http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi...n/query/z?c111:H.R.+1388:
People this is just scary.
HR 1388, will hit the House floor on Tuesday.It is called the Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act (The Give Act.) The House is scheduled to Rule this week. Sponsored by Democrat Representative Carolyn McCarthy (NY), Education and Labor Committee. The objective is to reauthorize and reform the national service laws.
Democrat Rep. McCarthy is sponsoring the bill with 25 co-sponsors, ALL Democrats, including Charlie Rangel. Need I say more.
Quote
From the Misc. section, #6104: (6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.
MANDATORY! 3 years of service for all students.
The program talks about earning "educational awards" via this service.
What I suspect is the plan:
(1) Establish this "national service" as a way to get federal student aid for college;
(2) Soon to be followed by a reduction/elimination of other forms of federal student aid;
(3) Thus mandating a successful term of service as a condition for the non-wealthy getting through college. This term of service will take place under conditions where political orientation will be closely examined, indoctrination will be thorough, and the work will be for the benefit of Leftist organization.
I predict that this will be seen as a way to ensure that only the politically-correct will have access to professional careers. (more at link)
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From the site: The Co-Sponsors
Rep Altmire, Jason [PA-4] - 3/12/2009
Rep Andrews, Robert E. [NJ-1] - 3/9/2009
Rep Clarke, Yvette D. [NY-11] - 3/12/2009
Rep Courtney, Joe [CT-2] - 3/9/2009
Rep Fattah, Chaka [PA-2] - 3/12/2009
Rep Grijalva, Raul M. [AZ-7] - 3/9/2009
Rep Hare, Phil [IL-17] - 3/9/2009
Rep Hinojosa, Ruben [TX-15] - 3/9/2009
Rep Hirono, Mazie K. [HI-2] - 3/9/2009
Rep Holt, Rush D. [NJ-12] - 3/12/2009
Rep Kildee, Dale E. [MI-5] - 3/9/2009
Rep Klein, Ron [FL-22] - 3/12/2009
Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. [OH-10] - 3/12/2009
Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. [NY-14] - 3/12/2009
Rep Miller, George [CA-7] - 3/9/2009
Rep Payne, Donald M. [NJ-10] - 3/12/2009
Rep Polis, Jared [CO-2] - 3/9/2009
Rep Rangel, Charles B. [NY-15] - 3/12/2009
Rep Sablan, Gregorio [MP] - 3/9/2009
Rep Sestak, Joe [PA-7] - 3/9/2009
Rep Shea-Porter, Carol [NH-1] - 3/12/2009
Rep Tonko, Paul D. [NY-21] - 3/9/2009
Rep Van Hollen, Chris [MD-8] - 3/12/2009
Rep Welch, Peter [VT] - 3/12/2009
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. [CA-6] - 3/12/2009
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Part of Title VI says:
SEC. 6107. POWERS OF COMMISSION.
(a) Hearings and Sessions- The Commission may, for the purpose of carrying out this title, hold public hearings, sit and act at times and places, take testimony, and receive evidence as the Commission considers appropriate.
So they are going to "try" us? Receiving evidence? Act as they consider appropriate??
(b) Powers of Members and Agents- Any member or agent of the Commission may, if authorized by the Commission, take any action which the Commission is authorized to take by this section.
And they may deputize others to act in their behalf?
(c) Obtaining Official Data- Upon request of the Chairperson, the head of any department or agency shall furnish information to the Commission that the Commission deems necessary to enable it to carry out this title.
Privacy laws do not apply to 0bama youth.
(d) Physical Facilities and Equipment- The Architect of the Capitol, in consultation with the appropriate entities in the legislative branch, shall locate and provide suitable facilities and equipment for the operation of the Commission on a nonreimbursable basis.
They can take your city hall, your HOUSE, your food, or your weapons ladies and gentlemen!
Violating unreasonable search or seizure provisions in the constitution. But then democrats don't respect the constitution.
It looks like child slavery to me. I think states should be mandated to OFFER such programs, and that perhaps a one year community service obligation as part of high school curriculum is not to much to ask from a graduate of public schools. BUT to mandate that a cHILD work without pay, ( lots of children don't ever go to college) or even WITH pay is illegal in the US. I think they do it in China though.
Quote from: StinkerBell on March 16, 2009, 07:57:59 PM
...But then democrats don't respect the constitution.
Stinkerbelle, this legislation is horrible. But, is it fair to only point the finger at democrats here? It seems to me that neither side has been respecting the constitution for some time now.
Oh I equally hate both sides, I am not prejudice I hate equally! ;D
I am happy to post why I hate Republicans.
My kids and grandkids will not be running around in a Hitleresque militant blueshirt Gestapo type group chanting Alpha-Omega if I have anything to do with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onXd8iH3OVQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSWt7hOYYLY&feature=related
Someone wondered how the 'government' was going to have enough people to check out farms and gardens for proper 'safety'
Yes, we can !
We are the Obama blue shirts
Let me get this straight: you think it is outrageous to require a public service committment from college students before they are entitled to suck on the government teat? The only thing mandatory about that is that people with their hand out should no longer expect Uncle Sam to pony up tuition with no strings attached. Don't like it? Don't take the money!
I think this is designed as an alternative for people looking for money for college that don't want to serve in the military. This is a great program for religious groups that do not support violence. I know many very religious friends who would be happy to serve the country or community in exchange for college funds, but they just didn't have it in them to kill people or they did not qualify for military service.
The new volunteerism is mandatory.
Yup - I didn't see any opt out allowance in the requirement. Heil Obama. Rahm Emanuel is a dual Israeli citizen and controls who meets with Obama for the most part. Did Hitler do the genocide on his own or did they sell their own people out?
Mandatory service is not freedom. No one has proven that government robots will improve AmeriKa. We are losing it.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on March 17, 2009, 07:44:46 AM
Let me get this straight: you think it is outrageous to require a public service committment from college students before they are entitled to suck on the government teat? The only thing mandatory about that is that people with their hand out should no longer expect Uncle Sam to pony up tuition with no strings attached. Don't like it? Don't take the money!
No one has offered me any money (I wouldn't take it if they did) and most college students get loans that they have to pay back for years and years. For the most part, the raping of the American Financial system has made a lot of these college educations useless anyway.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on March 17, 2009, 07:44:46 AM
Let me get this straight: you think it is outrageous to require a public service committment from college students before they are entitled to suck on the government teat? The only thing mandatory about that is that people with their hand out should no longer expect Uncle Sam to pony up tuition with no strings attached. Don't like it? Don't take the money!
And that is the argument they're counting on to gain public support for this, similar to requiring welfare recipients to perform some work, even if it's only picking up garbage in the park.
Where will the service be performed? Who will be training them, and what will they be trained to do, exactly? Will the training be a "boot camp" setting?
We may like to believe they'll be building cabins and trails in national forests like men did in the thirtees, but there may be a far more sinister agenda here.
Quote from: pagancelt on March 17, 2009, 11:33:26 AMWe may like to believe they'll be building cabins and trails in national forests like men did in the thirtees, but there may be a far more sinister agenda here.
Just because you hear hoof beats is no reason to think "Zebras!". I require evidence before I jump to conclusions.
My evidence is the long history of the actions of our government. It has quacked and waddled for so long I'm generally correct when I say "It's a duck!"
If you read the opening title, most of the clauses are already laws. They were passed in 1973 and 1990. They are being reauthorized. There is a reason this went to the floor and out of committee quickly, most of it is a reauthorization.
If he can get these lazy kids we have nowadays to do some work I say more power to him. Oh and good luck sucker. :P
I don't mean to keep breaking up my posts. I am just commenting as I have time to look at it. BTW. The link is broken and they changed the bill already.
Sec. 6104 is under Title VI CONGRESSIONAL COMMISSION ON CIVIC SERVICE.
The whole title only establishes a congressional commision to look into the possiblility. This is all just fluff to make it look like they are doing something without actually doing anything.
SEC. 6108. REPORTS.
(a) Interim Report- The Commission shall submit an interim report on its activities to the appropriate committees of Congress not later than 20 months after the date of the enactment of this title.
(b) Final Report-
(1) DEADLINE- The Commission shall submit a final report on its activities to the appropriate committees of Congress not later than 120 days after the submission of the interim report under subsection (a).
So this is a law to create a report due in two years. Then they may or may not even read the report.
Almost all other sections are already the law. This should pass easily because there is nothing new in it.
This is what Rahm Emmanuel thinks about it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0B7dOQwKm0&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Rahm+Emmanuel+bootcamp&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f&feature=player_embedded
So is it 3 years or 3 months?
...and lets hope we don't get all of the government we pay for.
The report on the consideration of the possibility of legislation is due in 24 months. Then the process starts all over again.
The mandatory service part seems only in the same context of military service. Once you sign up you must serve a mandatory minimum to receive the benefits. This is the same for the military yet it is still considered a voluntary army because nobody is forced to sign up.
Re: the dead link; use govtrack.us.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1388 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1388)
We have has much the same in operation since GWH Bush and his Thousand Points of Light. Clinton carried that forward under another name. Ditto under GW Bush.
A great portion of this bill addresses senior volunteerism; age 55 and above.
Another portion of the bill is to set up the study on the feasibility of extending the programs.Nothing is going to happen "tomorrow" Congress is great at authoring studies.
There is nothing wrong with promoting the idea of volunteerism. Much of the charitable work done in the world is performed by volunteers.
Anyone with worries or concerns about this proposed bill should write their representative and senators. Yes, I mentioned that again didn't I; because that is a part of the mechanism of government.
I do not like the idea of Mandatory service for all. Sure if you need money I can see the government saying we will pay for your education but you will work it off. Seems fair, but if a person does not need that, say they are the child of a farmer and will take over the farm for dad and will not be attending a university, then that person should not be mandated to serve. Slavery was a mandated service too.
I am still not clear on all the verbage of this idea.
Right, the idea that the government should say that everyone between certain ages must perform some mandatory service is wrong. What if one already volunteers through their church? Or what is one's family is involved in community service through something like Habitat for Humanity?
Ah, some are going to say, well alright. You'll get credit for that. The thing I find wrong with that is the last thing we need is another government department keeping track of the hours.
People should be encouraged to volunteer. However, the venue and the level of participation should be decided by the individual.
As far as schooling costs, as it is there are myriad ways of obtaining grants and scholarships as is. Our son went to a $28K a year college (late 1990's - early 2000's). We pitched in the equivalent state college amounts and the balance came from grants and scholarships. Plus a $6000 loan. If working in some volunteer position would earn credits towards college I see nothing wrong with that. I hope those would also count towards trade schools. Not everyone is college material, nor do all have to go to college. That everyone should go to college is a myth.
Isn't community service a punishment used for crime? hmm
It's sometimes offered as an alternative to a driving record or other things like time in jail, that's true. But many give to the community through things like volunteering at the monthly library book sale. There are also those unofficial volunteers I come across; people picking up trash along the local bosque hiking trails for example. They don't get paid or recognized.
The only mandatory service in America is when there is a draft. It may be random, but it is not a choice. It is not currently in effect. I have seen many high schools require mandatory community service to graduate. This is a choice because you can choose not to graduate or you can get your GED instead. I have never seen a national plan for mandatory service. Even the plans outlined to research are voluntary.
Don,
Most trade schools accept federal financial aid, I can't see why they wouldn't be included in the progam.
...or you could open your secret spy ring and take your cyanide pill while they are not looking thereby foiling them altogether.
Choose not to graduate or choose to get a GED? That makes it not mandatory? What if we don't like the agenda they are foisting on our children and our families.
German citizens thought things were just peachy in 1938. Where do we consider the government takeover of our children dangerous? After it is too late? By around 1945 most Germans realized there was a problem.
QuoteBy around 1945 most Germans realized there was a problem.
About the time the Americans showed up. Go figure. ???
As forwarded to me and I think it applies here.
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2...countries-die/
QuoteQuote:
Citizens won't bother to inform themselves about public policy, especially the details. Given the lack of influence of a single vote, it doesn't make sense for a non-specialist to invest the time. Olson says this is why we have a progressive income tax, obvious to all voters, and a lot of obscure loopholes that benefit the wealthy and influential. He notes that the benefits of Medicare and Medicaid to the old and the poor are publicized, not the fact that they are "implemented or administered in ways that resulted in large increases in income for prosperous physicians and other providers of medical care" because "the many smaller choices needed to implement these programs are influenced primarily by a minority of organized providers."
QuoteQuote:
"Great Britain, the major nation with the longest immunity from dictatorship, invasion, and revolution, has had in this century a lower rate of growth than other large, developed democracies. ... Britain has [a] powerful network of special-interest organizations. The number and power of its trade unions need no description. [Olson wrote this book just as Margaret Thatcher was coming to power.] The venerability and power of its professional associations is also striking. ... Britain also has a strong farmer's organization and a great many trade associations."
QuoteQuote:
Olson preempts the question of "How come the Swiss aren't poor given that they've had stability for so many centuries?" by looking at their constitution, which "makes it extremely difficult to pass new legislation. This makes it difficult for lobbies to get their way and thus greatly limits Switzerland's losses from special interest legislation."
...
It passed in the house today. [crz] Nothing to see here folks just move along by the way the white house puppy should arrive soon!
Crap... [waiting]
People, there is nothing wrong with this bill, which is just a reworking of existing statutes and service groups that have been around since at least 1990, when Bush Daddy signed the National and Community Service Act. George Bush had similar programs in 2002 (http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/bushrecord/factsheets/needs.html).
Legislative History (http://www.nationalservice.gov/about/role_impact/history.asp)
Quote1990: National and Community Service Act of 1990: A renewed focus on encouraging volunteering in America led to the passage of the National and Community Service Act of 1990. This legislation, signed into law by President George H.W. Bush, created a new independent federal agency, the Commission on National and Community Service.
The Commission was charged with supporting four streams of service:
Service-learning programs for school-aged youth;
Higher education service programs;
Youth corps; and
National service demonstration models.
1992: National Civilian Community Corps (NCCC): A bipartisan group of Senators, working with the Bush Administration, drafted legislation to create NCCC as a demonstration program to explore the possibility of using post-Cold War military resources to help solve problems here at home. The NCCC, enacted as part of the 1993 Defense Authorization Act, is a residential service program modeled on the Depression-era Civilian Conservation Corps and the United States military.
1993: The National and Community Service Trust Act of 1993: Both the NCCC and the Commission on National and Community Service would later be incorporated into the Clinton Administration's National and Community Service Trust Act of 1993. Introduced by a bipartisan coalition of Members of Congress, President Bill Clinton signed it into law on September 21, 1993. The legislation created the Corporation for National and Community Service, and three Corporation administered programs: Senior Corps, AmeriCorps, and Learn and Serve America with the responsibility of mobilizing Americans into service.
2002: USA Freedom Corps: In his 2002 State of the Union address, President George W. Bush announced the creation of the USA Freedom Corps. Chaired by the President, USA Freedom Corps was a coordinating council that worked to strengthen our culture of service and helped find opportunities for every American to serve.
There is no mandatory service for all youth, though if volunteers want the benefits (such as help with college tuition), it is mandatory that they provide three years of service. That's it. No conscription, no forced labor, no child slavery.
What is happening is that right-wing blogs and talk radio personalities are mischaracterizing it for their own purposes; that's what they do, that's how they make money, by selling an unfounded conspiracy to those who don't ask any questions before they pick up their torches and pitchforks. You are being had.
I support this bill, and I hope a lot of people take advantage of the programs it creates. It is good for Americans, and it is good for America.
It's not how it's written that's the problem, it's how it'll be interpreted and then instituted that is the problem.
My crystal ball is on the fritz, so I'm a little hazy on how the government will force our youth in labor camps without a law to do so. Sounds like the Attorney's Full Employment Act to me.
I doubt our government would use this to fill sweat shops with American children to produce products to sell to the newly affluent Chinese. Rather, I can see the government saying if you want college aid then you must "volunteer" at something on a government approved list. Think about all of the social programs the government funds and then consider how easy it would be for the government to say "If you want these benefits then you must volunteer."
When Social Security was proposed people were against it because they would be "issued" a number. It passed because people were assured these numbers would never be used as a form of identification. How many times in a year are you asked for your Social Security number?
The difficulty is in attempting to see how this program can be changed over time and transform into something completely different than what is currently being proposed.
I suppose if all other forms of financial aid were eliminated, it would create a burden on students who didn''t have the luxury of time to volunteer. But I don't see that as the case here, where the governement is actually creating new programs for financial aid, in addition to traditional sources.
Any program can be perverted for evil, but I don't see that as a reason to avoid all new programs for fear they will at some future point be misused. The perfect is not the enemy of the good.
True enough, which is why we must anticipate what may happen before we willingly follow our so called leaders as they erode our rights and subjugate us to the whims of corporations and the wealthy.
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on March 19, 2009, 08:10:39 AM
Any program can be perverted for evil, but I don't see that as a reason to avoid all new programs for fear they will at some future point be misused.
I agree with PE.
One must keep an eye on what's going on. But there's no reason to halt all changes just because of a "what if".
Section 6104
(b) Specific Topics- In carrying out its general purpose under subsection (a), the Commission shall address and analyze the following specific topics:
(5) The effect on the Nation, on those who serve, and on the families of those who serve, if all individuals in the United States were expected to perform national service or were required to perform a certain amount of national service.
(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds
(c) Methodology-
(1) PUBLIC HEARINGS- The Commission shall conduct public hearings in various locations around the United States.
So you have 2 years to make your opinion known in person.
And they have already issued guidance on what public service could be required.
Amendment numbered 9 printed in House Report 111-39 to denote that sending care packages to soldiers deployed in combat zones overseas is included as an eligible service program.
Quote from: Squirl on March 19, 2009, 01:43:56 PM
(1) PUBLIC HEARINGS- The Commission shall conduct public hearings in various locations around the United States.
So you have 2 years to make your opinion known in person.
I expect this will make it through the senate. Then the members of the commission will be appointed. All will have time to either write their opinions to the commission as well as attend public meetings. From past experiences with this sort of thing it is imperative that anyone with opposing thoughts write and/or attend meetings. For that matter if you are in favor you should do the same. More than likely there will be a website as well. It's too early to say what might be attempted and how exactly. Give the system a chance to work.
"Give the system a chance to work. "
Let's see --- the calls from the 'citizens' were going 300 to 1 against the bailout
what system
you mean the "system" that pays off congress from unlimited lobbyist funding
Section 6104 defines the "ad hoc" comission findings
they "shall" find a way to shove this down our throats
the big timber companies clear cut most of the pacific north west back in the early 1900's
and got it replanted for free by the poor shmucks in the CCC under that bastard FDR's plans for the slaves hard working Americans "trying to put food on their families" to quote another president
George Carlin got it right
"The American Dream"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RhIxxvYtRE
I agree with Windpower, you can't trust this sham government to do anything right. This bailout bonus tax fiasco has got to be the most childish thing I've ever seen washington do. They are not operating like a government so much as they are acting like a bunch of spoiled children and that includes Obama.
Could you imagine if you won the lotto and before you went to get your check congress decided you did not need it and taxed it all.
The whole situation stinks and I know stink!
Quote from: ScottA on March 17, 2009, 12:41:52 PM
If he can get these lazy kids we have nowadays to do some work I say more power to him. Oh and good luck sucker. :P
"S#%T. You want me to do wha? Un uh. I don't think so! I tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get back down to the ghetto, sling some rock like my cousin De-de, an play some X-box. Man! I di-int even want no education, I thought that whack-a$$ Obama was one of us, an was gonna give us props out here. Build a road? S#%T! I tell you wha, gimme a gun, an I'll smoke a mutha fo ya!"
A portion of the kids in my neighborhood, perhaps. I think it's kind of a funny picture, but then some friends of mine were getting taunted with the well thought out words, 'Oh yeah...you may think it's over, but we the one's on top now sucka! That's right! Obama, Obama, Obama"
I am surprised that spell check hasn't been updated yet to include Obama.
Wonder if the three years will also include military service?
HR 1388 made it through the senate vote.
The bill may now proceed to a conference committee of senators and representatives to work out differences in the versions of the bill each chamber approved. The bill then goes to the President before becoming law.
Having passed in identical form in both the House and Senate, this bill now awaits the signature of the President before becoming law. [Last Updated: Apr 21, 2009 12:11PM]
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1388 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1388)
Awaiting Obama's signature, foregone conclusion there, right Don?
President Obama signed (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1010984.html) the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act yesterday. Let the enslaving begin!