I have three Manco Talon ATV's. Normally I only have one or two to ride because one or two are in for warranty repain. (Extended warranty) There is only one warranty repair place in Virginia and he takes one to three months to repair (and I use the term very loosely) them.
To give the short story, they will start idling badly. That will get worse over a two or three week period and then they will begin starting badly.
This is where it gets screwy. The engine will act like it;s seized, but only after sitting a week or so, but a second or third try to start it and it will start like a champ.
Each one has done the exact same thing. Thankfully I got the extended warranty because the warranty repair station puts a 400.00 plus carburetor on it and sends it back.
I've been keeping the old carbs to rebuild after warranty expires.
Now here's where it starts getting spooky.
The one I took in today is doing the same thing. A few weeks ago, when it was seized, I decided to check the oil. I had never don that when the engine was locked up because it usually didn't stay locked long enough.
Anyway, I unscrewed the dipstick and it shot oil all the way to the ceiling!
I screwed it back on and as soon as the warranty place could take it, took it in.
I told him the story (since they have all been in he knew most of the history) he unscrewed the dipstick and it shot a quart of oil (Couldn't be much left in it) and GAS!
How does the crankcase get pressurized and how does gas get in it?
On all of them I had noticed a little gas under them after sitting a few days. I assumed the carb ahad float problems.
Peter I had a neighbor that had a John Deere riding mower. It was one of the 200 series I think. It had a Kawaski motor ( The downfall of John Deere riding mowers IMO). Anyway he was told that when he finished mowing for the day to shut off the gas. It somehow bleed gas into the oil. The only remedy was to change the oil. I have a Onan engine in mine and never had any trouble in that respect.
The answer would be your carburetor.
Pressurized because your gas tank must have been higher than the carb or if lower, then a gas cap with no vent and sitting in the sun.
The needle valve had to be sticking and allowing the gas to flow continuously in a small trickle into the engine.
Seized or cylinder full of gas? The gas will flow into the cylinder from the defective carb or needle and fill the cylinder completely creating a hydraulic lock when you go to start it. The piston can't come up because it cannot compress the liquid gasoline. The crankcase full of gas is caused by slow flow of gas past the rings after the oil is washed off.
This will also cause problems with the cylinder wall and piston allowing possible scoring due to lack of lubrication. It can cause hard starting if not hydraulic locked due to washing all oil from the rings thereby allowing nearly all compression to escape into the crankcase. Oil put into the spark plug hole can restore compression if there is no scoring and fuel leakage has stopped.
Oi,l gas and carbon can be removed from a flooded spark plug by sitting it on a piece of steel or rock, starting a small oxy-acetylene flame preferably with a torch head then carefully playing the fire on the end of the plug. As soon as the carbon, oil and or wet gas starts to burn add oxygen with the trigger handle of the torch. The carbon will completely burn off with the added oxygen and the plug will be hot and ready to start that flooded small engine -- or whatever you choose to do it on. Careful -- bad technique could destroy the plug. Practice on an old one. Not that hard once you get used to it.
Thanks John and Glenn.
Now I'm wondering if I have scoring on the other two. If so, I want to have it fixed while they are still under warranty.
Scoring doesn't have to happen but could. Look for loss of compression and excessive blowby or pull the head and check - not good for warranty though if you do it. Many have the crankcase ported to the carb with a hose to burn the gasses now. you may be able to see it there when running it.
Scratchyness when pulling the rope could also indicate the piston dragging on a scrape. Again - I have seen the gas overrun and fill the engine wth no problem also. Just a possibility.
Most of the Chinese built atvs use old style Honda parts so after warranty is out you can still get parts you just need to do some research.
Glen is right on the carb. flooding the cylinder but I doubt you have hurt it. The fact that they keep doing it after the carb. was replaced makes me think you have trash or water in the tanks or the vent tubes are plugged or kinked.
I would suggest putting an in line filter on and turning the gas petcock off after use.
Depending on what cc they are I may have access to some parts as I do warranty repairs and assembly for an importer of another brand here in central Arkansas.
Cordwood, you wouldn't happen to have a manual for an Everlast 6500 w/ATS would you? Chinese one cyl diesel generator? A friend gave me one but it doesn't run - I haven't dug deep into it yet.
Quote from: cordwood on November 01, 2008, 11:13:07 PM
Most of the Chinese built atvs use old style Honda parts so after warranty is out you can still get parts you just need to do some research.
Glen is right on the carb. flooding the cylinder but I doubt you have hurt it. The fact that they keep doing it after the carb. was replaced makes me think you have trash or water in the tanks or the vent tubes are plugged or kinked.
I would suggest putting an in line filter on and turning the gas petcock off after use.
Depending on what cc they are I may have access to some parts as I do warranty repairs and assembly for an importer of another brand here in central Arkansas.
Sure am glad to see you on the forum Cordwood. These are 250cc engines. Let me correct something though. They have not done it AFTER the carb replacement...so far. I've had some other problems after the replacements, but they were in the automatic clutch.
These are semi complicated little units and hard to get to anything. They do have inline filters and I replaced the one on the one I got back today. That seemed to clear up some of the hard starting I had after the carb was replaced.
They have what they call a fuel pump. It is nothing but a vacuum chamber with a line to the tank and a line to carburetor and a vacum line going to the manifold.
That could be part of the problem also because I can't find any gas flow if it's not being cranked or running.
The things also have electric chokes.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 01, 2008, 11:43:53 PM
Cordwood, you wouldn't happen to have a manual for an Everlast 6500 w/ATS would you? Chinese one cyl diesel generator? A friend gave me one but it doesn't run - I haven't dug deep into it yet.
Sorry Glen :( No manual. Most Chinese manuals are more like bad coloring books anyway. I do have some manuals for Agra Cat (Northerns Farm Trac) tractors that come from China and may have some common assemblies. Could have a Yangdong or a Jiangsu Jianghuai (that one comes with egg roll) But most are very similar and pretty basic. 8)
Quote from: peternap on November 02, 2008, 03:00:44 AM
Quote from: cordwood on November 01, 2008, 11:13:07 PM
Most of the Chinese built atvs use old style Honda parts so after warranty is out you can still get parts you just need to do some research.
Glen is right on the carb. flooding the cylinder but I doubt you have hurt it. The fact that they keep doing it after the carb. was replaced makes me think you have trash or water in the tanks or the vent tubes are plugged or kinked.
I would suggest putting an in line filter on and turning the gas petcock off after use.
Depending on what cc they are I may have access to some parts as I do warranty repairs and assembly for an importer of another brand here in central Arkansas.
Sure am glad to see you on the forum Cordwood. These are 250cc engines. Let me correct something though. They have not done it AFTER the carb replacement...so far. I've had some other problems after the replacements, but they were in the automatic clutch.
These are semi complicated little units and hard to get to anything. They do have inline filters and I replaced the one on the one I got back today. That seemed to clear up some of the hard starting I had after the carb was replaced.
They have what they call a fuel pump. It is nothing but a vacuum chamber with a line to the tank and a line to carburetor and a vacum line going to the manifold.
That could be part of the problem also because I can't find any gas flow if it's not being cranked or running.
The things also have electric chokes.
The vacum pulse fuel pump shouldn't flow without a vacum pulse signal. If those pumps are in question you can give the hose from the manifold a few quick "sucks" and it should dribble fuel (they don't usually squirt) and if one goes bad you can replace it with one for a riding mower, Briggs, Kohler, Kawi, etc. take a similar pump.
One more bad thing about the Chinese models is the factories change production and parts without warning and two identical models in the same shipment could have different parts and features.
Since I may not see a post if you shoot me a PM I will help you anyway I can.
One more thing, I would recommend replacing ALL the rubber hoses soon as Chinese rubber is very poor quality. ::)
Thanks, Cordwood. I'm pretty good with engine theory and repair and electronics so If I just tear into it I may find something -- just need to get started.