time the Federal Government makes a counter move, some fool will go postal.
I often wonder how humans survived this long...and why!
Anyone who commits violence over this is falling right into their trap. That's what they want so they can tighten the screws ever tighter. A better way is to spread the truth far and wide. Talk to everyone you know. Changing opinions is the first step and really the only step. A guy with a brick has no chance against a Blackhawk. So long as we have a vote I'll never vote for an incumbent again. For that matter I'll never vote for a democrat or a republican either. It probly won't matter though since they control every name that gets on the ballot anyways. Stop working for them. Work just enough to get by nothing more.
I don't know what all the fuss is about Scott [scared] (I took a little break from the tractor) :-\
(http://www.photos.oldva.org//albums/userpics/normal_buy.jpg)
Quote from: NM_Shooter on March 24, 2010, 08:44:12 AM
I'm curious... how does representative democracy work when the representatives ignore the constituents?
According the the latest poll (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/03/an-early-verdict-gallup-respondents-support-health-cares-passage/37923/), only 40% thought passing the bill was a bad thing. So Congress did exactly what the public wanted.
Reform opponents are very loud, but they don't represent a plurality in any way. The system worked.
And before long, the MAJORITY, (Who don't pay nearly as much taxes as the minority), will vote themselves riches that will bring down this country. But since they are the MAJORITY, that makes it right, right?
The ones I'm watching are the Soccer Mom's that spend half their life in the tanning salon. The tanning tax will actually go into effect immediately and I'd bet very few even know about the included taxes.
It'll make for spirited conversation around the beauty parlor [slap]
Quote
And before long, the MAJORITY, (Who don't pay nearly as much taxes as the minority), will vote themselves riches that will bring down this country. But since they are the MAJORITY, that makes it right, right?
That's right. I have said it many times, and I won't apologize now. I favor tyranny by the majority. It is not the best system, but it is far better than allowing the minority to hold the country hostage to their crackpot ideas.
Think of it as the free market of ideas. Good ideas generate more votes. Bad ideas, not so much.
The market has spoken.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on March 24, 2010, 02:42:49 PM
Quote from: NM_Shooter on March 24, 2010, 08:44:12 AM
I'm curious... how does representative democracy work when the representatives ignore the constituents?
According the the latest poll (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/03/an-early-verdict-gallup-respondents-support-health-cares-passage/37923/), only 40% thought passing the bill was a bad thing. So Congress did exactly what the public wanted.
Reform opponents are very loud, but they don't represent a plurality in any way. The system worked.
Scroll down just a little bit on the page you provided as a link and check out the average number of all the polls. Based on your comment that it worked if the polls proved it, then it must have failed if all the polls say so as well..
I like Dees and his educational art....
(http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/obamacare_dees.jpg)
Quote from: glenn kangiser on March 25, 2010, 09:40:01 PM
I like Dees and his educational art....
(http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/obamacare_dees.jpg)
Hey, that kid in the front right used to come here pretty often. Sold junk car parts, didn't like guns and beat people with pipes. [slap]
[rofl2] [rofl2]
Talked to him last night... chatted on face book.
The one that my dog would like is the one with the doggy chew toy ears...top center right. :)
Paul Craig Roberts is giving up trying to talk to the sheeple. His final comments on the death of America.
Paul Craig Roberts was an editor of the Wall Street Journal and an Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury. His latest book, HOW THE ECONOMY WAS LOST, has just been published by CounterPunch/AK Press.http://www.easycartsecure.com/CounterPunch/CounterPunch_Books.html
http://www.rense.com/general90/libb.htm
It's sad to say but he's right. America has been conquered from within and will soon go down the drain leaving who as the global power? The bankers who else. They are the ones who directed this destruction. They will still be the ones on top when it's over. My guess is the US will fragment into several smaller states who will in turn be drawn into a North American union with Canada and Mexico. That will be followed by a union with the EU and eventualy a world union. The war for this NWO is already being waged and will expand over the next few years. When it's over all countries will be of a "second" world status except for a very few small central power states. The poorest countries will be made better off the richer countries will be made poorer until there is a semi-balance of wealth around the world. America will become a giant nature preserve with 95% of the population forced to live in large cities.
Quote from: ScottA on March 26, 2010, 12:24:22 PM
America has been conquered from within and will soon go down the drain leaving who as the global power? The bankers who else. They are the ones who directed this destruction.
I thought it was the socialists? Maybe it's the socialist bankers? I can't keep the conspirators straight without a program...
rofl
I never thought of it being funny Pox. Maybe it is if you're one of them. We'll see how it all pans out though. Even the socialists will be scratching thier heads when this is all over me thinks.
I think you are pretty close, Scott.
Pox, I don't see you really getting what you think they are going to give you. They are much greedier than you think and they will not share with you as much as they lead you to believe.
Sometimes getting what you thought you wanted is not nearly as satisfying as the wanting made it seem it would be....
Thoughts to live by as we rush to predict gloom, doom and collapse ;)
Hey Pox! You're back. I missed the acknowledgment by you that your poll post proves that a majority of Americans are not in favor of the bill. What's that saying? Hoisted by his own petard? Did you want to discuss that more, or move on to the next topic that you can't logically defend?
You're right Glenn..... nobody knows exactly what we are getting out of the bills (except maybe the unions, Louisiana, Nebraska, Michigan,Connecticut, etc) until it happens. We do know that it is almost a trillion bucks (more) that our stellar economy will easily pay for.
Next up, the rewrite of mortgages for those who are upside down in their houses. Where the hell is that money going to come from? (Yeah, I know).
Kinda makes me wish I had not been paying my mortgages all these years. Just like the "health" care bill, we are rewarding the least productive members of our society.
We're fertilizing the weeds and killing the beans.
Quote from: NM_Shooter on March 27, 2010, 09:06:09 AM
Hey Pox! You're back. I missed the acknowledgment by you that your poll post proves that a majority of Americans are not in favor of the bill. What's that saying? Hoisted by his own petard? Did you want to discuss that more, or move on to the next topic that you can't logically defend?
I acknowledge no such thing. The majority of Americans have always been in favor of health care reform that includes a public option. They are are still in favor of what passed, but by a smaller margin, because it is not liberal enough.
Since when are you devoted to defending your position through logic anyhow? Seems like you just got religion in that regard, as it has been conspicuously absent in every other point you make.
In order to"Give" us anything they have to "Take" over twice as much from us to cover their always screwed up and top heavy administration fees. More parasites to live off of the nearly dead Oak tree that used to be America.
The America of our forefathers is indeed dead as it goes from a country of struggling pioneers to a land of entitlement where big brother will drop a coin into the hand of every homeless or near homeless person, after he has taken that home and reduced it's inhabitants to rags.
Still like a faithful beaten and abused dog, many of the beaten will still crawl up to, accept scraps from, and lick the hand of the master who put him out in the cold while the master will continue to benefit from the loyalty and assets of the poor dumb animals.
Still some will realize what is being done to them and walk away being much too smart to take the poison offerings.... [waiting]
Others, likely a majority will run for the scraps, be picked up by animal control and enjoy the bars of their subservience, happy to sit and wait for the next scrap that is tossed their way as the master takes it away from the working class.
What happens when the food runs out and the feeding stops?.... They will not be able to fend for themselves and who knows.... some may perish when there is no longer anything to take.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on March 27, 2010, 10:09:51 AM
Quote from: NM_Shooter on March 27, 2010, 09:06:09 AM
Hey Pox! You're back. I missed the acknowledgment by you that your poll post proves that a majority of Americans are not in favor of the bill. What's that saying? Hoisted by his own petard? Did you want to discuss that more, or move on to the next topic that you can't logically defend?
I acknowledge no such thing. The majority of Americans have always been in favor of health care reform that includes a public option. They are are still in favor of what passed, but by a smaller margin, because it is not liberal enough.
My challenge stands... point out one flawed logic posting of mine and let's discuss it. If the logic is wrong, I'll admit it. With regards to your own hypocrisy, let me break it down for you (feel free to ask me to use smaller words. I'm here to help!)
You recently posted a link to a Gallop Poll by which you said this conclusively proves that Americans are in favor of the "health" care bill. You posted a link to a Gallop poll summary : http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/03/an-early-verdict-gallup-respondents-support-health-cares-passage/37923/
This Gallop poll shows that 49% of Americans approve of the bill.
However, on that same page, it provides a link to an average of multiple polls... here's a quote from that page :
"Right now, Pollster.com's average shows 50.5% opposed and 41.5% in favor--and that's mostly in line with what polls have shown, on average, for the past few months leading up to this vote."
Your very own post shows that you were wrong. (Hence the "hoisted by one's own petard" thing. )
This is why it is sooooo dangerous to allow liberals to be in control of anything more than the TV remote control (and then only when there are no adults in the room). They make decisions based upon emotion, refuse to acknowledge facts, never acknowledge their mistakes, and never, ever, ever.... answer hard questions pointing out the error of their ways .
Prove me wrong. Admit that the post you supplied supports that a majority of Americans disprove of the "health" care bill, and retract your statement otherwise.
For those of you interested in actual data, here is an interesting site:
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthplan.php