OK, so here's the scoop... earlier in 2007 my wife and I decided that we wanted to build our own house. I was inspired while watching this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1932521076528625515&q=country+living&pr=goog-sl (skip the first 9 minutes to get past most of the religious stuff). In this video a guy claims to have built a 2-story house for $12k (I think). EVERYONE should watch this video just for the basic water and electrical generation information.
Anyway, according to our priorities, our house must meet the following critieria:
1. Just big enough to meet our needs - no bigger (family of 6... heading toward 8, Lord willing!).
2. Use only value oriented materials (not fancy; just reliable, comfortable shelter)
3. Be completely "off-grid" (solar/wind generation, well/septic, geothermal heating/cooling)
4. Be as cheaply built as possible (efficient design/construction)
5. Be paid for completely in cash - no borrowing
I have a copy of Chief Architect, so I have been messing around with trying to come up with the most efficient design in a size just big enough for our family. Last week I came across CountryPlans and saw that the Universal 20' wide 2-story plan pretty much accomplished everything I needed in a size apropriate for our family! Additionally, to have a forum of support from people who are experienced owner-builders is a HUGE plus. So we have decided to work toward building this plan.
I have not yet decided on the length. I'm inclined to split the difference between the plan and JimmyC's house - 36'. I want to keep it on a 4' grid floorplan to maximize material use and limit waste. Additionally, I am planning on going with 4x6 exterior walls on 24" centers. There is a lot of good information on value oriented framing here: http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/info/documents/pdfs/26449.pdf (Thanks, JimQPublic!).
Here is where it get's interesting... we have decided to try to get all of our materials for free... or close (with a few major exceptions). We are going to make a complete list of materials, and systematically we are going to dumpster-dive, garage sale, online ads, etc. Just like a "Scavenger Hunt"! We don't care if it is used, or a remnant, as long as it is in solid condition and usable. We don't even care it it matches. We might pick up a box of hardwood flooring here, and another there, and as long as they are the same thickness we will make a completely patchwork floor. Our faucets and towel racks don't have to be the same color. Even our cabinets might be each different (just tied together with a singular counter top)! It will be a patchwork house - QUALITY materials of various textures... not a bunch of junk nailed together.
We figure this will take us several years (3-5?) to get all of the materials. In the meantime we are saving up to buy land, so we've got time. If we do this right, we might have all of our materials at the same time we have enough money to buy land and pay for permits/foundation.
Anyway, I'll keep you updated in this thread as we start to find FREE stuff to check off our "Scavenger Hunt" list.
Jonathan
PS - I'll be getting my plans ordered as soon as possible.
Quite a challenge. Should be interesting. :)
Note that in a code/inspected area, building officials will require new stamped lumber - gov needs it's cut , so you may need to find a location with no inspections or permits required to accomplish this.
I too am a "Scavenger". One thing about scavenging is "Where to store all the STUFF?" I am building a cabin for my wife so I need STUFF to build and of course to save $$$$. I have one room completely filled with STUFF almost to the ceiling. Have STUFF under the beds, in 3 closest, STUFF in the living room, which no one lives in, and I have STUFF store at by brothers place. (Which he has used some of my STUFF to make his stuff with. That is ok with me for 2 reasons, first it pays for using his place to store and give me more room to get more STUFF.
Good way to look at it. :)
I have stuff that I have saved for 20 years or more that I still find a place for. I guess I have an acre or so at the other place. Working on it here, but have to make a flat spot on the mountain every time I want to add something major to the collection. :-/
Jonathan,
Try to find a builder in your area that is building lots of houses. If you talk to them, they'll more than likely turn the other way while you dig through their trash. The less they have to Haul the better for them. Just a thought...
Thanks for the tip. I'll talk to some local builders and try to find out when their dumpsters get emptied. I've been thinking about the storage dillema lately... I wonder how big a two-story house looks when all of the parts are in a pile...?
Before I can make a specific materials list I have to know what I'm building. So I've been working on the dimensions/floor plan lately. I want to share these pictures with y'all to get your feedback. Here is some of the thinking behind the plan:
Widened to 24', shortened to 32' (768 sq. ft. footprint). I did this in order to put the home on a 4' grid, and it just happens to also be an 8' grid (convenient). I went with 24' wide to squeeze in a straight stairway. The stairway is somewhat steep (8 3/8" rise and 9" tread), but doable. I shortened the upstairs side walls to 4'. The roof is a 12/12. The master bedroom has a cathedral ceiling and a private stairway up to an open loft. This will end up being my office.
And the second floor...
And this is a rough idea of the loft (with the 2nd floor reference in red):
Jonathan, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong: I believe that the plans are designed so the length can be adjusted without any engineering changes, however the width will require adjustments as well as more structural support and also inspection I would guess :-/ Hopefully someone more engineerial brainy will chime in...
QuoteJonathan, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong: I believe that the plans are designed so the length can be adjusted without any engineering changes, however the width will require adjustments as well as more structural support and also inspection I would guess :-/ Hopefully someone more engineerial brainy will chime in...
I was planning on going with full span engineered I-beam supports. I have read somewhere, though, that you can only do this on a post foundation...? I'm a novice, so if anyone has specific information please chime in!
Preston has a point. If you are working from a set of existing plans be careful about widening. Floor and ceiling joists as well as rafters may have to be increased in size, or interior support beams used. Adding length is usually not a problem.
If you are working from a clean piece of paper, just be certain your spans are properly supported. :)
I don't see any closets in the bedrooms. ?? :-/ :-?
I'm thinking that I might have to enlist a draftsman to do our plans from scratch... perhaps my plans vary too much from the universal 20' two-story.
We weren't planning on having any closets. Instead we will use wardrobes/armiores (sp?). We live a minimalist lifestyle, so we really don't need a lot of storage. Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know... "resale". Well, when we build this house it will probably be located on an 800 acre Wisconsin farm that has been in my wife's family for 5 generations. Even if we decide not to live there we will just rent it out.
There might be issues with code as far as having "bedrooms" without a closet, but we'll just call them offices - might help on the taxes also.
PS - I've been thinking also of a utility/furnace closet. In my mind I'm thinking we'll have a full basement for furnace and hot water. If we don't go with a basement, then I'll have to come up with something else.
I've seen some new homes in the Kansas City area being built with ALL walk-in closets. The entrance is at a 45 degree angle and it allows the room to still feel open! Closets=A must.
I recall John saying something about 20' being ideal for engineered i-beams. The longest I-beams I've ever seen were 24'.
Johnathan sounds like a good project but realisticly you had better extend your completion date somewhat. It will probably take that much time you have set aside to come up with all the materials that you will need. About the materials. You mentioned making a material list which is good but an additional thought is to "grab everything you can now" and then sort through it later. If you go to specifics it will take longer. You can always discard ( But I never do) what you don't need later. While you are scavaging try to pick up some used roof tin. Not for the house but to use to cover your lumber as the standard blue grade utility tarp will not hold up (experience talking because I lost 3/4 of a truck of wormy chestnut lumber in that manner). Good luck and hope you keep in contact with the progress
QuoteI've seen some new homes in the Kansas City area being built with ALL walk-in closets. The entrance is at a 45 degree angle and it allows the room to still feel open! Closets=A must.
I recall John saying something about 20' being ideal for engineered i-beams. The longest I-beams I've ever seen were 24'.
I think I read that 14" I-beams will span 24'. I like this idea to keep the living/dining rooms open. Perhaps 20' span is more cost effective (shorter I-beams).
OK... because I'm the type of person who believes in taking advice (especially if it comes in a flood)... here is a revised second floor plan with closets (including master walk-in). Because the outside walls slope down to 4', I was trying to keep my kids' bunk beds on the center wall (and avoid closet doors). However, I think this layout allows for bunkbeds.
Is this better?
Jonathan
Hey Jonathan,
thought I would share something funny with you! :::::
In the last 96 hours, I have found a brand new(but opened) 12x30 Blue Tarp, 6 rolls of Insulation(Unopened), and a case(4) of unopened furnace air filters!
the tarp and insulation both on the highway, different places different highways
the air filters in a trash dumpster hanging half way out by a shopping center.
It may not be as difficult as you have been thinking, especially since this stuff has come into my hands without having to look for it!
Good for you! 8-)
It's been a year since I decided to go down this path. I have since nearly completed my design (it has changed a lot), and I'm currently looking for a draftsman to draw up my plans. The design is a 24' square 1.5 story (60" outside walls upstairs) with a full basement and 9/12 roof pitch. I am hoping to purchase the land this November, and be permitted and read to build by the end of May.
Here's my question: Does anyone have a SIMPLE (yet thorough) checklist of construction steps in the order in which they need to be completed? It would exceptionally handy if each step included a list of materials (in general) needed to accomplish that step. I'm trying to put together a construction schedule and estimate my materials cost.
I've read a couple books on home building, and quite frankly I feel like I'm way over my head. However, a long time ago I told myself that if it can be done, I can do it -- it just might take me longer, and I'll probably make mistakes along the way.
I'm still planning on scavenging as much materials as possible. My wife and I are talking about disassembling old pallets and using the boards on our inside walls instead of drywall. I should be able to get unlimited old broken pallets. Then it will just be a matter of removing the nails and sorting the boards based upon width and thickness.
PS - How can I upload pictures of my design?
I only have time to touch on your question about using images in posts. Click on the following link.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.0
Don's tutorial on the design and I would suggest going through several of the owner builder projects posted here and make notes along the way starting with foundation, floors, walls roof and finish as you find them occurring.
Quote from: MountainDon on September 18, 2008, 12:35:33 PM
I only have time to touch on your question about using images in posts. Click on the following link.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.0
Thanks for the info! I've linked the pictures below.
My wife and I have decided to live as simply as possible. Here is a list of our criteria which guided our design process:
1. Cash only - no loans
2. In the spirit of "Walden" as simple as possible
3. As small as can adequately accomodate our family of six (I have 4 girls).
4. Completely "off grid" -- no pipes or wires from the outside world
5. As efficient construction as possible (built on 4' grid, simple corners, simple roof, 24' engineered joists 24" OC, no interior load bearing walls)
6. As energy efficient as possible (2x6 exterior walls with 1" hard foam)
7. All energy needs provided through renewable sources of "freely harvested" energy (wood, solar)
I decided that the most inexpensive design would be a 24' square (I opted to diverge from the rectangular plan primarily because I wanted a straight staircase). The upstairs walls will be halved 10' 2x6s, so the side walls will be about 63" in height. I'm planning on building the kids' bunk beds into the wall.
At the center of my design is a Kitchen Queen wood cookstove (http://www.kitchenqueenstoves.com/kitchenqueenstoves/index.html (http://www.kitchenqueenstoves.com/kitchenqueenstoves/index.html)) that will heat the house, cook the food, and heat the water. There are no ducts or fans in my heating system. Directly above the centrally located wood cookstove is a "convection chamber" through which the stovepipe passes. This chamber is spaced between the 24" OC joists and several feet long. On the second floor there will be large vents and baffles by which the heat is directed into each of the two bedrooms near the ceiling. On the outside walls there will be passive floor vents (equal in area to the convection chamber vents) to return cold air to the downstairs. This form of heating also is most efficient in a square design with the stove centrally located.
The second floor ceiling will also be covered in wood salvaged from discarded pallets, but the first floor ceiling will have no covering -- just open joists painted in a light color to give a more spacious feel to the ceiling height.
In the summertime hot water will be provided by a solar water system located on the front porch roof (south-facing) next to the solar electric panels. Our electrical needs will be only minimal -- we even wash our clothes with a hand washer. The big draws will be the well pump, fridge/freezer, and whole-house fan locate in the upstairs hallway to cool the house in summertime. I'd love to find a sterling engine with which to generate electricity from the wood cookstove in the winter. Unfortunately that technology has not yet been refined enough to be commercially feasible.
(https://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/aps_slr/Elevation.jpg)
(https://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/aps_slr/FirstFloorplan.jpg)
(https://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/aps_slr/FirstFloorimage.jpg)
(https://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/aps_slr/SecondFloorplan.jpg)
(https://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/aps_slr/SecondFloorimage.jpg)
(https://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/aps_slr/DSCF0012.jpg)
Nice job on the pix. You can add a line (enter) between them in your posting to space them and make them easier to view.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 19, 2008, 11:46:57 AM
Nice job on the pix. You can add a line (enter) between them in your posting to space them and make them easier to view.
Done! Thanks!
Interesting Jonathan. Where will this be located? Geographically speaking that is. Am I correct in figuring this is a more rural than developed area? I see CO, but it's a big enough state with varied terrain.
Note that you can edit your profile and place personal text that will appear under your ID to the left of every message. You could add your location or whatever.Follow this link..
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4973.0
I do have a couple design questions.
Depending on your weather you might find a mud room a convenient addition at one of the doors. Maybe a section of a porch? I don't have one in my one room cabin, but with six people there might be a lot of coats, rain gear, whatever. Just wondering how that would be handled.
The other question that came to mind is how is that wood stove surrounded, materials, clearances and so on.
Your design work and ease of getting the image posting down pat would indicate you are very handy with computers.
I like your plan. With that many people I'd think hard about adding a main floor 1/2 bath.
nice plans!! that stove is a thing of beauty. did you look into a lister generator(i think that is the name)? i think you would find it interesting. we have links somewhere in the forum. i plan on incorporating one.
This house will be built in west-central Wisconsin on a 5-acre rural property (1/2 wooded, 1/2 field).
A mud room is a good idea. I thought about screening in the front porch for a 3-season porch. I'm really trying to keep this as CHEAP as possible - focus on the necessities rather than the niceties.
I'm planning on having an outhouse in addition to the inside bathroom. I'm still not sure how to get the hot water upstairs from the cookstove. I thought about a handpump and storage tank, but that would probably have to go in the bathroom requiring it to be enlarged. I don't think the cookstove reservoir is designed to operate under water pressure.
The wood stove will be surrounded by a wrought iron railing. Clearances from combustables is an issue to be considered. I'm planning on using a stainless prep-table to the side of the stove rather than traditional cabinets. In fact, we aren't planning any traditional cabinets. We will use shelves and decomissioned commercial stainless prep surfaces/sinks. All part of the "scavening" process. Additionally, I am considering a steel surface to be placed under the stove including a sufficient apron.
Thanks for the tips on the lister generator -- I'll look into it.
My images were created with Chief Architect v.10. I'm lucky enough to have picked up a full copy for $100. It is far more powerful than I am!
BTW... I know I have an issue with egress windows. I'm thinking about using similar sized casement windows in place of the double-hung.
Johnathan, one thing I will point out is your upstairs bathroom is not likely to work due to your sloped ceiling. Aside from the shower potentially spraying on the ceiling, when you get up from the toilet, you are going to hit your head. We had to re-engineer our bathroom 15 times before we finally figured it all out. When working with a sloped ceiling, we found that less than 8'x8' is going to be extremely difficult to use with a regular bathtub. just a thought. Neat plan though. I wanted to have a large master in mine but my girls said they were tired of sharing a room. I lost that battle.. :(
Quote from: Jonathan on September 19, 2008, 01:08:29 PM
I'm still not sure how to get the hot water upstairs from the cookstove. I thought about a handpump and storage tank, but that would probably have to go in the bathroom requiring it to be enlarged. I don't think the cookstove reservoir is designed to operate under water pressure.
If it was mine, I'd use an RV water pump to get the water upstairs. The normal RV pump is 12 VDC and sits there doing nothing until a faucet is opened. Flojet and Shurflo are the two big names. They both also offer their pumps in 120 VAC and 24 VDC configurations. Most of the pumps can run dry without damage. There is an upper temperature limit but off hand I'm not sure what that is. They are normally plumbed to push cold water into the hot tank which then sends the hot water to the point of use. If the temperature is not a problem give that a look.
They both have websites with info on their products.
If you have some other pressure system on the cold side that would allow hot/cold hookups to the tub/shower, etc.
PPL motorhomes in one of many sources. Their prices are fair, service is excellent, and they have real people to talk to if you want/need. I've bought numerous things from them over the years.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com
The only unknown at this time is I believe they are in Houston, if memory serves me well. But they also ship from some location in UT. ???
Jonathan I am on the same page as Scott regarding a full bathroom on the 2nd floor loft. I am going to put a 1/2 bath in the loft of my cabin. I had a fairly large loft area 16' X 18' when it was open. Even a half bath took up an enormous about of space just to allow headroom. So the large area that I once had is no longer. The way I made it work out to be least intrusive was to situate the commode and the sink opposite each other on the wall toward the center of the room. The entrance door divided the two on that same wall. Even given with the minimun of space needed I ended up with about 36" in width for the headroom. The area toward the eve's will be a storage area with a shelf and doors/drawers. I will have to go with a outswing door to accomidate the slope pitch.
This is the area before
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_1647-1.jpg)
This is the same area but from the opposite direction
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_1957-1.jpg)
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_1953-1.jpg)
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_1960-1.jpg)
As a suggestion you may be able to reconfigure the floorplan to reflect the bathroom against the gable end mid center to divide the two bedrooms which may or may not give you the room needed.
We aren't planning on having a shower - just a bath. Also, my in laws have a much lower sloped ceiling (@ 30" wall) with a toilet next to it, and you just have to learn how to sit and stand correctly! ;D I think a 60" wall with a 9/12 pitch should give the average person enough room to maneuvre.
I decided that my wife and I would take the large room so that she could have a sewing table, and I could have a desk (I work from home). by building in bunk beds for the girls on the short wall it leaves plenty of room for other activities on the "tall side" of the room. Also, the built-in beds will have storage under the bottom bunk and a built-in desk between the two.
Our goal really is as SMALL and as SIMPLE as necessary -- nothing more. We recently toured a homesteaders house in Platteville, Colorado circa. 1860. It had two rooms downstairs (kitchen / living room) and a single bedroom upstairs with a 2' outside wall. The man, his wife, and their SIX kids all shared this one bedroom. Sheesh... we have become spoiled. People used to do with a lot less and they survived.
Kudos to you and your wife. My wife is warming to the idea that not every house must have a master bath, and 2nd bath and a half bath for the visitors. She also does not read this site so I can get away with saying that ;D
Does anyone know of a good book on step-by-step how you build your own home? Every book I get on "how to build your own home" is about how to choose a lot and hire subs! It's like writing a book on how to sew your own dress and only covering the subjects of picking out a pattern and fabric. ???
I'm looking for a book in plain English that just covers each of the steps generally -- not exhaustively (that would be a HUGE book). Any recommendations?
John's list of books is about as simple as you can get without leaving too much out. He has made it with the owner builder in mind.
http://www.countryplans.com/books.html
This book
http://www.amazon.com/Pros-Graphic-GT-Fr/dp/1561586366/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222201835&sr=1-3
Which is the updated version of what's on John's list is about the best framing book I have ever seen. It was absolutely invaluable
I actually just read that book on framing last week! It was worth it just for the "water level" foundation check. ;) I'm planning on reading throughout the project -- I can't absorb everything up front, so I will read as I approach each "next step".
I suppose that framing is the single most important thing the owner/builder does, and therefore it requires the most information and careful planning. Do you agree?
Thanks for the list, too!
I don't know if I'd say that framing is the "single most important thing"; it is important but so are many other aspects. That said, if you mess up, if you don't get the basis straight, level and square, everything that comes after that is more difficult.
Flashing, for an example, is also very important. Done poorly it will let water in where water shouldn't be and cause even the most carefully built frame to rot.
Each step is important. Work methodically, ask questions if in doubt before building, rather than after.
But I guess I'd say that framing is most important to get right if you don't want to make problems down the road.
Quote from: Jonathan on October 25, 2007, 09:52:08 PM
We weren't planning on having any closets. Instead we will use wardrobes/armiores (sp?). We live a minimalist lifestyle, so we really don't need a lot of storage.
There might be issues with code as far as having "bedrooms" without a closet, but we'll just call them offices - might help on the taxes also.
Jonathan, Hi from Jimmy C.
It can be done!
I thought I would share a little info with you.
I took advantage of the dead space above the stairwell entrance and made a small closet for my sons room.
(https://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/casonjimmy/Pictures007.jpg)
This is what we use for a closet in my room...
(https://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/casonjimmy/Pictures011.jpg)
This is additional storage in the bedroom.
(https://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/casonjimmy/video2007.jpg)
Also Storage for shoes and stuff in this bench.
(https://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/casonjimmy/video2009.jpg)
Storage for towels above the toilet.
(https://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/casonjimmy/GetAttachment3.jpg)
Thanks, Jimmy! I'm going to build bed frames for our bed (sans box spring which is unnecessary anyway) and for the kids bunk beds. I will incorporate drawers in these frames for clothing storage.
Regarding a mudroom... I've decided that I may try to close in the entire back patio with walls and use it also for storing cord wood in the winter.
Quote from: Jonathan on September 25, 2008, 09:09:56 AM
Regarding a mudroom... I've decided that I may try to close in the entire back patio with walls and use it also for storing cord wood in the winter.
If you are meaning more than a few days worth of wood, storing firewood like that is a bad idea, IMO. No sense in bringing the insects right up to and against more choice food, your house. Firewood also attracts mice, etc. The longer it sits the greater the potential problem. Then there's the increased fire danger, with the large fuel supply sitting right there.
Even if the space is totally enclosed so as to theoretically keep the mice at bay, I would be reluctant to long term store firewood like that. But that may be just me, OMMV.
Those are some of the reasons my extensive firewood piles are 50 to 100 feet from our cabin. We'll have a Rubbermaid box for ready use firewood on the porch. Possibly two small ones so one can be emptied and cleaned as the other is used.
Our firewood is about 20 feet away in a separate shed.. lots of bark- chips- dirt etc
Well I guess this might be something I did half right anyway. I built two fireboxes within my fireplace wall out of concrete blocks. Put a sealed steel door on the outside and wooden sealed doors on the inside. I usually put about a weeks worth of wood in the two boxes which I access from the inside adjacent to the stove. I guess the worse that can happen over time is the bugs will eat up my interior doors heh heh. Sure makes it nice to open a door and get the wood from the inside rather than having to drag firewood through the house. I guess the same could be done with a metal insert but you would have to have a wall thick enough to get any storage.
[cool] John
Coat the inside of the boxes and the door (wood parts) with fiberglass resin.
Quote from: Redoverfarm on September 26, 2008, 09:31:38 PM
Well I guess this might be something I did half right anyway. I built two fireboxes within my fireplace wall out of concrete blocks. Put a sealed steel door on the outside and wooden sealed doors on the inside. I usually put about a weeks worth of wood in the two boxes which I access from the inside adjacent to the stove. I guess the worse that can happen over time is the bugs will eat up my interior doors heh heh. Sure makes it nice to open a door and get the wood from the inside rather than having to drag firewood through the house. I guess the same could be done with a metal insert but you would have to have a wall thick enough to get any storage.
A lot less to worry about there then a whole woodshed full of it. I havent had trouble with the bugs but chips and bark build up several inches over the season in my woodshed. It has a dirt floor - usually I leave enough chips to keep the wood off of the ground and as a nice home for the scorpions.. ::)
Oh but I still have the shed and piles of wood some 50-70 feet from the house under roof. It just takes two wheel borrows to fill them up. And the chips, bark and bugs get cleaned out when my capacity starts to decrease(more frequent trips). But that is what son's are for isn't it ;D. When the snows start getting deep he jumps at the oppurtunity to drive the tractor to bring in wood. I did pick me up a railroad baggage cart sort of like then have at lowes that I was going to use but haven't decided on how to make a canopy yet to leave it parked buy the outside.
Outside
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/100_0513-1.jpg)
Inside
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Antiques/100_1573-1.jpg)