Obama made another speech today. He has big plans.
1. make all federal government buildings more energy efficient
2. build roads and bridges
3. modernize and upgrade public schools
4. increase broadband capacity
5. modernize health care system (computers and inter connection)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGpIT2bVZDw&eurl=http://news.aol.com/?feature=261147&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGpIT2bVZDw&eurl=http://news.aol.com/?feature=261147&feature=player_embedded)
I saw that Don, but didn't read it carefully. I got the impression he was paving the way for a modern CCC program.
What's he going to pay them with, the good faith of the United States Government?
It only took FDR 37 days from the time of his inauguration to the day the first person was enrolled in the CCC.
I wonder if Obama is aware of that and is trying to beat the record?
Obama is a master of the right words.
I'm sure that's what is causing the hot air rally in the stock market.
It will be interesting to see what he will do come work day one.
In a few months there could be a lot of people saying 'hey, I didn't vote for this.'
The idea of having to work as opposed to just getting a check might not appeal to them.
FDR's CCC and WPA did work to a degree...but it seems to me people were more willing to work back then.
seems to me if government sponsored work programs were the ticket to national prosperity Russia would have faired better with the system.
It's like a race to the bottom.
Agreed Muldoon, that's why I used the phrase 'to a degree'. Many large projects were engaged in the 1930's...roads....dams...bridges, etc. But it was unsustainable. FDR needed something much bigger. Will Obama?
Quote from: sparks on December 07, 2008, 12:50:53 AM
The idea of having to work as opposed to just getting a check might not appeal to them.
Not sure I understand this. There are plenty of unemployed construction workers who had no problem working for a living before the economy tanked. What makes you think they and millions of others who are recently unemployed would not want to go back to work?
I would bet he was talking about the ones who haven't worked for years who may have to do something to get a check. I've seen that type.
That is what I was thinking too Glenn. Instead of getting SSI checks to sit at home (speaking of those who are ACTUALLY able to work) on disability for no true reason is not going to be appealing at all. I hope he does make such reforms. I work in a doctor's office and see people almost daily who come in wanting to sign up for disability when, in fact, they are not truly disabled. They get arthroscopies on joints and all of the sudden they become disabled - PLEASE!
They'd be fine if they'd just stay out of the joints. d*
Quote from: Pox Eclipse on December 07, 2008, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: sparks on December 07, 2008, 12:50:53 AM
The idea of having to work as opposed to just getting a check might not appeal to them.
Not sure I understand this. There are plenty of unemployed construction workers who had no problem working for a living before the economy tanked. What makes you think they and millions of others who are recently unemployed would not want to go back to work?
Pox, I surely was not refering to those with a bonafide positive work ethic, but more to people that would believe Obama's reply to Joe the plumber..."spreading the wealth around"
It appears to me there is a certain 'element' in this country that feels it is 'owed'. I know that could be a controversial thing to say......but I'm not blind.
I saw a show on TV that went and found people who claimed that they were unable to work in order to get disability money. Private investigators would follow them around and record them doing things that they claimed they couldn't do because of their disability.
One older lady claimed that she could barely walk. They filmed her walking into the courthouse, she moved very slowly and was leaning on someone else. Then they filmed her at her home carrying grocery bags, sweeping the porch, and walking without any trouble.
My intention of telling this is not to show that people cheat to get disability...it is to show the attitude that these people had.
A camera crew talked to the old lady on her doorstep. She couldn't speak English, so a younger girl, about 14, was translating for her. They asked her about what they had seen and the younger girl lied about everything they asked her. Then they told her that they had evidence that the grandma was doing these things.
Here is what the girl's response entailed...to the best of my memory: "she can't take care of herself, is America just going to let her die?"
The U.S.A. no longer exists on the premise "don't ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," instead it has reversed to "what can my country do for me."
My last response was in defense of what Sparks said.
A society that can't train and employee all of it's people will have to feed those it's let down or risk them turning to crime to support themselves. If that happens they'll have to feed them anyway. Which way is cheaper? I've seen alot of people on disability that aren't really disabled but then again most of them aren't employable either.
Scott, are you saying it 'takes a village' ?
I think he is talking about ..like.... deer and hog feeders before open season... d*
Quote from: ScottA on December 07, 2008, 04:42:58 PM
A society that can't train and employee all of it's people will have to feed those it's let down or risk them turning to crime to support themselves. If that happens they'll have to feed them anyway. Which way is cheaper? I've seen alot of people on disability that aren't really disabled but then again most of them aren't employable either.
Is it really societies fault?? Is it societies fault if I choose not to go to school? Is it societies fault if I am lazy?
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it's societies fault if people do not fit into the workforce. It is the individuals fault. But yes, at that point it becomes societies responsibility to care for them, or at least that is the way it is now.
I guess it is not such a bad thing if society does not properly train and employ everyone because of the law of unintended consequences. There is a balance. How many millions of people do criminals employ? Judges, police, probation officers, insurance agencies, and the media. And people may argue against police, or people on gov't salaries, but just remember that the money they earn goes right back into the economy so it's not necessarily a waste.
Quote from: peternap on December 06, 2008, 10:44:49 PM
What's he going to pay them with, the good faith of the United States Government?
Well, actually, yes, but not as permanent solution (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/opinion/01krugman.html?_r=1), which is what Russia was trying to do. Not really a fair comparison.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on December 07, 2008, 05:49:20 PM
I think he is talking about ..like.... deer and hog feeders before open season... d*
Ouch!! :(
To get back to Don's original post, a short story.
In early 1983, I was going thru a divorce and living at my parents home.
Dad asked what I had planned. My response was 'I don't know'.
To which he replied..you best figure it out....before I do it for you.
.I got the point............
QuoteIs it really societies fault?? Is it societies fault if I choose not to go to school? Is it societies fault if I am lazy?
Doesn't matter who's fault it is. Your choices are:
Give them a job.
Give them money.
Put them in jail.
Kill them.
You pick the one you like.
Could you do a poll on this?
Quote from: ScottA on December 07, 2008, 07:19:29 PM
QuoteIs it really societies fault?? Is it societies fault if I choose not to go to school? Is it societies fault if I am lazy?
Doesn't matter who's fault it is. Your choices are:
Give them a job.
Give them money.
Put them in jail.
Kill them.
You pick the one you like.
It doesn't matter who's falt it is ??? Sure it does I think as Sonoran has pointed out it is the individuals falt.
Quote from: MountainDon on December 06, 2008, 10:41:31 PM
Obama made another speech today. He has big plans.
1. make all federal government buildings more energy efficient
2. build roads and bridges
3. modernize and upgrade public schools
4. increase broadband capacity
5. modernize health care system (computers and inter connection)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGpIT2bVZDw&eurl=http://news.aol.com/?feature=261147&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGpIT2bVZDw&eurl=http://news.aol.com/?feature=261147&feature=player_embedded)
What the ??? 1 though 5 are all ready happening :-\
Quote from: sparks on December 07, 2008, 01:54:15 PMPox, I surely was not refering to those with a bonafide positive work ethic, but more to people that would believe Obama's reply to Joe the plumber..."spreading the wealth around"
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the proposal to rebuild the US infrastructure with government-funded construction projects.
You know what? Maybe I should be one of that particular element that feels as though I am "owed".
I've worked and paid taxes every year of my life since I was 14.
I went to school on student loans and paid every dime back.
My dad paid Social Security for 45 years, and died only 18 months after he retired. I'll probably never see a dime of the social security that I am paying in.
I've never drawn unemployment, food stamps, welfare, and didn't even qualify for the economic stimulus checks that went out.
Nobody is bailing me out on my mortgage.
I see illegals getting free health care, free educations, housing, food, discounted transportation. I qualify for none of that.
On top of that, I donate time and money to charitable organizations, schools, and other community needs.
But you know what? I'm okay as is. At least until my taxes are raised.
Then somebody better at least send me some free damn cheese. >:(
Just one slice.
-f-
rofl
Free cheese? You're dreamin'
Interesting discussion.....
Pox is right, there is a whole workforce that needs and wants work and will jump at the program.
There is also the other side of the coin and they are the professional welfare families that don't know how to work, don't want to work and will hopefully, starve. During the depression we had the same thing though. The Hobo's weren't the fun loving adventurers we think of. They were for the most part, lazy dangerous people who would rather steal than work.
I never really understood the cheese thing..... ???
"I never really understood the cheese thing"
Cheese (processed) is from food "surpluses" stockpiled by the government as part of milk price supports. Butter is also stockpiled, and then provided under a subsidized food program like WIC and welfare.
The price support on dairy products is a form of price control with the intended effect of keeping the market price higher than the market would normally bear.
I think it started in the 1980's, because that is when the government bought out a bunch of the dairy farms out here.
You mentioned one of my favorite pet peeves, considerations.
I repaired a well for a big dairy owner who was doing a $100,000 remodel on his house to make it look like a mansion, but called me a robber when I repaired his well so he could have water for his dairy and actually charged him for the repair work at the standard going rate.