While I wait for my property search to come to an end I have been doing alot of research on basic framing and foundation building. Out of all the plans, blogs, stories I have read about building a small cabin one thing seems to be constant. SCREWS? Nobody seems to use nails anymore for construction. Or should I say HAMMER and NAILS. I see alot of reference to using nail guns and the like.
Is there any benefit to using screws over nails? When I start building I wont have electricity and I dont own a generator (yet), so Ill be swinging the old hammer. Other than the physical labor side of nails are there any cons?
I don't know where you've been looking but screws are not generally an approved fastener for framing. Screws, like the common deck screws are brittle and snap off when subjected to shear loafds. Nails will deform, bend and not break. Deck screws are approved for decks.
Lag screws are used for some purposes but not general framing and sheathing.
Sometimes screws may be used for applying siding like cement board, but even there nails are king.
Drywall would be an exception. Drywall screws are superior to drywall nails. So much so there are special drywall screw guns that feed screws from strips automatically.
I will frequently use deck screws to temporarily secure something. Then I go back and nail. Sometimes I remove the screws, sometimes I don't.
Cement board sheets for tile underlayment is another place where screws may be used. Or nails.
Depending on project size a generator, compressor and air nailer might be a boon. I used both as well as a kit of Ryobi battery powered 18 Volt tools.
That makes me feel better. I always thought that screws where really weak compared to nails. I worked for a company that build modular houses and they where all build with 3" deck screws and lag bolts/screws where used to attach the wall frames to the floor. Then again that company doesnt exist anymore. What penny nails are used for framing?
Quote from: MountainDon on January 14, 2009, 01:51:44 PM
Depending on project size a generator, compressor and air nailer might be a boon. I used both as well as a kit of Ryobi battery powered 18 Volt tools.
Unfortunately my budget doesn't allow for such luxuries :-[ One thing I learned from my dad who has 30+ years of finish woodworking experience is that a good eye, steady hand, and a good quality hand tool can build you anything from a toothpick to castle. Sadly im still building toothpicks.
I still use nails! I really liked and appreciated it when the neighbor's loaned me their nailgun and compressor for laying the floor and framing the walls, but...like you, I'm sticking my money in to building materials right now....and some outside labor.
Nails are fine, great even. Just takes longer and you get big hands.
Quote from: Micah on January 14, 2009, 01:56:17 PM
What penny nails are used for framing?
16D for most framing. 8D for some places; toe nailing for example or roof sheathing. 6D for wall sheathing.
There's a link at the top of
this topic to the IRC2003. (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2590.0) Chapter 6 has a table on fasteners, sizes - where to use, spacing of fasteners and so on inorder to meet the IRC2003 code.
We built our house (1200 sq ft) with 99% screws. (used nails on some trim).. then we decided to add on another 16x20 section. unscrewed all the screws and went to work building and connecting the addition. All the screws were still intact. none had sheared, and no breakage when removing.
Just saying, it can be done. Oh yes, it stood up to the f4 tornado we had here last feb. passed 800 ft west of the house and pulled a few shingles is all.
Our little weekender (900 sqft) was also built "glued-and-screwed". It has stood drum-tight during a number of heavy winds. (It is in a non-coded area.) I like the way screws cinches wood pieces tightly together. Also it is sometimes convenient to pilot drill, then screw things together, to reduce the chance of wood splits. I have only noticed screws sometimes breaking upon installation, they can get extremely hot then.
However, we must recognize that screws are not the approved method for framing ... and there is probably good reasoning behind this. If I were building in a coded area, I would probably use screws for their ease ... and then add sufficient nails to meet code.
I will add a couple things to this nails vs screws discussion...
Screws do seem to have advantages over nails. Easier to remove if there's an oops. They draw two pieces together. No swinging a hammer.
IF you are in a code area, ask the inspector if he would pass the framing and sheathing if you used screws. I would be quite surprised if the answer was yes, go ahead, no problem.
IF you don't have to be concerned with code inspections think about what might be best...
Take a piece of scrap 2x; drive a 16D nail into it about 1.5". Screw one of the 3" screws you want to use into the block of wood the same 1.5". Give each a sideways whack with a hammer. When I do that the crew shears off and the nail bends. ???
Not all the screws are going to break. IF you can build the structure so there are no shear forces in play the chances of screws breaking is greatly reduced. However keep in mind that when a nailed joint fails it does it very slowly because the nail bends. The screwed joint on the other hand will fail with sudden and some times catastrophic results.
I have used screws in a number of building applications such as sheds, playground equipment and sun shelters. I have also found sheared screws from time to time. For myself I will only use them for things that need to be held in place on a horizontal plane, like deck boards. I will never use them for framing or to install joists or beams that need to support vertical loading or that may be subject to racking forces where failure could lead to a collapse. Screws are ideal for drywall, for hanging cabinets on the wall, installing door hinges and so on.
Of course, as always, that's just my take on the matter.
Keep in mind that if one chooses to use screws they should never be overdriven. That is, screwed in too far so the head is drawn into the wood. Nails driven like that will not be as strong especially when used for securing sheathing. Ditto screws. Might not be so bad on framing material. Nails overdriven on sheathing will earn a red tag.
Screws make sense if you are going to take it apart or if you need their ability to draw things together.
If you are concerned about the holding power of nails drive a cement coated sinker and let it sit for a few days, then try to remove it.
There are also ring shank and screw shank nails.
Some nails are plastic coated. When machine driven the heat causes the plastic to melt and it acts like glue once the nail cools down. When I built my FL house Senco had coated ring shank nails. Once driven they were all but impossible to remove.
It's been my observation that the best tool for dismantling something secured with cement or plastic coating and air driven spirals and ring shanks, is a sawzall with metal cutting blade. :D
As for drawing framing members together I use a few Bessey bar clamps and/or c-clamps where they fit.
I use nails for all my framing. However if my foundation is post and Pier and I used pressure treated wood I use stainless steel screws for anything fastened to the pressure treat. That stuff will disolve most metals.
deck
Excellent point regarding PT wood fasteners.
I use a nailgun for practically everthing. Brad gun for moulding and cabinet work.
However, I will use hammer and nail for shingles. I have a coil gun but found the nails were either overdriven into the shingle, or underdriven. Then requiring extra hammering.
I do use some screws for cabinets. I have found using a pocket jig with screws quick and solid.
Also, I use Hot Dipped Galvanized nails when working with Pressure Treated Lumber. . .
"As for drawing framing members together I use a few Bessey bar clamps and/or c-clamps where they fit."
I use a hammer and nail, personally.
Nails in new construction, screws in renovation, is generally how it goes. I guess its from noise maybe, I have never figured it out. Usually stick with nails, hand or power driven myself, except finish work. Usually I'll use a nail here and there, sometimes lining up the crown, or casing, or to pull it nice and tight, then nail it off.
I use nails and my nail gun does a pretty good job bring stuff together if you push it into the wood and shoot the nail at the right time.
I built a deck where I used to live and used deck screws, not the same since it was outside, but after about a year of building it I moved and sold the trailer I lived in so I took the deck apart so I could reuse it. I probably had half the screws break off when I tried to remove them. I even had one of the 3/8 galvanized lag bolt, that held the rim joist to the post, break off when I tried to remove it.
Taylor