I hear end of the world talk all the time. Most of it, I dismiss even though I firmly believe something is about to break.
We all have our beliefs or lack thereof and while I freely admit to being a Christian, I keep my personal feelings about that subject...personal. I do believe that among the many spokesmen, after weeding out the perverts, drug and alcohol induced profits, nuts and idiots...there are people who are God's spokes persons.
The question is, how do we tell the nuts from the real thing? Got me ! I just have to go on gut instinct. I have a gut feeling this person is worth listening to.
http://davidwilkersontoday.blogspot.com/
An Urgent Message
I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message to all on our mailing list, and to friends and to bishops we have met all over the world.
AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE - EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US.
For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires—such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.
There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting—including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God's wrath. In Psalm 11 it is written,
"If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?" (v. 3).
God is judging the raging sins of America and the nations. He is destroying the secular foundations.
The prophet Jeremiah pleaded with wicked Israel, "God is fashioning a calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh, turn back each of you from your evil way, and reform your ways and deeds. But they will say, It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart" (Jeremiah 18:11-12).
In Psalm 11:6, David warns, "Upon the wicked he will rain snares (coals of fire)...fire...burning wind...will be the portion of their cup." Why? David answered, "Because the Lord is righteous" (v. 7). This is a righteous judgment—just as in the judgments of Sodom and in Noah's generation.
WHAT SHALL THE RIGHTEOUS DO? WHAT ABOUT GOD'S PEOPLE?
First, I give you a practical word I received for my own direction. If possible lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials. In major cities, grocery stores are emptied in an hour at the sign of an impending disaster.
As for our spiritual reaction, we have but two options. This is outlined in Psalm 11. We "flee like a bird to a mountain." Or, as David says, "He fixed his eyes on the Lord on his throne in heaven—his eyes beholding, his eyelids testing the sons of men" (v. 4). "In the Lord I take refuge" (v. 1).
I will say to my soul: No need to run...no need to hide. This is God's righteous work. I will behold our Lord on his throne, with his eye of tender, loving kindness watching over every step I take—trusting that he will deliver his people even through floods, fires, calamities, tests, trials of all kinds.
Note: I do not know when these things will come to pass, but I know it is not far off. I have unburdened my soul to you. Do with the message as you choose.
God bless and keep you,
In Christ,
DAVID WILKERSON
Seems he is saying what a lot of us have been preparing for for a while. Maybe it's getting a step closer. Whether or not it happens, being better prepared is always good. Everyone we talk to is thinking something is up soon.
A group of three friends - another former covert ops person all agree - things are in the works. Time to be prepared as best we can.
Longer term food storage will give you a bit more piece of mind also. At least we will be harder to starve out. :)
I was up until 4 in the morning making a mirror for our church. After I had finished carving the recess for the broken piece of mirror, I was looking for a nice bit of scripture to carve on it. I was hoping for something that would tie into the theme of human's destroying God's image, and him remolding us into something whole. As I watched a movie about Jeremiah, I prayed for a passage that would go well, something that he wanted his children here to know. I flipped through the book, pointed, and opened my eyes with my finger pointing directly at the first word of this passage.
"Daughter Babylon is like a threshing floor at the time it is trampled, the time to harvest her will soon come" -Jer 51:33
This, coupled with other dreams, visions, feelings, and passages brought to light through prayer in times of distress, make me think that he is not far off.
"If the foundations are destroyed, what can righteous people do?" This man asks through scripture. One can only put his trust in God. Truly, we are only visitors here, transients, he is beginning and end, we are nothing. None are righteous unless attributed by God, you are nothing, I am nothing, there is only God.
If something happens to us that is inconsequential, and somebody comments on it, what do we say? "It was nothing". So are we, only God is, we are not. I am not saying that we won't store up food and seed, but if your trust is in the only permanence in this world firmly placed, yeheshua...God is salvation.
God helps those who help themselves. :)
Ah, but it is those who trust in Him, whom he blesses. Many are those who will assume to be helping themselves, and so be helped by Him, and will be lost. For:
Though the sparrow does not worry about filling a pantry, he remains fed; though the daisies of the field do not worry about their clothes, surely King Solomon himself, in all his splendor, never wore a garment so magnificent as the one the Father gives to a mere flower...to loosely quote ;D
We absolutely must make the correct choices, and take the correct precautions, just as Joseph in Egypt, yet without Him our only outcome is death, and our path destruction. If any more evidence is needed, look at everyone who hordes gold, silver, stocks, ammunition and weapons. The value of all of these things falls by the day! Truly the Lord is speaking to us on these matters! Man is stupid, pretentious, and shallow. For all of our technology, "knowledge", and safeguards, we hold our hopes in. Babylon conquered this country many years ago. But she herself will be brought down in her pride.
I love all of you here. The conversations we have are awesome. If only we could all meet in person, and drink tea together.
My wife absolutely gets pissed when I try to stock up on anything. She thinks it is a waste of money to buy extra food and water.
Quote from: wildbil on March 09, 2009, 07:38:13 AM
My wife absolutely gets pissed when I try to stock up on anything. She thinks it is a waste of money to buy extra food and water.
Water many times comes from contaminated -or no better than your domestic supply. Food is another story.
Now would be a good time to change her mind. Stores have only about 3 days stock under normal circumstances. Maybe one under panic circumstances. If something happens she will not have the luxury of eating.
Quote from: wildbil on March 09, 2009, 07:38:13 AM
My wife absolutely gets pissed when I try to stock up on anything. She thinks it is a waste of money to buy extra food and water.
Tell her it's an investment. That bag of rice, wheat etc. will cost more, maybe a lot more, 6 months or a year from now.
A question for those of you who have been stockpiling food for a while. Say you put aside a 6 mo supply of food. Everything has a shelf life. So at some point you have to chuck it and replace it or start eating your way through a 6 mo. supply of not very fresh food. Or, once you have the reserve, you can put it in rotation, in which case you are always eating 6 mo. old food.
How do you folks deal with that?
You might want to check-out this website:
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/
I think it is interesting that many Christians are getting the same messages
My wife and I are both 'blessed' with discernment (it is a mixed blessing in that we see things others don't and when we tell people about some things they think we are acting like know-it-alls or are just plain kooks, makes for some interesting conversations)
we are both convinced that very difficult times are ahead and we are planning ahead
when
I don't know, but one would have to be very blind to not see what is happening and see that things are accelerating as the Lord said it would in Matt 24
"There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains."
birth pains of course increase in frequency
I see coincidences everywhere
Peter, the quote you started with here was posted on Urbansurvival today
http://www.urbansurvival.com/week.htm
coincidence ?
the vaccines 'accidently contaminated' with bird flu --- sorry this was no accident -- I have been to vaccine facilities many times -- the safe guards are 'bullet proof' -- thank God someone 'blew the whistle' on this deliberate attempt at genocide
wildbill -- just buy extra food "on sale" every week *wink wink*
there are indeed many wonderful people on this forum
I am not even sure how I found it ???
another coincidence ?
I don't think there are coincidences. Making a choice to be open and aware of your surroundings and the patterns that exist opens up unlimited possibilities for considered pro-action.
Stocking up is good, whether your concern is for economic hardships, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, or the end of the world as we know it.
Look how fast society broke down in New Orleans after Katrina....and how long it took for "public services" to be restored.
Prudence would dictate that one be as ready as possible to take care of oneself.
That being said, there are still lots of holes in my personal "plan", and I'm scrambling to plug them quickly! [shocked]
"Or, once you have the reserve, you can put it in rotation, in which case you are always eating 6 mo. old food. How do you deal with that?"
The truth is, you don't really know how old the food you buy in the stores has been sitting on a shelf, or how long it took for it to get from the source to the store. Canned goods and items like mustard, ketchup, etc. (also canned) live for years without deteriorating.
"Old" is usually a product of O2 oxidation. So canned goods and items packed with no O2 don't get "old" for years. (Longevity does vary based on item and manner of storage, climate control, etc.) The flour that is ground from wheat in superpails is fresher by far than the stuff in the grocery.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Quote from: John C on March 09, 2009, 10:52:57 AM
Quote from: wildbil on March 09, 2009, 07:38:13 AM
My wife absolutely gets pissed when I try to stock up on anything. She thinks it is a waste of money to buy extra food and water.
Tell her it's an investment. That bag of rice, wheat etc. will cost more, maybe a lot more, 6 months or a year from now.
A question for those of you who have been stockpiling food for a while. Say you put aside a 6 mo supply of food. Everything has a shelf life. So at some point you have to chuck it and replace it or start eating your way through a 6 mo. supply of not very fresh food. Or, once you have the reserve, you can put it in rotation, in which case you are always eating 6 mo. old food.
How do you folks deal with that?
We are mostly storing 30 year stuff - canned stuff wheat - rice - dried onions - carrots - powdered milk.
Some is ten or twenty years. Some is a couple years . - We just use some and rotate it out with new but adding to the storage as we go - which reminds me -- Flutterby is ordering tomorrow - I need to get ours done.
Quote from: considerations on March 09, 2009, 12:37:54 PM
"Or, once you have the reserve, you can put it in rotation, in which case you are always eating 6 mo. old food. How do you deal with that?"
The truth is, you don't really know how old the food you buy in the stores has been sitting on a shelf, or how long it took for it to get from the source to the store. Canned goods and items like mustard, ketchup, etc. (also canned) live for years without deteriorating.
"Old" is usually a product of O2 oxidation. So canned goods and items packed with no O2 don't get "old" for years. (Longevity does vary based on item and manner of storage, climate control, etc.) The flour that is ground from wheat in superpails is fresher by far than the stuff in the grocery.
Just my 2 cents worth.
The canned food we get has O2 absorbers in it -- it should last a long time.
We plan to practice using it so will rotate it out as we do but will always have the reserve - grind the red wheat to make bread - it is supposed to germinate also - so it is there if we need a crop.
And for all of you Family Guy fans, don't forget the Twinkies!
rofl
Looking cool, Jens--- like a Viking. :)
I am fond of the (https://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll159/lovesdocbest/hostess-snoballs-25189.jpg)
I like the feel of them. :)
Everybody, just take a deep breath. As a Christian pastor, I run across this kind of "urgent message" all the time.
This person has been warning of something drastic happening for the last 10 years?!? Umm, that time period seems to include Sept. 11, 2001. What was said after that event?
Folks, ever since people learned to record their thoughts for future generations to read, these kind of messages have been proffered.
I get tired of those who would attempt to take Holy Scripture and apply it to some situation and predict doom and gloom. Christianity is all about the Good News, not the bad.
Having said this, I am reminded that I need to stop stockpiling ammo and think about some food and water stores. We can all take a lesson from the Mormons who IIRC stockpile a one year's supply.
Being prepared is not about some holy reckoning, but being realistic about the aftermath of some event, like Katrina, or even the Sept. 14, 2008 storm that put hundreds of thousands in the dark around my part of the country.
God's actions in history are all about rescue and salvation; being saved and redeemed; not holy wars and distruction.
God bless everyone, peace out. Preacher Dale
I totally agree with you poppy.
Over 2 years ago, December 2007 we had lost power for a week. The whole areas was in a bad state. We had horrific wind storms. Now these were just wind storms that knocked out power. The ER I worked at the time was limited. We could take emergencies in the sense they did not need things like a MRI. The ER would make sure that people were stable and then would have them moved to another hospital that had power (We have one in the region that is always first to get power on line, but at the sametime they have state of the art generators and can be self sufficient for a long long time)....... A week without power during a very very cold snap. We had people trying to camp out in the ER, seeing we had heat. We had some who refused to go to a shelter and demanded to stay at the hospital. "We would never go to a shelter!" Pride is a funny thing. ANYWAYS...My point, is that we had loss power strictly from wind storms. A 3 days Supply at best was a joke, this was a wind storm. Something not that uncommon in the grand scheme of things. Now just imagine if it was an earthquake. The wind storm did no damage to infra structure like roads and bridges, but it still took a week (some even longer) to get power. I was lucky that I happened to fill my gas tank to get back and forth to work that week. If it was an earthquake that wiped out power, it could have been weeks even months. 3 day supply is suppose to hold you until the local government can help? ummmm no. That is not what we saw at all. They too had no power. No power, no grocery stores, no filling up your gas tank, no heat. The reality is you need a months supply and even then if we had an earthquake that week instead of a wind storm, it is my belief that it would hae been weeks before help could really filter down to us.
Thanks for responding poppy . . .
Fear-mongers may have other motives. (Money?)
Quote from: poppy on March 11, 2009, 02:18:02 PM
I agree with you as well, except for,
I get tired of those who would attempt to take Holy Scripture and apply it to some situation and predict doom and gloom. Christianity is all about the Good News, not the bad.
First, remember that there is a lot more to the Bible, than simple, blatant love. Sometimes the most loving thing a father can do is punish his children when they do wrong.
God's actions in history are all about rescue and salvation; being saved and redeemed; not holy wars and distruction.
Except for little things like, oh Babylon, Sodom and Gomorrah, the sacking of Jerusalem, the sacking of Jerusalem, the scattering of the tribes, the persecution of the first Christians, martyrdom, etc, etc. These things actually are rescue and salvation, but it is of a different sort that is not so plain faced.
God bless everyone, peace out. Preacher Dale
You too, and thank you, peace be upon you.
I was going to leave this topic alone. [waiting]
I just want to say that I do not believe any of these "Doomsday is coming... it's next Thursday" things. I've yet to hear one that was accurate, or they are too general that if they're a little off on the timing they can twist events to fit the prophesy. I hope that doesn't send me directly to hell; do not pass thru the pearly gates.
Quote from: MountainDon on March 11, 2009, 09:35:45 PM
I was going to leave this topic alone. [waiting]
I just want to say that I do not believe any of these "Doomsday is coming... it's next Thursday" things. I've yet to hear one that was accurate, or they are too general that if they're a little off on the timing they can twist events to fit the prophesy. I hope that doesn't send me directly to hell; do not pass thru the pearly gates.
Don, if your going to hell for refusing to live in fear, I'll be there with you. and I'll brew the beer for the both of us.
That being said, fear is a powerful motivating factor, and it's not surprise the governments and churches have used it for centuries to guide their people. I have been as negative as anyone on this forum on the economy and whats going on but I have never described a mad max scenario. I dont believe that is even possible for us in this country in this decade. I do see the scenarios where things can get seriously bad, but if we were going to hard crash, it would have happened last fall. Were in for the slow grind downwards in my opinion, as Mr. Raabe called it, the muddle through. Whatever will come, those of us who live smaller than their means and keep our ears and eyes open will do significantly better than many others.
Quote from: muldoon on March 11, 2009, 10:29:04 PM
...I have been as negative as anyone on this forum on the economy and whats going on but I have never described a mad max scenario...
That's one of the things I appreciate about you; I simply never vocalized on it much before, if at all.
Hhhhhmmmmm....Friday the Thirteenth is less than 26 hours away....
Wonder what I should wear.....light or dark clothing?
sparks
camo
"camo" [rofl2]
The county sheriff came to one of our Blockwatch meetings. He told us that about their priorities in this county if we have a local or regional disaster, specifically like a big earthquake. We are in a remote and sparsely populated area. The 3 roads that we get in and out on are connected to population centers with bridges. If they are out, or the roads impassable, we should not expect to see any "help" for 3 to 4 weeks. The focus for helping will be on population centers.
That is enough incentive for me to stock up on the basics. I appreciated his honesty. That's not to say we couldn't get out on boats, but if it is a regional disaster, who would want to get out anyway? A decent supply of food and fuel could come in handy even if I "just" become unemployed. It's a practical plan.
Anyway, I'm going to bed, got to get the potatoes and onions in the ground tomorrow!
We usually do not put anything into the ground before Memorial day (in Wisconsin)
one year there was a freeze in June ! th the corn crops but didn't kill most things
I can't imagine how nice it must be to have such a long growing season
have you tried sweet potatoes ? they're tough to grow here because they take so long to mature
Now you know why I don't discuss religion! ::)
Quote from: muldoon on March 11, 2009, 10:29:04 PM
Don, if your going to hell for refusing to live in fear, I'll be there with you. and I'll brew the beer for the both of us.
Got room for a third at that party?
I personally think that it is a bit off for anybody to predict the scales to tip either way, I can only describe certain things from my experiences/perspective. I make no claims that everything is going to go crazy, but I don't see things returning to the way they were a year ago, 5 years ago, or 10 years ago. Things are going to change. If a prediction is made that says calamity, or that all is well, both have to be a bit loony. Please don't think I am trying to foster fear, never my goal. I do however, see that we need to make changes in a large way, and sometimes calamity is the only way for it, so, maybe it is on the way? Self -destructive behavior can continue for only so long.
The whole guns and ammo thing, also just scares me, and makes me sad. Not just the stockpiling that people are doing, but the profiting, the fear mongering that starts it, and the stupidity of the forces that make people feel this is the thing they have to do. Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.
Quote from: considerations on March 12, 2009, 01:11:11 AM
"camo" [rofl2]
The county sheriff came to one of our Blockwatch meetings. He told us that about their priorities in this county if we have a local or regional disaster, specifically like a big earthquake. We are in a remote and sparsely populated area. The 3 roads that we get in and out on are connected to population centers with bridges. If they are out, or the roads impassable, we should not expect to see any "help" for 3 to 4 weeks. The focus for helping will be on population centers.
That is enough incentive for me to stock up on the basics. I appreciated his honesty. That's not to say we couldn't get out on boats, but if it is a regional disaster, who would want to get out anyway? A decent supply of food and fuel could come in handy even if I "just" become unemployed. It's a practical plan.
Anyway, I'm going to bed, got to get the potatoes and onions in the ground tomorrow!
If the bridges are out, you will be safer anyway. The cities will be giant wastelands . The cars will have been modified to run on wood and have chimneys rising from the back bumper spewing smoke. People in leather with tumors in various places will be wandering around looking for food and beer. You don't want them there.
Believe me --- you are safer if the bridges are out. [scared]
rofl
Quote from: Jens on March 12, 2009, 08:58:43 AM
Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.
How would you have responded to the situation in 1938-1940 if you had been in charge of things in England?
OR, if you'd like a second choice; how would you have responded if you were in charge of things in the USA on December 7, 1941?
"We usually do not put anything into the ground before Memorial day (in Wisconsin)"
In this part of Washington it is silly to plant anything green before the end of May, with the exception of kale and a few other really hardy vegetables. The onions and garlic seem to have antifreeze in their veins, even at that they go under straw mulch to protect them from the inevatible frosts between now and the middle of May.
The biggest problem with things like beans is that they will drown if you plant them too soon. The spring rains are notable. Tomatoes do a lot better if a sheet of clear plastic is suspended over them, like an umbrella.
We plant short season tomatoes, cantelope might be possible in a greenhouse, I don't know if sweet potatoes would like it here, maybe in eastern washington.
We don't get near as cold as Wisconsin, I'd think a heated greenhouse would be a real boon there.
Its always a bit of an adventure. I have enjoyed fresh spinach, choho, and kale all winter in a "cold frame"...heated with a work light and covered with an old horse blanket every night, and sometimes during the really cold days.
Quote from: MountainDon on March 12, 2009, 11:51:58 AM
Quote from: Jens on March 12, 2009, 08:58:43 AM
Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.
How would you have responded to the situation in 1938-1940 if you had been in charge of things in England?
OR, if you'd like a second choice; how would you have responded if you were in charge of things in the USA on December 7, 1941?
I'd have wandered around looking for food and beer, :-X
"How would you have responded to the situation in 1938-1940 if you had been in charge of things in England?"
Well if 'England' had been a little more on top of things they might have objected to the banks (American and British)that supported Hilter's rise to power . Or maybe they should have paid attention to the rape of Germany's economy caused by the WWI 'reparations' and curbed the banks power then. Once the demon has been created it is too late to avoid war.
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/llt/51/pauwels.html
"OR, if you'd like a second choice; how would you have responded if you were in charge of things in the USA on December 7, 1941?"
If I were in charge of things in November of 1941 I would have told Admiral Kimmel that we had broken Japan's code and that an attack on Pearl Harbor was on its way.
Quote from: considerations on March 12, 2009, 12:09:49 PM
"We usually do not put anything into the ground before Memorial day (in Wisconsin)"
In this part of Washington it is silly to plant anything green before the end of May, with the exception of kale and a few other really hardy vegetables. The onions and garlic seem to have antifreeze in their veins, even at that they go under straw mulch to protect them from the inevatible frosts between now and the middle of May.
The biggest problem with things like beans is that they will drown if you plant them too soon. The spring rains are notable. Tomatoes do a lot better if a sheet of clear plastic is suspended over them, like an umbrella.
We plant short season tomatoes, cantelope might be possible in a greenhouse, I don't know if sweet potatoes would like it here, maybe in eastern washington.
We don't get near as cold as Wisconsin, I'd think a heated greenhouse would be a real boon there.
Its always a bit of an adventure. I have enjoyed fresh spinach, choho, and kale all winter in a "cold frame"...heated with a work light and covered with an old horse blanket every night, and sometimes during the really cold days.
When is your last frost -- I have planted trees on Memorial day in WI when it was snowing but it is usually pretty nice by then
The problem with sweet potatoes is that you have to plant seedlings around here because they take so long to mature
-- they sure are good though
my big challenge is deer --- they eat darn near everything if you let them
Windpower, responding to a "what would you have done" question does not permit the rewriting of previous history. It presumes you are dropped into the situation and have to deal with it.
Very much like today's question, "how do we get out of the financial situation we are in today?" The answer is not, "well we wouldn't be here if... (enter your own revision)" I agree that IF several things had not occurred or been allowed or encouraged to happen the situations in 1938-1941 could have been different, just as the situation today could have turned out differently. Problems are never solved with wishful thinking; we got we we got and we have to make do with that.
Don's right. Hindsight is always 20/20. Assuming I was not a national leader, I would have handled those two disasters the same way I am handling the current financial crisis. Taking each day at a time, keeping an eye on events, preparing for the next week with plans that are not static and can be changed at any time...and of course, caring for the family. That brings me to Jens statment.
Jems is a good man. If everyone were like him the world would be a sfe place for all. Unfortunately, there are very few people like him and violence is the ultimate argument. It is not my forst choice ut when others won't listen to reason, they listen to violence. It has worked since before men walked this earth and will be working when we disappear from it.
While turning the other cheek sounds good, it just gets you a fat lip on both sides.
Quote from: MountainDon on March 12, 2009, 01:00:18 PM
Windpower, responding to a "what would you have done" question does not permit the rewriting of previous history. It presumes you are dropped into the situation and have to deal with it.
Very much like today's question, "how do we get out of the financial situation we are in today?" The answer is not, "well we wouldn't be here if... (enter your own revision)" I agree that IF several things had not occurred or been allowed or encouraged to happen the situations in 1938-1941 could have been different, just as the situation today could have turned out differently. Problems are never solved with wishful thinking; we got we we got and we have to make do with that.
I thiink Jens' response was on the order of "violence is always a last resort"
My point is that we normal folks out here have been repeatedly manipulated not only in recent history but probably throughout mankind's post hunter gatherer existence.
We have 'allowed' our thoughts to be manipulated into killing other people for reasons that have nothing to do with taking care of our families and building a better world for our offspring.
I believe the current situation is no different
I posted a video about Obama on a different topic here just now
It is definitely worth a watch
or we could just sit back and wait for WWIII
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2487281703373472350
(http://www.hermes-press.com/obam_nazi.jpg)
Jens statement was...
Quote from: Jens on March 12, 2009, 08:58:43 AM
Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.
IF everyone, down to the last man, woman and child, lived by the ideals represented by the 10 commandments we would have a totally different world. The thing is we don't have that ideal world. So when confronted by a set of circumstances that have somehow evolved to a sorry state, decisions have to be made. Sometimes one must choose between the lesser of two evils and work things out from there.
I'll watch the video later.
I still think he is right on target viloence has never been a good answer
It may be the only answer
but rarely I think
perhaps a fine point of semantics....
I don't see that as a difference of semantics. It is a real difference.
It is not usually violence that starts wars, it is failed diplomacy. Violence is usually an indication of failed diplomacy. But you know what? It is definitely the fear of greater violence that ends wars. Why else sign the treaty?
The threat of violence can accomplish more than anything else, IMO.
All through history there have been thugs. Some operate on a local street level, others elevate themselves to a regional, national or world level. Sometimes all it takes is a bigger stick to deter the local thug, sometimes it takes a great deal more. The thing is appeasement seldom works, but fear does.
Quote from: peternap on March 12, 2009, 03:27:22 PM
While turning the other cheek sounds good, it just gets you a fat lip on both sides.
I agree; from personal experience.
"Well if 'England' had been a little more on top of things they might have objected to the banks (American and British)that supported Hilter's rise to power"
A really good book about this is "The Last Lion". It's a 3 volume biography of Winston Churchill. He knew, and said so, and it basically cost him his political career, that is until Germany started "expanding". There are only 2 volumes currently available because the author died. He passed his notes on to another author and friend, so many of us are hoping that last volume will get published. I digress....the work is a fascinating and detailed window on what happened in the pre WWII years in England.
"Fat lip on both sides" Have you ever started a fight with an act of vengeance? I have. I felt just as worthless and hurt as I did before. Felt good for a minute (minute is not always literal, I live in the ghetto, in the south), but always left me feeling empty. I prefer to not feel empty. If it is a matter of life or death, I will fight back the best I can, but where do people draw the line? If somebody breaks into your house, to steal some food, or your TV to sell and buy food for their family, do you just grab that loaded .38 and blow their head off for it? Shoot em in the knee (for you smarties out there saying "no, the knee")? "But that is my stuff, I worked for it, I paid for it" some will respond. Nothing belongs to any of us. Yes, it would have to be an ideal world for everyone to be able to live in safety like this, but the world is here, now. You can't change people, but you can change the way you think and react to the situations presented you. I may kill to save those I love from wicked people, but sometimes living your ideal, and dying in conviction of that ideal, saves many more. Sometimes you can effect many more people's outcomes with something as simple as "getting two fat lips". Many people are only violent toward you until you show them that you will not let them touch you.
Having weapons close at hand, IMO, doesn't give you the chance to truly be brave. There is nothing in this world, that I have because of me, therefore there is nothing in this world that I can truly save. Preservation of life is the only thing, and pretty darned easy to do without violence. In fact, I would argue that the only way is without violence, and especially, vengeance.
Glenn, would the chimney have to be double walled, insulated stainless? Just curious :)
Jens, you make fine points. And I do see where your coming from, I dont necessarily agree with you but thats ok. Our outlooks on life are made up soley on our experiences in life, the things that have happened to us and how we reacted to them.
I have not been in many fights, although I did grow up in very poor neighborhoods. Probably about 6-7 total my whole life. I have won and lost, I have been attacked without reason, and attacked others for "vengeance" as you described it. None of those victories or losses felt good. I have also walked away from fights, some because I was able to talk my way around it, and some not. The only time I felt good about any of those situation was where talking was a viable option. But it is not always a viable option.
I remember one time in highschool a friend of mine was fighting was a kid much larger than him. I did not help him partly because of fear (that I am not particularly proud to say) and part because I had nothing to do with it. He was hurt pretty bad. While I may have taken your "high ground" and avoided the confrontation I was left with the same hollow sadness you described above. That was when I was in high school and I still remember it today.
You ask the question what if someone breaks in your house, and to that I would ask, how do you know their intentions? They dont wear a sign that says - just stealing food. I dont have any idea what they will or will not attempt to do. Once they are inside the house through forced entry I feel I have no option but to assume the absolute worst case. I would not be able to live with myself if someone were to hurt my children because of my failure to act. Stealing my truck in the driveway, ok thats what insurance is for, breaking into my house - thats another story. I dont care about the tv. However, I wont be asking someone if they just want the tv.
for what its worth, being brave has nothing to do with having a weapon or not. It is acting when it is necessary. Being brave does not require violence, and acting with violence does mean you are brave. Bravery involves putting fears aside and doing what must be done. Firemen are brave, the ax they carry isnt for violence.
Just my opinions.
Just a few headlines from my site Jens. These aren't nice people who do things like this. If you run into one, You need to be able to defend yourself. The next victim may be your wife or children.
It's not a game or an act of vengeance, It's survival. Think you can shoot someone in the knee while he's shooting at you....try it.
STAUNTON — Bond was denied Thursday in Augusta County General District Court to a man suspected of trying to hire a hit man to kill two people, including his ex-wife, a deputy clerk with the Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court.
Police release identity of third female robbery suspect
Front Royal 7-Eleven robbed at gunpoint
Man shot outside Reidsville store
The parents of a Fairfax County girl found dead in Baltimore in November continued to press for leads in the case yesterday, releasing a sketch of a woman who might have been with their daughter shortly before her death and accusing Fairfax school officials of not cooperating with the investigation.
FRONT ROYAL, Va. (AP) -- A soldier dressed and wearing face-paint like Batman villain The Joker was shot and killed by police in the Shenandoah National Park after he pointed a loaded shotgun at them after a chase, an FBI affidavit says
I have never started a fight. But I have struck back.
I've worn glasses since I began school. I was thin and always afraid of fights because if my glasses got knocked off they might get broken and I knew they cost my parents a lot. Plus that just wasn't my nature. So I avoided confrontation, I turned the other cheek a lot just like the sermons told me. However, I recall a time in junior high (middle school) when this guy who was an absolute bully really got to me. He wasn't that big, he was simply a bully. I do not recall what he did to provoke me, but I do remember taking off my glasses, handing them to my even smaller friend David, then quickly turning around and letting Cody have it hard in the face, repeatedly. He never bothered me after that.
If someone is breaking into your house it is probably not because they need a toilet. On the one hand I hope that nobody is home if we are broken into. However, if I was present it would be a cause for serious alarm. Someone breaking in could just as easily be armed and have no qualms about severely beating myself or my wife or anyone else present. They could just as easily kill me and my loved ones. I believe I would maintain my presence of mind to act responsibly, that is I do not plan on coming out with blazing guns. I would yell and shout at the intruder that I was armed and they should drop to the floor; yell and shout. I would want to be ready to let them run if they choose to do so, without chasing or shooting after them. If they chose to run at me, making threatening moves, then and only then would I shoot. That's a lot of presence of mind called for. If I'm ever called to put it to test that's how I want to see it play out... the part of them dropping to the floor scared is my first druther, my second would be them running very fast in the direction they came from... that's what I want most in an imagined situation like that.
If they made the move to attack me, no I would not blow their head off, that's too small a target, just like their knee or their arm is too small a target. It calls for a chest shot; it's the biggest target.
BTW, statistics show that a person in Canada is much more likely to be involved in a break in when they are at home than they are in most places in the USA. That's because in Canada the homeowner is much less likely to be armed and less of a threat to the intruder.
Just watched the movie Windpower. Here is a favorite quote, "I saw a picture of Obama playing basketball, and I said you know what, I see him as a leader, and that's the world in his hands," what I thought was funny, is that the photo showed him THROWING the "world" through a hole! Not funny haha, funny in that kinda sick, ironic way.
I'm sure this film is loaded with propaganda, yet plenty of truth as well. All I have to say is, scary, not surprising, and, duhh!
Jens, While stainless will last longer, in the post industrial society after the holocaust, you will find that anything goes. If someone tries to make a regulation as to what type of pipe is proper you will simply blast them. I would suggest black single wall stovepipe supported with bailing wire.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/van.jpg) Sorry - couldn't find a better post industrial vehicle
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/vanblast.jpg) Blast 'em
Less likely to be armed in Canada? Isn't there like 3 guns per household average there? Maybe it has changed. I understand where all of you are coming from as well, these are all things I have discussed with myself when it came to living in this neighborhood. Thing is, most of the violence doesn't take place in houses. Break ins are usually crack heads, and that is generally into a vacant house or building site. They don't like people too much, or barking dogs. If I were to tote a firearm around though, even just for "protection" from those who would mean me harm, I would feel just as bad about pulling the gun on somebody who I thought was threatening me as I would for shooting them. Also would probably get shot myself. Nobody; even gang bangers, and drug dealers; want that kind of person around. God willing, if you are ever in that position Don (God forbid), your situation goes as hoped. When I was a kid, I wanted to get a paintball gun and have wars with my friends. My mom's boyfriend, explained to me how cold hearted or afraid you have to be to shoot someone. Lectured me a bit, actually. He was in Vietnam, had shot people there. Even the cases of self defense, he never forgot. Like a curse.
Ah, how I long for the days when people will beat their rifles into plow shears, and make their tanks into flowerbeds!
Thanks for the stories there guys. Don, I was always the smallest kid in school, always got picked on because I cried easily. Later, when I grew the summer before junior year, not only did I not take any more crap from those same kids, but I would always stand up for the smaller ones that had become their targets. Was in one fight in middle school, kid wouldn't stop giving me crap. I elbowed him, he punched me a few times, never even felt it. Kid has been super cool to me ever since. Unfortunately, that is not the way it seems to work most of the time in the streets, or in wars (from my withdrawn POV). Then, a few years ago, my "best friend" at the time cut out my heart. I wanted nothing more than to open up his head like a tin can. Instead, I opened up his International Scout (his heart) like a head, with the help of a crowbar. I feel ashamed that I did it, but also ashamed that I didn't take it out of gear and let it roll down the hill off the cliff. Still left feeling the emptiness that only forgiveness and reconciliation can fill. He ,unlike the first guy, is not my friend anymore.
I could never lack regret if something happened to my family, but I could never lack regret for taking somebody else out of this world, either. Just a hard line to draw, God willing, I will never have to.
Guns in Canada.
The USA is estimated to have 90 guns per 100 population. Canada 33 guns per 100 population.
Guns in Canada are not distributed as evenly as in the USA. That is, a gun owner in Canada is likely to own more guns than the average gun owner in the USA.
Furthermore Canadian homes with guns tend to be more rural, whereas in the USA the gun ownership is more spread around with city folk owning a greater number of guns than there counterparts in Canada.
Therefore, if you are a burglar in Canada you are most likely operating in an urban area than has a low density of gun ownership.
FWIW, gun ownership is more restricted in Canada. Handguns are especially more difficult to obtain/own. Guns are registered by law, although I understand the government has had great difficulty in getting people to come forth and voluntarily register their guns. (Probably because they are afraid of what the next step may be. That is pure supposition on my part. I have no facts; just projecting my personal thoughts/ opinions/biases.)
Quote from: Jens on March 13, 2009, 12:00:10 AM
Ah, how I long for the days when people will beat their rifles into plow shears, and make their tanks into flowerbeds!
Jens, I know you mean well by that. And yes it would be superb to live in a world where the only reason we wanted a gun was to hunt for meat. (And if that offends anyone, so be it.)
However, the problem I have is that I don't want to disarm unless the bad guys do so as well. The bad guys have not given me any reasons to believe they would even if they said they would. ??? ??? ??? I would feel bad if I gave up my right to own legal arms and then some S.O.B. with an illegally owned firearm came along and carried out whatever nefarious deed he had in mind.