I have been playing around with EasyRafter (Free version) and have come up with the following:
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/EasyRafter1.jpg)
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/EasyRafter2.jpg)
I am trying to use 2x4 stock. Does the configuration above look ok for what I am doing?
You are using the clipped rafter detail - no eave overhang? :-? If so it looks right - I think. :)
You have a 2x ridge board it looks like. that will give you 4' from the centerline to the outside of the rafter. Is the rafter seat what you want (3.5" assumed)?
You will block out a fascia I assume.
This is actually easier to do sometimes with a chalkline or pencil and a framing square on the deck.
I would think that at least a little overhang would be a good idea.Keep the rain from running off the roof and directly down the wall. YMMV
I have to admit that trying to figure our the rafter is a bit intimidating.
I am just looking for a really easy gable roof solution. I figured using clipped rafters would give me less to mess up ::)
With the clipped rafters you could just gutter the front and back as in the illustration for the little house.
(http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/29.gif)
Do a over hang Chris , the birds mouth cut is just a plumb cut where your seat cut is as you show it. Let the rafter tails run wide , install your rafters , then decide how long you want then , mark the end two rafters with a plumb cut , snap a line to connect the two marks , cut tails install facia , repete on the other side . Simple , you can do er big guy ;)
Lay it out on a rafter, take a photo of each end ( the layout deteails , I'll check it out before you cut. You'll cut one pair , check the fit on the shed , remember to reduce each side for 1/2 the thickness of the ridge after the dry run set. Check the fit at both ends , incase your buildings not the same exact size on each end.
When you dry fit them the ridge cuts should meet all the way down the cut , the seat cut should sit flat and the plumb cut at the birds mouth should be touching either your framing (top plate ) or your wall sheathing IF you ran it all the way to the very top of your top plate .
Ridge cuts .
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/July252.jpg)
Tails run wild
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/July2612.jpg)
G/L PEG
In Wagner's framing book - he talks about "Stepping Off the Length" (p. 127)
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lay the (framing) square on the left end on the stock. Hold the square's tongue in (my) left hand and its blade in (my) right. Pivot the square until the edge of the stock near you aligns with the unit rise mark (ie 8) on the outside of the tongue and the 12-inch mark on the outside of the blade. Mark along the outside edge of the tongue for the ridge plum line.
The ridge plum line should be within an inch or so of the end of the stock, not precisely at the end-corner - correct?
Yes it makes it easier to layout if you have the lil extra .
I use square buttons but if you work carefully you can get by without them .
Ridge cut , 8 / 12
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/July27th8.jpg)
Ridge reduction marks,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/July27th9.jpg)
Seat cut , I'd only cut out a 1 1/2" deep birds mouth on a 2x4 if you go to a 3 1/2" bottom seat cut it leaves to little 2x4 left to get a strong enought rafter tail .
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/July27th10.jpg)
Step off :::: 4 steps , IF your building is 8 feet wide , 1/2 the run , remember to figure in your wall sheathing , IF it's up high enought to engage the birds mouth plumb cut.
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/July27th11.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/July27th12.jpg)
Ok go lay it out ;)
Thanks PEG - that makes it easier.
Family function tomorrow - Will get to it Sunday...hopefully.
Thanks again
Chris
QuoteThanks PEG - that makes it easier.
Family function tomorrow - Will get to it Sunday...hopefully.
Thanks again
Chris
Your welcome , nice computer work BTW 8-)
G/L PEG
Great tutorial, PEG. It was even clear to me. :)
QuoteGreat tutorial, PEG. It was even clear to me. :)
You sure ? There's a test at Chris's place tomorrow ;) Well maybe depends on if Chris can free up the time ;)
You bringing the beer? Yup -- I'm pretty sure. :-?
Looks like I will need to make a lumber run for 10 2x4x10 for rafter stock, 1 2x4x12 for ridge stock, plus anything else I can think of between now and then....
save yourself a couple of bills, and use a 2x6 ridge. Then use the $5 you saved to treat yourself to an italian sausage sandwich! ;) Ok, maybe they don't have those out there.
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save yourself a couple of bills, and use a 2x6 ridge.
Then use the $5 you saved to treat yourself to an italian sausage sandwich! ;)
HUh ?? I think he's planning on 2x4 ridge .
On that lil building I'd use a 1x6 it will be more than enought and save that few bucks .
Either way Chris a 5 1/2 " wide piece will be better than 3 1/2" , remember when you cut that 8/12 pitch cut the ridge cut will be "longer" on that long angle , so you'll get more purchase/ bearing with the 5 1/2" ridge board.
Ittalian samich ya say :-/ :-? not in Texa$$ no way ;D
So my shopping list would include:
1 1x2 window (gable-end window)
1 1x6x16 (ridge stock)
3 2x4x12 (gable-end stock)
10 2x4x10 (rafter stock)
44ft drip edge
134ft 3' tar paper (for roof and structure wrap)
1 box tar paper fasteners
4 4x8 3/8" or 7/16" plywood panels (roof sheathing)
QuoteLooks like I will need to make a lumber run for 10 2x4x10 for rafter stock, 1 2x4x12 for ridge stock, plus anything else I can think of between now and then....
Righti-o, misread it to say 2x12. Could only think of one reason use, but didn't seem very logical. Our house in OR, was built in 1927, and had no ridge at all, just mitered rafters nailed together, braced laterally by the skip sheeting. Ah the days of nice, OLD growth fir huh. A friend of ours had a house in TN, that was framed with red heart pine. Another friend, has a friend in upstate NY with his own sawmill. Supposedly, this guy has framed multiple houses with oak studs! Sorry for the thread drift.
Drift is good-- I have always wondered about people using hardwood to build with. :)
Timber framers do it all the time . Hickory , R. Oak , old days Chestnut was a used timber frame barn wood .
And Chris your really asking about framing for a roof structure , not roofing that would really be comp., metal , wood shingles / shakes etc .
But we got yer point / question and we are a drifty bunch ;D
Makes me wanna frame with driftwood. :)
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Makes me wanna frame with driftwood. :)
Yer just drifty is all ;D Most of it's half rotten.
But ... that means it's half good. :)
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But ... that means it's half good. :)
Such optimism ::) It would be half arsed as well eh ;D
OK. here is my test rafter run:
All my materials:
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters1.jpg)
Drawing ridge plumb line and marking end of first step
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters2.jpg)
Marking end of second step:
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters3.jpg)
After all 4 steps have been marked - used felt BLACK pen to make them camera friendly
Here's Step 1 (with ridge reduction in BLUE pen):
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters4.jpg)
Step 2:
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters5.jpg)
Step 3:
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters6.jpg)
Step 4 with seat cut marked:
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters8.jpg)
Seat cut with offset to take into consideration sheathing:
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters9.jpg)
So, how did i do ? :-[
Looks good cut two , do NOT reduce for the ridge yet, try the pair at both ends , the cuts should line up all around , ridge / seat cut bottom and the birds mouth wall connection point. Adjust or ask IF it doesn't look right.
When you cut the birds mouth , DO NOT "cut past" use a hand saw / jig saw to finish the cuts so the piece falls out.
G/L PEG
Chris,
You're sly - using that old rafting square makes it look like you have been doing this forever ;) . I do the same thing by carrying my father-in-laws toolbox. He was a roughneck at one time.
-Mark
QuoteChris,
You're sly - using that old rafting square makes it look like you have been doing this forever ;) . I do the same thing by carrying my father-in-laws toolbox. He was a roughneck at one time.
-Mark
That plastic speed square kinda tells the rest of the storey ::) ;D
So you cutum yet?? Tap, tap, tap , waiting :-/ :-/ Get a move on lad, those girls will be in college bafore yer finished ;D
Ahhh --- grasshopper, ---the master becomes impatient. ;D
Trying to get my hands on a jig saw.....
Any straight saw will work -- even --- gasp --- a hand saw. You know -- one of the old ones without an electric cord attached. :)
PEG just doesn't want you to over cut with a circular saw to get the cutout to break off and weaken your rafter.
The PC reciprocating saw you posted a picture of the other day could be used to finish the cut straight without over cutting.
QuoteThe PC reciprocating saw you posted a picture of the other day could be used to finish the cut straight without over cutting.
Ugh! Even though sawz-all made short work of trimming the Fiber Brace - its a bear to keep straight - my guess is because the blade on it is flimsy. I don't know if they make rigid blades for it - but the blade I was using wanted to jump all over the place.
QuoteEven though sawz-all made short work of trimming the Fiber Brace - its a bear to keep straight - my guess is because the blade on it is flimsy. I don't know if they make rigid blades for it - but the blade I was using wanted to jump all over the place.
Just use it to finish off the cut. Do the main work with the circular saw... just cut UP TO the end of cut line. Then switch.
They make many very heavy blades for the PC including demolition blades.
Keep the shoe tight against your work to prevent the jumping. Also a wider heavy blade with fairly coarse teeth will help. They make some very good wood cutting ones.
I will try first with circular saw and then fine tune with hand saw. Its a test piece of wood anyways - so nothing lost if i mess it up.
I don't know if you could do this safely with your one test piece (maybe with some extra scrap?), but I was thinking of gang cutting mine with the circular saw at an angle. Sort of like PEG did with the ledger here
http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144724922/0#0
Of course no need to clean anything up since the two cuts will meet. Set the depth a little shallow and finish with the handsaw.
I had even considered using my tablesaw - which is easier to get a precise angle on.
Any thoughts?
Larry Haun a " some what " noted author and builder who started out in the 1950's , one of his technics was / is, ( Larry's about 80 now , last I read about him he's still doing some building) , that type of gang cutting for the birds mouth , he or some one like him also developed a over sized saw blade set up of a worm drive saw to take a blade large enought to cut the ridge / tail cuts as well . So once "racked and stracked" all the rafters could be cut essentailly at once.
IMO it's way more work than it's worth and errors , clumitive / due to material thickness, crown , bows etc would be exeserabated.
When I cut rafters I pick a nice straight / light / true one for my pattern , I [highlight]screw on[/highlight] two engagement cleats that are about 1/2" x 2 1/2"x 6" , these engagement cleat's are attached about 6" from the peak cut and the other what would be right above the birds mouth, they stick down 1" to engage the rafter your about to mark .
Use screws , nails can and will loosen up and you[highlight] won't notice [/highlight]that till you've cut " how many" :'( bad rafters >:(
I stack a bunch ( as many as you saw horses will hold safely) and I leave a space between each stack so that cleats can fit in ( about 2" between stacks , one person has the ridge one the birds mouth end , work together to move and mark each rafter on the pile , then cut each rafter , when cuttin a whole house it is wise to have the same person cut the same "end" of each rafter , in theroy you could swap ends , BUT theroy and reality seldom match , and neither will your cuts , so like I said the same person should cut the same cut things sould fit / look / go better that way.
One person pulls a opposite stacked rafter , start on different / oppisite sides of the rafter stack , the ridge cut person should always finish firts as the birds mouth end has two cuts , well four cuts really start the cuts with the skilsaw stopping so you don't cut past then change to a handsaw / jigsaw to complete the cuts .
I rarely cut the rafter tail before the rafters are installed , I much perfer to get them all up , then snap a line form end to end and cut the tails that way , again in theroy percutting the tails should work , I have found it rarely does . I like my soffits straight .
Cuuting the birds mouth on a tablesaw is , well, :-[ nuts :-/ How would you index it ? How would you guide a 20 foot long 2 x12 cross ways over a tablesaw table ?? Ok even a 8 foot or so one ;D the rafter crown would fight you as would the lenght / weight etc .
And we're not building a piano here , that's pretty obvious by the pictures Chris is taking , ;D ;D
So Chris ya gottum cut yet???????????????????
Thanks for linking my other thread , I some times wonder if all this effort of formatting and typing all this stuff is worth it / if it ever gets read :-[ :( :'(
But I guess it does :)
Get a move on Chris , ya can't cut rafters sitting at a computer ;)
G/L PEG
That's my problem, PEG. I spend too much time sitting at the computer and not enough time actually going out and doing something. :-/ :'(
I did it again (another rookie mistake)....(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/duhhh.gif)
Background: My plan was to get 10 2x4x10 rafter stock for all 20 rafters. A couple of days ago, I had cut all of my stock in half so I would have 20 5ft pieces of wood, ready to make rafters out of them.
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters10.jpg)
Lesson learned: Work out ALL the math first.
At 8/12 slope - that comes out to about 14.5" per step. Multiply that by run (4 ft) = 58" (https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/duhhh.gif)
The second rafter is at 7/12 slope. At 13.89" per step x run (4 ft) = 55.5"
You can see Red at the back door going to momma to tattle on me....
Hummm ,
[size=72] DOH [/size]
Seems to fit here ;D
So, moving on, I know that I need to do two things:
1. Mark the rafter intersections with the ridge board
2. Raise ridge board
Two questions:
Do I mark the second rafter at 15 3/4" like i did for the second stud for the wall framing?
What is the best method for determining the ridge board height?
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Two questions:
Do I mark the second rafter at 15 3/4" like i did for the second stud for the wall framing?
What is the best method for determining the ridge board height?
#1: Depends , any rake over hangs ?? If so how wide , and what materials will make up said overhang?
If no overhang/ eave , lay it out like the walls either 15 1/4" to it or 16 3/4" to the far side ,
we been over this before , learn, adapt , add one lesson to another ::)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/April6th5.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/April6th6.jpg)
#2: It will be where the two rafters meet , remember to reduce for 1/2 the thickness of your ridge board , you said you where getting 1x6 , you layed out for (what appears to be ) a 2x ridge , 1/2 of 3/4" is 3/8" , so what are you doing ?
Not so easy when your the one doing it , as it would appear to be when your just watching is it?
We ended up getting a 2x6x12 - The 1x6's were not very straight - and those I could find in 12 foot lengths were all PT.
QuoteWe ended up getting a 2x6x12 - The 1x6's were not very straight - and those I could find in 12 foot lengths were all PT.
Texas , ::) still shopin a Home Despot / Blowes ;D
Thanks for your guidance-
Wagner's "House Framing" does not specifically exemplify roofing a structure. His explanation of marking the ridge board is very generic. Also, The explanation on determining ridge board height is a bit short because do does not go through an actual example.
Again - I appreciate everybody's time/patience.
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What is the best method for determining the ridge board height?
I have no idea what the best method is. I used sketchup and measured it. Since I am still on wall #2 I can't tell you if it will work ;)
QuoteQuote
What is the best method for determining the ridge board height?
I have no idea what the best method is. I used sketchup and measured it. Since I am still on wall #2 I can't tell you if it will work ;)
look forward to hear back on your outcome. Wagner suggests doing the math.
PEG's guidance is "do NOT reduce for the ridge yet, try the pair at both ends , the cuts should line up all around , ridge / seat cut bottom and the birds mouth wall connection point. Adjust or ask IF it doesn't look right. "
So, that's what I am going to do - build 4 rafters using my 5ft stock (still mad at myself for doing that - I should have used 12 footers to split in half).
Put two up and one end and two on the other.
Go on from there....I just need to decide what slope I want - 8/12 with basically forced clipped eaves or 7/12 with some overhang. Other difference will be about 4 inches of height.
Quote...I just need to decide what slope I want - 8/12 with basically forced clipped eaves or 7/12 with some overhang. Other difference will be about 4 inches of height.
Is there going to be a loft? A loft begs for a steeper pitch.
With NO loft in my plans I base my choice of roof pitch on what I'm
comfortable working on. That depends on the roofing material. Asphalt shingles supply a lot more grip than the metal roofing I want for the cabin. So my gazebo ended up with a 7:12 pitch and the cabin will likely have a 5:12 or maybe a 4:12 like my house. :-/
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters11.jpg)
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters14.jpg)
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters12.jpg)
(https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/y0ungins/Building/Playhouse/Roof/Roof-Rafters13.jpg)
Ya so is there a question? Those rafter tails are a lil short and I said to cut two rafters , one pair and try that same pair on both ends , not to cut 2 pr. 4 each rafters ::)
But ya they appear to be OK , not great but OK the fits / cuts .
Your worry about the ridge and it's height is some what misplaced . Unless your up against some local ordinance for height restrictions , does it matter?
You can cut the post it seems your intending to put under the ridge brd after all the rafters are up , so you can work the ridge / rafters combos together for a good fit, if it';s 3/8", 1/2" , etc higher or lower than the calcuations say it "should be " what the big deal? Your hung up on manusha !
There's whats refered to as the measuring line on a rafter , your book should cover that, that measuring line , [highlight]generally [/highlight]is considered the top of the birds mouth . So the exact top of the rafter and ridge are "some what" driven by the added height . So don't get fixsated by any exact #'s you may "think" are important.
In other words don't get frozen / stop building because some # is "off", if it fits and you step back and the ridge isn't way outta wack / not level to your eye,,,,,,,,,,,, bend down and sign the ridge thru to another house eave or ridge line , if they sort of follow each other move on/ keep building . 8-)
OK pep talk is over get back at it ;)
Thanks for the guidance.