I've heard multiple musings here and other places about FEMA's roles in "disasters". Well, what do you think of this? For years the I-40 crosstown bridge in Oklahoma City has been in really bad shape, and in the past few years huge chunks of concrete keep falling out of the bridge and the city will come and patch the hole... it's well known around here that it is in serious need of being rebuilt. In fact, one night last week, they had to close a lane again because another big hole had appeared. Anyway, tonight we went to a gospel singing and I was talking to an old old friend there, and he said that a guy he knows who works for FEMA sent him an email telling him to warn family and friends not to drive on the crosstown because it will collapse before the new bridge is finished, that FEMA "knows" it is going to collapse already and that they know approximately when it will take place. The new road is supposed to be built through an older mostly minority community, and I remember way back when they first started discussing rebuilding the road that there was a big uproar because the gov was going to force people out of their homes to build the new bridge. DH and I were talking about it on the way home and we figured that if there was a "state of emergency" because of the bridge collapse, then it would give them all the more excuse to knock out whole neighborhoods of old rundown houses just because they can. Needless to say, we took an alternate route home tonight. Why is a federal agency supposedly in the know about this seemingly local issue, AND if they "know" the bridge is going to collapse before the new one is ready, why aren't they shutting it down?
I am evacuated for fire now, on Blackberry but take it seriously until you are sure it is not true - until all times and events have lapsed.
Don't chance it.
Fema has been in on some very fishy stuff. Gov recently mentioned that another disaster would benefit them. Believe them.
That is some scary shit
Why cannot we get this sort of thing spread out all across america on the evening news....
Oh yeah all the news in america is owned by heir Murdoch :o
The whole thing sounds like a rumor to me. However given the risks to the people if it were correct, have you considered sending an anonymous note to the newspaper or local tv/radio stations? If they know it's going to fall and are not telling people it seems the liability would be huge. If they denied any knowledge only to see the thing fall apart in 2 months it would be just as bad for them. It might be better to push the issue now than be "right" later.
We have a few bridges here in Seattle that have issues too. Cracks and pieces of concrete fall at one point it was sinking too (The Alaska Way Viaduct, thats the name) . Despite that the city every few years does mock trials of emergencies to make sure we can handle a disaster. It could be argued that they know it can/will fall but who knows maybe it will be bombed or an earthquake may take it out. I suspect FEMA has many areas they have a plan if a disaster happens.
I think stinkerbelle has the right idea on this. FEMA likely has plans for thousands if not tens of thousands of possible catastrophes. If they don't then they are not doing their job. I could see the possibility of them performing a risk assessment then a mitigation plan and response plan if it were to occur. If someone were to see that report and not have the proper context around it they might get the idea it was a planned event.
The government is made up of people. Some of the people may have some bad ideas, and some of them maybe have bad priorities, but overall I tend to believe in the good of people. While I certainly understand people making bad choices, I just dont think malignant end "evil" intentions are the norm. You can call me naive and tell me I'm wrong. But I can't see a huge group of people, (and FEMA is a huge group of people) doing something like this with bad intentions towards the public.
I guess thats why I'm no good at conspiracy theories. I can see a small group of people doing something to benefit themselves at the cost of others, I cannot see dozens or even hundreds of people going along with it.
DOT would be the agency responsible for maintenance or closing the bridge. I agree that some media attention might be the way to go.
Quote from: muldoon on July 27, 2008, 04:29:59 PM
I think stinkerbelle has the right idea on this. FEMA likely has plans for thousands if not tens of thousands of possible catastrophes. If they don't then they are not doing their job. I could see the possibility of them performing a risk assessment then a mitigation plan and response plan if it were to occur. If someone were to see that report and not have the proper context around it they might get the idea it was a planned event.
The government is made up of people. Some of the people may have some bad ideas, and some of them maybe have bad priorities, but overall I tend to believe in the good of people. While I certainly understand people making bad choices, I just dont think malignant end "evil" intentions are the norm. You can call me naive and tell me I'm wrong. But I can't see a huge group of people, (and FEMA is a huge group of people) doing something like this with bad intentions towards the public.
I guess thats why I'm no good at conspiracy theories. I can see a small group of people doing something to benefit themselves at the cost of others, I cannot see dozens or even hundreds of people going along with it.
I have to agree with muldoon. In all the years I worked fot the state and the Federal Government, I never saw any sign of a conspiracy. Only ONCE did I see anyone do anything blatantly illegal. I'm talking about serious offenses.
I have seen plans of action that were intended to be done quietly and that were very poor judgment (my opinion is we are seeing one in the Stock Market now)
But these are different from conspiracies.
FEMA can't step in (at least according to law) They may not act until and unless:
1 The Governor of the affected state declares a disaster.
2 The Governor declares that the disaster is beyond the capabilities of the state to deal with it.
3 The Governor applies to the President for Federal disaster aid.
4 The President accepts the application and makes a federal disaster declaration.
Then, FEMA goes to the state to assist the state emergency management agency.
So, what they can do is all after the fact. State's rights are honored.
The only exception I know of would be in the event of a nationwide disaster, then the President (or the survivor in the line of succession) can make a declaration without waiting for governors. That's when the authority of FEMA gets interesting. They have a master plan that "coordinates" all federal agencies, including the armed forces.
I worked for them for a while.
Maybe there is an agency that could precipitate action on a failing bridge before the fact, like the state's DOT or maybe the Transportation Safety Board if brought in by a whistle blower. d*
Glenn, are you evacuated because of the Yosemite fire?
We just lost a couple of local boys who went down to fight those Northern California fires. One was only 18.
I was going to ask the same thing...Where in relation to the fires are you At Glenn?
Glenn, hoping you are all out of harm's way there. Updates?
I am about 1/2 mile from the edge of the fire East slope of Mt Bullion. The fire has been being held at Harry51's place. I decided I wasn't a ward of the state - said I'm taking care of my place - returned to the cabin at 4 AM and loaded my guns - One strapped on and carry the other in unknown situations.
Only one chief with a bad attitude but he was happy to meet me and thought I was doing a great job after he saw my .380. I didn't say anything -- a picture is worth a thousand words and I wasn't smiling or humoring his authoritarian attitude when I told him I was making fire trail and checking to make sure my neighbors place was OK.
He knew I was dead serious and was not to be screwed with. He could see I had no fear of him in the slightest so he dropped the attitude and got friendly - to his own benefit. I have seen it so many times I suspected the attitude would be the case but everyone was nice to me as I had my attitude adjusters. A friend called and confirmed my suspicions - they were A-holes to him and drove him from his place about 1/2 mile away - line of sight from the pool.
Good for you Glenn.
Glad your OK!
Glad to see you are ok!
I like that name, attitude adjuster. i think you need to trade mark it.
How does one make a successful fire trail glenn
Generally 12 feet or more wide - 30 is great - with no grass or fuel . 50 feet with no tree top closeness is even better. I blade it out with the John Deere.
get the dozer drop the hammer and go huh?
did you have to make the trail on your land or did you get to defile government property?
This came out in the news today and seems somewhat relevant here.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=5467344
"At least $140 billion is needed to make major repairs or upgrades to one of every four U.S. bridges, transportation officials from states across the country said in a report released Monday."...
"The report cited Federal Highway Administration statistics that 152,000 out of the nation's 600,000 bridges are either structurally deficient or functionally obsolete."
Someone thinking about a new new deal here?
Quote from: benevolance on July 29, 2008, 02:38:38 AM
get the dozer drop the hammer and go huh?
did you have to make the trail on your land or did you get to defile government property?
All my property except about 200 feet on Schmidt's to help prevent fire from spreading from my place to theirs if it happens.
So how close is the fire to where you laid the trench? is part of your land on fire?
The fire has not touched my place - roughly a quarter to 1/2 mile to the nearest fire lines.
Hmmm I don't know....Fires, earthquakes and liberals made me move from the state. heh
See now why does the word liberal have to be bad...
By definition it is something good... free thinking open minded non biased
Dubbya and cronies have tried to make it seem something like the taliban
very puzzling
What is bad about Liberals??
A dictionary definition does make it seem that to not be a Liberal is to be against everything. But when you look at the real world we live in.....
Liberals want to tax me excessively and give the money to others who haven't worked as hard to earn their own money.
Liberals believe the only correct way is their way.
Liberals feel a need to constantly bash the United States.
Liberals want to dump astronomical amounts of money into various social welfare programs that are ineffective and particularly susceptible to fraud, abuse and corruption.
Liberal Democrats have the goal to exchange American law for global law already adapted by (mostly) the EU.
Liberals want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens in the name of "safety".
Liberals appoint aggressive activist judges who think the Constitution is just some reference document.
Liberals show more concern for criminals' rights than victims' rights.
Liberals promote environmental extremism.
Liberals cannot seem to wrap their heads around the idea that the entire Social Security program, as well as Medicare, is headed for bankruptcy and places an unfair burden on the younger, working generation.
Liberals seem to subscribe to the idea that more taxes - especially more taxes for the wealthy - is economically beneficial to the country. In other words, liberals believe in taxing heavily people for being economically productive.
Liberals are intent on being politically correct - never saying anything against minorities - while saying things that are very offensive to Christians and conservatives.
...How's that for a start?
didn't know you and dubbya were busom buddies
Don,
you are not being politically correct...(thank you)
apaknad,
:D
You're welcome!! ;D
Quote from: MountainDon on July 30, 2008, 06:42:43 PM
What is bad about Liberals??
A dictionary definition does make it seem that to not be a Liberal is to be against everything. But ...
...How's that for a start?
(http://conneelystudio.com/pics/un_huh.gif) (http://conneelystudio.com/pics/thumbs_up.gif)
:) Well, as my grandma has always said, some people are so open-minded they're in grave danger of their brains falling out.
Quote from: benevolance on July 30, 2008, 05:18:21 PM
See now why does the word liberal have to be bad...
By definition it is something good... free thinking open minded non biased
Dubbya and cronies have tried to make it seem something like the taliban
very puzzling
For instance, the member of Congress who recently suggested that we barcode every piece of fruit or veggie that enters our food chain as a "solution" for recent salmonella outbreaks.
Yes I see now that the neo cons are much better than the liberals... They passed the patriot act to protect us and they are giving the fed more authority. Torture laws have been repealed, they can wiretap us for no reason...They want to take our gold from us...the dollar is worthless...we are living penniless in a land without our "Guaranteed rights and freedoms"
Yes the conservative way is absolutely perfect
Let me go get a lobotomy and I will be ready to join up
benevolance, it seems you think that just because some do not like liberals its an automatic we are neo cons.
Well I am not. I can't stand either party at this point in the game. I am very disenchanted.
You may want to consider that if California was full of ne cons instead of Liberals my complaint would have been
that I left California cause of earthquakes, fires and neo cons.
Well said, Stink...
well Iam not for Obama at all even though he was shoved down our throats as democrats...
I want a third party.. something full scale on equal footing with the elephants and the horses..
that Way Ron Paul could run and not be ignored by mainstream media...Have his debates cancelled have his delegates taken away from him..
He was forced to run as a Republican because as a independant 20 years ago he got no funding coverage or exposure...And the republicans buried him so their golden boy would get the nomination.
I hope that Paul costs McCain Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah
Somehow Joe Liberman made the Independent Party work for him.
No not really
Leiberman is still small potatoes...He did not try to run in 50 states successfully. With equal footing with the incumbents.
It is possible for a Senator or govenor to run as an independent and win I agree look at the great job Jessie the body did in Minnesota.. But I was listening to him on Larry King a while back and he said he could never run for president because there was no infrastructure for someone to run in all 50 states in all regions if you were not a republican or democrat.
Guys like Ross Perot personally had plenty of money but not enough to fund successfully a whole political party.
The best we can hope for is that the green and liberation parties cause a little havoc with McCain out west and that he loses Some of the states the Republicans are counting on...Even one loss out west would be critical for McCain
Maybe then people would start paying attention to voters.
You guys all need to get over the idea that the vote controls the presidency and who is good for this country.
The vote is controlled, tampered with, a fraud - if it goes wrong the supreme court or Diebold can change it. It is fully controlled and choices limited by the shadow government who control the real figurehead puppet fascist government you see and have a limited chance of voting for. If it goes your way, you think democracy is alive. If it goes with the other offered "choice", you think - well -it was what the majority wanted but at least I had my say -- fair and square....NOT.
You've been duped...it's a set up. Big business and the world bankers etc. would not let you make a choice of someone who would be good for the country but shut a lot of their no-bid contracts and profit taking at the expense of the working class of the US. Wars will not be stopped - codes forcing purchase of corporate products and materials, excessive taxes that keep the GOB system functioning will not stop until total meltdown of the system or another Boston Tea Party against the cancer that has grown in place of the "REPUBLIC" the founding fathers created.
Wake up - pull your head out of the sand and take a real look at the REAL world.
Just my view -- I will try seriously to no longer look at anything but reality.
I'm not anti-American. I'm a true American descendant of Oregon homesteaders and am totally pissed off at what these bastards we call our leaders are doing to destroy this country for their own unimaginable massive profit taking at the expense of the disillusioned American public. I'm a true patriot who cares about the country. True patriotism is not in accepting the criminals destroying the country for our children, but in voicing disagreement with the system as it stands and hopefully getting a movement of enough pissed off people to re-instate the controls the founding fathers put on the federal government and bankers.
I'm not liberal. I'm not conservative. I want good for the people and take each problem on it's own merits. I am anti-authoritarian. I am anti-political. I am just under anarchist. We need just enough good government for the good of the people to care for things such as this fire, highways etc. Not to control the ripoff of the public in the favor of big business and the world bankers. How about we get back to a government for the people, by the people. Sorry - I talk a lot but don't know how to effect that, even if this one fails. Too many self serving people in this system. Maybe someday God will really take over and do something about it. Men will never make a good government as they have proven for thousands of years.
In my belief, it is too broke to fix until it totally melts down, but educating others as much as possible can have the disenchanted ready to take over and re-build after the fall. I'm not encouraging revolution. I'm encouraging disaster preparedness and a recovery like FEMA could never even dream about creating.
Let's open our eyes and quit deceiving ourselves just so we will feel good. There is little to feel good about in the choices of more of the same allowed by the shadow government. As they are found out their power diminishes. Do your part. Wake others up.
hi glen,
first of all, i am glad that everyone in that area seems to be ok and the worst maybe has passed. good job by the fire fighters.
secondly. on your last post... i couldn't have said it better myself. i agree with you 100%.
i remember hearing many years ago that the boston tea party was a revolt against a 17% tax. today we are in the area of 50%. i wonder what the founding fathers would think?
it is too late to fix the system because the bastards are too firmly entrenched so there will have to be a meltdown, but only after all are wealth is cherry picked away from us. all our institutions are failing and these latest problems(ie. housing, banking, enron, oil/gas, auto co.'s, immigration, violence, drugs, ad nauseum) are the early indications. like i said before, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
you had better learn how to take care of ourselves and live independently like our country did at the turn of the previous century or you will be left twisting in the wind and vulnerable to many things. my mother will be 93 in sept. and i enjoy talking to her about the depression and how my family survived and wwII and other things. she was a farm girl in rural south central michigan. she said that they always had food. potatos, beans, eggs and meat from chickens and pigs. to this day she still hates beans.
it breaks my heart to see what is being done to dismantle this country piece by piece but i thank God that i have the knowledge and skills to at least prepare as best i can for most disasters. i may p_ss some people off here but i do believe that we are living in the time just before Christ's return and like a woman having a baby the earth is having birth pangs. eventually things will be better but up to that point hang on to your horses because it is going to be a wild ride.
again, my thanks to you glen for stating so well things that i can't always express myself in such a realistic and truthful way.
luv you all, dan
Thanks, Dan. Glad I'm not the only one.
If we didn't care for our fellow countrymen we wouldn't try to make them see what is going on.
I don't mind being considered crazy if one more person gets a clue.
...and yes, Love to all who care to hang in here and put up with having your views shattered by looking at reality, and to the ones who are still too scared to look, may you find the courage.
This fire has made me realize there are still a lot of good people out there worth caring about.
Look out for the good ones.
look out for he good ones
load the guns for the rest I guess
As I tell my story I hear of many more abuses of power committed by the the local police public servants. There are good ones there too - too bad the bad ones have to give the Sheriff's department a bad reputation.
Right comes somewhere between doing their duty absent power trips and being coercive enough to get the ones who should not stay home out of there -- sometimes maybe a bit of a hard call.
I find I totally eliminated any excessive coercion with my methods.
A friend of mine has helped at several disaster sites for FEMA - he's an RN - he was at the earthquake in Southern Calif several years ago - said that was the biggest fiasco he'd ever seen - totally unorganized, they sat around doing nothing most of the time, big waste of money; worked in Florida after one of the big hurricanes - another fiasco; worked in New Orleans after Rita - that was the only place he actually did anything - was put on 12 hr nights in ER for 14 days straight... so at least that was worthwhile.
Glenn, I agree with what you said... but the problem arises in that small government is only for a good people... I'm not so sure that we the people are still so good as a whole. I wish in so many ways that we could go back to a government close to what it was when we'd first become a nation, but then I also wonder what effects there would be because of so many people who have made the government god. Would those people riot and loot and kill because there were no food stamps, no section 8 housing, no free medical care? I just wonder. Would the majority of Americans know what to do with themselves if the government quit propping up a failing system of industrial agriculture and food in the grocery stores skyrocketed? ???
Anyway, as to the original topic of this thread, way way back, I'm staying off the crosstown bridge for now. There are other ways around the city, though none so direct and simple. I don't necessarily believe it is a conspiracy; it was just something to think about. The friend who told me about the memo from FEMA was very concerned that we don't drive on that stretch of highway.... and maybe like some of you said, it isn't that it is a planned event for collapse so much as a scenario that might happen. Looking at the bridge from the underside, you'd think it was imminent. It is really scary.
There are so many areas of government that could be eliminated at the federal level. The Dept. of education is a prime example. We don't need to have troops in every country either. As for food the government has been paying farmers not to grow crops for decades. I belive if the government was out of agriculture prices would actualy go down. This includes getting them out of the ethanol business too. Welfare, regulations and price controls killed family farming. So we don't need a dept. of agriculture either. Get the government out of the land business and the price of land would go down as well. So we don't need the BLM either. It goes on and on. Almost all of these serve some special intrest or other. I'd stay off the bridge too.
Right Scott. Re food... let the market place operate freely.
Less government is better government. :)
well scott,
you forgot one of the biggest problems of all, the IRS. we don't need them-a straight 10%(including big business) for everyone with no bureaucracy. HT your obsevations are acute and that is why i prefer small town, country living. it is too late to change the system now so take care of yourself and family, friends and neighbors. i have a friends where the wife absolutly refuses to have a weapon in the house. i got tired of warning them that they were vulnerable. they live in ann arbor, mi.(it's like a little piece of california in the midwest, very liberal). they just don't get it. no emergency supplies at all. i worry about them but what are you gonna do?
I'm in agreement with the last that has been said by all.
Homey, I agree that there are not enough good people for a good government. In hiring people to work I used to find that about 5% were very good, a small percent average and the rest were poor quality.
I think Countryplans members are a collection of the top 5% and are put into this class simply by their similar goals, abilities and drive to learn and do what it takes to come out on top. Not saying we have equal skills but we are all a group who can learn, has the desire to learn and do what it takes to survive.
Survival of the fittest starts here.
It concerns me that Michael Chertoff, - over DHS/FEMA is a duals American/Israel citizen as are tons of other major US government people. It is impossible for them to do what is best for the US If they hold Israeli citizenship. How did we get here. We cannot trust our leaders not to have ulterior motives so the bridge failure you are being warned about could be allowed, blamed on Iranian terrorists and we would use it as an excuse to attack Iran. Believe me -- this is the way these guys thing although I cannot prove this as more than a possibility. They are currently looking for a good disaster to forward their causes. http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html
Remember Chertoff's gut feeling about a major disaster verified by Congoliza. I think the Alkaseltzer was administer to them when the Bush/Cheney theft of Nukes from Minot, SD was thwarted by USAF personnel who gave their lives to stop it.
Yes - I know - some say that it was coincidence -- like the anthrax doc who just committed suicide. Can you spell assassination. I believe they were planning to use one of the nukes against a major Western US city. Note that only 5 of the nukes have been recovered. One is still missing. These guys have an itchy trigger finger and would love to get Iran. They feel a major event has to happen again to wake the people up so they will give approval to pull that trigger. It has to happen even if they have to create it. 9/11 worked so well for them, and Israeli agents were across the river dancing in the street and filming the events. hmm
I have to admit it makes me not trust them. [crz]
So yes-- stay off of the bridge.
Dan - you were military weren't you? -- and you are still able to see. That is good.
yes i was in the usmc/nam '66-'68. got hip to the fact that there was no reason to be there but it took awhile. i enlisted and volunteered for nam. my dad thought i was crazy. he was in wwII. i felt obligated to serve my country. i fell into the "patriot game". I HAVE NOT TRUSTED THE GOV'T SINCE. this is in no way a slight to our service people. the idea is correct. the gov't takes advantage of it.
Exactly the way I see it- thanks for your insight.
BTW glen,
as i am listening to the 6 pm local news they just said your fire was 80% contained. hope that is true for you and the others out there. wish i could come to your shindig.
Over 4000 firefighters - 65 dozers - yup they started getting a good handle on it. Lots of the fire guys looked pretty tired.
We are doing pretty good - I wish all of our friends could show up here.
bad thing about patriotism is that the government realizes that patriotism can be used against the american citizens. They use it against us like mind control...
And the government has to qualms about sacrificing the lives or young americans for a cause....There need not be a legit reason, a threat to our security or freedom....If there is something that they want..they will use us and throw us away to get it... It just is that simple.
It sickens me that thousands of americans have died for nothing after 9-11 in the middle east fighting an enemy that does not exist for a war that is not a war
And the media allows this to happen without outrage.
Just sickening, There is never a just reason or excuse to throw the life of an american soldier away....when we enter invade or occupy all these countries all over the world for political gain...we needlessly put our soldiers at risk.
There is no greater crime a commander in chief can commit in my opinion...It is an awesome responsibility being responsible for the lives of our servicemen and women...To not be humbled by this responsibility is absolutely sickening
Some nights I turn off the lights lie down look at the ceiling and start thinking how great it will be when the real revolution happens
As Osama Obama recently toured the troops in the middle east he totally ignored them and wouldn't shake hands or do anything but his news ops. Totally ignored and shunned the outstretched hands of the soldiers wanting to shake hands with him. Probably because they are not Muslim.
Peter, the US MSM is the governments brainwashing tool for the US sheeple. The ones who easily believe all they hear locally. Ones who research foreign news that is not under control of or obligation to the US gov. will get a different story.
http://educate-yourself.org/mc/americanstargetbrainwashingcampaign10sep03.shtml
My husband says, "Preach on!" and "I concur."
I have a hard time seeing a "big group" conspiracy too, but that doesn't mean the conspiracy isn't there. Two views here. For one, there are people really in power (and I mean really far up there) that act as puppet-masters. They control the media, the money, who gets promoted, etc, etc. Only the people at THE very top need to know anything about a conspiracy...the rest works very well with people following "rules", being controlled without even noticing, and even people trying to do good. I totally believe that cliche phrase that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Well, okay, somewhat believe it. Look how the desire to help the poor has led to mass enslavement (ie, taxation). It isn't good for the have's or the have-nots. So long charity. But, people are misled into thinking that forced, legalized plunder is better for all and good people wanting to do good for others really just make a mess of the whole thing.
My other thought on the conspiracy theory track stems from religion. I believe the Devil is real and that he watches and plans much like our Heavenly Father does. I don't think people have to have a clue what the big picture is for there to be a conspiracy...all he needs are a few people to be a small piece of his plan to make it start to fall together for him. And that includes people that are ignorant and apathetic.
I too feel it is too late. The time of warning has passed and the wheels are already in motion. We just had a great "chat" this afternoon with someone new about homeschooling. She was appauled that we would do it (Seriously, she got a disgusted look just at the term!). We want our children to have a REAL education, and that doesn't mean c/o Dewey and Marx. Anyone interested in homeschooling and wanting to have real leaders come melt-down and recovery time, I'd suggest checking out the book "A Thomas Jefferson Education" by Oliver Van Demille (He writes to be persuasive to the general public, but he knows what is going on) and studies at George Wythe College: www.gwc.edu It is what finally tipped us over the homeschooling edge and we've had NOTHING but positive reinforcement since.
BTW, I doubt Utah will vote Ron Paul (too caught up in mainstream republican nonsense and materialism), but I wish they would! We will be doing so. Have to have a clear conscience when I get to the pearly gates. :o
Thanks so much for the support, Catherine. Ron Paul - while better than the rest has left me with doubts also - maybe he had to agree with the mainstream enough to not get steamrollered, but I see he will knuckle under too. There is no one we can trust but if there is a write in available and you think the vote will do anything -- (it is rigged - it really won't) write in Ron anyway.
I care too much for the sheeple who will open their eyes, to ever stop telling them what is happening and will continue trying to get them to open their eyes and look around until it is impossible for me to do it any longer. That will be when I have returned to dust, but I hope that, even after that, others continue reading here and are influenced by the drivel I have written.
Studies have shown that it would have taken Cheney, the PNAC and the rest likely no more than 200 total people to pull off 9/11. The rest were as you say, following orders. How could they keep that many people quiet that long?
Example: The USS Liberty was bombed by Israel with the knowledge and assistance of our government to make it look like Egypt did it. (False Flag) The plot failed as the Liberty didn't sink. The survivors were mad as hell and know our own government was in on it, to a man, but they did not tell.
Tons of people and all of the survivors knew but were under threat of court martial or death if they told. Just declassified 40 years later. My father-in-law went to the grave with military secrets he was not allowed to tell as have thousands of fine American servicemen who have supported the government with their lives and unending loyalty no matter what.
That is how this plot was pulled off. It is rapidly unraveling though, if the sheeple will just look at the facts even using the laws of physics as the facts that say our government has been taken over by a group of criminals who do not care that 3000 citizens, firemen and emergency workers lives have been lost and that 100's of thousands of innocent lives have been lost due to the wars we are creating for profit of the elite since.
This is chump change to the elite, and we are simply animals, like Tyson Chickens to them. Believe me - it is easy for them to feel this way. I can be this cold myself.
I had to when thrown off of my property and returning to protect it I decided that no authority figures would stop my return and efforts to assist the firefighters My goal was to make a safe place for them on my property where they could make a last stand. If you check the topography of my property you will find that it is the easiest place - (least fuel and width), from which to make a final stand before the fire hits the summit at Whitlock and 49 and is into a major supply of new fuel. I did not ever threaten any authorities but one look at me told them any attempt to remove me against my will and stop my work would possibly result in the death of someone and I didn't care if it was me.
They had to wonder if they could do it without it being one of them - maybe they cared about themselves. They had drawn guns on others they could intimidate around here I was told. The guns never came out for me. Most bullies back off when you call their bluff with enough overpowering force to let them know you are serious. The law (Constitutional) says the homeowner CAN stay to protect his property and the lives of others (and don't forget THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS). The Head Sheriff openly admitted that at the public fire meeting after my refusal to leave. Did I have a part in that admission? I'll likely never know.
So if coldness can be generated when necessary by someone who cares, think how easy it is for the ones who think they are better than us to step on the ants we know as the working class citizens and common people of the United States. To them we are as low as the enemy in foreign countries our military demonizes to our children, so they can get them to kill them like they are inhuman, lower than dogs, for the sake of oil and profit. More money for the greedy world bankers and corporations at the expense of the lives and limbs of our children. They don't care that our children are coming back with their brains in baskets or still on their shoulders but unrecognizable as anything human. You don't get to see those pictures as it will turn you against the war, but I have as I research this stuff on foreign websites.
For all of this death on both sides, how many terrorists have been stopped -- considering that 9/11 was pulled by our people? It looks like none. The enemy in Iraq are simply protecting their homes and families from the occupation forces who are killing them in droves. I don't blame the soldiers either - they are sucked into this by our evil government and it's kill or be killed. How much money has been made for the elite by ruinng the economy, selling war machines and increasing oil prices? Billions. Remember - the rich are going global. The working class of America no longer need jobs. They will make their money from the rule of the world.
Thanks for the encouragement, Catherine. If anyone is still listening, please open your eyes and speak up. It is easier to spread the word if more will look and talk about it. I don't want to be the lone crazy person. I want thousands of us. If in the future I am considered important enough to be silenced, I will have accomplished my goal.
It never hurts for people to know the truth. Sure some don't want to know since it creates issues with their view of reality. My mother is like that. She never wants to hear about anything bad in the world and just looks away instead of seeing it. While knowing the truth is good not knowing what to do with it can be dangerous for some. Being smart enough to figure it out can be a problem for alot of folks.
I think that just knowing allows you to make better informed decisions in a later emergency situation in any case, or if the system falls apart.
If I was not informed and educated in these matters I would have stayed down the hill during our fire, like the rest who dare not question authority and are afraid to look.
Catherine, I view public education as a part of the programming necessary to get children to respond like sheep to bells, whistles, unquestioning loyalty to a leader or mascot, and unquestioningly follow the orders of authority figures - right or wrong. The destruction of the independent thinker. Good job on home schooling.
I'm not putting down those who must use the public system. Spend extra time working with your children to educate them in addition to the state sponsored propaganda and conditioning taught at the public schools.
Media Blackout On Cheney Iran False Flag Story
Steve Watson
Prisonplanet.com
Saturday, Aug 2, 2008
The mainstream American corporate press has once again proven itself to be no better than the state controlled media in places like Communist China or Zimbabwe, by steadfastly refusing to print even a mention of the huge story concerning veteran journalist Seymour Hersh's recent comments that the vice president wanted to carry out a false flag operation to provoke a war with Iran.
The outright complicity of the corporate media in blackballing this story reminds us how the neocon cabal in the White House has consistently been able to conspire, lie and twist the truth for its own ill gotten gains without facing any substantial public scrutiny.
As we reported Thursday, Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh revealed how the neocons convened around Dick Cheney and brainstormed ways to kick off World War IV.
"There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war," Hersh explained. "The one that interested me the most was why don't we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up."
Given that only a few weeks ago Hersh's exclusive story concerning the vamping up of covert U.S. military activity inside Iran made headlines everywhere, in every major publication and outlet, it begs the question where are they now for an even bigger story?
con't @ http://www.infowars.com/?p=3703
Just this past week I had to go to Nursing Ed Day. One of the classes that is mandatory is on traumatic brain injury (TBI) I forget the % of troops coming back who have been diagnosed with this - its very high - and there are many more that haven't been diagnosed with TBI who have changes that are very subtle. It is very sad that these young people, who volunteered to put their lives on the line to "protect our country", are having their lives totally screwed up - if it isn't from injury, it is from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) from serving 2-3 mandatory tours. Especially criminal when you read that article above >:( There are video/audio clips of Sy Hersch quoting Cheney & co discussing their options... disgusting
Catherine, I agree with you - someone once said, in so many words, that if a person can't govern (control) himself within then he will be governed (controlled) without. Sadly, I think that speaks for a lot of people in our country...
Something you might want to watch on C-Span
The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder
Watch now!
Author: Vincent Bugliosi
http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9611&SectionName=Politics&PlayMedia=No
I hope I'm wrong, but the bomb Iran propaganda is comming fast and furious lately, so I predict the next war will start before the election in November.
I have been watching c-span lately. Used to be I didn't care but I have changed recently. I got to see T. Boone Pickens make his pitch and it is interesting to see the house and senate in session. I saw some discussion recently about impeachment of Bush but I think it was decided that it would be a waste with the election coming up shortly.
i think that there is a very good chance that bush will attack iran before he gets out of office.
Quote from: benevolance on July 31, 2008, 10:23:46 PMthat Way Ron Paul could run and not be ignored by mainstream media...Have his debates cancelled have his delegates taken away from him..
He was forced to run as a Republican because as a independant 20 years ago he got no funding coverage or exposure...
If the nation wanted a third party, they would have funded one. No funding = no support. The free market works!
I think it is alllllll glenn's fault!
I hope you read everything I wrote and take it to heart, Stink. I have a real handle on it. :)
In a way it is my fault Stink.... but I refuse to take my precious time and donate it to the US. Life is too short for me to take time out and straighten out the problems of the world. Just call me selfish. I guess that is the problem. hmm
Quote from: StinkerBell on August 03, 2008, 04:59:08 PM
I think it is alllllll glenn's fault!
rofl rofl Never a doubt
THE REPUBLICAN NAT'L CONVENTION SENT ME AN E-MAIL TODAY BLAMING THE DEMS FOR GOING ON VACATION WITHOUT PASSING AN ENERGY BILL.
I SENT THEM A REPLY:
SHAME-SHAME ON YOU AND YOUR DEMOCRATIC COUNTER PARTS. YOU FIGHT LIKE CHILDREN WHILE THE COUNTRY SUFFERS. I WILL DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO VOTE OUT INCUMBENTS IN THE FUTURE.
I vote that we make Washington DC into a national sanitary landfill.
;) glenn
Everything is your fault.
Todays example, my teenager's are acting horrible so I tell myself "must be glenn's fault".
I take responsibility for that, Stink.
You see, my massive influence over your thought processes has caused you to communicate with them in terms and concepts they no longer understand. Your state brainwashing is being torn asunder piece by piece. They don't know how to handle that but to rebel.
Their loss of their former scared, unenlightened mother figure and replacement by a knowing, and positive thinking action ready mother has left them alone and confused.
Give them time, Stink - time and steady unwavering guidance as I have given you....and they will slowly come around.
d*
Glenn could you drop by Nancy Pilosi's and give her some of that guidance. That woman is way of track and I think she comes from your neck of the woods. Instead of working on the energy bill she was working to make sure the toy industry was being regulated properly in terms of child safety. I guess she isn't aware enough to realize that with the price at the pump no one will be buying any of those toys this Christmas anyway. So if you are in the neighborhood you might drop by and provide some enlightenment.
You've seen what I've done here, desdawg.
I can do a lot of things but I'm not God. hmm
He's going to have to do his own job to straighten out Washington DC, then things may get better.
I thought maybe you could stop by to borrow a cup of sugar tell a few lies and then take it from there.
Nancy and I haven't been getting it on at all well since she immunized George from impeachment, des.
It could be a plan but lies seem to be in short supply right now at least for the working class, as the politicians have been using them like they are going out of style. Many of our politicians have bed sores from lying so much. d*
Sounds like those Dem's are all going to Denver and tell each other lies about how well the country is doing and what a great job they are doing. If the abomination get's elected I will have to move to Mexico where I will be able to afford to live.
Now that would be funny. Millions of Americans moving to Mexico. rofl
Without going through the immigration process. I have a friend with a solar powered house in Puerto Penasco aka Rocky Point.
That works if you have the cash and don't need to work. They don't allow Americans to work down there.
I don't know about a work visa process or anything like that.
I flew by Puerto or (Punta) Penasco about 15 times in my plane.
Sassy and I and kids stayed in Bahia Kino once when we had to divert around a big storm.
The Americans down there wwere the most unhelpful of anyone we met. The Mexicans down there were always friendly and helpful, unless you happened to meet a criminal one - then they would like to kill you and steal your money leaving you bleeding to death in the sand. They probably only make up about 1/2% of the population though fortunately. There are a good amount of kids and others into petty theft also. No harm to you but will steal anything that is not tied down.
Our friend in Kerman - worked for me a while is a native Mexican and is fearful to go down there if driving.
On the vote - I think there needs to be a vast petition signing effort to get a box added to check on the Ballot.
(https://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z85/snoweygoo/lgredcheck.gif) None of the above
I like it. We could call it non-partisan. I might even donate to that one.
Question is what happens if "None of the above" wins the election?
We all win Scott.
Quote from: desdawg on August 05, 2008, 12:10:47 PM
We all win Scott.
That made me not only laugh, but snort too!
Easy StinkerBell. If no one is in charge it wouldn't be all that different.
The laughter was in total agreement with you and I found it so funny. Your comment just hit my funny bone just right.
,,,
Quote from: desdawg on August 05, 2008, 05:53:07 PM
Easy StinkerBell. If no one is in charge it wouldn't be all that different.
...except there would be no one to direct the slaughter of our soldiers, the Iraqi's, start a war with Iran and steal the money from the peasants here.
...wait a minute -- this is sounding better all the time.
Lets go for it.
Sounds good to me c*