Well, apparently non-LDS members can not always buy canned food at the Church of Latter Day Saints Cannery. I went today on a bit of a two part mission, and planned on buying some case lot goods.
I received conflicting data as to whether or not I could buy from the cannery. One guy who was running the Bishop's Storehouse (who thought it was okay to purchase from cannery) was giving me a tour of the warehouse area and telling me how everything worked. The cannery manager came up and asked me who I was and what I wanted.... when I told him that I was not LDS, and that I was Catholic, both men noticeably bristled.
The cannery manager then told me that they do not sell to non-LDS members, and with that the "tour" abruptly stopped, as did all conversation.
Let's just say that I wasn't feeling any brotherly love at that point, as it appears that my local LDS is not a font of ecumenical spirit.
I did a quick search on the internet, and it appears that there are mixed policies across the US. In times of extreme demand, the canneries will shut down non-LDS access. Some don't allow non-LDS access at any time.
Hmmm, maybe we haven't had a problem because Flutterby is LDS & does the ordering... I can see how they would want to serve their own members 1st but the abrupt change in attitude when they found out you were Catholic - I guess you won't be joining their church anytime soon... d*
Yes... serving their own members first should be a priority in times of need.
The warehouse was packed with inventory. No customers in sight.
Figured as much!
I used to hire them. In the end I fired every one except one girl who married into the Mormons and was still in the trial period.
They take care of their own when they aren't back biting....but they don't care about anyone else. Not a group I would want to buy supplies from.
Quote from: NM_Shooter on February 21, 2009, 03:14:14 PM
The cannery manager came up and asked me who I was and what I wanted.... when I told him that I was not LDS, and that I was Catholic, both men noticeably bristled.
Discrimination based upon a particular race, color, religion, sex, or national origin is pretty abhorrent in my book. Many states have commerce clauses against this.
Don't get me wrong on this... I am very respectful of them and their sense of community. I have several who are friends from work, even though we don't socialize out of work.
I am just disappointed in their policy. I work with a group called St. Vincent dePaul Society, and through the donations of one (fairly financially poor) Catholic church, we collected and distributed over $60k last year to the poor in the north valley of ABQ. All funds were donated by parishioners, and were given out to those in need without regard for their religious alignment. We also contribute to a food pantry in Rio Rancho that provides food to (qualified) needy folks. They get a box of staples and some fresh stuff that will last a family of 4 a week for only $5 or so.
I was just bummed because I was not looking for a handout... I was willing to pay market price for stuff I could buy locally. And I got glared at for asking.
-f-
P.S. Since this is not really a commercial program, I think they can exclude anybody they want. Bummer.
Quote from: NM_Shooter on February 21, 2009, 06:02:16 PM
P.S. Since this is not really a commercial program, I think they can exclude anybody they want. Bummer.
It's not like they have a storefront open to the general public so they would be within their rights. It is not very community friendly though.
Quote from: peternap on February 21, 2009, 05:12:39 PM
Figured as much!
They take care of their own when they aren't back biting....but they don't care about anyone else.
2007 Statistics
Days of labor donated to Church welfare facilities
647,319
Employment and training placements
U.S. and Canada
88,390
Internationally
137,311
Total number of:
Storehouses
138
Home storage centers
100
Production projects
55
Processing facilities
24
Storage and distribution facilities
37
Employment resource centers
282
Deseret Industries thrift stores
43
LDS Family Services offices
73
Number of missionaries serving in Welfare Services
3,974
Examples of missionary assignments:
Managing Employment Centers
Teaching English as a second language
Teaching marriage and parenting skills
Improving agricultural and medical practices
Distributing clothing
Supervising welfare projects and missionaries
Number of major disaster assistance efforts (1985-2007)
185
Recent examples:
California wildfires
2007
Peru earthquake relief
2007
Yogyakarta, Indonesia earthquake relief
2006
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita relief
2005
Africa measles vaccination campaigns
2004 - 2007
Southeast Asia tsunami relief
2004 - 2007
Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985–2007)
Cash donations
$259.8 million
Value of material assistance
$750.9 million
Countries served
165
Food distributed
58,809 tonsMedical supplies distributed
11,001 tons
Clothing
78,108 tons
Educational supplies
5,879 tons
Quote from: Sonoran on February 21, 2009, 10:50:36 PM
Quote from: peternap on February 21, 2009, 05:12:39 PM
Figured as much!
They take care of their own when they aren't back biting....but they don't care about anyone else.
2007 Statistics
Days of labor donated to Church welfare facilities
647,319
Employment and training placements
U.S. and Canada
88,390
Internationally
137,311
Total number of:
Storehouses
138
Home storage centers
100
Production projects
55
Processing facilities
24
Storage and distribution facilities
37
Employment resource centers
282
Deseret Industries thrift stores
43
LDS Family Services offices
73
Number of missionaries serving in Welfare Services
3,974
Examples of missionary assignments:
Managing Employment Centers
Teaching English as a second language
Teaching marriage and parenting skills
Improving agricultural and medical practices
Distributing clothing
Supervising welfare projects and missionaries
Number of major disaster assistance efforts (1985-2007)
185
Recent examples:
California wildfires
2007
Peru earthquake relief
2007
Yogyakarta, Indonesia earthquake relief
2006
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita relief
2005
Africa measles vaccination campaigns
2004 - 2007
Southeast Asia tsunami relief
2004 - 2007
Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985–2007)
Cash donations
$259.8 million
Value of material assistance
$750.9 million
Countries served
165
Food distributed
58,809 tonsMedical supplies distributed
11,001 tons
Clothing
78,108 tons
Educational supplies
5,879 tons
Days a year arguing with me about drinking coffee=365
Days a year arguing with each other over who is the Bishops favorite=365
Days a year working=0
Not to mention Uncle Tinkerbell who was Gay
Days a year oogleing my clients=350
My most repeated phrase when conversing with Mormons. "Shutup and do what I told you"
Sorry to have steered you wrong, Frank. The ones here had a said they had no problem with it and treated us great, even though they knew I was non-denominational. :)
As you mentioned I guess it varies per area and the ones running it.
I think the great reply applies:
"It Depends" ;)
-f-
hi there NM
There are two facilities - the bishop's storehouse and the cannery. These two facilities usually are right next to each other, but have two separate functions.
The bishop's storehouse is for welfare purposes, the food is free and is given to church members who are in need. If a member of the church wants food from the storehouse, they have to get permission from their bishop first. It's not just a free-for-all. The food is also given to victims of natural disasters, people who are homeless, etc. Last August after the wildfire in our area, the LDS church handed out free boxes of food to ALL who were involved in the fire, even nonmembers.
The cannery is the place where you purchase food - but it's just "canned food" for storage. There are dry canneries and wet canneries. Anyway.... I always thought that anyone can buy the food and you don't need to be a member.
I'm curious now and since one of my callings at church is the "emergency preparedness/home storage" specialist, I'm going to find out what's going on. I'll make some phone calls and I'll get back to you in a couple of days.
And as for you PN c* ya want to argue about coffee with me? cummon, it'll be fun!
Quote from: Flutterby on February 22, 2009, 01:01:18 AM
And as for you PN c* ya want to argue about coffee with me? cummon, it'll be fun!
Nope! Can't drink it anymore, but I'm still open arguing about Uncle Tinkerbell! ;D
PN:
I was born into the LDS church. I have known a lot of really good members, a lot of okay members, and a lot of members who weren't so great.
Being a Mormon does not automatically mean that you posses all of the values and characteristics that Mormonism preaches. The key point in this statement is that the Mormon church IS preaching good values and characteristics...unforunately the members do not always have them.
I don't hate Germans because of Hitler.
It's too bad that the Mormons who worked for you had zero tact and work ethic.
If you need a hard working Mormon just give me a call...Glenn can give you a reference for me.
Yup - worked him hard lately - self motivated and trustworthy.
We hauled out seven 12 yard loads of lumberyard scrap today and he was always looking for the next thing to do :) He even tried not to laugh when I jammed beams through the headboard of my trailer - twice..... that Bobcat doesn't have a great sense of feel for when it is destroying something. d*
Quote from: Sonoran on February 22, 2009, 01:19:29 AM
PN:
I was born into the LDS church. I have known a lot of really good members, a lot of okay members, and a lot of members who weren't so great.
Being a Mormon does not automatically mean that you posses all of the values and characteristics that Mormonism preaches. The key point in this statement is that the Mormon church IS preaching good values and characteristics...unforunately the members do not always have them.
I don't hate Germans because of Hitler.
It's too bad that the Mormons who worked for you had zero tact and work ethic.
If you need a hard working Mormon just give me a call...Glenn can give you a reference for me.
Sonoran, I didn't mean to insult you or anyone else here. As usual, a lot of what I said was tongue in cheek. I had a number of them working at one time, most related and if they worked for someone else, they've been a lot of fun to watch.
One who was NOT related to the others, got the church AMEX card and was buying computer equipment and having it sent to him at work. The Bishop himself called me and asked that I not allow him to do it anymore ???
The Grandmother died and the family inherited her house. Two of them wanted to buy it from the rest of the family to live in. Uncle Tinkerbell had a whole string of recorded judgments and his share would pay them off so they could get clear title, but he wouldn't sign the deed unless everybody gave him a cut of their share.
Speaking of Tinkerbell, I got a call from the Vice President of a presentation company because Tinkerbell kept hanging around trying to get a date with one of his engineers. >:(
There were never ending emergencies and family feuds. Each resulting in "Sick days". d*
Quite a bunch!
Going back further, there was Ken Lambert. He was a different story and I really dislike him.
On the other hand. All LDS members I've known are clannish. While they do good work in some areas, to quote my favorite movie, "Their moves are their moves".
They do look after their own and that's admirable, but aside from disaster assistance and missionary work, I've seen very little interest in the rest of the world.
PN:
I'm having a hard time here.
I have a feeling that you shouldn't have been turned down when it came to buying food from the cannery. I would suggest that you don't give up on that. Perhaps you can talk to the Bishop about it. Because I do have a feeling that those members shouldn't have turned you down.
Also, you said "aside from disaster assistance and missionary work, I've seen very little interest in the rest of the world."
What should we be doing to show more interest in the rest of the world? If I know along what lines you are thinking, perhaps I can tell you about some Church programs that you are unaware of.
Quote from: Sonoran on February 22, 2009, 02:57:30 AM
PN:
I'm having a hard time here.
I have a feeling that you shouldn't have been turned down when it came to buying food from the cannery. I would suggest that you don't give up on that. Perhaps you can talk to the Bishop about it. Because I do have a feeling that those members shouldn't have turned you down.
Also, you said "aside from disaster assistance and missionary work, I've seen very little interest in the rest of the world."
What should we be doing to show more interest in the rest of the world? If I know along what lines you are thinking, perhaps I can tell you about some Church programs that you are unaware of.
You've got us mixed up Sonoran. NM Shooter tried to buy supplies, not me.
I made the comment that I wasn't surprised and I should have left it at that.
As to my feelings about what the Mormon Church should be doing....that's a subject I think I will end before it begins. The Mormon Church would not be interested in my opinions or suggestions, and It's a subject I have pursued too far on this forum already.
Let me end my participation in this by again apologizing for any offense. Anything I said was not intended as personal for you or any other member of the board.
Why do mormans stockpile food?
They've been doing this for years. It's a part of the church doctrine that says one should be prepared for whatever the future may bring and to NOT place oneself in the position of having to depend on others for sustenance. A year's supply of food is the goal. I first ran across this about 25 years ago when I visited the photo darkroom of a customer. All the benches (hollow core doors) were supported by stacks of Sam Andy freeze dried foods.
I thought about approaching the NM state leadership to see what the policy is, but I suspect there isn't a real policy.
Sometimes they do sell to non-LDS, sometimes not. I suspect it is left up to the discretion of the local bishop's office, except when supplies are drastically needed or in high demand. If that happens, there is probably a ban on providing anything to any non-LDS.
I may just end up buying from Walton Feed direct.
-f-
P.S. yesterday was a bad day all around. After getting booted by the Mormons, I got caught driving like a "bat out of hell" (25 in a 15) through my neighborhood later in the day. The cops have really turned up the speed traps in my village. The village purse must be getting empty. I love the way they do this trap.... they set up at the exit to our neighborhood and shoot radar up the road. You come around this blind curve and they have you. The only people that use this road are the residents and their guests. Nice, huh? I was on the way to 5:00 mass with my daughter when they stopped me. No chance getting a warning in this community. I was so pissed I canceled church until today, then went up the road, parked, and stopped and warned cars for 20 minutes that there were cops ahead.
I probably wouldn't be as sensitive to this except for the fact that I have lived here for 11 years, and I routinely see cops breaking multiple traffic laws in the village. I have problems both with hypocrites and with abusive authority. When both are found in the same place it creates a perfect storm for me.
Heck, my truck idles at 25mph.
I warn everyone for several miles when our local donut eaters set up a speed trap. It's an old truck driver thing.
About the food storage policy, Whitlock got me started on that although Sassy has always stocked things pretty well. I have to agree that it is a very good policy. Many people in the cities couldn't make it through the week if the system goes down, and as you can see that could be a possibility.
No credit to stores - no bullets - bank bailouts- financial ripoffs - salmonella. We may not use the 30 year storeable stuff in the pantry often except for rotation use, but it is a comfort to know there is enough there to take us through a year or two along with our garden, and we do not have to rely on the system at all if it comes to that.
You should check your states laws. There is a common law in my state that if you are clocked under 55 mph with a radar gun the difference between your speed and the spread limit has to be greater than 10 mph for the charge to stick. It has to be 5 mph difference for over 55. If they got you with a mechanical speed trap (the kind you drive over) your toast.
As for the Mormons or LDS, I have to say,
I ignore the religious beliefs of them or any other religion - I grew up JW. I found that being born into a religion doesn't make it right or maybe wrong. Religion has not destroyed my belief in the Bible or God. It has only destroyed my belief in religion.
That was just for background.
Now - friends ....
I have to associate my Mormon friends with my list of people I would trust with my life no matter what my beliefs. They may not all be that way, but I have been friends with some of them since about 1976 or 8 and Whitlock's family for most of the last year. He is like me pretty well in beliefs.
When my birth religion sent me to hell, my friends were always there to help - talk with or cover my back. We don't dwell on religious differences although we may mention or talk about it a bit in passing.
I would trust my friends with my life and they feel the same. Maybe I just know the special ones, or maybe there are more.
Sorry about that guys.
I had a feeling that I mixed you up when I was going to bed.
So, the message about the Cannery was to NM and the message about the church programs was for PN.
Quote from: Squirl on February 22, 2009, 11:42:09 AM
You should check your states laws.
Nah, I'm guilty. I just wanted to whine and vent a bit. I'll go to court, ask for and probably receive deferred adjudication and be done with it. I can either:
1) Amend my behavior or deal with the consequences,
2) Try and get the limit on my road raised.
I suspect i will just buy a radar detector and be more careful. I guess that falls under #1.
Am I the only that has had "Imagine" playing in the jukebox in their head for the past 2 days :)
Frank, MTL if you ask nicely they will remove the citation. K had one a few years back and she had to attend a driver ed course. That was a drag but it kept her record clean and the insurance company in the dark.
The Rio Rancho police are slightly more benevolent if there's no history of tickets when they run your info. I received a written warning a few weeks back just down the street on Nicklaus. The RR PD keeps those on file for 6 months. If you get stopped again within that time you're dead meat. But they don't forward it to the state or insurance companies.
That's not to say they don't have speed traps. After 25 years I think I know where the most likely spots are, but in case I don't I do drive slower than I did when I was younger.
I had the song I Can Only Imagine by Michael W Smith about what it will be like meeting Jesus. I just attended the memorial service of my "spiritual" 89 y/o mother - she went on to her reward last Sunday. I can say that she was probably the most loving person I have ever known. She never met a stranger, her door was always open to anyone - especially the down & outers, those others rejected. Her husband & she had "Home Missions Chapel" - he worked as a auto body mechanic in his garage, the chapel was in their house, they had people staying with them all the time, always had company for meals - the real example of how Jesus would have wanted "church" to be.
A woman sung the song I Can Only Imagine & the pastor read 1st Corinthians 13 - the love chapter. Lots of people stood up to share how she'd been instrumental in their lives. I'll miss her - she was a friend since I was 20 y/o, but I know I will see her one day ;D
sorry for your loss Sassy, she was a sign post to many souls and you are right in your thinking that she was doing God's work.
Thanks, apaknad.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on February 22, 2009, 11:51:09 AM
As for the Mormons or LDS, I have to say,
I ignore the religious beliefs of them or any other religion - I grew up JW. I found that being born into a religion doesn't make it right or maybe wrong. Religion has not destroyed my belief in the Bible or God. It has only destroyed my belief in religion.
That was just for background.
Now - friends ....
I have to associate my Mormon friends with my list of people I would trust with my life no matter what my beliefs. They may not all be that way, but I have been friends with some of them since about 1976 or 8 and Whitlock's family for most of the last year. He is like me pretty well in beliefs.
When my birth religion sent me to hell, my friends were always there to help - talk with or cover my back. We don't dwell on religious differences although we may mention or talk about it a bit in passing.
I would trust my friends with my life and they feel the same. Maybe I just know the special ones, or maybe there are more.
Glenn, It's always the individuals you trust, not the organization. Organizations, whether they are religious, fraternal, governmental or otherwise, are just that, organizations!
That's the truth. :)
Something you should consider when dealing with the mormon church or its members is that it is a lay religion...meaning untrained people are called to positions without compensation and must volunteer their time and learn as they go. Some stick to the handbooks, some concentrate on people, some on organization, some give as little as possible, and some have a great deal of learning to do.
Bishops are called to preside over a specific area, not just LDS members in that area. Obviously that is their greatest concern and what they deal with most (the members). I personally know of plenty of times we've helped non-member families here locally with food, money for utilities, etc. They all go through the Bishop. One main key is that it isn't a dole. The church will help in times of hardship and help you get back on your feet (thus the perpetual education fund, job services, lds social services, bishop's storehouses, etc) but won't give you a dole for your support. Does that make sense? Members who follow the council about storage should know that part of their storage is to help others if/when the need arises. What the actual policy is about canneries, I don't know as there isn't one anywhere near here. My husband says it depends on the local people.
To help answer the food storage question, we believe in being self-reliant. That doesn't mean we don't believe in accepting help when needed, but we do so after we've done all that we can. Having a supply of food storage can be a make or brake point when it comes to the unexpected. Anything from natural disasters to losing a job, illness in the family, etc. It is one less (often huge) bill to have to worry about. Another reason becomes obvious when you read the story of the seven years of plenty and seven years of famine in Egypt. Under Joseph's leadership the Egyptians stored food. When the years of famine came those who didn't have food (Israelites, among others) traded their freedom for it. If you remember, our religion has had many years of persecution and hardships, being attacked and governed against, and we do not intend to leave ourselves open for easy oppression. Of course, like with every other religion, you must remember that we are given the principle and the goal but members often fall short of it. Same holds true with helping your neighbors, accepting others even while not approving of their actions/beliefs, etc. The goals and principles are good and true, how we manage to apply them to our own lives often doesn't meet the goal. We aren't perfect or we'd have no need for the church.
Catherine (LDS)
I asked a friend about providing me with the Bishop's name and address so I could write and ask for permission to buy from the cannery. This is what I received in response:
<snip>
Hi Frank!
Last time I checked it was OK for non-members to purchase, however they do have to help can their purchases, as do the Mormons.
They way it works is: The cannery is used mainly to help members who are not on federal welfare, but need a little help for a short time
And for large disaster situations. The second use is to help members and non-members have a viable amount of food storage for the sustenance
Of their own families in case of disaster, loss of work, etc. for provident living
All the above criteria involve spending time at the cannery canning. Even those who are taking for welfare sort of reasons, are asked, if able, to
Put time into canning, cleaning, stocking, and maintaining the Bishops Storehouse (Where the cannery is located).
Bishops are in charge of the entire area of their ward boundaries, whether people are LDS or not. They are to see to the welfare of all people in need
If there are any disasters of any type. Churches can be turned into shelters, hospitals, and quarantine centers. Doctors and nurses, active and inactive,
Are identified and on a list to move into action.
The only caveat to non-members, as far as I know, they need to work with members to can. When the issue is providing without immediate need, there is
An order of doing things. For instance, it is more cost effective to make a large order of, say spaghetti. Therefore, all wards will be notified that the cannery
Item for the month will be spaghetti. When it is a wards turn, they go to the cannery, with everyone who wants to purchase, they can the spaghetti, pay
For it, and take it home. In December, the cannery try's to get rid of overstock and at that time you can purchase extra cases without canning.
You can go with me or any other LDS member you know. It would be helpful for you to get a cannery order form. You order in month A and can that item in month B.
I will see what I can find for you. There is also a site called Emergency Essentials, it is: beprepared.com. Many Mormons use this site. The products are more varied
and at very reasonable prices. I receive an ad from them monthly. They also carry generators, backpacks, emergency radios, tents, storage barrels, light sticks, etc.
I'll try to remember to let you know next time one comes in. They also use Bothell Farms for fruit. San Francisco Spices for bulk Spices. And they also do a yearly
bulk chocolate purchase near the holidays...priorities you know!
The cannery is only open on Saturdays. The time they set aside for canning is generally 2 to 4 hours. I will get together what I can for you.
Linda
That sort of agrees with some of the stuff here - I know of the bigger canneries my other friend goes to up north, but there is a small one in Fresno where a couple who likes to volunteer says they just do it for others there - they enjoy it so keep doing it. That may be part of the difference.
So here's what I found out. During Y2K there was too much demand and the canneries just couldn't keep up, so they sold to members only. Afterwards, the ban was lifted and the canneries are now definitely supposed to sell to ANYONE! But the person I talked to told me that unfortunately some canneries didn't get that news and they still think they can only sell food to members.
But here is the catch. If you want to buy food from a cannery, it is required that you help can the food, whether you're a member or not.
Our little cannery here in Fresno CA is the exception. There is a wife and husband team there who do all of the canning and they don't want help and they are more than happy to volunteer the work and do all the canning for everyone. She says that it's faster that way and they can meet the high demand that we have in this area.
I feel it's always a good thing that if you don't know something about something, and you want to know the truth, always go to the source and find out the answers. I feel that sometimes the internet is a bad way to find out information, because you'll just be getting someone's opinion or assumption. I use the internet everyday as a source of information for my job as a medical transcriptionist, and I have to be very careful when researching that I use a reliable source.
NM - I'm happy to hear that you actually went to the source and wrote to the bishop in your area. Hopefully your questions were answered. It is unfortunate that the two men at the cannery were discriminatory against you... this is definitely not what our religion teaches, but just the opposite. We are taught that each person is a child of God, that each individual is of equal value in the sight of God, that He loves all of his children, and that we should love everyone just the same.
:) Donya
I haven't written the Bishop yet, but plan to.
My friend just told me that they are planning to can wheat in a few days. I am going to volunteer to can, whether I decide to buy some or not. I'm not against helping out a couple of hours (I do volunteer work for lots of other little things around town) and maybe this will help the cannery management to be a bit more open towards me.
It was definitely a weird feeling/situation at the cannery last weekend, and I don't want to repeat that.
-f-