I'm about to expose even more of my ignorance here, so please bear (bare?) with me.
Can a DIY cabin builder buy his/her own blank SIPs and cut the openings/assemble them? From looking at tutorials, it doesn't seem like rocket science.
For a 24 x 32 structure with 10' sidewalls, using 5-5/8's SIPs (from one manufacturer's site) I get a raw cost of about $4600 for the SIPs. By the time you factor in sheathing, studs, insulation on a conventional wall, isn't this about a wash?
You can go with standard trusses with SIPs or even a SIP roof.
I suppose the building and erecting of the cabin's side walls is an inexpensive and straight-forward task, perhaps making this not as much of a slam dunk as it seems to me.
What am I missing (other than a lot of sense)? You can get a 24' x 8' x 6" OSB/OSB SIP for $624. That's one side of a builder's cottage right there, isn't it? I get about $500 in wood, exterior sheathing, and insulation for the same stick-built 6" wall...just roughly.
Anyway, would like to learn more.
This place sells the kits with the tools, perhaps from the website you can determine what kind of task it would be to cut your own openings...
http://www.valubuild.com/kits.html
We too are looking into using SIPS and would love to hear from anyone else that has had experience with this kind of construction.
l'm interested in SIP also. l had a look at panelconcepts.com. the panels have an interior knotty pine finish and the exterior finish looks like logs. ls it to nice to be good? richard
If you need to get a building permit I would suggest you let the panel company engineer the structure as each SIPS manufacturer has its own system and structural language that neither a standard builder or the building inspector will be familiar with.
One of the big advantages of the system is the pre-engineered panels and the boom truck assembly by the supplier. That is not the big part of the expense (that's in the materials of the panels).
If you really want to do an easy to build and engineer system for the less experienced builder, then use standard platform framing with perhaps "the poor man's SIP" details from the Universal Cottage plans. It will be easier and less expensive that DIY SIPS
Stud framing was invented especially for inexperienced builders who could build inexpensively and quickly with small crews.
Too bad familiarity breeds contempt.
If you can handle the price, just let the SIPS company engineer and build the shell and then turn it over to you. Just make sure you understand how to do all the non-standard things like pull wire and do plumbing in the walls since you will probably have to do this yourself or train the local subs.
Hm. I'm not down on stud framing, and know next to nothing about SIPs. However, it seems (seemed?) like an interesting avenue for exploration.
If the goal is to be dried in and insulated quickly, and you're going to pay a crew anyway, I think it has to be considered, evn if it's eventually dismissed.
I was probably rash in asking about a DIY angle, but I guess you never know until you ask.
Wasn't that famous cabin from Woman's Day or Family Circle--small, built at home and then trucked to the site, sold zillions of inexpensive plans (I had them, lost in the fire, I'm afraid) written up extensively in Tiny Houses (book not web site--my copy's up at the mini-storage) built of some kind of homemade SIPS (long before the term was invented)?
My recollection was that the principal building block was two sheets of plywood with 2x2 and insulation between them. Don't quite remember how they put them together.
Hope I didn't sound too harsh to anyone. SIPs is a reasonable material and very energy efficient. I do feel that for getting a shell up it is a good choice, but probably best assembled by the factory trained crew.
I do know folks who have worked with local help and found that while it cost more, it wasn't rocket science. Good builders are inventive. The guys on the This Old House program built a SIPS house and by the end of the program had invented a way to run wiring without routing out the interior OSB. I'd never seen that before.
You could build your own sandwich panels as mentioned in the Family Circle project by Jeff Milstein. Trouble is, these methods will not meet local energy code expectations anymore (these were typically an R-5 to R-10 wall).
Does a SIP hybred make any sense?
i'm thinking of a SIP roof over a conventional frame. Seems to me that it would save money over a conventional roof - pre-insulated (and, I believe to a higher R rating than one can easily get for conventional - correct me if I'm wrong) and lifted into place. Maximizes the "under the roof" space and reduces time people spend aloft doing insulating and etc.
Also, if there are any angles to the roof like dormers and the like, it makes faster work of that too?
Does this make sense?
This would be my personal choice for the highest use of SIP panels - where you wanted a well insulated cathedral ceiling and didn't need a lot of the plumbing, wiring and other things that want to happen in walls.
I 've heard many stories where SIP dormers save a lot of time and money since they can get put on similar to a modular with a crane.
hello, im john and new to forum. i am very much consdiering sips cabin
when we leave florida.
sip blanks would be easy to cut. layout opening carefully drill pilot hole
cut with tiger saw.
as far as wiring any can be ordered with wirning chases already bored.i would make sure to order from all one sorce and sure check them at install for mating correctly.
i really thinks sips are the way to go and ill sure report how it goes for us with the planned micro house. if we can get it done anyone can. my gal and i are both differently abled but both frugal minded
which is better defined as poor :)
much thanks for allowing us on the forum and highest regards to you all. john
Welcome John, please keep us updated. The Tiger saw - Porter Cable-? I think that is the one I have but I got the more expensive model that the head swivels 180 degrees and blade rotates 360 degrees
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000ASDMK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
This is in my opinion the best ever sawzall type saw. Many times more versatile than a straight one and well worth the extra money.
yes sir! zowie! that is one fine unit right there for sure. i like porter cable a lot
i have some of their air tools also and the little 4 or 4.25 worm drive trim saw plus the straight version of the one you show.
man thats nice. but to stay on topic(not my nature) i do think one could cut sips just fine with any sawzall type machine. trick me thinks is cut it all at once. taking ones time and measuring 3 times before cutting once yes? this is the method this semi blind guy uses. oh and always wear ones face shield always! :)
glad to be here and type at you all...
What a nice phrase--"type at us all!"
i in no way meant to offend if i have. i run a screen reader and voice to text proggie for forums and bbs's as they all make text way to small for me to see ,
i am very happy to be in here to share and learn . being slightly off the wall i have quite a few wacky sayings and terms i use to communicate as best as i can. so please accept my humble apology if i have indeed offended by my less than eloquent statement.
with highest regards, john
In SD there is a local company that makes SIP's. This co. does the Lions share of the busines around here. A local Timberframer uses them pretty exclusively. There is also a contractor who does most all of their assembling. This avoids most of the nightmares with how and what to do.
However, they are more expensive for sure. They have had some bad experiences with moisture and rot. Mostly poor flashing and caulking, drainage issues with under qualified assemblers.
A friend of mine had them do a small 1000 sq' home and it's nice. Nicer? ?????
It was fast and much nicer then a traditional modular.
Welcome John:
Good to have you typing at us, I'm sure no one was offended by that in the least.
Interesting setup using voice to text for your forum work. Does the program read the posting to you and then you type a response or can it also convert your voice into text?
As for SIPS customization (and I don't know the answer to this) I wonder how much chopping away of panels you can do on site before you have compromised the structural integrity?
I know in the one SIPS house I worked on we needed to freeze the design before the panels were cut. Each opening was blocked out in the panel so that the opening had the equivalent of a structural header and king studs. I assume (at least for the larger openings) you would have to gouge out for and install these studs and headers if you were making major structural modifications.
No worries, John -- If many were easily offended here I'd probably be here by myself. :-/
What programs do you use - is voice decent or the Microsoft machine voices? Typing back at you -Glenn
I think Amanda liked your phrase actually.
Please feel free to join in with me and my weirdness. I feel it keeps people on their toes - like -share the paranoia. ;D
well isure thank you as i meant no harm or offense. i use quirky freeware programs. seem everything is geared toward billy and his warez. i personally loathe anything ms and run as much as i can thats not feeding the theif.
i hope to make friends with amanda as she lives where i want to go and i now nothing about tennessee other than i think i need to be there yesterday. :)
this is nice board and i will be honored to contribute my "possum" methods. i follow the lifestyle set by my queen dolly freed in possum living. making do reuse
recycle scrounge grow your own self reliance frugalityand such. its not for everybody but it has perks too. its a good thing too as i got hurt 4 years back and no-one or no entity has assisted me. blind but not blind enough ssi says after 34 years of paying into the sys. but yet my neighbor is 22 and she is depressed and get 1k per month and worked 2 years. gotta love it
although my meesage board got hacked and then overrun by the party poker crowd i still have a blindboy attempy at a site @ ottermoon.com with some make-do's i use. nothing fancy but thats possum living.
ok back to topic (well maybe)
that is great question to surely consider when we would have a sip blank and needed to cut out for an added window.
there has to be a gouge type hot tool to remove foam so one could place bracing into the sip for the window??
an to think of it the tool sized to the sip
thickness
A bit different but my cousin uses a chainsaw with a tip gaurd for putting channels etc into ICF block.
You scoop out the foam with a hot knife like this one... buy or make your own using ni-chrome wire.
(http://www.lhbrandingirons.com/images/foam_scoop.gif)
You can also use a router but that makes a real mess.
I saw a solar home using organic SIP on TV today.
http://solar.colorado.edu/design/index.shtml
The SIP company is: http://www.biobased.net/
that depth guage would sure help to not remove too much material. well designed tool for sure :)
you might only use it once but it would sure make life easier. and who knows after using sips the first time , a person might very well build many fine structures from them.
Check Panel Pros (http://www.panelpros.com/index.html) for some pretty good SIPS information. They have a tools (http://www.panelpros.com/news/tot.html) section with photos.
see also nostiel.com I, too, am looking at SIPs since the R-value is so high, and also think it will save on labor to erect frame/shell, since I have no experience in DIY and will need to hire help/framers. I appreciate any feedback on SIPs.
hi befree , have you decided yet as to the size of your sip house? i really think sips make a diy house at least cottage/cabin doable for us
where might you be building? if its tennessee ill help you if you help me :)
we are wanting to be out of florida and heading somewhere in central tennessee.
info today about well and septic was good and not much more than here for costs. they have to go deeper up there but drill cost is less per foot on the well.
please keep us posted on your build and progress...
Hi All,
http://www.sipweb.com
Oops,
Don't think this forum likes tab keys.
I have been looking into SIPs for some time now and
there are several solutions to your various needs. I say that,
because it depends on many factors, like budget, whether you will need permits,
whether you are building the house by yourself with possibly only your spouse to help you.
Check out the SIP talk forum and read back thru the many pages. There is a wealth of info
there. Some of it is a little skewed, so you need to read a lot to weed out the basic truths
from it all.
That being said, I am probably going to build with SIPs with the aid of my wife.
My current plan is to use SIPS made with metal frames on either side of EPS foam.
The frames are only connected together with some screws so that there is minimal
thermal bridging. ***This is important ***
The reason for choosing this format, is because these panels are very light, and can be handled
by two people very easily. There are quite a few other plusses like easy gauging for wire.
I will be using 6061 T-6 al sheets on both sides for simplicity and fire rating requirements.
The trick here if this is the way you go is to use a product from 3M which is a VHB tape
Yes Tape, not screws or rivets. This stuff is just as strong and doesn't cause the metal to buckle
when it gets hot and expands. The other reason for using the tape is that it isolates the aluminum
from the steel. ***Very Important ***
Remember, Google is your friend. Search the net and look up the 3M VHB product and you will find an article that describes its use in making horse trailers and another putting aluminum decorative panels
in disney land and major airports, and the sides of high rises.
That is all for now, gotta go.
Bruce
I don't know about all SIPs manus., but some come with Romex holes already routed. I intend to use SIPs for my DIY house. You can do anything with a little knowledge and a good complement of tools.