Hello, all -
Well, we seem to be back in business after a long, frustrating, WET summer. I will resist the temptation to bore you all with the details of how we've gotten to this point - saving that for an actual house thread, which actually looks like it may be coming soon!
I'm just wondering if anyone has had any trouble with sonotubes - the actual name brand ones - as opposed to any other forms? We poured sixteen piers (48" deep) yesterday; 14 were a brand called "ecoform" and the other two were sonotubes, just because the supply yard ran out of the ecoforms. We noticed that the sonotubes were a lot lighter, and not waxed, but didn't think much about it. Set them all up identically, braced them all identically, identical footers, etc. We killed ourselves bracing them all the morning of the pour, to be sure they hadn't been out collecting moisture all night. They were dry, dry, dry. While we were pouring #8, the two sonotubes, full of concrete, dissolved. Just melted away. Sickening...and of course, expensive.
We rushed to turn eight nice siding boards and a bunch of scrap into impromptu forms, and - after one of those burst apart, too - all is well. The 14 ecoforms are just fine, and the other two will do the job. But shoot - what a lot of panic, hard work, and expense! I've never heard of this happening to anybody else. The guy running the pumper truck assured us that we had done everything just right, and that this happens with sonotubes - the brand specifically - all the time. He wasn't a bit surprised, and rattled off a litany of spectacular failures he's witnessed that made ours look like small potatoes.
Do you think he's right? I just thought that if this is even a remote likelihood, it might be helpful for anybody out there about to pour piers. I wouldn't wish this stress, mess, or expense on anybody!
I've not heard of that until now. Perhaps it had something to do with the WET summer and improper storage? Have you tried contacting the manufacturer to see if they have anything to say?
New one to me but failure is almost evident in everything made now days. You might have just gotten one that passed by the inspection process. If you had a footing already and was pouring the sonotube on top of that (including the extended rebar) I always back fill around the tubes. Even if they would bust they are supported by the dirt. Glad you was able to salvage the work.
Counterfeit Sonotubes? In this economy who knows. ???
I used the Quick Crete brand of tubes to pour my piers that were 8' tall.
After pouring the forms soaked through at the spiral seam and started to bulge pretty bad in places towards the bottom of the tubes. I was pretty nervous, but they ended up holding. With the tubes being 8' tall there would of been quite a bit of pressure at the bottom.
Sonotubes aren't much, I've never had them collapse during a pour but have had them collapse inward when we got smart, set and backfilled them the day before a pour, of course it rained ::).
Quote from: Redoverfarm on December 02, 2009, 04:46:41 PM
New one to me but failure is almost evident in everything made now days. You might have just gotten one that passed by the inspection process. If you had a footing already and was pouring the sonotube on top of that (including the extended rebar) I always back fill around the tubes. Even if they would bust they are supported by the dirt. Glad you was able to salvage the work.
Thanks. Yes, the tubes were installed on top of rather massive chimney block footings, but we weren't supposed to backfill until the inspector got up there. We called him and told him what was going on, and he said he'd seen Ron's work and was sure everything was fine. We're very grateful to have a reasonable inspector. We're also grateful to have ended up with a foundation rather than sixteen big piles of concrete.
Quote from: MountainDon on December 02, 2009, 04:42:43 PM
I've not heard of that until now. Perhaps it had something to do with the WET summer and improper storage? Have you tried contacting the manufacturer to see if they have anything to say?
Thanks, Don. You know, I hadn't stopped to think that they may have been stored improperly BEFORE we got them. Obviously all our caution once we got them made not the slightest difference. I don't know - I was hopping mad yesterday, but Ron says the manufacturer will certainly just say that we got them wet, or the mix was too wet, or some such. It did end up costing us money we certainly can't spare, in extra time, extra concrete, and of course those nice siding boards (plus a gazillion 6d nails!), but he's probably right that it would only raise our blood pressure and lead to nothing. Grrr...
Very odd that nobody here of all places has heard of this, and the concrete guys acted like it happens all the time. Well, we will just try to be grateful that it's all carpentry from here on out. That root cellar notion? Forget that. NO MORE CONCRETE!
We had a similar issue with one of our tubes. I figured that I must not have had it plumb and level(swear we did) but now maybe it was not us but the product. We got lucky and noticed it before it caved over too far. We were able to put in some very quick bracing and get it back in place. Did not look as pretty as the others but stayed stroing. Good thing was it was not a corner so had a bit more that it could vary and not mess it all up.
I read a tip in FH. For making smaller footings in sandy soil, dig your hole, cut a strip of sheetrock the height of your hole, make a cut every 12" through only one side until you can fold it into a box the same height as your hole. Tape the open corner, backfill, metal and pour. Haven't done it, but would be cheaper than sonos, and easier to calculate yardage of concrete. Rain would still be a problem though.
There are Sonotubes and then there are Sonotubes ... some are built just strong enough to be "cores" for fabric shipping and handling, such as for carpets .... others are built strong enough to support a concrete pour 20' high ... and several days of rain beforehand.:
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http://www.sonoco.com/sonoco/Products/Concrete_forms/
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I wonder if the product you used was mismarked?? Perhaps there was a quality issue?? I'm am sure Sonoco would appreciate a phone call if you could take the time. I used to work for them .... over 50 years ago ... they had a lot of integrity back then, and I would expect that hasn't changed.