CountryPlans Forum

I couldn't help it.........That poll thingy is cool.... ;D


Personally, I feel someone is about to become pres of the US, and this country is not
ready for it. Just my gut opinion.


Sparks

Quote from: sparks on November 03, 2008, 08:33:13 PM
I couldn't help it.........That poll thingy is cool.... ;D

Sparks

Agreed!

I voted....mostly hopeful thinking.

An interesting sidenote. I usually ignore internet rumors or hysteria....but in talking with a number of friends with local Police Departments and state agencies, it seems that they are all preparing for trouble.

I did a little snooping in the Black neighborhoods and in talking to people I know, found to my surprise, many aren't voting for Obama. These are fairly intelligent people (even the ones that are voting for him). They are telling me that the problems probably will happen but they will happen in the slums with the less informed blacks (That wasn't exactly the way it was phrased but this is a family board ::))

So never to be accused of not overreacting, have all the vehicles gassed up, A shotgun, rifle and handgun in each one...and a weeks supply of popcorn! ;D

Not from the internet but from another source, there is a possible plan for supposedly unstoppable 3 way race riots and martial law soon also.  (Possibly after Osama  bama, I meant bama is assassinated) Note that I am not suggesting this -- It is something I was told about.  A wait and see thing I guess.

Another bowl of popcorn, please...

I couldn't believe something that was on the news yesterday... locally.  A group had organized and marched to the county election board to vote early, probably 200-400 people, and they're all holding signs supporting Obama and making a lot of noise, stopping traffic, etc.  Anyway, the reporter talked to one guy and he says something along the lines of, "Yeah, it's time fo' all them fat ol' Good Ol' Boys to go home and start tendin' they crops and cows and get someone who knows what he's doin' in there."  I couldn't help but think, if the shoe were on the other foot and it was some white guy saying something similar about black politicians, there'd be a riot.  Everyone would be screaming "racist", etc.  However, the reporter managed a fairly straight face through most of it, but then when he tried to say that the march had been organized by churches and civic groups as a "non-partisan" Get Out the Vote activity, he almost choked on the word, and you could tell he thought it was a joke.  Our pastor and church is predominately black and Hispanic, yet none of them seem to be voting for Obama, and the pastor has been very critical of him from the pulpit (which I'm sure isn't PC, but he doesn't care, as he doesn't care if the church is tax exempt or not.)  They don't seem thrilled with McCain, either, but seem to choose him as the lesser of two evils.  I think that there are some of them who would like to see a black man as president in a way, but they can't support his platform.   Whew.  I'll just be glad when the election is over.  I plan on walking down the street to vote as soon as the kids finish their breakfast this morning...want to get down there and back before any craziness erupts.  Got the popcorn handy.   ::)

There have been white people saying that about black politicians.  They are all over the internet on full display.  You can watch it on CNN even. No riots.  If you have not heard that from a single white person not voting for Obama because he is black, congratulations.  I haven't stopped hearing it from people. No minority politician has ever gotten to the presidential level.  The only president that was not a white Anglo Saxon protestant male president in the 232 years of the united states was Kennedy, and he didn't even survive a full term. Speaking of assignation, Kennedy was assassinated and passionately supported by less informed white Catholics.  No riots.  I don't think we have to fear black people or the race wars that the KKK keep telling me are coming.

Here are the voting problems in central Va. So far.
Gonna be a long night.

REPORTED PROBLEMS:

    * 308 precint Library
      Librarian overslept did not open until 5:55am and voters let in at 6:25am
    * Swift Creek Middle School-Midlothian
      Machines stopped working -- no techanican on site. Long lines, hundreds of people waiting in line. Paper ballots were given out and filled out but can not be used because of broken machines. Ballots are being put in a metal container. Voters are worried about their votes being counted and privacy.
    * Tucker Middle School Polling Station-Henrico-Parham RoadLine wrapped around building
    * Math and Science Center-on Hoffman
      2 out of 9 machines are working
    * Godwin School-Pump Road
      Out of 7 machines 1 is working.
      Handing out paper ballots without any instructions on how to fill out ballets.
      Voters feel uneasy that their votes are not being counted.
    * MT. Herman Chruch-Genito Road/Mt. Herman near West Woodland
      Traffic backed up because people have been parking in the streets and blocking the main highway.
    * Precint 108-Hunting-Henrico County
      Voting machines not working.
      Paper ballots are being filled out but put in an open brief case.
      Voters have no way of knowing if their vote will be counted.
    * Glen Allen Library
      Lines shorter
    * Colonial Heights Middle School
      Just long lines
    * Clover Hill High School
      Broken machines
    * Good Shepherd Church (Petersburg)
      Voting machines broken
    * Greenwood Elementary
      Only one voting machine working
    * Main Street Station
      Long Lines-elderly poll workers slow and requiring voters to have picture id with voter registration
    * Union Station in Petersburg
      Long lines, no machines working
    * Hermitage Road
      4 out of 9 machines are down
    * Wilder Middle School-Henrico
      1 out of 5 polling machines are working
    * Jahnke Road-District 9-Chesterfield Square
      Lines were long
      Voter stood in line from 5am to 7:30am
    * Poll Green
      Unorganinzed chaotic
    * Southside Baptist-6000 Iron Bridge
      Cars being towed by WAWA
    * Hanover Rescue Squad
      Handwritten ballots

ONE thing I have to give Gov Bill of NM credit for is having us go back to using paper ballots. We had machines and loads of troubles too a few elections ago. Of course that doesn't prevent other screwups, like not having enough ballots.

They are tabulated by machine, but the vote is on paper.


Why is it so hard to make a voting machine work? ATM's work great with keeping an accurate balance and are seldom down for service.

Report from Cottage Grove MN:

No lines at 10:00 this morning.  Extra booths up to accommodate the anticipated voters.

Took me less than 5 minutes from the time I entered the parking lot.

One of the good reasons to live in Minnesota.

It took about 45 minutes to get in line, go through and vote.  Not bad.  DH had to wait an hour and a half this morning, and he was there when the polls opened.  The folks did ask for a photo ID, which I gave them along with my voter ID.  There was only one machine (the ballots are paper, but they go through a machine to tabulate the votes... kind of feel like a kid at achievment test time, only with a marker instead of the #2 pencil.

Quote from: Squirl on November 04, 2008, 09:31:06 AM
There have been white people saying that about black politicians.  They are all over the internet on full display.  You can watch it on CNN even. No riots.  If you have not heard that from a single white person not voting for Obama because he is black, congratulations.  I haven't stopped hearing it from people. No minority politician has ever gotten to the presidential level.  The only president that was not a white Anglo Saxon protestant male president in the 232 years of the united states was Kennedy, and he didn't even survive a full term. Speaking of assignation, Kennedy was assassinated and passionately supported by less informed white Catholics.  No riots.  I don't think we have to fear black people or the race wars that the KKK keep telling me are coming.

No, I don't know of a single person who is not voting for Obama because of his race.  It matters very little to me what color someone's skin is (if you don't believe me, check out our family photo).  What does matter, though,  are issues.  I congratulate Obama for making it this far in the process, but just as I wouldn't vote AGAINST someone because of the color of his skin, neither would I vote FOR someone because of the color of his skin... seems like a silly reason to vote for someone, and what I got out of the news broadcast I mentioned earlier was that these people didn't give a rip about any of the issues, but were simply voting for him because he was black.  No mention was made of any reasons for voting for him other than the fact that he is black (or, should we get technical, I'd say he's more brown.)  It reminds me of when I was in college taking a Native American Literature class.  I made a statement one day that I thought that the only reason that some of the books we were required to read were classified as literature was that they were written by Native Americans, and if the same story had been written by a black or white person, it would have been in the bargain book rack down at Hasting's. Keep in mind, I was the only Native American in the class, but the ferocity I experienced for saying such an outrageous thing was unimaginable.  My prof wrote on one of my papers, "Geez, you really just don't get it, do you?" and gave me a "C" even though the only problem with the paper was that I didn't agree with him that it was somehow great literature.  I am not saying racism doesn't exist, but I think it is much rarer than people think, and it goes both ways... it isn't just white folks against the world.  And a lot of stuff that gets billed as racism is not, plain and simple.  Good grief, it gets to the point where you aren't even entitled to an opinion... if you're critical of anything, it seems like the race card always comes up.  And FWIW, I have NEVER accepted government handouts just because I could get them because of my race.  It is an insult to my intelligence and ability to do for myself.  Anyway, sorry to drift so far from the original topic, but it is one of my hot button issues ever since I can remember.

Good for you Homegrown Tomatoes.
I have always wondered why there are so many people that worry about the color of one's skin.
You can't pick it out when you are born.

If we were invaded by aliens tomorrow do you think that it would matter what race you were from anymore?

I work with people of all nationalities around the world & different races...  I haven't heard anything about race being a factor in who people are voting for...  in fact, I was surprised that so many people I would have thought would vote for Obama, are voting for McCain or Chuck Baldwin (Constitutional ticket).  I only know of 1 person who is voting for Obama - she is black & her husband is white.  Most of Obama's stand on the issues are against her beliefs (abortion, same sex marriage, the bailout etc) She is very bright - I think it is more that he would be the 1st black (actually partially black) president, if he made it.  So I guess she would be the only one voting for Obama due to race... 

I vote absentee ballot... can't believe all the problems they're having where you live, Peternap!  Wonder what is happening other places...  I don't trust the machines...  there's no paper trail...

Many people fail to realize that most African Americans would be voting for Obama no matter what race he is.  He is a democrat.  African Americans have traditionally voted almost 90% for democrats for president since Lyndon Johnson pushed through civil rights.  Whether they have conservative values or not, when most dixiecrats became republicans they stopped voting republican.  The republican party has not made a concerted effort to reach out to African Americans since.  It is more about party identification than race.

I'm proud that people like all of you still exist. That is the way folks should be...Unfortunately, there aren't many around and I have confessed several times, I'm not as open minded,
Here's a good example why:

Voting Intimidation By Black Panthers In Philadelphia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCeD1RcJjAg

Quote from: Squirl on November 04, 2008, 01:54:15 PM
Many people fail to realize that most African Americans would be voting for Obama no matter what race he is.  He is a democrat.  African Americans have traditionally voted almost 90% for democrats for president since Lyndon Johnson pushed through civil rights.  Whether they have conservative values or not, when most dixiecrats became republicans they stopped voting republican.  The republican party has not made a concerted effort to reach out to African Americans since.  It is more about party identification than race.

I agree with that statement.  I also would add everyone in this nation who works for a union.  And then add in a few other demographics that typically vote along the same party lines.  (think entitlement receivership).  The funny thing to me is that poor people have been voting democratic for decades and their still poor. 

I have not heard anyone voting for Obama because he is black, but I have heard a few who are voting for him.  Most who have saidf that essentially said it was more to do with NOT voting for McCaine than specifically voting for Obama.  While they may have joined his bandwagon when I ask why it's the same tired message, Bush this Bush that - we have to change it .. change to what?  no one knows they just know it has to go.    I'm not saying I agree with this, but I do understand the point of view.  Of course I have heard the opposite, the I cannot vote for him crowd.  I understand that too as he truly has some very unlikable qualities. 

As for myself, I do not believe there is any functioning difference between the two of them.  They may disagree on the some flash and current event soundbites they are two faces of the same coin.  It is very easy to blame other people for your problems; in fact current politics has been based on this philosophy for decades.  Rich people - look at those poor people taking your money; poor people - look at those rich people with all the money.  Politicians are on no ones side in my opinion, they just cater to a different base for support.   

I think McCaine will give us a continual slow decline with the same bad policies. 
I think Obama will give us a much faster decline with new bad policies. 
Finally, I think Americans will finally get fed up with the state were in if the change is fast and drastic. 

Thats why I voted for change.  I purposely picked what I believe to be the worse of two evils on those grounds.  god help me. 

QuoteI think McCaine will give us a continual slow decline with the same bad policies. 
I think Obama will give us a much faster decline with new bad policies. 
Finally, I think Americans will finally get fed up with the state were in if the change is fast and drastic. 

Sadly I don't think this will happen. They are careful to test our limits when changes are imposed. If they go too far like they did with fuel prices they back off for a bit. But bit by bit we are inched closer to their goals.

This election like most elections for the past 50 years is an illusion. You are a cow in a chute and at some point you are given a choice to go left or right only to have the two chutes reconverge later on. The sick trick is to make you belive you have actualy chosen your own path but the truth is there was never any obvious choice. The path that goes unnoticed by the vast mass of humanity is that of climbing over the fence. That path has hazards that are taught to all of us and that we quickly learned. Climb over the fence and you'll be hit in the rump with a hot shot. For those that don't know what that is it like a taser for cows. We had those long before anyone ever heard of a taser. You think it's strange that a device that was once used only for livestock is now used on humans? Even the hot shot won't stop all the cattle though some still get out but sadly few if any ever get away for long.

You go ahead and chose the chute you like, red or blue it doen't really matter. As for me I'm climbing over the fence and taking my chances. 

Quote from: muldoon on November 04, 2008, 02:24:55 PM

Quote from: Squirl on November 04, 2008, 01:54:15 PM
Many people fail to realize that most African Americans would be voting for Obama no matter what race he is.  He is a democrat.  African Americans have traditionally voted almost 90% for democrats for president since Lyndon Johnson pushed through civil rights.  Whether they have conservative values or not, when most dixiecrats became republicans they stopped voting republican.  The republican party has not made a concerted effort to reach out to African Americans since.  It is more about party identification than race.

I agree with that statement.  I also would add everyone in this nation who works for a union.  And then add in a few other demographics that typically vote along the same party lines.  (think entitlement receivership).  The funny thing to me is that poor people have been voting democratic for decades and their still poor. 

I have not heard anyone voting for Obama because he is black, but I have heard a few who are voting for him.  Most who have saidf that essentially said it was more to do with NOT voting for McCaine than specifically voting for Obama.  While they may have joined his bandwagon when I ask why it's the same tired message, Bush this Bush that - we have to change it .. change to what?  no one knows they just know it has to go.    I'm not saying I agree with this, but I do understand the point of view.  Of course I have heard the opposite, the I cannot vote for him crowd.  I understand that too as he truly has some very unlikable qualities. 

As for myself, I do not believe there is any functioning difference between the two of them.  They may disagree on the some flash and current event soundbites they are two faces of the same coin.  It is very easy to blame other people for your problems; in fact current politics has been based on this philosophy for decades.  Rich people - look at those poor people taking your money; poor people - look at those rich people with all the money.  Politicians are on no ones side in my opinion, they just cater to a different base for support.   

I think McCaine will give us a continual slow decline with the same bad policies. 
I think Obama will give us a much faster decline with new bad policies. 
Finally, I think Americans will finally get fed up with the state were in if the change is fast and drastic. 

Thats why I voted for change.  I purposely picked what I believe to be the worse of two evils on those grounds.  god help me. 

Muldoon, I tend to agree with the last part of what you said... that McCain will be a more gradual (more innocuous looking?) decline, but Obama will be swift move down and I understand the hopes that Americans will get fed up with fast and drastic decline.  However, I think most Americans are really oblivious to what's going on, and I really mean most, and I'm not sure that they'll get fed up fast enough to actually do anything about it, so therefore, I voted for more of the same.  I mean, when gas shot up to $4 a gallon, I still saw folks buzzing here and there in their Hummers and Navigators... it seems like they were annoyed, but not asking the questions and demanding answers like they should have been. 

Our next door neighbor is a union boss.  Nice folks, really.  Girls and I walked down to the polling place a few blocks away and the neighbor lady drove about the same time.  We ended up in line next to one another.  Their yard is peppered with Obama signs and signs for the democrat challenging Jim Inhofe's seat in the senate.  I thought, well, here we are basically cancelling out each other's votes.

Quote from: ScottA on November 04, 2008, 04:52:57 PM

QuoteI think McCaine will give us a continual slow decline with the same bad policies. 
I think Obama will give us a much faster decline with new bad policies. 
Finally, I think Americans will finally get fed up with the state were in if the change is fast and drastic. 

Sadly I don't think this will happen. They are careful to test our limits when changes are imposed. If they go too far like they did with fuel prices they back off for a bit. But bit by bit we are inched closer to their goals.

This election like most elections for the past 50 years is an illusion. You are a cow in a chute and at some point you are given a choice to go left or right only to have the two chutes reconverge later on. The sick trick is to make you belive you have actualy chosen your own path but the truth is there was never any obvious choice. The path that goes unnoticed by the vast mass of humanity is that of climbing over the fence. That path has hazards that are taught to all of us and that we quickly learned. Climb over the fence and you'll be hit in the rump with a hot shot. For those that don't know what that is it like a taser for cows. We had those long before anyone ever heard of a taser. You think it's strange that a device that was once used only for livestock is now used on humans? Even the hot shot won't stop all the cattle though some still get out but sadly few if any ever get away for long.

You go ahead and chose the chute you like, red or blue it doen't really matter. As for me I'm climbing over the fence and taking my chances. 

If enough of us climb the fence maybe they will put in more chutes........ Or just make the fence higher! >:(

But I kind of though it reminded me of a Blue and a Red OUTHOUSE! They are both so full of it! ::)

Interesting quotes....

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
-- Thomas Jefferson

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
-- Sir Alexander Fraser Tyler

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Frank

Thanks to all of you that took the time to stop by here and vote.

I believe we know who the real losers are now.




Sparks

There can be no winners.

The country has  a couple of months for the real truth of him to come out. Our country deserves to know the truth about him being a citizen of this country and the fraudulent votes he got for in my opinion he stole the
election (Ohio, Philadelphia Acorn found fraud votes) which the liberal judge let go.
I believe as far as this country; it is the beginning of the end. I am not in denial but the people who voted
for him are.

Funny the court threw the Kenya birth out rather than address it and put it to rest.  Look for that to continue and another -resident is installed by the court.

DH mentioned this morning as we were hashing over politics about the fact that South Korea elected a Japanese born Korean man as their president (if you know anything about the history of the region, it is surprising.)  Now there is an uproar because one of the first things he did was to travel to Japan and bow to the Japanese.  We talked about the fact that a "vote for change" in S. Korea has resulted in destabilization of the area and some diplomatic tight spots.  I think America is in for worse than that...don't be surprised if in the next few years the gov is trying to micromanage every aspect of your life.

Nearly all of our people including Resident Osama have sworn support for or are dual Israeli citizens.  I don't recall any of them swearing support for the United States of America.

I don't know why people think being born in Kenya matters.  From a constitutional argument it is moot.  His mother was an american citizen.  It doesn't matter where she was in the world when she gave birth, he is still a natural born citizen.  It is a good stance because any one of us who is an american doesn't want the thought that our children would have a chance of not being citizens. The Federal Election Committee decided that in 2000 when McCain ran for president because he was born in Panama.

I don't doubt there was fraud found in Philadelphia.  I have moved all over the state of Pennsylvania ans spent most of my life here.  But Obamas vote margin in Pennsylvania was so huge (600,000) votes. You could take away the entire margin he won philadelphia by and he would still have won the state.  If he stole the PA election he managed to engineer over half a million votes in suburban areas that are controled by republicans and have repbublican representatives.  Being one of the people of PA, we would have noticed that.  

Ohio?  I have no idea, I'm not from Ohio.  He may have stolen Ohio.  But again that is moot.  He won in an electoral landslide. You could take away everystate he did not win by 10% and he would still be president.  We have all had a reminder that the popular vote in this country doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

It eem he think it matters as he ran on fraudulent papers that said maybe he was born in Hawaii.  I wonder why he bothered if it doesn't matter? hmm

Contrary to the pessimism and jaded dogma you hear on this and other blogs, there is now a chance for a fresh look at America - both from the viewpoint of the world and from the inside of the ever surprising American Story...

Adjustments are going to be made over the coming months and many may be willing to put aside their fears and worn dogma and join in an effort to reinvent the country they share.

America will never be perfect, it will never be able to make everyone happy, but we can make a start at being "one people". We can try to live the experiment as a participant once again.

There is new hope afoot in America. Take a step out into the light and see if that sun doesn't have a ray or two of warmth shining on you.

There would have been a fresh look for America if either Red or Blue won.  However, we now have the following:

A president who has vowed to de-weaponize space.  Decrease our military strength, and hobble our ability to protect ourselves.

A president who was launched to fame by those who hate the US.

A president who has (admitted by her own thesis) a wife who is a bigot.

A president who wants to increase tax on corporations (can't you hear the sucking sound as corporations move themselves and jobs offshore?)

A president who wants to "spread the wealth", but can't quite seem to figure out just yet where that income threshold is.

A president who looks down on those who are guided by Christianity.

A president who has no respect for the 2nd amendment.

A new democrat president who also has a democrat senate and a democrat house.  Won't that be fun.

A new president who was elected via groups who admitted to building a completely bogus voting base.

A new president who allowed "washed" funds to come into his campaign treasury by not checking addresses on credit card donations.

I just hope that the new view that others will be taking of us won't be through a bomb sight.  Anybody want to bet that Biden was right about being tested?

None of us may be as smart as all of us.... but God help us when the less intelligent ones set the course. 

Quote from: NM_Shooter on November 05, 2008, 10:43:24 AM
There would have been a fresh look for America if either Red or Blue won.  However, we now have the following:

A president who has vowed to de-weaponize space.  Decrease our military strength, and hobble our ability to protect ourselves.

A president who was launched to fame by those who hate the US.

A president who has (admitted by her own thesis) a wife who is a bigot.

A president who wants to increase tax on corporations (can't you hear the sucking sound as corporations move themselves and jobs offshore?)

A president who wants to "spread the wealth", but can't quite seem to figure out just yet where that income threshold is.

A president who looks down on those who are guided by Christianity.

A president who has no respect for the 2nd amendment.

A new democrat president who also has a democrat senate and a democrat house.  Won't that be fun.

A new president who was elected via groups who admitted to building a completely bogus voting base.

A new president who allowed "washed" funds to come into his campaign treasury by not checking addresses on credit card donations.

I just hope that the new view that others will be taking of us won't be through a bomb sight.  Anybody want to bet that Biden was right about being tested?

None of us may be as smart as all of us.... but God help us when the less intelligent ones set the course. 

I read it was all a dream:

Louis Winthorpe III: I had the most absurd nightmare. I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me and it was all because of this terrible, awful Negro.

Quote from: ScottA on November 04, 2008, 04:52:57 PM

QuoteI think McCaine will give us a continual slow decline with the same bad policies. 
I think Obama will give us a much faster decline with new bad policies. 
Finally, I think Americans will finally get fed up with the state were in if the change is fast and drastic. 

Sadly I don't think this will happen. They are careful to test our limits when changes are imposed. If they go too far like they did with fuel prices they back off for a bit. But bit by bit we are inched closer to their goals.

This election like most elections for the past 50 years is an illusion. You are a cow in a chute and at some point you are given a choice to go left or right only to have the two chutes reconverge later on. The sick trick is to make you belive you have actualy chosen your own path but the truth is there was never any obvious choice. The path that goes unnoticed by the vast mass of humanity is that of climbing over the fence. That path has hazards that are taught to all of us and that we quickly learned. Climb over the fence and you'll be hit in the rump with a hot shot. For those that don't know what that is it like a taser for cows. We had those long before anyone ever heard of a taser. You think it's strange that a device that was once used only for livestock is now used on humans? Even the hot shot won't stop all the cattle though some still get out but sadly few if any ever get away for long.

You go ahead and chose the chute you like, red or blue it doen't really matter. As for me I'm climbing over the fence and taking my chances. 

I agree. I would also point out that getting hit in the rump with a hotshot is vastly preferable to getting hit in the head with a sledge hammer, which is the inevitable consequence of staying in the (either!) chute. I vote to climb the fence, run like hell, and damn the hotshots!  Also interesting to me is the deafening media silence concerning the "other" black presidential candidate, Alan Keyes. Is it possible the gatekeepers don't like his politics? Naaah, they wouldn't discriminate just because he believes in constructionist constitutionalism, personal responsibility, and limited government.........would they?

Harry51, I believe most Americans have not a clue who Alan Keyes even is, let alone know he's black, even if he has run for president three times.

That's the sad reality, MountainDon. It speaks volumes about the electorate as well as the mainstream media. It's going to be an interesting next 4 years......

Quote...why people think being born in Kenya matters...

Exactly Squirl! It does not matter at all because all it takes is for one parent to be a US Citizen. That and registering the birth with the US Consulate. This is simply smoke and mirrors raised by some in a desperate attempt to discredit Obama. The same thing was raised by some on the other side of the fence about John McCain earlier in this election season as well.

Quote from: MountainDon on November 05, 2008, 12:16:16 PM

Quote...why people think being born in Kenya matters...

Exactly Squirl! It does not matter at all because all it takes is for one parent to be a US Citizen. That and registering the birth with the US Consulate. This is simply smoke and mirrors raised by some in a desperate attempt to discredit Obama. The same thing was raised by some on the other side of the fence about John McCain earlier in this election season as well.

I just do not agree with you on this. Overall I generally agree with you but not on this.
McCain birth was vetted, and the conclusion is that all though he was not born in the US continent he was born on American soil. Just like other nations have property here that is theirs (embassy's). Now if Mc Cain's parents where on vacation in another country and had him at a local hospital he could still be american through his parents filling a form, but he would have not been born on American soil.

As for Obama if people wanted to prove he was not born in Hawaii, the better way to do this was to prove his mom was not in Hawaii at the time of his birth. They went the wrong route or they know she was in Hawaii and this was just a red herring.

I think the Obama Hawaii/Kenya thing was a red herring.

From the Constitution of the United States, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

The part that confuses the issue is how one defines "natural born citizen".

From Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition:  "Natural born citizen.  Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad."

From http://www.uscis.gov,  Citizenship is one of the most coveted gifts that the U.S. government can bestow, and the most important immigration benefit that USCIS can grant.  Most people become U.S. citizens in one of two ways:
*By birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or
*By Naturalization.

I interpret "natural born citizen", as used by the framers of the Constitution, to exclude those born abroad to parents who are not US citizens.

So my layman interpretation of the above presidential and citizenship issues comes down to both McCain and Obama being eligible to become POTUS.   Furthermore, our son, born in a civilian hospital in Canada to a US Citizen (mother), would be eligible, but Governor Arnold and I would not.

I simply take the position that if being born to a US citizen abroad is good enough for all those other things; voting, medicaid, and so on, the same rule/logic should apply to the question of presidential eligibility. Maybe that's simplistic but that's how I feel about it. YOMV.   :)

I dunno MD, it says US Citizen Parents (Plural) Whereas Obama's parents we not both US Citizens.

Anyways, the wrong route was taken. If it was to be proved he was not born in Hawaii the best route was to prove his mother was not in Hawaii at the time of his birth.

I agree it was the wrong way to attack their perceived problem.


I think that may have been modified in a later amendment to read something like one parent.  ??? At this point I don't think it matters. If it did I believe the Republicans would have made hay with it a long time ago. Or the Clintons.

 If the mother is a U.S. citizen it only requires one parent as the father could be fictitious anyway. ;)

Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non U.S. citizen parent on or after November 14, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. citizen parent may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. citizen parent had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years, at least two years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen. This period of physical presence must have taken place prior to the birth of the child.

Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. Citizen parent between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. Citizen parent and one non-U.S. Citizen parent, may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. Citizen parent had, prior to the birth of the child, been physically present in the United States for a period of ten years, at least five years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen.

This is taken from the US Consulate website located in Bejiing China. I am sure this applies to any country. READ WELL! I do not think she met the criteria presented therefore he is NOT a US CITIZEN. Furthermore, is not African American, black or whatever you call it. His dad was not an African, he was Arabian. 

Regardless of the information or anything else out there, he has been elected our President. I voted for McCain but I have seen a change in demeanor in him as of his acceptance speech last night and the possible selection of Chief of Staff today. I pray that God leads this man and that he leads our nation well. May we all come together and strengthen this country and not divide it. Together we stand, divided we fall. GOD BLESS and PEACE to everyone!

alcowboy I think the point is moot seeing he was born in Hawaii.

Stinkerbell,
Again, why won't he present his document if there is a doubt? It cost more money in the courts to persue
this and if he had nothing to hide he would show it just to rest it because there are many American citizens
who are doubtful. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. He has even concealed his college records.
McCain disclosed everything when questioned.
Russia and Hamas has already started their reign of terror as soon as our weak president as gotten. The terrorists have spoken. They think he is no threat which has increased their courage to strike.
Trust me. I will remind you guys who think our country made a postitive change every time he shows his true colors. He already has my appointed Rahm Emanuel a radical in your face liberal.
Thanks NM_Shooter. You are right on with your observations.

My main question, which remains unanswered, is how the heck did he get where he is? Where did he come from?

• Community organizer
• Senator for an extremely short period
• NO military background
• NO experience with dignitaries -foreign or otherwise
• NO REAL experience in government

If his father did not have money how did Barrack get the funds to go to Harvard? His dad was a militant in South Africa, a muslim, his mother turned to Islam, and his step father was Islamic. Go figure. Rev. Wright is a racist in every form and fashion and big time against America. Barrack sat in the pew for 20+/- years and says he "didn't know what Rev. Wright was all about". How can you go to listen to a person for that long and "not know what they were preaching." PLEASE!  I don't know much about the "association" with Ayers but I really don't care. YES! He was a trainer for ACORN. No, he may not have been on payroll but he impressed the people and they asked him to train the staff. SOUND SUSPICIOUS?!?
I also still say there was a lot of money laundering from militant fascists through other means to get money in Barrack's campaign chest. How else can you explain millions upon millions of dollars to one candidate?
If he really wanted to "spreaad the wealth" why did he not hand most of the extra $$ from his campaign to many of us who are struggling instead of paying millions to have a 30 minute advertisement on all the major networks? What was his point on that anyway? HA HA I CAN OUTSPEND YOU! Shame on him and his campaign people.

I could go on and on but what damn bit of good is it going to do? Those who chose to deafen their ears to the truths have put him and and now we ALL have to deal with it. All I can say at this point is that regardless of the outcome of the election, he is the president (for what it is worth) and we as AMERICANS, black, white, hispanic or other creeds and nationalities need to come together as we have in the past and become ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE!!

Our forefathers would turn over in their graves knowing we are letting this split the nation apart! I love my fellow Americans. I love my country. And above all, I LOVE MY GOD! I will back him for what it is worth and yes I will fuss and rip and snort when I disagree. But do we have the power to really change the government? The real answer my friends is NO. All we can do is change the faces and names of the government. As long as they know how to rip off the people they will train the newbies and continue on and sweep it all under the carpet as they have always done in the past.

First and foremost Obama was not my candidate, but he will be my president. I have a very patriotic side.
And I am also a rational person. He provided a Birth Certificate, but that was not enough. People next demand was a vaulted Birth Certificate. I think he provided enough and if there was any truth to the issue it would have been outed by now. As for who paid for his education, good chance he got scholarships, better chance he got a pale grant and/ or other loans. I am sure with his families income he qualified for a lot of perks.

As far as back pocket money, I think the whole of DC has been bought and paid for by many groups and special interest.
I find it ironic to some degree how "We the people" cry out for an outsider to go clean up DC. Palin was one of the most outside people we could have with experience in running a state. SHe was no DC insider. But with that said people complained that she had no experience.
So, I ask what is it you want? and outsider to clean it up or a person with experience, therefore tainted by DC?

I truly believe the system itself is corrupt. Personally I would love to throw it out. If my hard disc get corrupt I toss that out. Seems rather simple.

Well, right now the thing is the '08 election is over and Obama is POTUS.

We have to work with what we got. Rather than rehash old garbage or try to explore new trash, let's see what develops and deal with it as it's presented. It may not be what I wanted, but it's what we got. Let's make lemonade.   ;D

Who is gonna pay?

More of the same...

http://www.slate.com/id/2203929?y=1 (http://www.slate.com/id/2203929?y=1)

Don't ya just love it....?? [frus]

Hey brother, can ya spare some popcorn?

PS....the pundits are saying Chicago is a shoe in for the 2016 Olympics now.

Who is gonna pay?

I am building a 12x20 shed/cabin by Deep Creek Md. My state is so democratic and they went out in record
numbers to vote along with the illegal aliens who were register to vote as soon as they were given drivers
licenses. Yes our terrible governer (O'Malley) raised our taxes and made our state a sanctuary for illegals
that I am thinking of completing the building with the nine acreas and getting the heck out of the state.
The question is where do I go? I am from Louisiana and with the new Gov.(Jindal) he has made a huge
positive impact on the state. Too bad my husband doesn't want to live in hot humid weather.
I really feel so strong especially now that my vote doesn't count. There is only a small portion of Maryland
that has a huge population that determines the blue state outcome every time. So sad. I need to rethink
my homestead now. Thinking of trying out a new red state.

Alabama will welcome you with open arms my friend.

There's no place lie the SW

I gotta work on my husband's yankee ways.
Thanks for the invitation alcowboy and mountaindon.

The Wild & Wonderful state was all Red.  It is just a short jump for you. 

We were all red except Varyland (North Va) and a couple of cowpiles.

Has anyone looked at the blue states.  Are they the most drastic when it comes to economy or hope to gain in the flurry of promises made.

I haven't looked at them yet John. One thing I noticed in Va was that nearly the whole state was red. The cities and urban counties were what went blue and since they had most of the population, kicked us over the edge.

I posted a link to a survey earlier that said the turnout was about the same as 2004. The difference was that Republican voters stayed home.

But even the red states that went to McCain voted bluer than they did in 2004.  If you look at this map (http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html) (click on 'Voting Shifts" at the left), it shows how each county across the country changed from the 2004 election.  With some exceptions in the South and Arizona, even the red states are bluer today than they used to be.

There are a lot of reasons I think, Pox.

There is a large Latino population and they hate Bush so they hate McCain.
The economy has terrified the soccer moms and That person, says he can fix their 401K's, mortgages and save their jobs.
Bush and his constant spying and anti terror BS has PO'ed most of us so far we don't want anything to do with The Republicans.
Black voters that never voted before (and I suspect some that aren't living) went Obama because he's gonna give them money.

Last...Give the Devil his due. He ran one of the best campaigns I've ever seen. >:(

The backlash against the Bush administration is such that the democrats could have nominated Jack the Ripper and he would have won. 

Bush 1, the 1994 contract with America, Bush 2,  .... its been a generation since the republican party even attempted to deliver on their "platform".  They have spent most of that time pandering to the religious right.

I want MUCH less government, fiscal accountability, power returned to state and local government, and renewed respect for the Constitution and individual liberties, so I'm no democrat.  But I couldn't bring myself to vote for the republican ticket. I voted for Bob Barr and mostly the libertarian slate.  Didn't make any difference.. McCain carried GA by a wide margin... which didn't mean anything either. 

The electoral map shows that if a candidate carries the large urban areas they are pretty much in control.  The 11 states with the most electoral votes comprise a controlling majority.

For those dissatisfied with the electoral college...  Good Luck!  It would require a constitutional amendment and ratification by 2/3 of the states.  Is your Senator or Congressman likely to introduce such an amendment?....  I didn't think so.

I don't think HE ran the campaign, the biased media did it for him.  Look how they attacked Palin and are still doing so. Because of the loss of election there are those in the Republican party that are trying to throw blame also. It is a sad state of affairs that there are basically two major political parties and that people vote along party lines instead of for the person themselves. I think this shows more of the racial divide in this country than what we were willing to address and it is more on the black side than it is on the white. I live in the south and I see more racisim coming from the blacks than I do the whites. The past is the past. We cannot answer for our ancestors mistakes but it seems the hatred is still there from the blacks view. I disagree that the majority of white carry that racist view anymore. Sure there are those idiots out there that are mean enough to hate even themselves.

Regardless of what has happened I am hoping that he will do the right thing and help those Americans in need out here, black, white, hispanic or whatever nationality - we are all Americans afterall. Lets just pull together as a nation once again and roll up our shirt sleeves and get to the task at hand. ON A LIGHTER NOTE - and knock some common sense into those danged politicians up there.  d*

JohnC it sounds like the battle cry from the Confederate States once again. State's rights! That was what the Civil War was really all about to begin with. The politicians (eh hem once AGAIN) pulled the slavery thing into the war. Don't get me wrong - I AM AGAINST SLAVERY OF ANY KIND. Just trying to prove a political point here.

The Republicans are doomed to wander the wilderness until they get back to their core conservative principles:  lower taxes, lower spending, and smaller government.  When they let themselves get dominated by cultural issues like same-sex marriage, abortion and prayer in the schools, they dilute their message and lose the support of moderates, independents, and centrist Democrats.

Two things must happen before they have a chance at winning another election:  kick the religious right to the curb, and vow to cut spending before cutting taxes.  The Bush Republicans were like spoiled children who demanded dessert before they ate their vegetables; likewise, you cannot cut taxes before cutting spending.  The last 8 years are proof of that.

I would liken to the last 4 years, no? Pox has a valid point though. I hope not 40 years of roaming though.  ;D

Quote from: alcowboy on November 07, 2008, 11:01:55 AM
I would liken to the last 4 years, no? Pox has a valid point though. I hope not 40 years of roaming though.  ;D

Hmmmmm..The first president I remember was Eisenhower (I Like Ike....I didn't though ???)

Including him, Regan is the only President (and this should be qualified) that I didn't think should be hung.

I have never been given a choice of a president, that had a chance of winning, that was worth a damn. Why should it change >:(

Hopefully the best thing that can come out of this is Republicans will adhere to their conservative values again.  They seemed to keep ringing the gay marriage and abortion bell and ignored everything else.  They ran up the largest increase in government size along with being a better friend to big business instead of small business.  They abanoded all values by spying on americans, especially U.S. troops, and torturing prisoners.  The foreign policy has been to make the U.S. the police of world.  They pushed pay-go orginally and deficeit spent us into being owned by the Chinese and Saudi's.  They were the party of enviromental protection (Teddy, Bush I) and totally abandoned that for big business.

There are many parts of both parties platforms that I like.  Hopefully while wandering the political wilderness, the repbulicans will find themselves again.

John C. the electoral college will never change, because it gives so much power to smaller states.  Look at how hard they campaigned in Nevada and New Mexico.  Both have only 5 electoral votes, but if the election were done by popular vote, no one would pay any attention to any rural parts of the countries.  Over 80% of the population of the U.S. lives in urban or urban sprawl areas.  If you live in Virginia 3,608,941 votes were cast.  That is 277,610 votes per electoral vote.  Meanwhile if you live in Alaska  216,688 votes were cast.  That gives you 72,229 votes per electoral vote. The electoral college gives a lot of power to rural states and gives a vote of the people in those states the value of 4 people from other states.  This hurts California, Texas, and NY most.

Quote from: Squirl on November 07, 2008, 12:13:44 PM
...electoral college...   ...This hurts California, Texas, and NY most.

But if the choice made was by popular vote those who choose to live in less populated areas would lose their voice.   Nothing's perfect.  There are arguments pro and con the electoral college system.


Under a parliamentary system there's no picking the individual; you get the leader of the party that wins the most seats.

QuoteJohn C. the electoral college will never change, because it gives so much power to smaller states.  Look at how hard they campaigned in Nevada and New Mexico.  Both have only 5 electoral votes, but if the election were done by popular vote, no one would pay any attention to any rural parts of the countries.  Over 80% of the population of the U.S. lives in urban or urban sprawl areas.  If you live in Virginia 3,608,941 votes were cast.  That is 277,610 votes per electoral vote.  Meanwhile if you live in Alaska  216,688 votes were cast.  That gives you 72,229 votes per electoral vote. The electoral college gives a lot of power to rural states and gives a vote of the people in those states the value of 4 people from other states.  This hurts California, Texas, and NY most.

Please do the rest of the math for me! :) After 28 votes for one candidate in Ca. the votes go instantly to 55, With that the math would break down to how many votes it took to get 28 and then divide that number into 55 Electoral votes!?!?! Ca. being an all or nothing state means the majority of votes rules the entire number of votes for the state, Right?
I like the thought of one person = one vote but I know that's not going to happen, But I think the more people understand how the "Super States" are controlling so much and they are still growing the more I think something will get done to at least reduce the size of "Group" Electoral votes to manageable sizes like maybe 12 to 15 per group.
If the large states were broke up into groups or zones of Congressional Districts the people who live in more rural areas of high populous states wouldn't have their votes drowned out by the more populated districts in the same state. I really believe this is what the founders had in mind but they had no way of knowing that a state could get to 53 Congressional Districts. JMHO ;)