They have to follow the gun laws in your state but better check aand make sure they know what they are.
http://news.oldva.org/?p=3764
Why Lord Why, must we deal with
On Monday the 22end, the law goes into effect that requires National Parks to allow firearms in the park. It's really pretty simple. The parks must abide by the law within the state they are in.
So far, so good
(https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/page3.jpg)
In Central Virginia, an internal memo went out.
Now that's pretty neat! they got it right. Now the bad part on page 2.
(https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/page4.jpg)
There are a couple of glaring problems here.
First, there is NOTHING in Virginia law that says anything about a gun needing 1/3 exposed to be open. A firearm is considered concealed when:
ยง 18.2-308.
"If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation,"
That's it! Hidden from common observation. !/8 can be visible and it can be clearly observed and identified.
Next is the major Faux Pas:
Carrying a firearm in your hands, whether handgun or long gun, is not OC. That's considered Brandishing and it's against the law.
Pardon me Guys, but BullSh...(well, you know)
http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes/toc1802000/18.2-282.html
18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.
Now I think the key word in that is "reasonably"...What does that mean. Not being a lawyer, I decided to consult the Virginia Supreme Court.
81 E.g., Kelsoe v. Commonwealth, 226 Va. 197, 308 S.E.2d 104 (1983) (''There are
two elements of the offense: (1) pointing or brandishing a firearm, and (2) doing so
in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of a victim.''). See Nantz
v. State, 740 N.E.2d 1276, 1283 (Ind. App. 2001); State v. Tate, 377 N.E.2d 778 (1978)
I don't see one thing there about peacefully walking around with your shotgun. Seems I have to do something other than have a shotgun in my hand.If just holding your gun were a crime, every hunter in the state would be guilty.
The Feds need to do a little research I think.
Wow! How'd I miss hearing about that?
The anti-gun crowd must be freaking out.
(https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/oddnends3/a-shot-in-the-park444614540.jpg)
That's actually from an anti gun article, but there is something about it I like anyways.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2010-02-17/news/a-shot-in-the-park/ (http://www.seattleweekly.com/2010-02-17/news/a-shot-in-the-park/)
Quote from: RainDog on February 19, 2010, 10:14:54 PM
Wow! How'd I miss hearing about that?
The anti-gun crowd must be freaking out.
This has been going on for a while.
The Department enacted the rules a while ago and were in effect for a short time. The Brady bunch took it to Federal Court and the Court decided the Department didn't have the Authority by itself (Short version)
We pressured Congress (NRA< VCDL< GOA<ETC) to pass legislation. To make sure it would be signed into law it was attached to the Credit Card Reform Bill so veto the Carry and Veto the Bill. It is now law.
Oh...I have no idea who the scoundrel was that took the pictures of the Internal, not for public viewing, Memo. ???
Darned camera nuts!
I am in no way anti-gun, though I have a feeling many of you would lump me in that category. I am, however, anti 'gun nut'. I am not saying anyone here is a gun nut, I don't know you well enough to make that accusation.
Seems to me there are some places they just don't belong. Churches would be one for most reasonable folk.
National parks are my church.
Now... yuk it up boys.
Quote from: dug on February 19, 2010, 10:56:00 PM
I am in no way anti-gun, though I have a feeling many of you would lump me in that category. I am, however, anti 'gun nut'. I am not saying anyone here is a gun nut, I don't know you well enough to make that accusation.
Seems to me there are some places they just don't belong. Churches would be one for most reasonable folk.
National parks are my church.
Now... yuk it up boys.
I expect the people murdered on the Skyline drive would be relieved to know they died in your church. Maybe you need to do a little better job telling your congregation about the Ten Commandments. Then we wouldn't need to carry a gun in your church and MY mountains.
Now... yuk it up boys.No need to!
Maybe you need to do a little better job telling your congregation about the Ten Commandments.
My congregation doesn't carry guns, unless we're hunting of course. My opinion is different than yours, nothing else.
Quote from: dug on February 19, 2010, 11:25:17 PM
My congregation doesn't carry guns, unless we're hunting of course. My opinion is different than yours, nothing else.
That's true Dug and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But the bottom line is, lawful gun owners can and will carry guns in National Parks so you should get used to the idea. The nearest Park to me is only open from sunrise to sunset and at 6:51 AM I will be there wearing, a Magnum Research BFR in 45/70 for the picture taking ceremony, as will people all over the country.
After that I'll go home, take it off and go on about my business.
You feel safe unarmed in the city yet feel a need to carry in a park ???
A national park is not a national forest. No problem in the forest, no need in the park, there is only one creature you can be hunting there. I cannot even take a dog in a park, I can in a forest. The method of implementation is nothing to be proud of. I have guns and am respectful of others feelings about them. They are tools I need to have in the country, I needed them twice this past week in a humanitarian role, its been a tough winter in your mountains. I suspect a mother walking her child on a park loop encountering a man with a gun will indeed feel fear and that would be a very reasonable reaction in my mind. If I'm on that jury, he was brandishing...even if it was in the holster. There's a time and a place, that ain't it. This kind of crap endangers my and every legitimate gun owners' 2nd ammendment rights, irresponsible stupidity.
Don, I don't live in the city. I'm not too far from you.
You make some good points. I don't agree with them but then again, you don't need me too.
But...the bottom line is still that we worked very hard for this one and we won!
And also, when I'm in the city I don't feel safe but I wear my 1911 not the BFR.
When I first read this post of peternap's, I immediately did a quick search on the web, 'cause as I said I hadn't heard about it before.
In Dug's unsolicited defense, there do seem to be folks objecting to this that don't seem to fit the typical anti-gun profile.
Example:
The National Parks Conservation Association
http://www.npca.org/media_center/press_releases/2010/guns_parks_021910.html (http://www.npca.org/media_center/press_releases/2010/guns_parks_021910.html)
I own multiple firearms, but I don't hunt or carry anymore, so this doesn't directly effect me personally. I'll be interested to see how this ends up working out, though.
It should be pointed out that the new rule applies to National Monuments, Historic Parks and Trails, etc. as well as National Parks. Here in NM there are more Nat. Monuments than Nat. Parks. In general I don't think anyone will really notice much difference during any visit.
To me the new rule makes a lot of sense. Perhaps that is because I am in a state with permissive gun laws. A motor vehicle is treated as an extension of one's home. That is I can carry any loaded legal firearm in the vehicle if I want. Having to stop and unload, lock up a firearm before driving into or through a National Park or Monument always struck me as silly if not dumb.
We'll still have to follow the rule about no firearms with the park buildings as they are federal facilities and fall under the same no gun rule that applies to all federal buildings. That's the same as having to watch for "no gun" signs on any businesses around the state. This new rule simplifies things.
I wonder if the no gun in federal facilities rule will apply to the vault toilets located outside the main visitor center buildings?
Quote from: Don_P on February 20, 2010, 12:02:59 AM
You feel safe unarmed in the city yet feel a need to carry in a park ???
A national park is not a national forest. No problem in the forest, no need in the park, there is only one creature you can be hunting there. I cannot even take a dog in a park, I can in a forest. The method of implementation is nothing to be proud of. I have guns and am respectful of others feelings about them. They are tools I need to have in the country, I needed them twice this past week in a humanitarian role, its been a tough winter in your mountains. I suspect a mother walking her child on a park loop encountering a man with a gun will indeed feel fear and that would be a very reasonable reaction in my mind. If I'm on that jury, he was brandishing...even if it was in the holster. There's a time and a place, that ain't it. This kind of crap endangers my and every legitimate gun owners' 2nd ammendment rights, irresponsible stupidity.
I just edited this post Don. It isn't wort the bandwidth to respond to it!
The gun toting people I worry about are the ones that are going to be carrying illegally wherever they go. The ones who all along have carried their guns in a concealed manner without having a permit, while being convicted felons, and so on. I've seldom given a second thought to people on trails with guns, other than to wonder what it was.
Quote from: MountainDon on February 20, 2010, 12:36:11 AM
The gun toting people I worry about are the ones that are going to be carrying illegally wherever they go. The ones who all along have carried their guns in a concealed manner without having a permit, while being convicted felons, and so on. I've seldom given a second thought to people on trails with guns, other than to wonder what it was.
Exactly.
Quote from: MountainDon on February 20, 2010, 12:25:27 AM
I wonder if the no gun in federal facilities rule will apply to the vault toilets located outside the main visitor center buildings?
No it Won't.
In order to be a facility under that definition, it has to be staffed.
Thank you Peter.
They are required to post a notice at the entrance of each building you CAN't enter.
(https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/sign.jpg)
This was posted where the arrow on the left is.
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Quote from: dug on February 19, 2010, 10:56:00 PM
I am in no way anti-gun, though I have a feeling many of you would lump me in that category. I am, however, anti 'gun nut'. I am not saying anyone here is a gun nut, I don't know you well enough to make that accusation.
Seems to me there are some places they just don't belong. Churches would be one for most reasonable folk.
National parks are my church.
Now... yuk it up boys.
You haven't heard about the massacres in the mosques?
Looks like you better start carrying in church too. :)
Quote from: Don_P on February 20, 2010, 12:02:59 AM
You feel safe unarmed in the city yet feel a need to carry in a park ???
A national park is not a national forest. No problem in the forest, no need in the park, there is only one creature you can be hunting there. I cannot even take a dog in a park, I can in a forest. The method of implementation is nothing to be proud of. I have guns and am respectful of others feelings about them. They are tools I need to have in the country, I needed them twice this past week in a humanitarian role, its been a tough winter in your mountains. I suspect a mother walking her child on a park loop encountering a man with a gun will indeed feel fear and that would be a very reasonable reaction in my mind. If I'm on that jury, he was brandishing...even if it was in the holster. There's a time and a place, that ain't it. This kind of crap endangers my and every legitimate gun owners' 2nd ammendment rights, irresponsible stupidity.
Don, I live next to a national park. It contains a lot of wild land and animals, and millions of people including criminals go there yearly. It is large enough that there are major dope growing operations in it in the outlying areas and dope growers commonly shoot at people. Honest people with guns are not a danger to others but there is no way to limit who visits parks especially the back country.
I don't usually feel the need to pack in the main areas, however if I was hiking cross country I would. Lots of dope growers, wild animals- bears etc. who are not afraid of people. Maybe they are a danger -maybe not.
You can't educate people who stick their heads in a tree stump Glenn, even the ones that claim to be Pro Gun.
Here are just a few comments about the parks for those interested.
A watchdog group last week warned that law enforcement work in national parks is the most dangerous in federal service.
"National Park Service officers are 12 times more likely to be killed or injured as a result of an assault than FBI agents," the group Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility reported. "National Park Service commissioned law-enforcement officers were victims of assaults 111 times in 2004, nearly a third of which resulted in injury. This figure tops the 2003 total of 106 assaults and the 2002 total of 98."
"The National Park Service has an astoundingly poor safety record for its officers," says Randall Kendrick, who represents park rangers as part of the Fraternal Order of Police. "If anything, these assaults against park rangers are undercounted. If there is not a death or injury, pressures within a national park can cause the incident to be reported as being much more minor than it is in reality, and it is not unheard of for an assault to go unreported altogether."
So why all this violence and crime in places that are supposed to be tranquil and relaxing? Alcohol or drugs are part of most violent incidents. Hideaway methamphetamine labs and marijuana fields in rural park areas (some of them run by drug cartels) and illegal aliens crossing through parks near the US- Mexico border are part of a growing crime scene.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
THE FOREST TRAIL THAT BEGINS at the highest point on Virginia's Skyline Drive and drops quickly away from civilization seems an unlikely site for a double murder. As it descends into the backcountry of Shenandoah National Park, the gentle slope grows more pronounced and the rocky surface provides a tenuous foothold. In the distance, a clear creek cuts through an otherwise silent world of thick ferns and red-capped mushrooms. It was here on June 1 that park rangers, alerted by a concerned father's phone call, stumbled across the bodies of Julianne Williams, 24, and Lollie Winans, 26, at a wooded campsite, their wrists bound and their throats slit. The only witness to the crime appeared to be Winans' golden retriever, Taj.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Could this man be the Blue Ridge parkway rapist?
BY CARLOS SANTOS
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, March 7, 2007
COVINGSTON, VA - Authorities in Nelson County are investigating the circumstantial case against Michael Andrew Nicholaou, now dead by suicide, in a 1984 rape along the Blue Ridge Parkway.
The rape garnered national attention after DNA tests in 1994 proved that the man found guilty, Edward Honaker, was innocent. Honaker was sentenced in 1985 to three life sentences and served more than 10 years in prison before then-Gov. George Allen pardoned him. He was one of the first convicts in Virginia freed by DNA testing.
Nicholaou, who once ran a porn shop in Charlottesville, is a possible suspect in the June 23, 1984, rape near the Big Spy overlook. Michael Nicholaou
Michael Nicholaou
Nicholaou fatally shot himself in 2005 on New Year's Eve after killing his wife and stepdaughter in Tampa, Fla. Nicholaou first came to the attention of Nelson authorities after Florida private detective Lynn-Marie Carty was contacted late last year by a client who had seen a story about Honaker on Court TV.
The client told Carty that Honaker bore an incredible resemblance to Nicholaou. Carty contacted Nelson authorities.
"It is a remarkable resemblance," said Mac Bridgwater, an investigator with the Nelson Sheriff's Department. "When I saw their pictures . . . it told me we had to take a look at this."
Nicholaou is also a suspect in homicides in New England. Carty, a detective who specializes in reuniting lost relatives, had been tracking Nicholaou on behalf of the family of his former wife. Family members believe he is the cause of her disappearance in 1988 in Massachusetts.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
On August 29, 1996, authorities responded to a call from a logger who had discovered a Toyota Tercel partially submerged in a drainage ditch near the Ditchbank Road in rural Carlton County. After the car was pulled from the ditch and identified as belonging to Larry and Mary Antonich of Two Harbors, authorities found the body of the Antonichs' son, 17-year-old Paul Antonich, in the trunk. The St. Louis County medical examiner determined Antonich's death resulted from multiple gunshot wounds inflicted after Antonich had received a severe beating. Antonich was last seen alive the previous evening, leaving for home in his parents' Tercel from a youth group meeting at the Hermantown Community Church.
Every state has it's own crime stories about the NPS and they keep getting worse.
The end of the story is, Guns are legal as of midnight tomorrow night. Those that don't like it...should have thought about it while the rest of us were working together to push it through.
You can't educate people who stick their heads in a tree stump Glenn, even the ones that claim to be Pro Gun.
In order to educate someone you need to be speaking facts, you are voicing your opinion, which you are fully entitled to do.
It is your opinion that if every law abiding citizen carries a firearm, the world will be a safer place. I disagree, that is my opinion. Seems if that were true the U.S. would be the safest civilized country on earth seeing how we have the most people carrying guns, but lo and behold it aint so! In fact we have the firearms related death rates per capita of any non-3rd world country. Hmmmmm.
For 30 years now one of my greatest joys has been exploring wilderness areas . The wilder, the better. Many thousand miles I have logged without a single incident worth speaking of. I guess it can't be that dangerous.
Yes, bad things can and do occasionally happen, and it is a shame. I am just of the opinion that guns are not the answer. By far the biggest danger in the wilderness is being unprepared for the elements or getting lost. I am good friends with the SAR coordinator here in SW NM and the only gun related deaths have been suicide.
Quote from: dug on February 20, 2010, 08:55:32 PM
You can't educate people who stick their heads in a tree stump Glenn, even the ones that claim to be Pro Gun.
In order to educate someone you need to be speaking facts, you are voicing your opinion, which you are fully entitled to do.
It is your opinion that if every law abiding citizen carries a firearm, the world will be a safer place. I disagree, that is my opinion. Seems if that were true the U.S. would be the safest civilized country on earth seeing how we have the most people carrying guns, but lo and behold it aint so! In fact we have the firearms related death rates per capita of any non-3rd world country. Hmmmmm.
For 30 years now one of my greatest joys has been exploring wilderness areas . The wilder, the better. Many thousand miles I have logged without a single incident worth speaking of. I guess it can't be that dangerous.
Yes, bad things can and do occasionally happen, and it is a shame. I am just of the opinion that guns are not the answer. By far the biggest danger in the wilderness is being unprepared for the elements or getting lost. I am good friends with the SAR coordinator here in SW NM and the only gun related deaths have been suicide.
Facts..,.read em.
No one's saying you have to carry one. Everyone CAN NOW MAKE THEIR OWN MIND UP NOW!
I've been treking mountains longer than you if you only have 30 years in. Born in Va Mountains, grew up up in them and carry a gun whenever I go into them.
Now you want facts. The fact is VCDL In Va, and the NRA, GOA and a few others, pushed hard for this and got it. Fact!
Fact, it is the law now and there isn't anything you can do about it!
Fact, you don't have to carry a gun.
If you don't like it, join the Brady Campain. They aren't doing too well these days and could use some new recruits.
A law abiding citizen is defenseless against a criminal with a gun in most cases unless he has a gun.
The criminal will hurt someone possibly with the gun. The law abiding citizen with the gun will only protect himself against the criminal. He is not a threat to other law abiding citizens.
The criminal is the only one that need fear a law abiding citizen with a gun.
I seldom ever voice my opinion Because to others it doesn't matter what I feel any more than someones opinion changes how I feel.
I'm for rights. basic human rights. If I want to carry for any reason anywhere I should be able to without fear of being arrested.
Someone with criminal intention is taking away someones basic human right and I'm against that.
You will never find a subject about anything that doesn't have it's cry babies. I'm not referring to anyone here but to this globe that spins around everyday.
Quote from: diyfrank on February 20, 2010, 09:37:04 PM
I seldom ever voice my opinion Because to others it doesn't matter what I feel any more than someones opinion changes how I feel.
I'm for rights. basic human rights. If I want to carry for any reason anywhere I should be able to without fear of being arrested.
Someone with criminal intention is taking away someones basic human right and I'm against that.
You will never find a subject about anything that doesn't have it's cry babies. I'm not referring to anyone here but to this globe that spins around everyday.
That was well stated Frank! [cool]
Fact, it is the law now and there isn't anything you can do about it!
Never said I was trying to do something about it. Just voicing my say. I thought that was what this forum was about, or maybe it would be better if I only posted when I agree with you.
No reason to gloat, you won, remember?
I do agree with Glenn that if someone is assaulting you with a gun, having one of your own would probably be your best defense.
Quote from: dug on February 20, 2010, 09:50:09 PM
I thought that was what this forum was about, or maybe it would be better if I only posted when I agree with you.
No reason to gloat, you won, remember?
I do agree with Glenn that if someone is assaulting you with a gun, having one of your own would probably be your best defense.
I don't think anyone ever agrees with me 100% ;D
I'm not sure it's gloating. The fact is, National Parks here are pretty small. The National forest is the big one. I hardly go to the parks. This is a win for everywhere.
And yes...everyone here is entitled to their opinion...and most express it. As Don said the other day, this is family. Arguing in the family is also allowed. :-\
You certainly don't have to agree with me. Just don't take it personally when I fight back...because it isn't personal.
I saw that several in our church were carrying and thought it was bad taste. Also thought that they must be radicals, probably beat up on when kids. Then checking them out they are all very well adjusted, some are game wardens. They carry with the blessing of the church and are prepared to protect the congregation. I for one, after getting past my initial shallow thinking, am glad they carry. If I know anything in my 50 years it is when you are unprepared that is when the worse will happen. Same anywhere including National Parks.
Well....Monday came and went. No mass hysteria, no Soccer Moms running in uncontrollable terror, no Suicides..Just a quite peaceful walk through the National Park.
Now. a hundred mile drive back to the farm and I can take it off.
(https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/A-BOY-AND-HIS-SMALL-PUPPY.jpg)
This beard thing around here is really beginning to freak me out a little. I know common sense would dictate that it was simply a way to hide double-chins and dewlaps, but I can't help but suspect that it's really something much, much more sinister. :-\
;D
I've had a beard of one type or another for about 40 years. It began as a way to save on the trouble of shaving. Nothing too sinister. But that may just be me.
It started as a mustache around 1965, progressed to sideburns about 1970...got trimmed back to mustache only when I was with the state, then about 1990, became a beard and I will probably go to my grave with it.
It hides lots of things but.....you don't have to trim it every morning ;D and, it keeps my face warm.
I shaved my mustache ??? once and discovered I didn't have an upper lip. Started growing it back the next day. Heaven only knows what's missing under the beard.
Oh...I forgot about that little 4 year stint with no hair or beard or mustache. I may have been traumatized and need the beard for security.
If I did the math right at 10 minutes per day in a lifetime it amounts to around another 6 months of life. I can take a six month vacation and not lose a day. or spend it working and amass a small fortune. [ouch]
Likely several thousand dollars worth of razors, shavers, aftershave, styptic pencils. The intimidation factor has to be worth something. The wife can spend much more time in the bathroom. gottogo
It looks like all in all, a beard simply leads to a better quality of life..... [waiting]
No use trying to convince us different..... [deadhorse]
What he said. :)
peternap, I was lookin' at that mean Blackhawk you're totin' in the photo, and it occurs to me that you may have misunderstood something...
It's "National Park".
Not "JURASSIC Park".
:D
Quote from: RainDog on February 24, 2010, 02:04:25 PM
peternap, I was lookin' at that mean Blackhawk you're totin' in the photo, and it occurs to me that you may have misunderstood something...
It's "National Park".
Not "JURASSIC Park".
:D
The Blackhawk is my "Little Gun: ;D
That's a Magnum Research BFR in 45/70
I also have one in 45LC/410 that I rechambered to Causell/410
I wanted to be sure it was visable c*
(https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/b1-1.jpg)
(https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/day4.jpg)
(https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/IMG_1870-640x480.jpg)
I know I'm not supposed to covet, but...
Gonna do it anyway. ;)
Hmmm...
When I let the Marine Corps I traveled from State or National Park to the next across the US. It never occurred to me that there were rules AGAINST open carry, perhaps becuase I had been told by a Sheriff that as long as I was open carrying I was ok and of course having been raised in Canada (serious anti-gun laws) I assumed that was the rule across the US.
When in MO at a state or national park I was setting up camp for the night and the park ranger came by. He saw my .38 on my hip and began to chat me up. During the course of our conversation he finally popped the question: Would you mind accompanying me on my rounds this evening? We've had a ration of crimes lately and a murder not too far from here. I would appreciate your company if it isn't too much to ask?"
Of course I complied and we talked about the problem of crimes in parks -- which are not uncommon at all.
To be honest, my short hair (High and Tight) gave away my military background (at least at that time it did) and I was minding my own business (as usual) but I had no idea that what I was doing might be considered illegal much less scare anyone. In fact, I've found it's quite the opposite.
Do the police scare you when they are carrying? Does little Johnny cry when the police come by and are carrying? Is he crying becuase of the gun? Or would he like to see it?
As for the City, I have a concealed carry license BECAUSE of the city. If I didn't live in one I wouldn't worry about it.
Lastly, I find that those who are afraid of someone who is not obviously a policeman carrying a side arm are usually the most misinformed and uneducated about their American Rights and that law abiding gun owners openly carrying aren't the problem nor is the practice of protecting oneself.
Criminals will be criminals and they won't carry openly most often -- and won't abide by some law that infringes on your right to Keep and Bear arms. In fact, they would prefer that you did not and could not carry becuase it would make their job (of robbing you) much easier.
I'm sorry for the rant but honestly, it's that kind of "it scares people" nonsense that gets my goat.
Lastly, I have had at least 4 times in my life experienced the benefits of carrying openly. None of which involved drawing, much less firing, my side arm (not that I couldn't or don't know how).
1. The park incident above
2. A friend of mine and I pulled up to a gas station around 3am in the middle of the country, in an area we thought it best not to hang around in, but we were in need of fuel. We stopped the car, and as we got out holstered our side arms (me a 6" barreled Ruger Blackhawk .357 magnum and Rick a .40 S&W). Behind the station were two cars with a groups of young kids wearing clothes that suggested they might be gang types. We walked into the station to get some coke, chips, gum etc were met by a nervous looking clerk. As we approached the counter she looked outside and saw the two cars leaving, smiled, said 'thank you' and began to ring our order up. I asked "I'm sorry?" And she replied "Those kids were really making me nervous but they saw you two and left". We pumped our gas and moved on.
3. I walked into a gas station around 3:30am on my way to a cell tower to repair a radio that was failing. I needed some junk food and tobacco. When I walked in I didn't even notice the young man in the back of the store and just walked in, got my coke, chips and approached the counter. I was wearing my Ruger Vaquero .45LC with 5" barrel. It's a big old fashioned single action pistol that you'd expect to see in the western movies and not on some guys hip at 3:30 in the morning at a plaid pantry :) But that's me sometimes. Anyway, I noticed someone leaving the store as I got to the counter and the clerk said "Thanks!". I asked what for and he pointed right at my .45 and said "You walked in and that guy took one look at that big pistol on your hip and be-lined for the door!". I told the clerk I was sorry for scaring him off -- still clueless -- and the clerk said "No, you don't understand! He was casing the store for about 10 minutes. Wasn't buying anything at all and I was afraid he was just trying to get the courage up to rob me! Then you walked in with that big pistol in plain view and his eyes went as big as saucers and he ran out of here. THANK YOU!
4. I was driving across the US and in desperate need of some sleep. I found a park to stop in, pitched my tent and decided to take a short walk before going to sleep. As I began to walk I noticed some kids partying not too far away. They were very noisy and racing motorcycles around etc. Clearly disturbing other campers in the park but no one was doing anything about it. Two came racing by me, a little closely and not too many yards afterward turned around and slowly drove back to the party. They had both nodded at me when they drove back as if to say "I'm sorry". Shortly after-wards the kids all packed up and left. It was a peaceful night in the park.
There are more but this is the norm I have experienced and I've openly carried for over 20 years no. I also conceal (legally) when I feel like it.
I'm not a gun nut, I'm just a Marine who believes in his right to keep and bear arms and whom thinks all American's should respect that right. They should also stop thinking law abiding citizens are the problem, we're not. It's the guy with the sawed off shotgun under his coat in need of a crack fix that you need to worry about -- and if you are lucky, someone like me will be nearby and he will get scared and change his mind.
Quote from: OlJarhead on February 24, 2010, 05:26:50 PM
Hmmm...
When I let the Marine Corps I traveled from State or National Park to the next across the US. It never occurred to me that there were rules AGAINST open carry, perhaps becuase I had been told by a Sheriff that as long as I was open carrying I was ok and of course having been raised in Canada (serious anti-gun laws) I assumed that was the rule across the US.
When in MO at a state or national park I was setting up camp for the night and the park ranger came by. He saw my .38 on my hip and began to chat me up. During the course of our conversation he finally popped the question: Would you mind accompanying me on my rounds this evening? We've had a ration of crimes lately and a murder not too far from here. I would appreciate your company if it isn't too much to ask?"
Of course I complied and we talked about the problem of crimes in parks -- which are not uncommon at all.
To be honest, my short hair (High and Tight) gave away my military background (at least at that time it did) and I was minding my own business (as usual) but I had no idea that what I was doing might be considered illegal much less scare anyone. In fact, I've found it's quite the opposite.
Do the police scare you when they are carrying? Does little Johnny cry when the police come by and are carrying? Is he crying becuase of the gun? Or would he like to see it?
As for the City, I have a concealed carry license BECAUSE of the city. If I didn't live in one I wouldn't worry about it.
Lastly, I find that those who are afraid of someone who is not obviously a policeman carrying a side arm are usually the most misinformed and uneducated about their American Rights and that law abiding gun owners openly carrying aren't the problem nor is the practice of protecting oneself.
Criminals will be criminals and they won't carry openly most often -- and won't abide by some law that infringes on your right to Keep and Bear arms. In fact, they would prefer that you did not and could not carry becuase it would make their job (of robbing you) much easier.
I'm sorry for the rant but honestly, it's that kind of "it scares people" nonsense that gets my goat.
Lastly, I have had at least 4 times in my life experienced the benefits of carrying openly. None of which involved drawing, much less firing, my side arm (not that I couldn't or don't know how).
1. The park incident above
2. A friend of mine and I pulled up to a gas station around 3am in the middle of the country, in an area we thought it best not to hang around in, but we were in need of fuel. We stopped the car, and as we got out holstered our side arms (me a 6" barreled Ruger Blackhawk .357 magnum and Rick a .40 S&W). Behind the station were two cars with a groups of young kids wearing clothes that suggested they might be gang types. We walked into the station to get some coke, chips, gum etc were met by a nervous looking clerk. As we approached the counter she looked outside and saw the two cars leaving, smiled, said 'thank you' and began to ring our order up. I asked "I'm sorry?" And she replied "Those kids were really making me nervous but they saw you two and left". We pumped our gas and moved on.
3. I walked into a gas station around 3:30am on my way to a cell tower to repair a radio that was failing. I needed some junk food and tobacco. When I walked in I didn't even notice the young man in the back of the store and just walked in, got my coke, chips and approached the counter. I was wearing my Ruger Vaquero .45LC with 5" barrel. It's a big old fashioned single action pistol that you'd expect to see in the western movies and not on some guys hip at 3:30 in the morning at a plaid pantry :) But that's me sometimes. Anyway, I noticed someone leaving the store as I got to the counter and the clerk said "Thanks!". I asked what for and he pointed right at my .45 and said "You walked in and that guy took one look at that big pistol on your hip and be-lined for the door!". I told the clerk I was sorry for scaring him off -- still clueless -- and the clerk said "No, you don't understand! He was casing the store for about 10 minutes. Wasn't buying anything at all and I was afraid he was just trying to get the courage up to rob me! Then you walked in with that big pistol in plain view and his eyes went as big as saucers and he ran out of here. THANK YOU!
4. I was driving across the US and in desperate need of some sleep. I found a park to stop in, pitched my tent and decided to take a short walk before going to sleep. As I began to walk I noticed some kids partying not too far away. They were very noisy and racing motorcycles around etc. Clearly disturbing other campers in the park but no one was doing anything about it. Two came racing by me, a little closely and not too many yards afterward turned around and slowly drove back to the party. They had both nodded at me when they drove back as if to say "I'm sorry". Shortly after-wards the kids all packed up and left. It was a peaceful night in the park.
There are more but this is the norm I have experienced and I've openly carried for over 20 years no. I also conceal (legally) when I feel like it.
I'm not a gun nut, I'm just a Marine who believes in his right to keep and bear arms and whom thinks all American's should respect that right. They should also stop thinking law abiding citizens are the problem, we're not. It's the guy with the sawed off shotgun under his coat in need of a crack fix that you need to worry about -- and if you are lucky, someone like me will be nearby and he will get scared and change his mind.
Great Post!
People like you are why we are able to force reform in our gun laws.
I'm not sure what a gun nut is but I suppose I am one. I own a lot of them, build them, collect them, wear them and shoot them.
I don't live in a City and never have. I suppose Country people think anyone that disagrees with them are City Folks.
I do respect the right to disagree with me. I listen to the arguments and if I don't like them, I just shrug it off. There isn't a lot of middle ground with me.
For those that feel as strongly against guns as I do for them, they can do as I do. Become a lobbyist, spend seven or eight thousand a year out of their own pocket and dedicate 3 months out of the year trying to convince people that I don't care much for, to vote my way. Then try to catch up on the work I should have been doing after the fiasco.
I need to get my tractor and equipment ready for spring, I need to do maintenance work to two houses..I'd like to go fishing and Hunt Turkeys when the season opens.
But I'll be fighting with the State Forest people instead since they are proposing half of what the law requires.
But the Rural bills that needed work (this year they needed to be killed. No good bills were introduced) are taken care of, I can watch the gun bills VCDL is spearheading. They are passing one after another so I guess what we're doing is working.
Gun nut? Hmmm.
Well, for sure if you own this, you are a gun nut....
(http://www.moviephotoforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/mangrill.jpeg)
And if you are unsure, have a look here...
... you ever seriously thought about dabbing on a little Hoppe's #9 before going out on a date.
...you buy some checkering tools, you checker all your gun stocks, and then start on the bedposts.
...you cannot recall how many firearms you own.
...you buy a gun that's just like that other gun you have except the barrel is 1/2" shorter (or longer).
...you buy a gun at a shop only to find out you used to own it a couple of years ago.
...you know 12 different names for one caliber of cartridge.
...you ever clean a gun that hasn't been shot in the week since you cleaned it last.
...you consider naming your unborn child Winchester or Remington.
...you purchased two Glocks and two Sigs just to see which brand was better.
...your drive to work is filled with reverie about why Ed's Red actually works.
...you strip all the paint off our car and refinish it with cold blue.
...you ever bought ammo in a caliber for which you have no gun, because you thought some day you MIGHT get a gun in that caliber.
...your collection of American Rifleman back issues, Gun Digests and reloading manuals cost you a premium the last time you moved.
...you have more than one gun that "kills on both ends."
...you buy high capacity magazines for a gun you have not bought yet.
...you take your guns out of the safe each night and handle them, just so you can wipe them off before putting them away.
...your mother-in-law asks what new gun junk you want for Christmas this year.
...you see TV footage of the war in Bosnia and wish you were there to pick up the brass.
...you drive 300 miles just to ogle (and fire) (H&K H-K) HK-MP5s (and Stens, Uzis, BMGs and whatever else shows up at Knob Creek).
...you keep a loaded gun hidden in every room in the house, including the bathroom and kitchen, "just in case," and then keep one on you at all times just in case someone breaks in while you're in the hallway.
...you consider it unpatriotic not to own at least one .45 and one .22.
...you named your pocket pistol "Little Guy" and your 12 gauge "Big Jake."
...you own reloading dies for calibers that you do not shoot.
...you tape American Shooter so you can pause, reverse and fast forward to do a complete analysis of the show.
...you understand Smith & Wesson's model numbers.
...you ever bought two brands of the same weight and type of bullet, just to see if one "shot better."
...you keep a collection of different cartridges at your place of work as a "conversation piece."
...you take your wife on vacation to a gun show for your 10th Anniversary and she is as excited to go as you are.
...you ever had to explain, "It's NOT the same gun, it's a variation!"
All the above from....
http://130.94.182.159/gun_nut.htm
Peter, what nefarious things is the Forest Service up to?
Quote from: MountainDon on February 24, 2010, 07:03:01 PM
Peter, what nefarious things is the Forest Service up to?
Long story but the Readers Digest Condensed Version....
Currently the Va Dept of Forestry prohibits guns except certain areas during hunting season, on Department lands..
When Bob McDonnell (Our new Governor) was Attorney General, Senator Ken Cuccinelli (Our new Attorney General) requested an AG Opinion (At our request) to see if the Department had the authority to make that rule.
The answer was NO. They could not prohibit guns either Open Or Concealed.
Tim Kaine (Our idiot ex Governor and the New Head of the DNC, said a POX on those evil gun people. You don't have to change the rules while I'm Governor.
Fast Forward...We worked our butts off and got Cuccinelli and McDonnell elected and it's pay up time. The Department said "Oh Sh%$, we'd better do something" so they set the rulemaking process in gear.
The problem is, they only want to allow CHP holders to carry. Clearly illegal. There was so much uproar when I published the proposal from the State Register, that the number of emails sent in crashed their web site. It's back up now.
They have 90 days to take comments and hearings The first will nbe on March 4th.
I set up a special page to keep my articles about it in.
http://news.oldva.org/?page_id=3709
Now to make it harder, the NRA figured CHP was the easier route so they aren't addressing the Open carry issue. That's normal for them and we far out number them in Va.
Peternap, I'd like to say thanks for the time and money youve put in to the efforts of protecting our gun rights. I just recently paid another year to the NRA,but thats it. I will regret one day for not doing more now. The older I get the more important I think it is,so maybe Im thinkin its time to do more. Where do I start?
Darrell
So it's the VA Forestry Dept, not the National Forest?
In NM we have mostly National Forests (USDA). Our cabin is surrounded by National Forest and National Recreation Area (also USDA). There's also a lot of BLM and some state lands, but the NF and BLM are the biggies.
Quote from: devildog on February 24, 2010, 09:08:34 PM
Peternap, I'd like to say thanks for the time and money youve put in to the efforts of protecting our gun rights. I just recently paid another year to the NRA,but thats it. I will regret one day for not doing more now. The older I get the more important I think it is,so maybe Im thinkin its time to do more. Where do I start?
Darrell
Welcome to the war Darrell. Actually, it isn't. Gunowners are the most powerful lobby in Virginia.
What can you do?
First, sign up for VCDL's Alerts. You don't have to be a member and they are free.http://www.vcdl.org/
Second, join VCDL. It was VCDL that gave us "Shall Issue", Full Preemption and hundreds of other bills.
Third, start checking Old Virginia. That's not a true gun area. We are a Rural Affairs organization and act in support of VCDL unless the Gun Bill is a rural matter...Like the State Forest problem. http://news.oldva.org/
Open Carry.org http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/ is a good source for information but more geared to Northern Va, Tidewater and Richmond. Still, the most active Virginia group on the net.
Last, organize your friends in Hillsville. There are little dinner groups all over the state that get together once a month for an open carry dinner. We have had from ten to a hundred twenty five people come and do it on the second Tuesday of the month.
Since I spend a lot of time in Richmond, I go with them on a regular basis and I've had lots of them come to Victoria for our breakfasts.
Quote from: MountainDon on February 24, 2010, 09:18:08 PM
So it's the VA Forestry Dept, not the National Forest?
In NM we have mostly National Forests (USDA). Our cabin is surrounded by National Forest and National Recreation Area (also USDA). There's also a lot of BLM and some state lands, but the NF and BLM are the biggies.
Yep state Don. We have mostly National Forest too and there are some off season issues with them also. That;s tied in with Our Game Commission and if we get the Forestry people on track, the same law will put DGIF in line and that will cure the National Forest problems too.
Well best of all luck to you on that!