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What do you think of our new VP?

(http://rattlergator.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c838c53ef00e5529557888834-pi)


http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/167221

Thought I would post this and keep track of if these guys have a clue.





updated image

Now that's what we really need... a babe governor.

She's a heck of a lot better looking than Cheney though.  That ought to be worth something. rofl

Hope she has a better aim than him.

Cute. Hillary ain't got nothin' on her.

Still think the election isn't rigged? 

The Russians knew this before it happened - note my posting date --- sorry the link no longer works and the original picture was gone so I updated it.

iraqwar.ru had this in June.

I still have a hard time believing this --- Nobody in the US had a clue....but Russia knew it months ago....  hmm   must have been a leak.   d*

I feel like I'm talking to myself.... [crz]

I'm sure it was more than just a lucky guess.  8)

hard for hillary to have looks...I mean she is not a young woman anymore... Not that she was ever playboy material...Just that she is in her 60's now... How old is this Alaskan governor...I would not say much older than early 40's

44 and 5 kids - last with downs, born in April.

I love how ignorant that last guy in the article is.  Willow is a town here, Piper is a type of plane(something we get a lot of use out of here), and Track most likely has something to do with a snowmachine.  Some people really are clueless as to what Alaska is all about.  I say screw 'em, less morons I have to deal with.  

Did you know we just got running water, and 'lectricity?  d*  Oh yeah, and it's always dark and cold up here.

Dang -- the link worked again -- I'll be darned.

Correct me if I'm wrong Glenn, but that looks like an opinion piece to me.  Not that I disagree that this whole political process is a setup, and the outcome is already decided. >:(  Just like football, I love watching it, but there are so many question marks at times that I think it's fixed.  If you're a gambler, I guess it's just a matter of figuring out which side it's fixed for.

There are commenters from all over the world and no censorship that I know of so likely there may be derogatory comments there.

I just can't get over how there was no question in the posters mind that Sarah was McSame's pick in June.

Quote"You heard this first on Iraq-War.ru .....Pictorial: Meet McCain's Vice-President . ......
By: Bulov on: 14.06.2008 [01:54 ] (1117 reads)"

Note that I have nothing against her - maybe one of the best I've seen but this is too much.  d*

Mad Dog -- possibly opinion piece but there was no question in Bulov's mind when he posted that --

QuoteYou heard this first on Iraq-War.ru

I'd love to know where you dug up that interesting little tidbit?  I do a lot of research myself outside the MSM propaganda machine, and hadn't come across this.  There was plenty of speculation that this would happen up here, but nothing concrete.  I had told my girlfriend earlier that it would be either Romney or Palin, but that was more of a gut feeling based on past experience. 

Posting the Iraqwar.ru article here for reference information only ---

QuoteYou heard this first on Iraq-War.ru .....Pictorial: Meet McCain's Vice-President . ......
By: Bulov on: 14.06.2008 [01:54 ] (1117 reads)
   

(922 bytes) [c]    Print
Sarah Louise Heath Palin (born February 11 1964 in Sandpoint, Idaho) is the current Governor of Alaska.

She is the youngest governor in Alaskan history (forty-two years old upon taking office), as well as the first woman to hold the office in Alaska. In addition to being Alaska's youngest governor, Palin is also the first who was born after Alaska achieved statehood. She is also the first Alaska governor not to be inaugurated in Juneau, instead choosing to hold her inauguration ceremony in Fairbanks. She took office on Monday, December 4, 2006. Her Lieutenant Governor is Sean Parnell. Palin is the former mayor of Wasilla, Alaska.

Personal
Palin's husband, Todd, works on the North Slope and is a commercial fisherman. She also has four children: Bristol, Piper, Track, and Willow. They live in Wasilla, about 40 miles north of Anchorage.

http://roadsassy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/sarah-palin.jpg

Note that this makes no reference to her being McSames VP.  Bulov knew for sure at that date it was her.


The people who post there may be insiders in different areas of the world as they are very knowledgeable about things happening all over- economics - etc.

Quote from: Mad Dog on August 29, 2008, 11:41:24 AM
I'd love to know where you dug up that interesting little tidbit?  I do a lot of research myself outside the MSM propaganda machine, and hadn't come across this.  There was plenty of speculation that this would happen up here, but nothing concrete.  I had told my girlfriend earlier that it would be either Romney or Palin, but that was more of a gut feeling based on past experience. 

I know we can't trust the MSM propaganda, Mad Dog and the day Bulov posted this I posted it on our forum as I knew I would never find it again if I didn't.  I follow that site daily to see the news of the world/US wars and the worlds take on it.  I weigh their opinions to sort out the truth.  The comments after the article are the most interesting and insightful many times.

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/tiki-index.php

Comments there are not what is pleasing to the US but they are what the rest of the world sees.

I do not delude myself into thinking the US is the benevolent savior and police of the world.  Big business, the war machine and world banking have stolen our country.

I thought this would be significant if true so posted it that day.

...let's play pretend.....  I'll be president, you can be vice president....   [rofl2]

Update

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/173656

When she went to Iraq, my suspicions were innocent.  I assumed she went thee becasue of one of tow things: 1) a large number of troops deploy from Alaska to Iraq and she was going to visit them to show her support or 2) Her oldest son had just enlisted and she wanted to see for herself what the future may hold for him.

I never thought that it was part of the great war machinery industrial complex.  In AK, she does a good job of being tough on big oil business, asking old, power hungry, corrupt Republicans to step down including Senator Ted Stevens and the Alaska Republican Chairman.

These things are planned to far in advance and setup too well for it to have been innocent.

Surprisingly -- I think she is OK. 

...even though this is an obvious setup that they are trying to pretend is new news and a new spur of the moment decision on McCain's part --- the un-surprise part.

She could be alright for the country - depending on the intents, strategies and moves of the puppet masters.  She is one of the few pollies who have a child in the military.

Good for her on Stevens - even Ron Paul sold out to his Pork Barrel buddy, Stevens.  I quit thinking Paul was OK when he quit supporting 9/11 Truth.


I hope McCain doesn't soil her. [crz]

I like her.  I think McCain hit a home run with this pick. 

I listened to her speech this morning... it was hard to hear because of the big sucking sound made by all the Hillarites leaving the Obama camp.

Frank, you think they would move clear over to the other side of the stream?

This just in.

It appears that Sarah Palin has just received the endorsement of the TVA.









Testosterone Voters of America

Interesting choice. I'll have to read up on her a bit since she may end up being prez at some point. McSame is not that young anymore.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 29, 2008, 04:06:34 PM
Frank, you think they would move clear over to the other side of the stream?

Hell hath no fury like a scorned democrat woman.

or something like that.

Liberals strike me as being prone to be motivated more by emotion than logic.

Read this if you have time:



August 27, 2008
High Anxiety in the Mile-High City
By MAUREEN DOWD
DENVER
I've been to a lot of conventions, and there's always something gratifyingly weird that happens.
Dan Quayle acting like a Dancing Hamster. Teresa Heinz Kerry reprising Blanche DuBois. Dick Morris getting nabbed triangulating between a hooker and toes.
But this Democratic convention has a vibe so weird and jittery, so at odds with the early thrilling, fairy dust feel of the Obama revolution, that I had to consult with Mike Murphy, the peppery Republican strategist and former McCain guru.
"What is that feeling in the air?" I asked him.
"Submerged hate," he promptly replied.
Ah, yes, now I recognize that sulfurous aroma.
There were a lot of bitter Clinton associates, fund-raisers and supporters wandering the halls, spewing vindictiveness, complaining of slights, scheming about Hillary's roll call and plotting trouble, with some in the Clinton coterie dissing Obama by planning early departures, before the nominee even speaks.
At a press conference with New York reporters on Monday, Hillary looked as if she was straining at the bit to announce her 2012 exploratory committee.
"Remember, 18 million people voted for me, 18 million people, give or take, voted for Barack," she said, making a faux pro-Obama point. She keeps acting like her delegates are out of her control, when she's been privately egging people on to keep her dream alive as long as possible and no matter what the cost to Obama.
Hillary also said she was happy about the choice of Joe Biden because he added "intensity" to the ticket. Ouch.
Ed Rendell, the governor of Pennsylvania who is planning to vote for Hillary in the roll call, compared Obama to the passive-aggressive egghead Adlai Stevenson and told The Washington Post that Obama gives six-minute answers and "is not exactly the easiest guy in the world to identify with."
I've never actually seen a convention where the energy was so absorbed by people who had lost the nomination, rather than the one who had won.
At a meeting of the Democratic women's caucus Tuesday, 74-year-old Carol Anderson of Vancouver, Wash., a former Hillary volunteer, stood in the back of the room in a Hillary T-shirt and hat signed by Hillary and "Nobama" button and booed every time any of the women speakers mentioned Obama's name.
She's voting for McCain and thinks the Democrats put up a minority to stop another minority so that the boy's club would not be breached. She had nothing nice to say about the Obamas.
What about the kids, I asked her.
"Adorable," she agreed. Well, I said, Michelle raised them.
"I think her mother does," Anderson shot back, adding: "I wonder if Michelle would give the Queen one of her little knuckle punches?"
Bill Clinton is brooding in his hotel suite at Brown Palace Hotel, like the outcast Grendel lurking on the outskirts of the town where young Beowulf lived.
Bill's pals said he was still gnawing at his many grievances against the younger version of himself he has to praise Wednesday night; the latest one being that the Obama folks, like all winners, wanted control over Bill's speech, so that he did not give a paean to himself and his economic record, which is what he wanted to do, because he was insane that Obama said a couple critical things about his administration during a heated campaign.
Finally, Obama had to give in on Monday and say he would allow the ex-president to do exactly as he likes, which is what he usually does anyhow.
Obama's pacification of Bill made his supporters depressed and anxious that he was going to be a weaker candidate than they had hoped and fearful that, as in Obama's favorite movie, "The Godfather," every time Democrats try to get away, the Clintons pull them back in.
"People just constantly underestimate the narcissism, beyond narcissism, of the Clintons," said one top Democrat. "They keep thinking they can manage them. I wish Obama would just tell them 'Shut up. You guys have only cared about yourselves for much too long. Get over it.' "
And Democrats have begun internalizing the criticisms of Hillary and John McCain about Obama's rock-star prowess, worrying that the Invesco Field extravaganza Thursday, with Bruce Springsteen and Bon Jovi, will just add to the celebrity cachet that Democrats have somehow been shamed into seeing as a negative.
So that added to the weird mood at the convention, with some Democrats nitpicking Obama's appearance, after Michelle's knock-out speech and the fabulously cute girls, with a reassuring white family in a town he couldn't remember at first. They wondered why he wasn't wearing a tie, fearing he looked too young, and second-guessed Michelle's green dress, wondering if it clashed with the blue stage, and fretted that there wasn't a speaker Monday night attacking McCain and yelling about gas prices.
"We're seeing a train wreck all over again," said one top Democrat. "I'm telling you, man, it's something about our party, the shtetl mentality."

Wouldn't it be really interesting to know when and by who that "choice" was made, since obviously it was made long ago.  

(http://www.leadpipeposters.com/images/1557.jpg)

Seems to indicate there really are two powers fighting for control since Obama was intended to derail Hillary.

Interesting read, Frank -- and at the end the admission of Jewish (read Zionist) influence in our government.  

shtetl  (shttl, shttl)
n. pl. shtetls or shtet·lach (-lä)
A small Jewish town or village formerly found throughout Eastern Europe.
[Yiddish, from Middle High German stetel, diminutive of stat, town, from Old High German, place; see st- in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Quote from: ScottA on August 29, 2008, 04:49:03 PM
Seems to indicate there really are two powers fighting for control since Obama was intended to derail Hillary.

That could be the indication, Scott, but then again it could be all in the script.

Not really sure if McCain hit a home run with this choice, however, he has someone on base and the weeks to come will reveal if they both can score.



My prediction.....if the Cubs win the Series........McCain is in.

Just a gut feeling. The last series the Cubs won was 1908. Teddy R. was president. He was a Republican.

Some times history repeats itself...........

Sarah is EXTREMELY popular here in Alaska---her approval ratings have run from 92% to about 84% lately. As has been said; "She is the hottest governor from the coldest state." Obama was actually looking like he would carry Alaska----I think that is now doubtful.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 29, 2008, 03:57:44 PM


She could be alright for the country - depending on the intents, strategies and moves of the puppet masters.  She is one of the few pollies who have a child in the military.

You do know Capt. McCain has sons in the military right?

Quite a ways down the page under Cultural and political image

Link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain



His family's military tradition extends to the latest generation: son John Sidney IV ("Jack") is enrolled in the U.S. Naval Academy, son James has served with the Marines in Iraq, and son Doug flew jets in the Navy.[

Strong Naval tradition.   :)   [cool] 

Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 29, 2008, 04:53:47 PM

Quote from: ScottA on August 29, 2008, 04:49:03 PM
Seems to indicate there really are two powers fighting for control since Obama was intended to derail Hillary.

That could be the indication, Scott, but then again it could be all in the script.

No...Glenn. I think there's a real fight about to take place. I posted in another thread that this race was decided. I just didn't know who won yet.

That all changed today. There are millions of Americans just like me. Wouldn't take a wizz on Obama if he was on fire. Many more deluded souls that wanted Hillary because she was a woman. Many that hate MCcain but what else is out there so why vote.

Now throw the new girl in the mix. I like her politics. She's smart, tough, inexperienced enough to be honest. She's a woman ;). Add Jessie Jackson's big mouth and many black voters think he's the second coming.

AND

Realize that McCain may well not live through the first year and she would be president

You now have a lot of undecided votes going Republican

I think McCain, who was stranded in the arctic circle in his boxers, just showed up in Port Royal with a million dollar smile and a pocket full of Maple leaf silver dollars. ;D

I'm going to buy an end of the world size popcorn...and watch.

It could be interesting to watch and see.  I hope she uses protection --- ???

Not that Kind -- I mean - She may need protection from those who don't like her there. [crz]

She is the first one I have hopes for of being able to improve things. 

I like this choice. I'm surprised and impressed.

I also note the title of this topic "New VP".... not New VP Candidate. I hope that doesn't jinx things.

Yeah -- when I posted that title a couple months ago, I was thinking -- I don't know what this guy knows but I'll stick it out there in case it happens -- it was kind of tongue in cheek at the time.  I just didn't want to lose track of it   

Quote from: PEG688 on August 29, 2008, 10:19:58 PM

Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 29, 2008, 03:57:44 PM


She could be alright for the country - depending on the intents, strategies and moves of the puppet masters.  She is one of the few pollies who have a child in the military.

You do know Capt. McCain has sons in the military right?

Quite a ways down the page under Cultural and political image

Link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain



His family's military tradition extends to the latest generation: son John Sidney IV ("Jack") is enrolled in the U.S. Naval Academy, son James has served with the Marines in Iraq, and son Doug flew jets in the Navy.[

I forgot until you mentioned it, PEG, but, yes, now I remember reading it before.  Navy guy can't be all bad, eh, PEG? :)

An interesting choice. Having never been in the house or senate there is no voting record on national and international hot issues to slam or brag about. The lady is relatively an unknown commodity to most. This is really a tactical choice. Glenn has even been neutralized. It should be interesting to see how it plays out.

Quote from: desdawg on August 30, 2008, 08:50:11 AM
An interesting choice. Having never been in the house or senate there is no voting record on national and international hot issues to slam or brag about. The lady is relatively an unknown commodity to most. This is really a tactical choice. Glenn has even been neutralized. It should be interesting to see how it plays out.

Not being in the house or senate, she has missed her greatest chance for being corrupted.  The lobbyists and big business haven't gotten to her and in Alaska she has handled the corruption and fat cats well not letting them soil her.  She even dumped her own BIL - maybe a family problem influenced matter but - I can see where it could easily cause complications that were not in the interests of the people so I am for that.

I watched an Alaska video  podcast on her about 8 months ago where she walked from her house to work with the reporter - talked with him like he was a real important person and with the viewers like they meant something to her.  I couldn't even find anything wrong with her then. 

Sorry guys. [crz] d*

Quote from: glenn kangiser on August 30, 2008, 02:45:58 AM


I forgot until you mentioned it, PEG, but, yes, now I remember reading it before.  Navy guy can't be all bad, eh, PEG? :)

It's interesting he seldom mentions it. I think due to what his Father went thur when he was in captured, maybe. Doesn't want his son's and they mates in any "added" danger maybe ?

Most politician's how had kids in the hunt would be using that "advantage"  I think.

I'm not sure about this lady, maybe the lack of experience , as you've been pointing out is a plus. I hope they vetted her very well , so of those firings are being investigated. MTL she had just cause, it's hard to just fire anyone today without it being the busness owners fault.  ::)     

I am affraid she is being set up for something. Shes so squeaky clean and new to the big show that something stinks here. I watched Obamas speach last night and her's this morning. I think McCain got himself an edge Obama will have a tough time with.

I find that in Politicians, experince is a minus.  They get away from caring for the people and into lining their own pockets or caring for their own interest.

Ron Paul is a good example of this.  Talked a great talk at first - I almost liked him.  Then he dropped the 9/11 Truth movement which finished him.  The people have no other support in the snake pit.  The coverup remains.  Then to add to the insult he supported the Pork Barrel Senator, likely in return for getting help filling his Pork Barrell.  I doubt he will ever be taken seriously again now that he has shown his true colors.  The people who trusted him were betrayed and won't be fooled again...  

That's what I have come to expect of most politicians.

I hope she is real and I hope she can do something without getting her hands tied if she gets in.

I agree, Scott.  I think she is McCain's only hope because he'd have a hard time making it on his own merits. 

The new thing about this I think is that she is as close as the people will ever get to having one of their own in the DC rather than dirty soiled career politicians that only have their own interests at heart.

She is as close to the dream some of the common people have of becoming president as we will ever get that I can see.

Hopefully McCain will just sit back and let her run things like Bush does with Cheney, if they get in there. [crz]

The muckrakers are starting to drag the dirt out so I may need to reserve my opinion until all of this is in the open.

I like what I had heard about her so far and have no problem with her wanting to drill Alaska or fire the BIL who threatened the family in Sister Molly's divorce.  The daughter pregnancy, downs/baby coverup if true is deceptive at least.

She's still cute though.

What is the daughter pregnancy, downs baby cover up you mentioned?--the downs child exists and was given birth by Sarah--no doubt at all of that--too many doctors and nurses involved to even attempt to manufacture any sort of "cover up". Alaska is like a small town---very hard to keep anything secret for long.  Sarah, (good and bad) is for real----a real "frontier Alaskan woman". There are quite a few like her up here and we'll take all there are available. She's not some sort of saint or mythological creature---just a real strong woman who has that rarest combination of character traits-----principles and pragmatism. She knows what she believes in and how to get things done----will happily work with anyone for a good goal----doesn't seem to care if you are an R or a D or anything else. As others have said in this thread---experience is not always helpful in a politician who wants to change things---too often it gets in the way and/or forces your thinking into old well-worn paths.

Quote from: rwanders on August 31, 2008, 03:58:33 PM
What is the daughter pregnancy, downs baby cover up you mentioned?--the downs child exists and was given birth by Sarah--no doubt at all of that--too many doctors and nurses involved to even attempt to manufacture any sort of "cover up". Alaska is like a small town---very hard to keep anything secret for long.  Sarah, (good and bad) is for real----a real "frontier Alaskan woman". There are quite a few like her up here and we'll take all there are available. She's not some sort of saint or mythological creature---just a real strong woman who has that rarest combination of character traits-----principles and pragmatism. She knows what she believes in and how to get things done----will happily work with anyone for a good goal----doesn't seem to care if you are an R or a D or anything else. As others have said in this thread---experience is not always helpful in a politician who wants to change things---too often it gets in the way and/or forces your thinking into old well-worn paths.

I couldn't agree more. Glenn, the biggest thing we need to do is get away from professional politicians. I know, you know. It just sounded for a second that you were being tortured by a soccer mom. :)

Think about it. Professionals all have baggage but lie about it and really cover it up...professionally. ???

What would come up if any of us ran for President or Vice President....Good lord, the petty stuff they could come up. Especially people that sell things here rofl

Anyway, the more I read about her, the more I like her and she could well be the one to destroy Hillary's ego, once and for all. The first woman VP and the first woman president via the Presidents death...and if she does as well as I think she may, the first elected woman VP.

I love to sit around amd make jokes about a woman President stamping her little foot..while Jane just looks away with that exasperated  (Not again) look.
The truth is, I have no problem with a woman VP or President at all......I just want a good one! c*

I'm with you, Peter, and didn't post a link to the guys info or dis-info as I didn't want to give his story any more mileage if not true.  I figure it will sho up soon enough.

I'm still in favor of getting a real person in there so I'm for her.`

Well as far as the firing of the brother in law... it is a conflict of interest... If the guy is an asshole and he is married to her sister it is not upto her to get the guy fired...And if she uses her clout to make sure he is fired then she stepped over the line..

Sadly we both know that business as usual for politicians means that they use their connections to get what they want when they want... regardless of who else is affected...

Now if the cop beat his wife.. then I would be the first one to say he should be charged...Or just let a few good ole boys take care of him....But because he was married to her sister and it got ugly nasty..Yelling and screaming...She does not have the authority to decide whether or not he is capable of doing his job.

With what she knew about him it could have been a conflict of interest to let him stay also - nepotism?

Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 01, 2008, 11:55:19 PM
With what she knew about him it could have been a conflict of interest to let him stay also - nepotism?

Darn if she did darn if she didn't. no win situation. BUt the guy was a big butt and probably felt empowered because who his SIL and felt he was beyond the law. He tasered his own child.

Now that is one brave courageous cop for you.  I wasn't aware of that.

Now I know he deserved to get fired but should have also been incarcerated and tasered.  Taser deaths are on the rise -- someone should do it to him.

I think that he is actually facing charges or being investigated for the alleged taser incident.Which is what is supposed to happen...

Like it or not we have to follow the legal system even if it is flawed...We cannot use our power or influence to punish others even if they are mean, angry or evil... I know we are not used to seeing any morals in our leaders and politicians...But those who would lead should be held to an even higher standard morally.

It is a clear abuse of power to use your office and standing to have someone removed because they are having relationship problems with your sister.

And yeah I know that asking for leaders that follow the rules and the law and use morality means that 99.9% of all of the people out there running for some form of office are worthless...But we have to call a duck a duck...

Possibly it was because of the kind of person he was and things he was doing and not because of the sister.  Hopefully she will use some of her power, scruples  and morals  to help right the illegal signing orders and destruction of the Constitution wrought by Dubya.  Seems she has a sense of right and wrong.  More than any of them currently holding office have.

I've got it on first hand information, that NO ONE that works in the emergency room at the local hospital here in the Valley, want that cop in there.  He is an arrogant, abusive, prick.

Whether she is using the office to  further an agenda, who knows.  I do know that Monegan, the guy she let go, serves at the "pleasure" of the Governor.  She hired him, she can fire him. I think it comes down to the "blue wall".  Most cops are going to cover the other cops asses.  So although this trooper should probably have been fired, he still has a job.

McCain is not the only one to have children in the Military.  Biden's son is being deployed to Iraq too. 
It seems that the SHTF with the background checking.  The big news that I see people focusing on is the Alaska Independence Party.  Did Palin really speak at the 2007 convention?  Is the platform of that party really to have Alaska as a separate nation or territory?  Many people on here are homesteaders in Alaska.  Can you help me understand, is this a widely held view in that state?

Squirl,

For many many years there has always been talk and some would say hope for Alaska to succeed from the rest of the US.
YOu kinda have to live in Alaska to understand it.  You also need to get separate insurance on your car in case a moose sits on it and do not forget when you come in, especially on the ALCAN you need to exchange your money.

I don't live there now but I went to school in Fairbanks  in '92 and hung out with a local (he was my roomie) off campus in Wasilla.  Succession came up a lot in conversations, both young and old crowds.  Then again so did MTF, even watched a moose shaped bowl cleaned out by an old timer in the middle of a family party...weird (if you don't know what that all means, you don't need to, but if you do  ;)).  But then again this was where I had a spaghetti dinner at 7:00 AM because that is when they eat dinner-it was the only time of the day the family could all be together.

Stinkerbell. 
I did not know this about Alaska.  This is very disturbing to me.  This election seems to be as much about the VP as the President.  McCain has recurring cancer/health/age issues and Obama has many people out to get him (Denver morons plot). There is an equal chance that either may not be able to serve a full term. If this is a widely held view that she supports, it is unsettling that she would want to be president of a country that she believed Alaska should secede from. I live in PA.  In many parts of this country  that had to deal with the past of the civil war, the word secession is unpatriotic.

If the government was run according to the constitution no state would talk of secession. As it stands now I can't really blame the people in Alaska for talking about it. I don't think it will ever happen though.

Many people are on the verge of wanting the USA to change it's course.  If that is part of the reason she is trying to get in and can do something to fix the rudder of The USS USA, then mpre power to her.  If it will be business as usual then I don't want her or anyone else.  

Well ..... OK ... She can stay but the rest have to go....



...and Scott, I agree with you 100%

I don't really think secession has anything to do with patriotism.  I think it comes about by being abandoned or the feel of abandonment by your government.  Not getting the support, money that the state needs.  Maybe they feel that they can do better off on their own. With the truth known they probably can.

Maybe if she can shake all the adverse publicity and actually get into a position to help she very well could change her view on that issue.  It's a womens perogative isn't it.

Hawaii -also claims it was never legally made a state and many there want out.  I don't blame any of them.

Hawaii was conquered fair and square. Remember the rule- He with the most guns gets to pick the flag.

Someone forgot to tell the natives that...

Quote from: StinkerBell on September 02, 2008, 03:35:04 PM
Squirl,

For many many years there has always been talk and some would say hope for Alaska to succeed from the rest of the US.
YOu kinda have to live in Alaska to understand it.  You also need to get separate insurance on your car in case a moose sits on it and do not forget when you come in, especially on the ALCAN you need to exchange your money.

Funny/Sad thing about the money.  I was in the local gas station in Tok one day after crossing back in from Canada, and there was a guy in there that asked if we took Canadian money, American money, or Alaskan money.  Funny but pathetic the ignorance of some people.  Told him Alaska was the 49th state in the union.....he quickly paid and took off after that. d* ;D

So you mean, American  money is OK then? hmm rofl

Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 02, 2008, 04:41:19 PM
So you mean, American  money is OK then? hmm rofl

..or traveler's checks if you have 'em. [slap] rofl rofl

I can hardly wait until it's gold only....wish I had some...

Speaking of gold.  Do you remember when the cuuancy stated payable in Gold or payable in Silver????

Now it is payable in "basemetal"...    I tested this on a "copper penney". I touched my torch to ia and it------ Disappeared   ???

Quote from: gandalfthegrey on September 02, 2008, 05:39:36 PM
Speaking of gold.  Do you remember when the cuuancy stated payable in Gold or payable in Silver????

Now it is payable in "basemetal"...    I tested this on a "copper penney". I touched my torch to ia and it------ Disappeared   ???

You don't understand high finance.

A penny is really worth a quarter....but onlt after drilling a hole in it and using it as a crush washer! ???

Squirl,

What's your position on Guam and Puerto Rico?

After the war of the Northern Aggression did they not amend the original constitution making it illegal to suceed?

Well if that is fact benevolance it wont stop people from talking or hoping about it heh
Heck I talk about declaring war on the USA all the time. I plan to let them win then demand that they pay me back and rebuild upgrade my home.

If that happens they may want to rebuild Glenn's above ground Stink.
I was trying to watch the convention but they won't get the show on the road. I guess if the weather is bad in New Orleans you can't have a meeting in Minneapolis.  ??? I am tired of hearing all of the speculation about what it may be like. Let's get on with it. Bush seems to be ostrasized and isn't going to show up even in Texas.
I might consider voting for Palin if she could get rid of McCain. He is really going to drag her down. But then again I might vote for Biden if he could just get rid of Obama. Truth is I don't want more of the same. I want change. The lines between the choices are getting fuzzy. The Democrats were preaching change. Now Sarah is supposed to represent change. Two mules for sister Sarah. She already has one and he invited her to the party so I suppose he has to stay. I just want to hear the lady speak to some issues.

Just wanted to mention something about Todd and Sarah's kids.  Someone(not from Alaska) brought up that he couldn't get behind anyone who would put "hippie" names on their kids.  Well, ignorance truly is bliss.  Here's the rundown: 

Trig is a Scandinavian name that is special to Todd's family.  He is Scandinavian.

Track is in honor of Sarah's father who was a track coach.

Willow is named after the town Willow,AK, or the Diamond Willow that grows here(don't have info on that). 

Piper would be named after a Piper aircraft, whether it is a Cub or Supercub(the Palin's fly, as do many of us here).

Finally, Bristol would be named after Bristol Bay, AK(Although I've heard a rumor that has to do with Bristol, CT and ESPN, but I doubt it).

All have something to do with Alaska or the Palin family.

I have always liked the name Denali.

Quote from: StinkerBell on September 02, 2008, 09:06:06 PM
I have always liked the name Denali.

Me too. [cool]  Got some good shots of the summit a couple weeks ago when my parents and nephew were here. 

Wow - A guy disappears for a week at the lake and misses all the news. Note to self - Get satellite radio.

I voted for Sarah once and most likely will again.

I even bought a pizza from her sister in "Wasilly" last week.

Mike

Now that really is cool, Mike.

Remember that no matter how good looking she is, somewhere some guy is tired of her crap.

I've had enough of more of the same.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080903/D92VHQP05.html

The speech sounded good. And I hope that some of what was contained in that speech can be transfered to the Washington heirarchy and some changes can really be made. I was a about ready to abandon any McCain support and said so in the letter I sent back without a contribution. I wonder how long it takes to contaminate a newcomer and if she has had her vaccinations. It was neat to see Gulianai beaming from ear to ear while she was speaking. He kind of set the tone for the dem bashing and she joined right in. I think Huckabee actually took a few shots before that. The showmanship was there and we can only hope it wasn't just smoke and mirrors. I am always suspicious of that. They probably all had the same speech writer.

Welcome to the White House. 

Will all politicians please check their brains in at the front desk. 

They will be held in the White House Safe and may be returned to you when leaving office....subject to inspection and approval by the DHS and Mossad.

The speech didnt do much for me.   McCain's campaign staffer has already said this election will not be about the issues but about "character" and "story". Palin's purpose is to serve as a distraction for the Dems, the press and the voters. As long as people are looking her way, they are ignoring the issues.  (To some extent it certainly is working, her name is everywhere).  The speech was emotion and cheerleading, lots of talk about how they were going to change things and show those political elitist that they are for the people.  McCain has been in congress for something like 3 decades, HE is going to show them now?  What?  And then they have the nerve to talk about not wanting to saddle tax payers with un-necessary new debt, two nights ago it was no bailouts?  Where was McCain, Hillary, or Obama back on the Fanny/Freddy bailout bill that promised 800 billion in treasuries barely a month ago.  All of them, not present to vote.  More of the same is right. 

McCains speech was pretty powerful. When he admitted failure in that his job was to change government and instead government had changed him. If he truely realizes that and is willing to do differently that is a major step. Hopefully Palin's record will provide inspiration in that direction. If all I hear is to be believed we could be on to something. The situation seemed pretty hopeless like the machine couldn't reverse direction or be altered in any way. Providing hope that it can is either the greatest sales pitch of our time or if it can become reality the greatest political feat of all time. I don't know about anyone else but I need something like that to believe in. Reagon worked his magic in California but couldn't pull it off in Washington. Palin pulled it off in Alaska, selling the executive airplane on e-bay had to be quite a coup.
The established power in Washington is quite a different matter to overcome. But I for one need some hope for a healthy change. The democrats talk change but not healthy change. So I guess I will flip flop back to my Republican way of thinking if I have to choose one of those two parties.

As I stated back when all the other Republican candidates bowed out, I saw McCain as being vastly preferable to Obama, not perfect but preferable. He talked a good speech IMO. He will have my vote.

The first step in recovery is admitting mistakes IMO. So that alone gives me some hope.

I agree it was a very powerful speech.  I watched the football game tonight, the was surprised to see live coverage start for the convention and then his speech.  Watched all of it, I was very moved.  I realize it's just words from a politician and I should pay more attention to what they do and not what they say.. but that speech was good.  My heart swelled with pride at some of his story, and I certainly felt like cheering him on at the end of it.   I know better than to swallow a speech like that, it was just so powerful to see someone explain loving this country in a way that is real to me. 

While I still have some big doubts; and not just about intent to change but about how feasible a change actually is; he is firmly in the better than Obama camp for me tonight. 

I agree. I think we have been exposed to so many smoke and mirror tactics that if a genuine person really speaks from the heart I wouldn't recognize or trust it without some actions to back it up. Palin seems to have a track record that includes some of those actions.The words flow too easily in an effort to make the sale. But if there is some admission of wrongdoing that may be a beginning. Along with a willingness to break with the party if necessary. That may have been the biggest selling point right there. Announcing that in a national party convention is quite a step. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I don't believe them.. their lips are moving.

Well, we're back to marketing - I've posted this before, but worth watching if you haven't already... 
The Century of Self by Bernaise - the father of modern marketing
http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=140

Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 05, 2008, 09:51:55 AM
I don't believe them.. their lips are moving.

My initial reaction to most politicians. It isn't like we haven't seen smoke and mirrors from McCain before. We have for all of his patriotism. Party pressure, Good old boy pressure in Washington. It all sounds good, much better than the Democrats alternative even if it is only partially effective. Promising and delivering are two different things. Sarah would be a better bet. But as VP there isn't much she can do except lend credibility by association. It's not an easy call. I didn't watch the entire flick Sassy but there is definitely some sales phsychology in play here. Hope is the loss leader, on both sides. Everyone knows Washington is broken. That is why the line grows fuzzy. These conventions are quite a display. I watched most of both. I believe the answer has been touched on but can it or will it be implemented successfully.

I have some hope once again, with Sarah Palin, in spite of the negative press & skeletons in the closet (who doesn't have a few?)  One thing that worries me is she agrees with the party line of the neo-cons...  now we're faced with Georgia & Russia...  we are a roaring lion with no teeth, but Bush/Cheney et al continue to roar their threats but everyone else knows all we can do is gum them to death...  we've bankrupted ourselves with war, weather manipulation & deceptive banking/investment processes - it didn't all start with Bush, a lot of the stuff started during Billy boy's reign...  but the fact is, we can't continue the status quo because there isn't one anymore... 

I watched McCain last night and couldn't help but notice his promises where the same ones that Bush used when he ran in 2000 and that papa Bush used back when he ran. No new taxes, strong defense, bla, bla, bla. Same old lies different guy.

That's what I'm afraid of...  didn't watch any of the conventions but have read enough about them & also rememger what has been promised in the past...  it's really sad....

He said something like he will try not to raise taxes.
I am going to go look it up.

FOund it, but I see in the next paragraph what you are saying.

QuoteI will keep taxes low and cut them where I can. My opponent will raise them. I will open new markets to our goods and services. My opponent will close them. I will cut government spending. He will increase it.

My tax cuts will create jobs. His tax increases will eliminate them. My health care plan will make it easier for more Americans to find and keep good health care insurance. His plan will force small businesses to cut jobs, reduce wages, and force families into a government-run health care system where a bureaucrat stands between you and your doctor.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94302894

It all sounds pretty idyllic. Problem is like Glenn said his lips were moving when he said it. Smoke and mirrors.

It seems that I have 4 choices: 1-Obama,2-McCain, 3-third party or 4-not to vote at all....

4 - Not an option, my voice will be heard even if I have to pick the lesser of 2 evils.

3 - See 4

2 - At least I have a few things in common. I don't like the thought of losing a war. I have somewhat conservative values. I hate working and giving my earnings to Uncle Sam. I believe in personal responsibility.

1 - I have nothing in common with Obama. Just checked again... still nope.

I voted for Sarah once and was not disappointed.

In reality there is not a war to lose.  It is a concept for unending war and war profiteering by big business and big oil.  There is no winning or losing because there is no goal.  Just unending destruction and replacement of war machines and massive profits for the oil companies from rising oil prices. 

They don't even have to increase production to increase profits.  The transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the elite.  The transfer of middle class and poor children's lives to death.  The transfer of innocent blood of our children and foreigners to the bar tab of the elite.  I hope they don't forget to pay.

You're right.. there is no war to lose because it has been long over.  The war officially ended when we captured Saddam and removed his authority.

What we have now is more of a police action.  You can not wage war against guerrillas nor terrorists.  But by leaving abruptly (before they can police themselves) we lose any benefit that was gained by the war.

It is sort of like helping a neighbor pull weeds who either doesn't know how or is too overwhelmed by the size of the task.  If we leave before it is bite sized for him, those weeds will multiply back to where they were. 

This may be all due to big oil (oil prices dropping two months before the election?  What a coincidence!)... but I would rather have big oil engaging us in a war across the globe rather than allowing it to happen here. 

There is not anyone in our armed forces who did not volunteer, and I am grateful for every one of them.

(BTW... if this coming election is "prearranged" and controlled by big oil and big business, then that means that the Republicans have to win since oil prices are dropping.  Why would they allow a loss of profits if dems are going to win anyway?  )

Oh yes, I remember, Mission  Accomplished.  d*

There is very little difference in the way  things are run between the two parties and I wouldn't look for a lot of changes even if Osama were to get it. 

You are right - we can't leave the country we have destroyed until they can manage their own rubble.

What would be wrong with keeping our military here and instead of blowing up billions of dollars a day that we don't even have to spend, saving, building, stockpiling the WMD's we have and doing like Russia is doing recently --- only attack and fight when our interests are attacked?  Make our military invincible here and ready to rumble, rather than taxing it to the point that now even the misfits are being encouraged to join the effort?

The answer to that is that the oil company and big business profits would dwindle.  You can't as easily rip off the taxpayers money unless there is mass confusion and deals working for business at so many angles the public can't keep track.  It doesn't really matter because they are pretty well powerless to do anything about it anyway.  Fascism has a firm grip on the country.

(https://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/jgilhousen/mission-accomplished.jpg)

PS: It's great when we end up a some sort of semi-agreement, Frank.  I enjoy conversing with you.  :)

Well.....Good speech but it's still the same face. But something is different this time. The babe!

I had planned on voting for the better of the worst but for the first time in a very, very long time, I'm getting excited about a presidential election.

Sarah is new, honest as far as I can tell and has EXPERIENCE with corrupt legislators.

I'll vote for her and mean it. I'll vote for MCcain and hope he dies shortly after taking office.

Peter, you crack me up.  I am voting for Palin too.

Glenn, I agree.... that mission accomplished thing was a lot of BS.  I have a really harsh opinion of how wars should be waged, and journalism and PR does not fit into my model.

There have been a lot of positive changes for Iraq; it is not all rubble

As Mayor, 'Hard-Core Fiscal Conservative' Sarah Palin Left Wasilla $20 Million In Debt»

palinquarter4.jpgThe campaign of Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) is presenting his running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK), as a reformer, fiscal conservative, and "tough minded budget cutter." Other conservatives have latched onto this image - Phyllis Schlafly calls Palin "the total package" with "fiscal conservative credentials."

Palin embraces the title, labeling herself a "hard-core fiscal conservative," whose "agenda was to stop wasteful spending.

However, as mayor of Wasilla, AK, Palin "was not always the fiscal watchdog she has since boasted of being."

During her term in office, Palin cut property taxes and other small taxes on business. But as the Anchorage Daily News points out, "She wasn't doing this by shrinking government." During her tenure, the budget of Wasilla (population 5,469 in 2000) "apart from capital projects and debt, rose from $3.9 million in fiscal 1996 to $5.8 million."

Palin also successfully pushed through a sales tax increase in Wasilla, which went to fund a $15 million sports complex. However, a land dispute over the sight of the complex led to "years of legal wrangling" and cost Wasilla almost $1.7 million, "a lot more than the roughly $125,000 the city would have paid in 1998 if it had closed a deal to buy the property outright." Wasilla is still facing budget shortfalls from the case today.

When Palin left office in 2002, Wasilla had "racked up nearly $20 million in long-term debt," or roughly $3,000 of debt per resident.

But Palin's approach actually brings her in line with McCain, whose own "massive tax cuts" "would recklessly exacerbate the fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush Administration" and cause the largest deficit in 25 years.



http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/03/wasilla-in-debt/

Is anyone really suprised by any of this? Politicos know how to spend money. It's what they do best.

Ah, here comes the mud. We knew there had to be some. Or else why would we have or need Google. If something sounds too good to be true it usually is. Famous words of Samuel Clemens (AKA Mark Twain) if I am not mistaken. Well we had some hope for about 5 minutes. Skeptical hope at best.

I would like to see a line by line sheet of all the "debt" that she left. Is this debt due to bonds voted on by the members of her community? It is hard to get anything done with a very small tax base. 2.5% with a CAP of $12.50. The most sales tax you will pay on anything is $12.50. Try to build anything with that tax base.....

Wasilla is one of the fastest growing areas in the state. I'm talking 'boom town".

The old infrastructure could in no way handle it. How fast you wonder.... New Target, Chili's, Home Depot, Lowes, Hospital, schools everywhere, etc.... This is (was) a small town just a couple years ago.

Wasilla is a bedroom town for Anchorage. Many people bought homes out there and commute to Anchorage for work.

Wasilla and Palmer are commercial centers for the Mat-Su Borough. Estimated population 60K people spread over 25,000 square miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matanuska-Susitna_Borough,_Alaska

The rumor mud i heard was that she initially was for the bridge to nowhere.  I have not googled around for details yet.

-f-

I heard the same one Frank. 

Lonelytree, it does give me some hope that you & most Alaskans support her  if she'd been a big failure or done a lot of bad stuff, I don't think she'd have a 92% approval rating...  but I still am very leery of McCain & co & just wonder what they're all up to... 

Here's what I see...

(http://www.texemarrs.com/images/leiberman_mccain_wailing_wall.jpg)

(http://www.236.com/images/photo2/4413/original/original.jpg)

(http://timesonline.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/19/obama_and_israel.jpg)

(My dog would love to chew the ears off of that head.)  [crz]

Sarah Palin has an  Israel star on her office window and has already met with Aipac.

Are there no politicians who feel it is important to be loyal to the US?

If they are God's people why do they need our support at all costs. 

What happened to faith in God to provide rather than in our military , sons, daughters, martyrs for Israel at the behest of our politicians.

Why should they expect our children to pay for their ticket through the pearly gates. 

Here is an article regarding the Bridge:
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?&articleid=1116208&format=&page=2&listingType=2008pres#articleFull

Personally, I am for earmarks. Everyone says that are bad these days, but many towns and cities have benefitted from them in the past. I am of course against wasteful, corrupt, and unbeneficial projects. If I am the mayor of a small town that really needs a project to suceed and I don't have the tax base, capital etc to do it, why now ask for an earmark? Dedicated funds to a project seems more responsible to me. I would believe that ONLY a percentage of projects should be for non-essential projects.

Bridges to nowhere..... AK Senator Don Young screwed this up by being a stubborn, brat instead of actually communicating like an adult. When asked about the projects, he should have told the media to wait for a day to get ALL the benefits together. Instead of throwing a fit in public and looking the fool that he is.

2 Bridges
Gravina - Wouldn't it be nice to be able to drive to the airport instead of take a ferry? Maybe have a little room to grow. While expensive, look at the history of areas that ran out of room to grow. I personally was not for this project. Lots of money and not a huge population that would benefit. That does not mean that it does not bear looking at it.

Knik Arm - Anchorage is landlocked between Cook Inlet, Military bases, and the Chugach State Park. We are running out of land quickly. The Knik bridge would open up a large area of land for growth AND create a transportation corridor for Houston, Big Lake, Willow and the Knik Arm. It would also create a second evacuation route in case of an emergency. Anchorage has one road north and one road south. The road north is heavily traveled daily. Bumper to bumper for 3-5 hours a day.

Look at the areas of the US that have received monies to build bridges and grow. Growth = taxes. Esentially, projects like this can pay for themselves.

P.S. If the arcticle says Andrew Halcro or Hollis French ..... be wary, be very wary.

This really points out how lame the two party system is. When two new faces came on the scene, Joe Biden and Sarah Palin the entire election scenario took on new meaning. I think most people would rather have a larger menu to choose from. Primaries be damned they are still only about the same two parties. And even within those parties there are sub-parties. Liberal, ultra liberal, conservative, ultra conservative, religous right. Whatever. There are rifts within the organizations themselves, not a united front. McCain is making concessions to maintain party favor right now so he may be talking out of both sides of his mouth again. What kind of deals with the devil do these people have to make to please their party heirarchy. Which of Sarah Palins principles will she have to sacrifice to be on the national scene. Will she have to join the good old boy network that she has fought to be a player. I suppose. And no matter how high up the food chain they end up they can only do so much. 

I'm thinking I'm going to vote Obama. 

McCaine got up there on Wednesday and announced the republican platform of no bailouts WHILE the bailout planning was underway by the existing republican administration.  He has not spoken out against it, nor will he.  He was not present to vote against against giving Paulson the authority to put the treasury in the hole 5 trillion and has not spoken out against it yet either. 

Yes Obama will be bad, and he didnt vote against that bill either.  However he didnt make a speech about fighting for the USA and stopping bailouts this week either.  Truly, I believe Obama to be the worse of two evils.  He is the absolutely worst choice.  My hope is that he will openly make people angry enough to wake up and do something about this.  We had some friends over this weekend, friends of my wife.  They complained about the economy and jobs and gas and food and insurance.  I asked them if they could name the two senators from Texas.  Just got some dumb stares back.  I told them they had no right to complain ... they got exactly the government they deserved.  It didnt go over well.   I guess I have been on edge lately. 

Quote from: muldoon on September 07, 2008, 07:01:07 PM
I'm thinking I'm going to vote Obama. 

McCaine got up there on Wednesday and announced the republican platform of no bailouts WHILE the bailout planning was underway by the existing republican administration.  He has not spoken out against it, nor will he.  He was not present to vote against against giving Paulson the authority to put the treasury in the hole 5 trillion and has not spoken out against it yet either. 

Yes Obama will be bad, and he didnt vote against that bill either.  However he didnt make a speech about fighting for the USA and stopping bailouts this week either.  Truly, I believe Obama to be the worse of two evils.  He is the absolutely worst choice.  My hope is that he will openly make people angry enough to wake up and do something about this.  We had some friends over this weekend, friends of my wife.  They complained about the economy and jobs and gas and food and insurance.  I asked them if they could name the two senators from Texas.  Just got some dumb stares back.  I told them they had no right to complain ... they got exactly the government they deserved.  It didnt go over well.   I guess I have been on edge lately. 

I heard McCain addressing it today, I heard blah blah blah, then that the bailout should not benefit the board of directors, they need to be replaced. It should help the home owner and the small banks holding the federally insured loans....then blah blah blah. So he has addressed it, but to be honest I was half listening...It was either early this morning or last night.

Quote from: StinkerBell on September 07, 2008, 07:37:37 PM

I heard McCain addressing it today, I heard blah blah blah, then that the bailout should not benefit the board of directors, they need to be replaced. It should help the home owner and the small banks holding the federally insured loans ....then blah blah blah. So he has addressed it, but to be honest I was half listening...It was either early this morning or last night.

Hold on.  I have to comment on somthing you said.  "small banks holding the federally insured loans ."

This is printed on every Fanny May bond.  When you read it do you understand it as "Federally insured"?  Federally insured debt is called Treasuries.  It trades at a low yield because it is low risk.  GSE or Agency paper trades at a much higher yield because it has risk.  "Investors" and I use the term lightly, took risk to gain a higher return on their investment.  These were not federally insured and they damn well knew it. 
(http://www.loopy.org/pictures/galleries/.pig-tacos/_thumbs/700x500-http---www.loopy.org-Fannie.png)

Also, it does nothing to help homeowners, and does nothing to help regional banks.  Regional banks will get a huge black eye from the loss of dividends on the preferred.  Homeowners problems are related to falling valuations and job loss and rising mortgage costs and tighening lending standards.  This exacerbates every one of those problems.  You cant refi an underwater loan.  Hell Fanny and Freddie do not allow late payments on any new mortgages as of two months ago, so any non-performing loan would be ineligible to be refinanced to a Fannie or Freddie loan.  This is brand new regulation, likely written in anticipation of this bailout.  This does not help average people in any way!

Unless McCain is an idiot he knows this.  Even if he was an idiot, he still should know this, he has advisors. 

{edited to change the image of the bond to fit screen}

From this story comments by both candidates or in McCains case an advisor I guess. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080908/bs_nm/fannie_freddie_dc_15
I haven't really been watching much TV this weekend. Has either candidate addressed the issue?

The proposals outlined on Sunday, less than two months away from the U.S. election, leave the ultimate fate of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the hands of the next president.

Democratic presidential contender Sen. Barack Obama said it will be necessary to clarify whether they are truly public companies, subject to market discipline, or special entities that investors feel they can put money in risk-free.

A senior adviser to Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain described them as examples of "crony capitalism" and said McCain believes they should eventually be privatized.

I note you didn't comment on my blah blah blah..... heh

I live with a woman who goes blah blah blah incessantly so I have learned to screen it out.

Quote from: muldoon on September 07, 2008, 07:01:07 PM
I'm thinking I'm going to vote Obama. 

McCaine got up there on Wednesday and announced the republican platform of no bailouts WHILE the bailout planning was underway by the existing republican administration.  He has not spoken out against it, nor will he.  He was not present to vote against against giving Paulson the authority to put the treasury in the hole 5 trillion and has not spoken out against it yet either. 

Yes Obama will be bad, and he didnt vote against that bill either.  However he didnt make a speech about fighting for the USA and stopping bailouts this week either.  Truly, I believe Obama to be the worse of two evils.  He is the absolutely worst choice.  My hope is that he will openly make people angry enough to wake up and do something about this.  We had some friends over this weekend, friends of my wife.  They complained about the economy and jobs and gas and food and insurance.  I asked them if they could name the two senators from Texas.  Just got some dumb stares back.  I told them they had no right to complain ... they got exactly the government they deserved.  It didnt go over well.   I guess I have been on edge lately. 

I can't bring myself to vote for Obama. The message he is sending is that if a person has a little motivation and incentive he will be penalized with higher taxes. The penalty will be distributed to some couch poatoes who are getting welfare, food stamps and enemployment. The reward is for doing nothing. So the best thing a person can do under the Obama plan is to be a deadbeat and collect from the doers.

That is why I can't vote for McCain.  McCain platform on health care is to tax employees that get it provided by their employer.  That is most of the county.  He will give a tax break to people that buy there own insurance.  This is bought and paid for by the major insurance companies.  By having collective bargaining companies can get the best prices for their employees for health insurance.  By everyone going out and buying their own, the insurance companies can select out the people they don't want to cover and jack the rates for everyone.  McCain has promised to raise taxes on almost every American.  Then give a rebate back at the end of the year if you went out and bought your own health care plan.  We all know how great the government is in giving back money.
Taxing the employer sponsored health care that most Americans receive will be one of the largest tax increases on the middle class in American history.  If the self employed buy their health insurance through the company that they manage, the don't pay taxes on the insurance anyway.  There is no tax break to give them. 
If people really want to focus on their taxes. Focus on the federal budget.  Over 90% of the budget is on four items. #1 defense.  Homeland Security, DOD, Veterans Affairs and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan make up over 40% of the federal budget. #2 Social Security is around 20% of the federal budget #3 Medicare/Medicaid is around 19% #4 Interest on the Debt 9%. 
Personally I am not going to focus on the 3-4 pennies out of every dollar I pay the government in to people on welfare (probably about half that actually need it) than the 90% that goes to war, the sick and the elderly, and deficit spending.

Quote from: desdawg on September 08, 2008, 06:11:43 AM
I live with a woman who goes blah blah blah incessantly so I have learned to screen it out.

[rofl2]  There you go, Stink... and they think we don't hear.... rofl

Quote from: Squirl on September 08, 2008, 09:29:40 AM
That is why I can't vote for McCain.  McCain platform on health care is to tax employees that get it provided by their employer.  That is most of the county.  He will give a tax break to people that buy there own insurance.  This is bought and paid for by the major insurance companies.  By having collective bargaining companies can get the best prices for their employees for health insurance.  By everyone going out and buying their own, the insurance companies can select out the people they don't want to cover and jack the rates for everyone.  McCain has promised to raise taxes on almost every American.  Then give a rebate back at the end of the year if you went out and bought your own health care plan.  We all know how great the government is in giving back money.
Taxing the employer sponsored health care that most Americans receive will be one of the largest tax increases on the middle class in American history.  If the self employed buy their health insurance through the company that they manage, the don't pay taxes on the insurance anyway.  There is no tax break to give them. 
If people really want to focus on their taxes. Focus on the federal budget.  Over 90% of the budget is on four items. #1 defense.  Homeland Security, DOD, Veterans Affairs and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan make up over 40% of the federal budget. #2 Social Security is around 20% of the federal budget #3 Medicare/Medicaid is around 19% #4 Interest on the Debt 9%. 
Personally I am not going to focus on the 3-4 pennies out of every dollar I pay the government in to people on welfare (probably about half that actually need it) than the 90% that goes to war, the sick and the elderly, and deficit spending.

So if Obama gets elected my best strategy is to dump what I have worked for for the last 20 years, get what I can for it, find myself a nice section 8 rental, park my arse on the couch, apply for welfare, start eating food stamps and maybe get a little short term job so I can draw unemployment and do what I can to get that 3-4 cents you are talking about jacked up to 25-30 cents on the dollar. All the motivations will be in place and I better hurry so I don't get caught in the stampede. I have lived most of my life with no health insurance. I am not recommending that but it has worked out OK for me. I was a patient in a hospital on Feb 3, 1948 and I must not have liked it cause I never went back.
Already it is abused as many people run for the doc with every sniffle. Imagine when it becomes a function of government. I don't like Socialism, I like independence. I don't want your problems to be my problems nor do I want mine to be yours.

Nothing is stopping you from doing that now.  Nothing would have stopped you from dumping what you have worked for at anytime in the past 20 years and going on welfare.  My point is that taxes are high and going higher to pay for things that aren't welfare.

Just make sure when you liquidate your assets you bury it in the backyard or under the bed. Welfare will make you ever so often do to the bank and have a bank employee fill out a form with your balance and sometimes the average balance you keep (before working in an ER for a decade I worked as a Bank Teller for a decade). Depending on the state, you can not have a car that is less then 5 years old. SO make sure you place that in a family members name.

Why am I telling you this? I have never done this myself but I have watched many others do it. I have seen people pull out all but 5.00 from their accounts one day and the next day have a bank officer fill out a form. I have  seen people on welfare drive up in a new car, wearing a lot of gold necklaces, recently had their nails manicured pick up their welfare check. What i find sometimes odd is there is no children with them.

I personally worked with a gal in the ER. She was a HUC like me. She had 5 kids, 4 different dad's and collected welfare and worked. We made the same amount of money and she was able to afford to go on many vacations through out the year (we worked a week on week off schedule). I could not help ask her how she could afford it? She would answer that she had to spend it before the end of the month or she would lose her welfare. She would spend her evenings searching the state welfare site to see what other benefits she was ENTITLED to. I was able to afford to go camping with my kids maybe twice a year. She went to Mexico and to Puerto Rico. I think what made me become so bitter is when her oldest child (17) had a child. She then turned around and told the state she would be the day care provider for her grandchild and was able to charge the state and collect money for day care services.

Quote from: StinkerBell on September 08, 2008, 12:44:05 PM
Just make sure when you liquidate your assets you bury it in the backyard or under the bed. Welfare will make you ever so often do to the bank and have a bank employee fill out a form with your balance and sometimes the average balance you keep (before working in an ER for a decade I worked as a Bank Teller for a decade). Depending on the state, you can not have a car that is less then 5 years old. SO make sure you place that in a family members name.

Why am I telling you this? I have never done this myself but I have watched many others do it. I have seen people pull out all but 5.00 from their accounts one day and the next day have a bank officer fill out a form. I have  seen people on welfare drive up in a new car, wearing a lot of gold necklaces, recently had their nails manicured pick up their welfare check. What i find sometimes odd is there is no children with them.

I personally worked with a gal in the ER. She was a HUC like me. She had 5 kids, 4 different dad's and collected welfare and worked. We made the same amount of money and she was able to afford to go on many vacations through out the year (we worked a week on week off schedule). I could not help ask her how she could afford it? She would answer that she had to spend it before the end of the month or she would lose her welfare. She would spend her evenings searching the state welfare site to see what other benefits she was ENTITLED to. I was able to afford to go camping with my kids maybe twice a year. She went to Mexico and to Puerto Rico. I think what made me become so bitter is when her oldest child (17) had a child. She then turned around and told the state she would be the day care provider for her grandchild and was able to charge the state and collect money for day care services.

It is a shame, isn't it?  As I've said before, while I did receive welfare for 3 yrs when I went back to school to get my nursing & bachelors degree, I worked parttime & was taking care of my young children & going to school full time - took advantage of student loans & grants, didn't get food stamps, though; wasn't getting any child support - this was the only way I could go back to school at the time & since then have paid my share of taxes as well as having worked all my life & paying taxes before then...  I think, if you have to use those types of services, it should be for a short time, as a bridge to get you on your feet & productive in society...   not a lifetime on the dole...  sounds like that person you worked with made a career of milking the system... 

Hey Stink, I worked in a bank for 10 yrs too!  Did teller work for about a year during that time... 

Sometimes I think we are twins separated at birth......heh


Probably why I feel comfortable and entitled to [slap] glenn around.

I like it, Stink....hurt me. [crz]

Quote from: StinkerBell on September 08, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Sometimes I think we are twins separated at birth......heh


Probably why I feel comfortable and entitled to [slap] glenn around.

It's good for him!   heh

Quote from: Squirl on September 08, 2008, 11:14:53 AM
Nothing is stopping you from doing that now.  Nothing would have stopped you from dumping what you have worked for at anytime in the past 20 years and going on welfare.  My point is that taxes are high and going higher to pay for things that aren't welfare.

Yeah there is one thing that stops me from doing that. It's called INTEGRITY. Obama would destroy ambition and drive with his Freebies for deadbeat philosophy. His policy would encourage those who abuse the system. They would say things like it's only 3-4 cents on the dollar so what is the big deal. But we can grow that later. Look at what you are spending over here on this other stuff. At some point someone has to stand on principle.

Well Desdawg, I seriously disagree with your principles. I believe we should focus on the rich who sit around and do nothing and get kickbacks in insider contracts and defense contracting waste, fraud, and abuse more than we should focus on welfare for the poor.  As you can see by some of the posts, like Sassy, it has helped people in need.  Stories like that make me proud to pay in and help.  The amount of corporate welfare for the rich outrages me so much more than welfare for the poor. And the point of my post is it takes more from our taxes and society and the working class.  I can read the federal budget and have.  I think any view that an in an individual candidate could ruin the hard working ambition of this county is extreme.  You answered my point perfectly.  Integrity stopped you from quitting everything.  And there will always be a segment of society that will try and game and abuse the system.  They are called criminals.  Are you telling me that under the Bush, Clinton, Bush administrations you didn't quit working even though there were high taxes and this travisty of welfare, but you are going to now?  No.  Neither will the rest of the country.  It is not in our work ethic.

If it wasn't for "the rich" as you call them, there would be fewer companies out there providing jobs. Not everyone you might class as rich sits around doing nothing or getting kickbacks. Yes, kickbacks, insider info deals, waste by government should all be dealt with harshly. But so should we deal harshly with welfare bums.

Not everyone who accepts a government handout is a bum. Many use the available agencies and funds as a temporary stop gap. But there are many who take advantage of the system. We have run into some of those in various business dealings. An example that comes to mind is a person we know who wouldn't accept a job opportunity they were perfectly suited for because it would be "on the books" and would reduce the amount of their government disability check. They weren't an illegal alien, they were a born and raised in America second generation welfare bum.  I could go on.

The more handouts are made available from various government agencies, the more some people will take advantage of them, abuse them. People need to work for what they receive otherwise it holds no value.

That's my view, YMMV.

political class warfare. 

One side of the political structure says look at all those rich people getting government money and making you work hard and get screwed.  Damn them.  The other side says look at all those poor people getting handouts and making you work hard and get the shaft, damn them.

People just go along thinking its the other sides fault that they are unhappy in life.  The haves and have-nots battle is age old.  It's very easy to blame someone else for your problems.  And we all have problems and life drama, rich or poor.  The part that infuriates me is how every just goes along with it thinking that their side is going to one day "win" and stick it to the other side. 

Poor people have been voting democratic for 50 years, they're still poor.

I read somewhere once that if you did redistribute all the wealth equally, after a period of time you would once again have people who bacame richer and people who became poorer.

It's the age old fight between the classes that has always gone on - & you are right MtnDon, you even the playing field & the resourceful, creative, go-getters will get ahead while the "take care of me mentality" people will fall behind.  There are times when a person needs help & the safety nets are needed, but because so many in society rely on gov't to take care of them the close-knit neighbor/community/church support is going by the wayside, people become strangers & therefore enemies... 

Yep, somewhat akin to lottery winners, the really big ones. All too often five years later they have no more money than they started with. Some end up worse off.

Throwing money at a problem, looking for that to be the solution is a waste of time and money all too often.

You can never redistribute the wealth to achieve equality. It can not be done. People are individuals and how the place their morals and priorities will defer. Some people are savers, they will go without certain items, whereas others will not live without their daily Starbucks (I say this as a former Starbucks addict heh). How do we decided what basics needs are? I think basic needs are food, shelter, clothing. Others define basic needs as, food, shelter,clothing, cable, internet, automobile, cell phone.....

The Constitution promises us the right to pursue happiness and equality under the law. I am not sure when We The People started thinking that we are guarantee of happiness and  entitled to a living style of equality.


I hope my thoughts make sense...I tend to ramble at times.

That key word "pursue" is frequently skipped over. There's no guarantee on results.

I am happy to see some other people joining in this discussion. I refuse to enable bad behaviour unless it's forced upon me. So I will oppose Obama. I heard there were 13% undecided in a recent poll. Gee I can't understand that. Growing up in Montana and living 14 years in Colorado and now over 23 in Arizona I relate much better to Westerners than I do to those from the East. I think we have a different value system in place than citified folks. I don't disagree with everything squirl is saying I just despise the idea of giving handouts to able bodied people.  [toilet]
I have a buddy in Texas who used to say you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. But you can damn sure make him wish he would have.
Anyway with that I am done with it. [frus]

Very interesting posts.  To add another perspective (fuel to the fire?  ::)), here is a something from a local columnist (I'm on the Left coast):


Annette John-Hall: Pit bull of a hockey mom leading war on diversity

By Annette John-Hall

Inquirer Columnist

No matter how much John McCain tried to reclaim his party's middle ground while accepting the Republican nomination for president last night, I still can't shake the feeling that we have another war on our hands.

Because both McCain and V.P. running mate Sarah Palin - the high-sticking hockey mom and self-possessed pit bull who's all too willing to smudge her lipstick, as long as it leaves a mark on Barack Obama's jugular - told us in no uncertain terms that they're about to wage battle.

And, no, it isn't going to be over health care, the economy or Iraq, issues that voters say matter most.

This is a culture war over which Americans are the most most American.

And, at least the way the Republicans have framed the argument, small-town, blue-collar citizens have cornered the market on hard work, patriotism and virtue.

If you live in the city or have a college degree, forget it. You're not one of us.

At least that's what Palin aptly conveyed with a smirk and a smile in her speech Wednesday night.

Riding a spate of mean-spirited Rudy Giuliani punch lines, Palin took her own nasty swipe at community organizing, thereby dissing the millions of citizens who benefited from it.

Conveniently forgetting about the work done by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. - the world's greatest community organizer. Not to mention dismissing her own time spent as a PTA mom, because, after all, isn't room mothering a most personal form of community building?

Just maybe Palin's stabbing ignorance was calculated because the folks who live off King's legacy don't make up the Republican base.

"We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty, sincerity, and dignity," Palin said in a speech watched by 37.2 million viewers. "I grew up with those people. . . . They are the ones who grow our food, run our factories, and fight our wars.

"They love their country, in good times and bad, and they're always proud of America."


Color missing

Yet it was hard not to notice the glaring lack of diversity being "celebrated" by proud Americans on the convention floor Wednesday night. Compared with the Democrats, the Republicans made for a stunningly homogeneous visual.

They seemingly ignored the fact that America is rapidly moving to a majority of ethnic minorities. African Americans made up only 36 of the 2,380 GOP delegates, the lowest number since conventions began tracking such numbers 40 years ago.

While the Republicans are heralding the choice of a female vice presidential candidate as historic, I guess racial diversity will have to wait its turn.

And speaking of Track, isn't it interesting how the Palins' family dynamic has added a surreal flip of the script of talking points for the religious right?

Poor Bristol Palin. The oldest Palin daughter, unwed and pregnant at 17, has unwillingly become the Republicans' new poster girl for abstinence - I mean, family values - standing with her proud-to-be-a-redneck boyfriend, who reportedly noted on his MySpace page that he doesn't want kids.

Now he's betrothed. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shotgun at that wedding.

Ironic, isn't it, that it wasn't long ago that conservative yakkers gleefully described Michelle Obama - who has made it clear that her children will always be her No. 1 priority - as a "baby mama."

I guess such a foul double standard goes hand in hand with unreasonably high bars of expectation that the Obamas have been forced to jump - especially when race is applied.

It reminds me of comedian D.L. Hughley's biting take on teen pregnancy:

"When white girls get pregnant, they get a movie. When black girls get pregnant, they get a visit from a social worker and a box of condoms."

(continued)

(cont.)



Reality show

While Palin stars in a northern-exposure reality show as a moose-hunting, basketball playing, state-governing former beauty queen in three-inch heels and cool eyewear, she doesn't necessarily relate to most working moms' basic experience.

The woman that McCain keeps saying over and over should be a glowing example for all women to emulate is not a reflection of my life.

It's downright insulting to me - and many other women.

Truth is, Superwoman may live in comic books, but not on Earth. Not even in the great state of Alaska.

"I'm a teacher with two kids and a husband and I struggle every day. None of it gets the attention it deserves," says Michelle Daniszewski, 35, who is married and lives on the Main Line. "Maybe [Palin] is this great woman who can manage, but I don't know how."

Not only that, Daniszewski believes that a dedicated mother wouldn't exploit a pregnant daughter and a baby with Down syndrome as pawns for political gain.

"I do think of her less as a mom because she put her [children] in a horrible situation," she said.

But other working women such as Karen Green, 38, of Ardmore, a mother of a 4-year-old, saw Palin as "refreshing" and "charismatic."

"Even though I was shocked at the choice, I thought she did a great job," Green says.

Green, a registered Republican, represents the coveted undecided female voter that Republicans hope Palin can hand over with a small-town smile.

But she is not your typical Republican voter. Green admits she would love to see a McCain-Joe Biden ticket. And her concern over the state of health care has the pharmaceutical rep considering an Obama vote.

One of many issues Palin failed to address Wednesday night.

Which didn't go unnoticed by Green. "I need more detail and context from all of them," she said, adding: "I probably won't know what I'll do until I go into the voting booth in November."

But one thing is certain. Her vote won't be based on a gun-toting woman emerging as the darling of her party's ticket.



****Hope that wasn't too long****

Community Organizing ??

Who's community? Haven't seen the "O" in my neighborhood.

Obama is a product of the Chicago democratic machine.

I know where his interests lie.

And I don't agree with hardly any of his politics.

I'm sick and tired of watching my taxes go to bottom feeders that pay none.

Hi Sparks,

Are there folks that organize fund raisers (a car wash, lemonade stands, 5k walk/runs, bake sales ) for your local high school team jerseys?  Collect money to help repair the roof at the old VFW hall?  Ever been to a barn raising ?!?  I would consider any organizing that helps to bring together or support a community is 'community organizing.'  Even if they simply collect money from the local business.  Granted, there are various levels of course.  I would venture to say that most community activities that involve a 'community' (more that one person) is lead by a 'community organizer.'  It serves to strengthen, bond, and protect a community.

I may be at risk of being too simplistic, especially when a mind is made up.  However, if community organizers did not step up and lead - no matter how small or large the community or issue - our country would be in a sadder state than it currently finds itself.  Though maybe not glamorous, and generally larger undertakings in urban vs rural areas, community organizing is important.

When you state "And I don't agree with hardly any of his politics."  it begs the question - what Obama policies are agreeable?  These are complicated times with complicated issues.  Where do the parties (not the politicians) agree?

As I sign off a question came to my mind  . . . as a moderator of this forum, could Glen also be called the 'organizer' of this 'community?'  ???

Okay.  Corny I know.  [scared]

Off to bed. 

Stay well all!

Geo, Are you infering car washes, lemo stands, and 5K bake sales make a running platform ?

Organizing Skills? The 'O' was much more than that. But where are his real leadership skills?

This guy voted 131 times "present" while in the Illinois Senate.  WTF is that ?

Since this is the VP thread....well, don't care for for either one.

Just being a grouchy old bas-tard tonight.

ps...the bottom line , my taxes being given away....without my say   ???

Glen is a rabble rouser, and he knows it!!   :)  so was jc  ;D

Quote from: sparks on September 09, 2008, 09:27:02 PM
This guy voted 131 times "present" while in the Illinois Senate.  WTF is that ?

Exactly!!!

Quote from: sparks on September 09, 2008, 09:30:19 PM
Glen is a rabble rouser, and he knows it!!   :)  so was jc  ;D

Thank you Sparks.

If one side of this discussion needs a hand let me know and I'll jump in and give a hand.   I hate them all equally. :)

Good morning folks,

Hi Sparks - Of course not.  I'm just responding to views coming out of the party which seems to dismiss or belittle community service.  Besides, Obama was an organizer - in his twenties I believe?

As for voting 'present', I don't clam to know politics inside and out.  But the cynical side of me thinks it is an example of politics in general.

Yes, this is a VP thread.  But doesn't now seem that the RP has positioned Plain that it now appears to be a Palin vs Obama campaign?  And about personalities and not issues?

This is a Palin rescues the McCain campaign statement, but lets not forget, under that pretty face, she has still lowered herself to be a politician.

Beauty is only skin deep.  Ugly goes clear to the bone.

"Community Organizer" was aimed at Obama and no one else. It was not an insult to the many community organizers out there doing great (and bad, as not all community organizers do positive things) work. It was aimed to downplay his qualifications to be President. I thank the media and spin artists for that one.

Quote"I'm a teacher with two kids and a husband and I struggle every day. None of it gets the attention it deserves," says Michelle Daniszewski, 35, who is married and lives on the Main Line. "Maybe [Palin] is this great woman who can manage, but I don't know how."

Not only that, Daniszewski believes that a dedicated mother wouldn't exploit a pregnant daughter and a baby with Down syndrome as pawns for political gain.

"I do think of her less as a mom because she put her [children] in a horrible situation," she said.

This lady is an overachiever. ::)  My grandmother raised 12 children while managing and dispatching a trucking company. I spent 21 years in the military with women that could fix F-15s, raise 4 kids, deploy to Korea with 12 hours notice, attend college etc.....

If showing your kids what a woman can do in 2008 America is a horrible thing to this woman then she needs to go back to 1920. Just horrible. ::) ::) She also states that she is struggling every day. Maybe she needs to quit her teaching job and be a stay at home mom so her kids aren't in a horrible environment. It sounds like she is over her head. Everyone has their own level in the gene pool.

If anyone 'exploited' the pregnant daughter it was the press. I am sure that the family would prefer to keep it in the laundry bin instead of in the public eye. They knew it would come out. Why not just put it out there instead.

I have seen nothing but support by Sarah toward her new baby. Stating that she understands people with special needs children is to show commonality with like families and not necessarily for political gain. Actually, I find that anyone suggesting that to be a bit far reaching.

I am off for Wasilla tomorrow. I will see how the people up there are reacting to the last 2 weeks news.

Mike

The term community organizer can encompass a wide gamut of things. I still don't know what Obama did as a community organizer.   ???  Could be good, could be bad, could be indifferent?