I am really not for/against Newt Gingrich but he makes some pretty good food for thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZiw3qVdFzw
I'm not going to say he's not right because he is. But the question we should be asking is- Why do they hate the United States?
Control? Power? Apparently they have their own agenda which is not even close to humanity.
You think they hate the UK as well?
Islam is intrinsically an intolerant and violent religion which has failed to evolve over time or undergo any renaissance as have Judaism and Christianity. Combine that with the deep envy natural to a culture which has failed to thrive for one that has, and you've got the formula.
I know. I get no PC points for saying that.
I really don't think it makes any difference where you are at unless you are at their house and even then you better play by their rules.
Quote from: ScottA on February 01, 2010, 06:15:00 PM
You think they hate the UK as well?
They pretty much hate everybody. Hindus, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, atheists, etc.
The US and Israel are comparatively successful, and they are not, so we get the brunt of their angst.
I do not htink anything has changed in the last 4 years but our national debt.
I don't think anythings changed in the last 1500 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades)
I'm with Scott.
Why do they hate us? I have no idea....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
http://www.merip.org/mer/mer215/215_peterson.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xhDkzH9z80 Shock and awe-shucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_plkTjxpJc&feature=related Desert Storm
Also "The Highway of Death" We destroyed the entire retreating Iraqi army after they left Kuwait. From the air of course. After we told them we didn't care what they did with Kuwait for drilling under Iraq (per April Glaspie)
"April Glaspie: I think I understand this. I have lived here for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that and our opinion is that you should have this opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait." http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m45924&hd=&size=1&l=e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpdaQRGSv0k The highway of death where we shot the entire retreating army and all of the civilians in the back....
Other than those few instances and lots of others I can't think of any reason they would not love us.... [waiting]
Quote from: glenn kangiser on February 01, 2010, 11:41:25 PM
I'm with Scott.
Why do they hate us? I have no idea....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
http://www.merip.org/mer/mer215/215_peterson.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xhDkzH9z80 Shock and awe-shucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_plkTjxpJc&feature=related Desert Storm
Also "The Highway of Death" We destroyed the entire retreating Iraqi army after they left Kuwait. From the air of course. After we told them we didn't care what they did with Kuwait for drilling under Iraq (per April Glaspie)
"April Glaspie: I think I understand this. I have lived here for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that and our opinion is that you should have this opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait." http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m45924&hd=&size=1&l=e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpdaQRGSv0k The highway of death where we shot the entire retreating army and all of the civilians in the back....
Other than those few instances and lots of others I can't think of any reason they would not love us.... [waiting]
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against America is all America's fault...
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against India is all India's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against France is all France's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against Ingushetia is all Ingushetia's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against Pakistan is all Pakistan's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against Thailand is all Thailand's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against Russia is all Russia's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against the Philippines is all the Philippine's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against Israel is all Israel's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against Spain is all Spain's fault.
Just as Islamic terrorism in or against Nigeria is all Nigeria's fault.
Chechnya, Indonesia, England, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Dagestan, Turkey, Morocco, Germany, Nepal, Morocco, Argentina,
ETC ETC ETC
Blame everyone but the perpetrator.
And please remember that the horrors of Islamic terrorism aren't mistakes, aberrations, or unwanted consequences of their actions in service of some other goal, the horrors are the
INTENTION. They
want to kill and maim as many innocents as possible.
But sure, it's not the fault of Islamic terrorists, their supporters and sympathizers. No way.
Blame the victims.
Standard Republican rhetoric: fear them, FEAR THEM. I think Newt's grand children will live to be rich old farts and never even come close to being injured or killed by enemy combatants, unless they start targeting private golf courses. What Newt's really saying is pour even more money into defense, thereby protecting his grandchildren and yours, by putting the Republicans back in power.
Personally I believe Muslims hate us because their religion tells them to hate us because we're not Muslim, and that means they must kill or enslave us as dictated in the Koran.
Quote from: pagancelt on February 02, 2010, 08:21:28 AM
Personally I believe Muslims hate us because their religion tells them to hate us because we're not Muslim, and that means they must kill or enslave us as dictated in the Koran.
Many Muslims are us, Americans. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims in this world, I doubt they are all prejudicial to other countries or religions. I disagree that even most want to kill or enslave anyone that isn't Muslim, or to follow Islam you have to want to kill and enslave.
Quote from: Squirl on February 02, 2010, 09:05:12 AM
Quote from: pagancelt on February 02, 2010, 08:21:28 AM
Personally I believe Muslims hate us because their religion tells them to hate us because we're not Muslim, and that means they must kill or enslave us as dictated in the Koran.
Many Muslims are us, Americans. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims in this world, I doubt they are all prejudicial to other countries or religions. I disagree that even most want to kill or enslave anyone that isn't Muslim, or to follow Islam you have to want to kill and enslave.
Saw that coming.
You know that pagancelt didn't mean the masses of Muslim-by-birth who self-identify as Muslim but that selectively follow the teachings of the Quran and Hadiths according to what is reasonable in modern society or follow them not at all. We were discussing radical Muslims who hate us, and it is absolutely certain that the vast, overwhelming majority of strict-practicing adherents of radical Islam worldwide hate "us", meaning Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, ad infinitum.
In the glorious "New Caliphate" that radical Islamists dream of and work toward, by the way, all non-Muslims will either convert to Islam or pay Jizya, a tax on non-Muslims, which is intended to remind those of other religions that they have been subjugated by Islam and exist in third-class status .
Or yeah, they'll be killed.
It's not what Gingrich says that really matters, it's what
they themselves say.
After all that's happened, maybe we should listen.
Squirl,
RainDog picked up what I really meant, sorry I wasn't clearer.
We are talking about a small faction within the greater Muslim religious community and these are the guys who espouse sharia law and want to lop off the hands of thieves, collapse stone walls on gays, stone alleged female adulteress to death, etc., all of which happens in countries with Islamic law. These men are the adherents of strict interpretation of the Koran and repressive Islamic law and in their religious schools they teach their students to believe the Koran tells them to kill all infidels and Allah's rewards for martyrs, and if you read the Koran it actually does order this, however, most Muslims have accepted that what worked over one thousand years ago when the Koran was written doesn't really work today. This is the same reason why the Catholic Church isn't still running around torturing and burning witches. What worked in the middle ages will not work today.
Not every Christian who believes abortion is a sin and akin to murder will run out and kill an abortion doctor to save unborn babies, but some have. Here lies our problem with Islam, some fundamentalists in the Muslim religion want to apply their strict interpretation of the Koran to the whole world and follow the Koran to the letter. This means they would happily kill all non Muslims as dictated by Allah through his prophet Muhammad. The result of this religious "education" is suicide bombers, IEDs, and the rhetoric from Mullahs and Imams telling us how they'll use our laws protecting freedom to destroy us; perfect fodder for conservative Republicans to whip up a good heaping dose of FEAR. Throw in some footage of Islamic law being applied and the circle of fear closes.
My point earlier is Newt and his ilk are playing on the fears of people to make them believe a very small group of individuals is far more powerful and threatening than they truly are for personal political gain and the financial enrichment of defense contractors. I personally have no fear of dying in a terrorist attack, and I lived in NYC during 9-11-01, nor do I worry about any of my family dying in such a manner.
I was going to stay out of this but pagan and raindog make some good points.
It's the extremists in any group who create problems.
That goes for Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Republicans, Democrats, tree huggers, etc. etc.
Thanks for the clarification. I just didn't want to demonize an entire people because of the actions of a few.
If we followed the Bible radically there would be many people stoned to death, etc.
I guess that does not make all Christians terrorists, eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
Quote from: glenn kangiser on February 02, 2010, 11:30:04 PM
If we followed the Bible radically there would be many people stoned to death, etc.
I guess that does not make all Christians terrorists, eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
Only if there was someone living on earth without sin.