So in the end, we went with a pole building "shell", and a minimal set of modifications to make it into a habitable two-story house.
***YAY***
The engineer made some "corrections required" on my modification part of the plans (I submitted two sets of plans, the shell, and then the modifications to make it into a one-bedroom open plan house with "attached garage"), and approved it "with corrections".
The edits were:
1) Ground floor Washer/Dryer on slab needs to be elevated (huh?) and vented to the outside (ok, I forgot to add vents)
2) I noted 5/8" drywall between "house" and "garage", but I guess I didn't use the word "Garage/House seperation wall and ceiling".
3) The stairs didn't call out rise/tread specs or say "to 2006 IRC specs"
4) I guess the bathroom window should be called out as "tempered"
5) Forgot to call out bathroom vent/fan
6) Forgot to call out kitchen vent/fan
7) Forgot to note that smoke detectors will be dual power-source
I need to call the approving engineer up to find out why the washer/dryer needs to be elevated. I also need to ask about bathroom window. Obviously I missed something with these. The other stuff was "yeah, I know that, just forgot to call it out".
I was wondering if you had a floorplan sketch? I'm looking at building something with an attached garage, and would be interesting it seeing how somebody else is doing it.
bob
That sounds great, Hog. You are on your way.
I'll get some floorplan sketches posted in the next day or two.
I made an interesting error in my statements though. There's two magic numbers of window area to floor area in Washington. The zone I'm building in has higher insulation requirements then the zone I'm living in. I think I got the numbers mixed up since I stated "<12%" where I needed to state "<10%". 0-10% allows R-21 batt's 10-15% requires "R-19 batt's + R-5 foam". Serves me right for not just quoting the actual percentage :)
Looking forward to seeing it, Hog.
Yah Hog......Looking forward to seeing it too! heh
I have been considering pole style shell and working primarily internal myself and I would really like to see what your thinking as well. Congrats on getting through the redtape.
Whatsa matter Stink - cat got yer tongue? hmm
I've been missing you harassing me lately. [crz]
She's been installing hardwood floors (pre-finished 3/8" engineered hardwood) throughout the house.
I've done about 1000 square feet and my knees and upper thighs hurt. The floor looks pretty.
Good work Nethog:
Those notes on the plans are common (with the exception of the raising of the W/D). The checker writes most of those several times a day, I expect.
If the bathroom window is close to a shower or tub it needs to be tempered or safety glass. If you can get a short window (such as a 5'x2' slider) set high enough in the wall so that someone can't punch it out, you may not need it to be tempered. Ask the plan checker.
That's great, Stink -look at the skills you are developing -- not to mention muscles - Get strong enough and Hog will let you carry wood in for the wood stove in the winter. ::)
I forgot to mention all the lovely little splinters my fingers endured....
Well I guess the good thing about that is, less picking of the nose.... :)
That's good, Stink. Hog won't have to buy you gloves to carry the wood through the snow. Your hands will be able to take it. [crz]
Here's the floor plans (these are modified from what was submitted)
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/77fc138469104695abc51637c23ea8c0)
Ground floor shell
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/94afc8838709412fa6b36922b0bd424b)
Ground floor modifications
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/e7d3ff02c63e4b318a57624e7a264fdc)
Upper floor shell
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/a803d5d35de1424ea60fcbf0291d916f)
Modifications to the upper floor
These were a conversation stopper obviously ;)
I think I know about the raising and venting.. When I installed my new water heater, they made sure it was raised and the overflow needed to be vented to the outside. I was only 2 feet to my back patio so the installer just punched a hole and sent the overflow out and down. That was after verifying that there was a proper slope for run off.
Sorry Hog-- My daughter is doing a family research project so I got tied up a bit. Seems we all did evolve from apes. Peter was right.
If I had those nice poles in there I'd make a fold down table on one of them. I know - not in the right place -- wouldn't fit in Stink's decor.
Looks like you'll have a lot of room! I really like our fold down table. Great that you got your building permit approved. Stink, how are your knees? Bet the floors look really nice!
Eventual plan is to split the space into more rooms.
The challenge was, "how do we do the bare minimum." The entry is required to achieve the seperation between living space and garage space. The bathroom is required for obvious reasons. Even the railing on the upper floor... eventually we'll build a balcony.
I think it's a good plan, Hog.
Fold down table? Nah, I am thinking of hammocks....heh
That's even better ;D
She's always wanting to hang them there dang hammocks around.
We break ground this Monday! (I am sure something will go a tad wrong, so let say Tuesday!)
Don't forget pix, Stink.
How exciting! [cool]
Update:
Stink says they're extremely efficient, never idle.
They've got 3(?) poles remaining to put in place. Foundation inspection should be today. Concrete pour tomorrow. They dug deeper then spec (yay) had a couple of 'blow-outs' (is that the right phrase) which will involve more concrete, but no issues.
That said, Stink panic'ed something about them running over the drinking water hose as she quickly got off the phone.
Stink's going to be back next week so photo's will have to wait until then.
Thanks for the update -- sounds like thing are going pretty well.
Inspector came out, and looks like they're already working on the 2nd floor. I never considered this benefit of a pole building, that construction can get so far before they pour a drop of concrete.
Turned out that they bust the fresh water hookup, and then left without helping stink fix it :/ A neighbor stopped by and helped her out later in the day.
Not very gentlemanly of them. Poor Stinky. I'll bet she got muddy too. hmm
Quote from: glenn kangiser on June 12, 2008, 11:58:56 PM
Not very gentlemanly of them. Poor Stinky. I'll bet she got muddy too. hmm
Yeah, the only black mark is they weren't knights in shining armor :)
...in Stinky's eyes?
...but then you must be her Prince Valiant? hmm :)
Concrete poured for the footings!
Construction resumes on Monday. The inspecter has identified that we need to create a water/dryer closet to put them in an insulated area. We also have a large amount of back-fill to perform :/
You get to use the tractor? I mean, ahem.... Bella?
While all the building's been going on, Stink loaded the truck with 1 ton of rock and made a rock pathway (I think to the trailer). She's also been fixing ruts created by the big truck while it was wet.
I made a comment to Stink that she prob doesn't want to put more than 3/4-ton of rock in the 1-ton truck in the future :)
Might make the springs a bit squishy. At least I bet it keeps her out of trouble. ::)
Stinks back, picture time :)
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-173dcff7d41343fc978498d3742c2534.jpg)
This is the auger they used
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-0d571f1ad602459abc5b60a859882b39.jpg)
There's a way to raise poles
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-87c465a5bae3413293b9f614b722b61d.jpg)
Poles up, no concrete
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-e36ca6cc2b5f4cbcbef81001b6cd5246.jpg)
Concrete + main floor
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-3a7798cabba14196ac8e3ea16547fdf6.jpg)
What Stink did with the rock
Good progress and the landscaping looks great. Thanks for the update.
Pole frame goes up quick and can get you under cover in record time. Looks like you're making good progress. :D
The downside of pole construction comes at the other end of the project when you have to fuss with insulation and sealing around the posts. But then, maybe that's all been worked out. 8)
Looking good! Moving along really fast c* Stinkerbell, you're quite the foreman & landscaper [cool]
Thankies!
Stink nice job on the temporary landscape. Better than alot of peoples permanent place.
Nethog at least you have the right equipment to lessen the aches and pains. Nice size structure.
Update
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-5e2f340103624bc9ba6fb452bd66f877.jpg)
Impressive. That is looking great, Hog.
I was just curious where you got ahold of that plan? It looks pretty interesting to me. Might fit into what I am considering. The Pole const sure does speed things up, and simplify the foundation.
Most of the credit for the layout plan (per earlier in this thread) goes to Stink.
The plan for the 'shell' was done in conjunction of Stink and the builder (http://www.townandcountrybuilders.com/)
Initial discussion with the builder indicated that the poles should be no more than 12ft apart, and gave us a good idea of what we could and could not achieve.
We went for a square plan since that is most optimal for square footage per linear foot of exterior construction. 36'x36' proved to be an optimally good size.
We wanted plenty of storage space, and a 2nd-floor living room. We obviously needed at least an entry on the 1st floor.
Stink drafted up the plans pretty much as you see them above. T&CB redrew them to meet their engineering needs with a couple of changes around the stairs (reflected in the design above) but the floor plan of the shell pretty much remained as Stink designed it.
As for the interior design choice, we took a design of an eventual layout (deck, couple of bedrooms, large walk-in closet etc) and pulled it back to the bare minimum that is needed to qualify as habitable.
Interesting system. It looks like the poles are PT and square 8x8, or 6x6?? The horizontal framing (girts?) must be 2x6 and will be insulated.
Looks like the roof girders and floor joists are supported and nailed to the outside of the posts. This must define the outer plane of the wall.
All the poles but the inner 4 poles are 8x6 and the 4 inner poles are 10x6.
I a currently getting the run around on bids for the concrete floor.....grrrrrrrrrrr
I want a 4" floor with rebar. There is a 18" slope. I can not seem to get a contractor who will do the whole job. The last bid I got today was for 5500, I have to provide the gravel and it says customer will provide tractor. I never said they could use my tractor. Not only that I have no idea how much gravel, plus doesn't the gravel need to be compacted down with one of those pounding type of machines? What type of gravel? I am just confused and irritated. I hate the vagueness of the bid. I was clear on they have to bring it to grade.... Ironic thing is that the same guy through the builder was willing to do the job for 1000 cheaper if I signed up 3 months ago when I first started. I had to have the site ready for pour. I have no idea what I need to do with the grade, what type of rock. I do not think there is any support bra in the world that would help me when using the pounding machine thingy............
Perhaps you could post a video of the problem and we could offer suggestions? hmm
Why don't you get the rock in there with Bella, Stink -- She has a loader bucket doesn't she?
Talk to a rock supplier - sand and gravel etc. Tell them what you want it for - I'm thinking 3/4 crushed or something like that. Recrushed concrete would work and may be cheaper also. You could rent a compactor -
http://www.buncerental.com/compaction.htm example -- check locally.
Its the compactor I think that scares me. No Bra is strong enough!
I suppose it is possible a gal could get a black eye. [crz]
I haven't ever had a problem. hmm Maybe it would be a problem for me if I had man-boobs though. ::)
Hey stink if I may make a suggestion or two. First off I would tend to go with a #57 stone to bring it all up to at least the last 5-6". Then go with a smaller stone such as crush and run for the last 1-2". The 57 already has a good compaction rate without any additional compaction. Then the additional 1" or so of smaller so that you can keep it on grade. The 57 stone is a little larger and hard to fine tune.
In regards to the bra. I think a good ace bandage would work fine. With a plate vibrating compactor there shouldn't be any damage unless you use your chest to push it around. ;D
John:
High bearing poles are 6x10, lower bearing poles are 6x8.
Redoverfarm:
What's #57 stone?
Glenn:
We had 100cuyd of 5/8 crushed rock delivered. You'll see from the pictures Stink has been putting some of it in and around the house.
Progress Update:
Last construction day was Thursday. On Wednesday, Stink let me on the Kubota (she had crashed out) to dig down 2ft for 2 of the stair support posts (actually just dug one hole for the two), and I went into town to pick up 1 cuft of concrete to fill around 7 posts c/o a "u tow". Meanwhile the crew of two that had been constructing the building were finishing off the stairs. As you see, we've got foam around where the slab will go.
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-3edb03472e4d4831a918494b97d47445.jpg)
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-eefa270cd5ce414798f269fa7dca2883.jpg)
Here's a nice picture of the windows at the back of the house where we will eventually put a deck:
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-96aab692d3e24d07acc75477c678c57b.jpg)
Top of stairs facing down:
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-e85e158eb9c7420b8e0bd4d8528f7667.jpg)
Wider shot, showing some of the roof overhang:
(http://wehavea.name/Photo.ashx/full-2cece4161a194a1b9664ca9f3a9ab8d6.jpg)
That is outstanding, Hog and Stink.
That really gives you a head start on getting things going and looks great if you ask me. :)
Wow, impressive! Looks really nice 8) and lots of room.
Nethog here is the definitions of the various stone sizes. I had been told by several in the construction field that the #57 stone has a natural compaction of like 75-80%. I use it for about everything even concrete mix. A little large for this application but it is fine if you work it down in the slurry. But for a bottom base I don't think it can be beat. Used alot in medium base material for roads and retaining walls.
http://www.alconco.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=272
The second site is a calculator to determine the amount of stone you need.
http://www.alconco.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=287
Hope this works for you
John
I am glad I locked in at the price I did. The price of everything seems to be going up.
Yup -- the steel siding company almost seemed embarrassed last time I asked the price.
Thanks to the war for oil destruction of the economy -- dollars don't buy much anymore.
The slab cost went up. I think we will have to wait until next spring to do the slab.
Felt good to leave things behind at the property. To leave things locked up and stored.
The slab is the next big item, then after that most other work can be done here and there.
Stink I hate to tell you but it will probably cost more down the road. Seems everything is on an upward spiral now. Cost of transportation to haul the raw materials to the bulk plant along with crushing cost which is all energy driven.
Yes it is good to have locked doors. For several months I hauled everything on the mountain each morning and down in the evening. A real PIA. The I finally got the basement door and lock and was able to leave the tools under lock and key.
100 cu yards of crushed cost 3,200 . I am still trying to figure out how to pay for that.