I read that someone fills their fuel filter with Stabil, then runs the engine off of that to basically coat the entire carb with a very rich stabil mixture.
Every hear of doing that? I didn't know Stabil could be burned directly like fuel.
Thoughts?
-f-
Frank I usually put stabil in everything in the fall and run them about 4-5 minutes before shutting down. I guess that is basicly the same w/o the concentration. Hey they start in the spring anyway.
I dump Stabil in my tanks too, but I never heard about running it that rich before, and wondered if any negative issues.
I am shopping for a boat, and another one that I am looking at was winterized like that... he said he filled the fuel filter bowl with Stabil, ran the engine, and fogged it till it died. I didn't ask if he also put stabil in the fuel tank.
Someone else told me that the best way to store a fuel tank over the winter was full of gas.
I wonder what makes fuel go bad? Oxidation? Do you have to Stabil a tank to protect the gas, or is it really just a carb thing?
Frank this is what's on the bottle.
"Stored fuel deteriorates in 60 days causing varnish deposits to build up in engines resulting in starting problems, poor performance and reduced engine life, STA-BIL keeps fuel fresh for 12 months. Plus it contains a water remover to prevent corrosion and a fuel injector and carburetor cleaner to restore power"
The bottle list it as a "fuel stabilyzer".
What happens to gas in the can/tank? First if not sealed completely the lighter components may evaorate, Secondly it may oxidize. Thirdly, over time it can degrade, or so I've read. ???
I've read the Sta-Bil claims on the bottle and figure they may be making the very worst case scenario; after all they want to sell their product.
I do use Sta-Bil in gas I store over the winter up in the mountains. I have concerns that if I don't, I may have problems 5 months later. The gas that sits for maybe a month or so over the rest of the year I don't worry about. However, I try to cycle it through the Jeep after a couple months and refill the cans.
I have had gas in a not properly closed can "go bad". I believe it oxidized as it turned a dark color. There was only a gallon or so and I used it starting a burn pile of slash. Worked well for that!!!
The only other bad thing I've had happen has happened when I've left non stabilized fuel in the chain saw for 4 - 6 months. d* Gummed the carb up.
I think leaving the can/tank almost full is best. You may need a little air for expansion. I have used gas that was stored in Rubbermaid gas cans like that a year after filling with no bad effects noticed in the Jeep. So it might not be as important to use Sta-Bil as the marketing would have us believe. But it doesn't do any harm.
I run small motors dry if I remember to; lawnmower, when I had one. I've never run the RV carb dry, but do use Sta-Bil and pump the tank down and refill yearly. (It basically hasn't moved much for three years now, just a little drive arounf the property once a year.
Now that we are on the discussion. What are the pro's and con's of metal vs. plastic storage containers. I had always heard that plastic is more superior than metal for storage as it will not condense moisture as bad. On a related. Why do they not make good gasoline cans anymore. I hate the self venting cans sold now. I have two "eagle" brand plastic 5 gallons that have a seperate fill/vent and are superior to the self venting.
Yep, I was saddened when Rubbermaid and Gott plastic cans were discontinued. The Blitz plastic cans are crap, IMO. >:( Very easy to find though.
There is no difference between metal and plastic for storgae if both are in good shape. Condensation is no worse in a sealed metal can than in a sealed plastic can. If the can is not sealed you will have problems no matter the type; possibly worse with metal in that case, but I need to be convinced of that.
There are high quality plastic cans out there. I don't recall any names but a look around 4 WD or survival sites may find them. Several guys in our 4X4 club have some. They are usually olive drab or tan in color.
I don't know about running pure Stabil. I wouldn't, but that's just me. I use it in the gas, run them dry and in the spring, use sea foam.
Stabil keeps gas longer than a year. Before 2000, I stored 200 gallons of gas in 55 gallon drums and used the stuff. In 2003, I decided the end wasn't coming just yet so I used it. No problems at all.
One thing that's a little off topic, but related is tuning the carb on small engines. All small engines that I know of, are set lean at the factory. They do this to get by the EPA standards. Running a lean engine will cut the life by 50% or more. To make it worse, I run all my 2 cycle engines on 32:1 gas mix. More oil is better IMHO.
They are all tuned to run at that mix after I break them in. I have very few problems with any of my 2 cycles.
There are too many variables to give a definite answer but some things to consider are, How old is the equipment you are putting the fuel in? Will the rubber parts in it deteriorate from the "ethanol" mixture that may be present in your part of the country or were they made compatible with alcohol? If Sta-Bil can go bad in the jug how is it supposed to protect the gas? Light effects most things like Wine, Milk, and Beer, gas is not exempt therefore metal cans keep out more light than plastic they just RUST d*
Being a mechanic of some sort or another for the past 30 years my experiences have taught me the only way to keep fuel fresh is to buy it fresh and use it in a short amount of time. Most additives prolong the varnish problem but they don't keep the octane (or cetane in #2) from fading. I personally use Sea-Foam because I can put it in anything and it will take tar off your hands after you fix the roof!!! ;D ;D
One more vote for Sea Foam. I used to use stabill to winterize most of my stuff. Then I had a chainsaw which wouldn't start. A friend told me he brought his into a repair shop. The tech told him that he repaired more saws with Stabill used as a stabilizer.
I drained the gas from the non-starting chain saw. Added a good dollop of pure Sea-foam, turned it over a few times and let it sit for an hour. Added some Sea-Foam to the gas and pulled the rope. Started right up. My second saw I only use Sea-foam laced gas year around (I don't cut every day). I just went up and it started on the first pull, after sitting since October. That's what I like to see.
I notice that sea foam says to add it to the crank case too. I have always been wary of oil additives.... anyone try that?
-f-
StaBil is an excellent product
at the farm I have a 150 gal of gas that is 8 years old
I keep putting stabil in it and it runs the my old ford tractor just fine
BUT
It was pure gasoline to start with
non-oxygenated (not reformulated with TBE added) and no Ethanol
It is the oxgen from ethanol and TBE that accelerates the formation of 'varnish' and other compounds that cause the problems
StaBill will help but it is best to start with good gas first
my 2 cents (sometimes a degree in Chemistry is even useful LOL)
We seem to benefit from everybody's experiences - it's all good. :)
Quote from: NM_Shooter on February 09, 2009, 09:34:39 AM
I notice that sea foam says to add it to the crank case too. I have always been wary of oil additives.... anyone try that?
-f-
Careful what you use it in the crankcase on. It does work...maybe a little too well. On older vehicles, much of what keeps the old seals from leaking is built up gunk. It;s not uncommon to use Seafoam in the crankcase and then have to replace seals in the engine.
Another additive that I have found works very well is Marvel Mystery Oil
don't laugh the old toyota truck runs MUCH better with the recomended amount added to the gas (IIRC it is about 1 oz per ten gals)
I don't notice much difference in the Ford Tractor --it probably uses less gas but I don't keep track on the tractor in gals per hour or whatever --just fill it when it runs low
It works in my Cessna too (but don't tell the FAA about it since it is not approved) gets better mileage (about 16 verses 14 mpg without MMO)
That's cool - I just retired my Cessna 205 to the bone yard - corrosion. Fun while it lasted though.
In California non-taxed diesel is red, so if anything red shows up in the fuel it shows as gigantic money making fines for the state. Marvel Mystery oil. Transmission fluid or whatever. Red is dead. They even pull pickups over around here every so often.
Anyone use Seafoam in an outboard motor. I recall my father said once that someone had and it ruined the motor.
Shame about the 205 Glenn
my 170 just turned 58 years old (just like me ;D )
no serious corrosion and the rebuild is almost done
interior and rebuilding the instrument panel yet to be done
mechanically it's a 9 and the paint is a 9.5
just love the darn thing in spite of the financial grief she has put me through
I call her the mistress
here she is with her (wheel)pants off
(https://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/Crockette/trim.jpg)
and here she is as purchased with me trying to learn 'tail dragger'
(https://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/Crockette/IMG_0262.jpg)
Quote from: Redoverfarm on February 09, 2009, 07:22:30 PM
Anyone use Seafoam in an outboard motor. I recall my father said once that someone had and it ruined the motor.
No problem on my 93 Smokercraft. (running a '92 90 horse Mercury). We just bought the 6th 3 year set of tabs for it and all we've ever done is throw in a can of Sea-foam about every third tank. It starts hard cold (has since the day we got it), but once it warms up, never have had a lick of trouble.
We use it quite a bit. Usually every weekend from the beginning of May to the middle of October.
Nice 170, Windpower.
I did 15 trips to Mexico and over the Sierras dozens of times - day and night. Out to the Hot Springs at Saline Valley many times. Night time out of there too - circled around the campfire so I wouldn't hit a mountain until over 10000 feet. My own IFR system.
After I landed here I didn't need to go anywhere else anyway. [waiting]
Quote from: Windpower on February 09, 2009, 09:42:38 AM
StaBil is an excellent product
at the farm I have a 150 gal of gas that is 8 years old
I keep putting stabil in it and it runs the my old ford tractor just fine
BUT
It was pure gasoline to start with
non-oxygenated (not reformulated with TBE added) and no Ethanol
It is the oxgen from ethanol and TBE that accelerates the formation of 'varnish' and other compounds that cause the problems
StaBill will help but it is best to start with good gas first
my 2 cents (sometimes a degree in Chemistry is even useful LOL)
I wouldn't put that old fuel in your Toyota and try to pass a California smog test. [scared] I think their sniffers can smell "stored" fuel and they don't like people stockpilling anything they can control you with n*
Thanks for the compliment Glenn
I'll pass it along to her --she loves compliments
it makes me spend more money on the mistress LOL
Cord, it passed the last smog test in IL burning old gas just fine
-- but it was laced with MMO too
My ex-wife had mentioned that I had spent over $100,000 on the plane - flying - learning to fly, instrument, commercial etc.
I said, "So, your point is?..........." [waiting]
Quote from: Windpower on February 10, 2009, 08:20:28 PM
Thanks for the compliment Glenn
I'll pass it along to her --she loves compliments
it makes me spend more money on the mistress LOL
Cord, it passed the last smog test in IL burning old gas just fine
-- but it was laced with MMO too
Like I stated,....Don't try that in California especially with Marvel oil in the tank! That might even put you in the "Gross Polluter" category of which there is little chance of return. I have a Nissan in the driveway that I bought for $1.00 in California because of the Ca. DMV Gestapo!
My ex-wife had mentioned that I had spent over $100,000 on the plane - flying - learning to fly, instrument, commercial etc.
I said, "So, your point is?..........."
Don't get me started --- I can really relate to that
My bride of 8 years is the best --- marry a woman with a pilot license (she learned in a Champ)
"Tam, the plane needs the engine rebuilt"
"well get it done now so we can fly this summer"
yep find a woman with a pilot license
Sassy has no problem with it but after so much flying in the past - current fuel and repair prices and the corrosion, we pretty much decided it was not that much of a priority.
Besides we have a hole in the ground to live in so don't need to look for more... [waiting] :)