Electricity from your wheelbarrow(s)
(http://www.southcom.com.au/~jamesb/Wheelborrow%20Mill.jpg)
Pretty good Don. When I was first looking at the heading of the post I was thinking to my self. There is no way I could ever push a wheel borrow or even what to enought to get a light to burn.
Innovative. :)
Funny what you run across when searching for info. I was researching Savonius wind rotors, amongst other things related to wind power, when I came across that.
Been thinking about wind power all weekend. ???
Probably [crz]
I love it. Nice color, too!
Quote from: MountainDon on May 19, 2008, 12:03:54 AM
Been thinking about wind power all weekend. ???
Care to share with the class? c*
It must take a pretty stiff breeze to get that one going.
Nice design. I wonder if he had access to cheap wheelbarrows. Looks like NM or AZ.
Very good Scott... someplace north of Taos, NM; possibly far enough north to be in CO. The website I saw the picture on didn't know for sure.
Quote from: John C on May 19, 2008, 07:20:54 AM
Care to share with the class?
A long and twisty answer. We spent the weekend up in the mountains... I think there may be more wind over our ridge than I gave credit for. ??? Even through the trees, instead of the ideal, over the trees. 55 to 70 feet tall.
The nearby weather station records aren't real helpful as it is down at the bottom of a slope. However my weather station doesn't record anything more than gusts and current conditions. To make a time record through the day/week I'd have to park a computer up there with it running all the time. Not practical.
I found a wind data recorder online last night. $400 is not practical either.
An item posted by BiggKidd, Larry, caught my eye.
Wind Blue Power (//www.windbluepower.com/Wind_Blue_Power_Lite_Breeze_Complete_Low_Wind_Kit_p/cy-low-kit.htm) Larry was after the alternator/generator but their wind gen was what my mind latched onto.
Wind Blue uses rotors from
TLG (http://tlgwindpower.com/) They have many rotors, some that will start with 2 mph winds.
The Low Wind kit from Wind Blue costs little more than the wind data logger.
Wouldn't it be fun to experiment?
Quote from: MountainDon on May 19, 2008, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: John C on May 19, 2008, 07:20:54 AM
Care to share with the class?
A long and twisty answer. We spent the weekend up in the mountains... I think there may be more wind over our ridge than I gave credit for. ??? Even through the trees, instead of the ideal, over the trees. 55 to 70 feet tall.
The nearby weather station records aren't real helpful as it is down at the bottom of a slope. However my weather station doesn't record anything more than gusts and current conditions. To make a time record through the day/week I'd have to park a computer up there with it running all the time. Not practical.
I found a wind data recorder online last night. $400 is not practical either.
An item posted by BiggKidd, Larry, caught my eye. Wind Blue Power (http://www.windbluepower.com/Wind_Blue_Power_Lite_Breeze_Complete_Low_Wind_Kit_p/cy-low-kit.htm) Larry was after the alternator/generator but their wind gen was what my mind latched onto.
Wind Blue uses rotors from TLG (http://tlgwindpower.com/) They have many rotors, some that will start with 2 mph winds.
The Low Wind kit from Wind Blue costs little more than the wind data logger.
Wouldn't it be fun to experiment?
Don,
Sounds like we came to the same conclusion over the weekend. It amazind just how much wind we get up the hillside after sunrise. I get up around 6-7AM and its nice and still. By 9 or so theres a heak of a breaze that blows from then until dusk. With the cost of their windblue set up I think we are going to try one too. If I keep it short then the low wind might work but if I go up say 50' the winds up there are pretty stiff. At least judging by the tree tops folded over in gusts.
Let us know what you decide to do.
Thanks Larry
You may find morning and afternoon breezes that are useful. 30 feet minimum above the tallest obstacle is best. Wind 100 feet above the ground is at least 3 times more than that on the ground. You may have a good breeze there and feel nothing on the ground.
You can build your own tilt up tower-
I like the Bergey as it has the Boost system that will take a couple volts and step it up to a voltage useful for charging although you may be able to find or design something that will do that.
Also - wind charts are generally designed for commercial uses and ignore small micro climates that can be very good for the individual wind turbine. I am in such an area.
QuoteVery good Scott... someplace north of Taos, NM; possibly far enough north to be in CO
I've been all over that part of the country at one time or another. I'll never forget the great hot air balloon disaster in Raton, NM back in the 90's. We where getting ready to leave the motel early one saturday morning when balloons began crashing all around us. One just barely missed my car. They where comming down in the streets and parking lots everywhere. I guess they had some sort of rally and all the ballons got caught in some sort of downdraft. What a mess it was.
Quote from: BiggKidd on May 19, 2008, 10:33:35 AM
Let us know what you decide to do.
Thanks Larry
Well, I've decided to collect some data. Numbers! :)
I'm ordering a weather station and am going to collect data for a while when we're up there. Hook it up to the laptop using a small inverter for power. We'll see how that goes.
I chose a model from Oregon Scientific that comes with a USB connection; the WMR100. Most of the computer enabled models still use a serial connection; I'd have to get the Serial/USB adapter. >:( It also comes with basic software for data collection. That helps to keep the cost down. I wanted one for up there all along, just never had the need to connect up to a 'puter before.
I had a couple questions for Windblue. Mainly about whether or not one of the other larger TLG rotor blade sets would bring any increae in low wind performance. The increase for the one I considered was so slight it wouldn't be worth the expense, according to Windblue.
Oh, I also asked about whether or not they had any problems with the bearings due to the axial loads imposed by the rotor. They said in three years of constant operation they'd had no bearing failures. :)
I have a wind power question...
Note I am electronically challenged... so bear that in mind...
I have studied over the plans to build a generator that utilizes a GM altenator.. the turbines spin the altenator through a fanbelt usually... and the altenator charges up a series of Batteries... Ideally propane forklift (according to Glenn)
Okay.... Here is why I am asking...I bought a 1984 International School bus... Diesel... It is a 6.9 Non turbo... It runs and drives great and I have it sold to a guy at a scrap yard that wants to use it for storage.... I noticed the altenator on the motor is massive looks like it might be a 2-300 amp altenator
Okay here is where I get stupid... Does this mean when spinning at speed it puts out more amps to charge the batteries than a normal car altenator which run from 50-90 amps depending if you get a heavy duty or not?
I like this altenator because it is like the GM... It has only 2 wires on it...Same wire prong connectors... very simplistic altenator to use
If So I will scavenge the altenator and put it on the shelf for future use... I imagine getting one of those altenators in a store would cost a fortune....So if I am right I will stash it away for when I have time to play with a wind power system....likely next year at the rate I am getting projects done around here.
What I have heard about wind generators is that they must have a load on them as soon as they start turning or they will self destruct. Whatever excess power is produced needs to be used up. Someone wiser than me on this topic can probably tell us if that is true and how to accomplish it in the simplest fashion.
The battery for the forklift is from an electric forklift. I recently heard of one person with one who said the expected life of it is 30 years or more - at least from his experience on the one he has. These batteries are massive - 1000 lbs or more?
The alternators can be big on diesel trucks but the problem with them is the regulating you need to do and the power you need to supply to get them started. Nearly everyone has gone to permanent magnet alternators or generators to produce current from the wind generators. The GM ones you see have had permanent magnets added to them and are not the same as a car or truck one.
Right on the load, desdawg. They need the load all of the time butt there are many aftermarket regulators that will switch you to a dump load such as a heater coil when the batteries are charged. Trace, Morningstar and Outback all make them I think. Most can also be used to regulate solar - which could be either cut off or sent to dump load.
Right on the magnets. You're wasting your time and electricity if you don't use permanent magnets in a home power generation system. Someone mentioned that the car alternator only needs to draw power from the battery to get stated producing; that's true. But if the wind is just a gentle breeze too much of what you're making is going to be used to power the electromagnets. Then there's also the question of how do you turn off the power draw to the electromagnets when the thing is sitting there in a no wind situation, and then turn it on when the wind starts to blow. I must admit I'm just getting interested in wind power and maybe there is a way around that. Maybe not. But the Permanent Magnets seem a great idea.
Note too that the WindBlue Power modified Delco alternator can be used to provide 3 phase AC power down to the batteries, where the rectification to DC takes place. Gives you smaller gauge wires down the pole to the batteries location. That is very attractive to me. It can also be wired to suplly DC as in an auto.
I also liked the AC concept. It sounds like a great idea.
Don,
That weather station your getting is it one of the ones you can link up with the net and leave running all the time or can you get any services up on your mountain? I was just thinking you could set it up with a remote cheapy ($99) lap top to keep an eye on things when you are not there. I think I heard somewhere you can get an air card and use a micro burst for transmission to keep user time down. I don't really know what I am talking about though. You probibly know more about that stuff than I do.
Larry
The laptop will likely pull about 100 watts so it would take quite a bit of power to keep it running 24 hours or 2.4 kwh.
I have had a couple of the same weather stations -- the reports are great but the anemometer didn't like the swinging at the top of the wind tower and broke on both. Keep in mind that the wind on the ground will not represent the wind at 80 feet or better up -- probably more than triple with lots of trees.
Larry, yes it can be connected to the internet. Sadly there is no economical internet connection where we are. satellite internet is the only way, other than using a cell phone connection. I would love to have internet access so I could monitor weather, battery condition, video feed, etc. That would be so cool and is available with the right technology and $$ spent.
Glenn, I have a Kill-A-Watt test underway. :) When it's idling;that is the laptops not giving an active sign of the battery being charged, but the computer is working, Kill-A-Watt gives me 17 - 20 watts use. Hmmmm. I just pulled the plug for a minute or two and now that it's replenishing the battery charge it reads 21 watts steady.
So the plan is to let it run for 24 hours, then 48, and 72 and collect the KwH totals. Of course up there in the mtns there'll also be some inverter losses.
You should know I wouldn't be simply taking a guess. ;D
I should have known --
I thought they pulled a lot more but I guess they are rated at max and use a lot less on low power.
Mine says input 100 to 240v ~2.4a
... and when the power settings turn off the screen it drops to 12-13 watts.
I didn't know that -- I have a Kill-a-watt but never tried it on just my computer.
Power bumps to 30 - 37 when it has to load a page or the processor fan comes on.
What a thrill to watch. ;D ;D
At 13 hours we're at 0.20 KwH consumed.
I left it on all night which I don't usually do.
Okay, this seems to be straightforward... at 24 hours the meter shows 0.40 KwH consumed. Very linear time/KwH function. Probably not much to be proved by extending the test. My poor old RV batteries should be able to supply that with no problem... unless the elcheapo inverter consumes more than that it self.
Today the new weather station arrived. I set it up temporarily to make sure it functions before I cart it off up to the mountains. Here's a shot of the unit on a 6 ft pole in the backyard...
(https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/oddsnends2/weather-station.jpg)
Here's a screen shot of the included software...
(https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/oddsnends2/weather-display.jpg)
There are a few wrinkles to work out... like the reading for the minimum temperature. ???
Quote from: benevolance on May 20, 2008, 12:58:49 AM
I have a wind power question...
Okay here is where I get stupid... Does this mean when spinning at speed it puts out more amps to charge the batteries than a normal car altenator which run from 50-90 amps depending if you get a heavy duty or not?
It is possible to put out more amps, but only if the load is there. And if it is putting out more amps, it is also much, much harder to spin. So if you have a 60 Amp alternator running at 1200RPM (whatever speed), and a 100 Amp alternator running at the same speed, and they are both fully loaded from an electrical standpoint, the 100 amp alternator requires much more mechanical energy to spin at that speed.
Think of them like two shovels (big and little), and you have a fixed rate at which you can shovel. You can move more dirt with the big shovel, but it takes more work on your part. But remember that you don't have to do a full shovel load....you can put just a little bit of dirt in that big shovel to save your back, but the capacity is always there if you need it.
Just because a 100 Amp alternator is spinning at full speed does not mean that it is putting out 100 Amps. It could be shoveling along with an empty load.
BTW... speaking of alternator gensets, I made this one last year out of an old lawnmower and some 1" square tubing. I needed a portable way to put a heavy duty charge on some batteries:
(https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q46/nm_longshot/genset.jpg)
-f-
Great enginuity, Frank.