Ok my current house was build in say the 70s so some electrical annomilys occur. But one Breakers worth off electrical outlets will randomly stop working without flipping a breaker in the box, it seems to make no diffrence what is running at the time and is random in occurence and in a fairly short period of time it will come back on and run till it does it all over again.....Need mor info please let me know. but its got me a bit bumfuzzled :) any help you could give me will be greatly appritiated.
It's absolutely impossible to diagnose an intermittent problem over the internet. My guess is that you have a bad breaker. If your brave enough, take the faceplate off and leave it off until it happens again. When it does, measure the voltage between the neutral buss and the load side of the breaker. No voltage = bad breaker.
If it were me...and I'm famous for doing risky things....I'd play it safe and replace the breaker and see if it happens again. A bad breaker is nothing to play games with.
Aluminum or copper wiring?? My bet is you have Al and that's the origin of the problem. :-/
Or if you like experimenting, switch that breaker with another and see if the problem transfers to the other circuit.
Mt. Don
Copper AFAIK i think i'll see about getting a breaker for it Tomarrow and see what happens when i put it in
there is quite a bit of stuff runing on this breaker but i was under the impression if it was to much it would trip the breaker am i wrong.?
Copper's good.
Breakers are supposed to pop, completely disconnect the circuit. Maybe like Peter suggested it is a bad breaker. They're cheap enough to swap for a new one. If you're up to changing one, before you go get a new one, you could make certain the connections in the box are tight. Be absolutely sure to disconnect the mains before going inside and still be very careful inside the panel. If you have a panel like mine the mains disconnect breaker is in the box and will have one side live at all times. If in doubt call a pro.
Get the same size breaker, no bigger. (shouldn't have to say that, but just to be safe...)
I've commented on my dislike for breakers before. They are supposed to pop on demand but unless it is a GFI, it is a slower cut out, especially if it's only slightly overloaded.
I can't tell you how many times I've pulled outlets on 15 amp lines that someone was running a 20 amp AC on, and found the hot wire insulation burned off for several inches.
In an overload situation like that the breaker sometimes builds up carbon on the blades and will cause the problem you describe. The big issue with that is when the breaker becomes stuck closed and a fire results.
You don't have those problems with a fuse unless you stick a penny behind a blown one.
Thank you all for your Help, I hope to get a breaker tomarrow and get this fixed soon its driving use nuts :)
Please let us know what happens. :)
[highlight]Please let us know what happens. Smiley[/highlight]
Yes, please do. There are other things that can cause the problem (Like the push in connections on outlets...another of my peeves) but that's where I would start.
What brand is your panel?
If it's Zinsco you should have it replaced ASAP .
Here's a link :http://www.inspect-ny.com/electric/Zinsco.htm
They , their breakers make fine welders , :o ;D
Shocking news, Paul.
I love this excerpt from the website "If you are having an emergency right now such as seeing smoke or fire you should get occupants out of the building and call the fire department. " ::)
...and they're UL approved. Hmmm.
We had some at a rental house that had the zinsco problem -- bad aluminum connections where the breaker clips on. :-/
I would begin checking all of the receptacles on that circuit. If they are backstabbed (as said earlier), that is very likely the cause since one loose connection can affect all receptacles downstream. I realize you probably don't know what receptacles are on that circuit, but if you do, and if any do work when you are having the problem, that rules out the breaker, and points to a bad connection in a receptacle.
You may be right. I based my original answer on his saying ALL the outlets went out. I made an assumption I shouldn't have. I assumed he both knew where all of them were and that he had checked them all.
Good point about the backstabbed receptacles, switches - etc., PA-Builder. I hate them so bad I don't even consider using them even if they are on the fixture I am using. I have had many problems with them.
Well So far the new breaker is holding and the light aint out yet so only time will tell but i figure if it goes a day or 2 with out dying where good :)
Were the receptacles NOT working just prior to installing the new breaker ?
Were there any loose screws / wires at the breaker when you replaced it ?
Don't toss the old breaker just yet.
QuoteWere the receptacles NOT working just prior to installing the new breaker ?
Were there any loose screws / wires at the breaker when you replaced it ?
Don't toss the old breaker just yet.
Hay Well it didnt fix the problem :( it still cuts out randmoly...but after a bit of tinkering i think it might be load related i an My PC and a few other things off another breaker and we havent had an outage since then....does that help any.?
PA Builder Yes the recepticles where working just prior to the replacment no no loose screw (exept the ones in my head) or wires no burnt or otherwis suspect wires in the box also....
You checked to see that none of the receptacles were backstabbed also as PA mentioned?-- ( little holes in the back of a plug that wires just poke into to create a connection).
They very commonly cause this type of problem.
I would check while all are working with a tester or lamp. Try to find everything on that circuit and make note of it. Then load it up until it quits -- look for which box is the last one working or if none work. Check the last one for a bad connection or the first dead one.
If the break does not trip and power goes off you have a wire type problem , in either a "J" box in the attic or crawlspace , J boxes should be accessible , BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT SOME DIY or for pay electrician may have done at some time in the past.
#1 : Turn off all electrical power and check the wires at the breaker and the neutral on the buss bar that goes to that breaker.
#2: Now turn on the electrical power and only the breaker in question , you need to find the first breaker on that circuit, pull it out , carefully then wiggle it , to see if you can get power to go off , use a lamp for a test light , DO NOT USE A METER. Meter's take no load and will indicate full power or full continuity , BUT IF A LOAD IS PLACED ON THE CIRCUIT IT MAY NOT WORK , so use a test light / plug in lamp , or the TV any thing that draws a load.
Some where you have a loose connection on that circuit, could be the back stabs folks have mentioned could be a big group of wires in a wire nut and the important one the feed is not making full contact.
I was a aviation electrician in the USN we had many loose wire / connection issues / gripes we called them , a meter is worst than worthless in this type of gripe as it will fool you into thinking the connections are OK when they are not.
So good luck sailor , opps in mean cyric30 ;D
I crack me up sometimes ;D
You're just too hilarious sometimes PEG--- and nearly always right too. ::)
:-?
PS -- I already told Sassy what you were going to reply but - go ahead -- put down your first thoughts. ;D
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You're just too hilarious sometimes PEG--- and nearly always right too. ::)
:-?
PS -- I already told Sassy what you were going to reply but - go ahead -- put down your first thoughts. ;D
Ya I know :-[ maybe I should just shut the heck up eh, NOT ! ;D
I guess it depends , is that what your looking for :-/
No -- I thought you may have a problem with the word, "Nearly". ;D
None of us want you to shut up -- You are our fountain of knowledge. 8-)
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#1: No -- I thought you may have a problem with the word, "Nearly". ;D
#2: None of us want you to shut up -- You are our fountain of knowledge. 8-)
#1: Oh, I'm wrong sometimes , and it always cost me money when I am >:( But about the test light Vs. meter I'm right, no doubt in my military mind on that one. We chased a bad dump valve for a week , drippin fuel on landing , made the Air Boss mad , drippin JP on his deck. We finally found a partly crushed wire under the #3 turtle back, going to that valve back in the tail. We had read power at the valve ten times , we finally pulled all 3 turtle backs and test light checked every disconnect from the CB panel in the cock house going aft , till we found that wire between two disconnects way back aft. Lots of man hours wasted by that meter >:(
Fool me once shame on me , fool me twice , on the same type gripe , and I'd be a dummy! Hey that wasn't right was it ?? :-?
This is that same type gripe , a loose connection / broken back stab / disconnect , where in the house it is , that's the problem , he has to isolate that circuit and track it down ! >:(
#2: I'm not sure I'm a " fountain" maybe a lil hose , but a fountain , nah :-[
I totally agree with you on the light/load on that circuit. I've seen the same thing with meters.
Nothing much worse than trying to find an intermittent. I almost said to plug in lots of stuff and look for smoke, but didn't want to alarm anybody. ::)
I wasn't a pro like you in the military, but did take 2 years electronics with straight A's -- I reserved A's only for classes I liked. ;D
QuoteI was a aviation electrician in the USN we had many loose wire
After walking through a C-5 at the air show I can't even imagine trying to sort out a problem in that maze of wiring. Of course that's a little bigger than an A-6 or EA-6B
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think that's it.
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After walking through a C-5 at the air show I can't even imagine trying to sort out a problem in that maze of wiring. Of course that's a little bigger than an EA-6B
Ya but a C-5 has a much easier life, it doesn't go from zero to 138 kts in 300 or so feet and it doesn't land from 128 kts to zero in about that same 300 feet and there's room to put stuff where a guy can get at it and see it , mostly I'm sure the moron engineer's who designed the C-5 have found some "hell holes" to stuff box's in .
Nor does the C-5 operate in a salt water environment where sea water is crashing over the bow drenching the A/C in salt water , and what does salt water and metal cause class? Right corrosion and is corrosion our friend ?? No I don't think so !
So in other words those Air Force pukes have it way easier then a sailor , they get better perdeum ( sp can't spell that one ) as well , plus better quarters , air fields , PX's etc , Hey why I'd join the navy ;D Ta see the world , that's why and that did work out pretty well , really :)
Boy this guys goin be pissed three driftmasters at work here :-[ Oh well ;D
That is why my plane has been in the shop for 6 years- corrosion -- - that and I don't especially want to pay what it will cost to fix it. :(
QuoteThat is why my plane has been in the shop for 6 years- corrosion -- - that and I don't especially want to pay what it will cost to fix it. :(
That's partly what did in the A-6 as well, well that and carring huge pay loads of bombs in Veitnam , along with flyin on and off the ship , stressed the wing roots. Thatand jinking around SAM tryin to rip the wings off to avoid them , all in all the A-6 was a workhorse of a jet, the F-18 will never be the worker it was.
We had a walk through an E-3 too. Now that must be stuffed with more cables than you'd want to deal with. Nothing in the open either like the C-5. Not close enough to any water to have the Navy here. Lot's of Air Force around the state though.
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We had a walk through an E-3 too. Now that must be stuffed with more cables than you'd want to deal with. Nothing in the open either like the C-5. Not close enough to any water to have the Navy here. Lot's of Air Force around the state though.
Did you mean a E-2 Hawkeye , the hummer as it's known in the fleet?
There's a few sub groups that take care of wiring at least in the navy , Aviation Electrician's (AE's ) take care of power supply , interior / ext. lighting , basic pilot instrumentation , AOA angle Of Attach, attitude , etc and power TO other ratings equipment say air conditioning , radios , jammers pods etc . So all the wires aren't one rating problems although the AE's do have to "prove" proper power , phase , amps , volts etc is delivered to the other guys stuff.
So a AE much like a carpenter on a house needs to , or should get to know a little about evryone else stuff :) At least if your good at it you will.
So how far should we drift? ;D
Make a ready deck ! Hawkeye next on the ball !
(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/cf/180px-DN-SD-07-00010.jpg)
QuoteDid you mean a E-2 Hawkeye
E-3 Sentry, a Boeing 727 with the big dish on top. The airman I talked with said they came in from Tinker AFB in OK.
Seems we have been getting the words, electric or wiring in 1 out of 5 postings or so. That should keep the censors happy. :)
One thing I found interesting was that each of the 4 engines has a 1 megawatt electric generator and wiring to provide the power needed for the radar.
Glenn, maybe I should mention there were a couple B-1B's as well. The one on static display had the bomb bay doors open so we could see the mounts for the bombs. Then there were some dummy missiles . They did an arming display showing how the missiles were loaded onto the aircraft. ;D That was done on an F-117
QuoteOne thing I found interesting was that each of the 4 engines has a 1 megawatt generator to provide the power needed for the radar.
A Prowler EA-6B has two one on each engine, they both can run all the needed A/C power needs , Sunstrand, gennerator that put out 115 VAC, 3 phase , 400 htz, 28 VDC and 26 VDC are also converted from thos etwo bad boys . It also has a Ram Air Turbine ( RAT) that deploys on top of the port wing that can provide emergency power to run interior / ext. lighting and basic flight instrumation .
Each jammer POD has it's own RAT , a Prowler can carry up to 5 jammer POD's , generally they carry two Jammer POD's , and three fule drop tanks that carry 2000 lbs of JP-5 , the A/C it self carries 17,400 LBS of fuel in the mains and wing tanks , so a basic fuel load is called a 19.4 load, take off weight is about 54,000 LBS.
A A-6 with a full bomb load plus fuel had to be around close to 60,000 or maybe 70,000 LBS. I never worked on A-6' s so I'm guessing a little on that take off weight.
With Smart bombs those loads would be less, a F-18 is a lot lighter as well.
Shall we lay off the drift now and maybe Cyric30 will come back with a further report to get this thread back on topic? :D
I do like aircraft though.
I better say G'Nite.
G'nite -- and Cyric, please report back on the electrical problem. :)
Hay All Update here
Ok best i could tell it was a bad plug-in i replaced 3 that i found that where suspect and its been 2 days with no power outages so im really hoping its fixed now :p
Thank you all for your help :)
The receptacles are probably OK. If they were back-stab connected (holes on the back where you just push a wire in), you should be good if you just connect the wires to the screws on the side of the receptacle. Like the breaker, I wouldn't throw these away either.
the ones i replaced where screw types and i also replaced them with screw types i dont know what was wrong But its been 3 days now and still got power :)
OK. Sounds like you solved your problem . . . :)